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Join old friends and acclaimed artists, John Butler and Dingo Spender, for an intimate conversation delving into the creative process and narrative behind John's captivating new musical venture, 'Running River.' Settle in as they share anecdotes, inspirations, and the transformative journey that led to this ambient masterpiece. From the inception of melodies to the ethereal landscapes evoked through sound, explore the depths of artistic collaboration and musical exploration. Whether you're a long-time fan or a newcomer to Johns's work, this episode offers a rare glimpse into the heart and soul of his journey through new sonic territories.
Speaker 1: Hello, dear friends, this is John Butler
Speaker 1: and you're about to listen to a podcast
Speaker 1: called Running the River.
Speaker 1: This is a new podcast that I have put
Speaker 1: together with my dear friend Dingo Spender.
Speaker 1: He, you may recall, helped me with the last
Speaker 1: podcast I made for my album Home.
Speaker 1: Here again we deconstruct and get under the
Speaker 1: skin and get our hands dirty in the
Speaker 1: substrate soil of what I was envisioning
Speaker 1: for this latest ambient album.
Speaker 1: This is an album I made for wellness
Speaker 1: practitioners and practicers alike to
Speaker 1: defrag and decompress in this very busy,
Speaker 1: fast and quick world, and we hope you enjoy
Speaker 1: as we take you up, down and across the
Speaker 1: river.
Speaker 1: This is Running the River.
Speaker 1: Firstly it was for me.
Speaker 1: Firstly it was for to explore things and
Speaker 1: make things less complex, slow down in BPM
Speaker 1: and slow down sonically and physically, and
Speaker 1: for that it did its job.
Speaker 1: Slow down sonically and physically, you
Speaker 1: know.
Speaker 1: And for that it did its job, you know, as I
Speaker 1: said before, making these 10-minute songs
Speaker 1: and listening back to them, falling asleep,
Speaker 1: listening back to them, it's like okay,
Speaker 1: it's doing what I want it to do, which is
Speaker 1: like really calming the nervous system.
Speaker 1: I'm sure many listeners listening to this
Speaker 1: who practice a form of mindfulness or
Speaker 1: meditation, you will often experience
Speaker 1: falling asleep in the practice because the
Speaker 1: nervous system is like, oh, really cool, oh
Speaker 1: cool, thank you, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, before we get into any
Speaker 1: kind of transcendental uh, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, uh mindsets, let's talk about my
Speaker 1: sleep debt, my nervous, my service, my
Speaker 1: nervous system recouping, you know.
Speaker 1: So, um, yeah first of all, it was a vehicle
Speaker 1: for that which music always has been a
Speaker 1: vehicle to meet myself, and that was this
Speaker 1: one was very a concerted and like
Speaker 1: concentrated effort to do something in
Speaker 1: particular which was essentially to be part
Speaker 1: of a soundtrack for modalities to heal
Speaker 1: people, to be what somebody listened to
Speaker 1: when they're getting a massage or remedial
Speaker 1: work or Reiki or acupuncture or kinesiology,
Speaker 1: or getting some osteopathy done,
Speaker 1: chiropractic done, doing Shavasana, doing
Speaker 1: your breathing exercise, but also, you know,
Speaker 1: to put your kids to sleep too, to just
Speaker 1: chill out.
Speaker 1: When you're like on a plane and the
Speaker 1: industrial noise of it's really intense and
Speaker 1: you just need to put on the best headphones
Speaker 1: you could possibly get a hold of and get
Speaker 1: rid of that noise, it's like, hey, if
Speaker 1: you're like you know, doing the harvest in
Speaker 1: a bloody big machine, oh yeah, put it on,
Speaker 1: chill out.
Speaker 1: You know anything to bring down, bring down
Speaker 1: the heartbeat a little bit and just bring
Speaker 1: down the nervous system.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's for people who want to do, I
Speaker 1: don't know, sweat ceremonies or something
Speaker 1: to concentrate when you're doing your ice
Speaker 1: bath, or it may be something that you do
Speaker 1: when you're on, you know, a plant medicine
Speaker 1: journey.
Speaker 1: You know all these things were on my mind
Speaker 1: when I was playing, like you know.
Speaker 1: Essentially, you know, a lot of what I do
Speaker 1: instrumentally is, you know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like journey music and so, yeah, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be able to be a soundtrack to those
Speaker 1: things in an unobtrusive way, if, if
Speaker 1: possible, you know, like to still allow the
Speaker 1: space for the self to be in and not be like,
Speaker 1: hey, look at me, over here I'm doing this
Speaker 1: clever thing on guitar and, oh, I said that
Speaker 1: awesome prose and well, and we did this
Speaker 1: cool thing with a time signature and then,
Speaker 1: surprise, you know, it was like the
Speaker 1: opposite of all that.
Speaker 1: Not that I make music that way, but we do.
Speaker 1: Hey, we could like drop it for four bars
Speaker 1: and then we'll bring all the instruments
Speaker 1: back and then, you know, but it would be
Speaker 1: like 6-8 instead of 4-4, but we'll play the
Speaker 1: 6-8 over the 4-4.
Speaker 1: So it's not really like none of that.
Speaker 1: So, and thank you, yeah, for just that
Speaker 1: alone, just like Not doing that.
Speaker 2: Making that choice not to do that.
Speaker 2: I mean, we do love it when you do that as
Speaker 2: well.
Speaker 2: So just for taking a risk here.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Going somewhere new.
Speaker 1: You know, for palliative care wards, for,
Speaker 1: yeah, just anywhere where it could just
Speaker 1: breathe a bit of sonic soothing.
Speaker 1: You know, that's who I made it for.
Speaker 1: And that's why you know it is pretty water
Speaker 1: go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything from putting your kids the
Speaker 1: kids to bed, get a massage or taking a
Speaker 1: magic mushroom trip.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is actually for any and all the
Speaker 1: above.
Speaker 2: It depending on how it suits you, and
Speaker 2: that's all the above is a pretty amazing,
Speaker 2: like potential experiment putting kids to
Speaker 2: bed on munging mushrooms.
Speaker 2: What else was the third one, getting a
Speaker 2: massage.
Speaker 2: Getting a massage like yes that sounds good.
Speaker 1: I think it's.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe not all at once, but there's
Speaker 1: an order like put the kids to bed.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1: I mean, for me it was.
Speaker 1: I was just using ambient music as a tool,
Speaker 1: as I said, to get over literally the
Speaker 1: industrial noise of the city, but also
Speaker 1: sometimes I'm using it because I need to
Speaker 1: actually work and I'm working in a loud
Speaker 1: environment.
Speaker 1: I'm overseas somewhere, I'm at a cafe, I'm
Speaker 1: at somewhere that has decent internet, I'm
Speaker 1: backstage, there's people talking.
Speaker 1: It's a workplace and the way my attention
Speaker 1: works.
Speaker 1: If somebody's nearby and talking a little
Speaker 1: too loud and they're saying something
Speaker 1: that's semi kind of audible, my mind will
Speaker 1: just like I don't want to listen to you.
Speaker 1: I'm meant to be doing this email, but I'm
Speaker 1: like ah, yeah, um you know it's music for
Speaker 1: that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's music to calmly work to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and music you know I can't listen to
Speaker 1: like very busy music and and work.
Speaker 1: I'm like sick.
Speaker 1: I'm just like jamming with timberland or
Speaker 1: pharrell.
Speaker 1: I'm like what am I typing?
Speaker 1: Oh, I can't even understand what I'm typing.
Speaker 1: I've like this I mean there's no auto
Speaker 1: correct on that could possibly work out
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1: So music for all of that, you know, all of
Speaker 1: that kind of just space.
Speaker 1: I feel fried by the world at times, just
Speaker 1: absolutely fried by it, and that's like
Speaker 1: from my privileged position you know um
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, I think the nature of the job is
Speaker 1: done a bit of extra work on the nervous
Speaker 1: system, you know yeah yeah, just being on
Speaker 1: stage every night, having to flip that
Speaker 1: switch and with my, my chest cavity open to
Speaker 1: show everybody my beating heart to a bunch
Speaker 1: of people who I don't know the the nature
Speaker 1: of how it seems to be.
Speaker 1: In this world of social media it's so much
Speaker 1: easier to be mean than to be kind and what
Speaker 1: that's doing to like people's sense of
Speaker 1: safety in the world and just like you know
Speaker 1: that that's just lurking in the background
Speaker 1: at all times, the phone that's on at all
Speaker 1: times, all those things like the phone
Speaker 1: being on at all times.
Speaker 1: I better keep my phone on me.
Speaker 1: Something might happen that's right.
Speaker 1: Something might need.
Speaker 1: That wasn't around 30 years ago.
Speaker 1: That was that did not exist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like you found out later they
Speaker 1: left a message, yeah, and he was just like
Speaker 1: shit.
Speaker 1: So I just found out.
Speaker 1: Are you okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, nine times out of ten they were yeah.
Speaker 1: But now we have this thing that we carry in
Speaker 1: our pocket that's connected to the whole
Speaker 1: world, uh, and, and behind it all, there's
Speaker 1: for me, there's this looming uh, what what
Speaker 1: if somebody dies?
Speaker 1: Essentially, what if somebody gets
Speaker 1: catastrophically hurt and they need to get
Speaker 1: a hold of you right now?
Speaker 1: That's like the why you carry it.
Speaker 1: That's embedded in the hardware of our
Speaker 1: minds and that fries the fuck out of people,
Speaker 1: yeah, not to mention the propensity,
Speaker 1: through the mediums, to just like fucking
Speaker 1: be a dick, to say things you'd never say
Speaker 1: out in nature to people in front of them,
Speaker 1: yeah, or in a room of people.
Speaker 2: Like you just couldn't say that without
Speaker 2: being attacked or like shut down by someone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the propensity to just not be nice,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I think that's all those things
Speaker 1: apart from what's happening.
Speaker 1: God everywhere you know, everywhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, whether it's what's happening in
Speaker 1: the Middle East right now, whether it's
Speaker 1: what's happening in the middle east right
Speaker 1: now heartbreaking, wrenching, soul tearing,
Speaker 1: whack, social, like the cognitive
Speaker 1: dissonance of just watching and not you
Speaker 1: know, uh, or the climate, you know thing
Speaker 1: that's constantly unfolding, or ukraine, or
Speaker 1: the conga, or the you know the mineral
Speaker 1: sands that we're all part of, that we're
Speaker 1: using right now to make this the absolute
Speaker 1: irony and hypocrisy of what it means to be
Speaker 1: a human in the world and all that static.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make something that felt
Speaker 1: good to listen to, that was just maybe in
Speaker 1: the opposite direction from the 30-second
Speaker 1: TikTok, 30-second attention span and
Speaker 1: believe me, I scroll.
Speaker 1: There's great things I see online.
Speaker 1: I think we're doing amazing things.
Speaker 1: You know, it depends on where we want to
Speaker 1: look, what we choose to focus on.
Speaker 1: Whatever you put your wood, whatever fire
Speaker 1: you put your wood on, that fire will get
Speaker 1: bigger.
Speaker 1: I do know that, but I need that little bit
Speaker 1: of like space from it all, and so if I'm
Speaker 1: going to interact with this device that is
Speaker 1: extremely has as much potential for good as
Speaker 1: it does bad.
Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure there's a playlist
Speaker 1: somewhere that might just help me for a
Speaker 1: second.
Speaker 1: Give me a little bit of scaffolding to just
Speaker 1: breathe, literally just breathe.
Speaker 1: See if we can actually breathe into our
Speaker 1: belly, into our upper lungs, into our
Speaker 1: thoracics.
Speaker 1: Hold breathe out, hold breathe in.
Speaker 1: See if you can do that five times without
Speaker 1: going.
Speaker 1: Oh, I actually have to do something or
Speaker 1: check something on your phone or
Speaker 1: something's happening, like.
Speaker 1: If you can do that five times without going,
Speaker 1: oh, I actually have to do something, or
Speaker 1: check something on your phone or
Speaker 1: something's happening Like, can I just do
Speaker 1: that five times?
Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, let alone anything else.
Speaker 1: Can I just do that five?
Speaker 1: And if a bit of music can help with that,
Speaker 1: that's where I want to live.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah so I think you must have
Speaker 2: just been just finished the recording you
Speaker 2: hadn't mixed the album yet and we had a
Speaker 2: chat I can't remember.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you rang me out of the blue and I was
Speaker 2: like what's going on?
Speaker 2: You're like I've just recorded this thing
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm looking into ways of delivering
Speaker 2: it, because I've had a few people around me
Speaker 2: talk about that this could actually be
Speaker 2: delivered in like an app, skinned in an app
Speaker 2: where it could be.
Speaker 2: People could choose the, the blend of the
Speaker 2: certain elements, yeah, um, and change the
Speaker 2: volume of them or the pitch of them or the
Speaker 2: duration of them, or kind of customize, to
Speaker 2: you know, make it a more practical way of
Speaker 2: using music, as, as we're all starting to
Speaker 2: get aware of, like a lot of apps allow you
Speaker 2: to do some pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, customize, customizable sound and
Speaker 2: experiences.
Speaker 2: So how did that end up going?
Speaker 2: Like, where did where did you get?
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: I actually the.
Speaker 1: The idea was actually birthed by um, a crew
Speaker 1: member who was like you should make this
Speaker 1: into an app.
Speaker 1: That I, you know, I was telling about the
Speaker 1: ambient, you should make it into an app.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh really, yeah, I mean oh
Speaker 1: yeah, and.
Speaker 1: And then, you know, he planted that seed
Speaker 1: and then I went away and kind of came up
Speaker 1: with this idea of like nothing it's not,
Speaker 1: it's not a new idea.
Speaker 1: But the idea was basically break you know,
Speaker 1: this album up into like four tracks max and
Speaker 1: that you could control those.
Speaker 1: You know the guitars.
Speaker 1: The guitars would be one thing, the
Speaker 1: heartbeat beat guitar would be another
Speaker 1: thing, the I don't know another element,
Speaker 1: the harmonic bed or whatever, could be
Speaker 1: another track.
Speaker 1: And then the idea was you could slow it
Speaker 1: down and you could reverse things and you
Speaker 1: could mute things, because one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things is slow down backwards
Speaker 1: guitar.
Speaker 1: It's by far one of my favorite things is
Speaker 1: slowed down backwards guitar.
Speaker 1: It's like by far one of my favorite things
Speaker 1: in the world.
Speaker 1: So if I could have that with the sun
Speaker 1: reflecting sun reflection on the tree
Speaker 1: canopy.
Speaker 1: That's my form of a good time, and so that
Speaker 1: was the idea.
Speaker 1: It was like creating this mini kind of
Speaker 1: garage band thing that you could, you know,
Speaker 1: and that it would have like a visual
Speaker 1: wallpaper to it.
Speaker 1: And we looked into it and they said, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a great idea.
Speaker 1: It's probably going to cost, you know, over
Speaker 1: $100,000 to make.
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, cool, well, I wasn't
Speaker 1: looking to make any money really off the
Speaker 1: app, I just wanted the app to be something
Speaker 1: Just help customize and curate their own
Speaker 1: kind of practice, wellness practice.
Speaker 1: And that was inspired kind of by, you know,
Speaker 1: and this is not sponsored by Sleepstream,
Speaker 1: but Sleepstream was an app I was using to
Speaker 1: help me sleep or meditate with, and there
Speaker 1: are all these different things, like you
Speaker 1: know, the different backgrounds.
Speaker 1: You could have 10-minute, you know,
Speaker 1: 20-minute sessions from stress to relax,
Speaker 1: stress to energize.
Speaker 1: You had ones for attention stuff, anxiety
Speaker 1: stuff, meditation, sleep.
Speaker 1: You know you could put these different
Speaker 1: backgrounds and, you know, change the
Speaker 1: pitches and it was customized.
Speaker 1: I didn't like that and so I thought, oh, I
Speaker 1: can do that with the music.
Speaker 1: It just couldn't.
Speaker 1: It could happen.
Speaker 1: It was just very work intensive and not
Speaker 1: something I really wanted to invest in.
Speaker 1: I think if I was maybe a little bit more
Speaker 1: lucrative, I could just put money into
Speaker 1: something that didn't show any kind of
Speaker 1: return and didn't have to worry about being
Speaker 1: at all sustainable.
Speaker 1: Then maybe I would have.
Speaker 1: But, um, so the next idea was cool, let's,
Speaker 1: let's, you know, let's, make a visual
Speaker 1: component to it that we can put on youtube
Speaker 1: that can be kind of played in a playlist,
Speaker 1: either a playlist of the album or
Speaker 1: playlisted to other playlists, you know,
Speaker 1: and also just get it off some of the
Speaker 1: streaming surfaces that just are completely
Speaker 1: reaming the music industry, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: and it's just a huge rot and also, at the
Speaker 1: same time, if we're not on them, then we
Speaker 1: just don't have any access to anybody's
Speaker 1: ears, uh, so, like, get onto youtube where
Speaker 1: you might get paid a little bit more, that
Speaker 1: you actually could make this venture pay
Speaker 1: for itself, you know, but also just be
Speaker 1: there.
Speaker 1: It can get onto screens, uh, and be at
Speaker 1: centers, wellness centers, and just have a
Speaker 1: visual component to it.
Speaker 1: But it's actually spawned from wanting to
Speaker 1: be an app first, because I go, you know,
Speaker 1: when I've gone into places, you know,
Speaker 1: there's often, often this big screen on the,
Speaker 1: on the, on the wall and it's usually
Speaker 1: playing some kind of thing with some
Speaker 1: ambient music youtube playlist and I was
Speaker 1: like I want to get into on that, like I
Speaker 1: want, I want some visuals with it, so
Speaker 1: interesting.
Speaker 1: One is just like incense in slow motion.
Speaker 1: I love looking at slow moving things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to go with slow moving music.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to get like sensory, some
Speaker 1: sensory slowing down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's.
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of why the incense or
Speaker 1: the smudging or the smoking or or the, the
Speaker 1: heartbeat or the rhythm or the clapping or
Speaker 1: the sticks, they are sensory locators and
Speaker 1: indicators that we've been doing for a very
Speaker 1: long time and they do, like, have this,
Speaker 1: like the somewhere in the primordial,
Speaker 1: reptilian or other parts for our nervous
Speaker 1: system that like, oh, yeah, I know what's
Speaker 1: going on here.
Speaker 1: I know what this is yeah, so yeah, the
Speaker 1: visual component was like something I've
Speaker 1: been looking right into.
Speaker 1: Like you know, put the album on and go to
Speaker 1: like fractal kaleidoscopes.
Speaker 1: You know like, okay, that's a little bit
Speaker 1: techno, that one's kind of cool.
Speaker 1: Oh, after a while, when you watch, it
Speaker 1: starts really clocking into the music and
Speaker 1: like going, this is sick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it will seem super cliched and a
Speaker 1: little bit psychedelic, but actually
Speaker 1: watching, watching some of those ancient
Speaker 1: shapes with music, is extremely therapeutic
Speaker 1: and calming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, mm the why and the who,
Speaker 1: for never had like cool, I hope this is.
Speaker 1: Like, I think, with a lot of the things
Speaker 1: you're like I hope this is successful, or
Speaker 1: like I hope it can get played somewhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, or I mean, yeah, I hope this is
Speaker 1: successful, I hope it gets played somewhere
Speaker 1: somewhere.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I hope this is successful, I
Speaker 1: hope it gets played somewhere.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I'm not wanting it.
Speaker 1: I know it's not a money-making venture,
Speaker 1: it's you know.
Speaker 1: It's just I just hope for those who want if
Speaker 1: it makes it into their life in some way.
Speaker 1: Like the songs that have gotten onto my
Speaker 1: playlist, that have come in from other
Speaker 1: playlists have been recommended or whatever,
Speaker 1: like, um, yeah, I love them and I just hope
Speaker 1: that it could kind of be out there in the
Speaker 1: world for them.
Speaker 1: Um, and I, I kind of trust that, as slow as
Speaker 1: the music is and as slow time as I'm, their
Speaker 1: intention is that, slowly but surely, the
Speaker 1: music will find where it needs to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of going like further into the
Speaker 1: visual thing, like, uh, yeah, there's.
Speaker 1: You know, one of my favorite things in life,
Speaker 1: like one of my utmost favorite things of
Speaker 1: all time, is watching the sun.
Speaker 1: I grew up in river country in Pinjara,
Speaker 1: western Australia, even though it doesn't
Speaker 1: sound like it, but I'm drawn to rivers and
Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons why this album is
Speaker 1: called Running River.
Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons why I've taken the
Speaker 1: album cover is the river I grew up on.
Speaker 1: When my dad moved back to Australia, where
Speaker 1: he's from, after my parents got divorced,
Speaker 1: he was looking for a house for us.
Speaker 1: I said find a place with a river in the
Speaker 1: backyard.
Speaker 1: Jokingly serious, I was nine, 10 years old.
Speaker 1: He actually found a place in Pinjarra,
Speaker 1: western Australia, on the river, because it
Speaker 1: was the cheapest place actually he could
Speaker 1: afford, you know.
Speaker 1: And I grew up on that river.
Speaker 1: And I grew up on that river and 20 years
Speaker 1: later found out that my
Speaker 1: great-great-grandfather was buried in an
Speaker 1: unmarked grave in that town and that we
Speaker 1: were like salmon swimming back upstream to
Speaker 1: that river.
Speaker 1: And but my favorite thing, having grown up
Speaker 1: on that river and living now on Wujudapbila,
Speaker 1: which is the Margaret River, is the sun
Speaker 1: hitting the water surface and reflecting
Speaker 1: onto trees that are overhanging the billows
Speaker 1: and the water holes in the rivers, and that
Speaker 1: shimmering kind of thing that happens in
Speaker 1: the canopy of trees is my favorite thing.
Speaker 1: And so I was like I need, I want and I
Speaker 1: watch it, and it's like I.
Speaker 1: And so I was like I need, I want and I
Speaker 1: watch it, and it's like I'm giving having
Speaker 1: an eye massage, but I'm also like it's
Speaker 1: going into whatever nervous system stuff
Speaker 1: and just like it's the absolute opposite
Speaker 1: from doom scrolling.
Speaker 1: It's the opposite for me.
Speaker 1: And so I was like I want this music that,
Speaker 1: hopefully, is the opposite to a jackhammer,
Speaker 1: yeah, to be.
Speaker 1: I want it to be coupled with this visual
Speaker 1: that's the opposite to doom scrolling and
Speaker 1: to ultraviolence and staccato angular
Speaker 1: visuals.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, we kind of made this kind of
Speaker 1: I wanted every song to have a video, which
Speaker 1: never really happens, but so they could be
Speaker 1: a part of a playlist at a center or a
Speaker 1: practitioner's residence, where they may
Speaker 1: have a screen in the waiting room or
Speaker 1: something, and that you can have the album
Speaker 1: and this visual taking place at the same
Speaker 1: time and so explain all kinds of different
Speaker 1: organic kind of shapes and visuals that can
Speaker 1: be coupled with the music that you can kind
Speaker 1: of stare at and and just especially as I,
Speaker 1: actually has a little bit of a medium hack
Speaker 1: as well, like we're so you know, generally
Speaker 1: speaking, we are.
Speaker 1: So our lives are intertwined with screens
Speaker 1: everywhere and for me it's like the visual
Speaker 1: component is obviously, yeah, yeah, to give
Speaker 1: you a visual healing and a sensory healing,
Speaker 1: but it's also like you're going to be
Speaker 1: looking at this puppy.
Speaker 1: Anyways, I bet I want to see, I'll
Speaker 1: infiltrate it, see if I can infiltrate this
Speaker 1: thing with a bit of your love of music and
Speaker 1: your love of looking at things you know,
Speaker 1: and and see if I can couple them together
Speaker 1: and so, yeah, that's kind of how that whole
Speaker 1: visual thing has kind of come about and, um,
Speaker 1: it's been, it's been super fun to watch.
Speaker 1: I think there's one whole video that's just
Speaker 1: like, uh, acrylic and oil paints being
Speaker 1: mixed together slowly and how they respond
Speaker 1: to each other.
Speaker 2: And just you know all kinds of you know
Speaker 2: time it sort of feels to me also, it's like
Speaker 2: a um, when I put on ambient music and I'm
Speaker 2: imagining when I put on this, it's like
Speaker 2: lighting a stick of incense in your house.
Speaker 2: And you know, when you light that stick of
Speaker 2: incense it's like you watch that smoke kind
Speaker 2: of slowly curl up into the air and then
Speaker 2: suddenly it's created a new space from what
Speaker 2: was it was before, which was a house.
Speaker 2: Suddenly it's like, oh, it feels like it's
Speaker 2: got a smell and there's something
Speaker 2: ceremonial happening or there's something I
Speaker 2: can pause now.
Speaker 2: So it's sort of like yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: lighting a musical stick of incense or the
Speaker 2: house, and it just kind of creates this
Speaker 2: like I'm still in my living room, where I'm
Speaker 2: still in my living room where I was just
Speaker 2: having that really stressy phone call with
Speaker 2: my landlord, but now I'm gonna lie a stick
Speaker 2: of incense musically and for the next 30
Speaker 2: minutes yeah it's changed everything yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you need to like spray some
Speaker 1: hardcore air freshener because, yeah, the
Speaker 1: place is reeking, or you need to like you
Speaker 1: know you need sorry, I have to use some
Speaker 1: pretty gnarly something, and every once in
Speaker 1: a while you need to just to have a little,
Speaker 1: a little bit of a little incense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, that's right, it's a reminder,
Speaker 2: yeah, the little reminders, and you're
Speaker 2: welcome for me offering you a right, you
Speaker 2: know, heading into a whole new range of
Speaker 2: offerings, potentially john butler incense
Speaker 2: yeah, it's funny like what I.
Speaker 1: It's a good segue um away from you know,
Speaker 1: your nonsensical kind of offering you.