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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast. So good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Puba, Senator, Pagoda, Grindr, and Bam Bam, a full house of lizards.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some champagne and Armagnac. Talk about life and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 113th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plenty of views here once a week. We are going to smoke a Cupid cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We review the best and worst cigars and spirits we rated last year. We discuss cigar aficionados recently announced cigar of the year and we raise a glass to 2024 all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy as we pair both Dom Perignon vintage 2013 champagne and 25 year aged DeWard Armagnac with the Partagas 898.[00:01:00]
A Cuban Lonsdale tonight on the pod from Partagas. It's called the 898. It's a 43 ring gauge cigar by six and three quarters inches long. And boys, I don't know if there's a cigar that we have anticipated as much. As the Partagus 898 on this podcast. Exactly right. This is a very, very special Lonsdale out of Cuba.
Uh, regular production, but hard to find. And, uh, very, very exciting tonight.
**Bam Bam:** Hard to find, not mentioned very
**Gizmo:** often either. Yeah, only, you know, this is really a stick for people in the know. Yeah. It's not rolled often either. That's true. You know, I think what, once or twice a year they roll this. Yeah, and I don't think they rolled any, at least I haven't seen any, I don't know if they rolled any boxes in 2022.
They have had some come up in 2023, but we're smoking MTS September 20. So these are just over four years old tonight. Right. Very, very exciting. And, uh, let's cut this thing, boys. See, we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. [00:02:00] And then I know Senator has something very special for us, which is exciting.
Just a tight bit of resistance on mine.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. And, uh, you know, quintessential Cuban. Mm hmm. Nice dry fruit.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, this cigar is just classic Partagas DNA through and through. You know, so my expectation tonight is this is gonna be Some of the best of part of this is you know that we've done on the podcast. Absolutely.
I'm a bit tight.
**Poobah:** Yeah, mine was tight I had a poke it. Yeah, I'm just looking at the outside the wrapper too. There's a little I've got a major vein poppet
**Gizmo:** Senator
**Senator:** what you have for us? All right. Well it is New Year's so I think We need to start with some champagne a little palate cleanser before we dive in on the cigar my
**Gizmo:** man [00:03:00] He's you know, this senator is very smart.
Uh, yeah, very intelligent this guy. We love him. Well
**Senator:** For you have for the occasion if you really want to go hard for New Year's There's only one bottle that it's gonna come to mind a little Dom Perignon for us. My man And what is the vintage? 2013 vintage. Wow.
**Gizmo:** Ooh. Very exciting. Very special. That's 10 years of age.
Oh yeah. So, you know, we don't see the Sabre out, and I know we've done, we did another bottle recently of Paul Roger that we didn't Sabre, so why are we not Sabring? This wonderful bottle of, uh, champagne. Well, very
**Senator:** easy. At 2. 50 a bottle, we don't want to lose a drop of this on the floor.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, we'll lose about a quarter of it.
This is all going to be consumed. It's time to do the pop. Here we go. Oh! Very exciting. Oh, yeah. So while Senator starts pouring that, can you guys believe That this is our third New Year together. No. It's crazy. I can't believe it. I can't believe that either. It's, it's just amazing.
**Bam Bam:** I can't believe I still like you guys.
[00:04:00] Hahaha. Well, what's not to like?
**Gizmo:** Hahaha. So, Senator is very diligently pouring the expensive Dom Perignon champagne. Oh, yeah. This is very, very exciting. Garcon. Garcon has returned. These glasses. The eighth member of the podcast, Garcon. Be generous. This is very exciting. So we were debating between a few bottles and uh, Senator picked up the Dom Perignon, which is actually, we've had a few listeners request this, who like to smoke it on special occasion or drink it on special occasions with their, you know, fancy cigars, special occasion cigars.
Yeah. So this is a great one. It's
**Rooster:** amazing how good a champagne goes with a
**Gizmo:** cigar. I mean, you guys absolutely love this pairing.
**Bam Bam:** It's absolutely,
**Gizmo:** it's refreshing. With certain cigars, it's just
**Bam Bam:** perfect. It's got a great cleansing quality to it. I think it's
**Poobah:** great with. Almost all. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And especially with a Cuban tonight, I think it's going to be, oh yeah, really, really special.
For sure.
**Poobah:** For sure. [00:05:00]
**Gizmo:** The,
**Grinder:** uh,
**Bam Bam:** cold draw on this is, it's something special.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's really, really nice. And I really like, I really like on these that they're not wide open, that they have that classical on steel, just a bit of resistance.
**Bam Bam:** And it's got a nice, rugged, handsome wrapper. Yeah. You know,
**Grinder:** rustic really well.
**Bam Bam:** Rustic. Rustic. Really well rolled. Yeah. And I think people, when, you know, a novice cigar smoker sees the cigar, they may underestimate it not knowing what it is. But I, I think this is a, it's a, it's, for me, this is a category of a celebratory
**Poobah:** cigar. Well, I, I don't think any, yeah, no doubt about it. I don't think anyone underestimates it at all.
If they don't know it. If they don't know it, yeah. If they don't know it, then they have no business estimating, you know, it's like this, this is a cigar that. Um, it's very limited in its production and, um, And it's revered.
**Grinder:** That expression, if you know, you know.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. That's what this cigar is. Right. If you know, you know.
This, this is, you know, I remember when we were first really starting to chase cigars and chase some [00:06:00] special stuff. This was, you know, and still is a unicorn. Like I just, I don't reach for these. No. All right, Senator. It's time. Yes. Cheers,
**Grinder:** boys. Happy New Year. Cheers. Happy New Year.
**Gizmo:** Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
Cheers. Happy New Year to the listeners out there who've spent another wonderful year with us. We're so happy to be with you. Cheers, boys. Cheers, man. Happy New Year. Here we go. Dom Perignon. Cheers, Puba. Cheers. Cheers, boys. Oh, wow. That is wonderful. That is delicious. This water is delicious.
**Poobah:** Ah! Ah, it's so good.
It is good. That's great.
**Senator:** The finish is the best part. I agree. It's like a creamy, silky finish.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, totally. So smooth. 100%.
**Poobah:** Where's the fucking caviar?
**Senator:** That's a great question. I actually really fucked up. That's for the after party. I have a fridge full of caviar right now I actually should have brought.
Well,
**Gizmo:** we'll go to your place after that's true. We
**Senator:** can how much cavity you have?
**Grinder:** How many of those eight ounce things did you
**Senator:** get? No, no. So the best way to do this, I know he gets it in bulk. This guy. Yeah, but I [00:07:00] also my my way of doing it. I buy the the one ounce tins because it's just easier. There's no pressure to finish it that way.
So like You're entertaining a bunch of people, so you're going to just dive into a big tin. But for me, I never know kind of the occasion, so I like to just get like a ton of the one ounce ones. And that way, if it's just like, oh, me and someone else, like throw out an ounce. If it's a big group, I have a special, um, caviar dish, which as you get deeper into this.
You have to get this. So it's basically, if you'd imagine like a little fish bowl at the bottom, you put crushed ice. So you'll want to get like a bag that you can put like ice in with like a mallet and crush it like really fine. Uh, put the crushed ice in there. And then there's like this, um, cone glass cone that sits.
Inside of the like fish bowl, basically you put the caviar in there and it keeps it cold the entire time when you're serving in Volume, so I just like pile on a bunch of caviar in there and everybody can eat and enjoy You want to know a
**Poobah:** trick for the crushed ice to make your job a lot easier? Oh, I would love one.[00:08:00]
Okay The aesthetic of where you get it Is a polar opposite to what you're doing quick, quick check. No Chick fil a. Oh, Chick fil a. Yeah. They have good. So, so you get a Chick fil a, they have the best, it's pellet ice. So if you wanted to make crushed ice, it would take very little work. If you wanted to crush it, you go to Chick fil a and you go, I'd like, I'd like a couple of pounds of ice.
They go, no problem. And they sell ice at a Chick fil A. Chick fil A, that's a
**Senator:** great tip. That's a great tip. I've heard that trick before. I mean, doing it yourself with like regular size cubes. It takes so much work. I mean, it sounds like I'm remodeling my kitchen when I'm just like banging away on this thing.
It's awful. No, it's pellet.
**Poobah:** It's pellet ice. So all you have to do is just gently like break it up and
**Gizmo:** you're right there. I wonder what Popeye's has regular ice, regular ice, by
**Poobah:** the way, I know people who like have parties and stuff and they'll go and they'll get the Chick fil a ice because it's kids love it.[00:09:00]
Adults too.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, it's cigar time, please. Let's light this thing. The Partigas 898 from Cuba. Again, it's a 43 ring gauge Lonsdale by six and three quarters inches long. The factory name of this cigar and all of the Lonsdales of the same size in the Cuban portfolio. It's called the Dahlias.
Dahlias.
**Bam Bam:** So last we bought these boxes, if I remember correctly, the box was 950. Change. Yeah, right by 917 at the
**Gizmo:** time. Exactly. And that was, that was quite some time ago, about two years ago. So I think now they're probably closer to 1100 or 1200 for the box. You think? They were cheaper than that. We're cheaper than that.
When I, when I, no, he's saying the last purchase. Yeah. We purchased years ago for about 500. Yeah, 500, 600. In the last year, they were, I paid 9. They were 9.
**Bam Bam:** Then they went up from there. Honestly, I'd pay the 1200 and if I can find another box, I [00:10:00] would.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Wow. This is so good. This is amazing. Wow. What a great, what a great
**Poobah:** start here.
Now is everyone smoking a 2020? I know Senator and I have the same box code cause we ordered a couple of boxes at the same time. I mean, I've only had, I had one of these, I think with a couple of people at the lounge. Maybe we smoked three or four of them and then that was it. And then maybe I tried one more and we bought two boxes at the time.
This is like three years ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long time ago. Four years ago. I mean, I don't know how long ago it was, but it was a while
**Bam Bam:** ago. We all have similar box codes and identical
**Gizmo:** year, 2020. Yeah. They're all late 20. Most of them are MTS box code, which is a provincial factory. And that's what we have.
So they like, you know, like Rooster said earlier, they really only make these once or twice a year, very specific factories. They come out of the same factory each time. Um, and they're hard to find, you know, here we are
**Senator:** tonight. You know, it's funny though. There's a huge variation in the wrappers on eight, nine, eight.
Like, I have a box of 8 9 8's [00:11:00] that's so dark it looks like a Maduro and then like others that are light like this one I picked out. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** This one's kind of like a Rosado. It's kind of got a red, reddish hue. Kind of like a Lusitania like Rob Ila was talking about. It has a little bit of that reddish type hue to it, but.
So what are you guys getting on the, uh, on the light? It's an incredible
**Bam Bam:** cigar right now. I mean, it's, I'm getting a lot of dry fruit.
**Gizmo:** Get
**Rooster:** some baking spice, kind of like, bready, uh, earthy. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I'm
**Senator:** glad you said bready. Sourdough. Mm hmm. Because that's exactly the kind of note that pairs amazingly with champagne.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I'm getting a little leather too. Yeah. Kind of like a Sir Winston type of leather.
**Bam Bam:** Bread and biscuit. I think that's good. I got like a,
**Grinder:** a,
**Senator:** yeah, a buttery sweetness, you know, off the charts.
**Poobah:** And the amazing thing is that I remember, so for the listener, you buy a box of cigars, you lay it down for four years and you come back to it.
Like I remember smoking from this exact box and us being like, wow, this needs so much more time. And now we're revisiting it [00:12:00] and it's just so much different. Incredible.
**Rooster:** I have a, I have a box. I think it's got a TLE box code. I'm not wrong.
**Gizmo:** I've, I've seen those. Yeah. TLE. TLE, MTS. Yep. Older. Yeah.
**Rooster:** It's so
**Poobah:** good.
It is good. My draw is tight.
**Gizmo:** Mine's tighter as well. Yeah. Mine's tight. I'm still getting, I'm still getting good draw though and good combustion. Yeah. And the flavor is just so robust. It's off the charts. And with the champagne we're having, this is just a wonderful start to the evening. So boys, the Partigas 898, as we know, comes in a fantastic presentation.
Comes in a varnished box of 25. That's where the name 898 comes from. It's a row of eight on the bottom, a row of nine above that, and then a row of eight above that, totaling 25, and that varnish box flips open with a clasp, and it's such a beautiful presentation, and the aroma, when I opened this box today, to pull these cigars, is just, it's intoxicating.
Yeah, yeah.
**Poobah:** That's the first thing I did, I pulled the box out and I smelled it, [00:13:00] and I was like, I haven't opened it in years.
**Gizmo:** Smells great,
**Bam Bam:** yeah. I was
**Grinder:** admiring the aroma very,
**Gizmo:** very quickly. The one thing that frustrates me about the varnish boxes though, and, and actually Pagoda and I were talking about this today is that there's no date code stamped on the varnish box and not even inside, not on the bottom.
It's on the outer cardboard box, right? Which a lot of smokers, you know, erroneously throw in the garbage when they get it. And unfortunately that's really the only place that you have the box code on the cigars. And that's where the factories, you know, with the transit seal. The serial number seal, all of that, it's all on the outer box and the varnish box is just presented with the cigars.
**Senator:** There are so many reasons that this is stupid that they do that. I mean, number one, how are you to ensure that if you're buying a box, right, that it's actually the box that you're, someone's claiming that they're selling. There's no way to verify that. You can literally take that outer cardboard box that says it's 2020 on the bottom.
Throw a 2023 varnish box inside of it and you'd have [00:14:00] no clue. And you know, any otherwise, so don't give people ideas. I'm sure it's happened. I mean, that's, that's what's sad. Like that's a problem. And just, I don't like the presentation of the cardboard boxes in my town. Like I like the varnish box. Like what's the point of varnishing it and making it look nice.
If you're not going to be able to display it in your tower. So that's exactly right. I just wish, how hard is it to stamp the date and the box code on there? I just wish they would start doing that.
**Rooster:** I think, um, like Gloria Cabana MDOs also do that. If I'm not wrong,
they
**Gizmo:** do put it on the bottom or they don't.
I mean, it's just, it's on the cardboard box. Actually, I think it's, sir. Winston does have a stamp on the bottom. I don't think the bottom of the sir. Winston boxes is varnished. Yeah. There's a code.
**Poobah:** Yes. It's unvarnished the bottom of that box. Yes. And the, and the other part of the box. is
**Gizmo:** varnished. The whole rest of it's varnished, yeah.
With the, with the, with the specific clasp on that. So boys, this is really fantastic. Leathery, sour dough, baking spice, just the best of Cuban [00:15:00] tobacco. Earthy and woody. It's special, special.
**Grinder:** This is the way a cigar is meant to be
**Gizmo:** enjoyed. I get some, like, mushroom kind
**Rooster:** of thing. It
**Gizmo:** smells like mushrooms a little
**Poobah:** bit.
The aroma?
**Gizmo:** Maybe the earthiness.
**Senator:** It's so good. I get it. I can
**Gizmo:** get that. Right? Yeah. And you know what I love about this cigar as well? And it's very similar to the Sir Winston. For how special these cigars are, how, how rare they are. It has a very simple classic Partigas band on it. There's no second, third band.
Yeah. It's very understated. It's very understated. Yeah. And it just, I love the presentation. It's just, you know, you get what you get with these and what you get is just
**Senator:** fantastic. Understated but an elegant band.
**Gizmo:** Very elegant. Very elegant.
**Bam Bam:** This is only my fourth one of these ever.
**Senator:** Well, we know you don't
**Gizmo:** like them that much. Yeah, that's right. We do know that. The first time Bam smoked these, he didn't love them. Poova,
**Bam Bam:** turn your head. Don't listen to this. Okay? Don't listen [00:16:00] to this. I think,
**Pagoda:** what was the first time you tried Ed Rooster's deck?
That's right. That's the one? All right. Yeah. That was the first time I tried it as well. And thank you, Rooster, for introducing. Yeah. Oh yeah. Also, beautiful, beautiful. That was a beautiful evening. Great cigar. Oh yeah. And, uh, so, uh, uh. Do we want to elaborate on
**Gizmo:** that story? Yeah, I'd love to tell that story. I
**Bam Bam:** love how Senator's eye just glanced right over.
I know, I know. Go ahead. I'll let you enjoy. Go ahead. I'm not the one
**Senator:** telling the story. I'm just enjoying this.
**Gizmo:** So we're at Rooster's house. And Rooster is so generous, you know, when he has us over. And I think it was like an early Like an early fall type of night. Like it wasn't hot, hot. Um, and we started in the afternoon and of course, Rooster being as generous as he is.
He was extraordinarily generous that night. He just pulled out some incredible boxes and put them on the table. Cause it wasn't just this and it was a lot of different stuff. I think there was some little Gory Kubana age stuff. Vegas, Robania, classical classical. Yeah. And Rass. And Rass. There was a Rass there.
I wish I didn't do that. [00:17:00] And Bam, uh, smoked the Partigas 898 and, uh, was not impressed. I had, so
**Senator:** I'll, his words were, I'll be honest, I don't love it, but it's good.
**Bam Bam:** It's good. So I'll, let me map it out. So I had this first and then I had the, wrote the Vegas Urbana Classical 2011.
**Senator:** Right. No, no, he had the O1 that night.
Was
**Gizmo:** that the O1? The O1.
**Bam Bam:** Personally, I was here for that. You may have been. I would edge that over this.
**Gizmo:** It's, it's different. Edge it. It's different.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. It's, it's, uh, yeah. Wait, the O1
**Senator:** means the O1. Yeah, not the 11, so it's different smoking.
**Bam Bam:** And, and that's where my position was, really.
**Pagoda:** No, not really, because I think your, your, your actual position was based on RAS.
That's true. And the comparison was with RAS, and you said you would prefer RAS. On any given day than the 898. I think
**Bam Bam:** you had too much to drink that night. No, I didn't. There are a few things I can't remember. Because there are multiple witnesses. We're entering the world of delusion
**Gizmo:** now. We [00:18:00] like to
**Rooster:** live there.
I think that 898 that evening was a 2008 box, wasn't it? It wasn't an aged
**Gizmo:** one? I think so.
**Senator:** It might have been. I think so.
**Bam Bam:** That's not aged in your criteria. No, it
**Gizmo:** is. I'm saying
**Rooster:** like, it was like what we're smoking now. It's a 18
**Gizmo:** and 2020 box. So that was a two. So that 2008 box. I mean,
**Senator:** I have to say though, Pagoda is right about the rest because we left bewildered how you could even compare it to a rest.
**Bam Bam:** And I would never do that. No, you did. Well, for the list. Come on, come on guys. Extraordinarily original way to go guys.
**Gizmo:** It's all, it's all good. I'm glad we had a great evening. It was great. So boys, what's interesting about the 898, the varnished 898, as we're smoking tonight, this came out in the 1970s. And prior to this, there was an unvarnished 898 that came out pre revolution, which was a little different.
It was 42 ring gauge by six and an eighth inch. And they discontinued that. When they brought this one in, in the 1970s, and this has been the case ever since, but I've never even [00:19:00] seen an unvarnished box of eight, nine, eight from prior to the 1970s. But apparently they're out there and I've seen some, I've seen some guys smoking the cigars and I guess it's a totally different blend.
Certainly a totally different size, but then they did the varnish boxes in like the mid to late 1980s is mid Ronnie says. And, uh, what's interesting, I was pulling, I pulled up a, I snapped a shot of his book, the, uh, Encyclopedia Post Revolution Havana Cigars, and this is what Min Ranee says about the cigar.
He says, this cigar used to be quite famous for its very robust tobacco tastes and certain earthy peppery flavors. More recent production, and he's talking about the early 2000s, is significantly milder. Strengthened flavors will nonetheless continue to amplify slowly. With the fully varnished box with age.
And I do think there is a merit to storing these cigars in that varnished box. I, there is something about time, like Rooster was saying, he has 08s. I have some older ones and man, these really develop in the way that maybe Sir [00:20:00] Winston is similar, maybe an Esplendido in those varnished cedar boxes. It really, I think, makes a difference.
Yeah,
**Poobah:** it must. I don't disagree. I just wish mine, I don't know what anyone else, I'm looking around the room and everyone's kind of like having the puffet twice. I wish I could just, I wish I could kiss it and have it just kind of combust, but it's not doing that and I'm not getting, I feel like I'm just not getting enough smoke out of it.
Could be your
**Bam Bam:** draw, right?
**Senator:** Same here, yeah. I mean, I will say, I looked at a number of mine. In the, in the varnish box. And I could see some were very tightly rolled and going to probably have combustion issues. So I did the best I could to pick one out that would probably have the least resistance. But even this there, it's a, it's a snug draw.
It's not.
**Rooster:** Yeah. Puba, why don't you put that down? I have another one here.
**Poobah:** You're welcome to it. I, I, I, no, I, I, I mean,
**Gizmo:** have it Well, it's, you know, it's a special episode. We'll put it down. If it's tight, it's tight. Mean, I don't think it
**Senator:** wouldn't be the first cigar you put down . [00:21:00]
**Poobah:** Well, I don't know if anyone else is experiencing
**Gizmo:** this.
I'm very happy with, I'm definitely experiencing it.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. It's
**Bam Bam:** so pagoda. Your jaws tight or is it
**Pagoda:** smooth? So it's, it's, it's really, really tight over here. I think it's, uh, so I'm just pressing it a little bit on this side. Where? By the band? Yeah, by the band. It's really, really, yeah. Let me ask
**Grinder:** you this. So you're talking about pre embargo.
Mm hmm. Have you ever, is there like, are
**Senator:** there,
**Gizmo:** do they exist still? Yeah, actually, I actually got a gift the other day of a Partagus from the 1930s. I haven't smoked it, I just got it for Christmas, you know, a couple weeks ago. Holy shit. Excuse me? What's happening here? I just got it. I just got one as a gift.
This is, he's announcing it right now. 1930s what? 1930s Partagus.
**Bam Bam:** Holy smokes. Yeah,
**Grinder:** literally holy smokes. That is amazing. So, let me ask you this. Are you gonna smoke that? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And have you heard any reviews of like pre embargo cigars?
**Gizmo:** A lot of folks, you know, the problem with pre embargo cigars are just super aged cigars or pre rev, it's a different pre revolution, pre revolution.
Yeah. You know, [00:22:00] really the issue you have is that you don't know how they've been stored for 80 years, a hundred years, whatever it might be. You know, it's like, you just don't know the provenance. Like you don't know the journey those cigars have gone on. So. Um, you know, you have to just have to cross your fingers.
Thankfully I got it as a gift, but you know, I wouldn't spend money
**Bam Bam:** on. So I don't know anyone that's ever had a pre embarger cigar. Don't know what they're like. Haven't heard any tasting notes, anything. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So when I smoked that, I'll let you guys know. Do we know anyone that has, you do,
**Poobah:** I do, I have a friend who had a.
Pre embargo up in, uh, the French Laundry. Ah, in California. And what was it like? Um, I don't think he had the palate to really appreciate.
**Gizmo:** So Poobah's lighting another cigar. Talking about
**Pagoda:** pre embargo cigars, actually, uh, I was speaking to, uh, one of my clients, in fact, uh, Russo, you met him. And he was in London, and he went to quite a few different lounges.
And I think he was at Sorter Lounge? Yeah, Sorter. [00:23:00] And he says a lot of these lounges will have really old cigars, including pre embargo cigars for sale, which run into, you know, a few hundred pounds, up to a thousand pounds, and he was in one of those moods, he said he was trying a lot of really old cigars Expensive sticks, uh, for a change.
**Gizmo:** And he says he was a lot of Davidoff. Yeah. Davidoff of London, the Sahakians have a, probably one of the most extensive collections of, of cigars in the world. And they also offer very similar things. They'll crack a box and sell them for a high premium. So folks are able to try those. I
**Poobah:** think, I think the person that I know that had it was just like the price was way out of line with what the experience was.
And also, yeah, I think with. When it's a really old cigar and it was old, old, it's just, it's all, it's weird. I mean, they look weird. They're like the rappers it's, it's so old that it's, I think it's sometimes [00:24:00] they, that doesn't mean it's necessarily better when it's super old. I mean, they'll, they'll peak. I mean, just cause it's older, it can peak and then flatline.
So
**Grinder:** what was
**Gizmo:** the appearance like? Of the cigar. Yeah. It looks fantastic. Yeah. Wow. It looks like it was really well kept. I think he got it from, uh, uh, a cigar store that's been around for a long time. He was working at. I think he found some stuff in there, in the back of their storage room. And you know, I'm very kind of, of him to send me one.
You should have it here at our club. I'll let you know how it is. No, no, with us around split it, split it
**Bam Bam:** seven ways. I'll just watch you. Yeah. I'll just
**Poobah:** watch you pass it around. I gotta say I'm really rooster. Thank you. This is like a completely from jump. Mine was just so tight. I had the, before we came on, I ran a perfect draw through cause I, I just cut it cause it felt a little tight.
And then, but this is so much, this is completely different.
**Gizmo:** So this is the ninth Partagas cigar we've done on the podcast. We have done quite, quite [00:25:00] a number of, I guess, the cigars that we smoke on a regular basis. This one is, aside from the Lusitania, really the only other one that's not in its own series.
This is kind of in the classic line of Partagas cigars. Certainly the, the letter series kind of stands alone. The Maduro series stands alone. I guess maybe the Calabria kind of has its own thing. I think it's, you know, this is kind of in that classic line with the Lusitania, the part of his short, uh, and, and, and the Lonsdale here.
And how often
**Bam Bam:** are they making the Lucy? Is it as rare
**Gizmo:** as the Lucy? No, the more often than that, you can get a Lucy box. I would
**Bam Bam:** consider this an outlier and the entire.
**Gizmo:** catalog. Yeah, I think the flavor profile is a little different. It is, you know, than, than the double Corona. Totally.
**Poobah:** I actually think that you get notes in a part of a short that are very similar to this.
I think he's right.
**Gizmo:** I agree. Yeah. And I think the Lucy's a much more mild cigar. Yeah, I agree. You know, but that's a pretty good call. Yeah. Shorts. I love part of it. Yeah. And we, the one I think we had, we did that on episode 16. It wasn't [00:26:00] great. Um, it was like, I think we gave it an eight or something like that.
It wasn't pretty good. That's pretty good.
**Poobah:** What a difference, right? It's my, what a difference. I couldn't smoke the other one. I couldn't smoke it. You saw me struggle. No, no. I was looking around and all I see is smoke coming off the foot. Just like mine
**Gizmo:** was. Puba, can you kiss that one now, or do you still have to?
You have to pull a
**Poobah:** little, but it's exponentially better.
**Gizmo:** I love it.
**Rooster:** And I like the draw when there's a little, just a tad resistance, not like completely
**Gizmo:** open. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Just right. When it's snug, it's nice. When it's tight, it's tough. It,
**Grinder:** I'm getting so much more smoke right now. It's amazing. The, uh, I've, I'm only retro hailing right now.
It is so delicious. This is like Christmas cookies. Right now, you know, it's like, it's so it's, I feel like, do you know those Dutch chocolate cookies? They're like, and they have like the sugar all over it, you know, that's what it tastes like right now. It's so
**Gizmo:** delicious. The, the predominant notes for me are leather, [00:27:00] sourdough, and like a kind of a dried fruit kind of rounding it all out.
Yup. It's
**Poobah:** still tight. I mean, it's still for me tighter than I'd like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know, it's just doesn't give you the smoke output that you, I want more smoke in my mouth. You know what I mean? Costco's when you smoke this, like a similar size, it's just like, it's like effortless and it just combusts like, so those, that's my really only issue, it's not the flavor, you know what I mean?
I don't mind fighting
**Bam Bam:** a cigar from time to time if it's snug. If it's tight, then you gotta do the perfect draw. And it's
**Gizmo:** awful. Well, I think Lonsdale iss in this ola, you know, just like a Lan. Yeah. You're, you're, you're gonna have a significant per, you know Mm-Hmm. Amount of, you know, percentage wise Yeah.
That are gonna have a tighter draw. Yep. Just by the size of the, you know, the ola look how, look how beautiful
the
**Bam Bam:** As is too.
**Gizmo:** The bright white problem with the Cuban
**Rooster:** cigars. The wrapper is so thin. Yeah. And the
**Gizmo:** cigarette, the perfect draw. It [00:28:00] expands. Blow it up. Yeah. So careful with that. That's
**Poobah:** true. Oh, you're right.
You move something around inside. It'll just like,
**Gizmo:** shoot out the side. Right through the end. It's
**Poobah:** a, it's a quandary.
**Gizmo:** So Senator, what do we know about our First pairing tonight, the Dom Perignon. So,
**Senator:** it's got a long but somewhat complicated history in the sense that it was named, uh, after, uh, Benedictine monk, Dom Pierre Perignon, uh, who arrived in the area where they basically were making most of their champagne, uh, hot billers.
I'm not sure how to say that. In 1668. Wow. So there's some history there, but the actual brand itself, when they started selling and bottling Dom Pérignon champagne, wasn't until 1936. And what's actually interesting. I didn't realize that there was. Kind of this incestuous relationship with a lot of these big champagne houses.
So Dom Perignon is owned by Moet who owns a [00:29:00] ton of stuff. But what's crazy is that the, the first vintage that they produced when the brand launched in 1936 was from wine. The vintage was 1921, so it had some significant age. Fifteen years. Yeah, and they only do age stuff, right? There's no, um, vintage bottles.
There's no non vintage Dom Pérignon and clearly ever in their history, which is amazing. There's a little bit of debate because Cristal, which is very much viewed as a direct competitor, Uh, their first cuvee that they put out was in 1876, but it wasn't commercially available. They actually didn't sell it.
So Dom Perignon claims to have the first commercially available brute prestige cuvee, period. And then Cristal, sure, they did it before them, but they never actually made it commercially available and actually marketed and sold it. So the crazy thing is that prior to 1927, the name Dom Perignon was owned by Mercier Company.
And, uh, I don't know. And was a gift to Moet when Francine Durant Mercier married Paul Chandon, which Chandon's another big name in, in like sparkling [00:30:00] wine. Um, so that gift is what basically allowed Moet to start marketing Dom Perignon Champagne, which is crazy. I mean, that gift is worth now probably billions of dollars.
I mean, It's pretty insane. So just a bizarre history, but the Benedictine monk that I mentioned, Dom Pierre Perignon, uh, apparently this guy is viewed as like one of the biggest innovators in winemaking period, apparently he's the guy who, how there's corks in every wine bottle, champagne bottle. Um, they used to use wood stoppers initially, and he's kind of credited with inventing using the cork for champagne bottles.
Which is pretty cool. Long history, but they're obviously regarded today as like the premier champagne house for vintage champagnes. And I think the thing that's fun, I have candidly not had a ton of Dom in my life. This is only the second bottle of Dom that I've had. And Each vintage is very different.
Like it's not slightly different. I cannot emphasize enough. Like some of the vintages, the one I had, this was years ago at a buddy's [00:31:00] wedding was very like floral and more fruit forward than this is. This is more this 2013 vintage. drier, more minerality. So each is like wildly different. They're not trying to conform to like a particular style and taste that is just characteristic of Dom Perignon.
It's truly a reflection of that year and the growing conditions. So Um, it makes it fun for people who are passionate about it to chase because every year is going to drink so differently. So people like aggressively pursue all the different vintages to try them, but it's obviously an expensive
**Gizmo:** hobby.
What are some of
**Rooster:** the
**Gizmo:** good like years to look
**Senator:** for? So i've heard like 95 and 96 are unbelievable. I think the 96 one is like One of their best ever, you know, what's hard is you're usually getting something from 10 years ago. So like 2013 is what's like commercially available right now. 2012 from everything I've heard and read was not one of their better vintages.
So this is supposed to be better than that. Apparently the 2012 was a bit sweeter, um, and more fruit forward than this [00:32:00] is. But, um. There's a lot of good ones, but they're they're the best ones are all older. They're not
**Gizmo:** things you're going to find. If you
**Rooster:** could find a bottle from 95 or 96, what
**Gizmo:** would
**Senator:** that?
Oh, it'd probably be like a thousand bucks. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. At least, I mean, in fact, when I went to pick this up today, they had a bottle from, I think it was 06 that was going for, this was at Bottle King where we got a lot of, a lot of our liquor. Um, I think it was going for 700 a bottle.
**Gizmo:** Wow. That's amazing.
Yeah.
**Poobah:** So what is I've had some experience with it. I mean, I've had, I've, I've drank bottles in my life. Um, and I think the Senator's point there, they're all different. My mom loves champagne. We went to the champagne region of France. We, well, we went to Dijon. Took a wine tour of Burgundy and also champagne.
And it's very interesting. Like you, when you go in these tours, they do this one thing that I thought was weird and fascinating. They take a ladder and they like, [00:33:00] they call it riddling and they, and they riddle the bottles. So they have to actually constantly like, so when they store the bottles, they store them like, like horizontally to the ground.
And they, and they riddled, I guess it's called riddling. They have to. Turn the bottles constantly. Um, and there's like a person that does that,
**Gizmo:** the
**Poobah:** Riddler, the Riddler, um, it's called like riddling. And I just remembered that distinctly from the trip, like I just remember one time my dad had a client over at the sleeping at our house and my mom liked Dom Perignon and she would drink it on special occasions, obviously, of course, not.
But she, there'd be like, there'd be, there'd be bottles in the house. And this client's wife went down into the basement and they slept over and she took the bottle of sham. They put the Dom Perignon. She came up into the, into the kitchen and she goes, what could she did? Cause they were all drinking the night before.
[00:34:00] And she goes, wow. You know, she's like, Oh wow. Uh, mimosas. And she took the, she took the, she opened up the Dom Perignon and I'll never forget the look on my way on the, on my mom's face.
**Gizmo:** That's an expensive
**Poobah:** mimosa. It was an expensive mimosa and she was going, Oh my God, I can't put you, she couldn't say anything.
And she started mixing the Dom Perignon with orange juice and then her head almost exploded. But, uh,
**Gizmo:** Senator, you didn't bring a orange juice for us tonight. You didn't bring any orange juice? Damn you, she
**Poobah:** tells the story better than I do because she was so outraged, but she didn't say anything, but it's so good.
I mean, it's just, it's always, I haven't really had a bad, I haven't had a bad glass of it. Yeah. Um,
**Gizmo:** it's really,
**Bam Bam:** really good. It is, you know, for me, champagne is proving to be a, um, uh, a spirit or a beverage. That's Almost great to pair with virtually any cigar because of its cleansing quality. And that's what I love about the [00:35:00] champagne.
I can have any cigar. I could have a sit with a bottle go through three cigars And clearly experience each cigar independently because of how cleansing this is. Yeah. I mean,
**Poobah:** it's pretty special. It is. The thing about the thing, the thing about this champagne to me is that it's, it's so smooth and buttery.
Why? Yeah. And it's always, it's just so balanced that I, I think generally speaking, they're probably better vintages than others. I'm not an expert on years and all that stuff, but I don't, I don't think very often they put out something that. Really is, you know, off, I agree, you know, it's like, it's kind of like if you're getting it and it's there, it's price is one thing, but you're not really going to have a bad experience with the bottle of Dom.
Um, so celebratory and delicious. And, you know, uh, the buttery quality goes with caviar, you know, it's kind of like pairs. It would. That butteriness like [00:36:00] pairs up with caviar because it so well. And I think that this, of course, if we had some caviar, Senator, uh, I would pair up so well. I think that's why it
**Gizmo:** marries up.
Yeah.
**Senator:** I agree. I agree. And the thing with, I mean, to your point, Puba, I've never heard there's any truly bad vintage of Dom. You're always going to get a great and exemplary year standing experience. Right. But there is something to pursuing those certain vintages. And I say that because that first bottle of Dom I had was truly one of the best bottles of champagne I've ever had.
It's, it's definitely in fact better than what we're drinking right now. Um, but what makes it a little, I guess, easier to chase some of these, what people do that are very clever. I mean, whenever these are first released, they're all about 250. So what people will do is like every year they'll just keep buying one and you fast forward in 10 years, even five years.
I mean, that bottle's worth two, three, four, sometimes 10 times what you paid if you really just hold it for [00:37:00] decades. So, you know, you're paying the premium because some it's no different than cigars, right? Like you buy a 2020 box of something right now, it's not worth a whole lot more. In 20 years, what someone's going to pay to smoke a 2020 cigar, I mean, it's going to be a huge multiple on what you paid.
Yeah. Same exact thing with champagne. So. That's where you kind of take a gamble and you know, buy maybe let's say three vintages and you hope that one of them is just an absolute knockout and that bottle is going to be worth, you know, five, 10 times what you paid for it. Wow. Years
**Gizmo:** down the road. Amazing.
You know what's interesting too, you know, we talk about marriage with, you know, you're saying about caviar, the marriage with the cigar. Yeah. With this champagne and the similar mindset to, you know, the vintage of the champagne with the box, you know, chasing box codes on cigars. And as we learned from Danilo in Cuba, you know, when they, they have a blend and whatever tobacco they get in, the blend is the blend.
They're not changing the blend of a D four. Every year to match the prior year or five years prior, every year could be different. So that's why we talk about [00:38:00] runs of cigars. We talk about the difference in that tobacco because once they set the recipe, that's the recipe. And some years are going to be better than others, which, you know, is very parallel to.
The champagne we're drinking
**Senator:** tonight. One other thing worth noting, so, when I bought this, this was warm. They're never gonna keep Dom cold because the number of people that walk in and buy this, right? It's very few. And because of that, I had to throw it in ice here to quickly get this up to temperature.
The thing to just know for any listener that enjoys champagne, this is true of any champagne, non vintage, vintage, doesn't matter. You want champagne to be cold, but you actually don't want it to be too cold. And this was a great experiment in this, because if you've noticed this should be drinking better, the longer it's been sitting just
**Bam Bam:** above room
**Senator:** temperature is perfect.
Correct. So like right now, like that's why I've been drinking this very slowly because when I took the first sip, I could see it was too cold, so it kind of restricts some of the flavor. Still very good, but as it's come down in temperature, um, you're getting more of that full flavor and like that butteriness is [00:39:00] even just like next level as it's gotten to kind of it's happy.
It's creamier
**Bam Bam:** as it comes down in temperature for sure. Yeah, it's,
**Poobah:** it's, it's balanced. It's, it's just, it's, it's, it's fruity up front and then it's dry. It's very, very balanced, um, very pleasurable experience. I mean, you know, it's, it's Dom Perignon. It's, it's always going to be good. This is so it's going to be good.
This is my first time
**Gizmo:** having it. There's no tight draw. You know what I'm saying? There's fewer variables. I mean,
**Poobah:** you know, you grab the bottle, you know, grab a, grab a woman.
**Gizmo:** And a good
**Poobah:** cigar. Yeah. Well, and whatever. Comes next. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Whatever happens,
**Bam Bam:** happens all BAM approved activities.
**Senator:** The other thing I'll say, you know why I enjoy us doing this kind of full range of champagne.
Like we do every spirit. I mean, the other thing that I hope you realize as you're drinking this, the Delta between some champagnes at like a 50 price point [00:40:00] and a 250 price point. It's not as aggressive as with like some spirits or just some other, you know, maybe cigars wouldn't qualify because we find 5 cigars that we'd love and rate highly.
But there are just certain things in life where like the Delta is so wide based on price, where you really have to spend so much more to enjoy something at a really high level. And I think what's nice with champagne like cigars is that, you know, Paul Roger for 50 bucks a bottle, 45 sometimes is so incredibly satisfying and A bottle of Dom or some vintage stuff that we've had while better, that Delta is not so insane that you feel like you have to spend 250 every time to enjoy like a really great bottle.
**Poobah:** That's right. But it's the experience with the brand, you're making a statement. It's so celebratory. It's. A bottle of Dom Pérignon stands for something and you're paying for that. I mean, that's, so that's where that, that, that, [00:41:00] that, that bigger Delta comes into play because of the brand. It's all branding.
Um, I'm sure if you don't, you know, if you went deeper into vintage champagne, you could find something at a better price point that may be able to compete.
**Gizmo:** I mean,
**Senator:** we did a vintage bottle I brought of the, um, and I think that also was 2013. Ironically, it was a 2013. Yeah. And that was fantastic. And that honestly was a fraction of the price.
I think I paid like one 20 for that. We're, you know, this is two
**Gizmo:** 50 that's half the price,
**Poobah:** half the price, of course. But, you know, if you're in a, if, you know, if you're in the four seasons in a robe,
**Bam Bam:** you settle for the Polaroid.
**Poobah:** Are you getting the Paul Roger? You
**Gizmo:** know, he's saying you get
**Bam Bam:** it. You're not right. Hey honey, pass the Dom, will you? Yeah,
**Poobah:** pass the Paul Roger or you gonna, you gonna, you gonna come out in a robe with a bottle of Dom?
**Senator:** As a good friend always says, uh, who got [00:42:00] me into Paul Roger to start, she says, if, if Paul Roger is good enough for Churchill, it's good enough for me.
Absolutely.
**Gizmo:** So boys, we always talk about this on our New Year's episode, Cigar Aficionado announced the Cigar of the Year. It was the Fuente Fuente Opus X Reserva de Chateau, which is a 48 ring gauge by seven inch Churchill, which they say of course is 19 and 50 cents, which is actually closer to 50 or 60, you know, and I was looking at their list and we're going to go through their list in, you know, an upcoming episode in the next few weeks, but it is amazing to me how.
The, all the brands somehow line up perfectly in that top 10, they're all in there. There's no repeats. It's just every year that this comes out, I trust it less.
**Bam Bam:** Of course. And even some of the most novice cigar guys and girls, they see that list and they, you know, they, they, [00:43:00] they, it's skeptical for them as well.
**Senator:** I mean, the thing I will say, at least why I think we and other people still always look out for it every year, thankfully. There's at least one or two cigars that are excellent cigars that are deserving. Like we saw a few in there that we said, okay, that's the up
**Bam Bam:** into one. How many years ago was that last year?
Yeah. Yeah. Extraordinarily.
**Gizmo:** But B2 at number six. Yeah. P2 was number six this year. Yeah. So it, you know, it's interesting to see the Opus X there. I think they've won in the past, but you know, it's every year they rotate another company at number one. There's never. You know, and it's like, I just don't know if that's reality.
Well, none of it's reality, you know, like, well, it's not real. A drone should be number one every year. That's true. You know,
**Poobah:** it, it, it, well, right. But that wouldn't make it interesting. It's all a game. It's all based on advertising dollars and, and, and, and relationships. And it, it, it, it
**Bam Bam:** is, it's true. Riddle me, riddle me this though.
How does the admin to get on that list as number one?
**Poobah:** [00:44:00] They have to shake it up. I mean, they have to. Yeah. They, they have to shake things up once in a while, but I, I, I believe that it's all, um, it that it's, it's an
**Grinder:** industry
**Poobah:** marketing ploy. Yeah. I mean, it's an industry marketing ploy. I mean, it's, it's, that's all it is.
I mean, uh, uh, they're gonna smoke these cigars. They don't change all that much, particularly the new worlds. I mean, from year to year. It's not like they're changing
**Senator:** that much. Cubans do I, ill say opus. Opus changes a lot. In that I hate them young, and then I've had like an opus, I mean, a few of us had this cigar, um, the, it's like a, um, double Robusto, Robusto Extra, and, uh, that had five years of age, and it was, maybe
**Gizmo:** more, it was incredible, it was
**Poobah:** honestly phenomenal, they do, they do, you know, Well, when the
**Rooster:** first came out, the tobacco was, pretty aged.
And I think they've been kind of pushing it just because of the demand. They're not aging it as much. Yeah. So initially when Opus first came out, I mean, they were [00:45:00] fantastic. They were great cigars. So it built that demand, but you know, this list, like the top 10 or the top 25, it's a great. thing for a beginner to kind of like source cigars and he can go up and down the list and try them all out and, you know, it doesn't have to look for
**Senator:** it though.
It is. I've mentioned this before. I mean, Shelly's Backroom in DC, uh, favorite cigar, uh, lounge of mine, they, every year when CA comes out with their top 25 list. They procure every single one of the top 25 and they sell them at very reasonable prices. I mean, most lounges, as we all know, and any listener knows, the markup is pretty heavy when you're in a lounge, right?
You're paying two, three times what that cigar retails for. Very affordable. And for me, in my earlier days with cigars, when I was living in DC, it was just helpful to kind of be able to run through that list and try different things. So, um, uh, the list, sadly for all of it's. Countless flaws. I think it's still a net positive in the conversation that it fosters within kind of the industry.
I guess there's a utility [00:46:00] to it, right?
**Gizmo:** I just wish that the, you know, the Cigar of the Year was something that's much more attainable that, you know, an everyday listener or reader of that magazine could go out and buy. I mean, that cigar is going to be impossible to find now for the next three to five years.
Yep. Just because of it was named number one. And I think that's unfortunate.
**Grinder:** There was a cigar, the Andalusian bull that was coming up. That was, that was, we're had that coming up. I'm looking forward to it. I've, I've yet to smoke that cigar. Me neither. I had, I, for five years, it was impossible.
**Gizmo:** It's still very, very hard to get.
Yeah. It's still very
**Poobah:** difficult. The pledge prequel wasn't that the EP Carillo. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Thankfully, thankfully, that was pretty easy to get, though.
**Poobah:** That was pretty easy to get, but what a, you know, what a disappointment. That was a big miss. What a, what a disappointment. It's so, you know, Hey, if I'm running a publication and this is a commercial operation, you know, and you've been doing it as long as.
I [00:47:00] mean, you know, you do, you, you know where your bread's buttered, you're running a commercial operation. I want my bills paid. I want my relationships. These, these, I I'm convinced that these reviews are all. You know, loaded for bear before they're even done. Yep. I agree with you
**Senator:** now, bam, you're going to love this, but we have to have a small gizmo accountability hour on this.
**Bam Bam:** Oh, I do love this gizmo. I don't care. You know what? I don't care what it's about. So
**Gizmo:** that's not nice.
**Senator:** So I don't care
**Gizmo:** before, by the way, bam, just lit up like a, like a Christmas tree. Let me sit up in my chair. Is he
**Poobah:** coming up? Is he eating Kava bowls?
**Gizmo:** No, no,
**Senator:** no, no, no, this is on the CA bowls. So Gizmo, Gizmo sent out a text.
The day before they were going to announce the big CA number one cigar of the year, saying he was absolutely certain that he knew what cigar was going to get number one. [00:48:00] And we were even talking about the lounge. He's like, he bought seven of them in fact, in advance for us to do on the pod, because that's how confident he was that it was going to be cigar of the year.
That's right. He said he wanted to bet me the other night. I should have taken him up on this bet. I would have made out handsomely. Yeah. Uh, Gizmo, how did that work out? We're, we're, how did that
**Gizmo:** work
**Poobah:** out? Did it even make the top 10? I
**Gizmo:** didn't listen to, all right. So here's, here was my, here was my math on this.
So I didn't listen to what Puba just said. I, for some reason, stupidly ignored the Marvin R. Schenken publication, you know, MO. And I was looking at the list and I saw that Fuente hadn't made the top 10. So of course I knew that it was going to be a Fuente and I was looking through the reviews of the year through the, throughout the year.
Of Fuente cigars in, in Cigar Aficionado and the Hemingway series work of art actually got a 97 or something or 95. It was their highest rated Fuente of the year. So I was like, you know, it made sense to me that that was going to be [00:49:00] the cigar of the year. Of course. To Senator's point, to Puba's point, you can't name a Hemingway Cigar of the Year.
Of course, I'm just
**Senator:** like, that's such a basic entry level cigar. Of course, they're going to go something scarce, but. Yeah, they're going to pick something. Honestly,
**Bam Bam:** I thought, because he's a global insider. He
**Senator:** was. Well, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if I
**Gizmo:** am anymore. I thought. 2024
**Bam Bam:** started off a little rough.
I thought you may have been tipped off.
**Gizmo:** No. No, no, no. They actually keep that pretty well in the raps, but I was wrong. You know, their process, I guess they just smoke everything that they did in the year. I think this got a 94 originally. Then when they rated it again for the final competition, it got a 97, beat out everything else.
So I was dead wrong. I thought it was going to be work of art. I wish it was. I think that that would have been an exciting cigar. To see when simply for the accessibility of it, the price of it, that anybody on any budget could go out and buy it. And here we are now with an opus that's 50, 60, and it's going to only go up in price,
**Poobah:** premium cigars, always going to get that
**Gizmo:** spot and you were right.
And Senator was right. And I've lost my [00:50:00] status. Well, hopefully you can get your money back status. You
**Senator:** can keep your United status
**Gizmo:** insider.
**Poobah:** I'm the commercial. I'm the head of, if I'm the head of commercial at Fuente. Okay. I I'm going to be like, you want to advertise, you want me to advertise in your book?
I don't need you to, to rate a box of cigars. That's a mass market cigar for me. I need you to rate if I'm or don't rate, don't put me in the top 10. You don't even like, if you're going to put me in the top 10, I want to sell my premium high margin cigar. Do you know what I mean? That's what I want in the top 10 or don't put me in it at
**Gizmo:** all.
Yeah, I get it. I was
**Pagoda:** wrong. I wonder what the process is, right? It could be as simple as, Hey, whichever company wants to sponsor in the magazine.
**Gizmo:** So what they do is they go through all the cigars they reviewed during the year in the magazine. They take the top run of them, the top You know, 50 or a hundred or whatever, and then they re [00:51:00] review them blind.
And that's how, what they call their process. Of course, when it settles, you know, it gets down to the end and they're, you know, they're going through actually making the list. They're, they're going to, that's when they're going to consider the relationship, advertising dollars, who won last year, et cetera.
It is what it is. Even,
**Bam Bam:** even though I say so myself, no way the lizard lounge cigar list that we have on our website, we've. There are seven guys in the room. We test the cigars every week. You get a rating. This is directly for the listener. These are proven cigars for the good or the bad. Yeah. And you
**Gizmo:** know what you're going to get.
So boys, we'll get to a full recap of our 2023 in a moment, but I'm curious, what are you guys thinking? We're about halfway through here on the Partagas 898.
**Bam Bam:** It's an incredible cigar. I'm loving it. Yeah, it's difficult to find any issues with it. You know, it's, it's delicious. It's consistent for me from the point of view of the flavor profiles.
A lot of dessert notes are continuing all the way through. That biscuit that we talked about still there. I'm really just
**Grinder:** so good. I'm really enjoying it. Same [00:52:00] RetroHale.
**Bam Bam:** RetroHale is phenomenal. That's
**Grinder:** all I'm doing. Me too. The only thing I would say. Um, I did have to, like I said, I had to do the, the, uh, perfect draw on the cigar and I've touched this up like three times.
I'm also smoking it low, like a lot slower than normal. I think that is because I'm not getting as much smoke out of it, frankly, but, uh, but it is delicious.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's really nice. Oh yeah. You know, it's still weathery for me. It's picked up just a little bit in strength. Really? I would say it's still medium, you know, um, but it's really, really delicious.
Yeah. Thank
**Pagoda:** you, Rusa, for the cigar, because this has really changed my experience today. Yeah. Really, really enjoying it.
**Gizmo:** Puba, how's your second one?
**Poobah:** Much better. Um, it's performing much better. It's still a little bit. For me personally, the resistance is just a little bit, the combustion isn't quite there for me on it.
That's really my only complaint, but the, but the taste and the [00:53:00] flavor, uh, it's really, really nice. I'm just wanting, it's leaving me wanting a little bit more in terms of how much smoke I'm getting out of it. And the performance that the performance is a little, for me personally, I like a little bit more open of a draw.
I want a little bit more smoke on each puff. I want it. If it's world class Lonsdale, like 2011 class coast Lonsdale, I want more combustion, I want more smoke. And that's my only complaint. Other than that, the flavor profile I love. Yeah. It's,
**Rooster:** it's, it's kind of odd that. Me, you and Pagoda are smoking a cigar out of the same box and I'm getting a lot of smoke output.
So
**Gizmo:** is Pagoda when I see
**Poobah:** it and, uh No, I am too. I'm getting much more, but not quite as much as I'd really like. Yeah, but I'm just, I just
**Rooster:** mean the inconsistency of Cuban cigars. I mean, it is,
**Gizmo:** it's
**Senator:** right there. No, it's true. I mean, I mentioned literally looking within my box [00:54:00] and I could tell some of these were just going to have serious draw issues and I tried to pick the best I could and even this is a bit snug.
I mean, that's, that's the frustration. That's the frustration. We
**Gizmo:** know that since we've been to
**Rooster:** Cuba, we know that the entire box is not rolled by the same person.
**Gizmo:** That's right. It could be rolled by 25 different people. 25 different people. The color match ends the issue. So boys, let's move into our second pairing tonight.
Let's. The Delord 25 year aged Armagnac. Indeed. Which I believe is our second Armagnac on the pod, correct? Yeah. We did the, uh, the Dartigalonga or Say that again?
**Poobah:** The, the, the Dingleberry
**Gizmo:** Yonkabo? I forget how to pronounce it. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** the Daringlong, Darlong. That's also not good.
**Poobah:** I don't think Bam is
**Gizmo:** the one to go for.
He's been my coach. This is why I have so many problems.
**Bam Bam:** Don't say
**Poobah:** that out loud. He's a linguistics expert.
**Bam Bam:** I, I highly recommend though, before you take [00:55:00] a sip, Just put this to your nose. Yeah. The nose is amazing. Aromatics, vanilla and caramel powerful on the nose. It's really amazing.
**Gizmo:** Oh, that's a nice spirit.
No,
**Bam Bam:** this is a bolder expression than the first Armagnac that we had. It's a bit bolder.
**Gizmo:** This is really nice.
**Poobah:** So I'm going to go on record first off on a couple of things. I'm going to go on record that I absolutely love this. Here we go. Beyond love. Uh, wait a minute. Is this a revelation? Beyond. So I didn't really know much about.
As exemplified by my text, hold on, let me sit up in my chair. Hold on. I didn't actually know. No, I really, I didn't. No, no, I
**Gizmo:** was French. Bam is vindicated.
**Poobah:** I'm on you. I'm on you right now, baby. Oh, no, no, no, no. I was only because I hadn't experienced, you know, so for the listener, we, we exchanged text messages about what we're going to.
Review and talk about, and, and, and I hadn't had any experience, um, with Armagnac. I hadn't, so I didn't, I knew it [00:56:00] was like French brandy, but like. I didn't know I hadn't had it before. So I just was saying we haven't, has anyone actually had this stuff before? It's, you know, it's the New Year's Eve, uh, podcast.
And, you know, if we haven't had it before and it ends up being a dud, well, we don't want that. So. That's what, but, but this. Sometimes taking
**Senator:** a risk
**Gizmo:** pays off. Oh,
**Poobah:** no, no, no. Hey, listen, uh, you know, open minded. This is outstanding.
**Gizmo:** Excellent. 25 year age spirit. It's delicious. It's outstanding.
**Poobah:** So bam. It's caramel, it's vanilla, and it's even a little dry in the finish.
It's kind of balanced and it's super, it's super duper. Really nice with
**Gizmo:** the Cuban cigar. Really nice. And how much was this
**Bam Bam:** bottle? So it's not a crazy price. I paid just under 86 bucks for this. I think that's a bargain.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. That's a great price.
**Bam Bam:** Great price. 25 age. You know, you're at
**Gizmo:** 25 year
**Senator:** aged. Yeah. I think the most I've seen it for online is a hundred [00:57:00] and the way this is already drinking.
I mean, it's deserving of a hundred dollar price point. Agreed. It's a premium
**Gizmo:** spirit. If he said it was 125, I wouldn't bat an eye. Honestly, I would not bat an eye. So
**Bam Bam:** this is a listener recommend. Lizard Charlie recommended this. He and I had this months ago because we live locally together, had it on his porch and this and the other Armagnac, these are two spirits I want to continue to pursue.
**Senator:** No doubt guys. Just out of curiosity. Is this Charlie that used to come here? No. Oh, he drinks. No, no. 25 year armor. Wow. I have misread him. No, no, no. I would be. He's never been,
**Poobah:** you know, it's interesting though. Nice guy, but I would
**Gizmo:** just not expect
**Bam Bam:** it. He's never been
**Poobah:** here. Okay. But when you talk about a price Delta between maybe like a more mass produced, uh, Remy, And something like this, that's been aged for this long, maybe someone can talk about a little bit about, I don't, uh, uh, about Armagnac and, and I know that it's, it's, it's, it's produced in exponentially smaller amounts than, than French cognac, [00:58:00] but it's a French brandy.
**Senator:** Yeah, the thing is, so, you know, any, I mean, your initial hesitation or anybody who was kind of wary when they see Armagnac and they're like, I've never had this, I've never heard of it. The reality is it's no different than Cognac. Cognac is brandy. It's just made in the Cognac region, and Armagnac is brandy.
It's just made in the Armagnac region. So it's literally the exact same spirit, just from different parts of the country that naturally are going to impart some different flavors. But, um, you know, I think we're always looking for these hidden gems that deliver exactly what we're looking for in flavor, but maybe haven't invested as aggressively in marketing like some regions and brands have.
And I just, I mean, you know, I give BAM credit for exploring this because again, I was the big, you know, Cognac evangelist that we need to do more Cognac. I had never had an Armagnac a day in my life until Bam had finally poured me one. And this is the second one. And I
**Gizmo:** love this too. And that's
**Poobah:** why I was kind of, I didn't know if anyone had [00:59:00] had it.
I, I, I clearly, I wasn't on that episode when it was reviewed. So I had no idea what, what to expect to expect. Sure. And also on the text, you were like, it's down more. I'm like, is this what
**Gizmo:** he was using Siri? Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Siri is a love, hate relationship.
**Gizmo:** So I have a little bit of history on Delord. It was established in the late 19th century in the village of Lannipax in the Bas Armagnac region of France.
The distillery was founded by a guy named Prosper Delord, who was a traveling distiller who decided to settle down in the region of Armagnac to distill his French brandy. And what I like about this is this is a family owned business. That's cool. And has been passed down through generations and still is family owned.
They have a ton of different expressions, of course. VSOP, XO, as we know, this 25 year age bottle, they have different varying, you know, age statement bottles that they release each year. What's cool about this, and maybe Grindr knows a little bit more about this than I [01:00:00] do, it's Made in traditional distillation methods and copper stills and it's finished aged in oak barrels.
Yeah, which is great. And this is a wonderful, wonderfully
**Senator:** smooth spirit. Yeah, the thing that's just incredible is you will never find a 25 year age spirit Under a hundred dollars. True.
**Gizmo:** It's insane. Of
**Senator:** anything. I mean, when, when BA first sent the photo and I saw 25 years on it, I'm like, oh wow, we're really going all out for this New Year's episode.
I thought he was gonna say it was a $300
**Bam Bam:** bottle. So I had this maybe seven months ago, and I've been looking for it ever since. It's been impossible to find. So it's a bottle. I found. It's a bottle. The last bottle. Last bottle. It's awesome. Yeah. I
**Gizmo:** think worth pursuing. And how, how do you guys feel about how it's pairing with our Cuban cigar tonight?
I think
**Pagoda:** I'm loving it. Yeah.
**Senator:** I think it's excellent.
**Pagoda:** It's, uh, you know, what I'm finding is you have a sip and you get a bit of the dry finish and then you have a nice, uh, draw, a puff. It's a longer finish on the cigar. So it kind of [01:01:00] envelopes it. I don't know. I can't express it. It's
**Bam Bam:** uh, I like that point of view.
Yeah. So interesting. I think the dessert notes and the spirit and the cigar pair nicely.
**Senator:** Compliment. I agree. Yeah. And I also think like, you know, you were talking about, uh, the, uh, Mim Romney's book before and how the 898 has kind of dialed down and aggressiveness over time. And, you know, I don't think this is a.
A very bold or full cigar and so this refined spirit with 25 years of age, I mean, it's just, we're all drinking this neat and it's just so smooth. It doesn't overpower the cigar. It just perfectly compliments it. So I think, you know, for a cigar like this, having a refined spirit to go hand in hand with it, I think just works really well.
**Bam Bam:** And the previous army neck that we had, I found that to be a, just a bit sweeter and not as dry and not as, I guess the proof on this seems to be a bit higher than that spirit. It seems because it's a little bolder. I, the, the difference between the two for me is intriguing.
**Poobah:** I think it's, I think it's 40%.
Yeah,
**Gizmo:** this is 40%. Oh, is that right? Standard. [01:02:00] Yeah. Okay. You know what else, Senator, while you have that bottle in your hand, you know what else I love about it too? The label. The label. It's handwritten. The, uh, the other bottle we had looks very, very similar
**Bam Bam:** to this. Well, the Darlon that we had, that was a printed band or a printed label.
This is a hand, it looks handwritten to me and there's a rustic beauty to this bottle. Apparently
**Senator:** this has even won awards on the back of the bottle. It says Chairman's Trophy 97 points at the Ultimate Spirits Challenge in 2018. It got a gold medal at some French competition. So it's even a decorated bottle.
Top
**Gizmo:** recommendation. Cool. Yeah. Excellent spirit, especially for that price. Yeah.
**Poobah:** Like as an after dinner drink where. You know, this is, this is a home run with like a, you have this on the side with a little, you know, dark truck, like a chocolate cake or something like
**Bam Bam:** that. Although I've never ever seen this in any restaurant or bar.
I haven't seen this anywhere.
**Senator:** I mean, why? Because people don't know anything about it. And so the restaurant is worried no one's going to buy it. [01:03:00] Yeah. But this is where I'm so glad we're doing this because this spirit deserves its time. Like this is something that anybody who enjoys cognac would instantly love this.
Agreed. And anybody who even enjoys, you know, whiskey, scotch, you know, any kind of darker spirit, rum would
**Bam Bam:** appreciate this. Yeah. Rum. Yeah.
**Poobah:** Good parallel. Yeah. I mean, this is something like I, I, I would drink after a meal. You know, uh, as an after dinner drink with a smoke, um, a little dessert and it's very nice.
Yeah, excellent spirit. But it's not overly sweet. I mean, and then it, it, it, it, it's pretty
**Pagoda:** balanced for, for being as, as sweet up front as it is. Getting some,
**Grinder:** uh, like walnut.
**Senator:** I can see that. I get it on the nose even, actually. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, this is really good, Bam. Thank you. Sure.
**Bam Bam:** Lizard Charlie.
**Senator:** Well done.
Awesome. This is one of those moments where, you know, if any of us were loaded and [01:04:00] had insane amounts of money to, like, acquire any kind of distillery, I mean, can you imagine buying this distillery and just really marketing the hell out of it at the price point. Imagine how much volume they could move.
100. You'd have to ramp up your production. 25. You would, you
**Pagoda:** would. The interesting thing is a lot of times the folks who do this and have passion for it, They're putting, they're aging the spirit 25 years, they may have no desire to do that. Oh, no,
**Senator:** I'm sure. I'm just saying, you know, I wish in a, in a, you know, this utopia that we could just acquire this.
And I just, I feel like, I hope that. Over time, and, and this seems to happen. I mean, Cognac, even, honestly, since we've started doing it on the pod, I'm not saying because of our pod, as much as I would love for that to be the case, I just feel like Cognac has, is now getting a lot more [01:05:00] attention, and a big spotlight put on it in a way that I certainly didn't see 10 years ago.
Yeah. And I really hope for Armagnac that the same thing happens, because this is special. Like, I, I would I could
**Bam Bam:** see Senator's next life being in this whole world. Oh yeah. Could be.
**Gizmo:** It's already happening. Oh, I think so.
**Senator:** The wheels are turning.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. I'm actually fine, but nobody else finding out.
**Bam Bam:** That's another thing that's gonna just go out.
That's
**Pagoda:** true. Well, the category, the category is, uh, it's hip in some circles. It's not in others. So it's weird. It's a, it's a weird category, you know, there's like an, there's like an older, more mature group. And then there's kind of a hip, like the Hennessy kind of, you know, cognac drinkers or what, you know what I mean?
It's, it's a, it's what's in
**Gizmo:** kind of in
**Senator:** style. That's the beauty of it. Honestly, if you think about it, how many spirits do you have? We're like an older crowd. That wants, you know, that [01:06:00] robust, refined after dinner drink, but also a younger crowd who's like literally at a nightclub drinking the exact same spirit.
I mean, it's crazy, like the range of people who these spirits
**Bam Bam:** appeal to. Yeah. And Hennessy has made that leap, right? Yeah. Yeah. They've done it.
**Gizmo:** Brand point of view. Cognac. Cognac.
**Bam Bam:** Armagnac. Yeah. Don't give this to John.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. So it's time to do our 2023 Lounge Lizards year in review and name our top cigars and pairings for the year.
And we'll start with our pairings. So we'll start with number 10, Mount Gay XO Rum at a 9. 5. That was delicious, dude. Excellent. And as we said on that episode, and I actually have had some listeners email us saying that they agreed with the comment that Mount gay XO is as close to Cuban rum as they've had, which is where we were.
And we've said that. And we've said that I've still used, you know, I've still paired that with Cuban cigars at home. It's [01:07:00] such an excellent rum. Oh yeah. Number nine, Don Filano Tequila Añejo at a 9. 6. What a fantastic tequila. Absolutely. Number eight, Balvenie 21 Portwood. We did that 13 episodes ago on episode 100.
9. 7. That was a very expensive bottle, by the way. Do you know how lucky
**Bam Bam:** we are? I'm just listening to this and I'm just
**Gizmo:** lucky. So now we have a four way tie for spot number four. So there's four of them here, all rated at a 9. 8. Composite score. I'm going to run them down. Havana Club seven year from Cuba.
The McAllen 12 year Sherry Cask. Tequila Ocho Añejo. And Weller Special Reserve Bourbon. There you go. All got a 9. 8. And then we have a three way tie.
**Senator:** By the way, just those tied for fourth. I mean, that's a hell of a party. Hell of a party. Imagine you show up and you have those four spirits. Oh my goodness.
You're not walking out of that party. That's right.
**Gizmo:** And then we have a three way tie this year, boys, for number one. [01:08:00] On the podcast. And what I love about this, just as we were talking about is it shows the evolution on the podcast here with our pairings, all three of the spirits tied for number one are all completely different.
So three way tie for number one with ratings of 10. We'll start with the Kavasya VSOP Cognac. Yes, sir. The Paul Roger Brut Reserve 2013. We also did that on episode 100. And the Santiago de Cuba. Dude. 20 year aged Cuban rum. So those are our top, those are our tie, three way tie for number one. That
**Bam Bam:** Santiago brings back memories.
Yeah. I'm about to cry. I'm
**Gizmo:** not kidding. I'm getting emotional. I just love that we have a three way tie between a rum, a cognac and a champagne. I just think that that is such an evolution.
**Senator:** That's the word evolution. It is. You would have thought back when we started this podcast. I mean, we were all just predominantly consuming scotch.
I don't recall a single time really seeing us. Anybody bring to a lounge, [01:09:00] a bottle of rum, a bottle of Cognac. And what was the third
**Gizmo:** giz? Tequila. Tequila. I was bringing tequila. No, no, no. We had Cognac, champagne. I'm
**Senator:** sorry. Champagne would be the other one. Obviously me the exception there. And so the fact that this year, our three highest rated spirits are all things that we never would have been consuming as aggressively as we do now, years ago is amazing.
**Gizmo:** And you know, the, the McAllen 12 year is the only, uh, scotch that we drink regularly that appeared in the top 10, that it was a 9. 8, just slightly below that, just slightly below. And maybe the
**Rooster:** Armagnac would make that list now.
**Gizmo:** Well, so the, so the, the D'Artigalong Basque Armagnac XO that we did. On episode 92, we did that with the Juan Lopez Seleccio number two, that got a flat 9.
0. So let's go through some of the worst pairings that we've done this year. I always love doing this. I'm not going to be able to pronounce some of these. So, a tie for number five. Pass it over to Bam.
**Bam Bam:** No. Yeah, I
**Gizmo:** got you dude. A tie for number [01:10:00] five. With a rating of flat six was the basal Hayden's bourbon and the a knock 12 12 year aged a knock garbage, both at six tied for number four was the senator barrel proof straight rye with a 5.
8. I'm
**Senator:** suing that company. Honestly,
**Gizmo:** you know, I brought that in because of your name, but I do
**Bam Bam:** degrease motor parts with that. I do. What do
**Gizmo:** you rate it when you do that, bam? That's It's
**Bam Bam:** gotta be an eight. Okay. Good. It decreases
**Gizmo:** beautifully. That's a big jump. Number three was the Peroni 0. 0 non alcoholic beer was a 5.
5. And then the runner up this year for worst spirit was the Douce VSOP Cognac. And very low down at a 4. 6 was the winner of the Raspberry this year for the worst spirit we've paired. Was the Barvin Court 15 year aged rum that was a stinker at a 4. 6.
**Bam Bam:** 15 years, that's a crime.
**Senator:** Yeah, that was rough. I mean, it tasted like it was aged for 15 months.[01:11:00]
It just was
**Gizmo:** not good. It was so bad. Alright, boys, you ready to move into cigars? Yeah. Alright, let's do it. Let's do our top 10 list. Of lounge lizard cigars in 2023. We have a tie so dramatic tie for number 10 at a 9. 2. We have a Cuban and a new world. The new world is the Padron family reserve number 85 Maduro and the Cuban was an H upman connoisseur a both at a 9.
2 number 9. 9. 3 for the Partagas Siri E, number 2. E2, number 8, the Bolivar Corona Gigantes at a 9. 5. That was a great cigar. That was a surprise. Yeah. And that cigar, unfortunately, is still, you know, not available anymore. Actually, that cigar is less available than the one we have in our hand. What year was that?
2016, I believe. Yeah, 2016. That was the last year, right? Yeah. Fantastic. And then we have a three way tie for number 5 at a 9. 6. Three cigars. The E. P. [01:12:00] Carrillo Pledge of Allegiance 2023. What a winner that cigar was. America! That was so good. I wish that they would put that in a regular production. We also had the Cohiba Lancero and the H.
Upman Robustos Anahatos. So all three of those tied for number five at a 9. 6. Excellent. Phenomenal. And then at number three, another Cuban and a new world tied at a 9. 7 rating, the Oliva V Lancero and the Partagas Coronas Gordas Anahatos.
**Bam Bam:** Wow. That Oliva V is something that we still talk about to this day.
Oh yeah. In our club, among us. What a unicorn. And we
**Senator:** smoke it every week. Yeah, forget that price. It's cracked almost all of our
**Gizmo:** daily rotations. I smoke at least two to three a week. It's insane. And that's a 5 cigar. Can't beat the price. It's crazy. That's a 5 cigar. I smoked that probably five to six times a week.
Yeah. Yep. Phenomenal. Phenomenal. And you know, we have a lot of listeners who say that [01:13:00] that cigar was a true revelation for them at the price and the rating we gave. And I've had no one say, wow, you guys are crazy. A revelation for us as
**Senator:** well. Anyone who says we don't review budget cigars, watch that episode or listen to that episode.
**Gizmo:** And then number two at a 9. 9 was the Padron 50 years, the Hammer. In Maduro that we did on episode 100 and boy is number one this year was a Cuban. Ramon Ionis number two EL from 2019. The Ion Liata, which got a flat 10.0 delicious cigar. That's an amazing cigar. Yeah, and Uba smoked through 'em all too soon.
He did.
**Senator:** He's a baller.
**Bam Bam:** I mean, he's not
**Gizmo:** gonna, he's not gonna hold back. I do have some for him. I'm gonna give him one. So . Alright, let's go through our Stinkers boys. We have a tie for number 10 of our stinkers, the HVC Hot Cake Corona Gorda, and the Rocky Patel, a LR. Second edition Robusto both tied at a 6.
6 rooster. What do you think about that? [01:14:00]
**Rooster:** It's right on.
**Senator:** Pagoda is going to have a day of mourning over this. I'm
**Gizmo:** crying. I agree with the ratings. And the number 8 was the leaf by Oscar at a 6. 4. That was disgusting.
**Senator:** We still haven't cleaned up all the pieces off the floor here. It's still in my teeth. And
**Gizmo:** that's just from the outer covering.
Exactly. Which apparently some people smoke the outer covering. I'm very confused about the whole thing. That's awful. All right. Number seven tattoo. I hate Tuxtla Loma de Cerdo, the pork wine. Oh, butcher paper at a 6. 3 came in butcher paper. That was a rooster. That was a rooster at number six. At a 6. 2 was the new world by A.
J. Fernandez Dorado in Robusto. That was not even memorable. I don't even smoke. I don't even, I don't even remember smoking that smoke. We have our first Cuban entry at number 5, with a flat 6 tied with the Plasencia Almafuerte [01:15:00] generation 5 is the Puerto Laranjaga, Golanus. Both of those were not great. Wow.
Number 3. This one was a major disappointment. The San Cristobal, Hiramal, Malaya, Edicione Regionale, Malaysia. 5. 8. Gross. And now we've come to our runner up for worst cigar of the year. The Caldwell Long Live the Queen. Queen's sword at a 5. 1. What a stinker. The queen is dead. Oh. That's true. That's true. And number one worst cigar we smoked this year.
Was the Hoyo de Monterrey Elegantis LCDH at a 4. 8. Completely flat cigar. That was, that was a bit surprising. I think it was. That was where I was expecting it. Mine wouldn't even smoke. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You put yours down. So, what, what's interesting to me about this is our worst cigar of the year and our best cigar that we smoked this year were both Cuban.
Yeah. That's quite a range from a 10 to a 4. 8.
**Senator:** [01:16:00] I mean that perfectly sums up Cuban cigars. It does. Yeah. It's hit or it's miss. There's nothing in between, right? You're either going to get a great draw and a great experience, a tight cigar that you can't smoke. You just sign up for this when you're exploring the world of Cuban
**Bam Bam:** cigars.
Yep. Go for the staples and go to our list. Yep.
**Gizmo:** Stick to it. So I would say the two big revelations for cigars this year for us, you know, just to highlight them again, are Carillo Pledge of Allegiance 2023. Uh, limited edition, which wasn't a very expensive cigar. It was just limited. You couldn't get them. I think it was 20 or 30 bucks.
And I believe some of us couldn't,
**Senator:** most of us couldn't get them, but apparently someone had their hands on,
**Gizmo:** you know, it's time for Pagoda accountability. Can you tell this story? Okay. This
**Senator:** is not me. No, no, no, no, no. Because I don't think Ben was there. You're going to, you're going to be shocked when you hear this, like fall out of your chair.
Shocked. Oh yeah. Crazy. So we're chatting in the other, uh, in the lounge the other night about how much we love that Pledge of Allegiance cigar. And Pagoda's like, oh, yeah, you [01:17:00] know, um, I mean, I don't have any more. I had bought like five or six boxes of them And they're all gone five six boxes when he said it.
I thought he misspoke and I was like you mean cigars, right? He's like no no boxes. I'm like, I can't get one box. I can't even get an extra cigar And he's got five or six boxes. We talked
**Grinder:** about that cigar for three weeks after we rated
**Senator:** it. I don't have any He gave
**Gizmo:** it to
**Senator:** all of
**Gizmo:** his
**Senator:** friends who are not lizards on this podcast.
Motherfucker.
**Pagoda:** Goddamn bastard. I missed that episode and I haven't had one. I handed it out to nearly everybody in the lounge. I handed out to a lot of people. We're
**Gizmo:** just chopped liver. Chopped liver.
**Pagoda:** That's good to know. The best
**Grinder:** part of recounting.
**Bam Bam:** Don't
**Senator:** worry guys. I gave them out to everyone in the lounge, except
**Grinder:** the best part of that recounting this story.
**Pagoda:** It was the wry smile on your face the whole time, you're just like,
**Gizmo:** like so happy about it. I'm not happy. [01:18:00]
**Pagoda:** I know, I know what it is. It's not happy. It's just an idea I was, I was trying to recollect because I have a very
**Bam Bam:** short term memory.
I have a question. Who in the room hasn't had it? Pooba, have you had that?
**Grinder:** Which one? No,
**Senator:** Pledge of Allegiance. No, no, no. It's a limited edition for July 4th. I didn't
**Gizmo:** have it. I've never had
**Grinder:** it. I don't know if I've had it. I'll get
**Bam Bam:** it for you. It's a good one. I have. I don't have it.
**Pagoda:** You don't have. You gave away four boxes.
**Senator:** Five or six bucks. So I'll
**Pagoda:** tell you what happened was I went to JNR and bought seven boxes. Seven? Oh my God. I took all the inventory away and then a lot of my friends really wanted it and I just. Oh, we
**Senator:** didn't
**Rooster:** want it at all. We're not your friends.
**Gizmo:** By the way, I went through hell to get a box for the podcast and he got seven.
This is,
**Pagoda:** I didn't know it was that different. To get it. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Jesus.
**Pagoda:** Unbelievable. No, that's why you bought stuff and bought
I mean, that's the point. Are we gonna, are we really gonna buy this [01:19:00] narrative? It was, it was, uh, you know, just immediate short term gratification. And that was,
**Grinder:** I think, I think it's hand up account.
**Pagoda:** We know you were struggling up, up. We know you were, we know you were struggling. Come on, we're going through some stuff.
End up, hook up.
**Gizmo:** I'm glad your
**Rooster:** friends enjoyed them.
**Gizmo:** So,
**Bam Bam:** um, Kuba and Grindr, I have one for each of you guys. Awesome. I have four left. I'll give you guys one. Four boxes or four cigars? Four
**Senator:** sticks.
**Bam Bam:** I wish.
**Rooster:** So how many, how many do you have
**Gizmo:** left
**Pagoda:** now, Pagoda? I have none. I finished them very quick. I enjoyed
**Gizmo:** that.
Just smoked them all. All right, boys. So let's go through five more cigars that rated nine and above in 2023. I think it's, it's important to, to highlight these. A good blend of both new world and Cuban. We had the Davidoff Millennium Lancero at a 9. 1. That remains an excellent cigar. That's also a limited edition.
So that's going to become even harder to find. Boy, I
**Pagoda:** thought that I think I feel like that's, that's Should be a couple tenths of a point [01:20:00] higher. You're right. That's a hell of a smell. It really is. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** it's a great cigar. Then we had the Monte Cristo Supremos Edition Limitado from 2019. That was, uh, that's also a tough one to get.
That was a flat 9. 0. Also tied with that was the Bolivar Royal Corona from Cuba and the warped Maestro Del Tiempo 5205. And you think about those three tied for a flat 9. From the point of view of price? From the point of view of price. It's insane. It's crazy. I mean, it's just dramatically, you know, varying in price.
I mean,
**Pagoda:** there's one, there's one thing you can't take away from Davidoff is that they can roll anything.
**Gizmo:** Sure. Consistency. Except Tauros. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
**Pagoda:** Correct. That's correct. Duly noted. Their Toros suck. Generally.
**Gizmo:** And then rounding out our top 15 is the Don Pepin Garcia blue Lancero. Oh yeah. Which also had a nine and that was a secret sleeper.
That's a sleeper like the Oliva V [01:21:00] Lancero and the, and the warped Maestro Del Tiempo 5205. I would say those three. Correct. Were real big surprises. I got
**Grinder:** so happy when you guys all loved that. Yeah. Because I have. I do have like 15 boxes. No, I don't have to. I think I have two. I think I have two boxes and one of them is I think I only have one left.
Like half of a box left. Yeah, well,
**Gizmo:** that cigar is worth pursuing. It's so
**Senator:** good. The beauty of the boxes of those. There's 30 so many in there.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, it's amazing. It's incredible value and we should take some pride in a lot of the members here are now pursuing that cigar. It's being smoked by a lot of other members.
It's a very cool thing. Yeah. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** And then rounding out the stinkers that rated under a seven as far as cigars this year. We have two new worlds, the Ellucion Holy Lance in Maduro at a 6. 9. The La Paulina Goldie Leguito No. 2, which was a hype cigar, rated very poorly at a 6. 8. And another Hoyo made the list, Hoyo de Monterey Epicure No.
1 at a 6. 7. [01:22:00]
**Grinder:** It's probably the, the least liked marca. We hate that marca. Out of, out of indica, out of like Maybe Romeo. Romeo's
**Senator:** one, that would be two.
**Bam Bam:** I'll be honest though, that Hoyo Double Corona. I happen to love that cigar. I always will love that cigar. It's a little bit, it's different to
**Gizmo:** polarizing cigar.
It really is. We're going to have to do that on an upcoming episode. Actually, we have the punch double Corona coming up on an upcoming episode. When, when
**Senator:** we do the oil double Corona, we'll do it without gizmo.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Like you did when you found it.
**Pagoda:** Well, all I, all I know is I remember send her on, on, on, on my deck at, at about a couple of years ago at about.
1 30 in the morning saying, this is the best cigar I've ever had in my entire life. Hands down. And he got into the last third and he said, this is the worst cigar I've
**Gizmo:** ever had in my life. Hands down. Hey, that's That sums up Cuban tobacco. [01:23:00] All right, boys. So this is interesting. We had a little bit of a variation on our composites this year.
Uh, in the, in the prior years, they were a little bit closer to flat eights, you know, seven, nine, eight, as far as our composite score. So for all cigar, all cigars this year in 2023, our composite score across all of us was a flat 8. 0 in Cuban cigars. The composite was an 8. 3 and new new worlds. Was a composite this year of a 7.
9. So there was a four point swing between new worlds and Cubans this year. Um, who was the
**Bam Bam:** most enthusiastic Raider?
**Gizmo:** Uh, I think the one asking the
**Pagoda:** question doesn't rate anything under a nine.
**Bam Bam:** I love cigars. I will always will love cigars.
**Gizmo:** So here's what I'll say. Bam is definitely the most generous Raider in the room, which I think is a merit to him.
Thank you. Uh, his. The composite score, like I said, of all cigars was an 8. 0. The outliers are two people really, um, [01:24:00] BAM had an 8. 3 composite for the year on all cigars. So three points higher. And Senator was a 7. 9. Whoa. Yeah. And Puba actually was a 7. 8. So Puba and Senator right there. Are we really surprised?
Who's the low? Puba and Senator were the lowest 7. 8, 7. 9. And then in Cuban cigars, they're both very salty people. They are, and they sit next to each other. Something happens over here. It's called osmosis,
**Senator:** you know, refined palates. Oh,
**Gizmo:** wow. And in Cuban cigars, this one's wild. The composite score for the group was an 8.
3. Bam! An 8.6 and UBA was almost 10 points higher at five points higher. Excuse me, UBA was almost five points higher at an 8.8 composite. I love cigars this year. I love you for that. UBA cubit cigars. Okay. You're very enthusiastic about Cuba. It's like, yes,
**Pagoda:** okay, yeah, I got it. Yeah, no,
**Gizmo:** I'm down. All right.
And then in New Worlds de composite. Was a 7. 9 and the most generous grader there was BAM of course with an 8. [01:25:00] 2.
**Pagoda:** But I love these calculations.
**Gizmo:** But this is,
**Grinder:** this is good because like, I'm not sure if I'm glad it's not a bad thing. This is the collective. Yeah. You know, it's composite
**Gizmo:** score. And what's nice about this is that the listener, like BAM was saying earlier, a listener can track along with whichever pallet or couple pallets aligns with their own, and they can track that data on our website.
So if your pallet is like BAMs or is a little tougher of a greater, like Senator Impuba. You know, you can follow along and, and go through the list and see who's pallet, you know, and, and how we're rating.
**Bam Bam:** But what's interesting is the composite score always makes sense. It always makes sense. At the end of every evening, it
**Grinder:** works.
And I think it's, I think it's, as we, as we reflect on CA's top 10 cigars, you know, that is influenced by so many other factors. This, we're not influenced by these factors. We smoke what we [01:26:00] smoke and we rate what we're, what we're tasting. And as a, as a listener, if you want to come to our, our rating for the year, maybe in, maybe in five years, we'll be the predominant, you know, ranking
**Gizmo:** for the year.
Who knows? I think they should fire the. CA's panel and hire us. I agree. The advertisers won't like that.
**Senator:** All right. I wasn't going to say it, but let's just acquire CA. There you go. Done. All
**Gizmo:** right. After all, I'm a Mac.
**Senator:** That's a personal venture. That's correct.
**Pagoda:** We've got some private equity friends. We'll call them.
**Gizmo:** We'll get the PE friends, guys on the
**Pagoda:** horn. That's right. Get them going. The PE people on the
**Gizmo:** horn. So boys, we're into the last third here of the Partagus 898 from Cuba. What's everybody thinking? So good. I don't want to be too
**Bam Bam:** enthusiastic.
**Gizmo:** Oh, come on. That's your role. That's your data. The data speaks.
It's still incredible for me. Yeah, I'm really, really loving this. I haven't had one of these in quite some time. You know, I'm going to have to be very, uh, disciplined to not reach for more. I mean, I
**Rooster:** thought it would pick up in
**Gizmo:** strength. It really hasn't. No, it's been pretty
**Bam Bam:** flaky. It's been [01:27:00] beautifully elegant from beginning to
**Senator:** end for me.
It hasn't picked up in strength, but I do think it's picked up a little bit in flavor in the sense that for me, the first two thirds were like very bready with all the notes that we've described. And the last third, like the bready notes have kind of dissipated. That's true. And I'm just getting more of like the traditional Partagas like DNA.
And I love that. So the final third for me is the best part of this cigar, right?
**Bam Bam:** You know, for me at this point, I'm like an inch and a half away. I'm getting pretty deep coffee and earth.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Yeah. The Armagnac is a wonderful pairing. And like we did on episode 100 where we also had two pairings, we've done it a few times in the past where we bring in champagne, but having the first half of the cigar.
With champagne and having the second half with this Armagnac, it really does create an interesting dance of flavor as you go through the cigar. You know, like you've kind of split the cigar into two. Dude, the
**Bam Bam:** champagne works. It works. That cleansing quality to it for me is the most attractive part of drinking a champagne with
**Grinder:** a cigar.
Champagne is my [01:28:00] favorite pairing with cigars now. I, I bought a case of, of Paul Roger. For the holidays that I'm looking forward to cracking, like I'm only going to drink it during the holidays and that's, that's what, that's my new tradition and it's so fantastic. Senator silently celebrating
**Senator:** right now.
But you know what? But you know what,
**Gizmo:** fam? It's so silent, but at the same time, it's so loud.
**Bam Bam:** I mean,
**Grinder:** it's, it's, it's something, it's something to take note. I mean, if you, if you enjoy. You know, all the wonderful flavors of cigar from any, any range from, from top to bottom, it seems to fit with all of them.
There's no, it's good. It spans the entire
**Senator:** spectrum. It's so true. I'm just so happy to hear it because you have to understand, look for, for any guy, especially that. Enjoy cigars and likes to pair it with some sort of drink or gal. No, no, I'm gonna I'm good This is intentionally I said guy Okay And the reason I said that for a woman who wants to pair a cigar with champagne No one's ever gonna bat an eye.
That's true. No [01:29:00] problem. Yeah, but truly for most men who are not in the know And don't really understand and appreciate everything that we are discussing about how champagne pairs perfectly with it. There's like this little bit of a stigma. There's like, why would you pair a champagne? Like that's not a man's trait.
You know, it just is not, there's this weird stigma. Yeah. There's a hesitation.
**Bam Bam:** There is more
**Pagoda:** and more. So in the U S I would argue for sure. Not
**Senator:** in Europe at all. You know, it's a U S it's a
**Pagoda:** U S thing. It's a great point in Europe. It particularly in the UK, uh, they'll, they'll, they'll, you know, they'll drink over in London.
They'll, they'll drink champagne with breakfast with like Churchill. Yeah, precisely. And, and, and so I think over here in the, in the U S champagne is just kind of associated with. Oh, my grandmother wants champagne and a mimosa with brunch. My, my [01:30:00] girlfriend or my wife likes, uh, like champagne or something in, or I'll buy the bottle because it's a romantic occasion and that's when you would drink champagne.
Champagne, uh, there's different types and it's really versatile. And I think that try the right kind and there's lots of bad champagne. So, so, you know, people have like, like lots of bad experiences with it. It's, it's at a wedding, you know, they come out of the catering hall with these fluted glasses, all the every, you know, and they walk out with it and they greet you with it.
And you're kind of like. This is shit. Like, I don't like champagne. Like, so the experience, it's like glorified
**Gizmo:** Sprite,
**Pagoda:** right? Yeah, exactly. And so you're getting like introduced to this when you're young or whenever, and you're like awful. Like, like who would
**Gizmo:** drink
**Senator:** this crap? And then people say like, Oh, I have such a bad hangover from champagne.
It's like, you're not even drinking real champagne. You're drinking like Frigidaire. Yeah. [01:31:00] Like shitty sparkling. That has so much right. There's so much added residual sugar. Of course, you're going to feel like shit the next morning. Like true champagne, one of my favorite, um, just dinners period. I was, this is a random story, but it just came to mind.
I was in, um, New Orleans around Bastille Day, which is a huge, like French holiday. And the, um, owner of this famous restaurant, New Orleans Galatoire's amazing place. Uh, every year he shuts down the restaurant on Bastille Day and he has a private dinner just for like his friends, close friends and family.
and I was down there shooting, um, a bunch of advertising for a client and, uh, he was involved, uh, the owner of this restaurant. And so he had invited us to his Bastille Day dinner and he flew in from France, this like very famous, uh, champagne maker. And it was like a 10 course meal with every course had a different champagne.
Oh my goodness. I mean, 10 different sh it was absurd. You must have been [01:32:00] in heaven. Oh, I was, it was literally, that's one of the best meals I've ever had. Just like the pairings. And the first thing out of this guy's mouth, this French, uh, champagne maker. He's got his accent that I won't even try to imitate and he goes, Oh, please try to imitate it.
No, no, no. Please. And he goes, he goes, you know, the best thing about French champagne. He says, we're going to drink 10 champagnes tonight and you will have no hangover. He says, because when you enjoy a quality champagne, you'll never experience that. That's awesome. And I'm listening to this like, that's bullshit.
I'm going to have 10 glasses of champagne. I'm going to be hammered and I'm not going to feel great in the morning. And I woke up and I was like, I feel amazing. And it was just, you know, that was earlier in my life where. I had had real good champagne, but also plenty of garbage that I'm sitting there trying to reconcile.
What do I make of this category? And when you start to figure out the good stuff, and again, you don't have to spend an arm and a leg for it. Um, it's, it's just game changing, honestly. It just for every, whether you're not even smoking a cigar and you're at dinner and you love seafood [01:33:00] and you're ordering, you know, shrimp cocktail or oysters or anything like that.
The best thing you're going to pair with that is going to be a glass of champagne. Just same way, like with a cigar that you don't want it to overpower, you want it to cleanse your palate, be able to really appreciate the nuance flavor profile that you're getting. It's perfect for that. So I grinder, you've literally made my night.
Saying that and I'm
**Gizmo:** just so happy to see that movie. The Grinch where his heart grows, you
**Bam Bam:** know, and it's reflected in his ratings,
**Gizmo:** right? He's the great. I'm sorry. The lizard who uses the Grinch, uh,
**Senator:** uh,
**Gizmo:** what are the gizmo all the
**Senator:** time? So there's And who doesn't like Christmas trees. So it gives us the grid and he steals
**Bam Bam:** presents.
**Pagoda:** Well, you know, the other challenge was champagne too. I think for the cigar smoker is sometimes it's a sedentary or, or you want one glass of scotch or two glasses of [01:34:00] scotch. And, and, and that can get, you know, two healthy pours can get you through a cigar if you, if you take your time, you know, who wants to open.
Uh, a 60 bottled, are you going to drink a whole bottle of champagne on your own? So I've never
**Gizmo:** done that. Well,
**Pagoda:** I know, you know what I'm saying? I would
**Gizmo:** never do such a thing.
**Pagoda:** God bless you. Bless your heart. But, but, but you know, sometimes it's an invest. In other words, you pop, you open it. And generally speaking, generally speaking, you know, I could drink a half bottle of champagne and drive an 18 wheeler.
It's no problem. My point is, is that you're not, you know, people aren't opening that. Like you open the Scotch, you pour it. And I think that that's a rate limiting factor to some extent. It is
**Senator:** true. And it's a good point you bring up because. A great hack for this, to solve [01:35:00] for this problem, I got this as like a stocking stuffer years ago and I think I've mentioned this on probably many episodes ago, but literally on Amazon, you get these little like vacuum sealer, like this top that you put in the bottle.
Wine saver it's called. Yeah, and it comes with this little vacuum pump, it's literally like 10 15 bucks on Amazon, and I was skeptical at first, I'm like, I know, you usually use it for wine, to preserve it so it doesn't lose the flavor and get acidic and go bad. And I've tried it with champagne and I was so skeptical.
And I kid you not, you put this, it sucks all the air out of the bottle to preserve it. You just throw it in your fridge. You open that the next day, even two days later, you just hit the tab at the top. Let's the air out. And, um, it's still sparkly, perfectly
**Pagoda:** sparkly. Yeah. We should, we should talk about what the name of the products that we can order.
I'll
**Gizmo:** put it in the, I'll put it in the episode description for the listener. So they can go out and buy it. I have that as well. I've never used it for champagne, but it's so cheap and
**Senator:** it's so great. I have the same problem you're describing. Even when I'm hosting, obviously, as someone [01:36:00] who loves champagne, I'm always like, someone's over, are we
**Pagoda:** going to drink this?
Are we
**Senator:** going to finish it? Right. And then the problem is like, you know, I get a little overzealous and so everybody is well lubricated and it's like one person wants one more glass of champagne. And then I open another bottle and like, I've drank plenty at this point. I'm not going to finish it that night.
And then this used to happen where I'm like, great. I have like. Almost a full bottle of champagne that I'm, there's no way I'm going to consume it. How much I've had at this point. And it just goes to waste and it would just kill me. And now having this solution, it's amazing. I just pop in the fridge and I revisit
**Gizmo:** it the
**Pagoda:** next day or two.
We should put that in the thing, because I think that is a rate limiting factor. You can open a bottle of scotch. Have a little taste or, Oh, I got a little bit left in the cigar. I'm just going to pop off my drink. Well, with a bottle of champagne, you kind of feel like it's a commitment to
**Gizmo:** open. Yeah. And the other thing about champagne too, and obviously we do this as cigar smokers, but there's an element of the sharing and opening that bottle.
Like we did tonight. It makes it better when you're with other people sharing that spirit. You know, so there is that [01:37:00] celebratory nature to me with champagne that, you know, this is a great tool, but I just find it better when I'm with other folks,
**Pagoda:** of course, but you also want to be a little bit like Winston Churchill, who's just going to just drink champagne when he wants to drink fucking champagne
**Gizmo:** every day.
You know, the
**Senator:** celebration in
**Pagoda:** bed, right, right with breakfast with his eggs. In the bathroom.
**Gizmo:** So boys, before we get to our ratings and we have three to do tonight, actually, I wanted to throw out one more set of data points that celebrates our listeners and this amazing community we've built. Um, we had an incredible year with our listeners in 2023.
The emails have been fantastic. I share them with all the lizards. I send them around. It's. The volume of them has ramped up. Please keep sending your emails, comment on the show. Tell us what to smoke. Tell us what to drink. We had a 331% growth Wow. Of our listener base in 2023. Tremendous, incredible. Is just tremendous.
Incredible. Wow. So we're so happy to have all of our [01:38:00] listeners with us. Were in over 50 countries now listening on a weekly basis. Spectacular. The one thing I will say is we, Spotify actually sent us a note, uh, in the, the wrapped that we get each year as a, a podcaster. that we have a high level of very engaged listeners, which is really amazing to me that our listeners are going, they listen each week, they go back, they listen to our back catalog.
We have listeners who say they're on their fourth or fifth listen through of hall of all hundred and at this point, 13 some odd episodes. The engagement from our listeners, this passion that this community has for what we have here in the room with our, our greater listener community. We just have to celebrate that because it's really, really
**Senator:** incredible.
We do. And just, you know, what bring brought that to life for me very recently, we, we had a new member join our lounge who was a listener and It was so funny to me in the first time I'm meeting him, I'm sitting there with Gizmo and you know, we have [01:39:00] plenty of inside jokes that we share on this podcast that if you've listened all the way through, you would know, right?
It's like you're here in the room with us. And I couldn't believe I'm saying things to Gizmo that really only. The seven of us would know, or someone who's truly listened to this pod all the way through. And every single thing, it's like he, he was, it's like he's done the podcast with us. He knew every little inside joke.
I'm making a little dig at kids. He's making a little dig at me. He's chiming in and bringing up something from a prior episode and exactly what you're describing. It was just so cool to see, you know, we always talk about the listener being in the room with us. To actually have gotten to experience it recently.
The other night was just incredible. It's just love all our listeners out there.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, we have a, we have a really amazing thing in this community we've built. And what I love too, is hearing from other listeners who, you know, don't live near us and go to their lounge and they're forming their own community of lizards in their lounges.
And they're doing what we do. They're smoking the same thing, drinking the same thing and sharing that with each other. And that's just, it's tremendous. It's a beautiful [01:40:00] thing. So it's, it's really something that needs to be celebrated is just. How amazing our listeners are. And we're so happy to have you with us.
So I have two emails that we'll wrap up with, and then we'll get into our ratings first is from listener lizard Brooks. And he says, hi, lounge lizards. Hope this message finds you. Well, I'm a devoted listener hailing from sunny Santa Barbara, California. As you may know, we're blessed with near perfect cigar weather year round.
I've been immersed in the premium cigar world for about three years now. Thanks in part to my father being a daily smoker. I'm so envious of that. Yeah. I wish my dad smoked cigars. He's had an affinity for those dog rocket cheapies from cigars, international dog rocket. Since I can remember
dog rocket cheapies, always a lizard with a dig. That's, that's for you, Pagoda. That's a nod to you. I've been trying to nudge him toward premium sticks, but alas, he remains steadfast in his frugality. I wanted to take a moment to express. My genuine [01:41:00] appreciation for the lounge lizards podcast. Your show has become a weekly ritual for me.
And that word really caught me ritual because it is a ritual for us. You know, it's, it's, it's really an incredible thing. Your show has become a weekly ritual for me. And I eagerly anticipate each episode, especially your insight, insightful reviews on the cigars you choose. Which is almost identical to my palate, the witty banter and camaraderie are awesome.
And he goes on to share some cigars he wants to, uh, to have us try, which we're going to bring in. And he said, in closing, I want to express my gratitude for the dedication, creativity, and passion you infuse into each episode. Keep up the fantastic work, and I look forward to more enjoyable episodes in the future.
That's wonderful. That's incredible. That's excellent. That's awesome. That's awesome. It's nice
**Senator:** to hear someone say we're not naive school kids.
**Gizmo:** Very true. And I have one more for you from Lizard Sean. I know we mentioned him the other day. He had heard us talking about him on the podcast. And he said, you know, and he sent me a, [01:42:00] uh, like a happy crying emoji.
So, you know, I just wrapped up the latest pod as a tear trickled down my cheek. I forgot that I had sent that email to you guys that I had read as I was listening to the pod. I had had a bad day and on my way to the, on my way to the lounge after a really bad day at work without you guys, I would have just gone home and been in a really bad mood the rest of the evening.
Now I get to go and smoke a cigar, and talk to the guys at my lounge, and completely forget about my shitty day. You guys
**Bam Bam:** rock. You know, he echoes a lot of our sentiments. We all have tough days, tough weeks, tough months at work. This thing just makes you forget about everything. It's true. Get lost in a cloud of smoke.
That's all
**Gizmo:** you need to do. So I just wanted to share those two, kind of summing up the conversation around this amazing community. And we're very, very lucky, and we really, you know, we still love coming to do this. Yeah. All right, boys, it's time to move into our ratings. You guys ready to do the rating on the Dom Perignon Champagne from 2013?
Yes, sir. Bam Bam, you're up. These
**Bam Bam:** are all going to be very easy. That champagne's a 10. [01:43:00] Ooh.
**Gizmo:** Nice
**Bam Bam:** start, Bam. Yeah, you know, it's buttery and creamy on the finish. And like I said, I can smoke any cigar with a high quality champagne like this. Any cigar. And that's the utility in it. It's just incredible.
Grinder.
**Gizmo:** It's
**Grinder:** a
**Gizmo:** 10. Okay. Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** It had me at the first hello.
**Bam Bam:** Ten. Very romantic.
**Gizmo:** Senator. So,
**Senator:** I'm not gonna lie. I've been going back and forth. Oh boy. The whole night on this.
**Gizmo:** I
**Pagoda:** know it's not a Paul Roger.
**Senator:** Between a nine and a ten. And the reason I say that, my first experience with Dom, like I said, it was spectacular. Like if I could have asked someone to blend and make a champagne for me, that's what it would have been. And that was a 10. This is tough because when I took the first few sips, I was at a nine as it came [01:44:00] down in temperature, I was getting closer to 10.
I. I'm going to go with a nine, whoa, which is still a great score. And that is not to knock this bottle. It's just the standard for Dom Perignon is so high. It's such a credit to them, right? Like this were many other brands. I wouldn't be saying anything. I am right now. I think that there are other vintages out there that, and not crazy vintage.
I'm not talking about stuff from 20, 30 years ago, but. More recent that edge this a bit that would round up to a 10 for me and the price point is serious I mean to spend 250 on a bottle of champagne. You want it to be perfect and I For me this was so the the buttery Smooth silky delivery that's characteristic of every vintage of Dom That's what makes Dom Perignon Dom Perignon and that definitely delivers there.
It's the balance of flavors [01:45:00] I got, like, aggressive minerality and not, not much fruit, like. No. And I, I want a little bit because the vintage that I loved, and I really wish I remembered the year, it's within the last five years. I got, like, these, like, very faint floral and peach notes and. I don't like anything overly sweet, but it was just subtle and complex enough that it was like, just the perfect delivery.
It was like an LGC that like rooster would love, but like champagne. And I just wanted some more complexity from the. Sweeter side, not sweet, but sweeter in the sense that some of those fruit notes and that what I've had before would have given it to 10. So I'm going to be at a nine. And that means that this is, I think an excellent vintage, but I'm going to pursue other ones that I think might check that 10
**Bam Bam:** for me.
You know, you come, you're, you're entering into deep waters with your knowledge that most of us, I don't, I certainly don't have it. So I, I respect your
**Gizmo:** rating. So I actually thought that I was going to get yelled at. So I'm terribly [01:46:00] relieved.
**Bam Bam:** Like terribly relieved. Are you following someone's footsteps?
**Gizmo:** No, I actually had written down a nine even before we started the ratings on this.
It is a nine for me. I think that the reason why I'm going to give it a nine, I'm piggybacking on your flavor notes, I think it's amazing. I think it's excellent. Factoring in value, to Grindr's point, going out and buying that case of Paul Roger, The value there is tremendous. I mean, you can't beat that value.
So at 250 a bottle, chasing this aged, you know, the vintage here, it's just not for me. So I'm only going to drink this on very, very rare special occasions. It's not something that I'm going to go buy and reach for. And I'm very comfortable in nine. Like I said, I thought I was going to be the only one. Um, but that's absolutely perfect for me tonight.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stray from that a little bit. It delivers, the Dom Pérignon delivers. More of a buttery balanced note. I did [01:47:00] get more fruit out of it than Senator got. Um, I got, I thought it was fruit forward. Um, more than, than, than, than what he got out of it or maybe what you got out of it. Um, that's just what I got.
So for me, I thought it was balanced. I, I, I did get fruit. Um, I did get that sweetness and, and that butteriness. And to me, It, it, it delivered a really balanced experience. Um, you know, so I'm, I mean, I'm going to give it a, a, a, a, a non abashed 10. You know, I'm going to go there. I mean, if I had to split hairs, would it be a, you know, that would maybe be a different conversation, but I'm going to, you know, I'm rounding up a little bit.
Um, because, and I respect
**Gizmo:** the tense. I do too. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. I mean, I'm going to give it, but I mean, I'm not saying that like, it's a, you know, that there isn't anything maybe better out there, but, but for me, I, I [01:48:00] do diverge a little bit from, I got that. I got, I got, I got butter and I got that, that. That delivery that, you know, you kind of can't really replicate, it's tough to, it's a little bit tough to beat that probably under other vintages out there that may deliver an experience, but it's all personal.
So for me, it's a 10, uh, on the
**Gizmo:** dime. So that boys puts the formal liquor rating on the Dom Perignon at a 9. 7. Fantastic. That's a great score.
**Bam Bam:** Perfect story. You know, I, I tend not to factor in cost. Maybe I should, I am enthusiastic, but I, if I love something, I'm, I'm gonna go buy it and I'm gonna enjoy it.
Honestly, it, you don't, there aren't many things that you can buy for a few hundred dollars and have an incredible time with it. Yeah. So there just aren't That's exactly what I feel. Right. You know,
**Pagoda:** aren't '
**Gizmo:** cause the delta
**Pagoda:** walking into a dog, I'm looking, I'm looking at it like this, like the Delta that we were talking about.
The Delta is the brand. Correct. So, so the price Delta is the brand of Dom. So if you take that out [01:49:00] of the equation, this just delivers a more refined experience than your, your, your Paul Roger.
**Bam Bam:** And look, I love Paul Roger, but I don't get that buttery experience. But just
**Gizmo:** vintage Paul Roger,
**Senator:** non vintage Paul Roger.
Right,
**Pagoda:** right, right. Non, that's, that's what I'm saying. That's, that's what I'm saying. The non vintage Paul Roger. So. You know, um, uh, you know, for me, it was a 10, you know,
**Gizmo:** all right, boys, it's time to do the formal liquor rating now on our second pairing tonight, the Delord 25 year aged Armagnac Bam Bam, you're
**Bam Bam:** up.
Yeah, this is also a 10 for me, honestly, when I, as I take a sip, the aromatics are so powerful with vanilla and caramel. It's incredible. Yeah, and there aren't many spirits that I've experienced that with. This is a 10 for me. Grindr.
**Grinder:** It's um, so I've been, I didn't consume as much tonight, but it is delicious.
And um, the aroma, I spent a lot of time just sniffing it. [01:50:00] Yeah. It's so, it's so consuming and um, sweet and
**Bam Bam:** uh, Not overtly sweet though.
**Grinder:** Uh, and for, for me, it's a nine, uh, which I think is a good score. It's a great
**Gizmo:** score.
**Pagoda:** Pagoda. Yeah, for me, it's a nine. I've, you know, I've been debating between a nine and a ten, but my experience in, unfortunately, you know, I'm comparing with the Dom, right?
Because we're smoking the same cigar and now we're having You know, champagne, and then we're having the Armagnac, and, um, I just enjoyed my experience with the champagne a lot more, but I'm also a champagne drinker, so I don't know whether it's somewhat biased, uh, but, uh, if I were to continue smoking, and if you were to open both the bottles in front of me again, I would definitely head towards the champagne as opposed to the Armagnac, and, um, very, very pleasant.
By the way, I think if we were doing it independently, my score might have been different, um, but, uh, it's a nine for
**Gizmo:** me. Senator.
**Senator:** Uh, so the, the Armagnac for me was the star of the show. [01:51:00] It's a 10 all day. This is one of the most enjoyable spirits I've consumed this entire calendar year. It's not even close.
I would absolutely, and I will go pursue buying this bottle. It's different. I can't believe the price point. I mean, truly, if you said this is a 200 spirit, I'd believe it. It's that smooth. It's that refined. It's that robust. It's full flavored. I mean, it checks every box that you want out of a brandy, whether it's made in cognac or armagnac.
So for me, it's definitely a 10 and I'm just, this opens up. Pandora's box, because now I want to really go deep
**Gizmo:** into our deepened greed. So I'm exactly in the same place. I'm at a 10. I think this Armagnac is phenomenal. I think the price is phenomenal. It's something I'm going to pursue tomorrow. I'm going to figure out which bottle King Bam went to.
I'm going to go there tomorrow. There's none over there, unfortunately. Like, you know, and that's where not, not comparing the spirits, but you know, the Dom Perignon at a nine for me is something I'm just not. Even [01:52:00] thinking about going out and buying, I enjoyed the experience. It's not something I'm gonna look to repeat.
This Armagnac tonight, unbelievable for me. Unbelievable, like Puba said when he picked it up, completely blew him away. It, it, it, it, you know, what Senator just said flavor note wise, it was, he nailed it for me. It was perfect. Um, I am totally impressed. With this arm and yak at 25 years age at 86 bucks. Yeah, it's a
**Bam Bam:** 10 and I know poop has got to do a rating, but what's crazy about this is this would be incredible during the holidays, but it's incredible every single day year round.
Yeah,
**Gizmo:** right. Absolutely. Yeah. Puba.
**Pagoda:** There's a richness to it. And like a viscosity to this makes it like I can drink multiple, it's, it's rich in flavor and it's deep in flavor and, uh, but it's balanced. There's a lot of merit to this and I'm just trying to figure out where it slots. I mean, like, I feel like I can drink [01:53:00] more volume or more have multiple glasses of like Remy.
Where this is feels like more of an after dinner drink to me.
**Gizmo:** I mean, this is
**Senator:** 25 years age. We'd say the same about a 20. I mean, Balvenie 21. It's
**Gizmo:** true.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. I think I'm at a 10 because of what it stands for. Um, yeah, it's, it is. I mean, but it slots in for me in a different spot than like in every, like, like a Remy or an everyday kind of Cognac would.
I wouldn't, I don't see myself drinking this like multiple glasses of it, I guess. Um, maybe that's,
**Gizmo:** I
**Senator:** mean, let's be honest. We did Remy XO. I'm not going to drink Remy XO every day, but I still gave it
**Gizmo:** a 10.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Yeah. So I, you know, and I'm just thinking about it. I'm just trying to be, you know, prescriptive in the, in the review.
I'm going to give it a 10 because of what it stands for. [01:54:00] It it's, it's an after dinner drink for me. It's something I'm going to have one, maybe two. Um, we're like, I feel like I could drink, you know, a Remy VSOP. I could, I could, I could have four easily. Um, not that this was aggressive or anything like that.
It's just that there's a richness to it and the depth to it. I give it a 10 all day. It's a, it's really an interesting, um, this arm and neck is really something interesting. I'm going to pursue more of it. Um, very pleased. I just had to think about it for a minute.
**Gizmo:** So the formal liquor rating boys. Sorry for
**Pagoda:** being so protracted in my analysis.
**Bam Bam:** Not at all.
**Gizmo:** That's fine. Yeah. So the formal liquor rating boys on the Delord 25 years aged Armagnac tonight is a 9. 7 right in line. Very good. With the Dom Perignon Champagne. Uh, wow. And now it is time to move [01:55:00] in to the formal lizard rating for this awful cigar. On the Partigas 898. Rooster, you're up. So the
**Rooster:** 898 is one of my favorite cigars.
I mean, I love the cigar. I don't reach for it often enough. It's just the price and so hard to get. Um, I'm going to give this a nine. Having said that, I've had some older eight nine eights. I think they do need a, they do need some age. So older boxes, I think just the flavor is just wonderful. But this cigar also delivered, you know, there was leather, there was a little bit of spice, there was the bready note and sourdough notes.
And it was, it was a great cigar. So overall, and it, I didn't have any draw issues, burn issues, my combustion was great. So I'm going to give it a
**Gizmo:** nine.
**Pagoda:** Puba. It's a nine. Uh, for me, it's been a nine the whole way through. I just don't, it's, it doesn't reach that kind of level. [01:56:00] Um, for me, uh, it, the combustion issues and the draw issues is just a nonstarter.
If I can't get enough smoke into, into my mouth, even with You know, I, I, I, I've got another one because the first one was too tight. So for me, um, performance wise, it could do a lot better. I think if the blend is great, the taste is great. The performance took it down a notch, uh, for me. So it's a nine.
**Gizmo:** So I'm in, I'm in the same camp, you know, I wish this was going to be a 10 tonight.
You know, I, I think like Rooster said, I think this is a cigar that does need more than four years of age. I think it's something that at six, eight, ten years, it, it starts to reach that next level of, of excellent Cuban tobacco, which was certainly my reference point coming in tonight. This 2020 box was really good.
You know, it smoked really well. You know, unfortunately, like you said, it's so hard to get the price now is very, very high. [01:57:00] It's something that you don't reach for very often. And the value that it provided tonight to Puba's point, not a lot of, you know, the draw was resistant, not a lot of smoke output. It was still pleasurable for me, but it certainly was not the best of the best.
Like I was hoping it to be. So I am. A slight bit disappointed giving it a nine tonight, but that's the right rating. Yeah. I
**Rooster:** mean, I think we were a bit spoiled because having had some older eight, nine, eight on your porch and I compare it to that. And then, you know, you realize like, okay, this is a great cigar, but we have had a better,
**Pagoda:** but I would say, I will say one caveat, the age is not the only thing, it's the construction.
**Gizmo:** Senator, it's a
**Senator:** nine for me for all the reasons that have been stated, but you know, Rooster's point about we've been spoiled and, and had other years for me, the nine is not just because I've had other years. It's for what Puba described. I mean, honestly, I I've, I've had several eight, nine eights, and many of them have had a very tight draw where like Puba described, you just can't get [01:58:00] as much smoke as you want out of that cigar.
And at the price point you, you expect it to be able to do that. Much more consistently than it does and, um, it detracts from the experience. So a nine is still an amazing score. I mean, the flavor profile is awesome. With age, it definitely gets better. It gets fuller. It's more concentrated and rich, but the, the, honestly, just the construction is, is the biggest challenge for why right now it's a nine for me.
**Pagoda:** Uh, it's a nine for me. Uh, and, but I think Roos has really spoiled me. I think from, from, uh, you know, my first experience on the deck, uh, having that eight, nine, eight, that was hands down 10. Then we've had it a couple of other times. Those were 10s. Uh, you know, I came in so excited to be smoking the eight, nine, eight, because it is one of my favorite cigars.
Not that I've had many of them, but you know, when you have these cigars, which are few and you kind of. idealized and you're looking and you really want to experience them and you want to really enjoy them. [01:59:00] I was coming in seeking that experience. That's a great point. And you know, my first cigar was a dud, thanks Rooster, he, you know, he hooked me up with another one and which was fantastic and brought a smile on my face and experience all the flavors and, um, but you know, um, considering just the overall experience, it's a nine for me.
**Grinder:** Grindr. I'm not gonna beat a dead horse. It's a nine for me, for all the reasons cited. Bam
**Bam Bam:** Bam. So I, I love the way Pagoda put it, idolize. I do idolize the cigar because it's so difficult to attain and, you know, all of you speak incredibly about the cigar. I've only had 40s. This is my fourth ever. I've never had a draw issue.
None were ever plugged. The first two inches on this for me was a 10 and it dissipated and it kind of leveled out and settled in. I am at a nine. I don't think that's a demerit. I think that's an elite score for this cigar. And I think it's, it's an incredible experience. It's like,
**Gizmo:** it's like a rass.[02:00:00]
**Pagoda:** You're throwing me off, man. You know, my, my thing for me, but for me, like what's disappointing is the blend is super. Yeah, it's super, the flavor profile of the cigar is super and it's like when it's good, I think to what Pagoda was saying and what everyone agrees with here in the commentary is that like when it's, if it, if it would just draw the right way, like if it would perform in the way it's should perform, like the score would be.
Uh, higher, there'd be more tens in the room. That's, that's the frustrating thing because it's like everything's there, but the performance just, honestly, the performance was subpar. I've
**Gizmo:** never had that problem. Exactly. So I really haven't. I've had a few
**Rooster:** boxes. Like I have not had a single plug, nine, eight, Lucy's on the other hand, plenty, these,
**Gizmo:** these, these
**Pagoda:** weren't [02:01:00] plugged.
They were.
**Rooster:** They were tight. They were really tight, right? I mean, tight that you couldn't even
**Gizmo:** enjoy a cigar. So maybe, maybe
**Pagoda:** that's, maybe that's, you could define it as pug, but whatever you want to call it, right? It's disappointing. It's just because everything is there. All the ingredients is there. And it's like, it's like a great piece of steak.
And you just, you, you, you cooked it to medium plus or something. Do you know what I mean? Like, like, you know, and you're just going, God damn it. Yep. You know, all this, it tastes, everything's there, but you just fucked it up. And you
**Gizmo:** know, I don't even mean like a cigar. Rating a nine and us having this disappointed conversation about a rating of a nine tells you what our expectation and previous experiences with the cigar.
**Bam Bam:** And I think Pagoda nailed it on hand. We idolize, this is an ideal cigar that we want and we pursue. A nine is still an incredible score. Right. [02:02:00] And
**Grinder:** it
**Senator:** just tells you how incredible this cigar is. Right. That we're upset that we're giving it a nine. I don't think there's ever been a cigar that we reviewed where we gave it a nine and said, man, it really just should have gotten that 10.
It's that elitist cigar that we know it can hit that 10. It's
**Pagoda:** overcooked Wagyu.
It's just kind of like, you're like, dude, oh, you're so close.
**Bam Bam:** You hit it on the nail. That's the best.
**Grinder:** That is a
**Bam Bam:** great analogy. Honestly, the three of you, like Pagoda, Senator, and Puba, you got the way the commentary is so accurate about the cigar. We want it to be a 10. The desires. It's
**Pagoda:** there though. It is, dude.
Yeah. And I
**Gizmo:** know. The blend is there. Yeah. It also kills you because when we bought these boxes about four, three years ago, four years ago, five
**Rooster:** years ago, we paid
**Gizmo:** like 500 for those. I paid more. Okay. Yeah. Because I bought an earlier, but if you buy them now
**Rooster:** and you're paying wages,
**Gizmo:** you know, over 1, 000 for a, for a fresh box, 1100 [02:03:00] bucks.
And then you're going
**Rooster:** to get like half of them perform. Well, I mean, that's, that's a problem
**Gizmo:** that, that, that, yeah. The former Lizard Rating Boys is a flat 9. 0 on the Partagus 898, which is elite for the first time, a highly disappointing score in the room tonight. Well, no,
**Pagoda:** it shouldn't be that because it's a better cigar than that.
It says
**Gizmo:** a lot about the cigar. So let's do some comparing on our three ratings tonight. We'll start with the champagne. We've actually only rated two other champagnes on the podcast. We've drank more than that, but we've only rated two of them. How drunk were we that
**Senator:** we've only rated two champagnes? We've had a lot
**Gizmo:** more than two.
The Vilmar and Sea Champagne got an 8. 7, and the Paul Roger Brut Reserve 2013 got a 10. 0. So it's like, we haven't done
**Pagoda:** Bollinger.
**Gizmo:** We haven't done Bollinger? We did it. We didn't rate it. Interesting. Oh, that's a crime. It is.
**Bam Bam:** That's a, that was an excellent champagne.
**Grinder:** I guess we'll have to
**Pagoda:** drink it again, guys.
Cause that's like a whole different animal. That's like a whole [02:04:00] different
**Gizmo:** animal. And then on the Armagnac, we did the, hold on. We didn't rate
**Senator:** the Paul Roger vintage.
**Gizmo:** We did. It got a 10. It got a 10. So we
**Senator:** haven't rated the regular
**Gizmo:** non vintage? No. We did not rate the regular. How is that possible? Because we drank it, we never rated it.
It's the MC's fault.
**Pagoda:** It's bad. It's bababooey. It's bad production. Bad podcast management.
**Gizmo:** Do your job!
So on the Armagnac at a 9. foo high. I'm not even acknowledging the, uh, the Dartigalong XO got a 9. 0 on episode 92. So this was quite a bit better than that from a rating standpoint. And then on the cigar, I want to compare it to the other eight Partagus cigars that we've done on the podcast is day one, episode one.
We did the Maduro number one. That was an [02:05:00] 8. 7. The New Year's Eve episode two years ago, if you can believe it, we did the Partagas series D number four, which got a 9. 2 on episode 14, the Culebra episode. If you remember how amazing that was, we got it. We gave the Culebras a 9. 3, which was a huge shock. In fairness, we were schoolchildren.
That's true. Excited school, naive schoolchildren. Uh, the Partagas short from episode 16 got an 8. 0. Episode 36, the series P number two, 8. 7. The Partagus Lusitanius was a huge disappointment with Rob Ila on episode 56. Got a flat 8. 0. The Corona's Gortys Anahatos on episode 64 was a 9. 7. That was an excellent cigar.
And then finally on episode 82, the series E number two was a 9. 3. So this is the first Partagus in a while. Rating at a 9. 0 kind of falls in the middle of the
**Pagoda:** pack. Surprising because an E2, based on tonight's [02:06:00] experience, blows the doors. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** and rated 3, you know, rated 3
**Pagoda:** points higher. Yeah, points in time, you
**Gizmo:** know.
So boys, another year done, we're on to 2024. Bring it on, baby. We had two pairings. The Dom Perignon Champagne from 2013 got a 9. 7. And matching that at a 9. 7 was the Delore 25 year aged Armagnac. And the Partagas 898 from Cuba got a flat 9. 0. Great night, guys. Great conversation and another great year.
Thanks so much to our listeners out there and, uh, we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod. com. That's lounge lizards pod. com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
If you have any comments, questions. If you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking. Email us [02:07:00] hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pop. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.