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Finding life after loss, Two Dancing Widows dives into the stories of resilience, hope, and transformation. Hosts Toni and Hettie welcome new guests each week, from widowers and life coaches to those battling severe illness, who share their journeys through struggle and their paths back to joy. This podcast is for anyone navigating grief or simply looking for inspiration to live and love deeply again. Tune in for heartfelt conversations that remind us all that healing, while challenging, is a dance worth stepping into.
Coming up on this episode of Two Dancing Widows.
It's not always about thinking that you're going to resolve your conflicts with grief.
It's not about thinking that you won't have grief if you go somewhere different.
You will, but maybe it's just about changing the you, the inside of you, and how you see it.
You cannot change the circumstances.
Just change is your focus for a little bit.
And change is how you see things maybe.
Yes. And gives you something else to focus on.
Welcome to Two Dancing Widows, the podcast where hosts Tony and Heady explore life after loss
and the strength we find in each other's stories.
In this episode, Flying Away, Tony and Heady talk about that very real urge grief can bring.
The desire to get away, start fresh, change your surroundings, or simply breathe somewhere new.
Whether that means dreaming about another country, re-imagining your home, going off the grid for a day,
or just finding a different way to carry what hurts.
This conversation is honest, thoughtful, and full of heart.
The ladies reflect on what it really means to fly away when grief feels heavy.
And they explore whether a change of place can also bring a change of perspective.
You can hear this episode and all previous episodes at two dancing widows.transistor.fm
where you'll also find links to the show's Facebook page.
So take a listen, share with a friend, and come fly away with Tony and Heady.
No passport required.
Well, hello again, this is Heady and Tony, and we are the two dancing widows.
And we decided to do something a little bit different today.
Of course, we are talking about grief and all of it's different types of grief and all of that.
But do you ever just want to fly away in the midst of grief?
When you have done all that you can do, you can't change anything, you're finding it difficult to wrestle with your feelings or to even talk to or listen to other people,
talk about your loss, and some of them feel the pain as acutely as you, and others just mouth the correct words.
And for you, you just want to fly away.
Well, I have felt that way sometimes and I'm not sure Tony have you ever felt like that?
Absolutely. And I think it comes in not just flying away is getting on the airplane and going someplace different.
Although some people have actually changed countries, states, just to start over again, if you will.
But I think flying away can be many different things. It can be engaging in something you've never done before.
Just anything to change or rearrange your life, I think flying away could be.
Yeah, and I think that if we're going to talk about that today, let's talk realistically about it.
And as you said, there are different ways to do it. Some ways you will actually leave.
Maybe the city, the state, maybe even the country.
But I think you have to ask yourself a few questions before you decide to make that decision.
Like for one, if you're going to make that decision, what exactly are you hoping to experience?
Like are you looking for a slower pace of life?
And if you are, are you also seeking a lower pasta living?
Is it about community and new friendships? Maybe warm weather?
Specific landscapes? Or is it just to see something different, a cultural immersion or just something different?
A yearning to just get away.
I think all of those things are very important and counting people's decisions.
But I look heady at you and I right now.
And right now we're both engaged in our own, if you will, flying away.
You're redecorating your home. Talk to bottom. I'm looking for another home.
And I think that's kind of trying to fly away a little bit right now.
Something in something totally different.
Yes.
I wish I could say that I was actually redecorating from top to bottom.
I said this to myself the other day.
I said, you keep doing the bottom. You never seem to get to the top.
And then I said, well, maybe you only care about what others, you know, others comfort when they visit.
And you don't really care about your own at night because I mean, I bet the same furniture.
I've had for over 50 years in my bedroom. I change the sheets all the time.
And you know, do the laundry. All that stuff up there.
But I haven't actually changed it. I have painted it.
But I have something on the wall that says that two people in love always kiss before saying it night.
And I have not gotten rid of that. I just sort of paint around it.
But I'm thinking this time, aside from redecorating and redesigning all the splitting all the money on that,
I'm thinking about possibly doing a test drive for getting away.
Hmm. What do you mean by that?
You know, like maybe I'll start with an extended stay somewhere.
I want to do that. There's a thing on Facebook.
It's an app or a program. I'm not sure, you know, I'm 74.
But it talks about, do you ever want to live in Europe for a month?
Yeah. That's exactly what I'm thinking about.
And I know I was looking at some things as well.
And it talked about seasonal rentals and expat communities.
It's just where those people would be living that are most like you.
Yes.
But you do want to also have some cultural immersion.
And it's a way to connect with people who are there, who know something about the place
and can communicate with you.
If you choose a country that is not adept and English necessarily
or where many people speak English, but maybe it's not the dominant language in that country.
And that's something to think about because I don't speak another language.
I'm allowed to do it. Let's investigate that.
For a month, I could feel pretty okay with that.
I don't think my children or I don't think your children will allow us to go too long.
I'm not thinking about those little cookie snatchers.
You know, I'm gonna, they're still snatching cookies in there very well.
We just don't want them to snatch our keys.
They might snatch my keys and sell everything in my current house.
You know, I did. I kind of was going down looking at some things
and some things that you want to consider is like daily routines, grocery shop
and healthcare access and social life, I mean, which is the big thing, social life.
Do you want to live in a neighborhood that's really community with children,
that type of neighborhood, or do you want to live in an ultra sleek downtown style
or you know, modern place where there are skyscrapers and there's always something to do.
But also a lot of tourists coming in an out of town.
Well, you know me, I love people so either setting would be fine.
I might like the downtown.
I would just want everything that I needed to be accessible
because I don't think I'd want to drive in another country.
I know, that would be an entirely different thing, having to get a driver's license.
In another country, I mean, as it is, you would have to travel around
most of the time with your passport in tote along with you.
And I guess one thing you might want to consider is, is it affordable?
That's the other thing. If you have ongoing bills here that you have to pay,
like gas insurance, all these sorts of things and you're not interested in, you know,
perhaps putting your house up as a rental or anything like that,
which if you did that, you'd have to of course put some things in storage or lock some doors.
That whole idea of locking doors within your house to have separate spaces that they could not use.
I always concern myself with that because I'm not wanting to break through a door.
But what about somebody very curious that comes in your house and doesn't extend to stay
that decide they want to see what you're, you know, what you have stayed away in those places?
I never really thought about that as an option, but that's actually a good option.
I know what you're saying is kind of scary, but I never thought about an exchange for me going somewhere
that I would rent my place out to someone for that month to cover expenses.
That's actually a pretty good option.
It really isn't actually there are total exchange programs, sort of like what you get with children
or with young people. When they do a student exchange and the student goes and stays with one family
and then their kid comes and stays with you, they have that for actually house exchanges
where say maybe someone who lives in Europe or in Mexico or Canada wants to come and spend two or three months here in the United States
and you want to spend time with their country that you can exchange houses.
That's a great idea. If the match works, you're right.
I haven't looked at it thoroughly to know how that will work.
Because my house would accommodate a couple of kids as well, but in terms of an exchange space, I would need all of that.
So I would just sneak one bedroom in a place where I could entertain.
Should I choose to do that if I meet some friends over there, some place where I could have cocktails or if I could have little.
Bites to eat or we could have coffee and coffee cake or tea and crepes.
It's always a hostess.
It would be a totally different thing. But then you have to think about, I guess the healthcare system,
do you want something that is close to the United States where you can get back here?
Of course, if it's something catastrophic, you have to make sure that the community that you are in has a good healthcare system.
But from what I'm reading and from what I know from my children living abroad, there are some places that their healthcare is even way better than ours and way cheaper in fact.
Even if you're paying on your own, but you also can get special insurance for healthcare when living abroad.
That would really need to be checked out for me.
I know. I'm telling you, after this broken ankle, I want to know where is the nearest hospital that provides excellent care.
Doctors, what kind of things do they fix?
I'm right.
Do they fix your heart? Do they fix your head?
Can they understand me?
That's very important.
Well, some of the places that are on the top list, because we're not the only people doing this or thinking of doing this because we haven't taken those steps yet.
But I was talking to some cousins who said, well, we're building a house with Panama.
And I thought, well, what build when you can just go and stay there?
And they said, no, no, we want to make it pretty permanent.
We're half a year there and half a year here.
And every other year, our kids come down for Christmas.
And we spend Christmas in this place.
So when I started looking at Panama, I saw that it is a huge.
It has one of the largest expat communities located outside the United States.
Well, that's what it's bad is.
But I didn't realize that.
And it's also a very large English-speaking area there.
But also other places that look really good are places like Mexico, because they're not that far.
And they're also living in that place is lower than in Panama and Panama as further.
And Mexico is closer.
And they have large English speaking at back communities as well as rich culture and foods.
And foods that are not too strange to us because we have these relationships with countries that are closer to us.
We have relationships with countries like Mexico and Canada.
Well, we did before a certain person was in place.
We won't talk about that.
Now, we also, Costa Rica is somewhere that a lot of people are traveling to and building homes and staying after a year at least.
But I don't know what we really thought about Costa Rica.
What thought you liked it?
I wasn't thrilled with it.
I thought it was so lush and green.
It is.
The people were so friendly.
We just had such a great time.
Yeah, we did.
But it also was filled with bugs, all kind of bugs.
I mean, you're going to get that in an area where it's really lush like that, where you have a lot of greenery.
And you have a lot of just tropical conditions, because it's not just the lushness.
It's the fact that the ocean is there and all the different bodies of water and vast amounts of greenery there, trees, all different types of animals.
Yes.
We have monkeys in the morning and the paws.
I just remember, okay, okay.
I remember the lizards.
They were the size of the four bigger.
They were.
I mean, they had everything, all different types of species there, and some of them were even edible.
Oh, no.
No.
How do you know when you were eating?
I don't.
The food was good, so it was good.
It was good.
It was okay.
I mean, I think you'd have to look at the possibility of getting a long stay visa, yes.
In some countries, you have to even prove that you have a pension or savings.
You have to prove that you're able to, you know, live on your own and not live off of their economy.
And some people get what's called a digital nomad visa.
Well, what's that?
That's where you can kind of roam around two or three different countries.
It's probably more prominent in a place like Europe where they travel into a country along
this as some of their countries are the size of our states.
Right.
That crest.
A lot of their countries are wastewater than Texas, and they may be the size of Maine or Rhode Island
or something like that.
But yet, and still it's a full country.
You have to sometimes get a residency permit to get, you know, for financial independence,
where you might want to do some book, some banking there.
Okay.
So if you want to have funds transferred to a logo bank so that you can have access,
you'd want to establish a relationship with that bank where you open up an account.
And you have to prove that the funds are coming from because they don't want any trouble with the United States.
They don't want you or somebody you know, some drugs, putting money in your account,
and then you putting it over into a foreign account.
That makes sense.
That makes sense.
Jay and I are following families and couples that have moved to Southeast Asia.
Oh.
And so we're just enjoying that because the living there is so reasonable and the homes and the condos that
they're by would pools and full staphs are just unbelievable.
I told you remember, I told you ahead, well, you know, my cousins that used to live over there.
Yes.
They lived over there for a long time and their kids even went to school over there and all of that.
And they still go back every year to visit now and now that they're back.
And there were people that I worked with and they retired and moved over there.
And I remember one girl telling me, oh, you know, of course I've lost touch with her.
I think I may still have her number if it's the same, when they were emails to say,
but she would always say, you should come and visit me and let me know when you're coming
because I'll put on a staff and I thought, oh, oh, nice is that.
Yes.
You know, she'd hire a cook and a driver.
She said, you don't have to worry about coming from the airport.
I'll have someone come for you.
And, you know, we can just go out and she was telling me about going to the countryside and doing antiquim.
And she was saying how a lot of people don't even value some of the old things that they have,
like even in terms of jewelry and gold.
And this is true also in India,
where you can go and go out to the country.
And this is what a lot of the people that sell those type of things here in our country,
that's one of the things that they do.
So it's appealing.
It's appealing from that damn long.
But I think you do have to look at things like the healthcare system.
I think so, absolutely.
At our age, it's important.
And what about hospitals, accessibility and things like that?
Yes.
But if we're only talking about initially trying it out for a month,
I think that would be a lot of fun.
Well, the problem is that anything can happen, you know, even at a young age and a month,
and certainly at our age and a month.
So that's something that I would advise that if any of our listeners are seriously entertaining the thought,
but even a temporary stay of two months, three months in another country,
that you should really be concerned with that.
And if you're there and something like the pandemic breaks out,
and what if it's not a worldwide pandemic?
Maybe it is, you know, a contagious virus in that particular country,
but it locks the doors to exit.
Exit is no longer easy because they're not going to let you out of the country to share this virus with the world.
Well, let me just tell you, you need to make sure you have the money to stay
if something like that happens because I had relatives that were detained,
I don't know if that's the right word, that's crazy word,
but they could not leave a country because of a storm, a severe storm that crippled the airports in the country,
and they were staying at a very lovely resort,
but they didn't bank on staying there an extra week, two weeks,
and so they had to have the money for that, and they were not able to do that,
so they had to move to a smaller, very undesirable resort to stay.
You mean it's only the resort at the nerve?
Oh, absolutely. They said to them, we're not prepared to pay these prices for that long,
and they said, we're sorry, because if you're here, we have to pay staff.
We have to pay everything that you are going to be using, so you have to pay or you have to leave.
However, here's the difference is that when you're going to lose half the customers that are coming in now,
that's absolutely. I can't get up, but they can't get in.
Yes. So it's not like you won't have this face, and maybe what we could do is
is arrange something where we can stay, and we don't have your food service,
or we pay for each meal that we had in a small portion,
you don't have to do these large buffets or anything like that.
I mean, I don't know what they did to try to negotiate,
but I think I would try that first, especially if you've become a little bit used.
Even in a week, you don't really go so far out of the resort that you feel comfortable with the care of.
They really couldn't go right, because of the storm, the roads were in bad shape,
and everything, even in that country, that's where the storm was,
and so they couldn't really navigate the roads to go anywhere,
but they had to move. They were not kind to them about staying there,
because they each properly employed their staff.
And so they felt like if you're going to use our staff,
if you're going to use our food, if you're going to stay here, you have to pay.
But if the roads are impassable, some of your staff can't go home.
Absolutely. They need to work for free.
But they didn't have attorney, a college there.
They should have called you, and they're younger people.
And so I think as we age, you and I would just fight to the floor with them about it,
and get some kind of agreement that they could work with.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Because I mean, here's the other thing, though, what a bummer.
Especially if you're really in a fly away mood,
if you're major motivation for leaving and trying something different,
is because you really want to get away from someone's stress,
and the strain and the weirdness of just finding yourself in a situation
where one, you either no longer have your loved one,
or one of your loved ones, or your spouse, or even in a situation where maybe you've lost your job.
But a lot of times people get laid off, but they get this huge exit package
to go along with it. And of course, then they're those people who don't get anything,
but they're last check.
And I don't think those people, unless they have said to a ton of mine,
would be looking at that type of extended stay.
So maybe what about if those people want to just get away,
what are some things that they can do that are just closer to home,
and not so remote?
I mean, I'm always thinking of the furthest place.
I'm always thinking of Asia, I'm always thinking of some place on halfway around the world,
some place Vietnam, or some place like that.
But there are places here in the United States, actually,
that I find that are just quite beautiful, and cost-element is cheap.
Very.
You go down to North Carolina, South Carolina.
Yes.
Well, it depends.
It's the lady.
The further you are out in the country, it's cheaper.
Yeah, you can hear right now.
I was saying to my granddaughter the other day,
I'm following a lady, an African-American lady,
who's living off the grid out west,
and how they are chopping their wood,
and they're growing their crops.
And she says, Graham, that's kind of crazy,
what you just said to me, and I'm like, oh no, I'm really there just living off the grid.
And she said, how do you know this lady?
I said, I follow her on Facebook.
She said, that's off the grid.
I thought, oh, okay.
She said so, how off the grid is she?
She's communicating with people on Facebook,
she's showing you pictures.
How many people does she have on Facebook?
I didn't check.
I always look at that.
Because she could be getting paid every time you're on there.
That's true.
Yeah, because maybe that's part of how she's able to live off the grid.
Yes.
Or the other thing is, she does have internet if she has it.
Yes.
Then maybe she's doing work remotely and still getting paid.
So not quite 100% off the grid.
Yeah.
But there are also people I know that I would run into with the coffee shops in Asia,
because of the people who didn't have internet,
but they will come to Starbucks as well.
Yes.
And work there.
Absolutely.
They were totally off the grid.
Right.
From the standpoint of where they lived.
Yeah.
In the community.
No, she does it from her home.
And so you see everything and she takes you through the house and she shows you.
She says, so Graham, she's scamming you because that's not off the grid.
Yeah.
I thought, okay, well, whatever.
It's off the grid for me.
I wouldn't want to live out there.
You know, you and Bomber lived off the grid.
Absolutely.
No, that was off the grid.
That was off the grid.
I don't know if any of our listeners would be interested in...
I don't know.
There were quite a few people, because they have these gatherings.
And there were quite a few people at the gatherings.
And they were all selling different things, making jewelry, selling their vegetables.
Just communicating kind of like a little village that comes together.
And so that...
We kind of want to go back to Neanderthal.
Yes.
Some connection.
You know, we talked about that before.
How human connection is so important.
It is.
It really is.
I mean, it's not something that is manufactured.
People live much better with other people in the community than they do alone.
Even if they don't suffer others well.
Yes.
And then they go, you know, I can wrap that stuff and go.
Because I really don't...
You know, it was so funny.
So I had this guy calling me.
You know, it was like some kind of financial advisor, everyone called him.
So I was talking to a banking institute and they said, you know,
would you like to talk to like a woman, not a woman, but talk to someone who specializes
in women's finances?
Because I was complaining about paying too much in taxes.
And she says, you know, because we could probably do something about that.
And she kept talking and I said, well, I guess it sounds okay.
I don't know.
So she says, me up disappointed.
So this guy, he calls me a couple of times just to make sure that I'm prepared for the...
I don't know.
I was about to have the appointment right.
And I don't know why, but that evening, as they're getting this feeling,
like I don't want to talk to anybody today.
And so we had a nine o'clock appointment in the morning.
I thought, well, maybe I'll feel different tomorrow.
And I woke up the next morning and I was like, I don't really want to talk to anybody.
So this guy calls and he says, how are you today?
And I'm like, oh, I'm fine.
Thank you. How are you?
And he says, I'm fine.
And I'm thinking, I said, how do I tell him I'm not talking to him today?
And he says, well, you know, we have a lot to talk about.
And I think about this.
Are you thinking about that?
And how are you about talking about some of these, you know, personal financial things?
And I said, I'm not feeling that today.
Those are the perfect out.
He said, you're not feeling it.
I said, no, when I talk to a woman, I thought I would feel that way.
But today, I don't.
I don't feel like talking very much at all.
Good for you.
And he said, oh, well, okay.
I'm glad we had a chance to talk.
If you ever change your mind, you got my number.
Thanks for listening this morning.
I'll talk to you later.
Maybe I said, maybe.
And I have a proposal problem.
I said, you're like, yes, I guess.
I want, but I also want to make sure that I stuck with that that I didn't really want to talk to anybody.
I didn't talk to you, but I didn't talk to anybody else.
I was like, I'm not answering the phone.
I talked to anybody.
And so I'm saying all that to say, I kind of took myself off the grid,
but in a way that I was staying at home.
And I think that some of that did have to do with, I think I mentioned to you earlier today,
that all of a sudden, I'm like into this thing where I know I'm facing an anniversary for a loss.
And I'm trying to think, do I make plans around it?
Do I honor the person?
What do I do?
And I'm getting kind of, I don't know, just kind of like not knowing what to do.
And that's when again, I start feeling like, maybe if I just could fly away,
but then I thought, well, if I was somewhere else, maybe I would feel even worse.
So I don't know.
I think I was going to ask if part of this is your flying away.
Is I'm trying to redirect my mind on something that's physical that I have to concentrate on.
And that will redirect my mind from my feelings of grief or anxiety or what's going on with you emotionally.
If I physically, you know how they say sometimes people inflict physical pain upon themselves,
because it takes away the emotional pain.
Oh, wow.
One of my Goddorders told me that's why she would get tattoos.
Whenever emotionally, yeah, emotionally, it was too much for her, she'd get a tattoo.
And that would take away the concentration on the emotional pain,
transfer it to physical pain, which she could deal with.
You think I should get a tattoo?
No, so let's go get a tattoo.
I remember I was thinking about doing it, and I told Brandy that I would.
Oh, remember I told you that.
Yeah, maybe that's why these other parts are so far.
They're the parts of her somehow.
People do.
Yeah, maybe.
I don't want to get one.
I asked my doctor even if it was okay.
And she looked at me really strangely, and she said, and she's younger, probably in her 40s.
And she says, yes, physically, it would not harm you, but why on earth would you want to do that?
I said just because I want to.
Just good reason, just because it's always a good reason.
Just because.
Yeah.
Well, you know what?
And I guess that goes back to you said, we should do that.
So indicating that you would go with me.
Yes.
And that's good because that talks about why or makes me think about why connections are so important.
And so when we're talking about building a community, just getting away,
or even within our own community, doing something different,
it's important.
And in fact, sometimes it's cathartic to talk to someone else and see if you can buddy up and do some things
that might be good, whether it's, you know, doing something together like language classes,
doing some volunteer work together, maybe taking a cooking or an art class together, walking groups,
which, you know, that kind of indicates having to do it a lot.
But I don't know.
Maybe you should.
But again, we, we gone full circle on this topic a little bit.
We haven't given people all of the information like we haven't talked about the tap places to go.
We haven't talked about.
So there's a lot to talk about there.
But I think we've talked enough to get people thinking about maybe just doing something different.
How about this?
How about we decide to do part two on this, flying away part two,
and we actually research some of the top places that people are flying away to?
Good. I think that's excellent.
And I think that once again, people can get into it.
If they need to, it's not always about thinking that you're going to resolve your conflicts with grief.
It's not about thinking that you won't have grief if you go somewhere different.
Right.
But maybe it's just about changing the you, the inside of you, and how you see it.
Yes.
Can I change the circumstances?
Just change is your focus for a little bit.
Yeah.
And changes how you see things maybe and gives you something else to focus on.
So yeah, let's do part two and then we can research for ourselves.
Maybe that perfect place to go for a month.
And we can share that with our other.
The songs you're really putting your dancing shoes.
I am.
I'll write the answer way up here.
Yes. Okay.
Until next time.
Until next time.
In the twilight glow,
Where memories blend,
Two souls reminisce on life's winding been.
Yeah, yeah.
We'll after entails from a time so bold
They share the stories yet untold.
Oh, two dancing widows in the dance of life's embrace.
Finding rhythm after 70 and time in space.
With every step a new story unfolds in the journey.
The beauty of aging is told is told.
Two dancing widows in the dance of life's embrace.
Finding rhythm after all is in time in space.
With every step a new story unfolds in the journey.
The beauty of life is told is told.