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Away We Go We Go follows the journey of Sophie & Jordan Epton, an American couple who moved to France with their 10-month old twins, and the crazy adventure that follows. We dive deep into what it's really like moving and living abroad as expats, interview others who have taken the road less traveled, provide travel tips, discuss how you can do hard things to change your own life, and everything in between.
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Sophie: [00:00:00] Jordan went back to the States last week for a work conference, and almost immediately everything here in France started to fall apart. And when I say everything, I mean everything. It was absolutely not funny in the moment, like not even a little bit, but now that we're on the other side of it, maybe we can record this podcast and laugh about it.
Sophie: Mostly kind of. But what I really thought was interesting about this week, it wasn't just that it, you know, felt chaotic, it also felt emotional in a way that I wasn't really expecting because while he was back in the US and I was here, I felt like when we were talking with each other on the phone and relaying what was going on, it really highlighted something that we don't talk about enough when you move countries.
Sophie: And that is the fact that your heart doesn't just pack up and move with you. For us, you know, we don't [00:01:00] wake up and say, okay, we live in France now and we're fully French and I miss nothing about America. And then when you're back in the States, we don't suddenly stop missing the life that we have been building here over the last two and a half years.
Sophie: Either. It just, there's something to it that your heart is just split always. So today we're going to recap the week where everything fell apart. Share some funny stories now that a little bit of time has passed and really dig into this idea that it is okay for your heart To live in two places at once.
Sophie: Loving where you live doesn't mean that you don't miss where you came from. And missing one place doesn't mean that you made a mistake choosing another. If you've ever lived abroad, moved far away from home, or felt homesick, no matter where you are, then this one's for you.
Sophie: [00:02:00] Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Away We Go. We Go podcast. We are here. We are barely standing after the last week that we've had, but we're surviving and that's what matters.
Sophie: How you doing?
Jordan: I mean, the fact that I'm like sitting upright right now I think says that this is my a hundred percent version of what I have right now.
Sophie: Jordan is, he just got back yesterday,
Jordan: jet lagged,
Sophie: very
Jordan: jet lagged. Um, I'm exhausted and I am like surprisingly springy. Like [00:03:00] to, to do this with you because this is, I always look forward to this.
Jordan: This is always a fun thing, but still working on fumes right now. But
Sophie: I know, I feel the same way. I feel the same way nine days with the kids. You know, I'm surprised I'm standing upright too. But we wanted to talk about so many things today, but first I thought it would be good because we're having a lot of new listeners, which is great.
Sophie: Come on. And so if this is your first time listening to us, just wanna give like a really quick recap of who we are. So we are two Americans who moved with our 10 month old twins back in July of 2023. So we've been in France for almost
Jordan: a little over two and a half years
Sophie: at this point a half years. And we really love to talk about.
Sophie: The real of living here, right? Because it's beautiful and romantic living in France, but it's also, it's a lot of real life. And so that is, we want to pull the curtain down of what [00:04:00] I think people think it is versus what, I mean, there's so much beauty, of course, but there's a lot of reality too.
Sophie: And so I think when people say they want to move to a different country, we want them to also know, these are kind of the things to expect, right?
Jordan: And you know, I've been having this conversation a lot lately. You know, when you're traveling somewhere for vacation, you're going to visit and you get hit with an inconvenience.
Jordan: You're like, eh, that's, that's a bummer. I really wanted to go to that museum or do this thing. But you can pivot,
Sophie: right?
Jordan: You know? And when you're like living there and you're up under the hood, the perspective is very different. And so some of the things that are romantic, you realize. Are still romantic, but the frequency with which you can hit those back to back to back, like you can when you're on vacation is spaced out.
Jordan: And so that is, I think, what kind of changes that element a bit.
Sophie: Absolutely. So I mean, you know, we love it here, but there are definitely moments where you feel untethered. And so [00:05:00] we just, you know, our biggest thing is to be able to have our listeners understand that no life is perfect. We all do the best we can every day.
Sophie: We make decisions that are the best for our families and what we're doing and it's okay to, feel all sorts of feelings. And that's really what this episode is all about today. So, shall we get into the insanity? Let's of last week.
Jordan: Let's, let's dive in also for the new listeners. I have awful language.
Jordan: I curse a lot. So welcome to the show.
Sophie: Buckle up. Jordan, we've known about this for a long time. Every year he goes in for this sales conference summit. It's a huge part of his work, and it's a week, I'm not gonna lie, that I personally dread every year when he comes around knowing just it's just a lot.
Sophie: And so he officially left last Saturday and today's Monday, so yeah, it's been 10 days since you left, which is mm-hmm. Crazy. We thought we had everything together, like [00:06:00] kids were feeling good. My mom was supposed to come and help for the week, so I wouldn't be by myself completely.
Sophie: We were just on you just getting out there and,
Jordan: and
Sophie: getting back. And it would be hard. But like we, you know, we'd do it.
Jordan: I did a ton of shopping beforehand so that Sophie would have to do like, minimal outings because listen, you kind of get this when you're the levy. You're like, don't leave me fucking stranded man
Jordan: and make me do all this stuff.
Jordan: And when you're the lever, you don't have to think about that as much 'cause you're not gonna be there. You kinda like, even though this is my person, this is my family. Once I'm like out the door, I'm thinking about where I'm going. And you that stuff is behind me and they'll figure it out.
Jordan: I wanna make sure that Sophie's set up to have as little stress as possible. So the fact that we had lined up her mom, she was stocked up with stuff. We did all the laundry, like we were good to go for the week.
Sophie: House was cleaned. Yeah. All the things first red
Jordan: [00:07:00] flag.
Sophie: Yeah. So, well the first red flag, so as Jordan is about to leave, of course a huge winter storm.
Sophie: It starts to brew the week before. And we were like, oh, no. And not here, but where I was going. Not here. Yeah. Where he was going. So, um, my destination, I mean, it took over like half of the United States last week with all, I mean, true
Jordan: story,
Sophie: all kinds of things. If you're in the States, you know, but essentially for the first thing you had to do was completely like, rebook all your tickets.
Yeah.
Jordan: So let me give like the real quick rundown here, right? So I'm flying from France, the south of France, which is not super direct.
Sophie: It's not
Jordan: I decided I'm going to train it up to Paris and go Paris to Dallas, to Austin where I was headed. And when this storm came in. There was like ice and snow hitting Texas, so I knew oh, this is gonna be fucked. Like this is not gonna be easy to get to Austin.
Jordan: I have friends who are in London also going, they were headed out a day or two earlier than I was, and their [00:08:00] flights already started getting impacted. So I right beforehand was like, okay, this isn't gonna work. If miraculously this
Jordan: Flight from Paris actually takes off to go to Dallas, which I thought was like very low chance.
Jordan: I would absolutely be stuck in Dallas 'cause there's no way to get from Dallas to Austin if there's ice. 'cause there's no infrastructure in Texas to deal with icy roads. I'm from Chicago. They have, caves upon caves of road salt and the machinery
Sophie: clean it and yeah,
Jordan: They just don't have that for icy roads in Texas.
Jordan: So you're just stuck waiting it out. And so I was like, I don't wanna be in, stuck in Dallas where it's cold. And then we don't know about the power grid 'cause that's gone off in the past. So I rerouted, went to Miami. My trip there actually was kind of chill. Trained it up to Paris, spent the night, hopped on a plane the next morning, flew to Miami, spent the night.
Jordan: Got up and the next morning flew to Austin. It was pretty easy peasy. Took my time. I was cruising. I didn't have [00:09:00] young toddler twins with me, so travel was pretty easy and I bragged about it all week, which that karma came back and kicked me in the throat.
Sophie: Yeah, so essentially, where shall I start Sunday.
Sophie: So Sunday my mom arrives at the house and you know, we're kind of like ready to go. She seems like she's a little stuffed up, but I'm like, at this point, kids are gonna school like a little tiny, like head cold, whatever. Like we're just gonna deal with it because you know, it is what it is. I need your help.
Sophie: So she, you know, we took the kids to Kava, like our favorite little brunch spot. Brunch spot, and you know, got ready for bed that night. Didn't think too much of it. Her and I both woke up at 6:00 AM. Kinda early on Monday morning and she has this horrible wet cough and I [00:10:00] turned to her and I said, lady,
Jordan: yeah, gotta go
Sophie: GTFO.
Sophie: Like, hey,
Jordan: love you. But yeah,
Sophie: gotta
Jordan: go,
Sophie: Hey, this sounds miserable and there's no way you're gonna wanna be like hanging out at this house with these kids. And second of all, yeah, like we don't wanna catch whatever this is. This is like went from like zero to a hundred overnight. So I lost her literally less than 24 hours.
Sophie: Day one. I mean, I feel so bad. I know she's been like fighting it all week. She ended up having like a pulmonary infection that she had to get antibiotics for the whole thing, yada yada. But she wanna
Jordan: do with the twins all week
Sophie: and she's
Jordan: super bummed and it
Sophie: sucks. Yeah. So it was just, I mean, we couldn't believe it was like such a bummer.
Sophie: And so I was like, okay, I have the kids all week by myself. I'm doing. Four hours. Yes, yes. Folks. Four hours of drop off and pickup, which is two hours there and two hours back. That is kind of the reality we're dealing with right now with this international school. And
Jordan: it's not that it's two hours away.
Sophie: No, it's traffic.
Sophie: Traffic is horrible.
Jordan: We're actually very close to,
Sophie: yeah, we're very, it's wild
Jordan: living in the city center and getting out of it during peak hours [00:11:00] not great.
Sophie: Yeah. So then the other thing that happened on Monday morning on top of everything else was when I woke up, I felt like my eye was kind of feeling weird and I'm like, oh no.
Sophie: And I go to look at it and it looks really red and it's not like I have a true pink eye, but something's going on and like I don't wanna mess around with it. So I immediately book a doctor's visit for Tuesday. So get through Monday. It's a big long day. Go to the doctor on Tuesday. He's like, you definitely caught something from your kids that
Jordan: like conjunctivitis or something like
Sophie: that.
Sophie: Well, yeah, it was, it was something, he's called it a viral pink eye. And so I had to, you know, get on antibiotics for the eye and I was like, okay. Like, could be worse. Not great, but could be worse also, like the one thing I will say, talk about like lost in translation again, when I go to the doctor's office, there's a lot of words now that I know because [00:12:00] the last two years I've been sick for the same things over and over again.
Sophie: But there's certain things that I don't know. And so what I like to do is, if we're just talking back and forth, I can speak French and it's fine, but if I'm talking about very specific things with like my medical history, I like to actually write it down on Google Translate. I know you're laughing at me, but No, I like to.
Sophie: I like to write down Google. Absolutely do the same thing. Google translate and then I bring it to them because they also appreciate it too. Because instead of me trying to like fumble through my words, I'm just like, here's what's going on. Prepping up,
Jordan: here's the deal.
Sophie: Yeah. And so I specifically asked, I don't know what the fuck is up with the way that the eye drops are here.
Sophie: 'cause it's not the first time I've had some viral infection in my eye. But they have oil.
Sophie: Which I know, which I know sounds crazy because I'm like, but this is like a thing you guys. Okay. So I've used these oil based drops a couple times.
Sophie: You put them in your eye,
Sophie: You cannot see for like hours and hours. Like I don't know if I'm sensitive, whatever it is. And so I specifically asked my doctor, I was like, by the way, like if you gimme a prescription for eye drops, like [00:13:00] I cannot have the ones that are oil based. I have to have water based because like they make my eyes super blurry.
Sophie: He still ends up writing me a prescription. I'm like, is it just that? Like they're like, I don't know what the hell happened. But, so I couldn't even use the drops, at specific times during the day. I use them at night or like in the middle of the day when the kids were at school
Jordan: and you had like hours before
Sophie: you had to go get back in the car.
Sophie: Yeah. Hours before. And then I was like trying to like look at my computer screen. It was a whole to-do. But anyways, so that's another thing. I don't get it the way that certain French medicine is. It's still a thing. , But anyways, so we get through Tuesday, we're plugging along, get up Wednesday, and I think okay, today's gonna feel a little easier because on Wednesdays I get to go pick the kids up, later in the day when most kids are already off school.
Sophie: The drive is so much nicer and I can leave later, which is great. Well, I start making the kids breakfast and Luca tells me, mommy, [00:14:00] my tummy's hurting. And I'm like, oh,
Jordan: now they're, they're like three and a half. So they say this all the time.
Sophie: No, this was for real
Jordan: though. But like, you know, you always hear that and you're just like, are you just kinda saying that because you want to get attention or whatever you want?
Jordan: Or is this, because sometimes rarely, but sometimes it's legit. Sometimes you know, they gotta go to the bathroom or whatever, but you know, you hear that and you're just like, please just be one of those things where you're like just needing like a hug right now.
Sophie: Yeah. Well for me, because my husband is gone.
Jordan: What a jerk.
Sophie: Uh, those are like the four worst words I think I could possibly hear coming out of either of my kids' mouth, because I don't know about you, but I have like a serious tu phobia. I got the tu phobia ttu throw up.
Jordan: Oh.
Sophie: And sometimes I'm like, I don't know why became a mother because I like have , whatever it's called.
Sophie: It's like it starts with an e, whatever phobia it is. I have it. I hate everything about it.
Jordan: I don't [00:15:00] get excited about it. Let's be clear.
Sophie: No, I know.
Sophie: But there's been stuff going on at Sway anyways. I'm not gonna get too much into this because who wants to hear about this? But essentially thank I don't God. It went south, not north. 'cause I can handle that way better. But let's just say that we were
Jordan: rough couple days
Sophie: down and out at home for two days dealing with that.
Sophie: So I was like perfect. This is just, you know, couldn't have planned it better. I have pink eye, I'm dealing with his gastro stuff
Jordan: and
Sophie: he's outta town. My mom's not here.
Jordan: And Wednesday happened to be my birthday.
Sophie: Oh yeah. Less we forget. And I barely feel like I got to celebrate you because, and
Jordan: Sophie's a big birthday.
Jordan: Celebrator. Yes I am. It's a big deal for her. And so being able to celebrate me is very fun. So she was like super disappointed and I think there's been like a handful of my birthdays that have been not great for you due to sickness or something like that. Know which is another reason why Sophie is not a huge fan of.
Jordan: My January birthday and all the other ones. 'cause she's like, this is a shit time, man.
Sophie: You know, I hate to tell you [00:16:00] this, but it's just, I mean, I love your birthday and I love a Aquarius good birthday, but it's just, you know, and Capricorns for that matter, it's still a good birthday, but yeah. It's, it's rough.
Sophie: And I wanna mention too, that I had to do pickup both days where it was pouring rain. And if, you know, you know, like, especially with the school that they're going to, it's like a huge walkway between the parking lot and the school. So just, it just was like every day there was something,
Jordan: it was, it was like very much like a comedy of errors.
Jordan: Mm-hmm. All throughout the week. Mm-hmm. And she's texting me, I'm seven hours behind and , I'm in for a conference. So Wednesday, Thursday. I am like from 7:30 AM until evening, it's nonstop. And I get these little breaks or I'm like able to like text with her. I can't really call that much.
Jordan: And I'm just getting these like updates that are just like, oh no. And then the next update later, it's like, oh no. Oh God. And it just keeps on piling like that. And meanwhile, [00:17:00] I'm going in and I'm working hard, but like I'm seeing a bunch of friends, I have known these people for, six plus years.
Jordan: We're hanging out, we're having a good time, we're going out at night, we're having like team dinners and celebrating. And I like, I feel awful because I have to be engaged. It's important.
Sophie: You should feel so awful.
Jordan: But all also, I'm sitting there like I'm powerless.
Jordan: I can't do anything. Every day I'm sitting there like, oh God, you're having such a shit day. And I can do nothing. To help you. I'm like, do you want me to ping a couple people? You want me to send somebody over to you? And it's just there's not a lot to do. It's just, it's kinda rough.
Jordan: Everybody's had weeks like that where you've had this waterfall of shit storms happening. This one just happened to be a time where I was gone and all these things were happening and it's just a lot, you know, it's nothing that she hasn't handled in the past, but it was, an interesting week.
Sophie: And then, so to [00:18:00] top it all off, I went to go charge our card, our garage and the garage door is broken. So with the
Jordan: gate
Sophie: to get into the, we were like running on fumes, like on, on the car to pick you up. But I think the worst part,
Sophie: On Saturday when you were supposed to come home, I will let you take over as to exactly what happened.
Jordan: Yeah, so like I said, I had pretty chill travel on the way there, and I clearly bragged about it way too fucking much because my travel back, I think this is the thing when you move abroad and you overcome some obstacles and some challenges and you get to that place where you're like, Hey, I've figured some things out.
Jordan: I've learned how to navigate unfamiliar systems, and I've learned how to prepare myself a little bit and
Jordan: after having spent some time and you feel like you're pretty comfortable with certain things, you forget and think maybe you're [00:19:00] like a little bit immune to problems happening and Yeah, boy was definitely in that mindset because I flew back, my original flight from Austin to Dallas back to Paris was on.
Jordan: And then I had the train scheduled to come back down to X and made my flight to Dallas even though one flight got delayed. So I had to switch it to a different one because there was like 27 minutes in between my connection on an international flight and a different terminal. Not gonna happen, switched the flight, got there, made it to Dallas, and then I actually get on the plane, sit down, I watched probably 45 minutes of a movie and realized like, we're still at the gate, the fuck is going on. And then they get on to let us know their collision detection system was having issues and they had maintenance crews working on it and engineers working on it.
Jordan: They end up deplaning us and move us to a different gate. This plane was supposed to take off at 5:00 PM I must have gotten on the plane around four 15 to board.[00:20:00]
Jordan: We were standing at this next gate where they continued to push back the new one. Constantly until like little after midnight. And it was just one of those, they kept stringing us along. Hey, this one has a printer issue. We're like, what the fuck is a printer issue on a plane? And why do we need to fix out?
Jordan: And then it took so long that the crew left. The crew that was supposed to fly was just like, too long. We're fucking outta here. And I'm like, you can just do that. And so then they had to get new pilots, a new crew. Obviously that wasn't gonna happen at like 11:00 PM um, when the weather was still like kind of cold and shitty.
Jordan: So we're just sitting there. They eventually, they cancel it, they move it to the next day. They give us hotel vouchers and meal vouchers, and we all get the fuck out of there and show back up the next day. And they pushed it again. Finally, I was able to get on the flight, got in at 6:00 AM yesterday, and then had to wait until a little bit later to get on the train.
Jordan: It was just a very long, [00:21:00] long, long
Sophie: term. It was quite the way to end the trip. And you called me on Saturday and you were so,
Jordan: I was pretty defeated,
Sophie: defeated. I mean, and I was too, it was just after that week, it's like, all I wanted was just to like, have time with you and
Jordan: Right. And I wanted to relieve you.
Jordan: I felt so bad because I'm sitting there like being the one who's gotta go and share this bad news, don't shoot the messenger, but this is Sophie we're talking about she's gonna murder me. She's like, are you ca you're leaving me here alone? Another day? I
Sophie: not say that.
Jordan: No, no, no, no. This is what's in my head.
Jordan: I'm like, I'm terrified to tell you because I imagine you saying, I've been here a week with the kids and now you're telling me one more day on top of all this.
Sophie: Well, I might have thought that, I might have thought like, you are gonna have your name put on a tombstone in a couple days. But I knew that you needed to hear good stuff for me.
Sophie: So I was like, everything's cool. I mean, obviously it sucks, but like shit happens. What can you do? Like we're gonna figure it out.
Jordan: You're super chill about it. You're like, Hey man, this isn't in your control. Like you'll get [00:22:00] back when you get back. Just get back safely. That definitely made me feel better, so I appreciate that.
Sophie: Yeah. But all that to say, after this insane week, honestly I'm really proud that we survived it. I'm really proud, of like just it showed, it certainly showed me what I was capable of, and I do believe that it's like the universe sometimes tests you to see what you're capable of and what you can kind of rise to the occasion to.
Sophie: So yeah, it was just one of those weeks, but, but the thing that we really wanted to touch on today is that. You know, even when Jordan would call me in the couple minutes, we could talk like a couple times a day with your crazy schedule. I think we just were really reflecting a lot because of what was happening to me and what you were experiencing back in the US of just , your heart can really belong.
Sophie: And it does really live in two places when you move abroad. And of course for us America is our home. We are Americans and France is the country that we have chosen to live in the last [00:23:00] two and a half years. But I think no matter where you come from and where you're going, I think it's just nearly impossible to not feel a lot of love and pride for both.
Sophie: But it's very interesting 'cause I think you'd never feel a hundred percent in either place, if that makes sense.
Jordan: Yeah, there's certain things where I'm like, you know, I've spent. The better part, like damn near 40 years in the us. So there are just things that are beyond internalized.
Jordan: They are my system for living. That's what I know. I did a stint in Argentina for, almost a year and a half, 20 years ago. But from the us like that's where I've lived my life. So the things that are part of my world there, part of my process, part of my thinking, we travel, we're open-minded to different things, but we still, live within our environment.
Jordan: So that's what we know,
Sophie: we're programmed that way. It's everything that we grew up with and yeah, I think the idea that you might feel a little homesick no matter where you [00:24:00] are. I think that's something that isn't talked about enough, certainly within the community of immigrants is just that.
Sophie: You always don't quite feel 100% at home. And maybe I'm wrong for certain people, I think if you've been in a country long enough, you probably feel more, especially if you have extreme pride for, the country that you've moved to and you've been there for 10, 20 years and all of these things.
Sophie: But I don't know. I feel like from what I've certainly experienced and what I hear from a lot of people who've done something similar is I don't think you ever arrive at a place feeling like you're a hundred percent settled and you don't ever really stop. Like being from where you came from.
Jordan: No.
Jordan: It's like, you know, when, when you're an adult and you have to establish a new process
Sophie: mm-hmm.
Jordan: Or a new system or a new normal, a new habit, it's, I mean, it's damn near impossible to not say, well this is how I normally do this kind of thing, [00:25:00] but that doesn't really work here, but I'm gonna try to figure out how to do it here.
Jordan: Because that's what I know. Yeah. Even though it's a very different culture, a different approach. And so that's where you start to like blend your
Sophie: Yeah. What, you know,
Jordan: versus formal existence. And you're now, you, and it's, it's a weird thing because you're like, I want to integrate with where I'm at, but also I'm not used to this and I don't know how I, I can be like consistent with this new thinking, this new process, this new system.
Jordan: Like it's an adjustment that some things are really quick and really easy to do that. And then some other things take a really long time.
Sophie: I think eventually, from what I've heard from people who have lived in a country that is not their home country for, decades upon decades, is that there's just certain things that you just have to throw up your hands and be like.
Sophie: I live in this culture, it's how they do it and like I'm kind of giving up like this is how it is. Because otherwise I think you [00:26:00] would drive yourself crazy
Jordan: otherwise, I mean, and this,
Sophie: otherwise,
Jordan: this comes from like us, like wrestling with ourselves with certain things.
Jordan: Where there are certain things that again, were really easy for us to be like so happy that this is like I get to do things like this now. And then there were other things where like even when we wanted to shift perspective a little bit, it just doesn't operate like that. The same like I think a big one, honestly, we're in the south of France.
Jordan: I think it's very like for, for people who are familiar with Provence in the south of France and some of the let's call it ideology for lack of better thinking. It's very slow. It's very like, especially for people who retire here, it's, it's much more like slow moving. You can kind of sink in.
Jordan: You can take your time. You can sit at lunch for a couple hours, no rush. You can, you're not bothered by certain things being opened or closed [00:27:00] because I'll just do it tomorrow. And that was a struggle for us because we have three and a half year old fucking toddlers now. They've we're 10 months old when we moved here.
Jordan: So in that whole span, they're just times where like, we need to get shit done. We need to find stuff now. Yeah. This is closed. And so for us that was a big one and continues to be a big one where like we can adjust, we can, we've learned to plan ahead for certain things. We know when things close so we can anticipate a little bit. But the mindset of like, oh fuck me, these things are closing again. Oh, it's Wednesday, they close midday.
Jordan: You guys fucking kidding me right now, dude. I just need to get through my day and go and, hit up this shop later in the afternoon. Why? Why are you closing in the afternoon on Wednesday? For fuck's sake. And it's also this is when school is out on Wednesdays, so people are home. Why are you closing when people are home?
Jordan: Maybe 'cause you have kids and okay, that makes sense, but not for me. Ah, fuck. Like that mindset, like that happens all the time [00:28:00] where I just have not been able to fully internalize that because that's just not what I need and what I know. So that's, that's an example of one that it's been kind of a funny one.
Sophie: Yeah, I think, I think especially, it was so interesting when I was talking with you on the phone and you know, 'cause it's like, it's been a bit since we've, here's the other thing that's really interesting. While all these things were happening to me and we were like, you know, in touch all week, and I was just talking to you about your experience that you were having because what I do wanna say is we have gone to California several times in the last two years, but California definitely feels.
Sophie: Like it's on its own in a lot of ways from the rest of the states. Like, because it's
Jordan: a lot of like French's, Italian,
Sophie: I would just say European. European, yeah. I mean, it's just, obviously it's so, so it's, so what I will say is like, I haven't been back to Austin since we left, and so I feel like that's very, like, very America.
Sophie: And so I think when, you know, I just kind of talked to you about like, you know, what are you missing or what's [00:29:00] going on and all these things. And so it's, it's really interesting to just like get your, get your ta take on it. But I think the things that really, like when we say that our hearts are in two places, I mean, like, the first thing I remember when I said, you know, when you land, I was like, what do you wanna do?
Sophie: And you're like, I wanna get a taco and a mar margarita. Oh my god. And I'm like, yes.
Jordan: I mean, we can get margaritas here, but we're talking like, you know,
Sophie: the good, good.
Jordan: Like, they make Mexican margaritas, they're in Austin and, and just tacos, tacos galore. I mean, listen, I'll die on this hill. Hands down the best vehicle for food that exists, period.
Sophie: It's pretty.
Jordan: Fight me on it. Don't care.
Sophie: It's pretty amazing. Yeah. Pretty faultless. Um, so I think there's just, I think when you have grown up in a place like American, even though obviously like there's so much about the food, we know that's garbage. But the thing that is so great is because it is such a huge melting pot across like the entire US is that you know this, if you're from [00:30:00] America, like there's so many things you can get that are at your fingertips.
Sophie: And it's so hard, especially with like interior Mexican food. Like we have to go up to Paris to get something that's like pretty good,
Jordan: remotely similar,
Sophie: but it's just still,
Jordan: it's not the same. I mean, we spent 15 years in Austin, right? Yeah. Like it was everywhere all the time. And I love Mexican food so much, and yeah, I miss it.
Jordan: I do now we've, you know, we've transitioned other things. I mean, I have access to. The greatest pastries that exist ever.
Sophie: Mm-hmm.
Jordan: And trust me when I tell you that your boy takes advantage of that shit every day.
Sophie: I think if anyone has really listened over the last year, they're well aware of that.
Jordan: Yeah.
Jordan: I sleep on croissants.
Sophie: Yeah. But so, I mean, so I think, I think that's something that sometimes we're just like, oh, like it would just be so nice to like, go to a grocery store and like just have like, I mean, 'cause of course when you go to the huge car fours, but the whole point is you still have to like, get in a car and do the whole thing.
Sophie: [00:31:00] And it's, it's very similar in that way to the states. It's like, but if you wanted to like go somewhere in town, you can't access it the same way if you wanna walk places, it's just different and Yeah. And there's still things you cannot find here, even in the big store. You know, I think we all, just kind of have a little, a little moment with that.
Sophie: Mm-hmm. So I definitely was, I was feeling very jealous of you with your tacos and margaritas, but, um, the other thing that I think is like really funny, and I feel like you have such a good story about this, is just like the conveniences we know. I mean, so first of all, when you got there, I was already like immediately doing Amazon and other things that were getting delivered to you within like the same day.
Sophie: And we forget about that. You know, I was talking with a girlfriend and she, I mean, she wanted to know a little bit more about like the real of what it's like to move. And I said, well, if you have a kid and you have a full-time job, just know it's going to be harder because when you are in the States, you are ordering everything to your house.
Sophie: Like we did the same thing. [00:32:00] And while there's such a beautiful thing about being in France and like having to step outside your door to get everything, you're getting a feel for the beautiful place you're in. You're getting to see people and say hello and, and create these little rituals. The convenience is not there.
Sophie: You know, and just, and also just the things that are like available.
Sophie: 'cause of course, like when everything was going down, even with Luca this last week, I was thinking to myself, like, if I was in the states, like, first of all, like we used to have a, like a,
Jordan: concierge
Sophie: pediatrician, a concierge pediatrician, which makes us sound like the biggest assholes on the planet, but like, it was actually really inexpensive.
Sophie: Um,
Jordan: that's awesome. They come to the house.
Sophie: Yeah, they come to the house. So it's like just to have someone treat him or like, you know, like if I feel like I'm, I mean I've gotten so run down so many times this winter and last winter, and I'm like, when I was living in the States, like I would go and just get like, it be 12 shot or you can have someone come to you and give you like a vitamin iv.
Sophie: and while I think those things exist on a level, especially if you're in Paris, you can get like everything that you need in a [00:33:00] lot of ways. I think that, being here, it's just different. It's just, it's, they're just not gonna have it the same way or you're gonna have to like go out and get it, or they, it may not exist in the same way.
Sophie: So it's just things like that. But what I thought was so funny, you have to tell this story. So when it comes to customer service, which we greatly miss about the us. So it's like to be somewhere where you, I think just the idea of in America that you're held a lot more accountable in service for things.
Jordan: I think customer service is incentivized.
Sophie: Yeah, very much so. Of course it's of course it's, but I mean, but it's just funny because I will say being here makes us so much more appreciative when we go back.
Sophie: Even when it's like, maybe to some Americans it's like subpar for us. We're like, oh, this is the best.
Jordan: You talking about the flight?
Sophie: Yes. Talk about this.
Jordan: Yeah. So real quick. So when the flight got canceled in Dallas, coming back here before it got canceled, when it like kept moving, they deplaned us and then they kept pushing it [00:34:00] back and there was like a big group of people standing at the counter and talking to.
Jordan: All the people trying, helping. And there was like six people up there like hammering around computers, trying to make accommodations, trying to figure stuff out. This is like long before they canceled it, they're trying to find crews. And I could just hear people like yelling, like, what am I supposed to do?
Jordan: And this guy's like, Hey, we're just sharing information as we get it. We're working on this. And that. When the crew left and they had to find a new crew, they were like, we're, we put out alerts for like double pay for pilots and for the flight crews. Like, we're desperately trying to get people here to fill the spot.
Jordan: We have all these alerts out, we're working on it. They were telling us that the printer broke and it was just really funny 'cause sometimes I wanna get into it, but sometimes I'm just like, like this is totally not worth it. And there was like a couple people like printer, like, what do you even need a printer for?
Jordan: Why is this? But, and they were just like getting all up in arms about it. And then some people were like yelling at the staff and I'm sitting there laughing like, what are you yelling at them for? You know [00:35:00] that they have nothing to do with it. Yeah. But they were trying so hard to solve this and like every response from them was very much totally understand your frustration.
Jordan: We know it's been a long day. We know this is very much not ideal. We promise you that we're working on it as hard as we can in France. If that shit happens, the response is, no, doesn't work. It's not possible. We cannot take off.
Sophie: Yeah.
Jordan: Papa C it's like, okay, can you get another fight? No, it's not possible. We can, we don't have extra palliative for that's, no, we don't do that.
Jordan: You're just like,
Sophie: yeah,
Jordan: find some solution. It's like, no, there will be a flight tomorrow.
Sophie: It is like if you want something to happen, like we've talked about this, I've talked about this other guests, like, you have to fight for it. You have to like throw down.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Sophie: To like get them to like move. And so it's just, it's, that's something, and I think that's pretty well documented with a lot of the immigrant community, but it feels so, it just, it does When you come back and you feel like people are like, even if they're, it is just because they're being paid.
Sophie: Who cares? Like they're smiling, they're being friendly. They're gonna try to help you as much as they possibly can in most instances. [00:36:00] If not, then you're gonna escalate it to a manager if you need something done like it's gonna get done. Yeah. So it just, yeah, that's something that we, our hearts are still very much in that, in that point.
Sophie: But the other thing I think too, that isn't really talked about enough is that just the ease of communication. When you think about how it's so different from your life, you know, in a new country, it's like, obviously, you know, if you're getting fluent in the language and you're, you know, meeting a lot of people and you're assimilating like amazing, like that is the best.
Sophie: But for anyone who's done that, 'cause you know, Jordan, you did that many years ago in Argentina, it's like there's still, the process to get to that is kind of hellish.
Jordan: It's grueling. I mean, it takes a ton of work. And so, you, you have to constantly get over yourself. You have to cons, you're constantly being humbled.
Jordan: You're fighting off like embarrassment. Like I,
Sophie: every day
Jordan: I make mistakes all the [00:37:00] time. I misunderstand things all the time. And again, like I'm, I don't get actually embarrassed by it anymore, but there's just still some times where I'm like. I've talked about little run-ins in the past from Mike. I don't know if I got the juice right now to endure this, so I'm just gonna take the path of least resistance.
Sophie: Yeah. And it's like when you go back to your home country and like when we go back to the US it's like you don't realize it until you're sitting there. Just how good it feels to be able to speak in your native language and have everyone understand you.
Jordan: I mean,
Sophie: like,
Jordan: I, I honestly, like, I stopped in Miami, which Spanish is the language of Miami because people would speak in Spanish first there.
Jordan: Now I am fluent in Spanish or fluent enough. So even that was like,
Sophie: felt more like coming home.
Jordan: Well it was crazy, right?
Jordan: I'm working at it, but with Spanish, like it just, it comes very easily now. So hopped in a cab with this Cuban guy and we were just bullshitting the whole time. Talk about all sorts of stuff. And my brain is just like, I know I can do this [00:38:00] in another language, but French is like keeping me at arm's length.
Jordan: So it was cool to have that, like that experience of like speaking in another language, but where I could still connect.
Jordan: We could have a good conversation. I didn't get everything but like way more fluid. And so, and then. Going into like, speaking English with people everywhere I go and just like, yeah,
Sophie: like it just
Jordan: getting, it was like, Ooh, I can kind of breathe and
Sophie: relax. Yes. That's what it is. It's like you can breathe because when you think about it, it's like when you are in a different country and you're learning how to assimilate and you're speaking a different language, like you are one of the bravest people to exist.
Sophie: Don't ever forget that because every day you're essentially waking up and deciding you're gonna put one foot in front of the other, potentially make a total ass out of yourself. Not know what you're doing in so many different instances. Be, part of whatever bureaucratic, situation, what, like all these different things, right?
Sophie: It's so brave. And so I think when you go back to your home country and you understand everything and you don't have to do [00:39:00] all these other things, it's like I can exhale and just relax.
Jordan: Most of the time I feel like I'm wearing a corset because it's just, it's like you're in a pressure cooker and
Jordan: when you're mentally super focused. And just like staring at people's mouths and like translating and thinking, it's just, it's a lot of mental load. And when you go back to your native language and you don't have to do that, and you pick up on nuances, you pick up on mumbles, you pick up on like little, like slang or a little like euphemisms or jokes.
Jordan: Like it's just, you know, I've, I still speak to, Americans and I speak in English when I'm here, so like I still get that, but it's more like everywhere I go I can pop in and like man, my confidence walking around to get shit done when I was there was crazy.
Sophie: Yeah. Your confidence. Yeah, it's
Jordan: wild.
Jordan: I was just walking around like I fucking owned every place I go into because I just thought talk to people and it was just, it was wild. It was like a wild [00:40:00] feeling. And then I came back and honestly what was cool was I felt a similar version of the confidence when I got back. It was more of
Jordan: that what Sophie was just talking about, this like bravery, pride that I had when I got back into France. And even though like I'm having like really minor conversations, I'm asking somebody, Hey, this is the train that I'm looking for, am I in the right spot? And they're like, yeah, yeah, it's just right down there.
Jordan: And I'm like, cool, thanks. That was cool and I have to work too hard for that. And it was fun. And so you get those, feeling like it's good to leave and then come back and be like, oh, okay, cool.
Sophie: Yeah. And I think just like one other point I wanted to make just has to go with that is that I think it's not only just the language and the communication, but just the cultural comforts. Similar humor and the small talk that you can have and these idioms and these nuances. And I always say this to Jordan, I say, it's always easier to experience the asshole that you understand, right? Like it's though, because you know how people are wired, where you come from.
Sophie: And so that is [00:41:00] something that I just, because Francis culture and we make no bones about this, like it takes a long time to. Really befriend someone for the most part. 'cause they are more reserved and it's like they have a hard outer shell. You have to crack open. And I think sometimes, even though we've definitely made some great friends here and we love them, I think that we, when we go back to the states and we experience, that part really resonates with us where, because that's, we're very open, we're very warm people.
Sophie: And so I think that resonates, like, when you could just immediately talk to someone,
Jordan: you just feel like you can really be
Sophie: yourself. Yeah. And be yourself and just understand each other and you come from that culture and
Jordan: I definitely feel like,
Sophie: and hugs my God. Fucking hugs i's never, I'll never get over that.
Jordan: Um, nobody, nobody kissed me for an entire week. Yeah. Actually that's not true at all. I saw some buddies and I got a, a whole lot of kisses, but very different.
Sophie: But on the other hand too, then you think about the fact that when we're in the US there are so many things that we miss about being in France too.
Sophie: And that's why it can really feel like this wild [00:42:00] whiplash where you never quite feel you're totally 100% subtle and you always are thinking about the other place that you're not in because these places become, part of your history and your story and your life and they seep into you.
Sophie: And so I think there's just parts that you love of either, and it's hard to compare and whenever you're in one place you miss something about the other. And
Jordan: I definitely had these feelings of like kind of being an outsider when I was back home in Austin. Totally.
Sophie: Totally.
Jordan: Because I was just like, yeah, this is not my day to day at all.
Jordan: Like I love my day to day. Yeah. In comparison to what I'm doing.
Sophie: Totally. So some of the top things that every time we're in the US we miss is there's just such a smaller, more quaint world that we live in. And like we say that in the best way, like things are so much more simple.
Sophie: Even when I'm walking down the street and all these little stores, I'm like, I can't believe that there's a store that can just sell pistachios and everything that's made from it.
Jordan: Right. It's
Sophie: just , but it's adorable. Like
Jordan: all pistachio. Yeah. Then there's an all honey.
Sophie: Yeah.
Sophie: But I love that and I love that it's just so much more simple [00:43:00] and it really feels like in a way you've stepped back in time because, as we know, like things are so crazy in the world right now. And so I think it feels like you have this little just quieter safety net because your mind is already running 20,000 things all the time, and to have not as much of that noise on the outside is a really incredible feeling that you do.
Sophie: You miss it when you're back in the states and you're just thought, go, go, go. And what's the next thing? And. Billboards and news and all these things and it just doesn't feel that way when you're here. Not in your face. No, not at all. I mean, you have to seek it out for it to be more in your face. The food rituals and the food culture here, obviously. You know, there's certain places in the US like California where you don't feel it quite as much because they have all these, like, I mean, what California provides, what, 70% of all the produce for the rest of the United States,
Jordan: right?
Jordan: So when you're looking for good produce and it's right there,
Sophie: right? But a lot of places in the states aren't like that. And so I think just , all I wanna do when I go back to the states if I'm not going somewhere like California is I just wanna be able to find an amazing farmer's market [00:44:00] as soon as I can because it just makes me feel like home.
Sophie: Because every three days, I mean technically every day, but the big market, three days a week I get to walk outside and the streets are filled with vendors selling all of these amazing food products and produce and fish and meat and cheese. And it's just part of their culture and it's such a integral part of who they are.
Sophie: And so I miss that rhythm of life. Like when I go back to the states and I know you like miss all the food.
Jordan: It's just so accessible here. It's easy to walk down the street and hit all these little different restaurants, cafes like they're everywhere where depending on where you're at, there's food that's grouped together, but then there's like long stretches without it.
Jordan: Obviously you have that everywhere, but we're in the city center, so that's just what we've gotten acclimated to and it's just really easy to find.
Sophie: There's so many things that we talk about if you listen to our podcast, like there's a million things of why we love living here.
Sophie: But I think one of the things that I also [00:45:00] miss so much and feel so like a fish out of water when I go to the US is just being surrounded by beauty everywhere you go. Even today when I went to the gym and I came back and I'm like, there are Roman ruins and there are like fountains everywhere that were built by Romans and these buildings that are unbelievable and the cobblestone streets and like all these things.
Sophie: And it's like, you know, and then you drive around in, in the States and you see a lot of like strip malls and you know, just things that, I mean they just, we haven't been around as long. Like, it just, and it looks different. And of course there's so many beautiful things in the US and different pockets, but it's just.
Sophie: It's just different. And I, I miss that immensely.
Jordan: I do remember before we moved, we were walking around in our neighborhood, and again, we're in Texas and we're in a residential area that had, houses from like the sixties, seventies. And I just remember we had just gotten back from the trip here where we, or no, not just, but [00:46:00] somewhat recently.
Jordan: 'cause I remember walking with the twins and I just remember walking around X and you have these gigantic pastel colored buildings mm-hmm. That just look amazing. And the cobblestone and the fountains, everything Sophie's talking about and you're walking around, it's so interesting looking and you can see it just has that like historical sentiment around it. And then I remember walking back in Austin, and I was just like, this is not interesting to walk around, you know? No. So I don't think we ever take it for granted.
Jordan: We have like
Sophie: never
Jordan: very cool views outside our window, and I just stare at 'em like, this is fucking cool. This
Sophie: is where we live.
Jordan: It's not where we're from. So it's new to us, even though it's been a couple years. Like it's still new.
Sophie: Yeah.
Jordan: You know, and, and I think we just have that appreciation for it. So it's, it's super fun to think about that when I'm back in like this very, like everything's modern.
Jordan: Like every new building being built in Austin is some variation of like glass design
Sophie: Also, I feel like when you're going in between two places, and especially if you [00:47:00] go back to your home country, I feel like you have whiplash because you kind of forget how to exist in your home country, which is really funny.
Sophie: And I know you were telling me that you were crossing the streets.
Jordan: Oh my god, yeah. So here, when you cross the street, like it is absolute right away for the pedestrian. So even on busy roads when people shouldn't be crossing, like people get honked at, but at the same time people still stop. And I am very used to that and I remember.
Jordan: From my time in Chicago, from my time living in Buenos Aires, like I am a city guy. I'll cross the street, I'll cross busy streets, I'll walk right behind the cars. It's passing. Like that's, that's kind of normal for me. But, but here, like I'm always crossing the street and I still look, but cars are stopping and it's just normal.
Sophie: It's not even that. It's that people will literally stand on like the very fucking edge of the street where peoples
Jordan: not like
Sophie: that. No, I don't like it. 'cause I always feel like they're gonna walk out and I'm gonna hit them, but it's just part of their [00:48:00] culture. And then because they want to walk across the street, whether it's illegal or legal or whatever you wanna call it, as fast as they possibly can.
Jordan: And I was walking to the office in the morning, like the first day, and there was a red light. I didn't have the crossing symbol. There's no cars around plus like the roads are a little whatever. And so I just start crossing. And there was a car that was like, far away and I was like halfway through the street.
Jordan: I was very clearly gonna make it across, but I didn't even think about it. I'm just like, yeah, there's nobody here. It's easy for me to cross. I'm gonna do it. And she's lays on her horn at me for such a long time and I was like looking around is that for me? And it was absolutely for me. And I started laughing because I'm just like, I'm not like at her, just at the situation. I'm like, I wasn't even thinking about it. I know people cross the street all, all over, but it was just like where my head was at.
Jordan: I was like, this is just so normal. Somebody would drive by and as long as like I'm not completely like bending over and tying my shoe in the middle of the road and like full on stopping them. Just not a big deal. They'll just stop for [00:49:00] pedestrians.
Sophie: Right.
Jordan: And she was like very upset. Even though I had so much space, it was just, yeah,
Sophie: And you realize this too, the more that you travel outside of the states is that we're very much like you stay within like certain lines. We have laws and people just, they pay attention to it. Whereas like the rules are bent 24 7 I think when you go to a lot of other countries in the world.
Sophie: What's really funny is you'll go back, like we go back to the US and there are words that I literally cannot remember how to say them in English. So I have to use the French word, like there's spices now that I use that I cannot remember what the
Jordan: same,
Sophie: what the, what the English word is.
Sophie: And so all those things, it's kind of funny because it's just like you're back in your home country and things are feeling really good, but also like you have changed and things have happened and you're bringing this whole different world and experience with you and it just bleeds into each other a little bit more.
Sophie: We could talk about this for a long time, but I think the whole point is, there are just the realities of [00:50:00] moving somewhere and knowing that. You're never going to not have your home country in your heart. Right. And I think it's okay if you feel split, and I don't think it ever means you made the wrong choice.
Sophie: It just means that you've had experiences and you, you've loved more than one place deeply. And it's changed you.
Jordan: I look at it as a huge benefit and I think that we experience this here when we meet people and there is I think it's probably easier for us to recognize here than it is in the US because that's where we're from.
Jordan: So we have a lot more that we can relate to with people. But here, I think we've noticed that when we meet other people, French people who have traveled quite a bit, it's very different in terms of how you connect and relate with them. Mm-hmm. Than you do with people who just haven't really traveled.
Jordan: They've been in France their whole life and I'm sure. People moving to the US from a different country could say the same thing. It's
Sophie: the same thing.
Jordan: Yeah. You know, when you, you have [00:51:00] that experience and you travel, you just are, are way more aware of these experiences, you're, you're more empathetic to it because you've experienced it.
Jordan: And I think it's just, it's been a really fun supplement to the whole experience that we get to go back and have culture shock going to where we are from.
Sophie: Yeah.
Jordan: And reverse culture shock. Reverse culture shock, whatever. Like, it's just, it's just kind of an interesting kind of feeling.
Jordan: And I've enjoyed it. I enjoyed being back in Austin for a week and being really excited about the things that were there that I loved. A lot of it was just the people, but then just like the little things, we had a catered dinner that was barbecue and there were. Like there were two gigantic bowls of dill pickles.
Jordan: Yes. And I fucking ate so many pickles because you can only get kones here.
Jordan: And then I came back here and oh my God, when I got into the airport, was waiting for the train, I had so many [00:52:00] croissants that were right there. I was so happy to have that. And it was very cool to have that feeling. It was fun.
Sophie: You know, I think at the end of the day, the message is that it really is all okay. I think for a lot of people they want to feel more black and white about it.
Sophie: But I think once you have lived in different places, it becomes this sort of gray area where all of these beautiful memories and experiences and cultural, assimilations and things that you've learned, they all just convalesce and dance together.
Sophie: It's hard because you wanna put it all in one box and maybe leave something behind or not feel like you have to miss something. But that just isn't reality. And the more that we've lived this and the more that we've talked to others who have, immigrated, this is the most normal thing in the world, so don't ever beat yourself up for feeling this way.
Sophie: Like it's, I think it's a, it really speaks to an incredible life and rich experiences that only just make you more of who you are.
Jordan: I think it's really [00:53:00] well said because what pops into my head is like, I wrestled with this idea that it does have to be one or the other. And I've slowly started to recognize like two truths can exist at the same time.
Jordan: Right. I can still absolutely love that and love this.
Sophie: That's right.
Sophie: I mean all of the above. So just something that we wanted you to think about.
Sophie: If you happen to be, wondering what it's like to move abroad, this is definitely a big reality and if you already are living abroad, I think be easy on yourself and know that this is such a normal part of the experience and just give yourself grace and know that you're creating incredible experiences for yourself.
Sophie: So we
Jordan: collect some funny ass stories along the way. That's right.
Sophie: We, we certainly do. So on that note, we'll be back next week with a new episode and hopefully a couple less insane stories to tell you so,
Jordan: or not. Maybe we'll have some more crazy ones.
Jordan: Thanks for listening.
Sophie: Thanks guys.
[00:54:00]