Building an Elite Show Goat Program with Cade & Jamie Halfmann | Halfmann Livestock

Welcome to the first-ever Drench Line Breeder Spotlight. Sam and Logan traveled to The Little E in Garden City, Texas, to sit down with Cade and Jamie Halfmann of Halfmann Livestock, one of the most respected show goat programs in the country.

Cade's family has been in the Boer goat business since they were brought into the United States in the early '90s, and he's watched the industry grow from half-blood goats shown on a long lead to the elite, flush-driven programs of today. He tells how he walked away from law school his final semester of college, bought The Little E with no plan (and no plan B), and grew 24 does into a program that now produces sale toppers and major show winners across the nation.

Jamie brings a respected cattle background from Illinois, a sharp eye for structure, and the skin-and-hair expertise the Halfmann goats are known for. Together, they talk openly about marriage as a business partnership, balancing sale prices against putting goats in the right barns, and why the program took its biggest leap when they started running it like a business instead of a hobby.

This one goes deep, and it doesn't sugarcoat:

• Why Cade built the doe base first: the power's in the female
• The hard year: recip conception problems and what a short kid crop costs you
• The real cost of entry, and Cade's advice for young breeders (starting with a good banker)
• Why Halfmann Livestock can fit any budget, and why the average show goat matters more than the sale toppers
• Xanax, Crank, and the sires shaping the program
• Breeding season in hot, dry country: less is more
• Jamie on structure, judging the Kansas City doe show, and a hot take on judge qualifications
• Why, at the end of the day, "we're in the kid business"

Plus a first look at Goop, Jamie's new skin and hair conditioner - available to order now at https://goopmagic.com/.

Thank you, Cade and Jamie, for sitting down with us!

Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. 
Submit your questions at DrenchLine.com 
Read related posts on show goat breeding and management at DrenchLine.com

🙌 THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS
- Purina Animal Nutrition: https://www.purinamills.com/Products/sheep-feed 
- The Muzzle Co. (use code DRENCHLINE10): https://www.themuzzleco.com
- Judy's Western Wares (use code DRENCHLINE10):  https://judysww.myshopify.com/

⭐ WANT YOUR OPERATION FEATURED? Interested in featuring your ranch or operation on The Drench Line? Reach out to [e-mail] or visit DrenchLine.com for more information.

Creators and Guests

Host

Logan Newsom

Logan was born in the Texas Panhandle and grew up in West Texas, where he showed sheep and hogs before landing at Angelo State to play football. He eventually joined the livestock judging team, spent time in Texas Agri-Life Extension Service, and returned to what he knows best: raising sheep. He's currently a full-time sheep producer based in Olton, Texas, raising his family in the same world he grew up in.

Host

Sam Silvers

Sam was raised in Salado, Texas, spent his summers working sheep in West Texas, livestock judged at South Plains before finishing his degree at Texas Tech. He's held roles as a Texas Agri-Life County Extension agent, a Border Patrol agent, Livestock pharmaceutical salesman and is now the Small Ruminant Technical Sales Support Senior Manager for BioZyme Inc., the makers of Sure Champ and DuraFerm. He's one of the few people who can say both himself and his son have won the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo market lamb show.

What is Drench Line Podcast?

Most show families figure it out the hard way. They ask around, get partial answers, and fill in the rest on their own. Logan Newsom and Sam Silvers have been in the show industry long enough to have made most of those mistakes themselves — and they're sharing that wisdom with you.

Drench Line is a podcast about sheep, goats, and everything that comes with life in the show world. When to vaccinate. How to pick your animal. What to expect at your first major show. What nobody standing on the sidelines will actually tell you. New episodes drop twice a month, and they don't sugarcoat a thing.

Logan and Sam have been friends since they were teenagers working summers at a sheep ranch in Eden, Texas. Now they're both show dads raising their own families in world they grew up in. This show is their way of passing it on — not just to their kids, but to every family that's new to this and looking for someone to shoot straight.

Coming soon!
Drench Line is just getting started. Coming soon: voice memo questions answered on air, and guests who have genuinely shaped the show world — the breeders, stockmen, and industry figures whose names you already know. If there's someone you want to hear from, send your request to www.drenchline.com.

Be part of the conversation!

This show is built around the questions real families are asking. Got something you can't get a straight answer on? Submit your question at www.drenchline.com and it might just get answered on the next episode. Logan and Sam want to hear from you — that's not a throwaway line, it's the whole point.

Halfmann Episode
===

Sam Silvers: [00:00:00] Welcome back to The Drenchline, folks. An exciting day for us here. We, uh, just finished up in Garden City, Texas, at, uh, the famous Little E Halfmann Livestock. Glad to be back. Glad for y'all to be joining in with us today. Uh, don't forget to follow us on all the social media, uh, Facebook, Instagram. What else is there?

Sam Silvers: I, I'm always bad at this. Spotify, YouTube. Spotify, YouTube. Yeah.

Logan Newsom: MySpace. M-

Sam Silvers: is MySpace... Is that still a thing?

Logan Newsom: It's am- it's incredible that you don't know that MySpace is or is not a thing.

Sam Silvers: It... Yeah, I don't, I don't know what that was. Okay. I didn't have an email till I was a senior in college.

Logan Newsom: You could be like that buddy of ours that still has his AOL one from the time we were, like, 14 years old.

Logan Newsom: It's still the same. We'll call him out later on. Uh, yeah, so we had a, you know, huge day, um, ton of information, ton of insight, a ton of knowledge that was dropped, you know, here. We could've went on and on for hours. Um, talking to Cade and Jamie and what those guys have done, and the operation that they've put together, you know, is absolutely [00:01:00] second to none.

Logan Newsom: you know, and interesting dialogue, um, where they came from, what they've done, what they built, where they're headed. I think, I think there's a lot of good there.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. D- different backgrounds, but, um, totally centered around, around, uh, stock.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, yeah.

Sam Silvers: And, and good stock.

Logan Newsom: Yep, absolutely. And I mean, you know, any time that you can put a mic in front of Jamie, we know there's gonna get...

Logan Newsom: be good content, huh?

Sam Silvers: Oh, 100%. And, and I just wanna caution everybody a little bit, if you're prone to seizures, um, you, you might wanna get your shades on 'cause Jamie's gonna have something loud and entertaining on that she's wearing. So it, it might cause, uh, temporary blindness or seizures.

Logan Newsom: Hey, she, she's got, she's got fashion sense.

Logan Newsom: Like, she's, she's the only one, and then I know- Oh, here we go ... that we were gonna talk about this. Here we go. She's the only one that appreciated my jacket in San Antonio.

Sam Silvers: I, I thought it was terrible.

Logan Newsom: It's ridiculous.

Sam Silvers: But you teased me... This is funny. It... You teased me about my truck, and you said my, you know, my truck's looks like a high school kid's.

Logan Newsom: No, [00:02:00] I said it looks like an, an oil field employee that just got his first check.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Well- That's what I said ... so, I, I mean, but you dress like a middle schooler, so I mean- Fair enough ... it kind of evens out. Now, I do wanna caution, um, uh, listeners and viewers today that Logan did not get a fresh haircut- No

Sam Silvers: so he may be a little off his game today. Uh, but we're gonna get through it.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, yeah. W- we, yeah, we're gonna survive.

Sam Silvers: Gonna get some of that goop in there, and, uh, we'll get her laid over, and things will be good. Southern Sun goop. More, more on goop, more on goop later. More

Logan Newsom: on goop later. Very good. Thanks for listening.

Logan Newsom: Thanks for tuning in, guys. Looking forward to this episode.

Sam Silvers: See you down the road.

​

Sam Silvers: Here we are with the world-famous Cade Halfmann and Jamie Halfmann.

Logan Newsom: One of them is world-famous. Another one, you know, is a goat rancher in Glasscock County.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. one's a rancher, one's a celebrity-

Logan Newsom: Mm-hmm.

Sam Silvers: Absolutely ... I would say. Yep. y- you know, we were, [00:03:00] we're gonna go over a lot here today, obviously.

Sam Silvers: Um, but, uh, we were talking with Jamie earlier, and, um, how she makes both of us nervous at stock shows, and we tend to kinda run away when she's in a bad mood.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, when she's in a bad mood, for sure. And she's trying to be in that

Cade Halfmann: environment every day.

Sam Silvers: Like, I literally will be confrontational with any human being on Earth, but when I see Jamie coming and something's went bad, I will turn around and run.

Logan Newsom: Do you think it's the, like, her wardrobe selection that really, like, you don't... Like, you feel underdressed when you're around her?

Sam Silvers: No, I, it, it has nothing to do with the dress code. It's just, um, she's, she's an intimidating human being.

Logan Newsom: Well, good.

Jamie Halfmann: You think I'm intimidating, Cade?

Logan Newsom: Only on the weekends.

Logan Newsom: What?

Logan Newsom: See? There you

Logan Newsom: Like Sam said, we're here at, uh, Cade and Jamie Halfmann's. We're gonna let them, you know, have the microphone here shortly and, and kinda dive deep into their operation and what they've got going. But, obviously appreciate you guys' time to sit down and, and visit with us and, you know, kinda give your backstory and, you know, why, [00:04:00] why you've gotten to how...

Logan Newsom: or how you've gotten to where you are. And, um, as Drenched Line podcast has evolved, obviously we started off, you know, and it was more of some of the things that we were doing at home, some of the things that, you know, might be happening at the house, tips and tricks along the way that maybe we've learned, um, you know, in the, in the sheep and the goat world.

Logan Newsom: But we've wanted to kind of evolve and get, you know, more interviews like this, get folks' story, you know. Raising stock isn't something that just all of a sudden, number one, happens easily. Uh, and number two, you know, get to the success and the level that these guys are without probably a shitload of things going wrong along the way, if we're being honest.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. And I think they'll probably dive into that, and you'll be able to talk to us, um, you know, about a little more of that as we kinda, kinda go through. 'Cause it is, uh, for you folks listening, as, as you probably well know, um, there's days that everybody probably wants to throw in the towel and go to town, and I, I wanna be the JV basketball coach.

Logan Newsom: That's what I wanna do. Um, I wanna be able to play dodgeball, and I wanna, I wanna be able to coach JV. 'Cause, you know, with JV, like, [00:05:00] if you got a rough group of kids and, like, you don't win, it's not really that big a deal 'cause it's JV, but you get to play dodgeball. So that's, that's kinda my go-to on, you know, when days are struggles or- Short

Jamie Halfmann: shorts and a whistle

Logan Newsom: short shorts.

Logan Newsom: Old school short shorts, yeah, tucked in.

Sam Silvers: He's already got the jacket for it.

Logan Newsom: Got the jacket, got the, got the, got the track suit. Wore

Jamie Halfmann: it in San Antonio last year.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, see.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. So, um- It's hot ... yeah, we're, uh, we're gonna be able to have a chance to sit down with these guys and kinda get their story.

Logan Newsom: But as we do, again, you know, thank you, guys, for, for sitting down and, and taking time out of your day. But tell us a little bit about the beginning. Tell us kinda how stuff got started. Uh, the little e, Halfmann Livestock, show goat operation. You know, dive in, uh, as far back as you want to, kinda where, where this deal, uh, came to where it's at now.

Cade Halfmann: Well, I guess, like, origin story-wise, I've, I feel like I've probably been around the boer goat industry, as we'll call it, as long as anybody has. Uh, back in the early '90s when I was just a little kid, uh, my parents and a group of guys, Norman Coles was the county agent out [00:06:00] here back then, and they imported boer goats into the United States in the early '90s.

Cade Halfmann: And I guess really is, the rest is history. I've kinda seen the business since its inception, and- Been through the ups and downs and the variations in the industry, uh, and I've kinda gone from there. I've showed pretty competitively in my high school days and went to college, did livestock judging. And for some stupid, stupid reason, I was g- not...

Cade Halfmann: This is not the dumb part. I was gonna go to law school. That was, that was my goal. Thought I was gonna be, you know, a big shot lawyer.

Sam Silvers: Cade Halfmann- Yeah ... a lawyer.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah.

Sam Silvers: Now, I, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna interrupt you for a second- Yeah, that's good ... 'cause I wa- I wanna tell all the viewers here, I've said this several times, um, I, I'm a Tech grad, Logan's a Tech grad I think if everybody could experience going to college with a Halfmann and a Neff and a McPhaul- Hmm

Sam Silvers: I, I mean, it's, it, there's no way to describe it. That's right. Right? We, we've talked about this, Logan. Like, [00:07:00] it, I, I went, when I... I'm a little older than you, but in my college days I was there with a Neff and with a Halfmann, and geez.

Cade Halfmann: You learn a lot.

Sam Silvers: You, yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Mm-hmm. And maybe that's why I didn't choose the law school route, 'cause I thought I knew everything at that point.

Cade Halfmann: At that point. My education was over. Um, yeah, so I was gonna go to law school. Thought that was a great idea. And, like, the last semester, maybe really, like, the last month of school, I was like, "I think I wanna raise goats. I wanna do it full time, and I don't know why." And that's- '

Jamie Halfmann: Cause you made a couple do- $100 trading on 'em.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, we tr- traded a few and hired- Easy money. Yeah. I- Easy money ... yeah, my last semester in college, um, or I guess that last year of college, bought two goats from Preston Faris, she's had Brian on the podcast last week. And, uh, bought two goats from Preston Faris, sent 'em to Indiana State Fair, grand reserve.

Cade Halfmann: Oh, man. And I thought, "Ha, child's play." You got this. You got this. I mean, this is easy. This is easy. Yeah. Everybody can do this. And so I, I came home the week before graduation from college, and my dad [00:08:00] said, "Hey, there's this, this place," which is where we're sitting right now, The Little E as we call it. Um, he said, "They've got a great pen set up.

Cade Halfmann: There's a lot of neat things done at that facility. If you're gonna do this goat deal, we at least need to call Mike," the guy that owned this place, "and, and go up to Mike's place and look around, look at the pens and some things like that." We came over here, grabbed us a couple cocktails, and came on in and snooped around.

Cade Halfmann: And the next day we called him, tell, you know, thank him for letting us come up here. And he said, "Well, you wouldn't be interested in buying that place, would you?" And Dad had been trying to buy this place for 10 years, 15 years, and it was never for sale. And that guy said, "Well, if you guys want it, think you can use it, sell it to you."

Cade Halfmann: No plan, no money, no... I had nothing.

Sam Silvers: So this, this, this farm, this place was called The Little E.

Cade Halfmann: It is now. We, we... That was a- aft- named after the fact. So there's a, there's an inside joke between my dad and I.

Sam Silvers: Okay.

Cade Halfmann: Um, you know, he, he, those good fatherly talks that you get in your life. And you know the wind likes to blow in Garden [00:09:00] City, and things get, you know, a little nasty at times.

Cade Halfmann: Nasty. Jamie, she, uh, it was almost a deal breaker for her.

Jamie Halfmann: Truly.

Cade Halfmann: And, uh, but now there'd be times we'd, wind would be blowing, and Daddy put his arm around me, and he'd look out at the dirt blowing across the field and say, "Son, someday this whole empire will be yours." And so the joke was, whenever I bought this place, we started calling it The Little Empire.

Cade Halfmann: Okay. That was just the family joke. And we shortened it to The Little E, and that just- I- ... that's what everybody called it. Yeah. Everybody around here knew that this was The Little E, and that's, it stuck. Lane, Cousin Lane, was sitting in class in Blaine one day doodling. I know he wasn't doing any schoolwork.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah,

Sam Silvers: that's for sure.

Cade Halfmann: And, uh- He sent me a sketch on a yellow piece of notebook paper, and he had the little E brand drawn. He said, "This is it. Run with it." And that's-

Sam Silvers: That's awesome ...

Cade Halfmann: it's been a, it's a household name now. That's crazy. And so, yeah.

Jamie Halfmann: And now it's sprinkled into our new house- Uh-huh ... down there.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Sam Silvers: Cousins are pretty much right across the road from you. Right across the road, yeah. Lane and Brody. So that- Yeah ... it's kind of neat to- It

Cade Halfmann: is. Mm-hmm We're all right here,

Sam Silvers: and-

Sam Silvers: Got the family right here ...

Cade Halfmann: get to do things [00:10:00] together. And, and so yeah, we just kind of started there. And no, like I said, no plan.

Cade Halfmann: There was, there was no plan, but there was also no plan B. And that's kind of the mentality that we've adopted in everything that we do. We're full bore, right, wrong, or indifferent, we go head down-

Sam Silvers: Head

Cade Halfmann: down,

Sam Silvers: ass

Cade Halfmann: up ...

Sam Silvers: and sometimes ass up.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, there you go. Yep. Yep. And sometimes they go over the top of each other.

Sam Silvers: So Jamie, why don't you tell us a little bit about how y'all, how y'all met? Tell, tell- Okay ... us first your background.

Jamie Halfmann: Yes. So I actually also grew up in the livestock world, but with cattle. And so when I met Cade, we had a lot of the same interests, he just happened to raise goats. And at first I was a little skeptical, because growing up in Illinois, goats really weren't a thing yet.

Cade Halfmann: Be honest, goats really still aren't that cool.

Jamie Halfmann: And which now I love goats, because it's what we do every day, and it's honestly just like a smaller version of cattle.

Cade Halfmann: True.

Jamie Halfmann: And so anyways, I was at Oklahoma State, I was getting ready to graduate, and Cade [00:11:00] actually came with Kelsey Pfieffer to the Copper Penny one night, and we met.

Jamie Halfmann: And-

Jamie Halfmann: That's

Cade Halfmann: where you should find your wife, in a bar.

Jamie Halfmann: And I told my dad, I said, "Hey, I met this guy from Garden City, Texas, and I think he's the one." And my dad said, "Well, you need to go visit Garden City before you sign up for anything- ... 'cause that place is a hell hole." And so I came and visited, and got to see Cade's goat operation.

Jamie Halfmann: And I just remember being really impressed with what he had put together at such a young age. And I guess the rest is history.

Sam Silvers: That's awesome. And y'all have been here how long now?

Cade Halfmann: Been, I-

Jamie Halfmann: We've been married for 12 years. You've had the place for 14?

Cade Halfmann: 15. Yeah, I guess we, we started over here in two thou-

Cade Halfmann: Our first kid cropped us in 2011.

Cade Halfmann: So. Okay. Awesome.

Logan Newsom: Dive into, uh, you talked about it there at kind of at the beginning, you know, like what folks that are sitting there listening or maybe even some that are involved- Think of show goats in today's world as opposed to what that looked [00:12:00] like whenever you were coming up, whenever you were showing-

Cade Halfmann: Oh, boy

Logan Newsom: and, like, how that has evolved.

Cade Halfmann: It has- And fast, fast. You've not- Fast ... you've not seen the industry have the kinda rapid growth curve and change the livestock like we have in the goat business.

Logan Newsom: For sure.

Cade Halfmann: It's, it's unbelievable. I, I mean, it's still in its infancy. We're - I think those first boer goats came in the US in '92 or '93, so we're just a shade over 30 years even into the industry- Yeah

Cade Halfmann: the whole industry. And the majority of that, we were bringing those, the boer bucks over and breed them to Spanish nannies- Yeah ... Nubian nannies. I mean, it... We were making half blood boer goats back then, and that's what we were showing at major shows. Even when I was showing and I graduated a long time ago, not as long as you, but long enough.

Sam Silvers: Gee, thanks.

Cade Halfmann: And, uh, you know, I can only remember we only showed at Houston my high school years because Houston didn't even have a [00:13:00] sale for the goats. The goats didn't even get to make the sale. There was no Austin. Austin was still a regional show at that point in time.

Logan Newsom: Mm-hmm.

Cade Halfmann: It was still, you know, the- Counties

Cade Halfmann: surrounding counties or whatever it was. Um, Angelo was the last show of the year, and it was the big one. That was, that was the end-all, be-all, and I'm telling you, these things, we got recips look better than ones that used to win.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: And I- if I can find it-

Jamie Halfmann: That's C- that's Hazen and Humble's favorite thing to do is go back and look at the goats that Cade showed because Hazen likes to give her dad a really hard time about-

Cade Halfmann: And if I can find those pictures-

Cade Halfmann: what that looks like ... and we can find a way to pop them up in the podcast, I'll send them to

Logan Newsom: you.

Logan Newsom: We'll have to, uh, yeah, we'll have to make sure our production team jumps on that and finds some... I was, I was curious about this. Jamie, you showed, obviously, cattle.

Jamie Halfmann: Mm-hmm.

Logan Newsom: Very, very well-known, respected cattle family, um, in Illinois.

Logan Newsom: Did you show anything else growing up?

Jamie Halfmann: Um, I did not. My brothers showed pigs here and there. But I will say, being a cattle person, we had to work hair a lot. That was something that was really important to my brothers and my dad. And so with [00:14:00] this goat situation, when I came here, that was kinda my job, was to take care of their skin and hair, and Cade is kind of responsible for a lot of the changes that have happened because he breeds such huge hair into the goats.

Jamie Halfmann: And so ours just genetically have huge leg hair, and that was kind of my job, was to take care of that skin and hair. And so I used my cattle background to kinda help with his- Sure, yeah ... goat

Logan Newsom: herd. Yeah, yeah. Without question, I mean, and especially- Mm-hmm ... I would say in the last few years, you know, those two things have probably more closely resembled each other and come hand-in-hand.

Logan Newsom: Whenever, whenever you grew up showing, I was cur- I was curious, and I was, I was a, I was a one-hit wonder. I had a, I had a one black show goat, and I won a, our local show, and then that was it. My brothers did more of it, but I was, I was one and done. I don't remember us... I, I feel like we always showed more on the chain, you know?

Logan Newsom: Like, I mean, like-

Logan Newsom: Oh, there was no bracing ... there was no bracing, right? I mean, I wanted to make sure I was right on that, like- No.

Cade Halfmann: Oh, no, no, no. No, I can... And I can remember... Man, I can remember... I feel like s- at some point in time, there's, [00:15:00] there's gotta be a way we were responsible for this. I, it was early 2000s.

Cade Halfmann: I was probably in elementary school still, and, uh, state fair- ... Preston Ferris is judging. Uh, we had a paint goat. He was real good, and this thing was wild. He was nuts. Insane, absolutely insane. Nobody braced him. But chain showing those things, nobody braced on 'em, and this thing was nuts, and it was all I could do. I mean, I just had to bear down and hold him. They came up to handle that thing. Preston comes up there and, and, uh, handles that thing, and he's like back at it and back at it, and I'm like, "I can't." And he just says, "All right.

Cade Halfmann: Give him hell." Pro- Preston probably didn't say that, but that's what he meant. And I feel like that was kind of right there on the cusp of when things started like- Some of that

Logan Newsom: started

Cade Halfmann: changing ... some of that started changing. Yeah. That was a little more of an accepted way to, to do things, but it was, it was not.

Cade Halfmann: No, you held him like a dairy goat.

Logan Newsom: Yep.

Cade Halfmann: The longer the lead, the better.

Logan Newsom: Yep, yep. No, that was what, uh... That, I mean, like... And, and I feel like that, again, like you said, you know, that wasn't that long ago. I mean, we can, you know, sit here and think about, you know, how [00:16:00] things have evolved, but I mean, that wasn't that long ago.

Logan Newsom: I mean, we're talking, you know, some of that 10 years ago, there were still a, a lot of those kids were showing them very similarly. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, so, so how that has changed and how rapidly it's changed, you know, has, has been impressive. So a- as that, as that has, you know, evolved like anything, the little e certainly has also, from where that started in, in 2011 to, to where you're at now, how much drastic change does that look like?

Logan Newsom: Like, what it, what it... What's, what's current production look like? Obviously, semen sales, and in today's world, flushing embryo transfer work, all that stuff is, has taken up, you know, I feel like all of our late summer and early fall days as- That's it ... livestock, you know, operations. But how, how has that evolved from those beginning days?

Logan Newsom: What's it look like now?

Cade Halfmann: I feel like we're a lot more willing to share genetics than we were then. I, I think it was such a niche market back then, that if you had something, you better hold tight to it. Nobody shared bucks. [00:17:00] Nobody was selling semen. That was-

Logan Newsom: You raised Finwool sheep? I had no idea you raised Finwool sheep.

Cade Halfmann: That's about right. I mean, everybody- ... thinks they've got the one, and they- Yep ... wanna protect it and don't, don't wanna let it out, and I, I feel like, God, I've obviously noticed it in the sheep dealing, we're just a... Seems like we're three to four years behind on where the sheep guys are reproductively, uh, semen-wise.

Cade Halfmann: We've kind of adopted a lot of those principles now, and hey, it's go, go, go, and everybody's got access to everything. So I think we're seeing a, a more rapid growth in the quality of livestock. Uh, we're mass producing 'em more, and everybody's got access to those genetics. On the alternative, I think we're expounding a lot of problems.

Cade Halfmann: Like, we see our problems pop up faster. We figure out what doesn't work a lot faster. Um, and so it's trying to Maintain yourself and have a proactive mind and be looking at the next step. I think complacency kills. Sure. Um, and you always [00:18:00] gotta be... You can't be scared. I mean, you gotta know where the edge is, but you gotta be making plans and never get complacent in the way that you're doing things.

Logan Newsom: What do you think the big thing that, like, was, was the thing that changed, you know, you said that you've always been just full bore, go, go, go. But, like, in those early days, it had to have been a little bit of, "Hey, I'm just- I'm trying to get my foot in the door. I'm trying to make it in this thing, you know?

Logan Newsom: I'm trying to just have some sort of footprint in this industry." What was the big thing that swung that pendulum to maybe kind of gave you the momentum to get to where we're at now?

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: I, I think that in any of this stuff, I... Glenn Martin told me this, and Glenn was really influential in helping me get my start and get some does gathered when we started.

Cade Halfmann: And, uh, he told me this, he said, "I gotta make you famous before you can get rich and famous." And I think that it was trying to balance early on the need to make money because, hey, the bank still wants their money every year. Every year. No matter how you're doing. Yep. Whether you're doing good or [00:19:00] you're doing bad-

Logan Newsom: They get their call

Cade Halfmann: they get the first cut.

Logan Newsom: Yep.

Cade Halfmann: And so I think trying to find the balance early on and making sure that we got our best stock in the best homes to have the best chance for success, balancing that versus Dollars and cents is hard because, hey, we're all sitting on this panel here, and we got a little old school in us.

Cade Halfmann: We've been around this a long time. We're all a little tight. We had to not be at times. We're get- we're all getting that way. I've seen you at a sale, and I've seen you at a sale. And hey, sometimes we've gotta throw it around a little bit to make it work. But, you know, I'm more willing to take a little hit on a few dollars to get one in your barn, or get one in your barn to give us a chance to win, than just trying to capitalize on that, like-

Sam Silvers: Chase the dollar

Cade Halfmann: chase the dollar. And I, and I think that you can get wrapped up in both sides of... We gotta make money. There, there's no doubt. I'm not in this for my health. This is my [00:20:00] sole source of income. We're not doing this... I enjoy it some days. 10% of the days I enjoy it. The other 90% kinda suck. But, uh-

Jamie Halfmann: Which we've argued a lot on that part of it because I'm all about capitalizing, "Hey, this is how we make a living.

Jamie Halfmann: We gotta sell 'em for the most money that we can." Cade's like, "No, we need one in Logan's barn. No, we need one in Sam's barn." So it's a, it's a- It's a pickle ... slippery slope- It is ... that you have to try to- Yep ...

Cade Halfmann: maneuver. Success breeds success, and whether that is financial success, or winning, or, or however you wanna look, there's a lot of ways to, like, the better you are, the better you are.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. I think that's a, I think that's an interesting comment that Jamie has, and that probably, you know, makes for a very, um, a very good team because I probably fall in that category a little bit. Like, I could just barter and trade my way through life and be fine with it, and I would just, like, if Sam had something that I needed and I wanted him to have my sheep, I could just be like, "Hey, well, I'll give you my sheep.

Logan Newsom: You give me [00:21:00] those goods that you have," you know, sugar, flour, or whatever that is. Commodities. Com- commodities. Yeah, just hand them over. Yeah, like, and then we'll just call it good. Like, no money has to trade hands, and then like- Furs and half your women. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, uh and then, you know, like you said, then all of a sudden, you know, that guy at the bank calls.

Logan Newsom: He's like, "Hey, man, saw that sheep won," or I, you know, "He's- he had a good sale. Like, how, you know, about, about time to pay that note." I'm like, "Oh, damn," you know? All I have is pelts. All I have is pelts. Exactly, like, that's, that's all we've got. But I g- I should've grown up, you know, in like the 1870s or something.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. But, so yeah, that probably makes for a good team. You know, like Jamie's kinda sitting there on the backside, you know, poking you a little bit, like, "Hey, we gotta, you know- Poking ... we ha- we have, yeah, yeah, we have to make sure that- That, that's the thing ... that all this works ... I, I was thinking about this 'cause I was just...

Cade Halfmann: You asked Jamie and I to be on this together, and I thought, "Boy, you know, I've listened to some podcasts where you get a husband and wife teams, and they talk about how much they love each other, and how, how much their support means to each other." And I'm not really sure that that's, like, Jamie and I's relationship.

Cade Halfmann: Well, I think we push each other. It is. It's, it's a, it's a- We [00:22:00] compete with each other- We're... We do. We're- ... in a weird way ... we've got very- Yeah ... stern ideas, and we're very bullheaded, the both of us. We've got the same end goal. We've got different ways we wanna get there. But we're, we're teammates. Like it- Sure

Cade Halfmann: we push each other, and sometimes we pull and tug and everything in between. Yeah. But we're trying to get there. Not, not that The Drenchline Podcast is ever gonna give marital advice, but- ... I try to tell the younger people, you know, y- i- it's a, it's a business. Marriage is, marriage is a business. And, uh, to me it's a- Gotta have the same goal

Sam Silvers: it's a business first before it's anything else. And- 100% ... you're, it's your business partner, and y'all gotta have the goal and work at it together, and you're gonna fight, and you're gonna disagree. Yeah, but- Well, everyone is pretty open about, like, if somebody's here, we don't really hold back. We just are who we are.

Jamie Halfmann: Yeah. So, yeah, to the random person that comes by the barn, they're probably like, "Wow, those- They hate each other ... th- those people are weird." It's not just the random people that think that. Yeah. Well, I'm not, [00:23:00] I'm not, I'm not gonna name any names here, but maybe if they see the podcast they'll understand this.

Cade Halfmann: We were sitting in the stands at San Antonio. Jamie and I had just gotten married. Well, and the problem is I can see livestock and evaluate them pretty, pretty, I'm just saying, pretty good. Would you agree? Okay. Yeah. Like, I have a pretty good eye for livestock. Different strokes for different folks. Yeah.

Jamie Halfmann: I'm just saying. But- And so we were watching the weather show. Watching s- watching them come into San Antonio, and we're kind of picking out the ones we think are gonna win. And we were disagreeing on which bull is the best. And we were disagreeing. I mean, we were, like, arguing. Like- Like I told Cade, he was dumb.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, in more words. And this person sitting in front of us, she turned around, and as serious, she said, "Have y'all considered marriage counseling?" And I'm like, "Well, this is just nor- this is just an everyday thing." No, this is normal. "This is, this is not a big deal for us." We're good. This is where we're at.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, we're good. Yeah. But like I said, we're, me and Jamie are teammates. And- She'll jab me in the back, but she got my back. She'll go to the, go to the carpet for me, and I'd do the same for her, [00:24:00] and that's what makes our deal work. And it's not all pretty all the time, and we bitch and moan and yell at each other a lot, but the goal's the goal.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. 100%.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

​

Logan Newsom: Sure. As, um, as we kinda talk about that and difference of... differences of opinions in, you know, the livestock world, and I think that probably is a little, probably some things that you can take away from Jamie's background that can come, you know, I would say very beneficial in a breeding mindset.

Sam Silvers: Are you fixing to ask Jamie her opinions on judges?

Logan Newsom: No, I'm not doing that.

Cade Halfmann: That's

Logan Newsom: where a hot takes episode is. That's, that's, that's definitely the hot takes [00:25:00] episode. I- but I think that's interesting, and especially I can only imagine what she probably thought when she saw some of those first goats at San Anton.

Logan Newsom: You know, what, what are we talking about? Just like- You know, 10, 12 years ago ... what,

Cade Halfmann: what is-

Logan Newsom: These... Yeah, what are these people doing? What are we doing here? And at the time, they were still bringing some good money. You know, maybe not quite as crazy, but still good money. So it's like, what, what are y'all, what are y'all doing?

Logan Newsom: But so as we kind of, as we kind of, you know, approach this next subject, I think it'll be interesting for you folks listening, especially if you're interested in some of the bucks that these guys have been promoting and these guys got going. Um, if you're not completely sold on Cade's view of them, you can probably, you know, get a little insight from Jamie.

Logan Newsom: So, um, we talked about, you know, kinda where it's come, you know, in, in, in terms of where you guys are at now. Talk a little bit about the history of... I, I know we're gonna get into, you know, Xanax is one that's, you know, very, very relevant in times. Had a tremendous week last week in the Midwest. What was one of those maybe foundation sires or females that kinda started to set that [00:26:00] stage for whenever you kinda looked back and thought, "I'm getting it right," you know?

Logan Newsom: Like, "I'm, I'm starting to get to that point where I'm making the goats that I like. We're, we're selling them well. We're winning. The dominoes are starting to fall."

Cade Halfmann: I'll, I'll kinda back up probably a little bit o- even on that. So I, I think the first three or four years that we were in the business, I, I did...

Cade Halfmann: I, I probably didn't give myself enough credit back then for what I was trying to do, but looking back, it made a lot of sense, and sometimes I think we need to go back. But I spent the first three or four years only worrying about what the females look like. I, I knew that if we wanted to build this to be long-term, I, I think the power's in the female.

Cade Halfmann: Uh, and, and we kinda take that approach, which, which may be different than a lot of guys. But just building that doe base for three or four years, and hey, we took our licks in the show ring. Mm-hmm.

Sam Silvers: Mm.

Cade Halfmann: I mean, we'd scratch a little with the weather every now and then, but I just... Every day I'd go out and I'd look through the doe kids like, th- okay, we're on the right track.

Cade Halfmann: We've, we've [00:27:00] got the right mindset. This is... I, I see the vision. I see the vision. Now, you have to tell yourself that because when you're getting your teeth kicked in at showtime-

Sam Silvers: It's tough ...

Cade Halfmann: it's tough.

Sam Silvers: You, you, you, and you wanna scramble and make-

Cade Halfmann: Yeah.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. You, you- Yeah ...

Cade Halfmann: and so I think it was, it was kinda building that doe base and then going from there.

Cade Halfmann: And then we made some big purchases. Um, I mean, when we bought Beyonce, the doe that, uh, Sierra Martin showed at the a- one of the first Angelo doe shows, um, it was absurd. That was right before Jamie and I got married. And-

Jamie Halfmann: I just knew that... The only thing I knew about Cade was he had just bought this $30,000 doe, and I thought, "Okay."

Logan Newsom: You thought- I

Jamie Halfmann: thought, "

Logan Newsom: Okay." This guy's got 30,000 in his pockets- Yeah ... to sh- spend on a doe.

Jamie Halfmann: He just got way cuter. She didn't

Cade Halfmann: know that was all borrowed money. And we did that, and then the next year we bought another doe at the Angelo doe sale. And- And

Logan Newsom: so were

Jamie Halfmann: you flushing- Which we called her 19K. She was [00:28:00] from- Yeah

Jamie Halfmann: Pfeiffer. From Pfeiffer's,

Cade Halfmann: yeah.

Logan Newsom: Okay. And y- were you flushing on those at this time?

Cade Halfmann: We were flushing. Or was that kind of- I, I, and I'll, I'll tell you, I'll back up in my story. We'll kinda... I talk in circles a lot. The first year that I was in the business, I bought 25 does, kinda pieced together. Mostly Pfeiffer genetics, a lot of Wrangler.

Cade Halfmann: Wrangler was an incredible- Oh, yeah ... female maker- Yep ... back in, back in his heyday. That, that thing did a lot for us. Love those. Um, but that first year, this is a wild thing, and would never think about doing this again. I took those 24 does, I flushed every one of them in year one. Flushed them all, kept every doe kid, and bred them as doe kids Line back up, flushed me another 30 the next year, kept all the doe kids.

Cade Halfmann: So I went from 24 does to 300 does in two years.

Logan Newsom: For you folks listening, I'm not 100% sure that that's probably a sustainable business. That

Cade Halfmann: was a terrible business model- Yeah. ... but it was the only way I knew to grow- To

Logan Newsom: grow,

Cade Halfmann: yeah ... rapidly. Yeah. And then we could kind of peel back and say, "What's working?

Cade Halfmann: What's not?" Ratchet it down a little bit from there. But let's, [00:29:00] let's go full bore, full steam, and then kind of look up and catch our breath. Yeah. And that's, that's kind of what we've done, and then later on, like I said, when, when we bought those two high-dollar does, we were kind of establishing our donor base at that time, and We just...

Cade Halfmann: It, it made a lot of sense. And, and then we tried to go back and identify, hey, after these first five years, which doe families look like they're working the best? And then I said to myself, "I wanna sell everything that is not out of some lineage of these five or 10 does," whatever it was. And then we kinda regrouped and built around those.

Cade Halfmann: And that's kinda what we do. We kind of... It seems like we do everything on a yo-yo around here. It's five years, keep it tight, keep it tight, keep it tight, identify the does, keep those, and then we outcross. Yeah. And then we breed tight, breed tight, find the 15 or 20 does that we like the best, keep their lineage, [00:30:00] and outcross.

Cade Halfmann: And that's just kind of our... been our business model.

Logan Newsom: So whenever you, like, pull in here, you know, there's, there's a, there's a ton of Spanish does, recips there that, you know, you kind of... It's some of the first thing you see. What does that business model look like in today's world? You know, everybody, obviously flushing embryo work, IVF work is at the forefront.

Logan Newsom: If you're not doing it, you know, you're gonna fall behind. But at the same time, like, it's one of those deals that it seems like guys are just constantly flush, flush, flush, IVF, whatever, you know, whatever they have in the pen, maybe not necessarily identifying those ones that, you know, are the ones that have truly been the generators or maybe that, you know, that female line that's really working.

Logan Newsom: What does that look like in today's world around here as far as does to maybe AI does? Like in, in our house, we've got our donors, and then we've got kinda just what I call like our, our AI ewes. You know, they're, they're generating, they're good, they're making some sheep. They're not quite to the level of what I would call our donors, you know, and then we kinda have that stair step, and then obviously we have our recip, our [00:31:00] recips.

Logan Newsom: What does that look like around here in today's sense of where you guys are at?

Cade Halfmann: We are incredibly flush heavy, and sometimes I feel like we're over-leveraged in that department, and we learned some very valuable lessons about that this last year, and that's, that's one thing I think you'll get out of this hopefully, and the...

Cade Halfmann: what we've learned is, hey, it's not all sunshiny rainbows.

Logan Newsom: Absolutely.

Cade Halfmann: And some, some days, some months, some years, they hurt.

Logan Newsom: Bad.

Cade Halfmann: It, it, it doesn't always work, and whether that be the mating decisions that you make didn't work, you didn't use the best stock, whether that be a conception issue, which we dealt with last year and had to navigate through, and it was, it was tough.

Cade Halfmann: Um, and hey, we're at a point now where you're talking about, you know, your AI ewes. Man, we've about wrecked all the maternal ability out of these things. Mm-hmm. And to be real honest with you, it's terrible. We need to get back to old school a little bit and making these things be mamas. And so [00:32:00] to be real honest, kidding out of 500 naturals, not on my playbook.

Logan Newsom: Yep. Uh, we're breeding these things stouter than we ever have. We've bred... They've got sisters that we're trying to breed and- Boy, the kids are stout if you can get 'em out. Yeah. I mean, it all works, but that's hard. These... So we're way more flush heavy. And, and hey, last year our conception on our recips was abysmal.

Cade Halfmann: It, like, life-changing, c- could've put a real hurt on us. And if it happens again, we'll be in bad shape. Yeah. Um-

Logan Newsom: Well, I think that's something that people don't... They just ass- you know, "Oh, these guys got these, you know, these donors, and they're gonna flush 'em, and they're gonna average nine eggs, and they're gonna get seven of 'em all out alive, and life's good."

Logan Newsom: Like, how this is so easy. Yeah, it'll be great.

Sam Silvers: We were talking earlier, uh, on the flush deal and, and y- you know, you said at, at some point I think we're gonna have to have a serious talk, uh, to l- to let the public know that, you know, it's not all sunshine and rainbows, right?

Sam Silvers: Like, they, they...

Sam Silvers: P- people come to the sale or watch an online sale, and they think, "Man, them guys are [00:33:00] just killing it," right? Oh, yeah. We're just killing it. I mean, they're just absolutely murdering it, and the cost associated with just getting to that point, whether you're raising show goats or show lambs, is...

Sam Silvers: it's astronomical nowadays. It,

Cade Halfmann: it, it's obscene, to be honest with you. And it's just... I mean, the cost of living's high, going up. Sure. I mean, if you want the most expensive diesel in the world, you can stop in Garden City before you leave. And I think it was 572 this morning.

Sam Silvers: That's

Cade Halfmann: beautiful. So if you want some diesel, I would drive anywhere else.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. But, but that's... I try to explain to a hunter that works for me, we've had this discussion a lot, and, and hey, I, I, I wanna kind of be a mentor to some of these young guys that are, that are wanting to get in the business. The barrier to entry and the cost of entry is high.

Logan Newsom: Sure. High.

Cade Halfmann: And my advice is, I mean, first of all, find you a good banker that you can deal with that understands this.

Cade Halfmann: Banking is an important thing.

Sam Silvers: Sure.

Cade Halfmann: And it's kind of a taboo [00:34:00] thing, and nobody likes to talk about money. Hey, I'll talk about it. I don't care. You have to have relationships with people that understand what you're doing, whether that be your spouse, or your banker- Yeah ... or all the people that, that, you know, you associate with, they gotta have the same goal you do.

Cade Halfmann: And as far as the cost goes on this, it's crazy. I mean, if you think of, "Hey, I've gotta pay my house payment, and I need a barn to put these things in, and hey, it sits on a piece of land, so we gotta pay that, and we got a pickup, and we got a trailer. Hey, we wanna buy 10 donors at $10,000 a piece, and then we gotta have receipts to put 'em in, and pay our flush guy, and buy semen because we don't have a buck yet.

Cade Halfmann: And hey, all of a sudden you look up and you're five, six, $700,000, million dollars in the hole-

Logan Newsom: For sure ...

Cade Halfmann: and you don't have a baby yet. Nope. And that's where it can get a little dicey is- Yeah ... there's no guarantee.

Sam Silvers: And no insurance and no government subsidies- Yeah, none ... or anything like

Logan Newsom: that.

Logan Newsom: Well, and I think the hard part about that as much as anything, [00:35:00] and we, we...

Logan Newsom: And I know you guys last year, I mean, you kinda briefly hit on it. I mean, that- that's, you know, a conception deal, and I mean, it was tough. I, I think the... I think that deal is there's two things whenever those situations happen that can be so challenging to navigate. One, you still pay the flush bill. So babies or no babies, when they leave that day, that's how that goes.

Logan Newsom: You're paying

Cade Halfmann: there.

Logan Newsom: Yep. The second thing is- Me too ... is you have- Yeah ... you have these customers that are relying on you to have kids for them to purchase. And then in today's world, and I think we can all agree that customers can be a little fickle, and if you don't have babies for them to sell, they have no other choice than to go somewhere.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. Oh, this is a what have you done for me lately business.

Logan Newsom: Yep.

Logan Newsom: And so will those guys come back the next year whenever you have a good kid crop? You hope so. You hope that you've built some relationship with them that, you know, maybe they'll come back, but maybe they had a good experience with somebody else.

Logan Newsom: Maybe they won, whatever that looks like. And so then all of a sudden, one year [00:36:00] can really be like, "Holy shit, I'm fixing to start over because I didn't have sheep to sell to all of my customers. I didn't have g- baby goats to sell to all of my customers." And then all of a sudden, those guys... And, and, and in their defense, they had to go buy them somewhere, right?

Logan Newsom: I mean, they had to find goats to show, sheep to show, whatever. And if you're not, you know, there with them throughout the year, I think that's the big question is will they come back to us? Like, will they come back and look at whenever things kinda get back right? And that's something that I think outsiders looking in might not always...

Logan Newsom: You know, it's like, "Oh man, hey, at Halfmann, they didn't have as many goats to sell this time. They had a rough year, you know, conception, embryos, whatever." But I don't know if everybody really thinks about how that can all affect... And not only that, just- You trying to navigate it

Logan Newsom: Well,

Jamie Halfmann: it just set us back You two trying to navigate it Genetically, 'cause we were so excited to have all these Xanax babies.

Jamie Halfmann: And we had what? Five?

Cade Halfmann: Not many.

Cade Halfmann: Yep. Uh, me and RC, our springboerds, that was our deal. We had 300 embryos- Mm ... put in out of Xanax. Pumped about it. Yep. So I'm like, "Well, hey, all [00:37:00] these AI does, I don't need to breed them to him 'cause I got these embryo babies coming. They're gonna be..." And so I think we AI'd 10 does to him.

Cade Halfmann: And I think the-

Jamie Halfmann: And the babies we got were incredible.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, I think that those- But there was 10 of them. I think there was- Yeah ... like three males and they were the sale toppers. Yeah. And so that's, it's hard to ... The opportunity cost there hurts. And like you said, that's the opportunity cost with your customers.

Cade Halfmann: Will they come back? Are they loyal? What's it look like moving forward? And you just have to navigate it. And that's the thing, there's, there's so many things to navigate in this deal, and I feel like you asked a minute ago, wouldn't hear we're talking in circles again. Like, when did we feel like we got to a point where things were going our way and, you know, if there was a s- specific animal or whatever it was.

Cade Halfmann: I think that our biggest leap in the entire industry was when we started running this like a business [00:38:00] and not running it like a hobby.

Logan Newsom: I think that's fair.

Cade Halfmann: And, and having to really sit down and put a pencil to things, and make it all make sense on paper, and not just fly by the seat of my pants. 'Cause I, I was good at that.

Cade Halfmann: And, uh, that was also, you know, before I was married too. I had four or five years before I got married that I was just doing this deal, and it was, hey, willy-nilly. Like, if-

Sam Silvers: Four or five years of bliss is what you're saying?

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. Yeah, it was peaceful, quiet. Nobody told me what to do. Uh, but yeah. I mean, if I had enough money to put diesel in my pickup and buy a bottle of whiskey at the end of the week- Life was good

Cade Halfmann: it was all good. There was... We making our payments at the bank. Yeah. I could eat a steak on a Saturday if I wanted to. Life was good. But when we really started, when I started to think about, like, "Hey, I've got a wife and a family," and like you want to build something sustainable where you're not worried about what you got going on, that was when it, [00:39:00] we made our biggest jumps.

Cade Halfmann: And at the same time, hiring people to work here, which is a struggle for all of, we all struggle with- Yeah ... with labor ... getting, getting the right kind of help. And-

Jamie Halfmann: Well, and especially us, because we do live in the middle of nowhere- Yeah ... West Texas. It's a hard place to live. Yeah. And

Cade Halfmann: it's, not everybody's meant for this country.

Cade Halfmann: And so those two things, like running it like a business and getting people to, to work for us/with us, has been the biggest swing in our deal.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Jamie Halfmann: Which Hunter has been a huge asset to us, and- A

Cade Halfmann: blessing. For sure ... for sure.

Jamie Halfmann: Has totally done great things for Halfmann Livestock. So we, shout out to

Logan Newsom: Hunter, we could not do it without him.

Logan Newsom: There's few of those, um, you know, you call 'em employees, but that you could send to a show, send to a sale, and know that everything's gonna... And I mean, there's been plenty- 100% ... of times where you leave to go

Cade Halfmann: to a show or- Yeah ... you leave to go to a sale, and hey, you've got donors that need shots, or seeders that need pulled, or seeders that need put in- [00:40:00]

Logan Newsom: Yep

Cade Halfmann: one at a time.

Logan Newsom: Yep One at a time. One at a time. Okay, you talked about Xanax a little bit. You talked about, uh, you know, the, the feud that you guys had this time and, and, and kinda how things worked out. Um, I kinda briefly hit on it a little bit earlier. Big week in the Midwest. Um- Yeah ... won some stuff.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, Xanax, I, I, I, but don't even...

Cade Halfmann: This is, you're gonna put me on the spot here. I don't even, I know that in Ohio he had the, made the champion buck, the champion slick doe, uh, maybe another division when, I mean, they kinda just hitting all around it. I know that there's a couple real high rent does that will be showing in the fall that look incredible.

Cade Halfmann: Uh, I, I mean the, the Xanax deal is, I, I guess I gotta give Jamie some credit here. This is, this was- I mean,

Jamie Halfmann: just

Sam Silvers: my- Y'all- ... brilliant decision ... now y'all did sell a, a, a really high dollar doe, a good one, right? We

Cade Halfmann: did. We did. Yeah, we s-

Sam Silvers: And was that a Xanax too?

Cade Halfmann: That was a Xanax. Xanax. And then the- Yeah ... the one that Lane and Brody sold, uh- Oh, yeah

Cade Halfmann: at the exclusive- Yep ... as well was a- Yep ... Xanax. Okay. I

Jamie Halfmann: think both of the high sellers at the [00:41:00] exclusive were the Xanax. Were, were

Cade Halfmann: Xanax.

Sam Silvers: Okay, cool.

Cade Halfmann: And, uh, no, he's, he kinda made all our sale toppers, and, and looked to me like... Like I said, I gotta give Jamie credit. We were figuring out it was time to, you know, use a couple outside bucks and do some different things, and Jamie's like, "Hey, what do you, what do you think about trying this OBX deal of Pifer's?"

Cade Halfmann: Mm. And I said, "Hey, I like some of those." I, I thought that, I thought that there were some out there that, that looked like the right kinda... I said, "I, I don't know w- if he works on all of them, but I think I've got a couple specific females that I think he works really well on." So Jamie kinda picked the buck, and I hand placed him on some does, and I mean-

Jamie Halfmann: It w- just worked

Cade Halfmann: and, and the, the best part is he's got six sisters that are incredible. He was the only, there, there was three males. Uh, one of those we showed, been our favorite goat we had on feed. Had a little run of bad luck, but, um, then the other one was our high seller in one of our sales. I think he ends up s- I remember, I can't remember where that one did at [00:42:00] Kansas City, but anyway, um, just an incredible flush.

Cade Halfmann: The mom's great. The sisters are all great, and he, he looks like he works on everything.

Jamie Halfmann: A lot of different

Cade Halfmann: females. I mean,

Jamie Halfmann: we, we,

Cade Halfmann: we didn't sell the most semen on him last year of anybody in the business. I mean- But he went to... We sold semen to 20 different guys that had 20 different doe bases- Mm ... and they were all excited about the kids, and excited about, mostly about how few throwaways there were.

Cade Halfmann: And I think that's... When we can eliminate the bottom out of things-

Logan Newsom: Absolutely

Jamie Halfmann: Which you don't give yourself enough credit for the consistency in your goats. Like, we don't have throwaways. We don't pull any off to the sale barn. Thank you. They're all sellable, and you don't give yourself enough credit

Cade Halfmann: on that.

Cade Halfmann: I, I, I think that's... I mean, that's- That's a, that's

Logan Newsom: a big deal.

Cade Halfmann: It is. If you can eliminate that bottom end, it helps a lot, and Xanax has, has done that. And not only did he do that, but the cool thing you get to talk about is the ones that top the sales, and the ones that win shows and, and, and all those [00:43:00] things.

Cade Halfmann: And I think that his influence is really just getting started. Um, we've been very fortunate the last few months. This breeding season, everybody liked what they saw last year, and then through sale season, and he's been the most popular buck we've ever had the opportunity to sell semen on. And, uh, so we're

Jamie Halfmann: looking for big things.

Jamie Halfmann: And we're very grateful for people wanting to use him, and trusting in him.

Logan Newsom: I think that's an interesting topic that you hit on there, you know, like not having that bottom end. A- a- and I think that the... You know, and I'll let you kinda hit on it a little bit, but you know, making those goats that not only can top the sale, but that also are marketable.

Logan Newsom: A- and I think that also makes for a unique approach to having a diverse customer base. Not every one of those families that pulls in is gonna buy the one that's gonna top the sale. You know? One, 100%. A- a- and, and maybe that's a kid that just needs a county fair goat, you know, something that's solid, and go win their class at their county, and they're, they're happy, they're pumped.

Logan Newsom: Maybe that's a, you know, an ag teacher that's like, "Hey, I've got [00:44:00] some kids trying to go, but man, we can't buy these really, really high dollar ones." Absolutely. And so when you're starting to make those, I mean, one, it, it, it obviously says a lot about your breeding program and your philosophy and your mindset and, you know, all of the above.

Logan Newsom: But when you got a, a, an, you know, a, a sired group that you can start off selling, and then walk out there one day and that pen's empty, that, that's a big deal. Like- Mm-hmm ... sale toppers are cool to talk about. They're fun to sell. Yeah. Those-

Cade Halfmann: But the greatest ...

Logan Newsom: those other ones- ... is the rest of us ... is, is where it happens.

Cade Halfmann: And, and I think that, that Sam and I talked about this, this earlier, is, is, you know, we really need to hone down on- We don't need to just m- mass produce these things. We, we really... And, and we were just talking about our personal breeding programs before you got here earlier, and that's kind of our goal too, is to, is to just narrow that pool down just a little bit more, where, hey, we're gonna...

Cade Halfmann: And like I said, I do that about every five years, really [00:45:00] tighten it down and identify those does that we think we can make the least throwaways on. 'Cause that's- Yeah ... the cost of production's too high. I mean, you, when you figure up your feed and your embryo bill and all that stuff, hey, $1,000 break even is pushing it.

Logan Newsom: Sure.

Cade Halfmann: Uh, and, and that's just the facts. I mean, you, we get calls all the time for, "Hey, you got a $500 goat?" It's like, man, we, we, we really don't.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Like, that's not, that's- Not being rude,

Sam Silvers: it's just- Not being rude,

Cade Halfmann: but that, but that's the facts. And I think that people need to identify where the market's at.

Cade Halfmann: I mean, you can go to Bell Street- Yep ... and that's about the only place you can find 'em any cheaper than that.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: And, and I think- And they

Sam Silvers: ain't far off from that.

Cade Halfmann: No, not at all. Not at all. So I think if we can, we can eliminate that bottom end, it helps us a lot. But another thing I kinda wanna hit on there too, talking about things that top the sale and whatever, and, and hey, we're all three well-known guys in this business, and there is nothing more fun than cracking one off [00:46:00] for, you know, a, a big pile of money, and that's not what it's all about, but it helps pay the bills.

Cade Halfmann: But I also w-

Logan Newsom: I think it's really fun.

Cade Halfmann: I want to, uh, I want to eliminate this stigma too, though. I think that... I've talked with other guys in the goat business, and when you have that elite pool of breeders, and, and you have conversations, I think that, that a lot of people are scared to even call to come look because they think they all cost that much money.

Logan Newsom: Mm. Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: And they don't.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: I, I'm telling you, uh, we can accommodate any budget And I, I don't want that to affect people. Like, give us a call. We've got something that can fit your deal, and we'd be glad to help you through the program. But I think sometimes when, when, hey, we sell one- It's

Jamie Halfmann: intimidating

Cade Halfmann: for people.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, when we- Sure ... we have one that sells for $20,000, like, "Wow, we can't afford a goat from over there." Like- Yep ... no, you can. You can. We've got something that can fit your program, and, and you guys in all your podcasts talk about goals, and identifying goals [00:47:00] with your feeders, and being realistic about that.

Cade Halfmann: And I think that everybody needs to be on the same page. I, I agree. Like, that's one thing I, I do like that you guys have done with this, is really pushing those families. Like, let's set a goal first and be realistic. Where are we at? What are our expectations? Here's what we can do for you. And you guys have pushed that a lot, and I appreciate that.

Cade Halfmann: Because if we just have those hard conversations with the people up front, it makes things so much easier.

Logan Newsom: Well, I think sometimes people, you know, and I think you hit on that, you know, it, that it can be intimidating, and I also think that maybe some of those guys don't know, aren't aware, whatever that looks like.

Logan Newsom: You know, we talk about the embryo program, we talk about flush and IVF. That $20,000 one might have one of those skinny brothers that's sitting in there that you'll sell for 2,500, 3,500, wherever that, like, fits their budget, and that thing with a little TLC- Oh, absolutely ... and 90 days, it's like... Like, and you know what?

Logan Newsom: So I think that sometimes guys don't, they just think, oh, well, that's the market on what, you know, maybe those genetics are. No, [00:48:00] just... And I kind of, I don't wanna sound bad, but, like, you kinda gotta be a little bit of a stock person. Dig around there. Find you a skinny one. Go home, have you some confidence.

Logan Newsom: Be a good feeder. Take care of 'em. Work hard at it. It's amazing how you might, when it all gets said and done, I'm not saying you're gonna beat the one that, you know- Yeah ... sold for whatever, but you might be pretty close.

Cade Halfmann: But you get pretty close.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Not scary.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. And I think sometimes maybe guys, and you know, like, whether you wanna call it not confident enough in their own ability or just don't know, you know, that, that, that does happen, but there's a lot of those things.

Logan Newsom: You kinda dig around and you turn enough rocks over, you'll find you one of them skinny ones that'll feed and, and, and turn out, especially whenever we're talking about, you know, something like what you guys have done with that breeding mentality, with that philosophy, everything that you guys have put together from that standpoint.

Logan Newsom: But on the Xanax deal, tell some guys that are listening that might be interested that maybe haven't... I walked around the corner earlier and just was kind of kicking through, and I, I didn't even know that the bucks were back there, and I immediately walked back in and asked what that dark tape-shouldered one [00:49:00] was, 'cause that dude, like, he's impressive.

Logan Newsom: And I'm not gonna tell you that I'm a goat expert, but, like, that thing's staring at you and looking at you. That's a good shot. That,

Cade Halfmann: that thing is robust. I think is maybe the best word for him. Yeah. He's just- Crazy wide underneath, perfect body, gigantic feet, but his toes all go the right way, which I think is getting to be more and more important in everything- Sure

Cade Halfmann: that we're doing. And, and that's what, I'll be honest with you, like, we were kinda fooled by him and probably didn't breed him as aggressively as we could have because I'm like, "Hey, this thing's wide, moderate, and chunky. Better take him to some of those kinda more freaked out, wild-looking does that are a little more maternal-looking."

Cade Halfmann: And I, I guess in the back of my mind I never thought, "Well, let me go look at his sisters and see what they look like." And they are the wildest looking, best built. And so we probably didn't even breed him to the s- stouter set of does that we could have bred him to. Once, once we got babies, we're like, "Hey, these things are sound.[00:50:00]

Cade Halfmann: First of all, sound."

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Awesome. Got a lot of flexibility and foot size. They're not short on hair anywhere. Um, but then he's got that just punch and body that you gotta have at this point. I mean, especially in the South.

Logan Newsom: Absolutely.

Cade Halfmann: You know, those things- Yeah ... gotta have it.

Logan Newsom: Jamie?

Jamie Halfmann: We, I love Xanax. Breed Xanax.

Logan Newsom: Oh, the, the, the buck- The buck ...

Jamie Halfmann: Xanax.

Logan Newsom: The buck Xanax.

Cade Halfmann: Oh,

Sam Silvers: yeah. All right. Just making sure. I love Xanax from Jamie's side. Clarifying for the viewers here.

Logan Newsom: What is, uh, okay, so, you know, that, that's, uh, we talked about it a little bit I guess before. You know, you, you definitely jumped in with both feet on him this time, uh, make up for a little time for not having quite as many babies, you know, last year.

Sam Silvers: Had a g- had a good flush, though-

Logan Newsom: Good flush ... with this

Sam Silvers: past week. Tyson came

Cade Halfmann: and did some. Yeah, we, yeah, we did. We've, we've- Had an incredible run already this year, and I hope the luck stay. I hate to talk about it out loud- Yeah ...

Logan Newsom: because you're gonna

Cade Halfmann: jinx yourself, but- What, what...

Logan Newsom: Yeah, I saw in, in, in, uh, you know, uh, as I was, you know, creeping around and being nosy, uh, big Duraform guy- Oh, yeah

Logan Newsom: so, you know, we always like to give our, our [00:51:00] f- Ride, ride for the brand ... our shout-outs for ride for the brand, our free shout-outs to the Duraform company. Um, w- last l- It's coming. It's coming. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's coming. Um, last episode, or maybe one or two before, we talked on the, on the sheep side, you know, we're a little ahead of you guys, you know, as far as making them a little older or whatever, so we're kinda right in the middle.

Logan Newsom: The last two days we've been flushing at the house. Sam's got one coming up. We've done some AIs. Is there anything that you've noticed... You're in a similar climate than, than, y- you know, similar to what we are, similar to Sam. Um, you know, similar to probably a lot of our listeners. You know, we talk about the heat and dry climate and, you know, the challenges that can, you know, that that can present as far as trying to make some early ones.

Logan Newsom: On our last episode, we talked about kinda some of the stuff that we've been doing trying to combat that or whatever that looks like. Is there anything that you've noticed that has worked well to, to have success, whether that's AI-ing, flushing, semen quality? Any, any tips for the listeners that, you know?[00:52:00]

Cade Halfmann: Man, I, I think at this point, it's, it's all about health. I, I think that you gotta start... And that's the easiest thing to do, I, I mean, is have your stock in, in the right kind of body condition, uh, especially in the heat. I mean, I know I get hot during the summer. I'm a little fat. And, you know, if those does are over-conditioned They're gonna stress more.

Cade Halfmann: Their internal body temperature's gonna go up. You, you start to deal with some things there. Um, if they're under-finished or under-conditioned, hey, they're not doing any good either. I mean, those, those things are just- Mm-hmm ... struggling, those things that are, are lethargic and just d- you know, don't have that kinda energy.

Cade Halfmann: And I think it's finding the balance in terms of body condition to make it right. Um, I think having just a steady feed and mineral program is as, as good as you can be anywhere. And, hey, keep the bugs out of 'em. We're- Yep ... we're very simple. Uh, my dad used to call me Dr. Dolittle, and it wasn't 'cause I had a way with animals, it's 'cause that's what I did, very little.

Cade Halfmann: [00:53:00] And I'm a less is more kinda guy. Like, I, I talk to my buddies throughout the business, and they're like, "Oh, we give this shot, and this shot, and this shot, and this shot." And I'm like, "Well, is there any spot on him you haven't poked?" And I'm, I'm a less is more guy. I, I keep those things' bellies clean, get the bugs out of their bellies.

Cade Halfmann: No worms, no external parasites, good feed, good mineral, clean water.

Sam Silvers: Done.

Cade Halfmann: Done.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Just basic animal husbandry to me, I think that... And there, there's, there's different parts of the world that deal with different problems. I mean, we don't deal with a lot of pneumonia out here. It's pretty dry. Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: You know, uh-

Sam Silvers: Butt rot's not

Cade Halfmann: an issue. Yeah, yeah, butt rot. Butt rot's

Sam Silvers: not an issue, yeah.

Cade Halfmann: No, uh- Sure ... we just don't, we don't run into a lot of problems that some guys do in different clime- and even, even, you know, internal parasite load.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: We don't deal with it. And part of that has to do with, you know, we just run a glorified feed lot here.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: There's not a lot of stuff out grazing, uh, just 'cause we don't have access to it. There's just-

Sam Silvers: [00:54:00] Yep ...

​

Cade Halfmann: it's not called Garden City for any reason other than-

Sam Silvers: Yeah, and it's, it's-

Cade Halfmann: They, they, they messed up at the post office. Yeah. That's actually a true story. It was supposed to be Gardener City, and when they sent in the application for the [00:55:00] post office, they wrote it down as Garden City.

Sam Silvers: Garden City, so that's it.

Cade Halfmann: That's what it is. That's it. That's how it happened. That's real

Logan Newsom: life.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Hi- It's kinda like-

Cade Halfmann: Texas history right

Sam Silvers: there ... kinda like Eden does not look like Eden.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Compared to Garden City, it

Logan Newsom: does.

Sam Silvers: True.

Logan Newsom: What is, um, what else is on the, uh, what else is on the stud buck lineup that you've got?

Logan Newsom: I know that, uh, you kinda mentioned earlier, had a little hiccup with, with one of 'em that, you know, you guys have been, you know- Yeah ... had some success with last year, but maybe

Cade Halfmann: got- Yeah, we, we lost Loud and Proud last week. Really freaked deal. Won't get into details there, but it was just, we collect- We collected him- We collected him at noon, and at 2 o'clock he was dead.

Cade Halfmann: Dang.

Jamie Halfmann: We collected him. I took the semen, shipped it, and when I got back, I was down at the house, and Cade came down there and said that he had died within that 30 minutes that I was

Cade Halfmann: gone, so. I said it in a few more words than that.

Jamie Halfmann: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: But anyway, so yeah, Loud and Proud did a lot of big things. Horse that we owned with Layden Brodie, Layden and Brodie Halfmann, my cousins over there, they raised him.

Cade Halfmann: Uh, that thing did a lot of winning, made a lot of high sellers. Like, they, that's good stock. [00:56:00] Yep,

Logan Newsom: yep.

Cade Halfmann: Uh, we were pumped about him We kept a son this past year that we're excited about. He's just starting to wanna think about jumping a little bit. We actually, we flushed a few does to him this last week.

Cade Halfmann: What's his name, Crank? Yeah, we, his name's Crank. Crank the Volume. Be a Loud and Proud son.

Sam Silvers: Oh, not crank like the drug. I'd know if we were following a drug during-

Cade Halfmann: Either way ... that one. Either, I mean, it's a dual, dual word play. Okay. And, uh, so Crank is a Loud and Proud out of a sister to Madden Wise's reserve grand at Denver.

Cade Halfmann: Again, heir to the bear Popeye on bottom. And that thing does not look like a Loud and Proud. Uh, those things were dense and chunky babies, and he has got some air under him. His neck's a mile long. He's real wi- he looks more like the weather that Madden showed at Denver that year. Uh, just really elite in terms of his build and skeleton from the side.

Cade Halfmann: Uh, but when you grab ahold of this thing, he's got that Loud and Proud just it's there. Yeah. [00:57:00] It's, it's all there. Gigantic loin. Uh, way big feet, just feet. He's got some fur and hair, and we gotta have all that at this point just for the aesthetic of it, but this thing's got big feet. And- Just kind of an anomaly the way that he's bred to look the way that he does, and just kinda have that elevation, shoulder height, and, and presence about him.

Cade Halfmann: We're excited about him and, and look forward to that one kinda getting fired up here in the fall.

Logan Newsom: You had mentioned, uh, Halfmann Bros., you know, be- obviously being across the street. And kinda wrapping back around to your breeding philosophy, and I know Sam obviously has fed, you know, a bunch from those guys and, and had a lot of success.

Logan Newsom: What do those two breeding genetic trees look like? You had, you said that, you know, Lane and Brody had raised Loud and Proud. Was that a deal... Is y'all's stuff fairly aligned, or was that a deal that they've got some different wrinkles- It- ... and you kinda went and got- Yeah ... a little bit of an outcross- Yeah, it

Cade Halfmann: really is

Cade Halfmann: down the street? We, uh, you know, as close as we are, and we talk, I mean, I was at his house yesterday, even stopped on the way out, and he's up here once or twice a week, and we bounce a [00:58:00] lot of ideas off each other to look at a lot of things. But, but genetically, we're, we're decently different. Different.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. He's, he's outcrossed a few different ways than I have. Um, but when I saw Loud and Proud as a baby, I went down there, and they were getting all their stuff ready for the big sale weekend in, in Texas. And, uh-

Logan Newsom: Hangover weekend.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. And, uh, I went down there, and they got this thing up, and it was kinda neat looking, 'cause he only had one ear.

Cade Halfmann: And I'm like, "Hey, what's old Nemo look like over there?" "He looks pretty gnarly." And he's had this little old ear sticking out over here. And they propped him up, and I reached down there and grabbed him, and I, I, whoa.

Jamie Halfmann: You came up here and told me- I

Cade Halfmann: told, I- ...

Jamie Halfmann: we need

Cade Halfmann: to go. And I don't, I don't get excited about a lot of things.

Cade Halfmann: I came up and told Jamie. I said, "Hey, there's a buck down there I'm buying." And they hadn't told-

Jamie Halfmann: You said, "So go feel him," or, you know- Yeah, I said, "Go down there- ... "Go look at him" ... and

Cade Halfmann: look, and tell me what you think." "

Jamie Halfmann: But I'm buying him."

Cade Halfmann: I said, "I don't care what you say, I'm gonna buy him." And he wasn't really for sale that day.

Cade Halfmann: They were gonna cut him and haul him to the fever. [00:59:00] And I said, I was like, "Man, I just, I don't think that ear's gonna work." I said, "I don't think that's gonna work in the show ring." And it was on the show side. Show side. I said, "I think he's just gonna look a little weird out there." I said, "I probably, I wouldn't, I wouldn't cut him.

Cade Halfmann: I wouldn't cut him." Finally got them talked into it, and then the next week I said, "What's it cost? I want him." So we cut a deal, and it's been very good. I, I, like I said, a lot of success out of that deal last year, and-

Sam Silvers: And that, that's cool when you can do that with, with family

Logan Newsom: too.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. You know?

Sam Silvers: I mean, that, that's, to me, that's what it's all about,

Cade Halfmann: right? Yeah. Well, I mean, we're, we love to compete against each other, and we love to beat the other one, but, hey, we make it all work in the end. Sure.

Sam Silvers: Yeah

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Okay, so, uh, recap that and then, and then we'll take us a little break here. Xanax, okay, and Xanax is what?

Cade Halfmann: Xanax is an OBX, Freerein, Harlem Walk the Line, and then Crank. Crank will be a Loud and Proud, Heir to the Bear, Popeye.

Logan Newsom: And Crank is getting close on semen?

Cade Halfmann: He's-

Logan Newsom: He's, he's, he's skipping ... [01:00:00] we're,

Cade Halfmann: we're using... He's, he's not reliable every day, but he's making good juice. We're working on it. We just gotta get, just gotta get it out.

Logan Newsom: Which should work out good 'cause we're, you know, we were kinda talking about that, about how, you know, kind of our timings can differ. You know, we are just hot and heavy right now trying to make Januarys. Just kinda got done making some Decembers on the sheep side. You guys have a little run, and then y'all kinda got a little window here.

Logan Newsom: We do. And, um, you know, I think that's also... I, I guess I look at that with a little bit of, you know, jealousy and a little envious. You know- Mm-hmm ... we're trying to do everything July and August. Yeah,

Cade Halfmann: it's

Logan Newsom: miserable. And in the sheep world, you know, you gotta make 'em older. They gotta be more mature. And you guys actually have the opportunity to breed those goats a little more in season, you know.

Logan Newsom: And, and, and I would, I would assume, and especially in this climate, you know, if you can just start to get into that September, October and get a few of those breaks from 107 degree days- Mm-hmm ... and all that, I mean, how that can help. Not only probably on the female side, but semen quality and, and everything else.

Cade Halfmann: And team morale.

Logan Newsom: Ooh, yeah, that's a good one.

Cade Halfmann: When you don't- Team

Logan Newsom: morale.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. I like that.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, team [01:01:00] morale.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, I told Jamie yesterday, "Hey," it was 97 degrees at 10:30 yesterday morning or something. I said, "I got three degrees until I shut down for the day. If it's, uh, uh, past 100, the day's over." No.

Logan Newsom: Well, that's, uh, for you guys that are listening, you notice that Sam hasn't really said a whole lot.

Logan Newsom: He's been a little quiet. Um, Cade has it at 69 degrees over here in- ... in his office, and Sam is, uh, you know- It's cold ... his teeth are chattering. So he's, he's trying to get some words out whenever he can, but he's, he's, he's a little, he's a little cold-blooded right at

Sam Silvers: the moment. I'm not. I'm just here when you need me.

Logan Newsom: All right, so, uh, we've- we've talked a little bit there and- and kinda got the h- you know, the history. We've talked about, you know, foundation, uh, that was built- built here. I think, um-

Sam Silvers: Bucks ...

Logan Newsom: bucks.

Sam Silvers: Lotta- Geese. Can I call 'em billies? Is it-

Logan Newsom: Billy goats

Sam Silvers: does that offend you if we call 'em billy

Logan Newsom: goats?

Sam Silvers: It's

Logan Newsom: really billy goats.

Cade Halfmann: Only if you call them does and nannies.

Logan Newsom: Billy goats and nannies.

Sam Silvers: Billy goats and nannies. Okay.

Logan Newsom: Um, yeah, l- all- all stuff that's probably, you know, we're just a little too, like, tense.

Cade Halfmann: You're from- you're from the hill country. You can say billies

Logan Newsom: and

Sam Silvers: nannies.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Logan Newsom: Billies and nannies? Okay, so we've got- Secret gotchas ... we've got the rapid-fire portion that, you know, [01:02:00] uh, our production team put together. So we're gonna let- we're gonna let Jamie answer this. Okay. Okay? Oh. It's the first thing that comes to mind. Doesn't have to be anything that, uh, you know, necessarily, and it can be-

Sam Silvers: Just blurt it

Logan Newsom: out

Logan Newsom: yeah, whatever your thoughts are, okay? You don't- Be careful. You don't have to- Don't blurt it out. Yeah, you don't have- Blurt it out ... there's no filter here. We're- Okay ... Sam always says he likes to be raw and real. Yep. Okay. Um, what do you think the biggest mistake families make after they buy a goat?

Jamie Halfmann: I just think that the biggest mistake is they just don't take care of 'em the way that they should.

Jamie Halfmann: Um, for us, we don't do a lot of extra things. We just keep the environment clean. We do have 'em in air conditioning, and we feed 'em morning, noon, night. It's really not a hard concept, but for some reason, like if Cade will go check on projects or whatever, those simple things aren't getting done. And it doesn't matter how much money you spend on one, the day-to-day care is important.

Jamie Halfmann: And so just, it's not a hard concept to just keep their pen clean, [01:03:00] clean water, feed 'em.

Cade Halfmann: Can I chime in?

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Absolutely.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah,

Sam Silvers: 100%.

Cade Halfmann: I- th- I think that, uh, listening is the problem You guys deal with way more people than I do For

Sam Silvers: Jamie or-

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Silvers: Oh, you're talking about- Yeah ... okay, Mack. Sorry.

Cade Halfmann: And, uh, you can tell people all you want till you're blue in the face what to do, but if they don't do it-

Sam Silvers: Yeah ...

Cade Halfmann: it's a waste of everyone's time.

Logan Newsom: Yeah,

Cade Halfmann: for sure.

Cade Halfmann: And, and I think it's not that hard. Like, we genuinely want to help everyone. Yeah. Like, if you call me and ask a question, like, I want it to work for you, the advice that I give you. Hey, maybe sometimes my advice is not 100% spot on, maybe it doesn't work, but if you don't do it, or on the opposite side, or if you ask Sam, then you ask me, and you ask Logan- Yeah

Cade Halfmann: and then you do all of it,

Logan Newsom: all of it- Yeah ...

Cade Halfmann: and that's, that may be even worse than not asking. That's worse. That's worse. Yeah.

Logan Newsom: I agree. That's

Cade Halfmann: worse. Yeah, but you gotta find... You gotta listen. You gotta find somebody that knows more than you, or you think knows more than you. And hey, somebody that maybe knows less can give you a little advice and-

Sam Silvers: Yeah[01:04:00]

Cade Halfmann: anything. Like, but just

Sam Silvers: listen. 'Cause, 'cause I, I think if you, if you don't listen, at least you're, you're using your own brain cells to do something. Um, probably my pet peeve is somebody that listens to 70 different other people and-

Cade Halfmann: I don't know. I ask Cha- And I- I ask ChatGPT a lot.

Sam Silvers: And I don't get- Um- Like, I don't get mad about it.

Sam Silvers: I'm just like, "Okay, I'm... You know, whatever."

Cade Halfmann: You use

Sam Silvers: ChatGPT? I'm done. Absolutely, I do. Yeah. I don't ask it how to feed my goat, though. Maybe I should. Maybe that's where I'm

Cade Halfmann: going wrong.

Logan Newsom: Okay. Uh, most underrated sire at Halfmann Livestock?

Jamie Halfmann: Hmm. Is this for me?

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie Halfmann: Hmm.

Logan Newsom: Oh, my gosh. I've never heard her this quiet.

Jamie Halfmann: I think, I think- Try to see

Cade Halfmann: if she remembers their names.

Jamie Halfmann: I don't know. I think we could use Harlem, or we should have used him more in the last couple breeding seasons.

Logan Newsom: Seems like he shows up in a lot of pedigrees.

Jamie Halfmann: He- Yeah.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Yeah ...

Jamie Halfmann: is there-

Logan Newsom: I mean, like- ...

Cade Halfmann: in those

Jamie Halfmann: pedigrees. Because we,

Cade Halfmann: we, we cleaned up with him a little [01:05:00] bit last year, but it's, here again, this is that what have you done for me lately kind of business.

Cade Halfmann: Um, I think the most underrated buck that we've got in the battery is, uh, Bear The Pain.

Jamie Halfmann: Bear The Pain is a female maker.

Cade Halfmann: He is, I mean- He is a female maker ... makes incredible females, and then hey, about, you know, two or three a year, he'll slip out and have some just bang-up wethers.

Jamie Halfmann: Cason's shown- Several of them.

Jamie Halfmann: Yeah ... some beginner hanging wethers-

Cade Halfmann: Several of them ...

Jamie Halfmann: out of Bear The Pain.

Cade Halfmann: I think yesterday w- uh, there was a Bear The Pain that Kesters in Oklahoma raised as a reserve lightweight in Missouri. So I mean, there's people that are finding these like- That's true. He

Jamie Halfmann: probably is-

Cade Halfmann: Like- ...

Jamie Halfmann: an underused-

Cade Halfmann: But I think that, and we probably even underutilize him.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah.

Logan Newsom: Yep.

Cade Halfmann: Using him to make a lot of females and going back.

Logan Newsom: Yep. There you go. Okay. Um, buck you'd love one more breeding season from?

Cade Halfmann: Oh, I could think of about 14 of them. That's been another problem we didn't even hit on earlier. Um, like, we've lost several bucks in the last few years of just they die.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah.

Logan Newsom: That's just how it

Cade Halfmann: is. Yeah. You got livestock, you got dead stock. It's [01:06:00] part of it. And especially those bucks, they don't have a very long shelf life. Um, I would probably say- Uh, Robinhood. Uh, we got to use Robinhood for like a year and a half, and we were just fixing to just breed the farm to them. It was fixing to happen

Sam Silvers: Is that the Robinhood with the, the And tell me about, tell us about Robin Hood.

Sam Silvers: Like, who raised, well, did y'all raise- I raised him ... y'all raise Robin Hood? I

Cade Halfmann: raised him. You showed a few of those things.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Okay.

Jamie Halfmann: From Lane and Brody,

Cade Halfmann: right? And from Church. The one from Church-

Sam Silvers: Yeah, yeah ... was another one Yeah, that's right. Yep. Yep.

Cade Halfmann: The

Logan Newsom: Fort

Cade Halfmann: Worth though? Or

Logan Newsom: what?

Cade Halfmann: No, the, your San... Which one last year?

Sam Silvers: San An- well, the Houston one, was that a Robin Hood?

Logan Newsom: Robin Hood.

Jamie Halfmann: Yes, he was.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Yeah, the division two- Yeah ... the division two champ. Yeah.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Sam Silvers: Okay.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: So that thing, he was a little, bred a little different, and yeah, we were fixing to bet on the [01:07:00] and just moved him.

Sam Silvers: Did y'all own him with somebody else?

Cade Halfmann: Uh, Adam Keyes. Keyes. And- Yeah ... Levi Criswell and a couple other people up in the Midwest. Yep. Uh-

Jamie Halfmann: I would say second to none.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, the second, well, I would like to have that one back that we owned with Wentz. Um, he's still alive, he just went sterile.

Logan Newsom: Mm.

Cade Halfmann: Damn. Um-

Jamie Halfmann: I

Cade Halfmann: loved his offspring ... and that's, but that, phenotypically, that's my favorite buck we've- Yeah

Cade Halfmann: that's ever stood here. He was, he was real, real good. Yeah. And the babies were good. We had one crop and he said, "No more."

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Okay. Um, speaking of phenotypically, favorite donor that you guys have ever had?

Jamie Halfmann: Crank's Mom Yeah,

Cade Halfmann: that's what's wild. I mean, On The Huff, that's, that's the female around here that we love.

Cade Halfmann: I, I'm gonna go back. Jamie wouldn't even know about this one. This was r- literally before we got married. This was probably before this doe. There was a, there was a donor from Ralph Schaefer. Uh, I'm trying to even remember how she was bred. [01:08:00] Her tag number was 10, and I'll, I've just- I can see the doe in my mind, and sh- we trace her lineage back to stuff today, and I had that doe in 2010.

Cade Halfmann: Hmm. And I can still catch her multiple times in a lot of the pedigrees that I like here. Uh, she was a Y28. That's what, that's what she was. Um, incredible. Incredible female. Would still be relevant today, so.

Logan Newsom: That's cool. Interesting. That's cool. What do you think the biggest gamble that's paid off has been?

Cade Halfmann: Jamie.

Logan Newsom: Perfect. Um, what would... Hey, speaking of that, what would Cade say about Jamie, and what would Jamie say about Cade?

Logan Newsom: Jamie, you gotta go first. You gotta go first. Are

Cade Halfmann: you trying to kiss me?

Jamie Halfmann: I, uh,

Logan Newsom: I don't know. Well, they have, they haven't hugged at all, for of you folks that aren't watching, in years.

Jamie Halfmann: I think Cade is very brilliant when it comes to breeding goats, and he's a true stockman, and that makes me proud. [01:09:00] He's not just a jock that's gonna go and fed on 'em.

Jamie Halfmann: He actually knows animal husbandry and can think about genetics and what will work. He's very intelligent when it comes to that.

Logan Newsom: Concur. Cade?

Cade Halfmann: I think that Jamie is ... Jamie's a lot of things. Jamie's a really good backhanded motivator. She knows how to ... She's a good people person. She knows how to work people.

Cade Halfmann: She knows how to make you think in a way that-

Cade Halfmann: Probably gives you a different perspective, and that's what she does for me. Like, she gets on me and I give her a hard time about it a lot, but she makes me work harder and makes me think more than I probably want to a lot of the times, but it's all for the good of the, good of the program. And she's a pretty good mom, too.

Cade Halfmann: I'll give her [01:10:00] credit.

Jamie Halfmann: There you go. I love my kids.

Cade Halfmann: I mean, I don't know, you, people who've met Humble, they might disagree about

Jamie Halfmann: her parenting skills. If you're gonna judge my parenting, please base it off of Hazen. Humble is our, he's our reality check.

Logan Newsom: Wow. Well, Humble- Humble's our cub Do y'all

Sam Silvers: mount

Logan Newsom: cub? We mount for

Cade Halfmann: it.

Jamie Halfmann: Yeah, Hu-

Cade Halfmann: Humble's

Logan Newsom: our cub. Hu- Humble, uh, for you folks that aren't l- aren't, um, aren't 100%, you know, sure of, of what we're talking about, Humble's their youngest. Um, YouTube- Humble Outdoors ... YouTube sensation, Humble Outdoors. We're, we're looking at some opportunities to collab in the future with him.

Logan Newsom: Definitely. He's obviously at school today. Um, I know Hazen's probably practicing UIL. I don't know what Humble's doing today. True. Um, shooting birds with his- Shooting some lizards ... slingshot or catching lizards on the playground. But yeah, we, we've got some, we've got some collab opportunities with Humble Outdoors.

Logan Newsom: Mm-hmm. If you guys get a chance, you need to make sure and watch him on YouTube. Okay, wrap back around to, uh, we got one more and then you gotta make sure we wrap back around to it. Um, what is the biggest purchase that's kept you up at night?

Sam Silvers: Uh-

Cade Halfmann: That house sitting out there ... you saw it when you drove in probably.

Logan Newsom: We're gonna get to that. Um-

Cade Halfmann: [01:11:00] No, that's, uh

Cade Halfmann: I, I'll say this, and this probably did more for our business than anything. I don't know if I lost sleep over it. I was really confident in the decision. Jamie lost sleep over it and yelled at me a lot. Uh, it was in 2020, it was the day that the stock market crashed, and all went to negative dollars and all those things, and there was so much uncertainty in the world.

Cade Halfmann: And, uh, I told Jamie, I said, "I'm going to Macon's to look at some does today." You know, the world's- Macon

Jamie Halfmann: Stork? ...

Cade Halfmann: the world's crashing. Mm-hmm. Go to Macon's house, and, uh, again, said, "Don't spend too, don't, you don't need to spend any money. You, we got enough goats."

Jamie Halfmann: I said, "We have enough does running around here.

Jamie Halfmann: We don't need any more goats to feed,"

Cade Halfmann: were

Jamie Halfmann: my exact words. And

Cade Halfmann: I went over that day. I caught Macon in a weak moment. I had to spend plenty of dollars over there, and, but when I got home, in, in one singular year, we made, out of that set of does, we made Poke the Bear. [01:12:00] Uh, we made one and only that Moore Tweets had, that Droppers had.

Cade Halfmann: Uh, we made the Grand at San Antone, uh, all in year one out of those, that set of does I bought. And that was a purchase that was kind of on a whim, but I thought it was the right thing to do at the time, and it paid off.

Logan Newsom: There you

Cade Halfmann: go. Lost a little sleep over it. Jamie sure did, but I, I, I was confident in what I thought we needed to do, and it could've gone the other way, and it didn't.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Perfect. What is, uh... All right, right back to that. We gotta come back around to that last one. What is, uh, what's one breeder that you think more people should pay attention to?

Jamie Halfmann: I would say Jet Smith

Sam Silvers: He's in Stillwater

Cade Halfmann: He's in, uh-

Sam Silvers: Yep.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, he's a veteran of Stillwater. Yep, yep, yep.

Sam Silvers: Yep.

Jamie Halfmann: He's... We talk about how intelligent we think he is all the time.

Sam Silvers: Yep.

Jamie Halfmann: Especially when it comes to, like, the female side of things. I think he's really sharp-

Logan Newsom: [01:13:00] Okay ...

Jamie Halfmann: and reads them good.

Logan Newsom: Young kid. Mm-hmm. Yeah, making his way in the Still.

Jamie Halfmann: Yeah.

Logan Newsom: That's, that's exciting.

Jamie Halfmann: We just talk about him a lot and how- Yeah ... you just have a lot of respect for his intelligence when it comes to reading them and breeding them.

Cade Halfmann: I think there's a lot of young guys that are really talented, and I, but I think that, that they're really talented on the, the fitting and presentation side. Mm. There, there's a lot of those guys. I think that that's a young man's game at this point.

Logan Newsom: Sure.

Cade Halfmann: Um, and something that we're not really privy to in Texas, because they took all the rules out, you know?

Cade Halfmann: I took all the rules out, took all the fun out by adding rules, um, as far as how we're allowed to present these things or not present these things or whatever they're having us do.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Um, they've just kinda changed the rules where we don't get to develop those skills in Texas like everybody else does, and I also don't know that I wanna learn because then I would have to do it.

Sam Silvers: Yeah, I don't, I have no desire to do it, but I, I, I highly enjoy getting to go to- They, they look

Jamie Halfmann: awesome.

Sam Silvers: Yeah, to go to Arizona and, and-

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, we- we're at a giant disadvantage when [01:14:00] kids from Texas go to national shows- Mm-hmm. Oh, absolutely ... because they don't have that skill. Like, they just... And it, it's not that they couldn't do it, we just don't have the ability to learn en masse and don't have the necessity to learn-

Sam Silvers: Yeah

Sam Silvers: to- And they're, and they're so cool. Like, the does, like fitted does and stuff like that are just so cool to look at. Mm-hmm.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, and people are talented. I mean, they've-

Sam Silvers: And, and what they

Cade Halfmann: can do ... they have gotten good, oh, they've gotten good at

Sam Silvers: it. An hour on the stand and what they can do and make that doe or, or wether look like

Cade Halfmann: is crazy.

Cade Halfmann: Well, I remember seeing that, seeing the, uh, the, the s- I don't even have Snapchat, but I saw the Snapchats of before and after of your doe at Phoenix.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: I mean...

Jamie Halfmann: But I also think it's important as- Yeah, it's amazing,

Cade Halfmann: right? Yeah, yeah. We-

Jamie Halfmann: As an evaluator, you have to- Good doe,

Sam Silvers: but, you know- Yeah ... like, that

Logan Newsom: thing was- They're not listening to you.

Logan Newsom: They're

Jamie Halfmann: just talking about your doe. As an evaluator- Yeah ... you need to be able to read through a fit job.

Logan Newsom: Oh,

Sam Silvers: sure. 100%.

Logan Newsom: Like a doe. Like a, like- Like- ... an evaluator that's judging Kansas City?

Jamie Halfmann: So- Like, when Kansas City rolls around- Yeah ... I will be able to

Sam Silvers: judge- I heard

Jamie Halfmann: it,

Sam Silvers: I heard that maybe you're gonna get to do that, right?

Sam Silvers: Yes. At Kansas City?

Jamie Halfmann: Mm-hmm.

Logan Newsom: And what is that? That's, uh, the Doe Show?

Jamie Halfmann: Yes, [01:15:00] the Doe Show.

Logan Newsom: And Kansas City has hair does- Mm-hmm ... fitted. Just hair does.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Yep,

Logan Newsom: yep. And do they do a slick deal or no? Nope. So it's just hair. All fitted. Okay. Straight up fitted. Tell us about that. What's, what's that look like? What is- What's going on?

Logan Newsom: Are, are we- What should folks- ... excited

Sam Silvers: about this

Jamie Halfmann: or? I'm s- I'm very excited about it. I've been excited about it since they called me to do it. I've talked to Kate a lot about it. We'll look through the does and-

Sam Silvers: Do, do you think we could find a day when she's doing this and maybe we go set up on the side and commentate the whole time- Absolutely

Sam Silvers: that she's doing this?

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, I would like to be on that panel as well.

Sam Silvers: Yep, absolutely. Yep. You're invited.

Jamie Halfmann: It will be an incredible goat show. I've watched it for years. Um, it's gonna be tough, but like I said, you do have to be smart enough to read- structure, and we'll just kinda read through the fit jobs, and I will definitely be able to do that.

Jamie Halfmann: Okay. Which I'm excited for. As a- And I'd love to see 'em fit. They look so good ...

Logan Newsom: as a cattle background, Kate, are, do you land more on the, and as a, this is interesting 'cause you're a cattle background, but you're raising goats in, you know, far west Texas. [01:16:00] Um, do you land more on the sides of muscularity or structure?

Jamie Halfmann: Structure.

Logan Newsom: Jamie lands on the sides of structure. Okay. Excellent.

Jamie Halfmann: I will have those things judged. They'll take about five steps in the ring, and it'll be in the-

Logan Newsom: And it'll be done ...

Jamie Halfmann: up here.

Logan Newsom: Okay.

Sam Silvers: Done. J- you're just savant. Done.

Jamie Halfmann: Five steps. Ring- Structure is a big thing ... ring man. They can look as cool as they want standing there on the chain, but if they can't move, fifth.

Sam Silvers: Ouch.

Logan Newsom: So-

Sam Silvers: Okay ...

Logan Newsom: that probably brings up

Sam Silvers: an interesting- There you go. Do your homework, folks. If you're listening, do your homework. They can't all be

Logan Newsom: fifth. They, uh- That probably brings up an interesting topic for- You're gonna

Sam Silvers: have to find a winner, Jamie ...

Logan Newsom: for what your, uh- They can't all

Sam Silvers: suck ...

Logan Newsom: what your thoughts are on just judges in general.

Sam Silvers: Mm.

Logan Newsom: Do you have comments on that? I do. As far as-

Sam Silvers: Pretty strong opinions ...

Logan Newsom: as far as what a resume needs to look like to maybe, say, get a opportunity to judge at Kansas City or Houston or San Antonio.

Jamie Halfmann: Okay. So here's the thing about-

Logan Newsom: Or

Jamie Halfmann: Austin ... judges, and I am a 35-year-old young adult, so my opinions might be a little big when it comes to this, and that's fine.

Jamie Halfmann: But we are in the [01:17:00] trenches every day raising goats for a living, and sometimes the people that get to evaluate these shows, I don't understand what makes them qualified to tell me or any breeder that their stock's not good enough, and this is how we make a living. I don't understand what relevance they have to the stock show world sometimes.

Jamie Halfmann: I'm not saying that's every judge, but- Just most of them ... some of them.

Sam Silvers: Fair.

Jamie Halfmann: And it's a hard thing to, Kade and I talk about it all the time, it's a hard thing to do, to navigate when this is how you make your living, and sometimes you don't feel like the evaluators are qualified.

Sam Silvers: Mm-hmm.

Jamie Halfmann: It's a, it's a hard thing.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. So- If, if, if you really, I, I use this analogy, and Jamie and I talk about it a lot. It's like, like you're, it's probably a really dumb business to be in if, if in general you are forced [01:18:00] to base what you do off of the opinion of five guys that you may or may not think-

Logan Newsom: are talented

Cade Halfmann: enough to- Are talented enough to tell you if they can't do your business, I guess it goes back to the old adage.

Cade Halfmann: What is it? If those who, those who can't- Teach ... do it, teach, or whatever it is.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Well, I think I've always used the, the analogy of if those guys aren't good enough to go to the bank, like you said earlier, and sign their name on a piece of paper that says, "I'm good enough at doing this, that I can pay you back next year," I'm not 100% convinced that they need to be the ones that are sitting there saying, "You need to be first, and you need to be fourth."

Sam Silvers: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it, I mean, it, it's, it's, it's fickle. And, you know, we have a, a big young crop of, um, judges coming up that probably have only ev- ever evaluated animals four at a time.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah, and that's not necessarily- That's scary ... ago either. That's also very scary. Yeah. And there's a big difference between judging four and judging 400.

Sam Silvers: Yep. Yep. Yep.

Cade Halfmann: And the mentality of that. And, [01:19:00] and, you know, this is one of those things that- You appreciate when, when a guy steps into the ring, gets on the mic, and he's like, "Well, this one's the hardest one to make." Like, I can- I appreciate that singular statement maybe more than anything that gets said in a show ring about a piece of livestock.

Cade Halfmann: Like, that one's hard to make. When somebody can realize how hard it is to put pieces together on a, a said piece of livestock, that means a lot to me. Like, 'cause they realize, boy, you don't just make those kind.

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Like, there's some thought process, and hey, there may be some swings and misses there, too But you have to know how hard the game is To be able to evaluate the game.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that's also, you know, like, and, and, you know, we were in San Antonio the other day, and we were kinda talking about some of that. And I, I don't know if there's a perfect solution to any of it because we talked about, you [01:20:00] know, the young guys that are coming up, and you want them to have some opportunities, you know, and you want them to maybe be involved in some capacity.

Logan Newsom: And I'm not a two judge system fan. I just, I believe that if you're the guy that needs to step in the ring or the lady that steps in the ring, you need to be convicted of your thoughts and your opinions. Oh, yeah. And any outside noise can turn into chatter and change your whole demographics of what you're thinking.

Logan Newsom: So I've always kinda been, you know, a little bit anti two judge. But at the same time, like, we've got, you know, maybe some, some young kids that are trying to, you know, get in and trying to, you know, start judging, and maybe they're raising them. Maybe they are in the trenches. Like, what do you think that is?

Logan Newsom: And I know that's a tough question, 'cause I don't know if I, I guarantee you I don't know the answer. What does that solution look like to get them into the ring and maybe see if they can handle it?

Jamie Halfmann: It's, it's a tough... Here's the thing, and Kate has to remind me of this pretty [01:21:00] frequently, like when we're leaving a show, and I, maybe I'm not happy with how Hazen did or maybe- She

Logan Newsom: threw a sucker in the dirt

Jamie Halfmann: or maybe I'm ecstatic. It's-

Logan Newsom: Have you ever jumped up and down on your hat though?

Jamie Halfmann: It's such a subjective thing.

Cade Halfmann: You ever punched a wall?

Logan Newsom: No, just throws her sucker in the dirt. No.

Jamie Halfmann: Judging livestock is such a subjective thing. We all have our own opinions, right? What I think is the best one-

Logan Newsom: Sure ...

Jamie Halfmann: you don't think is the best one.

Jamie Halfmann: Mm. And I've had to kind of, sometimes Kate has to wrap my mind around that. Like, "Hey, just because that's what you think doesn't make it a right, the right answer." Yeah. So it is a very subjective thing. We all have our own opinions, but all I'm asking for from these judges is be confident in what you're doing.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Jamie Halfmann: Just be confident.

Logan Newsom: Be confident.

Jamie Halfmann: Yeah. Be accurate. And- Be consistent ... be

Logan Newsom: accurate,

Jamie Halfmann: and don't be- Yeah ... political because, hey, this is your friend, so this one gets along, 'cause it- So I-

Cade Halfmann: I don't know. I've got a hot take. I'd rather get beat by politics than ignorance.

Jamie Halfmann: Well-

Sam Silvers: I don't know

Jamie Halfmann: if that's necessarily a hot take

Jamie Halfmann: it's just, be-

Sam Silvers: Yeah ... confident

Jamie Halfmann: [01:22:00] in what you're doing.

Cade Halfmann: At least you know

Sam Silvers: where you- And, and I think, so I think, I think that's the argument, since you brought it up on some of it, right? Is, is, you know, if you bring that argument out is we need to get more breeders and people that do it to evaluate these shows.

Sam Silvers: But then the other, the other half of the people are saying, "Well, if you get all these breeders out here, they're just gonna take care of their customers and their friends and stuff like that." So, you know, it's a, it's a double-edged sword. It's, it's hard.

Jamie Halfmann: Yeah.

Sam Silvers: It's hard to find it, and it's hard to find

Jamie Halfmann: a good-

Sam Silvers: It is hard

Logan Newsom: a good match. It's hard, and, and it is. It's a double-edged sword, but I don't know if we're, I don't know if we're doing a very good job of it at the moment- But, but you- ... where we're at

Cade Halfmann: Yeah ... the, the deal is to me-

Jamie Halfmann: You just have to be confident enough to evaluate the livestock ...

Cade Halfmann: but you get guys in there that- that, one, have never raised a highly competitive piece of livestock, what- whatever that m- I mean, however you wanna look at that, or people that have never gotten to be on the show dad side of things and be competitive.

Cade Halfmann: Like, you have to get in the psyche of the game to know what's at stake, [01:23:00] what it takes to raise one, to show one, to feed one. And I think that, I, there's no way to make that a requirement to judge a show. There's no-

Logan Newsom: Yeah ...

Cade Halfmann: you couldn't, you know, put a checkbox next to it. But I mean, those are guys you need that know what it takes and how hard this...

Cade Halfmann: This is a, it's a game. It's a... Anybody that denies this is a game is a liar.

Logan Newsom: Mm-hmm.

Cade Halfmann: Yeah. It's a game. But every part of it's a game. The breeding part of it's a game. The selling them's a game. The showing them's a game. But you have to know, have people that know how the game is played.

Logan Newsom: Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Cade Halfmann: for sure.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Well, that's, that's, I mean, I don't think there's probably many folks that are, that are listening that wouldn't agree that we can all, you know, leave those shows and be extremely frustrated. And I don't know, we've talked about it before and, you know, maybe Kate is your, is Jamie's sounding boerd. Um, I think as we all get older and [01:24:00] kids show more and some of that, you know, you kinda, you can be frustrated, and that's perfectly fine.

Logan Newsom: And I don't know what that looks like if you just kind of become a little bit numb to it, or you're just like, "Uh, all right- To, to- ... we're just gonna, we're just gonna line up and do it again." I, I don't know. You know, that's- To, to rest,

Sam Silvers: to rest your mind. Uh, you know, I, I was, I was in this at, when I was 35, and now I'm 43, and a- as you get older, you learn to...

Sam Silvers: It gets better, right? Well, I mean- You learn to like- ... from year one

Jamie Halfmann: to now year four-

Logan Newsom: Oh, you're so

Jamie Halfmann: much better ... work... Oh, I am so much-

Sam Silvers: Oh, yeah, 100%. And I'm not,

Jamie Halfmann: I'm not saying-

Sam Silvers: Yeah ...

Jamie Halfmann: I'm good,

Sam Silvers: but

Jamie Halfmann: better.

Sam Silvers: Because I, I had somebody tell me years ago s- you know, sometimes you're gonna win with the best one.

Sam Silvers: Sometimes you're gonna, you're gonna get beat by a better one. Sometimes you're gonna win with a not so good one.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Silvers: Sometimes you're gonna get beat by a not so good one. Yeah. And as soon as you can come to terms with that, welcome to the stock show world. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: That's

Sam Silvers: just the

Cade Halfmann: way it is. And, and, and ultimately, [01:25:00] Jamie and I have kind of tried to put things into perspective a little more here lately- But at the end of the day, this is a really just a silly game.

Sam Silvers: Yeah, it is.

Cade Halfmann: It, it, it truly is. In the, in the grand scheme of life, we're not gonna remember... Uh, Jamie'll

Jamie Halfmann: never forget. I, I will remember.

Cade Halfmann: But you don't... At the end of your life, no one's gonna be like, "Boy, you know, you really took a hookin' at Houston that one year." No, that- Yeah ... that's not, at- No ... at the end of your days, that's gonna be the least significant thing that happened in your life.

Cade Halfmann: Yep. It matters a lot right now, and you get your feelings hurt, and we all do.

Sam Silvers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cade Halfmann: Yep. And, and, and hey, we may have had our feelings hurt by each other.

Sam Silvers: Yeah, 100%.

Cade Halfmann: You know? Like, we, we may... We've been on... You've beat me and I've beat you and-

Sam Silvers: So ...

Cade Halfmann: all the way around, and we can all be buddies at the end of the day, and we can raise our kids together, and our kids can be friends.

Cade Halfmann: And at the end of the day, that's the ultimate goal here. Sometimes we forget we're in the kid business. [01:26:00]

Sam Silvers: Yeah.

​

Cade Halfmann: [01:27:00] But hey, it's still dollars and cents to it, and it's how we make our living, so we gotta make it work.

Sam Silvers: Yep. Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: So the balance of that is-

Sam Silvers: And, and I think, I think try to make this industry as good as we can or get it back to center the best we can.

Sam Silvers: Um, y- you know, maybe, maybe that's, maybe that's our goal. Maybe that's where I'm at, where I... We talked about this, we talked about this before we started, you know. Are you worried about, are you worried about this affecting your kids'- Mm-hmm ... show career? Um, I don't know. I... Right now I'm just trying to do the best for the industry that I know how.

Sam Silvers: And- Yep ... and inevitably, politically, if that affects my kids, then so

Jamie Halfmann: be it. So be

Cade Halfmann: it. And hey, um, and I told you guy- I've told you to the guys since y'all started the podcast, like, hey, sometimes you just gotta say the quiet part out loud. Like, everybody's thinking a lot of the things that we're t- Yeah ... we talk about, and just having the stones to say it.

Cade Halfmann: Like, some things just need to be said.

Jamie Halfmann: Which is s- sometimes that's my downfall. Yeah. I just say what I think it needs to be said. Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: What does... You, you l- you [01:28:00] listen to Clayton Anderson's podcast, do you listen?

Sam Silvers: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: You know, what he'd say? He said, "Sometimes you gotta get a bloody nose to figure out how the playground works."

Cade Halfmann: Yep. Exactly. Like, and that's just kinda what this is. Like, put it all out there and- Yeah ... people take it how they- Kate's full of one-liners. He's full of them. Full of them. Yeah, he always is. What did he say

Sam Silvers: a while ago? Oh, he's good. "Oh, I got some furs"- Constant ... "furs and women to trade."

Logan Newsom: so as we kinda start to wrap up, we've had... You know, we could probably sit here in this 72 degree, uh-

Cade Halfmann: We turned it up ...

Logan Newsom: ice box here- It was like 52 I think ... and, and enjoy it, you know, for the next few hours. So as we, uh, as we wrap it up, we've had a tremendous amount of, you know, dialogue, intellect, ideas, thoughts, concerns, all, all of the above. What does, what does the future look like? You know, and we kinda, as we're, we're just getting done, we haven't probably talked about it quite as much.

Logan Newsom: We've been talking, you know, more on the production side and what, you know, Halfmann Livestock represents. But obviously have Hazen, who's in the thralls of her stock show career. Humble is on the cusp of getting ready. When does... What is he, second grade? Next year. Second. He's second grade. Second grade. One more time.

Logan Newsom: So yeah, so you [01:29:00] got one more trip around the sun before, um, that mayhem starts. But, uh, what, what does, what does the future of Halfmann Livestock look like? What's the future? I mean, uh, you know, again, kinda talked about the kids briefly in, in the stock show scene, stock show mom, stock show dad. What's, what's the next three to five years look like?

Logan Newsom: What's the idea? What's the goals? Where are we headed?

Jamie Halfmann: Well, we obviously have big goals for Hazen. Um, and Humble is, I think once he starts, will get really into it. You know, we just try to raise our kids... After school, we have a little routine. They go to school, and then we get to spend our evenings with our kids in that barn.

Jamie Halfmann: And so honestly, that's just what we wanna keep doing. It's such a great way to spend quality time with your kids. It's not always fun, and we're hard on our kids. We expect a lot. We're competitive, but I just can't think of anything that I would rather do than be with them raising their show projects.

Jamie Halfmann: Yeah. So we'll just continue to do that and try to be as competitive as we can, and [01:30:00] a lot of the times you just have to have lady luck on your side, and I hope that we do.

Logan Newsom: Yep. Hazen had a big year last year. She did. Wins Dallas Goat Show, wins San Antonio Sheep Show.

Jamie Halfmann: Yep. Yep. And we just-

Logan Newsom: Great year ...

Jamie Halfmann: felt so-

Cade Halfmann: Great year

Jamie Halfmann: grateful for that.

Cade Halfmann: And, and that's, you know, uh, we talked earlier, um, hit on it earlier. I said, you know, 90% of the time, this is not fun. Yeah. 10% of the time it is, and, and, you know- The day after you win, you put your head back down and you go back to the drawing boerd and- You better ... and it, it starts over.

Cade Halfmann: Because if, if you don't, that's anything, I, I think you talk about that in your breeding program, like, don't get stagnant. Like, don't think that you've got it- Got it figured out ... got it figured out. Yeah. Because as soon as you do, they'll pass you by. And so it's just trying to find the next big thing, and trying to make the next decision that, you gotta have a five-year plan.

Cade Halfmann: You can't be so shortsighted in this deal, because they will leave you behind, and you will not last. There's a lot of guys that come in like a flash in a pan, spend big money, get in the business, look up in five years and like, [01:31:00] "Whoa, this is not that easy," and they're gone.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: And I think just to build a sustainable product when everything that we do, and the stock that we produce, and the kids that we make, human and goat kind- Yeah

Cade Halfmann: like, that's what we're trying to do, just make a sustainable product, uh, that we're proud of, and that makes the next generation better. Again, goats and humans. And that's kinda what, what our goals look like there. Jamie's got a little launch of a deal she's gonna roll out in the next month probably.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, we, uh, we have a somewhat of a, an unveil-

Logan Newsom: uh, of what's, what's coming. I know there's been a little bit of Instagram chatter.

Jamie Halfmann: Yes.

Logan Newsom: Goop.

Jamie Halfmann: Goop. So we talked about how the haircare part of the goat side was kind of my role. And so I started kinda being a mad scientist in the kitchen, and making different formulas for a conditioner, and it will actually launch in maybe about three more weeks or so.

Sam Silvers: Hopefully.

Jamie Halfmann: Just kinda tying up some loose ends. But [01:32:00] we call it Goop, and it's magic in a bottle, and you should definitely try some.

Logan Newsom: And this, you get it from the Dollar General in Garden City? Absolutely. Is that kinda where all your- Yeah, right off the shelf. Sure. Yeah, you, yeah, you, yeah, right off the shelf.

Logan Newsom: Uh- Two for five. No, but, uh- Yeah ... I don't know, how, have you been doing it since how long? 'Cause I feel like you've been talking about it for

Jamie Halfmann: a couple years. S- I've been talking about it for a while. So Hazen has been showing for three years, and it was probably, this will be her fourth year, so we've probably been in the works with this for two, two and a half years, and I feel like I've finally got it perfected.

Jamie Halfmann: We have not had skin issues with our goats. We did the first year, and since we've started using this, we have not. And so I'm hoping that it can be the answer to some problems that people have, like, on the staff side of things- Boy, I, and I'm in, I'm in ...

Cade Halfmann: with goats. And, and hey, we're, we're not gonna sit here and claim to be mad scientists or, like, we've, you know, landed on the moon or something, but we've got a product here that, that we believe in, and that we-

Jamie Halfmann: Nourishes the skin and hair

Jamie Halfmann: that we've made work- And we're proud of it.

Cade Halfmann: And-

Logan Newsom: How is, um, how do you, how do you use it?

Jamie Halfmann: So you just use it like a regular [01:33:00] conditioner. You can shampoo your goat first, and then I like to just put a goop ... I guess I call it goop 'cause it just looks like a big old goop of conditioner in your hand. I

Sam Silvers: don't know what a

Jamie Halfmann: goop is.

Jamie Halfmann: I don't know what a goop is. And I- A glob or blob ... put it on- Blob, yeah. Put, put it on the goat, rinse it a little bit, and then just scrub it in with a brush. I let it sit for 10 minutes, and then rinse it off. It's- Okay ... pretty easy stuff.

Logan Newsom: Perfect. Okay.

Sam Silvers: We're looking- Looking forward to that.

Jamie Halfmann: Yep.

Sam Silvers: Well, we'll

Logan Newsom: send- And it's-

Logan Newsom: you guys samples.

Jamie Halfmann: We'll send samples today.

Logan Newsom: Samples, but I wanna be clear, it is for human and- You can use it- ... goat use and animal use ...

Jamie Halfmann: you can use it on yourself. You can use it on any specie of animal. You can use it on

Sam Silvers: a friend.

Logan Newsom: S- Sam will, uh,

Sam Silvers: we'll- Jamie said it might even make my hair grow back.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Oh, I don't know.

Logan Newsom: It's supposed to nourish the hair. Mm-hmm. Uh, you don't have- Well, it might

Sam Silvers: nourish the

Logan Newsom: scalp. You don't, yeah. Nourish the skin. Yeah. Oh, nourish the skin. Maybe that'll- Oh ... revive whatever he's got going on. Sam, you know, he's got the, I like to call it the principal cut, you know, where nothing's on top. It's just the stuff on the side.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Sam Silvers: I do the best I can.

Cade Halfmann: We got a principal and a JV [01:34:00]

Logan Newsom: dodgeball coach over here. JV dodgeball. Yeah. Yeah. JV dodgeball baby. Okay. So, uh, yeah, I think that's probably a, a, I mean, let's be honest, that is probably ... And, and on Drenchline so far we've probably fell a little bit in the role of focusing on the sheep side a little bit more than the goat side.

Logan Newsom: But if you are in the goat game, there is nothing, I don't care what it is, there's nothing more frustrating than skin issues.

Cade Halfmann: I

Logan Newsom: agree. And when they raise their head, because it doesn't usually happen this time of year. It's usually- No, it-

Cade Halfmann: Right before the show ... happens when it matters.

Logan Newsom: Yep.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Usually about the time you're clipping-

Logan Newsom: Yep

Logan Newsom: getting

Sam Silvers: ready to load on

Logan Newsom: the trailer. Yep. And that is, that is without question, I mean, something that ... And, and not only frustrating, but, like, detrimental. I mean- It's

Sam Silvers: totally detrimental.

Cade Halfmann: Oh, the, my, the, our favorite goat that we've ever had on feed in Hayden's show career never walked in the ring.

Logan Newsom: Yep.

Cade Halfmann: We never hauled him anywhere.

Cade Halfmann: We sheered him to go to Fort Worth. We were- And I

Jamie Halfmann: was so sure of that goat. I've never been more confident, and we didn't even- It's one- They sheered, and- It's- ... they said, "I'm not letting [01:35:00] her walk a goat in."

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Jamie Halfmann: She, she can't.

Cade Halfmann: It's a humbling game. Yep. That is. And that's-

Jamie Halfmann: I'm not letting her walk a goat in with this kind of staff.

Jamie Halfmann: She can't do it.

Sam Silvers: Yep.

Logan Newsom: Yep. No, it's- Yeah ... uh, it is. It, it's, it can be tough. It can, it can be frustrating. And so even if it, uh, if it doesn't cure everything, if it's some sort of line of defense or, you know, an opportunity to combat some of that, it's- it's worth whatever price that you put it on as far as I'm concerned.

Logan Newsom: Yeah. Very good.

Sam Silvers: Well, I wanna say thank y'all both-

Logan Newsom: For sure.

Cade Halfmann: Thank you ...

Sam Silvers: for having us out. Thank you guys. Telling us about the operation. Um, always enjoy getting to visit with both of you. It's at stock shows, on the phone, whatever. Um, for those of y'all listening, come to Garden City. Look at goats. Halfmann crews are good people.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Actually pull in the gate. It's the way to go. Come look at them. Not only good goats, but good people.

Cade Halfmann: We're doing our best. But no, thank you to you guys too. What the Drenchline is becoming is awesome. I'm What started as just a small [01:36:00] idea, I feel like, I just feel like y'all brought this up in casual conversation at times.

Cade Halfmann: And it seemed like maybe a joke of a little bit at times that the two of you were gonna get on a podcast and do it together.

Logan Newsom: I think the first, like, seven episodes were, and then all of a sudden-

Cade Halfmann: Yeah ... yeah. But, but no, like, yeah, I think it's been-

Sam Silvers: Now he's all serious about

Logan Newsom: it.

Cade Halfmann: It's been really educational.

Cade Halfmann: I mean, hey, I learn stuff.

Jamie Halfmann: Cade

Cade Halfmann: loves listening to it. I watch, watch every episode.

Sam Silvers: Jamie, have you ever watched an episode?

Jamie Halfmann: I, this, this'll be my first one. I'll watch- She'll watch herself ... the other episode.

Sam Silvers: You watch yourself? I'm, I'm disappointed in you, Jamie.

Cade Halfmann: Patten Pass Commissioner and stuff,

Jamie Halfmann: yeah. Maybe-

Sam Silvers: You, you need to go watch the Brian Ferris episode.

Sam Silvers: You will learn a lot. I

Jamie Halfmann: will. Yeah. I will. It'll

Sam Silvers: be very educational for you. Yep.

Jamie Halfmann: I've been busy trying to get Goop ready to launch, guys. I haven't had time to sit around and watch podcasts. Yeah. But I will circle back, and I will watch it.

Sam Silvers: Okay. I'm, I'm gonna hold you to that.

Jamie Halfmann: Okay.

Sam Silvers: All good. Thank you. Yeah.

Sam Silvers: Yeah. Thanks again. Yep. Be sure to like, follow, subscribe. Check us out on drenchline.com. Keep submitting those questions. Um, I know that we have an episode coming out shortly of some more of the questions that we've answered. Um, so keep [01:37:00] submitting them. We will get to them. We can't get to them all in one day 'cause there's been hundreds of them.

Sam Silvers: But thank you for submitting. Sam Chobey's only

Cade Halfmann: one man.

Sam Silvers: He is only one man. That's right. I'm the only one man. And y- Robin, you know- ... Batman over here. Yeah. He, he tends to show up late to the, to the fight, but-

Logan Newsom: You gotta shine your deal.

Sam Silvers: Oh, yeah. I gotta send the bat signal

Logan Newsom: out. You gotta send the bat signal out.

Sam Silvers: I'll get on that.

Logan Newsom: Uh, we've got a couple more episodes coming out. Um, kinda gonna get back, for you guys that are listening, the last few weeks, you know, we kinda talked about at the beginning, last few weeks we've kinda done some stuff that's a little different. Yeah. We'll get back to kind of a little more of our routine as far as things we're seeing at the house, what to look for, timing, uh, kinda getting ready for a little fall fair run.

Sam Silvers: It's coming.

Logan Newsom: Sam's, uh, Sam's getting those things kinda dialed in and tuned up. What's, what is it? What's the next, what's the next show? Actually, all you guys, uh, you- surely you're going to Boomtown?

Jamie Halfmann: I'm gonna- Cade has to judge in New York, so- New

Cade Halfmann: York?

Logan Newsom: New York City.

Cade Halfmann: New York. Okay.

Logan Newsom: How about

Jamie Halfmann: that? So I d- don't know if Hazen will allow for me to take her without-

Logan Newsom: That is one of the shows that actually has AC.

Logan Newsom: [01:38:00] For you guys that, that are listening, Jamie has a strict AC policy. I,

Jamie Halfmann: we, I like an air-conditioned facility.

Logan Newsom: Yep. I'm

Jamie Halfmann: not gonna lie. That's it.

Logan Newsom: Yep. So I just knew, I just knew for sure y'all were coming.

Sam Silvers: I, I will not be going to the Boomtown.

Logan Newsom: You don't, you don't go there. No. You got, you don't do West Texas Fair.

Sam Silvers: No.

Logan Newsom: What is, what's the next one? What's the next one? He's judging West Texas Fair. The docket for the Silvers family.

Sam Silvers: That's the first question I ask.

Logan Newsom: I don't know. Clay Burson.

Sam Silvers: Okay. Um, what, now, what were you saying, sir? Where are you, where are you

Logan Newsom: going next? Where are you going next? Where you going, Chobey?

Sam Silvers: Uh, State Fair of Texas.

Logan Newsom: Oh, my goodness. See, this is what Sam likes to do. He likes to come out, and he likes to just throttle everybody. Start early, start

Sam Silvers: early.

Logan Newsom: And then he's like, "All right. I'm just gonna go home now. Take my toys and go home."

Sam Silvers: He's still mad I throttled him at Medina. He,

Logan Newsom: like, won Medina seven years in a

Sam Silvers: row or something.

Sam Silvers: Old Scratch is what we call him, Old Scratch. Mm.

Logan Newsom: Yeah.

Cade Halfmann: Where are you showing?

Logan Newsom: We'll be at Andrews. Yeah, Boomtown. Uh, that's, that's... We, we actually have not probably been out as much this year it feels like. Um, not for any other reason than- We probably had a few young ones that weren't quite ready, and we kind of had a few that we got out early.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, I- And then my kid thinks he has to be the super [01:39:00] manager for, you know, every sports organization in the

Sam Silvers: 806. I think, let, let's be honest, we had a lot of fun this summer. Yeah,

Logan Newsom: yeah.

Sam Silvers: I mean, we, we took the boys and kids and did things that, instead of jackpots and messing with sheep- Yeah ... I mean- Yeah, we did some of that

Sam Silvers: we played plenty of golf and had some, had some good times and did some vacations and stuff. So- Will

Logan Newsom: y'all do West Texas Fair? Y'all do Permian Basin maybe?

Cade Halfmann: No.

Logan Newsom: No?

Cade Halfmann: We're, we're not really, we're kind of fair weather fair people.

Logan Newsom: Okay.

Sam Silvers: Fair enough. We'll

Cade Halfmann: s- Fair.

Logan Newsom: Get ready for Dallas. Yeah.

Jamie Halfmann: Get ready for Dallas.

Jamie Halfmann: Big D. Yeah, '

Cade Halfmann: cause that's an air conditioned facility.

Logan Newsom: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, so, uh, yeah, that's kind of what some of the next topics we got. We'll kind of get back in tune with, uh, things that we're doing at the house, stuff that's going on, important things to watch for, all the issues that each one of us might be facing, whatever that looks like.

Logan Newsom: So in the meantime, subscribe like Sam said. Thanks for reaching out. Enjoyed it. You guys take care.

Sam Silvers: See you on the next one.