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This is a space for coaches, trainers, and leaders who love the game — but don’t want the game to cost them their family, their integrity, or their soul.
Here, we talk about leadership, pressure, culture, identity, and the quiet tensions no one prepares you for when you step into coaching.
This isn’t about chasing wins at all costs.
It’s about restoring what the game was meant to form in us — and in the players we lead.
This podcast is presented by the Beloved Coaches Collective, a community committed to coaching from identity, not insecurity.
I’m Coach Sanders.
Let’s redeem the game — one coach at a time.
Redeeming the game
Redeeming the game.
We did it all.
Hey, hey, hey.
Redeeming the game.
Redeeming the game.
We in the game
Audio Only - All Participants:
Welcome back everybody to the
Redeeming the Game podcast.
I'm your host, Coach Matt Sanders.
As you know, the bald man is here.
And, uh, today, um, I am joined by, um,
a, a young man, way younger than me, but
a young man, um, that has become, like,
one of my best friends in the world.
Uh, he runs with myself and Coach
Phil and Coach C in, in this
basketball missions community.
And, um, I, I just wanna start by
saying that, uh, when I say that I
love Joseph Lewis III, AKA Trey, uh,
from back in the day, that was a bar.
Anyways, um, I j- I just loveâ¦
I love him.
I love you, bro.
I really appreciate you.
And, uh, your story is going
to touch so many coaches on
this, uh, on this call today.
And, um, and for those of you listening,
this is a, uh, a bucket list for
me on the podcast, number three.
I've had my boy Phil and my boy
C, and now I'm gonna have my
boy Joe, and this is a lead-up.
W- somehow we gonna end up on a
podcast together, all four of us.
How we're gonna do that, I don't know.
We're gonna find a calendar
that works in the coming weeks,
but we're gonna make it happen.
And so I, I justâ¦
I wantedâ¦
I, I just wanted to say it up front.
So we're, we're, we are still going
to stick and stay in this series
that, that, that was so epically
titled, When the Game Isn't Enough.
And so today I got my boy
Joseph Lewis III on here.
Welcome, my brother.
Thank you, bro.
So good to be here, man.
I'm excited.
So, uh, today we're
gonna, we're gonna shift.
We, we ha- we had Coach Phil, who's a
basketball missionary and a trainer, and
Coach C, who's a basketball missionary
and a trainer, but a trainer first.
And then we've got this guy who
is on the whole other side of the,
the, the planet from us as coaches.
Uh, a coach in his own right, but,
but more importantly, um, a player.
And, uh, somebody who has, uh, seen
basketball at its highest level.
Uh, he accomplished the thing
that most all kids dream about.
Not necessarily me.
I didn't even know I was dreaming about
anything with basketball, uh, outside
of playing at Clemson University, which
never happened, and that's a whole
nother story for a whole nother day.
But, um, most kids dream about
playing professionally, but most
importantly in the, the, the NBA,
uh, and maybe even overseas, and
this guy, this guy eventually, uh, in
his life, uh, was gifted that dream.
So, uh, without, without further
ado, um, what happens when you reach
the dream is kinda the overarching
theme for this, this podcast.
So, uh, Joseph, I, I wanna start
before we get deep into the questions.
I wanna, want you to tell me a little
bit about- The, the, the short, the
short version of the journey into
college, um, and how you landed
where you landed, and then we will
dive in deeply into the questions.
Uh, yeah, my, my college journey
was interesting 'cause it was like,
for me, I was like the NIL transfer
portal before it was a thing.
Uh, I played at three different
universities, Penn State, Cleveland
State, and the University of Louisville.
But, you know, taking you back to that
journey, like, uh, coming out of high
school You know, obviously my dream was
always to play into the NBA, and we're
gonna talk about, you know, childhood
and that dream and, and the vision- Yeah
to get there, right?
But, um, I knew in order to do
that, I had to, you know, go
D1 and play against the best.
And, uh, uh, I chose Penn State.
At the time, I was recruited,
um, by a man named Ed DeChellis.
Um, but right before, like
literally a week or two before I
went to the university, he ends
up leaving and going to the Navy.
Uh, and he gotâ¦
Yeah, he got a coaching job in the Navy,
and so I'm, I'm going into a new system.
I had a chance to, you know,
decommit and, and go somewhere else.
Um, but the new coach came in and, uh,
needed, you know, players for that year.
And so, uh, I can get into
a whole crazy story when it
comes to my, my freshman year.
It was one of the most difficult years of
my life, um, in, in my basketball journey.
Uh, but yeah, coming out of
high school, I was, uhâ¦
I had just came off of taking my
team to a state championship, uh,
at Garfield Heights High School.
Shout out Sonny Johnson, and, you
know, the whole Johnson family.
Unbelievable sports family here- Come on.
Let's go ⦠in Cleveland, Ohio.
And, uh, just amazing times.
So I'm coming off of riding a high, right?
I'm top, you know, 20
players in the country.
Um, you know, number one player in Ohio.
Just, I split Mr.
Basketball with, uh, Trey Burke, so
me and him were going head-to-head.
I didn't know that.
That's news to me.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
He, he won, he wonâ¦
It was so close of a race.
Our stats were i- identical, and
we met up in the state final four.
Um, it was so crazy, like
it was like a crazy race.
They gave him Mr.
Basketball, and they gave
me Co-Player of the Year.
It was just like-
Okay ⦠like neck and neck.
And so, um, but yeah, that
was a amazing journey.
So I'mâ¦
Mind you, I'm coming off of that high,
and I'm thinking I'm one and done.
Like that, that was my mentality.
I go, uh, to college, and it was
nothing close to being a one and done.
I end up going five years of
college, not just- Yeah, come on.
Yeah.
Right?
So it just shows you, your,
your plan goes nothing like, you
know, God's plan for your life.
But, um, I had one of the
toughest, um, freshman years.
Um, and like I said, that's
a story for another day.
But transferred to Cleveland State.
Uh, then finally, uh, a- after three
years there, uh, I had the opportunity
to play at, uh, the historical and,
um, you know, University of Louisville
for Hall of Fame coach Rick Pitino.
Um- Shout out Coach P.
Yeah.
Shout out Coach P.
Yeah, shout out Coach P.
Shout out Coach Waters.
Okay.
I gotta shout him out.
Yeah, go hit him.
Hit 'em all.
Hit 'em all.
Hit 'em all.
'Cause yeah, Coach Waters was, you know,
a coach that taught me so much when I,
at, during my time at Cleveland State.
And, um, you know, from just not only
on the basketball court, but off the
basketball court, he had really a desire
to raise up men, you know- Come on
um, and teach us godly principles, and
so, uh, I really honor- Come on, Coach
Waters ⦠and respect Coach Waters.
Yeah.
Come on, Coach Waters.
All right.
Well, I, I think it's a great,
uh, uh, obviously you have a
podcast, so this is easy for you.
It's a great segue into
the first question.
So take me back to the, to the, uh, the
young, the young buck who dreamed, dreamed
the dream that all the kids dreamed about
being a professional basketball player.
But what did you believe it would
make you or would give you in the end?
Wow.
So yeah, that's like a, a twofold answer.
I would say just growing up,
just taking you back to like,
you know, young Trey, right?
Yeah.
Before I start going by Joseph.
Uh- Yeah ⦠I was just a
kid who loved the game of
basketball, played it every day.
Uh, I like to say that, you know, I
didn't choose the game, the game chose
me, just because, like, I just had
this crazy passion for the game, and
I don't even know where it came from.
Um, now I know.
I know it was always God that
placed that desire in my heart.
Come on.
But man, when I tell you I would just
like, you know, dream of, um, playing
in the NBA and, um, would always,
I was always, like, in my backyard
or in a driveway and just shooting,
doing the countdown, three, two,
one, imagine I'm hitting, you know,
buzzer beaters and imagining I'm my
f- my favorite basketball players
and, you know, the typical kid stuff.
So that was just always the dream.
Um, but what did I believe
it was gonna bring me?
I was, I was sold the lie like
everybody else that, you know,
making it to the NBA means all
the problems in the world go away.
It means you have all the money
to do whatever you wanna do.
Uh, it means you have, you know, all
this fame and everything that, you
know, comes with that life is, is
now you, you l- you have a perfect
life and no more worries, right?
That's the lie that you're
sold when you're a kid.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, so- Hmm ⦠I had to just
learn through so much life experience
that, you know, that can be, you
know, nothing further than the truth.
Okay.
So let's, let's, uh, let's give some
people the context, some context here.
Give everybody listening some context.
So you g- in a, in a short synopsis,
how do you end up in the NBA?
Who do you end up with?
And this is the burning question,
did you feel like you had
finally arrived when you made it?
Wow.
All right, so, uh, my path to
the NBA was not traditional.
You know, I played, like I said, at
five, uh, for five years in college.
Uh, and then I go undrafted,
and I remember that day, um,
I thought I had a opportunity.
I knew it was a small chance I would get
drafted 'cause I didn't have my best year.
Um, and uh, I remember going
undrafted, but I was like, man, I'm
gonna find a way onto a NBA roster.
And uh, my path started overseas.
And so I went overseas and I
played in Germany, uh, for two
years and I, I played in France.
And then coming off that year in
France, uh, I remember my agent calling
me up like, "Yo, you got some NBA
teams that are interested in bringing
you in and taking a look at you."
And I was like, "From all the
way over here, they see me?"
So now that was a really cool
moment because, you know,
that was always the dream.
Yeah.
Uh, and at first I didn't
even wanna go overseas.
Um, honestly- Sure ⦠I felt like
I was a failure going overseas.
Sure, sure.
And I didn't even realize, you know, I, I
had ended up making it to a Euro Cup team
and I didn't even realize how great of an
accomplishment that was back then because-
Wow ⦠my mind was so set on the NBA.
And- My goodness ⦠that
was all I wanted to do.
'Cause you gotta think from a kid,
that's, that was just a dream.
100%, absolutely.
I didn't know anything about
overseas basketball, so I'm
getting over there and it'sâ¦
And then it's a, it's such a great life.
I'm enjoying it.
But like I said, my mind was always,
hey, I'm, I'm gonna make it to the NBA.
So when I had a opportunity,
it was actually two teams that
showed me the most interest.
It was the Utah Jazz and
the Portland Trail Blazers.
And mind you, I had just played, um, at
the University of Louisville with Donovan
Mitchell, and at the time he was at Utah.
Um, and so I had made that decision
to, to, to go to Utah and I signed
a Exhibit 10 deal with them.
And uh, I remember playing, you
know, and, and, and getting ready,
uh, and I finally signed a contract,
you know, with the Utah Jazz.
And then before the
season starts, I get hurt.
I get hurt, and I end up getting my,
uh, cut and, and have to- Mm ⦠you
know, work my way back, but I still
played the majority of the year
with their, their G League team.
And it was so wild because, okay, during
that time period, like, I'm, I'm here, I
signed a contract, I'm where I wanna be,
but I'm not at the same time, you know?
Yeah.
I remember, I remember, you know,
wearing that NBA jersey and, and
having my name in the locker room, um,
with all the other guys on the team.
And then I remember getting cut,
and I remember that name coming
down and somebody else going
right there and replacing you.
And it's just so crazy because
it's like, yeah, I made it to where
I wanna be, but I didn't stay.
Yeah.
So what I tell people sometimes is that
the thing I get celebrated for most
brings me the most pain because it's the
area of my life where I was rejected.
You know?
It's, for a player, you never wanna just
make it somewhere and, and get cut, right?
But everybody's like, "Oh,
you made it to so-and-so."
But it's just like, for me it's
like- Yeah ⦠that wasn't the dream.
The dream- Yeah ⦠when I was
a kid was, you know, I go on
to make the All-Star roster.
Yeah, sure.
You know?
Then I go win an N- then I go win a,
a, a championship and, you know, I'm
playing, I'm hitting buzzer beaters.
None of that happened.
I was the last guy on the bench,
you know- Yeah ⦠in the NBA.
So- Yeah ⦠it was like, man,
this, this ain't the dream.
And so, you know- Mm ⦠and so
many guys have that story, you know?
The NBA- So many ⦠is made up of 450
players, and think about how so many
are, are right on that edge or didn't
get that opportunity, or do get that
opportunity but then are not able to
showcase, you know, who they really are.
And so I know there's so many players out
here who can, uh, even understand this.
Even players who didn't make
it to that high of a level.
Yeah.
But even just on the, to d- make it
D1, you know, or, or so close orâ¦
It, it's so many stories within
basketball that causes so many
players to have, um, rejection,
man, and, and, and I'm one of them.
It's powerful because there's
this space where, man, I, it, me
and you could do this for hours.
If youâ¦
Like, I, okay, I say this incredibly
humbly, and I don't mean this to pat
my back, but I recruited thir- 13
dudes and one girl who eventually
signed pro contracts, none of which
played in the NBA, but one who played
in the G League, and every single
one of them sound just like you.
It's crazy.
Their, their stories are so wrapped
in this These opportunities and it,
and it, like it either, it either
builds on itself and it never, it never
fulfills, or it builds on itself and
when you reach the pinnacle, you're
like, "Oh, this is all that's here?
Like, I, I got 10 stacks in my account,
but I'm, I'm empty as a, as a trash can?
Like where, really where the title of this
series is where the game isn't enough.
Did you have that moment when you,
uh, I, I know you were rejected, but
did you have that moment where it's
like th- well, this is really not it.
Like, this isn't enough?
Yeah, no.
Uh, so much throughout my
career, um, I felt that.
And a lot of times it's because
what I felt at the beginning of, you
know, playing basketball when I was
a kid, and the joy that came with the
game, um, a lot of that gets lost in
the business of basketball, right?
Yeah.
When people are, you know, treating
this game as, you know, life or
death, and it has become, you know,
the source of people's livelihoods.
Remember, it was a game.
At the beginning, it was a game.
Yeah.
You know?
And, and when I played it, I had fun.
And now I'm playing it for security, and
it becomes a, a totally different thing.
So, um, and now everybody else
around you is also playingâ¦
or, you know, involved with it
for the concept of security,
and thinking that's where, you
know, your livelihood comes from.
And so I know we gonna have to hit- Wow
⦠that, that- Man, we about to hitâ¦
We are.
Yeah.
We're gonna hit it, but
you- So- You teasing it.
You teasing it.
You tease it.
Listen, it's not like you don't
know what you're doing on here.
I told- I told one of my former players
last week on the call, I was like,
"Yo, you need to have your own podcast.
You good at teasing and- ⦠and,
uh, and, uh, segues."
Uh- Yeah, eventually.
Y'all see the P2P behind me.
Yeah.
The P2P podcast is definitely
coming, so- And you know what?
Itâ¦
Y- you know what?
Go plug it.
Go ahead.
You might as well do it now.
Yeah, I mean, well, well, P2P,
it literally came out of that
season of realizing that, um, you
know, the game wasn't giving me
what I was looking for, right?
Yeah.
I was, I was making money, and
this is even when I w- uh, after
the short stint with the NBA.
Uh, I went back overseas.
You know, I'm making good money, you
know, things are going well, but I'm
feeling like there's so much more to life.
Like w- you know, and then I'm still- Yeah
⦠dealing with the whole politics of the
game and, uh, the business of basketball,
where it's like, it's, it's not becoming
a joy because you're dealing with so much
stuff off the court and with management.
And, um, so I, I wroteâ¦
I end up writing this book
called Peace to Perform.
Peace to Perform, and it was r-
literally a book that helps other
athletes discover their, you know,
true relationship with God, uh, or
discover their true identity in Christ.
And- I wrote it because
I needed it at the time.
And I, you know, I'm, I'mâ¦
I was always a- Okay ⦠a, a
player who, you know, was serious
about, you know, doing devotions,
you know, whether before a game.
But I was like, huh, I wonder, I
wonder what a, you know, a devotional
would sound specifically for athletes.
So I wrote that.
And, um, 'cause I always felt as I
was overseas, like, like I told you,
I was making good money, I was even
playing well, but I was feeling like,
man, there's gotta be more to life.
Like, this- Yeah ⦠this game
isn't bringing me the fulfillment
that I thought it would bring me.
And, um, I also realized, you
know, now in hindsight, that I
was making basketball an idol.
Yeah.
Come on.
I was placing it, you know-
Yeah ⦠on the throne of my heart.
Ooh.
And only, only Christ
c- can have that spot.
And so he really, uh, we'll,
we'll talk about that too.
He really struck me.
Yeah, let's do that.
Okay.
So the greatâ¦
Okay.
So shout out P2P.
Uh, where can they find it?
It's on all, all the platforms, right?
Yep, just, uh, @PeaceToPerform.
@PeaceToPerform.
Okay.
All right.
So, uh, you, you've been evaluated,
you've been scouted, you're
entire- I mean, every- scouts, the
coaches, uh, contracts, statistics,
like you've had this evaluation
hovering over you your whole life.
Um, what does that what
does that constantâ¦
I'm, I'm, I'm kind of, like
Stephen's saying, it's kind of
heavy on me right now, that's why
I'm laughing this awkward laugh.
Like, what does that, what does that kind
of constant evaluation do for, you know,
a young man's, a young person's identity?
Man.
So when you're constantly being evaluated
and you're constantly being, yeah, like,
what it does, it creates a pressure.
It creates this constant
pressure to perform, right?
And so it makes you, um-
Always have this performance mindset-
Yeah ⦠where you have to put on, uh,
and if you don't, you know, your value
is determined by- Ooh ⦠you know,
how well, you know, you can perform.
And so when you're playing well,
oh, and everything is good.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
But when you're not- Yeah ⦠now
you can go through these, like,
tremendous lows and these, these slumps.
Um, and it, it really affects your
identity and who you are because
now you're taking what you do and
you're saying, "That's who I am."
So that's the whole thing
about peace to perform.
Peace to perform is knowing, like, who
you are And that it's not rooted in your
performance, and actually as a byproduct,
that frees you up to actually perform and
do the things that, you know- Yeah ⦠God
is, the, the gifts that he's giving you.
Yeah.
Come on.
Um, and so, um, but yeah, so just talking
about the, the pressures that, you know,
being an athlete and, and I think all
athletes can relate to this because we are
always, you know, evaluated by how well
we're doing in our, in our sport, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So what happened is I didn't realize how
that same conditioning, um, transferred
over into my relationship with the Lord.
Ooh.
You know?
And, uh, you were one of the first
persons who, who explained and broke
down to me performance-based love.
I remember, like, it was like one of
the first times we met, we, I was,
I was sitting in the back of a car
and you, it was me, you and Phil.
Oh, gosh.
And man, you was just, you know,
explaining performance-based love, and
I remember just hearing, I was like,
"Man, that's been my whole life."
Yeah.
And simply put, like, performance-based
love is, is, you know, that it, it
went from just the basketball floor
to my relationship with God because-
Mm ⦠you know, I believe that I
deserve love if I performed well- Mm
even for God.
So if I'm reading my word, if
I'm praying, if I'm fasting,
if I'm doing all these things-
Yeah ⦠now I'm worthy of his love.
But- Yeah ⦠when I'm not doing
these things, he doesn't love me.
Mm.
And that's so far from the truth, and
that's what- Come on ⦠you know, has
handicapped my relationship with God,
and it's also, uh, held me back in
sports as well because now you've added
so much pressure and conditions around,
you know, your ability, you know, to
go out there and, and, and play free.
Wow.
A- and, and Iâ¦
Oh, man, this thing, we can
go for three days on this.
But- Yeah ⦠uh, so what happens is
that, that you said something earlier.
I'm reading a book.
Shout out C.
Baxter Kruger, uh, Doc as they call him,
reading his book The Great Dance, and
man, you said something in there that it-
You said it right before we, I asked you
the question, but then you brought it up
without even knowing you brought it up.
The thing that we want more than
anything else, everybody on this
planet, we, the one thing that we all
want, if you had a genie in a bottle
and you could get one thing, sincerely
the one thing we want is assurance.
And you and I thought through
our performance it was going
to br- bring assurance to our
identity, and it does not.
In fact, it does the opposite.
It sucks it right out of you.
Because at the end of the day,
you're just completely empty, right?
Yeah.
And then, and then there's the, the,
the parcel of faith that's, that's
aligned with assurance, right?
Blessed assurance, right?
Jesus is mine, right?
Th- that, that assurance is, and
it, it is a, a, um, a concrete
foundation for who we are, right?
But the problem is, is we have marred it.
We have made itâ¦
We've made sports and the
performance the same as assurance,
and it just doesn't work.
And so then this is,
this'll, I'll, I'llâ¦
We'll end this segment this way.
So when that doesn't happen, and you
get rejected or the, quote-unquote,
"the team doesn't want you"â¦
And just FYI, I haveâ¦
Bro, I, I'm, I'm actually ministering
to an NFL player right now who's been
released three times, and he is like,
this dude is killing it in the, in
the, uh, uh, the philanthropy scene.
Like, the dude is blowing up, but
he wants to be on an NFL roster.
And man, I am just like, "You can't.
Don't, don't lean on it.
Don't lean on it, 'cause
it's gonna justâ¦
When they keep telling you no,
just keep going, you know?"
And I'm, I just wanna say to him
like, "It's not gonna ever be enough.
It's not gonna do it."
So what is that like for you
now looking back on it when
they were like, "No, we don'tâ¦
You got hurt, and you're done"?
Yeah.
No, it really hurts.
And another thing that I underestimated,
and a lot of people do, is, is
the need to actually grieve.
Mm.
You know?
Uh, 'cause sometimes we just
tuck stuff under the rug or act
like it doesn't really bother
us when, when things really do.
Um- Come on ⦠and, um, yeah-
Awesome ⦠just, just to go through
grief, 'cause some things, it, it
really does hurt, and you need to
take some time to process that.
So I don't know who that's for,
but whatever we lose in life.
And it doesn't have to
just be a person, you know?
But if you have lost a person,
like that's, that's something that
we have to actually take time to
grieve and to talk to people about.
Um- Come on ⦠and I don't think
we just do a good job of that in
general, 'cause it's all like,
"Hey, let's-" Not as men, for sure
yeah, let's move on, you know?
We move on to the next thing.
Um, so, um, but I've just realized how
much I've had to grieve, um- Mm ⦠you
know, things that meant a lot to me
that, you know, didn't turn out the
way I thought it should've turned out.
Um, but in it, what you realize is, is
God's like perfect plan in it, right?
Mm-hmm.
So, but just taking you back to
that moment, I would say- You know,
for me also growing up, I was not
somebody who a lot of people believed
I could make it that far in life.
You know, I'm not that tall.
I'm not super, you know, super athletic.
Um, I say that, but then I just
tested my vertical to, a couple
weeks ago, and I, I was 39.
So I don't know.
Oh, hey.
Okay.
I, I, I was almost a
40, a 40-inch vertical.
I don't know where that came
from, you know, and I'm 33.
But no, but seriously, I wasn't,
like, dunking on people crazy
and, and doing all these things.
So it wasn't like I, I was like a sure,
you know, pick to go D1 and play at,
you know, these different universities
and have a opportunity to play pro.
And so I always had this chip on
my shoulder as a young kid from
all these people who doubted me.
And, um I really wanted to have
the, um, people's approval, man.
I think that goes back to assurance.
Like- Yeah.
Yeah ⦠I wanted people to
see me in this light, right?
And so many people had that story.
Like, man, I wanna, I, I
wanna prove people wrong.
And they say, "I wanna
prove myself right."
But that whole focus is so self-centered.
Yeah.
You know?
It's, it's all about you, you know-
Yeah ⦠at the end of the day.
And, um, but I really-
Selfish ⦠yeah, it is.
But I realized, like, the root of that
was, like, I wanted, I wanted people
to see me as somebody successful.
Like, I wanted people to be
like, "Man, man, you did it.
You beat all the odds."
And, um, and there's a part of
that, I think that is, um, just
how we are wired as human beings.
Like, the, you know, the d- desire to be
successful, there's nothing wrong with
being successful, but it's like, why?
If i- if it's, if the root is I'm in it to
prove people wrong or because people- Yeah
hurt me, I wanna, you know, that- 100%
⦠that creates, you know, this whole
⦠And that, that was my whole thing.
Like, I, I really, "Oh, you doubt
me or you don't think I can do it?
Oh, I'm about to show you I can."
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And, uh, I just, I, until, you know,
more recent years, I didn't realize how,
how self-centered, you know, my whole,
you know, approach to, to the game was.
So when I made it to those places, I'm
like, "Look, now what can y'all say?"
And then when that was taken from me,
it's like, oh, now I don't have it anymore
to hold over- Yeah ⦠people's heads.
Mm.
So instead of just enjoying the
journey that God placed me in
and what He's allowed me to see,
I didn't appreciate it for that.
No, it was like- Come
on ⦠I needed more.
I needed more.
You know?
And so that's what you're talking about
when you say, like, it's, it's never
gonna fulfill you if- No ⦠if the
reason you're in it is for, you know,
to hold o- over other people's heads.
Or if that, if you believe that that is
going to give you some sense of security.
Come on.
For so many years it did.
Like, when I was able to wear my
NBA, you know, uh, clothes and all
of that stuff, all the NBA gear I
had, it's like, man, I felt so good.
Like, you know?
And l- and the Lord really
had to strip me from all that.
Mm.
Because it is such a idol.
'Cause when you're s- when you're a
kid and that's what you look up to and
you wanna see, and then you realize
how people treat you because you're
at those levels- Bro, my goodness
oh, man, it just goes right to your head.
It goes- Yeah, absolutely
⦠right to your head.
Absolutely.
Hey, friends, before we continue,
I wanna take a break and
share something from my heart.
I'm not making any money off the podcast.
In fact, Redeeming the Game is a part
of my basketball missionary life.
My passion, as you know if you've been
following, is to help coaches and players
discover that their identity is Christ.
It's not in wins or losses
or how they perform.
This ministry is supported entirely
by people who believe in that
mission, who've come alongside me
and choose to partner financially.
So if you would like to continue to help
me create this content, mentor coaches,
and share the gospel of Jesus strife
through the g- Jesus Christ through the
game, you'll find a giving lim- link in
the description and in the show notes.
Thank you for your support
and your encouragement.
Hope this blesses you
Audio Only - All Participants: Well,
let's take a breath here and, and let's,
let's, let's attack a couple of things.
Uh, number one, I just wanna
say to everybody who listens
and watches and shares, thank
you from the bottom of my heart.
Uh, Joseph, as you know, it's super
important to have people come alongside
and, um, and, and, and really dive in.
And, and this thing, this podcast
was always designed for coaches.
We're gonna touch some
other people today for sure.
There's some, there's some families
and some kids gonna hear this that
their lives are gonna be changed.
But I just wanna say thank you, thank
you to all you guys who listen and,
and, uh, and like and subscribe.
Please do that.
But most importantly, I say this every
week, please, please, please share.
We want more people, more coaches to hear
this story about basketball as ministry.
Basketball was designed by Dr.
Naismith to be ministry.
It was to bring people to Jesus.
It was to be a character builder.
It was to reveal in us
exactly what we are, which is
transformational specialists, right?
That's what we are.
And so even now, Joseph,
you, you're doing that too.
So I just wanna say thank you to all of
those who are listening and will see this.
The, the second part of this is
Jesus gives us an incredible example
of what we're talking about, where,
like, His identity before He ever
baptized anybody in Luke, He talks
about it in Luke 3, where He doesn'tâ¦
He, He is told before He ever
dunks anybody y- that, "You are
my, you are my, you're my beloved
Son in whom I am well pleased."
The Father says over Him that.
And I, I think that's the message to
hear, that if you want to live outside
this performative-based lifestyle as
an athlete and as a coach, you must
hear that for yourself, that God
says over you, "You are my beloved
child in whom I am well pleased."
And I wanna say this, I said this
to, um, a young man two nights ago
That I, it absolutely was, was,
um, transformational in the moment.
That y- you, g- the way that God looks at
us isn't on the merit of our performance.
In fact, it is the polar opposite.
It, it's not the measurement of the
value in which you think you are.
He sees you just as you are.
Ready for this?
But not as you ought to be.
And if we can receive that as coaches
and em- God sees me just where I
am, where I am and He loves that
part of me, not as I ought to be.
Because we live in this
world of I ought to be.
I ought to be better at this,
I ought to be better at that.
I ought to be a better husband, I ought to
be a better dad, I ought to be, oughtâ¦
You live in that world,
it will never fill you.
That's how you end up in the holy, the
unholy trinity of proving everybody
wrong through guilt, shame, and fear.
That's what that whole
thing does to us, right?
And so m- as, as we, as we begin to
land the plane on, on this, on this
podcast, I wanted everybody to hear that
and you to hear that from the bottom
of my heart, what God is doing in your
life, and everybody getting to hear
that on full display, is that y- you're
exactly where you're supposed to be.
You are exactly who He
has created you to be.
You are enough, and you need to
leave this mindset of I ought to be.
And it's, it's super, super powerful
because the, the full definition of
the word righteousness is the state
of one who is as they ought to be.
Which means you are exactly where youâ¦
If you are righteous and
redeemed and beloved by God,
you are as you ought to be.
What a powerfulâ¦
Man, what a revelation.
My goodness.
You know- Life change ⦠the
revelation of righteousness
has been changing my life.
'Cause I always thought
righteousness was based on my works
and everything I can do for God.
Come on.
Right?
And that's, that created so
much performance, performance
anxiety because I'm, if, if
I'm doing well, then I am well.
But what about when you're not?
And that's so much of the time-
Come on ⦠even as believers.
Come on.
And I, and I understand now my
righteousness is based on the
finished work of the cross.
Come on.
My righteousness is based on
everything that God has done for
me and what He says about me.
And righteousness is, is simply
agreeing with what God says.
Come on.
It's simply, uh, receiving
the righteousness of God
through the blood of Jesus.
Like, that's what makes me righteous.
And now I under- like, understanding that,
it frees me up to actually be righteous.
Come on.
And that's the whole, like,
theme behind Peace to Perform.
It's like no, now because o- of who
I am, I can go out and freely do the
things that He's called me to do.
My goodness.
So man, it's, it's been,
it's been life changing.
And so, like, I find myself Even now,
like having to catch myself and, um,
'cause my mind will race, man, and I
will, I will wake up with these anxious
thoughts like, "I gotta do something.
I gotta, I gotta, you know-
Yeah ⦠keep up," right?
"I, oh, I'm behind."
I, I wake up and already feeling behind.
Yeah.
Or I haven't gone and worked out today.
Oh, man, I'm not going.
Yeah.
So all these thoughts will start racing.
Yeah.
And I've noticed that, wait, I have
to catch myself, and, um, I have what
I call a starting five now, right?
It's a play on basketball, but it's,
it's the first five minutes of my day.
How am I spending my first
five minutes of my day?
Come on.
And so I have these affirmations I speak
over myself, and one of them is I am a
son of God, and I have to remind myself
that, like, and because I'm his son,
that means he's gonna take care of me.
Um, and just like you said, uh, when Jes-
before Jesus did the miracles, before he
went out there and did anything- Come on
he was affirmed by the Father,
and the Father's like, "No, this
is my Son who I'm well pleased."
So I will speak that over myself.
Come on now.
God is well pleased with me.
Come on.
I belong to him.
He's gonna take care of me.
And now I'm starting my day with that
mindset, and now it, it, it frees
me to go out there and accomplish
everything that I have to do, but
not from a place of I'm behind.
Like what you said, I'm right
where I need to be, and it's just-
100% ⦠so much more freeing.
Man, it is.
And man, you said so much there.
We, we could have church
here for, like, two hours.
Uh, it's so powerful.
I, I, um, be- because, because you've
had a, you've had an awakeningâ¦
And I would say this to coaches.
What is it gonna take, and maybe this is
a question for coaches and, and people
who hear this, ask this question to Jesus:
Jesus, will you, will you show me what
it's gonna take for me to receive it?
Because there, there must be an encounter.
You have to have a full-blown encounter
to have that transformation and
that revelation of righteousness.
There has to be an encounter.
Otherwise, it's just mere words
on a page or, or words that
somebody coaches you to say, right?
The, the, the, that prayer of
salvation that we coach people
into saying, we coerce them into
saying instead of an encounter.
When you encounter the man Jesus,
then you, then you can receive his
righteousness that makes you in a
right relationship with the Lord,
not because of what you did, but
because of what Christ already did.
You said that, right?
Yeah.
All that to say, how has that
transformation now entered your world
as you went from, uh, overseas NBA,
and now you're playing one on one
in this scene that is like- Oh, man
it's like, itâ¦
For you people who don't know about the
one-on-one basketball scene that's out
there, it is, uh, it is, as you called
it the other day, the WWE of basketball.
Um- UFC.
U- no, my bad.
The U- well, we'll call
it- Listen, bro, it's both.
Okay?
Let's just- It's both
for sure ⦠it's both.
Yeah.
It's got elements of both.
Yeah.
So- And boxing ⦠and facts.
Okay.
So we, we just touched it all, but
like, how, how, how have youâ¦
You're in that scene now.
It's a completely different game.
You're, you're still doing, you're doing
the thing that you're gifted at, and
yet, like, it's different for you now.
What's that look like?
How much time we got, bro?
Working on about ten minutes, bro.
It's a loaded- Working
on about ten minutes.
It's a loaded, uh, answer because
number one, one-on-one is so much
different from five-on-five, um,
you know, traditionally what I'm
accustomed to, so it's a new world.
So I feel like a rookie in this
space, like I'm learning the
game in a new way all over again.
Um- I will say one-on-one basketball is
just like boxing or just like any other,
uh, sport where you're alone out there.
Like, you don't have anybody
else to really lean on.
Yeah.
You know?
I mean, obviously you got your-
Yeah ⦠you know, your trainers
and your, your corner, uh,
that's, you know, help you out.
But it is a, it's, it's a,
you know, y- by yourself.
It's, it's a self, you know, sport.
Yeah, yeah.
And, um- It's super
individual ⦠individual sport.
Yeah.
So, you know, growing up it was
all about, you know, being a team
player, and now this, i- the culture
is all about, you know, promoting
yourself and bigging yourself up.
And- Yeah, yeah ⦠um, so
now you're in an environment
where you don't even have toâ¦
You know, you can be as
selfish as you wanna be.
Yeah.
You know?
And, uh, uh, what I realize is, is y-
even though it's, it's one on one and you,
you're playing against an opponent, you're
really playing against yourself out there.
Um, and that's what I'm learning in
this space, like every- everything
about you, uh, is gonna come out.
The good, the bad, and the ugly.
And it's, it's challenging
yourself to, umâ¦
It, it's really exposed a lot
that's, that's in me and that's
still, that God is, like, working
out, uh- Come on ⦠you know.
And it's a lot of ugly things
that I'm seeing that, that's
still in there, you know.
A lot of pride.
Sure.
A lot of pride, you know?
Sure.
Um, 'cause the whole one-on-one
culture is, like I said, it's built
on, uh, you beating your opponent
and you continuing to rise up.
And like I said, just like, like,
like boxing, um, you demoralizing
your opponent and, and, and, you know,
try to keep climbing these charts.
So- Hmm ⦠I'm realizing that God
put me in this space for a different
reason, and it is to glorify him, right?
It is to bring light in a, in a place
that is, has been traditionally dark.
And, um, it's a beautiful opportunity
because so much, uh, attention and
so many eyes and so many people are
watching, but that also can go to your
head really quick, and you can lose sight.
100%.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can really lose sight of what
you're in it for, um, because you
start seeing how everybody is talking
and, and what they're talking about.
Um, and so even yesterday, like, you know,
I was tempted to, you know- post about me,
and then I was just thinking like, "Okay,
w- what is the reason I'm posting this?"
Come on.
And it was really just to big myself up.
And so I just, I just checked
my- I had the post ready, I wrote
everything out, I had it all set to
go, and then I just asked myself a
simple question, "What is this for?"
Mm-hmm.
And it was because, you know, an- another
event just happened that I wasn't a
part of, and it's like once youâ¦
'Cause I had a, a huge victory in one of
my last games and, you know, then the next
week go by, then they're talking about,
you know, other people and, and it's just,
you know, you, you're in that rat race.
And I'm, and I had to just catch myself
like, "No, you're, you're trying to,
you know, win people's approval or
not be-" Come on ⦠forgotten about.
And it was coming from a
place of like, "Look at me.
Hey, I'm still doing X, Y, and Z."
And so- Mm.
It's powerful.
My goodness, it's powerful.
Yeah.
And so that, like I still have these
moments, and I, and I just wanna share
that with the audience because, you
know, I'm still this work in progress.
Like, even though God has given us
revelations and things that, of that
nature, uh, I guess what I am, um-
Thankful to the Lord about is that he
allows me to catch these moments and
see these things Yeah, that's good.
That's good ⦠and, you know, uh-
Really good ⦠and there's just,
there's a lot of growth in that.
But I still struggle with it, man.
I, you know, I still
struggle with acceptance.
I still, you know, want people to approve
of me and, and things of that nature.
Yeah.
And so I'm asking the Lord to help me
with that because when you are called
and, uh, to be a, a change agent and,
uh, a transformational specialist,
right, uh, and transform people life,
you, you have to have thick skin.
You have to be bold and courageous.
You have to be willing to be rejected.
That's what Jesus says.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, "If you are my followers and
they rejected me, they will reject you.
The world isn't supposed to love you."
And we want the world to love us.
Literally was reading that this morning.
Come on, bro.
I'm like, "Man, I'm so
far from that," you know?
Yeah.
Um, and, uh- But you're
closer than you think you are.
Amen.
Amen.
And you're closer than you think you are.
And, and I am where I ought to be, right?
That's exactly right.
You are.
Yeah.
You are because you're havingâ¦
You made me think about the podcast.
Like, the podcast right now and all the
social media, again, shout out Coach Phil.
Like I, I'm not here
without his hand in my back.
Like, you've got to go do this.
People gotta hear these stories, right?
And I'm, Iâ¦
It took me, I mean, about three months in
I found myself right where you're talking
about, like posting, posting, posting.
Like, and I am, I'm, I'm gassing
myself up, and then all of a sudden
the Lord was like, "Hold on a minute.
Why are you so worried about it?
I, I spoke through Phil.
You do this and leave it alone.
Don't, don't go gas it up.
I will gas it up."
And I, man, you talking about steps
backwards, like, like, n- I mean, the
only reason I care anything about,
uh, viewership and that kind of stuff
is I want it to reach more people.
Yeah.
Not for my ownâ¦
It doesn't do me any good.
Yeah.
Like, I, you know what I mean?
And that's a whole, that's a, that's
a, that's a culture shift in your
heart and your mind away from the
pride and the, the glory that the,
the, the admonish- admonishment of the
people around you gassing you up so
you feel good about yourself, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that FOMO is real, bro.
Whoo.
It's so interesting, like when we
get to that place where we don't
need that, like God doesn't, he
doesn't mind giving it to you either.
No, he does not.
You know?
Come on, bro.
'Cause you know, that's
the most beautiful thing.
That's powerful.
Come on.
But when it does- My goodness, go to work
take up residence in your heart,
um, you know, he will, he will
allow that to be stripped from you.
And so, you know, I know we got a few
minutes here, but you know, my whole
journey was, uh, one of God stripping
me from the idol of basketball, the idol
of needing fame and people's acceptance.
Um, so he has stripped me from so much
of that, and it still tries to rise up.
Uh- Of course ⦠but when
it does, I can, I can see it.
I can acknowledge it.
Come on.
Uh, I can repent of it, uh, and give
it back to the Lord and, um, allow him
to take back that throne on my heart.
Come on.
Um, but you know, I just wanna share that
with people who- May feel like, man, I
need this to make me feel successful.
If this just happened in my life,
everything will work out and everything.
That, that if this thing- Come on ⦠and
that is not going to be the source of
your true fulfillment and happiness.
It is going to be when you fully
surrender and allow God to be the
author and finisher of your faith.
Come on.
Let him write your story and just be okay
with whatever he says is the outcome.
And, um, I was listening to, um Mark
Price speak one day Okay ⦠and
he was telling me of his journey.
He was, I, I was listening to him
speak, and he was, he was talking
about his journey, and he actually gave
his life to Christ before he became
a superstar, before he made it to the
NBA, before he was a four-time Olympian
and did all these amazing things.
Yeah.
And, uh, he asked the Lord, uh, you
know, "What do you want me to do?
Like, I'll go and be a missionary.
I'll goâ¦"
And he, and, and the Lord let him
know that, "No, my plan for you
is to go and, and be great in the
NBA, and do all these things."
Come on.
And when he said that, it freed
me, because my whole journey was
I, I gotta make it to the league.
Yeah.
I gotta do this.
I gotta do this.
Yeah.
And if that was the Lord's plan for my
life, best believe I would've done that.
Absolutely.
Come on.
That would've been the
plan that He had for me.
Come on.
But no, the plan He had for
me was for me to go overseas.
The plan for me was for hi- for me
to go play, you know, in the, in
the countries I played in and learn
what I've learned, and, and, and
it's been a beautiful experience.
But if I fight against the Lord's
will for my life because of what
I want, I'm going to actually miss
out on how beautiful the journey is.
And so- Woo.
⦠I just wanna encourage
anybody with that, man.
Man, come on.
What is the journey that He has for you?
Come on.
And embrace that journey,
enjoy that journey.
Because when you do, you can a, you
can be used more effectively in it.
Come on.
And I think that what a great way to end
this thing, because coaches, I want you
to hear, you got a guy who had incredible
talent, who doesn't think he's an
incredible athlete, but's got a 39-inch
vertical, so we're gonna throw that one
right out the window right now, and we're
gonna squash that mess of trash that just,
that hot garbage that came out your mouth.
I'm not letting you
get away with that one.
I hope Phil sees this.
And see, you gonna get
called out on that one.
And, um, I, I, I want coaches to
hear, like, when you have a player
that's got this or you, yeah, it
is okay to push them to excellence.
It's okay to push them
towards their dreams.
But it's not okay to do that at
the expense of their identity.
It is more important for them to
know why the game was created.
And I say this every week, Coach,
you must be a world-class storyteller
when it comes to the game.
Because it would've
changed both of our lives.
If I knew, if I knew then what I
know now, I would've been, I would've
played a completely different game.
I would've coached a
completely different game.
I wouldn't have lived my whole
career to prove everybody wrong.
I would have 100% went after it
with a different place in my heart.
And, and again, obviously God's plan
is at work, and He is working in us.
As my dad says, shout out Perry
Sanders- Both the willing and the doing
of his good pleasure in our lives.
He is working.
He is always working.
And so i- it's not our
righteousness, it's his.
It's not anything that we did.
But to know that story and to understand
it would be transformational for kids
to not feel like they've gotta go prove
their dreams to the world, but just live
'em out to the best of their ability.
Well, Coach Matt, we got, you know,
some new people who might tune in,
especially when I share this with,
you know, some of my followers.
They might not know the story that you're
talking about, the basketball story.
So can you let them know what-
Yes, I can ⦠you're referring to?
Yeah, so in, uh, 1891, Dr.
James Naismith was given the, uh, what I
call the dream of dreams for all of us.
Somebody in, uh, his, his support
staff asked him to create a game,
uh, because it's cold, uh, in, in
Sp- up in Springfield, Massachusetts.
And, um, uh, he created
a game indoors, and heâ¦
One of the things that in this creation
of the game is he originally put a
stick in it, and, uh, he thought better
of that because everything that had
a stick was for rich people, rich
kids, and he wanted more than anything
else for this, this game, we'llâ¦
I'll use a modern phrase, but this
game to be inclusive, to be able for
all walks of life, girls and guys
alike, to be able to play a game.
And he started with a soccer ball
and a peach basket, and there, that,
we could go down that whole road.
But Dr.
Naismith also was a, a Methodist minister,
and he saw an opportunity to create
something that would be used to, uh,
build character in young people, uh, to
bring out the best in them, to be enjoyed.
Holy smokes, where did that go?
Uh, 'cause no- don't nobody enjoy
it because we're always on a grind.
And, um, and then he,
he wanted it to, uhâ¦
The, the phrase that we have that's on the
back of this T-shirt is, you know, to win
men for the master Jesus through the gym.
And, uh, I like to say men and women.
I know he meant both when he said men, but
obviously it was a different time period.
And then the YMCA, Young Men's Christian
Associations, takes the game global.
Those missionaries take it
global, and it just, it exploded.
Basketball is, uh, outside of soccer,
they're probably 1A and 1B right
now of being the most important
influential games in the world, and
most of us and most people don't know
that it was created for ministry, to
bring people to Jesus, to be enjoyed,
and to grow character in all of us.
And, uh, yeah, that's that, that's
the, that is the, the three and a
half minute version of, of the, of
the, uh, origin story of basketball.
And like you said, if I knew that
earlier in my career, if I, uh, if
that was taught to me, you know.
But I'm so grateful 'cause when I
did hear it, it immediately just,
it made everything click for me.
Absolutely.
I understood immediately, oh, this is why
God gave me the desire, you know, to play
this game, to love the game the way I do.
Because it was always His game.
Come on.
It was always made- Ooh ⦠with
the intention to spread the gospel.
Mm.
And, uh, I just love- Good ⦠hearing
that story, bro, because it just, it just
frees me up to understand what this game
is all about, man, and it's to, you know,
to bring joy, to bring people together,
and to spread the love of Christ.
Uh, as our boy, shout out Coach Phil,
says the g- basketball was God's idea.
And, um, Iâ¦
That one, yeah, it, same for me.
It, it, it freed me.
It, it absolutely freed me.
And, and, uh, I've said this 100 times
on this podcast it n- I did a full
180 in coaching when it happened.
I mean, I c- I became a
completely different person.
It couldn't have showed up at a
better time, and also at a dark
time, but it, man, it, it shed light
on something that was in there.
Well, bro, I can't tell you how
much I love you and appreciate you.
Thank you so much for
being on the call today.
Absolutely, bro.
Thanks for having me.
This was great, and I know
we can talk for hours, bro.
So, uh- We can go.
Yeah Yeah, yeah.
Thank you.
Shout out to all the P2P
family who are gonna hear this.
Make sure that you, uh, you, you
guys stay locked with Joseph.
And all of you who are
listening to Redeeming the Game
podcast, same for you guys.
Make sure you lock in with P2P and, uh,
just follow him on all the socials, right?
That's where you're at.
You're just Joseph on
all the socials, right?
It's just Joseph is my personal
account on IG, but, uh, all the,
um, my ministry is Peace to Perform,
and that's on, uh, Instagram,
TikTok, and, uh, YouTube as well.
Okay.
Well, um, uh, coaches, if, if there's
any part of this that, you know,
really spoke to you and landed in
your heart, I want you to jump on the
show notes and download the 10 things
I wish I knew as a young head coach.
And then when, when you read those, if
something sticks out to your heart, uh,
something that really pricks you and you
really wanna know more, I want you to
email me at matt@redeemingthegame.com.
Uh, I'd love to connect with you.
Um, and as we say each and
every week, uh, we are out here
redeeming this game one family, one
coach, and one player at a time.
Hope this blesses you, and
we'll see you next week.