Decarbonizing the Chemical Industry with Solugen CEO Gaurab Chakrabarti - Ep 169

Wondering how a unicorn startup in the chemical industry is changing the business of chemicals? Join host Victoria Meyer as she speaks with Gaurab Chakrabarti, co-founder and CEO of Solugen, to explore innovative approaches that challenge the traditional paradigms of bigger, more efficient assets. Their conversation delves into alternative solutions for reducing carbon intensity, emphasizing the importance of local supply chains and circular feedstocks.

Gaurab Chakrabarti is a force in the chemical industry, renowned for his unique journey from aspiring medical doctor to pioneering entrepreneur. A Forbes 30 under 30 honoree, Gaurab's passion for studying pancreatic cancer led him to uncover parallels between cancer biology and chemical processing, ultimately inspiring him to co-found Solugen. Alongside his best friend Sean Hunt, Gaurab is committed to decarbonizing the chemical industry through innovative enzymatic catalysts and scalable, high-yield processes.

Learn more as Victoria and Gaurab discuss the following topics:

• An unconventional start to a career: from physician to scientist to Forbes 30 under 30
• Solugen's framework of decarbonization
• Growing into a 2 billion company and the expectations that arise
• How receiving a DOE loan creates an inflection point in growth
• Workforce and cultural evolution of Solugen
• Gaurab's career insights and advice
  
  

Killer Quote: "To build something of generational value, it's essential to ensure the problem you're solving is meaningful and worth committing to for at least ten years. The journey is long and challenging, but the personal and professional growth it accelerates is truly rewarding." 

–Gaurab Chakrabarti

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Creators & Guests

Host

Victoria Meyer

Host of The Chemical Show; founder and President of Progressio Global

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voiceover: A key component of the
modern world economy, the chemical

industry delivers products and
innovations to enhance everyday life.

It is also an industry in transformation
where chemical executives and

workers are delivering growth and
industry changing advancements while

responding to pressures from investors,
regulators, and public opinion.

Discover how leading companies
are approaching these challenges

here on the chemical show.

Join Victoria Meyer, president
of Progressio Global and

host of the chemical show.

As she speaks with executives across the
industry and learns how they are leading

their companies to grow, transform, and
push industry boundaries on all frontiers.

Here's your host, Victoria Meyer.

Victoria: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer.

Welcome back to The Chemical Show
where Chemicals Means Business.

Today, I am speaking with
Gaurab Chakrabarti, who is the

co-founder and CEO of Solugen.

There's a lot we can say about Gaurab.

He is a physician and a scientist, , a
Forbes 30 under 30 recognition in

industry and manufacturing, and more
importantly, in 2016, he and Sean Hunt

co-founded Solugen with this vision of
decarbonizing the chemical industry.

So we're going to be talking
about that today and more.

Gaurab, welcome to The Chemical Show.

Gaurab: Thank you for having me.

, really excited to be on.

Victoria: I'm really
excited to have you here.

So chemicals and biochemicals.

Um, weren't part of your
original plan is my guess, right?

So the story is, and you can tell
us the story, but the story is you

were on your way to being a medical
doctor, before you started Solugen.

So what got you onto this path?

Gaurab: So I ended up getting
the medical doctorate.

What we, what I was doing, I
was studying pancreatic cancer.

And in pancreatic cancer, there's, uh,
like a unique quirk that people have

known for, for years is that it makes
chemicals like hydrogen peroxide and

certain organic acids super efficiently.

And everyone just knew it.

It was like this like secret
that everyone knew about in the

industry, but no one really knew why.

And so what I was really interested in
learning was like, why is it, what's

actually driving its ability to do that?

So that's really what got me
interested in the chemical side

was how does this cell do that?

But on top of that, I came
from a chemicals family.

So my whole entire.

My dad was a chemicals entrepreneur.

My uncle's chemicals entrepreneur.

Everyone in my family is either a chemical
engineer or a chemicals entrepreneur.

So that was the life you know,
that was like the life path.

And so I said, you know what?

No, I'm not going to do that.

I'm going to go be a physician scientist.

I'm going to figure out cancer, right?

That's what I thought was
a really cool place to be.

But little did I know, uh, that cancer
really is just a chemical factory.

It's just like any other, you
know, chemical process that

it's a complex chemical process.

But once I started studying the cancer
biology, I realized that this is the

same thing that My dad talks about, this
is the same thing my uncles talk about,

it's just, it's called mass balance.

Like, something goes
in, something comes out.

That's really all it is.

Uh, and so

that's where it all started was this,
um, insight that like, Hey, maybe there's

something about cancer that can teach
us something about chemical processing.

So I talked to my best friend, Sean Hunt,
who is at MIT doing his, uh, He's a Ph.

D.

in chemical engineering on the production
of massive industrial chemicals.

He's like, I call him the dinosaur.

He's your traditional like heat pressure,
petrochemistry, super skeptical of

biotechnology for a good reason.

Right.

There's, there's been
some failures in the past.

So Where we came together, we said,
was there's actually something here

is that there's this thing called an
enzyme that's in pancreatic cancer

that can basically act as a catalyst.

So catalyst is used everywhere
in chemistry, and this turns

out pancreatic cancer has the
world's most efficient catalyst.

And so we teamed up and we realized that.

There's a better way to make
these chemical products.

People just haven't had
the opportunity to see it.

And so we were just in a fortunate
position where, the stars kind of

aligned that I have this instinct
on, hey, there's something here.

Sean has just the hardcore intellect
of knowing how to make it real.

And together we just had this passion
for like making something happen that

like, I think when you meet Sean and
I, the thing that you'll probably pick

up quickly is that like, we're just
relentless, like we will not stop until

we figure out like how to make it work.

And I think the two of us together
kind of fed off that energy.

And we realized there was like a big
problem in the market where it was.

Yield is the issue, right?

If you look at the whole point of
the chemicals industry, you want

to go from feedstock to product
as efficiently as possible.

In certain respect of the industry, that
yield can be 50, 60%, which is good.

You make money, right?

You're making 20%, whatever it is.

But then the question becomes,
well, what happens to that

other 40, 50% of your feedstock?

Either it can go into the
environment as an emission.

Or it can be reused in your process.

But when you reuse it in the
process, it costs energy.

It costs money.

It costs labor.

So what we said was, is there a world
where we can take this enzyme from cancer

that has never been touched before in
the context of chemicals industry and

put it in effectively a chemical reactor.

So instead of like trying to build like a
biotech facility, we said, you know what?

Let's keep it simple.

Let's take it out of the cancer.

This little enzyme catalyst.

And drop it in a chemical
plant and see if it works.

And obviously it didn't work completely
well the first time, but it worked

well enough where we were confident
that like, Hey, if this is a problem

that Sean and I are passionate
about, I think we can solve it.

So that was really what got us
to where we started the company.

It was less about like.

Our insight in the chemical industry,
it was more about like, just his

passion to solve the problem.

And I think that's

Victoria: That's cool.

Gaurab: yeah, that's kind
of why we did what we did.

Victoria: That's very cool.

And I, and I actually like how you
relate the, the enzyme that are naturally

occurring in our bodies elsewhere.

I, a lot of times when I try to describe
what a catalyst is to somebody who

has no idea, I'm like, you
know, have you ever baked bread?

You know, think of

yeast.

Yeast is a catalyst.

And I, and I think we boil it
down to really simple things.

Uh, we can demystify it,

Gaurab: Yes.

And it's not scary, right?

Like it's, I think the other beauty
of, of why we started Solugen was

we wanted to bring people from
different backgrounds, right?

I I'm not a chemical engineer.

Sean's not a enzymologist, but that's the
environment that we're trying to create.

Victoria: Right?

That's very true.

It's a, it's an industry that, um, it's
chemists and chemical engineers and

kind of traditional hard scientists,

Gaurab: Yeah,

Victoria: Continuing to
work and develop and grow.

Gaurab: exactly.

Victoria: Let's talk a
little bit about Solugen.

And what the company is and
what you guys are really doing.

Gaurab: Yeah, absolutely.

So really going back to how we
started, we started to think

about things in terms of yield.

So if you look at what we're trying
to do at Solugen, we believe that to

decarbonize the chemicals industry
is a nearly impossible task.

And I'm saying that with the,
with a company whose mission is

to decarbonize this industry,

right?

Not like steel.

It's not like cement, right?

If you look at steel or cement
or the big industrial emitters,

they're one product, right?

It's a steel, steel is steel, but
in the chemicals industry, you're

talking about a slew of product.

You're talking about thousands of
different SKUs, each with its own

unique quirk and how it's manufactured.

So what we said was, let's create a
framework by which we can actually

think about this decarbonization.

And there's really three buckets in
that framework that we break it down.

One is we believe feedstock and
circular feedstock are going to be key.

This doesn't just mean
bio based feedstock.

Imagine there was oil that was
going to be burned for fuel value.

But what if you can reuse that
oil for making chemicals, right?

There's all these like ways of
recirculating, recircularizing

different feedstocks to
actually drop carbon intensity.

So that was number one.

Number two was more efficient processes.

So this goes back to our
earlier conversation on yield.

Where we believe that for us to
have a decarbonized process, you

need the highest yield that, you
can technically, get and so that's

where the enzyme technology came in.

And the third was local supply chains.

So we are quite convinced that being
close to the customer and being close to

your feedstock are really the things that
are going to matter to this industry.

Cause.

Otherwise you end up being in
the same problem as what the

steel mill industry was, right?

There was these massive steel factories
that created steel that had to be

shipped thousands of miles away to
the end customer Until a company

called Nucor comes along and says
hey, what if we miniaturize this?

What if we were able to make smaller
versions of these factories and put them

close to either where the feedstock is or
where the customers consuming the product.

So we, that's the same idea that we
had was like, well, what if you can

create chemical mini mills instead
of creating giant massive facilities

today?

And we did that.

So it isn't, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Victoria: That's cool.

And in fact, what's interesting with
this, and I've had this conversation

with others, this idea of you know,
when you look at the length of

chemical supply chains so much of
the emissions, the environmental

impact is actually on logistics.

Right?

And so.

The shipping industry, the
logistics industry is doing a lot

of work to try to decarbonize.

But this idea of being, uh,
uh, close to where, you know,

Gaurab: I think close.

Victoria: the consumption is, close
to where the feedstock is, is unique.

You know, I was involved in the very early
stages of Shell Pennsylvania, which is a

new asset that Shell has recently started
up for polyethylene in, in Pennsylvania.

Part of the, part of our logic
and the value proposition was.

Being close to the customers where
the consumption was and close to the

feedstock and cutting out logistics.

Now that's on a massive scale because
the other challenge that the chemical

industry has, of course, is an unwavering
view on what economies of scale

are right.

And this, and this.

Bigger must be better.

There must be more economies

in a bigger asset.

And so we see this today.

We see certainly when you think
about the ethylene value chain, the

assets are getting larger and larger.

And, and there's a bit of a
competition to get to who can build

the biggest, most efficient asset.

Which may or may not be
the long term solution.

Gaurab: Yeah.

And the thing is like, that's why
I think it's going to be so hard

for us to wrap our heads around.

Like, what does decarbonization
mean in this industry?

Cause every product is
so different, right?

With ethylene, you actually
might really want massive scale.

Like to your point, that's where
you get your economies of scale.

The problem then becomes Are we
pushing volume onto customers

or are we pushing quality?

Right?

So if you look at like the way a
lot of commodity chemicals are set

up, it is a volume game, right?

But by definition it's a volume game.

But what if there's a different
way of looking at how we deliver

chemicals instead of saying,
Hey, I want to push volume.

What if there was a world where we could
say, Hey, I want to push performance.

I want to figure out how my product or
my set of products can actually drive

more profit for you instead of saying,
Hey, I just want to sell you volume.

That's where like Solugen is.

I think we're growing up in this era
where like chemicals as a service

or like chemical leasing all these
cool new ideas are starting to become

hot and we're starting to realize
that there are technologies that can

be part of that story of delivering
performance instead of just volume.

Victoria: and, and, and
that's honestly, that's the

specialty chemical story, right?

And that's where we're specialty chemical
companies focus is less on less on

volume, more on value and performance.

So what you guys have obviously figured
out an array of products that can

be produced from your technologies.

Are there any particular areas
that you're focusing in on?

Gaurab: Yeah.

So the way that we do it we have.

We have four core values at Solugen.

One key core value is think big,
act now, which is, like, have

an insanely big dream, right?

Never give up on that dream, but what
are the, I call it the stair steps or the

idea maze, where it's like, what are the
little things we have to do incrementally?

To get to that big vision.

And so the way we look at it
is we make products today.

We make two key products.

We started with hydrogen peroxide, as
I said, but now really are the bulk

of our revenues now coming from two
different acids, a gluconic acid and

glucaric acid, and what we've said
here is that we don't just want to be a

glucaric acid or gluconic acid company.

We're doing that because we see it
as a critical step in the way of

decarbonization journey, where that work
that we're doing to sell the gluconic

and glucaric acid into these end markets.

So wastewater treatment.

Concrete agriculture.

We sell the application,
the performance benefits.

We think those are critical to cashflow
the platform so that we can go after the

bigger meatier problems like plastics,
but you're not going to do that overnight.

So our approach has been like,
I mean, it's not surprising.

This is what people have done in the
chemicals industry for years is we create

products that have clear demand signal
where we can have a performance advantage.

And then once we can cash flow
that product, we reinvest it into

the platform so that we can go
after the bigger molecules like

plastics and things like that.

Victoria: Yeah.

You start, start small,
sell out, sell up and keep

Gaurab: relevant.

Exactly.

It's developing.

Victoria: Cool.

So where are you guys in the
commercialization development stages?

Because when I think about, It's
cellulogen certainly been in

the public eye for a long time,
but I think the question is

always, how commercial are you?

So, so where would you
guys categorize yourself?

Gaurab: Yeah.

the commercialization journey
for us maybe I can just tell

you very briefly how we started.

We started selling peroxide to float spas.

So float spas, this is bizarre.

There's these like isolation
tanks where you just sit and float

Victoria: Oh yeah.

Gaurab: 25 percent salt.

They use peroxide to clean it up.

So what we said was, Hey, our
first product is peroxide.

There's no way we're going to compete
against the big industrial guys.

So we started very commercial first.

Just servicing a small niche group
of customers the best we could.

So we sold, we had 80 percent of the
market share by 2018 or something, which

it wasn't like a huge number, but it
was a profitably large number for us.

And so then that was really
the philosophy with which we

approached commercialization.

Which is let's keep scaling up,
but find customers that we can

delight at every single scale.

So we've got three facilities.

Now we have a Houston facility.

That's like our marquee facility
that supports really in a 200 mile

radius, the different customers and
wastewater energy and construction.

And we've got a second facility
in West Texas, Lubbock, Texas.

That facility was specifically
set up just to service produced

water and the energy sector.

That's a huge problem that's
happening is when you drill for

oil, you're not just drilling for
oil, you're getting a lot of water.

And so for us, our products were
suited just like the float spot to

clean up that water really well.

So that's where our second facility is.

And now we just broke ground on our
third commercial facility in Minnesota.

That's right across the corn, uh, belt.

So that's a perfect area
for us to distribute.

So I'd

say where we are commercially, we've
got three commercialized products at

scale growing revenues fairly rapidly.

But we want to keep launching products
every 18 months using platform.

Victoria: Cool.

And there, and it sounds like they're
primarily water treatment products.

What else is that a good

Gaurab: assessment?

That's where we're focusing a lot
of our attention because we see

that as one of the fastest growing
needs in the chemicals industry.

Especially if you look at like what's
happening with semiconductors and

a lot of the manufacturing that's
being on short in the U S we do need

to think deeply about, well, how are
we going to handle all that water?

And so we'd rather have that be our
chemistries than other chemistries.

Victoria: The path to commercialization,
as you know, is not straightforward.

There's always been a lot of great
scientists and innovators that

have identified molecules that
frankly never get out of the lab.

And it's possible that you
guys have some molecules that

may never get out of the lab.

So we'll see, right?

I mean, I'm sure there's, that's possible.

What's really the key enablers though,
when you think about the enablers

of commercialization for Solugen.

Gaurab: So where we are
again, we're small, right?

Like we're still tiny company
in the scheme of this industry.

So the advantage we have is
really getting to know what

the customer's pain points are.

And so we took motivation
from polyethylene.

So basically HDPE, it didn't start
as, as we know, HDPE today, right?

Like in every single product in the world.

It started off in the
modest hula hoop market.

So basically, when it first kicked
off, hula hoops were metal, right?

They're heavy.

It was hard to really get things going.

And then the folks that made
this HDPE said, well, what if

we can make a lighter hula hoop?

Customers loved it, and
that's where they started.

They started not at, hey, what's
this like crazy great ambition?

They started a pain point that they knew
that their product could solve today.

And then when we look back, HDP
is one of the biggest successes

of the chemicals industry, but it

started off with a point, right?

Like it was a toy.

And so that's really like the, it's a
much more, it's a slower strategy, right?

Where it's like, I want to first
make sure I'm solving the pain

point for a hundred people.

And then really nail that pain point.

And then, then we can start going and
attacking bigger and bigger problems.

So that's really the
commercialization framework.

It's very simple.

What is the problem?

Can we solve it?

If we can't solve it, what do we
need to figure out how to solve it?

Victoria: Cool.

So, so you talk about Solugen being
a very small company and yet you

know, you've currently, I actually
thought it was a billion dollar

valuation, but you're at a 2 billion

Gaurab: Yeah.

Victoria: valuation, uh,
significant venture capital

investment, lots of media attention.

How do you reconcile this?

I think it's,

Gaurab: Yeah.

Victoria: you know, how does a
small company have a 2 billion

valuation will be one question.

how do How do you grow
into this expectation?

And I guess maybe when do you
grow into this expectation?

Gaurab: Yeah.

This is where, um, we take a very, you
know, like I agree that there's a lot

of, a lot of media attention on Solugen,
because people want this to succeed.

Right.

People want cleaner chemistry, but
you have to divorce like what people

want with what is best for business.

So like what's best for our business

is credibility and proof points.

We have this phrase called the
two great filters at Solugen.

The first great filter is, does
your technology even scale?

Is it real?

Right.

And so we've crossed that filter
with, I think, pretty good grades.

Now the second filter
we're coming to is great.

Does this thing scale
into a massive business?

That's the second great filter.

And where we are on that, I think.

The biggest win for us, actually we
announced it today, was the Department

of Energy's loan program, office loan.

So this one is, this was a 20 month
diligence process where we had

the world's leading experts in our
technology and markets come in and

really look under the hood at Solugen.

Every single customer contract, every
single operating parameter on the

plant, it was diligence to death.

This was what we consider our second
great filter, which was, okay, great.

We know the technology
works, but does it work?

And does it scale up in such a way that
we can build a massive business out of it?

The success of getting that department
of energy loan program office loan.

This is the one that Tesla got
for the Fremont facility that's

really when Tesla took off, right?

Is if you

remember it.

That was their inflection point.

I suspect we're in a similar inflection
point right now, where, because we got

this loan and we're executing on this
plant, I do believe that there is a chance

that Solugen will be a pretty big company.

I don't know how big, but I
think that there's something

here that no one else has.

And that gives me the confidence to
think through that there are markets

that we can go in very quickly.

Victoria: Yeah.

So first of all congratulations
on getting that.

I know that's there was a lot of work
for you and your team to, to get the

loan and not just, I guess, and it's
not just about getting that DOE loan.

It's what it signifies.

Right?

Gaurab: It's the, it's basically
that stamp that says like,

wow, this is real, right?

These are real hardcore projects that
have real return on invested capitals and

that means we're no longer that startup,
that's bright eyed and bushy tailed.

We have a lot of work to do now.

Like we have to chop a lot of wood
to get to where we want to get.

Victoria: So you're in the process of
building the Marshall facility, which

I guess is what the funding is for.

What's the timing of startup
when you think about that?

Gaurab: Yeah.

So right now we're pegged
for a first half of 2025.

However the way the DOE loan
works, there's like a lot of,

it's a very proper loan process.

Right.

And that, if you know these loan
processes, they can sometimes be a little

slow just from an administrative side.

So we're anticipating a 2025 first
half, but depending on how the DOE

decides to like work with us, it
could extend to later in 2025 as well.

Victoria: Why Minnesota?

So in fact, when I first talked
to somebody from your team,

they said the Marshall plan.

I was thinking Marshall, Texas.

I don't know.

Marshall, Minnesota.

So why Minnesota?

Cause that's not a typical
place for a chemical facility.

Although obviously we've got 3M

Gaurab: Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

It's not where you, yeah, it's exactly
like, it's a great question because

the way we thought about this was goes
back to our pillars of decarbonization,

which was one is feedstock, circular
feedstock, two, can we be in a

place where our process actually
shines in terms of the efficiency?

And then three, can we be
close to or near end customers?

And so if you look at.

Marshall, Minnesota.

We did a full bake off, right?

We looked at other areas
in the Midwest as well.

We ended up deciding on Marshall
because it was right across

a corn processing facility.

So our feedstock is sugar.

So we partnered up with
ADM to build a plant.

There's literally a pipeline of sugar
that comes from their plant to our site.

And on top of that, the conditions,
like it's actually slightly cooler.

There during the summer months, which
is really good for enzymes, like enzymes

love when it's a little bit colder.

And then the third piece is a
lot of the customers are there.

So if you look at the agriculture sector
wastewater is a huge one in agriculture.

A lot of people don't realize
a lot of the farms and things.

These are some of the biggest wastewater
treatment customers in the world.

And so that's where we, we focused in.

So it hit those three pillars of
our, of our framework very well.

There's something to be said, just
like more on a personal level.

There's like a, in Minnesota and
in the Midwest, there's still

that culture of like, let's do
it, the American dream is real.

Can we build faster than
anyone else in the world?

That pride is still there.

And it's, it's awesome to be around.

Victoria: Yeah.

Well, and so that's actually a good point.

Like if I think about workforce,
so, you know, I'm actually

from, I'm from Illinois.

So it, somewhat adjacent to Minnesota
corn country grew up on a small farm,

uh, surrounded by farm fields and now
a few solar farms, which is always

an interesting thing when we see,
traditional farms get converted.,

Gaurab: Yeah.

Victoria: as, you know,
pros and cons there.

But one of the challenges that many
chemical operators talk about is

really just workforce, having the
right workforce, not just to build

the plant, but to operate the plant.

How do you see this happening?

Number one, how, I guess to the
extent that you can tell us, How many

people do you expect to employ there?

And how has your assessment
of workforce been?

Gaurab: Yeah.

So this is the biggest question.

Just as an aside, like, I think
that's going to be the bottleneck for

all this climate technology stuff.

I think it's amazing
technologies, but no one cares.

You can't make it.

You need people to make this stuff.

So this is where we spent a lot of time.

So the Marshall site.

Construction wise will
be about 200 people.

Steady state will be roughly
around 100, 60, 100 people.

So it's not small, but
it's not big either.

So it's a perfect microcosm.

But what we did was we invested
heavily in workforce training.

So we actually have a program in Houston
where we bring, it could be a farmer.

It could be honestly anyone that
has that mechanical aptitude.

We bring them into Houston.

They do a six month rotation.

To our plant in Houston with the
operators, and so they learn everything

about the operation and the culture.

So like, that's the

second part that's like just as important.

It's like, what is that culture vibe?

What's the cadence that like we move
at having them do that training program

for six months has been really valuable.

And so we do that.

We actually have a partnership with
some of the local community colleges

in Houston and in Marshall, where
we just have students come through

and we have them trained through our
biomanufacturing program, just to get a

sense of this is not that complicated.

Yeah, it's like new technology, but at the
end of the day, it's just vessels, right?

Like, we could figure out vessels.

The thing that's hard to figure out
is, Reprogramming cultural mindset.

So if you look at what traditional, a lot
of traditional, like chemical companies

are, have been around for a while.

So there's never been

this urgency, you know,
it's been steady state.

Let's keep the things going,
which isn't how it should be.

However, we're, we're in a different
challenge where we're competing,

not just on the technology, but also
establishing ourselves commercially,

which means the culture has
to be slightly different.

And that starts with the operators.

The operators have to have this, I call
it like this Relentlessly resourceful.

That's kind of the description I have
for it, which is like, something's going

to break, something's not going to work.

There's going to be a miscommunication
no matter what, what are you going to do?

I don't care that the problem is there.

How are we going to solve it?

So like really getting operators trained
in that mindset of we're going to solve

these problems, even if it's like a
technically very challenging, which is

different than just learning
how to operate a yeah,

Victoria: it is,

different.

And it's interesting because 30 years ago
when a lot of the chemical technologies

that we take for granted, we're starting
up, there was that whole resourcefulness,

like you just have to figure out
it's not going to be operating

at 95% it's operating at 70%.

You've got to fix it and
adapt and figure it out.

And and so I think some of that was there.

And then, it evolves out because
you're trying to standardize

processes, yeah, ensure that you have
steady state operations, et cetera.

Gaurab: yeah, yeah, yeah,

Victoria: I love this
relentlessly resourceful.

I think that's great.

how you balance though, being.

Hey, I think I'm solving a problem,
but as it turns out, what I'm doing is

screwing something else up where I don't
have the authority to make that change.

How do you find that balance between
giving people enough leeway to be

resourceful, but also keeping them a
little bit contained because there needs

to be approval processes that needs to
fit with the rest of things, et cetera.

Gaurab: I can maybe just give you
like a history of what we've gone

through and you can see kind of how
we've learned where we are today.

So we started as kind of like.

I'd say like a very much more, chaotic,
I guess, when we started the company.

Safety was always number
one, so it was a lot easier.

It's easier to orient towards
safety in the early days because

there's not as many people.

As we started to grow, we went
the, we swung the other way.

We said, you know what?

We're going to go process heavy.

We're going to process everything.

Everything is going to be an
SOP, et cetera, et cetera, right?

And that slowed everything down to a halt.

Like it just nothing because we thought
we were playing corporate, right?

We are, we're a company now.

Like we have to have an
SOP for, you know, X, Y, Z.

Now we realize it's 60 40, where
it's like 60% of the processes

are absolutely critical.

40% of the processes should be
malleable because they don't have

direct impact on safety outcomes for
my people, they don't have direct

outcomes for throughput or yield.

Those are the areas that we should
be experimenting heavily with.

That's 60 percent of process that we need
for safety culture that we cannot change.

And so that's kind of how we've come
to this, that's part of the training is

like, what is part of that 60 percent
and what is part of that 40 percent?

Victoria: Makes sense.

Makes sense.

And you have to find
the balance, uh, to, to

Gaurab: Yeah, we messed it up.

We messed it up a few times.

Thankfully, no safety issues at all,
but still it's just an efficiency thing.

Yeah

Victoria: mean, obviously you guys are
learning something new every day, right?

Gaurab: and I think that's, you
know, going back to like what is

relentlessly resourceful at Solugen.

It's this idea of like
knowing how to learn quick.

Yes.

Victoria: Yeah.

Great.

So let's talk a little bit about
customers and markets and you touched

on this, I think a bit in terms of, have
you thought about it, but how have you

really engaged your customers really

Gaurab: Yeah,

Victoria: gain learnings
and create buy in?

Gaurab: so that's, that was like the
toughest thing in the beginning, right?

Cause like we're an
entity that no one knows.

So what we did was we took a very
consultative approach where like,

just forget that we're selling
a chemical just for a second.

Like I actually tell the team,
like, that's not what we're doing.

We're not selling chemicals.

Focus in on like, do we
understand the customer's process?

From beginning to end, uh, in terms of
how they're actually using products.

I'll give you an example.

With Champion X, a Champion
X is a great partner of ours.

They're in the energy sector.

They used to be.

What was it?

Ecolab Nalco Ecolab, and they
spun out as Ecolab subsidiary.

Then they became Aperture, and now
they're ChampionX, and they just got

a buyout offer from Schlumberger for
seven billion, something crazy, right?

So what we did, yeah, what we did with
them was, We said, first, let's go visit

their plants instead of going and saying,
Hey, let's talk to the business people

and the sales guys, let's first talk
to the people who are in the operating

line and figure out where their pain
points along their day to day workflow.

So when we looked at how they're actually
using the chemicals and blending it

and creating their final product.

It wasn't so much about the sustainability
or the price or any of this stuff.

It was about operator reliability.

So the problem was the product that
they were using wasn't our product.

It was a competitor's product.

It was in a powder form.

And the problem is the spike
in demand for this product

was in June, July, and August.

It's some of the hottest
months of the year.

And if you're dealing with powders
in that heat as a operator,

you have to wear a respirator.

So you wear a respirator and you
know, a hundred something degree heat

to deal with this powder product.

And it's just a nightmare.

And so it hits their efficiency.

There's a lot of downstream effects.

So what we said was, can we
solve this operator's problem?

Forget like what our
technology and all this stuff.

So all we did was say, Hey, we can
make that product, but we can make it

a liquid and we can ship it to you.

At whatever dose you need so
you can put it in your lines.

All of a sudden the operators
were like, please, yes, thank you.

Like, this is all we want.

And so that was an example of, it
wasn't about the amazingness of the

technology or whatever about the team.

It was the team's ability to say, Hey,
there's a key bottleneck that no one's

talking about in this process because the
sales guys aren't on the process for it.

It's just the

nature of a lot of these businesses
and to no fault of their own.

But if you force yourself to actually
get into the process and the operations,

you find so many more opportunities
to actually introduce solutions.

So that's how we'd like to go
about doing commercialization

is much more consultative.

And I guess understanding
the pain point deeply.

Victoria: Yeah.

I love that.

And, and in fact, and I talked
to folks about this, that.

A lot of times the chemical industry
has been trained to sell on spec.

spec Right?

We all value our specification.

Does it meet the quality target?

It's got the right density.

It does whatever, and that's great, but
specifications are easily replicated.

But getting to the point of
understanding, well, what else?

What are your customers value about what
you're delivering, about how they're

using the product, about consistency.

In your case, you've discovered something
about the form that the product comes in.

Uh, that's where differentiation
and value occurs.

It's not, frankly, it's
not in the product itself.

Gaurab: Exactly.

And so like, it's, that's what
I love about this industry

and I saw my dad do this too.

So my dad started an oil
fields chemical company.

And so I, I was there every
weekend blending product for them.

And what we saw was people only
cared about how this product

affected their lives, right?

The people that were using it,
the people that had the buy in.

What are the things about this
product that will make them happy

and even get them a bonus like
what's going to make them succeed?

So that's like really the framework
that we've had at Solugen was like

forget about the volume that we have to
produce, forget the product, just go in

and figure out what is that pain point.

And so a few other examples, I'll be
brief on this one, but like wastewater,

we found a huge customer who had a big
problem because they had to bring in like

a parasitic acid into their facility,
which is a lot of work to handle parasitic

acid, but they ran through so much of
this stuff that it became a huge headache

to deal with the logistics of the PAA.

Okay.

So what we said was, well, what
if we had a synergist that you can

use in your system that allows you
to less, use less PAA and a half

less to worry about the safety.

And that turned out to be a
value proposition that in itself.

And so like every case is unique in
this market because we're going and

solving that and problem, but it
turns out there are certain patterns

that just keep repeating themselves.

And so that's,

that's how we,

Victoria: I mean, that's great.

And in order to scale, you have to
find and leverage those patterns.

Gaurab: exactly.

And so that's what I think
we've been successful at is.

Going slow in the beginning
to really understand, like,

where are the real pain points.

Once we can identify the top four true
value propositions of products, that's how

we go scale that product line in that way.

Victoria: Makes sense.

So Let's talk about people and teams.

And you've talked a little
bit about the culture.

Um, and I've worked with companies
that have, gone from technology to

commercialization and there's always
an evolution, but when you think about

your people, how has your team evolved?

Gaurab: yeah.

Man, so much.

So much.

I think I can reflect on this kind
of as part of like me and Sean's

growth journey as founders as

well.

In the beginning we were like, we're
scientists we're not, the commercial

guys, we're going to bring in like
really seasoned commercial people

to do this, which very seasoned in
like a late stage company is not the

same as success in the early stages.

So in the early days, we just brought
in a lot of folks that you know, just

had experience at big companies thinking
that, like, they'll help us create

the process and things like that.

What ended up happening was it was a
cultural disconnect between the problem

that the customer was facing, what we
saw and what actually needed to happen

commercially for the customers to succeed.

So what we were too far
apart from the end result.

Now where we are culturally,
Sean and I are involved.

Largely in most aspects of the business,
not in a micro management type of way.

We have this phrase we call miso
management, which is like, we're

not the 30, 000 foot managers, but
we're not going to micromanage you.

I want to know great, this is

the strategy of what we're doing,
but what is, are we aligned

on why these are the goal?

What I found is once you build a
team around the alignment piece.

Magic starts to happen, right?

Because when you don't know why you're
doing something, or if you aren't sure if

this is aligned with what your team wants,
you end up going in the wrong direction.

So now what we've built is really a team
that feeds on this alignment idea, which

is okay, we're doing these experiments.

We're running this, commercial test.

Is it aligned with the
goal of the company?

If yes, keep going.

If no, we have to pivot away from that.

So it's like this constant,
like readjustment.

And so the people that we
bring onto the company now.

We overemphasize this idea of like being
quickly adaptable to changes and not

getting emotional about Hey, I've been
working on this for a year yet, but the

customer's needs have changed, so we have
to kind of go where the customer is going.

So

yeah,

that's, that's a very
different mindset for us.

Victoria: And what's the demographics
of your company when you think

about, um, if you even just think
about age or years of experience.

How, what does that
look like for you guys?

Gaurab: So I did this analysis.

We do a biweekly people kind of analysis.

So I did this very recently, bimodal.

So basically what you have HY is.

You've got really a lot of folks, like
straight out of like graduate school or

five years in their career, really kind
of young and hungry figuring things out.

And then you've got Ad Solugen experts.

So people who are just
super experts in the field.

And what we found is like, we'd like
this mentorship concept, which is we

pair the people who have the experience
with the people who are newer so

that they can figure out that you
don't have to figure everything out.

Like some of this stuff has
already been solved for you.

Right?

And so that pairing, it's kind of
like a reflection of our grad school

days where in grad school, you start
a fresh PhD, but you've got like the

postdocs and you've got your mentor
who's experienced to help you kind of

figure out like how to solve the problem.

And so that's really like the
demographic balance that we try to hit.

Victoria: And I'm guessing you did not
really anticipate being CEO of a company

that's got a 2 billion valuation, when
you were starting on this journey, how

have you learned to evolve as a leader?

Gaurab: I think the biggest thing is ego.

I think the.

Starting out, you just think
you're hot shit, right?

Excuse my language, but like,
you know, when you start out,

you're like, Yeah, we all do!

Which is great!

You need that level of energy.

But the reason like we set up a solution
where we have the more experienced

people mentoring is because we want
that really when I say like mentorship,

I just mean getting rid of ego.

That's what I found is like the people
who are truly experienced, they are

like completely egoless about the
final outcome because they want what's

best for the company and the customer.

So I think what I've learned and still
learning to be frank is like, this

ego piece of the puzzle, just being
able to acknowledge that that is a

significant problem if you're kind of
in, auto mode, and you're just driven

by ego, you're going to do things
that aren't best for the customer.

So, having the more experienced
people around me to be like, look.

I know that you're passionate about this,
but your ego is driving this decision.

So let's take a step back and
see well, what are the, what

are the truths of this problem?

And does your ego need to even
be involved in this conversation?

And so, that level of self
awareness, I think, is what's

really changing for me and Sean.

And it, it was a painful process.

Victoria: Is there a leader
that you model yourself

Gaurab: Uh,

Victoria: that you say, I, I
would like to be a leader like

this or a combination of leaders

Gaurab: Not really.

I wish it would make my life a lot easier.

I think for us it's more of what does
the company need at the moment and

in the next, 12 months for us to be?

And so what we do is we study
companies that are in that

phase of their life cycle.

So there's a lot of companies that are
in this, weird, inflection point period.

But there's a lot of people who've
gone through that in their career.

So we spend time with them to figure out
like, well, where did you guys go wrong?

And fundamentally, like, the biggest issue
is always ego in, in, in these things.

So anyone who can teach us how to
be less self centered, ego driven,

I think it's the right answer.

Yeah.

Victoria: that's tough because I
said, you know, we're all egocentric.

In our own way, right?

We're all, I mean,
that's just human nature.

We see the world through our
own eyes, with our own lenses.

We are the center of our own universe.

And it's really hard to break
some of those paradigms and see

things from other perspectives

Gaurab: And the worst is like when

Victoria: how we're wired.

Gaurab: not how we're wired.

And the worst is when that
thinking starts to bleed into

the customer interactions, right?

Because the whole point of a customer
interaction is, am I solving the problem

that is their problem and not my problem?

And so I think that was like
this whole, like, I call it like

commercial compassion, which
is can you go in and really

understand what the customer
needs through that process.

And that's hard.

It's really hard to do.

Yeah.

Victoria: Listening
without bias, which is hard

to learning for all.

I will say I try that, and I've had
the opportunity to really speak and

learn and listen from a lot of leaders
like yourself and others and staying

open, listening just to listen.

As opposed to with your own
agenda and bias it's a challenge.

It's a skill.

It's a muscle.

You have to keep working.

Gaurab: It's almost always you're in
what you thought was the way this thing

is going to go is like never, right?

Things are just gonna go
the way that they should.

Victoria: It evolves.

It evolves.

So my final question here for
you is, what's your advice?

So what's your advice to
young doctors and scientists

Or, young leaders anywhere that
are, that want to pursue a path of

entrepreneurship on a large scale?

What advice would you give?

Gaurab: Yeah, I think, the blanket
advice is just make sure you're

solving a meaningful problem, right?

Cause like you're going to be, I
thought I was going to be doing

this for maybe two or three years.

Like when I was like, okay, I'll do
this for two, three years, license out

the technology and then go back into
academics and medicine or whatever.

But now it's been almost eight
years and I'm still doing the job.

Right.

So I think it has to be something
worth kind of pushing through 10

years, at least 10 years for it.

Otherwise it's just, it's, I mean,
that's okay if you don't want that.

But the reality is if you really
want to build something of meaning

and generational value, I think,
the first 10 years is really where

you see where it's going to go.

And then you, after that first 10
years is where you can actually

start building, like what, the
legacy or the thing is going to be.

So where I'm

at

Victoria: other hand, based on what
you said, that you thought this was

going to be two or three years, if
you had known it was going to be

10 years, would you have jumped in?

Gaurab: To be completely
honest probably not

probably like if I had to go back now
and be like, look, man, like I love it.

Like I love the process now, but it's
only after learning more about myself.

But like, when you start that journey,
you know nothing about yourself,

like you're a kid out of like school.

Right.

So you know, nothing.

And so I think I wouldn't have done it,
but I'm so glad I did because the lessons.

I accelerated like personal
and professional development

by 10 years, like I

guess you could say.

Victoria: Absolutely.

Cool.

Well, thank you so much.

I've really enjoyed spending
time with you today.

I know others are really going
to love hearing your story.

Gaurab: Thank you so much.

Really appreciate the questions and
a huge fan of what you're doing here.

So thank you.

Victoria: Thank you.

I appreciate that.

And thank you everyone for listening.

Keep listening, keep following,
keep sharing, and we will

talk with you again soon.

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