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Welcome to an aviation podcast that caters to all aviation enthusiasts, ranging from pilots to airplane spotters. Our show covers a wide range of topics, including private pilot training, airline operations, and the latest aviation news. Our knowledgeable host, an experienced airline pilot with eight years of flying under his belt, is thrilled to share his own experiences and offer valuable advice to help you pursue your aviation dreams. We are here to support you on your journey, constantly wishing you Tailwinds & Sunshine!
How's it going, everybody? Welcome back to the show. I am sorry I haven't posted anything in, 5 months going on 6 here. There was some equipment issues I had. I had to replace some stuff and also, it's just been really really, really busy 6 months, right?
Manny:Because I mentioned in the last series with my friend Rachel that I was going to leave the training department, but I didn't, you know. I was convinced otherwise and I stayed in, and then on top of that, I had to go out and fly more because I had to get reach my 1000 hours so I can get into class, upgrade class with my 1000 hours. I finally did it but it was it was bonkers, guys. It was so crazy how much I had to fly especially in January. I flew about, I think, it was a 105 hours a block.
Manny:That's insane. The average typically is in the mid eighties so you can you can assume, you know, you can and then obviously that's block time, right? So that means that I credited more time where I was out in hotels and you know not at home longer than that. Anyways, went to upgrade training just recently. I just passed my upgrade training a couple days ago so I'm now officially a captain of SkyWest Airlines in the 175.
Manny:Barely, really, really looking forward to that, but what I what really got me into finally pushing this episode out was that I met Patrick who is my guest on today's episode. Patrick is an air traffic controller in Salt Lake and I've never met him before. We've just known each other through, Instagram and we recorded this episode or, or interview, I should say, back in September of last year. So keep in mind that if you do hear any time references or in reference to last year. And I was in Salt Lake for Sims and, I reached out to him and said, hey, can I get a can I please have a a tour of the facility?
Manny:He was really gracious enough to fit us into his very busy schedule because this guy is if I'm busy, he's busier than, you know, and I don't even know how he keeps his his Instagram page. It's it's ridiculous. But anyways, my sim partner and I, went to say, so, I'm sorry, SoCal, Salt Lake, TRACON and he it was amazing. We loved it. My sim partner were starry eyed and we were just asking a bunch of questions.
Manny:We were just mesmerized by the the stuff these guys do. Right? So I was already a little bit embarrassed because I was going into the lion's den. Right? I was gonna go meet Patrick for the first time and I had to show my stupid face with after I hounded him for months.
Manny:Hey, let's get this episode going. When are you going to schedule a time frame? When are you gonna send me the pictures? Then nothing happened. So, Patrick, I'm sorry.
Manny:I was honestly embarrassed when I met you, but I didn't wanna bring it up again because I felt like it was gonna be like I was gonna jinx myself and I was not gonna make it happen, but I finally got the replacement stuff that I needed and, you know, I got the motivation to do it because I'm like I'm not gonna let my friend Patrick down again. I'm gonna put this episode out. So thank you so much for your patience, guys. And I really honestly, besides just being like I mentioned this before, I am not the best at time management, so I've gotten better, but I think I highly underestimated the amount of works it takes to actually produce an episode for the show, and I just don't find the time. And when I do, I don't even have the motivation to do it because, I just balancing life right either, you know, the days off that I do have, I some of it is wasted in commuting.
Manny:I'm gonna start talk, stop talking about it and we're just gonna go right to the show. So this is gonna be, I don't know if I mentioned it before, but it's gonna be a multi series episode, a multi series. This is the first of a multi series session or episodes or whatever you want to call it because we did sit down and, we were talking for close to 2 hours and after everything was sitting down, I think it was like over 2 hours. I'm cutting this into bite sized chunkies. Chunkies?
Manny:Bite sized chunks? And so it's gonna be a little bit more digestible for you guys to listen to. But anyways, once again, thank you so much. I appreciate your support. A lot of you have been asking me when I'm gonna post something, when I'm gonna upload an an episode and you probably heard the same response, you know.
Manny:Oh, yeah. I'm getting to it, you know, whatever. But here it is and I think 2024 is gonna be a little bit more better with consistency, of producing content for the show. Anyways, thanks so much. Love you guys.
Manny:Let's go. Hey, folks from the flight deck. This is your captain speaking. Welcome to the Tailwinds and Sunshine podcast, where we talk everything aviation. I am your host, Manny Ramirez.
Manny:It's always a pleasure to have you on board. So please sit back, relax, and enjoy the show
Manny:Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. Thank you having me in your homes. Thank you for spending some time with me. Today, I have very special guest.
Manny:My guest is an air traffic controller. He's gonna give us more details about his, his passion and his career in, Salt Lake TRACON Salt Lake, TRACON. And, Patrick, welcome to the show.
Patrick:It's good to be here. Thanks, Manny.
Manny:Hey. It's, it was I've been trying to book you for, like, the last I don't know, like, since January something of this year, and you have just been yeah. It's been a while. And I've been trying to book you for a while, and I was like, hey, when are you gonna do it? You know, when are you gonna book an, a slot or something?
Manny:And and you've just been super busy. And I'm so glad that you're able to, to be here today because I have a list of questions I wanna ask you and I just wanna get to know and share with everyone what an air traffic controller does because I want to share not only a pilot's perspective, but also just what everyone else does in aviation, you know, air traffic controllers, rampers, gate agents, etcetera. And, but, yeah, I'm really glad that you're here. And, Patrick and I met, and I'm doing air quotes here. We met through Instagram.
Manny:So we kinda just started talking, and, I I think we started talking on, online because I remember I've flown a couple of times to Salt Lake. I haven't been able to fly into Salt Lake. The trips that I get from Denver are not conducive to go through Salt Lake most of the time. That's kinda more, the West Coast East that kinda go into Salt Lake. And And so I haven't been able to go to Salt Lake, so I haven't been able to hear you on frequency or get to interact with you actually in, in person.
Manny:So but we just kind of exchange stuff, and, Patrick is actually a a a plane spotter, and he has a Instagram account. It's radar contact without the a. It's radrcontact. That's his Instagram handle, so you can follow him there. He has a lot of great pictures.
Manny:His his, profile, his page is just beautiful. It's like one plane in every row, and it's it's just a really aesthetically pleasing to look at his page. So I really like that. But that's how kinda how yeah. So that's kinda how we met and we just been trying to get together and finally, I pinned him down and here he is now, Patrick.
Manny:So that's that's how we met. Now and, Patrick, how how did your passion for aviation started?
Patrick:Honestly, man, it's like it started young. I think I've I've kinda feel like I speak for, like, the masses when it comes to aviation. It kinda it it gets you, like, when, like, the kinda when you least expect it. So for me, it was really young. I had, you know, anybody's read the airways profile interview, like, you kinda see a little bit more history about kinda, like, where it started.
Patrick:But for me, it was just I was traveling a lot as a young kid. Just really lucky, really fortunate, but my mom was from South Africa, and so we were traveling back and forth between Kansas at the time, where I kinda grew up. And then I was in Kansas City, and we would go back and forth between South Africa. So just remember just being in Chicago, seeing the the TWA 747 just sitting outside the window and just thinking, like, yeah, like, it's such a beautiful plane. But I saw the tower in the back.
Patrick:I don't know why, but it was just like from that moment on, it was like aviation had completely consumed me. But air traffic control has kind of always just been one of those things that was like, I wanted to work in the tower. That was, like, my goal. I wanted to be in the tower. And to this day, I'm 18 years in my career, and I've never worked a tower.
Patrick:Yo. Wow. Radar. Yes.
Manny:Yes. That's cool. Radar. So your focus when you saw the airplane and immediately just, like, pan left or pan right, and you saw a tower. It's like, I wanna work up there.
Manny:That's where I wanna work. Yeah.
Patrick:I feel like you take any kids, like, a tall, like, a tall building. Right? You wanna go as high as you possibly can. So you're like, wow. That'd be so cool to be, like, up high and see everything, like, the big view all at once and then Yeah.
Patrick:It just kinda stuck from there.
Manny:Yeah. So and I met and I've I remember and speaking airways magazine about 2 years ago. How did that come about? How did you get to interview with, or how did they interview you? How did that interview come about at Airwaves Magazine?
Patrick:So for me, it's like Airwaves was one of those magazines that that started for me really young because it was, like, there was no spotting really back then. It was just kinda like if you got aviation news, the Internet wasn't really around all that much. So it was, like, kind of in its beginning stages. So the way that you got your airplane news was through the Airways or the Airliners Magazine. Yeah.
Patrick:But I was I was given subscriptions to Airways Magazine from a very young age, and that's where it was like it just kinda fed the passion. Right? Like, you just gotta go through the pages, see all the pictures, and that's kinda where it was like that little, like, light bulb has always kind of been there. I was like, happy and I was like, I'd love to be able to take pictures of planes, like, be out there and just watch them. But, you know, as a kid, cameras are a little expensive, but we landed up, just through Airways.
Patrick:Just it's always been a part of me. I've always had Airways magazines, like, land around. Just was my way of keeping up and getting to see like the different liveries that are coming out and like the special liveries that airlines were doing because there was that section in the front. And so it was kinda like the exciting part, and then you go into the stories. And so it was just kind of it was a great way to learn about the aviation, like, industry and community, like, right from the get go as a kid.
Patrick:And then it just kinda went through as, as, like, I grew up. It kinda just helped me kinda build that flat like, that platform, that foundation to kinda just push off of and kinda help me kind of, I don't know, maybe just kinda be able to find a way to, like, really bring, like, my, like, my passion for aviation
Manny:Right.
Patrick:Like, all around. So it it was one of those things that as I started doing it, I have a friend that was in Honolulu that worked out at the ramp. A lot of people know him. It was HNL Ramper on Yeah.
Manny:I've seen his stuff. Yeah.
Patrick:So he he and I have been friends for a while, and then, he landed up one day just made it a comment just on, like it was just through, like, my personal Instagram, and then all of a sudden, he just is, like, he was, like, really should be posting this stuff in kind of, like, an aviation type, you know, like, page. Should, like, be able to share the passion. Like, there's a great community. There's a, like, a lot of people that share that passion. So I kinda push it off for a little bit, but because my friend HNL Ramper landed up telling me to, like, hey, like, you should you should push it.
Patrick:That's where I started posting. I I created the account just purely for fun. It was just a way to kind of keep the passion alive whereas, like, I go to the brakes. I go on my brakes to the tower all the time even before I was doing photography just because it's like I gotta go look at planes. Like, why would I want to go look at and watch TV when I can go to the tower and go see everything moving?
Patrick:Like everything else I do is a screen and dots. It's like I go up to the tower and go see the view, go see the mountains, go see the planes, go see everything that's interesting that comes in out of Salt Lake. And then it was kind of after starting that. I was I was tagging Airways just because I was like, that was it was like my jam. That was like, those are my people.
Patrick:They didn't even know it. I was like Yeah. I wanted them to see that it was like you were a part of me, like, from when I was a tiny kid, and I'm like your magazines have been through, like, been in my life. And so it's like, I don't know, maybe it's kind of a goal of mine. It always has been is to get a picture inside Airways.
Patrick:That'd be like a full circle moment for me.
Manny:Uh-huh.
Patrick:But I just started tagging him just to, like, try to get attention, but at the same time, just kind of be like, hey, like, I'm here. And, my good friend, Francesca Francesca that was, that works for Airways, he reached out, and we kinda formed our relationship and friendship there, like, where he was so awesome. Such a great guy. He landed up, you know, saying, like, hey. Like, we wanna do, like, a photography, like, highlight your account for, like, a week.
Patrick:You know, like, post, like, a couple of your pictures, and then he started doing these airways profiles. And so he's like, I have another idea. He's like, it's up to you. I'll leave it up to you. He's like, we can do this thing where I can highlight you as a photographer or I can make you and, like, do an airways profile, like, interview.
Patrick:Yeah. And so I felt like it was a more beneficial thing because you don't hear about a lot of air traffic controllers, and he was very fortunate to get a lot of really awesome people on the profile. And I know he's got a couple of other traffic controllers that have been on the profile as well. And I was like, I just feel like this is a great way to kind of help people understand air traffic because what we a lot of times see is just what's out the window at the airport. You see the planes, you see the pilots, you see the flight attendants.
Patrick:You don't really hear about air traffic until something goes wrong where it's like, hey. We're in delays. Air traffic's, you know, delaying us and then everybody hates us.
Manny:They they blame air traffic control. Yeah. That's a default defense makers. Oh, there's air traffic controllers and gentlemen. Yeah.
Manny:They're delaying us. There's a delay. So you guys get the short end of the stick. So that's yeah. That's really cool that we bring awareness to what air traffic control does because really, without air traffic control at this point in time, we wouldn't be able to fly.
Manny:We just wouldn't fly, you know. It's just like, there's no way we can do it because we're gonna crash into each other one way or another. Even with the advanced technology we have on board, we're just gonna have planes running into each other. So we need air traffic control. And air traffic control has come a long way from the initial inception of,
Patrick:I forgot what they call
Manny:it back in the day. It was not the FAA. It was something else. I know what
Patrick:you're talking about. I can't remember.
Manny:Yeah. But it was basically the initially, it was something else and, and I think the FAA became the FAA after that incident in, in the Grand Canyon with the, United. There was a mid air collision back in the fifties, I think it was. And then after that, it was like the FAA. But, yeah, that's really cool.
Manny:So you did that, and and they did a profile on you. You you they highlighted some of your pictures in Airways Magazine.
Patrick:Yep.
Manny:And that that was, that so for you, it was like a full circle event. It was like, yes, this is what I wanted to do. And now now it's like, I've made it. I'm here. That's that's have there been other opportunities for you to, like, share your, share your, kind of back, what what I'm calling, like the, backstage scene into what air traffic control does?
Manny:Kind of
Patrick:like an an like another interview. I've done, I've done one podcast with a good friend of mine.
Manny:Okay.
Patrick:He was trying to do a podcast. So I did one with him, like, pretty early on, like, actually, it's not early on. It was probably, like, maybe, like, 6 ish years ago. Yeah. I ended up doing an interview.
Patrick:So it was, like, that was really my first experience in order to, like, kind of being able to, like, talk about air traffic. Yeah. And kinda give, like, insight as to the background because, I mean, I think the important thing is that people see the relationship between pilots and controllers and that it's not just us either. There's a whole field of people. Like, aviation is such a team effort.
Patrick:Yeah. And it's like and it starts from, like, the very, like, down at the bottom. You know, it's like even just when you first get there, the gate agent that checks you in, it's, like, that's a part of the team. And then Yeah. Everything.
Patrick:You know, by the time you leave, it's I don't know. I just felt like the more that we could get word out there is that like what's it like to be an air traffic controller? Like what's the job? Or how do we interact with pilots or how do pilots interact with us? But I was like, it's actually it's, you know, without being, like, sappy.
Patrick:It's, like, it's a way bigger picture than that.
Manny:Oh, yeah.
Patrick:It's a much bigger picture.
Manny:You and I are just pieces of the puzzle, you know, of everything because, you have ramp controllers. You have the, like you said, gate agents. You have everyone. You have dispatch. You have ops.
Manny:You have, you know, even the city, you have everything, you know, that's involved. So if if one of those things doesn't match up, then things start going wrong. You know, there's delays and some and and a lot of people don't realize how important that how crucial every part is. You know, when you have something that doesn't work, then there's a delay. And it could be a mechanical.
Manny:It could be, you know, it could be mechanical. It could be maybe someone timed out. You know, a crew member timed out or something. You know? And right now and I'm gonna talk we're gonna talk a little bit more about this in a little bit, but, you know, staffing.
Manny:You know, staffing in our facilities, staffing at the airlines. So that's that's a plays a really important role. Alright. So now another one question that I was thinking about when I was, you were talking about the airways interview was, have you watched the movie Pushing 10? Yes.
Manny:Yes. It's mandatory. Right? It's mandatory.
Patrick:It's yeah. It's like Top Gun and Pushing 10. It's like when you're controlling, it's like it's it's 2 movies, not 1. Yeah. So Exactly.
Patrick:Definitely, Pushing 10 has been there. It's ever it's kind of like the number one question. You know, it's like, if you've seen Pushing 10, but the funny thing is, like, I had not watched it for actually a long time. Yeah. I've never seen it until I was maybe, like, almost 10 years into the agency.
Patrick:Yeah. So I finally, like, broke down. I was, like, alright. Like, we're gonna watch this. Like, we're gonna see what it's all about.
Patrick:So Yeah. It's definitely entertaining.
Manny:Yep. It is. Yeah. I saw it. I was, like, it can't be this.
Manny:Like, hey, hey. No. Like, for those of you who know that Pushing 10 is a movie with, Billy Bob Thornton, John Cusack, Angelina Jolie. I'm sure I'm missing some of them, but it's basically about air traffic controllers and the, just kinda it's a it's a kinda drama comedy, I guess you can say. It's a drama comedy.
Manny:It's pretty funny, about the, hijinks of air traffic controllers and what they do. Obviously, it's drama to I think there's drama. You know, it's Hollywood. Right? Yeah.
Manny:But I remember, like, you get the question about pushing 10. When I tell people what I used to do in the army, I used to be an explosive or in his disposal technician, EOD or bomb squad. And I told them, oh, yeah. I was EOD. And they're like, oh, have you seen the movie, A Hurt Locker?
Manny:And I was like, yeah. And just like you, I had not seen that movie until after I became a EOD tech. And I was like, oh, that's what it is. And I'm like, yeah. That's not how we do it at all.
Manny:Not that's a different type of environment, but still this, you know, it's is is is the added drama just for Hollywood. But but, yeah, it's one of those movies that if you, if you're an EOD tech, like, everyone's like, yeah, we watched it. Or some people swear they've never seen it and they will never watch it, but I'm sure they've seen it. Or, like, Airplane, the movie Airplane, the comedy one from the eighties, that's another mandatory movie that all pilots must watch. Airplane, that's, it's a comedy.
Manny:It's just that I'm in aviation. Right. And in fact, I've I found out recently that it was not recently, I would say probably within the last couple of years. I found out as a parody to another movie, which I didn't even know about. Do you know that?
Manny:It was a parody. I
Patrick:did not know that.
Manny:Yeah. Apparently, it's a parody to another movie. I'm like, well, that's news to me. I didn't know about that. So I was, yeah, so that's kinda cool.
Manny:Now, so how did you get where you're at now? So what's your trajectory when you started? So when, when you were a kid, you say you were pretty young, how did you get to where you're at now? Like, when did you start to decide to go to school and what school you went to?
Patrick:It's a great question, because what I did then is completely different than what you would do now. So, obviously, the spark was, like, started at age 4. I can tell you that much. Like, it
Manny:Age before you remember, I don't even new. Oh my god. That's really young. That is really young. Like, I don't remember.
Manny:I think my earliest memories of that age was, like, I think Christmas at age 4. And after that, like, before that, I don't remember anything. Like, I don't my existence began at age 4 during Christmas.
Patrick:Yep. Yeah.
Manny:But for you, though That's
Patrick:where it's like Wow. It hits. Right? So it just sticks. But I mean Yeah.
Patrick:It's kinda like a blessing and a curse, but definitely more of a blessing because it was, like, I knew what I wanted. I knew what I wanted to do. I knew what I had to do. So school was wasn't really difficult because I wasn't sitting there, like, trying to figure out, like, I would kinda, like, go through certain classes and I'd be, like, alright. Like, I'm gonna learn from this class, but it's not, like, it doesn't necessarily apply to what I want.
Patrick:And so I was able to, like, basically compartmentalize, like, going through school. And then so for me, like, when I got towards, I started flight training when I was a senior in high school and started flying with a really good friend as my instructor. And so then when I graduated, I was like, okay. Like, I think growing up, you know, if you don't really, like, totally pay attention, you're always like, okay. Well, I'm gonna go to the, like, the nearest university and that's gonna help me, like, get to where I wanna go.
Patrick:Reality that is not anywhere near the truth, but you might be lucky. Yeah. For me, like, I started at Select Community College just doing aviation. I was like, I gotta get I just wanna be immersed in it. I just don't wanna do anything else.
Patrick:I just want aviation classes, everything. Yeah. I did what I you know, the normal classes like everybody else, but I definitely had my aviation classes set in with flight training, ground school, all that kind of stuff. So it got to the point where I finally was like, okay. Like, I know that I can't do what I wanna do by staying in Utah.
Patrick:So I was fortunate enough in my neighborhood, I had a, like, air traffic controller that worked at Salt Lake Tracon, and I had a controller that worked at Delta Ramp at the Salt Lake Airport. So I had 2 amazing resources that basically speak to right from the very get go to kind of Nice. K. What do I gotta do? How do I get there?
Patrick:How do I make it? Delta Ramp controller had a lot of knowledge, and he's a great friend of mine. And then the the individual that other those are what the that worked at Sully Tragon. He was actually probably my greatest resource, Grew up with him. His son and I were friends and everything.
Patrick:And, then by the time they, like, I I finally had those questions, I could relate to him and be like, hey. So it's happening. Like, what do I do? How do I get there? What are my options?
Patrick:And so he literally just went to town and just started getting all the information for, for me, and then I had the chance to take a look. So after all of that, basically, what it came down to is there's the only way to get into air traffic control was you either had to go to, the military and, you know, if you get I don't I mean, I don't I've never been in the military, but it's like I don't know how they assign, like, the assignments. It's like or if you express interest in being in the air traffic control program, that type of thing, like, kind of, like, flight slots or the pilot slots. Yeah. So didn't know how that worked, but I was like, I'm gonna go civilian.
Patrick:And so the civilian options for me were there was 10 schools. Schools. The only way to get in was to go to one of these 10 schools that were considered what we call training initiative, like, programs. So it was 10 of them. Most of them were associates degree programs.
Patrick:I wanted bachelor's. That was just a personal decision. So there was 2 schools that narrowed me to 2 schools, and that was North Dakota, UND and the UAA, which is University of Alaska Anchorage. So me, personally, I wanted Alaska because Alaska fits with, like, who I am and, like, kind of my hobbies and, like, what I enjoy doing. Mhmm.
Patrick:North Dakota didn't really match what I wanna do outside of school.
Manny:Yeah.
Patrick:But we were had a we kinda had a decision to make, like, well, we know we've heard about both schools, but what do we do? So we landed up saying, like, hey. We can't make the decision without seeing the schools first. So we landed up traveling to both schools. We went to North Dakota first and sat down with the director of the program.
Patrick:His name is Gary Bartelson, probably one of the coolest guys I've ever met in my schooling and throughout my career. One of the greatest guys ever, so fun, but knows what he was doing and was so eager to help and so, like, just excited to see people succeed. Yeah. You just felt it right from the very get go, and then he put his down.
Manny:And and that's that's a feeling you can tell. I was just talking, to a friend of mine, and she works in Denver at the airport. And when the first time I met her and when she told me and she said, hey, I just wanna see people succeed. And I could feel it.
Patrick:Yeah.
Manny:And, you know, and I was like, you can feel it. You can't fake that. And it was it's really such a really refreshing feeling, and you're like, wow, these people and they live a really they leave a really lasting impression on you. So it is really nice to have.
Patrick:Yeah. It was it was a 100% the the that first impression. Everybody's like, oh, you know, the first impression is, like, the biggest, a 100% it was. And but the thing was is that impression was backed up with everything that North Dakota had, and I was just, like I remember walking out and I was, like, you can't deny what UND has and what, like, the direction that they're going. Like, you can't deny it, but I was like, I haven't visited Anchorage yet.
Patrick:So a couple weeks later, we went to Anchorage to go visit. And, like, when we landed, it was just like, I'm in Alaska. Like, oh my gosh. I'm in Alaska. Like, this is where I wanna be.
Patrick:Like, this is so awesome. Skiing is so big for me, so it was just like, it's gonna be a distraction. Like, I knew it's gonna be a distraction, but
Manny:Yeah.
Patrick:Got to school or we got to the the the aviation building out there. It's at Merrill Field. And we had our tour set up, and we went to go visit same director of the program, go look at the, you know, the simulators, check out the schools, see everything. So I was actually enrolled in both schools at the same time till we made the decision as to which one we were dropping. Mhmm.
Patrick:So So by the time that we landed up going through the 1st day, there was a I'm not gonna mention that the individual's name, but the director of the program at the time was not that first impression wasn't there. Like, I just didn't feel it, and he wouldn't stand up from his desk to shake my hand or my dad's hand and try to get up there with me or anything.
Manny:Oh, hell no.
Patrick:And so I was like, I don't know. There there there was definitely a pass with it. So I was like, you know what? Like, not to knock him, not to knock the school at all because they're both incredible schools. I'm just trying to figure out what's right for me, where is my fit.
Manny:Exactly.
Patrick:So I had this super great visit with North Dakota. I'm trying to and it's like as I'm going through the day, I'm basically bouncing back and forth between like, okay, well, this was my experience experience in Anchorage. But everything for me kept going outside like my eyes are just drawn outside like mountains, pine trees. There's moose running around like everything. This is amazing.
Patrick:But then there was just it came down to we had one he invited like, the individual invited us to, like, this class to see the simulator in action, which is, I mean, what every student would wanna see. Right? You wanna see how the simulators work to make sure that
Manny:Yeah.
Patrick:You know, it's like it's awesome.
Manny:This is a close That's how you seal the deal, is you're on some simulators.
Patrick:Yep. Like, you're you're selling the program. You're selling it. Like, that's a huge selling point. Yeah.
Patrick:So I just remember I just it was like I was just so tied to Gary Bartleson in UND that I was like, I I can't turn my back. And so I landed up turning to my dad in the middle of this class, and I just said, it's just it's not for me. Yeah. He's like, are you sure? And I was like, yes.
Patrick:I'm like, it's not for me. I'm like, I can't deny North Dakota. It's like it's just where I want to be as much as I would love to be up here outside of class. Yeah. I'm like, I need to be in a spot where it's like, this is going to benefit me for, like, my career in the long run.
Patrick:Yeah. But it's like I work with a ton of people that went to UAA, and it's like they put out awesome awesome controllers. It's just Sure. The program fit for them and North Dakota fit for me. That's really all I
Manny:can do now too. Yeah. And it's and that is just, you say, gentleman's name is Gary, Gary Bartelson, you said?
Patrick:Gary Bartelson. Yep.
Manny:Okay. Yeah. I saw it. U n d. And you it's so important to that human connection and sometimes I bet you even felt like I don't wanna let him down.
Manny:Like, I don't want to disappoint him because I had so such a great time with his interaction that I I'm scared to disappoint him that I and tell him that I'm not gonna go there, you know, because of that. So when you have someone and you meet someone that makes that impact on your life, I think you know you've made the right choice. And, a lot of times, you know, and right now, I kinda wanna veer off a little bit on especially because you made a really good point about making a decision for yourself. Because a lot of pilots right now are are going out. There's, what we call an opportunity surplus for pilots because they can pretty much go anywhere they wanna go.
Manny:Right?
Patrick:Yes.
Manny:But but it just it's the importance of not it's not all about money. It's about where you're gonna fit because some people will say, well, the best fit is whoever pays me right now and gets me out of this regional airline. Right? Or whatever it is the whatever the case may be. But I had a really good, another good example that ties up with your example is that we had a friend of mine who is not interested in in airline flying.
Manny:He wants to do cargo. And he went interviewed for an airline, and he just got super underwhelmed experience based on how they treated him and how they portrayed themselves as professionals, and he was just underwhelmed. He's like, this is not where I wanna work. You know, he obviously can afford to make that decision because of the fact that he's, he's a captain in the in a Learjet, so he's he doesn't really care. But he was kind of trying to explore his options and and just the the underwhelming experience he had during the interview, he's like, this is definitely not for me.
Manny:And if I I suggest that if you go an interview with an airline and you feel the same way where, like, simple stuff like that, man, I'm like getting up and, like, hey, nice to meet you. Get up, shake your hand. You know, it's like even if they had a bad day, it was just probably not for you. You know, that, you know, maybe the universe is starting to tell you something. Like, maybe this is not for you because that feeling, it almost can come across as disrespectful.
Manny:You know, it's like when someone is like, hey, I traveled thousands of miles to come and see your program and the least you can do is get up and shake my hand and say hello or greet us appropriately. So when you go interview with someone, make sure you interview the airlines as well, you know, if you can afford it obviously because sometimes you just need to get in using an airline as a means to an end to get somewhere. But make sure it's a fit for you because you're gonna be, you're gonna be there for a while, you know, especially if you're gonna be there for the rest of your career, you're gonna be there for 20 plus years if you're gonna be there. Yep. So make sure that you interview the airline and make sure because the, the people you meet for the interview, there that this should be a a very good representation of what the airline's gonna be, and I think the airlines do a very they they spend a lot of money to make sure they put those people in place because they need to put their best foot forward, when they're interviewing you.
Manny:So make sure it's the, the airline you're going to is a good fit for you just like UND was a good fit for Patrick.
Patrick:Yes.
Manny:Alright, Patrick. So you went for UND and how long were you there? So you got you got your bachelor's degree there?
Patrick:The I got my bachelor's. So I went through Salt Lake Community College here and got did, like, my flight training and everything, and then I also got my associate's degree from Salt Lake Community College. So what that landed up doing for me in North Dakota was that because I had an associate's degree, I didn't have to declare a minor, which meant my schooling was reduced. Right? So in order to have, like, a minor with it as well, I didn't have to worry about doing, like, extra classes or which would probably been, like, another, like, couple, like, semesters pretty much.
Patrick:Yeah. So, I mean, at the end of the day, it's we had a pretty they had, like, the WUI program back in the day, which if it was out of state tuition, it was pretty it was a lot of money for North Dakota. Yeah. But with the WUI program, it saved us a bunch. So that actually ended up just being like a huge blessing for us.
Patrick:Like so I went up there. I got there in August of, yeah, I'm like, it's a good question. 2004 is when I got up there. And then I graduated in May o 6. So it was just a really quick send up there.
Patrick:Literally, all I was doing was just focused on the few things that I had to do that were kind of like the standard core classes that you had to do that were non aviation related. Yeah. And then everything for me for the most part was I did, I wanted to do a lot of flying as much as I could. I wanted I wanted the experience, but I love flying. That's the big thing for me.
Patrick:It's, like, yes. I love air traffic.
Manny:So you kinda you you answered my question there because I was about to ask you. It's like, is flying or having a certain your pilot or commercial or something, is that a prerequisite to become an air traffic controller?
Patrick:No. It's not required at all.
Manny:Okay. So it was just something you wanted to do?
Patrick:That's just me. That was just aviation running through my veins pretty much. So I got through, and I was like, when I got up there, there was just, like, some things with, like, UND recognizing certain, like, certifications or something like that that I was like, you know what? There's a there's a program that Gary Barlson had helped create called, like, intro to 8 intro to aviation, I think is what it was called. I don't remember.
Patrick:But I landed up doing it because the big thing for me was that obviously it was cheaper and my my main focus up there was to get my ATC training done because what basically comes down to is that I knew that there was a a timeline and a deadline that I wanted to be done by because the the hiring was just about to start and I needed to be in the right place at the right time. Yeah. And so I didn't want to add stuff to my plate until there was something I could do on my own. If it was, you know, it's like, you know, if I wanna keep doing licenses, like, as I go throughout my career, I can pay for that and I can do that kind of thing. But I landed up doing this.
Patrick:They required us to do an aviation course at UND, so that was a one prerequisite that UND did have is that you could either do private pilot ground school and get your private pilot's license or you do this, like, intro to aviation class, which does the first half you're out there doing VFR flight, just flying from basically the airport to practice areas, maneuvers, touch and goes, all that kind of stuff. Everything you would do during a private pilot ground school, but then or the private pilot's, kind of itinerary. But then halfway through, you switch to basically what would be getting your instrument rating. So they introduce you into IFR flight, like putting you through simulators and everything. And I had an awesome, awesome flight instructor.
Patrick:I, like we we sat down right from the get go, and I just told them, like, look. You have to know that, like, if it were any other way, I would say, like, we'll beat every syllabus to death. Like, we'll go out there. We'll repeat lessons if we have to. But I was, like, here's my goals, here's my ambition, here's my deadline.
Patrick:I need to be ready for when the hiring is like there was nothing official. We just knew it was there. As soon as I got through school and was graduated, I was putting myself into a better spot. And he was like, nope, I get it. I totally understand.
Patrick:And so he's just like, if you just promise me every single day that, like, you'll show up ready for the flight, like, that you had studied, like, you'll know what we're trying to go out there to accomplish. He's like, we'll go just knock that stuff out. And he's like, we'll go do, like we'll add on to it. Because there was a certain amount of time you had to do for each lesson, right? So you couldn't just be like, okay, I got it all done and I did it in 20 minutes versus an hour and a half.
Patrick:Yeah. So he would help me learn more beyond what the scope of the class was. And I feel really bad. I cannot remember his last name, but it was Trevor. Trevor, if he's out there and he's watching this and he remembers me, it's like you're the freaking man because he taught me so much.
Patrick:But he was so understanding of what my goals and my ambitions were just like I was watching all of my friends around me going for commercial aviation, which was awesome. But it was just I had to get through. So I Yeah. Landed up getting up there. So I was up there for almost almost just under 2 years to get through.
Patrick:And then it was kind of where we go to the waiting game.
Manny:Hey, fellow aviation enthusiast. Before I let you go, I'd like to ask you for a huge favor. If you could please go to the platform where you're listening this podcast in and leave a review, some feedback, and some comments. I really do appreciate that. I wanna make the Tailwinds and Sunshine podcast your podcast.
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Manny:You can reach me there with your suggestions or any feedback. Once again, thank you for the bottom of my heart. I appreciate the support. And until next episode, I wish you tailwinds and sunshine. See you.
Manny:The statements made on the show are my own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.