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The Sabbath Life Podcast is about sharing stories from the Abbey of the Heights retreat house in Tulsa—all about finding rhythms of life that make us more human, learning the Christian contemplative tradition, and becoming friends with time.
Peter White (00:05)
Welcome to the Sabbath Life podcast. This is a space where we share stories about the Abbey of the Heights and the Christian contemplative tradition and rhythms of life that make us more human and friends with time. I'm Peter White. I'm one of the hosts of the Abbey of the Heights Christian retreat space here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And today I am joined by Katie Tramonte. Katie, do you want to share a little bit about who you are and kind of the ministry work that you're involved in?
Katie (00:31)
Yeah, I would love to. ⁓ So I'm a wife and mom in my 40s living life and I have the privilege of running a ministry called Original Design Restored. Our primary aim is to facilitate transformation and right now we're kind of on a pause, but all our resources are available. But a few years ago, we were very, very alive and active in the Tulsa area and we were hosting groups and retreats and our goal was really for women to engage their stories at the intersection of the gospel, personal narrative, and experiential learning. So all of our groups, all of our resources, all of our retreats really cultivated this sense of what is the overarching gospel story? What is my story under that story? Like, what have I lived? And then... kind of healing and growth with actual tangible experiences as opposed to just learning knowledge and trying to think the right way to live. Instead, we really tried to engage like art and senses and prayer and practical, like really practical tools like self-care and understanding your limits. So that was something that I was doing a couple of years ago when I lived in Tulsa. And then outside of that, I'm just kind of a regular wife, mom, living life.
Peter White (01:46)
Fantastic and today you are in you're not in Tulsa anymore at the moment, correct? Yeah. Las Vegas. Which is probably exactly like Tulsa in every way,
Katie (01:51)
No, we're in Las Vegas now. Yeah.
It's just spitting image. No, it's been a very different.
I actually grew up in the Nevada area, so it's very familiar for me. Like the desert setting, very familiar, but culturally very different than in the Tulsa area for sure.
Peter White (02:04)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, tell us a little bit about how you came to discover the Abbey of the Heights. How did it become on your radar screen and what led you to walk in the door for the very first time?
Katie (02:20)
Yeah, so it's interesting. actually, so my family and I lived, I mean, maybe not even half a mile from the Abbey and I didn't know about it, but I think my husband Val and you were friends at the time. initially Val was like, I think you might want to check this out. I think this might be something you would like. And I had just led a big retreat for the ministry I was running and knew I needed some recovery space. So I booked a half day retreat, which I thought was really cool that it didn't have to be an overnight, ⁓ big investment retreat to come to the Abbey. So I just booked a half day at the end of my retreat that I'd led somewhere else for my ministry and came and had a room. I thought, I'll just like figure out how to decompress. But the coolest thing when I started that half day retreat was on the desk in the room that I got to stay in for that half day was a kind of like a guided prayer exercise, kind of reflective journaling and prayer. And it was the best thing that I could have imagined. It was like someone had created, I mean, obviously someone had created a space for me, but it was like someone had created a space for me to connect with God and unwind from what I had been carrying. And so I sat there at this desk and just went through this guided prayer exercise that I did not plan on or knew that was even gonna be there. So that was my first experience at the Abbey. then, I mean, since then, I think I tried to do or participate in almost everything that Abbey had to offer while I was living in Tulsa.
Peter White (03:40)
Thank you. Thank you. It's good to have fans like that. What do you remember what some of those were?
Katie (03:42)
Yeah.
Yeah, so after that half day retreat, I loved the way that Abby felt. And I think the next thing that I did was I think I reached out to you to see if I could lead a group. So I had groups that I was leading like on a weekly basis for my ministry that I was running. And I had been hosting those groups in a backyard, because it was originally during COVID when I was hosting groups. So we were like in a backyard. But I wanted to... I really wanted to maintain the feeling of home and safety. So when I thought of leading groups at a location, I didn't want to go to kind of a formal setting or an institutional setting. I wanted the feeling of home. And so I started leading groups at the Abbey, you one night a week. And it was, it was at the Abbey, but it was for the ministry I was running. And I had women coming and we would go through, we were working through Curt Thompson's, The Soul of Shame. ⁓ And the Soul of Desire and those books if anyone's familiar with those books that content is powerful you're looking at your life through the lens of the gospel and How the enemy wants you to stay in shame so that you're not creating goodness and beauty on the earth So so that I mean like deep content right and we're having these women come And dig into their stories and dig into the places of shame and bring them before God and the Abbey was such a gift to lead that group and because we, even I remember one woman in particular, she walked in and she's like, as soon as I walk in, I feel peace. And she like physically was like, that's how she felt when she would walk in the Abbey. And so there just was this, we would walk in the doors as a group and sit down and you have two living rooms at the Abbey. We would sit in the front living room, but we'd sit down and there was a sense of peace and safety where we could engage this deep, meaningful content. We could be honest about our stories, but it also felt like we were at home. But more than even home, because I think for some women home is like good, but it's also got a lot of task and chore. But the Abbey doesn't feel that way. Like you walk into the Abbey and it feels like home and rest and peace and then safety. So emotionally, we could dig into our stories and it felt safe. Like there was a calm and really like a spiritual calm there that was very unique. And then actually that another group a little bit later where we needed to split into two groups. And so one group would stay at the front living room and another group would go to the other living room. Those were, it was just like for groups, amazing. And then I also got to participate. My absolute favorite thing at the Abbey is the prayer stations. I scheduled first for myself. So if anyone doesn't know, I should probably explain those. And I'd actually love to hear like where that started. But the prayer stations, like my experience as a participant, you have a like side area that has like six to eight little sectioned off, almost like cubicles, but it doesn't look like cubicles, but like little tiny spaces. And each section has a different theme or set of prompts to engage with God and reflect and pause. I, like every opportunity that I could get to come to the prayer stations for myself, I loved. And then with one of my groups, I actually would have us walk in and go to the prayer stations first. So for women, moms, wives, just women carrying the load of what it means to be a woman in the world. We would have this opportunity to come in and before a group we were trying to share and engage, I'd have us all go to the prayer stations for 15 minutes and everyone would just have 15 minutes to transition from life and sit and they could go to any station they wanted. And that would be like our transition from life to meaningful, transformative work. And then the last thing that I got to participate in was a the contemplative community. And so for about the last year that I lived in Tulsa, I would come to your contemplative community on Sunday afternoons and it would be the space where I got to connect with community, with other people who love Jesus. And it was a place where I got to sit and be with God, where I wasn't leading. And I think for me, that was really important because I was leading a lot of the time in spiritual spaces.
So those are kind of my big ways. I would love to hear more about the prayer stations and how that even started, because that's my absolute favorite. Like I think that's the hidden gem of Tulsa and everyone should go experience the prayer stations. So how did those start?
Peter White (08:02)
Oh, well, yeah, there's so much to tell there. So when we first took over the house, there was a huge dining room table in that space. It was a dining room. And we didn't know what else to do with that space immediately. So we just asked the family, can we just keep the table there? And so that's what we did. So for probably the first year or so, it was a place where we could do larger group meals.
And then I had a guest who her work for maybe the last 10 or 15 years has been to design prayer rooms and she works with a national prayer ministry. And she was like, Peter, you gotta get rid of this table. Like this needs to be a prayer room. And I was like, okay, Lisa, like run with it. What do you want to do? And so she designed these, ⁓ what do we have? Yeah, it's about seven or eight little desks with partitions that kind of give you just a focused space, something tangible. It's kind of a more creative way of engaging with God than just, you know, sitting in a chair with your Bible, but something more in deeper than that. And so, yeah, that was the beginning of those prayer stations. And so, yeah, that's been maybe about four years or so. So they continue to kind of evolve and we change them out kind of with every, every season. So during the Lent, there's some particular guided prayers there. And now that it's Easter tide, that's changed and a little bit different. And yeah, so we try to keep those just kind of fresh and engaging. There's one of my favorite ones right now is related to in Tulsa, the city.
Maybe about five years ago started keeping track of a number of indicators and trying to quantify things like homelessness and education rates and they call it the equality indicators report and so we have now each month we'll focus on one of those one of those issues in our city and make a prayer prompts around that particular particular issue.
So yeah, and then there was a young couple that was involved in volunteering and helping put together the prayer space. But then I asked them, like, what if we had prayer stations outside too? And they just jumped on that opportunity that's part of the nonprofit prayer ministry that they're a part of. And so they put together about a dozen prayer stations outside throughout the gardens. And at the moment, they're we're in the midst of redoing those and kind of reimagining those and kind of using some more weather resistant materials that make them a bit more permanent. ⁓ But yeah, so yeah, we really want the Abbey to be a place of prayer and a house of prayer. And so sometimes people are kind of locked into their mental model of what that looks like. And so trying to be creative with that is, so that's, that's a bit of the story. Now, Lisa, the person who put together that those originally the prayer stations. So about a year ago, she started a prayer room here in Tulsa. And then in the last month, she had to move locations and she moved into the church right across the street. ⁓ so here within the next month or two, she'll reopen and I'm excited about what the possibilities are for our guests to experience that and for the people that come for that prayer room to come and see the Abbey and just some kind of some collaborative opportunities with that. That's just exciting. Yeah.
Katie (11:15)
Yeah, that's cool.
That is really cool. That is really cool. Okay, so here's my question for you on that too with prayer stations. And then you probably don't know this about the prayer room across the street yet, but for the prayer stations, if, someone's listening to this in Tulsa, which I think everyone in Tulsa who's listening to this should go check out the prayer stations. Like I think go individually, go as a couple, or like for ladies, like grab a bunch of your girlfriends and go, like the five of you go to the prayer stations and go to lunch afterwards. How does someone... Like how does someone book that and then it's free, right? Like, will you explain the process? I think that's kind of mystifying to some people. like, okay, well, I want to do the presentations, but what do I do?
Peter White (11:50)
Yeah, so the setup of the Abbey is we have these big communal spaces on the first floor and groups are able to book that space and then the private rooms are on the second floor and so if you were to book a retreat for yourself that would be on the second floor but the rest of the house is available to you.
If you wanted to just simply come and utilize the prayer stations on the first floor or even in the garden, we just simply ask that you email us ahead of time to let us know when you're going to be around. Just so that we know to expect to you when you show up at the front door or when we see people walking around the backyard, we know who they are. And if we have guests to communicate that, yeah, there's these other people around too. We think that's just a piece of hospitality. So we just want to heads up that people are coming and yeah, there's no cost at all to just simply use the prayer stations during the day.
Katie (12:40)
That's absolutely incredible, super incredible.
Peter White (12:40)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I love that there was one day a young woman just kind of showed up on the front door and rang the doorbell and I went to go check and I wasn't expecting anyone and she said, I heard I could pray here. And I was like, well, absolutely. Like, come on in. Yeah.
Katie (12:55)
Hmm. That's so cool. That's so cool.
Yeah, so simple. Like, anyone could email you and during the daytime show up and spend some time at the prayer stations. And that like it's as simple as that. Like I want everyone in Tulsa to know it's as simple as that. Go check it out.
Peter White (13:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
It is that simple. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. As you think back to like your your work in in hosting groups here, do you have any like favorite stories that come to mind?
Katie (13:21)
Yeah, so I don't know if I have specific, because it's the things that are coming to mind are intangibles. And that's probably what's so special about the Abbey. So when I'm thinking back to leading groups, what's the memories that are coming up is women's faces and the stories they're telling and the way that we're sharing in those communal spaces as we're working through, you know, we're working through the books that we're working through or the discussion questions that we're working through. But what I like, The favorite memories are women's faces and the stories they were telling and moments of tears or laughter that really were created, yes, by content and facilitating and group, you know, but like how it felt to be in the Abbey. those are the memories that are coming up is there's something intangible. And like, obviously, I deeply follow Jesus and I know the spiritual world is like a part of how we live on this earth too. And there's something very intangible, but very real and true about the presence of God at the Abbey. That is my favorite memory. And it's not, can't like pinpoint a story. is, that is my favorite memory of leading groups at the Abbey is what it felt like to be in the presence of God. And I think it's the way that church should feel.
Peter White (14:29)
I heard you say the word safety earlier in relation to the way the groups experience the Abbey. I wonder if you could say more about that and why that matters.
Katie (14:38)
well, I think specifically with the work that I was doing, when you're walking into story work, you're reflecting on your own story. And you're looking at that through the lens of the gospel. So you're looking at the places where the fall has touched your life and you're looking at the places where you Jesus to redeem and you want to experience restoration. That's not light conversation. That's not superficial. So you're going into the deep places of your heart, your soul, your life. And I think that like the safety that's created by the way the Abbey feels is really conducive to being open to sharing those stories, to being open to connecting in those deep places. And I think some of the, so some of this feeling of safety is definitely intangible. And then I'm, as I'm thinking about it, like I'm having like visual pictures of being at the Abbey, there is also a lot of tangible safety. So, and I know that Jackie has had a big hand in that. ⁓ way that kind of the entire aesthetic, the way it feels, there's the intangible presence of God, but then there's also comfortable couches and blankets are what are coming to mind. Like I know that there are blankets and there are times where I've pulled a blanket up on my lap while I'm talking with other women. They're in the second living room, kind of in the back, there's a bookshelf, like there's this feeling of I think what lends to safety is this feeling of comfort and this feeling of home and peace. And there's like the presence of God part, but then there's the tangible, like the way the furniture is set up, the decor, the art on the walls. It's, it, the very like actual things create a feeling of safety as well.
Peter White (16:20)
Yeah, and I'm just thinking about then. I guess the need in our world right now for places that feel safe.
Katie (16:28)
Yes.
Peter White (16:28)
Yeah, how much we need those and how rare they are. Yeah, no doubt that's ⁓ a part of why we wanted to do with the Abbey what we've done. ⁓ And it just makes me think of how we can help come alongside people and maybe even churches of saying this is a place where people feel safe. How can we help you and be a resource to you?
Katie (16:31)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, which I would say for anyone, either church or ministry, for someone who has groups that they lead that you really want a safer or a more comforting atmosphere for the groups you're leading. Like if you're going into deep work or you're doing extended prayer or I even had a dream back when I lived in Tulsa that didn't get to happen, but I had thought of doing like a kind of like a grief processing night. And the Abbey was a place that I would have wanted to do it because it is a safe place. if you have creative thoughts on groups that you want to lead, but you need a place of safety, the Abbey would be a place. And you and Jackie have intentionally cultivated that feeling of safety. that wasn't, that's not happenstance. That was very intentional.
Peter White (17:21)
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. yeah.
Katie (17:39)
So what goes like in the intentionality, what went into your mind for setting it up as a safe? Like I know it's an aspect, it's not the whole picture, but what was intentional on your and Jackie's part for creating safety?
Peter White (17:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's, I mean, you've mentioned earlier just the feeling of home. And I think that's really key and important. That it feel familiar and familiar in a sweet way, in a good way, that you know where to find what you're looking for and know where to go. That it's Yeah, that things are accessible and that you're allowed to be here. And not just that you're allowed to be here, but that we planned for you to be here and we were thinking about you before you got here. And so we like to like when we have scheduled guests to put their name on their door of the room that they're staying at. So just as a way of communicating, we've been thinking about you and preparing a space for you. I have it. sometimes when we have guests saying, if I know any part of their story or what's going on with them, I'll pick out a book or two that I feel like might resonate with the time that they want to spend together. ⁓ So I don't ever want to be distracting in those kinds of things, but offer some kind of thoughtfulness to it. Yeah.
Katie (18:44)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I
love that.
Peter White (18:58)
Yeah, and it just be a physical presence at the door when people arrive that just communicates welcome. Yeah, Hospitality is such a relational thing, I think. Yeah, it's so yeah, we want the Abbey to be an experience different than going to an Airbnb. ⁓ I've met a lot of people that do that have some kind of like value of ⁓ spiritual retreat, but they'll just look for an Airbnb in the area to do that. And that's well and good. And yeah, you can experience God in that and do that. we just wanted to curate a space of sacredness and that you're prayed for before you arrive and that people have been in this ⁓ space before you that have experienced God in this space too and that it's really sacred ground when you step, walk up the steps. Yeah.
Katie (19:50)
Yeah, which
sacred I totally resonate with that when I was thinking of the Abbey, like preparing for this, the word sacred kept coming to mind. And that is very true.
Peter White (19:58)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yeah. Last year we did a big garden project in the backyard because again it was this idea of how how can it be more than just a backyard? What if what if it is like really a space of beauty ⁓ to sit and reflect on the presence of God and experience God in the butterflies that are coming through and in the flowers that are growing up and just yeah that it's not just not just plants but God's creation that we're encountering God and the beauty of God's artwork. Yeah. Yeah, the backyard looks really different than the last time you were here. So.
Katie (20:32)
Yeah, I would imagine.
Yeah, maybe someday when I'm back, I can come see the backyard.
Peter White (20:37)
Yeah. Yeah. In those, in those few weeks between the too cold and too hot. And then the few weeks between the too hot and too cold in Oklahoma. Yeah. But yeah, we like to have just lots of little places to sit outside and be with God on, especially a day like today that feels, you know, really, really nice.
Katie (20:41)
Yeah, right?
you
Yeah.
Peter White (20:56)
How would you say that your experience in that Abbey gave some shape to your own story?
Katie (21:02)
Hmm.
Yeah, so for me personally, so just my own personal story and some of the kind of like what the Abbey, where the Abbey met me. At the time that I really got to engage with the Abbey, I was leading a lot, like leading ministry a lot, like loved what I was doing. But in almost any space that was spiritual, I was leading or facilitating. And so the Abbey for me, met a place that I didn't have at that time. that was really both coming to the Contemplative Community was a space where I got to be led on Sundays through liturgy, just engaging with like the Word of God, prayer, communion. That was something I didn't have to lead. And that for me was a huge gift. And I really was aware that I was lacking something there.
And then again, the prayer stations, like I could talk about those forever. I think those also were a place where I wasn't leading or facilitating. So clearly you, Lisa, others had created these spaces. So no one was there with me leading or facilitating, but someone had prepared that ahead of time. So I could come and sit at a prayer station and I didn't have to lead or be in charge or facilitate. And even though the plan, like I could come sit down and there were prompts for me and I just.
I could journal or draw or engage with God, but I didn't have to prepare anything. And I think for me personally, that was something I really needed. So probably for anyone in ministry, leading a lot of the time, being able to go to the prayer stations or engage in some of the other things that you offer, it's a space where you get to be led. And I think that's really needed. If you're active in ministry, if you're a pastor, if you're a missionary, if you're leading a lot of the time, the Abbey is a space where you can be led. I know now, I mean, it's been a couple of years since I lived there. what are some of the ways, so people who are in ministry or people who are leading all the time, what are some of the ways they can engage right now and be facilitated? Like what are you guys offering right now?
Peter White (23:00)
Yeah, gosh, that's a great question. Well, for one thing, the house is simply available for personal retreats. If you're someone in ministry, we had someone a couple years ago, she was a hospice chaplain, and she paid for a year's worth of day retreats all up front. And she said, put me down for the first Friday of every month and I'll be there. And then every time she would come, she would say, I am so glad today's my Abbey Day because I had four funerals last week. And for her, was both a place where she could do some focused work that she couldn't get done in her office, but also a place of not doing any work and just simply being and kind of letting her body and her mind just exhale. ⁓
So I know people in ministry that use the Abbey in that way. Then we have our School of Spiritual Direction cohorts that are ongoing. It's a two-year program. we have, I don't know, a number, probably maybe half the folks that participate in those are have jobs in professional ministry in some way. And many of them find once they show up and start participating that it's a space where they can just simply be themselves and they're not, they're not pastor so-and-so. They're just another person in the room and get to participate. And ⁓ they, I know it's particularly meaningful for those folks in that way.
we have the the exercises of Saint Ignatius which is also a nine month experience that we start in the fall and goes through the spring so our groups are about wrapping up right now and we've done this past year one group in person here at the Abbey and two online and so the the exercises of Ignatius are this 400 year old curriculum of walking through the story of Jesus ⁓
slowly and meditatively and kind of using a different corner of your brain to experience the Bible and the stories of Jesus. That is really deep and we've had a number of people, again some pastors and other ministry people engage in those groups. And then I think of, and then we have a collaborative relationship with a group called the Order of the Common Life which is a dispersed monastic community.
And so we have done a couple of kind of a almost like taster courses that are just kind of like dipping your toes into the what does contemplative mean? And so we one option of that is a 10 week course that's free. And we do it in person here at the Abbey. And we had I remember when we did it last spring, we had about six people and I think four or five of those six were ministry leaders and some form and communicated, I'm here because I was looking for a space where I didn't have to be in charge. And yeah, so it was a place just to be with other people. So those are four things that I think of right off the bat.
Katie (25:53)
Yeah.
Well, I think it's rare for people who are leading in ministry, whether that's church or para-church, to have spaces where they can go and be led and facilitated. ⁓ And I think the Abbey is a unique place for that, whether it's a day retreat or an overnight retreat or prayer stations, or it's actually one of these courses that you've mentioned where you actually can get something poured into you and you're not trying to figure it all out all the time.
Peter White (26:03)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that was one of the seeds planted in me early on of when I was a seminary student in Kentucky and a friend took me to the Abbey of Gethsemani, this Trappist monastery that was about an hour away from where we lived. that just, I had never seen places like that before. so... I would go out there about once a semester just to have a day to pray and journal and walk the grounds. And then I got offered a job at a church in Tulsa. And so I moved to Tulsa and then was scanning all over, like where are places like that that I could do that here? And so finally decided we had to create one. And so here we are.
Katie (26:48)
Yeah.
If it doesn't exist, make it.
Peter White (26:56)
Right, yeah, yeah.
Katie (27:00)
I'm so glad that you guys did because it is a gift to Tulsa and I think it's just a matter of people knowing about it. I think that it would benefit so many people that don't know about it yet. So I'm glad you're doing this podcast so you can talk about what's available.
Peter White (27:12)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was gonna follow up with another question, but maybe you've just answered it, but like who would you recommend the Abbey to?
Katie (27:23)
everyone. I mean, truly though, I would recommend it to everyone. There's so many, even right now I'm thinking of so many friends in Tulsa that, like, I hope they listen to this podcast and pinpoint something that would be good for them. I would recommend it to anyone. And I think for different people, there's different parts that will be beneficial. I think everyone should check out the prayer stations. I can't imagine anyone that wouldn't benefit from that. Even like teenagers like if I lived there right now I'd want to take my boys and be like let's go do this for 30 minutes like we don't have to stay long we're just gonna check it out. I mean anyone from teenagers to if you're in your 90s like at a minimum go check out the prayer stations, but I think for anyone in ministry there are opportunities for you to have a pause to fill up. So anyone in ministry
⁓ And then I would say any person walking with God, if you don't have a rhythm or a place to go to have that pause, I kept thinking of the word, selah, like pause and reflect in the Bible. And I feel like the Abbey offers that to anyone. So if you don't already have a rhythm or a place where you pause and reflect in your life, I would recommend the Abbey as a place for that.
Peter White (28:32)
Mmm. Thank you for that. I appreciate that Okay, I have a couple of last questions that I'm asking like all of our guests and so these are these are questions To be fun and they're just the first thing that pops into mind These are not like think don't think too hard about these. Okay. Are you can you be game for it? Alright, so the first thing is what's the last book that you read?
Katie (28:37)
The one I'm reading right now is Theo of Golden.
Peter White (29:01)
I am reading that right now too.
Katie (29:02)
it's so good.
Peter White (29:03)
Jackie read it like a year ago and was just raving about it for so long. Yeah. Yeah. If your job was something different than it is right now, what would it be?
Katie (29:07)
I would want to host a podcast and ministry for people going through very difficult things and the message that I'd want to focus on is what made you able to keep going each day? That is the thing that I want to know. It's an uncommon job. I don't think it exists.
Peter White (29:33)
I think your day will come. Yeah, that's such a good question too. Yeah. What's a place you'd love to travel to that you've never been before?
Katie (29:34)
Hawaii, absolutely Hawaii.
Peter
Nice. Do you have a movie that you could watch a hundred times over and never it never gets old like a comfort food movie?
Katie
That's easy. You've got mail. I think I have it memorized, honestly, and I have watched it at probably at least 100 times.
Peter White (29:54)
Amazing. Where's your favorite place to eat a meal?
Katie (30:04)
I don't have a place in mind, but my favorite meal is anything someone else makes for me. Yeah.
Peter White (30:10)
That makes it pretty simple.
⁓ If we were going to karaoke, what's your song?
Katie (30:15)
probably Roar by Katy Perry.
Peter White (30:18)
Nice, nice, I like it. And then what would you say makes you laugh the hardest?
Katie (30:23)
my kids, absolutely my kids. And my husband actually, that's a toss up if I think about it. Yeah, all of them.
Peter White (30:29)
They are pretty great. Yeah. Okay, if people wanted to connect with you and the work that you've done, where can they learn more about that?
Katie (30:34)
So the best way to connect with me currently is on an Instagram account called seeing.inthedark. I share some of, my family and I have been through a hard couple years, so I share some of our story of what we've walked through, how I've walked with God through a heartbreak. So seeing.inthedark on Instagram. But then really the ministry that I ran, we have all of our resources that, all of our resources are free. We have a podcast, have a workbook, we have so many free resources. That would be on a website called originaldesignrestored.org. I think it's a dot org. I'm blanking on that. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it's originaldesignrestored.org. So everything that I got to facilitate and lead and create during the time where that was really alive and active, all of that's available on that website. Yeah.
Peter White (31:34)
Fantastic.
Katie, thank you so much for your time today. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Yeah. Yeah. And thank you listeners too for joining us too. Be sure that you're subscribing to the podcast so that you're able to catch the next stories that we share. And if you like what you're hearing, please also leave us a review so that others can easily discover us. Help us spread the word about the Abbey of the Heights and this life of rest. So until next time.
Katie (31:38)
Yeah. Thank you, Peter, for inviting me. Yeah, it was fantastic.
Peter White (32:01)
May you know in the deepest parts of your soul that you are God's beloved.