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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;16;00 - 00;00;22;26
Pri
Hey happy good Friday, happy Easter, happy Passover. Big holiday day.
00;00;22;28 - 00;00;31;07
Chris
Holidays. Yeah. I thought we were just going to get the lead out with a rock block of a plane. But no. You want to celebrate things? Fine.
00;00;31;09 - 00;00;38;27
Pri
Well, these are all holidays. I do not celebrate, but I feel like a lot of people do. So it's going to be just us on the pod today?
00;00;39;04 - 00;00;46;11
Chris
Yeah, well, we'll somehow we'll manage. I do feel like Easter is a far less big deal than it was growing up.
00;00;46;11 - 00;00;59;00
Pri
Really? It feels like I mean, as a non-Christian, I feel like my friends really plan around Easter. Like it almost feels. It feels like. I feel like it. It feels like Christmas level for some people.
00;00;59;03 - 00;01;05;19
Chris
As in like the actual holiday itself, or the fact that your kids are out of school and you have to go on vacation somewhere.
00;01;05;21 - 00;01;13;11
Pri
The actual holiday itself, like, I feel like people dress up for Easter and like actually care about it, but also the fact that people are off.
00;01;13;13 - 00;01;24;11
Chris
You apparently interact with a far more godly set than I like my world of lapsed Catholics who are not as Easter as, we all were growing up.
00;01;24;13 - 00;01;48;12
Pri
Wait, okay, speaking of religion, have you been hearing about and reading articles about that church in Greenwich Village in New York where a lot of like under 30 Gen Z people are going, and it's like vibe. And people describe it as like it was like a joke with like, the best club in New York City is like the Saint Joseph's Church in Greenwich Village.
00;01;48;19 - 00;02;01;27
Pri
Have you seen the Washington Post article about this and like tweets about it? And I think there's like that conservative magazine, like evey magazine also wrote about it. I don't know if you've seen this in passing.
00;02;01;27 - 00;02;07;28
Chris
I didn't bother clicking on it. I guess let's start with what denomination is Saint Joe's church?
00;02;08;00 - 00;02;11;11
Pri
You're like asking the wrong person, but I it's Catholic, I think it.
00;02;11;13 - 00;02;40;13
Chris
All right. Well, there is like Catholic. Like you're Catholic. There's no denomination in Catholicism, right? Like we're just we're the OGs there. We don't have to splinter into a million silly groups. Yeah, I don't know this this whole, you know, the youth embraces Catholicism is just foreign to me because I grew up rejecting Catholicism. I, I came of age in the the really down bad years in the 90s when the sex scandals were all over the place.
00;02;40;13 - 00;02;47;13
Chris
And like, this whole, like, restoration and the feel of Catholicism. Thing is like a bit of a mindbender for me.
00;02;47;16 - 00;03;15;28
Pri
I can't tell if it's like a psyop or real like is, is this like all propaganda? But it does. It does totally feel like younger people. I mean, over Covid people were going to that. I think it's also like the digital age. People feel disconnected from people they want to connect. Like this article in the post was basically talking about how, like male loneliness is kind of a driver as to why Gen Z males particularly, particularly are going to like Sunday mass.
00;03;16;00 - 00;03;37;19
Pri
And so it's also like a kind of reaction to like the hyper online porn addicted age band. I mean, there's like a quote from someone who's basically like, yeah, like I feel like all my peers are seeing it at home on their computers, like addicted to porn. And like, this is like a way out. And maybe I'll even, like, meet a nice girl or something like, it's very interesting.
00;03;37;25 - 00;03;43;07
Chris
Literally putting your future in God's hands to save you from the machines.
00;03;43;09 - 00;03;44;10
Pri
Pretty much.
00;03;44;13 - 00;04;01;09
Chris
Hey, look, you know, like I want I want everyone to be happy, tree. I want everyone to find meaning in life. And you know what doesn't work for me may work for other people. And so hats off to them for embracing something wholesome. Question mark. But like, you know, turning to the light.
00;04;01;12 - 00;04;08;16
Pri
Yeah. Anyways, just interesting thing that the news cycle, as we talk about Good Friday and Easter, I feel like.
00;04;08;20 - 00;04;20;00
Chris
Are you going to who's going to extend the great MFA auto fic from Time Square to Saint Joe's? My life from, hipster sleazebag to, trad wife Kath?
00;04;20;03 - 00;04;38;04
Pri
I know I thought that I think catfishing was over, but apparently maybe it was just niche and now it's becoming more mainstream. I don't know, but yes, it very is connected to like, that dime square cohort like the the counterculture reactionary set.
00;04;38;11 - 00;04;44;00
Chris
God bless the kids. Good luck. And, the best thing about it is Jesus is going to be back in three days.
00;04;44;03 - 00;04;45;00
Pri
I know.
00;04;45;03 - 00;05;11;04
Chris
I guess by the time the EP airs, he already will be back. But Jesus is coming, so fair enough. Switching gears, so FCC was last week in cons and I am like trying to figure out was this like a real like if CC sort of thing because it got next to no coverage and all I can remember is last year like it was Collins can't can't can't con.
00;05;11;04 - 00;05;13;05
Chris
So I'm a little confused.
00;05;13;07 - 00;05;38;19
Pri
I feel like it was also because it was like the south of France, and last year everyone was excited that it finally can't. Like the south of France is so much cooler than like Belgium or wherever it was before. But putting that aside, I haven't seen much on my timeline about it either. I did read one. I did read like one recap that I was like, okay, that feels fair.
00;05;38;19 - 00;06;00;23
Pri
I think I sent it to you before the call, but it was I think it was like Marc Zeller or something, basically was like, it was great. Definitely bear market vibes. Fewer people, fewer tourists. The bear market combined with a junta guy has been an extinction event for the crypto job market. Plenty of people are looking for new roles.
00;06;00;25 - 00;06;20;24
Pri
And I think also in the tweet said many people are many companies are running out of money, though they're not admitting it. The next edition should embrace and build an agent truck for speakers who did not make the official schedule, so they can record and video and publish a transcript. So basically he was saying like, no one is actually like listening to the talks.
00;06;20;24 - 00;06;41;04
Pri
They were just like putting their agents like recording it and then like synthesizing the talks, like known as even paying attention to the talks there, which I thought is kind of funny. And honestly, I bet that's a trend that gets spread across, like many conferences, not just UTC. He he did say good things about the youth foundation, and the work that they're doing there.
00;06;41;04 - 00;07;08;13
Pri
Like, it seems like they really have they're really trying and then also said that. What else did he say? Many projects have dropped back to pretending to care about decentralization and the cypherpunk ethos. Yeah, I mean, it was it wasn't necessarily the most copium tweed recap of FCC, but many people have lost faith in faith and tokens, the naive derivative tokens of that substance is dying, and that is for the best.
00;07;08;13 - 00;07;15;25
Pri
I agree with that. I've kind of over that era, but I don't know if you've read any of this of it. Chris, but that was like the best one that I saw.
00;07;15;27 - 00;07;42;24
Chris
No, I had and it was it was just more, I was just noticing the the contrast between last year's trip to cons and this one, and it just felt like this went very, very under the radar. And, you know, I guess the the market conditions certainly have a lot to do with that. I don't know, I was like wondering if maybe it was it just become like, trad embrace of, Wall Street elite event, you know, as well.
00;07;42;24 - 00;08;05;03
Chris
But, you know, I definitely could see the, the market conditions as being a big reason why why things are off. But, I don't know, you know what the other thing I haven't seen a lot of lately is punks. Like, I kind of feel like that node thing may have been, high watermark of maybe a momentary, high watermark, but I feel like punks are really quiet as well.
00;08;05;06 - 00;08;23;23
Pri
Yeah. Why is that? I mean, do you think it's just general NFT like it's a crypto's quiet, and then you could go in a layer deeper. It's even more quiet, like NFTs. Cryptopunks. That's like a layer that's like two layers into the stack of crypto. So like, if crypto at the top feels quiet, then like, I don't know, you know what?
00;08;23;23 - 00;08;26;16
Pri
What happens to everything underneath?
00;08;26;19 - 00;08;51;26
Chris
Yeah. Well, I mean, the NFT space is definitely, you know, dead as a door right now. I, I honestly, I'm not even seeing, like, releases right now. I assume people are releasing work, but it's just, you know, not making it across my desk, and I, you know, I feel like even when things are quiet is usually something every, every other month that catches my eye and, you know, just hasn't been that way.
00;08;51;26 - 00;09;09;23
Pri
So I found home video doorbells draw. I think that me me. When's gallery to be actually very good. I thought that work was very, very good. And then I mean, there's also like all the zero ten Hong Kong stuff that was circulating too.
00;09;09;25 - 00;09;31;28
Chris
Well, zero ten is a great example. Like, yes, I saw some coverage of it. Certainly nothing compared to the scope of Art Basel Miami and so yeah, I do wonder, you know, so some of this is like second time around, obviously. Right. Some of it's got to be the market conditions. And then I don't know, maybe folks are monitoring the situation.
00;09;31;28 - 00;09;48;15
Chris
Maybe folks are just, consuming tokens left, right and center with their agents. Maybe they're, you know, trying to get there early so they can get a good queue up front to listen to, for the Francis's, sermon. Who knows?
00;09;48;17 - 00;10;07;26
Pri
Yeah. No, it's a fair point. I it's hard to know where people's heads are at. I mean, there are still drops. There's still activity. There's still, like, buyers. I just think it's like we've talked about this a lot here, but it does feel like it's like a maturation. A little bit like it feels like it. It's like following a more traditional model.
00;10;07;26 - 00;10;30;19
Pri
Like, this is where I'm actually, like very. I'd be interested. Your thoughts? What? I've been thinking a lot about this. I brought this up on Flamingo this week too. It's just like it feels like a lot of the NFT digital stuff is kind of now merging into, quote, traditional art a little bit more and like this idea of like network permissionless artwork that all lives online, like that kind of ethos that at least got me really excited.
00;10;30;26 - 00;10;57;15
Pri
I think it's still exist, however, it feels a lot quieter and it feels like the the Triad Triad system of art collecting is is consuming a little bit more of like, the digital work. I don't know if that's like a right way of framing it, but even like the market dynamic of like secondary market and all that, and maybe that's again the product of where we are with in the market today, but it doesn't feel like that's getting adopted into the traditional market.
00;10;57;15 - 00;11;14;22
Pri
But the other way around, like the traditional market energy and market conditions and style of collecting is grafting more heavily onto our world than the opposite is kind of how I feel. But guess I can tell that just because of the market and where it's at.
00;11;14;25 - 00;11;39;26
Chris
No, I, I see it as well. And I mean, these are the people who have the money today. These are the people who are still interested. Our audience, you know, for a whole variety of reasons, is out of the game. And these people keep, you know, needing to, to eat, to make work to, to find, you know, acceptance and recognition for what they're putting out there.
00;11;39;26 - 00;12;04;17
Chris
And so it's not it's not shocking, but I guess to see that and only that, you know, is, is a bit of a bummer, because I do think there's a space for, you know, a whole spectrum of participation here and the, the retail or the, the keyboard side of the world. You know, a lot of them are for ripping packs.
00;12;04;19 - 00;12;26;13
Chris
You know, they're collecting Pokemon cards now. And so that that's where some of that energy's gone. I think, you know, there's folks like myself who, they see work and they're attracted to the work. They'll they'll participate, and they're just not seeing it. You know, it's it's a whole, a whole set of issues. But it's also, you know, from, from my point of view.
00;12;26;13 - 00;12;47;18
Chris
And I'm going to preface this by saying, like, I love all these artists, but it's the same 5 to 10 people all the time. Like I was just scrolling the timeline before hopping on and at some digital art awards, and you're looking down the list, you're like, oh, it's a volatile oh, it's no fra. Oh, it's quasi mondo, it's ceremonial.
00;12;47;18 - 00;13;09;12
Chris
It's like, it's just like we're living in a ontology of digital art that just, you know, isn't exactly interesting to me. Like, I've consumed, I've appreciated, I've digested, like I'm in touch with these people's work. And so, you know, that that's another aspect of it as well, is just like, like I'm always pretty clear. Like I thrive on novelty.
00;13;09;12 - 00;13;15;13
Chris
I thrive on being exposed to new things. You know, I do think that's another another factor in all this.
00;13;15;15 - 00;13;34;13
Pri
Is just like getting more new. I mean, do you think part I mean, we've talked again about this, but and this is like not just digital or NFTs. It's just in general, it's like the, the AI stuff is just sucking so much energy is that you just like don't see other things on the timeline, like there is actually decent work here and there.
00;13;34;16 - 00;13;55;07
Pri
It's just not on your timeline as much because the market is slowed down. But be it just, everyone is on the AI train right now, so I don't know. To me it's not like a product of like the work maybe not being there. Yes. It's not at the same cadence. And maybe some of the work is feels like redundant or it's like the same ten artists as you said.
00;13;55;09 - 00;14;09;28
Pri
But I also just think it's like hard to find like it's, it's just it's it's become like niche on the tile timeline. And everyone's obsessed with agents right now. Even like HTC was like all about agents.
00;14;10;01 - 00;14;24;00
Chris
I don't even know what's on the timeline. That's the weird thing is, like, I am probably scrolling the timeline at five x the speed I used to in the past, and it really feels like, I don't know, a church basement flea market.
00;14;24;02 - 00;14;25;01
Pri
Yeah.
00;14;25;04 - 00;14;51;11
Chris
People are like, look at my thing. Here's my art that you've seen a million times before. Like, we've lost that. I don't know that spark or we, you know, we've lost a signal of quality and I understand. I mean, I post way less and I don't put any energy into it anymore because it's it's not worthwhile. Right. And so it's it's that negative feedback loop that is leading to an overall decay across the board.
00;14;51;13 - 00;15;15;20
Chris
And, you know, I don't think it's going to return anytime soon. Like I would say that, you know, the timeline sort of sort of devolved into people who, you know, out of necessity, just keep have to flogged, flogging and chilling, you know, whatever, whatever it is or people who have figured out how to adapt to this, like breathless all caps.
00;15;15;20 - 00;15;39;02
Chris
This changes everything, you know, cracked zoomer style of communication in which, you know, they've got something they're trying to to to shill as well. And so, you know, like, I mean, this is ridiculous. But like I spent more time on the For You page in the following page right now. And again, like I'm only on there because I'm waiting for like, a deployment to land.
00;15;39;07 - 00;15;42;00
Chris
Yeah. And there's nothing I can do for 90s.
00;15;42;02 - 00;15;57;25
Pri
Yeah, I have a thinking. I'm like, why is it that I'm not as engaged as I used to be? Like, have I changed or has the medium changed? Or am I just like, not as interested in it anymore? Like I used to post? Like, I mean used to do like we used to like I feel like I used to tweet like a lot, like any thought I had.
00;15;57;25 - 00;16;16;13
Pri
I would like, tweet. I like barely do that now. Like actually like the other day I was like, I should probably tweet something I haven't in a while. Like it's it's a little bit sad. Like I miss it. I don't know, I think I think you're right. It's like a negative feedback loop. But you're right. It just everyone's just shilling product or like shilling something.
00;16;16;13 - 00;16;21;03
Pri
It's it's like the cooling effect of Twitter and it's like the same shit.
00;16;21;05 - 00;16;38;07
Chris
We live in, we live in dark times. We live in exciting times. But, you know, you can, I don't know, being built those, like, super positions at the same time. And the net effect is, yes, that like, social layer is broken.
00;16;38;10 - 00;17;04;10
Pri
Because I live on new and I get on the path and it's just us. It's like de la ville de ville. Yeah. It's being a do we want to talk about the open ai TVM thing? Because I feel like that is related to social and media and you know, what companies are trying to do here. I thought it was interesting that I mean, for those who haven't seen the news, I feel like it was everywhere yesterday afternoon.
00;17;04;10 - 00;17;36;18
Pri
But like t PBN which is it was actually like ramp backed, but it was basically just like an online live every day network on like tech news and interviews and just like breaking stories about the tech world. And, it's very popular open AI acquired it according to, I think, the Financial Times in the low hundreds of millions, which is pretty good for something that felt like maybe it was like, I don't know, a year and a half old, like it wasn't even that old.
00;17;36;21 - 00;17;39;13
Pri
Yeah, I thought that was interesting strategy by OpenAI.
00;17;39;15 - 00;18;06;03
Chris
It's, very, very toppy. I mean, congratulations to them. First of all, I think anyone who, you know, can create a media outlet, in this day and age, and, you know, have it, have it reach a successful exit, probably played this extremely smart because the shelf life of these things isn't isn't necessarily very long or durable.
00;18;06;03 - 00;18;29;15
Chris
And so, you know, it's not like, a tech acquisition per se, where you wonder, did this person jump too soon? You know, could it, could they have can that had they developed it a little further? I don't think media follows, you know, those same patterns. Like don't you remember when email like email lists are all the rage, like five, five, six years ago or something.
00;18;29;18 - 00;18;49;12
Chris
You know, there were these girl bosses in New York who were, like, killing it. And like, I have no clue whatever happened to that sort of stuff. And so, you know, from from like TV perspective, you know, hats off. I've never watched a second of it. I try to avoid I mean, I enjoy tech is soap opera, but I don't enjoy the video version of that.
00;18;49;12 - 00;19;00;18
Chris
Like it's more, a passive consumption for me. And I kind of I can absorb this stuff very quickly and file it away. I don't need a three hour, Sportscenter style recap show of it.
00;19;00;25 - 00;19;18;03
Pri
Yeah, yeah, but the point it wasn't necessarily like to actually sit there and watch or listen over there. It was just like. It was like they rambled just to get, like, a bunch of clips that they could then later show on every social media platform. It was like it was like always long for more for clips than anything else.
00;19;18;03 - 00;19;22;17
Pri
But yes, I hear your point. Like it's like, that's not, I agree with you on that.
00;19;22;25 - 00;19;55;17
Chris
Yeah. From OpenAI's perspective. Right. This is this is a little, open C ish in terms of, like, conflicting comms in that they're supposed to be focusing. They threw Sora overboard. You know, they they really need to keep up with the anthropic. And it's time to return to mission critical. You know, enterprise, type business lines. And then this pops up right now, I imagine it was in the works for a while and to, you know, walk away from something just because you're pivoting doesn't make sense.
00;19;55;17 - 00;20;20;20
Chris
And that's why it went through, however, you know, like, it's always fun to see, you know, these large tech outfits behave schizophrenic, especially when they're OpenAI, who tends to have a history of being schizophrenic AI. It's probably smart for them in that Sam A is in constant need of money. And this is a show that, you know, captures the allocator demographic fairly well.
00;20;20;20 - 00;20;43;07
Chris
And so, you know that, like I do see, like some strategic synergies here. At the same time, you know, this is kind of like, a YOLO. We're feeling our oats sort of bet. And, you know, I don't I don't really understand, you know, this in like, even like, you know that we are Joni Ivy thing made a hell of a lot more sense than than this does.
00;20;43;07 - 00;20;49;09
Chris
Right? Like, I don't see a product coming out of this. This is just more like we're big and we bought a podcast.
00;20;49;11 - 00;21;09;05
Pri
Yeah, literally. I saw someone tweet like OpenAI. I mean, obviously the taste conversation always comes up, but someone like retweeted the announcer being like OpenAI by taste, which like, I don't know if like TBN is like what I would describe as like like, oh my god, elite taste. But it is like, a legitimate, like tech media outfit and respected.
00;21;09;05 - 00;21;26;27
Pri
And they've done like a fantastic job. So like from that vantage point, it's like, I guess, like if your goal is to like have a microphone that everyone in tech is aware of and at least knows the brand, then I guess it's effective. But like I won hundreds of millions of dollars like that seems like kind of erratic.
00;21;26;27 - 00;21;39;03
Pri
Like, I don't know, especially as they shut down Sora and like, are bleeding money. It is really interesting that they went for this. Do you think this is, like, their intent to, like, buy taste and influence?
00;21;39;07 - 00;22;06;14
Chris
I think it's a measured way to reach a very targeted audience who they want to have mindshare with. And, you know, I don't think it goes much, much further than that. I mean, you really can boil it down to where we're in a race for the future. We're locked in very tight competition. Rewards for winning this are absolutely ginormous.
00;22;06;14 - 00;22;11;29
Chris
And, you know, this was in with Within Reach that that's about as far as they'll go here.
00;22;12;01 - 00;22;41;12
Pri
Yeah. It's interesting I mean like Amy Million which is, you know, well respected fashion brand just bought like Nolita Dirtbag, which is like a popular Instagram profile that like talks about fashion quite a bit. And so it's like, I wonder if we just start seeing a couple of these sub stacks or like, these more home grown media distribution networks just starting to, like, get picked up not just by OpenAI, but like other companies as well.
00;22;41;12 - 00;23;00;02
Pri
So maybe that just trend emerges, like media finally has value because like people are realizing that you need distribution. And so this is one way to do it. In the age of AI, everyone needs distribution. So if you're able to create a successful meme page, maybe you're, you know, you can actually walk away and make a decent amount.
00;23;00;08 - 00;23;02;15
Chris
And that's what we're trying to do here for you, right?
00;23;02;18 - 00;23;09;18
Pri
Yeah. I know who's going to buy net society for hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm waiting.
00;23;09;21 - 00;23;10;18
Chris
Adam Weissman.
00;23;10;20 - 00;23;11;15
Pri
Yeah.
00;23;11;17 - 00;23;24;13
Chris
I don't know. Red Beard Venture capital. Me if it's Co is me if it's Co the the darling we're looking forward to to acquire us through. Ditto if you're out there. Hundreds of millions of dollars, please.
00;23;24;16 - 00;23;33;18
Pri
That would be like, actually a hilarious, tidbit for us is just to start, start shilling some some bags on the podcast.
00;23;33;21 - 00;23;38;22
Chris
We paid an astronomical $1 million per listener, but they were the right listener.
00;23;38;24 - 00;23;40;00
Pri
Yeah, exactly.
00;23;40;05 - 00;23;49;15
Chris
They have tens of eath in discretionary spending power for NFTs and digital collectibles, and we had to get in front of them.
00;23;49;17 - 00;23;53;20
Pri
We did? Yeah. And that's the side news for sale, by the way, if anyone, is interested.
00;23;53;21 - 00;24;10;05
Chris
You only get direct part time. And we have no idea what his, his schedule commitments look like. But the rest of us, we'll we'll kind of show up. I will require severe golden handcuffs to keep. Keep doing the show, but we're here. Go ahead.
00;24;10;07 - 00;24;12;13
Pri
Literally. Yeah, yeah. Someone hire.
00;24;12;13 - 00;24;19;18
Chris
Us. Ontology. A term popularized by talent here. I see that one circulating.
00;24;19;20 - 00;24;22;19
Pri
Yeah. What? What, is that actually true?
00;24;22;21 - 00;24;29;28
Chris
Well, no. Ontology is, you know, existed forever. And it's more of like, sort of the bedrock philosophy.
00;24;30;00 - 00;24;33;01
Pri
Popularized by Palantir of, like what?
00;24;33;03 - 00;25;00;10
Chris
Right. I mean, I guess in that like ontologies, businesses or the classification of things. The best part of that quote, by the way, is I have no idea what the underlying article was. I only saw the screenshot for it. And I think that's a great encapsulation of, how we find our our media bits these days. But I did find that low key hilarious that, you know, on one hand, like, it does make a lot of sense.
00;25;00;10 - 00;25;25;04
Chris
Like, look, if I, if you ask me, like when I was 25, when ontology was, I'd probably shrug, right. Like, it's not it's not the most, I don't know, accessible and common of things. But yeah, in some ways it's kind of like Archimedes screw a technology popularized by Andrew Old, you know, wiki. And it is like a really like, batshit sort of framing.
00;25;25;07 - 00;25;44;22
Pri
But it's it is batshit. I saw that, you know, I was like, honestly, is that is possible that Alex Karp could just be going on interviews, yapping on it and like giving attention to it, you know, like it's that also wouldn't be so unsurprising or like, like required reading. Volunteer if you want to join.
00;25;44;25 - 00;25;53;25
Chris
I mean, it's better that he's out there yapping about ontology than, the weird autistic eugenics that he's got going on as well. So.
00;25;54;02 - 00;25;56;21
Pri
Oh, my God, should we talk about,
00;25;56;23 - 00;26;04;01
Chris
I think we should go there free. It's just you and me, like, you know, the, the nervous nellies are not on the pod to real this in.
00;26;04;03 - 00;26;34;11
Pri
I know, I know, I mean, okay, so is the. So the thesis is basically, I mean, human evolution is we are, as a human species, constantly evolving since basically the beginning of time. And we continue to evolve. Obviously, artificial intelligence is like a piece of that. This is not related to AI and like taking this up terribly, but basically the thesis and I'm kind of like lost in how to explain this in a way that.
00;26;34;13 - 00;26;49;05
Chris
Let's start with what he actually said, which is if you're if you're entering the workforce and you're neurodivergent, you'll do fine. If you're not neurodivergent, you shouldn't go to college and you should enter the trades.
00;26;49;07 - 00;27;23;17
Pri
Right? Okay. Yes. So he said this, that there'll be like two types of people that survive the AI era. One is like the trade, workers, just like electricians, technicians. And then the neurodivergent, which is like ADHD, autism, dyslexia because they think differently and solve problems. This around the of like I think we were talking about this on the 8 p.m. call, but maybe like the potential for like human evolution or evolutionary theory is, like a lot of these neurodivergent people will kind of walk into another human species.
00;27;23;17 - 00;27;40;28
Pri
Is that like fair to, to summarize as like the thinking that, you know, natural selection will opt for the neurodivergent and it could explain why, you know, autism is on the rise and other things is because, like, there's just been a natural selection for that.
00;27;41;00 - 00;27;42;22
Chris
Yeah. I mean.
00;27;42;24 - 00;27;48;03
Pri
It's a little I maybe I'm being a little extreme about it, but that's, that's the thesis. Right.
00;27;48;06 - 00;28;13;11
Chris
That. Yes. And this is a common sci fi trope. Right. This isn't a new thought. This is something that's been floating around forever. If you ever get into, like, any space operas, right, you know, everyone's left planet Earth, and we're like 5000 years in the future. And there's like a species of belters and there's a species of this, and they all trace back to human beings, and they all evolved out into these different branches.
00;28;13;11 - 00;28;36;05
Chris
Right. Like this is a common, you know, plotline in, in speculative fiction, in sci fi. So it's not a new thought. It is, however like extremely dangerous to to play around with. Right. Like and this is, this is just one of those scary things because there's just such a bad history associated with it. And like, look, I'm nerd neurodivergent, right?
00;28;36;05 - 00;28;59;11
Chris
Like I can understand machines really, really well. I feel like I'm in a very advantaged area at the moment. I'm also, like, keenly aware of my weaknesses and things that like, I am just not good at. And like, if you had a society full of me, that's not like a good balance. It's not like, like literally you wouldn't have a society anymore.
00;28;59;12 - 00;29;33;03
Chris
You have a bunch of people, like hanging out in their basements, not interacting. And so and you know, like so that's one part of it. The other part of it is like the tech elite. There's so cringe and off putting to begin with, like, this is really like third rail sort of talk and the smugness of it and the arrogance of it and the like setting yourself up to fall, you know, it's that like whole meme of like, oh, I was, you know, I was 13, I was practicing with the blade and you were doing this, and now you need me.
00;29;33;03 - 00;29;38;04
Chris
And, you know, it's just like, oh, you know, it's scary shit.
00;29;38;06 - 00;30;08;09
Pri
It is, however, and I hear you and yes, we don't want to world. So however like he may not be wrong, like if you can commoditize whatever quote normal human intelligence and I use it in heavy code. But if you basically are able to commoditize like the mid curve of human intelligence, like what does a like leave, then you kind of do need more neurodivergent non AI, non mid curve thinking like he isn't totally off base on this like theory.
00;30;08;11 - 00;30;31;00
Pri
And you know whether or not that that then leads to a different type of natural selection is another. But like he I almost I actually kind of do agree with him. Like I, I wrote like a quick article using it like research this thinking and like it said already that 29% of entrepreneurs have ADHD and then adults with ADHD are six times more likely to start their own businesses.
00;30;31;03 - 00;31;01;06
Pri
Apparently, a fifth of fortune 500 companies are actively recruiting for neurodivergent talent by 2027, and, like enterprise, show that neurodiverse teams are 30% more productive. Even bottom line, thinking like putting aside the, you know, environmental. Like, do we want a society like that? Like, bottom line, capitalistic thinking is like leading one to think that neurodivergent thinking is actually better and people are actively like targeting it.
00;31;01;08 - 00;31;30;20
Chris
If you over optimize for this and you overloaded your teams and you didn't have the right amount of balance, this can backfire very, very quickly. Like my partnerships, right? MIT mobile, there are five of us, you know, our CEO, dyslexic, ADHD or CTO, ADHD. You know, like I, I definitely am like somewhere on the high functioning spectrum.
00;31;30;20 - 00;32;20;09
Chris
And, you know, then we had like two normal dudes and we fought like brothers. We fought all the time, you know, different styles, different communications, like different ways of thinking. It was very, very tumultuous. It it ultimately worked and it was successful. It took a huge and heavy emotional toll on me. But in terms of like just getting the work done, like if you overloaded your teams with people with ADHD and you, you know, like you got to realize, you know, the sort of like the executive functioning and your ability to project plan, your ability to hit timelines like that, that's a skill that's really lacking, you know, with with people who, you
00;32;20;09 - 00;32;24;25
Chris
know, think that way. And so, like, you're playing with fire here.
00;32;24;27 - 00;32;48;26
Pri
Yeah. You can't have all people like that. Like you do need, like, that heavy ops organized person to, like, real in the creativity. I guess the thesis this is like the, I hope you know, is probably pretty good at that. I don't know if that's what he's saying there, but like, I do think that you'll probably need the return on like someone with creative thinking and like neurodivergent thinking is probably higher than someone.
00;32;49;04 - 00;33;11;01
Pri
And like the ability to find people like that is going to be harder than someone who can like real in and orchestrate and set timelines and KPIs is kind of my read, but I do agree with you. Like you can't have a team full of like, neurodivergent thinkers. Like it's just not it'll become like messy and a disaster potentially.
00;33;11;04 - 00;33;44;09
Chris
Yeah. I mean, I don't know, like, is it an advantage? Sure. And have there been like historically moments in time in which small populations have had like a huge impact on future demographics? Sure. Like, you know, if you trace all of our DNA far enough, right, you're going to find like, we all like, hopped out of like the, like, Ukrainian steps in the, Iranian highlands, you know, like there was a moment in time where, like, they figured out, like the wheel in the chariot, you know, over like somewhere, like over in Ukraine.
00;33;44;09 - 00;34;06;09
Chris
And then, you know, the whole world was like to got a little bit of, Ukrainian in them, you know, that was like 5000 years ago. Like, how many cons are there in India right now because of Genghis? Yeah. Palantir, dude. Popularizing ontology and, telling the normies they're never going to get another job. Meanwhile, their whole business line is like spying on the world.
00;34;06;09 - 00;34;06;28
Chris
Like.
00;34;07;01 - 00;34;28;10
Pri
Yeah, it's a little turned off for sure. Like beyond, I will say. I was like, talking to my sister about this, and she's 28, and she's, like, telling me it's like, cool in that gen to like, be no night purge and like, they're like, have some autism, right? Like like, it's like considered like a flex, which is interesting.
00;34;28;10 - 00;34;47;02
Pri
I mean, it is like in Silicon Valley, like you feel like like obviously people who are neurodivergent, like they're considered to be more, you know, a lead in their thinking and at level of execution. But it's just I thought it was interesting that even like younger people outside of the Valley, like, also think like that and are aware of that.
00;34;47;05 - 00;35;08;03
Chris
I guess, you know, it's it's a moment in time. And I also wonder, you know, how, how durable this moment is, like, you know, like my son's, like, goes to the Y, like, hits the gym every day. Now, you know, he's 13. And, like, you know, he's very squarely in the, like, I'm gonna I'm going to get fit.
00;35;08;03 - 00;35;27;05
Chris
I'm going to, going to work out of it. And that's like a huge thing, you know, with like teen boys, like way, way more than in the past. And so or like, here's a ridiculous version of this. You remember, like 21 Jump Street, the remake, right? Or like Channing Tatum goes back to school, he doesn't realize, like, bullying isn't cool anymore.
00;35;27;07 - 00;35;29;03
Pri
Yeah, yeah. You're like, except.
00;35;29;03 - 00;35;37;19
Chris
Now bullying is cool. I mean, I don't think it's cool, but, you know, we we as a nation certainly. Oh come on, like. Yes, yes.
00;35;37;22 - 00;35;40;01
Pri
Yeah, I guess you're right.
00;35;40;04 - 00;35;59;28
Chris
I mean, you know, we're out there like bombing the shit out of everyone. You know, Dragon, Dragon or our opponents through the, the court system, dismissing Defense Department. Investigations of soldiers who, like, take a Blackhawk and hover it outside Kid Rock's house, I don't know.
00;36;00;03 - 00;36;03;05
Pri
Yeah, you're right, you're right. Bullying is back down.
00;36;03;08 - 00;36;21;03
Chris
That that to me, is like, you know, I'm a big, like, dialectic sort of person when it comes to all of this. Everything's a pendulum. And if it swings too far one way, it's kind of swing back and like, you just don't want to get caught out being a complete and total asshole when you know, the pendulum happens to, like, swing in your direction.
00;36;21;09 - 00;36;46;26
Pri
Yeah, I know, I was actually, yeah, I was actually thinking about recently, just more in the context of Silicon Valley and like Marc Andreessen and Dario of, claw because, like, they're both on somewhat opposite ends of the spectrum. And I'm like, you know, Andreessen A16, they kind of came out of this last kind of swing, really like running around like being like, yeah.
00;36;46;26 - 00;37;09;20
Pri
Like we, you know, they were celebrating their, their, I guess, perspectives and point of views and like they kind of saw it. But then I'm wondering like what's going to happen when the pendulum swings closer to like Dario and like, but yeah, it's like that's not going to be great. Like you kind of strategically should just hang around the middle and like or like hang on one side or the other.
00;37;09;20 - 00;37;29;02
Pri
Not like go totally at the edge of the pendulum. I don't know where I'm going with this thinking, but like, it feels like the pendulum could be swinging, or at least moving more to the middle than it did, like a year ago. And I was just like, wondering what's going to happen to those, like, types of people that were really, really vocal.
00;37;29;05 - 00;37;58;16
Chris
Yeah, it's here. Let's try this in a different direction because, it I've been recently made aware that my home state, Massachusetts, the glorious city of Boston, the cradle of Liberty, our economy is in trouble. And that Massachusetts is hemorrhaging and that its competitive advantages have eroded. And like, I kind of knew this, you know, just anecdotally.
00;37;58;16 - 00;38;39;12
Chris
And I certainly knew about Trump's, you know, how dependent that economy is on research funding, healthy universities, etc., etc. and that, like, you know, the funding model changes. The Trump administration not knocked it out, but there's like more going on in there. And, you know, there have been a few articles like really starting the to call out the the choices Massachusetts is making in terms of its priorities around being a business friendly environment or providing a, you know, a real healthy and strong, like social, services, you know, staffing that.
00;38;39;14 - 00;38;40;16
Pri
Yeah.
00;38;40;19 - 00;39;21;16
Chris
You know, and so it's one of these things where, like, I saw this take on Twitter that that really sort of resonated with me, which was like, New England is actually extremely an extremely conservative society in that they want to preserve a middle class way of life. And it was like, now that's actually like was kind of a lightbulb moment for me because it totally rings true, like what New England really want and like, what Massachusetts really wants is like to live in the like the mid 90s, when everyone worked for like Fidelity or State Street or like was a contractor or, you know, like and just like had a house, you know,
00;39;21;16 - 00;39;48;16
Chris
if they did really well, they had a place in the Cape or, you know, a place up on the lake in New Hampshire and like, just wasn't caught in this, like, you know, Darwinian all or nothing, boom, bust. And I think, like their attempts to maintain that way of life and preserve it like is now putting them in a point where, like, they're starting like they're falling off and then their danger of like losing a critical mass around, like their whole economy.
00;39;48;19 - 00;40;11;01
Chris
I don't know, it's just one of those things where like it it sucks when you see this perspective on Twitter because, you know, especially our our neck of Twitter in which, is very like American dynamism and capital allocator focused and like, you know, the whole lens in which they view problems from is can you raise money in this area?
00;40;11;06 - 00;40;35;27
Chris
Can you create businesses that you know, drive employment in this, you know, technology or software sector? And if you can't, you're dead meat. You know, there's there's that extreme, but then, you know, there's more like you're just actually starting to see like long form articles that are looking at this like across the board and viewing it, you know, from like, I guess in Massachusetts perspective, it's a tricky one.
00;40;36;01 - 00;41;10;18
Chris
But like, that's I think another part of this sort of like larger topic we've been talking about, which is what do you optimize for or what do you choose to favor and like, how do you get that balance? Right. Because that that really seems to be like what gets lost in this little shuffle is, you know, just how delicate it is to, I guess, like balance your society or, you know, balance your organization between outliers and like, you know, like the steady drama of, like, getting things done and taking care of people and handling business.
00;41;10;21 - 00;41;33;27
Pri
No, it's true. And it seems like people are just taking the more extreme position on and on these concepts just to kind of somehow meet in the middle, because that's just what you have to do now. And so it makes it very difficult to like, predict when where the pendulum is going to swing as like a result of that because you're just like kind of cosplay, like everyone's like laughing like, we know this, but it just feels like everyone's laughing.
00;41;33;27 - 00;41;38;06
Pri
So you have no idea where people's like, real positions are.
00;41;38;08 - 00;42;09;03
Chris
Yeah. And it's kind of a bummer from Massachusetts because the politically you know, they were for like a long, long time the Democratic machine. And they were a machine of actually like bipartisan dealmaking and like just getting shit done and taking care of business. You know, I know it. No one's really going to call the Kennedy family, like I would say, you know, like, sure, on social issues like they were to the left, but like, you know, like the Kennedys.
00;42;09;03 - 00;42;35;02
Chris
Tip O'Neill. Like a lot of, like that Democratic machine, like they just wanted to do business. And they worked across the aisle all the time. And now you've got, like, the Liz Warrens of the world, right? Like, politically, Massachusetts, you know, is like in this Minneapolis, you know, sort of like orbit of like, rhetoric and grandstanding and like, yeah, that's not going to do any damn good.
00;42;35;05 - 00;42;52;11
Pri
And like, people don't really care for it or like it. Did. You see like Rahm Emanuel's like randomly like coming out of the woodwork talking about this problem a little bit and then like, just like Democrats losing the plot a little bit, I don't know, I like saw it on my timeline quickly, but it just kind of reminds me of what you're saying.
00;42;52;13 - 00;42;52;22
Pri
Yeah.
00;42;52;22 - 00;43;17;03
Chris
Rahm's one of those like, you know, maybe he's got like a Carville type arc, you know, that he needs to, serve that role of, like, the real politic, the brass tacks, like, you know, we got to get shit done and like, you're you're gearing out in your own bubble into unappealing places. Like, I think he serves a purpose in that respect as a politician.
00;43;17;05 - 00;43;32;07
Chris
I mean, you know, like, he doesn't do anything for me. He had a shot at running Chicago. He did a good job of it. You know, he was, Obama's right hand man and policy architect and like, you know, like you're a host of vaporware.
00;43;32;09 - 00;43;40;27
Pri
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's probably better at more at politicking than actually being a politician. But his read on the situation I thought was like, fair.
00;43;41;00 - 00;43;44;29
Chris
I would argue they're all better at politicking than being a politician.
00;43;45;02 - 00;43;46;25
Pri
That's true. That's like you're that's.
00;43;46;25 - 00;43;48;09
Chris
Part of the problem.
00;43;48;11 - 00;43;52;13
Pri
Yeah. Yeah, I agree we need new people.
00;43;52;15 - 00;44;04;14
Chris
A big no no one's ever going to die. No one's ever going to go away. My son's rewatching Seinfeld now. No new shows are ever going to happen. This is it, Cory. You're just in a giant cage, Seinfeld.
00;44;04;14 - 00;44;06;23
Pri
Like, what? Is it entertaining for him?
00;44;06;25 - 00;44;24;28
Chris
He is, like, working his way through. I'm just like the sitcom canon. Like he did. How I Met Your Mother. Like the full freaking show prior to this. Like, this is just he's been doing this for a couple of years now. I started with The Office, The Simpsons. Yeah, I know it is really weird, right?
00;44;24;28 - 00;44;40;07
Pri
Like the Seinfeld, like, you know, and I'm like, I don't want to watch this show. It's like, not funny. Like, I don't care for this. I know why people assume it's to say, but, like, I just like, I like, love Julia Louis-Dreyfus. It's like, don't even think it's that good of a show to me anymore.
00;44;40;11 - 00;44;52;11
Chris
I don't know, does it feel dated? Do not like the humor anymore. Is it just you had so much of it as a kid. What? What's he like on Seinfeld for you? Is it Jerry himself?
00;44;52;14 - 00;45;01;17
Pri
Jerry? Like I like you know, I like I mean, it's still an objectively good show, but just, like, I guess maybe just hasn't aged as well for me. Like, I just don't find it as funny.
00;45;01;19 - 00;45;21;22
Chris
Okay. And sometimes I think maybe it's because, like, the influence of these things, like, rubs off on so many other stuff that like when you actually go back to the source, you're just like, it's not novel, it's not fresh because it's, you know, because it became like so popular. Yeah, that's one way I think of it. It's also like Seinfeld never really died in a way.
00;45;21;22 - 00;45;39;14
Chris
You got Veep, you got Larry David, you know, you got curb and so the Seinfeld universal is just kind of like continues onwards. Yeah. But yes, like, I mean, the sitcom format, right? Is I'm trying to remember, like the last original sitcom I watched.
00;45;39;17 - 00;45;40;18
Pri
And I think.
00;45;40;21 - 00;45;46;12
Chris
I'm sure I've seen one in the last five years. I'm sure I've only seen a season or two of it.
00;45;46;14 - 00;45;48;09
Pri
That's a really good question.
00;45;48;12 - 00;45;54;03
Chris
You know, where like, the sitcom sort of ended for me, I never understood Arrested Development.
00;45;54;05 - 00;45;56;24
Pri
Oh, I love Arrested Development.
00;45;56;26 - 00;46;08;28
Chris
Love. Is this a millennial? Gen X thing is an I can't do awkward humor, by the way. That's like another like I can't really do Ben Stiller, for instance. Like what? What is it about like 80 that was so great for you?
00;46;09;01 - 00;46;37;01
Pri
The characters are like kind of like ridiculous. I mean, like, the jokes were great, like situational humor was pretty funny too. Like, just like the situations that were put in. I mean, I thought the writing was really good to like, the writing was just great. I think the shows. So that was like probably it that in Peep Show and like Veep or probably like my like three favorite comedy shows, like I love arrested on and but maybe it's like very millennial coded actually.
00;46;37;04 - 00;46;51;13
Chris
Yeah, I'm not sure. But there was definitely like a branch of things that I just couldn't get with. And like Seth McFarland, was another one. Like, just none of that stuff landed for me. It was too ADHD.
00;46;51;15 - 00;46;56;29
Pri
Yeah. Wasn't there, like a good South Park episode making fun of, like, the genius of family Guy?
00;46;57;04 - 00;47;15;03
Chris
I, I imagine I, I don't know, maybe I tuned out in South Park in like year seven or something like that, and I remember saying to myself at the time, it will always be there. You know, at some point in your life you'll like break a leg or like you'll be, you know, you'll just have like copious amounts of free time.
00;47;15;03 - 00;47;24;27
Chris
You can go back and kick South Park up. And then Self-parking never left. And so now the idea of like, resuming South Park when there's like 13, 14 more years of it. I knows how long it's wrong.
00;47;24;29 - 00;47;27;17
Pri
It is actually crazy how long that show has run.
00;47;27;19 - 00;47;30;16
Chris
And they're way behind The Simpsons. It's just still chugging along.
00;47;30;22 - 00;48;08;23
Pri
I know I actually read like a really interesting article too. Speaking of I, and like Trey Parker and Matt Stone of South Park, that I think, I don't know if I shared it with you, but like, I was sharing it with a few people, but basically they like accidentally like back ended into like an AI production studio called Deep Voodoo and it raised actually a ton of money, but basically, like what they're trying to do, they think like AI, which we all know is going to like, usher in a new age of creativity where they're basically like layering, like deepfakes and stuff so that they basically do a bunch of like the viral projects.
00;48;08;23 - 00;48;32;25
Pri
So like they did one on the Kendrick Lamar music video where his face morphs into OJ Simpson. They did like something on Bill Clinton in Ted. They've done like another thing for dunking notes. So they like basically just deepfake and add AI to these different things because they're very good at it. But apparently they're like crushing it. Like they are like the generative AI Hollywood company, which is like hilarious.
00;48;32;25 - 00;48;38;22
Pri
Like, I wouldn't have thought that for them. But anyways, just side tangent. So just thinking about them this week, I wonder.
00;48;38;25 - 00;48;46;10
Chris
Yeah, I wonder how much of that. Like there's definitely certain name recognition advantages. And those guys are gold mine.
00;48;46;17 - 00;48;47;08
Pri
Yeah.
00;48;47;11 - 00;49;08;02
Chris
They also had the streaming rights for South Park was up for renewal. That was like a big bidding war. I wonder, you know, how much of like, this is adjacency to the rest of, you know, their business lines and how much of this is like this? Is the studios actually really good? Or like, maybe there is no intersection between those two things, but it is.
00;49;08;04 - 00;49;32;16
Chris
I don't know how to say this one. Right. Like the idea that guys have been like using Korean animators for like 20, 30, however many years now to crank this shit out. And, you know, they just roll over and I, you know, it's just like this dominance of name brands, even as new fields are opening, you know, like we're just like trapped in these sort of like networks.
00;49;32;16 - 00;49;36;02
Pri
Who, you know, it's small at the top, as they say.
00;49;36;04 - 00;49;44;21
Chris
And by the way, this is the problem, right? If you stack the entire world with neurodivergent people, none of these people are going out and making these connections.
00;49;44;24 - 00;50;05;21
Pri
Yeah, there's no sales. There's no sales people, I guess online, though, like, so much of like people like I feel like there's so many success. People that like, are they live in random places or whatever, but their connection to the internet has, like their network connectivity online has like helped them in their careers and make money and so on.
00;50;05;23 - 00;50;19;17
Chris
Yeah, I mean, I think that was, a great, you know, force multiplier for crypto certainly was that it was a substrate for a lot of talent to attach itself to. Yeah, because it fit their lifestyle or it fit their personality.
00;50;19;19 - 00;50;20;19
Pri
100.
00;50;20;22 - 00;50;45;14
Chris
But then I think we saw, you know, the downsides of that, right? Once the assets required, you know, maybe, a broader set of skills or, you know, deeper web of relationships or actually like sticking to your commitments and executing versus having a meet a manic fever dream of ideating and creating a white paper and fundraising. Right. Like you got to show up every day and you got to deliver.
00;50;45;21 - 00;51;04;21
Pri
Yeah. It's true. I mean, yeah, I think I told this I was watching like Silicon Valley, but that like one nerdy guy. I've been rewatching it like, obviously what's his name? The CEO is like the huge nerd. And then like, you have that one guy who just like, does like the gap analysis and like, all the operational work, like, that's like the ideal combo.
00;51;04;24 - 00;51;09;12
Chris
Yeah. Yes. I can't remember, like, the names of these characters anymore.
00;51;09;14 - 00;51;11;10
Pri
I don't either. I'm like, you know that guy?
00;51;11;12 - 00;51;22;20
Chris
Like, I remember Gilfoyle, I remember Dinesh, I remember TJ Burke. I don't remember his real name or his character name. Manner dozen listeners are going to be loving this segment right now.
00;51;22;23 - 00;51;30;26
Pri
Yeah. It's right. We can we can move on. It's a fun rewatch. It's aged surprisingly well. Richard Hendricks and Jordan, those are the two I'm thinking of.
00;51;30;26 - 00;51;32;29
Chris
I like, okay. Yeah.
00;51;33;02 - 00;51;34;14
Pri
Anyways, where are we now?
00;51;34;16 - 00;51;45;01
Chris
We're like literally right at the hour mark. I think we've done our service. I think we have, like, gallantly filled in for people who can't be bothered to show up.
00;51;45;03 - 00;51;48;12
Pri
No, I think hopefully that's not terrible.
00;51;48;12 - 00;51;54;24
Chris
Listen, welcome to Net Society where we get the let out what sitcom talk of the 90s ahead.
00;51;55;01 - 00;52;19;21
Pri
Okay. Well, actually, I'll introduce it. Hey, everyone, welcome to Net Society. It's me and Chris today on Good Friday and Passover. Just as a quick reminder, these thoughts and opinion opinions are our own and not of our employer. And none of this is financial advice.