Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

“Causality is this foundation that really allows us to anchor what we’re trying to do when we’re telling stories.”
Storytelling doesn’t require a dramatic narrative. For behavioral scientist and former Disney Imagineer Troy Campbell, even everyday information can become a story when we explain the “because” behind it, connecting what happened to why it matters. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Campbell joins Matt Abrahams to unpack the psychology behind storytelling and persuasion. From structuring ideas around goals, insights, and actions to creating “portals” that prepare audiences for what comes next, he shares practical ways to make communication more relevant, persuasive, and memorable.

Takeaways:
  • Stories are built on cause and change. Connecting information through the “because” behind it turns isolated facts into a narrative that helps audiences understand why something happened and why it matters.
  • Start by preparing your audience for what comes next. Effective “portals” create anticipation, shift people into the right mindset, and provide just enough context to help them engage with your message.

Activity:
  • Create a portal. Choose an upcoming meeting or presentation and redesign the first minute to prepare your audience for what follows. Build an opening that creates anticipation, shifts their mindset, and previews where you’re taking them before diving into the main content.
To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium.

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

 Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (00:56) - The Power of “Because”
  • (01:58) - Stories in Everyday Jobs
  • (03:03) - Goal, Insight, Action
  • (06:32) - Overcoming Change Resistance
  • (11:34) - Creating Powerful Portals
  • (17:54) - The Final Three Questions
  • (23:35) - Conclusion

Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Troy Campbell
Chief Scientist at On Your Feet | Former Behavioral Science Professor | Former Disney Imagineer

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Portals provide a powerful way for
you to begin your communication

and engage your audience.

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I'm excited to
speak with Troy Campbell.

Troy is the chief scientist at the firm On
Your Feet, and a former behavioral science

professor at the University of Oregon.

Previously, he was a Disney Imagineer
and a researcher at Netflix Insights.

Troy specializes in blending a scientific
mind with an artistic heart to understand

consumer behavior, storytelling, and
the psychology of human connection.

Well, welcome, Troy.

We have chatted on and off for a
long time, and I am thrilled to

actually have you in studio and
the opportunity to chat with you.

Thanks for being here.

Long-time listener first-time guest.

Very excited to be here.

All right.

Shall we get started?

Let's do it.

Uh, I love so many ways you frame things.

Uh, you describe story theory
as essentially the word because.

How does understanding causality
improve our storytelling?

Yeah, so, um, pretty much if you ask any
theoretician of story, about one out of

two of them will give you a definition
that is more or less the word because.

They'll talk about causality.

So if you read the book
Narrative by Abbott Porter,

he's gonna talk about causality.

If you talk to the comics
professor, Kate Kelp-Stebbins,

she's gonna tell you it's causality.

If you listen to the South Park creators,
they'll talk about how in between every

scene, what happens in one scene better
cause the next thing to happen, right?

And causality is just this foundation
that really allows us to anchor what

we're trying to do when we're telling
stories, which is that characters

are changing, and there's something
that's causing them to change.

And that cause is what's gonna make it
a story rather than a bullet point list.

I just love the idea of thinking
about the change, and that

change is because of something.

So not all of us are in situations
where we have to tell grandiose stories.

We're trying to pitch our business,
we're trying to get people

aligned to what we're saying.

Help us understand how we can
tell stories in our everyday jobs.

Yeah.

What we can do is we can say, "You're
gonna come into the workplace, and you're

gonna share a piece of information."
Like, "Here's an action that we want

to do," or, "Here's a data point
that's really important," and you're

gonna explain the because behind it.

And once you start saying because, and
you say because a couple times, it's

gonna transform something into a story.

The current sales of this product are down
and it's because this thing is happening.

And a deeper reason is because
the consumer cares about this.

And it becomes this real simplified
way to tell, in my opinion, what

is a story, which is explaining why
something has happened, what has caused

a character, a set of characters, they
could be your consumers, to change.

It, it all boils down to that causality.

And when you frame it that way,
it makes it so much easier to

think about how do I, as somebody
telling the story, structure it?

I first have to introduce the players,
the issue, the cause, and then explain

the cause that comes from that.

So you start by explaining who the
characters are and the components,

and then the cause that's involved.

One of the things that you and I
connected on right away is you,

like, like I, believe very strongly
in frameworks and structure.

And you have a great structure
that I really like, GIA.

Goal, insight, action.

Can you tell us a little bit about
that structure and how can we use it?

Yeah.

Um, so goal, insight, action is
goal, what your audience cares about.

We wanna always start with relevance.

That insight is the data, the expertise,
the ingenuity, the causality, the,

the reasons that you're gonna bring.

And action is what your
audience can do with it.

And if you think about this,
you'll actually see it so

many times in things, right?

It's how Steve Jobs always communicated.

He would come up to audiences and,
right, of all, all the people in

the world, Steve Jobs could just be
like, "Hey, Apple, we should do this.

We should have this think different
campaign." But instead he comes up and

he says, "The goal we have in the 1990s
at Apple is that we need to stand out

again, that we aren't resonating." And the
insight, and he says this with his hands,

like that's always how he would talk.

You, you're dressed in black.

I'm having a moment here.

Yeah, I know.

I know.

Uh, my lady said I looked a little
Steve Jobs when I came over here.

Um, and he would be like, "My insight
is that marketing is about values. And

in a world that's really busy, how you
stand out is focusing on values," right?

And then he says, "So the action, what
we're gonna take, is we are gonna have the

Think Different campaign, which is gonna
focus on our core value that we believe

in misfits. We believe in people who
believe that they can change the world."

And that structure is just so simple.

It, it works, whenever you're talking
about data, don't jump to your data.

Say, the goal we have at this
organization is to reach this consumer

or address this fire problem right now.

Some insight we have about the consumer,
about this moment is this, and the action

that we can take to deal with it is this.

And we teach organizations this
structure, and they love not only the

structure, but they love using the
words because it creates sort of this

collective also culture where they
can signpost to their audience 'cause

they've both been trained to receive
and deliver in goal, insight, action.

And it can just be a wonderful
personal habit, but also group habit.

Goal, insight, action, I think,
is a fantastic structure.

And what it allows you to do, the goal
is often something that's commonly

shared or based on a value or your
mission that's already shared.

So you're already halfway there
because you're tapping into something

that people already believe in and
then you're further focusing it.

And, and like any structure, I think
with a little practice and ingenuity,

this can be a really useful tool.

Yeah.

And the one thing I would say is, like,
the goal may be the most important

part of goal, insight, action, and it's
that even if people have that goal,

it's not always active in their brain.

And so you need to remind people
that that is what's important, right?

Um, they might even tell you, "I know that
already," but they're, it wasn't, they

really didn't know that in the moment,
and those motives were not activated.

So make sure you always, before
you're communicating, if you can,

even if it's just one sentence,
repeat the goal that they have

that you are gonna help them with.

A, a goal, I like to say, is a
focusing, has a focusing function.

It helps you focus.

It helps you frame the
discussion and highlighting that.

And assuming people understand
it, and maybe some people say,

"I already got the goals," still
state it, and very good advice.

You've developed research on identity
persuasion and solution aversion.

I had to practice saying that several
times 'cause I, I slur the words together.

When an audience is highly resistant
to the truth due to solution

aversion or flight from the facts,
uh, as you like to say, how does

a, how do we as a communicator
restructure our message to avoid this?

Yeah.

So Solutions can be very aversive.

And because of these solutions, we will
often deny that there's even a problem or

that we need to engage in that solution.

And I often like to think of solutions
aversions as coming from two areas.

So one is our tangible things and
one are more identity based things.

So a tangible thing could be just
like, "I don't wanna stop drinking

caramel frappuccinos." Right?

And when a doctor diagnosed me with
these blood sugar problems when I

was younger, it was like I had a big
Frappuccino on my forehead and like,

"Deal with this issue or I'm not gonna
believe any of the science you're

telling me about my health issue."

And one of the things that he did,
Dr. Manuel Fernandez, is the very

first thing he did is he told, is
he's like, "Here's how your diet is

not going to be as bad as you think
it was." So before all the science

and all the stuff, he was managing my
solution aversion that I'd have to that.

Now the second thing, and, um, this
is the one that's gonna get into one

of my favorite kind of storytelling
principles, is identity, right?

And oftentimes really what we wanna
be as people is we don't wanna have

our identity threatened and we wanna
do things that feel authentic, right?

And so if somebody is telling you
to change your behavior to be more

healthy in your behaviors, or you want
to, or they're telling you to be more

creative, or they're trying to tell you
to tell storytelling, they might even

think, "You know, that does sound like
a good idea, but that's not who I am.

That's not me." And so one of the
things I really like bringing into

this situation is something I worked
on in my dissertation and that I

now call the destiny narrative.

And so the idea behind this is that in all
great stories, characters change, but they

go through a very specific type of change.

They change into who they
were always meant to be.

The princess was secretly
always the princess.

The boy on Tatooine looking up at the
twin sons longing for more always had

the force inside of him, and Moana was
always meant to sail across the seas.

And we really, really like this
thing not only in these stories,

but it works in marketing, right?

Unleash your inner goddess.

There's a warrior inside of you.

So the idea is that we are changing,
but we're changing more into who we

always were meant to be or who we
already are, and it resolves these

two psychological motives that are
so in conflict all the time, right?

I want to improve.

I wanna have goal progress.

I do kinda wanna change.

But at the same time,
I wanna be authentic.

I wanna be me.

I wanna have some sense
of identity consistency.

And what the destiny narrative does,
it is allows for you to stay true and

have narrative change at the same time.

So whenever I'm trying to persuade
people to change, I don't tell

them storytelling is good.

The very first thing I do is prove to
them that they're already a storyteller.

And so now all you wanna do is
you wanna do more of that because

you wanna do more of who you are.

You might not be eating healthy,
but there are some habits that

you have that are already healthy,
and that's important to you.

So eating healthy now is more
consistent with who you are.

So much richness in that response.

So let me break it down
from what I'm taking away.

Uh, solution aversion, resistance,
hesitation, concern that people bring can

be focused on something very tangible.

There's something I like doing
or don't like doing and you're

threatening me because you're saying
I should or shouldn't do that.

And a great way to address that is to
immediately address that resistance.

This it's not as bad as you
think or they're, you're, you're

well-equipped to deal with this.

So address the emotion, the
concern before you layer on all

the things that need to be done.

And, uh, as you were saying that, I was
reflecting on my parenting and how poorly

I did because I would always lead with,
"Here are all the things you have to do.

And oh, by the way, you can do it."
Uh, vice versa would be helpful.

And then the other part with the
identity piece and part of what I

heard you say there, what's, what's so
important is this notion of consistency.

You're showing that you're already
there or you have that ability,

and having people reflect on that.

So as we go to persuade, motivate,
inspire, thinking about those areas of

resistance that, that, uh, challenge
or solution aversion, and then thinking

about the tangible and identity issues
that play out can help us restructure

the narrative to motivate people more.

That's fantastic.

One of the things that you teach and
talk about that has fundamentally

changed the way I teach and
think about my communication

is through the lens of portals.

When you talked about portals, and
I'd like you to define for all of us

what they mean, uh, it really changed
the way I think about how I start and

how I move through my communication.

Can you educate us all on what you mean
by portals and how we can apply that?

Yeah.

So my definition of portal is
about how to begin an experience.

And the idea is, is that a portal is
a way to transition people into an

experience where the point of it is, is
that you are getting them ready for the

most important parts of the experience.

So you might start with a
bang, but you really don't.

You just need to slowly
transition people into it.

And a lot of this is based upon
Walt Disney Imagineering, and they

actually use the word portal to
describe how to begin experiences.

So when you are walking into the Disney
park, you go through a tunnel, and that

tunnel even says, like, you're leaving
the current space you're in, and you're

going into fantasy tomorrow and the past.

And that transition time inside of
that tunnel and knowing the direction

in which you're heading allows you
to sort of start transitioning.

And then when you go on each of
the rides, they have these ways in

which they ease you into the story
that is different for each ride.

So in Buzz Lightyear, that is a ride where
you're gonna be on the ride and you're

gonna be shooting this little laser gun.

So the portal into that is a cartoony
intro in which Buzz Lightyear gives you

a pep talk and they show you the targets.

It's silly, high energy,
very focused, right?

And you can think of,
like, a creativity warm-up.

They're like, "We're gonna
be really active later in

this meeting," so we do that.

But the portal into Haunted Mansion is
very different because Haunted Mansion

is a passive ride in which you're
gonna go through a haunted mansion

and you're gonna look around and
you're supposed to look for details.

And so the way that introduces you is
you walk through a graveyard noticing

silly little jokes on the tombstones, and
then you get in the stretching elevator

where your ghost host literally tells
you to look in different directions.

And so it's facilitating
you into those things.

And what they're doing in these portals is
they're doing three general psychological

things that are overlapping but distinct.

One, it's creating anticipation
for what's to come.

Second, it's getting you in the
mindset shift, in the specific

mindset you're supposed to be in that.

And the third is it's previewing
the narrative for that experience.

So it's not telling you the whole
story, but it's giving you enough

into the narrative that you're ready
to be going, what Melanie Green

would call narrative transportation.

I think this is such a powerful idea.

Many of us in our communication,
especially high-stakes communication,

we focus on what's the message we want.

We don't think about how do we
bring people to that message.

And there are lots of ways to do it.

You can think about the
calendar invite you send out.

That can be a beginning.

As you mentioned, in a meeting, you
can have some kind of icebreaker or

activity to warm people up, as long as
it's somehow connected to what comes.

What drives me nuts is where you do
some kind of icebreaker, and then

the next task is totally unrelated.

It's whiplash almost.

It, it's, yeah, bad.

The point of it is we need to activate
the right parts of the brain or the

right memories for the task at hand,
and that's the point of a start.

Yeah.

And I liked, you know, I, I played with,
uh, the three components of what a good

portal does to, to make it alliterative.

It's the triple A. It's anticipation.

It's approach.

And then I couldn't come up
with anything besides altitude.

It tells you what, what
level we're coming.

So, and you can do this not just at the
beginning of, of your communication, but

often in meetings you might need a portal
to bring you into another topic or area.

I challenge everybody listening to
think about how can we look at this

idea of portal, setting people up to be
successful in a way that really helps.

You know, at the beginning of this
show, I try to do that, where I give

a little bit of introductory idea
to help people orient to what it is.

I really appreciate that.

And, and Troy, I've
appreciated everything.

We'll be right back to
finish our conversation.

But first, a quick word
from one of our sponsors.

Their support allows us to bring
you this show free of charge.

One of my favorite things
about this show is hearing from

listeners all over the world.

Communication connects us, and the
more people you can communicate

with, the bigger your world becomes.

So many of you are collaborating
internationally, working across cultures,

or simply trying to connect more
deeply with people around the world.

That's one reason I've been thinking
more and more about language learning.

Babbel focuses on helping you have
real conversations with real people,

not just memorized vocabulary.

Their lessons are designed by more
than 200 language experts and built

around practical communication skills
you can actually use in everyday life.

And because the lessons are short
and approachable, it's easy to

fit them in a busy schedule.

Just 10 minutes a day can help
you make meaningful progress.

If you've ever thought about
learning a new language, this is

the perfect opportunity to start.

Right now, Babbel is offering up to 60%
off your subscription at babbel.com/tfts.

Before we get started, a quick reminder
to make sure you're following our show

in whatever app you're listening to.

This is the best way to help
our show grow and to make sure

you never miss an episode.

And now a word from our sponsors.

Their support helps us bring
you this show free of charge.

Over the course of my career, I've
had the privilege of working with

some truly amazing coaches, and I've
also spent years coaching others.

And I can tell you firsthand,
coaching makes a real difference.

That's why I really appreciate
what Strawberry.me is doing.

Strawberry.me makes coaching more
accessible, affordable, and global.

Whether you wanna become a stronger
communicator, a more confident leader,

or simply more intentional in your
career, having the right coach in your

corner can make an enormous difference.

Visit strawberry.me/smart and take 50%
off of your first session, and make

sure you let them know Matt sent you.

And now, back to our conversation.

As you well know, we always
end by asking three questions.

One I make up just for you, and the
other two I've asked everybody, and I'll

be curious to get your answers to that.

Are you up for this?

Let's do it.

All right.

So question number one, What's
the best piece of communication

advice you've ever received?

Um, so the best piece of communication
advice for me, it really was tailored

well to me, uh, came from one of
my advisors in graduate school, Dr.

Peter Ubel, and let me set this up.

So I gave my talk on my dissertation,
and I went in and he sat me down and

he said, "Troy, you're one of the most
joyful people I've ever met. Your name

even rhymes with joy. Uh, you sign your
emails 'Enthusiastically, Troy,' every

time, and your dissertation is literally
about why people enjoy things." And for 20

minutes I never saw you smile once, right?

And telling somebody to smile is not
always the best advice, but for me it was.

Like, part of why people like
engaging with me is that I

really love these things.

I'm the behavioral scientist who
worked at Disney Imagineering.

People want that energy and that joy.

I'm literally delivering them on science.

And so it's great advice for me,
but it's also, like, who you are and

what you are delivering, when you
can match that, it works really well.

Yeah, so striving for congruence between
how you feel about something and how

you deliver are really important.

And, and I'm glad you got that
advice because you do, uh,

radiate joy and excitement.

Um, question number two, who's a
communicator that you admire and why?

So one person who I really, really
like in that space is Bong Joon Ho.

He is the director of the Oscar-winning
film Parasite, and also other films

like The Host and Snowpiercer, and
he is so good at using direction.

So in the movie Parasite, uh, if
you've seen it, the rich people live

on the hill and the poor people live
literally down the hill and in the

basement, and he uses that up and down
constantly for storytelling purposes.

In Snowpiercer, it's a movie that
takes entirely place on a train, and

so one direction is always the back
of the train, one direction of frame

is always the front of the train.

It's a metaphor, but it's also
spatial and it's so wonderful.

And after watching a video essay by Every
Frame a Painting on the movie Snowpiercer,

I was just like, "I should just be using
space for everything I do." And so I

used to be a person who walked around
on stage, but just to bring energy.

Now I walk, and when I move between parts
of my story I now am in a new position.

I'll assign different parts of the stage.

Sometimes when I'm being more
avant-garde, it's like this is, this

is the scientific mind part, and
this is the artistic heart part, and

this is just me in the middle, Troy,
telling you how I actually feel, right?

And just the ability to use space
to tell story is amazing, and it's

just so wonderful to watch movies
'cause I get new ideas all the time.

I like that idea of, of observing other
forms of communication to teach you,

uh, how to be better, but that use of
space is really important because you're

signaling and sending lots of information.

Human beings are wired to pay attention
to space, uh, and location, and doing

that consciously I think adds a lot.

And, and I really appreciate that
you do a nice job of bringing

science and art together.

Final question, what are the first
three ingredients that go into a

successful communication recipe?

Yeah, so, uh, since we've been talking
about, a lot about storytelling,

I'll do mine that's based on that.

And it's cause, character,
and change, right?

And just those together is really simple.

If you're like, "Oh, I need to make
this data presentation more important,"

okay, what are my characters?

What's causing them to act?

What can we do to then change?

If you're stumbling on just, like,
a story about your own past, it's

like, okay, what caused me to change
my mind about something, right?

And all of a sudden you have a story.

It's just three little tiny bits
of things that can do so much.

Cause, character, change.

You know I'm gonna love it
'cause it's alliterative.

Interestingly I don't know that the
order of that matters if you're

trying to get it, uh, to initiate
a story or move a story forward.

But you need the three
ingredients together.

Yeah.

And our, so our brains can, our brains
understand narrative causal structures,

and they don't need to be told in order.

And, uh, my friend James Antony does a
lot of neuroscience research, and how

he, he finds how people connect things
and remember things and pair things in

the brain based upon causal connections.

So if you're watching something, you can
watch, you know, a episode of Friends

and they're, you put all your, "Okay,
this character is in this plot, and I'm

connecting it here, and I'm connecting
these plots." Or you can watch an

episode of, like, How I Met Your Mother
that's often told out of order, but

your brain can put that all together.

Your brain is obsessed with
understanding characters.

It's a social, you're a social creature,
and it processes things in logics.

And so when you have characters
in logical causations, you're just

gonna reach the brain so well.

So well put, as was
everything that you shared.

Troy, thank you for your time.

Thank you for your insights,
and thank you personally for

impacting the way I communicate.

Awesome.

Well, it has been great to be on this,
and, uh, I love what you do here.

I love that you also create some
of the best type of content that we

can deliver to our students, right?

You can start a class with a clip
from your podcast and really get a ton

of information and get the students
excited to engage in something.

Well, thank you.

I appreciate that.

Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

Fast, Talk Smart, the Podcast.

To learn more about creative ways
to communicate, please listen to

episode 156 with Scott Doorley.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With special thanks to the
Podium Podcast Company.

Please find us on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts.

Be sure to subscribe and rate us.

Also, follow us on LinkedIn,
TikTok, and Instagram.

And check out fastersmarter.io for
deep dive videos, English language

learning content, and our newsletter.

Please consider joining our Think
Fast, Talk Smart Learning Community

at fastersmarter.io/learning.

You'll find video lessons, learning
quests, discussion boards, my AI

coach, and book club opportunities.

Again, that's fastersmarter.io/learning
to become part of our Think

Fast, Talk Smart Community.