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Best Beginnings is the podcast for everyone working in or caring about the early years. Hosted by George Looker, CEO of Babyzone, each episode brings together leading researchers, clinicians, practitioners, policymakers and parents to explore the evidence, ideas and innovations shaping how we support children and families in the UK.
From infant mental health and attachment to workforce challenges and systems change, Best Beginnings goes beyond the headlines to have the conversations that matter most in early childhood.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Best Beginnings is brought to you by Babyzone, a national charity operating free, evidence-based family hubs across England for families with children aged 0–5.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:30:15
Unknown
Welcome to Best Beginnings, a podcast from Baby Zone where we talk to the people working hardest to give every child the best possible start in life. My guest today has shaped the bookshelves of a whole generation of small children. Camilla Reid has been writing, making and editing books for babies and toddlers for more than 30 years of a young child at home, you almost certainly own something that she's made from pip and posy to a lift the flat book that gets chewed, loved and read until they fall apart.
00:00:30:16 - 00:00:57:22
Unknown
Her books have been sold over 40 million copies around the world, and she's one of the most passionate voices we have on why reading with the very youngest children. She was the The Books Book Trust's first ever baby and toddler writer in residence. Her new book, I Am Ready for school, is out now, and it's all about the milestones that every family that we work with in our hubs is either excitedly counting down to, or, in some cases, dreading, that first day of school.
00:00:57:24 - 00:01:17:08
Unknown
Today's conversations about that milestone. But it's also about something more radical the idea that getting a child ready for school has far less to do with letters and numbers than we're told, but more to do with confidence, connection, and being read to school. Readiness tends to get spoken about with a note of fear and sometimes a finger pointed at parents.
00:01:17:10 - 00:01:33:19
Unknown
Camilla is here to take the fear out of it and make the case that the most powerful thing that any family can do, whatever their language, however they felt about their own days at school, is one of the simplest things. Share a book and let it be fun. Camilla, welcome to Best Beginnings. Thank you. It's lovely to be here.
00:01:33:19 - 00:01:50:23
Unknown
George, thank you so much for your time this afternoon. Really excited to talk to you. As I said in the instruction, you spent more than 30 years creating these books for the very youngest of children. What was it that drew you to that world of writing with babies and toddlers in mind? What pulled you to
00:01:51:03 - 00:02:23:21
Unknown
I came to it before I had children because I loved the I was working as an editor and a children's publisher, and I loved the I loved the books, the physical quality of the books. But as an editor, you can get really engaged in the creative process. So I really loved the fact that it gave me this opportunity to, to create, to come up with ideas and to to be involved in the commissioning of the art and to to really be quite hands on as a publisher in the creative process, to have a lot of agency in the creative process.
00:02:23:22 - 00:02:40:02
Unknown
And then I had my own children and I suddenly the whole thing sort of became even more heightened for me because I suddenly realized what an amazing thing happens when you read with a child. As I started to read with my own children,
00:02:40:02 - 00:03:09:24
Unknown
I realized what an amazing and powerful thing was happening between the two of us, sort of night after night. And it was only tiny, but we were doing things together. It was almost like when we read a book together. We were going on a journey, an adventure together. And when you go on a journey or an adventure with a child, like if you go to the zoo, for example, you go to the park or you go on holiday together, you share these memories and you have an experience which which bonds.
00:03:10:01 - 00:03:22:07
Unknown
When you find out about each each other and which forges the bonds of your relationship, where you discover what each other's sense of humor is, what each other enjoys or doesn't enjoy, what you're afraid of.
00:03:22:07 - 00:03:34:07
Unknown
And that's what was happening just in the pages of a book. So almost every night you could go on a tiny mini adventure with a child and forge these bonds just step by step.
00:03:34:07 - 00:03:36:15
Unknown
And I found that so interesting.
00:03:36:15 - 00:03:54:07
Unknown
I also discovered that there were books that were missing from the library bookshelves or the the bookshop shelves. And so I started to write them, and I sort of they were a lot about the emotions of children, of children, which I felt weren't really dealt with. And
00:03:54:10 - 00:03:58:05
Unknown
it really prompted me to come up with new ideas for them.
00:03:58:06 - 00:04:17:02
Unknown
I'd love to go deeper into that is talking about the emotions of children and their perhaps being a gap. Earlier in your career, what have you seen that's changed? Are there more books around that now or what other sorts of topics? Have you seen shifting over the course of the last three decades?
00:04:17:04 - 00:04:23:20
Unknown
World has changed quite significantly and dramatically, but maybe from a children's perspective even more so.
00:04:24:00 - 00:04:49:06
Unknown
How has your instinct had to shift, or how has your the way that you work had to shift and match that? Well, I mean, that's a very interesting question. A lot more publishers are thinking about the baby in toddler space when we start. I was also involved in starting up a new publishing company. I actually those books that I was just talking about, there was a series called Busy Bear and a series called Pip and Posy, which it's become now Pip and Posy.
00:04:49:06 - 00:05:01:15
Unknown
But I was taking those ideas to publishers. By that stage, I was freelance. I'd left my job, I was working as a freelance editor, and I was taking those books round to publishers, and I couldn't get them published.
00:05:01:15 - 00:05:09:04
Unknown
so in the end, I ended up doing a slightly radical thing, which was to join up with a previous boss of mine and start up a new publishing company.
00:05:09:04 - 00:05:27:00
Unknown
So we ended up starting up, and I ended up running and creating all the books on the publishing company. Was Nosy Crow, I should say. We ended up creating lots and lots of early years books in a way that I think quite a few people weren't doing in other publishing companies,
00:05:27:03 - 00:05:30:18
Unknown
I think it did open up the space and we started doing quite well with that.
00:05:30:18 - 00:05:35:07
Unknown
So I think there are a lot more really fantastic books out there.
00:05:35:10 - 00:05:56:11
Unknown
Have I seen it change? I think in some ways childhood is childhood and the same emotion. You need to deal with the same stuff year in, year out. Children need to explore the world. They need to find out the joy of the world. They need to see the they find their place in it.
00:05:56:11 - 00:06:24:04
Unknown
And so that is a constant. That's a universal, I think. But and there's always new ways of finding new books, of writing new books, lots of new books and a new book that we're going to talk about today. And as far as, you know, I'm ready for school, which is timely given we're coming to the end of academic year, a school year, and certainly in our experience across our hubs, we're going to be having lots of families who sadly be leaving our community.
00:06:24:04 - 00:06:47:21
Unknown
But going to reception from September onwards, I guess, you know, slight change from your usual readers with a older child facing a big day, what made you write about school readiness and and why now? Well, I mean, that's going back to what I was saying about the books that I wrote for my own children. Because I saw these gaps.
00:06:47:21 - 00:07:09:17
Unknown
I saw a gap for a book about school readiness that was that really, really specifically dealt with the idea of being ready for each stage. So the stage of going up to school, but also within a school day, being ready for the next phase of the day, if you see what I mean. So the book talks about at every point.
00:07:09:18 - 00:07:38:13
Unknown
Every time you turn the page, the child is ready to go and do the next thing, go and do the next thing. So I really wanted to do a book which was about school readiness, which was very much set in a UK school with recognizable school building, with school uniforms, a lot of school starting school books have an animal characters rather than human characters, and I really didn't want to do that.
00:07:38:13 - 00:07:43:05
Unknown
I wanted to show real human lots the diversity of human kids.
00:07:43:05 - 00:07:57:22
Unknown
So yeah, I thought that's why I wanted to do it, because I thought that it there wasn't quite the book that did that, so I thought I'd have a crack at it. It took me a while, to be honest. I've been thinking about it for probably about ten years.
00:07:57:24 - 00:08:15:24
Unknown
Yeah. So over the course of ten years, is there a specific worry from parents that you had in your mind as you were writing it, or a concern that you'd see neither from your own children or children that you've obviously encountered throughout your time as an as an author that made you feel this book really needs to exist.
00:08:16:00 - 00:08:32:17
Unknown
I was looking at from both sides, actually. I was looking at it from, well, all three from the parents point of view, from the child's point of view and from the teacher's point of view. So I will take the child as a child from the child's point of view. I was thinking about my own children and my own experience.
00:08:32:18 - 00:08:40:13
Unknown
Actually, I can still remember it going up, the excitement of going up to school, but also the apprehension and the sort of and the nervousness of it
00:08:40:13 - 00:08:54:17
Unknown
And so I was remembering that as a parent, you feel that for your child, perhaps even more so, you really want them to do well in school and you want them more than anything is to make friends.
00:08:54:19 - 00:09:14:07
Unknown
So that's such a huge thing. And then I have become really great friends with the teacher. I talked to lots of teachers and early years practitioners, but I am particularly good friends with the person who I dedicate the book to, Evie, who is the deputy head of my local school, primary school,
00:09:14:13 - 00:09:17:08
Unknown
we had long conversations about what?
00:09:17:09 - 00:09:43:01
Unknown
And she's a seasoned deputy head, so she's seen lots and lots of children go through the school. And she was and she talked about what she felt kids, the kids who flourish, what they the qualities that they had and the skills that they had, and as opposed to the ones that didn't flourish. So that was very much something I was weaving in all the time.
00:09:43:03 - 00:10:01:12
Unknown
It was interesting reading through the book. There are a lot of books in this space where you're trying to get familiarity with numbers and words and letters, whereas actually what I found really interesting, and I think it matches a lot of the questions we get from our parents. It was more around routines, how to put your shoes on, finding your peg.
00:10:01:13 - 00:10:24:16
Unknown
It's going to the loo. Like those were the types of things that were really quite vivid with the book. Yeah, it's I mean, that was the thing that I discovered. It's not really about all the sort of, you know, formal learning stuff. It's sort of trying to lay this sort of foundation of self-confidence and security so that children, when they walk into that door on the first day, they know how to handle themselves.
00:10:24:16 - 00:11:00:02
Unknown
They know how they feel that they are confident in that environment. And it's just a little very small set of sort of skills of knowledge, of attitudes and a little bit of behavior that form this kind of toolkit that I just wanted to give them, that they could just so that they knew what to expect and what what they should, you know, what they should bring to the school environment in terms of their behaviors and, and sort of their attitude, really.
00:11:00:03 - 00:11:20:18
Unknown
And I mean, the sort of headlines that we always read about this time of the year and come September is that like a third of children start reception without the basics, I guess. Is the intention is success for you actually that that number changes as a result of helping parents read the book and identify the course of what you want.
00:11:20:19 - 00:11:45:12
Unknown
More than anything, I always think that this as an author, as an author, I'm sort of trying to parent everybody else's children, and I'm just. And what you want is every child to walk in the door and to enjoy that experience and to be able to thrive and flourish, to make new friends, which is as a child, I know the learning is really important, but as a child, it's all about the friends, isn't it?
00:11:45:12 - 00:11:49:18
Unknown
It's about that and being able to connect with with your peers,
00:11:49:18 - 00:11:54:15
Unknown
but also being able to deal with the adults that you're going to come into in touch with every day.
00:11:54:21 - 00:11:58:16
Unknown
looking at the book. So Kate Henley's classroom is busy.
00:11:58:17 - 00:12:28:13
Unknown
It's diverse. There's a lot going on. It's full of life. All of those classes. Yes, I guess. What are the two of you? And you were kind of picturing what the illustrations would look like. What did you want the child to see on those pages? Oh that's interesting. I mean, I see we work with an editor and a designer, so I didn't I don't really work directly with Kate, so I would talk to the editor and the sort of processes that as an author, you work with your editor and designer and they then brief the illustrator.
00:12:28:13 - 00:12:38:05
Unknown
But we did have a few chats online and talked about it. And Kate's mum works in an early years setting, so she's really familiar with it too.
00:12:38:05 - 00:12:50:14
Unknown
So I think we were just, you know, as an author, I'm always really happy to leave the illustrator to do their, their job. But, you know, I was sort of saying we want to see a whole range of kids.
00:12:50:14 - 00:13:11:21
Unknown
We want to see those details. As a child, I know that I used to do this is because you look at your books a lot as a child, and you go back and you look at all the details. So I wanted those little details of kids, sort of, you know, sort of thing, things that have dropped or that there's a picture of a child playing, playing with the hairdryer.
00:13:11:22 - 00:13:32:09
Unknown
Stig. He kind of he's blowing his face with the hairdryer and his hair's going up. I just wanted that the fund to come into it so it looked really recognizable, really friendly, and also just to have that kind of. There's a chip on the floor in the dining room, that sort of thing. You know, they're kind of it doesn't it shouldn't be perfect.
00:13:32:11 - 00:13:52:18
Unknown
I think yeah, it's all of those little things that make it human, isn't it? It's not perfect. It's not a museum or a heavily curated library. It's a school. It's a reception class. Yeah. They are noisy and messy and vibrant. Yeah, I'm busy and joyful and all of those things. Yeah. And that when they get messy, they get really messy.
00:13:52:20 - 00:14:06:23
Unknown
You touched on it, but I'd love to sort of go into maybe take a step back a little bit from the book into the national conversation about school readiness, and it's something that gets a lot of pick up and a lot of questions in terms of what should ready really
00:14:07:00 - 00:14:09:08
Unknown
also who is responsible for getting that child there?
00:14:09:08 - 00:14:29:08
Unknown
And you spoke about your role in the ecosystem, but a sort of the family or the system around them? What do you I think it's a balance between all of them. I think it's about family. I think it's the wider family, not just parents. It's everybody in the family. I think it's about the early years settings. It's they're very much involved in it.
00:14:29:08 - 00:14:49:14
Unknown
And I think it's about community. And I think we it takes a village to raise a child. We all feel we should we should all feel that children belong to all of us and that you know that we are a kind word to a child that you meet in the street. It's helping prepare, prepare them for the next phase of their life.
00:14:49:15 - 00:14:50:04
Unknown
You know what I mean?
00:14:50:04 - 00:15:12:17
Unknown
I think we all should take responsibility. I really feel that I was a mum myself in the house with my two children, and it's intense. It's really intense. Bringing up small children by yourself. And it's. It shouldn't just fall to parents, I don't think. I think everybody has a part to play.
00:15:12:18 - 00:15:34:20
Unknown
Yeah. I couldn't, couldn't agree more. And a lot of what we see and try and create is that community, that village for parents to not feel shamed. They don't have an abundance of books that they're reading, you know, morning, noon and night, but also that, you know, there are simple opportunities where you can squeeze in a moment with a book before bedtime or while you're having your breakfast or whatever it might
00:15:34:23 - 00:15:58:24
Unknown
And I guess, you know, I've got a maybe slightly more philosophical question around, you know, obviously we're trying we're all talking about getting a child ready for school. And what is it about being ready? What do we what does that really mean, I guess is reading part of the readiness itself, or are you seeing it as a sort of break from actually trying to prepare, from reading and, and an opportunity to explore and live in a different construct?
00:15:59:01 - 00:16:22:11
Unknown
Well, that's a so such a good question. Complex. So I mean, reading does multiple things. That's why I kind of started doing it, because I started to realize that it was, on the one hand, showing a child the world and showing its joys and its excitement, but also warning of its dangers. But the act of reading is also preparing them for that very world.
00:16:22:11 - 00:16:53:21
Unknown
So you know your focus, your concentration, the the memory, the sort of expectation of, of, of of remembering what the story was and knowing what's coming, the language it gives you all of these qualities, all of these aspects are actually helping them go on the journey of life. So it's it's a really complex tool. I sometimes do talks to early years practitioners and people working in the early years space, and I put up on screen a picture of a Swiss Army knife.
00:16:53:22 - 00:17:01:14
Unknown
Do you know what I mean? With all its blades out. And it's quite a violent looking image, but then I just put round the edge. This is a very useful tool.
00:17:01:16 - 00:17:12:04
Unknown
A book like this, you know, is it does so many different things all at the same time. But because it's just a book, it's just and it's just pure fun.
00:17:12:05 - 00:17:41:14
Unknown
You don't know that you're developing your concentration, developing your speech and language, your focus, your ability to predict the world. The next word, you know, it's it's like a multi gym for the baby brain, but it's totally painless. It's just fun. You know? It's just fun. My children are a thing. You know, they asked for Pip and Posy on repeat and you know, and it's sort of, you know, but it's a they want the same books often for 40, maybe 40, 50 nights on the trot.
00:17:41:15 - 00:18:04:00
Unknown
Yes. Which is delightful. But I guess it's an interesting. That's because they're still getting the learning out of it. And we know from the studies that have gone on about the baby brain that children need to to have things repeated over and over and over again to nail the learning from them if they're still asking for it, if you can bear it, keep reading it to them.
00:18:04:00 - 00:18:13:21
Unknown
Because even if it's not, you know, if it's another book, not just pip and posy, but because it means they're still sort of almost squeezing the juice out of it.
00:18:13:24 - 00:18:26:10
Unknown
they can still find something that they can be extracting in terms of learning from it. And they and they find it reassuring. I think they're all always looking for security.
00:18:26:10 - 00:18:53:01
Unknown
And repetition is very important to all of us. We all like to do things, you know, the security of a repeated routine and reading the same book over and over again, it's very, you know, gives a lot of security to them. Very reassuring. I find it quite cathartic as well. So good. I'm pleased to hear that. I guess there's the other side, though, which is, you know, we want to make sure that the families we work with don't ever feel guilty.
00:18:53:02 - 00:19:11:17
Unknown
They don't ever feel shamed into not doing these things. And I'm enormously aware of sometimes there are chaotic home lives of people that, you know, parents that are exhausted. They may have very few books at home as well. And, you know, perhaps they didn't enjoy reading themselves as a grown up. They may not enjoy reading.
00:19:11:19 - 00:19:21:02
Unknown
What would you say to a parent that's feeling that sort of emotion and sort of going, well, actually, reading is another thing that they perceive themselves to be failing at.
00:19:21:03 - 00:19:48:09
Unknown
Yeah, try not to do that because you're sort of judging yourself. And if you can, there are so many books out there and, you know, I don't want to sort of, sort of advertise my books, but sometimes there are very wordy books, you know, and they are wonderful. There's really long picture book stories and they're too long. You want to, you know, you want to have a little bit of a shorter story or a story which you can just enjoy together.
00:19:48:10 - 00:19:53:22
Unknown
I do lots of interactive books because I think they're very playful
00:19:53:22 - 00:19:59:22
Unknown
They don't put too much pressure on the parent because they've got they're very light on text and very light on words,
00:20:00:02 - 00:20:04:15
Unknown
they give lots of agency for the child. So the child gets really engaged in them.
00:20:04:15 - 00:20:33:23
Unknown
They feel really important. They love it. And as a parent, you can just almost play with the book. So I don't really mind if you don't read the words on the words that I've written. As long as you're just engaging with the child and the book together and having a really lovely, joyful, fun experience that that you know, that that makes you feel that connected to each other, parent and child, but also connected to the book.
00:20:33:24 - 00:21:00:17
Unknown
That's really all that matters. You have to finish it. Either it's my other, finish it, do a couple of pages, do a whole book. Yeah, but mine are only like sort of ten pages long. So they I mean all books like mine. So pick a shorter book that you find if you're a parent who feels intimate, you didn't really enjoy reading or you don't, or it's not your English isn't your first language, or you just feel like you're really pushed for time.
00:21:00:18 - 00:21:23:07
Unknown
Pick a short book. Pick a book that you know you can crack through, but that just gives them a little a couple of minutes of delight and of connection with you. That's gold. And I guess, any tips or guidance around, you know, again, a lot of people talk about reading at bedtime, but I'm also often aware that my children will be too tired or I'm too tired to to read.
00:21:23:07 - 00:21:41:11
Unknown
And you know, it's not the right moment. Any particular places you've seen, people reading your books or opportunities? You think in the course of the day all the time. I mean, I have a whole stack of children's books which have which were my children's books, which have food, dried food all over them. And I didn't mind at all.
00:21:41:16 - 00:21:50:05
Unknown
I had got used to buy a lot of books from charity shops. They were cheap books, and they just used to sit and with their high chair and just read the book at the high chair,
00:21:50:09 - 00:22:03:21
Unknown
you know, or just once they've had a nap after lunch and they're a bit sleepy. That's quite a nice time after they've just woken up, just to sort of cuddle up somewhere and just have a little book together, because they're kind of quite low key before they wake up.
00:22:03:21 - 00:22:36:00
Unknown
So I think you can grab tiny moments and literally this is five minutes, four minutes of reading. But that is so potent for for your relationship and for the relationship with them with that, that they will have with the book going forward. And there's a really interesting statistic, which is that a child who has been read to daily from 0 to 5 will have heard 1.5 minute, nearly 1.5 million more words than a child who's not.
00:22:36:01 - 00:22:54:23
Unknown
And that has, I mean, that tiny drip, drip effect, tiny, just a five minute book has that effect. And that's very advantage for a child to have heard more words, to be able to understand the world is so much is really helpful for them. Profoundly important.
00:22:55:01 - 00:23:01:00
Unknown
And as you say, really important for the parent to to feel like they're part of that bonding opportunity.
00:23:01:00 - 00:23:17:04
Unknown
Again, we find a lot of the families that we work with struggle to find those moments to really bond with their children because of the chaos of modern life, and they may be under severe economic strain or other complexities at work or at home.
00:23:17:04 - 00:23:21:03
Unknown
What would you say? I mean, for those parents, what are they really getting out of it?
00:23:21:03 - 00:23:42:16
Unknown
What are your kind of hopes for mum and dad, or the carer that's sitting with their child reading the book for the parents to get out of it? I think it's about the relationship with your child. And, you know, I was like talking, going back to that little adventure thing you need to get. It takes time to get to know your child and for them to get to know you.
00:23:42:18 - 00:23:44:12
Unknown
And humans are.
00:23:44:14 - 00:24:14:23
Unknown
It's so important to us that we have trusting and solid relationships. That's everything. That's our security in life is based on our on on good relationships. So you can't rush it. A relationship with the child, it takes, you know, it takes these little moments of of shared experiences that this is how you learn about each other and it will enrich your relationship going forward.
00:24:14:23 - 00:24:45:15
Unknown
And it becomes a relationship of, you know, if you need them to do something and they feel like that you spent a bit of time with them, they might, you know, compromise for you. They'll they can see that you've given them all they really want out of you is your time as a parent. So if you give to them and this is what I found with mine, you give them your time and then they and they that you receive that back from them.
00:24:45:17 - 00:25:03:01
Unknown
You start, you know, occasionally they would not want to do something and I would want them to do it. And I would say, oh, come on, you know, we've had this, we've done we've had the story. Now could you do this? And I could see that they would go, yeah. All right. Well yes, you did do that for me.
00:25:03:01 - 00:25:06:01
Unknown
And we'd banked a little bit of, of sort of,
00:25:06:04 - 00:25:23:05
Unknown
you know, I hate to talk about it in monetary terms, but if you give, if you give to a little bit of gold of your time to them, they give it back to you. And, you know, you get that exchange of, of, of sort of of the relationship.
00:25:23:07 - 00:25:44:12
Unknown
I think that's true. And it's a beautiful moment that reciprocity and exchange of time. And I guess there is sort of we mentioned briefly about the way that you've tried to create your book so that they are accessible as possible. And I guess, is there something around moving away from even calling it reading, you know, it's storytelling or it's just the ability to engage?
00:25:44:14 - 00:26:04:11
Unknown
You know, talking about pictures and audio books now very, very popular obviously. What what would you say to a parent again, that sort of trying to find a way that de-stress, trying to trying to de-stress it for themselves and take the pressure out of it? I mean, I talk about sharing books a lot and sharing books is it doesn't mention the word reading.
00:26:04:12 - 00:26:21:08
Unknown
You know, it's it's about just being playful with the book. Use it as a bouncing off point. You know, there's a great book called You Choose, which has got very little text in it. And and every time it's basically you have to choose which of the I don't know if you've ever read it. Oh, it's fantastic. You must buy
00:26:21:12 - 00:26:39:13
Unknown
You have to choose which car you want to drive. And there's just a whole page, different cars. Or you have to choose which building house you want to live in. And it's illustrated by Nick Sharrock, who does these lovely illustrations, but you just literally it's just about finding out who what the other person likes.
00:26:39:13 - 00:27:06:24
Unknown
And you say, oh, I think I'd like to live in this little cottage or this little toadstool house, or I'd like to live in this castle, and you just you just start to have these conversations. It's just about chatting with each other, really. And it's playful. It's really free form. It's really no pressure. It's just about spending. In some ways, it's not stories is is the thing that's important and the conversation is the thing that's important.
00:27:07:00 - 00:27:15:03
Unknown
The book is a sort of really clever piece of tech that we've invented to help us to tell stories.
00:27:15:03 - 00:27:26:19
Unknown
I mean, I used to like them because I was very tired at the end of the day, and I really wanted to script and somebody to I wanted to have that nice bonding moment. But I was so tired, I couldn't be bothered to make up a story of my own.
00:27:26:19 - 00:27:47:10
Unknown
And I didn't really want to talk anymore because we'd been together all day. But just to open up and read somebody else's words and have this little and have the characters doing things, and you could just go, oh, look at that mouse. He's done this. It was just all there for you. So it was a sort of a really helpful device that actually I saw as a friend.
00:27:47:12 - 00:28:14:24
Unknown
And that's what, as an author, I tried to to write books that parents see as a, as a friend to their relationship. That's helpful. Yeah. You also touched on the developmental benefits for the child themselves, and I wasn't eight month old at home, so I'm really so lovely. The benefits of that baby that's demanding the book that loves the flaps, the mirrors, all of the the noises that come alongside the sliders that are fun.
00:28:15:05 - 00:28:40:20
Unknown
What's the developmental work there? Because that's not reading necessarily, but that's getting familiarity. Reading. It's all reading. That's what I mean. I think reading is really broad. It's turning the pages, it's chewing the pages, its opening the the flaps, it's looking at the pictures they're visually reading. I mean, that's that's reading. It's not just you're not reading the words on the page, but that it's all reading, even if they're holding the book on the head.
00:28:40:22 - 00:28:44:07
Unknown
I o as far as I can say, they're enjoying the book
00:28:44:13 - 00:29:03:03
Unknown
as long as you're just engaging with the physicality of it and they will be looking at it. And have you ever had a book that you thought was going to hit, that you thought was going to work and would be kind of incredible, but kind of fell flat with children for whatever reason, they didn't engage with it.
00:29:03:03 - 00:29:23:00
Unknown
Or like, have you had to sort of. Yeah. And what's the piece of advice that children can give and be? You know, it was unexpected, perhaps, that you weren't anticipating. Oh, I mean, I mean, if you're if you make stuff if you're a creator, they, you stuff fails all the time. I mean, some you try your hardest on every single book.
00:29:23:02 - 00:29:54:16
Unknown
I don't know whether it's whether whether they failed with children. Some just some of my books sell better than others. I don't know whether they've failed. It's a very damning word, but some are better than others. Yeah, the use of actually thought, I'm going to have to go back to my writing desk and, no, not particularly. I mean, I mean, some books don't do as well as others, and I always feel a little bit sad for those books, but that's the creative process.
00:29:54:17 - 00:30:19:08
Unknown
You know, some it's a chemistry and you have the designer and the illustrator and the production process and, and my words and ideas and sometimes they are they are. Magic happens and you get something which is really fantastic. And sometimes they're kind of like, oh, not quite as good as I'd hoped. But mostly, you know, I've been doing it a while now, most of.
00:30:19:10 - 00:30:39:00
Unknown
I mean, I'm pretty proud of most of them, actually. Yeah. You've obviously been phenomenally successful. What is the what is the the secret sauce then of the ones that have really worked, really resonated. Is there are there any trends or anything in particular that has differentiated the ones that are always the ones that people reach for on the bookshelf or on Amazon or whatever it might be?
00:30:39:01 - 00:31:01:10
Unknown
I mean, that's a really great question. I think that the thing that I try to do all the time is to have something for both adult and child reader. So I always aim my book squarely at the child, because there I wanted that as a parent. I didn't want books that had jokes or something, or that was so arty that they were just designed to appeal to me as the adult.
00:31:01:11 - 00:31:19:24
Unknown
They were sort of going over the top of my child. I'm imagining a child here. They would kind of almost. They were so sort of highfalutin. They were going over the child's head. So I aim the jokes and all the delights straight at the child, because as a parent, I'm programed to want to see my child grow and develop and flourish.
00:31:19:24 - 00:31:24:13
Unknown
So I'm kind of I'm all about this book, stimulating my child.
00:31:24:13 - 00:31:47:11
Unknown
But as a parent, I also want to to have my little heart sort of blossom with joy because I love the words, I love the sentiment of the book or the art. So I try to write books and work with the illustrators that make that have a bit of wit to them, or charm or
00:31:47:13 - 00:32:13:17
Unknown
sort of heart, wit and heart. A bit of edge sometimes. Sometimes they're a little bit they've got I mean, I always really love English books because they're quite she does English, Irenaeus. She does really fantastic, slightly retro feeling books which remind us, I think, a little bit of our childhood. So they've got a bit of heart to them, but they're quite cool and Scandinavian, so they look quite good when they're tucked under your buggy.
00:32:13:17 - 00:32:46:04
Unknown
So I'm always trying to appeal to both adult and child. So the successful ones are the ones and Pip and Posy, I think, for example, another one where Axel does this all the time, he just adds in little details that are charming and funny and maybe a little bit dark sometimes. There's always there's always somebody who's falling over or they're sort of like, I don't know if you've ever looked at brutal pictures, but there's always somebody falling over or dropping an ice cream or being pecked by a bug.
00:32:46:04 - 00:33:05:17
Unknown
So there's, there's layers of, of depth to, to the book that I think parents enjoy. So I think the successful ones are when the parent thinks it's quite a cool book and the kid thinks it's just great. So yeah, I think, yeah, that's, that's the, the magic.
00:33:05:20 - 00:33:22:10
Unknown
so we know that there's a lot of families that struggle to access books and perhaps parents that don't have time, or they've stopped reading for pleasure. And we know that there's a gap that's emerging, perhaps even getting wider in terms of the lower income households to actually get those books.
00:33:22:10 - 00:33:39:05
Unknown
What would you like to see in terms of a mechanic or a mechanism for those families to to have access to books? Yeah, I mean, I think school libraries are just they should be an absolute given across the country. Every, every primary school should have a library.
00:33:39:05 - 00:33:52:12
Unknown
And I mean, I'd love to see earlier settings having little lending libraries so that you had a little bookshelf and as, as the kids went out or, you know, you could sign books out or bring them back again.
00:33:52:14 - 00:33:55:11
Unknown
So I think that would be a fantastic thing.
00:33:55:16 - 00:34:14:09
Unknown
a lot of reading, is about a lot of everything that we do as humans is about habit. And if you can start that habit early and just comes, becomes knitted into your life that you just every time you leave your earlier setting, you pick up a book and go, right, we'll read that tonight and bring it back again.
00:34:14:11 - 00:34:39:11
Unknown
That would be I would just love that. That would be my heart's desire, because it would be transformative, because you're a campaigner as well as an author, and you've done a lot to try and advocate on behalf of young children and families when it comes to to reading and books. I guess if you had the ear of the minister that responsible for their early years, or we've got a new prime minister probably coming in the next couple of weeks, what would you say to them?
00:34:39:11 - 00:35:02:16
Unknown
What would there be? You know, whether whether it's within the Treasury, but more generally from a from a societal level, what would you be looking for? What would win them to concentrate on the early years? I mean, the early years is is where it starts. It's where the habit starts, where the love of reading kicks in at this point, if you can, if you can hook them in at this point, then you've got them for life, I think.
00:35:02:17 - 00:35:26:04
Unknown
I mean, it also has so many massive benefits in terms of their school readiness, but in terms of going to bed on time, and I have a lot of teachers saying to me that they can't teach their children after maybe 1130 in the morning because they know that they've been up till 1030 the night before on, on a device of some sort, and they're just completely wired.
00:35:26:04 - 00:35:53:19
Unknown
So if we could get that early years space or the early years sector right, it would set us up for all the other education that comes later. And that would absolutely be about getting books to them and getting them into the habit of reading and really focusing on that, because we do a lot around reading for picture book age children and fiction when they're reading fiction.
00:35:53:20 - 00:36:19:24
Unknown
But really, all the data and all the research shows that if you hook them in between the notes of threes, you've got them. So that's where it all starts. And I guess we said at the beginning, you've been in this space for a while. What gives you the most optimism? I guess sometimes when I'm asking questions we focus on where there's challenge and where there's, you know, things that aren't necessarily where we'd want them to be, I guess.
00:36:20:00 - 00:36:23:01
Unknown
Yeah. What do you see that gives you hope, that makes you optimistic about the
00:36:23:03 - 00:36:30:24
Unknown
I'm really delighted that we're starting to talk honestly about how.
00:36:31:01 - 00:36:41:16
Unknown
Unhelpful screens are for babies and that, and that screens are not particularly good for all of us, to be honest. But they're particularly bad for young children.
00:36:41:18 - 00:36:55:02
Unknown
They're too fast. They muddled, they're they're too quick. They they don't. They work at a pace that their brains cannot follow. And that makes them they literally makes them release hormones into their bodies, which makes them feel stressed.
00:36:55:02 - 00:36:59:14
Unknown
That releases cortisol into their into their bodies. And books don't do that.
00:36:59:14 - 00:37:28:00
Unknown
And we know that. So I think, I think we're starting to talk a lot, a lot more about how problematic screens are. And I think there's going to be, you know, obviously the new government legislation that's just come out banning the social media will have this trickle down effect, and we will start to take care of our children's brains more, I think, and realize how how wonderful these devices are, but also how problematic they are.
00:37:28:06 - 00:37:53:17
Unknown
That's a very important message, and something that we try and create in our hubs is screen free environments, where mum and baby can bond and look at each other in the eye, or dad or carer has the opportunity with low down and just exist in this moment. I mean, you know, we're all doing it. I'm constantly checking my little phone and you know, and I, my emails are coming in the permission to leave.
00:37:53:17 - 00:38:10:09
Unknown
It is lovely just to be able to, I think will make us all less anxious. I think that's, you know, it's not great for any of us really, but particularly for kids. I've got a couple of quick fire questions, if that's all right. Yes. For us to close out. What am I doing tonight? No. So
00:38:10:13 - 00:38:15:24
Unknown
what is the book that you've read to a child more times than any other?
00:38:16:01 - 00:38:20:18
Unknown
Oh, that's such a good question.
00:38:20:20 - 00:38:31:22
Unknown
Well, there's so many, I mean, I used to there's a sort of loads that I used to. We used to read all the time, Mr. Magnolia. We used to read all the time.
00:38:32:01 - 00:38:39:16
Unknown
Brown bear. Brown bear? I used to read all the time. Do you have any brown bear? Brown bear? What do you see?
00:38:39:18 - 00:39:04:12
Unknown
So that one was a huge one. Where the wild things I used to read all the time because I. I absolutely loved it as well. And the tiger who came to tea. A good one as well. Sorry. You can't ask me which one's my favorite. That's like saying, which one's your favorite child. You can't do that. And is there one picture book that you think every home, every family should have?
00:39:04:14 - 00:39:30:16
Unknown
I think a the perfect picture book, honestly, is Where the Wild Things Are because it's about the imagination. It's, it's it's about the potential of life. It's about rebellion and it's about the comfort of home. It's about, you know, he goes off and comes back and his dinner is still hot. And that's really powerful. It's sublimely illustrated.
00:39:30:19 - 00:40:02:09
Unknown
It reads beautifully. I mean, it's it's just exquisite art. Bedtime story or morning story? I'm bedtime. And then the best sound that you've heard a child make while you're reading to them. Oh, gosh. It's been a while. I mean, I was reading, I read to a whole group of kids yesterday. I read I'm ready for school to about 40 kids yesterday, and they did a lot of cheering.
00:40:02:13 - 00:40:11:11
Unknown
Yay! It was the noise that they made. So that wasn't bad. Great. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you.