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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Ep. #185: Rob Ayala and Hamlet Paredes In Studio (w/ Bond Roberts 109 & Bond Roberts Fenómenos, Fabrica5 Blending & QC, Bond Roberts Auction Impact, Brilliance of Honduran Tobacco & Current/Future State of Cuban Cigar Market)
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Gizmo: [00:00:00] Welcome to a very special episode of The Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo.
Tonight I'm joined by Rooster Senator Pagoda, Grindr, chef Ricky, and bam bam, a full house of lizards. And our plan is to smoke cigars with two very special guests, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 185th official limitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard.
Plan to meet this here once a week. We welcome our friends, Rob Ayala of Friends of El Hano and Bond Roberts and Cuban Legend and Master Blender Hamlet Tis for an in-studio conversation to discuss all things Fabrica. Five, blending quality control, the Honduran parallels to Cuban tobacco and the current state of the Cuban cigar market, all among a variety of other things for the next two and a half hours.
So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar. Enjoy as we [00:01:00] smoke the Bond Roberts 109 and the Bond Roberts Fenómenos. Alright, boys, A very special night on the podcast. Tonight we are here with two very, very, very, that's three very bam, correct special guests. Rob Ayala, friends of El Habano and Bond Roberts fame.
Bam Bam: Love you, Rob. Cigar Maven.
Gizmo: Love you, Rob. If you call him on
Bam Bam: the ad now, now we have to say we love you. Ham Lito.
Gizmo: Okay. And Cuban Master Blender. Legend. Yes, sir. Hamlet Pertti. Correct. Who's that? Me. Welcome gentlemen.
Rob Ayala: Welcome. Great to be here. Thank, I can't
Gizmo: believe, let's start with this. I can't believe that we are sitting at our home base here at 10 86 in Hawthorne, New Jersey with Cigar royalty.
Cigar Royalty from both Brisbane, Australia and Fort Myers, Florida, now down in the south of Florida, but originally from Cuba, of course, originally from Havana. What an unbelievable weekend we have had together trying an obscene amount of cigars. I think. What, how many cigars do you think we smoked Rob?
15, 20.
Rob Ayala: [00:02:00] 15 to 20 cigars. Have the per
Rooster: day. I mean, I was there for 13 hours yesterday. That was the longest time I've ever spent at the lounge.
Gizmo: We know it's been, uh, it's been a really wonderful weekend of tasting prototype cigars that Hamlet has blended, some of which both Hamlet, Rob and Rob Fox, who was also here from JJ Fox at Dublin.
They were also trying them for the first time together. So it was really a great experience for us. But there was also this kind of. You know, uh, experience watching them taste these cigars for the first time together. So there was a lot of learning, a lot of, uh, great flavor, a lot of good conversation and, and a couple arguments, which is okay.
It, it must've been
Rob Ayala: harrowing for you to look at that. Mm-hmm. That, um, professional tasting period that Foxy, myself and Hamlet had yesterday. Yeah, it is, it is. And I think I said yesterday that it really is about bringing out prototype cigars. And it's always easy for us to smoke cigars between Hamlet, [00:03:00] myself and Foxy.
But to be able to do it in amongst your group at 10 86, which is brilliant, and to trial the effect of these little race cars. And we trial 'em around everybody and we bring it back into the pits and we ask, is this exactly what we want? And we'll trial it again. We'll bring 'em out again. So much fun. And I learned so much the last two days, and I learned so much of that because we're with you guys.
And that was special for us. Thank you.
Gizmo: Awesome. Well, we are highly honored.
Senator: We're sorry we were so light on opinions on all the cigars.
Gizmo: So let's get started here. Boys. We all have a Bond. Roberts, I, I don't know if I would call this a prototype, right? This is a final production ready cigar that is coming into production, correct?
Uh, both of them. We have the Bond Roberts 109, which I've been talking about now, I guess going on two years since I first had it, which was my favorite cigar of 2023. I can't wait to have these in my humidor. And we also have a new massive 54 ring gauge by seven and three [00:04:00] quarters Fenómenos. A new vitola created by Fabrica five, correct?
Rob Ayala: Correct. I saw this for the first time. Hamlet brought it to Hong Kong for Foxy myself. Um, I think it was Oscar at the time, to smoke. And I hate cigars of this size. I really do, except I was blown away by this, this guy. And sometimes you smoke a cigar and you think, I don't know how I'm gonna fit this into the, to the profile or to our product mix, but I had to, uh, and I looking forward to those who have one of these tonight to actually smoke it again and to give us your feedback.
Gizmo: Alright boys, well let's cut this thing. So we're getting another cold draw and the wrapper, so to me
Hamlet Paredes: is, it's been crazy to achieve. In this last three days, because normally when you go to a, I've been doing this for a long time, for [00:05:00] many years, but what you guys got in that private club, and I'm talking about premium private club in terms of knowledge, acceptance, like conversations.
You don't find that anywhere. So, and you guys made me feel so comfortable to be like last night that I said, you know what, tell me whatever you wanna tell me, take out your freaking jacket jerks and tell me, chew me. And, and that's good because that's the best way to know what you're doing, right? Run. And then I'm listen to you, to you, to everybody.
And I'm like, [00:06:00] well, you know what? Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah. Let me fix this here or there. So, and we go to the moment with the senator. So Hamlet, the one that I'm speaking that's, thank you for making that clear. That's bog. Yes. That's so Hamlet from on a la Do fan. So here we go. Hey, so you wanna beat that? Okay.
But I'm talking to the senator and I I can, I can work you to the point that I did last night that I make you so comfortable to get out of your
polite way and be yourself. And I got you last night. You did. It doesn't take a lot. I did, but you did. I was gonna say, are we talking about the same guy?
Gizmo: No, no, no, no. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. You know what I mean? For sure. He's never polite. I know what you're talking about,
Hamlet Paredes: but you know what guys in the way that [00:07:00] he did?
No. Sure. The conversation that we were having, he was freaking amazing blender to consumer. How many times you do that? Yeah. It's an incredibly rare experience. How many times you, you can talk to the guy that blend. Size and be like, well, you know what, I think you made a mistake and this and this and that.
And I'm like, okay. Yeah, I I can get that. Rob, you
Senator: can put me on the payroll any day
Rob Ayala: if you want me to. Rob. Rob. Seems confused. Whoa, whoa. So Senator, you actually said he made a mistake. I got away with it. You actually got away with it. Well done. Well done.
Senator: No, it was amazing. I mean, for me, exactly to your point.
We never get to sit face to face with a blender and in a brutally honest, candid way, have a conversation that involves critiquing a blend. And I think it was so funny because [00:08:00] your impression of me may have been early on a little different in the sense that everything we were trying, these prototypes were home runs.
I mean, we were loving a lot of what we were smoking. So it was constant praise really throughout the conversation. And we got to one particular cigar that is a little polarizing among some of us. And uh, like you said, you created an environment where you were willing to have an honest conversation. But
Hamlet Paredes: you know what I did with you?
You know what I did was like I said, Senator, get a cigar. I go, one, let's smoke it together and let's see. But you think about it and still on thinking, let me take in whatever you think about it. And I did.
Senator: It was different.
Hamlet Paredes: Yeah.
Senator: And I started brutally honest, and then we got into the kinda why I was feeling the way I was.
And I think that's where we found some common ground where we may have different opinions of the cigar overall, but some of the things that led me to my conclusion, you yourself even said, [00:09:00] I can see why you feel that way. And, um, it'll be fun to see if there are any tweaks the in the future. No,
Rob Ayala: he, he took it on board because he was crying all the way home senator.
And, uh, that was, and by the way, that's Rob talking.
Gizmo: Alright boys, let's like these cigars. We have two in the room tonight. We have the Bond Roberts 109 beautiful cigar. And we have the Phenomenos, which is a new vitola created by the fabric of five gentlemen that are here with us tonight. And these cigars are both gonna be coming into production.
I think the 109. Rob is coming next month. 109 gets launched in about three weeks. Excellent.
And then, uh, the phenomenos, I guess is gonna come some point later this year. Earlier phenomenon,
Rob Ayala: we're looking at November of this year. Excellent. Uh, for a Middle Eastern launch. What a beautiful beginning to this one.
Hamlet Paredes: Wow. Yeah. Great. Start in the 109 year. So guys, guys, uh, I blend a few cigars in my life. Just a few. Okay. He's always telling me every [00:10:00] time I plant cigar, any size, this is the best one to plant. This is the best one. But to me the one line
is for me. The best one I ever blended. And the second one is phenomenal. When you get a cigar that have the room in the ring gauge to work in the blend and you develop, that
is amazing. It's hard. Normally you got in the big ring ages a flat flavor, so you just had that with the BK 58. I just want to shut up right now. I gonna put my mic outside of my mouth. I want you to enjoy this [00:11:00] scar and I will be listening and saying, you are welcome.
Gizmo: Well, this is off to a great start here.
My 109, this is just as I remember it from two years ago. I told Rob and Hamlet this two years ago. I thought that this was the best cigar that had been rolled by Fabrica five, blended by Hamlet. I just think it's brilliant. Obviously we're gonna experience that tonight, but to taste it again and it to be as I remembered, maybe even a little better is incredible because this is going to be a fan favorite.
Rooster: How long have these been sitting
Rob Ayala: around? The, these are, these one, oh nines are from the, our current factory. So the ones that you've got in your hands, we actually made specifically for this
Hamlet Paredes: close to 11 days. So can I, can I, can I can, can I get the mic again? So we are like 1, 2, [00:12:00] 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. So we are, I want you to feel this, you gotta join this, but the only nine people in the world are smoking this right now. Wow. Or whatever. We did Senator for the last two days and I'm so proud. Listen, I've been all over the world doing smoking, hanging out with people.
We were sharing the sink, the sinking that for you guys, we got so, so surprised that how much of a good value of people you are. And it's true. Man. We have to give you this and we love, and maybe you want to do this, but I maybe do now, but man, I have to say you've [00:13:00] been. I'm not just saying like, you pick us up and brought us to the hotel and No, no, no.
The whole journey, it regard us a whole journey. And the brotherhood is a whole journey. And to be able to open yourself to people that you want the feedback. It doesn't happen every time. I'm just telling you, you guys are, you, you need it. I don't know how the hell you do this. I don't know. But don't change anything.
Just keep it the way you are. Be yourself. Um, smoke cigars, good cigars, and no matter where they came from, and that's it. But it's, it's weird to find a bunch of people, [00:14:00] so many people that share that together. And I mean, I, I was blow up like I, I'm, and, and a very easy guy to read the people in a crowd. I was so comfortable.
I feel myself that I know you for 20 years and that's a freaking good feeling to have.
Gizmo: I
Hamlet Paredes: agree. I agree. We were talking, we were talking last night. I think maybe you feel the same way. Yes, we do. We do. We do. And we just know each other for like two days. Yeah. And when that happens, ever, there's nothing wrong.
Rob Ayala: No, I I, I've actually, I've actually known you for 25 years and, and two days would be a really, so, I'm sorry, big improvement. Rob. Rob by
Hamlet Paredes: is talking right now,
Rooster: Rob, he's known you for 25 years, but he's saying it feels like only two days.
Hamlet Paredes: [00:15:00] Really?
Bam Bam: It's not a bad thing.
Hamlet Paredes: No. What I, what I mean is I, I got, I got the, the experience that he did, he, he doesn't have, I got the 10 years experience and it happens to me sometimes so many times around the country in 10 years, but never with nine people.
But I mean, the nine people that we here right now is the podcast, but the club guys that they're not here. It's the same. Yeah. So, and I'm very honest. I'm very honest. Um. Chuck. I'm like, wow, man. Like, it's so good to, to have people that really got behind the mic and say something That makes sense. [00:16:00] I love you guys, so I I love you.
Harry's
Rob Ayala: going around now giving everyone a hug and, and as we, as we get our tissues and and our eyes, it's gonna put us in tears. Exactly. Right. So, very
Hamlet Paredes: honest with you, man. Mm-hmm.
Rob Ayala: Honestly, love to get your ideas about the opening of
Bam Bam: these cigars. So we're both smoking, we're all smoking two different cigars here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. About half and half. What are you smoking,
Rob Ayala: Rob? I'm smoking the phenomenon. That's what, that's what I have. Same here. Yeah. Quite
Bam Bam: nice. Earthy minerally and a and a touch of sweetness.
Rob Ayala: That sweetness really hitting the opening for me. Yeah. Right away. Opening there. And, and the cigar needs to, needs to really introduce itself in that opening line.
This is what, this is what I'm about. I'm gonna take you on a journey. Yeah. But it's got it. All cigars to me need to start with an opening, um, and introduce themselves.
Pagoda: Absolutely. This was fantastic. In fact, like as on the cold draw, um, I got a little bit of, uh, [00:17:00] tea and, which I don't know, and. A little bit of a niece on the back, but then I, I felt that it was candy Denise.
It was sweet with a little bit of anise left. It was just really, really, Rob, did you spread, did you spread the
Bam Bam: tobacco last night? 11 days? It was, it was, it was
Pagoda: really, it was really spectacular. It was, it's been fantastic. So on the 109 for me, uh, the immediate thing that I, you know, remember from a few years ago smoking this was that salty thing that was happening on the cold draw.
Gizmo: And then what's beautiful is it just the touch of that carries into the actual flavor on the palate. And I love that so much. That's, I, I want to call it that Cuban ish twang thing, but it's rounded out by a very sweet, delicious cigar. I think I said this two years ago. I know this is gonna be the highest of compliments to you, Hamlet.
This to me is the luan killer from Cuba. [00:18:00] This is another level. Don't, don't, don't, don't,
Hamlet Paredes: don't, don't, don't go there. Don't, don't say that. I was getting close to the one line, to me is the number one blend I did for me, and I kill it. And you know, guys, you don't understand what I'm feeling. You never will.
Dealing with people that only smoke Cuban cigars in the daily basis. And I'm blending a cigar that make you confused with a Cuban blend. We have nothing at all of a Cuban tobacco and you put it in your everyday smoking. So God bless you and God bless more all guys. FOH, the noodle [00:19:00] Bonde rovers, everybody, whoever enjoy a cigar that I blend, that have a comparation point to a Cuban cigar because everybody does it.
And it's like, you know what? It's not a Cuban, but it's very close. I take it so you know what that means to me, the whole universe. So I love you guys. Honestly, it's
Rob Ayala: interesting at, in the process that we go through, it's never in my mind to replicate a Cuban cigar. I know what I love. I. I know what I want.
You mentioned George, the, the, the saltiness and the sweetness to me that automatically I think about when you say those two words to me, it's San Panza. Mm. And in, in those two words, I know that [00:20:00] Hamlet's favorite cigar out of Cuba has always been the Lua.
Bam Bam: Yes.
Rob Ayala: And so when we, when we start the process, we have a benchmark that we're trying to achieve.
And if for a cigar of the 109 size, or even the Phenomenals, which is a slightly obviously larger cigar, we think of the partis, Lucy, Tania, as a benchmark and the flavor profiles that are there. And then we look at the raw materials that we have and what we can achieve in the flavor profile with those raw materials.
And we do our best not to imitate, but to produce a world-class cigar that delivers the same utility, the same experience at, at value for money in these days. Uh, and I think that's what we're trying to achieve.
Pagoda: I, I think what's been fantastic has been that for us, like, at least for me, I think. I've never been chaing any of the Hindu tobacco at all.
And you know, I used to smoke also much more stronger cigars and [00:21:00] a little more, you know, I just liked, uh, the Nicaragua flavor profile for a reasonable amount of time. And, um, and then over a period of time, you know, my palate has, you know, uh, like, uh, Steve aka said that you go all the way, uh, to the top and then you come back down.
And my palate's been evolving and I've been coming down. And over the last year, a year and a half, I've been enjoying a lot of the Cuban Cuban profile tobaccos. And then just getting the opportunity to experience, I think yours is one of the first cigars, and maybe they're another couple of brands, uh, you know, which are being able to take the Honduran tobacco and make it so successful in terms of trying to achieve.
And this is what my question was gonna be, is that what you set out to do or not? But it does feel like a very, very Cuban esque flavor profile. And you've been able to do that successfully, I think
Rob Ayala: in, in terms of, well, in terms of FOH, we were friends of Haos until we got the legal letter from Haos [00:22:00] who said the champion Cease and desist.
Yeah, cease and desist letter. So now we're friends of El Hano, you bastards. And, and, and so by doing that, I, we already have a, a base of 28,000 people. We smoke Cuban cigars all the time. We smoke 'em all the time.
Pagoda: Yeah.
Rob Ayala: And so our background, Robbie Fox's background, Hamlet's background is Cuban tobacco. Sure.
It's Cuban cigars. That's what we've got brought up on. And so when we, when Hammy goes into the blending process, when we go into the design process, when we go into the discussion process, we know what we love. And what we're trying to do is, again, I hate that word replicate 'cause I think that sells us short and it sells Cuba shot.
And what we're trying to do is, is make cigars that we grew up with, make cigars that we have shared with friends for so many years that so, so flavor profiles make cigars that we, that put a smile on our face, but not necessarily a dent in our pocket. And that's so important for us. [00:23:00] It's gotta be value, it's gotta be utility that you're receiving.
Gizmo: It's always felt that, and you know, I, I've been lucky to have been smoking these, you know, longer than some of the other guys at the table. And Go ahead, Ben. I wonder why global. Inside. Inside. But for me it's always felt that, that it's not imitation, it's not, uh, copying, it's honoring exactly what you're saying, what, what you love about Cuban flavors, but also the value component, the consistency in the construction, which we know is not a component of cubit cigars.
Right? That's just, everybody accepts that. I think everybody would accept that, who smokes Cuban cigars. So I think that, you know, it's, it's really an honoring of the, the, the best of those values that you find in a great Cuban cigar and those moments, but improving on all of those other things, including flavor, I would argue, especially in this cigar that I have in my hand right now.
I mean, it's really, it's the next level. The so, and I think
Hamlet Paredes: it's [00:24:00] the future. I'm the one that suffers the most.
Gizmo: Rob your thoughts?
Hamlet Paredes: Well, you
Gizmo: know, group, do we have two violins please?
Rob Ayala: We're talk. We're talking about one of the great martyrs of the cigar world. Two of the great martyrs right here. Bam.
Senator: I can't imagine what it's like to smoke 10, one oh nines a day.
Yeah, that's also true.
Hamlet Paredes: Just smoking in one line. That's right. And nailed it on the first blend. So can I curse you or not? Absolutely. Of course. So I fucking just did that. Wanna say f Fuck Yeah,
Bam Bam: if he can curse, I can curse. Okay. Yeah. So go, go ahead. I want a curse. I want you to curse. I want you to curse.
He's too polite.
Hamlet Paredes: I know that. So correct. So you motherfuckers you, it took 15 minutes. Honestly, honestly, how many people were here? Seven of us. Nine. [00:25:00] Okay. Total. Not only me, not only eight, seven of us. Seven. Seven, seven. So, so you seven people are judging in front of me. What? It took me so long to create from scratch.
So while you're smoking right now, I just want to bring you to the very bottom of this while you're smoking. It didn't says I create it, I form it. And now we are enjoying this. It's okay. We testing, we, we like it, we don't like it. But that's, that's what you you doing now. We don't like it. We love it. Well, it started off well.
No, no,
Rob Ayala: for God's sake. Listen,
Hamlet Paredes: listen, listen. No, for God's sake,
Rob Ayala: someone don't like [00:26:00] it. That's what I wanna say.
Hamlet Paredes: Come on, come on. Don't, don't go that way. I'm very open to listen to, but what I'm trying to say here is like, how many times can you do this to actually open your soul and said, you know what? To the guy that make it in front of him and you know, these guys don't gonna be off.
Or I think I scarred Hamlet last night. No, no. And, and, and using Senator, the sample of last night, and that's what Fabrica five is. We come to you and we ask you, we smoke a cigar with you and listen to your feedback, and we visit it the way you want it. That's what we do.
Rob Ayala: Only if we agree. And I think that's a key point.
[00:27:00] And that takes a lot of time, that that's a key point. So when you're testing cigars with, with great people who you respect and, and you're all wholly respected.
Bam Bam: Yes, man.
Rob Ayala: However, if, if we, if we don't agree and we had this great discussion last night, Senator, then we'll keep it the same. But you brought up some fantastic points and certain Es that we were, we were prototyping and we both agreed on it because we were smoking side by side.
And the fact that I can sit down with you at the same point of a cigar and we're both going through the same experience and then we, we we're, we're just discussing as to how we could tweak this.
Hamlet Paredes: But he doesn't know the word. React with him last night. That wasn't me. You know, you made me to be the way you were talking to me.
I just go. And the way
Rob Ayala: you, you senator, you connected with [00:28:00] him, right? You did. You did. I'm gonna make you his mind, brothers brother. You
Hamlet Paredes: did?
Rob Ayala: Yeah. I'm gonna make you his mind for the rest of the time. And, and,
Hamlet Paredes: and I make you because that's what I like. I like to people to be comfortable enough to tell me the way they, they feel.
Rob Ayala: Please take over that role and from here on in, because it is a challenging role, discussing blends and discussing how we improve it. And ham and I have very similar tastes. Very similar tastes. However, you know, we butt heads all the time. We had, we, you and I, I know have got very similar tastes. Yeah.
Senator after last night and the last and the day before. It's so good. So now you
Hamlet Paredes: like Senator better than me.
Rob Ayala: What's
Hamlet Paredes: going on? I love George. Josh, I love you man. But my favorite is. Bam. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. He's everybody's favorite. Thank you. [00:29:00]
Gizmo: Alright, so Rob, we can have you here and not talk about FOH Cuban cigars.
Sure. And I think, you know, the last time you were here, this is crazy, we did a virtual conversation, if you believe it, two and a half years ago.
Rob Ayala: Wow.
Gizmo: November, 2022, and how things have changed since then. Right. So, I, I look at, I, I look at what you are, you're doing with FOH Bond Roberts, Fabrica five, and you're at this really interesting intersection of, you know, current, you know, run of Cuban cigars, available for sale on FOH, obviously Bond Roberts.
You've created this platform for folks to transact, you know, vintage boxes, boxes that are privately held, like an auction site, of course. And you've found this Cuban esque flavor profile in these brilliant non Cuban cigars coming out of Honduras that you, that you're making. And I just wonder, going back five, six years, when you conceived all these things, were you like an oracle that you saw this, you had this like crystal ball, that [00:30:00] you saw this chaos coming and you effectively solved for three of those things, especially here in the us Right?
Because FOH is now after some of those retailers have stopped shipping here, FOH is one of the last remaining trusted, directly sourced haos. Retailers that's available to us. Yeah. Bond Roberts puts vintage cigars in our hands that, that that platform we can transact with one another. And then Fabrica five, filling the gap of value and availability and affordability and great flavor.
I Are you like a sage or something? A sooth? Sarah
Rob Ayala: Sage, an oracle. No. Even a broken clock's, right. Twice a day. Um, no. It, the world moves so quickly in cigars and I, I've been involved since 1996 in the world of cigars, and I've made some great friends, many great friends during that period of [00:31:00] time and great friends in the industry.
We, we just have FFOH is my soul. FOH is where everything started. FOH is where so many of my friendship groups and friendship groups have been made through FOH around the world. And I, I gr I, I, I got a great understanding through FOH of how important community is, how important friendships are in the scale world.
And I saw it again last night in the lounge, in the, in the night before. And, and it's something that I prize and treasure and will never forget. When we started Bond Roberts, it was simply because Robbie Fox and I saw an opportunity. That we could provide a platform where the greatest source of aged and vintage cigars are actually held in private hands.
So how do you unlock that potential [00:32:00] into a world market that was fairly easy. Ish until we launched, when we've still been trying to figure out how to unlock bam BA's tower. It's a
Gizmo: couple keys. It's very confusing. It's a very
Rob Ayala: tall order. So, um, Bond Roberts was, we didn't know it was gonna be successful. We had no idea.
We provided the platform, we funded it, we seated it initially, and, um, then COVID hit. And we didn't know if anyone could actually get to a post office to post a box, but they did. And today, I think we're just finishing our Easter sale at this point, or this week, I think on average we have 150 boxes a day up.
And our struggle for Bond Roberts is actually not finding boxes to sell. It's actually processing all those boxes and making sure that we have the, the regimentation in the process to make sure that those boxes are, uh, uh, authentic. I mean, we, [00:33:00] without going through numbers, I think our dispute list is about four a month, four boxes transactions a month.
A month. That's crazy. And we have a, we have a proper dispute resolution mechanism. We run it like a proper company. We, we have a board of directors. We make sure, especially when there is a dispute, and I think that's always the key issue when there are disputes in terms of box between buyers and sellers.
At four a month, then we sit down as a board and we look at the fairness aspect, and we look at whether the seller has done their, their due diligence as whether the buyer has done their due diligence. Everyone. Executed the way they have agreed in terms of process, and we make a decision on that. Bond Robinson is, is getting stronger, it's getting bigger.
And that's, it's, it's to me, with Alex Groom on board now it is. We look, I mean, Foxy was here the last couple of days and when I hugged him today, when he left for the airport, we both cried. We are friends. We've been together for many, many years. And, and to be able to do a business with someone, to [00:34:00] create a business from nothing, with someone that you love is such a rarity in this world.
And I'm so proud of Bond Roberts. It's great. FOH supply situation in terms of Cuban cigars has improved worldwide. Slowly. Yeah. Slowly improving worldwide. But the, again, with the membership that we have, and it's a huge membership base. The, the, the, the great distaste that I have is the fact that after the price rises in, in the early 2000 twenties that we saw through Haos, that effectively 35, 40% of my client base, not my client base.
'cause that seems so clinical, my friend's base, whether you are in Rally North Carolina, whether you're in France, whether you're in the uk, guys who smoke cigars for the right reasons, the traditional reasons, because you enjoy it, you wanna share it. [00:35:00] Those guys can no longer afford those cigars. To be fair, it pisses me off early.
It pisses me off early. And so I can't affect what Habanas does, but we had the opportunity to go and do something to replace that hole for them. And I'm not gonna make crap. We, Hamlet and I are not gonna make crap to replace those holes. We wanna do better. We don't want, we don't wanna match it. We wanna make it better.
That Mareva, you smoked yesterday. You guys smoked the Mareva yesterday. Oh yeah. Very good. Brilliant. Good. And I asked when we, we smoked them mareva, I said, it needs to be better than a Monty four and a Port LA Petite Corona when you first buy them. And it did. And we're gonna put that into production. And I wanna put that into production at a fraction of the price of what our members are currently having to fork out for, for Mon Fours and Port La Petit [00:36:00] Coronas.
That's me. That's us. That's what we want to do. A because it still burns. And you know, George, yeah. It burns me that, that so many of our clients, so many of our friends are been burnt. And I want to replace that for them. So if you So yeah, Oracle. No passion, absolutely immense passion for this industry.
Immense passion for this hobby, immense passion for the people who are involved. This hobby, immense passion for what I saw last night in your lounge and what I see in lounges in Hong Kong and London and friendship groups on my deck on a Friday afternoon. I want to make sure that people can still share cigars at a fair price point and laugh and talk about everything that's in and outside of their worlds and do so without having to worry about putting down huge dollars.
I just
Senator: have to say the the thing that's [00:37:00] inspiring to me about what you all are doing, we've talked a lot on the podcast, obviously as the prices have increased across the bans catalog, how crazy they've gotten. I've said in the past, I don't think anyone should have to spend more than $40 to have an excellent cigar.
I've broken that rule many times. These guys have taken me to account for it. But generally speaking, accountability is very important around here. It is. Oh, you think it is. Uh, but I say that because, I mean, we were almost laughing last night when we asked how long those cigars had been sitting, and you said roughly 10 days ago they were rolled and when you lit that cigar, you would think that that could have sat for a year or two.
And we were lighting it up and. It goes to the blending and the process. And now for, you know, me to see firsthand how serious you all take this process, it shouldn't have to cost someone an arm and a leg to have that experience. And it's people who are willing to be intentional about it and not [00:38:00] just say, this is good enough and will put it out at an accessible price point.
The bar is, we want it to be outstanding, we want greatness. And that can still be done at such a reasonable price point. And that just gives me hope for, you know, future generations of smokers who are gonna have a harder time than we all did, trying Cuban tobacco and understanding what that experience is like.
And they're gonna have an opportunity to get something that is very similar in profile and DNA to that experience at a reasonable price point. And that's the one thing that I'm just thrilled. I mean, we lament all the time how tough it's gonna be for the future smoker to really dive into that world.
And I'm just glad that through Honduran tobacco, through, you know, blenders like Hamlet, that there's, there's hope for those people too.
Rob Ayala: Yeah. It, and it's so important, and again, we discussed it the last couple of days. I mean, it, it, we all started this journey where you walk into a lounge or walk into a group, get invited into a group by someone, [00:39:00] and everyone's got their little humidors and little selections around the table and, and, and they're having drinks and they're sharing and they share.
Siglo six, or they share, uh, a Monte four, they share a kaba ab robusto. Today, if you're in the Haos world, it's very difficult to start sharing a kaba Robusta 'cause they've just shared $150. Yeah. And you're doing that and No, because I've seen on, on our deck, on FOH, which I love, I love that community that we have on our deck on a Friday afternoon.
You've got painters, you've got teachers, you've got sparkies electricians, you've got millionaires, you've got billionaires, you've got doctors, you've got lawyers, property developers, and they're sharing everything. Now, mind you, a lot of 'em are being shared of Bond Roberts or Nudies, et cetera, there. But, and if you bring someone into that group, you're sharing those cigars as well.
It's not about the cigar. The cigars are the, the cross and the [00:40:00] t and the dot on the i. It's the, it's the, the getting together and the sharing of experiences and the sharing of each other's lives, which is the most important thing. And that's what cigars are about.
Pagoda: No, we really appreciate your ethos and your value system because, you know, as a smoking member of the Cigar com community, I think we need people like you to be able to preserve this community because, you know, it's, it's one of the things that.
Um, it really, you know, firstly it always gets us together, but it, um, you know, it's very inspiring and just overall, I think we've shared a lot of really good moments together and, uh, but as the price continues to increase and it becomes an accessible, I think the frequency reduces. So we really appreciate you coming with a very different perspective to try and preserve this community.
So thank you.
Rob Ayala: No, I appreciate it, but I, I do it as much for myself as for anyone else. 'cause [00:41:00] I am, that's where I started from and so I understand the mechanics, I understand the fundamentals of what the cigar community is. Mm-hmm. And I don't want that to be lost ever for our, for our kids, for our grandkids.
I understand how much I've got outta this industry, how much I've got outta this hobby. The friendship groups that I've got, my accountants, my lawyers are some of the best friends or my lawyer needs to be. Um, but, but I, I wouldn't have met them unless it was through this industry. Robbie Fox Hall Perez.
We, we, we spend time in each other's houses. We go at each other's weddings. We go to each other's. This is what the cigar world is and should always be. And it shouldn't be delineated by price or class
Hamlet Paredes: like. Uh, based on, on, on my experience in the US I've been touring around. The US
Gizmo: for 10 years. So you were doing that when, when you were with Rocky Patel?
Yes. [00:42:00] Doing a lot of events and you were planning for him.
Hamlet Paredes: But it's a, it's a totally different, um, events than what we doing here. We just just got naked and we just, you know, I don't remember that. That's a bam approved activity. I know. So that, I'm sorry, I'm fucking sorry. I said I gotta say a fucking sorry, because it's podcast.
So what I'm trying to say is like, we don't have a chill, and actually you came out so many times today, Senator in our once a year dinner
talking. How come I meet myself? Got.[00:43:00]
Listen to what you were telling me, but you know what? You got me.
Rooster: We are back to
Hamlet Paredes: that. I mean,
Senator: no, actually they didn't know this was be gonna be a, uh, I don't like, I don't like this whole celebration over here.
Bam Bam: Bam. BA's getting jealous. No. You know what I have
Rooster: to say? Hamlet is very sensitive. No, listen,
Hamlet Paredes: listen, motherfuckers listen.
For the first time in my life in so many lunch cigar stores, I got so many favorites. And we were talking about this, like, what a, an amazing group of people that love cigars. And I, I know, I'm not saying that any other place that [00:44:00] I've been has been less or more, but you always have this guy that is, you know, the clown and the motherfucker, the drunk or whatever.
We don't know any of those. Yeah. So none of them. No, but
Rooster: not in our group. But
Hamlet Paredes: the honestly, man, like, what the hell? Like, um, I was like,
I was so impressed. I, I'm worried. I'm going with the flow. I read the crowd. That's my job. I, I work the crowd. I didn't need to do that. I was kind of like, what? You were, you were so, I mean, normal. I like, I I don't need to say this or this or that. You know? Do you get my [00:45:00] point? It's like, kind of like, to me it was like frustrating.
Like I know it's the first time I'm not fucking going to work the fucking crowd. So it's okay. They just say hi. Hi, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. And then, and like just settle in motherfuckers. I feel, and I know you feel the same. 'cause I'm a very easy going guy with people. We feel like we know each other for like 20 years and we only know each other for like fucking two days.
Gizmo: So boys, we are coming to the end of our first third here on our cigars. I have the Bond Roberts 109 in my hands. Some of you have the same. Phenomenal.
Bam Bam: Oh my God.
Gizmo: And what's everybody thinking right now? What are, what are some of your notes on flavor? I'd love to hear from the room.
Hamlet Paredes: Can I, can
Gizmo: I.
Hamlet Paredes: Who is the one that is smoking one oh nines.
Gizmo: I am so Gizmo Senator Rooster, Hamlet have one. Oh, nines. Oh my God. [00:46:00]
Hamlet Paredes: All right. It's awesome. Let me
Senator: tell Hamlet everything that's wrong with the blend. So first, yeah, go ahead. Yes, please. First. It's incredibly complex. It's excellent. I mean, the, the thing that just stands out to me, the, and I think Gizmo teed this up early on, the, the delicate balance between sweet and salty.
You get all the way through the first third, you get this like cream and honey, these sweet notes, that salt and minerality you get even a faint bit of, I dunno if it's earthiness or a little leather, just like very far in the background. To have that level of complexity. And this is where I think, you know, uh, Rob and I connected last night.
You want to be gripped by a cigar, excuse me. I just wanted to make him a little jealous.
Gizmo: Got a toured love affair.
Senator: I'm about to leave the room. You want to be gripped by a cigar early on and you don't want that risk that you lose interest and you don't give the cigar the, [00:47:00] the fair shake that it deserves.
And I think with this cigar right off the bat, you're getting those notes and it builds as you're going into that, uh, you get toward the end of the first third. So for me, I love the flavor profile. It's very much, and I think my wheelhouse and probably everyone at this table, um, but the complexity is what really stands out to me at this price point.
And to be this young and have that and not have to hold this for a few years to achieve that is incredible.
Hamlet Paredes: But you know what, Senator, thank you so much. I love you for that. Um, maybe Ella love you for that, but I wanna listen to what does Rooster have to show? This is the real guy. The rooster. The rooster.
'cause he share something with me that, so
Gizmo: Hammond has a tattoo of the Partha Goss factory, which this is how our Broman started for the listener. Mr. Partis over here sounds, I found another,
Hamlet Paredes: he sold that. He loved that [00:48:00] Patas. So
Rooster: how do you feel? I. So for me, the, I mean, this cigar, it starts out with that saltiness that you really only see it on a Cuban cigar.
But I'm looking around the room and I see every single one of us smoking, smoking a 109 or the Fenómenos, how good the construction is.
Gizmo: Yeah.
Rooster: Right? How good, how well it's made, how good the blend is. But this cigar is, is complex. It's balanced. It has the sweetness and it's like sweet and sour. But I'm also getting like a little floral note out of this.
I don't know if anybody else is, but I get, I
Rob Ayala: do,
Rooster: I get a little forward, I do
Rob Ayala: the, um, one of hamlet's priorities in any blend is aroma. He loves the aspect of aroma. He prides aroma. And he actually taught me that, he taught me many years ago now that aroma is such an important part of blending a cigar. And so [00:49:00] I think every, every cigar that we had, and I, I really under undervalued that, underappreciated that.
But I now, I find myself know, rolling the cigar smoke under my nose to, to, to really take in that aroma. And I think it's an important part. And
Rooster: that's where I'm getting the floral, yes, the aroma. It's at, it's at the burn one. Right. That's intentional. And when
Hamlet Paredes: actually you don't have to go that far to name it a flora.
The only time I I named that is with a Cuban cigar. Flora.
Senator: I'll tell, I'll say this. I also get it here. And there was another prototype we had last night that I got a floral note. So I agree when we say that there are parallels to Cuban tobacco, I think you're being humble. It's truly there. No, I'm not humble, I'm just No, definitely not humble.
Rob Ayala: We can say that. It's definitely not humble people.
Gizmo: So let's talk very quickly with the guys who are smoking the Fenómenos. Mm. So that's Grindr, chef [00:50:00] Ricky bam, bam. And Rob Ayala here. What are you guys getting right now on the Fenómenos? How has the first third been for you?
Grinder: The first third has been great.
So first kudos, uh, to the blender here. This is fan. Fantastic. I think, first of all, I've never had, I don't think I've had a cigar this size, uh, in my life. I don't think there is one is there. So
Rob Ayala: I haven't had many either. Yeah. So this is his second. This
Grinder: actually I, I, I create that size. So I was a little skeptical about the size 'cause it's not something I'm used to holding in my hand or smoking of course.
And flavor profiles are outstanding. The, the burn is cons is, is great. I, I was curious what we were talking earlier about you don't wanna replicate, but there are these benchmarks and obviously you curate certain flavor, flavor profiles based on your experience and what you love. What about this cigar were you trying to create?
Because this is No,
Rob Ayala: that's one. Yeah, that is one. That that we didn't try to replicate or create or compare it against anything else. That is one the [00:51:00] Hamlet blended for Robbie Fox and myself to share personally. And it was, and he gifted to us personally. And it, it's not like any other cigar. It, so when I smoked that cigar and I smoked all 10, there was 10 in the, in, in the box that came through and I smoked 'em over the course of two months and I thought, no, it's too good.
This is something that, it's a blend that is just a magnificent blend and it's not one that we actually went and, and went through the thought process. This one came outta left field. Yeah. But I,
Grinder: I get, I get some of the Cuban flavor profiles. The Danni is there. Yeah. The DNA there. Absolutely. And, um, did I
Hamlet Paredes: mention that I love you, I dunno your name, but I love you.
Lot of love just about the record
Grinder: and what what I like about the cigars. It for me, I'm just serendipitously I, my flavor profile is, is definitely more on the milder side from the rest of the, the, the, the folks here, it's got a, a subtle sweetness, [00:52:00] but there's this little spice, like a little baking spice in there that just rounds out everything.
It's got a nice bakery note.
Hamlet Paredes: Can I, can I, can I please say something for a guy like me, a Cuban blender going through Cuba and then us, and then now trying to. Blend something that I like as a Cuban blender and getting people like you all over the world debating about this text, like me, like uh, A Showman or Monte Cri or Cova or wherever, but got the DNA of a Cuban cigar, me using and telling [00:53:00] you in advance there is zero Cuban tobacco.
Mm-hmm. To me is music to my ears and that's what I live for. What you just said is music. My biggest compliment always will be when just puffs, God, I never feel this before. In the case of you guys and the way that we, that I'm blend guys, I'm blending cigars for all my guys all over the world that only smoke givens.
And now because of him and what I. I don't know how, I don't even know how I did that. Using a zero Cuban tobacco. I bring you [00:54:00] to the Cuban tobacco flora and you put that in you every day. Smoke. So, you know what, man? I drop my freaking mic right now.
Rob Ayala: Grinder. I gotta say that one. That's it. Two things. One is I love the fact that you used serendipitous in a sentence.
I thought it was fantastic. Um, got got an extensive vocabulary.
Pagoda: He linguist of the group. He introduced us to Petco as well, by the way. That's
Rob Ayala: correct. That was so good that you mentioned that it was, um, you thought a big cigar was probably gonna be a little bit fuller than it was gonna be. Well, I,
Grinder: I, I think I.
I think my, I've, I have smoked a lot of, uh, bigger ring gauge cigars and just, you know, this is a long cigar too. Yeah. It's, my expectation was the flavor would be a little muted because typically from, from my experience, it, it's not as strong, it's [00:55:00] not as pointed, it's not as crisp on my tongue and all those flavor profiles, they're not as strong.
It's what, it's really what I
Rob Ayala: enjoyed about it. Yeah. It's really why I wanted to bring it into, to the profile is because it's there, it's, it's, yeah, we wanna do medium bodied cigars, light, medium bodied cigars. 'cause that is, again, growing up in Cuba, smoking Cuban cigars, majority of Cuban scars, light medium bodied and, and they're complex.
So that's where we wanted to be light medium bodied. And I think that's what we've achieved on that phenomenon. I don't, 54 gauge for me is about as, as thick a gauge as I want it to be.
Bam Bam: Mm-hmm. Correct. To me, that's, that's
Rob Ayala: a top end of my personal, and I don't care if you smoke 56, 58, 60, 65, but for me, 54 is about as high as I go in terms of ring damage.
But to me,
Hamlet Paredes: to me, uh, as a blender and to be exposed to, as do you, you motherfuckers, you realize what we've been doing here. I, I [00:56:00] just brought you this regards that are blend and you judging what I did and we're taking it.
Rob Ayala: So who hates the cigar? Um, let's go, let's go. No, what do you think about? I wanna get some, I wanna get some, I wanna get some I some, I wanna say
Bam Bam: some negativities.
There's some negative things I would say about it. Go Ben. But I will, I'm not gonna start there. I I'm gonna move back. Uhhuh. No, no. Go Ben.
Hamlet Paredes: So lemme vo him. Yeah. I'll start. Gimme some room. I'll start
Bam Bam: with the positives. I, I do feel this is a, an elevated version of what a mag 50 wants to be. Good call actually.
Yeah. Good. It wants to be, this is a much greater, a better experience. It's much more, uh, it's elegant, it's soft, it's creamy, it's velvety, has all those things. But spec for specific notes. I'm getting faint nutmeg and a sweet cereal, like a sweet carbohydrate of some kind with the backdrop of minerality and earthiness that gives it its balance.
Um, and [00:57:00] there's faint tastes of Schwa Supreme, which I love. That's, and that's one of my favorite Cuban cigars. I would also say a little bit of punch punch. Um, and even the punch double Corona, just faints of, of that cigar I'm getting in this. It's, it's a special cigar.
Rob Ayala: It's interesting. You, well, two things.
Um, I, I'm, I'm really interested in, in fact, that you, I've never heard anyone use carbohydrate in terms of, um, a, a, a tasting note. And that is cool. Like a sweet cereal. That that's cool. Yeah, that is very cool. That's the bam, bam
Gizmo: difference. Correct.
Rob Ayala: But what I liked about it. So what I liked about what you said there is it's got elements in the Magnum 50.
Mm-hmm. Which to me it does, it also has a little bit of that apricot that, that um, uh, we call it stone fruit, so right dried fruit. That, that stone fruit. That stone fruit in Australia. So I got that
Bam Bam: apricot on the cold draw. What I,
Rob Ayala: if, if there's one cigar in our lineup that I would put away for just a little period of time is this.
Now, when I said we made these [00:58:00] 10 days, they weren't, we made all these cigars for, for this, for this little repair.
Bam Bam: That's, that's also insane. That's
Rob Ayala: 10 days. And, and, and I, and if, when you asked me, Senator, how long have these cigars been? I could've said, I could've told you a week. We've made them a year ago.
I, I'm not gonna bullshit anyone. We made them 10 days ago because we need to speak, we need to smoke cigars fresh. Sure. Because that gives us a, a timeline of how they develop through. Now this is one cigar. The Fenómenos is one cigar. Has that level of complexity Absolutely. Has that level of, and it's not there yet.
And I can tell you right now, I'm smoking the same cigar that you are smoking with almost the same point. Mm-hmm. But I'm, but the balance, I've, I've smoked enough cigars in my life with this sort of a profile that I know, I, I'm pretty sure I know where this is gonna be in five and six and seven years time.
You can smoke it now fresh. But I got a gut feel that this blend in, in, in, in five a year. Like a Choice Supreme.
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Rob Ayala: Et cetera. It, it's got those elements like an HR Magnum 50. It's got those elements that it's going to Yep. It's gonna [00:59:00] build, it's gonna, it's gonna evolve. It's going to, it's gonna flourish during that period of time.
And that's what, that's what I wanted and that's why I got excited about this cigar. I. Because even though they're fresh, I just got excited about that. And I love, that's why I'm a huge believer in tasting fresh cigars. I, I, I think because fresh, if you taste a fresh cigar, it gives you a point of reference and then two years and three years, and then you say, my God, these are 94 point cigars, 95 point cigars.
And then you start smoking through the box and then when you pick up another fresh cigar from another manufacturer, et cetera, and you find those same similar profiles, it gives you some sort of mental point to go back to. Yeah. This is the one I wanna put away for a little bit of time
Bam Bam: to go through. You know, it's, it's very hard to criticize a cigar that was made 10 days ago, the one that smokes so beautifully and deliciously The only criticism I would have, the wrapper, I would say is a bit move back.
There's a, there's a vaness to the, to the wrapper. [01:00:00] Um, I'm not complaining about it, but it um, that's probably sounds like a complaint. Yeah. Does, I mean, it's definitely on the visuals. The visuals of it is probably the only thing I would complain about. So, ba on, you're being picky. So
Rob Ayala: ba on the wrappers, let me just jump in there on the, on the wrappers.
So they're humma strand wrappers. Mm-hmm. Number one. So it's a, it's a region. Honduras and Sranan wrappers and humma strand wrappers have a certain vaness to the wrappers themselves. And there's not something that you can actually get away from. The good thing about Ham Australian wrappers is they deliver such a beautiful flavor to the cigar.
So you need to, and not, you know, you need to. Get past that to a point. Mm-hmm. So there's a, there is a balancing act there. You're getting a lot more flavor, a lot more of that sweetness was from a hamstone wrapper. Now that may not be perfect. Now I can go and do a beautiful shade grown wrapper as opposed to a sungrown wrapper that you have now.
So I can do a beautiful shade grown wrapper, and it'll be thinner, it'll be more prettier. Mm-hmm. You know what, it's not gonna have the same [01:01:00] flavor input into the cigar. And that's what matters. And that, for me, of course, for me, that's what matters for all of us.
Bam Bam: Yeah, for sure. For me, that's
Rob Ayala: what matters.
So that, so if you ever think about it again. So just the fact that Ham Australian wrappers just tend to have more veins in them.
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Rob Ayala: But the flavor benefit from it
Bam Bam: to me makes more sense. Before you move on though, the combustion on this cigar is off the charts and
Gizmo: the smoke output.
Bam Bam: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's perfect.
Hamlet Paredes: It's ridiculous. So as a consumers, how much did you take care about how the wrapper looks like versus how it tastes?
Senator: It's a good question. I mean, I, I, I'll, I'll go first. I, I think whenever we're rating a cigar, I. I think everyone around this table always prioritizes the flavor more than anything.
Definitely a hundred percent. So,
Rooster: but sometimes you pick up a cigar because
Hamlet Paredes: the voila love you because the cigar, the way
Rooster: it looks, [01:02:00] right? If the wrapper looks good, you might pick that as opposed to a baby. Sure. Cigar. Yeah.
Gizmo: But I think about it like this. I think when you're at a restaurant and your entree's put in front of you at dinner, a lot of times you're judging the food before you even put it in your mouth.
So I do think there's an element of the way we consume right Parallel to food, which we all eat. That is, I. You know, very much eaten with our eyes or smoked with our eyes. And of course, what we do here on this podcast under the microscope is then we taste it and we forget about how it looks because that is the primary true mm-hmm.
Thing of importance.
Senator: You know, I think there's an expectation with a premium cigar for it to not only taste good, but for it to also look beautifully constructed. And, you know, when you're smoking a cigar, you're constantly looking at it, you're admiring it, and you want it to look as beautiful as it tastes.
And so I think that's where like, you know, BAMS, you know, commentary I think is, is very valid in that it's something that you notice. But hearing the story behind it, I mean, there's countless cigars. You have the
Bam Bam: technical [01:03:00] detail behind. It's the thing
Senator: that's what matters. It's an intentional choice as opposed to a manufacturer where it's
Rob Ayala: an unintentional choice, completely bam.
Absolutely your dead set spot on. Mm-hmm. But keep in mind that when those go into regular production, 'cause these was made for pre-production, they're go into regular production, we actually take the best of the wrappers into, into making them. So the ones with the less veins, et cetera. But they'll still be sungrown and they'll still be sungrown hum.
Run. So they'll look good. But I, I just, we won't sacrifice or in, in our, we made this decision between Hamlet and myself. We're not gonna, never gonna sacrifice flavor for looks. We're never gonna dress a cigar. We're never gonna oil a cigar. We're never going to make everything look super pretty for the fact that it looks good or not looks brilliant out of the box.
It's always gonna look great. But what we will not do is artificially dress a wrapper or dress a box. And that's just part of our, our culture.
Hamlet Paredes: No part of our, we, we are all [01:04:00] about the cigar. We are all about what the experience you guys is from us to you. We don't care about how do you look at it on the way to you?
It's like you making a pizza with the rainbows or so many stickers, but it doesn't taste good. It's a bad pizza. So, and that's, that's one thing that I actually love from you guys. And that's my flag. I, I always, I always got you in my heart because when, I guess, uh, sorry, Jeff, Ricky, gimme, gimme one second.
What I love about you guys, I, when I say you guys is every single guy that. Buys from us. It's like we are no bullshiting and you know that [01:05:00] we give you a freaking cigar naked. It's called the noodle noodles naked. No bullshit. You like the cigar or not? You don't like the, you don't, you're not looking at the freaking Wow, that's a box or No, no, you're looking at the cigar.
You smoking a cigar. You, you give us the feedback of what we doing. And we, and the best is like we get the feedback from you right away. And if we have to change something, we do it and we do that. And I promise you last night, Senator, I'm gonna switch a blend and I will, and you will not be the first one that gonna get the first blend.
And then I'm gonna get the feedback from you. And if I, if we get agree, it doesn't matter [01:06:00] what you say, it doesn't means that I'm gonna be agree with you. But if, if you write, go for it. And that's what we have. Hold on. That feedback from you guys
Bam Bam: on if he's flying to Honduras, I'm coming.
Hamlet Paredes: No, he's not. No, he's not.
Well, we'll see if we can fit you in the private jet. He ain't going alone. He ain't going alone. No. What I'm trying to say is like how, how, how many times you, you get the, the, the chance to honestly, like
Gizmo: the instant feedback, honestly, the instant feedback loop that we've experienced this weekend that we're experiencing now as we record this for our listeners, for the lizards out there, this is a highly unique experience.
Sure. There, there, there's always some sort of middleman or two or 10 or it's impossible. It's almost like the Wizard of Oz. Nobody gets to see the wizard. Right? This is the opposite of that. We're sitting with the people making these cigars. Rob is taking notes, they're discussing it, they're agreeing, they're disagreeing.
Rob is trying a cigar again to see if he could chase what the comment was that that [01:07:00] person in the lounge or senator or any of us were, were giving him. So I mean, that feedback loop that's happening is pretty powerful and the, the, the speed at which iterations can be done because of that is pretty cool.
It's,
Rob Ayala: it's super, sorry Senator. It's super powerful and went and Ham was talking about a rib robusto, a new prototype Rob Robusto we're talking about last night. And the rib robusto was, it was an excellent cigar and we both agreed that, you know. As a pre-production cigar, it's, it's 85%, 90% of the way there, but it just needs more mid palate, mid palate richness to it.
It has all the bakery, it has all the spices, all of that. And I agree with you and it, 'cause it was something in the back of my mind as well. And so we're way bam in terms of those wrappers. Mm-hmm. In terms of Fenómenos, we've tried that with Haal wrapper. Ecuadorian wrapper. We've tried it with other wrappers from around the world, but nothing delivers that flavor [01:08:00] profile except for that TRO wrapper.
TRO wrapper. Which, which, when you take that into account, we have to make that, do we make it pretty or you make it. Great. No, you make it great. Great. So when we go into the, into the process of picking wrappers for that cigar, we'll make sure that they'll be spot on. But it's just that flavor. To me. It's about flavor more than anything else.
Chef Ricky,
Chef Ricky: holy shit. I've been exploding over here. Dying to get my comments on Chef. It's a tough room tonight. So next guy.
No, Hamlet. First and foremost. I just, I as a chef in the room, I could totally understand what you're feeling, what you're going through, or sitting here in front of people smoking something. You created one of your children, essentially. Uh, that is a very difficult thing to do. Brave and brave. Yes. Yes. Very brave.
Uh, and I love how you're taking it, how you're receiving it. Obviously. It's a amazing cigar. It's a delicious experience. [01:09:00] Uh, for me it's been like cafe che salted caramel. You're smoking
Bam Bam: the phenomenon.
Chef Ricky: Yes.
Bam Bam: Okay.
Chef Ricky: Uh, salted caramel. Some cereal notes there. As Ben put it, I've never been more grateful to be in a unventilated room because the aroma on these cigars are phenomenal.
Correct. I was concerned about it. I was concerned about it because, you know, even where we typically record, there's some ventilation in this conference room today. There isn't any, and I've never been more grateful for that experience. So kudos to you, man. Thank you. This is an amazing cigar. Uh, it tastes amazing.
Uh, what you guys are doing is an incredible thing. Incredible thing. I'm super grateful. Um,
Hamlet Paredes: well, I mean, don't stop it. Just keep going. I mean, you, you do the want guy in this freaking table that does what I do. Yeah. So it's, you know, in a different, you know, way, but way, and even still,
Chef Ricky: I don't always have this experience why I have to sit at a table with people who are [01:10:00] experiencing.
Have you ever, have
Hamlet Paredes: you ever been in a table with, with people all the time criticizing your, all the time. This,
Chef Ricky: this guy here, he orders. So there was once, uh, day in particular where myself and my partners from the restaurant were all at the lounge having a meeting and senate in true Senator Fashion. He decides to order from one of the restaurants take without telling him I was doing it without telling anybody, secret shopper.
So I'm like, this, this motherfucker did that on purpose. He's like, oh, we're, we're gonna see what this is all about now that they're all here. You know, and you know, they,
Hamlet Paredes: they don't know how we handle that.
Chef Ricky: But you know what? That day, just like you, I couldn't be prouder of my team because he loved his, it was excellent.
Everything was nailed. The packaging was great, but that's the only way. There were no short mistake.
Hamlet Paredes: We as a, as a creators, yes. That's the only way we can get better. Absolutely.
Bam Bam: Yeah. No, a hundred percent agree. A hundred percent agree. I have a question for chef, though. Are you getting any nutmeg in this? I do
Chef Ricky: get some slight nutmeg.
It's, it's very [01:11:00] unique. I get slight nutmeg. Uh, I just love how it goes back and forth. There's, there's like a peanut brittle saltiness, super savory, so highly creamy. The
Bam Bam: saltiness for me is in that minerality that's in the background. Yep, yep. Very
Chef Ricky: faint.
Bam Bam: Yep.
Chef Ricky: And that makes it really complex. It's balanced.
Yeah. Yeah. That really does a phenomenal job. I think it's the
Rooster: Honduran tobacco that has that Cuban salty twang. It has to, right? Yep.
Chef Ricky: And, and kudos to you guys for putting flavor before vanity. You know, the fact that it's not something that, you know, I mean, I don't think it's particularly veiny or, but I, I understand BA's point.
I could totally see that. And I, you know, of course, even with food, people eat with their eyes first. Right? They're laying their eyes on what's in front of them. Um, but yeah, I mean, this is such a rewarding experience and it's only 10 days roll, so. Great.
Hamlet Paredes: You know, I'm curious, so we do pretty much the same.
Sure. Yeah. We just,
Chef Ricky: yeah. In fact, what you do is one of my dreams to do someday. Not at your level, but [01:12:00] to just to experience Good luck, chef.
Hamlet Paredes: Yeah, I do. I do. I do. And I cook, but COVID COVID chef. I wish, I wish I, I can be, I can be like you, but Chef Helito. Yeah.
Chef Ricky: We'll, we'll, we'll have to, we'll have to switch off.
No, actually, actually
Hamlet Paredes: we, we doing the same. We just taking stuff from scratch, putting together different Different ingredients. Yeah. Different ingredients
Chef Ricky: and
Hamlet Paredes: making a, a dish and then we just supposed to mm-hmm. Everybody else to Yeah. Say yes or not.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. And there's not many people in this world that could do what we do because of the level of criticism one takes or praise.
Right. But even praise is somewhat uncomfortable to take at times. I don't do well with compliments or, uh, criticism. So, you know, I, I, so, you know, you know, compliments are
Senator: not a
Hamlet Paredes: problem for Hamlet.
Chef Ricky: No, no,
Hamlet Paredes: no, it's not. No. But my biggest compliment ever would be always, [01:13:00] and I, I think we share the same, is I never tried this before.
Rooster: Like it's a new experience. Yeah.
Hamlet Paredes: Ah, and that's what I do.
Senator: Yeah. That for us was the, that's the helmet that for us was the, the Trini Buzo. Correct. That's Hamlet.
Hamlet Paredes: That's my signature if you tell me. Yeah. Um, I. That reminds me too. I like f you could say it, fuck this shit when you tell me, you know, what is music to my ears.
And I got that a lot. Even if you, there's so many ways to listen to the music. Sometimes it is verbally, most of the time for me with [01:14:00] you guys is watching you
Chef Ricky: body language. Yep.
Hamlet Paredes: And I, I got that. And a master son, I'm a bitch of that. I got that picture of you and what I create. Boom. And I get the picture and you're gonna lie to me.
And for me it's, it's an honor. And I thank you guys. I've been watching you guys for the last days that I've been here. That's what I do.
Rooster: That's what I do. We've been watching you.
Senator: The, the one thing I'll say to broaden this conversation beyond the experience that is definitely unique we're having in being able to give this kind of direct feedback to the blender.
The thing that is encouraging. And I think consumers, you know, we set the expectations for the industry, what we want to see from these brands, if we're going to be loyal to them, if we're gonna [01:15:00] purchase. I am encouraged, obviously that's, this is not the way things have been done in the past quite like this, but I am encouraged that.
I think folks are starting to do more of this. And I think that's where things are heading, which is really helpful. I say that, I mean, you know, we reviewed that stoic cigar, um, a number of weeks ago. They've got QR codes on every single band where you can directly rate the experience you had with that specific cigar.
And I thought that was a huge leap forward in terms of collecting real time feedback from consumers. And I think, you know, Rob has the forum where I'm sure God knows how many folks are regularly detailing their experience with these cigars. And that's an immediate feedback loop for you as to how they're performing, how folks are enjoying them and what they're experiencing.
And I just, I hope to see many more brands take an approach like that, because that's critical to pushing the limits and pushing the industry even further.
Rob Ayala: It's great having a forum because they're brutally honest [01:16:00] and, and our forum is not. It's not an order page. Our forum is our front of house. Our forum is the front door we walk into every day.
Like chef, you walk into the restaurant every day. We walk into the forum every day. And so it's a very different experience in the retail market, in the consumer market, in the world of cigars. So, and you will make missteps. You will have bad days, you will have issues that come up and, and you handle 'em and you hand, but you're handling them in a public light.
And,
Senator: and you get the opportunity to, because you have that feedback
Rob Ayala: loop, you have that feedback loop and you have that culture within the forum. You have the culture within our staff. You have the culture there. We fix it, we make sure we over fix it. We, we over deliver. And then you move forward from it.
And you learn from those things and you change what you need to change. Not too different to cigars. You do the same. You, you, you, you, you really need to engage with that public.
Hamlet Paredes: We have with the [01:17:00] consumer, the direct to us. It's not middle people, but, but due to us.
Rob Ayala: But that direction is only as good as your, as your, as your reaction.
Yes. So a QR code, a QR is code is only as good as who's listening on the other side. It's true. He's taking the data and is doing that. It's true. So I would much rather don't, George gives me a PM on, on, uh, on the forum and says, you know, I smoked this and I wasn't really happy because this thing tell me about it.
Or we catch on a zoom call 1 0 1 and we talk about it. I said, so it doesn't really matter what the mechanism is that you capture the experience from the consumer and it really doesn't matter. Can I say something? No, you can't.
Hamlet Paredes: No, you can't do, you didn't like the freaking whatever. You talk to him, they send the cigars to me.
So I'm the one that I'm like,
I screw it up, or what the fuck is going on with George? [01:18:00] So I call, we asked that question, call, I call him back. Thanks Heather. But that connection, man, consumer, producer, it doesn't fucking sit.
Gizmo: Mm-hmm.
Hamlet Paredes: It's only here that when you as a consumer, I'm sorry man, go on. But what I'm trying to say is like,
Rob Ayala: what do you mean?
Go on. I've got no idea what I was saying. No, no surprise.
Hamlet Paredes: But guys, if you buy a fucking bag. In a certain brands, what is this chance that you can talk to the motherfucker designer? It's impossible of the, it doesn't exist. It's impossible. You're never gonna do it. Yeah. Yeah. So now you, I I know because I've been there too.
I'm a consumer too.
Rob Ayala: Look, you have different models of relationships and I, and, and look, some of the biggest guys in this industry, I've got tremendous respect for, but they wouldn't know who is actually smoking this glass. No way. They have no [01:19:00] idea. They have no idea. To me personally. And I can say personally, I never wanna lose that connection.
Mm-hmm. With, because that, that connection is what has, has, has, has given us, has given us so much richness in my personal life. Not talking about bank accounts, in terms of your personal life, in terms of your relationships and everything else you need to do it. I, I'll, I'll go to the opening of an envelope, um, if I can sit down with new people.
'cause the difference between the person you had a day and 10 years time, I remember it was a Tom Tremendous Jones is the books you read and the people you meet. And right now it's the people you meet. And that's where I focus on what we're trying to do and, and engage people. Bring 'em into our community, make sure they're smoking our cigars.
And if you don't like it, then you tell me. And you know what, I'm, I don't go into those conversations with a mindset that you are wrong. I go into those conversations is to, I, I wanna learn a little bit about you. I wanna learn a little bit about how you smoked that cigar, how you stored that cigar. Did what, what [01:20:00] malfunctioned that cigar, et cetera.
There we have very few of those sort of conversations, thankfully. But it's, it's, for me, we have literally tens of thousands of, of market people out there who are testing it every day. And, and they're the ones who will. Define as to where we'll be in the next 12, 18 months.
Bam Bam: You said something very poignant last night.
You're in the business of making cigars, but your true business is in meeting people. I respect that. I think we all do, and we've said on our podcast many times, when do we get a chance to meet the owner of a company, the blender of the cigar that we're smoking? It's just never, it's impossible.
Grinder: So this is a true rare treat for us.
Yeah. Yeah. So you, you, you talked about the continuous feedback loop, and you also alluded to expanding, right? It has to be quite a laborious effort to continuously monitor that feedback loop just with manpower, [01:21:00] attention, mind share, all that stuff that that goes into, you know, receiving the feedback and then acting upon the feedback.
As you do scale and get bigger, how are you gonna keep that alive as part of your core
Rob Ayala: ethos grinder? We're so lucky we've got the forum. We're so lucky. We already have an established 20 plus years of a social media group, in effect, that come directly to us, or to me, or to, to my team. And I work directly with Hamlet in terms of that.
So we, we have, we are so different to most manufacturers out there, and I've got tremendous respect for Pedroza this world and those of this world who just have a, just a very, very clear and succinct methodology to the way they do business. We, we can't replicate that. We are never gonna replicate that.
But what we have is something that they don't have. What we have is 28,000 consumers in a public forum forum who have direct access and the good, the bad, [01:22:00] and the ugly gets disclosed on there. There's no filtering. It gets disclosed on there and, and they have direct, direct connection to ourselves. So we're gonna use that platform to maintain that feedback loop moving forward.
Gizmo: Alright boys. So I have to talk about our pairing. We are drinking a listener scent bottle of four Square Dominion series, 12 years age private cask selection, single blended rum coming out of ex bourBond casks and ex sherry casks. And this bottle is very special, not only because it was sent by lizard Bryan from Ontario, Canada as a gift.
He sent it in February of 2024. And I earmarked this bottle because Rob and I had a conversation three years ago that he had always wanted to try.
Hamlet Paredes: The
Gizmo: four square private cast selection bottle. And because of Lizard Bryant, we are sitting here tonight drinking this bottle with Rob [01:23:00] Ayala who's in town and it is drinking brilliantly, dude.
And it is really special. I
Bam Bam: would love to rate this 'cause it's outstanding. It's awesome. It truly is delicious. Be it's pairing brilliantly. Oh my God. With the, with the Fenómenos. Incredible.
Chef Ricky: It compliments it in such a
Gizmo: phenomenal I agree. I
Chef Ricky: agree
Gizmo: with the salt on the 109, that sweet, salty thing. Yeah.
This is a perfect run for this. Even at 48%, 96 proof. It doesn't drink hot. Absolute like it's drinking really, really well. Yeah. So I just wanted to shout out Liz o Brian. He's gonna be our lizard of the week this week. Outstanding. Have to send him some stuff for sending us this bottle almost over, you know, well over a year ago.
And I wanted to save it for a special night and tonight is that night. So, Rob, I have to hear, what are you thinking of this? Uh, Foursquare. I know we've been drinking a little foursquare over the weekend, but I think this one is a little bit elevated from the 2009 we were drinking last night.
Rob Ayala: This is quite special.
And Liz, Brian, thank you so much. Reach out to me. I'll send you some things in the mail. Wow. Wow. Wow. That is, that's gorgeous. I, I I [01:24:00] love the, the honey. The nose is amazing. The nose is amazing. Correct. I I'm a huge rum lover. I'm a huge rum lover. But this is, does this live up to the
Gizmo: expectation of what you had heard about Foursquare or what you'd had before?
Rob Ayala: That is one of the finest rums I've had. That's right up there. There's no heat in that. Zero heat. I got a
Bam Bam: question for Senator. So we had a Foursquare that we reviewed how long ago?
Gizmo: Uh, quite some time ago. Probably within the first 15 or 20 episodes of the podcast.
Bam Bam: Dude,
Gizmo: this is
Bam Bam: hands down, I think much, much better than that Foursquare that we originally had.
I agree.
Senator: I mean, when we first reviewed Foursquare, I appreciated a lot of the flavor notes that I got in that run. But it was hot. Yes, it's a high proof, probably close to 50%. Mm-hmm. Spirit. And for me, you know, we rate these spirits on how they pair with a cigar and that rum for a lot of cigars would be [01:25:00] overpowering.
What 12 years of age does to this rum is spectacular because it completely mellows out some of those rough, more aggressive edges that I got in the one that we reviewed. Which was that the 2009? It
Gizmo: was the 2009, yes. Yeah. It wasn't the private cask selection. Correct. Uh, but single blended, this is single, blended, 12 years age private cask.
And for me, this is what
Senator: a sipping rum should deliver a ton of flavor, but in an approachable way that you can enjoy it. Neat. You can pair it with a cigar and in no way it's gonna overpower that
Bam Bam: experience. Chef, you gotta be getting caramel. A little vanilla, but also in the background a little honey.
Yeah. Very, very. Yeah. There's a lot of
Chef Ricky: honey on the back here. Delicious on the nose. But I love the way this rum really brings out the salted caramel Yeah. And the cigars. Correct. Just the way that, it just highlights what I love about this. It's incredible bar. And I didn't know it was listener sent. I was gonna say, 'cause you nailed it again.
Like
Gizmo: Oh, you're [01:26:00] welcome.
Chef Ricky: How do you do this?
Gizmo: I stored it, uh, on my bar for over a year. You're welcome. Do have,
Bam Bam: do we have any idea how much our bottle costs?
Gizmo: I think it's pretty expensive. I think it's touching $200. Are you serious? Yeah. It's a very expensive bottle of rum, but obviously off the charts we're tasting just how excellent it really is off the charts.
Yeah. It, I, I think it's one of the best rums I've ever had, echoing what you guys have said. It's, it's awesome. So, Hamlet's been drinking wine tonight and he just a, after our commentary here, asked to, to have some rum port for him. Hamlet, what, what's your readout on this, uh, on the flavor of this rum? He's not a rum person, by the way.
Ho, I think he might be tonight. This is a good one. Call, call the ambulance. I was, but
Hamlet Paredes: it's full. So normally the Cuban rum is. Mild sweet. So I get the sweetness. I've been not drinking for like three months, so I'm not the right guy to do it.[01:27:00]
I think after a couple sips, your palate adjusts. Oh, the second sip is actually better. There you go. So the first one also gives you, but yeah, strong still.
Chef Ricky: I was gonna say maybe, uh, with Hamlet, we do the, we, we do the super tasting protocol. Oh man. Where you just kind of warm yourself up to it before you take that initial sip.
How much alcohol?
Gizmo: 48%. 96 proof. Oh yeah,
Chef Ricky: here we go. Yeah.
Gizmo: Pagoda 48. 48. Yeah.
Pagoda: I just like the fact that, you know, it's like the rum had me at Sherry, you know? Yeah. The fact that I was in the sherry cask, I think it helps round it off. And I, you know, I think this is the second round we've had. I, uh, which was done BourBond and Sherry.
Cass, I'm not sure. Uh, but it just, you know, it's, it now suddenly fits into my, uh, so I really enjoy it.
Bam Bam: I have a question specific one for him. Is it reminiscent at all of that Caribbean cast that NY makes? Because I see some,
Pagoda: right. I was thinking either it's, uh, some
Bam Bam: parallels a little bit. A little bit.
Just a little bit bit. Yeah.
Pagoda: No, for sure. It is. Um, yeah, I was thinking whether it's [01:28:00] slightly cognac tasting or slightly whiskey tasting. It, it has some, well, a cognac, it has some added, uh, yeah. You know, flavor in, in addition to, you know, what you would expect out Ram typically,
Gizmo: what's the price point? I think it's right around $200.
It's a pretty expensive bar. What is this from?
Hamlet Paredes: It's
Gizmo: from
Hamlet Paredes: Barbados. So to me as a Cuban, it doesn't, I mean, it's nice after the second one you always get the hit. It's sweet, but I don't agree with you. It is kind of like up for a, for rum.
Pagoda: Yeah. It's elevated for rum for sure.
Hamlet Paredes: Yeah. I I, I, the smell is like sweet.
Every sip gets better. It's a higher alcohol level than you're used to. Yes. Yeah. It's different than a Havana Club,
Bam Bam: but it kind of wants to like, like that Magnum 50, this wants to, that want [01:29:00] that Magnum cigar wants to be this cigar. I feel like the Havana Club wants to be this particular room that we're drinking.
It's much more full bodied than elevated.
Senator: I think they have different purposes. So, you know, I, I think when you look at, this is true of any spirit, but we'll focus on rum right at a seven year expression like Havana Club seven or Florida Kanye seven that will drink. I. You know, that's a lighter bodied drum.
It's incredibly easy drinking. It's meant to be consumed in volume more than anything. Yeah. Don't give havanna any ideas. Increasing the
Rob Ayala: price of 200. Correct.
Pagoda: No Gfl. Because here every day, that's also correct. So Rob, you have to just make sure that you, you know, continue to value your ethos. Yes. And keep the pricing at a very reasonable, please.
I'm a
Rob Ayala: value man. I'm a value man. I promise.
Senator: But I, I think when you, when you look at a 12 year expression, really from most brands, I, you know, Florida Kanye 12, I remember we did. This is 12 year, [01:30:00] it's a much richer, fuller expression. You know, you can have a glass or two and be very satisfied and not feel like you, you know, need much more.
But what I do like about this, unlike some other 12 years that we've had and tried on the pod, it's very balanced in its flavor profile. You know, rum is naturally sweet. This is not overly sweet. That's what I don't like in some 12 year rums that exist out there, or even 11 year rums. Um, that's it. You know, we've had this debate about particular ones before.
It, it's the fact that you're comparing it to BNY Caribbean cask, which is, you know, has some sweet notes, but also some dry notes given that it's a scotch by nature. Mm-hmm. It, it's really cool that they were able to achieve that level of balance and kind tame the sweetness. Agreed. That's inherited.
Agreed.
Gizmo: So boys, we're coming to the end of the second, third, coming to the last third here on both the Bond Roberts 109 and the Fenómenos. I feel like the room is in concert right now. We're in [01:31:00] euphoria. Everybody's loving.
Bam Bam: Its euphoric, right? Yeah.
Gizmo: I'm, I'm reading everyone's body language. Obviously there's a lot of us here tonight.
You see the eyes, you see the, the kind of holy shit eyes, the, those moments that happen. I'm really loving my 109. This reminds me exactly of what I had two years ago when I,
Rooster: I'm just amazed how fresh the cigar in it's true is and how it's performing. And I'm curious how, what the cigar is going to taste like in about a year's worth of time.
Yeah. Two years, three years, five years. I think Honduran tobacco is gonna age very much like Cuban tobacco,
Pagoda: Oracle. What do you have to say about it since you can see the vision? I like that. I like that.
Rob Ayala: We had no idea when we started this journey, how. Our cigars would age, and we've been doing this now for four years, just over four years.
So we've got initial batches of the, the Trinity robos, initial batches of the Canzo, initial batches of that. And [01:32:00] I think I mentioned to you, George, on a, on a Zoom call, you need to go back and try those can nasos again. You need to go back and try what you bought initially two years, two and a half years ago.
Again. And we, we've just noticed that it's on a trajectory. Everything's on a trajectory. They, they're getting better, which is a huge relief to me because we didn't know. And, and look, we, the one thing we will not do is, is bullshit to people. So when people ask us how are these gonna age? We always said at the time, I have no idea.
I honestly, I have no idea we're gonna find out on this journey along with yourself. But right now we're super happy. I know that pheno, I just know that phenomenon is gonna age really, really well. I hope so. The Bond Roberts 109, I think is, is ready to go right now. Right now. Yep. So those Fenómenos that we're rolling next week at the factory, they'll be rested for eight months, nine months before they get released.
And, and they'll be a different animal with, with better wrappers. And, [01:33:00] and they'll be, they'll be, they'll be rested there and they'll be, they'll be, I can't wait for that, but, and, and I don't even smoke big cigars such as this, but I love the flavor profile and it's the flavor profile that's gonna get me back.
I could smoke another one
Bam Bam: right now.
Rob Ayala: Yeah.
Bam Bam: Back to back,
Rob Ayala: back to back. And so I. Hondu and tobacco. Done well, done well, blended perfectly by Hamlet or by anyone else who actually knows what they're doing. Ham, hondu and tobacco has that ability to age, I believe. Now whether that peak is, is, is four years, five years, seven years, 10 years.
We're gonna find out together, but that isn't that part of the process. We're gonna actually find out together. And I, I, I'm so excited about that. Absolutely excited about that.
Gizmo: So, I have a question on exactly that for Hamlet. So, you had a brilliant history, legendary history in Cuba, and you know what I, I wanna share some of that right now actually, just to give the lizards out there.
Some of Hamlet's [01:34:00] incredible history. Hamlet, correct me if I get anything wrong here. Hamlet was born and raised in Havana, Cuba. He started rolling at the part Degos factory when he was 17 years old. He was second in command at the part OFS factory. By age 19, he rolled the famous Pargo Luan, his favorite cigar for many years among others.
He traveled the world as a roller for Haos sae. When he left Cuba, he went on to work for Rocky Pat Patel for 10 years and became their master blender. After leaving Rocky a few years ago, he set out to experiment with tobacco from different countries and regions and found greatness in Honduras, and ultimately partnered with Rob and Rob Fox and blended fabric of five cigars and Bond Roberts cigars and his custom roll Cuban cigars.
By the way, boys are legendary to the point. By the way, guys, I wanna let you know I've gotten several text messages from friends that we all know, from people that you guys don't know, that I've met online, from listeners who've seen that we are here, that that you know, that Rob and Handler are here [01:35:00] from a photo on FOH and I'm getting images, several of them.
One of which I showed him with tonight of Hisson that he rolled in Cuba, his custom roll from 10 years ago, 12 years ago, 14 years ago. So what I love about this story is coming from Cuba then when you came to the US working with Rocky Patel in Nicaragua. What I want to know, and I haven't heard this specific story yet, what was the holy shit moment for you with Honduran tobacco?
When did you, like, when did the white bulb go off that Honduran tobacco was your next territory to be conquered? And obviously you've done a very great job at that, but what was that like experiencing Honduran tobacco and having that moment?
Hamlet Paredes: First of all, I didn't know anything about non Cuban tobacco before I came here.
And I, and you know what, what [01:36:00] the beauty of, uh, my journey is, to be honest, and a Cuban Sea God maker for 25 years and going to the us I don't know anything about Honduras, Nicaragua, Dominican equator, anything. Your question is when it was that time, it was when I got, I was playing with all these tobacco, but I wasn't me doing what I wanna do.
So that breaking point was when I was able to do what I wanted to do. When I wanted to go back to what I love to smoke, and I already said this and I want you guys to feel that I'm cocky or whatever, but I blame [01:37:00] Robin shaking his head, not you.
Gizmo: Violently, violently.
Hamlet Paredes: I blend. I blend, I blend the cigars when I was able to do it for myself, for me, and, and I was so happy that the partner that I have.
Chose the same flavor profile that, that I, that I do. So I, we, we have a saying for us, if we like it, people like it. If we don't like it, we don't put it out. That's what we do.
Pagoda: By the way, that's a compliment to Oracle. So, so from Hamlet, if,
Rob Ayala: if, if I can just jump in here quickly, um, we, we working with Ragman Tobacco for a period of time and, and I, I'd love some Ragman cigars and that's great, but it wasn't quite, we couldn't get the profile right with Dick Ragman tobacco.[01:38:00]
And we had the opportunity to work with Oscar and, and Hamlet went down and, and played around with Oscar and I got this phone call and the phone call was, I've come across this tobacco, it was a, a specific type of Honduran tobacco, which we won't mention today 'cause it's nicely used. And Hamlet in his own personal style said, motherfucker, I found this Honduran tobacco, which is sweet as fuck.
And that is exactly his words to me on that call. And he said, I've been playing around with this tobacco and I have rolled these things. I want you to taste them. And I hopped on the next plane.
Hamlet Paredes: He actually, that's, that's a true story. Are you serious? He flew from Australia to Miami. Yeah. True story. Next day.
Wow. Next day now I'm like, because, you [01:39:00] know, holy, all this shit. Like, I love this. I know my palate, I know it's good, but I don't know because, you know, guys, from my point of view, I'm making something that it doesn't, it's out there, it doesn't exist. I'm creating a new blend.
Rob Ayala: So he listened
Hamlet Paredes: to me. The way I talk to him, he flew from Australia to Miami and I'm checking myself.
My ass like, what the hell? So when I give the, the first God to him, he was like, yes. Me was like, whew, must have been relief. I want
Bam Bam: this life.
Rob Ayala: It was a big relief for me 'cause I played, I paid for the plane fair and uh, it was a huge relief. And, and you flew for 18 hours, 20 hours,
Hamlet Paredes: a huge risk for me. Do you guys know what I'm talking about?
It's like, do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. You flew a plate and you don't know, and you [01:40:00] got, you got this guy. Yeah. Which is the son, bitch, the Michelin star reviewer, Michelin star fucking reviewer. The Michelin asshole, the Michelin motherfucker, the Oracle. You can add anything you want, you know what I mean?
Rob Ayala: So most times, most times when having calls me, I'll put it on mute. Uh, but, but when he, when he, when he actually cuts to the chase and says, I've got something that's really, really special and you need to taste it, I will hop on a plane and come across because, you know, I trust him so much. I know what he's capable of and what he's done and what he's going to do.
But when he's excited, when, you know, it's, I know he, he gets excited easily, but when he gets really, really excited, I'm excited. I'm excited. And that's how we started in the Honduran journey. So going back Rooster [01:41:00] to the question or, or George to the question I. When did we know that we had something with Honduran and tobacco?
'cause Hamlet said, it is so sweet. It is so good. It is. Reminds me so much of my roots in Cuba. This is what we, this is, I I've never seen so much gorgeous tobacco. That is when we knew that we were good to go.
Pagoda: You know, I must say you really did expose us to Hondu. Gaz. I think you, you were definitely one of the first brands, you know, where we really started enjoying Hindu.
Gizmo: And it was because, you know, I mean, listen, at the end of the day, Rob is, has made his name for 25, 30 years now being one of the premier retailers and, and communities even more importantly, as we discussed tonight of Cuban cigar smokers. So for him to take that trust and that history and that community he's built and say, guys, I've got something for you.[01:42:00]
There's believability there. Right? Because he's not gonna betray mm-hmm. His bread and butter, you know, community of course. But to
Rooster: Pagodas point, there's been other cigar manufacturers that have used Honduran tobacco that have never tasted like this. No, exactly. I I
Grinder: mean, I, I, I know. Rocky Patel, for example, has used Thomas drawn wrapper extensively in some of his lines.
How, how much of that influence, and with your time there, you know, transferred over to, uh, Bond Roberts and, you know, your, your creation of this blend or, or your inspiration for any, any cigars you made since? Yes, I learned a lot. Of course. Yep.
Hamlet Paredes: And the influence of, uh, exposure. I, I gonna give this to him all my life.
And I sense Rocky Pat [01:43:00] to make me know around the US I was not Ham well known. Mm-hmm. It was because of him.
But in the case of a Honduran tobacco, I mainly use Nicaragua and Honduran, but mainly Nicaragua tobacco when I was, uh, with him, because that was, uh, the guys that we were making. But when, when I go, you know, like able to do, but you can, you can, I'm not freaking bullshitting. It's, uh, you can go to every single that I made.
And try and compare to what I'm doing now. What I'm doing now is what I always wanted to do right, [01:44:00] is come back to
Rob Ayala: my, my roots and and grind. If I could just jump in there, in that you can use Harman tobacco Ian wrapper.
Hamlet Paredes: Mm-hmm.
Rob Ayala: But it's not a formula process. It comes back to your binder, it comes back to your fillers.
It comes back to how do they marry, how do they all take time to, to blend together? Marry and, and that's the secret of it. Yeah. Anyone can use harm Australian wrapper, but you're still gonna get a different cigar. It comes back to how they marry. And in the world of blending one plus one plus one plus one doesn't make the final number.
You think it's gonna work, but it doesn't work. It doesn't. We're not formula driven in what we do. We're outcome driven in what we do. So it's, you get the humus on. Wrappers are really important. I know exactly what's bringing to that cigar. Bam. I know exactly what it's bringing to that cigar in terms of it.
But if we started [01:45:00] using different fillers, if we didn't, if we didn't use the fillers are also just as important, if not more. But what you want is that magic that comes together when you put the hummus tr wrapper with the exact right balance to get that outcome. And that is an art form. That's an art form, which Hamlet.
Achieves for these cigars. And so, yeah, it doesn't matter what manufacturer tomorrow, I mean, listen, there'd be plenty of guys using hamstone wrappers today, and the cigars don't taste anything like this. So the wrapper is just one piece of the process, one piece of the process.
Gizmo: So on that point, I think the thing that I have really admired about the cigars that I've smoked over the last few years, and a lot of which, most of which I've purchased, right?
I, you know, we know the, I, I did the tasting panel for these with Rob, you know, over the last couple years. But the thing that I go back to, and I think all of us do, is that once the flavor's been nailed, [01:46:00] the level of consistency in our expectation, right? That anytime any of us have lifted, you know, pulled a, a re robusto Trinity from the, from our humidor, or a NFA or any of those cigars, they taste very, very consistent.
The performance is always great. So, I know, and this is not very common, I think, and we talk about this a lot on the podcast, we talk about padron a lot in their consistency. When you pull up Padron, it tastes like the padron you had yesterday or last year, or five years ago. My question for you on the consistency piece is how have you nailed the consistency and how can you continue to do that?
I know Hamlet, we talked, you know, a few times over the weekend about some of the. Mechanisms, the, the processes, you know, the people that are allowing you to achieve that. But I think that is a real standout factor in what you're doing here, is that I can pull any of these cigars at any time and I know exactly what I'm gonna get.[01:47:00]
Rob Ayala: It's one of the most, um,
one of the things that gives me most pride is, is in terms of Nudies or De Nuo or Bond Roberts, you want a DNA, you want a DNA in that profile. Again, coming from a, a Cuban background, when you pick up an up man, it's got an up in DNA as Saint Louis Ray. God knows there's only one left or two left, left. In the pro.
It's got the St. Louis Ray, DNA. You pick up a Bond Roberts cigar, you pick up a Snu cigar or a MoFA, it'll be a little bit different. But they've got their DNA in terms of that. I'd love that aspect of cigars. I wanna maintain a DNA aspect in that cigars and Hamlet achieves that outcome. In terms of DNA,
Hamlet Paredes: what I love
Rob Ayala: about
Hamlet Paredes: us is we don't bullshit.
If we like it, we'll put it out there. [01:48:00] And the feedback from you guys is the reality. We're making good cigars that we love, and I know, and he knows that you guys. Love, and I'm gonna go beyond that for me as a blender and dealing with people like you, that fucking small Cuban cigars, how the fuck I gonna compare myself as a blender using non Cuban tobacco, making you fucking self to put that cigars in you every day.
Smoke as a premium choice. As a Cuban. Yeah. What's in, do you know what? I just dropped the freaking mic. Mm-hmm. Right there.
Bam Bam: Yeah. So it's a great point. Look, you know what I mean? We, we have talked about how expensive Cuban cigars have become. We have our collections, they're extensive. [01:49:00] But when we came across this, GIZ introduced us to this tier line of products.
It has superseded our desire, me personally, to pursue. I don't often grab for my Cubans, I'll grab for one of your products. Like for me, the Trinity Reus, though. I love you man. I love you. This is incredible. But lemme say one thing, love. I love every one of you for that. But this, this, this, this particular cigar, I'm smoking right now.
I can't wait for this to come out. I'm gonna pursue this heavily and I know chef behind me, me phenomenal. Yeah, the phenomenon. It's, that's really good.
Gizmo: That's bull dude. He's, come on, by the way, for the listener, bam. Has his fingernails Come on. Grabbing the tip of that cigar. What are you down to a, let me
Bam Bam: just say one thing.
Half an inch for a cigar of this size, for it to be consistent down to about a half inch. It hasn't gotten hot. There's no ammonia. It's smooth. All of the notes that I discussed early on in the evening are still here. Yep. Which is why I want another one right after this, because I just want to [01:50:00] continue that, uh, that that experience.
Bam. I
Rob Ayala: was just gonna say that we're not here to replace Cuban cigars at all. No, no. At all. Because I love Cuban scars. Of course. I'll, I'll smoke Cuban cigars for the day I die. Of course. And, but what we wanted to do is put something in your rotation that provides an opportunity Of course, to try something more.
That's exactly, and that's all it is. That's all it's think all of us
Rooster: are smoking either a Fabrica five or a Bond Robert, a daily, if not daily, at least I would say weekly. Yeah. Yeah. You know, at least like maybe one or two a week or more or more. Some of us are smoking more. I mean, there's no doubt. Yeah.
Bam Bam: But there's a interesting complexity to this that I don't, I don't get in a lot of the Cubans. I, I love my Cuban cigars, but there's something here. I can't put my finger on it. They're very flavorful. This is delivering a
Chef Ricky: four act play. All at once. But here's the thing, throughout the entire ci,
Bam Bam: that act is the same act, but it's, it's just changing with every three inch, it's the large cigar.
So every three or four inches, you're getting a different experience, but there's a consistent [01:51:00] thread that takes you from beginning to end. That's kudos to the blender. But weren't you skeptical about this cigar when you saw it
Chef Ricky: a little, yeah, I was
Bam Bam: ready to go off on this because I don't often, we don't enjoy cigars of this size.
Sure. I was not expecting what I got tonight.
Chef Ricky: Well, I wasn't ready to go off in front of the blender, but
Bam Bam: No, no. But for a cigar of this size, fuck usually doesn't, it doesn't perform this way. Yeah. It just doesn't happen.
Gizmo: I can't tell you the last large format, Cuban cigar, it's insane. To go back to Rob's point about smoking Cubans that y you know, delivered on every point flavor, there are maybe two combustion, 1, 2, 1 or two performance construction, all of it consistently.
That's correct's so hard to find. I mean, we've had a couple hits on the pod, but then you go back and revisit them out of another box or another, you know, a box code or different something else. It's, and it's completely different. And that's my point to, to Robin Hamlet here is that's our challenge. That consistency piece is, you know, that padron level, that's huge.
We keep talking about that huge, that consistency piece. The, every time you pull one out, you're getting the same [01:52:00] thing. You know it. That is the most unbelievable piece of all of this. To me,
Rob Ayala: that's our challenge and that's the reason why we've moved to our own factory, a small boutique factory. That we can control every aspect of that.
So effectively from every, all production as you, every, everything that you've smoked tonight is from a production of, um, early April. Wow. Early April. It's, it's incredible. It just, it just doesn't add early April. And I, I didn't wanna bring the, I didn't wanna bring the one oh nines that we rolled last year, which will be released now.
I wanted to bring stuff that we, the one oh nines we actually released tonight, and the Fenómenos, which gonna, which we rolled two weeks ago. Uh, that's what I wanted to do because in the end, um, I go back to it. Tasting fresh cigars is really important and I want, bam, I want you, when, when the Fenómenos come out, et cetera, and you, you get some Fenómenos, please.
And, and then you've now got. You've smoked it the first [01:53:00] day, effectively the first month mm-hmm. That they were ever produced. Incredible. And you can now go back in two and three years time and, and see the evolution. And I'm just as excited as you are, you know, other than
Bam Bam: Gizmo, which he's probably the only guy in the room other than the two of you.
Of course I'm not g I'm not gonna speak for you. I've never had, haven't ever had a cigar this young that was rolled so recently that performs like this. Mm-hmm. So it just goes to show that there's a future trajection on this that could be incredible.
Gizmo: And for me, my experience is so interesting. Again, I, this is the first 109 I had tonight since I talked about it, doing it a couple years ago on the tasting panel.
And it is exactly as I remember it. That is so mind blowing to me that that has been achieved. And the fact that when you put out 50 cabs of these, I'm going to load up my tower with as many of those 50 cabs as I can get because it is consistent. It is giving me what I want. It's Cuban esque, but it's, it's, it's complex and [01:54:00] it's delivering every single time in every aspect of the cigar.
Rob Ayala: And I'll jump in there just to say that the cigar you smoked tonight was made from a different factory. And so that goes complete kudos to, to Hamlin. Who is brilliant, my nemesis. Pain in the ass. Your music. Yes, it's actually that. But to be able to achieve that, to be able to achieve that outcome is a point of passion.
It's a point of, I mean, we have some fantastic people we're talking about Hun and in our factory, those guys worked with us three, four years ago. They know our blends, they know exactly what we're doing. Hamlet is there so often monthly in there in Dunley, just, just getting the culture right of what we wanna do.
We're not gonna do three, we're not gonna, we're not gonna be a 20 million, 30 [01:55:00] million cigar producer, or I shouldn't talk to my accountant first. But, um, but what we, you know, if you look at the guys I respect in this industry, you respect the perrons, you know, you respect the, you respect the Pete Johnson's.
Let's keep it to where we can control it, to where we can be super proud of what we do, the way we can catch up for lunches as we do now, and with you guys where we can laugh and smile and, and, and spend time at each other's weddings and, and God christenings and things over the years. Let's just be proud of what we're doing and, and I'm so proud of what we've achieved in such a short period of time.
Chef Ricky: I, I can't help but think about as, as I sit here and I, and I watch the interaction between you and Hamlet, and I understand this interaction very well. Uh, Hamlet, I have three partners, none of who have restaurant experience outside of the current restaurant that we're, we've been operating [01:56:00] for the last, uh, 14 years together.
But, um, I can't help but think about how amazing you feel right now hearing all of this great feedback, but also of how difficult we're making some future conversations, uh, because I feel like Hamlet today feels very validated in his, in, in everything that he does. And, um, he feels very good about this.
And any future criticism is gonna be like, Hey, but what this is doing, yeah. This is setting the bar
Bam Bam: very, very high tonight.
Rob Ayala: Exactly. Yeah. It is. And it, it is a challenge for us. And it's, it's, it, it's something that I've seen, I've watched some great non Cuban cigar manufacturers come through the nineties when I, when I first started, um, who released some brilliant cigars only to.
Have to sell out after two or three years to the majors because they couldn't control the level of growth. They couldn't control the quality aspect, [01:57:00] the blend, consistency. They couldn't control any of those. And we're not gonna do that. We don't, we don't need to do that. We can just take our time, just get it right, enjoy the process.
And, uh, I'm very confident in our future and what we're gonna do.
Hamlet Paredes: Thank you so much. Uh, I'm, I'm been, I mean, I'm so proud of myself because, and exposing myself for the last three days to you guys to criticize the way you won what I did. So to me, it doesn't matter how much of a good cigars are or not, it's all about, at the end of the day, us, the, the good time we're having together.
And that's what we're building up for the last [01:58:00] three years. And we, no boy sharing. We, we do this every day. We listen to you, we hang out with you. We change what we have to, or we don't give a fuck what you're telling me. But that's a real life. So for me, having er, er smoking a freaking, he love lucid tennis from Cuba.
Look at this. That was a lucinia. Look at this. How small it goes to, to me, I'm so proud of myself. I, I create that. Nobody did that before. Uh, or, or to see you smoking a cigarette that I, that it wasn't in the war. I just put it out. And now we're talking about, that's my point of view. And I, and I'm [01:59:00] going into this, uh, normal life, bringing a product that I just create that I like and I want to put it out.
And you guys only smoke pretty much Cuban cigars, 99%. And we are discussing about this cigar that have zero Cuban tobacco, but it's so close the given sense to me. Is the best in the war, you know? And we feel
Pagoda: very lucky and fortunate as well to try, you know, and experience something you've just created.
Yeah. Not, not everyone gets that opportunity either, so
Chef Ricky: I could only guess where no boxes and no bands came from. But I think I know where no bullshit came from. That's, that's where the, we don't give a fuck. [02:00:00] That's it. I, I like that one even better. We don't give a fuck, bro.
Hamlet Paredes: Man, you, you, you are a cook. So you, I believe you don't give, I mean, you, you do give a little fuck about percent.
Yeah. We, we have to give some fucks, but I know what you mean percent. I know what you mean, how the Yeah. That the plate is set up. Yeah. But at the end of the day, when I take a bite, if I don't like it, I don't say that. We just throw everything out there, but I just, the meaning which I love strongly in my, in my heart is it's all about the cigars.
And I love Roba for that. He shared up with me, we and I, and when I found people like you, I'm fucking like, wow. Like this is a wow for me, man. Honestly, because. [02:01:00] You just, it's all about the cigars and the, and the flavor. You don't looking at the freaking box, how the box looks like, or the bands or three or four.
I'm not against that. It's okay, but it's not our game. Our game is the freaking true. We're talking about cigars. That's it. Good cigars. And we make good cigars for good people. That's what we do. If you wanna join that, you are welcome. If you don't, it's okay. But that's what we do. Just make fucking good cigars for good people, good smokers.
That's it. Simple as that,
Pagoda: which leads to really good experiences for sure.
Gizmo: So as we wrap up our evening here, I have one more question for the Oracle. I have to ask this question because we get asked these questions a lot and I'm, it's gonna be a two part question, but it's the same one. I [02:02:00] would love to know your kind of Oracle viewpoint.
What do the next three to five years look like for Cuban cigars? And what do the next three to five years look like? For Fabrica five,
Rob Ayala: it start on Cuban cigars. Um, I think 25 26 is gonna be a sliding door moment in the world of Cuban CIGAs as a retailer. And a significant retailer, Cuban cigars you, you're already seeing in this world.
And we discussed this, George, you're already seeing some, some iconic cigars that are now sitting on the shelves strictly through a price point issue. I dunno, of too many retailers in the world who could move Monte fours at the moment of Monte Petit Mundo, Kaba Sigler wine, Sigler, two siglo threes. It's really nice.
I understand from an ROI perspective [02:03:00] that London's performing exceptionally well. The top end of the town that, uh, the Middle East is performing well, the top in the town that Hong Kong and China are performing. Well, the top in the town. But what do you do when 20, 30% of your portfolio is not no longer moving?
No longer moving? So I, I'm intrigued as a businessman, as an entrepreneur, I'm intrigued as a Hano dealer, I'm intrigued as to where the decisions are gonna be made over the next two to three years to reinvigorate. I mean, I can't re I, I, I'd be, I'd be amazed to know when the last box of Monte number ones were salt.
Sixes, no problems at all. You've got all your rib robusto, robusto, no problem D fours, no problems at all. But now you're in a situation where a significant percentage of your retailer portfolio is not moving. So there are [02:04:00] questions to be asked, and there are decisions to be made by much higher people than myself in terms of Haos and, uh, where they're gonna go.
So they've had a fantastic couple of years. Let's not face it. They, they've made 800 million this year or last year, and no doubt they, they're getting closer to the billion dollar mark. But you do, there, there are challenges in that. You can't, you can't cover over. What's happening in the marketplace, and I am looking forward to seeing how they're gonna handle that moving forward.
It's now coming up to, uh, we're coming into May, and I know that there's a global price increase again in May. Yikes. I know I got the price list. I got the price list yesterday. I haven't drunk enough to look at it, but I will. The night's still young. Yeah, [02:05:00] I will on the plane some stage the next couple of days, and there's nothing we can do about that.
That's the Cuban side. I and everyone else. Yes, the market is good. It's a really good market. But there are, you know, if you look at, if you look at just your, your base numbers, including retailers, et cetera, Banno or whatever it is, the numbers look good, but that's only tells part of the story. And there are some challenges for them and there's challenges for retailers in the world today, and we'll see how that pans out for the remainder of 2025 and 2026.
I have called this wrong so many times. I thought the price increases would really be largely disastrous. Uh, but they haven't been for the organizations and they really haven't been for retailers around the world, if you've got the stock supply, your margins have increased or your margins have remained the same, but the box prices have increased, supplies decreased slightly or significantly, but in the end you're making the same sort of dos.
DOS [02:06:00] being dollars. Um, in terms of Fabrica five, in terms of Bond Roberts, we'll take every opportunity that's in front of us over the next five years. We are very, very lucky in that we have, uh, integral group, that we have the distribution already in place. We have our partners already in place, so friends of mine like Rob Fox, friends of mine, like Ravi Banney, who, so we have actually vertically integrating but backwards and putting it into a distribution mechanism that is global.
So, so my greatest challenge is to ensure our production is our blending, our production is 100% to meet that requirement. Do we wanna be the biggest in the world? No. We just wanna be one of the best in the world.
Hamlet Paredes: Mm-hmm.
Rob Ayala: And look, I'm 60 at the moment, turn 60 this year. So if I could leave this, um, [02:07:00] finish this industry, pass it on to, to my kids for Ben's involved.
Um, my sons are involved in this industry. Hamlet, Hamlet's sons are involved in this industry. If we could just pass on the baton that I can run another generation, I would love that so much. If I could share the secret that it's not about cigars and it's not about price points, it's not about ROI, it's about you get involved in this industry because, and they are involved in this industry.
You get involved because of the, I just wanna share the friendships that I've made and, and the opportunities that it creates. Let's just have a little bit of fun. Let's make a little bit of money. Let's have a little bit of fun along the way.
Rooster: So I have a question about the Haos pricing. Do you feel that the Cuban cigars were underpriced five years ago before the, before these ridiculous price increases?
And have they gone too far, too quick?
Rob Ayala: I [02:08:00] think that they were underpriced against a, let's call it a US standard. So when you can buy and, and, and because the market rua rua before. Before the price increases, you had London at a, at a significant price increase, uh, a significant price. Um, pinnacle. You had Hong Kong slightly below and everyone else was all all around the place.
And you had a massive arbitrage market around the world in terms of Cuban cigars. People gonna, Cuba buying cigars, bringing it out. Retailers are screaming in the end what they did by removing the arbitrage market, by increasing the prices dead set, smart move. If I was an entrepreneur, if that was my company, that's exactly what I would've done.
If you could buy online a Parus D four for $8 and yet a padron rub robusto for the same price, 1964, whatever it is, is 22, 20 [02:09:00] $4. Yeah. Dead set. It, it was underpriced and it's not go into quality issues and the consistency issues, but it was underpriced. The problem I had was when you make sweeping, sweeping mm-hmm.
Price increases so quickly and, and you, and you, and you rule and you, and it's not going to tariffs, but if you go into, into a point, we don't have that kind of time, but if you go into a point where you put a formula in place that just pushes everything up to a point, there are gonna be some breaks. And the breaks right now are Kaba, Siglo one, Siglo two, Siglo, three, Mon Fours, Mon Petit Mundo, et cetera.
There are some breaks and there's some holes there. How they handle that rooster, we're gonna find out because those products aren't gonna move nowhere near. So money, money four was the number one selling singer in the world. Now I doubt it's in the top 10. Wow. Doubt. It's in the top 20. [02:10:00] Do you see them scaling back their prices ever?
No. Well, I told you about my price increase. It just came through and that's what the ba bam. No. Is that the
Gizmo: price increase in the last five years? Uh,
Rob Ayala: it, it would be, well,
Gizmo: right?
Rob Ayala: It, it's, the price increases normally come through May each year, but they, um, they decided to get ahead of themselves or, or, or, or, or, you know, normally price increases are 5%, five to 7% per annum.
But when they did the 33, 100%, one 50, we are so outta whack at the moment in, in 10. And some of those cigars are fine. What concerned me was I thought that Dipple Monaco number two was a brilliantly valued cigar until they decided to make that, and now they're looking at these prices. They decided to put a 25% price increase Wow.
On the dip twos last year. That's ridiculous. They did and they, they, they just, just bang. [02:11:00] And it's global now. It doesn't matter if you go to Havana anymore. Or you go to London or you go there, or you go to Hong Kong effectively, yeah, you might save a hundred or 200. But really now they're pretty well they, they have, yeah.
They're
Gizmo: pretty level.
Rob Ayala: They've achieved. I, I didn't, I didn't think they could do it. When they first muted this in 2002, I didn't think they would be able to do it. I thought, ugh, kudos to them. They've actually achieved a global market that's roughly equivalent on price. And from a business perspective, from an entrepreneur, entrepreneur's perspective, you gotta think, wow, kudos to do that in such a short period of time.
But there's a price to pay. And the price to pay is that you've just lost 40%, 30% of your marketplace, your core consumer. And those core consumers are going to other cigars.
Pagoda: Sure. They're created a volume. They're non
Rob Ayala: Cubans, they're going to other cigars, and we've filled that hole in part, [02:12:00] and that's fine.
But do they care about that? To be honest, I don't think so. No. And, and then they'll just produce the numbers of what they achieved last year in terms of profitability, the most profitable year in haos in history, and not just slightly 20, 25% above the year before. Come on. Why are they gonna change? Yeah, it's incredible.
Why change it? What they doing? Why would they change? Why change it? Why would you change it? I wouldn't, what is your business? Yeah, your vis, why would you change? It's Sam. So now again, they have some holes. They have some cracks appearing on the periphery. So whether they reduce those prices, which I doubt say on a money four, they reposition it, they repackage it, they do something different.
They've moved me on to travel retail, I have no idea. But um, at the moment I assume they're thinking we're doing pretty much everything. Right.
Gizmo: So I have to say as we wrap up our evening here, the cigars tonight were brilliant. I think everybody here would agree
Bam Bam: they [02:13:00] were awful.
Gizmo: You just want another one.
Bam Bam: I do.
Gizmo: But I have to say, Rob, not only thank you for coming to New York, spending this time with us at our lounge in our community, embracing us, our people at the lounge, all of our friends there. You've been so generous. You guys have been so generous with cigars and knowledge, information, education. You both signed some autographs, I think, you know, but, uh, I have to say as well, uh, inside this room and for our podcast, you have been, and I say this at the end of every episode.
You have been incredible partners to us, incredible supporters of this podcast and what we do, not just in being our presenting sponsor, but every week on the forum, you know, Rob puts up a thread, pins it, make sure that the, you know, the forum members are able to see that. So I just wanna share my gratitude to you in person for your support of what we're doing and, and it really feels [02:14:00] great.
And to have you here and to be able to speak truthfully to your faces about how we feel about your cigars, about you as people feeling that you've invited us into this fraternity of fabric of five, this friendship, this brotherhood. Um, it feels really good. It feels really complete. And through this very busy, somewhat sleepless weekend, I was telling my wife earlier, I really have felt great.
Yeah, I feel good. We've learned so much this weekend and I've learned so much. Correct. You know, so I just, I wanted to say that to you on behalf of all of us, that this has meant a lot to us.
Rob Ayala: Mate. Thank you so much and we're so grateful. Thank you so much. Um, fabric, fabric five Hamlet and I sponsored the podcast specifically.
In fact, it's the only sponsorship we do in the world. We don't actually need to do sponsorship, but I love the fact of what you do and
Hamlet Paredes: you're the only guys that we are sponsoring [02:15:00] in the world. Honestly. That sounds right. One, yeah.
Rob Ayala: Yeah. I mean, I love, I listen to you guys when I walk to the gym, uh, in the mornings.
Just avoid the atonement. I, I I love everything that you guys do in this community. You're not influencers, not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with the, the current range of influence. It's a whole different market. You come from a point of soul and base that I can relate to, that my members can relate to in FOH.
That, that, um, you are, you are old school, you're educating, you're illuminating, you're entertaining, you're good people. And thank you so much for everything you've done for us this last two days here. It's been a brilliant experience. One, I look forward to repeating. I can't wait to get back. Foxy was saying this afternoon, cannot wait to get back.
Yeah. So [02:16:00] this is, this is our community. This is our. Type of platform that we love and that we'll always be involved with. Thank you so much.
Gizmo: Thank you. Yeah, thank you. What a great night. What a great weekend. Incredible. Of brilliant cigars. Absolutely. I really enjoyed this conversation tonight. I think you used the word soul.
We've talked about community. I think that comes through tonight. And the fact that we can sit here and even if we didn't like the cigars we smoked tonight, I know that we could have had the same level of authentic conversation. I think that means a lot. Sure. And, and to extend that to the listener, and we say this, you know, when I run those ads on the front of the episode, talking about Fabrica five, anybody can have this conversation with Robin Hamlet via the forum via, you know, sending Rob a message on FOH.
You can find Hamlet, I'm sure on various platforms, Alito, and they, and they want to hear what we have to say. This feedback is so unique and, [02:17:00] and the reaction to it and the ability to create iteration so quickly is so amazing to me. And like I said, we smoked 10 day old cigars today. Yes.
Hamlet Paredes: But you know what guys, it's not about us.
It's about you guys. We, we, we were talking about this at lunchtime.
You guys are in, in a freaking different fucking level. It, it is so hard to find. A group of people that everybody is in the same page with knowledge and understanding and easygoing. I'm not bullshitting you. You know me, George, and you, senator. You know me. Okay? 20 years now, two days going on 20 years. [02:18:00] And that's the beauty of this.
And you only, and we were talking about this, about, you know, Rob Fox, Robla and Hamlet, myself, we're talking this during lunch today. How the fuck do you find a group of people is fucking weird?
It is, man. Like,
Rooster: do you believe in destiny? I do. I do. A stronger belief in there's something
Hamlet Paredes: to that. No, honestly not, because I don't give a fuck. I'm here with you right now. I'm just saying. I'm speaking to my soul. Do you know why? Hamlet and I, I feel like I, I made you guys for fucking 20 years, and I know you feel the same shit.
Mm-hmm. And that's in two days. If you achieve that, give me a fucking break.
Rooster: You know why? Because we were friends before we started this podcast. [02:19:00] So we were all friends. We used to hang out, we
Senator: used to smoke cigars, but we met by the same luck and chance that we met Robin Hamlet. And that's what's so special about That's correct.
This product and what it does for people.
Hamlet Paredes: Yeah. But the, the quality I wanna make this, I wanna bring this fucking point myself, the quality of human beings that I, myself, I speaking for myself that I got in this three days here. I never had it, like actually had it before A few times, maybe two times, but now I don't feel as good, but No, no, no.
But you know, you get the plus because you fucking New Yorkers so fuck yourself. And I'm wearing a, now I feel better. Fuck you man. And I'm fucking [02:20:00] wearing a fucking LA Dodgers fucking hat right now. Yeah. We're burning that tonight. Just gimme seance tonight. We're gonna burn that hat. That's a plus of this.
No, I mean, myself, man. And I, I think I, speaking for us, it's just amazing. Like, and we know, we, we, we, we read the crowd. We know the people like in five minutes. You like, you motherfucker, George, you, you not a human being. You are an alien. You're an alien. He's a giz. We kind of agree. No, he's a fucking alien.
That's why they call me Gizmo. He's a fucking alien. Like the way this guy, like as a human being is I'm a motherfucker, man. Just so happy and glad that I'm not gay, otherwise I married you motherfucker. So that's it. Love you guys.
Gizmo: That is a [02:21:00] perfect way to end this fantastic two and a half hour conversation.
I think I speak for everybody. Again, thank you guys for coming to our home, spending this weekend with us being so generous. I've said it before, I'll say it again. It's really meant a lot to us. It's meant a lot to our friends, our members at the club. Um, it's, it's just been a real special experience, you know, so I, I, I just have to say, I can't wait to do it again.
I hope it's soon.
Rooster: Can we set a date?
Gizmo: Yeah. We'll set a date when we end this tonight. But, uh, it's been great. So, uh, thank you guys so much and, uh, we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod.com.
That's loungelizardspod.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're [02:22:00] smoking, email us hello@loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod.
We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.