Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

“Be as curious about the other person as you are excited to share about yourself.”
What makes you click with someone? For organizational psychologist and bestselling author Adam Grant, meaningful connection isn't just about chemistry. It's about understanding how we relate to others, showing genuine curiosity, and creating interactions that bring us closer. In part one of this two-part Think Fast, Talk Smart episode, Grant joins Matt Abrahams to discuss the science of connection and share lessons from his new book, Vibe: The Secrets of Strong Connections in a Lonely World. From building confidence through practice and seeking advice instead of feedback to finding common ground and creating more dynamic conversations, Grant shares practical ways to strengthen relationships and make our interactions more meaningful.

Takeaways:
  • Strong connections are built with intention. Understanding whether you're seeking shared goals, interests, or values helps you approach relationships more thoughtfully and build stronger connections.
  • Better conversations require curiosity and give-and-take. Showing genuine interest, keeping exchanges dynamic, and remembering personal details can turn everyday interactions into more meaningful, lasting relationships.

Activity:
  • Make a memory flex. After your next meaningful conversation, note one detail the other person shared. A few days later, follow up with a thoughtful message, recommendation, or question that shows you remembered and helps strengthen the connection.
Printable Expanded Takeaways & Activities

Episode Reference Links:
Connect:

 Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (01:03) - Overcoming Speaking Anxiety
  • (04:03) - Building Confidence
  • (05:28) - Expanding Your Comfort Zone
  • (08:17) - Learning Through Advice
  • (13:45) - Balancing Competence and Connection
  • (15:21) - The Science of Vibing
  • (16:53) - Building Connection Virtually
  • (18:52) - Three Types of Connection
  • (20:17) - Turn Connection Into Collaboration
  • (23:38) - The Final Three Questions
  • (30:34) - Conclusion

Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Adam Grant
Organizational Psychologist | Wharton Professor | Bestselling Author

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Monday and Thursday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our Newsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Our best relationships rely on connection,
the ability to vibe with somebody else.

My name's Matt Abrahams, and I
teach Strategic Communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast,
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I am super excited
to speak with Adam Grant.

Adam is an organizational psychologist and
top-rated professor at the Wharton School.

He has written several best-selling books
such as Think Again and Hidden Potential.

His latest book is Vibe: The Secrets of
Strong Connections in a Lonely World.

Beyond his academic research on
motivation and workplace dynamics,

he hosts the TED podcast, Rethinking.

It should be in everybody's queue.

Well, welcome Adam.

I have long admired your work and
have enjoyed my conversations with

many of your Wharton colleagues,
Katy Milkman, Angela Duckworth,

Wendy De La Rosa, and Jonah Berger.

It's really exciting for me
to meet you personally here.

Thank you.

Well, I'll try to live up to that.

Great to be here, Matt.

Thank you.

Shall we get started?

Bring it on.

All right.

I'd like to initiate a conversation
around public speaking and communication.

Uh, in your book, Hidden Potential, you
share the story of how you went from a

terrified to confident public speaker.

Can you share what that anxiety was like
for you, and how you successfully learned

to manage the anxiety to become a, a great
well-known and well-sought-after speaker?

Well, sharing the anxiety part is easy.

I have vivid memories of knowing that
I was gonna have to get up in front

of people and just shaking physically.

I could see my hands moving.

I couldn't control it, I was so jittery.

Usually, that was the first cue, actually,
is I would see it before I felt it.

And then I would notice
that my heart was racing.

It felt like it was gonna
beat right out of my chest.

I would, I would notice that my breathing
sort of, it would get fast and shallow,

like I'd just finished a sprint.

And not only was it making me
not wanna get up in front of an

audience, I didn't feel like I
could deliver a coherent sentence

because I couldn't catch my breath.

And I felt like the only way to
get through it, Matt, was just

to rehearse it so often that
my body had to get used to it.

Like, I wanted to put myself through
a form of, I guess, exposure therapy.

So the only thing I could think to
do was to put myself in a situation

where the stakes were both higher
and lower at the, at the same time.

So I was in grad school at the time, and
I knew I was gonna have to start teaching

my own classes, and I was terrified.

So I volunteered to give guest
lectures for my friends' classes.

And on the one hand, that was much
scarier because I only had a thirty

or sixty minute window to try to get
through to these students, and they were

gonna judge me just by that performance.

I didn't have then the rest of the
semester to recover if I stumbled or

if I sounded like I was Darth Vader
because I was breathing so heavily.

Uh, but on the other hand, these students
didn't have any real say over my future.

They weren't gonna hate my class
and tank my teaching evaluations and

undermine my ability to, to get a,
a lecturing job in the future or,

or a professorship in the future.

And so I thought, "Okay, this is the
perfect place to practice," because

I was under pressure, but at the end
of the day it didn't really matter.

And a few friends were
kind enough to, to say yes.

And after every guest lecture I gave out
feedback forms and I said, "Tell me what

you'd like to see repeated, and more
importantly, what I should change." And

some of the comments were not friendly.

I remember one of them said, "You're
so nervous you're causing us to

physically shake in our seats."
Only much later did I think, "Wow,

I have a form of telekinesis."

Not fun at the time.

And then there was a student who
wrote that I was so awkward on stage

that I reminded them of a Muppet.

And they never even told me which Muppet.

Maybe you can help me with that.

Yeah, I, yeah, I immediately
thought of Animal, the one who's

frenetic and always moving.

I could see that.

Uh, I was, I was thinking it
might be the, the Swedish Chef.

But, you know, something
really interesting happened,

Matt, as I went through this.

Not only did, did I stop having mild
panic attacks as I repeatedly got

in front of audiences, but I also
discovered that I had already put

myself in the worst case scenario.

Like, what, what is somebody gonna
say about my teaching that's worse

than, "Your anxiety is contagious,
and you remind me of a Muppet"?

And so I felt like at that
point I had nothing to lose.

And as I got a little bit less
uncomfortable, I started, you

know, cracking more jokes.

I started being a little bit
more spontaneous and responding

to the energy in the room.

And I had a better connection with
the audience, and the vibe improved,

and that built my confidence up.

And so I think what I learned from that
experience was, in the first semester

where I was afraid to get on any stage, I
felt like I needed to wait until I'd built

my confidence in order to take action.

And I realized I had that backward.

I needed to take the action in
order to build my confidence.

And it was, it was through doing the
reps, putting myself in that situation

where I did not wanna be there,
where I just felt the butterflies

constantly, that I ended up earning
the confidence to keep doing it.

Do it and then reflect on it, I think is
a, is a really powerful way to address

the fear of speaking in front of others.

And I really appreciate that idea
of finding situations that have high

stakes, but at the same time aren't so
critical that, that a bad performance

can lead to devastating consequences.

So it's really the exposure therapy
that helped you get through that.

But I also noticed a cognitive shift.

You, you got out of your head, and
you got into the room where you

were paying attention to what was
happening and responding to it.

A lot of nervous speakers are inside
their own head replaying what's

happening for them or they should
be saying or could've been saying,

instead of actually connecting outside.

I'll be curious when we talk about your
new book if, if this experience helped

you become curious about connecting
and, and the ways in which we can

connect and, and relate to others.

Two things that just jumped out at me.

One, I think the ideal stakes
for practice are stressful in

the moment but no lasting cost.

And so it feels like it might
be embarrassing in the present,

but you're not gonna carry
it with you into your future.

I think that's, that's the situation
in which you wanna practice

or dip your toe in the water.

And then, yeah, that, that experience
definitely got me curious about how

to form connection because I had all
these ideas I was passionate about.

I was excited to get to know my
students and build relationships

with, with them, but I didn't know
how to cross that bridge when it was

me with a, a sea of invisible faces.

And I think the, for me, the, the
intermediate step in that journey was then

to say, "Okay, I've now gotten comfortable
being uncomfortable, and I hope that,

you know, I'm, I'm not gonna change my
first nature," as Brian Little, one of

my favorite psychologists would call it.

I, I am an introvert physiologically.

I am shy, but I wanna
make this second nature.

I want to expand my comfort zone so
that this feels, yeah, it, it feels like

something I can do regularly and not
freak out about for weeks in advance.

Right.

So my comfort zone started to expand,
but then the hurdles got bigger.

I had to speak for audiences
that were more terrifying.

I had to get in front of US
Army and Air Force generals.

I had to start giving TED Talks.

And I also had to start teaching
classes that were very short.

I had 225 students in just a week,
and I didn't have time to get to

know them and build relationships
with them like I'd always done.

And so every time my comfort zone
expanded, the challenge expanded,

and I was kind of in the deep end
treading water all over again.

And those consistent challenges really
gave me a crash course in saying, "You

know what? The worst case scenario is
I'm gonna embarrass myself again, and

then I'm gonna have great material
for future learning and teaching."

So that's a huge cognitive reframe
there, that this is something that

I can learn from versus something
I have to endure and survive.

I find it interesting that you
say you had to do these things.

I, I think it's awesome that you
got to do those things, to, to

share your knowledge with folks.

I wanna come back to the idea that
feedback played a critical role in

your, uh, in getting comfortable
speaking in front of others.

You were very specific in
the feedback you asked for.

You didn't just say, "How'd I do?"
Talk to me about the role that

feedback played for you in, in your
journey, but how feedback can play

in all of our journeys as we learn to
connect and engage with others better.

So I've come to believe that
feedback is overrated and advice is

underrated when it comes to learning.

And I didn't know that I was doing this
at the time, but I'll, I'll tell you a

quick story from the Air Force experience.

Fast-forward a couple years, I've, I've
started teaching my own classes, and I

get a call from the US Air Force and they
say, "We're looking for somebody to teach

leadership to our generals and colonels.
You came recommended. Would you do it?"

And Matt, I felt massively unqualified.

I looked at the bios of
these Air Force leaders.

I did not have thousands of flying hours.

I did not have hundreds of thousands
of troops under my command.

I didn't have a
multi-billion dollar budget.

But I had never served my country
before, and I felt like I had a

responsibility to say yes, so I did.

And it was even more
intimidating than I had feared.

When I walked in, it looked
like a scene out of Top Gun.

And the Air Force leaders,
instead of names on their name

cards, they had their call signs.

So staring me down are Gunner
and Striker and Bomber.

And I, I felt like what I had to do
was, was prove myself to these people.

So I started talking about my credentials
and my expertise and all the research

I'd done, and I got the feedback
forms afterward, and they were brutal.

One of the, the Air Force leaders had
written, "There was more knowledge in

the audience than on the podium." Fact.

And then I pulled out another one,
and it said, "I gained very little

from this session, but I trust the
instructor got useful insight."

Dagger to the heart.

I remember reading that and Googling, "Can
humans learn to hibernate like bears?" I

wanted to crawl into a hole for months.

I wanted to quit my job and never walk in
front of another military audience again.

I had a problem.

I had already committed to doing another
session with a group of Air Force leaders.

It was about a week later, and
as a matter of principle, I

follow through on my commitments.

So what could I do?

I didn't know this at the time, but
research has come out in the last few

years showing that we actually learn more
from other people if, instead of seeking

their feedback, we ask for their advice.

And the reason for that is
feedback is backward-looking.

It tells you what you did wrong
yesterday, and that's clearly what

these Air Force leaders had done for me.

Whereas advice is forward-looking.

It gives you specific, actionable
guidance around what you can change to

do better tomorrow And that's exactly
what I ended up finding when I thought,

"Okay, I don't know what to do." All
I could think to do was to go back to

the Air Force leaders who crucified me.

But I asked them a different question.

Instead of like, give me feedback,
I said, "I need suggestions. I have

to do this again. What advice do you
have for me next time?" And I got

very different responses from them.

I got comments about changes I could
make, and some of them had to do with

content, which was, that was just
useless for me because I had already

crammed everything I knew about
leadership into my four hours and I

did not have time to fully reboot it.

But a few of the comments I got
revolved around the way that I

introduced myself to the audience.

And one of the Air Force leaders said,
"Look, we can all tell that you're junior.

Why don't you just call out the elephant
in the room?" And I thought, "What do I

have to lose?" So I walked in front of
the, the next group of Air Force leaders.

I stared them down and I said, "I know
what you're thinking right now What

could I possibly learn from a professor
who's 12 years old? It was crickets.

But after, after what felt like an
eternity, one of the Air Force leaders,

uh, I'm gonna call him Sand Dune,
'cause that was his call sign, he jumped

in and he said, "That's ridiculous.

You look like you're at least
13." And everybody laughed at

that, and it broke the ice.

And I, I more or less taught the same
material, but I had taken myself off

a pedestal that I didn't belong on.

And afterward, the comments
were completely different.

One of my favorite ones said,
"You know, the professors seem

to get younger every year," or,
"Is it that we're getting older?

Either way, it was nice to learn about
how to motivate millennials from someone

who's almost young enough to be one.

And although junior in experience,
Adam dealt with the evidence in an

interesting way." And Matt, that
was, it was a great lesson for me

about showing a little humility and
being willing to laugh at myself.

But also in taking the very people who
gave me useless, demoralizing feedback,

seeking their advice, and discovering
they actually had a lot to teach me.

I think your call sign would
be suggestions, question mark.

It's so true.

But I, I appreciate, uh,
several things that you said.

One, that it's really important to
seek advice which is prospective versus

feedback, which is retrospective,
and that's really important.

And how you ask for that advice matters.

But you also gave us a really important
lesson about how you start communication.

Many of us lead with strength, with
competence, and in fact, connection and

warmth can be really important in that.

The, the joke you made really, I think,
sounds like transformed the experience.

So I appreciate you sharing that, too.

Well, thank you.

It's, you know, it's something
I've, I've continued to do every

time I give a speech or have a
conversation in front of an audience.

I will take anybody I can find afterward
and first invite them to be critics

and tell me, like, "0 to 10, what
would you rate that?" And it's, uh,

almost never does anybody give a 10.

And at that point, when even if they say
whether it's a 3 and a half or a 9, right?

They have admitted there is something
I could do that needs improvement.

And so I say, "Okay, you, you gave
me a score. It wasn't a 10. What

can I do to get closer to 10?"

And that's where the advice
starts to come into play.

And I don't wanna over-index on everyone's
comments, but I, if I hear the same

theme from multiple people independently,
I'm gonna take that as a useful signal.

And one thing that comes up
repeatedly when I, when I ask

people how to get closer to 10, is
the introduction really matters.

And striking that balance between
showing confidence and signaling

that you're competent, but also
making a real connection with

the audience is not always easy.

I'd like to turn our attention to your
current book, your new book, Vibe.

It's all about how we connect with others
and how wrong we often are about the

assumptions we have around communicating.

How do you know if you're
vibing with someone?

My, my kids tell me somebody my
age can't even use the word vibing.

But, uh, how do you know if
you're vibing with someone?

Yeah.

My 15-year-old told me to stop saying
vibe 'cause I was ruining the word.

I actually think there's a paradox, which
is similar to when you're in a flow state.

You often don't notice you're vibing
until after the fact because you're

so immersed in the conversation that
you weren't even thinking about it.

And I think that is, that is probably
the most basic sign that you're

vibing with somebody else, is the
conversation was so delightful, it

was so absorbing, that time flew.

You lost track of where you were,
maybe even who you were, and

afterward, you, you, you kinda
marveled at, "Wow, we really clicked."

I think that if you wanted to get
more precise about knowing when you're

vibing, if you were a neuroscientist,
you could actually measure people's

brainwaves and heartbeat synchronizing.

That's a sign that people are
experiencing chemistry in the moment.

And then over time, you would discover
that every time you interact, it brings

you closer, even if you're not always
having the most pleasant interactions.

So for me, one of the strongest signs
that you're vibing with somebody is that

you can have an argument with them and
come away feeling like, "I understood

them better. I trust them more. I like
them more, even though we didn't agree."

Are there things that we can do to
increase the likelihood that we vibe,

especially in a world where a lot of
our communication has become much more

transactional, especially with the,
the virtual communication that we do?

How can we increase that connection, which
is lovely when you experience it, uh, in a

world where we're on Zooms, Teams, Meets,
and it's all scheduled by the half hour?

I actually have some good news on that
front, which is there's some brand-new

research by Eli Finkel and his colleagues
on virtual dates versus in-person dates.

And, uh, let me just tell you, Matt, I
don't know anybody who would prefer to go

on a Zoom date to a date in a restaurant.

But if you actually look at the data
comparing them, although the in-person

date tends to last twice as long,
they are equally enjoyable and equally

likely to lead to a second date And I
think this is because people have low

expectations for virtual interaction.

And when you vibe with somebody that
you just, just met over Zoom, you

come away thinking, "Wow, that went
better than I thought it would." And

you're just as eager to meet them.

You can still gauge at a basic
level whether you find them

attractive and interesting.

And so I don't think we should write
off virtual interaction altogether.

The evidence on Zoom fatigue
suggests that we don't actually

burn out having back-to-back Zooms.

We get bored out.

It's originally a French term, l'bore-out.

Um, and it, it's different from burnout
because burnout is, is basically

being drained by being overstimulated
and stressed beyond your capacity.

Whereas bore-out comes from being
understimulated, uh, and being at below

challenge level, and that, that is
unfortunately the, the effect that too

much virtual interaction can have on us.

So I think we, we need
to set a limit on that.

A 30-minute Zoom date or meeting
could go fine, but let's not hang

out for three hours virtually.

Beyond recalibrating our expectations
for virtual, are there things

we can do to enhance vibing?

I think it depends what kind of
wavelength you want to vibe on.

So I've actually found that there are
three different kinds of, of wavelengths

that we can connect on, and I think about
them as allies, pals, and companions.

So if you want to enlist someone
as an ally, you're basically trying

to figure out what goals you share
so you can help each other succeed.

You want to be on a mission together.

If you're looking to connect with somebody
as a pal, a pal is somebody who you just

enjoy interacting with, and so you're
probably defaulting to what would be fun.

Do we have favorite hobbies
in common, shared interests?

Do we like the same
books, movies, or music?

And then I think companionship is often
the, the most intimate form of connection,

but it's not always the strongest.

A companion is, is somebody where there's
real mutual affection and care, and

there you probably are more interested
in finding out what are their biggest

struggles right now emotionally.

How can you support them?

You might also want to confide
in them and open up a little bit.

And so I actually think,
Matt, this is the first step.

If you want to improve your vibe with
people that you're just meeting or you're

trying to strengthen your connection
with, I think you want to start by

asking, "Am I trying to build a connection
as allies, pals, or companions?"

I really appreciate that distinction of
in what way are you trying to connect?

I often conflate these in my own
life, and then I get disappointed,

and it's helpful for me to think about
these are the people with whom I, I

really just want to be pals, and these
are people who, for me, are allies.

I appreciate that.

Let's take allies just as an
example, if you don't mind.

What might be a few things I
could do to help myself form

some of those relationships?

Allies are people who share your
goals, pals are people who share

your interests, and companions are
people who share your core values.

And if you're trying to enlist more
allies in your life, you're basically

looking for, for good collaborators.

And I think that usually starts with
asking people, "What's the biggest

challenge you're running into right now?"
Or, "What's a problem you would love

somebody to help you to solve?" And when
people start to talk about the roadblocks

they're running into, the obstacles
they're encountering, you can immediately

think of, "Okay, what do I know?

Or who do I know that might be helpful
there?" That's, I think, the asking

approach. If you want to start with
offering instead, open up about

one of your biggest challenges to
achieving your goals. And then say,

"Hey, here's where I am right now.

I'm stuck."

Or, "Here's what I'm trying to accomplish.

I would love some help.

Is this something that's
exciting for you, too?

If so, maybe there's a way that we can
collaborate or partner." But I want

to put a giant disclaimer on this.

Do not propose collaboration
on the first date.

Way too soon.

The worst cold emails I get, Matt,
are from people who say, "Hey, I

just wanted to reach out and see if
we could collaborate on a project."

And I'm like, "I don't even know you.

I just met you." "Why don't instead
you offer me an idea, a bit of advice,

maybe even a piece of feedback, uh,
or a suggestion, and, you know, let

me, let me get a taste of, of who you
are and what you do, and then we can

figure out whether it would make sense
for us to, to collaborate on anything."

I appreciate you delineating the ways
in which we can look to form allies and,

and specifying the, the differences among
the different types of, of relationships.

One of the things I really like that
you said was, in these situations

when you're trying to connect to
vibe, you can ask or you can offer.

And it's probably a balance of
the two that can be most helpful.

But as you go into these situations, think
to yourself, "What can I ask? What can

I offer?" I think can be really helpful.

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This has been a fantastic
conversation, Adam.

Uh, before we end, as you well
know, I like to ask three questions.

One I make up just for you, and
two I've been asking everybody as

long as the show has been going.

Uh, are you okay with that?

Of course.

So this was not my original question,
but now, uh, I have to ask it.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how have I done
in this interview, and what advice

would you have for me to improve?

Well, I have to use a 0 to 10 because
the 0 is just an extreme fail, and

also it allows for a midpoint of 5.

So I'm gonna modify your scale.

That's my first piece of advice, 0 to 10.

We use the diving scorecard.

Okay.

Secondly, I'm gonna give you a 9.25.

And let's see, you asked
how you can improve.

I think here's what I would say.

You are remarkably prepared.

You do your homework in advance on
your guests and their ideas, and

that's both validating and productive.

You are such a skilled communicator.

I, I'd seen this in your videos
for years, but it's, it's different

to experience it directly.

Thank you.

You actually demonstrate inverse charisma.

I, I feel like you've brought out
a better version of me than I would

have brought to an interview with
somebody else, and I think that's a

testament to the quality of questions
you ask, but also the way you respond.

And, you know, very often, I, I would
say almost every response you gave after

my comments, I had another thought that
was sparked by you reflecting back your

experience or you making an observation
about something I'd said that I didn't

even realize was, was interesting.

Like, the stakes comment, I think,
was an example of that, of it was

just kind of a throwaway observation.

Like, "Yeah, it was high stakes,
but it was kind of not high stakes."

And then you commented on that,
and I realized, "Oh, yeah.

Like, we want immediate stakes and
long-term, you know, irrelevance.

Yeah, that's a principle of,
of good exposure therapy.

Okay.

Didn't know that, but you just taught me
that I had something to say about that.

Thank you for that.

I think that you're
underusing those strengths.

I think that your questions are so meaty
that my impulse is to give you a full

answer, especially because I know that
in our hour recording, you're gonna cut

down to the greatest hits, and so I wanna
give you more material to work with.

The risk of that is it
reduces our burstiness.

It reduces the, the rapid fire back
and forth, and I don't get as much

back from you that then I can riff on.

Uh, and, and the coach answer I think
was a great example of that, right?

I gave you three points, you
could have responded to each one.

And so I think if you gave your guests a
target of, you know, maybe 1 to 2 minutes

per answer as opposed to, you know, 3 to
5, or you said, "Hey, you know, I've got

some meatier questions, and then I have
some that are more, you know, 30 to 60

second style that I would love to react
to, and then have a novel conversation

around," I think that would be helpful.

'Cause I, I feel torn between the
competing goals of giving you, like

doing justice to the quality of the
question with a quality answer, and

giving you more space to react, and
I think I erred on the former side

and you could do more of the latter.

What do you think?

I actually really appreciate that
advice because when I think about the

shows I like and, and have listened
to yours and see what you do, that I

like the term burstiness because I, I
know exactly what you're talking about.

I like that in my interpersonal
conversations a lot, and I

think I can bring that here.

So I appreciate that.

And I, I also, uh, it's very hard for
me to accept compliments, so I will

simply say thank you for the compliment.

All right, question number two, and
I'll be very interested in this answer.

Who is a communicator you admire, and why?

A lot of the communicators I admire
most are people who are great at

explaining complex ideas in ways that
make them memorable, but don't flatten

a 3D concept into two dimensions.

And I think that Dan Coyle,
Kate Murphy, Nedra Glover Tawwab

are all remarkably good at that

The ability to make complex information
accessible is a true talent, and

everybody you mentioned is good at that.

And I, and I, I'm not blowing smoke here.

Uh, several of our guests have named you
as their communicator that they admire.

So, so know that people are really
taking value from what you do as well.

Well, that's an honor, but
flattery will get them nowhere.

Okay.

Uh, I won't tell you who they were then.

Uh, final question, what are the
first three ingredients that go into

a successful communication recipe?

It depends on the type of communication.

Are we talking about writing,
speaking, conversing?

Let's, well, let's talk about
what you wrote about recently,

connecting, interpersonal.

If you're trying to communicate in
ways that help you connect, number

one, I don't think there's any way to
get around showing a genuine interest

in getting to know the other person.

Table stakes.

Being as curious about the other person as
you are excited to share about yourself.

I think that's key.

Uh, and that, that is the
antidote to what sociologists

call conversational narcissism.

So that's number one.

I think number two is
keeping your turns short.

One of the markers of a great vibe in a
conversation is more rapid turn-taking.

Neuroscientists have shown this, that if
people are kind of going back and forth

every 30 or 60 seconds, they're much
more likely to both be excited about

the conversation than, than if they're
alternating eight-minute monologues.

And so be brief, and that
invites the other person to

be brief, at least initially.

And then the third step, if you
wanna vibe, you have shown an

interest in the other person.

You've gotten that bursty back and forth.

I think the last thing to do is to
take note of a few things you wanna

remember from the conversation.

Uh, these have been called pebbles,
or it's the act of pebbling.

You follow up a week or a month or a year
later and you say, "Hey, you know, I was

thinking about this comment you made," or,
"I watched a, a show or read an article

that reminded me of you." That is a memory
flex, and that is a way of, of signaling,

"Hey, I cared enough not just to listen
to you in the moment, but to actually

notice over time there was something that
I engaged with that I think you would

like, too." And that's a great way to
both strengthen and solidify a connection.

I love that term memory flex.

I, I like it.

I've described what you said a lot, and
I've never used that term, but I will now.

So it's about demonstrating
interest, burstiness, and pebbling.

If you can do those three things,
you've got a good communication.

I love how well you synthesize.

That's what I should have said.

Yes.

The, I think the three ingredients of
a great vibe are interest in the other

person, burstiness in the back and
forth rapidly, and then sending little

pebbles afterward to say, "Hey, I thought
of you and I noticed what you care

about and I want to stay connected."

Excellent.

Thank you so much for the wide range
of advice and guidance you've given.

This has been a fantastic conversation.

I appreciate your time, and
best of luck with your new book.

Thank you.

It's been a pleasure to be here, Matt.

This was an absolute joy.

Thank you for joining us
for another episode of Think

Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

I really enjoyed learning
from Adam Grant today.

One of the biggest takeaways I had
was how we actually have different

types of connection we go after,
be it allies, pals, or companions.

This really changed the way
I look at the relationships I

have and am seeking to have.

To learn more about creative thinking
and communication, listen to episode

80 from Adam's colleague, Jonah Berger.

This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, Alex

McCarthy, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

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