Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Unashamed Unafraid is a show dedicated to being unashamed about sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing. Pornography and sexual addiction are not something you are stuck with to manage your whole life. We share real stories of recovery, the best resources, information from experts, and answer anonymous questions with those who know. All to help you on the path of being 100% healed from pornography and sexual addiction.
Speaker 17: Tryna walk the walk.
Truth on the mic, no shame
here, just real talk.
Came from the outside, never fit in.
Now we tell the story
and the healing begins.
No front, no mask, just telling the truth.
Keep it real, keep it raw,
speaking straight from the booth.
If you feeling like an
outsider, this one's for you.
Uh.
Yeah
Speaker: Welcome to another
episode of Unashamed, Unafraid.
We are unashamed of sexual
addiction recovery and unafraid of
coming out of Christ for healing.
Welcome to another Live Unashamed episode.
Speaker 2: We got four
of us in the house today,
Speaker: folks.
Whoo-hoo.
Four in the house.
Four brothers in the house, you might say.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is very convenient
as we are talking about brotherhood.
Speaker 2: Wait, so is
brotherhood important?
Speaker: I don't know.
You tell me, Chris.
You're 18 years sober.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty sure
it's a important part of recovery
.
Okay.
I, I think, I think the very first-
Take it away ⦠line of what
we're talking about is perfect.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
I agree, except I already
forgot what the first line was.
Brotherhood
Speaker 2: is not optional.
Speaker 3: Um- This
Speaker: episode's already a dumpster
Speaker 2: fire.
And, and so many people think it is.
So many people think, "I don't need it.
Brotherhood's not for me."
Speaker 3: Yeah.
So brotherhood really is not optional.
Coming from somebody like myself who has
tried to do it by himself for, close to
19 years, I was never successful until
I found a brotherhood, until I found
men in my life that I could connect
with, that understood what I was going
through, and that I could talk to.
Because, you know, it's important if
you're married or you have a significant
other, it's important to, to involve
them in your recovery, to talk about
those things, but you don't need to
put all the burden on your partner.
That's what a brotherhood is for-
That's right ⦠is to go to people
to talk about what is going on in your
life, the good, the bad, the ugly,
the beautiful, and to have support.
And there's so many men out there that
are feeling completely and totally alone.
I mean, Mason, when, when you and I met
at Warrior Heart Boot Camp, a couple years
ago probably now, when we first started
talking and I told you my story about
addiction and recovery, what, what wasâ¦
Do you remember what you said to
me, the first thing you said to
me after you, I told you my story?
Speaker 4: I don't remember, but
I know you remember 'cause we just
talked about it like a week ago
Speaker 3: Yes, we did
Speaker 4: So I forgot already
Speaker 3: So what Mason
said to me, he literallyâ¦
So I tell him this whole story about,
about my addiction, and then he just
looks at me and he says like, "I don't
have friends that talk about this."
He's like- Yeah ⦠"I have
friends that look at porn.
I know that they do.
But when I try and talk to them about
it, they don't wanna talk about it"
Speaker: Yeah
Speaker 3: And he was like, "I
don't have anyone that is willing
to talk about this in my life."
And I was, you know, and I was just
like, "Well, you do now" Right?
You know, I was so young
in my recovery still.
I mean, I couldn't even go more
than a couple days sober, but I
was in this like excited mind frame
of just like, "We need people.
We need support.
We need friends.
We need, we need brotherhood" And
Speaker: now you're six or six-
Speaker 3: Seven months sober and-
Speaker: Seven, six, seven months sober
⦠Speaker 3: two days, I'll
be seven months sober
Speaker: Six, seven months sober
Speaker 3: Six, seven.
No
What, that's one of the
dumbest things ever ⦠no one,
Speaker 4: no one listens to this
podcast I can't even, I can't even
dignify that with a laugh, dude.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's awesome.
but, you know, we can talk all day long
about you need brotherhood, you need
it, but if anybody wants to take the
question on, why do men feel like they
don't need it or that they don't want it?
Speaker 2: I believe that most men
don't do brotherhood because they
don't know how to do brotherhood.
Speaker: Mm.
Yeah.
I would agree with that.
' Speaker 2: Cause they,
they, because they makeâ¦
What, especially when they get
married, they're like, "Oh, now
my wife becomes everything."
And so maybe they just don't knowâ¦
That's why they do it on
their own, because they don't
know how to do brotherhood-
Speaker: Well, I think that there
could be a ton of reasons why-
Totally ⦠that would be.
Uh- Yeah ⦠one reason I am very
aware of is fatherlessness, and I'll
explain what, wh- why I think that.
I had a conversation
with my uncle one time.
He has his own recovery journey.
He's been sober for over 10 years,
but still struggles to connect with
other men, and that's the , one piece
of his recovery he's still working on.
And, and we were talking one
time, he said, I can't figure out
why it's so difficult for me to
connect and open up to other men.
I don't understand it."
And then immediately after that, he
started talking about his relationship
with my grandpa, his dad, and it just
hit me, like, oh, 'cause he really
struggled in that relationship.
Oh, maybe he has a hard time opening
up and connecting with other men
because the only thing that he's
ever seen modeled was this type of
relationship is shut down and closed off.
We, we don't go there.
And if that's what my relationship
has been with men, then why would I
ever go seek that out in the future?
I'll go get that from a woman we had
that conversation, and then I realized,
"Oh, that's the same reason I don't go."
Like, that wasn't modeled for me.
There's no patterning to follow, and
I think that a lot of us just get
stuck in, like, this, "Once you get
married, it'll get, it'll get fixed.
Once you get married,
you'll feel connected.
Once you get married, you'll feel happy."
It's like, no, not really.
You need to battle and
adventure with other men.
Speaker 3: While you were talking
about all that, it was making
me think just about, so I go to
a weekly men's support group.
It's not specifically for addiction,
but it is, a support group for men.
Speaker: Tell, tell the people what it is-
Speaker 3: Um- ⦠the name of the
Speaker: resource
⦠Speaker 3: it's called
Wild Hearts Support Group.
And they're all along the
Wasatch Front here in Utah.
And you can,
Speaker 2: you can access the website.
It's wildheartsrecovery.com.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Chris has got it.
They're great.
I go to the Orem group.
It's fantastic.
But I go not because I think the
content is this amazing stuff.
I go because, like,
these guys, they get me.
Like, the vibe of it is it's a bunch of
friends getting together to just support
each other, and pray with each other.
Like, but we're laughing,
we're goofing off.
We never start on, start on time
'cause we're all talking, you know.
It's like, it's a good vibe.
But, like- And
Speaker 2: then you guys have
a meeting after the meeting,
so you guys go out to dinner
Speaker 3: after- Right, yeah ⦠or
you get- We get tacos every single
Tuesday, and they're fantastic.
Taco Tuesday, baby.
But, um, they're every Tuesday night, and
so we're recording on a Tuesday night,
and so I miss, that meeting for every
Unashamed Unafraid recording that we do.
And every time, even tonight, I got six
texts from six different guys saying- Holy
⦠"Why aren't you at group tonight?"
And I'm like- Right ⦠"I told you
I wasn't gonna be here 'cause I'm
recording with Unashamed Unafraid."
But, like, it's 'cause
they're my brothers.
Yeah.
And they just are like,
"Hey, what's going on?
Why aren't you here?"
"Just know we're thinking about you.
, You guys listening, can you say that you
have more than two people in your life
that are not directly related to you
that you could reach out to at any time
and say, "I am struggling with X, Y, Z.
Will you pray for me?"
Because of these support groups, I
have 40, 50, 60 people at any time.
Dude, that,
Speaker 2: that's, that's
a key question right there.
"Will you pray for me?"
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Because most men
will never ask that question.
Speaker: I don't even think
I've ever asked that question.
Speaker 2: And, and, like, when
I ask the question, when a, when
somebody comes to my mind and I send
them the text and I'm like, "Hey,
how can I pray for you right now?"
And most men are like, "I've
never been asked that question."
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I'm like, "What?"
Which makes sense, 'cause I
don't think I was asked that
question before boot camp, right?
And so that's why I'm like, I love
that question, to be able to ask that.
Well, you know, when, "Hey,
could you pray for me?
'Cause I'm struggling right now."
And that's so freaking hard to do,
especially when temptation comes in, to
pick up the damn phone and make the call
to a brother when you're in need and
you're in pain and you're just feeling it
and being like, "Hey, I'm feeling, like,
crazy amounts of temptation right now,
and I absolutely, totally wanna act out.
Can you pray with me?"
That is vulnerability.
Speaker 3: When I was, at the beginning of
this, like, journey of my recovery, um, of
this, like, seven-month sobriety, at the
very beginning, I just distinctly remember
I was running, going on a run, and I
was going through the Payson Cemetery,
and I had to pull out my phone and send
a message to this Wild Heart group chat
of all these men and just saying, like,
"Guys, I am struggling so much right now.
Like, I, all I wanna do is relapse.
That is the only thing
my mind wants to do.
That's why I'm on a run."
I said, "Will you please pray for me?"
And immediately, within the first
minute, I got, like, nine different
responses just saying, "I'm on my knees.
I'm praying for you.
I've got your back."
Wow.
Men I don't even know, men I've
never met, but just saying,
like, "This guy needs help.
I'm gonna pray for him.
I'm gonna fight for his heart right now."
That was huge.
Like, I felt those prayers,
but also just to see it,
. Speaker 2: And what's cool is that when
somebody else does that and they reach
out, too, it gives you the opportunity to
be able to be like, "Yeah, you know what?
I'm gonna stop everything I'm doing-
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm
⦠Speaker 2: and I'm gonna
pray for this guy right now."
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And that's a
beautiful experience, man.
And that's where a lot of men are
like, "Well, I don't wanna bother them.
I, you know, I, I, I don'tâ¦
They're probably busy, so
I don't wanna bug anybody."
And that's why having a big group
is really cool, 'cause you can
be like, "Hey, who's available?
Because I'm struggling right now."
And you're reaching out and being
like, "Who ha- who has availability
to call and talk to me right now?"
And you get, like, three guys or two
guys or whatever, and somebody can call
and be like, "Hey, here's my number.
Call me right now."
Or, uh, w- or they'll call you
'cause they have your number.
Whatever it is, right?
And so that's what's really cool
about having that brotherhood, because
they can walk you off that edge.
You can talk about it.
I've talked about it
numerous times in here.
That was a game changer for me,
is being able to, like, call
someone when I was in need.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Instead of calling them
after- 'Cause yeah, that's cool you're
calling after, but no, do it before.
Do it w- you- even if you know
you're gonna act out, be like,
"Hey, I'm just calling to let you
know I'm gonna act out right now."
Speaker 3: Mason and I talked about
this, 'cause he'll call me, you'll call
me and be like, "Hey, I'm struggling.
I need to talk about this."
I'm like, "Dude, I had such
a hard time yesterday."
And he's like, "Why didn't you call me?"
I'm like, "That's a good question."
You're, you're hitting it
right on the nose there, sir.
Speaker: Mason- Mason's like
the glue that holds us together.
I feel like he's always the one
that reaches out to me first, too.
It's
Speaker 3: great.
It's great.
It's 'cause I got
Speaker 4: so many problems, I need to
reach out to you guys like every day.
You know
Speaker 3: what I mean?
But I mean, that's, that's a
good point, though, of like, you
know, support groups are great.
That's awesome, and I'm finding great
help with it, but like, not everybody's,
the support group kinda person.
Like- Right ⦠how do
you get your friends?
Like-
Speaker: Right
⦠Speaker 3: your brother, like,
the people that you interact with
every day, like, you know, like us,
like, how did, how did we start?
Speaker: Well, that's what
I was just gonna go into.
I, in my mind, there's two main ways, and,
uh, shout out to the Unashamed/Unafraid
guidebook that's gonna be published at,
I used to s- say at the end of summer.
I don't know.
Sometime
Speaker 3: it'll be published.
Speaker: I don't know when it's
gonna be published now, guys.
I'm, we're working on it.
It's
Speaker 3: coming.
Speaker: One of the things it
talks about, is there's really two
ways to build community, right?
You can join a community, an existing
community, or you can create a community.
We all met from Warrior Heart, right?
In fa- well, actually, I think
the first time I met you probably
was at Wild Hearts, right?
'Cause I used to go to the
same support group, right?
Speaker 3: I'd, I mean- Was it Warrior
Speaker: Heart?
Speaker 3: You and I have been running
in the same circles for a long time.
Yeah.
But it was Mason.
Mason's the one who got us
together- Oh, that's right.
Yeah ⦠to meet.
Yeah.
To meet at Chick-fil-A.
Yeah.
And we sat down and talked.
Speaker: That was Zupas, wasn't it?
Speaker 3: It was first Chick-fil-A.
Oh.
And then it was Zupas.
Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
And then Zupas again.
Right.
Too many to
Speaker 4: count.
It all get blurred together.
Speaker: Yeah.
We probably need to do that again soon
because it's been a couple months.
But, you don't hear really about anywhere
in the world where dudes just get
together and go eat dinner together.
Like, girls have their girl time,
and they go to dinner, and they,
and then they go home, and they do,
crafts or watch a movie or whatever.
Guys don't do that, right?
Speaker 3: I love the image of
just three dudes eating at Zupas
together- ⦠pouring their hearts
out, 'cause we have done that.
Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think, I think one thing
I want to, highlight too is 'cause
we, what we've talked about is, the
fear of going into brotherhood, but
one thing that I see in a younger cr-
I think that kinda typically is more
older, you know, men that are married,
men that have kids, stuff like that.
One other thing I've seen in a lot
of YSA, guys that I've been around-
Speaker: YSA meaning?
Speaker 4: Young single adults
Young single adults ⦠right,
so from 18 to 30 years old.
A lot of the narrative is like, "I
don't have that bad of a problem."
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 4: Like, they're so new, at least
from what I've seen, so new in recovery,
it's like still in the try harder gospel.
"I don't have that bad of a problem.
I don't need to talk about it.
I don't wanna talk about it.
"I'm doing the steps," or, "I'm
doing this, but, like, I don't need
to be having these heartfelt, deep
conversations, talking about, like,
porn and all this kinda stuff- Right
and my emotions," or, you know,
even that, where it's like, "I'm
having a shitty day at work," right?
Like, "I need to talk about this."
Like, those things I think are frowned
upon, and I think a lot of it is
due to shame, Oh, totally shame.
I've seen that, I've seen that with a
lot of younger dudes where it's like they
don't have the wife or the girlfriend
and so they're not wanting to talk
about it at all they just wanna do
it with bishop or, you know, your
congregational leader or whatever.
Speaker 2: They wannaâ¦
Because they wanna still isolate in it.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So- And where does shame live?
Speaker 4: In isolation.
In isolation.
Right?
So, so how do we overcome that, right?
How, how does that hurdle
for our listeners that are
maybe in, in that, group?
Speaker: Well, I feel like you're
kind of an expert on that, honestly.
Like, you talk about this all the time.
Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing
is I've never really felt like
that, ever since I was in seventh
grade, I've been going to a group,
talking about it with groups of guys.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, even,
yeah, seventh grade.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 4: And so I've never reallyâ¦
Like, when I, when I
first, like, went toâ¦
I went to a group in Provo, It was
a stake-held thing, which is just
a congregation of, LDS members.,
And-
I was amazed by the stuff that
I was hearing, 'cause I was
like, "Man, I've been in the
circles of recovery for so long."
I was like, "You guys don't
wanna talk about this?"
Speaker 2: Hmm.
" Speaker 4: We're just reading the 12
steps and not even talking about, like-
What's going on?"
Like, it kinda blew my mind.
And so- Hmm ⦠I think that's my
question to you guys, is like, what
would you say to those guy- if, if
somebody who's like 18, 20 years old,
and it's like, "You don't have a problem.
Like, I don't, I don't need to
talk about it with anybody."
Why is brotherhood so integral
to stop looking at porn?
'Cause all those guys
all have the same goal,
Speaker 2: right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So my, my biggest thing is, is
to acknowledge where you're at.
First of all, to say, " What
I'm doing isn't working, and
I've been doing it on my own."
Speaker 4: Hmm.
" Speaker 2: So obviously
I need to make a change.
Because if I wanna change, I gotta
do something different," right?
And so if, if they're like, " I don't,
I don't need brotherhood, I don't have
a problem," then why do you wanna stop?
But if, if you know, if you're
acknowledging, "You know what?
I do have a problem."
Hmm.
"And I need to stop, and I wanna stop
because it's affecting my view of women.
Now I've got erectile dysfunction,"
or whatever it i- because we're
seeing that younger and younger
guys now, um, because they're just
numbing themselves so much, right?
Obviously doing it on your own is not
working, so do something different.
I gotta reach out.
Maybe I should try this
brotherhood thing."
Speaker: Yeah, I think the
thing that I would say toâ¦
Well, I'll just say, I'll make this
very personal, and I'll say what I
would say to my younger self between
the ages of 18 to 24- Yeah ⦠is I
would say, "Sam, you don't have any way
of connecting with anyone, you don't
talk to anyone about your feelings.
You don't connect with anyone.
You don't have a system in your life,
that's encouraging you and creating
a community where you are missed.
Like, absolutely not.
Maybe my family, but I was so
dysfunctionally packed into my
family there was not really a,
a sense of safe community there.
And I hadn't found it.
. I can't even tell you the amount of
12-step groups I've tried, i'm not really
a 12-step guy anymore because I just
think there's some weaknesses overall in
the 12 steps that I've seen addressed in,
in other recovery, groups and resources.
But I found a 12-step group that
was so good, and it was after I'd
probably been to, 15, because it just
bouncing around from place to place,
and whenever I moved, I'd find a new
one and, and a new one after that.
So many groups.
And then I went to Warrior Heart,
and it was like this constant effort
I finally wound up at the place where
I'm 27 and, uh, I'm perfectly imperfect
at Brotherhood right now, but I am, I am
leagues above where I was in my early 20s.
'Cause it was like I had to have the,
the courage and the fortitude to just
try group after group after group and
resource after resource after resource
and connect with guy after guy after
guy till I started to find my people.
And recovery's been clicking.
Like, my ability to connect with people,
my ability to open up, my ability to
reach out, it is entirely different.
So I'd say the courage to try different
resources and find brotherhood in
formal or informal groups, gatherings,
that's what's changed it for me.
I wish I could tell that to
18-year-old Sam right now and just
be like, "Dude, stop isolating.
Stop sitting in your room
and trying to make your mom
your accountability partner."
Speaker 2: So- Yeah ⦠Sam, since
you're an expert on groups- um, what,
what's the difference between attending
a group and actually being known?
Speaker: Yeah, that's a great question.
I'm glad youâ¦
I was actually about to s- I was about to,
actually about to s- address that, so- Mr.
Expert over here.
I don't know.
I kinda wanna pawn that one off on Mason.
Speaker 4: This kinda ties into what
I wanted to say, so this is perfect.
I haven't really attended that
many 12-step groups, to be honest.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 4: I've done a little
bit with, like, Sons of Heal Men.
So maybe we can double team it,
and you can build off what I say.
But r- my experience
with Sons of Heal Men,
When you're saying just attend a
group, it felt very checklist-y-
Yeah ⦠if that makes sense.
Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Where it's like,
okay, like, I've gotâ¦
And, and, a- and Sons of Human does
run, it's not exactly 12 steps, but
it does run off of that model of 12
steps, so it's 12 weeks technically.
And so it's very checklist-y of,
like, oh, this week I'm doing
this, I'm reading the book.
Like, I remember reading the
book on the couch with my dad
and just being like, "All, all
right, these are the things I do."
"This is the work," you know?
Like, my, my dad is very much, like,
a to-do list person, and that's
what it felt like it turned into.
A- and being known is much
more like what we have, right?
Like, I can call Sam up every,
any time and be like, or Austin or
Joshua or a number of people, right?
And I can be like, "Yeah, I
feel like I'm a piece of crap.
I've looked at porn three times today,"
or, "Erica's crying, like, this is so
hard for us in our marriage," and I know
I'll get a response of, like, "You're
loved and accepted," which is what I need.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker 4: That's what I need to hear.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker 4: And that's being seen.
Speaker: Right.
Because- And you
Speaker 4: can't
Speaker: get that from your wife.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and-
Speaker: Especially not in that moment.
Speaker 4: For sure, and there's timeâ¦
Yeah, especially, yeah.
It's
Speaker: harder to get it from your
Speaker 4: wife.
Case by case, right?
Yeah.
Case by case basis.
Everybody's different, yep.
Um, but, like, it can be
different from a wife than from
you guys because I know youâ¦
Like, Sam, you and I are so similar.
I know you've been where I've been,
and we've worked so hard to get
to know and teach each other what
brotherhood looks like for each other.
I know you know my heart, and
I know I know yours, and you accept me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: There's safety there.
Speaker 2: So If there's safety and you
guys are still acting out, why are you
not calling each other before you act out?
What is it that's blocking you from
picking up that phone and calling
your brotherhood in that moment?
Sam: For me, it is-
Well, two things.
Number one is cause you
always have a choice, right?
So you can't just- Mm-hmm ⦠blame
it on like, "Oh, I just, you
know, I, I'm not healed enough."
But there is, there is a, a pretty
big, on my part, a pretty big lack of
self-awareness a lot of the time until
I'm suddenly like, boom, I'm like feeling
it and I'm like already slipping over the
edge, Now, you Talk all the time, Chris,
about like, " "Dude," like I decided
in my recovery, like I didn't care.
Like I was gonna make the call.
I was gonna do whatever it took.
Right.
Didn't matter how triggered I was, right?
And so yes, I'm yet to get to that point,
but I'm finding that I'm putting myâ¦
I'm not setting myself up for
success and that's probably the next
step I have to take in Brotherhood
is like, how do I get there?
I don't even know if there's
really a how, it's just a decision.
Speaker 2: It's just you doing it,
Speaker: right?
Yeah.
It's, it's if you wanna make
changes in your life, you gotta
make changes in your life.
And-
Speaker 2: And not, not that it's easy.
No.
I totally get it.
That shit's hard, man.
Speaker: No, I have every excuse.
I'm like, my wife's pregnant, I'm
like dealing with this, I'mâ¦
We just got a new puppy.
I'm, I'm working more than I want to.
Things suck financially.
These are great reasons why I choose- Yeah
not to take certain steps in recovery.
And, at the end of the day, like at some
point you just have to make a decision.
So I, I will be fully
unashamed about that fact.
Sometimes I'm, I, I'm like
afraid to call myself out thatâ¦
I don't think I have any shame
about that right now, though.
I genuinely just haven't made a
choice to make it a consistent thing.
And I, with the caveat that
actually that the last month
I've actually done pretty well.
I've been, I've been connecting
super well, but it hasn't
been a consistent thing.
Speaker 3: With the consistency, it's
like working out where it's like you
just gotta keep on lifting heavy stuff
until your body goes, "Oh my gosh, he's
not gonna stop lifting heavy things.
I gotta start putting on muscle."
Yep.
You know, it's the same way where it's
like you gotta s- keep reaching out
to people until your nervous system's
like, "Yeah, he's not gonna stop."
Mm.
Like, I gotta start making this
a habit and start making this,
like, a regular routine in my
brain and an easier pathway- Yeah
because he's not going to stop.
Speaker: That's a good way to say it.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
I made that up with a little help
from Joe Rogan, so Thank you, Joe.
Shout out to Joe, Joe Rogan.
Cause a lot of men, like, you
know, we're, we were talking about
just a lot of people don't even
know what brotherhood looks like.
We've, you know, we've gotta find our
own tribe, but it's like, I need a
healthy dose of, or mixture of, you
know, very serious, like, we can get
emotional, we can talk, we can put our
hearts out there, we can be vulnerable,
and also just goofy ass conversations.
Just- Mm.
Mm ⦠laughing- Mm
laughing, making jokes about, you
know, we're like a bunch of dudes,
so it's like, you know, making jokes
about farts and butts, and like- Just
like being immature for a little bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, I don't need all the time
where I make a joke about it,
and then the response I get is,
"How does that make you feel?
Let's talk about it."
I'm like, "No, like, I
was just making a joke."
Like, it's true, but it's like, I need
this to be a little bit more lighthearted.
Right.
And so it's like, to find that
mixture, brotherhood- Oh, you
gotta have fun ⦠is dynamic.
Yeah, you need to have fun.
Brotherhood needs to be
dynamic, is like what- Mm
I'm getting at, it can't be
fully immature all the time, but
it also, it can't be fully just
emotional vulnerability, I'm
gonna open my heart to you 24/7.
Yeah.
Like, you're here.
Speaker 4: Just bleed
Speaker 2: on you.
Like- Just bleed.
Yeah.
Like, every bootcamp that we do, like, as,
as the executive team for, for bootcamp,
especially when it's, like, me, Kurt,
and Doug, like, There'll be times some-
somewhere in there when we're traveling,
we will get laughing so hard we're crying
'cause we're laughing so hard, right?
And it'll be something stupid that,
something one of us says or whatever,
and it's just, we just die, and we just
have so much freaking fun, you know?
And so you have to have that brotherhood
that brings that aliveness in you, man.
Speaker 4: Can I add, like, a
little more onto that as well?
Yes.
Yeah.
Speaker: Please.
Speaker 4: We
Speaker: will allow it.
Speaker 4: I think, I
think that- So will I.
⦠the council will allow it.
That- God,
Speaker 2: if
Speaker 4: you put on the
council, not be a master.
What I thought about when you were
saying that is like, that's the type
of brotherhood that Austin needs.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's
Speaker 4: what I- And you've-
Mm ⦠and you've taught us,
and, and you've spokenâ¦
That, that was a year ago now, that we
went to our second boot camp and we talked
about this, and that was kinda new, and
I was like, "Oh yeah, it's kinda true."
And I remember I was at that boot camp
after you told me that, and Sway was
showing me something on his laptop
on how to do something, and he was
like, "Ah, don't look at that folder.
It's got porn in it."
And I startedâ¦
I was, like, kinda freaked out
a little bit, and they started
laughing- ⦠and I was just like, "Oh."
I was like, "Oh, okay."
can joke about it?"
Like, I didn't know that was
something that, I didn't know
that was okay to joke about, right?
So, like, My point is, is you gotta teach
what brotherhood looks like for you.
Mm.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4: Right?
Because I agree that
levity needs to be there.
I think you teach it by living
Speaker 2: it.
Speaker 4: Or even just talking about it.
Sam has just- Yeah ⦠straight up
asked me, "Hey, from that response,
what landed with you and what didn't?"
So I think that's the biggest thing,
is just teaching people how to
do that, , when you talked about,
earlier, about, like, yourself,
what you'd said to yourself when you
were right off a mission and stuff.
For me, I think a big thing was, like,
I had so many experiences of people
being like, "Well, just try this."
Right?
Like, I just remember not being on
my mission because I was struggling
with porn, and I had to get the
policy guidelines of 90 days or
whatever it was, and I remember having
missionary friends out on the mi- on
the mission who were like- Why don't
you just, like not look at porn?
Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, why don't
Speaker 4: you just- Like, like
why don't you just read Scripture?
Like, It was literally like, "Come
on, bro, you gotta get out there.
You gotta get back out on your mission."
Just like, "What can you do?"
You know?
Like all this kinda stuff, and I was
just like, "I, i'm trying, I'm sorry,"
so it was just, it was a lot of shame
around, like, that was the experience
of brotherhood I had at that time.
Brutal.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right?
And so with people that may be having
those types of conversations and that
are scared to start brotherhood again and
talk about this, whatever life situation
you're at, um, I just want you guys to
know, we love you, and we're here for
you, and there's other people that are
struggling just the same way that you are.
Yep, 100%.
You're not alone.
AKA,
Speaker: uh, us.
Speaker 4: And-
Speaker: We are.
Speaker 4: Yes, we are.
Yeah, us.
Today.
Today.
And you can, if you're not wanting to
talk to somebody and you don't have a
safe place, email us, and, 'cause we're
here, and we're, we're going through the
same stuff, and sometimes it's easier
to email somebody rather than talk to
somebody, and you can build up to it, so.
Speaker: Well, to, so Mason, just
to close this up, and I love the
way, I feel like what you said
just puts a beautiful bow on this-
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm
⦠Sam: is, uh, you kinda gotta know what
you need out of brotherhood, I had
no idea what I needed in brotherhood
early on in my recovery, and I had,
I did not have the courage to teach
and expect it from people, right?
Like, for example, I totally
relate to that, like, just
bros give each other advice.
Like, they don't listen to each other.
They just show up and just like, "Bro,
like this is what you do," right?
Just dudes fixing dudes,
and it doesn't work.
It's not helpful, right?
You start to understand
why women get so upset.
You know?
But Now I can be like, "Hey, hold
on, hold on, . What, what I need
right now is actually not advice.
What I need right now is for you
to just, maybe can you just listen
for like two or three more minutes
and ask me a few more questions?
' Right?
Like, I didn't know how to
say that to my dad- Yeah
or my friends, and the best way to do
it is before a conversation, or you can
like, once you get, start to get deep with
a f- friend, you can, y- you can start
to be like, "Hey, like, these are some
of the things that I need in my life.
I need more adventure.
I need more, I need more laughter," right?
Yeah.
"Let, let's go do stuff together
to, to meet these needs."
Never would've done that early on in
recovery, and it actually does take
some courage because you have to believe
that you are worth, standing up for.
You have to believe that you
are worthy of asking for things.
Speaker 3: For anybody that's
listening it's different for everybody.
So what is it for you?
What are you needing out of brotherhood
for you to find a safe place for recovery?
Speaker 4: Also, if you're
wanting to have some brotherhood,
there may or may not be like an
Unashamed, Unafraid meetup sometime.
Maybe.
Speaker: There will be.
Yeah?
I'll be announcing that on the-
Yep ⦠Unashamed, Unafraid-
Okay ⦠Instagram very soon.
Speaker 4: All right, well, you
can cut this out if you need.
No,
Speaker: you're good.
Surprise.
No, it's fine.
Follow our Instagram, by
the way, and, meet us.
I'll be sending an email out,
so you better subscribe to us so
that you can get those emails.
But yeah, we're gonna be doing
an Unashamed, Unafraid meetup
to have some brotherhood.
I don't know, a, a park somewhere
in Salt Lake City, Sandy, Salt
Lake County area, just to meet good
dudes who are also in recovery.
Wanna figure out if there's actually
a face behind the voice that
speaks on the podcast, you know?
Yep.
We do exist.
Um- We are
Speaker 2: not AI.
Speaker: So last thing I'll say on
this, and this is from the Unashamed
and Unafraid guidebook, which is written
by people much smarter than I am.
The strength of your recovery
is directly correlated to the
strength of your community.
Your community is the number one resource.
That if you can get in your recovery,
correlates to your ability to
heal, get sober, recover over time.
It's the community,
Thanks for watching.
You can find us on social
media at Unashamedunafraid.
Get access to our bonus content, become
an outsider on unashamedunafraid.com.
Subscribe to our YouTube channel,
and if this was helpful to you, it'll
probably be helpful to someone else.
So take some time right now
and share it with a friend.
Thanks again for watching, and until
next time, continue to live unashamed.