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Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift.
The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life.
Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space.
With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as one of New York City’s top trainers and a thought leader in the health and wellness industry. After transforming his life at 15 years old through fitness, Kenny made it his mission to transform the lives of those around him.
Kenny has trained some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Jon Bon Jovi, Liev Schreiber, and Frank Ocean, and has been tapped as a fitness expert sharing his training approach with Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Runner's World, SHAPE, Well+Good, among other publications.
Kenny is the creator of STRONG New York, NYC's only Health and Fitness Expo. Strong New York is an immersive day of workouts, wellness experiences, panel discussions, and inspiring conversations with the best in-class wellness professionals, industry leaders, and change makers who are sharing their expertise on today's hottest wellness trends and first-hand experiences on how to optimize your overall health and life.
You can find Kenny at The Strength Club, his private training and group strength training facility in the heart of Manhattan located on 28th and 5th Ave in New York City.
This episode is powered by Celsius. Now, whether you're in the gym or you're on the run, or hey, you're just doing a podcast, grab yourself a can of Celsius and live fit. So this is a shameless pitch for strong New York, September 27th, right at the Glass House on 48th and 12th Avenue. We are throwing the biggest fitness and wellness event this city has ever seen.
Every year it gets bigger and bigger. This year we'll have 5,000 people, 80 plus brands, and you will be there. So make sure you get your tickets@strongnewyork.com. It's that simple. Alright, welcome back to another episode of the Strong New York podcast. I'm your host, Kenny Santucci, and as always, we're gonna talk about strength.
But today we're talking about strength in the beverage world because if you know anything about the beverage world, well, there's a lot of competition, there's a lot going on and there's a lot of struggles. And today we have a very strong gentleman. My guest, Yani Huff Nagel. Did I say nail? Nailed it. Did I nail it?
Nailed it. I was gonna say, I go, that doesn't sound too Greek to me, but we got the, we got the full story, but I'll have you guys slide in as dms for that. Um, but today, uh, we wanna talk about lemon. Perfect. Now my experience with Lemon. Perfect. I discovered it years ago. I walked into, I believe a Whole Foods, saw it on the shelf.
I said, this looks pretty good. There's only 10 calories in it. Lemme give it a whirl. Fell in love with it. Started selling in my gym, so I sell it in both of my, uh, my both my studios and I love it. But this is not an easy category to get into, and Yoni's gonna give us a little explanation as to how hard it is to start a brand like this.
Almost impossible. You know, I, I'll tell you this though. Usually I have to bring all the energy on the podcast that I do. I don't know if I can match you. That was as let's a good introduction. A, A as as, uh, as I've heard. So thank you. Thank you for having me. Thrilled to be here. Yeah. Uh, congratulations on, on all your success and everything that you've done, uh, you know, in the health and and wellness community here in New York and beyond.
Thank you. Yeah, so, I mean, I. I've worked with different brands in the past. Uh, one of our sponsors for the show is Celsius. Mm-hmm. I worked with a company called Fit Aid. I mean, we've worked with so many different brands over the years, and what I've realized is how hard and how oversaturated every market is.
Right. If you are a, uh, a podcasting studio or a gym or a beverage company, there are so many people doing so many different things, but I feel like this category. Gets so difficult because you have so many people scrutinizing what you're putting into it, how it tastes, what's more important to your brand, the products in it, or the taste, because sometimes it's very hard.
It, it's almost impossible to do both. Correct. Yeah. Well, we're trying. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and I, and look, I, I hope we can follow in the footsteps of Celsius. It's one of the great, great beverage brands that's ever been built. Mm-hmm. Took them 20 years. 20 to get, to get Yes. A lot of. False starts a lot of stops and starts.
But, um, ultimately they found a way to get to the winner's circle. Look, I think, I think in beverage, in food and beverage, um, taste always finds an audience. Mm-hmm. And I think that's, uh, from day one I've prioritized how do we make lemon Perfect. Taste as good as it can, you know, as it can be. Um, and, um, you know, if you can drive trial, right?
If you can get someone to try a product mm-hmm. Right? And then it tastes, um, to the point where you're gonna get repeat. Like, that's the magic, right? That's the magic. I, I, I, you know, you asked product or tech, I think they're kind of the, the, in the same mm-hmm. Realm, right? I mean. How you taste that is your, your, your product.
I mean, it's, it's the liquid and it's the, it's the packaging. Um, and that combination is ultimately what can propel you. Um, but you know, you, you, you mentioned just the, the chaos of beverage, right? Mm-hmm. And how hard it is, and that's for sure. I think we've found the point of real differentiation, right?
So if you look at flavor enhanced water, uh, there's nothing that, uh, has our, um, uh, nutritional deck, right? We're squeezed from a real juice. Um, so half a squeezed organic lemon in every bottle, um, or organic, right? Um, low calories, zero sugar. Um, you know, uh, bottled in, uh, recycled plastic, I mean, we, we, we think that we check every box unlike some of our competitors, but this doesn't happen overnight.
You've been working on this forever. Yeah. Right. You, you're finally getting to a place. Well, you had a good product from the beginning. I loved it. You took, you had a little bit of a hiccup there, right? You had some problems with, I guess people were saying there was something in the product that wasn't great for people.
Take us kind of through that. Yeah. Look, I, I, uh, I'm eight years in now. Mm-hmm. Right? And, uh, we've sold as of this morning, almost 125 million bottles. Wow. From day one. Right. Very impressive. Um, well, did you ever think right. Yes. I don't think diving into something like this unless you have the biggest dreams mm-hmm.
Is, uh, you know, that's just not me. Right. Like from day one I said I want to go build a multi-billion dollar brand. Mm-hmm. Um, and through that have a chance to make incredible impact on the health and wellness of the American consumer and beyond. But look, you know, this is now the fourth version of Lemon.
Perfect. Um, and. Only now do we feel like we have, you know, the blue skies ahead of us with, with what we've got on the table here. We started as a key refrigerated item. So I coach college basketball for 10 years and that has been a great driver of this whole ecosystem that I'm living in now. All of our stakeholders at some level are.
Through my world of basketball. Right. Which is great because you got a ton of young guys with a whole lot of cash. Yeah. For, for yes, for sure. Yeah. Um, but you know, the, the, the, the, we, so we started as a, as a keep refrigerated item, 12 ounce bottle. It was sweetened with the riri to, right. That was version one.
Then I said. Well, to win in beverage, we have to be able to find incrementality, you know, on the, on the floor of our retail partners, right? Building display is as important as anything to win in retail, to win in consumer packaged goods. And so if you're a cold chain item, you can't build display, right?
You the, the route to market you, your distribution's gonna be limited, very hard to sell. Uh, on the digital shelf, right? Whether it's Amazon or, you know, and, and, and, you know, um, and so I made a decision to flip the product and go shelf stable. So, so what, what does that look like? We, we used aseptic processing, so we used to be high pressure processed.
Uh, keep refrigerated. And then we switched our processing, uh, uh, method to something called aseptic. Mm-hmm. Uh, manufacturing high heat, uh, short time. So, um, you know, HTST processing. And what it does is it preserves the integrity of the lemons. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, but it allows you to be shelf stable, not a lot of capacity.
Um. But really all that we had to do was add. So we use organic flavors. We just had to add more flavor to make up for, uh, the, the, the, the process. The heat. Yeah, because there's gotta be something that keeps it. Shelf stable. Right? It's, there's gotta be some preservatives to keep it a little bit longer, right?
N no, um, you know, our, our product given the pH of our product, so the acidity of lemons really helps us. Mm-hmm. Um, so we're able to drive, uh, we can actually use a, a, a real fruit, um, with no preservatives, aseptic processing, and be shelf stable. It's the magic. One of the, I mean, that is the magic of Lemon Perfect, is that we can deliver something, uh, that is equally.
Nutritious as it is, good tasting, but do it in a way where we can sit on a shelf for multiple, multiple, multiple months dry. That was the second version of Lemon. Perfect. The third, um, you know, we, we, there was an article that came out on Erythritol in February of 2023. Mm-hmm. Um, um, and, uh, we were sweetened with our original stack was.
Stevia and erythritol. Mm-hmm. Uh, that was our sweetener system. And, uh, the study, uh, said that elevated levels of erythritol in the blood can cause, uh, stroke or heart attack. And, you know, our, our business at that point, uh, was on absolute fire. And then you wake up one day February of 2023 and you felt like, you know, you got hit by a truck.
Um, what were those phone calls like? Well, I looked down at my phone. It's crazy. I was in the office, I'll never forget it. I'm walking back from the bathroom to go back to my office. I looked down at my phone and within five minutes I had 25 text messages. And then it was 50, and then it was a hundred. And by the next morning, maybe it was two 50.
Um, it was investors, it was distributors, it was retailers. Anyone that I, you know, had communication with about lemon. Perfect. Um, so February of 2023, how long does it take to reroute this Yeah. And fix that line of communication? So, Kenny, we had made a decision a few months prior, finalized the decision a few months prior to go to a 15.2 ounce bottle.
So we were in the 12 ounce bottle. Mm-hmm. And then we made a decision to go to a 15.2 ounce bottle, largely driven by our want to win in immediate consumption, um, you know, opportunity. So convenience retail. Mm-hmm. Or anywhere that you would find beverage in a cooler. Right. Big visual difference between 12 ounces and 15.2 ounces, and we just felt like the 15.2 gave us a better chance to drive trial out of a cooler, out of a cold set.
Mm-hmm. We were also living in a, in a single digit margin world with our 12 ounce bottles, and I had to get outta that and flip the script. And so the combination of going to a 15.2 ounce vessel and, uh. Uh, signing with a, a new contract manufacturer. Um, we signed with Niagara bottling. They're like the major leagues of aseptic, uh, uh, bottling all beverage.
So, so as a business owner Yeah. Right. Just to, sorry to cut you off. Yeah. As a business owner going to a larger manufacturer mm-hmm. Which is gonna cost you more money now. I found sometimes it gets more difficult, right? They have, they have it figured out. The, those companies have it figured out. It becomes more, uh, expensive to go with that brand.
Um, but how much is that cut into your margins? Like who, how, how many people are not making these decisions to, to switch a manufacturer? Well, we switched manufacturing. To accelerate our, our, our margin profile. Yeah. Um, but it cuts into the cost a little. Right. Uh, it's cheaper to make so it, so it helps us.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, no, we made the move, uh, because with scale mm-hmm. The price, you know, your, your cost of goods, your what's called tolling goes down. Yeah. Yeah. So we. We had, uh, great leverage in the negotiation 'cause where we were previously. Mm-hmm. They also wanted to run the 15.2 ounce bottle. Um, but we ended up signing with, with, with, with Niagara and, and, and, and, and, uh, it changed our business overnight.
I mean, we went from, I. Again, like I said, single digit margin profile to best in industry margin profile overnight. I mean, the business fundamentally changed. It was the, probably the, the, the most important decision that we've made here at Lemon Perfect. Outside of maybe going to the 15 point twos and taking erythritol out of the formula.
So yes, so, so we take erythritol, we make a decision to take erythritol outta the formula, but. What do you replace it with? Uh, Reb m Stevia, uh, the, the, the, the reb m uh, part of the Stevia leaf. Um, but the, the, uh, we had already made the decision to go to the 15.2. We knew that we were going to Niagara, but we weren't going there until the first quarter of 2024.
Mm-hmm. And so I'm sitting here in February of 23. Knowing that we weren't gonna transition the business until another year, a year. And so, but I did put my head down and go to work and reformulate and take erythritol out. Um, so that when we did launch the 15 point twos, we would do it without the erythritol.
So we did have to get, you know, the problem was that. In August of 23 where we were producing the 12 ounce bottles, they called me and they said, Yani, we love you. We love Lemon. Perfect. Our lines are not running well, and we're gonna prioritize one of our other customers buy, which is one of our biggest competitors.
I was gonna say we were running at the same, yeah, we were running at the same make site and we had a deal that was expiring in. At that point, you know, the first quarter of 24 buy had five years left on their, on their deal. I knew it was always a risk when I called them and said, we're going somewhere else, that they could shut us down.
But I always felt like any business owner's gonna wanna produce as much gross profit as they can, and they're not gonna, you know, intentionally debilitate our business. Yeah. And, you know, at it. So, and that, that held true. The problem was, is that the, the lines were running at 50%. Um, you know, of, of, of their output.
And we got squeezed. And so now here I am with a business that went from zero to 46 million almost, I mean, in five years with not much dislocation in the business, to be honest. Everything for the most part had gone really well from zero to 46 million. Yeah, I was gonna say our revenue, so basically zero to almost a hundred million in retail sales.
Wow. And. Then you have this erythritol issue. I mean, there was no way that I was gonna move forward with the product that I felt like, man, I'm what, you know? Um, and then we have the capacity. Just make statements about that. Uh, we did put a, we did, we did, we, we, us and many other brands. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, and, and so now here I am.
With no capacity. We were at a single make site and within 24 hours, I mean, I flew to Rochester to beg, I got on my hands and knees. That's their, that was their hq and, and their, their owner, she just said, listen, there's, there's just nothing I can do. And we're sorry, and maybe in October we can get you up on the line.
We were very light on inventory at that point. We got, we sat around and we said, eh, maybe there's two months before there's no product on any shelves, and the line that was being built for us wasn't gonna be ready until April of 24, 9 or 10 months. From this moment, we had a term sheet that got blown up.
I called our. Lead investors. I said, this is what's happening. $18 million term sheet blown up. Um, you know, we had, we had some money in the bank, so it wasn't like we were gonna go home the next day, but if you can't sell any product, there's no business. Mm-hmm. Niagara, which is where we were, you know, we had just signed with them and we're, we're, they're building a line for us in, in Lancaster, Texas, outside of Dallas, but they come up with the idea.
Of running us on their Gatorade aseptic line in Kansas City. They said there's no nitrogen dosing. So when the bottles get cold, they're gonna, they're gonna panel, they're gonna look like this. So we went through that last year, they said, um, we can't take the line down, uh, because they're a major customer for us, so we're not gonna be able to put oxygen scavengers or UV blockers in the plastic.
And so you could have some oxidation. And on top of all that, you're going from a 29 gram bottle that's 12 ounces to a 24 gram bottle. That's 15.2 ounces. So 27% more vol volume, 25% less plastic. So your walls are gonna be really thin, and that's gonna become a more hospitable environment for, for product degradation.
Mm-hmm. We start running the product, we save the business. Sure enough, exactly a year ago we start tasting bad bottles.
It was one bottle. I was like the first to recognize it, and then it was two bottles and then it was four bottles, and then it was a few people on our team, and then it was our, our entire team. And then it was a few of our investors and then all of our investors, and then it was customers. Then it was distributors and then it was retailers and it was, and the bottom fell out.
Um, how long after that article? That was a year later. Yeah. So the article came out in February of 23, and now we're talking about June of 24. So that was like 15 months. And when we took the erythritol out, one of the other factors was that it has such bulk, it's a bulk sweetener, 60% as swish sugar.
Without the erythritol in there to provide that bulk sweetness, we were even more naked on some of the odor that was being generated. Um, and the product wasn't bad for you, it just didn't tasted bad. Mm-hmm. It was like you had to hold your nose and drink it. It was, yeah. It was like, I don't even know. I, I've been describing it as.
If you left lemons out in the sun all day. Yeah. And then came back and, you know, had some of that juice. Like it, it was just gnarly. And, and how much product are we talking about? Oh, millions of cases. Millions of cases. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you just gotta dump it all. Uh, I know, I was, I mean, what, there was nothing we could do.
I mean, we weren't gonna stop selling it. Yeah. So, because our line that was being built for us in Dallas was still at this point, you know? Four or five months away. They were telling us October, November of 24 to get up and running on that line in Dallas. So, um, you know, Kenny, what, what I've learned in this thing is you have to find the strength to get up in the morning.
Sometimes it's really hard. I had days where I could not get outta bed. Um, I had to have people on our team come and try to get me outta bed. Um, it's a, on the, the road of entrepreneurship, um, I would imagine for most is, um, just a test of will. Mm-hmm. And the ability to overcome all the challenges and dislocation that you deal with.
And, um, I chose something beverage that's as hard as any industry. I. Because you have a success rate to liquidity of about one in 10,000. So that means for every 10,000 beverage brands that start, because the barrier to entry and beverage is so low, one, one ever sells their business. Um, so, but I got back in the Flavor Lab because we didn't exactly know what was happening.
Mm-hmm. So we, we. Switched out our Stevia blend, toggled up and down on flavor and sweetness, switched out our lemon extracts, and we came up with a formulation that I felt was even far better than what we had. And then we have this done and we had lost some of our most loyal. Lemon perfect consumers. And so we all sat around and we said, you know, should we look at changing the packaging as well to reacquire any lapse consumers?
And we, we did that. Mm-hmm. Um, we hired a woman named Paula Grant. Who I think is the most talented commercial packaging designer that there is. She's done Vitamin Water and Body Armor and several o other brands, and we rolled up our sleeves. We got to work. The idea was how do we own the lemon? How do we communicate flavor, right?
Like, how do we communicate without saying it like that Lemon Perfect is delicious, that it's refreshing, that it's healthy. Um, and Kenny, I, I don't know if I would've imagined. How transformative the final flavor change or, you know, formulation change coupled with this packaging would've been on our business.
I mean, you're talking about a violent V-shape recovery in our business. June is gonna be the best month in company history. Um, I mean, we'll do over 10 million in retail sales in June. We think July is gonna be 12 to 14. I mean, the thing is flying. That's amazing. And our team has never had more energy.
Our investors have never, I mean, look, they wanted my head on a pitchfork. Yeah. A year ago. Now they want to parade me around like I'm a circus act. I think how do you recover from that? How do you gain back that following? How do you, like, is it marketing? Is it advertising? Is it giving away product? What?
How do you recover from such a devastating point of your business? It's hard, it's really hard to restart. You know that That's the challenge and we're going through that right now. It's like, you know, uh, 'cause it's almost harder to start from that point than it is to start from square one. Well, we had the placements, so we had the distribution.
Okay. So we didn't lose any distribution. Yeah. Fortunately. So that. We, we, we didn't go backwards into, and that would 'cause, that would've been the death sentence. Mm-hmm. We were on death row, but they didn't bring me to the room, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like it was, it was a moment of unbelievable challenge, but we were able to get back in the courtroom.
Yeah. Which is great. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, listen, uh, here we are and, uh, we're not in jail anymore. We're, we're actually, you know, having some real fun with this business again. So where do you categorize the product? Like what I, I know you said buy was one of your competitors, but do you, is it, um, a drink?
Is it a water? Like how do you, how do you guys kind of position it? Yeah. Uh. Anytime hydration. Mm-hmm. Uh, we we're not an isotonic, I don't wanna play versus Gatorade or body armor or, or the, you know, the, the, the, the world of, you know, high, uh, you know, salt, like the electrolytes of the world and that, um, you know, we, we just, we just want to be great tasting anytime, uh, uh, hydration.
Um, we play in the flavor enhanced water category. Our competition is Vitamin Water by hint roar. Um, but at the end of the day, you know, uh, the average person is making about 15 beverage decisions a day. Really? Yeah. Uh, think about it. Coffee, water, a Celsius. Um, and we want to capture as many of those. You know, decisions as we can, if we can get one, we're, we're gonna build a really big business.
Yeah. So after changing the the bottle, um, do you think, or have you seen people reach for it more? Oh yeah. Because my next question is how much do you think was intentional marketing versus how much was it organically? People just trying the product, because I was an organic user, I went, yeah, it's amazing.
I saw the bottle. And I was like, oh, lemon water. I could, yeah. I could fuck with that. You know? It's interesting. Yeah. Lemon water and zero sugar have really helped us bring people just that. Yeah. It's the marketing. Yeah. Now there is, in food and beverage, there is no better marketing than your bottle.
Mm-hmm. You could, there's, I mean, nothing. Now look, you know, there might be influencer. Lead brands where the packaging is not as important. We're not that. And so our packaging that, that, that's the, I mean, when you drive up to the house, you know, like you're, oh my God, that's a really nice house. Oh shit, that's a thing.
So it people walk through our front door because of how our bottles look and how they land on the shelf today more than ever before. I thought we had something iconic with our previous packaging. Mm-hmm. I like the old packaging too. A lot of people did. Yeah. And I, a lot, I mean, listen, we, we, we raised, uh, a hundred million dollars on our old packaging.
It's just until you go and try to do something, you never really know where that road can lead. And, and you know, the. The refreshment perception is up 25%. The purchase intent is 35% versus the old packaging. Wow. Yeah. And now we're seeing it like it, people are, I mean, the rate of sale is, is far in front of anything that we've ever, I mean, there are, there are retailers right now where over the last 12 weeks we're, we've doubled, doubled, doubled our velocity.
So Sheets is a great partner of ours. It's a convenience store. Yeah. Western Pennsylvania down into the Carolinas. In the last three months, we have doubled our sales at sheets doubled, and we haven't promoted. It's a direct customer, so we don't have, uh, field execution that can help drive it there. The bottles go into the cooler, and that's that, and we have doubled sales over the last three months.
It, it, it, it, it is. I started this podcast by telling you that we've sold 125 million bottles. I think as I sit here on this couch today, that we will sell 1.25 billion bottles before it's all said and done, and then when I'm not here, they're gonna sell a whole lot more. Five years from now, you're writing your book, you sold the company working on some other different stuff.
If somebody asked you was that point I. Turning point where you had to flip everything, would you say that's the turning point and it was all worth it? The story is left to be written. Mm-hmm. You know, for me, I have burned all the ships now. Um, and as you, as you have to, yeah. But especially over the last couple of months, um, you know.
We've raised another round of capital. I went back to our original investors, so many of them came in. Those relationships are really, really, really important to me. Um, there is no, there is no option here besides scaling the mountain and winning. Winning is defined in a lot of ways for me. Right. One is liquidity for our investors.
Mm-hmm. Making our investors money, return on capital.
The truth is, is that the time to invest in Lemon Perfect was on day one or Day now. Right. Some of our investors in the middle because of the time now that this journey Journey's going to take, it's gonna be 10, 11, 12 years instead of. Six, seven or eight. Right? So when you just think about kind of their IRR, but anyway, they're gonna win.
So liquidity for our investors. One a t trampoline of growth for our people, right? Like I want this to be the greatest professional experience of their career. And we've got a core group now that's been with us for three years, four years, five years. The, the, the retention in our business is incredible. I think the most important road that we're gonna sprint down and, and I want to cross the finish line first on, is disrupting the way that America and the world eventually drinks beverage.
So much of the root of destruction, uh, uh, on, on health is what people drink. Not so much what people eat. It's hard to go to McDonald's and have five hamburgers. It's not hard to have, uh, a, a, a large soda. Right. It just drinks easy. Mm-hmm. And it's, uh, it might not be as caloric, but it's far higher in sugar and lemon.
Perfect. We're not gonna, it tastes really good, so you get to still have this great drink experience, but with zero sugar and the way that. The nutritional deck is, it's better for you than anything that, I mean, anything else around it that's not caloric. Right. Um, lemons and limes are, they're magical super fruits because they provide all these health benefits without the sugar or the calories.
Mm-hmm. Right. Um, juices are good for you. Um, but they're just so caloric and they're usually sugar loaded. Right. Even if it's natural. So, so anyway, I'm saying all that to say that, um, I wanna win in those. In those three phases. Um, and uh, I use this line a lot. Like I'm either walking outta the door with some coins in my pocket and all of our investors' pockets and our people, everyone's an owner in the business or.
I will be in the room on, on death row because I, I'll be six feet under. So, uh, no, we're really excited about what we have in front of us, um, and uh, we just have a relentless will to win collectively across the organization. And it is really inspiring. What year would you say that you went from being a basketball coach to I.
An entrepreneur. Yeah, I, I'm still coaching. Yeah. So there's, there might not be a basketball, um, but I'm still coaching and, you know, uh, I, I, I think when you have an intense focus on the scoreboard like we do, and you, you drive a, a, a, a culture. Of, uh, relentless tenacity and work ethic. And, um, you know, there, there are just so many parallels, you know, um, every, every off season I get calls to go back and coach, you know?
Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I, yeah, I, I, I, um, I'm an entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. But I'm obsessed with building brand. Right. Um, and making sure that, that we always have the, the story to go have the right capital partners to put fuel on this business and grow and, and, um, you know, and build a really good business. Um, and so, yeah, I, the, the joke is, is that when anyone asks me, you know, what's the key to success in entrepreneurship, I tell them, go coach.
College basketball for 10 years and then come back to me. Right? Yeah. Um, and uh, you know, we had great success when I was coaching. Went to the NCA tournament six times in 10 years. My hope is that my greatest professional moment was when I was at Harvard and we beat New Mexico in the NCA tournament 2013.
We were 14 seed. They were three seed salt. Lake City, Utah. When, when we. Sell this business and we cross the finish line that will then supersede that moment. So, um, it's been there, there there's, as far as I know, there's no one out there that has coached at the division one level and then gone and done something in food and beverage like this.
So it's a very unique deal. Well, this is definitely like going to the NBA and trying to win a championship, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's hard. You know, that's really hard. Um, but, uh, but look, you gotta have the right personnel. And you have to play together. And I think we've got those two things. Do you look at your inner circle?
So you know the, the five people that you have to communicate with every day, your investors. Do you look at them more as a family or a team? I'm really close with them, you know, um, family, that line is a little blurry 'cause you know, there are. Some differences between coaching college basketball and being in a locker room every day, or in the offices every day, and being around those 13 players, you know, and this journey.
I mean, our people, they've got families, right? They've got things on Saturday and Sunday. They might have, you know, youth soccer or they're gonna go play golf. They're gonna, you know, I don't, we don't have all their time like I would if I was coaching college basketball. So it's a little bit different. Um.
I do believe that it is a family. Mm-hmm. Right. We're unbelievably close and the communication is excellent at Lemon. Perfect. Um, but it's a, we are a great team. Mm-hmm. We always have screws to tighten and work to do communication. The pursuit of constant communication is never ending, and we're working through that.
We always have to get better. Um, but. My energy's never gonna be matched, and I just hope that our people can bring it, you know, as, as best as they can every day. One of the things that I find to be the hardest part of being an entrepreneur is definitely during those dark times when you feel like you have nothing going on.
When the world's working against you, it's so hard for me to gather up what I need to get the team excited. Mm-hmm. And keep everybody on when you feel like you're at your darkest moment. What do you do? How do you, how do you muster that up? You said you were tr having trouble getting out of bed. Yeah. You know, there are definitely days.
I mean, I had one just as early as yesterday, um, where you're like, I don't even want to get outta bed. It's so hard. What advice do you have to people who are like going through that shit and you have to be the one to rally everybody up? Yeah.
You know, I, I, I, I would, I would tell you that through the darkness comes light, I, I do believe that now having gone through it mm-hmm. In basketball and in entrepreneurship, in building lemon. Perfect. Um, there are, there are, if you, if you can find the strength. There are always better days ahead. Um, it might get worse before it gets better, but just have belief that, you know, if you're the, if you are the owner of your destiny, you know, it, it, it'll get better.
Um, you know, and, and, and, um, you're not gonna be perfect. When the lights come on, you're never, it's, it's, you know, you're, you're never gonna be flawless. It just, it just, you know, you gotta find a way. You gotta find a way. I mean, that's just really what it comes down to. Yeah. Um, and, uh, you know, it, it, it's funny.
It's like I would, I would tell you that, um, resilience is a muscle and. As you go through moments of challenge, that muscle gets bigger and you become more resilient when the hardship comes again. Yeah. And so I think if you can just embody that idea, um, getting those reps in. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Oh, listen, you're, you, you train, uh, hopefully the resilience muscle, you know, you don't have to keep using it, right?
Like, you know, it's like, you know, hopefully not. Yeah, yeah. You know, you think, I mean, I've been at, I've been chipping away at, uh, the event that we do Yeah. For this will be the ninth year that we do it, and every year I'm like, God, will this just fucking eventually get easy? Will it ever get to a point where it just kind of like the pieces just start to fall into place?
But I, I think. I try to find the beauty and the struggle, and it's just like, you feel like you're beating your head up against the wall. You're always like, oh, this'll be the year. This'll be the year. And you know, it's, it's tough because you, you watch a lot of other brands, right? And I'm sure you've seen this, you see something like Prime or something.
Yeah. They, their whole product. It's absolutely. Have you ever tried it? Yes. I mean, not to shit on anybody. Yeah. But it, it's so sugary. It's meant for kids, I believe. Mm-hmm. Because it's so sweet. Um, but it's driven by celebrity. It has so much backing with, uh, you know, the guys who created the brand and stuff.
Have you ever had a strategic partner or anybody come along who's helped that or why haven't you used any type of celebrity or used marketing to drive? From like a, an influencer standpoint. Well, listen. Easier said than done. That worked Yeah. For them for a moment. And, and you know, that brand has had in, in, you know, some real challenges over the last year or so.
Mm-hmm. So it wasn't able to hold. Now I like think a lot of that was probably product, right? Yeah. Um, I mean, Beyonce invested in Lemon Perfect. And, um, that was an incredible moment for us. How'd that happen? You know, if you Google, it's a long story, but, um, you know, the, the, the short answer is that. Uh, uh, she was a fan of the product.
Um, there was an, uh, Instagram carousel where there was a bottle of lemon Perfect. Uh, in her limo behind her. It wasn't like she, it wasn't like she, you know, held up the bottle and mm-hmm. But it was, there was a, a dragon fruit, mango, lemon perfect in the cob holder of the limousine that she was getting out of.
Um, it was at a, uh, a pre-Kers party in 2026. Um, and we tried to reach out to her management team. She was going through a change at the time actually there. And so we couldn't, we, we ended up not getting to her. And then fast forward, and one of our, um, you know, one of our larger investors who knows her well, uh.
Was was with her and Lemon Perfect came up and the bridge got built and here we are. So what, wait, what year did that happen? This was 20, uh, the, the, the, the bottle in the limousine was 2020. The investment didn't get finalized until November of 21, and then the announcement was April of 22. So long, long windowed, so.
At that point, are you like, okay, this is gonna skyrocket, this is, this is the influencer or the person that you Yeah, I think, I think, um, we've had the guys from Slate on. Yeah, I think they're good. Yeah. Great guys. Manny's an incredible guy and I think, you know, and he always says like, I think one of the biggest strategic partners and investors they've had has been Dana White.
Yeah. He's done. Wonders for that brand. I mean, it's a great product. That's the thing. You have, uh, it's a great product, product, product. Very innovative product, great product. And having someone great behind you really helps out. A friend of mine's got an incredible brand in, um, Philly. It's more of a t-shirt kind of lifestyle brand, but Pedros, Kian, you know him.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So he is a big, uh, um, kind of influencer, uh, health coach type guy. But anyway, he's, he's helped them. Really move the needle as well with like their brand. So it's, it's great to have that strategic partner who has a ton of influence. I feel like Beyonce should have been that for you guys. Yeah, I mean, part of it was, you know, the way that the deal was structured, um, you know, there, there was no requirement for her to post on her own channels, right?
It was, it was our announcement. So, you know, the, the reach of that was somewhat. Limited. Mm-hmm. And then we didn't have, this is 2022, we just didn't have the distribution. Right. Like we weren't in Target at the time. We weren't in Walmart. Right. Like we weren't in Costco. So you just. We weren't in convenience retail, and so it was a little bit too early for us.
Uh, but listen, you Google Lemon Perfect today and the first thing that comes up is that Beyonce's an investor, so it just adds credibility to the story. Mm-hmm. Uh, she's a friend of Lemon. Perfect. And we're thrilled that she's a part of it. Yeah. What is your day to day look like now? Right? Like you said you had to reformulate the product.
I'm sure this took a long time to gather up investors and people to believe in the product. What is your. Day-to-day look like right now? Um, I think the most important thing for Lemon Perfect is making sure that we have the capital to keep dreaming. Mm-hmm. And so my number one focus, uh, is, is making sure that we have the capital resources right now.
Raising money. Yeah. Raising money. So that's, and it's gone The last, we're in a financing right now. Uh, it's gone incredibly well over the last two months. We're oversubscribed. Um, we're gonna extend the financing. It, it, it, it. There's just so much momentum in the business right now that, that it, we, we, I feel like we're a really good bet.
Right? So, so that helps. Um, and then it's just being, you know, for, for me, it's pumping up the team. Um. You know, thinking about the future, right? Like, I gotta think a year in advance, or 18 months in advance, or, you know, um, but just putting the face paint on every day and being a, a, a, you know, just the, the most energetic person for how Big Lemon Perfect can become on the entire planet.
And if I do that, that's the biggest part of my job, I think. Do you ever feel like. Because this is a new flavor and I haven't tried it yet, and I was waiting to try it. Yeah. The lime. The lime, you should try it. I haven't tried it. It's, it's, it's, it's something that, that we've been working on for several, several years and just launched it now.
Okay. So how much of it is like, okay, we have a great product. This, in my opinion, will be a product, a legacy product. It'll be around forever. God willing, I hope for you. Yeah. Um. You don't want it to like kind of fall off or anything, but how much is innovation? How much are you like, Hey, we need to come out with something new.
We need a new flavor. Like, is that always like that voice in the back of your head? Yeah, I think about innovation all the time. Yeah. Go to sleep thinking about it, wake up, thinking about it. Um, you know, there's two schools of of thought, you know, more revenue, fewer skews, more valuable business. So that, right.
Like especially in our world where Pepsi, they don't want 22 SKUs on their truck. They would be much happier with one. Mm-hmm. Look, a Red Bull, that's a great example, was one SKU forever. And now I don't even know. They might have, they have, I think they have two. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, probably they've got flavors, sugar free, this that, but, but that's a great example.
Yeah, a great example. Um, you know, we're fortunate that we have a hero skew in our portfolio, but I just think you have to be really careful with innovation. Candidly. Um, you know, we've looked at sparkling innovation, um, you know, that there are, there are categories now that are really hot, right? Whether it's, you know, protein or, or you know, you know, um, creatine shit.
Crea. Yeah. Creatine, I think. You might know better than, I don't think creatine, uh, has a drink form yet. Yeah. Because it's not, it, it, the, it, it, it, the efficacy of it. So that is something that I've actually thought about. How the hell you can, you know, 'cause there's no, a creatine drink would be unbelievable.
You know, my powder in the morning, it gets all over the place, you know? It's annoying. It's annoying. Yeah. Um, that's why I think everybody's put it into gummy forms, gummies. It's a big one now. The gummy forms. Yeah. Um, but, uh, uh. But I do have, you know, I I, I think there could be innovation for us that comes down the road that may not be branded Lemon Perfect, but that Lemon Perfect owns, if that makes sense.
So that's kind of where my mind is right now. Mm-hmm. I, I, I, no one even, I mean, 2% of America knows what Lemon Perfect is today. So really, we gotta, that's it. That's it. So that is such a big audience to go capture. Right. If we can go from two to 10. We're, we're, we're, this thing will be the, one of the biggest beverages.
So is that through distribution or is that through consumer, like kind of marketing deals? Like what, what does that look like? Uh, to like, let more people know that this product exists? More distribution. O obviously more brand marketing above the line marketing, um, you know, and then doing more things like this, more podcasts where we get, you know, because hopefully, you know, hopefully this yields.
Some of your audience that go out and try it right? And fall in love with it, and they tell someone, and the next thing you know, it's very, the flywheel of it is very, very powerful. How much are you getting in your balls broke saying that there's like, oh, there's, there's no sugar in it, but it, why would somebody drink this over water?
Like, why would I drink this? Well, flavor and the benefits of lemons. Yeah. Um, you know, who wants to drink plain water? I find myself very challenged to drink plain water. I really do. I mean, I do black coffee, lemon. Perfect. And because we don't have a sparkling product, I do drink some sparkling water, so in my fridge, yeah.
We have water up top, which rarely you could ask anybody who works for me. I, I never drink it. Yeah. I have lemon. Perfect. On the next shelf, I have Celsius on the next shelf. And. I drink about a gallon of black coffee. Yeah, that's great. That's about me, you know, and, and obviously you got, you know, look, every now and then I'll do an RTD protein shake.
You mentioned slate. You know, like, that's good. You know, there's, there's, um, but I'm, uh, yeah. I mean, I'm probably drinking today maybe 10 bottles of lemon Perfect a day. I mean, I just can't stop drinking it. So you guys are a massive product now. I mean, you're, you sold over a hundred million bottles, right?
Mm-hmm. You've raised over a hundred million dollars. Mm-hmm. What's your inner circle look like? Who are you conversing with on a daily basis? Like, who's in Probably too many people?
I, I, I don't know if I have an, I, I shouldn't say that. I have a group of core investors mm-hmm. That I talk to almost every day. I have a, we have, uh, uh, a team that I talk to almost every day. Um. You know, and then I'm very close with my family. So, but I mean, Kenny, I, I, shit, yeah. Yeah. I might've had 50 phone calls yesterday.
I know I had 17 meetings 'cause it was one of those crazy days. But like, it just, you know. Yeah. Um, but we have a core group of people that are around me that I feel really good about. Communicating with and going to? Well, there's a, I mean, listen, the, the dream is always to like sell the product off and make a ton of money and, you know, ride off into the sunset.
Uh, but if that day never comes, you know, what, what is, what does the future look like? What, what are you doing with it? Like, do you just keep, do you make a big play and try to do something else? Or do you, uh, you kind of continue to go down the road? Like, are you that in love with the product that you're gonna keep kind of pushing, uh, that day has to come.
I'm just gonna be as, like I said earlier, I mean that there's gonna be finality. Mm-hmm. No, I am not gonna just plot along for the next three or four or five years and. Figure out how to grind through this. That's not, this business wasn't built in that way. Mm-hmm. This business was built to be a zero or a hero.
It, the, the, there, there will be the, the outcome for us is very binary. Mm-hmm. We're either gonna go do something really magical or it's not gonna work. There's no middle ground. How, how many companies out there, right? Like Coca-Cola and, you know, Pepsi, there's what, five to 10 big companies that could potentially buy you out?
Probably in that range. But you, you, you have. You know, you've got opportunity now through private equity, right? The multiples would be compressed, but, you know, uh, the public markets, right? We just need to build a great business with a big audience and, you know, and it'll, it'll play out, play out. Um, I'm very focused on, on just building a, a, a, you know, making sure that the product is great and, and then the fundamentals of the business, the black and white, the arithmetic, you know, um.
And if we do that thing and grow, if we do all that and grow, we're, we're gonna be in great shape. I mean, you know, if this thing is, um, you know, couple hundred million dollars in revenue, um, with, with best in industry gross margin profile, we're gonna be in great shape and we're on the track to go do that.
Yeah. You're in sheets, whole Foods. You're in all the major distribution, like what's left, who's left a lot. Really? Yeah. Walmart, target, uh, a lot of convenience. Um, what, what's the, what's the golden goose? What's the, what's the, is Walmart like looked at as like, oh, you get into Walmart, you're selling? Yeah.
I, I have to be careful when I answer that question because I, you know, we have so many great retailer partners, so there's no one that I would, you know, I mean, we have a couple of strategic partners. I mean, you know. Uh, uh, that, that I would, you know, but, but, um, anywhere that beverage is sold mm-hmm. I want lemon.
Perfect to be, I don't care. Uh, seven 11. Yeah. I don't care what, I don't care where it is. Who's buying it, what the banner is. Like this, this is, this is a product that was built for anyone, anytime, anywhere. Mm-hmm. And so I'm never gonna be narrow in. In answering a question like that where there's a, there's a, a, you know, a retailer that sits above all, or there's a retailer that would, like, I I, wherever beverage is sold, we want to be, one of the things that I struggle with sometimes when talking to marketing people and advertising and different people within the PR world, they're like, all right, who's your avatar?
Who are you trying to sell to? Mm-hmm. With the event, and I said. Anyone could benefit from fitness, anyone, everyone should be at this event. It's an opportunity to learn and grow, you know, and I, I like that here you are with a massive brand and you, you, you guys are clearly doing very well right now, and I've given this to my niece and nephews when my, when they're at my gym, I drink it.
I don't think there's anybody that. Can't not drink this right. When you think of soda, I'm like, I think soda's not the best product for people. Um, there's a lot of people who, if they cut soda, I know when I was younger, I was 13, 14 years old. I started on this weight loss journey. I want to get into good shape.
One of the first things that I learned was, hey, if you cut soda outta your diet, you'll start to lose weight. As a 13-year-old 230 pound kid, I cut soda outta my diet. I lost like 10 pounds in two weeks. That's awesome. And I was drinking soda all the time. Kenny, I have not used what you just said, but that is a great it.
It is like drinking lemon. Perfect. Is like going to the gym or going for a walk or playing basketball.
Anyone. Can use fitness. Yeah. I don't care how old you are, you know the shape that you're in today. Disabled. Right. You know anyone? Yeah. That is a great line. Is that lemon Perfect is like fitness. Everyone should do it. I love that and I'm gonna steal it. Good. Done. Take it. Well, Yani, listen, I really appreciate you coming by.
This was awesome. I, I love the deep dive into the business, the struggles, everything. The product is great. I absolutely love this 'cause I almost just crushed the button. Yeah. It's easy to drink, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I'm telling you, I'm, I didn't have you on like when. We did that event downtown and they said you were gonna be talking.
I'm like, oh my God, that's great because I'm actually a fan of the brand and I like having people on that. I'm already using their product. If you look back at any of our old episodes, we've had Manny from Slate on product that I sell in my gym. I had the, um, the guys from Kinetic. Do you know those guys?
Mm. It's a, uh, ketone drink. Okay. I think it's incredible. Um. You know, you guys are great. You guys are doing good things. So if you guys haven't tried Lemon Perfect yet, I highly recommend it. It's not just a sales pitch. I wish he was paying for the episode, but he's not. It's just actually a great product and you guys can definitely go check it out.
Where could everybody check you guys out? Where could, uh, where could we learn more about it? Well, in, in New York, we've got distribution just about everywhere, up and down the street. Um, you know, whole Foods, uh, ShopRite, stop and shop. Amazon is a great place to find us. Um, if not same day, usually Lemon Perfect is available next day, so that's great.
Uh, our own website, lemon perfect.com. Um, but uh, you'll start to see us more and more places, but thank you so much for having me. No, of course. This awesome. Your energy is incredible and I'm gonna use some of those lines. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, awesome. Listen guys, thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the Strong New York podcast.
Don't forget to share, like, subscribe. You know, share it as much as you possibly can, because we're trying to make this thing, uh, a bigger deal than it is right now. So, keep watching, keep paying attention, and keep getting strong.