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Classic & Curious is a lifestyle podcast for those who value timeless style and the art of living a considered life.
Hosted by Anne Kokoskie, the show introduces you to those that inspire thoughtful living. Through thoughtful conversations with artisans, designers, brands and creative thinkers, we dive into the details that elevate the everyday.
Home & Craftsmanship: From interior design to the makers behind the objects we cherish.
Travel & Exploration: Discovering historic destinations and boutique travel experiences.
Entertaining & Hospitality: The art of hosting, tablescaping, and the well-lived kitchen.
Join us for a more intentional way of living, where beauty and substance meet.
I worked with Kelly on an app. She, like, reaches into my skull and executes in the way that I would want if I knew how to design. But we said, how about the dots are skulls and the bams are snakes and the cracks are, like, lips with fangs. And the jokers were all different. We said like one will be a ghost and a tombstone that says she loved Mahj and all in the back will be a web.
Jill:And she just did it in such an edgy way where it's not cheesy. Like the skulls, there are many ways to do a skull and hers are kind of Andy Warhol with metallic patina and she just makes everything cool.
Anne:This is Classic and Curious. I'm Anne Kikoski, and each week I bring you conversations with the founders, tastemakers, and creatives who have mastered the art of living with curiosity and intention. The spaces we inhabit, the tables we gather around, the places we seek out, so you can develop a sharper eye and design a life that feels distinctively your own.
Anne:Welcome back to Classic and Curious and Do We Have a Treat for You. Today we're celebrating the shared love of Mahjong and the wonderful art of gathering it inspires with Sandy Drucker Wright, co founder of Center and Spring and her wonderfully wicked collaborator, Jill Kargman, a born and bred New Yorker, writer, actress, producer, and New York Times bestselling author. Sandy and Jill have created something playful and stylish where every piece celebrates a little Halloween magic. We are so thrilled you're here today. Welcome ladies.
Jill:Thank you so much for having us. Oh, it's my pleasure.
Sandi:Thank you, Anne. This is great.
Anne:Oh, we're gonna have a lot of fun. So this feels like such a natural and creative pairing. And that said, I would love for you, Jill, to share how the collaboration with Center in Spring came to be.
Jill:Well, was all Sandy. Honestly, it was her idea. We met on vacation last Christmas and we started playing Mahjong together and I'm such a brat. I don't like the plain tiles. I really just like using other tiles.
Jill:And so we started. We met through a mutual friend and played in New York and she's like, should do a tile thing like a spooky set. And I thought, oh my god, that's fusing my two favorite things, Mahjong and Halloween.
Anne:Oh, I love
Sandi:soap.
Anne:I was ecstatic. It's so fun. And so Sandy, we have to take a step back. Tell us a little bit about Center in Spring, introduce the listeners to the brand.
Sandi:Sure. So two years ago, I went to a designer show house in Southport, Connecticut called Rooms with a View and designers create these six by eight like mini rooms, little vignettes and I walked by one and there's a big crowd and I kind of peeked in and I saw this was a really cool room set up as a Mahjong bar and like a cigar bar, but for Mahjong. And there was this incredible table in the middle of the room that was the centerpiece and it was pedestal based. It had an octagonal top. It had these like touch latch tray drawers that came out to put up.
Sandi:Everyone knows who plays Mahjong, you need a place to put your phone and your drink, snacks. And I was just completely overwhelmed by this creativity and the beauty, actually the beauty of the table. So I asked the designer, her name was Peyton Cochran and I said, where did you get that table? And she said, I made it. And I said, oh my gosh, where did you make it?
Sandi:And she said, I made it in Bridgeport, Connecticut, which is right up the road. So one thing led to another and I asked Peyton, first of all, if I could buy the table. She said yes. So that was my mom's Christmas present that year because she comes and stays with us twice a year and plays a lot of Mahjong. She taught me how to play, my three daughters, my sister.
Sandi:And then I said, we should talk. Have you ever thought about scaling the business? And she said, no, I'm an interior designer. I really have no plans. And I said, you know what?
Sandi:Here's my card. Let's get together and have a conversation. And about a month later, we had a conversation and about three months later, Center and Spring was born.
Jill:Oh my gosh. The best tables in the business.
Anne:Yeah. They're amazing. And they're so beautiful. That's the thing. When you can get function and beauty at the same time, that's your superpower.
Sandi:My business partner, my co founder, Peyton is an incredible designer. Her mind works in ways that mine doesn't. We're a really good compliment for each other, but she is just incredible and she had this vision and she keeps, I mean, we have a lot of other things in the pipeline that she just kind of comes up with and it's been so much fun. Really great.
Anne:I love that. So Jill, tell us about your love for Halloween.
Jill:I feel like it was lifelong. I was a really spooky child. I guess I was, I always watched the Muppet Show since its inception. And when I was four, Alice Cooper hosted, and I feel like I think of that as one of the seminal moments of my life because it was like a really goth episode, and they had the really big Muppets that were like monsters. And I was a little scared and titillated and, like, obsessed.
Jill:And from that point on, I asked for an Alice Cooper vinyl. I was really always kind of into rock music, but I don't know it like somehow Halloween was my Christmas and my favorite day of the year and just aesthetically all things spooky. But I mean, I never was allowed to wear black. It's so funny. My people always say like, oh, did you wear it?
Jill:You were Wednesday Adams. And I said, no, I wasn't allowed to wear black. I had little smock dresses and grosgrim bows, but the second that I could around 12 and I got my first motorcycle jacket for my bat mitzvah, that was it.
Anne:Oh my gosh. I love that. So funny. I wear a lot of black myself, but love Halloween. I remember from my childhood, it was like we were the it house on the street.
Anne:My mom loved it.
Jill:That's me. The Home Depot skeleton shortage is because of my husband. Cause he's that's his love language is August 1 when Sandy and I had a party in Nantucket, October, which was August 1. But August 1 is when Home Depot releases their skeletons and Harry bought my husband got like the eighteen foot ones and we... Our house is TikTok famous.
Jill:Oh my gosh.
Anne:I love it. That's so fun.
Sandi:It is. There's lines around the block like waiting to go past Bill's house. I'm like, what is she giving out there? It must be like, you know,
Jill:regular candy. It's theater candy.
Anne:Oh my gosh. Well, that's the key thing.
Jill:Regular. No, we do the minis. We're not, we don't want to give anyone diabetes. I heard mayor Bloomberg gives like the pallets, like you can cat as big as the best.
Anne:Everybody's looking for his house and they're putting together their map. Right.
Sandi:I also heard Kelly Ripa and her husband Mark, they give out like the big movie theater and they'd like stand on their porch and just throw them out to people.
Jill:Hilarious. Let them eat Snickers. Exactly.
Anne:Oh, that's so perfect. The tiles are so beautiful and everybody will have to go online and take a peek at them. So Sandy, tell us a little bit about the designs.
Sandi:Well, the thought came to me literally playing around the table with Jill and two of her friends, And I'm looking around this amazing house that Jill has. And it is just when you close your eyes and you think of Jill and you think of a townhouse in New York, it is what that picture is next to it in the encyclopedia. It's gorgeously decorated and it's just dripping with personality, a la Jill. And it... There were these pillows I remember seeing on this beautiful couch that she has in her living room.
Sandi:And they're the Gucci snakes. And I was like, wow, that those are really cool. Like, how cool would that be? And my mind works. My Mahjong mind now kind of like infiltrates every thought.
Sandi:So I'm like, that could be a bam. Oh, that could be a dime. And so I really, I said to Jill, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, no one's done a really cool Halloween set. And she's like, I'm in. Let's do it.
Sandi:Let's do it. So she really took the reins on this and has this incredible designer. I'll let Jill tell you a little bit about her. Kelly Lillian, who just, I think, reads Jill's mind and is able to translate the thoughts into actual pictures and art. And she said, we do this, I know exactly who we have to work with.
Sandi:And I'll let Jill take it from there because Kelly just brought her vision to life and we had a great time collaborating on the suits, sets you typically come with eight Jokers. We did 10 because we couldn't pare down the amazing ideas that we had for the Jokers. And they are like the most fun part of the set.
Jill:Loves. They're all different. Yeah. But Kelly, I worked with Kelly on an app called High Note that I did a collection for, and she... Exactly as Sandy said, she, like, reaches into my skull and executes in the way that I would want if I knew how to design.
Jill:But we said, how about the dots are skulls and the bams are snakes and the cracks are like lips with fangs and the jokers were all different. We said like one will be a ghost and a tombstone that says she loved Mahj and all in the back will be a web. And she just did it in such an edgy way where it's not cheesy. The skulls, there are many ways to do a skull and hers are kind of Andy Warhol eyes with metallic patina and she just makes everything cool. And she does all the invitations for my family and my husband's fiftieth and daughter's 20.
Jill:And I just feel like she gets me. So I knew that I would have no awkward back and forth of like, could you redo this? And... Because she just gets it right. So I think when you work with awesome people and you find that partner, you just wanna keep doing it forever.
Anne:I know. I have to ask, what are your favorite tiles?
Jill:I love the Joker. She loved Mahj. It's really my favorite because I just think it's so funny. And when people get it, when you're playing, you always see them smile.
Anne:Oh my gosh. That's so great. And Sandy, do you have one?
Sandi:I love the cracks. Like I love the suit of the cracks. It's very Rocky Horror Picture Show. And I just love that. I feel like listening Jill to you with the Muppets and the motorcycle jacket when you perform at the Olympics, but like, that's my life.
Sandi:I literally grew up on the same program. And I also remember I have an older sister and when Rocky Horror Picture Show came out, I was like obsessed. I was old enough to go, but I was like, oh my god. Like, as soon as I can, I? I'm gonna go.
Sandi:But, anyway It's a Yeah. Other
Jill:Yeah. It's it's the poster and Tim Curry, but I feel like the... Also the one bird bam. Oh. It's a raven clawing on the snake like a crow.
Jill:Awesome.
Anne:Oh my gosh. And I love the snake. I have to tell you. It's a Gucci like snakes. I can't believe how Kelly got that on a tile so well done.
Jill:That's true artist. We had a lot of late night Zooms. She lives in Portland, Oregon, so we had a time difference. And I was just like screaming literally in bed on my phone being like, I'm upset.
Sandi:I remember that. And she called Harry and she's like, oh my god, you have to see this what Kelly did. And it really was amazing to see her bring this to life. And I feel like that's people ask us about the different tile sets that we create and what we have kind of in our pipeline. And we really like to work with artists who have a certain look and feel and work with them to translate that onto this mini canvas.
Sandi:And I think that's what really differentiates our tiles from others. And that's what we did with our Nantucket set that we created. And that's the thing that brought Jill and me together was playing on the Actiles that I'd brought on vacation. So sharing our love of Nantucket.
Anne:It's so funny when you get together to play the game and then you have beautiful tiles, that creates a whole other conversation in and of itself. People get obsessed and then you gotta get everybody to focus. Right? Because they're like... They're in the world of discovery and obsession.
Anne:And I think that's what makes it so fun too. You have to play with something elevated. Speaking of elevated, let's talk a little bit about Jill going to the world championship in Vegas. I think that's pretty incredible.
Sandi:It's gonna be amazing.
Jill:I'm so excited. Well, I'm going because I'm going to Metallica at the sphere. So it's both. So I think in that Venn diagram, I'm like the tiny vagina in the middle. I think I'm the only person, but I'm writing about it for Town and Country, and I'm really excited.
Jill:You can follow along on my Instagram. I'll try and post from the scene, but it's gonna be crazy. I'm really looking forward.
Anne:I mean, we're wishing you the best of luck.
Jill:Thank you. It's so funny how many people were like, is it gonna be people ask dead serious? Is it going to be televised? I was like televised. It's not a sport.
Jill:What are you talking about? No, but it's also totally round robin, so there's no like finals with one table and a thousand people watching. It's just you're moving around the whole time.
Anne:Oh my gosh.
Jill:But it'll be fun and it's a lot of Mahjong. So I have a game. I have a game the day after in New York to debrief And they're like, you might be sick of it by then. I said never, but who knows? Maybe it'll crack me.
Anne:That's great.
Sandi:Wait, can I brag for Jill a little bit? Can you tell Anne about your tournament in Miami?
Jill:Oh yeah. I went, I had to go to a wedding in Miami and my husband love notice how I said had to go. My husband had work like all day Friday before the rehearsal dinner. And I asked my friend who was there like for the winter, if she could get a game together and she goes game, the biggest tournament is in Miami that day. It was like a total coincidence.
Jill:So I quickly enrolled and I get there and I was freaking because there's like hundreds of women lining up and I got a little worried I was in over my head, but I tied for fourth. Oh my. Which is very exciting, except we had just watched the Olympics and we were in bed every day watching the Olympics. And I really... It's so weird because I don't even like sports, but I love the Olympics.
Jill:And every time someone would come in fourth, we're like, my god. That sucks. I'd rather come in thirteenth, like fourth sucks. And then I came in fourth. It's the new gem.
Sandi:That's awesome.
Anne:Ashley, out of all those women, that is amazing.
Sandi:Yeah, it is. It really is.
Jill:It was crazy. Well, tied. I tied, but still it was really. It was really crazy.
Anne:But you think about it. You weren't even like thinking of it going down either. So you walked in cold Turkey, so to speak.
Jill:And boom. I also got was like really lucky that day. I'm it's weird because I don't really believe in like good luck charms and people have like 20 liboo boos dangling in the room for luck or whatever. And I'm just sort of like, but I kept pulling jokers like I I got. Was very lucky.
Jill:At the end of the day, I really think my husband actually asked chat GPT about skill versus luck, it says 60% is skill. That, so once we're all at the same level, if you're going to a tournament like that, it really just comes down to luck.
Anne:Sandy, I think about this game and games in general. And here you're created this beautiful table and which fits into any home. I mean, you don't walk in and see your table and think, oh, there's a game table. You walk in and see a beautiful table. That's what's so great about it because it can fit in any home, any decor, and it is just a beautiful platform for anything.
Anne:And then, oh, by the way, we can play a game on it. But here you are at the center of this revival. How does it feel? I mean, the energy behind it, you've gotta be on fire right now feeling that with your business.
Sandi:Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say we're at the center. I would just say that we... It was just all of these kind of stars aligned in the universe. My mom has been trying to get me to play Mahjong for twenty years and only five years ago was I really open to it.
Sandi:It's like that's an old person's game like my grandma. But but yeah, I mean, she was on something. I mean, and as was my grandmother and all of the other women like really, it's been so much fun. What I love about it is that I can play it with my friends, but I can play it with my mom. Jill and I played with Jill's mom.
Sandi:I mean, it's so nice to be able to gather around, meet new friends. I've met tons of people in the Mahjong community from just playing in different games, being invited to different places. And I love the fact that it is some cross generational. I mean, Jill can speak to playing with her daughters too and my kids. But I think what's really unique about the Mahjong community from a business standpoint is also that it's a lot of women supporting women.
Sandi:It is so much so. And I just... I love that. I love that feelings. A lot of men supporting women too, but it's really women supporting women.
Sandi:And it's also an opportunity with these people, with these women that teach and put on like experiences and travel Mahjong retreats are surging right now. But it's given folks who might've taken a step out of the workforce and are now ready to kind of come back in the opportunity to be entrepreneurs, like micro entrepreneurs who are building these businesses and these communities and just touching people's lives in ways that had this kind of surge not come about, wouldn't have been possible. So I'm just loving it. I feel I'm so grateful to all the incredible women that I've met, including Jill, really, just it's been so great. And teachers, I could mention a handful.
Sandi:That it's just been such a fun community to be a part of and watch it evolve and grow.
Anne:Yeah. So let's have a little bit of fun. Let's kind of shift gears a little bit and just talk about Halloween in general. So let's be silly for a moment. What's your favorite candy?
Anne:Jill, we'll start with you.
Jill:Frozen Kit Kat. Frozen Kit Kat. I love it. The only way to do it. I get the huge things and I am such an asshole.
Jill:I pick out a whole bunch of these little KitKat and then I shove them in the freezer.
Anne:Oh my god. I love it.
Sandi:The variety packs from Costco and you just like pull them out. That's so funny.
Anne:Okay.
Sandi:My dad loved frozen KitKats. I can't believe that you said that. That's so fun. I have two, Tide. I love Reese's peanut butter cups, and I do the same thing when we get the big variety pack.
Sandi:I go in and I take some. And then also York Peppermint patties, the best. Love those.
Anne:Yes. That's it. I love York Peppermint patties. Those are so delightful. Okay.
Anne:So your favorite Halloween costume, and it doesn't always have to be what you wore when you were a child. It could be something that you wore in some adult.
Jill:Well, I have a t shirt that says this is my fucking Halloween costume that I wore once, but I felt like a party pooper. I really every year wear a t shirt that has this insane great white shark coming out of it with blood and guts all over. And I wear that when I open the door for the kids and the little ones are always a little scared, but it's really cute. And then my nephew all take and go no, no, no, no. And like like it's eating his hand off and he's just cackling.
Jill:So I would say that.
Sandi:Oh my god. He's so cute. That's so funny.
Jill:But I was Susie Sue from Susie and the Banshees last year and it was so sick.
Anne:So good.
Sandi:I'd love to see pictures of that. That's awesome. What was it? Who was Harry on the Instagram? Okay.
Sandi:Who was Harry?
Jill:Was he part Billy Idol. We went to an eighties Halloween party.
Sandi:So good. That's fun. That's so good. I have some childhood costumes that I loved. My mom was a school teacher, and so we had a lot of fun like arts and crafts like leading up to Halloween.
Sandi:I think she just wanted to keep me occupied because I was like such a menace and couldn't sit still. So she'd have these like big elaborate projects that I'd work on for costumes. And one was a Rubik's cube again, like back in the day. It was like a huge box that we put construction paper like difference. So that was fun.
Sandi:I also loved being an Oreo cookie. So pillow like front back and then like brown cardboard. And then in college, me and two of my good friends were a twister board. So we wrapped twister like whatever floor mat around us and then we had the spinner and so the big thing was you went in and they spun and they had to play twister on us. It was very
Anne:So funny. What's so funny? I was thinking back at, I'll just join in just to have a little bit.
Sandi:Yeah.
Anne:But I'm dating myself here, but Greece came out, I think, when I was in the seventh grade. And, course, I had brown hair and I wanted to be Sandy. So I got the whole outfit where she had the black leather leggings and off the shoulder, got a blonde wig, and got a friend to be John Travolta and did the whole song at the end.
Sandi:That's awesome.
Anne:That was like my favorite favorite because I I... Did I pull it off? No. But what I got on Sandy for a day, it was so great. So is there a favorite movie you love to watch during this time?
Jill:I do. But Nightmare Before Christmas is my favorite and my little, my kids grew up watching it. Now my little nephew's allowed to watch it and he's just transfixed and he wanted to go as Jack Skellington last year. Oh. And we have an animatronic Jack and Sally outside our house.
Jill:So that sings all the Danny Elfman songs. And it's just so... I think it's the most beautiful movie.
Sandi:Yeah. The soundtrack is amazing.
Jill:It's amazing. Danny Elfman is a genius, and I love it so much. And I think it's coming to Broadway. I don't know. I love Tim Burton.
Jill:All things Tim Burton. He has like a Midas touch for me. It's like a just the perfect aesthetic for everything. So... But that one in particular, and it was so labor intensive, and I just appreciate it.
Anne:Yeah. It was. It actually was a beautiful, beautiful movie. And then Sandy, do you have one?
Sandi:Yeah. I don't like scary movies. Not that was scary. I love that movie. But one that's just like very...
Sandi:Brings back so many great memories is the great pumpkin, Charlie Brown.
Jill:Oh my god. Love.
Sandi:For... I can remember, like, looking at the... Well, I wasn't the TV guide, but like in the newspaper, the... When you knew when the shows were on with like the dates and the times.
Jill:Yeah. And the ABC special. Yes. Yes. Like flying towards you.
Jill:It was like a high that was like childhood drugs.
Sandi:Yeah. And then now because we can stream it like that's just a family favorite for us.
Anne:Oh my gosh. Solo. Yeah. And the soundtrack is so great too. Soundtracks two great soundtracks too besides movies that we just talked about.
Anne:So if you can invite three people to a Halloween party, what a party this would be. Living or dead, who would you invite?
Jill:Oh, living or dead? Price, Vincent Price, Tim Burton, and I think probably Danny Elfman.
Sandi:Oh, that would be so fun. Those are good ones.
Anne:And yours, Sandy?
Sandi:Oh my gosh.
Jill:And Johnny Depp is a plus one.
Sandi:Yes. Love that. That's awesome. That's so good. Okay.
Sandi:Mine are not gonna be as like on point as Jill's, but I think it would be cool to have Anne Boleyn. I don't know. I'm like obsessed with Henry VIII.
Jill:Like folding her own head.
Sandi:Exactly. Like just to talk about the experience. She kinda reminds me of somebody kinda spooky. And then I would... I don't know.
Sandi:I love Queen. So Freddie Mercury just to have them like, my god, what a gift. I know. And then also I'm a big fan of Guns N' Roses. And so he is alive.
Sandi:Maybe Axl Rose.
Anne:Wouldn't that be fun? Oh my God. Love it. Yeah. He would be there.
Anne:So fun. I would invite the three women from Hocus Pocus, Bette Midler, Sarah Jessica Parker, and Kathy Najamy.
Jill:So cute.
Anne:Know, is. We could get Bette to break out and sing a song for us. So that would be amazing. So what a fun, fun episode. And listeners, you just have to go see these beautiful tiles and check out Center in Spring.
Anne:And Joe, we're gonna be rooting you on in Vegas. So exciting. And all of the beautiful things that you do to touch our lives every single day with your talents. So thanks so much, and thanks so much for being on here and celebrating women. So we really appreciate you taking the time for that, but what a lovely, lovely episode and trick or treat for everyone.
Anne:Yeah. Happy Halloween. Thank you so much.
Jill:Thank you. So nice. Thank you. Take care. Bye.
Jill:Thank you.
Anne:Happy Halloween. Thank you for listening to this episode of Classic and Curious. Be sure to follow CenterandSpring on Instagram and check out their fabulously spooky Mahjong tiles at centerandspring.com. We are delighted you joined us today and we would love for you to follow us on Instagram at Classic and Curious Life and on Substack at Classic and Curious. Looking forward to our next time together.
Anne:Ta ta
Jill:for now.