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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Anaya (00:15.135)
iGamingDaily returns from SPC's Casino Beat Summit in Malta to the unexpected news that Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has declared a general election on the 4th July. Momentum towards a settlement of the industry's regulatory affairs has been growing, but has the gambling review now been stalled as government and the civil service shut down its engine?
So I'm just gonna go from the top again.
Anaya (00:49.727)
iGaming Daily returns from SBC's Casino Beach Summit in Malta to the unexpected news that Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has declared a general election on the 4th July. Momentum towards a settlement of the industry's regulatory affairs had been growing, but has the Gambling Review now been stalled as the government and civil service shut down to abide by pre -election rules? Will a six -week election campaign derail the Gambling Review's outstanding settlements?
related to the affordability checks pilot program, RET and LEVI, and the changes needed to modernised UK land -based gambling. Today, we'll examine the industry reaction to Rishi's kamikaze call at the most sensitive of times for all UK gambling stakeholders. I'm Martin Elliott and welcome to this latest edition of iGaming Daily, brought to you in partnership with OptiMove, the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market.
As a special offer OptiMove is offering new clients a free first month. For more information and to claim that free month go to optimove .com forward slash SBC. Joining me today are SBC's content director Ted Menmure and payment expert editor Ted Ormclay. I know both of you are very much politics nerds so we'll be getting quite excited about the prospect of six weeks of
the whole country being slightly obsessed by politics. But before we get into that, it's been a while since we've done this Ted, down there in London. How are you? What have you been up to in the last couple of weeks?
teddy (02:30.167)
Fine, fine. Yes, I was surprised by last week's general election call and I think kind of the news cycle is now starting to run in terms of what they're going to campaign on. So it's going to be a fun, fun six weeks ahead of us.
Anaya (02:54.687)
Yeah, it's very pleasing to see that one of Ed Davey's stunts has already gone wrong today. So that was very enjoyable.
teddy (02:56.363)
Yes.
teddy (03:01.483)
I'm all about conscription guys.
Anaya (03:04.159)
Yeah. Well, I'm going to come out in favour of that because I'm clearly too old to go into the army. So, yeah, good idea in my book. And what about you, Ted? How did you, how did you react to that news that not only have Nottingham Forest stayed up, but we might be getting a change of government? Yeah, I mean, to, yeah, to two pretty big milestones in the same week. I'm sure the whole country was absolutely delighted by both, you know.
given the colossal following Nottingham Forest has. Yeah, I mean, it came as a bit of a, in one sense it came as a bit of a surprise because I think we were expecting an election to get called in October. When I say a bit of a surprise, I of course mean the election, not Nottingham Forest survival. We all know that was always a given. But yeah, obviously for a while we'd been getting the impression that they were gonna call one for October. But then of course we had that, some positive economic news, didn't we? So, and the...
news that inflation had fallen quite significantly as well. So I think given that context, it's not too unsurprising. It seems like they're banking on some positive news. But yeah, it should be a pretty hectic couple of weeks ahead, a few weeks ahead even. Yeah, something for us all to look forward to. Yeah, absolutely. And how much did you enjoy the metaphor laden sight of Rishi delivering the news in the pouring rain outside Downing Street?
I know it did seem like something from, you know, a Netflix documentary. It's going to get made in a couple of years time, didn't it? About, yeah, with, I know they were, so someone was playing Labors, New Labors anthem in the background, weren't they as well, to try and have a bit of a dig at them. But yeah, I could see it being used again in a few years time on like a Netflix or Channel 4 documentary with like Hurt by Johnny Cash playing in the background, like what they did with Theresa May a few years back. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess,
teddy (04:59.787)
Peace.
Anaya (05:01.823)
It's difficult to know what to do when the weather goes against you. As Steve McLaren found out during his final game as England manager, standing on the touchline with an umbrella above you gets you christened the Wally with the Broly when things go wrong.
teddy (05:13.515)
Yeah, I mean, he did not look a happy guy, leaving that podium. But then the other thing is just how quickly everything kind of dismantled after his election call, which got called, it got branded kind of a kamikaze play by him. And, you know, reading the news reports after, they said like he literally threw a hand grenade at his cabinet. Then on the weekend,
Anaya (05:17.695)
No.
teddy (05:43.595)
on Saturday they said that 80 ATMPs are going to resign after the elections are done. So this is going to be... He's playing everything Rishi. He's gambling everything on this election call. And I think it's caught every department by surprise. And also kind of the functions of how...
government applications are going to run in the summer. It's really, really, it's not really the dumb thing to call for a summer election, right, especially like the July time, and especially when he was preparing all the government to go out in autumn. So I think it's going to be an adjustment period for all functions of government.
Anaya (06:35.071)
Yeah, I think as well he's not given any consideration to his own colleagues in parliament, many of whom have narrow majorities in their seats and know they're going to be losing them. At least when they thought it was going to be October, November, they've got time to actually be looking for another job and sorting out the next step of their lives so that some of these guys are going to find themselves come July the 5th with nothing to do.
teddy (07:01.643)
Yeah. But he never, one thing he didn't do in his speeches, he never really gonna explain why he's doing the summer call. Because yes, you can point out those five pledges, but those got kind of thrown out the window pretty much, pretty much within 24 hours. Yeah.
Anaya (07:04.575)
A nice job, but nothing to do.
Anaya (07:25.823)
Yeah, it's really strange. I mean, part of it, I think, is that every time Sweller Bravaman or somebody from that wing of the party says something, it becomes more obvious they're divided as we go along. That situation is getting worse and worse to the point where he barely has a parliamentary, a working parliamentary majority because the far right, sorry, not the far right, the right of his party doesn't support him at all.
And then I think there's a bit of opportunism as well, but reform hasn't selected its candidates. That's quite a long process to get through and have them all in place in every constituency in the country in time to get on the ballot paper. So I think you might be trying to wrong -foot Farage's party a little bit as well. But I mean, I can't help thinking. I don't know about you, Ted, but whatever the reason for it, the outcome is going to be the same at the end.
Yeah, I mean, if I would, I would always add, I guess that given the given some recent developments over the past few years, you can't always 100 % trust opinion polls. Obviously, we saw with Brexit and Donald Trump's election that the opinion polls don't always get things right, but they've consistently I mean, I don't think I've seen one in months that hasn't had Labour significantly ahead and some of them are putting them ahead by more than 20 to 25 points. So, yeah, it does. Like you say, regardless of whatever reason he's called it.
Whether it's because of the positive news about the economy and inflation whether it's because of the timing of China's yeah get one over reform and some of the more right -wing elements Regardless, it does look it's going to be a wipeout in favor of Kestam as Labour Party. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. So Perhaps as this is a gambling industry podcast we should maybe Ground it a little. Instead of I've just got my long list of election issues I wanted I would love to discuss but
teddy (09:16.171)
You
Anaya (09:23.263)
probably aren't that relevant for this podcast. But what's the reaction been to within the industry? What have you been hearing?
teddy (09:32.959)
Again, this comes out of very sensitive time for the industry and especially now that kind of we've gone through kind of the process of a three -year review and we're coming up to the key kind of technical area of gambling in the future of UK gambling laws in terms of affordability checks, stake limits and the action plan.
to modernize UK gambling venues, right? So the wheel's been placed in motion, right? And I think the last thing the industry needed was an election call because again, I think the concern here is how does the industry play out with what's going on in parliament and especially...
with a period, a six week period in a key testing phase, right? But how does that kind of slow down the processes of the government in applying new laws and in getting to the settlements? So that is kind of the gray area for gambling now.
Anaya (10:38.623)
And what about on your beat, Ted, has been much talk within sort of FinTech and payment sector? Because obviously one of the things we're, one of the stages we're at now in the sort of gambling industry review is very much about affordability and so on. I've not seen many reactions immediately. I mean, we were getting some feedback coming in after the inflation and the inflation went down and when the economy grew slightly.
Regarding the election, I'm not seeing anything immediately yet. I think as it goes by though, I mean, both parties have mapped out fintech policies. The government, the Conservative government have been very vocal in wanting to see the UK become a bit of a hub for digital assets, cryptocurrencies, sort of blockchain technology. They've also been putting funding into artificial intelligence. I think Jeremy Hunt announced that in the spring budget, not the spring budget, the autumn budget last year.
and reiterated it in the spring budget. They're quite keen to see development of open banking. The Labour Party is also, this is an area I think in terms of like the Venn diagram of policies and ideologies, Labour and Conservatives seem to be falling on a bit is open banking, are both quite keen to see that develop further. I think they're also, they also recognise in how much of a role AI.
startups and so on are playing in the UK fintech scene and the importance of that to the economy. Although I think labour are probably going to be, might have a bit more of some concern, internal concern about what AI could mean for employment. And as far as cryptocurrencies go, I'd imagine they're definitely not as keen on that sort of side of things as the conservatives are in terms of fostering that. But yeah, we'll certainly see those develop more.
as for which party the, the sex would prefer. I mean, we've seen today, didn't some news come out today that businesses are kind of moving more towards labor at the moment. Yeah. According to labor. Yeah. Yeah. There's a letter organized by labor that's for people outside the UK. It's published in the times today. That's been signed by 120 people who are styled as business leaders.
teddy (12:38.891)
According to Labour.
Anaya (12:57.823)
But as always with these letters, same as the Conservative one a few years ago, they're maybe not quite the leaders the political parties would have you believe.
teddy (13:09.515)
But I think yes, look, one of the things to highlight is we're going to have a six week election campaign. And okay, one thing that the UK is quite good at is that it is a steady government and it doesn't, you know, in other countries you'd have a whole change of the civil service. That would be applicable to the US election, right? Where you've got to change the complete functions of government. In the UK it kind of sticks along. However, I think...
A lot of what's been said in the last five days, it's people's kind of view of the application of how the government will apply changes to what is amendments to a generational law and whether they're applying.
whether they are applied by primary legislation or secondary legislation. Now, primary legislation is going to require a lot more work and a lot more statutes than secondary legislation. But again, I've been kind of reviewing everything that's been written by DCMS, by the UK Gammon Commission. There's no kind of formal kind of underlying of this is how we're going to implement the law come the end of the year.
And I think that's what's confusing a lot of people when they're trying to kind of interpret what's going on with the general election and its impact on the UK gambling review.
Anaya (14:30.687)
Yeah, I think that's right. Because there's every chance a lot of the individual elements could just go through as statutory legislation. So no need for a vote, no need for a new law as such. But we'll see. I know when something has been rumbling on for as long as this has, there's almost politicians like the big moment to say, we have passed this, we have made this change, even though it's
might not legally be necessary to do it like that. And we'll see whether Labour wants to, sorry, I know we're not meant to assume, in the media now that the election result is a foregone conclusion. But we'll see whether our potential next prime minister, Sir Keir Starmer, as we should call him, if that's what he wants to do. And so, where?
teddy (15:08.555)
You
Anaya (15:29.023)
I'm just thinking where to go to next because there really is a lot of uncertainty about this. I mean, do we know, for example, where the Labour Party sits on this? Is there a view very different to the current government, the outgoing government's view? I think the Gambler Net Review's conclusions do have quite broad bipartisan support.
In my opinion, from what we saw during the run -up to the... I mean, we've already pointed out the review took a long while. It was about two and a half years all in all from when it got announced till the white paper was published last April. We saw a lot of opinions shared across the parties, particularly in the all -party parliamentary group on gambling -related harm, which is obviously very active in scrutinising the developing legislation and making its opinions known. I mean, let's say if we select...
three politicians from across the spectrum. You've got, you had, what was it, Ian Duncan Smith is a very, very vocal proponent of gambling reform. You've then got Carolyn Harris, obviously chairs the APBG. And then Ron, she's from Labour, Ian Duncan Smith is some of the Conservatives. And you've also got, is it Ronnie Cohen from the Scottish National Party has been quite a vocal proponent of reform as well. So I think that goes, I think that really shows where that,
I think that shows that people from across the political spectrum and across the UK's parliamentary landscape do seem to have some fairly broad opinions when it comes to this. It does seem to be a cross -party issue because those people you named there are broadly in favour of major, major reforms. But you'll also find in parliament currently a broad spectrum of MPs who are
quite supportive of the industry and the employment opportunities it creates and the tax revenue it brings in and not least the, you know, the sort of the entertainment and the fact that gambling is a well -established part of British working -class culture. Yeah, I think, yeah, to build on kind of what I've said and what you just said, Martin, I think it's also important to note that, let's say again, if I want to talk about different politicians, you've of course got Philip Davies, isn't it? And Esther McVeigh, both quite, quite sort of... Aren't they married?
Anaya (17:54.335)
Yes, yes, the political power couple of Philip David and Esther McVeigh, yeah. They were both been supporters of the industry in Parliament and then both members of the Conservative Party and then of course the long -time leader of the British, the betting and gaming council for a while was former Labour MP Michael Dugher. So again, that goes to show you that the industry does still have its supporters across both sides of Parliament as well.
teddy (17:54.443)
Good.
Right.
teddy (18:23.979)
gambling, bringing people together. No, I mean, I think here what we have to look at is what segments of the gambling review can get interrupted by an election.
and by a change in government and not necessarily the outcome, but the actual procedure to get there. So as we know, look, in September slot, state limits are coming through, right? But all of a sudden you got a campaign coming through, you got a campaign playing out. Is that going to interrupt the September date? Will it get pushed back? We're now entering the test pilot on affordability checks.
that is meant to come into force or into live environment from August. Will that be interrupted by the general election? And also the pledge to kind of modernize UK gambling, UK laws for gambling venues, especially in terms of the capacity for the slot machines. Will that pledge carry on through to the end of the year? We don't know. So again, it's...
It's, I'm very much on the boat that this was the last thing the gambling industry needed in a year of settlement was to be played out against the general election backdrop. And it doesn't bring down kind of any anxieties for the industry.
Anaya (20:04.223)
Sure. So we're just about to wrap up. So one last question for you. Do you think what we're seeing here, the result of the election for the gambling industry will just be reform delayed or do we think reform derailed? I'd say delayed, yeah. I think the proposals of the white paper that we've got and that the UKGC and the CMS have been consulting on will...
eventually come into effect. I think it's just the election is going to hold that up because of the delay in legislative and regulatory process that's going to result from that. Sure. And Tad, are you still confident it's sort of on track, but just a bit further down the line?
teddy (20:42.347)
teddy (20:47.403)
I think again, you gotta break this down in terms of segments. I think slots and stakes should be okay for September. I think affordability checks, we're gonna see how it plays out. But I wouldn't bet on it for August. I think both parties are committed to land -based reforms and land -based modernization. So that should stay stable. The big ones, the rent levy.
I think that it carries so much divisions within what's being processed. And again, I think there also might be a return to analyzing the big one, which is the UK gambling and advertising and sponsorships. So those would be my two areas of where I think that might...
be kind of readjusted or refitted into a longer term schedule.
Anaya (21:47.135)
Yeah, I think just to follow up on what Ted said, I think I've said this on some podcasts in the past, I reckon, regardless of when the white paper forms come in, the debate around betting sponsorships and betting sports marketing in particular in the UK is not going to be going anywhere. That's going to continue for long after this white paper is concluded with. OK, well, great. Well, Ted, thank you. Thank you very much. And if you are...
pessimistic enough about this to think it is going to be carrying on for another 18 months or so. You'll be able to read all about it on SBC News, Insider Sport and Payment Expert. But thank you very much for listening and join us again tomorrow for another episode of iGaming Daily.