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Stories of veteran service and sacrifice straight from the people driving today’s most important veterans causes and veterans organizations around the world. The show shines a spotlight on their inspiring projects making a real difference for veterans and their families, and along the way we'll hear the stories that drive them to do their best every day as they work to support veterans and their memory.
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Speaker 1
Hey, it's Matthew Cudmore, a story behind the Stone, a show where we talk service, sacrifice and story.
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Speaker 1
Connecting you with individuals. Changing the way the world remembers in veterans causes and commemorations worldwide. The other day we sat down with Jeremy Diamond, Public historian, a champion for history and CEO of the Royal Canadian Air Force Foundation.
00:00:24:05 - 00:00:34:00
Speaker 1
Under his leadership, the foundation is commemorating 100 years of history of the RCAF and also looking forward to the future to the next 100 years of the RCAF.
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Speaker 1
It's redefining how we engage with Canadian military history, from scholarships for future aviators to national events that honor the past. The RCAF Foundation is taking
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Speaker 1
flight and forgive me for this one in more ways than one.
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Speaker 1
The RCAF turned 100 years old in 2024,
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Speaker 1
and there's never been a better time to talk about the people, the programs and the planes
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Speaker 1
that has shaped a century of Canadian air power.
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Speaker 1
Jeremy, thank you so much for joining the show today. It was great to chat with you. And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in.
00:01:07:06 - 00:01:25:01
Speaker 1
Welcome to the story behind the Stone, where we talk service, sacrifice, and stories connecting you to the past and the most interesting people in the field of veteran causes and commemorations. My name is Ryan Mullins, along with Matthew Cudmore. We're with Memory Anchor, a company committed to using technology for good as we change the way the world remembers.
00:01:25:03 - 00:01:32:03
Speaker 1
Today, we're joined by Jeremy Diamond, the CEO of the Royal Canadian Air Force Foundation. Jeremy, welcome to the show.
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Speaker 2
Thanks for having me, Guy. It's great to be here.
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Speaker 3
Yeah. Jeremy, great to see you. Just to give a little bit of context to our listeners, we'd love to just give some insight into who you are and who the foundation is.
00:01:42:00 - 00:02:22:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm, right now on the RCAF Foundation founding CEO. I've been a public historian for about 30 years. Master's degree in public history from the University of Waterloo a long time ago. And, spent much of my career telling Canadian stories, sort of promoting and presenting history to the public, whether that's through telling stories and speaking to veterans or highlighting the work of indigenous artists and authors, or working with new Canadians to talk about their story and how they're, a ride in their journey to Canada all around that idea that Canada has many stories, many diverse stories, and many voices.
00:02:22:23 - 00:02:40:08
Speaker 2
And I've been extremely fortunate and very lucky to not only work within organizations that have done that, but also lead those. And then in the case of the RCA Foundation, founded an organization like that. So, thrilled to be here and thrilled to partner with you guys on, the incredible work that you do as well.
00:02:40:10 - 00:03:03:04
Speaker 1
That's awesome. Jeremy. And, you know, I really appreciate you coming back. You actually play, a significant role in our company, going back to your time with the Vimy Foundation and the project I had done years ago with the Vimy Flute. And, you know, you've been pretty active in the commemorative space. I'm curious. Like, what? What's what's the passion?
00:03:03:04 - 00:03:05:22
Speaker 1
What what brought you into the commemorative field?
00:03:06:00 - 00:03:29:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I even take a step back from there. And, in terms of what has inspired me and brought me into history, I, you know, I had an incredible, history teacher, in grade 13, in high school, who not in Canadian history, but would get up on the tables and recite the French national anthem at the top of his lungs as we were learning about the French Revolution and then slam the door.
00:03:29:06 - 00:03:48:02
Speaker 2
If anybody was one minute late and I looked at it and said, well, history isn't actually that boring, it's pretty fun and pretty interesting, especially if it's taught that way. And up to that point, I was 18, 19. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I, I had an interest in sports. I had an interest in music, but I didn't know career wise what I wanted to do.
00:03:48:03 - 00:04:09:01
Speaker 2
And it, and it was hurt and it it created a lot of anxiety and uncertainty for me during that time. And then he came along and then I thought, I can do this. I can take courses, I can watch documentaries, I can read more about history. And it took me down this amazing path of undergrad in the graduate school and thinking that history could actually be a career.
00:04:09:03 - 00:04:31:01
Speaker 2
But one of the first gigs that I was able to feel very lucky, to do was in the commemoration, throat, year of the veteran, which was 2005. So what, we're in 2025. So the 70th, of, of a lot of us, I'm doing the math drawing to edit that out. It's the 60th, the 60th.
00:04:31:03 - 00:05:03:04
Speaker 2
So feel very honored to be able to be connected to an organization and projects related to year of a veteran in 2005. So the 60th anniversary of the end of the Second World War, just coming off the 60th of D-Day. And then we started to build around that time, something called the Memory Project Speakers Bureau, and then the complementary piece, the Digital Archive, where we interviewed and digitized and photographs, memorabilia and artifacts from veterans that were involved in those conflicts.
00:05:03:06 - 00:05:30:10
Speaker 2
So that commemoration piece, 2004 D-Day, 2005, year of the veteran and the 60th of the end of the of the War in Europe was the the first time that I was involved with really something that had, a commemorative, sort of element to it, and comes with events and going overseas and and really trying to get media excited and interesting on, on something that was, a significant date or anniversary.
00:05:30:10 - 00:05:42:23
Speaker 2
And then I kept on doing those things, throughout my career. And history's great for dates and great for commemoration. So as long as we have anniversaries in Canada, I'm pretty sure I'll stay in place for the next 10 or 15 years.
00:05:43:00 - 00:06:07:20
Speaker 1
Well, that's awesome. And you know, I love that, that connection to that teacher. And it's funny how the passion people can share can ignite the passion in others. And as I see the different work you you do, you know, whether that is with the RCAF Foundation or in other areas. It's really a lot about sharing passion and and story for sure.
00:06:07:22 - 00:06:23:08
Speaker 2
It's all about storytelling and it's all about following your passion and your interest. And what's the old saying that if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life? And, I subscribe to that. Tell my own kids that that you may not know what you love and you're interested in yet, but you will.
00:06:23:10 - 00:06:44:10
Speaker 2
And following that, will make your career really enjoyable and meaningful. And, and history is a perfect example of that. I mean, history at its core is stories, is storytelling is engaging the public on not only Canadian history proper, but their story, you know, people come to me often and say, well, I don't even really like history.
00:06:44:11 - 00:07:02:05
Speaker 2
I don't, you know, I only really interested or enjoy it. I'm like, what's your story? Tell me a bit of your story. Where are your parents from? When did you come to Canada? Where are your grandparents from? You know what? What did they do? And it sets people on this road, to talk about their own personal narrative, their own personal story.
00:07:02:05 - 00:07:20:18
Speaker 2
And. Well, then you just told me a historical story, as it were, right? You've told me your history, and you've seemed pretty interested and passionate and engaged while you were telling that story. That's what I do, and that's what I try and do. And, dispelling this myth, of course, that we've all heard many times over that Canadian history is boring.
00:07:20:18 - 00:07:54:00
Speaker 2
And, I have never found that. And I think that it is been said because maybe it's been taught that way. Or maybe, we have, as young people especially digested those dates and those facts and those chronologies in just a not a very exciting way. But I'll tell you, sitting down, speaking to a veteran and getting them to talk about their experiences when they were a 19 year old overseas and how that seminal moment, in their lives set them, for the next 70 or 80 years of their life.
00:07:54:02 - 00:08:03:19
Speaker 2
That's not boring. That's incredible. It's a riveting, as you guys would both know. And it's something that has stayed with me for, well, now over 20 years since I started interviewing those veterans way back then.
00:08:03:21 - 00:08:31:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. And, you know, and I love that because and I love that question you ask is like, well, tell me your history. Like, you know, where were you from? And and whenever we start looking at that, that's, that's kind of what I loved about genealogy. Yeah. Especially, you know, in Canada that we have those World War One records, and, you know, I'm fortunate enough to have both my great grandfathers in there and to open up those records and then just being curious on, you know, where did he sign up?
00:08:31:18 - 00:08:42:14
Speaker 1
Where did where did he get on those boat, where did what was his unit, where? And then seeing all these movements, all of a sudden I feel connected to this point of time and place into.
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Speaker 2
This real.
00:08:42:23 - 00:08:44:03
Speaker 1
Person and. Yeah, and.
00:08:44:03 - 00:09:06:17
Speaker 2
This real person, this guy up here. Right. My grandfather, was born in 1824, served in the RCAF 4344. So he's the same age, was the same age then as my daughter is now. So I'm looking at him going, God, he was this young kid. What was he doing? His father. So my great grandfather came to Canada when my grandfather was two years old.
00:09:06:19 - 00:09:38:11
Speaker 2
They founded in my community up the street from my house now, a synagogue that we went to as kids. So he lived in Poland, came over in, is probably mid 20s with a young, young child, founded part of a very important piece of this community, which I ended up becoming very involved in. And, and now I'm thinking, and he's long past, I'm thinking I have to get back to where he's from because the town that he's from, that's the name of the synagogue.
00:09:38:12 - 00:10:03:02
Speaker 2
Right. So it's named after the town, rather, in Poland. So how do I get back there? Literally, if I go very soon, about 100 years later. I born in 1824. Right. So if I get there next year, in 18 and 2026, I would be going there exactly 100 years since the day that he left, on the year that you left.
00:10:03:04 - 00:10:21:18
Speaker 2
That's real. Right? That's a real person, a real story, a real place, as you said. And he served for only a couple of years, but he talked about his experience a little bit, downplayed it as many of the veterans do, tended bar and gander didn't do much. Okay, okay. Prodded him a little bit, but didn't get much.
00:10:21:20 - 00:10:42:13
Speaker 2
But it's exciting for me as well, as you say, Ryan, to try and piece together that information, trying to piece together that story and part of his story. And as a result, my story is back there, and I'd love to be able to get back there for the first time, get there for the first time and, learn a little bit about, his hometown and how my family was, was part of that place before they moved and settled here.
00:10:42:14 - 00:10:42:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:10:42:22 - 00:11:05:21
Speaker 1
You can you can hear again. You lighting up and that that passion coming through and sharing that and kind of hearing that story and thinking of what you're doing. Now, I'm kind of curious to hear a little bit about your, your role at the Foundation and how you are continuing to spark that passion. And what are some of the activities you're doing?
00:11:05:23 - 00:11:27:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Thank you. And, we started this, foundation is still pretty young. We're in year five. Developed it during Covid in my basement in kind of just before the holidays, 2020. So these came out of conversations with the former commander of the Air Force, Mike hood, honorary colonels, including Tom Jenkins, and John Wright.
00:11:27:10 - 00:11:51:01
Speaker 2
And we just started kicking around the idea, even before that, this could be something that without reporting to a commander or a minister being our own distinct arms length, let's kind of do cool things that we want to do. Foundation. We could really have a positive impact on the upcoming centennial, which was 2024. So it was still three years away.
00:11:51:03 - 00:12:14:23
Speaker 2
But also be able to work with organizations, with people, with veterans, with serving members, with students, really run the gamut and try and create a truly although this is often said with organizations, but I think it is true with ours a past, present and future not for profit organization in Canada. So what's the through line between our or from Billy Bishop to the Avro to Jeremy Hanson?
00:12:15:01 - 00:12:32:22
Speaker 2
Right. That's what we want to do, right? We want to tell the stories of Bishop and Barker. We want to tell the stories of the Avro. We want to tell the stories of Elsie McGill. But we also want to engage young people who want to be the next fill in the blank. An aerospace engineer, a pilot, you know, our CF officer, an astronaut.
00:12:33:00 - 00:12:56:11
Speaker 2
Right. And so we have incredible freedom, creative freedom to do that. And by we have, I mean we've created, purposely, an opportunity to do all kinds of those things on different platforms and reach out to different audiences. So I guess the short answer would be that the A centennial needed to be a milestone, but not a destination.
00:12:56:13 - 00:13:16:05
Speaker 2
So we didn't want to say, hey, we're going to be around for 4 or 5 years. And then we celebrate commemoration as we start talking about off the top, and then fold up shop and think of something else to do. If anything, we use the Centennial as a jumping off point, as, a way of leveraging interest in those first four years to see where we're going to go for the next 20 years.
00:13:16:07 - 00:13:34:02
Speaker 2
And we're in year one of the next 20 years, so very much, focused on future, while also using the origin stories of the, of the RCAF past as a way to inspire us to create great things and lasting things, in the lives of people of all ages in the country.
00:13:34:02 - 00:13:42:11
Speaker 3
Your footprint that spans paper to digital. Tell us a little bit about the digital piece and what are what are the the kids saying about the digital piece?
00:13:42:11 - 00:13:43:08
Speaker 2
Because yeah, we.
00:13:43:08 - 00:13:45:12
Speaker 3
We know they live they live.
00:13:45:14 - 00:14:07:21
Speaker 2
Yeah they do. And books are great. Books look good. For those that have a coffee table, coffee table books are good. But yeah, we need it to be. And we want it to be in the digital space, and, and I think we could do it in a traditional way. But we wanted to try and and, I don't know, I attack these stories in different ways.
00:14:07:21 - 00:14:34:18
Speaker 2
So one way we're doing it is we created a, podcast series called pathway to the stars, or named after the book. And, but not just, having historians on or doing sort of more, more traditional conversations, although that's, something we have done and something that is, is important. But we found that people weren't doing is taking a little bit of that, immersive old timey radio experience storytelling.
00:14:34:18 - 00:15:02:21
Speaker 2
So some of these stories, of course, are from, days gone by. So maybe treating the stories as if they were being told during that time. So sound effects and actors and background, sort of, music that sort of sets the tone. But taking stories from pathways from the book and treating them with about a 20 minute, again, sort of immersive radio experience, on that platform.
00:15:02:21 - 00:15:23:11
Speaker 2
And, so we work with professional actors and professional musicians and we, you know, purchase those sound effects of parachutes opening up and screeching tires on the runway, and dials going on in the cockpit and all of that. And so we've told three, six, eight, we're about to do our ninth story. So almost finished our third season.
00:15:23:13 - 00:15:50:10
Speaker 2
And talking about really, you know, as much as we can some of those unknown stories, some of those underrepresented, stories or people from the RCAF past. So, women that have made an incredible impact, those that would be considered forgotten voices, those from the LGBT community, those from people of color and those and those different communities, indigenous stories as well, to try and highlight some of the things that you may not know about the Air Force.
00:15:50:12 - 00:16:14:23
Speaker 2
I always go into projects and go into history, fill in the blank whenever that ends up being as we're just going to assume you don't know a lot about this. So very few people, as we know, are experts in this field or in any field. So why don't we take a couple of steps back and introduce this person, introduce this event, introduce this machine, to you, and then we'll continue to telling the story.
00:16:15:04 - 00:16:37:22
Speaker 2
So by the time you're done that 20 minutes, you're entertaining, you're educated, you're engaged, and hopefully you click to the next episode. And so we found some great pick up in these, these podcasts. And it is allowed us to continue telling those stories in traditional videos, 60 to 90 second videos, animated videos, anywhere from 20s to one minute.
00:16:38:00 - 00:17:01:22
Speaker 2
And then through the book to Aviation Nation, the kids book that we've just launched, an opportunity to reach out to a younger demographic that, as you say. And, how do we tell the stories that are as interesting to an adult as they could also be to their grade four kid or grandkid? There's the same story of Willow Walker or the same story of Elsie McGill or Billy Bishop or William Barker.
00:17:01:23 - 00:17:12:18
Speaker 2
But let's strip it away a little bit, depending on who the audience is and depending on what the platform is. And so again, back to creative freedom. We've tried it. It's had some success. So we're going to keep building it as we move on.
00:17:12:18 - 00:17:17:08
Speaker 3
What do you think your grandfather would think about the work you're doing today?
00:17:17:10 - 00:17:39:00
Speaker 2
I had a great relationship with him. I miss him terribly. He lived around the corner from me, and, He'd love it. He would have a lot of time for it. He, My grandfather served, and then he came back, and he was, a taxi cab driver for 50 years in Toronto. So he was a, he was very good at listening.
00:17:39:02 - 00:18:02:03
Speaker 2
He was very good listening to people usually listening to the radio, to the ball game, to people's stories. SAT in a big rocking chair, reclining chair at home. So he was a born listener. I had a great, manner about him. Very calm, very patient. He would love it. He would absolutely love it. And, and I think he would give me some ideas, too.
00:18:02:05 - 00:18:17:16
Speaker 2
And I kind of. I'm sad that he's not here to be able to hear this and read this because he'd say, you know, I met a guy. He did this, you know, you should tell his story. You know, something like he would say that, he would be a good, very, free, very good volunteer content creator for us.
00:18:17:16 - 00:18:31:03
Speaker 2
And that he was alive. He love it. He would love it. So I do often think about him. And his picture sits there whenever I'm on. You know, video calls or talking about what I do. And he definitely inspires me to this day.
00:18:31:08 - 00:18:35:02
Speaker 3
You're talking a little bit about going back to those random.
00:18:35:04 - 00:18:37:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. Random radio. Yeah.
00:18:38:01 - 00:18:41:02
Speaker 3
Have you been back to, to gander for any chance to see.
00:18:41:02 - 00:19:13:22
Speaker 2
I haven't, I tried to get there through the as we're playing the book launches. So yeah. For pathways, I'm going to get there for Aviation Nation. And the plan is to try and get there, in in this, this fall, and try and trace steps, and see where he was. But just even if I can't put all the pieces together, just you you just being surrounded by the same landmarks and ground and, and sort of, environment and atmosphere that he was.
00:19:13:23 - 00:19:19:11
Speaker 2
It will be a lot of fun. So. Yeah, I got to get there. One of the only places I haven't been in Canada. So. Yeah, I don't have to get there.
00:19:19:13 - 00:19:25:09
Speaker 3
I can just imagine you finding a way to sidle up to that bar. Yes. If you're still there.
00:19:25:11 - 00:19:27:06
Speaker 2
Absolutely. I'm saying that you'll.
00:19:27:06 - 00:19:27:21
Speaker 3
Find a way.
00:19:28:01 - 00:19:30:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:19:30:09 - 00:19:57:18
Speaker 1
I love the idea. You know, I can see your grandfather definitely driving his cab around, listening to the podcast and being fully immersed into that. Yeah. And, yeah, it's a beautiful image. I, just kind of curious, like, as you think of combining this medium of technology. The work you do at the end of the day, if you have like, a young adult, young teenager, what are you hoping they connect to?
00:19:57:18 - 00:19:59:22
Speaker 1
What do you hope that they leave with?
00:20:00:00 - 00:20:20:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that, you know, much of my experience is around history have been the connection that I've made personally. And and then I hope, you know, my kids or other, you know, teenagers or young adults, make that connection to, the fact that these are real people, you know, we call them heroes, which many veterans that I've interviewed and talked to do not like that.
00:20:20:20 - 00:20:55:17
Speaker 2
That word, they don't like being called hero. I just did what I was told, and I did was as expected, and anybody else would do it. That was the refrain that would come. A lot of you guys have heard that a lot as well. These are regular people, that did extraordinary things, and especially talking about, young women who were not welcomed, in the same way, who had different challenges, and, and still not only persevere, but excelled in whatever area, that they chose to, chose to do.
00:20:55:17 - 00:21:17:11
Speaker 2
And so, I think we need to celebrate achievement. We need to I mean, to celebrate, the incredible, legacy, and inspiring legacy that they've left. But they're just regular folks, and that's what they would say as well. And I think by approaching it that way, you look at yourself going, I think I can do that as well.
00:21:17:12 - 00:21:35:06
Speaker 2
You know, I feel like I have that skill set or I have that passion or interest. And I've never seen somebody until I've heard their story, her story, his story, their story. I think I'm going to give that a shot. I'm going to try that. And that's how they were interested and inspired to do what they wanted to do.
00:21:35:10 - 00:21:54:08
Speaker 2
We run a scholarship program, and so many of the young people that come to us, write us an essay or record a video talking about who's inspired them, what's inspired them. And often it's reading a story of a person or listening to a story about a person, who's done extraordinary things. And that's inspired them to try and, you know, chase their goals and their dreams.
00:21:54:08 - 00:22:23:07
Speaker 2
And so it can sometimes be sparked or start from, a short podcast or, you know, a little excerpt on, little excerpt on, on Wikipedia, or just seeing, you know, a five minute news story on the CBC. And so the more that we tell these stories, the more that we recount the incredible things that Canadians have achieved over the last at least 100 years in aviation, the more we're going to inspire the next generation to want to do that, in the same way that they were inspired to do it by the people before them.
00:22:23:09 - 00:22:48:14
Speaker 1
You know, as you as you're talking about that, like the importance of some of these youth programs, is is phenomenal. We had a guest on recently and I'm just it's escaping my mind to just that moment. But, you know, she started and did a was a Vimeo guide and then went on to it for air and casualty identification and like, you know, and, and just like you sitting in that classroom and I love that there's a quote I love.
00:22:48:14 - 00:23:08:21
Speaker 1
It's just like to hold an inner passion, an inner flame that burns so brightly, it ignites a passion of all those around. And, you know, I think when you're highlighting those stories of those individuals and you're involving youth into that, it's a humbling and eye opening experience. And yeah.
00:23:08:23 - 00:23:30:01
Speaker 2
It's our responsibility, to be honest. I mean, every Remembrance Day we host, I hosted and mic Remembrance Day in Toronto at, where William Barker, the First World War A is interred and, and commemorated there. I say the same thing at the end of that ceremony that we made, a promise at the end of the First World War to never forget.
00:23:30:03 - 00:23:35:03
Speaker 2
And we owe it to that generation and then every subsequent generation to keep these stories alive.
00:23:35:03 - 00:24:00:01
Speaker 2
When I was at the Institute in 2007, our organization, created initiatives to encourage the government of Canada at the time to offer a state funeral to the last veteran of the First World War. At the time, there were three. And of course, there ended up being one. And just before he passed. A colleague of mine drove, we flew it to Vancouver for an event, and then we drove to his house in the US.
00:24:00:01 - 00:24:30:08
Speaker 2
So we knew he was born or in Kingston. He, became a US citizen. Served in the First World War for Canada, did not see combat because he was just about to, to get out into the mud when the war ended, in 1918, moved to Spokane, Washington. And ended up serving in the US Army and during peace time and lived there for the rest of his days, which was, I guess, another like 95 years or 91 years or whatever.
00:24:30:08 - 00:24:56:08
Speaker 2
Anyway, we spent the day with him in Spokane, Washington, and we went out for lunch with them. He was 106 or something at the time, 107, I think. He was born in 1900 and we saw him in 2007. He was 107. And we spoke to him about his life, and he remembered every moment of training, of, being raised in, in Kingston, moving to the US, serving in the US Army.
00:24:56:13 - 00:25:16:22
Speaker 2
He had an amazing, not only recollection of his life in details, but a love for Canada, even though he hadn't been back and had, not, been, you know, involved in, in Canada for many years. Anyway, we talked to him for quite a while about his life and about how we lived so long and what his habits were and what you remember, his and his kids and whatever.
00:25:17:00 - 00:26:03:04
Speaker 2
And he died, I think, about six months later. And he, his family was offered by the Minister of Veterans Affairs. Because of our campaign, we got 100,000 signatures in support of this. And they turned it down, which was going to happen potentially. But the media attention around the saying goodbye to this generation, you're literally the last guy, was really the point was really the point of this campaign, to highlight this incredible generation that we've completely lost and him being kind of the standard bearer or the spokesperson in his last number of months, about service in about Canada, even though he had said goodbye to kind of many years ago.
00:26:03:06 - 00:26:31:22
Speaker 2
And we were extremely fortunate to be able to sit there and have chocolate cake and went out for French fries. I'm like, this is what you do. I ordered seven chocolate cake and French fries. I got the secret now, and he taught us a lot about his, his life and his life, but service and volunteer and what it meant to him and how it those what he called this defining moment of his life, and how he was extremely lucky to not die as an 18 year old and be able to live another 90 years.
00:26:32:00 - 00:26:58:14
Speaker 2
And we drove away thinking like he's not going to be around much longer. I mean, he's on seven. And, and it was one of the things that that has still stuck with me about, again, the importance of commemoration, the importance of, fulfilling that promise of keeping these stories alive and keeping these, these young men at that point, and young men and women, in your thoughts as you continue to tell these stories and find a new way of getting young people excited about what we do so often think of him.
00:26:58:14 - 00:27:01:20
Speaker 2
John Babcock is his name and is, yeah, a great, a great guy.
00:27:01:20 - 00:27:19:03
Speaker 2
there are tons of young people that don't even realize how interesting and inspiring these stories will eventually be to them. And so giving them a little taste, is, I think, our responsibility. It's part of what we promise to keep the memory alive of those that served.
00:27:19:03 - 00:28:00:10
Speaker 2
And we need to continue to do that. I was at an event today, earlier today, a book festival, 4000 grades, 4 to 6 students. Now, I'm not saying all of them were just in aviation or history. In history, they were their day of school. But it was around reading. It was around storytelling. It was around, art, music, drawing, how the the arts, and storytelling, can inspire most of them are about, say, ten, ten, 11 years old, 4000 of them being film.
00:28:00:12 - 00:28:31:20
Speaker 2
So I got to talk to some of them and be able to ask them, like the especially the ones that came up to the booth, took the book, looked around the book and and different illustrations. Some of them bought the book that, yes, our parents gave them some money to go to this thing. And the point is that it was great to walk around and feel the energy of thousands of kids coming out and wanting to learn things that are in books and on a board, and from a mouth of a person, that there was very little digital there.
00:28:31:21 - 00:28:58:02
Speaker 2
There are screens, there is music in the background. There were concerts are going to happen after I left, but it wasn't walking around with an iPad, it wasn't walking like that. So it was a good balance between where they're learning things through their phone and through their iPad into, digital on their screens with the actual, hey, I'm with a bunch of people beside me, and we're walking and collecting things and reading them to each other as they're sitting in the field with their legs crossed, like it was almost like throwback in a way.
00:28:58:02 - 00:29:17:07
Speaker 2
And these kids were pumped, right? They were so excited, to be there. You get free stuff, you meet people. And especially if kids are interested in and animators are in or in artists or specific books or stories, those people were there today. So you meet your favorite artist, you meet your favorite author. I have that book. Can you sign it?
00:29:17:07 - 00:29:43:22
Speaker 2
Like it was amazing, right? So people are going to walk away from that with this incredible feeling of, I can maybe do this one day in my life and it's because of the person that I met, here at this event. So, so little bits and pieces that keep me going and keep me inspired. And, and it is all about making sure that what we leave, for the younger generation, and it's, it's our part of our responsibility.
00:29:43:22 - 00:29:46:01
Speaker 2
And again, what we what we promised 100 years ago.
00:29:46:14 - 00:30:10:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, even as you're talking, I it's just getting me thinking of this constant. It's like this balance, really, when we think of commemoration and engagement is the digital form. Like, obviously Matt and I have a digital bias. We created an app that that but it's it's not designed to take from the experience. It's actually designed to get people into the physical experience.
00:30:10:11 - 00:30:34:16
Speaker 1
We want people to get into these cemeteries. We want people to engage with headstones and and bring that story. But it's not to take away. It's to add and it's and, you know, and I'm hearing as you're talking that's just this really cool balance between the digital, the physical and the storytelling that, your foundation is, is, is creating.
00:30:34:16 - 00:30:44:18
Speaker 1
And, you know, as you look out into that future because you're very future focused, which I like is, you know, what is the future looking like then?
00:30:44:20 - 00:31:13:00
Speaker 2
And I think in terms of the future of how our young people are going to learn about this, a book is a great jumping off point. Again, all these people at this event today, picking up the book and looking at it, but we're learning a lot about what's happening, about what's happening with, how young people interact with video content, attention spans, how to get them hooked right away.
00:31:13:02 - 00:31:43:05
Speaker 2
I won't say it's, depressing, but it is still surprising to me that you have four, four, four seconds, four seconds. The first for the next for the last four. Say it's a 12 second or a time, attention span time. And so getting them in the first four seconds will allow them to stay with it, because, you know, you don't want to spend five seconds on something unless the first four seconds get you.
00:31:43:07 - 00:32:06:23
Speaker 2
But we've now morphed our storytelling on video and digital to put the sort of like, hit the punch line, as it were, up front. So this is what this incredible person did. This is what this incredible machine does. This is this amazing achievement that that Canadians have done in our history and in aviation, in the Air Force. We're not going to wait to the end to tell you.
00:32:07:01 - 00:32:27:06
Speaker 2
We're gonna tell you upfront in the first four minutes in the title slide with even the title. So it's even in the first second or half a second that you're watching. Then if you stay with this after the 12 seconds, then we'll tell you kind of the rest of the story. Right? So it's it's what we're learning is it's almost opposite.
00:32:27:08 - 00:32:54:21
Speaker 2
So you're not building towards the end. You're telling the end or the payoff at the beginning. And we're finding visually. So even just, what photo we're using on our YouTube videos, right. What words we're using, what font, what color we're using makes a huge difference to how long people are staying with us. And viewing. Of course, they're going to stay with a Billy Bishop or they're going to stay with a Lancaster, things that they have heard of before.
00:32:54:23 - 00:33:20:03
Speaker 2
But again, as I said earlier, most things they haven't heard of and most things they don't know a lot about. So how do you hook them in? And so we're looking at a future, I think, with our digital from our foundation or digital content staying within that 12 to 20s not not only we'll, we'll use that as one way, we're telling stories because I don't think there's one way of telling stories.
00:33:20:03 - 00:33:43:16
Speaker 2
There's still an audience for books are still an audience for long form. How many people want to see, you know, Top Gun because they're they're, you know, excited and inspired by by planes and fighter pilots. And, you know, you can't obviously tell a story like that in 20s, but there are moment in aviation history and an Air Force history that you can distill down to 20s and then give at the end.
00:33:43:16 - 00:34:02:11
Speaker 2
For more of the story, click here for more of the story, visit here. For more of the story, find this, find this book, find this link or whatever. But but trying to, again, move up that story to the front, has proven to be successful for us, and we've just recognized that in the last few months.
00:34:02:11 - 00:34:19:15
Speaker 2
And again, being an organization that can try things and have creative freedom, we can kind of see, you know, let's do ten, 22nd videos and see how they do, and let's do 1060 second videos and see how they do. And let's change the photos back and forth and change the font back and forth. So we're kind of trial and error ING it a little bit.
00:34:19:17 - 00:34:23:22
Speaker 2
But it's kind of fun to see, the response and the reaction from people as they're doing it.
00:34:24:00 - 00:34:45:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. We need, we need to go to school off of that. Matt. And that's actually and that's one of the reasons I like this, this podcast is because, you know, a lot of people in the commemorative space are watching it. And this is a great way to learn about how to grab some of that commemorative material to grab the attention and engage people, because, you know, it's just as you're talking.
00:34:45:08 - 00:34:55:08
Speaker 1
I'm just like, yeah, that that's for your second for, for and for makes makes a lot of sense. You know, where our kids are looking at reels, they're looking at short reels.
00:34:55:09 - 00:35:19:08
Speaker 2
Very short, very short, even four seconds you're scrolling through and not to sound like three old guys, but you're you're scrolling through and I see what my kids are on. I hear what they're on. Four seconds is a long time, but but you can tell, you can start to tell a story in four seconds. And that's the brain of a younger person.
00:35:19:09 - 00:35:40:00
Speaker 2
And then you can argue about whether they're even processing it. But if they're starting to be conditioned to process things in short bursts, let's work with that. Let's tell the story of Sid Burrows, who was, an Air Force pilot who, as he was flying his plane, a bird hit the windshield and went right into his eye.
00:35:40:02 - 00:35:51:15
Speaker 2
His eye was bleeding. He lost, eventually lost his eye, lost a sight right away, and then lost his eye and landed the plane. His nickname became Cyclops.
00:35:51:17 - 00:35:52:04
Speaker 1
Of course.
00:35:52:04 - 00:36:10:14
Speaker 2
That I probably told that story in less than 20s. Right. Well, he has an incredible story, but whenever I see him, he's in his 90s now. She always tells that story. And he's been telling it for like 65 years. Right? Right. So we did an animated short on that story. He tells strange 80s.
00:36:10:16 - 00:36:11:03
Speaker 1
Well, I love.
00:36:11:03 - 00:36:14:20
Speaker 2
It and it's fascinating. And he loves it, right? Yeah, it's.
00:36:14:21 - 00:36:39:13
Speaker 1
Captured me and that story. Now I'm going to remember Cyclops and then. Right. You know, and but that's the the thing is, you know, even if we get into the neuroscience, which is actually really interesting, but how our brain filters information is going to filter it based off of emotion first. And so if you can evoke an emotion in the first four seconds, if you can, that like that, that that image of flying a plane and then smashing that, that's scary.
00:36:39:13 - 00:37:04:04
Speaker 1
And then like the bravery and the, the control to land it like there's all this emotion that's captured in that moment and that's really, you know, the heart, I think, of storytelling and the heart of engagement is connection and emotional connection. And I love it to hear as you, as you're doing your work, as you're kind of learning to master this art of invoking emotion in people.
00:37:04:04 - 00:37:07:04
Speaker 1
And then the connection and the information comes after.
00:37:07:06 - 00:37:31:07
Speaker 2
I think about the emotion that's tied to flight, to exploration, to discovery, to space, to jumping out of a plane and pulling the cord on your parachute, on search and rescue to save somebody that's drowning, in the ocean and pull them up in a helicopter to safety. I mean, man, this stuff is built in to the story of aviation.
00:37:31:09 - 00:38:02:17
Speaker 2
We don't have to look very far. You know, we had a lot of stories on the cutting room floor of these books. All right, because this theme or subject, let's call it, lends itself to stories that like kick out. Right, like, yeah, these people are incredible. These people save lives. They make a huge difference. They are brave. They take chances, and they're all about exploring new things, doing things that many others have never even thought of.
00:38:02:19 - 00:38:29:00
Speaker 2
Like, right. It's built in to that. Meet a fighter pilot. I mean, it's somebody who jumps out of planes. You know, you sit there and you don't say a lot, right? You just let them talk and you listen. And so I'd say the content is pretty easy. It's the, how we curate it and how we distribute it and how we identify the right audience is just a challenging and fun part.
00:38:29:03 - 00:38:50:21
Speaker 3
We attended one of your your events in real life last year, and I remember meeting, you know, a fighter like a fighter pilot. Yeah. That's, that's that's stuck with me. You're right. I didn't say very know. I, I don't know, he was he was a young kid, just like, wow. Like, this foundation is doing something exceptional. Yeah, yeah.
00:38:50:23 - 00:38:52:01
Speaker 3
And it's incredible.
00:38:52:03 - 00:39:31:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, I, I, you're right, meeting those people in the flesh. And and we've had a great opportunity to have a number of them at two events in the flight suits and, and talking about their experience. And as we move forward again, we're talking about the past 100 and looking at the next hundred, and the next hundred is about, likely going to be about space and going to be about bringing technology and the industry, and it's going to be about the young, girl who met, the first, you know, captain of Air Canada or about the first, about to be the first commander or women commander of the Air Force
00:39:31:17 - 00:39:54:14
Speaker 2
and how that will inspire them, to think about doing that in their career. I mean, we have to be honest, the Air Force needs people, right? Skilled trades are in high, high demand in, in the aviation industry. And we have all of these young people that are going to be very well-educated. They're brilliant, they're inspirational, and they are ready to go.
00:39:54:16 - 00:40:13:18
Speaker 2
So how do we, as a foundation and our serve our next 5 or 10 years, make that, make that bridge or create that bridge or make that link or be a facilitator, to take a 21 year old who's just graduated an aerospace engineering, and his dream is to become, you know, again, you know, X, Y and Z ABC.
00:40:13:19 - 00:40:30:01
Speaker 2
How do we get them there? How do we get them to work on simulators? Simulators? How do we get them to, maybe shadow Jeremy Hanson, that space agency to think about that? They could actually be an astronaut in 20 years. I mean, we're going to Mars at some point in our lifetime. So, that 21 year old.
00:40:30:01 - 00:40:38:10
Speaker 2
There are a number of them that we know that have applied for our scholarship. Who can't wait to potentially do that in their career? I mean, that's amazing,
00:40:38:10 - 00:40:49:22
Speaker 2
right? And so any way that we can help in a small way, that is, again, a huge part of our mandate. And, and the reason one of the reasons that we that we exist as an organization.
00:40:50:01 - 00:41:07:05
Speaker 1
Jeremy, we could chat with you all day about this stuff. We're going to have to fill another podcast with, with all the stuff you're doing. But, you know, in that context is, you know what? What would you like to share with the audience about what's next or any events that you have coming?
00:41:07:07 - 00:41:29:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. So we we just launched the book, first launch of Aviation Nation. So Aviation Nation is geared towards grade four to grade eight and has 65 stories, people, events and machines in the history of the Air Force, in aviation in Canada. So it is a truly unique, book. It has, one of a kind illustrations for every one of the 65 stories.
00:41:29:18 - 00:41:53:12
Speaker 2
We are working it through the system in terms of getting it into every library and every school board in Canada, every public library in Canada as well. And then we've been working with Wilfrid Laurier University in Waterloo, Ontario, through their Faculty of Education to create free learning tools that are cricket. And they're connected to, I think, 7 or 8 different curricula in grade four to grade eight.
00:41:53:14 - 00:42:12:02
Speaker 2
So science and math and for Z and music, and then so you're looking at the learning tools, you're pairing it with a couple of stories in the book, and then you'll be able to help, create different presentations and projects in the classroom. So, so we're going to do a set of launch events through the spring summer.
00:42:12:04 - 00:42:39:01
Speaker 2
We're excited to be able to do an event with, Lieutenant governor of Ontario, towards the end of June with, with young people will be out in Halifax at a number of events as well. And then in the shorter term, we're very excited to announce our new scholarship recipients or 2025 scholarship recipients. So these are young people in post-secondary institutions studying in a Stem program with plans to go into aviation or aerospace.
00:42:39:02 - 00:43:03:02
Speaker 2
So we're expecting about 300 submissions. Fingers crossed we're able to give out between 80 and 100, and that will get us to about 500 total in the five years that we've had the scholarship. So we're, excited to announce this year, but also look back and think, well, we have 500 students who are ready to move through in their careers and, inspire the six year old who thinks that they like planes.
00:43:03:04 - 00:43:13:21
Speaker 2
We have a 22 year old who's won a scholarship, and think about what they're going to do in their career. So we're we're always excited to showcase those young people and help tell their stories and give them a little air time as well.
00:43:14:01 - 00:43:18:15
Speaker 1
And so if people wanted to find out more about the foundation and such, where should they go?
00:43:18:15 - 00:43:39:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, easy. Two ways. One, just go to the website RCAF Foundation, okay. And then check us out on social or on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn. At RCAF Underscore Foundation. And you'll find all of our stuff there. And we want to hear from people as well. You know, it's great that people follow and view and post and share and all of that.
00:43:39:14 - 00:43:54:16
Speaker 2
But, you know, do you have your own Air Force aviation story? Do you have an aunt or a mom or dad or an uncle that served? And, what are your thoughts about, when you look up in the sky and you see a plane fly over, what are you thinking? When that happens? Share that with us.
00:43:54:16 - 00:44:08:17
Speaker 2
We'd love to hear the perspectives of Canadians of all ages and and who knows, we'd be able to to curate those stories and have those as a future program. You know, with the foundation. So happy to engage whenever we can. So please visit and get Ahold of us when you can.
00:44:08:18 - 00:44:26:03
Speaker 1
Jeremy, thank you so much for your time today and just sharing your experiences, what's brought you into the commemorative space, and the amazing work that the RCAF Foundation is doing for listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in. Please tune in again with our next episode and we look forward to having you join us.
00:44:26:03 - 00:44:27:08
Speaker 2
Thanks, guys.
00:44:32:04 - 00:44:51:14
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for tuning in. Story. Behind the Stone is available on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on the Rise Across America Radio Network on iHeartRadio. Audacity and tune in to search for wreath. We air every Thursday at 10 a.m. eastern on the Red Cross Radio Network. Thank you for tuning in.