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What if the biggest thing holding your business back isn't your marketing, your pricing, or your competition—but the way you're thinking about growth?
Building a successful fitness or wellness business isn't just about delivering incredible results. It's about learning to think like an owner, making decisions with intention, and recognizing that sustainable growth requires a different mindset than simply being great at your craft.
In this conversation, Ariel Belgrave sits down with Julian Barnes, Co-Founder and CEO of the BFS Network, to unpack what separates businesses that survive from those that truly scale. From pricing and partnerships to leadership, networking, delegation, and long-term planning, Julian shares the realities founders often don't hear until they've learned them the hard way.
Whether you're running your first studio or leading a growing team, this conversation offers an honest look at what it really takes to build a profitable business that lasts.
WHAT YOU'LL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE
What if the biggest thing holding your business back isn't your marketing, your pricing, or your competition—but the way you're thinking about growth?
Building a successful fitness or wellness business isn't just about delivering incredible results. It's about learning to think like an owner, making decisions with intention, and recognizing that sustainable growth requires a different mindset than simply being great at your craft.
In this conversation, Ariel Belgrave sits down with Julian Barnes, Co-Founder and CEO of the BFS Network, to unpack what separates businesses that survive from those that truly scale. From pricing and partnerships to leadership, networking, delegation, and long-term planning, Julian shares the realities founders often don't hear until they've learned them the hard way.
Whether you're running your first studio or leading a growing team, this conversation offers an honest look at what it really takes to build a profitable business that lasts.
WHAT YOU'LL HEAR IN THIS EPISODE
- Why profitable studios sell outcomes instead of workouts
- The mindset shift from coach to CEO
- How relationships create opportunities money can't buy
- Why visibility has real economic value
- What delegation actually requires from a founder
- How to think about systems, technology, and AI without getting overwhelmed
- Why long-term planning beats chasing quick wins
📌 CHAPTERS
00:00 Intro
01:10 The Current State of the Fitness Industry
08:45 Selling Outcomes Instead of Workouts
18:30 Partnerships That Actually Grow Your Business
22:50 Making the CEO Mindset Shift
32:10 Pricing, Profitability & Long-Term Thinking
42:45 Systems, Software & AI for Operators
57:10 The Sacrifices Behind Sustainable Growth
01:04:30 Why Relationships Create Opportunity
ABOUT SWEAT & EQUITY:
The Sweat & Equity Show is for fitness and wellness professionals who want to build sustainable businesses with more ownership, leverage, and longevity. Hosted by Ariel Belgrave, the show explores what it really takes to grow your income and impact in this industry, with honest conversations on business models, revenue, partnerships, burnout, mindset, and the shift from practitioner to operator.
The Sweat & Equity Show is for fitness and wellness professionals who want to build sustainable businesses with more ownership, leverage, and longevity. Hosted by Ariel Belgrave, the show explores what it really takes to grow your income and impact in this industry, with honest conversations on business models, revenue, partnerships, burnout, mindset, and the shift from practitioner to operator.
🔗 CONNECT WITH ARIEL:
Instagram: @sweatandequityshow
Gym Hooky Instagram: @gymhooky
LinkedIn: @ArielBelgrave
Website: https://www.sweatandequityshow.com/
🔗 CONNECT WITH Julian Barnes:
Instagram: @julianbarnesnyc
LinkedIn: @JulianBarnes
Website: https://bfsnetwork.com/
Instagram: @sweatandequityshow
Gym Hooky Instagram: @gymhooky
LinkedIn: @ArielBelgrave
Website: https://www.sweatandequityshow.com/
🔗 CONNECT WITH Julian Barnes:
Instagram: @julianbarnesnyc
LinkedIn: @JulianBarnes
Website: https://bfsnetwork.com/
JOIN THE NEWSLETTER:
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Subscribe to The Sweat & Equity Insider for deeper business breakdowns, behind-the-scenes examples, and frameworks for fitness and wellness professionals building with more strategy and less guesswork. https://www.sweatandequityshow.com/subscribe
SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW:
If this episode resonated, subscribe to The Sweat & Equity Show, leave a review, and share it with 3 fitness or wellness professionals in your network. Better businesses start with better conversations.
If this episode resonated, subscribe to The Sweat & Equity Show, leave a review, and share it with 3 fitness or wellness professionals in your network. Better businesses start with better conversations.
Creators and Guests
What is Sweat & Equity Show?
The Sweat and Equity Show brings insights, clarity, and tactics for the modern fitness and wellness business owner to grow and thrive on their terms. Global speaker, advisor and wellness entrepreneur Ariel Belgrave, peels back the curtain on about what it takes to build, grow, and sustain an enduring business in the industry. No gatekeeping allowed!
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Two, many studios are still selling the workout instead of the outcome. Profitable studios do
three things consistently. Julian Barnes is the co-founder and CEO of the BFS network, where he
works with growth stage studio operators, doing anywhere from 2 million to 50 million plus an
annual revenue, helping them scale without becoming the bottleneck. There is an economic loss
that occurs when you're paying full price, when no one knows you, when someone knows you. Oh, let me
give you five, 10% off. Let me give you 20% off. Let's talk about the person who grabs the
business book. My people, our people, our people, our people, our people. He's helped founders and multi
location operators better understand what actually drives growth, profitability and long
term value. I would love your thoughts on how someone who may choose to specialize in something
and then outsource to other parts of the industry, where can they start with finding great
partnership collaboration opportunities across the other fields? One of the biggest mistakes that
I've seen people make over 20 years in business development is looking externally before they
look internally. Welcome to the Sweat and Equity Show, where we take you behind the
scenes of fitness and wellness entrepreneurs who are building, growing and scaling their businesses.
There's a big difference between a business that looks successful on the outside and one that is
actually profitable, scalable, and built to last. And in today's fitness and wellness industry,
understanding that difference matters more than ever. Especially as we see a shift in the industry.
Today's guest is someone who has spent years studying exactly that. Let's get into it.
Julian, welcome to the Sweat and Equity Show. Thanks for having me. Really excited to be here.
Yes, we're going to have a great conversation. I feel like we had our initial call, and as I was
thinking where this conversation can go in a good way, it could go many. So what I actually wanted to
start with kicking off is getting your perspective of the current state of the industry.
And what do you feel stable? What do you feel like you see a shift happening if you can kind of give
your thoughts on that? Because I know you also have a lot. You and your team are doing a lot on
the industry report side. The industry is absolutely growing. HFA, which is the Health and
Fitness Association, just released their report saying 80. I think 85% of Americans now have a gym
membership, 25% of the population has a gym membership, which is one important metric.
Utilization is another metric. People. How how frequently are people exercising and that is
increasing across the board. Then there are other companies out there, ranging from Strava and
Garmin, that release their metrics about people using their devices and the, the, the amounts that
people are exercising. And by every measure, people are exercising more. So that's all
great. Um, the biggest shift that's occurring in the marketplace right now is, uh, I
would say two things. And they're related. People are recognizing that fitness is actually part of
preventative health care, and that's a whole nother topic right there. But related to
that is people are starting to think about their health in terms of well-being and
longevity. And people are optimizing their health for what they call
lifespan and health span. Lifespan is how long do you live? Health span is the quality of your
life as you're living it. So increasingly, people are thinking more in terms of longevity,
well-being and health span. And that means the average consumer is demanding more
from their coach trainer, instructor, studio, gym. They're demanding more than just a workout.
They want guidance that's going to help them improve their health, span well-being and
longevity. Yeah. And when you see when you have those findings, what does this mean
for studios? Studios have not had the opportunity to
the studios need to do more. And that's a controversial opinion, because if you think about
when and when studios became popular, or starting with Barry's in 99 and SoulCycle in oh six, the
whole notion was the anti gym, the unbundling of all the different pieces of the gym, and just
having one small space where you could build a community, and there's still tremendous value in
that concept. And yet the consumer is different. So when I say studios need to do more, maybe I should
rephrase. Studios need to serve their members total wellbeing needs differently today
than they were doing even five years ago. We're not in the pre-COVID era. That was 25th,
2014. The 2019 was the golden era of boutique fitness studios. The the world is different. The
population is different. People know more. Um, and because they know more about what they should
be doing, they are expecting and demanding more from their coach trainer, instructor, studio, gym.
What should I be doing with my sleep, with my nutrition, with my mental health? I'm not just
coming here to lift weights and count sets and reps. I want more because I'm hearing all these, uh,
expert thought leaders, all the the podcasters and doctors who we talk about saying you should be
thinking about HIV. You should be thinking about nutrition. You should be thinking about, you know,
um, you know, women's health. Should we think about all these things? Well, if I'm the consumer, I'm
saying, okay, well, where do I go to get those answers? And increasingly, the coach trainer,
instructor studio gym has to be the place where people go to get answers to those questions that
they have. Yeah. And in lieu of that, what type of guidance are you giving to studios to.
You always start. Studios are like any other business. Get to listen to your customer, which
means you have to ask your members what do you want? Every every studio has its own
community, and every community doesn't want the same thing. So well-being and longevity for
somebody could mean recovery, adding in infrared or adding in a sauna or cold plunge or
or devices like normal tech. But for someone else, for another community in a studio.
Well-Being and longevity could mean, um, uh, you know, HRT, hormone
replacement theory, uh, trt GOP one for someone else, it could mean,
um, kind of getting into the beauty space. So IV drips and injectables. So the
first advice, the first recommendation I provide to a studio owner who's thinking about how to
incorporate wellbeing into their business model, is ask their members what they want at the end of
the day. Got to give the people what they want. Yeah. And the only way to figure that out is ask
them. Yeah. And is there a of the many things you just listed? Is there anything that you find?
Studios are hearing a lot more of. You know GLP ones. It's all topics. It's all. I mean. Yeah.
So let's back up. First thing I said was 25% of the population has a gym membership. A significant
portion of those people are listening to the same podcasts. We know who they are. Right. We're
listening to Huberman. We were listening to that guy named Peter, but I think he's no longer
in the top list. Uh, the women are listening to Doctor Stacy Sims. Doctor Gabrielle Lyons,
um, listening to Mark Hyman. They're listening to, uh, Bill Campbell, PhD. There are
notable, uh, innovators and influencers out there with, you know, with credibility behind them and a
lot of research coming out. And there's just so much information. The average person, myself
included, doesn't necessarily understand how some of this advice that we're hearing is supposed
to fit into my life. And so that's what I mean by we have a mutual friend, um, who
recently talked about the role of the coach trainer, uh, instructor is changing, right. Because
and a lot of that 25% is wearing some kind of, of device, their aura ring, their Apple Watch, their
whoop. So we have more data. We're listening to the same podcasts this more information, and we're
still confused. And when we're confused about what does this mean for me, what do you think that
consumer is going to do. They're going to ask the person who they see 2 to 3 times a week and
that's their coach, trainer or gym owner. And so the the challenge and opportunity
for that coach, trainer, instructor is not to become a master of everything, but to become
knowledgeable enough about some of these topics that they can become a referral. They can
start to refer their members to resources that are relevant to them. You can't be the jack of all
trades, but you can know a little bit about, okay, well, this person is really great on mental health.
Listen to this podcast. Read this book. This person's great on sleep. You know, read this
article. The coach trainer instructor is now being put in the role of quarterback or
conductor. You know, passing the ball around a point guard as opposed to maybe
even 5 or 10 years ago, that person would have been the one stop shop. But it's almost impossible
for one person to be a one stop shop now. So you need to build your team of allied professionals
and subject matter experts to whom you can refer your clients to. When your clients are asking you
these type of questions, the game has changed. There's just so much more data out there. It's
it's both a tremendous opportunity and a challenge for the coach, trainer, instructor, studio
owner, gym owner. What would you say is the biggest challenge? All of it. Like just staying on top of
your game. Like got it. We're going to talk later on about the keys of profitability and
and the number one key to profitability that I don't talk about much because it's not my area of
expertise, is making sure you're delivering impact in the quality of your workout. You can't forget
that that's first. And then there's all this business stuff. You know, AI is changing
everything. Should you be if you had an hour a day for professional development as a as a studio
owner? Should you spend that on AI? Should you spend that on leadership skills for yourself?
Should you spend that on, uh, taking a course on, you know, integration of sleep
and Harvey? Like, there's just not enough time in the day to figure out which of the things you
need to be an expert in. And yet your members and clients are expecting you to be an expert in all
of those things. So the biggest challenge is, is trying to navigate and accept the fact that
you're not going to be an expert in everything and determine what you're going to be an expert
in, and which things you're going to refer out to and who you're going to refer to, or where you're
going to refer people to. I love that. And as you're thinking about that, I'm just thinking
about where there's always an opportunity in our industry is collaboration. I think sometimes I
don't see as collaboration as often as I'd like. So I would love your thoughts on how someone who
may choose to specialize in something and then outsource to other parts of the industry, where
can they start with finding great partnership? Collaboration opportunities across the other
fields? Start within their four walls. Okay. Right. We're talking about anyone listening to
this who is a gym owner has, I would imagine, a minimum 150
clients, sometimes 300 to 500. Start within your walls. Do you have an acupuncturist who's taking
classes with you? Do you have a nutritionist who takes classes and trains with you 2 or 3 days a
week? Start with who's already walking in your door 2 to 3 times a week and find out what
the I guess you could ask people, perhaps through your newsletter or Instagram, um, put out
kind of a call to action we're looking for. If you know anyone, please have. So start with the people
you already know. One of the biggest mistakes that I've seen people make over 20 years
in business development is looking externally before they look internally. Look at your
contacts. Start with the people who already know you. Who do you know? Who did you meet at that
conference last year? Who did you meet in church? In line at Whole Foods. In line at start. Who don't
you just randomly meet? You grab the card and you put it away. You never thought about who do you
already know or have access to? I would always start there. After you've exhausted that,
then look within your community. Look, there's still some very active, thriving Facebook groups
that are divided by modality. And then look at meetups in your in your
community. I was I was at an event a couple days ago and I didn't know. I knew I was going to a
networking event. I didn't know it was going to be essentially a wellness oriented networking event,
which was a bonus. And like half the people there were working with humans in some aspect ranging
from acupuncture to, um, a couple of different surgeons. So there are people in your
community who are already gathering. Go find them. Right? Go find them. You don't have to, um,
reinvent the wheel. Just go. Just hop on Facebook events. Hop on event, Eventbrite events in your
neighborhood. Uh, hop on Instagram events and you'll start to see who in your community is
talking about fitness, wellness, longevity, well-being, etc. find them, DM them. Introduce
yourself. Have the coffee. Tell them about your audience. Tell them what you're looking for, what
your audience needs. Ask them how you ask and collaborate. Yeah, right. It's it's it's not um,
it's not rocket science. It's not hard, but it requires A decision to engage in
outreach. The biggest decision is for the business owner who says, I don't have time for that
because they're overwhelmed by the challenges of running their business day to day.
And so they're locked inside the four walls of their business, and they don't spend enough time
outside the four walls of the business. And that's one of the reasons why their business doesn't
grow. And I'm not saying it like it's easy to do that. It's certainly not easy. But you can't do the
type of outreach to find new clients and to build a network for your clients. If you're
responding to late cancellation emails as the owner, yeah, that's not your job.
So this. Is a. Perfect segue. Um, because I know you absolutely have thoughts on this in what it truly
looks like to be the coach trainer, to become the operator and CEO. So as you
were just referencing, sounds like there are CEOs who are deep in the trenches more than they
should be. Well, they're not a CEO. They're not CEO. No, they're trying to be there.
They are doing what they think is the best, but they haven't yet fully flipped their
mindset. Okay. So talk to us about what that when you see a person make that transition from being
great at their craft to needing to run a successful studio? What is the in-between that
needs to happen to be successful? You know, this is almost like the question of can you teach
leadership or are you just born a leader? Okay. Right. I don't think you can teach mindset, growth
mindset. I think you have a growth mindset. And I think you start out knowing that there is
something bigger out there for me. And I didn't I didn't leave my job to create another job for me.
I left my job to create a company that builds impact. I'm talking the hypothetical, the person
you're talking about either. Decided to enter this industry because they had a passion
to, um, to impact lives, help people become their best version of
themselves. That's everyone who gets into this industry now. What separates them from the people
who become successful business owners? In my experience, it's mindset.
It's people who realize that there's more out there for them. They want to do more. And these
people are curious. They're seekers, they're knowledge seekers, they're readers. They read
everything. They listen to every podcast. They enroll in, professional development courses. They
invest in themselves because their goal was never to be
the technician. You know, you myth. We talked about this, right? Everyone starts out as the technician,
but the people who become successful migrate from technician to manager to owner. And I'm saying
this without judgment. It's okay to be a technician. In fact, there are more people who
should just be a technician and say, I love teaching, I love coaching, I
love being an instructor, I don't love bookkeeping, I don't love SEO, I don't love all this other tech
stuff. And I just want to work with people, help them improve their lives. More people in the
industry should be honest with themselves that that's what they want. And I say be honest, because
if you don't want to do the other stuff, then you're not really committed to being successful,
right? So you're lying to yourself. So you're talking about less than 20% of all the coaches,
trainers in this industry who really have the mindset to do all the extra work. Let me break it
down this way for you. You didn't ask me this question directly, but I think you'll appreciate
this. Okay. Um. Equinox. Tier three trainers.
Um, going back 5 to 7 years, I know they made about $48 for a session that they coached
$48. The clients were paying 150 New York dollars. Right. Clients are paying 150. And the
Equinox trainer was tier three trainer. Right. Not 1 or 2. Tier three was making $48. And you would
ask yourself, well, they would be upset at the fact that they know what their clients are paying and
they're only getting one third of that. Okay, great. So you think you want more of the 150? Here's the
list of things you need to do. Do you want to market? Do you want to write copy for your
newsletter? Do you want to publish your newsletter? Do you want to learn how to use an email service
provider? Do you want to deal with PayPal and stripe? Do you want to deal with integration of
PayPal stripe into your MailChimp. Do you want to deal with credit card chargebacks? Like, there's a
long list of stuff I didn't even mention. Go find the client. Recruit the client. There's a long list
of things that the business owner has to do that the trainer at a big box gym
does not have to do so. Why is the individual coach who has his own clients or his own gym? Why
can he or she keep the full 150? Because they're doing this much more and there's a
cost associated with you got to pay 3% on the credit card fee. MailChimp is going to cost you a
hundred bucks. This platform is going to cost you another. So yeah, you're paying you're getting to
keep the full 100% of what the client is paying you. But then you have out of pocket out of pocket
expenses to hold on to. So what's your actual net from the full in this case 150. Your actual net
might be 100 or or 85 out of versus the 38 versus the 48.
Right. The point isn't the money per se. The point is the recognition that the reason you're making
more money is you're doing more. And that's just as an individual independent coach
trainer. Now put business owner who signed a lease, ten year lease, personal guarantee has
payroll, has laundry service, has all these other thing cleaning service. Put all of that together.
It's a lot. So you're only talking about 10 to 20% of the of the coach trainer structure population
that has the desire, willingness and ability to follow through and executing all those
other things that need to be done for the business to be successful. What's the phrase heavy
is the head that wears the crown? Well, I just gave you a long list of stuff that the business owner
needs to do. And that's why I say if you don't want to do all that. That's fine. You're not a bad
person. I'm not saying anything negative about you. If you're really great at coaching and you don't
want to do this administrative stuff. Like you decided you didn't want an office job for a
reason. You want it to impact lives, and you don't ever want to spend your time at the laptop. Great.
Go coach, teach and train. And the world needs you. So you basically say you're not built for this?
No, because that's negative. That's positive. No. I'm saying the world needs you. Yeah. Every
hospital needs physical therapy. Yes. You're right. Universities need coaches. There is a world where
you can go do your job and not have to worry about marketing and selling. Well, okay, but but
you've got to be honest with yourself. There's a ceiling to your income in those jobs. So if you
want more income, you've got to do this list. That's right. If you don't want to do this list,
then go work at local. university. Local hospital. Local physical therapy center. Deal with patients.
Help them live better lives. Right. It's. It's almost like a being a teacher, being a nurse,
being a social worker. You are doing God's work. Unfortunately, in our economy, you're not going to
get paid well for it. Yeah. If you want to be paid well, you've got to do all this other stuff over
here that is a pain in the behind. Yeah. Where does it come in for the person who.
Needs to delegate those tasks. Right. So I know there was a long list of. Well, this is the mindset.
This is the CEO mindset, okay. Of needing to delegate. Yeah. This is we talked when we first met.
Yeah I made this plug I'm going to plug it again okay. Google Mark Fisher's business books.
Mark Fisher Mark Fisher Fitness, New York City. He is known publicly around the world as having
created one of the highest revenue grossing. Highest gross revenue generating gyms
per location in the history of this country. Mark did 34 million out of one location in
right around the corner from here. Hell's kitchen, New York ten years, 34 million. Not luxury, not
Equinox, just a dingy old building. And Mark is one of the most knowledgeable people I've ever
met. If you Google Mark Fisher favorite business books that lists us long
over 50 some books, and Mark will tell you which of those books he's read multiple times. And when
he says when he says read, he means listen to audiobooks and he listens to it at two x speed.
Okay, okay. So the reason I mentioned that is. We're
at a point now where it's easier than ever to teach yourself whatever you wanted to know, and
that's before AI. I'm not even talking about air. I'm talking about YouTube. I'm talking about, um,
YouTube podcasts, Coursera, all the free courses, uh, Amazon, audible,
Spotify, audiobooks. Easier than ever before to get a book on your phone within five minutes
of listening to me talk about, you know, Emeth boom. Five minutes later, there it is on your phone. Um,
we didn't have that. Yeah. Growing up. So your question was, how do you go from the mindset of
realizing you need to delegate? My answer is read, read. Right. There's nothing I'm going to tell you
that you can't. No, I'm not going to tell you anything original. The list of books are
classics. We're talking John Maxwell's 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. Been around for 20
plus years. Right. We're talking, uh, emeth, we're talking innovator's dilemma. Uh, Chris
Christensen, we're talking. Um, I mean, just you can't. They're
sales, there's Zig Ziglar, there's marketing. Uh, what's the marketing book? Jab, jab punch. You know,
give, give ask. Um, so just read all that stuff, and it's almost impossible for you to read all that
stuff, digest it, and not start changing your mindset again. I'm talking about the top 10
to 20%. Okay. Because they're studying to develop their game as a professional.
Here's how you know who wants to be a coach trainer instructor who wants to be a business
owner. And again, I say this without judgment. Okay. Book on a net. There's two books on the desk.
One's on anatomy. One's in business. Which one? Which one do they grab gravitating towards? Again,
no judgment. Because when I'm in the hospital and I need a physical therapist, I want the
best, most knowledgeable physical therapist to help me with my recovery. So the person sitting in
this seat, if that person grabs the book on anatomy and exercise is great. Stay in that
lane. Become an expert in that lane. Keep current with everything happening new in the space. Your
body worker body mechanic stay in your lane. If the person grabs the business book. Now we're
talking right just naturally because what do we all do? We all avoid doing the thing we don't want
to do. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay, so now let's talk about the person who grabs the business book.
My people, our people, our people, our people, our people. Okay, so you have a framework,
Julian, FDR. Yep. And I'm gonna have you go into it and unpack it. Okay. But ultimately, when I think
about the world that you're in, you are guiding studios, advising studios on. Profitability. And
profitability. So I would love for you to go explain your VR framework. Dum dum
ify it for us. It's simple. Okay. I know you were going to say simple. I'm not saying the
implementation of it is simple, okay? I'm saying the what fer means is simple. Okay. Profitable
studios do three things consistently. They find new leads, specifically
50 new leads per month. They're finding new leads. That's the whole marketing thing we talked about
earlier. Okay. EE. They're enrolling those new leads into their community. However you want to
describe that memberships, recurring class packs, class packs. These people who they find off the
street, walk in the door, they pull out their credit card. They commit to being part of a
community. So they're enrolling them in the are retain retention. They're retaining them. This is
why I mentioned earlier that the part that I don't talk about a lot because again, it's not
my area of expertise, but the part we can't ignore is the impact in the
in the front of house experience. Right. Why do people stay? Well, I can't tell you all the reasons
people stay at a gym or studio. What I can tell you is I don't believe someone who has.
I don't believe someone who's received a positive experience. I don't believe someone who can say
that they have had a positive impact from a studio or gym. I don't think that person leaves.
So that's the in-class experience, right? The instructor is slamming every single time. Not
every once in a while, every single time. The instructor is consistent. The front desk
experience is consistent. They make me feel special. Again, I'm not saying these things are
easy to do. I'm saying the formula is easy to understand. Find new clients. Enroll them into your
community. Keep them. Okay, so now let's drill into each find. The
data says the most effective Legion tactic today is referrals. Okay. Right.
By 2 to 1 it's it's twice as effective as the number two item. And the number two
a tactic which is um paid as twice as effective. Right. And that's a lot of
reasons behind that people. If you're being referred by someone then you already have a, a
testimonial from the person who referred you. Um, you've already you've probably already heard
about this gym or studio for a long time. You already know someone there, right? So it's not
surprising that people respond to referrals and they don't cost. If you're going to really
analyze what the definition of of, um, successful
Legion tactic is, you have to get into, um, client acquisition costs and Roas.
Referrals don't cost any money. Right. So you take someone who comes to your studio and they stay
for six months, and they pay $100 a month for a membership. You just generated $600 in gross
revenue with a very little marketing costs. Or you spend money on meta. You find
somebody who stays with you for six months. They pay 250 a month, right? So now you just earn
$1,500. But how much did you spend on the marketing ad and the marketing agency? Ah, you
probably spent a lot more than zero to. So your client acquisition costs with the paid ad, even
though the client paid more. Your client acquisition, client acquisition costs, what they
call it KAC was higher, right? So referrals is a low cost way to reach people who are already
predisposed to being part of your community because they already because they know someone
who's also a part of the community. So referrals by far the most effective Legion lead gen tactic.
Okay. And how are you thinking about marketing as it relates to content creation, the creator
economy? You do have a lot of most brands are encouraged to have a social presence. Yeah. So are
you thinking about that? I had this conversation in one of our meetings yesterday, another one of
our peer network meetings. Another book I would recommend specifically on this topic is, uh,
Founder Brand. Okay. Right. So I just had a conversation earlier today with the new. I'm going
to come back to your question. Okay. Pilates studio open in Prague s 18 months ago. Okay. She was the
second reformer studio in Prague 18 months ago. 17 studios have opened. Reformer
studios have opened in the last 18 months in in Prague. They're popping up. Prague. I
didn't say Tribeca, Beverly Hills, South Beach, I said Prague. Yeah. Right. So.
And we're hearing that story from our members all over the world. So if you have 19
competitors in your marketplace, how can you guys are all pilots in this example?
Right. Same modality. How are you going to distinguish yourself from the others? Right. At the
end of the day, the average consumer doesn't really care if you're using I won't mention the
brands, but they don't care which brand of reformer machine they're using. The average
consumer doesn't care. So it's not the equipment. Uh, the average consumer is,
um, looking for a basic level of fitness. Increasingly, they want other stuff, but they just
want a basic level of fitness. So how in the prices pricing model is going to be similar in
every region? So then what's the difference between your studio and the other 19. This is
where the creator economy comes in. The difference is that each each
studio has its own community. Who's the head of that community? The founder, in this case, the
founder, is the shepherd of his or her flock. And the the
shepherd has an opportunity through free resources that, again, we didn't have 15 years
ago. Pull out your phone and press. Press. Go record. And now you can you can
talk to your community in your voice, unfiltered. And I don't mean marketing messages. I mean day in
the life. Hey, guys. You know, today is a great day because, you know, this happened. Hey, guys. Shitty
day today. Uh, can't believe you know this happened. But you know what? I pull myself out of bed. I'm
here. I taught the class, and I felt so like being authentically you in Communicating
your message to your tribe. Another great book tribe Seth Godin. Right? Taking note of all this in
the show notes. Friends, um. Using these technological tools that
Silicon Valley has brought us and using them to communicate directly to
your tribe, and how do you know what to say? Be authentically you, and
you will attract the people for whom your message resonates. Yeah. You know,
um, yeah, I'll leave it at that. Well. I'm going to drill a little more because are you in your
advising to your studio owners operators? Are you typically encouraging them to lean into the
social media side? Is it a must at this point? Well. Yes. And so. Okay. I'll connect the dots because you
asked me about to break down the, the f, the the f2 e and the r. Correct. There is a lot of
competition out here now, and when I talk to studio owners about the biggest challenge,
retention is one of the top challenges. And when I asked them to break down what their retention
issues are, it's usually some combination of the poor economy.
The saturated market and. People,
younger people moving away. Depending upon where where you're if you're in a big city and you have
a lot of people in their 20s and they're still in the beginning journey of their life. They're just
they're going to leave. They're going to move grad school, buy a house, whatever. So economy people
moving away in a saturated market, you can't control any of those things. So then
what's the what can you control? You control control the controllable. So what can you control?
You can control your message to your tribe and you. You can control the message that your
team is delivering every day. By team, I mean front desk managers. Instructors. What's the message?
Consistency of message. Right. And so now I'm going to connect this to our very first conversation
about lifespan, health span, longevity, well-being. Because this is almost everything I've shared
with you is is data backed. This is my opinion. Now. My opinion is that we're living in a world where
people are increasingly focused on long longevity, well-being, health span. And one
way to distinguish your brand is to talk about the outcome of the
exercise that your studio offers. Talk about the outcome in well-being
terms. So what do I mean? I had no idea why I've been such a great sleeper in my entire life. I
life. Had no idea until, like the last 5 to 7 years, is connected to the fact that I've been in the
gym 4 to 5 days a week my entire life, since high school. Um, the gym sets. The,
um, has has. What's the word? I mean, you're the you're the expert here. In this
case, it's developed my the rhythm of my circadian. Rhythm, rhythm, all. That stuff.
Lifting weights has created, uh, equilibrium within my circadian rhythm, where I
fall asleep somewhere between 9 and 10 p.m.. I get my seven hours. I wake up naturally.
536 I had no idea that the reason I've never. I've never been an
insomniac. The reason I've never, um, had severe um, because we all have mental
health issues, right? Um, severe mental health issues. The reason I've never had to experience
any of these things because I've been in the gym since high school, consistently. Right? In the gym,
outside in the park. Um, you know, I can't attest to the diet. The diet goes up and down. But my point
is to many studios, coaches, trainers, instructors are still
selling the workout. Instead of the outcome. Instead of the outcome. The outcome is improve
sleep, improve mental health, improved. Um, I mean, if you
talk about nutrition, improving nutrition, there are so many non physical benefits of
exercise. If I were a studio owner I would be talking about that. I'd be talking
about the benefits of coming to exercise beyond simply picking up a dumbbell
or using a reformer. The benefit of, I mean, we could have a whole part two of this conversation
about the loneliness epidemic. Yeah. Okay. And what happens in gyms? And even if you're in a gym, like
a traditional gym, not a studio. You're still with other people. I mean, I built my home gym during
Covid. I have it when it's cold or rainy. I can do whatever I want in my home gym. Remember when it
was like minus five degrees in January? Yeah. You're like, no. No, that's what the that's what the
home gym is for. Right. Yes, exactly. But at the same time, can't wait to get back to the. Even if I'm
not talking to anybody in the gym, I'm around other people. I'm around people to get to the gym.
I'm around people in the gym. And then if you had a group fitness class on top of that with an
instructor who's fire and somewhat, um, inspirational. Where else are you getting
that? Yeah. Right. I, I wholeheartedly believe that wellness thrives in community. So that's where it,
uh. So I would if I were a studio owner that had 20 new competitors
open up within a within my radius, I would be using Instagram, TikTok
and and whatever other digital means to speak my truth to my audience.
And my audience will build organically because they would they would resonate with my truth. If
you don't care about fitness outcomes, then you're not going to come to my studio. But I would be
talking about all the benefits of exercise and that will resonate with somebody. Someone's going
to hear it, they're going to share it with a friend and they're going to come check it, check
me out because they've heard about it. And you know, you know, jab, jab, punch every like fourth or
fifth one, I'd say, you know, here's a, here's a free pass. Come on me. That's what I would be doing. I
would be investing time in the creator economy because you can speak directly to your audience.
No filter, no third parties permission. We're long past the past, the era of, oh, I hope I can get a
record deal. No. Press play. Go get publish. Go straight to the world. There's your record deal. If
you know, you know. If you know, you know. Okay, so now for the E. You did you did share on the
enrollment. And I'm curious what do systems. That's just systems is a system that's a sale. You just
have to have your sales process, uh, sales operating procedures. So just think about how we
all interact. And most of us are, you know, whenever most most of us are busy.
And if we have a moment of time, either in an elevator, um, in the car at a red light, walking
down the street at a stop sign, and you pull up a site and you see a gym offer and you your
email information is automatically popped up into your phone. You can press, you know, site and role
in any offer in about five or 10s on your phone. Okay. And then I'm back to my life.
So if I do that at 3 p.m. on Wednesday, and you don't get back to me until, you know, 9 a.m. on
Thursday. At the window. Do I even remember what I signed up for? Mhm. Right. I don't even remember.
But if your systems are in place such that time, I press send. Boom. I'm getting phone call. Mr. Barnes,
this is, um, you know, uh, Jackie from, uh, you know, Jim down the corner. I heard you were interested
in coming. Hey, Jackie, thanks for calling me back. Now people are going to listen to this and say,
well, no one's answering the phone. Of course they're not answering the phone, but Jackie's
going to then send a text message and say, hey, I just saw that. You want to come check out our
studio? Um, when can you talk? Now. You got me. But that has to be instant. By
instant, I don't mean like an hour later. I mean like within a minute or two. And the good thing is,
the technology is this exists now to automate that. Yeah. Do you have a favorite as you talk
systems in sales that, you. Know, they've got to pay me for that. Come on now. I know that, right? Come on
now. Okay, so let's talk about features of your favorites. No, no, but they can look for. Here's what
I say. Listen, I. There are a lot of this is so much software out there. Yeah. You got to figure out
which one works. Works for you. Okay. Right. Everyone's frustrated. What should they look for?
Top three. Top three things. When you just think of your favorite. Be simple. It's got to be simple.
Simple. Okay. You know you're fine. This is a software company. Sell to the owner,
not the user. The user of the software is typically hourly worker. Front desk
worker. If it's a manager in this industry, average manager salary is 50 to 75,000 annually.
Uh. And everyone most of those people are not, um, they're not CTOs. They're not CIO's. So if you
want the software to be if you want to have a long, uh, love
for the software client. What's the LTV? Break it. Down. Lifetime value. If you're the software
company, you want the studio to stay with you for a long time. You got to make it easy for the
studio to use it. If it's too complicated, I'm not going to use it. If I don't use it, I'm going to
stop paying for it. So number one, it has to be easy for my team to use because I'm
not the one who should be using it. And I can speak for for myself. Personally, I can't tell you
how to use almost any of the software that my company has, and we probably pay for easily
12 to 15 different software packages. I might not know how to use 1 or 2 of them. I'm not talking
about Google. I can do that. But that's not my job. Yeah, to know how to how to use gamma, Canva and
HubSpot and and. Not your name in. All this stuff. Come on. All the stuff.
What Those are the ones I paid for. Okay. That's good. And I say this because they're just, I
imagine to the person listening, they're trying to figure out it's overwhelming and new things are
coming out. All these same companies are adding AI, which is adding the extra edge to it to make it
easier. So I know that there's going to be plenty who are building, who need to make their processes
more efficient. And this is just going to be really important for them to know. Yeah, this is a
rabbit hole that they want to try and avoid going down. I would just say pick your favorite LLM,
whether it's chat, Claude Perplexity or Gemini and ask them which one you should be using for your
specific purpose and trust. What's the phrase trust but verify? Yeah, I would probably ask two
llms the same question and then compare their answers. There's no unfortunately, there's no
shortcut. That's the bad news. The good news is, I got to say this carefully
business isn't easier today. The ability to start and run a business
is easier today because of the availability of information that we have the
the easy access to information that we have today that we didn't have even five years ago. So
the challenge with that is focus, which is why I say you could easily go down a rabbit hole. Got
got to really focus on the most important thing you're trying to accomplish. And don't try and do
everything because that's never going to work. Yeah. And you said to where. So I think you gave
enough on the retention because now there's something you said that I definitely want to
touch on, which is getting started. You have a lot of folks who are interested in starting studios,
as we know they're popping up everywhere. And it's not I know we're seeing a lot of Pilates, but
other studios in general. Yeah, every modality, every modality. So let's talk about the process
of starting a studio. And what often comes up first is money capital
bootstrapping versus getting investment. What's your initial reaction? Talking about our people
now, right. Can we can we talk? Let's talk about our people. Let's do it. We
unfortunately generally don't have access to capital as easy as others. We
generally don't have family and and uncles who can write a check for 100 K or a quarter million,
right? That's just the challenge of of any black owned business in any industry. So
if you think so, I'm talking to two different people, okay. If you're a corporate person and you
hate your job and you can't wait to open a gym, I would say I would say open the gym while you
still have the job, get the loan while you have the job. I, I have a couple of
different clients now, um, who ran their studios for years
while working their full time job. Years. One. I mean, ten years. She built up a $4 million business
before she finally left. Right. Actually, three. I can think of three people. So, number one, if you're
the corporate person thinking about leaving your business, I would say continue to eat the stuff
that you you don't like eating at your job every day. Take that check, take that check. Go to the
bank, get the loan while you have the income. Do your side hustle. Hire a young whippersnapper to
run the day to day business, and you just don't sleep because you work in your business nights
and weekends. Building up a business so that when you're ready to leave your corporate job, you have
your corporate job income already over here. Okay, I'm talking to that person. Keep your
job. Get a loan while you have your job. For the person who's who
is currently a coach trainer, instructor. And there. And they are in that top 10
to 20% by mindset. They don't want to continue working at one of the big box gyms, I would say.
Step up your game. Do more coaching and training outside, right? So
do the bare minimum you need to do within the big box to keep those clients and then hustle at
night, weekends, traveling all over your community for the higher dollar checks.
Stack those checks. I guess what I'm saying is you need to have
appropriate amount of cash to start your business successfully. Either keep your job and stack
those checks, or if you're coaching and training now, double your output, double your two
jobs. Three jobs. What I'm suggesting is the pathway is clear
but not easy. And again, this is why it's the top 10 to 20%, right. Are you willing to do? You're
already doing the 4:30 a.m. wake up to teach or train a client at 6 a.m., 7 a.m., 8 a.m.. Okay, great.
What are you doing between 9 a.m.? Maybe you have a noon client. Maybe you
have a couple of clients in the evening. So your day is starting at 530. First session.
Last session at 830. And. And then you go straight to bed. But you're not coaching and training for
14 hours. You have gaps in there. So what are you doing with online coaching? What are you doing
with adding, um, increasing your knowledge, maybe enrolling in a
nutrition program or another certification? What are you doing so you can maximize your time and
generate revenue between 9 a.m. and noon and between 2 p.m. and 4 p.m.. Right. And what are you
doing on Saturday and Sunday? I'm saying if you really want to open studio, The worst thing you
can do is open and you're not properly capitalized. Fancy word for you don't have enough
money, and I don't mean enough money to just limp along. I mean enough money to do everything the
right way, build out the right way, do marketing 90 days before you open the right way.
PR digital. Unfortunately, a truism in
life is you can't catch up, you can't catch up, so you can't. You
can't open and say, well, I know I have enough to open, but I don't have enough to market that I'm
open. But, you know, once I get more clients, I have more money to market. No, it doesn't work that way.
It doesn't work that way. Yeah. So here's my other question is, is there a world because I know
you're speaking to our people, and what I'm hearing is you got a hustle hustle. And we we do
gotta hustle. But that's always the expectation. There are people I know who come with an idea and
they got capital and investment. Do they look like us? They do not. So what does that look like? Do you
know of any example of anyone who has had an investment based on the idea and their grit and
their character? It's something that people know. No, I can tell you that I just saw.
I saw two women post on LinkedIn this week that they got $6 million in funding
for a business in this space. I won't say more than that. Okay.
They can't be more than mid to late 20s, and the space that they're being funded in is a fairly
new space, meaning they can't they could not have possibly told their investors that they
came with ten years of experience because the industry they're in is very new. So their mid to
late 20s, they don't have a decade of experience. They may be very knowledgeable and very connected
and I don't I don't uh I give them him credit for all that? Yeah. I just don't know anyone who
looks like us in the mid to late 20s who can go get $6 million funding for business without a
tremendous track record, but there's no point in crying about that. That's just the way it is. So.
People have to follow your your roadmap. Right. And it's a harder road.
But you've proven that that road is possible. So to anyone who wants to know how to start their
business, I would say listen to every podcast that you've done where you've told your story, because
that's the more likely path for us. Yeah. What I can tell you doesn't work is and I don't mean
this. Let me say it carefully. I some of us have a dream that's
so strong that they just want to do they want to get working on their dream. And I don't begrudge
anyone for having that dream. What sometimes happens Is
they. They press go and they know they're not ready, and they think they're going to catch up.
And I just haven't ever seen that person catch up. I see. So I'd
rather you delay your dream by a year or two to, to
get people in cash a line, get your get your
network around you and go go make money and save money. So when you start
working on your dream, I'm not saying give up on your dream. I'm saying defer your dream
until you can launch your dream. The right way and the right way is properly
financed, where you can hire people who are. Um, I hate to use the term expert people who have a
documented track record of having done what you need them to do for you, and those people
are going to require you to pay the market rate. You know what else we also do? What do we do? Oh
come on man. You I'm you hook me up, man. Look, you know me. I'm. Look, I can't pay the downtown rates.
Can I get. No, I've spent five, ten, 20, 30 years developing my craft. Why
do you think that you should pay me less than the market rate? I'm really good at what I do. Yeah,
right. So we do. And I'm not blaming. I'm. And I'm not even saying I haven't done that myself.
I'm just saying, if you want to put yourself in the best possible
position to be successful, you need to start the right way. And unfortunately, that
means you need to have sufficient capital to hire the best people and
pay them market rate. So they're committed to delivering their service for you to make you look
good? Yeah. And you need to have the right team. And the right team requires capital. So if
this really is your dream and you don't have access to friends and family who can invest in
your business, then you have to hustle. Okay, so you've hustled. You've got a
team. You've had a long time. My question is, what would make a business fundable? So you've gotten
to the point where you are, you got your A player. You're doing new business. Yeah. Like, I don't think
someone should think about. Fundable a new. Business. There isn't anything you can do to make.
SBA. Long attention. SBA loan. Okay, this is okay. This isn't even race based. This. This is just
the way the market works. Money respects track
record. Okay. And if you don't have a track record but you have everything else, then you have to
say you have to make money so you can save money. Here's the other truism about the world we live
in. Banks will lend you money when you don't need it. Let me say that again. Banks will lend you
money when you don't need it. So you need to make money. Put money in the bank. Go ask for a loan
when you don't need it. Go ask for a line of credit when you don't need it. Don't use it. You
need to do all those things. Have a long term plan. My plan is I'm going to stack checks for X number
of years, and then I'm going to do x, y, z. You know what I'm going to give you an example. It's not in
this industry. And he he was fortunate. Um,
but there's a guy there's a guy in Noel who owns like
15 dental offices in New England. Okay. And he's probably doing about a million per location. Wow.
Okay. When he was in grad school, he knew enough,
uh, he knew enough that dental offices could hire him as a freelancer to come work for
a day. You know, pick up checks and then go back. So for his last 2 to 4 years of working, his last 2
to 4 years of graduate school, he was coming to New York like every other weekend, going all over
the city. One day, uh, in Coney Island, one day in Harlem, one day in, you know, Tremont Avenue,
whatever. Most of his classmates were spending the time studying or relaxing. He was in Boston. He
was driving down three, 3.5 hours every weekend, every other weekend, picking up checks. When he
graduated, he took a job, worked for a year or two for a year or two. Then he bought a business
because he had all that money he had been saving. He had a long term plan, right? Know how tired he
must have been driving home? Nine. 10:00 three hours by yourself after having done surgery for
people all day. Yeah, he was single, so he had no responsibilities for himself. But he had a plan.
Okay. He bought a a dental practice and then he sold that. And he's from New York. But then he
bought into a bigger dental practice up in Massachusetts. The point is, he had a long term
plan, and he was willing to sacrifice for many years with coming down on the weekends picking up
checks. He had a plan. He sacrificed, he implemented, and now he's doing about a million per location,
15 locations, and he works as a dental surgeon two days a week. And the other time he's working,
working, thinking, acting like a businessman. That template copy paste for whatever it is you
want to do. Okay. My point is, it's not easy, but
there's a pathway that's pretty clear. And yeah, it sucks that we don't have access
to friends and family that are going to give us money, but it is what it is. So what are you gonna
do about it? Cry about it, or just make your own way? I guess what trailblazing it is. But remember
what I said. This life's not every. This life's not for everyone. And I don't want people hearing this.
Thinking that they're less than because they don't want to do this work. I am saying the world
needs body mechanics, therapists, technicians, people who only want to help other
people live healthier lives. There is no asterisk next to that for me. That is someone who knows
very clearly the the lifestyle they want to live. And I think that's great that they know
that I'm more critical of people who aren't honest with themselves, who think they want to
be a business owner, who don't want to read the 50 books, who don't want to take three hour drive
each way in the weekend, who don't want to do the work required to to earn the extra. I'm critical
of them. I'm not critical if you realize that's not what you want to do. I'm critical if you say
that's what you want to do, but your actions don't meet that. I want to be very clear on that. No, I
think you're very clear on that. And I and I and I think you did a really great job differentiating
what's required. But then also what is honored. Right. If you. The work is on. Work is yeah. The work
is honored. The work is. On. So I'm the son of a fortunately both my parents are still living and
my mom was a teacher for 35 years. She's been retired for 15 years. So I am son of a public
servant. That work is honorable. And it's not for everybody.
Yeah. Got it. Got to figure out what you want to do. I would say, um, I encourage everyone to take some
form of behavioral assessment. Doesn't matter. Pick one. Take strength finders. Uh, take Briggs Myers
culture Index predictive index. Become more aware of what you're really
good at and what you like to do. And you can be a business owner and not like
doing the business stuff. But you know what? That requires. A team. You've got to hire someone to do
the business stuff and vice versa. You can love the business stuff and hire someone to be the
teacher in the classroom. So I'm not saying you have to be a jack of all trades. Again, I'm just
saying you need to be clear about what needs to be done, and then you need to decide who's going
to do it. And if the answer is I don't want to do it, then you don't want to be in business. If the
answer is I don't want to do it, but I'll find someone who will. Great. Now you're in business. But
someone's got to do it. Yeah. And for those business owners, just kind of coming back full
circle of being in the room, right? I think even you and I are a good example of like being in the
room having these conversations, we got cross-generational, uh, gems being. Just call me old.
See that? You hear. That? That's right though. That's right. That's why I shave my gray hair. That's all
right. You are full of wisdom, and I think that you should take a lot of pride in that. And there's so
much that can pass on to our generation. Right? And one thing that I've been honest with you about is
feeling like there is a better opportunity for there to be more conversations like this in your
mind. You're like a I mean, we got to get into the room. So what does it look like to create more
spaces like this, where I'd say the value exchange works both ways, because I
do believe that there is clearly great wisdom that the experience operators. I'm not calling you
old, I'm calling you experienced and wise. Okay, see. That? You see that? People see how she does that.
Don't do that. Yes. You don't. Don't do that. Okay. Don't do that. And then on the other end, you have
those like myself who are a part of that innovator and cultural relevance and all that.
What are your recommendations to be in the spaces where we can learn in this way? We come
back to mindset. Can't be scared. Scared of what? I'm not scared. I can't answer that.
You're okay. You were telling me about the people, about the response to your post, about why you
should come to HFA. Yeah. What was the. What was the summary of why people didn't think they should go?
They did not feel like it was designed for them. Was that belonging? Was that me? Belonging? I'm
about business. Was belonging right? I just don't understand that concept. And
don't get me wrong, I'm not. I'm not ignoring or denying that every
space has been built for us. I'm saying if you're really clear in your purpose, are you going to let
that let that fact Prevent you from walking into space that you could
benefit from being in every place you and I, um, meet
on the On the Fitness Industry tour. Yeah, and I say you have plenty. So
those every place we are at together, um, the leaders of the industry are
at those events. That's right. I agree. And you and I are leaders of the industry, so why would we?
Why wouldn't I want to be where the leaders are now? I'm not saying
all of the leaders are there. Of course they're there are the unknown leaders
in our communities. But when you're unknown, you know what happens here. Let me let me explain this
in economic terms. Okay. Unfortunately, you could be great at what you do, in this case
your studio owner, and you are in some secondary
tertiary market. You could even be in New York. In fact, I know a multi location studio owner who
looks like us in the city who I never see at any of the events. So you know what happens when she
needs to buy equipment and no one knows who she is. Sorry. She's going on. No, she's going on the
website and she's placing an order for equipment, or she's calling
them. And a sales rep calls her back. And she's this one person by herself who owns 2 or 3
studios, and no one knows who she is. She's paying full price.
If someone. And so this is a true story when I'm about to say one of our members is just opened a
gym last month, you know who he is excited. And so he's building out his as he was building out his
gym. He had different knees and he called me and said, do you know? Do you know a locker company? Mhm.
Not only do I know a locker company, but the woman who runs Biz Dev for the locker company is a
sister. So I connected him with her by text. And if you walk in the gym now he those
lockers are there and I'm sure she gave him a discount because he came through me. My point is,
there is an economic loss that occurs when you're paying full price and you pay full price when
no one knows you, when someone knows you. Oh, let me give you five, 10% off. Let me give you 20% off.
Right. You and I were referencing the opportunities that BFS members get. We get our
members discounts at these industry conferences. Why? Because the conferences know us. They know the
quality of our members. They want our members there. So our members are paying a membership fee
to us. Yes. And one of the benefits of their membership fee is they're getting reduced rates
when they go to the conferences that you and I speak at. Right. So the point is, there is
an economic cost of being the lone Ranger. And as long as you're unwilling, for whatever reason, to
walk in the room, a room that may make you uncomfortable, a room that was not designed for us.
I'm checking the box. All those things are true. Do they want us there? Hmm. Question mark. Did they
design the room for us? Absolutely not. You know all those things either? No. To neutral, to negative.
I'm acknowledging all of that. And still, if you're not willing to walk in the room,
then you're going to be the equivalent of the Lone Ranger. And that means you pay full price. Our
members don't pay full price because they're connected to to us. My business partner is also
brother, right? So that's why you walk in the room? Because that's where the industry leaders are. I
don't just mean the owners of the company. The sister runs Biz dev for a locker company that's
you know, she's not putting that on her tombstone. Yeah. You know, but in this context, she was
important for our mutual friend. Yeah. So that's why you go in the room? Because. What's the
phrase about why did Willie Sutton rob banks? You know, I don't know the phrase. Because that's where.
That's where the money was. Yeah, that's where the money is. Yeah. So why do you walk in these rooms?
Because that's where access is. Oh I agree so and thank you for giving your thoughts because I do
feel like I've every bone in my body knows that I deserve to be in those spaces, whether it looks
like me or not, not deserve. I hate that word deserve. What's. What. You've earned the right to be
in the room. Earned, earned. And so we've also learned there are some events that are only
invitation correct. But those invitations happen as a result of going to others. Who knows you? Yeah.
And that's the thing about being a lone ranger. If people don't know you, how can they refer business
to you? How do people know you? In this context, we're talking
about about five conferences that happen annually throughout the US where the industry, the industry
leaders, convene. Industry leaders include. Podcasters include. Publishers include
equipment, equipment manufacturers. Investors trade association leaders. So
how can you be a gym owner and tell me you don't want to contact and
perform better? You don't want to contact at matrix. You don't want to contact at at
rogue. You don't want to contact at the software companies. You don't want to contact at the Solana
companies. How can you tell me you're serious about running your business, and you don't want to
be where the leaders of those businesses are? The reality is, some people don't even know where to
begin, though, right? Because I know for me I'm yes, there's Google but I can
understand. I think it works both ways. Right. So there is emphasis like be in the room but at the
same time, truly what are those spaces that are bringing together those leaders doing
it to inviting? Well, they're not. They're not. And I'm not just saying us as a I'm just talking
generationally. So when I went to HFA, I'm like, I feel like oftentimes I'm one of the youngest.
Right. It's very male dominated. There's very few of us. Yes. Right. Yes. Yes and yes. I walk in with my
head held high, but that's something that that's me versus someone else seeing that space and
wondering if they would even get value right. So first of all, I was where you were, um, in the
tennis world 20 years ago. Okay, so I understand what it means to be literally the youngest person
in the room. The difference about these conferences that I'm talking about is their setup
for commerce. Okay. And let me be clear. I'm not saying racism doesn't exist. I'm
saying, what do they care about more than race, money, money? So if they can
make money from you, they will be happy to talk to you. These conferences
are focused on. Create. These are B2B conferences. Let's be
clear. We're talking about conferences that are set up for companies to sell products and
services to fitness providers, gyms, studios, etc.. So these equipment companies, these are companies
that provide financing for equipment companies. These are software companies that every gym in
studio needs. So you can't start a gym or studio without having some of the
services that, well, you need basic, you need equipment. You need software, you
need other vendors and suppliers, like you're not just using milk crates in your routines with
your clients. You have to buy weights from somewhere. These conferences are where you meet
the representatives of those companies. So no, the spaces are not designed for us. No, they're
not set up for us, but they're also set up to make money. The
purpose of those conferences is for the partner sponsors of those conferences to make money. So if
you come there and say, I'm a gym owner, here's what I need. They're going to engage with you
because their first priority is to make money. And that's been my
experience within the US fitness industry. HFA
Athletic Connected Health and Fitness Fitness Technology summit. Beyond active. Those are the
five conferences I'm talking about. They're designed to promote commerce.
Everyone leaves that conference. That leaves one of those conferences, and they give themselves a
30 day, a 90 day and a six month timeline. How much revenue did I generate immediately in the
next 90 days? In the next six months? Okay. It's about making money. And so the reason you go is
you're going to meet someone, establish a contact that's going to help your business and your
clients. And the reason people there are going to talk to you is because they're trying to sell a
product to you so they can make money. You're trying to buy that product cheaper so you can
save money. You're trying to discover what's new in the space so you can bring bring whatever the
newest thing is back to your community. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose, walk in the room,
handle your business, walk out, and everyone got what they needed. You don't need to love the
person. I'm not saying tolerate disrespect. I'm saying understand. The purpose of these
conferences is transactional. This is not your tribe. You're not going to get validation from
them. This is not your crew, your church, your past. This is a commercial transaction, period. You take
the money. You bring it back to your community. You keep taking care of your people. You build your
community, and then you know what's going to happen. Those people are going to come to you.
They're going to say, Ariel, see, you have three studios. You know, I like to lend you money to help
you open your fourth. That's when you flip the switch. They start coming to you. So I. See. Stop.
I would not worry about. How I feel when I
walk into a room. And I'm the only person. I would worry about how I. How I feel when I bring
resources back to my community. I'm delivering impact to my community and I get an email from a
client or, or a client pulls me aside and says, you know, I've been coming here for three months, six
months, and you've changed my life. That's your purpose? Yep. Going to these conferences
is a means to help you achieve your purpose. And when I say conference, that's just a euphemism
for walking into the room that you're not necessarily invited in, but you're not
uninvited in. Because the purpose of these rooms, most of the rooms. I'm not talking about the
W.S. rooms, I'm talking just like these business rooms are about business. As long as you're
about business and they think they can make money from you. They're going to talk to you. Yeah. You
got to understand what you're getting out of it as well. Yeah. All right. He said what he said.
What else you got for me? I see a lot of cars there. I know we didn't get to. So I'm going to.
We're going to end this on a on a very quick. I've been doing this with all the guests. Rapid fire.
Rapid fire. How'd you know. I was born yesterday? Okay, so we're gonna. We're gonna do. This is called
the sweat and equity. This or that, and we'll we'll end it on this note. I'm gonna give you two
options. You select one, don't overthink it. And 1 to 2 sentences here. Why? You can tell me the name
of the group that released this or that c c. Is
anyone else? Know that? Come on now, black sheep, come on Spotify. Um,
friends? Who? Come on. Okay, a little black sheep. Came out
with tribe. Same era. Have you heard a tribe? This is the. This is the generation. This is your. This
is my God. You don't know tribal quest. Go and do. Oh, I know a tribe. Called the tribe. Oh, okay. Well, I.
Know a tribe called. Quest black sheep. Okay. You don't know black sheep? No. Oh my goodness.
This is, um. This is a benefit of generational cross generational conversation. Where's the
producer? Give me a little black sheep playing right now. You can get with this. You can get with
that. Oh. But this you can get with this. You can get with that. You get that. See, I didn't know that.
I know the song. I did not know the name. Spotify. YouTube is one and all.
And in defense of that, there are things from my from our generation that I don't know the name of
song, but you play it and I will complete the sentence. Okay. Very quickly. Niche down or expand
offerings. Expand offerings. 1 or 2
census is why. The market is demanding. Systems first are people first.
People. People will manage the systems. People will create the systems. Single flagship location or
multiple locations. Multiple. Unless a single is crushing it, which there are some out there, but
not multiple. Bootstrapping or raising capital. Oh, uh. I mean,
option three. Save. Save your money. And then bootstrap. Okay.
Why? It's just more realistic. Save money, go to the bank, get a loan, and then you can be
in more control. Otherwise, bootstrapping is hard, and raising money is harder. You can't control
either one of those two things. You can control saving and then getting a loan. Okay. Urban markets
or suburban markets? Oh the money. The dad is clear. This is not even an opinion. The dad is clear that
studios in urban markets have two things higher gross revenue and higher profit margin.
And the my best guess as to why that is is when you live in an urban
market, you're expecting to pay higher prices, and that gives higher pricing,
greater pricing power to the business owner. All right. And last one here. Creator led growth or
traditional marketing. Oh creator. What is traditional marketing anyway in this world?
Creator growth. All right. Okay, Julien. Well, good. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for dropping
gems. I hope that you had as much fun on this that I did because you dropped a whole lot. And I know
it's going to be very valuable to our audience. Get with this. You can get with that. I think I get
with this, but this is where it's at. Where's my black sheep? Here's my black sheep. Come on now. I'm
just playing it in my head. There you go. Get with this.