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A podcast for Channel Marketers, Channel Waves is a place where channel leaders share success strategies, best practices and emerging trends, brought to you by Structured.
Welcome everyone to ChannelWaves
StructuredWeb's view into Everything Channel.
I'm your host, Stephen Kellam.
Very happy to have Rebecca
Jones joining us today.
Hi Rebecca.
Hi Steven.
How's it going?
Well, so Rebecca is the Chief Growth
Officer and COO at Bridge Partners, one
of our strategic partners.
So very excited to have her here
because we keep talking about
partner experience and we're going
to talk about how AI has affected
partner experience in particular.
It's kind of hard to do a podcast today
and not have AI in it completely.
I don't know who's not talking about
it or thinking about it, figuring out
ways to transform that experience.
So just it's embedded now.
Oh, absolutely.
I think one of the interesting things
and the places we're going to start
is we were talking about self serve.
And those who have listened to my podcast
know I used to be a partner and self
serve was part of the long tail.
And Rebecca and I were talking
about it, I would say that
self serve was considered a negative.
Right, Right.
Because you, you were
kind of on your own.
Right.
You weren't part
of the 300 managed partners.
Even though the long tail is
very important economically,
it doesn't make sense.
And Rebecca and I were talking
about how maybe self serve
has become a good thing.
Because the question I'd asked Rebecca
was okay, if I'm one of the 300 managed
partners and I've got someone helping
me, which is great, but wouldn't you
rather be able to do some things on
your own?
I'm not talking about
replacing the H2H, Human to Human
Right, Right.
But the ability to do some things
on your own I think would
actually be a pretty good thing.
Thing.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think back to where we started that
conversation around self serve and your,
your point is absolutely correct.
It's kind of reserved for the long tail.
Right.
Yeah.
And now when you think about self
serve or you know, self serve 2.0,
it's from a go to market
standpoint, it's transformational.
And we are talking about really looking
at inversing that pyramid on how can
you think differently around self serve
for every partner type that you have
your most strategic partners, the high
growth ones, and your long tail about
using that as a competitive
differentiator.
So yeah, I think, I think it's
a fascinating topic for us to get into.
Yeah.
I could see a managed partner
still wanting to have the human
to human around the strategy.
Right.
Still, how do I be successful?
What, what makes me, what
makes me different?
How do we work together?
But it's the underlying pieces
that I can get accomplished where
I don't have to wait for that data or I
can come in and get some things done.
Yeah, 100%.
And so there are just some fascinating.
I always like to look at the market
and the statistics there about
what is really driving
that behavior or that desire
for a different partner experience.
And if you think about it from a B2B
side, over 30% of those,
transactions for B2B today are digital.
Right.
If you have e-commerce.
And when you think about the comfort
level with self serve from a B2B
buying perspective, over $500,000.
This is the market.
This, I find this absolutely fascinating.
Over $500,000.
There's a comfort level now
of making transactions
at that point for a B2B buyer.
I think it's over the 39 or
40% somewhere in there.
Maybe 40.
Well, we'll go with 40 because
39 and 40 are real close.
Right.
It's a pretty high amount.
Yeah, it's a high amount.
And when you think about partners and
the consumer wants this self driven
experience and the strategic
opportunity and where AI can really
play a role, partner experience
that, that can be ultimately
transformed as well.
And you can apply this consumer grade
driven experience for partner
and that's a huge unlock for businesses
to really think about differently.
You do, but I'm going
to jump right into it.
Right.
You're going to actually skip
over a few of our questions
because it goes to data.
Yes.
So my question is to you, what makes
someone comfortable with that and what
makes partners comfortable with that?
Self serve, what do you need to do
to make that work?
And then how is AI really
changing all of that?
Yeah, I think that's a great question
when you get down to the data,
because that's fundamental, it's
foundational into whatever you're
hoping to achieve with the partners.
But I would go back to really
understanding where that partner plays
in your customer journey.
And then we were just talking about your
most strategic partners, your high
growth and your long tail and what, what
do you need to help them be successful?
Especially if you're thinking about
Self serve or Self Serve 2.0.
And we could just start with your most
strategic partners and if you're
thinking about how do you enable them
differently, utilizing AI and a self
serve model, your most strategic ISVs,
how would that look like for your
business?
Right.
And how can you unlock that,
how can you help them drive and connect
those APIs in and what do
they need to drive that business?
And so I would say that from a data
perspective, you know, that that's going
to be absolutely critical,
in ensuring that you have the right
alignment between the business metrics.
And what do you need from both,
both sides to do that?
The world that I live in, I look at
what AI has done and the data that you
need to make a partner successful.
I think we can start with
the data about the partner.
Right?
So the more you know about the partner,
the more this gets into personalization.
Yes, it does.
And there's been machine learning for
a while about, okay, if it's tagged
correctly in your CRM that, maybe
you knew a little bit about where
the partner was, if you knew who the
partner was, and maybe you knew what
they had purchased historically, and
maybe you knew a little bit about
them.
But what AI I think, has done is it
allows the vendors to come in, everybody
who's listening, and then how do you
find out everything about this partner?
Right?
I mean, now you're scraping their
website, you're scraping the social,
you're scraping everything out there
to understand who, what,
where and the why of this partner.
So it's, you know, I come in, it
goes, oh, Steven, you live in
Napa, you sell into wineries, you sell
risk mitigation, business continuity,
and you sell into COOs.
Oh, wait, you're in the wine business.
By the way, here's all the things
that you need to know about what's
going on in the wine industry.
And then I think it's even to the point
where AI can say, and all of your
key buyers, here's all the information
about them and start to make it.
So not only is it personalized
for that partner, but is even helping
them make business decisions.
And it's helping, sorry,
I'm just trying to continue
And it's helping then the vendor
connect the partner with that buyer
so that there's a higher chance
of probability of success, right?
Absolutely.
And when you think about where you just
went through core personalization,
you're getting down to segment geo
specific, industry specific, who they
should or could go to market with.
How are these customers
ingesting the solution?
What partners are they bringing in? This
I mean, depending on the size partner,
they might not recognize all the players
that are at the table that are
helping deliver that customer solution.
So it's exponential knowing how
and strategically what to layer on
and what to be, tracking and helping
your partner be more successful.
So, you know, personalization absolutely
critical And I would say at all level,
if you think about it doesn't matter.
You know, a lot of that has been
reserved, most notably
for the most strategic partners.
But with AI you can really go
and help enable all of your partners.
High growth and long tail.
You know, I can't remember the matrix,
but somebody had a matrix that
had the partners in each one
and there was some where wasn't the high
performers but rising stars.
I'll just.
Yeah, I get.
Everybody has, everyone's got, everyone's
got a name, everybody's got a name.
We call it the rising star.
To me, I think the really interesting
thing is you can start to use AI
to figure out then you know,
you know, how do I, who are they?
Right.
And how do I get them from point A
to B and how do I make them successful?
I think I use someone use
the word democratizing.
Yeah, the ability for,
for partners to be successful.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that you know, wherever
you put those high growth, rising
stars, it is really unlocking.
And I think one of the other topics we
talked about is how do you use AI?
And let's just talk about those
partners in that, in that
area, that tier of partnership.
You really want to ensure that
you're helping support them to get
to that next level of growth
and achievement and accountability
to help sell on your behalf.
And so with, with AI there's so much more
you can be doing to track performance,
measurement, enablement and support
to meet them where they are.
And so you were just talking
about how do you figure that out
and get them along that path.
And I think there's just some really
interesting things that are happening,
lining them up with the three to five
plays that because you have so much
more knowledge and you can start to
automate how do you connect them where
they are, you know what your priorities
are as a business and then how do you
help get them on a path based on their
capabilities, their strengths to really
go sell for you.
And it's I think about from a consumer
side, Amazon's got me dialed in,
but what's the next best offer?
And with AI you can really, if you
know what they're bringing to market
and the play that they've got out
there, how do you help them with
that, the next best offer for that
partner in that scenario in that
industry and where they sit for that
customer segment.
So it's, it's incredibly powerful
to see how companies are starting
to layer this data on and use it
to drive business measures and success.
But it's not a magic wand.
It is not from my perspective
and I think I heard you say enablement
somewhere around six times.
Right.
So how does that play into what do
we, what do we need to do there?
Oh, second part to the question.
Two part question
And then maybe you can finish it off
with our move from generative to
agentic AI and where
that's going to help as well too.
Right.
I think they kind of go hand in hand.
Yeah.
I think about enablement and there
was if I'm recalling correctly, and
you and I both know this, how many
portals it's come to me partner
come to my portal and I believe it
was Canalys that put the report
out that behind help with AI and
enablement.
There, it is.
Portals are known to be opaque
for partners to navigate.
And how do they really get
to where they need to be?
And so when I think about
the opportunities for enablement,
there's a whole new world out there when
you start to apply solutions that
are built on AI for partners.
One, because the old method,
the old way you were really strapped
on how many partners could you
enable in what form or fashion?
And it was, you know, there
was always a self serve right.
Like go, go get this learning.
But the solutions that are out there
today to meet your partner where they
are and ensure that they have the right
level readiness and it's tuned
for their learning and the capabilities.
And you were just talking about
the capabilities, that can be
built into enablement today.
It's a whole new world.
And so I think you and I were
having a conversation around.
It's not really can we do this?
It's really ensuring it's
lining up to the strategy.
Like should you do this?
Don't worry about the tech anymore,
we can get it done.
But let's make sure that lines back up
to your goals and objectives and what
you're trying to accomplish in market.
No, I totally agree.
And it's really turning
into a just ask world.
Yes.
But here's the interesting thing.
I live in a just ask world.
I think you live in a just ask
world where we're very used to AI
not just even from the generative
side, but from the execution or
agentic side where you literally
are going to ask AI to do
something for you.
But we still need to get partners
at all levels and particularly in
the long tail, very comfortable
with okay, when I, when I show up
somewhere and someone says I just
need to ask, I can see a partner
going ask what?
What, what do I ask for?
What am I asking for?
So, so, so how do we, so how, how
do we, how do we make that happen?
How do we explain that?
And how do we get them comfortable
with, you know, okay, this is what's
going to be in front of me because I
truly believe, as you said, portals
are going to be very, very different
experience and I think they have to.
We were working with one vendor
who will remain nameless that
on their channel marketing portal.
753 pages in URLs
that a partner could actually go through
to create a campaign.
753, like is any partner
ever going to do that?
Right?
Never.
Never.
Right.
I would never go to a site
that gave me 750 pages.
Right?
Wait, you would go once.
Once.
Okay, I would go once.
Yeah.
You probably wouldn't go
back very often, would you?
No, no.
And who's got the time,
who's got the time to do that?
And I think that that is part
of that value exchange.
Who has the time?
The partner is coming to a portal or
an would say you asked about how do you
get long tail partners comfortable?
There's two sides, right?
There's the skilling side and really
understanding how did they
bring that into their business.
They need to be customer zero.
Right.
And they need to adopt a growth mindset
on you know that first level
is basic productivity and efficiency
and how do they bring that in?
And there's not a solution out there
today that isn't including
AI or some capability in there, but they
really do need to be customer zero.
And then when I think about the
opportunity for the companies,
enterprise companies that are building
and have large partner ecosystems that
they're looking to enable, how do they
use the technology and AI, you know, and
generative AI to build solutions that
that partner is interfacing with and
just gets more comfortable.
Because you and I both know once you
start to adopt it and use it, you learn.
Right?
And I always think about
that growth mindset.
You're, it's, it's got
to get uncomfortable and there's
a new method, new way.
And once you start to learn
that pathway is going to be much more
productive and get you
to those results faster and better.
Those partners will see that and,
and I, you know, I know firsthand
you've seen it and I've seen it.
The solutions where you start to
interface and you can go by voice
and other ways of like get me to
the pathway and as this, it's such
a rapid move right now, and what
the capabilities are and will be in
the future.
These use cases just keep coming out
that, you know, I'm, I'm so excited
around what we're going to be able
to do to really enable partners.
And I always say meet them where they
are, like that moment of relevance.
You know, we were talking
about personalization.
Whether it's a marketing leader,
a business leader, a more technical
leader coming in, what are they looking
for and how do you start to really
personalize that learning path for them?
And what are they trying to,
what do they need right now
to open up that new deal, accelerate
that, or get that closer to close?
Right.
And so regardless of partner size,
you know, your most strategic or your,
your long tail or your high growth,
the ones you're trying to nurture,
these experiences can be done.
You just have to strategically look
at the map and know where you do.
Where do you need these partners
across your customer journey?
And then how do you build a partner
experience, to allow them to be, better
at what they're trying to do for you?
Okay, one final question because, yeah,
I want to talk about
the vendors for a little bit
and what they can get out of this.
We can come back.
Let's do a second podcast on
generative to agentic,
because we could be for a while.
Here's what I find fascinating.
Vendors have always wanted to know what
partners think, the less they need.
And if you ask, if you would ask
senior directors, VP level at a big
vendor, like, how can you build, you
know, partner engagement, they're
going to, well, ask them, you know,
talk to them.
Yeah, it's impossible
to talk to 5,000 partners.
Yes, impossible.
So I think AI, from my perspective,
the data that vendors can see when
partners are engaging and asking
questions and in that just ask
world seems like a treasure trove
to me for the vendor on seeing into
what partners need and how they can
help them.
What do you think?
I couldn't agree more.
If you think about voice, a partner
and the go have the classic
interview, it's what's not said
and what's being looked for.
And yes, I agree with you that there
are so many opportunities now, but it's
knowing where to look for that data
and knowing that it's there
and how to start layering that on.
And I think that for me it's there.
Right.
There's a lot of data being
collected and is it in the right
frame and the right form for you
to actually do something with.
Right.
And but I agree with you that there are
there's incredible amounts
of opportunity to really change
the game and get more strategic around
what you're offering and when.
And that's a great,
that's a great example.
I'm curious, you've asked me questions.
I'm curious from your perspective,
if you were thinking about Self Serve
2.0, what would be some of the core
capabilities that you would say?
This is, this is the vision
of the future.
Three things, right.
I think for the partner, once again it
needs to be at a just ask world at
the top of the portal, not further down.
So as soon as that partner is coming in,
don't make them go through five clicks
to get somewhere in the beginning.
Figure out how, how to do that.
Right.
And layer that, just ask across as
much as you can.
Second thing, make it everything
that you're investing in.
This is advantage purpose built
and partners will buy into it
because they have,
as you said, they're ROI'ing their time.
They have an objective.
They're not looking
for fluff around the AI.
It's like how do you help me
in this buyer's journey?
Right.
How do you, how can
you quickly get there?
Right.
So make it, just ask, make it easy.
Make it purpose built which
means add value to it, right.
So that there's value and they,
they want to come back.
And I think the third thing is,
take that data that's coming in.
I think the data that's coming in from
partners, when they interact that the
vendors can see inside of this just
world is chock full of things that
vendors can do to understand their
partners.
Don't ignore that data.
You should have a dashboard and you can
even use AI to analyze it like you know,
what are the biggest challenges your
partners are having in this vertical?
Selling this product.
And you can take it down to that.
You literally could have an AI,
you know, take it and look at that
and come back and say, hey, I need
battle cards against this competitor.
Heck, you could even, okay, this will say
the generative to the agentic overlap.
You can even have it
to ask the agent then to create a battle
card, against that competitor.
So now what you're doing
is building value.
I'll go back to, I said three things
but I think it's really two things.
Make it easy for partners.
Value.
And then take all that data.
So I guess it is three things and come
back and make it even easier.
Make it more valuable.
Yeah.
And just think about all the use cases
off that data and the mapping and we
could have a whole conversation around
partner assessment and maturity models.
Enlightening where you think
and where companies can start to see
where their part what their partners
are asking across a maturity index
through all of this data.
And to your point, it could be they're
looking for X, let's go build it.
And that could be moving to agentic.
And it's also really helping provide
more signals to the business.
Where are their partners in this
ecosystem and what are they looking for?
Even if they think that partner is that
high growth or strategic partner,
they might have some fundamental
questions that are coming in.
And that's where the human
expertise comes in.
We didn't talk much about that.
Like self serve, there's so
much there, but there's also
a need for human expertise.
And where do you put that human
expertise in your business?
If you can start to automate and start to
build on some of these other pieces that
now because of AI can be transformed.
So maybe that's another podcast.
Okay, sorry I can't help.
One last one thought of that note.
So you could literally what if.
And you could do this, right?
You could clone your concierge, your
CAMs and PAMss, that a lot of the work
that they're doing for their partners,
you could create 20 agents, you could
build whatever agent you want.
Right.
This is on the agentic side and once
again I think we'll do a separate
podcast on that and you could clone
a lot of what's happened and
basically this is the democratizing
it, right?
You're taking a lot of what you've done
for the strategic partners.
Now you're doing it for the long tail
now you still have the H2H, you
still have the human to human for
those top 300 because you know,
strategic conversations, you're
going to invest in them but you can
make that world so much better for
that long tail.
Oh, both of the long tail and your
strategic partners, right.
If you think about what you could really
drive and allow the CAMs and PAMs to
focus on the most strategic deals, the
I'll call it the, the expert advice or
the escalations that really make the
moment in time and change that quarter
or that fiscal year end top line versus
having them move paper around or some of
the old pieces and then to your point,
on that long tail you can start to
replicate and take pieces that will
really start to move the needle, for
those other partners as well.
So you know that's a great example
and where we're seeing a lot of
opportunity and solutions going in,
to really help the experts scale.
Exactly.
Okay, one predictive question for you.
So here's what I see
and here's what I've heard.
You can tell me big I'm right on this,
is that they've shown clearly that
really good CAMs and PAMs strategically
working with a partner can increase 30%.
They can see an uplift if they're
really engaging strategically in that.
Right.
So with AI coming in and AI being able
to do a lot of the, call it, grunt work,
execution work, otherwise cams or pans.
So what do you do?
Do you take the CAMs and PAMs and have
them be able to handle more partners?
So now you can have 500 strategic partners
with 30% growth with instead of 300.
Or this is a scary thing.
Do you say, yeah, and we need, 60% of,
my CAMs and PAMs and I'll cut my costs
there and I'll get the same thing.
Where do you think people are going
to hit, oh, or do you double down
on your CAMs and PAMs
and do that alignment more efficiently
and productively?
That is a tough one.
Right.
For businesses to think about.
And when I look out, I truly believe
that human expertise plus
the innovation and transformation
is where the magic lies.
So having a CAM or PAM scale across
more partners, do you really
feel like, think about this
partnerships are all about relationships.
Right.
An ecosystem all about relationships.
So does that really putting them
in highest and best use?
And how do you think about that business
problem or that business opportunity?
Really, we're creating a new
business opportunity for companies.
How do you think about, how could
you structure that differently?
So, I'm, I'm going to say I'm going to
think about that one for you, Steven.
So I'm going to quote Asher Matthew
who said, I'm paraphrasing that great
partnerships were about taking advantage
of existing relationships.
Yes.
And do you agree?
Yes.
Great partnerships are all
about relationships.
If you think about, at the end
of the day, we've talked about self
serve and all these different ways
to accelerate the buying process.
But one thing is for certain, when
you think about after that purchase
has happened, you really do need
that relationship and those
relationships of, how do you start
to think about bringing those
solutions together?
And so I agree with you 100%
and or Asher, as we're quoting him,
it's all about trusted relationships.
And so how do you scale that
capability and that expertise.
But you're not going to scale it
through simply technology.
No.
Totally agree.
All right, Rebecca, thank you
for spending some time with us.
Absolutely.
It was.
Go ahead.
I was going to say it was such a pleasure
to have this conversation
and looking forward to a few more.
Me, too.
So what's the best.
Most people know you, but what's
the best way to reach you?
I, would say the best way to reach me,
simply, put, is LinkedIn.
And then I will be at a number
of customer and industry conferences
this fall, and I hope to see a lot
of folks at those events as well,
in person, in real life.
Okay.
With all the AIs going, we're
still all getting out there
to build relationships, aren't we?
I think that's the coolest thing.
I think my schedule is busier than ever.
Lots of AI.
Well, that's the cool thing.
AI is allowing us to get out
there and do these things.
It is.
It is to do the important work
of seeing people in person.
Totally good.
All about relationships.
All right, Rebecca, thank you.
All right, thanks, Steven.
Thanks, listeners.
Viewers.
Have a great day!