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We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:00]:
I'm not coming down I never knocked it on the ground I'm not coming down I wanna go higher, higher, higher than that. Welcome back to the Business is Human podcast. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, and we're here to bring you episodes that blend meaningful work with profitable success. Here to steward what I call the age of humanity. I believe if we transform the way we work, we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request. If you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episode and leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it too. Always looking to help you and connect with others.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:41]:
All right, let's get into it, shall we? It's that time of year again. I know our real Super Bowl is over this year, but I'm in the season of what is my Super Bowl of my career, the annual Stand Tall in your Story event, which takes place on March 13 in Indianapolis, Indiana, at the Indiana Roof Ballroom. This year, bigger and better venue, more room for you. My task list quadruples this time of year, but I am so excited about the stories this year that will be told from the stage. And if you're unfamiliar with this event, you can go to standtallinyourstory.com and you can actually watch all of the videos from previous seasons. And there's a little link to buy tickets and learn more about it. You can buy a table, you can buy an individual ticket. You can even buy a ticket that says, I'm coming alone.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:34]:
And we will seat you with other people that are coming alone so you can meet some folks and not feel weird about walking to an event if your friends can't make it or you're looking for some new friends. Because this event and everything I do is all about connection. And so I hope you'll check it out. And if you're anywhere close to, I'd love for you to be there. And even if you're not, I have some clients that are flying in from other parts of the country to come be a part of this, so we would love to see you there. All right, let's get into the episode for today. Welcome to the show. I can't wait for you to meet our guest, Lindsey Bingaman.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:08]:
When somebody says to me, oh, my gosh, you have to talk to this person. She's also passionate about uniqueness and self awareness, which is a topic that I could geek out on for days, I said, self, sign her up. Let's get her on the show. Lindsey is the head of SureAcademy. And what she does is helps teams gain a deeper understanding of themselves and their co workers so everybody can do better work together. And what I love about this conversation is it's an authentic get to know you conversation. Just like we were having coffee together. And the second thing that came out in this conversation, which was unexpected and I think really important is the role that AI plays in self awareness and helping teams work better together.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:02:53]:
So I can't wait for you to hear it. Here we go. Okay, Lindsey, so we are going to treat this interview like the coffee chat kind of vibe, like we're just getting to know each other because that's exactly what's happening. So share with our listeners a little bit about the stuff that you're just insanely passionate about, which happens to be the work that you're doing today.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:03:16]:
Yeah. Thanks Rebecca for having me today. And you know, I feel so fortunate in so many ways to be doing work that brings me to life in so many ways. And part of that is around people patterns. And if you look at my particular profile, people is everywhere. In my profile, I'm a double fisted people person. I like to talk, I like to listen. You know, I'm curious about people patterns.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:03:36]:
So what really brings me to life is just understanding in one way how we're each incredibly unique based on our individual life experiences, but then in other ways how there are these immense and predictable people patterns that are out there. And I think for over the, you know, past 50, 100, you know, since the beginning of time, there's always been ways of your horoscope or Myers Briggs or different ways of understanding people patterns. But I think part of what I hope to do in my work is help people understand that these are actually really valuable data sets that we could use in the flow of work in a really powerful way. Instead of just kind of being like, oh, I'm an owl or I'm a red or you know, like that was fun. Okay, like let's go do our work.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:25]:
So when you say people patterns, give us a little bit of description about what that is and what that means.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:04:32]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:04:33]:
From your view and from your work.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:04:35]:
So there's a lot of different frameworks and again, some of the more popular ones out there over the years have been DiSC or Myers-Briggs or you know, I use one called PRISM. It incorporates a lot of different models into it and again, the different frameworks are all a little bit unique. But in the one I'm thinking of like, are you more a detailed person or Are you more big picture? Are you more inclined to be a people oriented or are you more tasked? So however you want to frame the dimensions, the one I use has like 54 traits and attributes. But there are really common themes around how people show up on these traits and attributes. So when you start to see that, you can understand personally, okay, what do I need to do to support myself in light of my wiring this way? And then how do I need to show up differently for others to interact with them more effectively?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:24]:
So how does that relate to the fact that we are all unique down to our fingerprints? So all the work that I do, I'm always looking at the intersection between brain, the Bible and business. God created us all unique. How does that connect? How do those patterns connect to our uniqueness?
Lindsey Bingaman [00:05:43]:
You know, I don't know. For people who have multiple kids or a group in families with siblings or no families with siblings, I think it's a really great experiment to see, like how two kids could be born to the same family and yet have wildly different personalities.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:57]:
Amen.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:05:58]:
You know, one is bold and like, pushes the envelope all the time. The other one's shy and compliant as just an example. So I think from early stage we kind of have a set point. This is my personal belief. And then over time, our experiences, the parents we have, the different things I think really begin to shape and cause us to show up differently and really be incredibly unique people. And I think when you're working with people patterns, you really have to be careful that you don't overgeneralize. And one of the things I always hold is like, you are the expert on you. And this also comes from my, which I know you have as well, like my background as a coach, which is that the person knows themselves, they hold the wisdom.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:06:39]:
And so in using some of these people pattern assessments or whatever we want to call them, you can say like here some awareness that might be helpful for you, but ultimately you'll never find me saying, this is who you are. Just look closely, you'll see it. Because it's really important to respect that individual uniqueness and complexity that might not have been captured on it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:06:58]:
Yeah, I'm always saying my job is just to hold up the mirror and help you see you, but it's really about how you see you, not how I see you or anyone else. How do you guide people, coach people to use these people patterns in their life and work?
Lindsey Bingaman [00:07:16]:
So, and especially in leadership and organizations, it's relevant in so many ways and, you know, it's relevant for first time leaders to get to know themselves. It's relevant for teams, it's relevant for CEOs, every aspect of organizations and teams especially. And what a lot of the research has showed us over the past, let's say 20, 30 years is that the biggest differentiator between good and great leaders is emotional intelligence. And at the foundation of emotional intelligence is self awareness. And so things like this really help people understand how am I showing up, what's the energy that I'm bringing and how do I adjust or go out into the workforce especially and create positive, resonant relationships.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:01]:
Yeah. Amen. And it's interesting, I find that people are so looking for the quote unquote right answer. And I often say normal is just a setting on the dryer because we want to cling to this belief that there's a normal so that I can go judge myself and others against a standard and a belief that I've created. And what you're saying, I believe, what we're saying is that's not true. There is no standard when it comes to people. There's awareness that helps you connect with others in a meaningful way versus judge one another or believe that you're supposed to aspire to some standard that isn't real. So I get concerned when people use these things that are meant for self awareness.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:03]:
I get concerned when people use them to tag their identity in a way that says, well, that's who I am. That's just who I am. Here's my quote unquote tests to validate that this is who I am. It's not really about that. It's about how do I know myself well enough so that I can connect with others in a meaningful way. That's a staunch belief that I have. How does that sit with you in the way that you move through the world and, and use these tools?
Lindsey Bingaman [00:09:36]:
And there's so much there in what you said. And I want to go back first to the earlier part when you talked about this kind of right or wrong. And I think it comes up a lot in coaching, sometimes with assessments where it's like, oh, is this the right profile or the wrong profile? And other times with decisions where it's like, is this the right decision or the wrong decision? And there's a beautiful model out there that I refer to a lot. Jennifer Garvey Berger wrote a book about it called Changing on the Job. And she talks about a lot of adults being in this transition point from black and white thinking of like, what's the right answer? How do I go ask the expert for the right answer to this third stage, which is more about my ability to handle complexity and how do I understand that there's no right or wrong, there's just shades or gray. And then I become the chair of my own board of directors, so to speak. So I may consult my experts, but ultimately I'm the one that decides what, you know, is closer to or further from the things that I value. So I think, you know, when it comes to these assessments, it's really about, and I absolutely agree with you, it's not like, well, this is me, you know, take it.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:10:39]:
Some people, if you have the power position, maybe you can do that. I certainly wouldn't advocate for it, but it's really about an invitation to, especially in leadership circles, who's the leader you want to be? What's the impact you want to have? What's the legacy that you want here? And how do you use your self awareness to help leverage those strengths towards that or understand what might get in your way? And I think I feel really passionate about this part especially. I think a lot of assessments really lean into hiring selection in ways that sometimes feels like they're closing the doors on people. And I understand there's absolutely value in using them that way. But the way I love to see some of this stuff used is more of like, okay, what do you want more than anything in life and how now by understanding your preferences, what do you need to develop to go out and get that?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:28]:
That's something I can absolutely just cheerlead all day long because who I was 10 years ago, and I like you, have grown up in a career where we've been surrounded by this type of work and discussion, which I find to be a huge gift. And so I've been fascinated with self awareness since I was 27 years old and now at 58 today I'm a different person at 27 than I was at 32, than I was at 45 and, and each version of me, I was very in tune to who that was. But it wasn't with the idea that I needed to stay there. It was how can I take what I know about myself now and evolve into the next version of me. And I think too often that's a hindsight thought, like, oh, I can look back and see about 27 year old me or 35 year old me. But I think the work that you and I are passionate about is using this self awareness in a future thinking mindset to say, okay, this is who I am now, but how Can I use this to understand and evolve into even a better version of myself?
Lindsey Bingaman [00:12:49]:
Yeah. I love so much what you're saying, and I think a lot of people will think, oh, obviously you change a lot between 10 and 20. And yeah, you change a lot between 20 and 30. But what I think a lot of people discount is how much you change between 30 and 40 or 40 and 50. And, you know, and I love this idea of adult development and how if we're open and we continue to seek and do our work and we really can have these incredible periods of growth no matter what the decade is in our lives.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:18]:
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I love the studies that show household names of people that didn't start until they were 50 something, 58. Those are inspiring for me.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:13:30]:
I know. I totally agree.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:13:32]:
And I. I think especially now in a time of social media pumping out all of the accolades for youth and the whole just like rich and famous at 27 can leave people thinking, oh, it's too late. My son is going to turn 27 in a week or two. And he said to me, like, this one felt weird. This one felt like, should I have had more figured out already? And he's a musician and a songwriter and has lots of dreams and aspirations. And I said, oh, no, don't fall into that trap that literally is the devil trying to get you to give up and quit. And so we had that discussion about how many people aren't discovered or quote, unquote, make it from his perspective until later in life. Because I think that God's always doing a good work in us and sometimes it takes our blessings aren't ready yet, and that's okay.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:14:25]:
I totally believe that. And I feel like there are these birthdays at different times which kind of bring stuff up for us. Like, for me, that was 35. And when I hit that mark, it was like, oh, I could see around the bend and 35 is close to 40, and then 40 is close to 50, and then 50 is, you know, so it's like, whoa, this is going way too fast. But, you know, in my personal experience, there's arcs of work that have started in my life and taken 5, 10 years to kind of bear fruit and to come full circle. And so you just never know. And I think that's why it's so important just to kind of trust and be doing your work and just kind of staying focused, because you never know what is in store 100%.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:05]:
If you were to look across the various themes of success that you've noted and been a part of with your clients as they've become more self aware. What are some of those like, benefits to it? Those things that you're like, oh, a lot of people derive this or that benefit of doing this work of self awareness and really understanding your, your clear patterns.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:15:31]:
It's like there's some patterns of the types of changes people make. And then everyone's unique journey is like incredibly specific. And at the outset of all of my coaching, I always have people set a commitment statement. So I am a commitment to fill in the blank, whatever that is. It can be abstract, it can be really concrete. It was part of some of the training I did with the Strozzi Institute.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:15:51]:
Give me an example of a commitment.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:15:52]:
Statement that my client had was I am committed to knowing my daughter. And she was a very busy executive. She realized that her daughter had about three more years left before she was going to college and that she had been missing out on big swaths of her daughter's life. So I feel that deep. Okay, so, okay, you know, like, and think about what her profile must have been. She was probably high power, you know, extroverted, structured. She was wired to be in an executive role. And yet she didn't want to miss out on this really important part of her life.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:16:30]:
And so we kind of work with, okay, how do you slow down? How do you change your shape? Like this quote, unquote, like way you've showed up historically has really served you, but now how do you change and show up differently in a way that's going to help you meet this goal, this commitment to knowing your daughter?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:16:46]:
That's beautiful.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:16:47]:
Yeah. So it's really meaningful like to sometimes the work, I feel like it's just in helping people create these statements and just really broadly speaking, the ones I find the most rewarding are twofold. Either people who are incredibly task oriented and driven, work focused, learning to become more relational and bringing out their softer selves, and then individuals who are a little bit more sensitive. You know, I'm thinking about some of the dimensions in the work that I use who maybe have a big antenna for emotional data, maybe run a little more hesitant. Helping them find their big bold, empowered selves is also some of my favorite change that I see people make do.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:17:30]:
People get surprised by the shift and.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:17:34]:
This is where it's, you know, it's interesting. Sometimes I think they see some of their profile. It's like, whoa, I knew I was kind of that way, but I didn't realize that was so much that way. And then they are surprised and they didn't realize actually this is part of themselves. It's just an underserved or we call a alienated part of self. Like I am compassionate and I am a good listener, or you know, I am able to, to share what I'm feeling. It's just not a part of myself that I've exercised at all or given any airtime. And so I think they are really surprised when it's like, oh, you know, I can develop that capability no matter what, to your earlier point, what stage of life I'm at.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:18:11]:
And so it's really a privilege to come alongside people and help them become more self aware and move towards the things they care about most in life.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:18:19]:
Is, you said something really important when you were giving the example about the woman who wanted to know her daughter well, is that the pattern she had been in had served her well. And so when you're inviting this new idea, this new pattern into your life, it feels risky to let go a little bit of that old pattern. Is that something with your clients? Like, how do you help them through that and navigating through that change?
Lindsey Bingaman [00:18:49]:
Yeah, it's incredibly risky because it's been a very effective strategy for them their entire lives. And maybe, you know, in the, the somatic school of thinking is we all shape ourselves to get our needs met, for significance, for belonging and for safety. And so for whatever reason, based on our family, based on our personality, based on our environment, we take shapes that help us get our needs met and often help us become very successful. And so when you're working with somebody to kind of understand that shape, quote unquote, and to let go of it, it's very scary. We often go through three different questions when I'm working with people, which is like, how has this thing served you? How has this shape served you? How has it gotten in your way? What does it cost you? And what do you want to say to it?
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:19:30]:
Ooh, say that once again because they're good.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:19:32]:
How has it served you? So for her, if it was like this executive, and sometimes we'll name it like Turbo or something, how has it served you? What does it cost you? So in her case, it cost me from getting to know my daughter. And then what do you want to say to that shape or person? And sometimes it's, I don't want you anywhere near here, Goodbye, see you never. And other times it's like, I just need you to step back. It's just kind of interesting to see sometimes people's visceral reaction of like, no, I don't want to let her go, or okay, yeah, I never want to see her again.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:05]:
No, that's powerful because we're never ever going to shame ourselves into a better version of ourselves.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:20:11]:
Exactly right.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:12]:
And so honoring that, that pattern, that version of self has served in some way. And even if it's, I don't want to ever see it again, but being able to say, thanks, thanks for the memories. And now I'm going to step over here to this new version of myself, I think is a beautiful honoring that makes it easier for us to make that shift instead of being ashamed of it. Because all of our thoughts come from love or fear. And if we have fear because of our past, of who we've been, we don't want that stuck in ourselves. That's not gonna serve us well.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:20:46]:
Exactly. And that's what so much of the research on change is showing us lately is like. Change doesn't come, like you're saying, from shame or from these negative emotions or from deficit based thinking. It comes from what's the vision I have for myself and how do I move towards that? And it can be scary, but when you have that vision, it motivates people to, to take the risk.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:06]:
Are there other benefits or patterns of things that you've seen in your clients? Like that example with the daughter. I love that one. What are, what are some of the others that you've seen that have emerged where, ooh, a lot of people experience this benefit or that outcome?
Lindsey Bingaman [00:21:21]:
I think something else that's coming to mind for me is teams. So, you know, we've been talking a lot at the individual level, but with teams, it's really interesting application for some of this stuff. And it's not new. You know, using personality psychometric data at the kind of aggregate level has been around for a while, but when you put it with technology and AI, like we're doing, you start to be able to understand and see these team patterns that otherwise are incredibly invisible and intangible. And I think that's one of the things that's been so interesting to me to see. One example that I've used a lot is a group that comes together and they find that like, they keep making a decision, but then they revisit it and they're revisiting it and they're revisiting it. And by week four, week five, they're coming back and thinking like, why are we not making movement towards this goal? Why do we keep revisiting it? And then you see some of the patterns of their team. And you realize, oh, my word, the whole team is high spontaneous.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:22:18]:
And when you're high spontaneous in that dimension, it means you like to stay open to new information and you like to pivot as new information becomes available. And so suddenly it's like this invisible thing that was so frustrating becomes really clear. And then you can intervene and put in a process in a really effective way that keeps everybody from just banging their head against the wall.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:37]:
Ooh, that's good. I love that. I just watched Joe Rogan had a podcast with a gentleman who wrote a book called The Big Toe of Humanity or something, and it's about really human consciousness and the science. He's a physicist, and this is the science behind it. And it's fascinating because I believe, finally, which I've always just wondered this even early on in my journey to understand the Bible is to me, I would read the Bible and be. It would validate science for me and validate everything that I knew about human behavior. And I'm like, why? Why are we treating this as separate? Even though he's an atheist and as a physicist, came to the conclusion that consciousness is biblical and is, you know, God is governing over all of creation. And what he said was coming back to what you said about AI is the rapid pace of change is undeniable.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:23:31]:
And so the more awareness we have with tools like the ones you're using, the coaching and the conversations you and I are having, the more awareness that you can bring to people, the more rapidly they can change and evolve. You know, hundreds of years ago, we didn't have access to much other than what was happening to us that we were responding to. And so now we have the ability to be more proactive in understanding ourself in a way that allows us to create a new version of ourselves more rapidly. And so I love the use. And he said the use of AI, Joe Rogan asked him the question, how will AI accelerate the pace? And he said, absolutely, because I believe, like, most things can be used for good or evil, that the use of AI to your exact point of that example, will allow us to have deeper levels of self awareness and team awareness and dynamics for making our work better and more aligned to our humanity than treating us like machines here to produce that we're all just supposed to show up and do the work and not think about the fact that we're all coming to the work in a very different state of consciousness and awareness of ourselves and awareness of each other and. And tools like this allow us to like save four weeks of being frustrated with each other and let's get on with a damn thing.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:24:57]:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's so much more efficient, especially if you think about like the team forming, storming, norming, you know, performing. It's like, ah, we can get through the storming phase so much more quickly. And I love, you know, how you're connecting awareness with the rapid pace of change and how that ongoing awareness is so critical because things are changing so quickly. And when we have awareness, we have choice. So it really is, you know, I know for a lot of people, AI brings up a lot of agita, but I'm kind of like, if you can't beat it, then just, you know, lean in.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:25:26]:
All things can be used for good or evil. I mean, seriously.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:25:30]:
Exactly. And there's immense capability here, you know, so with the cutting edge of people data is almost think of like ChatGPT, but with psychometric data. So being able to, you know, if it's a team, being able to say as a leader, okay, here's my team's data. Here are all the different dimensions of our 10 people. Okay, I need to facilitate a change process. How should I do it? And AI is able to just metabolize it and take it into, from insight into action, as we like to say, and really create a prescription in a way that's like, why wouldn't you use that instead of traditional coaching consulting? It's like, yeah, we've got great brains, but I don't need to overthink it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:11]:
Absolutely. I've been messing with customized reflection daily, weekly and monthly. I've always called them Thrive tools, but traditionally I've created them based on my content. And so I've been working with a few clients to customize them based on their unique gifts and talents, based on their goals for the year, based on their limiting beliefs, based. And so we, we sat down and did an interview for the year and just laid all that out and said, okay, well how do you want to feel this year? What are some of your intentions, areas that you want to focus on? Not necessarily hard and fast external why, by when goals and, and just some of those human dynamics of who they are and then their unique gifts and talents, their challenges or limiting beliefs. And then we, I put that all into AI and said, okay, create based on my content that we've been working through for the last several years with these clients. Give them a daily, a weekly, and a monthly reflection sheet.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:27:05]:
Amazing, y'all. Yeah, that is good stuff. That's crazy.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:12]:
I am loving it, because it feels literally like what my promise is, which is I'm going to hold up the mirror and help you see you. So to your point, if we can help our clients get there faster through these tools and assessments and AI, like use it for good.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:27:29]:
Exactly.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:30]:
I just don't want people to use it for the, the dark side, which is I am who I am and if you don't like it, go work for somebody else. That's not what it's about.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:27:38]:
No. And it's not a sustainable perspective because it's. Well, let me know how that works out for you. You can get short term results, but I guarantee you people are going to have one foot out the door if that's how you're leading.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:27:48]:
Especially in this day and age of raised consciousness and awareness. And in a post 2020 world when everybody is in a state of reevaluation of life and work, now's not the time to hunker down on your I'm the boss mindset.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:28:03]:
Especially with Gen Z, they have high expectations for engagement and work, life balance and all that, as they should. So really like you can maybe get away with that with millennials, but not the new workforce.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:13]:
I love that you brought that up because I also yesterday ran across this clip about a study that was done with Gen Z and they were known, based on this assessment, thousands of Gen Z-ers it was sent out to more open to a conversation about God and spirituality than any other generation that we've had. And so that tells me that this rapid pace of consciousness and awareness is real. And so that idea of materialism in industrial age mindset is starting to take a backseat to those that are saying, no, I want meaning in my life, in my work. And I don't just mean like, I want you to be nice in the conference room. Like my life matters to me more than my work. And I believe leaders who are ignoring that reality or wanting people to go back to the way it used to be because that was easier for them. As someone who has enjoyed the power of a title or the ego of a title, that ship is sailing away rapidly. And the more we can embrace the collective consciousness of kindness and love and connection, everybody wins.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:29:26]:
Yeah, that's so interesting that that's what they're finding in some of the new generation. And you're right, it presents like a much more complex leadership challenge of how do I motivate or tap into some of these other things. If people aren't just here for a paycheck or my direct reports are asking Existential questions, you know, and it also requires leaders to have done their work so that they can show up and support their people in a more abstract and complex way.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:50]:
I love that you're doing this work because I believe that we are a part of a greater movement in society that is important to us all, deriving a sense of meaning and significance and belonging and not just safety of a paycheck and benefits. And that matters. And it takes all of us doing this work with great passion and intention. Back to what I said earlier about different versions of me. When I first started this business eight years ago, I had a high value for my own unique creativity. Like, I left a really good, paying, safe, significant job for a great company to go out on my own. And so I thought going out on my own was all about my unique ideas and my unique content, and I had to really embrace the ideas that God was giving me. And.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:30:48]:
And I'm competing against other people's ideas from my space in the market because that industrial age mindset, man, those patterns run deep. What God showed me pretty rapidly in almost a correction or a, hey, get your act together, was you're just one of millions of people that I am planning ideas in at this time for such a time as this. Like, you're part of the team, but you're not. It's not about you, sister. It's about me giving you ideas that help everybody come to this new level of understanding that just working for a paycheck and benefits is not what I put y'all here on this earth for. And so I say that to say yay, that you're so passionate about this and that you want to come on podcast and publish things and be out inviting people to come in and do the work that you do with you so that they can enjoy a deeper significance and sense of belonging in their life and work matters. Yeah.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:31:53]:
Well, thank you so much, Rebecca. And I love the picture you just painted. And I totally agree. I feel like there's an element here of us as coaches, as change agents, you know, in this kind of group of people who are out there helping people to think more deeply, to reflect in an age where nobody reflects anymore, you don't have to. You have your phone with you all the time. I really do think we're all working alongside each other to help people live more evolved and kind of intentional lives. So thanks for saying that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:32:19]:
I had a client say to me the other day, if you would have told me that I was going to pay you a pretty decent amount of money for me to realize that daily stillness was going to be the answer to most of my problems. I wouldn't have believed you. I'm like, it's hilarious.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:32:33]:
You really can't describe coaching or describe the ROI on it, but it is incredibly valuable.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:32:39]:
I just smiled, laugh. I'm like. Because we also have a belief if I don't, that it's gotta be hard to be worth it. And I'm trying to help clients reshape that pattern and that narrative to say, not always. Like sometimes it's just sitting with yourself and reflecting on who you are and what do I want and letting the Holy Spirit speak to you, if that's your thing. And, and realizing that, oh, it was all my busyness that kept me from being ultimately evolving into who I really want to be. While I was hustling and trying to make it happen. I could have just been sitting in the sunlight for a minute and letting it come to me.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:33:20]:
Instead, sometimes the real work is in the stillness.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:33:24]:
Absolutely. And if you would have told 32 year old me that, I would have been like, get out my way, I got to do and go.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:33:34]:
You'll have to be ready for the message.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:33:36]:
Exactly, exactly. So the fact that people like my 27 year old son or my 24 year old or 23 year old daughter are getting this message even through TikTok and just places where they are already hanging out, they're learning about a lot of the things that we're teaching in a corporate sense, to be more awake and aware I think is a beautiful thing.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:34:01]:
Yeah, it's great. It's a great use of those platforms.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:03]:
So if somebody wants to come and work with you because you've got data and science and all of the background that most people are looking for, if they're listening to this today and saying, I like that Lindsey, she knows all the studies, she's got all the stuff. Who is it that you that would come to work with you like you identified early on? It could, it could be anyone, it could be a CEO, it could be somebody in the middle of your organization who would come to work with you.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:34:30]:
Anybody who I think especially people in leadership roles or people who are working with teams and want to bring, you know, greater awareness to our team. Their team is definitely kind of the classic example, but really it could be anybody. Anybody who wants to know more about themselves, who wants to, maybe they have things that they really care about that they want to move towards. So, you know, the most work I do is inside organizations and again with leaders and teams. But it really, you know, if you're a human being, you know, it's not a very narrow niche, but it's really just applicable to the human experience in general.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:35:03]:
I love that you said that, because the old way of marketing and business thinking was, you know, you got to narrow it down into avatar. And I'm like, if you're human, I can help you. Sorry. And so do. Is it mostly companies that hire you to come in and do this, work with teams, or do individuals come in and work with you as well?
Lindsey Bingaman [00:35:22]:
Yeah, it's mostly companies. So, you know, leaders with teams or entire companies who are using people data that I work with to understand how to help them solve a lot of their challenges, whether it's leadership challenges or team challenges or cultural challenges. So it's really interesting when you start to see some of this stuff, the patterns that show up in different teams or at different levels of organizations. That is kind of the classic, you know, example.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:35:49]:
And I love that because then you know that no matter what division or department that you're in, that there's a common approach and a common language, that everybody is experiencing some aspect of this, which makes it far easier, because that's a lot of times the biggest challenge in an organization is you can have a team that's functioning really well in one division or one department, but they aren't functioning well with the others. And so you're breaking down some of those barriers and those walls to make sure that people are communicating across the organization, not just within their own teams, which is so helpful.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:36:21]:
Exactly. And a lot of this stuff creates a shared language, so people have, you know, are able to refer and speak to what's happening in a way that can be really powerful.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:36:28]:
So where can people find you if they want to dig in and understand more about how you can help them know their patterns and understand how to commit to shifting them? Where are you hanging out at that they can connect with you?
Lindsey Bingaman [00:36:40]:
Well, I am on LinkedIn way more than I'd like to admit, so they can find me on LinkedIn and also my company website, surepeople.com has information to get in contact with me. So happy to be contacted by either of those venues.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:36:55]:
Excellent. I love your vibe. I love your energy. I'm glad that we had a chance to get to know each other a little bit today on the podcast. And I encourage people to reach out and connect with you and see if there isn't something that you can do to help them shift some of those patterns. Thank you.
Lindsey Bingaman [00:37:11]:
Thank you. So much. Rebecca, it's been a pleasure talking with you today.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:37:20]:
Thanks for being here. You can follow us on Instagram Business is Human or TikTok. Rebecca Fleetwood Hession. It's a great way to share some of the clips with your colleagues and friends. All right. Make it a great day. Love you. Mean it.