Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Patrick Babbitt explains why energy compliance is not a burden but an opportunity.
Jeff Nichols speaks with Patrick Babbitt, Climate and Energy Program Manager for the City of Bellevue, Washington. The conversation delves into Patrick’s plans to make its public and commercial buildings more energy efficient and compliant with Washington State’s Clean Buildings Performance Standards. Buildings account for nearly 50% of greenhouse gas emissions in Bellevue, making them a central focus of their climate strategy.
Patrick’s career in sustainability began in Tacoma, Washington, continued in New York City and now centers on Bellevue’s Clean Buildings Incentive Program. His work emphasizes collaboration between local governments, building owners and operators to meet state requirements while creating broader benefits such as cost savings, tenant satisfaction, and extended building lifespans.=
Washington’s Clean Buildings Law applies to more than 800 buildings in Bellevue. Of these, about 600 Tier 1 buildings already face performance requirements, while roughly 200 Tier 2 building larger retrofits–making compliance less daunting, more inclusive and ensuring that even under-resourced owners and operators can begin making progress.
Patrick highlights real-world success stories like Bellevue’s own Service Center which is undergoing a multimillion-dollar upgrade expected to reduce its energy use intensity by 30 energy usage intensity (EUI) points, supported by state incentives. Similarly, a local hotel has identified over $100,000 in potential savings alongside a projected 20-point energy performance improvement. These examples demonstrate that compliance is not only possible but often financially advantageous.
Looking ahead, Washington’s Clean Energy Transformation Act (mandating 100% clean electricity by 2045) aligns directly with Bellevue’s efforts. As the grid decarbonizes, buildings that electrify their systems, particularly HVAC, will rapidly move toward zero carbon. Since 80% of the buildings that will exist in 2050 are already standing, retrofits are not optional; they are essential for meeting climate goals.
Patrick underscores that starting early is critical—waiting only makes compliance harder and potentially costlier. Simple compliance steps like benchmarking can be completed in weeks, while larger retrofits may take 18 months or more. He positions energy efficiency as a shared responsibility among owners, operators, tenants, utilities, and government, with abundant resources available to support progress.
Bellevue’s climate strategy demonstrates that energy efficiency is not just about meeting state mandates. It’s about reducing carbon emissions, lowering energy and operating costs, and securing the long-term value of buildings, all while contributing to a healthier environment and more sustainable community.
If you have questions or feedback for the Reframe team, please email us at reframe@pilotlight.ai. Follow the show through your preferred podcast app to stay updated on future episodes! Or, you can find all episodes at Pilotlight.ai/podcast.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is Reframe?
Reframe is the podcast about building sustainability.
Commercial and public buildings are among the biggest producers of carbon emissions. It’s a problem of massive scale. But, for building owners, engineers and contractors, solving it may actually be more of an opportunity than a challenge. That’s what the “Reframe” podcast is all about. Join host Jeff Nichols on an exploration of the forces driving sustainability in our built environment. And meet the people who are leading the charge.
Reframe Podcast
Episode 11:
Bellevue Part 2: Reframing Building Compliance
with Patrick Babbitt
Announcer: [00:00:00] This episode of Reframe is brought to you by SBX, the Smart Building Exchange. If you like the Reframe podcast, you'll love the SBX Fall Conference. It's the Pacific Northwest's Annual Climate and Sustainability event for building owners, operators, and leaders across the industry. Where innovation comes to light and partnerships are formed, add it to your calendar now.
The SBX Fall Conference is November 5th at Seattle's Bell Harbor Conference Center. Visit SBXConference.org for details and registration. Early bird discounts available for a limited time. Now here's the show.
Jeff: Welcome to Reframe. I'm Jeff Nichols. On this show, we've explored the people working at the front lines of climate action contractors, innovators, community leaders, each playing their part in reshaping our built environment. Buildings are where we live, work, and gather. They're also one of the biggest climate challenges in Bellevue, Washington.
Nearly half of the city's greenhouse gas emissions come from buildings. That's a staggering number and it raises some big questions. How do we make our existing buildings more efficient? Who helps owners and operators understand new laws and incentives? And what does real progress look like at the local level?
Today we get an inside look. My guest is Patrick Babbitt, climate and Energy Program Manager for the City of Bellevue. He's leading the city's Clean Buildings Incentive Program supporting more than 800 properties as they prepare to meet Washington's new clean building standards. This conversation is about more than compliance.
It's about how cities like Bellevue are balancing growth with climate leadership [00:02:00] and how turning buildings from a liability into an opportunity. Can save money, extend their life, and build a stronger community. When I have questions, I ask questions, and I have so many. Patrick Babbitt, welcome to the Reframe podcast.
I'm thrilled to have you on the show.
Patrick: Pleasure to be here. Thank you, Jeff.
Jeff: So let's just start with a little bit of background or kind of intros. Tell me a little bit more about your background.
Patrick: Sure. I've been at the City of Bellevue for about two years now, but I got my start in local government sustainability work, uh, 11 years ago now at the city of Tacoma.
I have a background, uh, educationally in government and public administration, but I consider my sort of on the job and public service training most valuable. Um, I worked at the city of Tacoma for about eight years and. My work to this day looks fairly similar to that work. Everything from understanding how government works as a public administrator to managing projects like someone might in any other organization.
It includes a research and policy analysis role and things like managing contracts and grants.
Jeff: What drives you? What are, what are you really passionate about?
Patrick: Yeah, I got into the building sector really recently. Um, and it's become, I think, my, my real focus, um, career wise. But it all really started by just being a young person in junior high school who was really concerned about climate change and also really interested in the role that, uh, local government can take in making people's lives better.
I think it's really our job to do something useful with the resources that the public and, and businesses give us. And honestly, it, it comes from a place of wanting to serve my community and my country. And so, um, this is really that space where I can do my bit maybe with my own, uh, angst about the climate [00:04:00] crisis, but also advance, uh, something useful in, in the world.
Jeff: You were most recently, uh, with the City of New York, which of course is, has been a leader in this space with commercial buildings and local law 97. What, what brought you back to Bellevue? And talk a little bit about what you're doing at Bellevue now.
Patrick: Yeah, that's right Jeff. So my time at the City of New York was sort of closely tied to this small change in career path for myself.
Um, I worked on the municipal buildings and facilities in New York and we were working to make them higher performing, energy efficient and decarbonized there. And one of my responsibilities here at the City of Bellevue includes our Clean Buildings Incentive Program, which is in a very similar vein. Um, while I Don't manage our own municipal buildings here. We work with the over 800 buildings in Bellevue that are required to comply with the Washington State Clean Buildings law and performance standards.
Jeff: Let's maybe start with just the state of the state. I, in talking to Jennifer the other week, I was really surprised to learn 50% of all greenhouse gas emissions in the city of Bellevue comes from our buildings, both residential and commercial.
That's a staggering number. So like how do you kind of paint the picture of where the city of Bellevue is today, and then we'll dive into where you're looking to take the city going forward.
Patrick: Yeah, it really is an incredible statistic. About 50% of GHGs come from the built environment, and another 40% or so come from transportation.
And as we know, the two can be closely tied if you're, if you're charging, uh, your vehicle at home, for example. So in terms of the state of the state, bellevue's in an interesting position, we're lucky here in Washington State. We're really, we're in an environment that the state is a leader on clean buildings from an energy efficiency and decarbonization perspective.
But there's a lot of work to be done at the local level. We have over 800 buildings, uh, [00:06:00] commercial buildings that are covered by the state clean buildings law. And we're really positioned as a local government to work best with local organizations and building owners and operators to understand what's required of them by the state, but to do the bigger picture work of making their buildings higher performing, energy efficient, and ready to comply with what's required of them.
And
Jeff: let's maybe break down those 800 buildings. How would you categorize those today?
Patrick: Yeah, there's a couple of ways to think about them. Um. Geographically use type and how they're covered by the state Clean buildings law. Um, first I'll, I'll speak to sort of the, the state's legal requirements on them. We have about 600 plus buildings in the tier one section of the Clean Buildings law.
These are the larger buildings, 50,000 square feet and greater, and they have performance requirements on them to ensure that they're meeting a baseline of energy efficiency. We also have an additional 200 or so buildings under what the state considers tier two, which down the road are expected per the state legislature to have energy efficiency performance requirements, but at this stage, only have to report on their energy use.
That's key to how we wanna support building owners and operators with Bellevue's program. But there are other ways to think about it as well. Uh, Bellevue has. Rapidly growing, uh, neighborhood centers for the most part, though, our covered buildings are concentrated in our downtown area. We're lucky in some ways that somewhere between about a third and a half of our buildings are already compliant with state requirements.
Bellevue has a relatively young building stock as a community that's developed really hugely since just the 1950s. Um, so we're in a different position than some old large cities like our neighbors over in Seattle. On the flip [00:08:00] side. There's really a great deal of complexity. I think, as you all know, in the building sector, buildings have so many different sizes, designs and use types, and making sure that the systems that make up a building are performing to meet the needs of that facility is another question in itself.
Jeff: What has surprised you coming from New York to Bellevue and kind of getting up to speed, you know, with this particular community and, and the buildings and the challenge? Like what do you find interesting as you've kind of gotten up to speed? Yeah, that's an
Patrick: interesting question. There's certainly a lot of commonalities, so maybe I'll start there.
You know, I think in all cases where we're requiring more of our existing buildings, the work is pretty challenging. Building owners, they're not sitting on the resources to make these upgrades necessarily, and so that's part of the challenge with getting our buildings to the next stage of performance and the next stage of their useful life.
On the flip side, I think our state is pretty well resourced. New York is certainly. A well-resourced state, but Washington State has set aside significant incentive dollars to support buildings that are well above their sort of energy use benchmark. Basically, the state categorizes them by energy, use intensity targets by use type.
And so buildings that are relatively lower performing or under-resourced can access state or utility incentives.
Jeff: So what would you say from your perspective is the biggest challenge, especially around commercial buildings?
Patrick: Yeah, I think probably the biggest challenge comes down to resourcing, which I covered, and really just the capacity of owners and operators.
The operators might be property management firms and, and teams of staff, but it might be individual engineers or or building energy analyst types that are responsible to keep things running. A lot of the [00:10:00] time those building teams are under-resourced. There's turnover within that sector for sure. And there's a lot of demands on their time.
And so understanding what is still a relatively new law, certainly it was adopted in 2019 with adjustments and expansions in recent years, but um, it's sort of just another demand on a sector that already has a lot of work on its plate.
Jeff: So Patrick, tell me about the Clean Buildings Incentive Program.
What is that?
Patrick: So, in sort of the technical term, it's a clean buildings accelerator. You may have heard that term before. And there are a number around Washington state in the country. Essentially, what our program does and and these programs do is we help. Building owners and the folks that operate them on their behalf to understand laws or legal requirements facing their buildings, but also more generally, how to get more out of their buildings and get toward a higher performing building.
Helping extend the useful life of that facility. And so in our case, with the Clean Buildings Performance Standard of Washington State, it's our goal to help these operators understand the law, understand how their buildings performing by benchmarking its energy, use against buildings of similar sizes and use types, and really set out some potential pathways to make upgrades and prepare for compliance.
Jeff: That's one of the things I've encountered not only is, you know, the resources to do the work in existing buildings to make them more efficient, but it, it really is the education piece. What makes existing buildings so tough when you have, you know, a building owner who doesn't occupy the space, right. The.
The folks that own their buildings are built in incentive, you know, to, to be efficient, right? With their energy usage. But because of triple net leases, it's when you have the tenant that [00:12:00] pays the utility and the building owner, right, that owns the asset. That's, I think the, the thing that makes existing buildings so difficult.
But there's kind of the, the tenants, right? And tenant education. I think I'm hearing tenants. As they're getting asked about their impact in terms of climate change, they're starting to ask more detailed questions. How do you guys think about that? Trying to educate, maybe not just building owners and operators, but the tenants or maybe the public at large.
Patrick: Yeah, that's right, Jeff. That's a real challenge. Um, and it, it really depends on building use type, what those tenants even can look like. That is a part of our program. And so besides helping operators sort of learn the law and, and understand their building's performance and maybe the business case for some sort of action, a part of low and no cost investments is tenant behavior and really just getting, um.
Better results out of the building systems as they are, as you might upgrade them, and, and getting toward that full potential. And that might look like working with a multifamily building owner and operator to educate their renters on. How they should set their heat pumps, for example, in units and to be thoughtful about really, really cold days and really, really hot days and, and basically how they treat their unit.
On the flip side, you've also got things like office parks or shopping plazas that can have a, a mix of tenants and the behaviors may be vary in those cases. I'd be fascinated
Jeff: to know, like what is a day in the life of Patrick like? Are you meeting with, with building owners? Is it other like policymakers?
Is it like staring at spreadsheets all day long? Like what is a day in the life like?
Patrick: Yeah, it's a good question. It's a little bit of all the above. Um, we do contract out our program with an ESCO and energy service company, and we rely on other partners working in this space. To do some of that work for us.
And so for example, we work with [00:14:00] Bellevue 2030 district and our esco, uh, to essentially reach out to building owners and operators, try to develop a relationship with a client and understand our audience's needs, essentially. From there, we provide some basic training and education, and we, we see if they're ready to take our services forward.
I'd say the, the major gateway into the program and, and the major service of our program is the Building Energy Benchmark, and so that's one of the key services. On the flip side to your question, um, I do perform some direct outreach to owners and operators, and certainly there's a piece of program tracking, getting into the weeds of available utility energy data to understand basically the commercial building sector in Bellevue as a whole.
Jeff: Fascinating. Let's talk a little bit about. Opportunities you see, or additional solutions, if you could wave your magic wand and kind of make something easier or like speed something along, what, what would that be?
Patrick: Yeah, that's, uh, that's really the million dollar question and um, I think that there's sort of a different answer depending on the audience we're thinking about.
So I don't want to put this. Too hard on any one actor in this space, but I would say if I could ask anything of our clientele, our building owners and operators, it would be. Really to, to pick up the phone or, or open their laptop and, and start a phone call. Send an email my way. It's really critical to start the work sooner rather than later, depending on how a building is performing and how it's considered by state law.
Again, tier one or tier two, there are, um, not just reporting, but in some cases performance requirement deadlines as early as mid 2026, and I think. One of the major takeaways and challenges is that this work, you know, it can be done in several weeks if all you have to do is benchmark your building's [00:16:00] energy, use and report to Department of Commerce, how it's doing.
Um, on the flip side, if your building is tier one and it has some adjustments to make. Bigger or smaller, that can be multi-month and sometimes multi-year work. So I don't wanna cause any great stress, um, for anybody who might be listening, but larger upgrades and retrofits to bring, uh, energy performance way down into compliance can be easily an 18 month process or longer.
It really depends.
Jeff: Yeah. And I, I think the, the main message or the thing I've learned is that if you're waiting until you get the notice in the mail, it's, yeah, you're, you're probably, uh, you're waiting a little too long and if you start the journey, it's actually, I think it's actually easier than people think.
And certainly the, it, it starts with the building benchmark. You have to assess where you are. And if there is a delta or a gap, right? If you're 15 points above target, there's a lot of things you can do to potentially, you know, get closer to your target. And if you're over target, yeah, you're, you're, you've gotta kind of figure out strategically, you know, how to budget for this.
And there are a lot of things that can assist folks, but yeah, if you wait till the end, you're gonna be in trouble.
Patrick: I think that's exactly right and it, it really can be relatively painless. And I, I really want to emphasize low cost, no cost to get the work started. First off, through our program and similar accelerator programs such as out of Puget Sound Energy or you know, outside Bellevue in Seattle, for example, uh, you can get the benchmarking done for free.
We offer that for free, for all covered buildings. Again, that's, that's sort of like a health checkup with your doctor. You understand how the building or portfolio of buildings is doing, and you get a sense of how's it performing seasonally across 12 months, 12 recent months based on utility data and [00:18:00] some other really simple inputs.
And we take this off your plate, we take this off an operator's plate and we get it done. So it, it sort of, um, reduces the headaches and again, it's no charge. And from there. We can sort of give a lay of the land BA based on the building's use type, its size, its tiering, and the state law setup, we can understand, okay, are we looking at no or low cost improvements?
That can be really, really simple and painless. It can be operations and maintenance stuff. It can be lightings controls, it can be, um, switching to LEDs, uh, small stuff. And on the flip side, if the work is a bit harder, and this is a minority of cases. It's sort of best to know there's a problem sooner rather than later.
Right? Yeah. And I, I know that that's scary, but it's, it's best to know if significant upgrades or retrofits might be needed and what might be available, whether that's utility incentives, state dollars, or we're helping you go after a financing package, uh, or a grant.
Jeff: Let's maybe switch gears and talk about, actually a couple specific examples of where you've found success.
Could you maybe share an example or two?
Patrick: Yeah, sure. I'd love to jump in here. Um, first I think I'd want to emphasize that, you know, this is not just, um, a state requirement facing. Businesses. Um, the city of Bellevue has a couple of buildings covered by the state Clean Buildings law, and we're actually working on a, uh, multimillion dollar investment to extend really the performance and useful life of our Bellevue Service Center.
And so. We've benchmarked it already. Um, we understand what its compliance deadline is, and we've spelled out various energy efficiency or energy conservation measures that we've essentially itemized attached timelines to. We understand the cost and simple payback, um, estimates for, and we've made the case internally to begin making those investments and [00:20:00] upgrades to get into compliance.
And so. For those really in the weeds of this work, um, we're expecting basically a a 30 point, um, reduction in energy use intensity, um, which is Wow. Really pretty major. Yeah. So we do qualify for, um, state incentives because we're 15 points or more above the energy use intensity target.
Jeff: Yeah, that's a, that's a great example of how the city's leading the way.
Maybe do you, you have, um, another commercial example, so
Patrick: while I can't name names exactly. We have worked with basically a major, um, hotel manager in Bellevue City Limits that has a. Over 300,000 square foot hotel. And, uh, we benchmarked their building. We gave them a basic sense of what energy efficiency measures might be available to them.
And we did help them pursue, um, some incentives and so we were able to identify over a hundred thousand dollars in cost savings. They are looking into incentives still, and they are expecting. 20 point drop in energy use intensity. And so again, this is one that is eligible for state early adopter incentives.
And that's something that they're still seeking at this time. But based on some of the most common energy efficiency measures, um, they've got a path forward.
Jeff: It's cool to hear the ball is beginning to roll. I think, you know, sometimes change is hard. Any change of any kind, right? And so to hear, you know, real examples of folks that are digging in and what's the stat, 30% of all energy to buildings is wasted, right?
And I, I try to make the case that like, that's money, right? For somebody that's real money. And in the grand scheme that begins to add up. One of the things I'm curious about is I, I read a little bit about, um, le the legislation that is gonna require utilities to generate a hundred percent of their power from renewables or zero carbon resources by [00:22:00] 2045.
What are your thoughts on that?
Patrick: Right. I think you're referring to the Washington Clean Energy Transformation Act. Um, it's a recent law that requires electricity, utilities specifically to clean up their grid. And this is a, a really major resource and asset, um, in climate work and in buildings work where essentially.
If the electricity is clean and from renewable sources, if you can move more and more of your building systems onto electricity, your building is moving towards zero carbon. And so that's a major solution. When about 50% of our emissions community-wide here in Bellevue, um, does come from buildings and the energy that they use,
Jeff: how does that impact buildings?
Like what are your thoughts on that?
Patrick: Yeah, in practical terms, um. C a's existence makes it so, uh, buildings can focus on electrifying their systems like hvac for example, and push towards zero carbon, which is the direction the state is taking long term. Um, you can't get to net zero emissions statewide without decarbonizing buildings.
And so getting onto electricity and cleaning that electricity up, um, is essentially the strategic direction provided by the state and electricity. Is the key for buildings.
Jeff: Maybe Patrick, as we come to kind of the tail end here, talk about some of the key learnings or takeaways, uh, over your two years, or even just your career kind of focused in this space.
What have you learned? Yeah,
Patrick: thanks for that question, Jeff. Um, I think there are a number of key takeaways we've learned since running the program these past four years or so now. Um, and I'll, I'll just say I think these have really turned into FAQ. That we've seen across other accelerator programs and, and the state's own technical assistance with the law.
So I want to emphasize the value of this to, to listeners. Um, first, and I think I've said this before, it's important to start the work Now. [00:24:00] The initial work can be pretty painless and. No cost. We offer benchmarking and others offer benchmarking, um, to understand a building's health and performance. We also provide guidance on the resources available.
You know, we understand that we can't solve every problem. There can be in cases significant financial investments required to get a building onto a high performance track or to prepare to comply, um, with state requirements. But we know the resources out there and from utilities to. Energy service companies and, and other, um, technical service providers.
There's a lot of wherewithal in our region, especially in the greater Puget Sound region, um, to get this work done. And so it doesn't have to be expensive and it can really all be wrapped up and tied up with a bow in a couple of months. Um, but it's best to know sooner.
Jeff: One of the things that has impressed me honestly, is.
Oftentimes rules or laws get made and, and then it, you know, it's kind of like go figure it out. I think in this case, at the state level, but also at many municipality levels, there's a lot of folks that want to make this easy. That I think is very unique and people wanna see buildings building owner be successful.
Right. And given how material it is to greenhouse gas emission climate change, I mean it's uh, it's something we have to do. Right? That's right. It. It's not a nice to have. It's this is, this is a must have. It's not the only thing we have to do, but if we just kind of set buildings aside it, it makes everything else just that much more difficult.
So I'm super grateful that the City of Bellevue, I think, has played a really key leadership role and. Really done a very good job of balancing, you know, like, you know, what's best for the public good, but also like how do we continue to be a great place for business. So, um, I think you guys are, are really leading the way for how you [00:26:00] can balance both objectives.
Well, is there anything else that you think is important that you want people to know about kind of what you do or why this is important?
Patrick: Yeah, so I think buildings are one of those funny things that if everything is operating well, you don't really think about it. But whether I'm going to a doctor's appointment or going to a pharmacy or going to school or whatever it might be, there are really so many services that we depend on from buildings.
It's the places we, we live, we work, we get entertainment, and so on. Buildings have a long, long, useful life. Not something that people outside the sector think about. You know, a lot of our buildings probably have decades, maybe 40 years, maybe 70 years, um, of life left. And so if we wanna get more out of them, sometimes that requires taking a look at how they're doing and.
Smaller or bigger upgrades we might consider. And so, um, Bellevue really cares to focus on growth and, um, a good place to work and do business. And I think buildings are one of those special spaces where you can promote electric vehicle charging, you can promote, uh. A healthy, productive workforce, good places to live, entertainment, et cetera.
But on top of that, you can address climate change, which is sort of hanging out in the background and not necessarily a day-to-day focal point. So I'm excited about the work in that way. I think it's a lot of win-win opportunities and obviously it's chance for cost savings as well from a an owner operator perspective.
Jeff: Yeah, the, the stat that I think most people don't realize is 80% of the buildings that are gonna exist in 2050 have already been built. Yeah. And so we have no choice. Yes, you know, we can change building code for new buildings, but 80% have already been built. So, uh, this is something we, you know, we've gotta, you know, make [00:28:00] headway and kind of tackle.
And so I'm so thankful that the city of Bellevue and, and again, Patrick, that your role exists and for the work that you do and appreciate you sharing it with, uh, with our audience that gets to kind of geek out in this space. And, uh, I think the main message is. The time to keep your head in the sand is over.
It is time to lift it up and get started on the journey. 'cause it's not as hard as you think, but if you just continue to wait, it gets harder. With that, thanks Patrick for joining. Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you.
It was great to learn more about a real city in my backyard and how they're approaching sustainability. I think the conversation with Patrick Babbitt offers three takeaways. The first is buildings equal half the problem and half the opportunity. In Bellevue. About half of our greenhouse gas emissions come from buildings.
That means if we wanna make real progress on climate change, buildings are imperative to address. The second is resources exist, but engagement is key. Washington has put serious resources on the table, state incentives, utility programs, and bellevue's own accelerator. The barrier isn't tools or funding.
It is just getting owners and operators to pick up the phone and get started. And finally the key is starting early and start small. Compliance deadlines are coming as soon as 2026. Free benchmarking and low no cost Improvements are available now, but bigger retrofits can take 18 plus months. So waiting until the last minute is both risky and cost.
And here's the reframe. If you only see compliance as a burden, you are missing the point. This is a chance to save real dollars, reduce emissions, extend building life, and create spaces people want to be in, all while keeping on the front foot of [00:30:00] climate and business leadership. My thanks to Jennifer Ewing, Patrick Babbitt, and the city of Bellevue for taking the time to educate me about their work.
Bellevue is a great example of a forward-thinking city that is making real strides against climate change. Thanks for listening. Until next time.
Announcer: Hey, quick reminder here. Don't forget to register for the Smart Building Exchange Fall Conference. It's an engaging half day event with happy hour included, November 5th at Seattle's Bell Harbor Conference Center.
Visit SBXConference.org for details and registration. Now let's get back to the credits and other show business.
You've been listening to Reframe, the show about building sustainability presented by Pilotlight. Opinions shared by the Reframe guests aren't necessarily the views of their companies. If you'd like to learn more about the podcast, the show's host, guests or topics, check out this episode's show notes, or visit pilotlight.ai/podcast.
Got a question for the Reframe team. Drop us a note at reframe@pilotlight.ai. The Reframe podcast features original music by Diaphonic, the show is produced by Robert Haskitt with Eric Opel and the show's host Jeff Nichols. Before you go, this would be a great place to hit pause in your podcast app and then hit that little plus sign up in the corner to follow the show. That way you'll never miss an episode.
Thanks for joining us.