059 | Stephen Myers | How to Build Demand Bar by Bar | Dynamic Beverage Consultants

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

In Episode 59, I continued the chat with Stephen Myers, from Ep. 58. He is the Founder of Dynamic Beverage Consultants. He is also one of the Originals at Ilegal Mezcal. We dived into the crucial aspects of launching a new brand in the (US) market and how to avoid expensive mistakes. I hope you will enjoy our chat.

Time Stamps

0:00 Intro

0:34 Your First 1,000 Pounds

4:00 Building Presence In The Trade

8:22 Being Relevant

14:35 Portfolio Strategies, One Bar

17:11 Portfolio Strategies, Many Bars

20:51 Independent Vs Chains

24:17 Be Careful What You Wish For

29:26 Last Thoughts On Entrepreneurship

34:15 Last Thoughts

About The Host: Chris Maffeo

About The Guest: Stephen Myers

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Stephen Myers

Dynamic Beverage Consultants | Ex Ilegal Mezcal | Ex Mr. Black

What is MAFFEO DRINKS?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

Beyond episodes: advisory for leadership teams, subscription with episode deep dives and principles to navigate your own reality.

Beer, wine, spirits, Low and non-alcoholic.

Bottom-up Insights & Episode Deep Dives at https://maffeodrinks.com

Welcome to the Mafair Drinks
Podcast.

I'm your host Chris Mafail in
episode 59.

I continue the conversation with
Steven Myers from episode 58.

I hope you will enjoy our chat.
One last thing, if you enjoyed

this podcast you will also like
the Mafair Drinks guides.

You can subscribe free or paid
on myfairdrinks.com And this is

the because it it brings me back
to an to a question I wanted to

ask you which is a struggle that
I'm having sometimes with brand

owners is that is about where do
you put your money if you've got

1000 lbs thousand dollars where
do you invest them know because

sometimes like people listening
to our conversation think like

come on guys you know like I
cannot be going out to bars

everyday sitting at the bar or
doing a drink and some people

say they don't have time since
some people say it's too slow.

Some people say I haven't got
the money to pay 20 bucks for a

for a cocktail at the time but
but for me it's about like OK

prioritize what you should spend
time and resources on now.

So I would like to hear your
view on this topic.

I'm a big proponent of liquid on
lips.

You may love it.
Branding might be great, but if

people don't like the product,
it's not going to sell.

So get liquid on lips, do
tastings, do presentations.

You do have to pop into a bar
every now and again.

You don't have to buy $1920
cocktails every night, but there

are certain learnings that you
get from that.

You need to get the liquid on
lips and get feedback from

people and and introduce it that
way.

Obviously not spend all the
money on, but definitely have it

as as part of your arsenal and
allocate stock or funds to to

doing that.
Sometimes like it.

It's funny because I hear brand
owners or you know, managers

saying saying that about the
money aspect of it.

But then maybe they'd throw a
huge party that cost 10 times

more than a month of going out.
They think of a training of a

bar training as a very expensive
thing.

I mean, you can order tacos and
pizzas, take away.

I mean, you're a founder, you
know, people don't expect from

you, you know, millions and they
don't expect to you a perfect

agency executed dinner doesn't
have to be, you know, throwing

cartoons of pizza on the couch.
But sometimes it can be also

dangerous on how you sell
yourself.

Because I, I, I see a lot of
brands that try to punch above

their weight.
So they actually pretending they

are bigger than they are, Then
if they pretend to, well you

know then people are going to
ask you resources that you will

not have.
Exactly.

Yeah.
So very big one there is and I

agree 100% is managing
expectations and that's where

you can say, look, I will
support you as best I can as a

new to market, small brand.
And there's lots of things you

can do.
You can do staff trainings.

You can you can pop in for a
happy hour drinking.

You don't have to drink your own
stuff every time or you have a

beer or you do sort of something
with the team.

Like there's there's loads of
things that you as a brand can

do as opposed to having to to
run a card or yeah operate sort

of like a a large multinational
brand.

The the good accounts and and
the good partners don't

understand that and if they if
they're good at their business

then they they know how to
engage with different tiers of

of brands right.
Sort of the way they work with

the global gin brand is going to
be very very different to

someone who is who is making a
liqueur in the city that they're

in.
By all means punch above your

weight look like you're bigger
than you are but that just means

you're you're working really
hard.

You just don't sort of wave the
imaginary checkbook around.

Christians don't have it.
Let let's dive into the on trade

bottom up journey.
All big companies have got these

things like you want to be build
presents in the back bar, the

beverage menu, the cocktail menu
and so on.

But then everybody's like, yeah,
but then how do I do it?

I know the theory.
Now tell me how to do it,

because I don't know how to do
it, you know?

It's creating those strategic
partnerships.

So you put yourself in the
accounts shoes, find out what

they, what they want as a
business sort of what's what's

their MO, what, what moves the
needle for them from a obviously

a financial standpoint but also
from a creative standpoint.

There's a lot of creative folks
and and romantic folks in the

F&B world.
If you understand what their

motives are then you can better
fit and work with them.

I I get that you need to have a
balance between sort of menus

and points of distribution, but
especially for for new to market

brands, I would prefer to sell
sort of 10 cases to 10 accounts,

right, rather than one case to
sort of 100 accounts, right.

You go narrow and deep, you
build the relationship, you

build the velocity, you get
tangible results like selling

into 100 bars that that is the
same action 100 times And yes

you will get better at that
initial sale, but selling to 1

bar 10 times it means you get
your initial sale.

The second one is usually a
little bit harder than the first

one.
So you get learning from that,

you get the third one by this
point you sort of you're not

part of the furniture but you're
part of the program.

And so you get all these
different learnings about, OK,

this is how a long term
relationship with with an

account goes.
So that in the future when when

I get to my 5th order with a
different account and there's

some issues or the something's
happening, I've been there

before rather than oh, I've only
ever sold it into one place one

time.
You become that strategic

partner sort of you're sticky.
You obviously do all the all the

education that you can, whether
it's a proper staff training or

whether it's 5 minutes before
lineup just get there.

I mean you you ideally want to
get to the point where they go,

Steve, my guys love you, they
know the brand, you're coming on

the next menu.
Your price point, for example,

may mean that you're not in the
well, but you're the brand that

everybody refers to and you're
fantastic and then you can just

pop in and it's more of a
maintenance thing rather than a

than a building thing.
And then you go and do it at the

next one.
Less is more when it comes to

finding those those key
accounts.

And it may be that you have sort
of one restaurant and one dive

bar and one fast casual and one
cocktail bar and how you work

with them is all very, very
different.

But sort of building a strategic
relationship within within the

categories of on premise is good
too.

And and this is also like going
back to what we were saying

before about the target occasion
because in order to to drive

those 10 cases to that bar, it
means that there is a relevant

occasion, there is a relevance
there in that bar so that your

product will be sold easily to
people because they may be able

to switch it from another brand
or I mean today for example, I

was, I was in an American bar,
you know with doing burgers.

I wouldn't go there with Apero
Spritz how many people are

drinking up rose breeds having
burger in an American bar with

country music, you know there's
no relevance.

So of course at scale there is
some relevance, you know because

then when a brand gets so big,
it's so it's ubiquitous and it

can be everywhere, but it's not
a priority.

So now we're talking about
moving the first steps in the

city and you need to be able to
be relevant to to your brand to

that particular category.
So that that owner is not going

to say Jude, you know, I'm not
going to sell spritzes here?

Or if if a competitor comes
along who's a couple of bucks

cheaper or something, they're
not going to just trade you out

because you have the
relationship and and the support

and you understand where they're
coming from and they're willing

to sort of not trade you out
before for better for the

financial.
Option.

Yeah, yeah.
And I was talking to Maurice

Doyle, one of the earlier
episodes, and he was talking

about love and money.
You have to be emotionally

relevant.
You know, Paul Letko was was

always saying this, you know,
like you need to be emotionally,

strategically or financially
relevant to that account.

It could be that you are very
expensive.

You don't make that much money
for that bar, but you are in a

category that it may be trending
and that guy needs.

Maybe you are launching mezcal
and he doesn't have any agave

spirits there or maybe he has
some dusty, you know, old

tequila brand and he wants to
premiumize that.

No, no.
And it's also about like going

back to what we were discussing
before about you.

You never know who you have in
front of you.

It's so it's also like don't
judge the book by its cover.

No, it's, you know, it could be
that you're not there yet.

But then you are starting to
talk about, you know, like maybe

they want to go into, I don't
know, knowing low, they want to

go into a galler, you know,
maybe they don't have anything

now.
So you would discard it if you

if you went into a bar and say,
OK, this guy's got one tequila

and it's, you know, on the 3rd
row, top left.

I'm not going to focus on this
one.

But then maybe by talking to
them then maybe they are lining

up Mexican Food Wednesdays and
they won't really pimp up the

the agave section because they
heard that it's trending, you

know, So you need to be able to
get the nuances and and read

them the environment now on
what's on, what's happening

there.
I'm sure like you, like every

for for decades now, everybody.
You walk in, you scan the back

bar, you have a look at the menu
and you go, OK, so this is, oh,

it's almost like this is the
field of play.

And then that sort of educates
you as to again sort of how you,

how you talk to them, what
you're talking about, try and

understand like you said sort of
their their emotional and their

and their financial motives.
Yeah.

And it it could even be like
like a kind of like a blue ocean

strategy now that you go into a
bar that nobody's really

focusing on competitor wise
because they don't smell the

opportunity.
But then when you speak to the

guy, maybe this guy is selling
wines and beers and just have a

couple of bottle of spirits just
to have them, you know.

But then if you actually explain
it to him and then he say why

don't you have a a nice cocktail
program for the start of the

evening.
And I will help you develop a

line of cocktails that are very
basic that anybody can do.

You know, some highballs, some
very basic stuff that you know,

even your basic bartender that
you're employing that is kind of

like a waiter slash bartender is
not really a bartender can

actually do.
And then when you start to show

them, like, what brings into the
cashier, you know, then all of a

sudden it's like, OK, let me
think about that.

If you can successfully be one
of one rather than one of many,

like, we're talking about agave,
right?

So obviously there's a lot of,
say, Latin and Mexican

restaurants.
Do you want to be 1 bottle of

agave in a 15 cocktail menu list
that are all agave and three

shelves on the back bar all of
agave?

Or do you want to get into
another restaurant that like you

said, doesn't really have a big
presence?

For example, the Margaritas is
the most consumed cocktail in

the US.
If you can help them make an

amazing Margarita with your
product, you are one of one and

you're doing particularly well
and you're rounding out the

beverage program instead of all
the other knock on effects that

it has.
Rather than being one of many in

a in like a traditional, let's
say Mexican place, yeah.

No, I I love that.
And I and I I remember, like,

for example, like I'm a big fan
of classic cocktails and just

making a little a little twist
there.

No.
Without inventing like some

crazy stuff.
No.

I remember when I was in New
York last time and I was at the

Nomad and I order a Negroni.
And then the bartender asked me,

I was like, have you ever tried
mescal?

I was like, no, actually I
haven't.

And he said, have you ever tried
the mescal Negroni?

I was like, no idea.
I was like, you know, let's try

it.
And since I tried it there, then

it has become for many years my
go to cocktail, you know?

And then I I explained it to all
my friends and it became like a

thing within my circle now.
But you could go to an Italian

restaurant with a mescal brand
and actually help them to do a

great mescal Negroni, because
they are already selling a lot

of Negronis there.
You can either do, let's say

what the strategy you were
saying, you know, that's like

they don't have a Margarita.
And you can help them build that

Margarita because then it will
sell or you tap into a best

selling cocktail there and you
do a twist to it so that they

can trade up their consumer to
maybe they can charge them a

little bit more but actually
give them a different kind of

experience and they will stick.
You know, they will keep the

Negron in their offering.
But then I will have a mascal

Negroni or a or a Boulevardier.
Or you can do Scotch with Irish

whiskey, with bourbon, with, you
know, like you can play with all

these things now.
And sometimes we over complicate

things with like, oh, I need to
create my drink strategy and I I

need to create a cocktail.
And then I go to an agency and I

briefed them and can you make a
cocktail for me?

And and all of a sudden is like
dollars and dollars pence in a

useless manner.
It might be an amazing cocktail,

but it's only using 1/4 ounce of
your product.

That's a lot of quarter ounces
to make a a case's worth of

sales.
The knock on there is if you

have really good simple
cocktails that then sort of

helps govern your off premise
strategy now, right?

You don't want to give an overly
complicated cocktail to someone

who's just bought a bottle of
your product at the liquor

store, because they won't be
able.

To execute now.
Oh, and if they do, then they

probably won't be able to
execute it as well as in their

mind they should have, or as
good as they had it at a bar.

Last time?
Absolutely, absolutely.

Make it make it simple and
enjoyable because you know that

sort of people, people do all
sorts of crazy things when they

start mixing at home.
So as you can sort of guide

them, guide them to making good
balanced drinks, then I'll have

a second one.
Building on what you were saying

before about the quarter rounds,
it could even be a way of doing

it in a way that, for example,
if it's a cool account then

being there with your brand with
1/4 ounce, then it could be a

good strategy as long as you are
using it for PR purposes, you

know, because then you'd like,
oh, we are on the menu, you

know, they even mention our
brand.

Then you take that menu and you
go to a more average bar and

then you actually say you know
with them you pitch being the

main part of the cocktail rather
than you know the quarter Oz,

you know and then all of a
sudden it'd be.

So it's it's all about these
iterations that we were talking

about earlier now you know, do
this iteration play around and

understand what's the foot in
the door.

Now when I sell a portfolio of
brands, for example here in

Prague, you know I'm always
talking about I don't go there

with the particular product.
You know, I've got a portfolio.

And then if I if I know that I
want that outlet because I need

it for PR purposes, I need it
because I want to be on their

menu and so on, then all of a
sudden I start to listen to them

and understand, OK, they are
hooked on Scotch, you know,

blended, they have a contract,
gene whatever.

But maybe they will maybe open
on rum, then maybe open on vodka

or they maybe, you know, so it's
just like try to put the foot in

the door with a brand.
You know, if you're selling a

portfolio with the brand that
you can get in even if it's like

1/4 of an ounce, and then you
build up from there because the

foot is in the door now, you
know, And now you're started to

establish there's the
relationship.

And then in next year, when they
do the menu, then all of a

sudden it will be more like, OK,
oh, actually, you said that you

also have a Scotch in your
portfolio, right?

Yes.
Oh, we're looking for a Scotch

for, you know, for a new
cocktail.

And actually, you know, we're
not working with that company

anymore.
So what about having it on the

cocktail menu?
Exactly.

And that's that's sort of the
thought process when when you

build your account universe,
right, you're going to be in

different ones and you will have
your, your Halo accounts where

they get dropped into the PR
piece, your marky or your

Unicorn or whatever it is, which
is that name account that does

epic volume.
And then you have accounts that

just just love the product and
burn through it and they just

run their business and they're
great.

You have different reasonings
for different accounts and

that's that builds the universe.
That reminds me when I when I

started selling as an on trade
guy in Rome like 20 something

years ago and and we used to
sell Internet advertising to

bars or restaurants you know to
the on trade in a time where

people didn't have e-mail
addresses they didn't have a

website, they didn't you know it
was just like the web it was 0.5

it wasn't even like one point O
and I remember like then we we

created a selling story for each
category.

You know we had the best club in
Rome, the best Italian

restaurant, the best pizzeria,
the best, you know like all the

best places.
The PowerPoint presentation was

like under score pizzeria, under
score club, under score Beach

Club, you know, And then we're
always using that presentation

And then it was really funny
because sometimes like we had,

we richly had the best club in
you know they had international

DJs.
It wasn't like a boutique club.

And and I remember when I was
putting that up with our page,

then the guy was always like,
yeah, but that's a fake one.

No, like, that's just like a
dummy page.

And I was like, no, he's he's
our account.

I was like, you're joking, you
know?

I know him.
I call him.

I was like.
Call him, call him.

Yeah, and.
Then sometimes he was so funny

because sometimes they believe
me and sometimes they were

calling them in front of me as
I'm I'm sitting in front, you

know, with this guy from this
company like Crea.

What's your name again?
This one was not my my account.

It was, you know, I, an account
of Mike only and my friend.

I was just like, if he doesn't
remember my name now, like,

shit, you know, now I'm in
trouble.

Yeah, right.
But.

It's this kind of like funny on
trade stories now that you know,

if you go there with a purpose.
And again it goes back to

sometimes I write these articles
about 50 best bars, you know,

you know, there's nothing wrong
with them.

It's just that go there with a
purpose, you know, don't go

there just because you want to
be in 50 best bars, you know,

what's your story there?
You know, do you need two of

them because you want to drive
PR in the silver kind of

accounts or do you really
believe that those accounts are

gonna be the 10 cases account?
Because they're not.

You went there with the purpose,
but you also went there

prepared.
Like you said.

You had the beach club one, you
had the nightclub version, you

had the pizzeria one, you had
the the restaurant version.

Brands need to do that too,
right?

You have your yourself sheets
which everybody has.

You have an on premise one and
an off premise one or category

right.
Like the the on premise guys

don't need certain types of
information nor do they care.

But if you create sort of that
point of sale for that target,

they realize that you've gone to
the effort to give them the

things that they need and the
questions that they're going to

ask.
Your independent retailer is

probably going to want a
different sell sheet than your

big box or your chain.
Begin because they have

different motives and they have
a different decision making

tree.
So if you can preempt what

they're going to ask, you're
showing that you understand who

they are and that you will be a
good partner for them.

Exactly.
The same way if you're looking

at A at a restaurant group as
opposed to a a Michelin star

restaurant, right, Very
different materials.

It's not difficult.
And you and you sort of you set

them all up before you go and
have a hard copy.

Yeah.
Which is which is a good one to

remember because a lot of, a lot
of decision makers, they're,

they're still a little bit old
school.

They're probably getting who
knows how many emails per day

and you could potentially get
lost.

Absolutely.
So you have a hard copy, you

have a soft copy.
Tangible things always, always

work well.
That's the second opportunity to

to get the the information or
the pricing or whatever it may

be in front of them.
Yeah.

Building on what you're saying
now like on a retail chains or

bar chains, now when I'm talking
to people like they they said

they have a take that they say
actually you need to go into

bigger accounts because
otherwise you'll never going to

be able to do those 10 cases
kind of accounts now.

So you need to go into the the
manage, don't trade, you need to

go into the chains, you know and
to build that scale sooner you

know rather than later.
What's your take on building on

independent versus versus chains
when you are a small brand

specifically I mean if.
If you do it right, you will end

up in the chains, right.
So again sort of the narrow and

deep less is more, all the
things that we keep saying is

you can you can build that
relationship with a with an

independent liquor store, right.
They become your your brand

acolytes, your brand
ambassadors.

A big thing that the brands
often forget is don't forget to

the the staff trainings and
don't forget the people working

and walking the floor in liquor
stores because a lot of people

say, oh, what do you recommend?
All right, And you're not

selling 30 mils at a time,
you're selling 750 mils at a

time.
And if you can have someone who

is OK with the brand and they
understand or you're talking

points and they like you, they
are, you know what I recommend?

Steve's product or I recommend
Chris's product.

Most people sort of will have a
dinner party or they won't drink

alone, right?
And they will, they will convey

that good experience whether it
was I really like the store or

all of the store recommended
this, I think it's fantastic.

And you're you're building that
network via that Channel, that's

the best way to do it for a
small brand sort of you you get

them humming, you get those
those account reorders up, you

get your velocity, you get all
sort of the the KPI bingo words

that people want to be able to
say or your investors want to

hear.
Then you can graduate to the

chains and that's a lot more of
a of a fiscal commodity type

relationship.
When people are ordering sort of

containers or pallets at a time.
You've gone from the hand sell

to the OK price is really
important.

What rebates are happening,
what's the support that you can

offer.
A chain is very limited when

you're small.
Keep doing the small things, do

it right and and you'll get
there.

If you have like a couple of
good cocktail bars, then you can

go to the independent retailer
and tell that.

And then if you have a couple of
those independent retailers,

then you can start to have a
conversation with bigger on

trade accounts or bigger of
trade accounts, you know, and

it's all this kind of like
iteration again because I I

think people tend to forget
these things.

Now these mini case studies they
want to go in in research and

huge PDF decks.
No.

But yeah, actually you need like
a very few of of those.

No.
What is your take on

geographical relevance?
No, because what I mean is that

you know if you are in 5 bars in
a in a neighborhood and then I

always recommend going to the
independent stores like where

where applicable.
Of course not all cities are the

same, not all cities have like
New York, like nice bottle shops

and and so on.
So you know to focus on those

because then you're really
consolidating that geography.

Yeah, you're you're creating
like a a brand hotspot.

Yeah.
And in your experience, is there

a spillover effect between on
and off trade in in a certain

neighbourhood or not really?
There's a little bit.

I mean So what I always do is as
part of the staff training for

for example for the on premise
is tell them where they can get

it retail wise because I mean
someone maybe they come in and

you like Mr. Black and they have
an amazing espresso martini they

oh, this is fantastic.
Where can I get this if the bar

tender can say, oh, Chris's
liquor store around the corner,

Oh, great.
That's an extra bit of

information.
Wow, this, this brand is good,

right?
They've taught the bartenders,

they make a great product.
Oh, it's available here as as

well.
So there is a certain crossover.

I don't know if there's if
there's sort of some good

correlation type data but The
thing is to that then loops back

into the distributors right,
because they're the guys

theoretically selling or
delivering and and taking taking

the orders.
If your sales Rep has got five

accounts that he's he's putting
an order through every week he's

going to tell the rest of his
department his brand is on fire.

They're great and he's going to
then on the the 5050 account

that maybe we'll take it.
Maybe he shouldn't present it.

He will just because of the
successes he had rather than go,

oh I've got to pull this bottle
out.

I'm going to try and get a new
account and this, this sort of

Harkins back to the the chain,
whether it be sort of restaurant

groups or off premise is that
you may have an amazing product

at a great price point, but
you've got to fit in the

programming calendar too and and
the big global brands don't like

opening windows for anyone else,
right.

So even though you might be able
to sort of do it, the ability to

actually get on shelf or have a
sort of a sales program or

whatever it may be, you just
can't.

Whereas you can get bottles onto
the shelf and off the shelf at A

at an independent retailer much
easier.

It's easier to do your in store
tastings, it's more of a like a

phone call relationship rather
than have to try and get on a

calendar in nine months time.
Perish the thought if something

happens and one of the one of
the big big brands just comes in

and goes make it make it change
and you're not going to win

against them.
So get the get the wins that you

can whilst building yourselves
obviously by building the brand

and if if you do all those
things then you will like we

said before like you're not
going to skip from domino 2 to 8

this way you've hit 34567 and
eight can be a four door

restaurant group or or like a
small sort of retail chain in a

in upstate or wherever it may
be.

I I often say, you know, be
careful what you wish for, you

know, because do you have the
cash to sustain that steep

growth?
Because maybe you don't, you

know, so you're dreaming about
step 8.

But actually you you even can't
do it.

Even if I unlocked it for you
tonight, you would go bust, you

know, because you don't have the
cash.

You don't have the runway to
produce the the goods, to sell

them and to get paid in two
months time by the retail.

Yeah.
I mean there's payment terms and

and sort of floor inventory
levels with distributors and and

all that jazz bite off more than
you can chew and chew really

fast.
But you've just got to know that

like don't just don't
overstretch.

Have those stores and accounts
where they go, you pop in, you

know Chris, everything's under
control, man.

I'm going to put another order
in next Wednesday or as you and

the they're the great ones,
right.

You're off to visit certain
accounts and you just pop in

just to say hi.
Got any new stuff, you know,

Nope.
Everyone's trained up.

You're fantastic.
No.

And I really, I really love like
the you were having this music

example before and you know, it
reminds me of the, I don't know

if you remember Buddha bar, you
know, the the compilation they

always had.
I don't know if they still do,

but they've got the, the two,
well, CDs at the time now.

Not anymore.
But you know, they had these two

CDs and it was like dinner and
party.

Yeah, You know, and it was like
different kind of music.

I mean, it's the same DJ is the
same compilation, but there's

two different kind of music for
dinner and for partying, you

know, So don't put the party
music while you're having food

because you're going to mess up
and you're going to kill all the

conversation.
People are going to ask you to

put the volume down.
You're messing things up.

Or at the same time if you, if
you put the dinner music when

people are going to party, you
know they're going to fall

asleep on the couch, you know,
yeah.

So you know know where to do
what.

It's crucially important for the
brand building journey And so

some closing remarks.
I think this is a nice way to

wrap it up.
What would you advise you know

as at last thoughts And then
also like you know I would like

to give you some space to you
know advertise yourself like how

where where can people find you,
how can people get in touch with

you, reach you and and so on.
It is certainly a roller

coaster.
Being entrepreneur is.

I mean it seems like everyone's
an entrepreneur these days.

The beverage space it's it's
dynamic, it's fluid and you will

have the highest of highs and
you will have like crushing

lows.
So long as you have a a bit of a

plan and some structure around
it then that allows you to sort

of to handle handle the audibles
and the changes and allows you

to be nimble.
That's one thing that you have

to be as a as a founder LED new
brand being nimble learning and

just being in market.
I think you had one of the

questions before about sort of
doing it yourself and building a

team.
You need to do it yourself.

Sort of the the reaction that
you get when people say oh do

you work for the brand and you
you can say no I am the brand,

they've gone all right the
owner's out here with the

backpack he's in market, he's
visiting whether that be sort of

a distributor work with or more
importantly when it's just

yourself.
There's obviously a reason why

the owner of this brand has come
into my bar or into my

restaurant or into my liquor
store.

So that's sort of that's
crucially important.

And then as you build a team,
they know that you're in the

transits that are with them
maybe less so because you

obviously have founded duties to
do, but you need to do it from a

leadership perspective and from
a from a market reconnaissance

perspective, right.
It's good, it's good to know

what's going on.
So if you want to hear it from

sort of the people in the market
rather than read it on a on a

daily e-mail missive or whatever
it may be.

It just helps you keep your
finger on the pulse and then

obviously make sort of and that
will allow you to make better

decisions, reframe the framework
as it were as you grow it just

keeps you more educated and and
as we said it's it's enjoyable.

There are some really cool
people doing some really cool

things.
So you get to be part of that.

It's not all spreadsheets and
numbers and and accounts

payable.
There are some pretty cool

things to to do as well.
Yeah that's it.

I mean it's I've obviously I've
done it across a couple of

decades and four continents at
this point.

I obviously thoroughly enjoy it.
And so I I have Dynamic Beverage

Consultants, which is a
consultancy firm for brands

wanting to launch predominately
in the US But I do global stuff

as well just because of the
journey and the and the brands

that I've launched around the
world.

I act as a force multiplier.
So all of all the roundabouts

and that I got stuck on on all
the dead ends.

I can save brands from doing
that.

So I get brands to where they
want to go more effectively,

more efficiently from sort of a
a resource and a time and a

money perspective, but also more
enjoyably And and having done it

a couple of times, in addition
to sort of the technical aspects

of trade marketing or
distributor management, I also

work with founders on sort of
C-Suite activities and how to

build a business.
For example, who would your next

hire be?
Why, Again, sort of the domino

thing, right?
Yeah, you might need a marketing

person, but you can't get a
marketing person unless you're

selling anything.
So you sort of need a

salesperson and and how you
build your organizational

structure while building the
brand which is building the

business and sort of like that
Venn diagram with the with the

founder or founder sort of in
the middle of it because yeah,

you you know what it's like
you're you're pulled in every

direction generally possible all
the time.

So and where Where can people
find you, Steve?

Dynamic beverage consultants.com
or Steven with

[e-mail]
Steve is illegal on Instagram

and then as you mentioned, I've
I've found that LinkedIn has

been a really, really good
resource probably the last 18 to

24 months.
So there's some really good

networking to be done there.
I've found that sort of

especially in the in the
beverage space, people are

pretty good at sort of replying
and corresponding.

There's some good things to be
had there, some good people to

follow and some some good
information.

To get fantastic.
So Steve, thanks so much for

your time.
It was a pleasure, was a great

chat.
If you ever want to have me

back, I I would love to jump on
it.

Absolutely.
There's a lot of topics that we

we haven't covered like the due
to time, but I think it it calls

for next for next session to
follow up on the other things

when brands you know go bigger
and and they have different

challenges than then getting on
the menu and and selling to the

first bars.
Yeah, like the this is and what

we discussed today, this is just
sort of the the first couple

steps then it changes it's it's
always good to remember them and

sort of still hacking back to
them and do it.

But yeah, the business and the
and brands can can evolve quite

quickly.
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely.

Fantastic.
So thanks a lot, Steve.

Yeah, absolutely, man, that was
that was brilliant.

I really enjoyed it.
But that's like take care too.

That's all for today.
Remember that this is a two-part

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