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Conversations with marketing leaders on how collaboration and creativity are completely free power-ups for their team.
Choosing the wrong vendor can really hurt your company. It can cost time and money and honestly wreck momentum. In today's conversation, we're uncovering insider strategies to vet, hire, and build vendor relationships that don't suck. Ones that align with goals for growth and help you get there. Hello, and welcome to Building Creative.
Joel Carter:I'm Joel Carter. And today, I'm joined by Vanessa Condie to talk about how to identify strong vendor partners and how to spot the red flags of those that aren't. Vanessa, welcome to the show.
Vanessa Conde:Hey, Joel. How are you? Thanks for having me.
Joel Carter:You bet. You bet. For for folks who are just meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Vanessa Conde:Yeah. Sure. I am a, a New Yorker transplant into Miami, Florida, and I've spent, the last 30 years of my career in marketing. I started on the agency side in New York. And, when I moved to Miami, I transitioned to the client side.
Vanessa Conde:And I've spent the last 15 years, specifically, marketing and franchising at franchisor level. So I've worked on a number of different brands in the beauty space, in the home remodeling space, most recently in, in the dry cleaning space. So it's quite diverse. As I say, marketers are like actors. You know, once you know the foundation of acting, you just have to learn the parts.
Vanessa Conde:So I've learned a lot of parts over my career. So it's been, you know, pretty fulfilling, pretty exciting, and diverse. And then, you know, separately from that, you know, now I've I've been going more into the consulting space and marketing, but also, on the side, have launched a new business where I provide consulting in the condo industry here in Miami, for those communities that want to go self manage. So a little bit of a different curve. Marketing plays a big role in that as well, but very similar to franchising.
Vanessa Conde:It's all about, passing down information and helping stakeholders keep value in their in their equity.
Joel Carter:Yeah. Love that. I love that idea of of yeah. We we play different roles and I mean, that's honestly what I love about marketing. Why don't why don't we start with setting the foundation?
Joel Carter:I don't I don't think anyone here is going to, to to not understand it. But let's just start with that foundation of the need to hire vendor partnerships and what it what it looks like and why it's difficult or frustrating.
Vanessa Conde:Yeah. I mean, you know, in in my roles, particularly in franchising, let's use that as an example. You know, VP marketing, chief marketing officer on the franchisor level, you're you're you're managing a lot of moving parts because you are helping the franchise grow their footprint. You know? So it's there's there's a b to b component to that.
Vanessa Conde:And then there's, you know, helping the franchisees or stakeholders, you know, operate and run and market their business and providing them overarching marketing support. So with that comes the need to engage, vendor partners, that help us, you know, do what we do on the on the corporate national level, let's say, but also potentially to kind of farm them out to the franchisees on the local level, so that they can support them because local marketing has its own nuances depending on where you are in the country, let's say, or internationally because I've worked with brands who have had international franchise systems as well and have had to kind of run them in tandem. And and every time I'm I'm faced or, you know, with a chore, I call it a chore of finding a new vendor partner for marketing, particularly in today's day and age in the digital marketing space, I'd always kind of let out a sigh because I knew that it was going to take a lot of effort, a lot of work, a lot of research and due diligence. And even with all of that, even if I did everything right on my side, there's still kind of a gray area, you know, or or an aspect of of not knowing not knowing ultimately what you're really getting into once you've made that choice after all your due diligence until there's proof of performance.
Vanessa Conde:And, you know, usually, the first 90 days sometimes I I say they could snow you in the 1st 90 days, and then by, you know, the next set of 90 days, you're really understanding what you're dealing with. Some of them kinda come true to who and what they are pretty quickly. And that's where, you know, you know, some of the red flags come up. You know, if if you haven't identified that in your vetting process, you'll sue soon see it if you've chosen the wrong partner. So I, you know, always kind of faced with that, you know, understanding of that's the way it could potentially go.
Vanessa Conde:It was always stressful for me. And I always felt like even if I had somebody on the team level helping me go through the process, we were both on same side with the same concern. Is this gonna work out? Are they gonna provide the service? Are they gonna live up to the promise and do the job that they've been hired to do?
Vanessa Conde:And some have fallen short. Many have fallen short. You know? Sure.
Joel Carter:Well, you you talk about that chore and a little bit of that anxiety. And it, I I think it's worth talking about for a minute because the reason why there is that that that fear of choosing the wrong one is because even though it's their fault for for failing to perform, you take the reputational hit. You know, the the the marketing leader. And while that's unfair because organizations can, you know, pull a snow job, it it it's just it's life. It's just the facts of the matter.
Joel Carter:So, I mean, talk about have you have you been in that moment where you had to take a reputational hit because you had a vendor pull a fast one and really hide, you know, their their true capabilities and and kinda what that meant for you?
Vanessa Conde:Yes. Actually, in in the last, project that I worked on, I had hired in this particular case, it wasn't a digital marketing vendor. It was a full service agency that had to execute a brand refresh for me. And, you know, I was in a situation with a a client. They started as a client, and then they sort of absorbed me in house because the project was bigger than what it started out to be.
Vanessa Conde:I had this this particular brand that were skeptical about everything, and they, you know, they were 20 years old. There were a lot of old school, you know, head office people that were resistant to change. So that there's a barrier there. And usually when I go into a franchise system, typically, it's because I've been hired to audit the system and implement some change. So people are always resistant to change.
Vanessa Conde:It's like that saying, you know, change is good. You go first, but nobody wants to go out
Joel Carter:of Yes.
Vanessa Conde:And so, you know, and so right there, when when there's skepticism and when you're putting them through a big process of transition, everything you do is being looked at under the microscope. And so especially when you're bringing in vendor partners, which means additional spend that they didn't either plan for or never did before or maybe don't want or don't understand that they need it and have to allocate money for it. You gotta make sure that you pick the right team, you know, the right vendor partner. And in this particular case, in in this situation I was mentioning, I picked a a brand agency that I thought had it all together and that were great. And then they came out first foot strong and forward, you know, fantastic facilities, a full suite of services, a really great dynamic team, the selling team, the strategy team, they were fantastic.
Vanessa Conde:But when it came down to dealing with the creative team and, the the the the account service folks, you know, we immediately got once they they landed the account, they pushed us down to the BC level team members. So younger team, interns just coming out of the gate, not really polished, not really experienced. And I found myself, you know, having had agency experience, which is where I grew up in in New York on in the ad agency business, having to play ad agency account rep, you know, toggling between both both sides of the fence just to cover up for their shortcomings, so that, you know, the folks at the corporate headquarters didn't look at me as, you know, having been the one who made a bad decision, and then therefore, it was a hit on my character or my expertise or my ability to make the right choice. And I suffered through that through the whole project, like, basically running it the whole way, not being the client, but actually being the client, the agency, you know, and the monitor of the entire thing. And it took a toll.
Vanessa Conde:It took a physical toll on me as well, as well as a mental toll. And fighting, you know, the system in in that organization who were resistant also to providing the support I thought that they should have been providing because that's what I hired. And they were, you know, fighting back on that too. So it was a cluster to say the least. And, and it it questioned my integrity or my my ability to do my job, quite a bit with the company until I was able to pull it through to the end result, which was fantastic.
Vanessa Conde:But, man, did I have to lead it all.
Joel Carter:And and I would assume you had to set other initiatives, or focuses on the sidelines so you could make sure that this didn't cause reputational harm by their their lack of
Vanessa Conde:Oh, man. I was writing website copy. I mean, that I hire vendors to do that. I don't wanna build websites. So, you know, website copy that's SEO driven.
Vanessa Conde:I mean, that's not what I do. I lead teams to do stuff like that. So it was I I it was a learning curve. I mean, I I can build a website now.
Joel Carter:So bravo. I mean, hey. Listen. Bravo to you for, you know, doing what it took to not take the hit. You know, there there was couched in what you said there I think is is maybe a deeper, or maybe at one of the bigger flags which is the the number of times that agencies or vendor partners they show up with their best team and they are so good at selling, you know, it's what they do for a living more or less.
Joel Carter:And yet when the project kicks off, there's that immediate pass to the the junior team. Any thoughts to this or any ways to to either spot it before it happens, or or even spot the behavior within the organization to realize that's an organization you don't wanna do business with? Or if not that, any ways to prevent that or or sort of hold them accountable for that behavior?
Vanessa Conde:Yeah. I mean, I think spotting it is very difficult because, like I said, I I mean, I've I've been around a long time, and I was easily snowed in this particular situation. I mean, how was how was I to know from what I was experiencing for the first, you know, 4 or 5 meetings and, you know, right right up until the time we engaged and then a little bit after that I was then gonna be transitioned down to to very young team members or inexperienced team members. So I I don't know I have that I have a solution for how to spot it, but what I do know now, especially having some of this recent experience, is that I know when to say no. I know when to determine to pull the plug if I have to and pivot and make a quick quick switch, you know, and not let it get down so far.
Vanessa Conde:I think the mistake that I made was I kept making excuses for them and saying, well, I can cover that and I can do this. And I kept letting get go down the path to the point of no return where you were so far down and had spent money and already gave, you know, the first deposit and then the next one and then the next one that it was like, man, where it's so embedded with them that if I pivot now, I'm gonna lose all the equity of which I've built up and this and the work, and it's gonna be a disaster. So I know better now to pull the plug real quick if I'm not happy from the beginning, not worry about hurting anybody's feelings, not worry about, you know, excuse my French, pissing anyone off, and and facing and and, you know, leadership and turning around and saying, hey. Look. This was a mistake.
Vanessa Conde:I need to make a change really quickly. Let's hold off for the moment until I can accomplish that.
Joel Carter:Sure.
Vanessa Conde:Because otherwise, you go down a path of of what as I did. You know? I wouldn't necessarily say wasting well, yeah, wasting money. I'm I got the job done, but man oh, man was it painful.
Joel Carter:Yeah. So I'm I'm hearing themes of which is the thing I'll always champion, which is trust your gut. Like, it it sounds like you should have, maybe said earlier on, like don't make an excuse for them, they're failing. Let me ask you this, is there a way or do you envision a way that this scenario could have been preset with leadership. Not not assuming it happens, not hoping it happens, but making them aware that there are always risks when it comes to bringing in outside outside partnerships.
Joel Carter:And kind of setting a little bit of like, this is the line in the sand when they cross this line. This is where we know we're not gonna chase these these sunk funds, and we're gonna cut and we're gonna and we're gonna bounce at least. Do do you think that has the potential to build trust through awareness of the situation, or do you think it depends on the leadership?
Vanessa Conde:Well, you know what? I think no matter who the leadership is or what their, you know, personalities are positioned, you know, is on what you're doing as a job that you've been hired for that and the path that you're taking them down, I think that's a good first step and a mistake on my part. I I should have. I wouldn't call it cockiness. I I'd say that I had enough confidence to believe in the decision making process that I had to go through because I know my betting style, and it's usually pretty thorough.
Vanessa Conde:I was blindsided. Right? But I will I will have to say that, you know, I was kind of going on a lot of what my previous experience was. And I think things have have changed and continue to change, and I'm starting to see that more. And as I engage with more companies and and more people I mean, I hate to sound like, you know, the old lady in the room, but I just feel like things are not done the way I grew up in the ad agency business or what I was used to, especially from a customer service centric standpoint.
Vanessa Conde:And what I'm learning as we go on as technology takes over, as the teams get younger and they're inexperienced and they're coming up a different way from how I was brought up in in the ad agency business, that I have this feeling that this challenge is becoming more and more the norm. Right? Dealing because and and because there's so many agencies, they're like a dime a dozen. And so I think you are now in a position where you have to face it like this moving forward no matter what and advise leadership in an agency or a company that you're working with, like, in my case, in this franchise system. Hey.
Vanessa Conde:Look. This is what I do. This is how I do it. And, but I can't guarantee that we're always gonna hit it on the nail because it's kind of a wild, wild west a little bit right now. And, and I will do my best to, to find the right partner.
Vanessa Conde:And I promise that if I identify immediately that they aren't the right partner, that we're going to pivot very quickly. And I'll, and I'll look to have your backing on that end of story.
Joel Carter:Yeah. That makes sense. It it sounds like it is addressing the potential challenge before it comes so that way there there is a road map, also in light of just, like you said, things things feel different, things feel like they've changed. What what about, talk to me a little bit about you you know, you you said, I believe you said this was a a full service agency. Talk to me about how much of a red flag or a green flag it is to see an agency that thinks they can do it all, you know, all the mediums, all the channels, all the all the different approaches versus those that that have chosen a lane and chosen to excel in it and let go of of other lanes?
Vanessa Conde:So, you know, I've I've always been a big proponent of under one roof. I like everything under one umbrella because I you know, especially in franchising, there's so many moving parts. There's so many different people and and vendor partners you have to deal with that. If you can streamline it, it's better. Right?
Vanessa Conde:Because you you you wanna work with partners that have the ability to scale because that's what franchising is all about. It's about scale. And so and and forward thinking and whatever you're planning today, you've got to think about, is this gonna work 5 years from now or where at the point in 5 to 10, you know, or even not even 10, 5 years, let's say, because that's a lot. You know, that it comes quickly, but it's kind of a long time in franchising. What what where will I need to pivot in that 5 year process, to make sure that whatever I'm building today applies?
Vanessa Conde:Right? So and that it can scale. So I so but what I'm finding is that I think, especially when you wrote, you know, that that the that the full service agencies of days old, are challenged right now because now they've gotta add digital to their wheelhouse. Right? And digital marketing and and and processes and services is ever changing, always growing.
Vanessa Conde:It it that's why they're, you know, stand alone agencies that just do that, that just do digital because it takes a lot of manpower. It takes a lot of constant digging for gold and analytics, and I I call it digging for gold. You know, every day, it's an everyday thing. So it it would have to be if you're gonna go with an all in agency, I think you have to then play with the big guys because you need an agency that has the financial resources to really have the capacity to have all of these different divisions, branding, strategy, creative, media buying, and then, you know, digital and all of the different layers and the components of digital to to be a to be a successful company that can provide you all these services. They need to have deep pockets, and they need to have the resources to be able to have those strong teams.
Vanessa Conde:If you go with the smaller guys, I think they suffer because they're always kinda stealing from Peter to pay Paul. They're they're they're outsourcing. I think, you know, it it kinda gets a little bit out of hand, and then they're just basically doing what you would do, what I would do, which is, okay. I'll hire this agency for this and then this digital partner for that and this. You know what I'm saying?
Vanessa Conde:So the question is do you do do you deal with an agency that's gonna do that anyway and may fall short, or do you just hire them individually yourself and then make sure they're all talking and monitor the
Joel Carter:process? Yeah. It's it sounds like if it sounds like when you kind of recommended more towards the larger firms, it's that they're of the size and scale that it's almost like they have independent specializations underneath one roof. But but then as you scale down, there's a point where you a specialization of a certain, medium or function is gonna be one person and that's not really, you know, specialized. So do you is there is there any questions in your question set, as you're interviewing these vendor partnerships where you seek to find out how much of the work will be outsourced, what type of outsourced partners they are?
Joel Carter:Is that is that on your list where you're like, if this is how you're gonna operate, I'm just not interested. Like, what does that look like for you?
Vanessa Conde:I'm sorry. Say ask that question again.
Joel Carter:Yeah. Just in terms of, like, as you're interviewing, are you do you ask to find out if they, outsource anything themselves? And if so, does that cross them off the list, or are there factors that may get workable?
Vanessa Conde:I mean, I think if they're upfront about it and they let me know what areas they're outsourcing, and I'm able to, you know, either be part of that process or at least, you know, clued in to to what they're doing, you know, in bringing on those extra partners, then I I wouldn't necessarily cross them off. I just I'd want I just wanna know, and I wanna know that it's not an internal team. Because then what happens is you're you're working from a place of, like, you're kinda you're not really knowledgeable, and then I could potentially be overstepping my boundaries dep with what I'm asking for because I'm pushing on a a a person, that's basically a vendor partner to them. And, you know, it's sort of like, am I in the right to do that? And people get kind of funny about this.
Vanessa Conde:Like, oh, I don't work directly for you. I work for the agency. So I'm taking my lead from the guy here, not from you. I just happened to be working for 2 hours on your project. And, and that's where it starts and that's where it ends.
Vanessa Conde:You understand what I'm saying? Yes. I
Joel Carter:do. That makes perfect sense. So so here's here's what I'd like to hear from you is so let's say you're on a on a call, you're that exploratory call. And, like there are definitely hardcore questions and tactics that can help you spot good and bad actors, when it comes to this partnership. But I'm also a big believer in that gut is the second brain.
Joel Carter:Right? The the the, you know, science shows that that instinct is powerful. So I would love to hear the things that maybe you've never even said aloud that are a little bit of like alarm bells or or very, soothing behaviors when you see it from a leader, from an agency leader, where you're like, okay. This is a good sign or a bad sign that are maybe maybe harder to quantify than the usual things.
Vanessa Conde:Let me see if I understand the question. So what are the things that I would point out, you know, to the agency once I've identified it and how would I point it out?
Joel Carter:No. What what are the what are the red flags that are more tinglies? Like, more, just an instinct or a hunch. Right? Nothing nothing that's like like in your list of, you know, for for an intern to check off, but the things where you're like, I don't like the way this person is talking or behaving or their eyes.
Joel Carter:Or are there just any sort of real loose alarm bells that you're like, I'm I'm not a fan?
Vanessa Conde:Yeah. I mean, I feel like so, you know, the customer service aspect, like I was saying, is really big for me because and I'm talking about agency account service, customer service with their clients, how you're handling clients. I I'm finding and and, again, I'm generalizing a little bit that sometimes the level of customer service, the account people that that are handling the business, they're lax they're they've got this kind of not lackadaisical approach, right, to to what they do. There's no urgency. They kinda wow you at the beginning, and then they sort of then I'm doing their job.
Vanessa Conde:Right? Because when I'm when I feel like I'm starting to and I grew up on the account service side. That's how I started in the ad agency business. So that's a real pain point for me or look at, like, you know, a trigger if I feel like the account person is is slacking and doesn't have a sense of urgency, doesn't have their checklist, doesn't have their boot camp, you know, whatever, schedule, going to manage the projects. If I've gotta tell you how to do your job, that's an immediate no for me.
Vanessa Conde:That's a problem. And I've had that I've had that issue before because that frontline person, that mediator, you know, that manager between the agency and the client, managing the moving parts on the on the client on the agency side and providing services and and just trying, you know, trying to think ahead for the client. I had this conversation with a a young lady that was an account service person on on our business. And I I was very transparent with her and I said, listen, look, back in my day, I was running around with job jackets trying to schedule everything today's day and age. You press a button, and it does it for you in a few minutes, separate from what a AI can do for you on the spot.
Vanessa Conde:And I said, so I'm really looking for you to go a little bit above and beyond. And when I mean above and beyond, you gotta think ahead. You always, as the account service person, have to be anticipating what my needs could be because you're researching the market. You're looking at the competitive set. That's your job.
Vanessa Conde:Right? You're kinda ahead for what, you know, what we as a client may need and and then thinking about how the agency can provide that service. Because for you, it's a win win. If you can upsell me more services, you know, at the end of the day because you've identified something that there that may be a need or that's happening in the marketplace or is happening with the competition, that's that's a good thing for you guys. Right?
Vanessa Conde:Yep. So, you know, when I'm having to tell you how to run your your project schedule, what I'm having to correct a little bit of attitude because I've asked you for something that you're not in the mood to do Uh-huh. That, you know, a lot and there's and there's been that. It's like, this isn't this isn't your house. I'm not your mother.
Vanessa Conde:Like, you know, we have a contractual agreement. We have a relationship here. You have to provide a service. And I and my job is to give you as much guidance as I can for the needs on my side. End of story.
Joel Carter:I love that. I love that. And I I think that you what you've covered today is just such a good reminder that sometimes those red flags are they're clear as day. Like they just don't understand your business or, they just have misaligned on on what you need and what they think you need. But there's also those red flags that are more felt.
Joel Carter:It's the lack of urgency or it's just not not going above and beyond, not anticipating needs. Like, it's what that all the all of those red flags, what they indicate is are they listening to you? Are they paying attention to you and they're to serve you? And I I I really feel like what you're saying is is, like, trust the red flags, the big ones and the little ones. And I just I love it.
Joel Carter:This has this has been great. Thank you.
Vanessa Conde:Thank you.
Joel Carter:Where, where can people find more about you, online?
Vanessa Conde:Well, I'm on LinkedIn, so I can be easily found there. I think I can do the yes. I I don't think I have that much privacy on my account. I can be easily found there. And, and and my new company is Insight Community Solutions, just all of that.com, insightcommunity solutions.com.
Vanessa Conde:And I can be found there as well. And that's the business that I launched, to provide consulting services to, condo communities going self managed. And that's it.
Joel Carter:Awesome. Well, thank you for joining me today. It's been a pleasure.
Vanessa Conde:Same here. It's been really great. I hope you have a great weekend.
Joel Carter:Yeah. Alright, folks. Well, thanks for listening today. These Building Creative conversations, they're a partnership between Building Creative and Oddity. You can learn more about us online at buildingcreative.coandprojectoddity.com.
Joel Carter:I'm Joel Carter and I hope you join me again next time for Building Creative.