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Specializing in seller financing, Dawn is a visionary real estate professional who gets families into (or out of) homes and investments in a way that empowers and enriches them, as well as the communities in which they live… with or without banks and regardless of market conditions. Dawn is the antidote to America’s addiction to Wall Street’s financial opium. She makes the powerful, non-bank, strategies usually reserved for sophisticated investors accessible to everyday people, making or saving them thousands and instilling hope as she illuminates hidden opportunities. As a seasoned note investor intimate with seller financing and the secondary market for private mortgage notes, she provides mission-critical expertise that is extremely rare in today’s marketplace. Sellers: know what your note will be worth before you create it. "Landlord Liberation", "Buyers: The Seller is Your Bank" and "Note Investing for Newbies" are key gateway books for those wishing to engage with The Realm. Visit www.NoteQueen.com.
But we're gonna go ahead and officially get started. Oh my goodness. It's already three minutes after the hour. Welcome to Property and Paper live. This is Don Riccobaugh with notequeen.com.
Dawn:And can you believe it's 2026 already? I don't know. '25 just went just like that. And I think with this being the year of the fire horse, Chinese year of the fire horse, I think this is gonna be one of those years that just, that just has a lot going on very fast paced. I think by the end of the year, by the time we're having our last property in paper live of 2026, I daresay that all of us are gonna be living in a different world internally and probably externally.
Dawn:So it's gonna be a phenomenal opportunity, if we can stay grounded. And, I think there there's so many things that will probably be difficult, but the opportunity for positioning yourself, creating the life that you want, I think we can probably do in a fraction of the time. Things I think we can do things in a year that might have taken half a lifetime before. I truly believe that. There's just so much shifting and possibility that's available.
Dawn:So that being said, we we started the year off with a very interesting silver move in the silver market, which is very significant in terms of just, well, things are changing. They've always been able to manipulate the price down, and now they aren't or can't. We've got lots of other big activities happening. We've got more and more being disclosed left and right here and there. It's, it's gonna be one for the books, I think, this year.
Dawn:And in terms of the real estate market in fact, when we just I had my note template note appraisal course, I don't know, a couple weeks ago, and a guy on there that buys a lot of notes, a lot of secondary notes, a lot of nonperforming notes. We were talking, and he says, well, in some of the areas that he buys, real estate prices have dropped 30% already from last year. So and then it was interesting. I had a gal reach out to me that, she's been in the investing space, and she says, you know, and she didn't we haven't been in contact in a while, and she goes, you know, Dawn, I think I think you ought to create, like, a circle, a a really this nonbank circle thing. Have you ever thought of that?
Dawn:And I go, yeah. I'm kinda right in the middle of it. I said, why do you why do you say that? And she says, well, everywhere I look, the the nonbank, housing solutions, nonbank Wall Street retirement, solutions, people are looking for these everywhere. And so, basically, that falls right into our owner financing and note investing conversation.
Dawn:With what we know how to do, we can create nonbank solutions. And I'm not saying that banks don't have their place, but they're not absolutely required. And so for those that are wondering if if you're on this call, you probably already know because you read the email, which got you to this call. But if you're listening on YouTube or a podcast, I just created, since I'm the note queen, I decided to create the realm. And then there's a group inside the realm called citizens, so you can become a citizen of the realm.
Dawn:And I've been playing with that on and off for a few years probably, but finally, it's in solid form. And this is gonna be my ground level community, and that that is where the full episodes of these property and paper lives are going to be hosted inside of that. It's completely free to to participate, to join. But, we're only gonna have, I don't know, however long this video in turns out to be. Maybe maybe a ten to fifteen minute video that goes out on on YouTube here.
Dawn:So please come. And if you like what you hear, just come in a little closer, and you can start to really understand this world, the what I call the dance between property and paper where we can create financial solutions solutions just one mom and pop to another. And I was kinda laughing to myself because, you know, this AI thing is a big thing. Okay. AI, it's taking over the world.
Dawn:People are gonna lose their jobs and all this. And then then I just realized, I'm super all about AI this year, except for AI to me means Angel Investor. So this is the year for me of angel investor where I'm really gonna frame what we're doing here in terms of I'm going to find the angel investors in my community who I consider to be the people who have 80% plus equity in their homes, usually, investment properties, landlord properties, and also just people in the community that have money to deploy, and they don't wanna send it off to Wall Street. They like the idea of keeping it in the community. So, basically, I'm on the land for AI, my angel investors, and everything about real estate, owner financing, note investing is kinda consolidating into that sort of theme for me this year.
Dawn:So, I got a book started or a little I think it's gonna be turned into more of a blueprint, actually, but called The Angel Investor Next Door. Just remember that book, the millionaire next door? It's kinda like off of that. So, anyway, this is a phenomenal time to solve problems. When you've got a ton of people that they can't sell in certain neighborhoods, and then you've got people that can't get in, what we're doing is creating a real estate annuity, an alternative to the stock market and bonds and all that for the retiree, and we are getting newer people, younger people into homes without needing bank financing.
Dawn:That doesn't mean they don't have to have a good down payment or they have crappy credit. No. You just have to I don't know. Just like a mom, the kids have to do their chores, and they have to behave, and they have to, you know, qualify for the benefits that they want. So there's a balance to be had in all of that.
Dawn:So, any I'll just gonna open it up. Dave, I haven't seen you on one of these calls for a few times. You just wanna catch us up? I know we were do you if you wanna share what's happening with that note purchase we were kinda you were working on, and I was kind of over your shoulder on?
David:Well, a couple of things. First of all, you need to move your operation to our condo in Saint Louis because our address is King Henry Court.
Dawn:That's so funny.
David:Right. Yeah. In well, let's see. The one we were talking about was I was buying a note through Paperstack, in Houston. And you've helped me with it, and we had it checked out, and everything's fine.
David:I'm I it's just getting through the paper stack system. I'm used to an escrow company. You know? Uh-huh. And they have their own internal system.
David:And so it's just that, you know, it was basically send in your money, and we'll show you all the documents. It was like, no. I'll see the documents, and I'll send you the money, which which I think was more more of a misunderstanding than a, you know, a a, a con job, so to speak. But it's my first it's my first time in that system. But, yeah, I'll go through it and go ahead with a note, thank you for your help with that.
Dawn:Okay. You were so everything worked out. I think the last thing you told me is that you weren't it was a newer note servicing company that I hadn't heard of. Correct.
David:Yeah. It's it's called Moat, m o a t, and they're out of Austin. And, I I reached out to them, but it wasn't at Christmas, New Year's time and never heard back. So I was just about to change, and then bingo, they they came forward. And and, obviously, based on your recommendation, and I agree, keeping the payor paying to the same company is a much smoother transition.
Dawn:Mhmm.
David:So we'll see how it works out. So
Dawn:Yeah. And and I thought, I mean, describe the note because I think, like, people like to hear, what are people really doing? How how do they feel safe buying a note?
David:I I wish I could remember exactly, but it's, somewhere around I think it was around 70 or something. I've got three things going on. That's why I don't remember specifically. But, the question was what was the the true value of the property? And it was put to me at about $2.80, that's the Zillow value.
David:Well, Zillow is a four letter word on steroids. Yeah. And basically, but based on, you know, I, through you, we found a got had a BPO done, and my own, you know, neighborhood research and so on put it at about $1.30, which is still about a 40% loan to value. And and this is a ten year it's a thirty year note already seasoned about ten years.
Dawn:Right. So you got and and I can't remember the down payment. The the guy bought it for, she $1.40 or something?
David:Yeah. I don't I don't remember particulars, but it was a, like, an a normal 20% down.
Dawn:Decent?
David:Yeah. Yeah. Sal you know, salaried people. Mhmm. Non noncitizens.
Dawn:Right.
David:And, you know, with with the track record. And so, then and I think it's about a little over an 11% yield, you know, which which for me Yeah. Go ahead.
Dawn:Yeah. The coupon rate or the face rate of the note, I think, was 10 and a half, wasn't it?
David:Exactly. Yeah. So I didn't get much of a discount, which is fine because, you know, if I can get 10 or 11, I'm happy as a clam.
Dawn:Okay. Yeah. So, basically, thirty year note, seasoned for ten years, and, basically, you know, decent down payment, all of that. I I had thought that the BPO came in better than that. I thought it was it was north of
David:200. Around $2.38, 2 something like that.
Dawn:Oh, you said $1.30 a minute.
Dawn:Oh, no. No. I'm sorry. $2.30 in
Dawn:$2.30. I was
David:like Sorry. Woah. Yeah. No. No.
David:No. No. No. It came it came in fine.
Dawn:Yeah. It was, like, $2.30 or something. So, think of that. Your, what's your investment to value on that? What's what's real quick here.
Dawn:So in terms of security
David:$30.30 per yeah. It's about a 30% in that range.
Dawn:Yeah. 70,000 divided by, value of the property, $2.30. Yeah. You're at a 30% loan to value investment to value, and you've the only, what would you say is if there was gonna be, like, a question mark? If there was any risk, what would you think it would be?
David:I don't see any risk in the property or the note, only the peep anybody's ability to pay. And the thing I like about this because it's seasoned and, there's some room in their monthly payment, you could you could offer to lower their monthly payment and still cover the interest. So I think there's a lot of room to work with a borrower.
Dawn:Right. As long as they're still around.
David:Right? Exactly.
Dawn:Yeah. Because that gets that has, the, deportation has affected a lot of notes. So Right. I'm kinda wondering if the people that originated it are kind of reducing their exposure if they have a huge portfolio. You know?
David:Yeah. That, you know, that I don't know.
Dawn:Yeah. Interesting. I mean, so yeah.
David:So time time will tell.
Dawn:Yeah. But still, even worst case scenario, it's not like you have to hang out forever if you have to repossess the property.
David:Yeah. So that was one I was working on. The second one was another note that I was going to buy through Paperstack, and it was on a piece of land near Placerville. And as I started inquiring more, it was that the guy was borrowing the money to basically close on the property to create the note. He advertised it on paper stack as a performing note
Dawn:Oh gosh.
David:When when the note didn't exist. That being said, it still was gonna be a decent note. And he kept but he kept saying, you know, the guy makes 20 thou 20,000 a month. And I said, fine. Prove it.
David:So I get a I get three months of bank statements, which show all from an LLC, his business bank statements, which are showing his groceries and his gas and everything else on his business bank statements. So I I said, just you know, I how about a tax return? Well, he doesn't file taxes. And I you know? So that that you know, that's a fairly red flag.
David:I mean, it was it was it was negotiated to about a 24% return. And, you know, and and that part, you know, and I was fine with the property and everything. But then I just finally said, I'm not gonna do it. And he bay basically came back to the agent agent guy putting it together, whatever, who came back to me crying that, oh, I'm you're canceling it on my birthday.
Dawn:Oh my gosh.
David:I'm I'm sorry. It's not my problem. So so I I walked from, from what could have been a good 24% note, but certainly could have had its share of problems.
Dawn:Yeah. Did you send him a pacifier? Right. I mean, maybe you know, that's I always love that when, you're supposed to be this professional. When I took back a property or a note well, it was a property.
Dawn:I probably said this do you remember that contract for deed? And and I mainly don't do contract for deeds, but it was in Oregon. And I thought, well, I thought I had about a $6,070,000 dollar spread on there. But that's why you buy at a big discount because by the time I got it back and they were sweet. They just gave it back.
Dawn:They said, we can't afford this anymore. Just take it back. They deeded the property back, and it was super easy. And they were very helpful because it was land, nobody else knew how to the other you know, it was kind of obscure of how you access it, and they were very wonderful. But at the end of the day, just the realities of things, I think I walked away with, I don't know, 25 to 30 instead of 60 to 70.
Dawn:But what what was my point on that? What were we just talking about?
David:About about the spread and the the cost
Dawn:to to get back. Oh, because okay. So I get this property back, and I go, okay. Well, I gotta find a realtor, right, to help me up there and ones that hopefully know something about land. And, I had one that I talked to initially and but he didn't have any background.
Dawn:He he he was in very engaging, and it was interesting. And then I got a referral to somebody who was just new land back words and forwards, and I was so glad I ended up with that person. But when I told the guy, I said, hey. I've decided to like, he he never would get me his listing contract. He was just, like, drag dragging his feet.
Dawn:And so I just said, hey. He goes, well, I'd like to send you that contract. And I said, hey. I've decided to go with someone else. And he he just wrote me this big long email, like, you know, I've been over there for, like, three days and clearing this out, and I've done all this research.
Dawn:I mean, I can't believe and it's like, dude, this is a grown up world. You know? Especially when you're an agent, you know you work. You work hard for free a lot of the time.
Dawn:So so I just I
David:just closed a third one today.
Dawn:Did you?
David:Well, it it, I got a call from a mortgage broker. This lady bought a piece of land up, North of Grass Valley, which is pretty valuable country. And she paid, I think it was $2.79 for it, and she owed and and the seller carried it in eighty thousand first with a one year due date. And the yeah. A big big mistake.
David:And the and the due date came, and the, lender filed an NOD, like, the next day. Put it put it straight into foreclosure. And, the the lady had planned on, you know, selling her home and buying it, but the market has slowed down, so she hasn't been able to sell her home to pay off a lot. So I just jumped in and loaned her loaned her basically 87,000 at at 10% to so she could end her foreclosure. And I I just wrote it as, like, a seven year note, and she can go solve her problem now.
Dawn:Oh, that's fantastic. So that's yeah. California, and you put that just as a private deal. You didn't have a
David:a broker? Well, they it well, it it it got brokered by a mortgage broker. But, yes, private deal.
Dawn:Yeah. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it.
David:Yeah. And, you know, it it's it's 10%, so there's no usury issues. I didn't charge any points, any fees, anything. I let the mortgage broker do that. And
Dawn:Yeah. Fantastic. So there's stuff happening. There's stuff out there. And, you know
David:And that was with that was with, like, one week's notice, just a call saying, can you do this? And I had just been paid off on another note, so the answer was yes.
Dawn:Fantastic. So
David:and I and I keep trying to be retired.
Dawn:First, you have to get tired. Right. Then you can get retired. Right. You know, like fried beans and then refried beans.
David:It's Right.
Dawn:Whole thing. I'm surprised that living in California, you didn't know that. So okay. You know, is there anybody else? I'm gonna look oops.
Dawn:The chat's been going. Oh, yeah. Thanks, Mark, on the knee. Yeah. Hang on for the ride or the fire horse.
Dawn:Did you what was owner occupied? The the one the lot he was just talking about, or was that the Texas deal?
David:Texas was owner occupied.
Dawn:Yeah. That yeah. It it seemed like it was a a, income residential, wasn't it?
David:Nope. Just primary home.
Dawn:Oh, okay. There was something in the files. But I noticed, in that big paper stack file that you got or whoever provided it, they had it mixed in with a different APN
David:as well. Yeah. They right. They had they had some some incorrect documents in there.
Dawn:Yeah. But no big no big deal. So good deal.
David:Well, but it but it is a good reminder to redefine, you know, all the details.
Dawn:You know,
David:I I used to have to train when I you know, back when I had the real estate company, agents you know, I I had to teach them to read a prelim because once in a while, the prelim comes, and it's on the wrong property.
Dawn:Yeah. And Wow.
David:Yeah. So it's all in the paperwork.
Dawn:Yeah. That last one you just did for 87,000 was a vacant lot. Right?
David:Well, it it had a it had a old, you know, an old uninhabitable cabin on it.
Dawn:Okay. So it wasn't her primary residence?
David:No. No. No. No.
Dawn:It's just purpose loan.
David:Some investment property.
Dawn:Right. Right. Right. So that makes a big difference. Would you do a consumer loan?
David:If it was through a broker, and I like the numbers, I guess. Yeah. If it's properly brokered.
Dawn:A lot of people won't even touch that anymore.
David:Yeah. And and isn't there a bill they're gonna put into congress that they're gonna try to, move away to basically get around that?
Dawn:You know what? I don't know. If you find out, let me know.
David:I think I think I can well, keep going, and I'll let you know.
Dawn:Yeah. And I know that, from our class, just updates is I'm gonna I'm probably gonna have to just bend over and and get some NMLS licensing and things. I think it's coming in Nevada. I've gotta look into that. But just you know, it's it's kind of a bummer.
Dawn:But as a small boutique operator, I don't I don't tend to worry as much about things, but but still, it's, unless the regulatory landscape changes dramatically, it's just kind of you gotta just kinda gotta comply. The the bigger your organization gets, you just can't afford to have something weird just take you down, sideswipe you like that. Kanesha is saying she's renewing now. And, Kanesha Kanesha, I don't you and David should connect because I know sometimes you're trying to put deals together. Yeah.
Dawn:And she's an NMLS in California.
Dawn:I may be doing other states. Probably the states where I don't have to take the test and the CEs. You know, they they just want my money and not my life. So, yeah. But California, for sure, I'm doing that one now.
Dawn:Yeah. Good deal. So anyone who, you know, hears this now or later on, I'd love to throw some business at Kenisha. She's been we've been in each other's lives for a while now. Right, girl?
Dawn:Yes. For a quite a while, and I'm very, very grateful. The like I said before, the way that we are kindred is just we have so many things in common, and I'm just very glad that I met you, particularly, one, as a human being and then, two, just in this space. So thank you, guys.
Dawn:Thank you. I mean, having having people that are like minded, is just such a such a gift. It's like the sisterhood or sorry, guys. It's the siblinghood. I don't know.
Dawn:Dave, did you
Dawn:I was gonna tell you. I just e I
David:just for emailed to you that bill that's being proposed.
Dawn:Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate that. It's it's, it's hard to keep up on everything. That's why he kinda takes a village. It really does.
Dawn:So I appreciate that. Alright. Is does anyone else have something going on? We're about halfway into it. And, I just wanna know if anyone has a question, a situation, they wanna share a story.
Dawn:Please feel free to just unmute and jump in if it's not too noisy in the background or send over a a chat. I just had a deal closed yesterday, and I got the money in my bank account today. I was so glad. It it's kind of that it was a an actually rehab flip. I hadn't done one since pre COVID, and I had a learning experience on that project.
Dawn:Because prices kinda doubled, but I loved it. I just really love it. But, man, I'm really glad to have that whiny baby off my off my when when on the money came in, it's like, oh, and this the sweetest little family is in there now. They they have two kids of their own, young young family. They work really hard.
Dawn:They have good jobs, and, they have, besides their two oh, they had one of their own, then they're adopting one, and then they have anywhere from, besides that, three to five foster kids at any given time. So they have a house full. So this this acre this acre out there in Silver Springs was just great for great for them. So I always love it. You know?
Dawn:It it really matters to me. I I guess I don't have to hate anyone, but it's like you just have this feeling when when when the energetics of the house and the property match. Like, you just know they belong together. And then it's not just, like, a financial transaction. It's just it feels so good, and they're so sweet.
Dawn:And she's like, oh, I work with NV Energy and, Lyon County all the time. If you need anything, I'll help you with anything you need. And I'm like, you know what? I'll probably get a pull that one in at some point. Marking saying, yeah, they're pushing the licensing.
Dawn:Oh gosh. You have some very cool meetings in the past with some awesome people. Oh, do you mean in person meetings, Mark? Because I've been doing these for for a bit. Yes.
Dawn:In person meetings. I don't know. Maybe I will. You know, maybe maybe I'll maybe I'll get the courage and the gumption to do that again. I appreciate that, Mark.
Dawn:I do. Yeah. Shoot. You know, those those three years we did in Tahoe were were pretty classic. They they were special.
David:I made some good connections through that.
Dawn:Yeah. You know? Yeah. Okay. I'll I just don't be surprised if I take you up on that, Mark.
Dawn:But, yeah, I have been kinda missing missing that. Yeah. Just might. I might. Thank you so much for engaging with my content.
Dawn:If you'd like to participate live and hear the rest of the replay, please go over and join our free community, citizensoftherealm.com. Hope to see you around the queendom. Take care.