Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Hereditary follows a grieving family as they slowly unravel, only to discover their trauma has been deliberately engineered by a cult summoning a demon king. Equal parts family drama and slow-burn horror, the film rewards close attention — every symbol, ritual, and act of "kindness" turns out to be part of a plan that was never theirs to escape.
The Willies, a horror-comedy podcast about the things that scare us — "big, small, ridiculous, or genuinely unsettling." Hosted by Damo and Lily with rotating guests. Funny first, creepy second.
Fucking go. Hulled. Hulled.
Speaker 2:Oh, don't worry about it, my laugh.
Speaker 1:Oh, god. Okay. Happy Sunday.
Speaker 2:Happy Sunday. Happy Sunday. It is Sunday. Happy Sunday.
Speaker 1:Why do we work on a Sunday? It's meant to be a day of rest.
Speaker 2:Are we working? Or are we having living our best life?
Speaker 1:True. Living our best life on is this episode four of A Series of Stupid Decisions? We're coming a bit left field with our film choice.
Speaker 2:We are. Your fault entirely.
Speaker 1:It is completely my fault. And do you know what? I actually blame my friend, Jack Cooper Mhmm. Who hopefully will one day be a podcast guest. So it's a good thing to plug him now.
Speaker 1:But we were talking about horror films, he'd mentioned Hereditary being, like, one of his favorites. And I the only memory I had of Hereditary was I hated the ending. And I'd only watched it once, and I'd said to myself, okay, maybe I need to watch it again now that I know what the ending's gonna be because I might be able to appreciate it a bit more.
Speaker 2:Did you?
Speaker 1:Yes. I did actually. I still don't like the ending, but I was less like, what the fuck this time?
Speaker 2:What do wanna do? Do wanna get this off your chest now or do wanna wait until like No.
Speaker 1:No. I think let's wait. Let's wait. It's a pretty crazy ending, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is. Unexpected. Yeah. But yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2:But that's the ending, isn't it? So Let's start at
Speaker 1:Let's rewind.
Speaker 2:Lily, what's the scariest thing you've seen since we last met?
Speaker 1:A month ago.
Speaker 2:A month ago.
Speaker 1:So this is hot off the press. Okay. But I did go and see 28 later, The Bone Temple. Nice. Which I believe you did
Speaker 2:as I did. I met my daughter. I don't know. I think I didn't know when we yeah. I saw it pretty quickly because I was excited.
Speaker 1:I saw it yesterday.
Speaker 2:Oh, that recent? Yes. Oh, the show is really
Speaker 1:Fresh. Fresh. Yeah. Fresh. But I feel like we'll completely go off on a tangent if we talk too much about it.
Speaker 1:But I don't often jump in horror films. It got me three times.
Speaker 2:Did it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I can't remember when I whether I'd jump. I probably yeah. No. I do remember one. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I do
Speaker 1:because They had some good ones.
Speaker 2:Both me and my daughter were like, fuck. Yeah. And then yeah. But generally, well, I loved it and it was scary enough, wasn't it? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Not like psycho well, no, actually it was. It had a bit of everything, didn't it?
Speaker 1:A little bit of torture porn. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Little
Speaker 1:bit of jump scare. Yeah. Still had a good plot.
Speaker 2:A very good plot this time. Yeah. I reckon
Speaker 1:So much better than the first one.
Speaker 2:I actually was saying, actually, earlier that I think that it's not just a great horror film, it's a great film. Yeah. But I can I feel like it's not just a, yeah, a horror genre film? It's like just a really good. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Really good narrative.
Speaker 1:And it wasn't excessive gore either.
Speaker 2:No. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was part of, you know, that style of film, but it was used for a reason rather than just being for the sake of it.
Speaker 2:You know? Yeah. Funny because I've I've and again, we should probably jump off this and do it another time, shouldn't we? But Yeah. I've definitely heard from different people once that, oh, know, it's unnecessary violence.
Speaker 2:And I'm thinking, no. No. No. That's it's totally necessary because the whole point is that the infected are not the threat that they used to be. Now it's been done in The Walking Dead and all sorts, but Jimmy Lord Sir Lord Sir Jimmy Crystal and his crew, they're fucking horrible.
Speaker 2:They're proper evil.
Speaker 1:And it's that juxtaposition where they're dressed so, like, stupidly and the wig makes you think they're harmless. Yeah. Yeah. And then the complete opposite.
Speaker 2:They're the worst. The absolute worst. But maybe we should just do that film one day.
Speaker 1:I think we should book I think we can do it as a double like we did with Black Phone.
Speaker 2:Yes. We could do that.
Speaker 1:It would be like a two hour job.
Speaker 2:I think so. What a great idea.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I'll dress as Cleen Murphy.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna dress as Jimmy.
Speaker 2:Can you imagine? Let's both dress as Jimmy Savile and see how well that goes down.
Speaker 1:Okay. I only have a pink wig, so I'll have to get a blue one. A blue one? A blonde one?
Speaker 2:A blonde yeah. Blonde one. Blonde Blonde
Speaker 1:one. Okay.
Speaker 2:Will I will cut my femoral artery so that when we're filming the podcast, we'll see how long it takes me to bleed out and die.
Speaker 1:I don't think that would take long. Considering we have about an hour average, at least, I think that would cut our average.
Speaker 2:It's like four minutes isn't it?
Speaker 1:It wasn't long. It wasn't long. There's a lot of blood.
Speaker 2:Let's ask Cat Malek next time we see her. Sounds expected to bleed out.
Speaker 1:Good idea.
Speaker 2:Right. So who oh, have we said the film?
Speaker 1:No. Oh. We haven't. Do want to introduce it?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll introduce the fact that you said I should watch it because I thought I'd seen it.
Speaker 1:Yes. I gave you a massive spoiler. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You did. But I I honestly, it was so much was going on in the film that I kind of didn't really yeah. The spoiler was like a a a thing, but I I didn't honestly, I wasn't prepared for
Speaker 1:The darkness.
Speaker 2:Yes. And how because I love, like what do I love? I love the I love the witch. It's like Robert Eggers, but it's the same production crew, I think. And I I love anything that's like and there's a film called Rosemary's Baby.
Speaker 1:Yep. That's the Stephen King.
Speaker 2:Right. So it's got that same slow, demonic unraveling of everything that you think you know. And so and because the film is, so much, like, rooted in, like, family trauma, it is kinda it's like well, it's the same it's Ariasta, isn't it? Did Midsummer Midsommar as well. Yes.
Speaker 2:Another unraveling and trauma and right? So Yeah. So when I was watching it, even though you'd kind of yeah. The spoiler was there, it really didn't matter at all. But I was sure I'd seen it because why the hell wouldn't I have seen that film?
Speaker 1:As an avid horror fan
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That is surprising. And it had it had quite a lot of publicity around it, like, when it came out. It's not
Speaker 2:like it
Speaker 1:was a hidden gem.
Speaker 2:It did. You know what
Speaker 1:It's called Hereditary, by
Speaker 2:the way. Oh, yeah. It's, like, the longest build up to it. And literally, it's gonna be this height, wasn't it? So it'd be like
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Julian Damo, talk about Hereditary. Yeah. But I think what I did I got confused with was an another film with a similar name, which is, again, Florence Pugh, and she is it like a ghost film thing film crew? And she gods. You know, have you seen this one?
Speaker 1:You're not really giving me much to go off. Just Florence,
Speaker 2:keep going. With nails being banged into people, and there's, a kind of horrible thing going on in his house where she's almost like she's become as a medium and
Speaker 1:Oh, is it called Oh No?
Speaker 2:No. It's got a his name, Like Hereditary. Oh, it's gonna
Speaker 1:And it's not Midsommar?
Speaker 2:Not Midsommar. But that's
Speaker 1:what I thinking. To Google it. Let me quickly
Speaker 2:Florence Pugh here. Take this. Florence Pugh. But it's a similar film. My daughter put me onto it and I honestly thought it was Hereditary.
Speaker 2:I'll let you do that quickly. Okay. Florence Malevolent? Malevolent. Oh, god.
Speaker 2:Right? Have you not seen it?
Speaker 1:No. Dude. Okay.
Speaker 2:Right. We'll do that. We'll do that. So I thought it was that film anyway. And I thought, oh, I've seen that film.
Speaker 2:It's good. Really good film. Pretty spooky. And then I started watching it. And I'm like, oh, I didn't.
Speaker 2:Was Tony Colette.
Speaker 1:Oh, and that one is oh. No. No. As in
Speaker 2:as in Hereditary, I'm like, I've not seen this. So then a certain thing happens in the film, and I pause and text you straight away.
Speaker 1:Even though I'd given you the warning, it was still pretty shocking.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I was, like, I was pretty stunned by it and, and thought straight away, this has taken a turn than I expected. Yeah. But amazing. So I guess we need to just yeah.
Speaker 2:So the film is Hereditary. I think pretty early on, we can say that when it comes to Shoopy Decisions, being the the conceit, the theme Of
Speaker 1:our podcast.
Speaker 2:The McGuffin, as Hitchcock would say, McGuffin. Maybe it's my name, whatever. But it's not got many stupid decisions, if any, and it is not funny
Speaker 1:at all. It is as It's very dark. Yeah. You it's one of those films you finish and you feel heavy afterwards. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And Yeah. Yeah. It weighs on you.
Speaker 2:And then for the next two weeks, you and I would sit in the gym together going, when we were supposed to be listening to our jujitsu instructor. So
Speaker 1:you did it first and it absolutely sent me because
Speaker 2:I What's that?
Speaker 1:I hadn't watched no.
Speaker 2:It was
Speaker 1:at the gym. I hadn't watched it again yet, but I knew that that happened because it's just her in the back seat of the car, isn't it? Like
Speaker 2:Oh god. It's just all the time she just sit in the corner of the room just like, you know, this she yeah. Oh, yeah. It starts in the back seat. She's in the back seat with Toni Collette, isn't she?
Speaker 2:And she just makes this noise.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. That's weird. That's a weird kid. Weird kids and horrors always get me, but they Yeah. They have to be a good actor though.
Speaker 1:They do.
Speaker 2:And she really was.
Speaker 1:She nailed it. Yeah. So I think in our other episodes, we start with a under sixty seconds plot summary. So maybe we
Speaker 2:can Your turn.
Speaker 1:Is my turn because it's my film. Mhmm. I am not gonna put a timer on because I have no doubt that I'm gonna be able to see this.
Speaker 2:Go for it.
Speaker 1:So very aptly named, the film is Hereditary, and it starts with the death of a grandmother, which you think is gonna be kind of the focus of the the grief. And then it escalates, and the daughter ends up dying in a pretty horrific way. And this kind of starts to tear the family apart, then starts to lean into more of a a demon cult possession. But I think actually the undertone is about how a lot of the demons are actually is passed on to you by your family. There was mental health and trauma, which is a heavily evident theme.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of that parallel between what's inherited and then actually what is thrust upon the family
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Through evil
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Basically.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. I think yeah. I didn't time it, but it felt about right.
Speaker 1:Yeah? Yeah. I think so.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The danger is of course you wanna explain everything like I do all the time and it ends up being an hour.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's not then a summary.
Speaker 2:It's not then, you're right. In fact, when I used to sit exams, quite often that was the feedback I got was, you know Too
Speaker 1:much waffle.
Speaker 2:Too much waffle. Yeah. So right. Okay. Right.
Speaker 2:So bearing in mind, we haven't got many stupid decisions to talk about because they're kinda aren't
Speaker 1:No. Probably just gonna unpick kind of what happens and also there's a couple of, like, things that you only realize afterwards as well, which would be cool to talk about. So Yeah. The film starts with the funeral of who is the mom? Ellen.
Speaker 1:Ellen. And the family is four people. So you've got Annie, who's the mother, Steve's the father, Peter's the son, and Charlie is the younger daughter. Mhmm. And it starts with Annie, like she's giving the eulogy, isn't she?
Speaker 2:She is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And she's saying things like, she's surprised to see so many people at this funeral because her mother was private, secretive, controlling. Like, you're getting the vibe that there was a strained relationship between the two Yeah. From the get go, aren't you?
Speaker 2:You really are. Yes. Yes. She's given this eulogy and you're kind of aware of like a mother daughter relationship that has not been particularly healthy. And it's like you're watching someone who's saying trying to say nice things, I guess, about someone who really they haven't got much nice to say about and then evidently, you know, that that picks up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Almost doesn't seem overly sad about No. The death. It's more like. No.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:What's more, I think, intriguing about that scene is is is Charlie, the daughters, the way that she looks at the dead body of of the grandmother. And straight away, you get this kind of feeling that the grandmother means something means quite a lot to Charlie. There's a relationship, there's a bond between those two that is gonna be revealed. Yeah. But it's kind of weirdly one-sided.
Speaker 2:Not one-sided, but you you realize that the grandmother, there's a a moment very early in the film where it's like, oh, you know, she wanted a boy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Right. That slightly after is it after the funeral?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yes. After the funeral, but it's it becomes apparent that this is part of this relationship of the, you know yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's hard not to give away too much in sequence with this film, isn't it? Because it's all so beautifully, like, wrapped up.
Speaker 1:Crafter. Yeah. But it's it's an open casket, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:Does she touch like a necklace or something?
Speaker 2:Do know what? I again, this is one of the things that I've I've watched I've watched it fairly recently. I know you watched it again fairly recently. I can't there's a bit of me and it might be another film I think of, I it's almost like she takes doesn't she take?
Speaker 1:I feel like she yeah. She touches bit
Speaker 2:of hair or something. She snips some hair or something
Speaker 1:like pigeon.
Speaker 2:That's oh, yeah. She snips a pigeon at some point. Yeah. That's more I can't I can't remember. I feel like there's a there's a film I've definitely seen where someone does take a piece of hair for something later.
Speaker 2:No. No. That's another Demon film, I think. Yeah. But she certainly yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a weird interaction, isn't there? Because the necklace is the Yes. Symbol. The symbol, which becomes like a a thing later that needs a repeating motif.
Speaker 1:Exactly that. And then we also get the foreshadowing to do with the nut allergy as well. Because she's eating a choc a whole chocolate bar, isn't she?
Speaker 2:That chocolate bar hasn't got nuts in it, has it? And then straight away, you were like, well, I'm like, oh.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly that. Then It's
Speaker 2:like when someone coughs in a film, you know they're gonna die of consumption or tuberculosis, don't you?
Speaker 1:Well, like, boulangerie.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, any film, pick a film. Consumption. Just like that. If if if a camera ever does a character that would they're dead.
Speaker 2:At three, they're dead.
Speaker 1:Okay. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Look out for it.
Speaker 1:Oh, I will. Look out for it. Then I think it cuts back to the house.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Undertone that people, you know, it's they all they all feel like they're supposed to be sad, but none of them are that sad. No. It's kind of it, isn't it? Like, even I think the mum even says, like, I feel like I should be more sad. And the husband's like, no, everyone does it in their own time kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Like Gabriel Byrne in this film, is he what does he play? Is he a psychologist? Is that his job? Or is it ever really like shown what his job is?
Speaker 2:But he seems to be But he's always saying like he's quite a lot of affirmations and he's always kinda like, oh, you know, is expected or you you Validating. Right. All the time, which is very nice. Actually, he he's quite a nice guy.
Speaker 1:He
Speaker 2:is. I keep expecting him to be an asshole and one of the reasons why everything was going so bad, but all the way through actually, he's quite
Speaker 1:supportive Very understanding.
Speaker 2:Actually, obviously, kind of has a bit much and ends up boozing a lot and stuff. Yeah. You know, I would do the same, I imagine. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, she's not grieving in the way that she feels she should and the relationship with her mother obviously is
Speaker 1:But that further emphasizes that the relationship wasn't particularly close because she's not sad that her mom's dead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, That's right. Yes. She's kind of processing it.
Speaker 1:And then she's talking to Charlie who seems more sad
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Than she is. And we're kind of she even says you were grandma's favorite, doesn't she? Yeah. And I think that's where it comes in that she's like, she wanted me to be a boy, or she said that
Speaker 2:I should have been a boy. Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 1:But then Annie also says, you know, she wouldn't even let me feed you. Yes. She was very possessive of you. So you're getting this weird especially as this is the younger daughter. So, like, grandma could have been like this about the older son Yep.
Speaker 1:But wasn't for whatever reason, which is weird.
Speaker 2:And then, like, that kind of plays itself out because the the older son oh my gosh. What's his name in the film? Peter. Peter. My my son's called Peter.
Speaker 2:Conflict the two. But he's definitely got this kind of sense of there's something about him that constantly he feels less than he should be Mhmm. Or he's marginalized in some way. And then I guess you get that thing that, like, Charlie's the favorite
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whereas Peter's been overlooked for some time.
Speaker 1:Which I think, to the naked eye, you wouldn't think she or you think she's the favorite because she's different. It's almost like they're giving her special attention because she's socially withdrawn Yes. And makes weird noises Yeah. Isn't doesn't really engage much. Always I think I get the impression she always wears the same outfit.
Speaker 1:You know, like Yeah. Yeah. Baggy clothes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like a fleece and a yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I imagine it's sort of that extra special attention because she doesn't fit in kind of thing. So he's probably like, I should get more attention because I am making effort and I am doing all these things.
Speaker 2:I think that's a dynamic that plays out in real life, and that's why one of these things about the film is that I think it's so good in that way is that if you have a child that has more requires more attention or needs than the other, the other child, there's always that play when you're a parent of feeling a little bit like there's always that this guilt, think, that goes You don't have
Speaker 1:to get the balance almost.
Speaker 2:Exactly. You're aware that there is one child that you're having to accommodate a lot of things for and and organize around, like peanut allergies, like, you know, neurodivergence. And you got another child that's seemingly normal.
Speaker 1:Neurotypical.
Speaker 2:Neurotypical. Yeah. Thank you. Nice catch, Lily. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And but but obviously, they may be like, oh, where do I fit into all this?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And it's the classic, you're not getting attention for being good, you may as well do something bad.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because that any attention is good at is what's it? Even negative reinforcement is reinforcement kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And then it kind of feeds into that. He's, you know, the older son and should be responsible, and then he's smoking weed. Yeah. And which is also weird because he, like, smokes like a bong in his room as if, like, it wouldn't stink so bad.
Speaker 2:I guess, you know, the, you know, the the film's fairly, like, adult in the way that and again, like Ariasthan is a director, I don't think he would have thought for a second that I think it's more the fact that he just doesn't get mentioned. Like, why would you bring it up when I used to smoke in my bedroom, and my mom knew I smoked, my stepdad knew I smoked, my brother knew I smoked, but when my parents came in the room with it like the fill ashtray, I would look at them dead in the eye and say, yeah, it's my brother. Oh, and all my friends smoke as well and my brother smokes. Not me, but I know that my parents are just like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Alright. Wasn't worth the fight. Exactly. Okay.
Speaker 2:Because you don't want another screaming match, you know. So maybe that's part of it. So they're just like, well, let that one go.
Speaker 1:Okay. You've rationalized that. Okay.
Speaker 2:Maybe. Maybe.
Speaker 1:But also, I guess grandma just died and maybe they can't you pick your battles, don't you?
Speaker 2:You do.
Speaker 1:And she wants family to thing. Right? Smoke yes. If he wants to smoke a bong for his grief, then fine.
Speaker 2:He does smoke continuously throughout the film though,
Speaker 1:doesn't he? But that's sort of our anticipation that something is bound to go wrong because of that, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah. At some point. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. So where are we at? We know that something up with Charlie. Her relationship with her grandmother is, a lot closer than,
Speaker 1:you Anyone else.
Speaker 2:Than anyone else. Is there some insinuation with the whole, you know, like, not being very funny about her feeding? Is there some insinuation that, the grandmother okay. So let let's talk about, Toni Collette, the mother. Because her thing, weirdly, extraordinary, is the making of dioramas.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Right? Miniature versions. But one thing that she does quite quickly is she has a diorama that she's been creating of her grandmother in bed. And then is it that the grandmother is feeding Charlie or something and Toni Collette, the mother, is kind of not there's some one of the dioramas very early on is is is some is it an awkward interaction with the grandmother Okay. The mother and and Charlie.
Speaker 2:And then she kind of Toni Collette kind of looks at that diorama that she's created and then pushes it away Okay. You've picked up yeah.
Speaker 1:You've picked up on something that I haven't noticed.
Speaker 2:Okay. I
Speaker 1:it. Must need to go back to that now.
Speaker 2:Well, there's something. This film has so much going on.
Speaker 1:There are so many small little bits. Yeah. Like
Speaker 2:And literally, because you at one point, you're looking at this thing, like, Toni Collette is oh, god. What's her name in the film? I can't call. Annie. Right?
Speaker 2:So she's kind of literally building these tiny sets for a company or for a person. She's like Yeah. Yeah. But it's like I thought when I watched it, oh, this is one of those weird control things where, like, she's constructing Yeah. You know, like life as it should be
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because the whirlwind's outside of that. So I thought it was more or more about that, but it appears that and we find this later on when she builds a very particular diorama Yeah. That actually it may be some kind of coping mechanism.
Speaker 1:Processes events that have happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Super. Also about regaining I think it is a little bit about control. Mhmm. It's regaining, like, control over the narrative, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Or, like, control of of the, yeah, the situation, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I I I think so. But it's you see things within those dioramas that's creating where you're now being shown something where it would take too much exposition in the film to tell you. Yes. You look at that going, oh, that's that's what the real thing is.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's the thing we need to look at and go, that's the problem. That's part of the root of Annie's problem with her mother.
Speaker 1:And it's like she's been hired to make these for, like, a museum or a gallery.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yet a lot of it is her family. So is that what she's supposed to be doing or is that just what she does?
Speaker 2:Think that's that's that's the dilemma. Again, like, know, if it on a personal thing, it's like, you know, I have a job as in me, Damien has a job, and I do the job. But quite a lot of the time in my mind, I'm thinking about like these vanity projects, like other things I wanna do. There's like that kind of creative outlet. So sometimes I'm like, no, I've gotta put that to one side because I've gotta do the paid work first and then do the thing I want to do.
Speaker 2:And it's always a battle depending, I guess, how I'm feeling as to, oh, no. Actually, I really wanna work on my own thing. Yeah. No. No.
Speaker 2:No. I gotta focus on that. So you're right. I think it's a battle between the paid job and then the phone calls coming in like, we know your mom's just died, so we're not being super pushy about it. But where
Speaker 1:where are
Speaker 2:you with the project?
Speaker 1:I guess this also links well to, like, artistic hobbies as well or vocations Mhmm. Still being an outlet. Like, for example, her mom's just decided she feels able to go and do that job. Yeah. Whereas for example, like, I work for a mental health charity.
Speaker 1:I had someone die, wouldn't I go to work and be able to engage with that. Whereas because it's like a creative outlet, she's still getting something from that.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah. It's like well, I guess it's therapy and, you know, art therapy as well and then that to be quite blunt about it, I suppose. But the idea that I mean, so I would throw myself into playing like my guitar or something when when something happens in my life, I'm like, oh my you know, I need to release something, grab a guitar and then I process everything through that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I guess in the same way she did that and you'd probably
Speaker 1:Channeling your energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But Yeah. That's But then that comes back to again, is she using it as an outlet to cope or is it that she's so unbothered by her mom dying that she can go back to work? Right.
Speaker 2:There is the Balance. Because even Gabriel Burn, like her husband, when he kind of walks up and he sees a there's quite a lot of him looking at what she's building or doing through a doorway. He rarely seems to step into her domain and it's very much her domain. I mean, there's one time when he does and then he sees what she's really been putting together and it's like, But there's quite a lot of that where even he seems mildly surprised that she is just kind of getting on with her job. But again, he gives her all that space because he seems to be the kind of person who's, I'll just give you space, let you do your thing.
Speaker 2:Anyway, yeah. One of the main points of it is that she does build these and they are miniature. They really are. She's got all their lenses and stuff and just tiny little Everything is perfect but tiny. And maybe that's again like an allegory or I always get metaphor and allegory mixed up.
Speaker 2:Like, know, like you say, as control, if she's putting these tiny things together bit by bit by bit, then there is control in that. That's that's the perfect version
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Of what life should look like. Yes. But then when you get to the kitchen table, it's not That's not how it looks.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And that's without us knowing any of the past of the family at this point either.
Speaker 1:So because as more becomes uncovered later on, like, she's got some issues too.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So I do think it's worth mentioning that the family has a tree house.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And after the funeral and this conversation, like, Annie's tucked Charlie into bed, Charlie does go and sleep in the tree house.
Speaker 2:He does.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Which the dad even he comes he's looking for her, isn't he? And then he finds her in there and he's like, it's freezing out here. Like, what are you doing? But she likes she finds solace in this tree house.
Speaker 1:Comforting. But that's all that sort of you don't get any more information other than that, but I think it's worth mentioning.
Speaker 2:Definitely. And and also, like, if color is important in film, and I think someone like Ariaster would does use color Mhmm. Is that do remember how red the light is? Yes. Always like a really vivid I know it's like a heat lamp because it's probably cold out there.
Speaker 2:But every time you get a long shot of that tree house is you're looking at a very red possibly may like connotations or something quite demonic or danger. Red is the color of
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Satan and hell and
Speaker 2:Yeah. Danger and all that. So maybe the end of But it is unusually bright red in it. But, yeah, the tree house is important because it comes up a few times, isn't it? Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So where do you wanna go? Do you wanna go to what happens to Charlie?
Speaker 1:I think we have to. Yeah. That then unfolds the rest of the film, doesn't it? Yeah. The only thing as well, just whilst I should have piggybacked off it when we were talking about art as well, is that Charlie has notebooks that she draws pictures in
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Which are sometimes a bit unsettling,
Speaker 2:is it? Yeah. Much of the time, I'd say.
Speaker 1:Because she becomes she's in the classroom and a a bird flies into the window.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:And again, this just foreshadowing, isn't it, about death, I imagine.
Speaker 2:It's weird that it happens. The weird that the bird flies into the window
Speaker 1:And no one else seems to pay any attention, I think, is what's weird.
Speaker 2:Is it.
Speaker 1:Except Charlie.
Speaker 2:That's it. She kind of she does it. She she nods it, but then her attention is focused very much on a pair of scissors in a pot on the teacher's desk.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And that straight away you're you're like, oh. Yeah. What does that mean? Yeah. But you find out later.
Speaker 1:Well, she goes straight outside, doesn't she? Yeah. And she very discreetly cuts the head off the pigeon and keeps it. And then she does later draw a picture of it
Speaker 2:She does. In her book. She does. And she also has a thing when she's walking outside in the like, outside the school, she's eating another chocolate bar.
Speaker 1:And they're, like, thick. I don't know why that's
Speaker 2:They're, like, chunky. Is it
Speaker 1:because it makes her look a bit strange? Like
Speaker 2:I don't know. Is there some relevance to her having, like, chunky chocolate bars?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I think it just makes her look a bit yeah. Like, why the chocolate? I guess I guess they're trying to what's the word? Prepare you for the fact she obviously likes sweet stuff Yes.
Speaker 1:Chocolate stuff.
Speaker 2:Yes. Oh, yes. I guess she loves chocolate.
Speaker 1:But still, I don't know why it needed to be so ostentatious.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's just part of it. Maybe I mean, think you're probably absolutely right. It's that it's like the girl likes chocolate. And later on that becomes and you've been told about the peanut things. You kinda know what's what's gonna come anyway in the form of a big chocolate cake later on.
Speaker 2:God.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So do you wanna go from here and explain what happens then?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sure. I I think that there's like this really fascinating interaction again with the son with Peter. He wants to go to a party after school for the age old reason that there's a girl there who he fancies. Yes.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 1:Who have you seen him? He's staring at her ass in the classroom.
Speaker 2:Yes. That's right. He's seen it. And and I think he's had some weird interaction with her at some point, and it's all very kinda like American high school teenage interaction that you'd expect from a choice.
Speaker 1:Does the teacher call him out as well? Like, the girl answers the question perfectly and then the teacher calls on him, oh, he's texting. He's arranging the party.
Speaker 2:That's right. God, yeah. There's so many things that I Yeah. A lot that goes on this film, lot of little things. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think you're right.
Speaker 1:And she turns around, she's like That's right. You're an idiot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Which again. So he's a teenage boy, he has needs. So he wants to go to the party. So he goes says to his mom, can I borrow the car?
Speaker 2:And rather than be like, yeah, sure. Make sure you're back before blah blah blah. Annie gets on this real straight away, she's like, know, blah blah blah blah, you gotta take your sister. And straight away, I'm like, oh, that's a difficult situation to be in. And it's really horrible that she's done that to him because I think at some point, she knows damn well that Charlie does not wanna go to a party.
Speaker 2:No. Charlie's not a party girl. Mm-mm. She's a chalky, pitch and snipping Artistic. Artistic
Speaker 1:Loner.
Speaker 2:Kind of girl, right? So the mum's deliberately like, Peter, no, you got And then she drags out Charlie. She's like, Charlie, you wanna go to party? And then Peter's like, she doesn't even wanna go and you take her, you go. Obviously because of what happens later, later, later, that guilt making your daughter go to a party that she never wanted to go and then later But what purpose?
Speaker 2:It was like Oh, I think, right. I mean, honestly, I think part of it is Annie wants I think that she has a problem with her son because let's right. Again, it comes up late, but she didn't want a child. Remember?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:She didn't want Peter. So I think there's always that resentment there. And then you got a child who does not fit in. So when you see an opportunity for that child to go to a party or to socialize in some way, you almost force the issue. Like, you are going, you are gonna be normal.
Speaker 2:You are gonna go to a normal party. You are gonna like experience other people in this environment. You're not gonna sit at home and draw on your notepad and go all the time. So I think a lot of it is that. I and again, the grandmother's just died with stuff, these emotions going on.
Speaker 1:I think that's probably it, isn't it? She doesn't want her to feel isolated because she knows she was closest to the grandma. And she's like, if we can get her out, maybe she'll get over it quicker. Yeah. Even though she's how many years below?
Speaker 1:Like, they're not gonna be her friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's not that kind of teenage party is not the sort of place you wanna send your daughter who is No. What, let's say four, five years younger than Peter. Yeah. Not the right environment
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:At all. You wanna take what happens at the party?
Speaker 1:Sure. K. And I think it sets you into a although you're on edge because you know she doesn't wanna go, he's driving. So you're like, okay. At least there's not gonna be drink driving.
Speaker 1:But that was what I thought. I was like, oh, okay. We're safe. He's not drinking. They turn up at the party and it's rowdy.
Speaker 1:Yes. Isn't it? There's different there's drinking. There's I feel feel like there's different station setup. Is that like beer pong?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then there's this kitchen side that's just absolutely covered in nuts. Chop chop chop chop Chop in them. Yeah. Like, what bunch of teenagers embellishes their cake with with such bougie nuts?
Speaker 2:When I first watched it, I thought, oh, she's chopping up weed. They could she's gonna make brownies.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that Charlie's gonna get absolutely annihilated
Speaker 1:by that.
Speaker 2:And then there's gonna be, like, she'll suddenly exhibits and powers like Carrie style. Oh. Like, start, like, blowing people up or something. That's what that's what I I thought. And then it turns out they were nuts.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So they get to the party. He says, you know, go off by yourself. She's literally like, not a chance. I don't wanna be by myself.
Speaker 1:And he's thinking, oh, fuck's sake. And then he sees this glorious chocolate cake. And has the girl come over at this point to say, like, do you wanna come
Speaker 2:because he said he's got like a bag of weed, isn't he?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:So he's trying to impress her with his bag of weed.
Speaker 1:He's got a bag of weed and she's like, okay, let's go off privately.
Speaker 2:This is yeah. This is the sad one of the saddest things that happens to Peter, isn't it? Is that it's not a problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There's a whole group of them. It's a very
Speaker 2:This is a a boy's worst nightmare about to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're gonna
Speaker 2:get some alone time. And then
Speaker 1:So he sees this chocolate cake. He's like, just go get some chocolate cake. She's like, I don't wanna go over. They won't give it to me. He's like, yeah, they will.
Speaker 1:Like, just ask and they'll give you a piece. So he sends her off. Off she goes. He goes off to this room where he thinks he's gonna be alone smoking a zoo with this girl. It's a whole group of people.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think one of them's maybe her boyfriend as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Maybe. And it's they've they've got a bong. That was the selling point. So you're like, okay.
Speaker 1:So he's not drinking, but he's about to get high as fuck. Yeah. And he does. He proceeds to hit hit the bong. Yes.
Speaker 1:Doesn't he?
Speaker 2:He does.
Speaker 1:And and then it cuts back to Charlie who's had the cake. And she's She then is getting a drink because she's you can see that she's struggling with her throat. And I think she then quite casually comes into the bedroom, doesn't she? She's not panicking at this point. No.
Speaker 1:She's not. She's just like, I can't breathe.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And he It's like annoying little sister comes in at that point. Right? You don't really know there's anything wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that's I think the group have even said, like, oh, is that your sister? Yeah. And he's like, yep. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And
Speaker 1:she's like, I can't breathe. And he does twig, like, quick, doesn't he? He sort of he picks her up and he carries her back to the car.
Speaker 2:That's a scene, isn't it? Where he's like,
Speaker 1:knows. So she hasn't got the EpiPen. Yeah. They need to go to hospital, like, straight away.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But they seem to be in middle of nowhere as well, so I would be curious to know I wonder if they far away the hospital is.
Speaker 2:I was thinking, like, are they in, like, Utah or somewhere, like, really remote? Yeah. Because it is quite a remote
Speaker 1:because anaphylaxis kicks in fast when you're that allergic
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:To something. Yeah. And so she's starting to get, like, really blotchy. Her throat's closing up. He's driving as fast as he can.
Speaker 1:She's, like, on the back seat, and then she starts, kicking, doesn't she? She's suffocating.
Speaker 2:Noise like
Speaker 1:Yeah. And she opens the car window because she can't breathe, wants to get some air. She sticks her head out. Exactly exactly like that. Yes.
Speaker 1:It's a bit coughing, but And then he sees a deer in the road, swerves to miss the deer, and Charlie gets decapitated by a lamp post. Yeah. But you don't you don't see it. I don't you hear the thud. Oh,
Speaker 2:it yeah.
Speaker 1:And he just stop it stops, and it's just him in the front seat, like
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Looking horrified.
Speaker 2:Lily, at this point, pause. So
Speaker 1:Charlie's head just
Speaker 2:came off. Charlie's head just came off. Send. Play.
Speaker 1:Aren't you glad that I gave you a spoiler for that?
Speaker 2:Again, I've I didn't honestly, I didn't it just wasn't there in my head at all. When it happened, it was a complete surprise. And I'm like, this film has just pivoted. Yeah. Massive.
Speaker 2:I thought this film was all about Charlie.
Speaker 1:That's what I was just about to say is you definitely did not think she was gonna die. You thought she was gonna be the one that was
Speaker 2:Well, she'd been enough.
Speaker 1:Gonna get possessed. Yeah.
Speaker 2:At the end, you know, like Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And instead, it's like, oh, shit. Okay. This film is not about what I thought it was gonna be about. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's taken a turn.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Awful. I I
Speaker 1:think how the whole thing plays out. I don't know if you noticed, but on the lamppost of which took her head off is the symbol.
Speaker 2:I I noticed only later on when I watched a YouTube video helping me see the things I missed. What
Speaker 1:someone else did.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay. Somewhere is that you?
Speaker 1:No. Actually, was Dan.
Speaker 2:Oh, was it Dan? Right. Dan likes to do it, doesn't he? He likes to just like
Speaker 1:He became slightly obsessed with this film actually more
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:More than me.
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 1:I was like, think you should go on the podcast and talk about this film because I feel like a fraud. We
Speaker 2:keep this is the third time now we say we should bring Dan on, but we will bring Dan on. Okay. I think as soon as we find our feet, like and I understand, like, technologically how to bring another person off.
Speaker 1:I might get made redundant though because he'll come on and actually contribute, Wayne. And I can't steal his stuff if he goes off. So
Speaker 2:No. Lily, you will always be the star of this show.
Speaker 1:Okay. Fine.
Speaker 2:As long as they start demanding a million pounds per episode.
Speaker 1:Maybe not a million.
Speaker 2:So right. So the film turns on its head at that point and the first thing I think is like, oh, no. The mum. Right. Right.
Speaker 1:Because she's forced him to take Charlie. Yeah. Not only has he, you know, been irresponsible, left her on her own, he's then got high Yeah. And then killed her.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, it's all of intents and purposes. He's killed her. She's kinda killed herself in a way. But Toni Collette is the one Annie is the one who has basically made her daughter go.
Speaker 2:But she won't admit that until later in the film when Peter dares to say that, which is a whole scene in itself. Right? But
Speaker 1:I think that next bit of that scene, though, where he he doesn't get out, he doesn't do anything, he just starts driving. Yeah. He gets home. He gets out the car. He goes in.
Speaker 1:You even hear her say, okay. They're back. Yeah. And, like, that parental anxiety you get every time your child goes out to a party.
Speaker 2:I still get it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It never goes away. Yep. And then you're just waiting. He gets in bed and you're waiting.
Speaker 1:You're like, surely not surely not. Like, he's got to. And Annie goes out the next morning. She's gonna go shopping or something like that. She gets to the car.
Speaker 1:You don't see it. You don't see her go to the car. You you just see him Yeah. I think. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And her scream
Speaker 2:The noise that she makes.
Speaker 1:Is, like, guttural.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Proper proper. I went to see Hammonet a while ago.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's in cinema still Yeah. A minute, I think.
Speaker 2:If you get a chance in amazing film. Right? But but there's something that happens in that film where the mother cries in such a way. And again, like, I would relate it to Toni Collette in that scene is that even as a man and even though that person's acting and it's off camera, that noise is just I don't know. You would make you wanna run away.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's awful. Awful. And and of course, Peter hears that his mother.
Speaker 1:And he's like not even responding at this point though, is he?
Speaker 2:He's in shock. Yeah, he's properly in shock. How do you drive through, park the car, go through the door and not go into your parents' room and say, I need to tell you something?
Speaker 1:But also how do you do that? Right, that's what I mean. Is Good way.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, there's no way. So you really feel I I really felt for Peter then. I was just like, your life is over, mate. Know?
Speaker 1:That's what's weird though. Again, stealing this a little bit, but he never gets in trouble. Like, it was manslaughter.
Speaker 2:True. But yeah. You're right. You're right. It was manslaughter.
Speaker 1:And he was high. So that's illegal too.
Speaker 2:I think the the whole thing is that, like, you know when you we watch a film and you think, oh, surely at some point the parents will get involved. But the whole thing is that, of course, they never will. This is something that happens like in isolation. The police never No police. There's nothing.
Speaker 1:It just cuts to the funeral.
Speaker 2:Right. So I think that that that's the one of these things is like the the the remoteness. If it happened in, like, you know, like, Downtown New York, there would be Right. Right? Because it's so remote.
Speaker 2:It's like mid summer again. It's like kind of the idea that that anything that's around you
Speaker 1:It's its own community.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So these
Speaker 1:That remote though. Like, they go to a school and there's a town and and stuff.
Speaker 2:True. True. True. True. But I think like if you soon as you introduce like something like that, the film then changes to something different.
Speaker 2:Of course. And it can't do that in this instance, particularly because and this is so well shrouded. And this film is that ultimately, this is a film about possession, demons, cults, and you still don't know that yet. Mhmm. And it
Speaker 1:will
Speaker 2:bring now a way into the film, and you still don't know for sure that there's something supernatural happening at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I guess it also comes back to even in a family that is, like, heavy on abuse, it's also usually heavy on protecting Yeah. The family within itself
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Hiding the abuse that's going protecting him because even though he's killed the daughter Yeah. He's still that oldest son, and they've already gone through enough. So it's like, let's not go through that too.
Speaker 2:Also, if you get, like, another party coming in and getting involved and asking difficult questions, actually, you start you gotta start giving difficult answers.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:You know? And again, like, you're Annie, this is awfully speculation, like, outside of the film or whatever. But, you know, if someone does come and knock on your door and I'm gonna inspect her so and so, why was she at the party in the first place?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That's the point at which Annie is to hold up her hand sick because I told her she had to go. Yeah. That's not something you're gonna wanna have to
Speaker 1:But that's not a crime.
Speaker 2:It's not a crime. What is a crime is getting high And driving. And driving. But then, yes, sure, that's a crime. But also the fact that she was an anaphylactic shock and he was driving like a maniac, that's almost like, well, anyone would do the same.
Speaker 2:But also, why didn't you call an ambulance? There's so many things you could
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Level at the film where they would change the nature of the film.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I guess in theory, actually, coming back to the theme of our podcast, stupid decision, making her go.
Speaker 2:Number one.
Speaker 1:Not taking her EpiPen. Two. Encouraging her to eat the chocolate cake, which had nuts plastered over it.
Speaker 2:Three.
Speaker 1:Doing a bong hit. Four. Not calling an ambulance and driving her high instead. Five. We've done well there.
Speaker 2:Oh, well, now, of course, we've changed it. What a silly film.
Speaker 1:That's pretty much the only portion of the film that has that that in isolation is the shooter decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. Guess is the catalyst of the whole film.
Speaker 2:It is. It is.
Speaker 1:It had to happen.
Speaker 2:Sudden, we're in a whole different place because now, Annie is going to go and deal with her grief, her real grief now. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because she didn't grieve for her mom, she's grieved. That honestly though, her acting is incredible. Like, you know, she's on the floor, she's rocking back and forth. She's like screaming shorts to die. The you know?
Speaker 2:Oh, god.
Speaker 1:You want to fix it and there's literally nothing you can do. You're just
Speaker 2:can you
Speaker 1:there.
Speaker 2:Then it is like and also you get like the kind of like then you get like a an external shot of, you know, the head is on the floor still covered in in ants. Ants. Oh my god.
Speaker 1:It's so And her eyes like Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you keep you keep cutting to that, like no one's kind of gone back and anyway so you're still very aware that Charlie's head is out there somewhere. It's fucking horrible. It is. But she goes now to a a support group. Right?
Speaker 1:Has the diorama happened?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think it's around this time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. All sort of blends at this point.
Speaker 2:You get yeah. Talk about the diorama because it is rough.
Speaker 1:You talk about it. Go on.
Speaker 2:Okay. So maybe she's dealing with it. Maybe she's this is just now her mania. But now Annie begins to build a new diorama and fucks off of her job basically. And she builds a diorama of a car, a road, a telegraph pole, a little body and a head, which is like, you're like, okay, Annie?
Speaker 2:And the husband. As Michael Jackson would say, Annie, are you okay? No. Not really.
Speaker 1:You've been hit by a lamppost.
Speaker 2:Not a smooth criminal, but a lamppost.
Speaker 1:But the husband's like,
Speaker 2:what the fuck? Even now, he's like, my wife's seen so much shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Because he's been very supportive.
Speaker 2:Need to rewind something because way, way, way, way, way, way back, he gets the phone call from the the cemetery saying
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:The grandmother's grave has been
Speaker 1:Dug up.
Speaker 2:Dug up, defaced, desecrated. Yes. This becomes important
Speaker 1:Later on.
Speaker 2:Now, really. Yeah. Because when he's seen the diorama and shit, now she's gone to a support group to deal with her grief.
Speaker 1:And I don't know if that happens before Charlie dies or after.
Speaker 2:Can't remember. Oh, oh, before. What's the what's the graveyard thing? Yeah. Oh, that's really quick.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:That happens not long after they get home. He's gone upstairs to see her building a diorama and then he gets the call.
Speaker 1:And also something we forgot to mention was I think Charlie's still alive when this happens as well. When she's in her studio and the grandma's in the
Speaker 2:In the corner.
Speaker 1:And it's the most subtle scare because it's not a jump scare, but it makes you go, ugh.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You're like, oh, what what is that? Yeah. Why is she there? So there are hints of supernatural.
Speaker 1:Because she even comes into bed, doesn't she? And she's like, I just scared myself.
Speaker 2:But then yeah. But then he's like, it's not unusual Yeah. To see, you know, like hallucinations of right. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I see dead people all the time. It's been an accident. So, right.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna get on the support group now because the support group is where you meet the lovely Joan. Yes. Super supportive.
Speaker 1:Doesn't go in the first time, does she? She stays in her car Yeah. And Joan comes over and pretends that she knows her from something else, I thought.
Speaker 2:It's something I can't again, she goes to one she go because there's a couple of bad things that happen. No. She goes to the support group because of her grandmother, doesn't she? She sits down for that one session because of her grandmother.
Speaker 1:Yes. She's like, oh,
Speaker 2:well, I don't feel the but no. Oh, shit. Lily, this is the Guinness Oh
Speaker 1:my god.
Speaker 2:Because she brings up all this stuff about her grandmother. And then she says, this is Annie saying, yeah. So I used to sleepwalk. Do you remember this? And I once carried, I I think
Speaker 1:It was petrol.
Speaker 2:Petrol, light fluid or
Speaker 1:that early on, is it?
Speaker 2:No. Because she says did she say that? What that one of reasons we like, she didn't get on with her sun ray.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Because she woke up and she'd covered them in petrol and was about to strike a match. Yeah. But he won't no. She's telling that to Joan, I think, when they're
Speaker 2:It's a support group she's she's saying it to because they're all like and you're thinking, Annie's got problems.
Speaker 1:Okay. Maybe they do.
Speaker 2:Whichever way it happens Okay. You know that Annie, a, sleeps, walk, sleep walks,
Speaker 1:Mental b instability. Because this is where it comes into, I didn't want my son.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And he obviously was picking up on an energy from me, potentially even something like postnatal depression. She doesn't say that, but something where she hasn't bonded with him. Yeah. And then she's yeah. Sleepwalks, and then she's woken up.
Speaker 1:They're all soaking wet.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is it just those two yes. She has a dream where
Speaker 2:it's one of them. That's right.
Speaker 1:This yeah. She's standing over him. They're covered in petrol, and she's literally about to strike the match, and he's going, like, mom, what
Speaker 2:are you doing? Yeah. And he's like at some point, he's like, why are you trying to hurt me? Why are you trying to kill me?
Speaker 1:That's not until later.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's a scene, ain't it? Fucking hell.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So we learn that it seems like there's some mental illness being passed down
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Throughout the family.
Speaker 2:Hereditary.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yes. So then she meets Joan.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure because she's in her car and she like doesn't wanna go in and Joan gives her her number.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I can't I think that's after the daughter. Yeah. Right. That's the that's the Because
Speaker 1:she's like, I lost a son.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah. She's the way she says it. So I like, I lost the son. And then she's good to the card.
Speaker 2:She's like, I feel so silly doing this but here's my number, call me anytime. Yeah. That's the Rosemary's baby moment where it's like, oh, you just got your hooks in. But it's so subtly done. Yes.
Speaker 2:Even I'm thinking, oh, Joan seems nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah. She does. What a lovely lady Joan is. What a lovely lady. And then she ends up going to her house.
Speaker 2:She does. And he goes to Joan's house.
Speaker 1:Yes. And
Speaker 2:But for the first time. The second time is a little different, but the first time
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:She sees a nice rug.
Speaker 1:I was about to say there's something to do with a rug.
Speaker 2:Yeah. She's like, oh, Joan, my mom used to make rugs like this. Yes. And then Joan's like obviously, Joan, we know that Joan's made a mistake at that point. And she's like, oh, that that that seems that that that's a coincidence.
Speaker 2:Blah blah blah. You know, I've had this for ages. Yeah. She kinda brushes over it and then she brings Annie into her house.
Speaker 1:What did they do the first time they're together?
Speaker 2:They just have a cup of tea and a little chat about grief, definitely.
Speaker 1:Okay. So
Speaker 2:it's not until the next time.
Speaker 1:She's like, she's ready for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But she makes her in remember Joan accidentally meets her in a car park? Yes. And then she's like, oh, Annie.
Speaker 1:Haven't seen you in ages. I do. I've actually been enlightened. I went and met this woman who taught me some magic.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And now I feel so much better and all my grief has gone away.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I'll show you how. Come around. It's actually like a groomer. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've got sweets in my car.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I've got a puppy. You're actually my puppy. But I mean, I know we're skipping through this a little bit, but some of the the things that I think we need to sort of, like, move to that almost like the final act after this. But this is important because Joan says Joan, lovely lady, she's like, come talk to me about the whole thing because I've got over it.
Speaker 2:I I yeah. I've been shown a way to do with my grief. Yes. And then there's this wicked scene in Joan's. Again, seemingly nice apartment.
Speaker 2:Right? Old fashioned. But Old fashioned, but, you know
Speaker 1:Old lady chic.
Speaker 2:Doily situation maybe and some nice you know? But she shows Annie something which changes Annie and Annie's perception of reality, like, significantly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The seance.
Speaker 2:The seance. Yeah. The seance. Yeah. So And the words.
Speaker 1:Oh, the Latin. Yeah. Yeah. Was there a book or did she just speak it? She must write it down somewhere for Annie to repeat it later on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because she gives Annie the words, doesn't she? Yeah.
Speaker 1:So they sit down at a table. She says it's her is it her grandson that died?
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:I want to say. Yeah. Can't remember what
Speaker 2:his name was. Then people could tell us we're wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But, yeah, he's very little. And she says she's managed to reach out and talk to him. And Annie's like, no, mate. You're fucking mental.
Speaker 1:Isn't believing it. Yeah. But she stays. And it's with the glass, isn't it? Yeah.
Speaker 1:The glass moves. Yeah. And stuff starts moving and then there's I think it's the chalk. Yes. There's a chalkboard.
Speaker 2:It's when because like, I don't know. Have you done stances before?
Speaker 1:Only like in sleepovers when I was like year seven.
Speaker 2:Me too. Yeah. But you're always aware that someone's like pushing
Speaker 1:Moving it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, it's like, you know, do you fancy me? Yes. Whatever.
Speaker 1:No. No.
Speaker 2:But then when the chore when the words start right themselves
Speaker 1:There's no disputing. Okay. But that's something else, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Something has entered the room.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And Annie is, like, losing it. Like, she's crying. She's in bits. And Joan is saying, you know, there's nothing to be scared of. This is all absolutely fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You get to talk to your loved one again, and it's all good.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And you know that they're safe and not hurting and Yeah. And all of that stuff. Yeah. And then does she pass Annie this stuff?
Speaker 1:Because Annie seems reluctant. Annie seems not sold on it. For like, she believes it's happened.
Speaker 2:She just freaked her out so badly.
Speaker 1:That's what I mean. She doesn't, like, leave being, okay, I'm gonna go do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But I don't know if it's that point that Joan does kinda, like, stuff her with, like, a couple of candles and these these words and, you know, like, you know, take it. A bit like, like a Jehovah's Witness gives you a copy of The Watchtower whether you want it or not. Yeah. You know, it's like I think I think that's what happens.
Speaker 2:But regardless, Annie is now aware that there is a way to potentially communicate with the beheaded Charlie Yep. And that she has the means to do that now.
Speaker 1:When she comes home, she tries it by herself first And it works.
Speaker 2:It works.
Speaker 1:She thinks it's Charlie. Right?
Speaker 2:Then Peter and her husband
Speaker 1:come home. No. She wakes them up. She forces them.
Speaker 2:She's super like
Speaker 1:Because that's why he's freaked out. Because he's like, I don't want to. I don't want to. She's like, I won't hurt you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Peter is losing his mind, isn't he? And the husband for the first time is like, I'm not doing this shit with you. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:He's really had enough.
Speaker 1:And have we had the bit with Peter at school when they're under the bleachers and he does the bong and then he just starts freaking the fuck out?
Speaker 2:Yeah. He does. In fact, a couple of things have happened to Peter at this point, haven't they? Because there's that one where
Speaker 1:It is following him slightly and we've sort of
Speaker 2:And he start his throat's bad and he's doing he can't breathe.
Speaker 1:As if it's like Charlie. Like Charlie. Couldn't breathe. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then her his mates are like, you alright? And he's like, and then
Speaker 1:he's He's like, hold my hand. Yeah. It's quite sad.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He's really quite and he's having a rough time because has the scene happened with Peter yet at school where The classroom. He shows he's now see signs of
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I think that happens after this that must happen after
Speaker 2:the Let's let's say that's the case because that's a really amazing and scary scene.
Speaker 1:Yes. So she wakes them up. She's like, you need to come down. I found a way to talk to Charlie. Like, just do this.
Speaker 1:Just trust me. Just listen to me. Really like selling it, isn't she? Because he's the husband is like, no, you're you're traumatizing Peter. He's already traumatized enough, like enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But she manages to convince him. She says the Latin, they do the glass. Yep. Everything sort of ticks over in the same way, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:It does. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then does something smash? I feel like a glass smashes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like that. Kind of things begin to kick off, don't they?
Speaker 1:Because Peter's like bawling.
Speaker 2:He's in bits
Speaker 1:and the husband is like, we're done.
Speaker 2:Awful. Awful. And and yeah. I mean, then doesn't someone speak in Charlie's voice? Because Charlie is now suddenly possessing somebody.
Speaker 1:Oh, my mom. Annie.
Speaker 2:Annie. And she's like, what's going on? What's happening? Oh my god, it's freaky as fuck,
Speaker 1:It's isn't
Speaker 2:proper good though. That's where you're
Speaker 1:like, okay, this
Speaker 2:is a real horror.
Speaker 1:Something like that. Where am I? I can't
Speaker 2:see or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's dark maybe.
Speaker 2:And then you're like, oh no, this spirit is now in your house.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's like You've let it in.
Speaker 2:Yeah. This is it now. You guys are
Speaker 1:Done. Proper. Like, that was the beginning of the end, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:It really was.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's just like that's I mean, the fact that Charlie's had her head locked off is like, yeah, that's that's obviously that's life ending and and everything else, but it now this is like
Speaker 1:That was life ending whereas this is demon starting.
Speaker 2:We're in horror now. Yeah. We're in proper demonic horror zone.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so then after that, she continues to sort of spiral, doesn't she? And, like, lose her mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Husband, I don't think we see
Speaker 2:Husband is a a scene where he's at work and he's poured himself a pretty stiff whiskey or something. Yeah. He's beginning To crumble. To crumble and starting to drink and starting to lose faith in his family unit Yeah. Surviving this.
Speaker 1:And then we see a bit more of Peter at school. And he's in his classroom, and he looks in the window. Has Joan turned
Speaker 2:up at his school yet? Or is that another scene?
Speaker 1:The one where she's waving across the car park.
Speaker 2:She says something very particular to him, if that is before he does this thing. I think it's before.
Speaker 1:What does she say?
Speaker 2:She says, like, basically, she's casting something out of Peter. She says but she knows she's trying to cast Peter out. Like, Joan is standing across the road and she's pointing at Peter and she's shouting. It's when, like, not like exit, but it's a weird like exit.
Speaker 1:Expel you or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Expel you from Peter or Peter. We expel and he's just like looking at her like, that's a weird lady. But he's saying he's kinda troubled.
Speaker 1:There's also been another random woman like waving maybe that was when Charlie was alive, but another random woman just, like, waving across the car park.
Speaker 2:I think what you're seeing is, like
Speaker 1:The cult.
Speaker 2:The cult members.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. You do start to Around.
Speaker 2:Pop up Yeah.
Speaker 1:In the background a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Because we You get the impression that it's kinda, like, closing in. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Was quite wide. Yeah. And now once the seance has happened, it's like, no, you've opened the gate and now they're all coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You've you've let the wrong ones in.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And again, that's that roam Rosemary baby thing again, that Roman Polansky thing about, like, the paranoia of that. Like, you think it's bad, but it's way worse than you could possibly imagine. And then we're gonna get to the bit where Peter's sitting in the classroom. And he looks in there.
Speaker 2:He looks, yeah, in the cabinet. Cabinet. Yeah. And oh, shit. Can I rewind a little bit?
Speaker 2:One thing and then like another thing. This is like really important because there's this massive row between Peter, his mom, and the dad. And the dad's very comforting towards Peter. But they for the first time
Speaker 1:At the dinner table.
Speaker 2:And she's like kicking off about, you know, like and she says something very particular to Peter. She says, you're always just like leering at me. You're smug. You got this smug look on your face and not are you thinking, no, he hasn't. He hasn't ever Yeah.
Speaker 2:Done that. But her perception is that he is doing that. Yeah. Then in the classroom, he looks in the cabinet and sees the class and he's just looking like normal, slightly scared, sad Peter, but leering back at him Yeah. As himself.
Speaker 1:Oh, shit.
Speaker 2:Remember that? Yeah. It's that real horrible, like
Speaker 1:It's that horror horror smile, isn't it? Whereas but also, like, that dinner table bit, you know, her saying, like, you're doing this, you're leering at me, that, you know, like abusive parent gaslighting.
Speaker 2:Oh, totally. That's what
Speaker 1:I thought. Familial trauma.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm like, I'll leave the poor kid alone. And then he throws back at her and says, right, mom, you you made her go to the party. I didn't want her to go. You made her.
Speaker 2:It's your fault. She's dead. That's the first time and she's like, how
Speaker 1:fucking dead? But the dad's like enough, both
Speaker 2:of you. He's like enough and then he puts his hand on Peter's hand like, son, you okay? This is rough but you okay? And which shows the diff because actually, this happens a lot now where the father and Peter begin to kind of or the father becomes the father the father the father mind father becomes very protective of a Peter, doesn't
Speaker 1:he? Yeah.
Speaker 2:He's like
Speaker 1:Which surprised me because you'd think the son murdering your daughter would make both parents Sure. He's pretty
Speaker 2:mad at you. This guy, all the way through, he's been magnanimous about the whole thing. I don't think he's ever blamed Peter for
Speaker 1:that. No.
Speaker 2:He's blamed maybe nobody. He just blamed it to, like, an unfortunate set of circumstances.
Speaker 1:And actually very mentally sound.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's apparently
Speaker 1:the rest of the fam.
Speaker 2:Who are who are really losing it at this point. So so just quickly, one other thing which we I don't think we can overlook, which is that now we know that there is something going on in terms of demonic possession is that throughout the film so far, we've had this blue light. There's moments where Charlie's scribbling in her book when she's still alive, where you have this ripple of light. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Remember that?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And then and then it happens again a couple of times where you see and and you almost like to the point where you're like, did I just see that? Yeah. Is that like a like a plain light going through? But it is not because later on you get to see what that blue light really represents. And because now we're talking about position, I think the blue light thing is kind of important because the blue light quite often is the appears to be there just before a bad thing happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. But we get it at school with
Speaker 1:Peter. So he sees that horrible face in the cabinet then proceeds to smash his head on the table.
Speaker 2:So it does this thing first, isn't he? He lifts his hand up.
Speaker 1:And it goes like straight. Yeah. Because his eyelid goes because someone's like, is Peter alright?
Speaker 2:He's like he's having a stroke.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or a seizure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, seizure. But his hand's like this and then later on you get to see, I don't know if you remember this, but you get to see why we'll get there. That there's a reason why his hand is up like in this position.
Speaker 1:I don't remember.
Speaker 2:We'll get there. But if I talk about it now, it will give it away. But I noticed it because I thought it was such a strange position for him to be in.
Speaker 1:It's super weird. But then I thought that was just part of it being horrible.
Speaker 2:Me too. And then when it we get to the end of the film, there's a bit where you're like, oh, okay. Okay. Anyway, he freaks out and then
Speaker 1:Yep. Smashes face on the table. Yeah. It's pretty horrible. And then scream again, it's the horrible screams, isn't it?
Speaker 2:The screams. The screams of the kids around him as well in the classroom.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And they were just like
Speaker 2:Reaching out.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine seeing that in just like a classroom?
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah. Not like I can't imagine it, but like, what would you do?
Speaker 1:And you just wouldn't wanna come in ever again, would you? You'd be so embarrassed.
Speaker 2:What do mean if you I think embarrassment is the the least.
Speaker 1:I mean, no. But if, like, it wasn't because of a demon possession, like, let's just say you'd have had a seizure like that
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The whole room is seeing you like it would suggest mental breakdown.
Speaker 2:Right? Least he didn't piss himself. Yeah. Because that'd be my worst thing.
Speaker 1:Exactly. You know. Yeah. So then I think we go that's kind of the last we see of Peter for a bit, and it it comes back to Annie. I think she goes to Joan's house and discovers.
Speaker 2:She doesn't discover. She stands and knocks on the door. No answer. No answer. No answer.
Speaker 2:But the camera continues through the door to see what Annie does not see.
Speaker 1:Which is a picture of Peter.
Speaker 2:It's just yeah. And the cult.
Speaker 1:And the cult.
Speaker 2:And, like, below in white curtains Yeah. Candles, demonic symbols.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But in the hands of there's a picture of Peter Yes. In, like, amongst loads of symbols and
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah. Stuff. Peter's become the focus Yes. Of a lot of this demonic attention.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then Yeah. We also there's some discovery about the grandma,
Speaker 2:I feel like. Yes. And it's the so like in The Evil Dead, and films like
Speaker 1:it the photo albums
Speaker 2:and stuff. Yeah. This is what this is like again, from my my my horror and fantasy degree thing with film is that you get this moment where you get this thing called the Oracle. And it's normally like, it'll be a book or it'll be if it's sci fi, it'll be like a ship's log where you find out like Event Horizon, you'll find out that all this bad thing happened. It's the bit where the audience gets to kind of get an idea of why this shit's going on.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:So she finds it's all her grandmother stuff. Yeah. Uh-oh. She finds pictures. She finds lots of stuff about her her mom having sex with lots of naked rough people.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There's like cult practices as well. Yeah. It's the pictures. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The pictures. And then there's there's the first mention of this name, Paimon.
Speaker 1:Paimon. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So like, okay, who and what is Paimon? Yeah. And then there's stuff to do with like fire and yeah. And and the you never did get seen anything like particular, but you do get the idea that, oh, This is all Yeah. Some very, very culty demonic stuff now.
Speaker 1:And then did she discover the body?
Speaker 2:There's the flies Yeah. And the buzzing. Yeah. Yeah. This reminded me very much of Sinister.
Speaker 1:Really?
Speaker 2:This moment. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The loft, I guess. The It's the exact same.
Speaker 2:Always bad things in the loft. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So there's flies. They pull down the ladder to the loft.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Annie does. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. And she goes up and under there's a body under a sheet.
Speaker 2:Yep. With its head removed at this point or not?
Speaker 1:Can't remember.
Speaker 2:Can't remember. Remember details.
Speaker 1:She goes down and tells her husband straight away, doesn't she?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah. I mean, she looks around this attic and it's been like set up in this way. It's very ritualistic. And then her husband comes home and she's like, you have got to see this. You've got to see this.
Speaker 2:And I think for a moment, you're like, oh, he's gonna go upstairs and there's gonna
Speaker 1:be nothing
Speaker 2:there. Because that's the typical horror trope. It's like you're crazy. But that's not quite the case.
Speaker 1:No. And we forgot to mention actually that
Speaker 2:The fire thing?
Speaker 1:Not just that, but after Charlie had died, how Annie started sleeping out in the tree house as well.
Speaker 2:Of course. Yes. She started emulating her daughters.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And that tree house just has something about it, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:It does. Some yeah. The fire thing, now she she tries to burn Annie tries to burn something a bit earlier in the movie in the fireplace.
Speaker 1:Oh, and she sets on fire?
Speaker 2:She sets on fire.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So on her sleeve, she tries to burn the book.
Speaker 2:That's right. She
Speaker 1:tries she tries
Speaker 2:to burn Charlie's book because she's drawn pictures of Peter with his eyes. Scratched out. So Charlie's we're bouncing around a lot. I know. There's this film, it does that to you.
Speaker 2:But she's puts that book in the fire and then her arm lights up on fire. So now there's a connection between the book and fire and, like, why does that happen if you pass out? So the idea is now Tony now Annie has got to the point where she's like, like, this dead person, her mother, I think Mhmm. Who's been exhumed
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:From the cemetery, popped upstairs, has gone a bit rotten, there's lots of flies. She's gone down, but now she's made this connection that Charlie has something to do with this dead Charlie, the spirit's been led into the house. So she thinks that Charlie's book is now the focus of this. So she gives it to her husband and says, look
Speaker 1:You missed the part though where he thought she was the one who dug up her mom and put her up there.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah. He's got to
Speaker 1:that point, hasn't he? He's like, you did that, didn't you?
Speaker 2:Right. So it's all it's all now swirling into this like conclusion, I suppose. So she's like, he's realized, yeah, there's a dead body up there. And she's like, have you done that? But she's freaking out now.
Speaker 2:She's gone proper manic and she's like, you gotta take this book, you gotta throw it in the fire. She her expectation is that he throws the book in the fire and she
Speaker 1:Will burst into flames. She's kind of what she That's what she's saying to him, isn't it? She's like, you'll understand. I can't do it. You need to do it.
Speaker 2:Sadly. And she's ready to sacrifice herself because she really feels like.
Speaker 1:Freeing Charlie.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and it's like, it's gotta happen now. But as we now come to find out, Paimon has other ideas. Yes. So we're gonna get to this bit where he does the book does go in the fire?
Speaker 2:Yeah. You wanna get there?
Speaker 1:Well, he chucks in and he bursts into flames. Doesn't he?
Speaker 2:I'd expected.
Speaker 1:Takes you by surprise I think she surprised her too.
Speaker 2:I think it did.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But he instead of it just being an arm, he fully bursts. In fact, he's dead. He's done.
Speaker 2:He's out of the picture.
Speaker 1:Which is poor him, honestly. All he's done is his best.
Speaker 2:Mate, I like to think I'd I'm the kind of dad. Yeah. Yeah. I would be pissed off if I burst into flames. I've done nothing particularly wrong apart from trying to be supportive father.
Speaker 1:And at this point, I'm pretty sure you see a member of the cult, like, naked in the background of the living room.
Speaker 2:It's either then or it's when Peter comes in.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But there's definitely it's a guy.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's awful.
Speaker 1:It's a naked guy.
Speaker 2:I thought it was like a dead person. And then later on, again, watching that YouTube video, was like, oh, it's it's a person. But I was so focused on a thing because I can't remember how it all pans out, but I know that Peter does come in back and at some point, he's looking around the house for his mom and stuff. And what he does find is just this burnt corpse on the floor. I think that's right.
Speaker 2:And then you see I think it's then you see the person. No. Sorry. Grab your shoulder. That's when you see fucking Annie up on the ceiling.
Speaker 2:Mm-mm. Not
Speaker 1:yet. I don't think so. Is that a low top?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm getting confused
Speaker 1:She's now about the on the ceiling when she's chasing after him.
Speaker 2:Oh, right. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So Yeah. Yeah. It sort of to be honest, I'm a bit foggy now between
Speaker 2:I'm foggy about what happens. It all comes in a rush, doesn't
Speaker 1:It does. And it's chaos and it's stressful.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It is. And Peter, yeah, comes back and we've had the realization that there's other stuff going on. Yeah. Obviously, dad's just died. Crispy dad.
Speaker 1:And then I don't know if she starts chasing him or he runs or whatever, but she's definitely running off to him because he runs up into the loft. Yeah. That's right. And then she's on the other side of it, like, smashing her head into it. And it's at such a pace that is horrible.
Speaker 2:It's like, bam, bam, bam, And then but she does the thing where she's now rising up in the air and there's the soaring. Yeah. What's she using to saw her neck off?
Speaker 1:It's like a piece of wire or something or, like, you hear it. It's crunching.
Speaker 2:Is that piano wire or something that's just
Speaker 1:like Is she hanging?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, that means she but she's she's floating.
Speaker 1:But then is she the one in the loft? Because she's definitely on the other side of it smashing her head because he's hiding from her. No?
Speaker 2:Oh, man. It feels like this is one of these things in the film where, like, the the possession, the magic, the demonic nature of the whole thing has just taken over. Yeah. It is. It's like now Annie is like a supernatural force now, and she can kinda be anywhere Yeah.
Speaker 2:She needs to be to make the Well,
Speaker 1:she cuts her head off because then did she she runs off to the tree. Right. Beheaded.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and we're like, but what's happening So if we We're getting this all wrong in terms of what's happening, where and when and we ultimately what's happening is now Peter is being chased to his doom. Peter is now been well, he's being pushed to the final conclusion of this. Yeah. It seems like everyone needs to lose their head at some point.
Speaker 2:Right? So Toni Collette's lost her head now because she's
Speaker 1:Literally ant figuratively.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1:She's lost her head.
Speaker 2:All gone. Obviously, Charlie lost hers. I think that the mother, the grandmother
Speaker 1:Also had the heads cut off. Off. So
Speaker 2:it's really important now that these people needs to have their heads removed because later on, we're gonna find out maybe why. But Peter is now being forced into a position where he acts erratically and jumps.
Speaker 1:I think he realizes like, I'm fucked. I need to get out of here.
Speaker 2:So I will jump
Speaker 1:out the window.
Speaker 2:He does. He hits the floor, the blue light. Yeah. And then
Speaker 1:This is where his arm is.
Speaker 2:In a minute, right? So do you remember what happens here? So the blue light hits and then Peter kind of comes to.
Speaker 1:But he seems confused.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He seems confused. Yeah. Not even hurt really. Just Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just kind of a bit subdued maybe. And then he heads off to
Speaker 1:The tree house.
Speaker 2:The tree house.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Still don't know the arm bit. Put me out my misery.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, do you wanna talk about what happens in the tree house?
Speaker 1:Okay. And
Speaker 2:I'll tell you about the arm bit.
Speaker 1:This is the ending I
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Hate. Right. So Okay. He comes up into the tree house.
Speaker 1:He's looking confused. And there's, like, a voice over. I don't know who the voice is. Is it Joan? Maybe it's Joan.
Speaker 2:It's Joan. Because Joan is, like, you know, she seems to be cult leader kind of.
Speaker 1:And they go into up into the tree house, and there's all these naked people kneeling, including the headless bodies of the mum, the grandma. I don't think Charlie's there. I think it's just the mum and the grandma. And the voice over is saying, you know, I think she's talking to Charlie. She's like, Charlie, Charlie.
Speaker 1:Like, I don't even remember what she says. But it's basically like, we needed a male host for King Paimon. Mhmm. Paimon. Is it Paimon?
Speaker 2:Paimon Paimon.
Speaker 1:Paimon. So we're here to to worship that king, and you were the vessel.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm just like, what?
Speaker 2:It's a it's a weird kind of abrupt ending, isn't it? But like, the way that I I saw it was that you got all the the cult people all I don't know why.
Speaker 1:They're naked.
Speaker 2:You've always got me naked apparently. I guess it's maybe to be closer to your demonic lord, overlord or whatever. But so they're all there. They're in the tree house and then there's this like Charlie's head is stuffed.
Speaker 1:And it's got a crown on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. King Paimon. Right? But also the statue is holding a staff and the staff hand the hand is here.
Speaker 1:Oh. This
Speaker 2:staff. Right? I see. That's the connection. But what I and then the film is it's literally like kinda like Peter's now basically been possessed by payment.
Speaker 1:He is. He's not Peter anymore. But which is why it's weird that he seems confused. Because if he's done the possession, which all of these events have been leading to, surely he'd be like, hail me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That that's I guess that's what I thought as well. It's like that this is a bit where you should see that kind of sly grin across his face. Like, yeah, all this has been basically orchestrated so that I can now be this
Speaker 1:And it was like seventh lord
Speaker 2:of hell or whatever he is.
Speaker 1:Charlie needed to die because she was supposed to be a boy.
Speaker 2:Supposed be a boy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But she wasn't. So she died so that then he was vulnerable enough to get possessed?
Speaker 2:Guess so. Guess so. Yeah. I thought, well, I
Speaker 1:was trying
Speaker 2:to work out because when when Joan's shouting at Peter to, you know, like, you know, get out. I think I thought she was trying to get, like, a demon out of Peter. Think
Speaker 1:she was
Speaker 2:trying to get Peter out.
Speaker 1:Because they wanted the body for the king. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's why I was getting confused about that. But I know what you mean by it. So the ending of the film, in retrospect, like right. So you've seen the witch?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Oh, with a okay. Anna Taylor Joy. Right? So I think that's another film by Robert Eggers, but it's the same production crew. The very similar thing kinda happens where you get this almost ten seconds of this resolution And then you're like, okay.
Speaker 2:Not sure how to feel about that. I'm not sure how to sort of process what's happened. So, yeah, Peter's in the tree house, the cult's there. He's now been properly possessed by Paimon and now we're gonna see, I don't know, over some point Paimon's gonna, I don't know, turn the world to darkness. We don't have to see that bit.
Speaker 2:So I guess that's the point is that you the end of the film is like it's what it needs to be. Like when Rosemary has the baby and now she's like even though it's like the devil Yeah. Arsenal. Yeah. And it stops there.
Speaker 2:And then in midsummer, she has been assimilated into the cult and it stops there. I So think that there's no there's almost like no aftermath. And you kind of want that closure, but you don't get it.
Speaker 1:And I guess in theory, there kind of is closure in the sense the parallel is ultimately the grandma was the instigator of this family's destruction.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:So she was the perpetrator of abuse and trauma Yep. Which obviously would lead to destruction in terms of mental illness and, like, the mom that went on to abuse Peter, that kind of thing. Yep. So then that's the parallel with the grandma instigated a literal form of destruction Yep. Causing the demonic possession, all of them becoming beheaded, dying, and ultimately their
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Deaths. So I guess that's the parallel. It's sort of about how destructive that abuse can be.
Speaker 2:I think, like, as well, it's one of those things where you need to have a family that is psychologically broken and open to demonic possession in that way.
Speaker 1:Vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Right. It's a thing like, I can't remember why I probably read it at some point. But like this thing of like, you would let medieval belief was that you would let demons in if you know, like, you weren't super Christian and and always Have a community. Right. Protect you.
Speaker 2:Exactly. And it's like, again, there's sort of the the idea of the werewolf in the woods outside and you don't stray from the path because then evil can take you
Speaker 1:if
Speaker 2:you're isolated or but that family, again, the isolation is important Yeah. Just like midsummer again.
Speaker 1:Which they all were individually.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And when and then and then the whole place is remote. Yeah. You know,
Speaker 1:like And then I multiple grief just like it was already cracked and then that was just shattering it further.
Speaker 2:But that that means that like, much like the the the friendly neighbors in Mosemouses Baby, what you've got is a grandmother who's orchestrated this entire thing from her probably before her death and everything that she's done. She's got Joan, obviously, the ally Joan to make sure you swoop in when that happens. You do that, make sure you say that, show her how to bring the daughter, and then open up. And then it's like and that's how we get payment back. That's how we get payment to be.
Speaker 2:Because they all obviously pledge allegiance to the the demon prince. Because now they're I guess there's that. Again, like the witch or whatever. Now their reward for doing that is is that they get the benefits of
Speaker 1:Yeah. In theory.
Speaker 2:Yeah. In theory. But if I was a dark prince, I think I'd just go, nice one guys and then torch the lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Use up a new batch.
Speaker 2:Dickheads. Okay. That's the that's the film.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We've really that's a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We oh, yeah. Bloody hell. It is a long time, Lily. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Is a long time.
Speaker 1:Fucking waffled so much. It was waffling about directions.
Speaker 2:There's a lot. There's and and thank you for pointing the film out to me.
Speaker 1:You're very welcome.
Speaker 2:Thanks. Because it is it's it's gone quickly into my top 10 of those kind of psychological
Speaker 1:It is a good one.
Speaker 2:Demon horrors.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:Is great. It is great.
Speaker 1:Speaking of which
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Shall we do our stupid decisions rating? Yeah. Which I'd honestly, I would say two.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's low, isn't it? Yeah. I reckon I'm there as well. I think that there's so many things that happen in the film that shouldn't happen, but they happen in such a way that they are considered.
Speaker 2:And so you don't feel like they're stupid decisions at the time. Just feel like everything's unfortunate. It's a tragedy over and over again.
Speaker 1:You haven't gone like, what the fuck have you done that for? You've just gone like, something bad's gonna happen.
Speaker 2:Exactly. It's the tension. Yeah. Isn't that like the difference between a horror film where you're kind of like quietly clapping almost like you yeah. That's that's good Yeah.
Speaker 2:As opposed to watching someone like Return of the Living Dead, which all the way through you're like, yeah, this is just dumb.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, good lord.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But no, I I give it a two as well. Think it's just there's not it's not a funny film in I don't think I smiled once apart from almost like when the head comes off. Yeah. But even that wasn't funny until afterwards.
Speaker 2:Oh, god. It's just a store full. Anyway And
Speaker 1:then our favorite bit, which I've not even thought about as per usual, how would we die?
Speaker 2:Okay. It's a difficult one in this film.
Speaker 1:Because it's not as funny.
Speaker 2:God, it's not as funny, is it? It's like, how would I I mean
Speaker 1:And it's also like, this film is very much about the family. We are not part of the family.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So I think the only way we would die is I think I've thought of one. I have not fulfilled my role within the cult Sure. For Paimon. So I just I get sacrificed.
Speaker 2:What, like, off screen?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Literally. Not even I don't even make it on.
Speaker 2:Not even important enough to go I to
Speaker 1:I I was supposed to be Joan. I was supposed to lure in Annie. I failed. He's like, you're fucking useless. You're done.
Speaker 2:I like that. Yeah. It's just like, you just yeah. Yeah. Sorry.
Speaker 2:You had, like, one job, Lily.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:One job.
Speaker 1:You were supposed to get to do the seance.
Speaker 2:But you got distracted by someone.
Speaker 1:All she did was go into Home Bargain. It's like, you fucked it.
Speaker 2:Right. How would I how would I die?
Speaker 1:Joe, what? You would be at the high school party. You'd do too much of a bong. I think
Speaker 2:you're probably not wrong.
Speaker 1:Or you would drunk drive.
Speaker 2:I yeah. I'm I'm pretty good about not not doing that. I I reckon okay. I reckon I'm gonna go for this one.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I wait till the very end. Right? I'm like, okay. I've kind of like, you know, clocked what's happening from a distance. Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm one of Peter's classmates.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. You are.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm like, oh, that's that looks like demonic possession. I spot an opportunity. Okay. I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2:If I make friends with this demon, I'll get what I want. Right? I'll just be like, I'm your mate. I'll give him like the good music and stuff. Iron Maiden.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah. Number the beast. So I wait to the tree house. I'm now crouched behind these naked people like that, but I'm taking my clothes off because I'm bit embarrassed.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm wishing I kinda wasn't there because now I'm just seeing, like, this horrible thing unfold. But right at the end when when Peyman's like, you know, like, hey, I'm here. I'll be like, right. Hey, Peyman.
Speaker 2:Just I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1:Love your work.
Speaker 2:Right? And then straight away, he's like, no. Just immolated, burst into flame, and that's that. Good not one of them.
Speaker 1:No. Other thing I thought was maybe you did take your clothes off and you died of hypothermia.
Speaker 2:So oh, I what I did was I my clothes and I was like, well, it's hot in here. It's And then I no. Sorry. It is cold in here, I turn on the heater.
Speaker 1:And it's a tree house.
Speaker 2:And then
Speaker 1:And it says fire. Oh my god. Okay. I think that's it.
Speaker 2:And I kill loads of naked people and
Speaker 1:I die at the
Speaker 2:same time screaming in among naked people. Yeah. Maybe that's how I go in one big
Speaker 1:That sounds pretty on brand for the film and how I
Speaker 2:think I think so. It's pretty demonic.
Speaker 1:Okay. Amazing.
Speaker 2:What have we got? We got
Speaker 1:No. Yeah. I think that's us. Normally, we finish with what we're gonna do next, but we don't know.
Speaker 2:We don't know. Technically, it's my choice, maybe we should get someone to choose for us.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think as well, what do we do? Evil Dead is demons. Yes. Black Phone is sort of more Go see. Go supernatural, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Return of the Living Dead is zombies. Yes. And this is psychological
Speaker 2:Psychological demons.
Speaker 1:But, also demons. So Yeah. We need to find something else.
Speaker 2:I oh, it's always my turn, isn't it? Mhmm. Oh, unless we get someone else to do it. We haven't done a good old slasher yet.
Speaker 1:That's true. And there's a lot of stupid I think because this was so not stupid, it might be a good idea.
Speaker 2:Might need a little cleanser. Oh. Maybe a little
Speaker 1:Got the possibility yeah. Maybe put a poll up. We could
Speaker 2:put a poll up and let let's do that. Let's do that. And then someone else can decide. But let's just say it's gotta be a slasher film.
Speaker 1:And the class I reckon the classics.
Speaker 2:The classics. Yeah. The Halloweens.
Speaker 1:Halloween, Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday thirteenth, and Texas Chainsaw.
Speaker 2:Texas Chainsaw.
Speaker 1:Come on yourself. Jesus.
Speaker 2:When I make that noise, I think I think it's something like, but but that noise, when I make the noise, like, yeah, that's exciting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, maybe we just choose ourselves. We we are the bosses.
Speaker 2:We do what we like, don't we?
Speaker 1:Yeah. We don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2:We don't give a fuck. We do what we fucking like.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Right. So I mean,
Speaker 1:I Is this changed to what it sounds like?
Speaker 2:What we could do, let's throw it out anyway.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But let's if no one responds Of
Speaker 1:they won't. It'll be me just boasting twice.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah. I think what has happened is we've come out of this. I know it's been a long one, but I've come out of this in a different way from any we've done so far, any films we've chatted about because this is the first time I've I think I've come out of this conversation thinking almost like, I don't know, it's a different discussion we've had.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely not as about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's nice, actually. It's nice to have a chat about a film.
Speaker 1:We need to have range, you know? We do. Can't be one trick ponies.
Speaker 2:We've displayed range.
Speaker 1:I'm proud of us.
Speaker 2:I am semi proud of us.
Speaker 1:And that's all you can ask for.
Speaker 2:That's what you can ask for. Well, until the very next time, which will be whenever we can
Speaker 1:Probably next month.
Speaker 2:Do it. Next month. Month. Let's do it like that. Okay.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much if you listen to this and watch it or whatever. Say something nice or not. Please. Yeah. It's good.
Speaker 2:We had a few comments. Right? And generally quite nice. There was one that was kinda like someone wrote on YouTube. I'm paraphrasing.
Speaker 2:It was kinda interesting. It's like, I don't understand, but no kind of like then sort of a For which one? Oh, I think it was like the first one. Oh. I think it was the evil dead.
Speaker 2:Shit. I don't understand. And I wouldn't want to write back, like, I understand what is happening. Should. You should.
Speaker 2:No. Because the thing is that I I don't wanna engage in comments, particularly because I feel like I don't wanna, a, offend anyone, and I don't wanna have to feel like I'm arguing the point.
Speaker 1:You're not arguing, you're clarifying.
Speaker 2:Clarifying. What is it you don't understand?
Speaker 1:Let us help you. Come at it from a helpful point of view. Would be we would be keen to explain any confusion.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, I tell you what. How about I pass this one on to you?
Speaker 1:Okay. Fine. I'll be the customer complaints
Speaker 2:There you You're the link. You're the quality
Speaker 1:so I don't think I need any
Speaker 2:We don't need that. No stress in my life.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:We put this stuff out there and then people watch it. That's great. You'll listen to it. That's fantastic. But what is nice is that if someone does listen to this, and then if they're on Apple or well, any of the platforms, you can leave a review or just some stars.
Speaker 1:Or subscribe. Ultimately, the grandma was the instigator of this family's destruction.