Connecting the Dots with Nicholas Bishop

Show Notes

Join Kosta and his guest: Nicholas Bishop, Vice President for Economic and Community Development at Volunteer State Community College.

In this episode: Nick's career path from the TN State Legislature to Vol State Community College, how community colleges shape the workforce of Tennessee, exploring TN Reconnect, the program that will give anyone in Tennessee a free two year degree, and how we educate our workforce to fill the jobs vacancies of tomorrow. 

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a product of Morgan Franklin Media and recorded in Cookeville, TN.

Find out more about Volunteer State Community College:
https://www.volstate.edu/

Find out more about Kosta and all the ways we're better together:
http://kostayepifantsev.com/

What is Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev?

Better Together with Kosta Yepifantsev is a podcast about business, parenting and living life intentionally. We're here every week to bring you intentional conversations on making your own path to success, challenging the status quo, and finding all the ways we're better. Recorded in Cookeville, TN, Kosta joins guests from all walks of life to bring fresh perspective and start your week with purpose. We're better together.

Nicholas Bishop: If you could
take almost any community

college in the country, compare
where they have a student at

when they enter that college
compared to where they're

economically from away
standpoint. A year, two years,

three years post graduation, do
that same comparison with the

student from Harvard. The
student that goes to the

community college will see a
more significant wage increase

at the community college and the
students that graduated from

Morgan Franklin: Welcome to
Better Together with Kosta

Harvard.

Yepifantsev, a podcast on
parenting business and living

life intentionally. We're here
every week to bring you

thoughtful conversation, making
your own path to success,

challenging the status quo, and
finding all the ways we're

better together. Here's your
host, Kosta Yepifantsev.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Hey, y'all,
this is Kosta. And today I'm

here with my guest, Nicholas
Bishop, Vice President for

economic and community
development at Volunteer State

Community College. For anyone
who doesn't know you, you grew

up in Morgan County, Tennessee,
your first professional venture

was an energy, you became a
county commissioner. And this

leads you to the Capitol working
for the state of Tennessee, then

to law school, practicing law.

And finally, higher education.

You're obviously incredibly
driven by community development

and outreach. What do you see as
your end goal through all of

this? That's a great question
the to go deep right out of the

gate, when you say the phrase
and Goma hair on the back of my

neck stands up a little bit. So
that's a great way to put it.

You know, sometimes I think I'm
probably just a leaf blowing in

the wind. So I don't really have
one particular goal for myself.

And this is going to sound
cheesy or corny, but I really

just feel like my purpose and
what I'm driven to do. And what

my calling is, is to try to help
people be successful and try to

help communities be successful.

I'm a washed up athlete. So at
the end of the day when

Nicholas Bishop: baseball and
basketball nice. And so whenever

the end is, you know, I wanted
to be able to look back and know

that I did everything I could to
help people be successful, help

communities be successful, and
just left it all on the field.

And so that's kind of the path
I'm on right now.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I love it.

And obviously growing up in
Morgan County, like that small

town live and I think the
population of Morgan County as

well, like 12,000

Nicholas Bishop: Morgan County
has about 23,000. Town is

sunbrite. So shout out to
sunbrite population 600.

Kosta Yepifantsev: You know,
I've been there a while yeah, so

I used to do estimates for home
mods, like I used to go to

people's homes for TennCare. And
like for our company and measure

for like ramps and take pictures
for showers. This was 10 years

ago. And I used to drive through
sunbrite and Wartburg. And, you

know, on my way to like Campbell
County, you know, II and

sturgeons Ville and Upper East
Tennessee, so I get it

Nicholas Bishop: beautiful
country. Yeah, some bras still

doesn't have a red light, still
still no red light. You

Kosta Yepifantsev: think it'll
happen one day? I doubt it. So

it sounds like a lot of your
touchstone is public service.

And I want to get into later on
who inspired you to have this

type of love for public service.

And I know you've said that
earlier that you were a county

commissioner at the age of 20.

You were still in college at UT,
which is huge. Right? So we got

a lot to get into. But I want to
ask, you've already had enough

career experiences for three
lifetimes. What drew you to

volunteer state from practicing
law and working at the state

capitol,

Nicholas Bishop: spent about
1011 years with Tennessee

Department of Labor while I was
going to law school, and the

experience of working in
department labor is honestly an

education within and of itself.

What was it like, I got to learn
so much, just from a

professional standpoint, and
just running knowledge

standpoint, I got to work across
the entire state, I had the

opportunity to work for three or
four different commissioners.

And so really got to learn a lot
and have a front seat to

government at a high level. So
that was an education all of its

own. And so after 10 years of
that I kind of moved my way

through department did a little
bit of everything, and reached

that point, completed a law
school, got my law license, and

was ready to do something else,
you know, as administration's

were starting to change. I
always had an interest in

business always had an interest
in the law and always had an

interest in government. And so
this position opened up at Ball

State, and I was like, this is
an opportunity where you know, I

can get to do all three of these
things or use all three of these

skill sets and felt like maybe I
can have an impact there. So I

just kind of threw my ring and a
hat and went forward from there.

And here we are.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So when you
were at the state capitol, how

old were you? When

Nicholas Bishop: I went to work
in with as an intern for

representative window? I would
have been 2021 thing I was 21

Did you like it? I loved it and
that was great as well shout out

to your representative window or
former representative window

amazing guy. Super Human being
great guy. Oh, a lot of my

success in my career in
education him he was a good

mentor, and encouraged and
supported me along the way and

gave me access to learning you
know, government my way around

government. So So yeah, I think
I was 21 when first started

there.

Kosta Yepifantsev: What did you
major in? So, UT like your

undergrad? Yeah.

Nicholas Bishop: My undergrad is
in political science, O'Connor

and economics. So my wife often
joke, she's like, you're the

only person I know actually uses
your degree. Your major.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Yeah. Do you
recommend for anybody that's

interested in whether it's
public service or even higher

education? Do you recommend
going and doing an internship at

the state capitol? If you
didn't?

Nicholas Bishop: Absolutely. I
really recommend internships for

any any career but a great way
to kind of get your feet wet.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So as the
vice president of Volunteer

State, how do you believe
community colleges shape the

overall workforce of Tennessee,

Nicholas Bishop: I think
Community College is probably

one of the biggest drivers and
economic engines for economic

development in the workforce in
the state. We've been very

fortunate in Tennessee dating
back to even Governor Bredesen

administration around 2000,
probably six to 10 period. And

then with Governor Haslam after
that, and Governor Lee now,

they've all had an education
focus to some degree, whether it

be higher ed or K 12. And tying
that education piece back to the

workforce, there has to be that
connectivity that they can't be

siloed. And so we've been
fortunate with programs like

Tennessee Promise to NC
reconnect and free community

college and that type of stuff.

Something that people often
probably don't realize or are

not aware of community colleges,
on average, do more to move

people on a salary, economic
self sustainability level than

four year universities and Ivy
League schools. So you could

take almost any community
college in the country, compare

where they have a student at
when they enter that college

compared to where they're
economically at from a wage

standpoint. A year, two years,
three years post graduation, do

that same comparison with the
student from Harvard, the

student that goes to the
community college will see a

more significant wage increase
at the community college and the

students that graduated from
Harvard.

Kosta Yepifantsev: What are the
demographics like at volunteer

state?

Nicholas Bishop: So we cover 11
counties, okay, a lot of people

don't know that. So our main
campus is in Gallatin, which

O'Connor County just north of
Nashville, then we have a campus

in Robertson County Springfield,
which is just kind of a little

bit northwest of Nashville about
20 minutes. Then we have a

campus here in Cookeville in
Putnam County, and then a campus

in Livingston. And then we're
trying to build an additional

campus in Mount Juliet and ice
County. So we cover 11 counties

from Robertson County Pickett
County, as basically all north

of Interstate 40.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Are your
students. Are they adult

students? Are they 18 year old
kids? What do you think

Nicholas Bishop: our average age
of students are on our 23 years

of age? Okay, but we have
students that range from 18

years of age to in the early
70s. Yeah. And we often will

have students, we have something
called a Middle College. So you

can kind of go to high school go
to college at same time. Nice.

So every day, we have some
students that will get their

associate's degree two weeks
where they get their high school

diploma,

Kosta Yepifantsev: you see now
that is smart, right? That's

extremely smart. You know, the
statistics is that you can earn

more money. If you go to a
community college and spending

all that money on a four year
university. Why do you think

people choose to go to a four
year school as opposed to a

community college,

Nicholas Bishop: I think it's
important to have options, I

don't know knock on the
university Paceman beat, we're

partners in the process. But
going back to the point about,

you know, what makes community
college that workforce engine,

with the community colleges, I
think they're more aligned to

the workforce, we can get
somebody from training to a job

much quicker, the cost is much
less. But I think there's

obviously still value in going
to the university route. I think

a lot of it has to do with
people's upbringing and their

situation and what their career
goals are, there's just some

things you can't do with a two
year degree, you need to get

that four year degree, we have a
lot of people that we push them

on to the four year degree,
we're just an avenue to help

them get there. There's a lot of
different options. But you know,

it's a market like anything
else, I think it's, you know,

what type of experience are you
looking for? What's your angle?

So I think that plays a lot into
the decision making.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Why wouldn't
anybody want to go to a

community college, if it's free,
under the Tennessee Promise for

the first two years, that
doesn't apply to a four year

university, but it applies to
community college. So I mean,

it's a no brainer, go to a
community college, get free

schooling, and then take the
transfer to Tennessee Tech for

them absolutely. Makes perfect
sense, right.

Nicholas Bishop: I think they're
in a pandemic, we saw a lot of

people that were, you know, kids
and parents were living together

and working together and
educating together the whole

time. 24/7. So we heard a lot of
people, both parents and kids

alike, were ready to get away
from each other. So I think that

pushed a lot of people to the
university. They felt like maybe

there was a way to live there
during the pandemic, but it's

starting to kind of shake back
out. But for Tennessee, I would

highly recommend, you know, take
advantage of that Tennessee

Promise. Even if you don't go to
the associate's degree you're

out, take advantage of it while
you're in high school, doing the

dual enrollment. And then when
you get to that four year

university, you're 18 years old,
not 10 years old, you already

have Have a semester or two
semesters of college knocked out

away for free,

Kosta Yepifantsev: right?

Because I mean, nowadays you
have to have like a master's

degree. You know, that's the new
bachelor's now. So you know, if

you technically finish your two
years associate's while you're

still in high school, you'll
finish your Bachelor's in two

years, and then you technically
will get your Masters by the

time you're 21. Right?

Nicholas Bishop: The running
joke is, you know, a lot of

employers are looking for
somebody that's 27 years of age

with 30 years experience. With a
master's degree,

Kosta Yepifantsev: might as well
be a doctorate in my lifetime in

our lifetime. It'll be a
doctorate. Yeah. So one of your

colleagues and a dear friend of
the podcast, Sean Scanlon told

us, we're putting the community
back in community college. What

does this mean to you? And has
community left Community

College?

Nicholas Bishop: That's a great
question. And great shout out to

Sean, we're really happy and
fortunate to have him on. He's

the man. He's a recruiter for
Ball State for the upper Kremlin

region. So if you see him out
and about, connect with him, and

he'll, he'll get you hooked up
to get your degree at Ball

State. You know, if you look at
the mission on paper of

community colleges, and they
were established back in the

70s, in Tennessee, it's actually
some of the language in that

founding mission statement is
about being a community partner,

supporting community
organizations and opening up

your campus and facilities to
community groups. So I think in

some aspects, just like every
other organization in business,

you get caught up in trying to
pay the bills, trying to have

enrollment, trying to do that
thing. So sometimes you just

have to refocus. And I think in
our case, between the pandemic

and just other situations, you
can't focus on everything at the

same time. So we just kind of
had to refocus. But we're trying

to do things here and overcome
one to one let people know we

exist, because Ball State
actually didn't arrive in

Cookeville until around 2016.

What was it before so at the
time, the Livingston campus has

been here for 30 years, they
just celebrated their 30th

anniversary, but national state
operated a couple of classes out

of the Cookeville campus. But
that was always part of the vol

state service area. So there was
some issues there that got

worked out the state level. So a
lot of people don't realize

still that Ball State has a
campus in Cookeville. And so

we're trying to get that word
out and appreciate you giving us

opportunity. Oh, for sure. For
sure. How

Kosta Yepifantsev: many students
do you guys have that are

enrolled

Nicholas Bishop: run out
Cookeville campus as of today,

for spring semester, we just
busted over the 500 student

mark. Okay. But prior to the
pandemic, we were around 900

students that Cookeville we've
got around 300 students at

Livingston, so we've got, you
know, 700 plus students and over

Carmel area, and we're hoping to
grow that in the fall. But from

fall to spring at Cookeville.

We're actually up some students,
we have about a 15% increase

there. So when you

Kosta Yepifantsev: lay your head
down on the pillow, and you

close your eyes, and your last
thought is Man, I wish I had x

amount of students. What is that
number

Nicholas Bishop: for Cookeville,
I'd like to see us get back to

that 900 threshold, I think that
he's there. You know, the past

couple years, the college going
rate is decreased a little bit,

but it's starting to come back
up. There's some things we need

to align on our side as well.

But I think we're going in the
right direction. But think

there's opportunity. When you
look at the number of high

school seniors, you look at the
number of adults that either

started college and didn't
finish or didn't go the college

route, but are looking for a
career change, look at

automation, jobs are
disappearing. But also jobs are

being created at the same time,
but they need to be rescaled or

upskilled. Yeah, and that's a
great thing about community

colleges, we can be there to
help you get your bachelor's

degree process. If you just need
to be rescaled or upskilled, for

a short amount of time to get a
certificate, we can help you do

that as well.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So you guys
do like the mechatronics. And,

like nowadays, you can make like
$100,000 a year if you just know

how to work with machines and
technology on a line. You know

what, like a typical $15 An hour
employee, if you had these

certifications, you can make
$70,000 a year, a lot

Nicholas Bishop: of people are
not familiar with the phrase

Mechatronics but it's
essentially advanced

manufacturing, right? We often
say if it moves is mechatronics.

So anything that's in the
manufacturing warehouse

logistics field, if it has
machine Mechatronics as part of

it, it's really tied to it as
well, because it's really a

combination of it mechanical and
engineering. A lot of our

students are programming
machines. So they might have a

machine and one person is
programming that machine to do a

certain task. Another person
will come in and repair that

machine or troubleshoot that
machine. And then another person

has to design that machine. So
you combine all those skillsets

of engineering, mechanical and
naughty, but there's just a ton

of opportunity for that.

Kosta Yepifantsev: And you can
get all of that at Volunteer

State at our Cookeville campus.

Nice never have to leave
Cookeville amazing. So is it t

CAD? Yeah, TK

Nicholas Bishop: Tennessee
College of Applied Technology.

Yeah, there are a partner so
Tennessee system is comprised of

what's referred to as Tennessee
Board of Regents. It makes up 13

community colleges, I think
about roughly 40 T ghats, but At

our Cookeville campus, we're
actually partners we have T cat

Livingston, which is a partner
in our Cookeville, Higher

Education Campus. And then also
Tennessee Tech University as

well. So we all work together.

We have articulation agreements.

So you can start a program at
Tika like industrial

maintenance, for example. And
then you can articulate what you

learned at T cat to Mechatronics
degree at Ball State. And then

from there, you can go get an
engineering degree at Santa

Anita and

Kosta Yepifantsev: when I say
like, $70,000 a year like I'm

not embellishing that herget,
right?

Nicholas Bishop: Reasonable.

Yes, manufacturing be 23 years
old, with no college debt,

right? Knocking down $70,000 A
year do you guys teach trades?

We do some on our workforce of
LM, oh, God, a lot of those are

handled by the tea guys. But we
do have some what we call

workforce development programs,
which are really industry

certificate driven, that are
short term, like a year or less.

Actually, Ron, as we speak, we
have a program taking place at

Cookeville. There's a class
there today for fiber optics

technician. Oh, wow. So as you
guys know, maybe even right now

we're getting on the airwaves,
probably through some form of

fiber to the internet. So
there's a huge demand for fiber

optic specialist fiber optic
technicians. And so we have a

cohort right now of about 15
people that are being trained up

at our Cookeville campus to
become fiber optic technicians.

And they can do that training.

It's actually kind of crazy.

They can do it in a week.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So we're
talking a lot about how

volunteer state sets itself
apart from other community

colleges and major universities.

How can someone utilize the
resources of your programs,

because currently, you have
multiple programs completely

free to help build professional
equity and strengthen our

workforce, including stop the
bleed, safety upfront and Narcan

trainings. Will you tell us
about these programs and how

you're expanding barrier free
education, kind of

Nicholas Bishop: alluding back
to this concept of we kind of

have two sides of the house, you
can go your degree, academic

side, or you can do this short
term industry certification

based training. So we're trying
to bring more of those types of

trainings to the upper Carmel
and we have some OSHA trainings

coming up here, you can get
multiple certifications for OSHA

and safety. Fiber Optics, as I
mentioned, also some continuing

education short term
certificates in the healthcare

arena. So we're trying to do
more of those. And we're also

trying to some of the courses
you mentioned are like one day

two day courses where we're
trying to provide a free service

to businesses and organizations,
nonprofits, a CPR training,

we're doing free CPR training,
the stop the bleed, the front

desk, active shooter,
unfortunately, is something you

just have to deal with these
days, those types of trainings

that we think would benefit
organizations, trainings, that

companies have reached out to us
and said, Hey, do you provide

anything like this or similar to
it, and the cool thing about it,

one, it's free, but to actually
have some really awesome staff

at Ball State. So one of our
police officers, we have a

police force, Officer Medellin,
Justin Medellin, he's actually

leading some of those trainings
for stop the bleed front desk

safety, those types of things.

And then we have our OSHA
program, this great to leverage

those talents and resources
within the college and then

hopefully providing a great
product and service back to the

community.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So is the
purpose and I'm just I want to

get a little technical here is
the purpose of those programs,

obviously, you're providing a
great service to the community,

you're also getting people to
come to Ball State. And so at

that point, you might be able to
convert some people get them in

the door and say, hey, you know,
I remember that degree that I

started back in 1982. And maybe
it's time for me to finish it.

So is that kind of the
background behind? Yeah, you

know,

Nicholas Bishop: and going back
to Shawn's comment about, you

know, putting the community back
in community college, you know,

that's one piece of writing that
service. But absolutely, you

know, at the end of the day, and
some people may argue this or

not like to hear it. But the end
of the day, we're also a

business horse. And even though
we're, you know, public

institution, we're still
business, it still costs money

to operate without to pay the
bills. And we want to do that as

efficient as we can for the
taxpayers and get the best ROI

we can. So anytime you can get
people on campus, it's perfect.

Kosta Yepifantsev: And also,
when you guys have higher

enrollments, you can offer more
programs, you can offer more

opportunities, and we're going
to talk about workforce

development in the upper
Cumberland. I do want to ask you

about Tennessee reconnect first.

But before we get to those next
questions, so let's just say

Tesla decides to build a giga
factory here, right? The amount

of people that are going to have
to be upskilled to work in that

environment is vast. If you
don't have the students in the

capital to be able to develop
those programs. That's gonna be

a hard lift.

Nicholas Bishop: It's
interesting that you pose that

question or use that example
because oftentimes, I'm

fortunate enough to find myself
at the table with our county

government, city leaders, state
leaders when these ikan All my

development projects take place.

And so when a company is looking
to relocate, so if Tesla was to

come to town, or were an
existing company looking at

expanding, one of the first
things, they asked that CEO or

that site selector is about the
workforce. Yeah. And so it's

really important to have
connectivity between your K 12,

your higher ed, make sure all of
your higher ed's are also

connected. That's one of the
first things that comes up. And

so that's where we tried to be
nimble and flexible. And if that

program doesn't exist, and we
can obviously work with the

government entities and the
private sector and try to create

that program, but you have to
have the workforce to attract

the

Kosta Yepifantsev: absolutely,
and I'll tell you, that's what

they did at the Ford plant in
West Tennessee, you know, it's

like, I don't even remember,
it's like 10,000 acres or some

crazy like that. But before Ford
would even agree to come and

build this massive operation to
build the Ford lightning, they

also had to have T CAD, you
know, build a campus on their

property so that they can create
a pipeline. Now, my question is,

because you have so much
experience in you know,

obviously the political sphere,
higher education, economic

development, is that the model?

Is there anything that you can
you poke holes in that model at

all? Or is that pretty much what
you need to do for a company

that size to come to cokeville?

Nicholas Bishop: can poke holes
in anything else? One hole? You

know, it's kind of the theory of
the cart before the horse? Yes,

the first thing I think you have
to do is you have to have a

community that's ready to
support economic development

growth. And when you get into
rural areas, you know, that

becomes a topic of issue,
because some people still really

liked the rural area. And
there's absolutely nothing wrong

with that, first had to have a
strategy and a plan. And so I

think that's often missing
sometimes is like, what really

is your strategy for community?

Is it the right strategy for
community? And do you have your

community on board, you'll never
get 100% on board, but you have

the majority. So once you figure
out that strategy, then it

becomes I think, moving to
infrastructure, kind of the

Field of Dreams, theory, build
it, and they will come but you

have to have utilities in place.

I've noticed communities where
the local government owns and

operates the utilities, they
seem to have a lot better

success. The better partnership
you have with TVA the better

success you have. So having the
strategy having the

infrastructure, then at that
point, I think it becomes

education, workforce
development, but having

community college partners,
decat partners, even university

partners that have these
programs that are set there on a

foundational level, but also
being able to be nimble enough

to turn on a dime and say, we
don't have this very specialized

it program. But this company is
creating 200 jobs, and they want

and need this program. And so
being able to work with your

partners to create that program.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So it's no
coincidence that the poorest

sickest states are also the
least educated and I think it's

critical we talk about Tennessee
reconnect because you're

literally giving anyone in
Tennessee, a free two year

degree. Will you explain this
program and how adults can

utilize these funds. I

Nicholas Bishop: was talking to
some staff earlier about

Tennessee reconnect for up for a
came to visit, you guys kind of

tossed around this phrase of 23
and 23 or get your degree and 23

Because with Tennessee
reconnect, it applies to

individuals that are 23 years of
age or older. So if you're 23

years of age or older, and you
do not yet have an associate's

degree, you're eligible for free
tuition to community college and

antique at the state of
Tennessee. You just walk in the

front door pretty much if you
can get in the front door will

take care of you from there.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I love that.

And so the difference between
Tennessee reconnect and

Tennessee promise is that
tendency promises for high

school students tend to
reconnect for better over the

age of 23 is

Nicholas Bishop: our promises
for that traditional high school

students graduating high school
and going directly into

Kosta Yepifantsev: college are
we the only state that does

that, you know,

Nicholas Bishop: Governor
governor's housing him and and

Randy Boyd started that program.

And I want to say 2015 is when
it really kind of launched in

Tennessee, and a lot of states
are looking at that there are

other states that offer free
tuition, Camino College dental

colleges, but they're relatively
new Tennessee was was definitely

a pioneer in that regard. And
it's really had, I think, a

significant impact on our
communities and our economic

status as a state.

Kosta Yepifantsev: We're going
to talk about workforce

development and the challenges
of this region. It doesn't

matter how many jobs we have
coming to the upper Cumberland

if we don't have the workforce
to fill the positions. How are

you using your experiences from
the top down and the bottom up

to break the cycle and ruler and
developing areas?

Nicholas Bishop: Well, I think
I'm still trying to figure that

out as we speak. But the one
thing I can allude to is for so

many years and some people may
have to take a drink of water if

they're listening to this but
for so many years in higher

education in general the message
has been in really just in

society honestly has been go to
college. Now people are

questioning you know, why do I
need to go to college and that's

perfectly that's actually a good
thing that question but

unfortunate Like everything else
in society, everything's so

polarized, it's one extreme to
the other. It's either go to

college and be a doctor, an
attorney or an engineer, or

don't dare step on a college
campus, they will brainwash you,

man, it's a waste of money, like
there's nowhere in between. So I

think community colleges and T
casts are that in between plays.

But I think for so long the
messaging has been, you know, go

to college. And so young folks
are looking at that. And they're

really confused by the mix
signals we're giving as a

society. So I think what we're
trying to do this next year 23,

is look at it. So here's a prime
example. For the upper carbon,

we really have like six, what I
would call career pathways that

are available to you in the
upper Karwan, meaning you can

get your education and training,
you can get an internship, work

based learning experience, and
you can get a job in these six

areas without having to leave
the overcome one, our messaging

is going to be do you want to be
a nurse, we can help you be a

nurse at Ball State without
leaving Cookeville or

Livingston, there are nursing
jobs available in Upper Carwin.

And we have those partnerships
with the hospitals and the

clinics where they're there with
us helping us get equipment,

giving us clinical
opportunities. Same thing with

manufacturing, you know, are you
interested in building things or

and repairing things and being
part of you know, the future and

what puts technology out there,
you can do that here in the

upper Carmilla. You can go work
in the near star zinc mine

operating a mining machine, 14
or feet above ground and make

$60,000 a year and you can get
there through Ball State. So I

think it's that moreso of you
know, what do you want to do

from a career standpoint, we can
help you get there versus just

telling people, Hey, go to
college, because colleges as a

whole, but definitely Community
College has really struggled

with something called a
retention, right? So about 48%

of the students that go through
college will not graduate. And I

think a lot of that's because
they're not really put on a good

pathway to begin with. They
don't know what the end in mind

is.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Well, I mean,
Tennessee Tech's graduation

rates only 54%. So

Nicholas Bishop: that's
successful. I mean, that's yeah,

relative to 48%. Yeah. And
that's what the interesting

thing with Tennessee Promise
Tennessee reconnect, even with

free tuition, that still shows
that there are certain barriers

and hurdles, and we have to help
people address those, whether

whether we realize that or not.

But I think a lot of that goes
back to your mission, your

purpose, why are you in college,
and if you don't really

understand that begin with
that's gonna be detrimental to

your success.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Who's your
competition in this area,

Nicholas Bishop: we're great
partners with T cat and

Tennessee Tech, people that live
in the upper Karlen. Man,

they're very fortunate because
they have a lot of opportunities

and options. We don't really
have competition. I love it.

Actually, some of these online,
I'll get in trouble for this,

but somebody's online and for
profit schools, you know, we

have some programs that we can
offer on the workforce side for,

you know, a couple $1,000. But
unfortunately, they're not

eligible for federal financial
aid. So we have to find other

ways to help people find it. But
some of these for profit schools

offer those same programs for
like, 18 $19,000. But they're

eligible for federal financial
aid and 6% interest. Yeah, well,

if there's any lawmakers
listening, you know, but yeah,

so there, we do have that issue.

Kosta Yepifantsev: You guys are
uniquely positioned, because I

feel like this is a perfect time
where people are looking for

value. And, you know, when
you've got, you know, your

brother in law, who, you know,
works on AC units, which is not

a, you know, I'm not trying to
say that that's a bad thing.

Right, exactly. He works on AC
units, and he makes $125,000 a

year because, you know, nobody
wants to work in construction or

in some type of trade, you know,
whether it's plumbing or, you

know, septic service, right. And
so people are trying to thread

the needle between like, Okay,
let's see, I could spend $30,000

A year and go to a four year
university and come out with a

liberal arts degree and work in
a museum and make $17 an hour.

Or I could go and actually find
a specialized skill at a free

community college and then come
out and, you know, make 80 or

60. And then, you know, when I
want to find myself and find,

you know, maybe a passion of
mine, then I can go and do some

either some online classes at a
major four year, or even go on

campus for that matter. But I
think you guys are uniquely

positioned to help people get
the first leg up. And that's

great. Yeah. And that's

Nicholas Bishop: I kind of was
saying earlier, as we Community

College will do more for
someone's economic mobility than

an Ivy League university will.

So I just hope people figure
that out and hear that and take

advantage of it.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I think they
are. Yeah, I think they

definitely are. So hopefully you
get to that 900 enrollee goal

soon as someone that seen every
facet of how we develop and grow

our workforce and economy.

What's our greatest challenge as
a community and how should we

move forward are,

Nicholas Bishop: you know, I
think part of it, we've alluded

to some of it here, but it's
that college going, right? Yeah,

we need to get people in the
college. But it doesn't need to

be for the sake of going to
college. It needs to be a teak

at community college,
university, whatever it is, but

it needs to be you know,
attached to a purpose and a

mission and align with some type
of career go and workforce base.

And then with that is those some
of those wraparound services

support services are so many
obstacles and barriers just to

get through college, those need
to be addressed. Going back to

this mixed message in society of
you know, need higher education.

But you know, often hear people
say, you don't need to go to

college, you should go down to
the T cat. Well, the C and T cat

stands for college. So we need
to value and not speak negative

for people that go to trades go
in the construction area, we

need to give as much credit and
value to an industry certificate

or a T cat diploma is we do a
university degree. And so I

think that will help drive more
people in that path. And then on

this is like taking going take a
left turn. But you asked about

challenges, you know, the drug
epidemic requirement. There's so

many grandparents raising their
kids are so many kids affected

by this drug epidemic. I don't
feel like it gets enough

attention. And that's a problem.

I'll see it in education. I'll
see it in the workforce. I see

it everywhere and see it in the
court system, criminal justice

system, amass a huge barrier.

That's a lot of reason why you
have vacancies. I mean, you can

drive around any town now in
Tennessee. And there's employers

have signs up that says no drug
tests required. It's crazy years

ago, we would think that's a
joke. No way. But and these are

reputable companies. Yeah. And
so it's and these people are

also driving up and down
Interstate 40. But we need to

help those people. We don't need
to, you know, shot them. It's a

problem and also don't feel like
as a community. And as a

government. I don't feel like
we're doing enough to address

it. And it's, it's a trickle
down effect.

Kosta Yepifantsev: You think
that that's the major

contributor to the 11,000
vacancies that we have right

now?

Nicholas Bishop: I think it's a
huge contributor. Yeah, I think

the pandemic really turned the
world on its head and I keep

going back to the pandemic. But
I think people figure out how to

live in a different mode. I also
think the gig economy has some

effect into this. You may have
11,000 job vacancies, but

there's also a lot of people
doing gig economy work. And that

hurts the community as well.

Because some of those not
picking on people if you're in

the gig economy, but some of
those don't make it back to the

tax base. Yeah,

Kosta Yepifantsev: it should
next year, though. Well, yeah.

So

Nicholas Bishop: it'd be hard to
catch all. But you know, that's

the other piece of it. And you
look at how data gets gathered

for a lot of these economic
reports, and so forth. There's a

lot of data that's unattainable,
right. And so what we see in

reports, that's what people have
access to.

Kosta Yepifantsev: So Morgan's,
gonna get mad at me, because she

says, I've been talking too much
today. But I do want to share.

And I want to piggyback off of
exactly what you're saying. And

there's one more thing that I
have now added to my tool belt

as to why this is happening with
our workforce and trying to

understand the problem. So you
know, obviously, the gig

economy, and like you said,
they're not reporting those

people in in the unemployment
rate, they're essentially out of

the workforce. Now, the other
thing that I think is so

important to consider and one
thing that I just honestly

haven't ever thought of, I was
having lunch with a good friend

of mine, Kevin Christopher, and
he brought it to my attention.

So Wall Street Journal wrote an
article about Gen Z. Okay, so

I'm not going to knock Gen Z,
because I like Gen Z, but

there's just something that I
have to share from this article

that I think is it's profound.

The generation that was born,
you know, like 99 to 2012 is

considered the Gen Z generation.

Well, that is around the time
that Facebook was being created,

the Internet was finally kind of
getting its footing and

exploding into this thing that
we see now. And do you have

kids? No, sir. Okay, so I am
very concerned and very aware of

everything that my kids do on
their tablets. And I also have,

you know, screentime, password,
stuff like that. Back when Gen Z

was growing up, parents didn't
do any of that, because we

didn't know what was going on.

You know, it was like literally,
like, I think back to when I was

in high school. And you know, my
dad had no idea what Facebook

was, or hell, he never even went
on a MySpace, you know what I'm

saying? And so, like these kids
were growing up in this ethos

and becoming adults in the
Instagram era. So they see this

glamorized way of life. Right.

So the 11,000 jobs that we have
open, I would venture to bet

that 85% of them are entry level
jobs with an entry level wage.

Now who in the world would want
to post a picture on Instagram

of them working in McDonald's
flipping burgers, right, nobody.

So I think that we have
possibly, in a roundabout way,

almost created what I would call
a lost generation.

Nicholas Bishop: Absolutely. We
could do a whole segment on Oh,

I think I was the last
generation that got to play

outside. Yeah, it's no weird
because because like the

Internet became available really
kind of like, you know, you're

graduating high school, we
didn't really have cell phones

till we got into college.

Texting wasn't a thing until
like, two or three years into

college. Yeah, we knew what
computers were we had access to

them, but it just not like it is
today. So if it doesn't already

exist, I would not be surprised
at some point in the future some

higher education institution
doesn't develop a degree in like

YouTube are influencing Yeah.

Oh, I'm sure Instagram, whatever
is out there. Now. I do think

there's an issue there of work
ethic. But there's also I think,

some value. You look at the
values of that generation

compared to my generation and
and our parents generation,

grandparents generation, I think
part of that workforce piece

those vacancies is that the
younger generation, and you

can't really blame them for
this, but they want to have this

work life balance. Absolutely.

For my generation, my parents
generation, you know a lot about

how much money am I gonna make
gonna feed my family. And

there's nothing wrong with that
either. But our parents

generation, you know, they it
was common to keep a job for

2530 years, the same company
retire and go live the dream,

that was the American dream,
will now even monitor your

generation not counting the
younger generation, they're

going to have something like
4050 jobs is the prediction in

their 30 year lifetime as a
professional. I've had what, two

or three jobs in 15 years. I
mean, I can't imagine doing

that. But I think they want this
work life balance. Yeah, they're

not there to sign up to be a
lifelong person to a company,

and that's fine. But they want
to be able to take vacations,

they want to be able to have
that time off, they want to be

able to travel or spend time
with their family. There's

nothing wrong with that. And I
think the reason a lot of them

are there, though, is because
what they watched their parents

do, yeah, I don't know, a lot of
decisions I've made in my

career, my personal house,
because I've watched what my dad

did and what advice he would
give me, you know, he would

always say, if nothing else
shows you what not to do. Was

this his favorite long? So I
think there's, I think there's

some value in the water looking
as a younger generation, would

you also still have to figure
out who's gonna put the bricks

up? Who's gonna fix the machine?

And exactly, you know, make the
burgers. I mean,

Kosta Yepifantsev: and I hate to
go on a tangent, but I just feel

like it's so important as we're
talking about workforce

development and economic
development. Because if you

think about it, these vacancies,
these entry level vacancies,

they're not going to fill
themselves. It's like this clash

between people that, you know,
need to hire, and people that

don't want to take those
positions. So where are you

going to find those people?

Nicholas Bishop: And we could go
down the rabbit hole of politics

with this, but that also opens
up the problem you're looking at

with immigration. Yeah, not
being able to fill these entry

level jobs is really part of an
immigration and if Congress

would ever get their act
together and decide to look at

legit immigration reform, which
they haven't done in 30 years,

but people need to understand
how to connect the dots. Yes.

And all these things, you know,
unemployment, health care, the

tax base, your potholes, whether
or not your kids teacher gets

funded, immigration, all those
things are tied together. Yeah,

drugs, crime, like all that is
connected. And you can go back

to education, economic workforce
development, you know, and that

the other challenge, too, is
it's there's also some problems

with our success. We create all
these high paying jobs. And so

people might be working at a
hospitality job making $12 an

hour. Now they can go to Amazon,
or the Facebook meta data

center, or UPS and make 18 $19
an hour, they should do that.

Absolutely. That's that's the,
again, the American dream, they

should advance. But then it
fills this vacancy, you know, of

those entry level jobs. And you
have folks like my nephew refers

my wife and I's dinks, di N Ks,
double income, no kids, this is

also affecting our education,
because by the year 2025, it may

not impact us here as soon as it
will the rest of the nation. But

the number of students
graduating high school starts to

decrease in 2025, because less
people are having children. And

so if less people are having
children pandemics going through

all this crazy stuff, then who's
going to fill those jobs. So

it's a tough quagmire to figure
out.

Kosta Yepifantsev: I don't
discredit the fact that people

in the Gen Z generation want to
work a job that they are

passionate about, and that they
love and they and they should

they should go to the Ball
State, they should get a two

year degree. They should go earn
money making, you know, a living

wage 5060 $70,000 a year. They
should do all of those things.

The reason that I bring them up
that generation up and I know

that they're not what's the term
monolithic? Right? They're all

obviously diverse, but I bring
them up because there is no good

solution to those 11,000
vacancies, which is a microcosm

of the you know, of the much
larger problem. At some point.

Somebody's like you just said
someone's going to have to come

Like the dots like Good grief,
you

Nicholas Bishop: know, for the
last 10 years, probably 20, I'd

say 10 years, that's pretty much
been my involvement with

economic development 1015 years,
the strategy has been very much

incentive driven. So companies
would relocate or expand based

on where they could get
incentives, that's drastically

going to have to change, it's
gonna have to be very strategic

in, I make XYZ product, I need
XYZ skill set, work, and I go

get that skill set. And
communities are going to have to

figure that out as well as to,
we can't just recruit everything

and everybody because we're not
gonna go to fill all these jobs,

we're gonna have to get
communities that are like our

tea communities, or
manufacturing communities or

health care communities. And
that's the only way I can think

of where you could really know
that you can fill those jobs is

that if you align the skills of
your community with the jobs,

you're recruiting, because it's
kind of been the Wild West, you

know, for last 1015 20 years of
working, we get this incentive,

we're gonna get this tax write
pilot, and let's build this

factory and create 1000 jobs,
but there's not 1000 people

there to exactly jobs. And
that's worked in the past to

some degree, but that's
drastically going to have to

change.

Kosta Yepifantsev: Nick, thank
you so much for coming on the

show. I mean, you are a
invaluable asset to volunteer

state. And I am very impressed
with how you've been able to,

like you said, quote, unquote,
connect the dots between all the

different problems. And
obviously, I can see why you

have success at Ball State in
terms of being able to raise

enrollment and, you know,
develop programs that bring more

community involvement. So I
think that's great.

Nicholas Bishop: Thank you for
having me.

Kosta Yepifantsev: We always
like to end the show on a high

note, who is someone that makes
you better when you're together?

Nicholas Bishop: That would be
my wife, Micah, often say that

she's my biggest supporter,
biggest cheerleader, but she's

also my biggest critic. She's my
biggest supporter, but she's

also the first one to tell me
when I'm wrong or call me out or

critique me and so iron sharpens
iron.

Morgan Franklin: Thank you for
joining us on this episode of

Better Together with Kosta
Yepifantsev. If you've enjoyed

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Kosta Yepifantsev is a Kosta

Yepifantsev Production. Today's
episode was written and produced

by Morgan Franklin post
production mixing and editing by

Mike Franklin. Want to know more
about Kosta visit us at

kostayepifantsev.com We're
better together.