The why behind financial independence

The Fiscal Firehouse welcomes their first guest, Reed Norwood, L1309 Secretary Treasurer.  Reed will give a report on the 57th IAFF Convention along with explaining how your union dues are being allocated. The second half of the episode, Jon and Louie will discuss the three pillars of financial independence and why it is so critical to setting you up for future financial success.

What is Fiscal Firehouse?

Come join a groundbreaking new podcast that promises to change the way you think, the way you live, and the way you manage your future. Grab a cup of coffee, a 6mg Zyn, some noise-canceling headphones, and get lost in the world of the Fiscal Firehouse. With your co-host Jon Beattie and Louie Barela, the Fiscal Firehouse is your guide to financial freedom. Tailored to union firefighters, we will discuss problems, solutions, and benefits that are unique to our profession. Change your finances, change your life at the Fiscal Firehouse. Brought to you by Local 1309.

Jon: Welcome back to the Fiscal Firehouse.

In today's episode, John and Louie will
welcome the first guest of the podcast.

Reed Norwood, the Captain of Station
3 and the Secretary Treasurer of Local

1309, will discuss his pathway to
union leadership and give a rundown

at what transpired at the 57th IFF
Convention, which was held in Boston.

Reed will also discuss union dues,
how much our members pay, and where

that money is being allocated.

Lastly, Reed will discuss the framework
for the executive boards at the

local, state, and national level.

In part two of this episode, John and
Louie will discuss the three pillars

of financial independence and why
it is important to try to achieve

financial independence before retiring.

This episode will set the foundation
for all future financial topics

and discussions moving forward.

Without further interruption, everyone,
welcome to the Fiscal Firehouse.

This is another episode
of the fiscal firehouse.

I'm one of your co hosts, John
Beatty, super excited to be

here with me in the 1309 studio.

I have my partner in crime, Louie.

I've never bought a share of GameStop.

I like that I get a new
nickname every episode.

I was the index fund
guy, the zero episode.

And now first episode, I'm never
bought an individual share of stock

guy, which is not true, but game stop.

Oh, game stop.

Game stop.

So I'm going to, every time I
introduce you, it's going to be

another little caveat, part of this
goal is just to understand Louie.

I mean, he's an onion.

Keep peeling back those onions.

Keep peeling back them onions.

Don't smell that good
and can make you cry.

I guess that's good.

That is definitely good.

So in studio, we also have
a special guest speaker.

This is one of those things when we
started talking about what we wanted to

do with this podcast and where we saw it
heading is we have a lot of talent here.

At West Metro and the membership,
and we want to demonstrate and

display some of that talent.

And these are some of the things that
we thought it was important, not only

to Louie and I, but the rest of the
membership and the executive board

is to highlight and demonstrate that.

So in the studio, we also
have a guest speaker.

Yep.

And so we actually decided to use
our very first special guest to have

someone speak to you about fiscal
responsibility as it relates to the union.

We are having the secretary treasurer of
our local 1309 present today in the union.

I am honored to welcome the captain of.

Station three, as well as your secretary
treasurer, please welcome Reed Norwood.

Welcome to the show.

Wow.

Thanks.

Thanks fellas.

I first want to apologize to everybody
who was all built up with that intro

expecting a truly special guest and.

We'll cut that out and just say guest.

It doesn't have to be a special guest.

We'll just say guest, the first guest.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

But no, part of this, one of the
reasons Reed, we wanted to have

you on this was that Louie and
I, and a lot of other people felt

that this podcast was necessary.

Not only talk about the financial and
fiscal responsibility of not only the

union, but our members, but also just
get a little bit more understanding of.

What the union does on a day to day basis.

Um, we know a lot of our members
don't come to the union meetings

and what they hear is either what
happens at the kitchen table, or if

they come upon one of us, they'll
ask us what's going on in the union.

We just thought this would be a better
format and a way to not only demystify

personal finance, but also demystify
what the union's all about and what we're

trying to do on our members on behalf.

So we just wanted to talk a little bit
more about you and your role in the

union and how you even got involved.

With the union to begin with.

So if you can elaborate a little bit
on what got you interested or hooked as

some of those other people's, I'm way
deeper than I ever thought I'd be, buddy.

We all, yeah, we all are.

Right.

I had never worked a union job prior
to come to the fire department.

Like a lot of us, when I came
to my first union meeting to

be sworn in, I was intimidated.

I was like, didn't know how to, what I
should say, if I could even participate.

And then as the time went
on, I got more comfortable.

I realized I really.

enjoy what unionism is and I
wanted to get more involved.

I didn't even know what that really
meant, what unionism was, but I knew

that I could be a contributor to
the department in a way that, you

know, was, I guess, more than myself.

I could do a little more
for the, for the department.

So my first kind of foray into other
than just regular union attendance, cause

that's how I really started was just
showing up to the monthly meetings when I

could, when it was over at Cafe Del Sol.

We'd sit there and get a smothered
burrito and listen to Frenier

and Rogers yelled each other.

And it was a, it was a good
intro to what was important.

And then I found out there was,
we used to do what was called

the joint apprenticeship council.

We used to have an apprentice
firefighter program.

So your first three years as a
firefighter, you were an apprentice

and that had some oversight in it.

Which is now the RCS committee.

But back then it was a appointed
position or an elected position.

I got elected into being a
joint apprenticeship council

member, the union rep for that.

So that was super cool.

And I, and I did that
early on in my career.

So that was in 2006.

So I'd only been on a couple of years
and got in as a JTC guy and then went

right from there into becoming a trustee,
which was that next step for me where

I wanted to be More involved in the
union and then went on to become a vice

president and now one of the principal
officers as a secretary treasurer.

I'm in my 21st year here at West Metro
and I've been involved in the union.

Pretty much since the start beautiful.

I love that.

And I love that this union
specifically, we've got all

different walks of life, right?

You and Mulcahy were, and honestly,
Louie worked some of those people

that got hooked right away and
got active involved right away.

And I'm an outlier or one of those people
that kind of found a little bit later.

In my career and I love that
we have that diversity amongst

our executive board as well.

I want this to be encouraging for
those folks that maybe have been

here for a little bit and it's
never too late to get involved.

That's the other part.

I know we've focused so much on
our new folks and how important

we want to hear from them.

But also if you're that person that's
been here for 15, 20, 25 years, but

now all of a sudden you're like,
man, I want to be more involved.

It's never too late to be involved.

So I wanted to just pitch that out there
for those folks that are maybe mid career

or towards the later part of their career.

It's like, we are open for all thoughts
and ideas and diversity and just wanting

to get all sorts of different experiences
and not just from our newest folks.

So one of the things we recently
did is go to Boston for the

international convention.

And so we were hoping you can talk to
us a little bit about that, what was

accomplished at the convention as well as.

What what per capita means because
that always comes up when we talk

about the convention So we can
speak to some of those things.

Yeah, and like what is
convention exactly, right?

Um, yeah every two years we hold
Uh convention, uh changes cities

It's you know, either in the u.

s or canada Um, the iff convention is
essentially a huge union meeting, uh that

lasts Three four or five days sometimes
depending on the resolutions So as you

mentioned, the entire e board went out
there to Boston for the 57th convention.

It was awesome being in Boston, being
that that's where it's the home local

of our general president at Kelly.

So that was super cool.

We got a lot of perks out of that.

Just having that kind of presence
in Boston, the fire department in

Boston is hugely respected, man.

I think you guys saw it like the fire
department runs things out there.

That was super cool to see.

And then we got some awesome guest
speakers that came in too, right?

So.

Both vice presidential candidates came
and spoke to the delegation, which

I thought was, was pretty awesome.

We've had vice presidents, we've had
sitting presidents, past presidents.

I'll come in to talk to conventions.

That's pretty cool.

The main thing about convention is
we sit out there on the floor and

we talk about resolutions, which
are essentially the equivalent of

a motion being made in the hall.

But these come with a lot of work
being done in the past, as far as

like crafting the right verbiage.

There's a lot of whereas statements
resolve statements and some key ones.

The key ones that are most
important to our membership are

those that affect per capita.

Per capita is essentially
easily defined as per person.

So it's, it's our union dues.

The IFF per capita is what we pay,
uh, every month for each individual.

Currently, that number is 17.

52 per month, 2024 per capita.

With resolutions that get passed
during convention, we approve

additional funding that will then
increase that per capita amount.

So based on this convention
in Boston, we approved 0.

95.

Of resolutions that will be added
to our new per capita on top of a

consumer price index adjusted amount
for inflation So that was 58 cents.

So now our new per capita is
going to be 19 And five cents.

Yep before we get into The
details of some of that 95 cents.

I just want to talk about per
capita and and what that is, right?

Demystify that because I think
a lot of people don't understand

what that means Does that mean?

Yeah, we're getting an increase
in our union dues or how does

that how does that relate?

So we as a local we fund our union dues
as a percentage of firefighter first

grade salary So it's one and a quarter
percent currently the union dues per month

per member is 107 and 40 cents, uh, so
within that 107 dollars and 40 cents You

I then pay out per capita to the IFF.

I also pay out per capita to the
CPFF, and then we use the remainder

to fund the general operations of our.

Local, right?

So it's to cover our salaries.

It's to cover our program costs.

It's to cover our antiques and
maintaining those It's to cover our

travel expenses and registration
fees for going to conventions and

meetings around the country It covers
our office space motions in the hall

Motions in the hall all that stuff.

Yeah, generally about 75 percent of
what we spend a month After per capita

goes towards those operational costs and
then I like to hold at least hopefully

13 to 15 percent Towards adding to our
investments to our Schwab account, which

so you're that means you're you're saving
15 percent of our income for the future.

That's right.

It's a pretty good financial principle
that applies to personal finance as

well Right new fiscal firehouse guys.

I'd like that There's a reason
we had Reid on here more than

just his ginger good luck.

Yeah Smooth buttery tone.

Oh, yeah, this directly ties into what
Louie and I will talk about in the

second part of the podcast and that's
financial independence, but we do love

and I love that my philosophy around
finance and financial responsibility and

accountability directly reflects that of
the union and its serendipitous power.

Personally for me to share those
same values and it makes, it makes

life way easier, honestly, to be
so aligned financially with the

union and my own personal beliefs.

Yeah.

And it's, it's not only important to
save, but it's really important to have

that war chest is what we consider it.

That Schwab account.

If we didn't have that, we
couldn't put up a fight, right?

If something came along that this
local had to fend off, whether it's

political or even inside, whether it's
a bad fire chief or a bad board, we

wouldn't have any way to fund that.

So having that, and we're
currently sitting at about 1.

5 million in our kitty.

That's a, it's a big chunk of money
that the district knows we have, right?

Our politicians know we have
like, we carry some weight

and so we can use that money.

It's not just an investment for our
future, but it's also an investment

that we can utilize as a tool.

As a tool to fend off any,
anything that comes our way.

I got a question for you, Reed.

And obviously you allow the
folks just regionally here.

And then also on the national level,
how unique is it in our kind of position

where we have that war chest and just
comparing ourselves to other locals

and the way that they do budgeting,
maybe like a, for the captains out

there, like a zero based budgeting.

And they basically spend everything
that they have every year.

And they don't have anything in reserves.

Is it, are we in a unique
situation like that?

We are in a unique situation,
especially for a local of our size,

a 400 person local to have a 1.

5 million.

Investment account is unique.

We're in a really, really good position.

There's a lot of locals
that don't do that.

They spend, they have a zero based budget.

They spend it all in the union
dues that are coming in or spent.

Um, and I think, you know, luckily based
on the leadership we've had over the

past 30 plus years of this local, we've
been really good at setting aside money

and growing our funds instead of just.

Either maintaining or spending them down.

Yeah.

So it's been huge and huge
credit to our past secretary

treasurers and principal officers.

Kevin Reichenbach was a prior
secretary treasurer to me.

Mike Vernier was before him, before he
stepped over into the president's seat.

Yeah.

Just a ton of people who are, are really
invested in the health of this local

and want to do right by this local.

And I think we're, we pride
ourselves on transparency.

Uh, we pride ourselves
on doing the right thing.

And spending money where it needs to be
spent and not spending it where it doesn't

need to be And just being really open
with our financials, you know with the

membership and with the internationals
Yeah, and we'll say that we've said it

before and we'll say it again You are not
doing this alone with your the roles of

the secretary treasurer in our finances.

You have basically a Oversight
over you in the sense that we use

trustees to audit the books and
make sure everything is above board.

And we also have an investment
advisor that we use, the third party

who helps direct our investments.

So there's just a lot of
openness into the books.

Any member can always ask about that.

You can always talk to one of
the vice presidents as well,

and we'll explain it to you.

But I think we do a really good job.

I think I would, I'd put our books
and our reports up against anyone out

there just because I think they're
that transparent, easy to understand.

And, and.

Honest in how we deal with it.

Yeah.

Thanks.

And then we use an outside
accountant as well.

Yeah, that's right.

It is even a triple check.

She files our nine 90 every year
and she's, I'm on the phone with

her throughout the year, just, Hey,
I screwed up this journal entry.

Can you fix it?

And she's great at that.

So, yeah, I have a tremendous amount
of gratitude for all, not only what

Reed's doing, but Kevin and everyone
before them just setting us up for

success and it makes our job so much
easier to not have to worry about that.

So one of those things
that we did recently as an

executive board is we created.

What's called an investment policy
statement, basically tells our financial

advisor how we want the money managed, so
to speak, like how much risk do we want

to take and everything else like that.

And we met as an executive
board and discuss that.

And quite frankly, some
of it was good timing.

Some of it was a little bit luck, but
we've had an extended bull market.

In stocks for the better
part of a decade here.

And we've had that opportunity for that
war chest to grow and grow and grow.

And we met as an executive board
and thought, maybe it's time to

become a little less risky, a
little bit more, let's protect the

assets that we have this money.

And we just need to make
a little bit off of that.

We don't want to try to hit another
home run when we're sitting on third.

We just want to keep hitting
singles from here on out.

So just so you guys know out there, if
you want to know how, We're allocated or

how our investments are being invested.

It's pretty conservative right now.

We really are in kind of that
retirement aspect where we're trying

to preserve a lot of that principle
and not grow it so much anymore.

So just if anyone ever has questions
about that is we have that investor

policy statement available.

If anyone ever wants to see it or
what we know, what we're invested in,

but I'm, I'm really grateful that we
made that pivot, especially based on

what could be happening in the future.

Yeah, me too.

And both of your input was extremely.

Helpful when we all met with with
Clinton and our new advisor to suss

out questions that you guys had and
make sure we were On the right path

now, so I feel really good about it.

Cool.

Yeah Thanks for explaining
that the financial aspect of

it with per capita union dues.

I want to circle it back though to
the convention Yeah, so international

convention Multi day union meeting.

Can you talk a little bit about
some of the important things

that were done at that meeting?

Just so our members have an idea
of what we accomplished out there.

Yeah.

That per capita, that 95 cents
that was approved in those

resolutions, that's a pretty big
spend relative to other conventions.

We've had other conventions where 22
cents maybe gets added to per cap.

It's, it's incredible.

So we've got, you know, that room has.

3, 000 people in it, right?

I mean, it's a, it's a giant machine.

And when somebody stands up and talks
about a resolution and they want to

add a penny to per cap, it's to us,
that sounds like nothing, right?

Let's say 35, 000.

It is unbelievably debated.

And a lot of times these motions
fail, these resolutions fail.

And there's a lot of locals who.

Are struggling and maybe don't have the
funds to be able to support an increase

in their per cap Or they have what we
call pass through dues So any amount

that the iff raises their per cap they
in turn are going to raise that Due

structure for their members right and
their members are now going to have to

pay that increase We don't do that at
west metro, but that's you know goes back

to that one and a quarter percent that
we do for our Union dues that helps us.

It insulates us to those kinds
of fluctuations in per cap.

And as long as we can still
support our operations here and

still invest enough, then we won't
have to raise our members dues.

And we haven't in a long time.

Nice.

So of that 95 cents, just two
resolutions made up almost more than

half or just about half of that.

The first one I want to talk about
is resolution seven, and that's

the emergency disputes fund.

What that is set up for.

is it helps union leaders, vice presidents
and principal officers of a local.

It helps them when they are either
terminated, suspended, disciplined,

anything by a fire chief, by
a board, by a city for union

activities, union related activities.

Unfortunately we see this
all over the country.

We've been very lucky to
be insulated from that.

Westminster's dealt with it.

View Mountain view is
currently dealing with it.

Their union president's
been off the job for.

Two, two years, I want to say.

Now.

So he is currently involved in
a guardian case through the EDF.

So that fund is set up purely for that.

It helps, it's a legal fund.

The IFF comes out in force.

It gets these guys their jobs back.

It pays back pay.

And it lets cities and chiefs know
that they just can't, can't do that.

Legally can't do that.

Um, In that same vein.

So what that is, that fund only,
like I said, it only supports

union related cases, right?

What we saw happen in Aurora with Pete
and Jeremy, that's a criminal case.

And we, as an IFF have
nothing to do with that.

There's no, there's no nothing in the
bylaws that directs the IFF to step

in and help out on these cases, right?

Yeah.

There's no safety net or anything.

There's no safety net.

So Aurora, with the help of the 9th
District Frenier, our DVP, crafted

a resolution, Resolution 37, which
creates the Firefighter Fidelity Fund.

That was a 20 cent spend.

20 cents.

So that raises 750, 000 a year for
that 20 cents, for the international.

What that does is set up a fund,
similar to the EDF, but it's purely,

there's a legal defense fund, as
a out front PR fund, you know.

It's a fund to help out any IAFF member
who is criminally sued or charged

and is now finding themselves in a
situation similar to Pete and Jeremy.

We've never had that before.

That is a massive benefit.

To answer the age old question of
like, why should I join the union?

There's a lot of reasons and I can sit
here and we can talk about it all day.

That reason alone should be enough
to be like, where do I sign?

We've got our members out there on
our medic units that are doing that.

Really stressed out about their job
and they should be it's there's a lot

of liability and what we do But then
to think that you could be criminally

charged with doing your job and doing
absolutely everything by the book to

the t Medical director stepping in
saying everything was done correctly

and these guys are ending up in prison.

Are you fucking kidding me?

That's ridiculous.

Yeah, so Luckily this fund is now going to
be there for us and it's going to be there

to step in and the IFF will be in front.

They'll be jumping in.

We'll have the right lawyers.

We'll get the right messaging.

I mean, it's just, it's
a, it's a huge benefit.

Yeah.

This resolution, it was interesting
how it hit the floor, just talking

about like convention and how that all.

went down, there was a lot of
people that were going to be

hard nose on the resolution just
based on the per capita cost.

And I don't really think we need that.

Hey, we don't need to support guys that
are getting DUIs and stuff like that.

And then once they actually learned
the reality of the language and what

it was actually there to protect that
entire floor stood up in support of it.

Yeah.

A hundred percent.

There was even, there was even discussion
early on, if we're not EMS based,

we're not an EMS based fire department.

So this is not going to impact us.

And we set the record straight with,
Hey, one of the guys that was tried and

convicted was an officer like there,
this is not just something that's going

to impact paramedics on, on ambulances.

This is going to impact officers,
engineers who are driving these big

trucks, going to cause emergent like
this, this could impact any one of us in

any fire department, like the political.

Environment has changed.

The public opinion
environment has changed.

And so we need, we need to give
our members some protection,

some help in those situations.

Yeah.

There were a lot of departments that
were like, Hey, this, this is an outlier.

This won't happen to us.

This isn't happening.

And then a lot of other departments got up
and said, Oh, it absolutely is happening.

It's happening to us.

It's happened before and
it will happen again.

Yeah.

You had people, I think it was a
brother from Houston got up there

and be like, yeah, this is not just
a democratic state issue either.

Like Houston still.

And texas is still pretty republican.

So this is a bipartisan problem, right?

And the way that we're Being uh evaluated
not only by prosecutors and politicians,

but just the court of public opinion So I
thought it was a huge win I am interested

to see how fast this money goes and
and talking to the folks that Have been

doing this a way a lot longer than I have
they're like, you know Sometimes you just

got to get the money You got to plant the
seed and just get it in front of people.

And then when we come back in 26, when
we come back to another convention, they

might have to like with the EDF fund,
they might just have to say that we've

actually burned through all that money.

And we're actually looking for more money,
but at least you've got that in place.

You've got people used to it.

And I think that's only going
to demonstrate, unfortunately,

more of a need to do that.

And the other part is we're
talking 20 cents for our members.

If we were to do this on our
own, like the folks in Aurora

have their own legal protection.

I thought it was very poignant in that.

I mean, this truly shows
what unionship is about.

This is not going to
benefit those guys at all.

When they talked about bringing
this to the floor, they're like,

Hey, we're already locked in.

Our members pay a significant amount
of money for legal protection, the

same legal protection that most law
enforcement agencies have because

they're always under scrutiny, both
civilly, criminally, all sorts of things.

They brought this to the floor, basically
knowing that they're already covered, but

they want all other members to be covered.

Just knowing that this is
coming down the pipeline.

I thought, man, that really touched
on my heartstrings recognizing once

I learned that I'm like, People that
are doing this work for the most part,

they're in it for the right reasons.

It's not any kind of own personal
gratification or anything else.

Like they're really looking
out for the greater good.

So when you got that stick around
there that says IFF, it means

something more beyond just your own
local and what's benefiting you.

And I thought that was pretty cool.

So shout out to the guys from Aurora for
bringing that forward and, and Big Mike

for bringing that even further down the
food chain and getting it up to the floor.

I thought that was pretty cool.

I thought that was pretty special.

So, yeah, yeah.

The, uh, the policy that they have,
they looked at getting a similar policy.

Yeah.

Let's get going through PORAC for, Hey,
what would it take for 350, 000 of us?

And the cost was just unbelievable, right?

Setting it up this way and running
it through the IFF is going to be.

Really good.

Yeah.

Membership.

And so I know we're in
the weeds here with it.

We just think it was very
important for our members.

So I just want to clarify for all of
my B shifters out there who might be

having a struggle understanding this.

Hey, Hey, Hey, you got your
B shift rep right here.

Leave the old B shift.

Love you guys.

I just want to clarify and make this
very clear for all of our members.

If you are following your protocols and
you are performing your duties and Some

litigation comes out as a result of that.

This measure that was passed will ensure
that the international association of

firefighters comes to your defense, both
financially and politically and legally.

That is massive.

I mean that it cannot be understated.

So I just wanted to say
that very crystal clear.

If you are following your protocols
and performing in the line of

duty and something comes of that
litigation wise, we got your back.

That is what your union does for you.

That is a huge benefit.

And it's something that I'm very
proud that we were a part of being

at that convention in Boston.

I mean, I think that is just massive.

So thanks Reed for explaining that.

I think that is very, very important.

Yeah.

Anything else that you want to
talk about as it relates to the.

Convention in Boston
any other major thing?

What was your favorite thing?

We did Boston outside of the union work
So I want to disclose a big myth that

everyone thinks the Union Service is all
about playing in golf tournaments And

that couldn't be further for the truth.

Although we do participate occasionally
But honestly, like it's, it's, we're,

we're, we're there for four or five days.

And typically the union business runs from
eight 30 to four 30 or five, depending

on what's being discussed during the day.

But then at night you obviously
have some free time and they

typically have some other venues
that we get to participate in.

You get to go out to eat
and do some of that stuff.

Like what was, I'm going to ask both of
you, what was your takeaways from Boston?

We'll start with you, Reed.

What did you, what, what
resonated the most with you?

Boston is, is a great town.

It's probably been 20 years
since I've been there.

I love that city.

I love just walking
around it with you guys.

I think it was great.

We did not play a single
round of golf in Boston.

They were long work days for me.

The time after the meeting is.

Like just spending time with other locals.

We, we do hang out with a lot
of the Colorado guys, right?

Like we hang out with the Springs
guys, South Metro, Denver,

some, it was just great time.

I love just hanging out and having those
conversations even though they end up

in bars, like whatever I don't drink.

So I drink way too much bubbly water
and feel disgusting at the night.

But honestly, my favorite part was
the freaking lobster roll on the last

day, right before we got on the plane,
we went on Novello's recommendation

cause he's a Gloucester guy.

And we went out there and
had the best lobster roll.

Some of them, some of
us had lobster rolls.

I will admit, yeah, Louie's allergic.

I will admit I took a bite of my lobster
roll and like a sandwich and I lost

like a 5 cloths worth of meat on the
floor and I freaking ate that meat.

Zero hesitation.

Zero hesitation.

No, it just picked it up and was
like, let's actually, you did it

a little bit more eloquently where
he recognized it fell on the floor.

He even acknowledged everyone like,
Hey guys, this fell on the floor.

He put it back on his plate.

And then about 45 seconds
later, he hits me.

He goes, hey dude, I ate
the meat off the floor.

But he wasn't that good.

He wasn't thinking like
should I eat it or not?

He knew he was going to.

He put it, he just recycled it.

He just had to get through the piece
he was currently eating before.

And it was worth it.

Zero regrets.

Zero, zero regrets.

A keynote though.

If you go to Boston for anyone that's
traveling out there, bring cash.

Cash is king.

Those guys do not like the credit cards.

They don't like the transaction fees.

They probably don't like to report some
of their income, but I freaking loved it.

Louie, what was, what
was your favorite part?

So.

I kind of agree with Reed, like just
going out and, you know, getting dinner

after and getting to kind of talk about
the day's events and what happened

and then doing our long walks back.

Sometimes we'd go to the north end and
we'd walk all the way back just to kind

of like help our food digest and walk
off some of these calories because we're

sitting all day in these conventions.

In these meeting rooms and stuff,
but I I'll say that I think the

coolest thing was after about day.

I mean, let's be real It
was day one after day one.

We were all talking in boston accents
there I mean, we were just going around

and I can't even do it here because I
don't even know now but we were like,

hey What are you host tuggers doing?

What what's going on over here?

We all have these probably terrible fake
boston accents I have zero doubt that

if I lived in boston It would take me
about one or two months before I was

completely speaking in a boston accent.

It's a great thing Badass accent.

Oh, yeah gives you a
little bit of edge to it.

I wish I had a boston accent I wish I
was from boston because I think that'd

be cool But that's my favorite part
is we would just be doing these walks

and we were all talking in boston
accents to each other So just saying

haba haba going down to the haba.

Yeah, it was awesome It was
interacting with the cops right

after the red sox game was hilarious.

We're like Hey guys, can you point us
to a good bar or whatever and like,

oh yeah, yeah, you need to go there.

Oh wait, are you guys, you,
you bunch of host tuggers?

Oh yeah.

No, no.

Don't go that way.

No, we're changing our recommendation.

You got to go this way.

Yeah.

He was trying to get us.

Yeah.

They were awesome.

They call them host tuggers.

The cops were calling us host
tuggers, which I like that term.

I think we're going to, we're going to,
we're going to definitely incorporate

that into many different facets throughout
this, but it was, it was spectacular.

And I think next set, we're
going to make our FI candidates.

patients only in Boston accents.

Like we're going to make them
do that for the whole call.

The whole shift may be just, Hey,
sweetheart, what's your problem here?

What's going on?

What, what do you need help with?

What are we here for?

Yeah.

Novello might come out and
ride on the medic with you.

Just so you can correct
my terrible Boston accent.

John, what was your favorite part of this?

Man, I've ridden on your
guys coattails as always.

I think it was a
culmination of everything.

I thought the night that we went to
a Red Sox game at Fenway Park was

super special just for the history.

Man, like the history, if you're a
history aficionado, you just respect

history, love to learn from history.

Man, like Boston.

Is it the home of our independence?

And I don't know, maybe it's just where
those people grew up, but there's a

level of patriotism in that city that
you don't see a lot of other places.

Whether you work for the fire
department or the police department

or any other kind of public servant.

I think they just have a little
bit more respect for that position.

And man, that was just really cool,
especially in some of our environments

now, where some people feel less
enthralled about the job and how we're

being received and everything else,
man, it was really welcomed to get

that kind of level of reception, but.

Man, it's just a fantastic city.

A walkable city, felt safe the whole time.

I mean, just the level of
history, the food was fantastic.

The, the company was even better than the
food, but it was, for me, it was all that

stuff that I, I would definitely go back.

It's become my new favorite.

Big city, so big shout out to Boston
local 718 that, that hosted us.

They did a great job.

It was just a fantastic venue.

Yeah.

Loved it all.

Reid, thank you for being on the podcast.

We thought it was important to have you.

Like we said, it's, this has a
fiscal bend to the podcast, but we

want to talk about union things.

And this is, this is,
you're both of those.

You are the guy who's fiscally responsible
for the union, for all of our member dues.

You do a great job at it.

And similar to the concepts that we're
going to talk about in coming Weeks and

months regarding fiscal responsibility.

You do that for us.

You do that for the union.

So we thought you were the
perfect first guest for it.

Since that is the blending of the two
things that this podcast is about.

I have a final question for you.

And that is because you're
bankrolling this podcast.

What, what do you want
to see as accomplished?

What do you hope?

Our members get out of this podcast.

Let me be clear.

I am not the man behind the curtain here.

I am not telling these
guys what to do or say.

When you guys came to me with
this idea and said, Hey, Mike,

we want to do this podcast.

What do you think?

I was like instantly excited about it.

I think both of your, the knowledge
you guys have in the personal

finance realm, And just finances
in general is, is awesome.

It's, it's way more than
I have to be honest.

I mean, you guys could do my job
probably with both eyes closed.

No way.

No way.

But yeah.

So what you guys bring to this
podcast and where you're going to

take it, I'm just super excited about.

I think the, The questions we get
daily in the union hall and we can

help answer about members, personal
financial questions, whether it's

pension or RHS or whatever we answer
in the union hall, but it doesn't

get out to the whole membership.

And that's always been
a sticky point for me.

It's like, how do we communicate
better with our membership?

And we try to do it like we,
We publish our union meeting

minutes online now on our website.

That's good, but you can't gleam a
lot of that information through what I

jot down on the union meeting minutes.

We send out texts and emails, but still
none of that can really come through.

Like we can't really get into the
meat, that firehouse table discussion

like you could on a podcast.

So this is a phenomenal way to reach our
membership and answer all those questions,

to have feedback, to, to be able to.

To open up that gmail inbox and answer the
questions that our members have specific

to their finances It's just awesome.

We I think we do a really good
job as a local on forcing people

to save Forcing people to plan
for their retirements, right?

Because if you were in any other
sector any other job, they don't

give a shit About your retirement.

I mean, yes, they're gonna pay into
your 401k because they have match

or whatever you have to But there
is no They're, they're not fighting

for increases in benefits, right?

They're not looking at,
Hey, what about healthcare?

What about when you retire
before Medicare age?

How do we support that?

Your union cares about that, right?

And we're at the forefront of
trying to set all that up for you.

So if you're not a money guy, and I
don't consider myself a money guy, even

though I'm secretary treasurer, that
is done for you, this local will always

be fighting for you along with our
administration to set up the right stuff.

For you.

And so.

Now you just got to understand
it, understand what it all

means and how you can maximize.

Your, your effort in that realm.

So you can get to the
finish line, so to speak.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So this podcast is going
to be huge for that.

I'm just excited wherever
you guys take it.

I know it's going to be a lot of fun.

I know your special guests will
all be way more special than me.

Couldn't be further from the truth.

I'm looking forward to whoever you
got on here next, but yeah, I'm, I'm

super excited for what you guys are
doing and I can't thank you enough.

No, we, we love having you read.

We love working with you.

Um, and all the things that you've done
on all our members behalf for, for us.

We're grateful for that, but I would
be remissed if we didn't talk about

the convention And the setup you set
it up really good But just so everyone

understands and once again, we're trying
to make this as base level as possible

Just like the structure of what the
international looks like I know we talk

about like districts and vice presidents
and all sorts of stuff but maybe we'll

just take a minute to just demystify
what that is too and Part of it is a

plug for how respected our own local
is represented on a national level.

And I think a lot of our members
have zero idea about what that is.

Can you talk about just what the framework
of the national level looks like?

And it looks very similar to our own
local here, but it's a little bit

bigger scale and maybe just some of
the people that serve in that capacity.

Sure.

Yeah.

So at the lowest level,
Is our local local 1309.

And even though we're at the lowest level,
we're at the forefront of what the IFF

or international really wants to support.

Right?

So all of our union dues, all of
our per cap goes up the chain and

it funds all the programs that
we can reach out to as a local.

So you go local and then we
have our state association.

So that's our CPFF, which our
very own Kevin Reichenbach is

the secretary treasurer of.

Our very own Mike Furnier
was the president of before

he stepped into a DVP role.

So we have a lot of presence at the
state association level, which is great.

It gives us, we share offices
out at the CPFF event center

with the CPFF, Denver and Aurora.

So Mike and I are always in touch
with our bigger, bigger locals, and

we're always going to know and up,
up in front of those discussions.

Moving past the state associations,
you then move into kind of

a regional, uh, districts.

So we have 16 districts across the IFF.

Um, Colorado is part of
District 9 and our very own Mike

Furnier is our District 9 DVP.

He was just reelected for
another term at convention.

So huge shout out to him.

He has just, just to say DVP is
district vice president, district

vice president, and that is only
one of a handful of people that

report to the general president and
the general secretary treasurer.

So that's a, it's a big deal
that he comes from our local and

he represents numerous states.

That's huge.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah, he is one of 16 that
sits at a table and they, they

make up the executive board.

So just like you all.

Are on our executive board.

Those DVPs make up the executive
board for the international.

So to have Mike in that
position is, is huge.

Like you said, our local is
known throughout the country and

I don't want to toot our horn
too much, but it's, it's true.

We're, we're really active and we're
doing the right things and we're getting

the right people in those positions.

And so just a huge shout out
to Mike for what he's done for

this local, his entire career.

And okay.

He said it best.

He's done more.

For this union and this department in a
suit this year than he has in his uniform.

It's true I mean, he is a labor
guy through and through and he

just I mean he is impassioned So I
just can't can't thank him enough.

Yeah, and then we move on up to our uh,
principal officers who Are ed kelly.

He's our our general president and frank.

Lima is our general secretary treasurer
for the iff Those two guys lima is

still on the job out in la and And
Ed is still technically on the job.

Ed's always working in
Alata 17 on the South side.

Yeah, that's right.

He'll go ride the real
step on the, on the Alata.

He's a firefighter,
unpromoted firefighter.

Unpromoted firefighter.

So it's great.

We got East coast, West
coast representation.

They ran again on a, on a ticket.

They were both elected.

Lima ran unopposed and was
elected and Ed had minimal.

A minimal competition and was
elected with 98 percent of the vote.

So we've got fantastic principal
officers that are dead set on doing

right by you, by the IFF member,
making sure our finances are right and

clean all the way up at the top and as
that funnels all the way down to us.

So beautiful said, I just thought I was
important because I think, you know,

once you kind of get involved in this, it
kind of just goes, it just becomes like

regular terminology and jargon that we
all speak, but I know there's a lot of

our folks being like, I have no idea what
the ninth district is or what that is.

And part of me, though, just wanted to
highlight like, I mean, how, how impactful

this local has been, not just here at
West Metro, but at the state level.

And then even furthermore at the
national level, and I thought that

was super, super cool to point out.

So thanks for a little history lesson
there, Reed, and hopefully people just

have a better understanding of kind of
how the union framework works now only

here locally, but also state national.

So.

Big shout out to those guys
and huge shout out to Frenier.

He's retiring at the end of the year.

He's, he's termed out as far as his
drop is, is concerned, but yeah, we're

going to miss him, but he's going
to continue to work hard for us for

the ninth district being reelected.

So huge shout out to Mikey
and big, big congratulations.

Thanks again, and a big shout
out to Reed Norwood for being

part of the conversation.

And now let's turn it over to
part two of today's episode.

John and Louie will talk about the
importance of financial independence.

So in today's episode, we're
going to focus on kind of the

why of financial independence.

This is going to be super important.

This is going to really set the foundation
for future financial successes, right?

All of this stuff is going to be focused
on some of these very simple principles.

A lot of these, we're going to go
on tangents and later episodes,

but we're going to give you that.

30, 000 foot view of what it's meant
to be financially independent and why

that's so important, not only for Louie
and I, but all of our members to grasp

as a philosophical question or a concept
and really trying to achieve that.

We think it's super important for
all our members to be a part of that.

Yeah.

John, I feel like this is really the
roadmap that all future episodes will be.

About will be based off of, so before
we can talk to you guys about the

pension or why you need to have a
four 57 or why you should contribute

to a Roth IRA or anything like that,
we need to know why we're doing this,

why we're all striving for that, why
we want to be financially independent.

So this is really.

In some ways, probably going to be
the most important episode that we do,

because it is really the groundwork
for everything else that we'll discuss.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

And it's some of this stuff, you guys
are going to be like, man, this is basic.

This is, I could tell my
kindergartner, I could explain this

to them and they would grasp it.

And it's that simple concept
of this is very simple to

understand, but it's not easy.

Because there's so many things
life throws us challenges and how

we deal with those challenges.

But yeah, there's going to be nothing.

I feel like Louie and I
are going to discuss today.

That is going to blow
your guys hairs back.

But I do feel like it is super
important and essential to get a base

foundation of financial literacy.

This is financial literacy 101.

And without setting that roadmap.

That foundation, it's going to be
really tough to have us have additional,

more complex topics and conversations
if we don't have the basics down.

So really important that we're
going to discuss this today.

So we'll start with, and I'll kick it
off to Louie and just get your thoughts.

And this is something that, you know,
that you've been given as far as a

recruit presentation for several years
now, and this is one that you always

open up with, and I always love to
hear some of the responses back from

some of the recruits, because I think
a lot of us have not internalized this

or even Thought about this concept,
but when we talk about financial

independence, what's it mean to you?

What's financial independence?

It's a, always a good question.

Always good to get people's feedback
on what that means, because I think

there's a lot of different definitions.

There's a lot of misconceptions
about what it means.

I think.

Some people will say, Oh, it's someone
that has like a, it's a multimillionaire.

Somebody has 10 million or
someone who's just absurdly rich.

That's what financially independent means.

And that's not really the
definition that we use.

We believe that as firefighters, we
can achieve financial independence.

The definition that I like to
use is financial independence

is having enough income from
investments, from pensions, from.

Secure sources to cover your reasonable
living expenses indefinitely,

or at least for the longterm
30 years, 25 years, 35 years.

So that is the definition that we go on.

I think in the fire movement, which
we'll talk about later, financial

independence, retire early, they accept
that having investments equal to 25

times your annual living expenses.+----

Is enough to be considered
financially independent.

And John, that is called
the 4 percent rule.

The 4 percent rule.

Yes.

And the 4 percent rule has actually
been around for a long time.

And for those of you that like math
and like nerdery and stuff, this

guy named Bill Bingen, who was a
financial advisor, actually a really

smart mathematician as well, but he
basically came up with this formula.

He did a, basically a back study.

He combed through a bunch of data and
said over a 30 year retirement career.

You could have this much money taken
out of your portfolio and basically

you wouldn't ever run out of money.

You'd have enough of the principal
left to live that last 30th year.

And it assumed a portfolio of 50
percent stocks and 50 percent bonds.

And yeah, that's basically what he
came up with is the safe withdrawal

rate is what that's called 4%.

Of your pool of money.

You can withdraw safely and have
a very low chance of running

out of money in retirement.

So you have a million dollars saved up.

You can take out 40, 000 every
year, and you'll be good to go with

that over that 30 year retirement.

This is just what is widely
accepted in financial planning.

And how much money you can safely
take out without having to take

on too much risk is really what
the 4 percent rule is all about.

So John, how do you feel about that?

Is that something that you and your
family are pretty confident in?

Do you think it's going
to be more than 4%?

Less than 4%?

Yeah, man, we could go, we could probably
talk about hours for withdrawal rates

and percentages and everything else.

I am of the belief in the school
that I like to have flexibility.

So rather than have just this one number
that you're trying to live the next

30 years of your retirement through
is to be dynamic and be adaptable.

So sometimes when the market's ripping and
you've made a lot of money, Maybe you take

a little bit more and then other times
where the market's depressed or you're

actually lost a little bit of money, the
belt, we're going to tighten the belt.

And we all do that.

And in so much of this is what I've
learned from the psychological component

of investing in behavioral side of
investing is like, this is naturally

what we do every day in our lives.

And just, we got to be adaptable
and mold to what the market is

doing and how you're constructing
some of those, uh, investments.

But I think generally good rule of
thumb, I think it still holds true.

I think there's been a lot of research
done by Morningstar and some of these

other big companies that do a lot of,
uh, Time and effort and resources into

investigating this and they've all kind
of settled around give or take a half

a percent here and there Four percent
has been pretty widely accepted whether

that's over 30 years Sometimes they might
even forecast that a little bit longer.

I think generally for our group.

I think that's a good
That's a good goal to have.

Yeah, let's save up enough money that
in theory We could take out four percent

of this and and we would be just fine
all right, so john it sounds like now

we have a kind of a working definition
here is financial independence is You

know Uh, basically having enough income
that you can withdraw somewhere around 4

percent of your portfolio in retirement.

And that 4 percent would cover all of
your reasonable living expenses for.

A long period of time, 25 years,
35 years, hopefully for some of

these guys, 40 years, cause they
get out of here in a really fairly

early age and they live a long time.

I think that is super important to
understand that working definition

of financial independence.

My question to you would be,
why should our members care

about financial independence?

We're telling these guys to download this
podcast and to listen to us and bear with

us as we figure out how to do podcasting,
but why should we as firefighters

achieve financial independence?

It goes back to, I think, everything
that we hold near and dear to

this profession, and that's,
um, planning for the unexpected.

Like every call we go on, there's
always a little wrinkle that

happens that we didn't foresee.

We had the best laid plans,
and then something else

happened, and we didn't know.

We had to come up with a plan B and a
plan C, and I think that should be no

different in your personal finances.

I think everyone wants to
put in a good career here.

Life happens.

Life happens every day and I think
more than anything in this career, it

is put in front of our face every day
when we see things happen that people

never accounted for or planned on.

For sure.

Yeah.

You can't turn a blind eye to
not being able to anticipate

what tomorrow is going to bring.

Tacking on to that, we've
had members this year.

That have unexpectedly had to retire
numerous members over the last 12

months that have had to do that.

They weren't expecting that.

I don't necessarily know their financial
situation and if they were financially

independent and if they're going to be
okay, but you're right to your point.

We, we don't know when we can't
work or when we're done working.

Huge reason to be financially independent.

Huge reasoning.

And I'll tell you what, this
place, the fire department and this

organization, you already have a
pretty significant safety net more

than any other corporation or industry.

And that's with our death and disability
plan that we have through FPPA.

And we'll talk about that
in a later segment, because

that's a huge later episode.

Yep.

But that is one of those we've
already have an additional safety net.

So a lot of those folks that had to leave.

Typically it was for a
medical reason, right?

And they weren't able to perform this job
anymore, at least from what NFPA says.

So they already had a little bit of
safety net, but nonetheless, you always

want to kind of plan for the unexpected.

And I think for me, this understanding of
financial independence changed viscerally.

With me when I had a family and it
wasn't more just about myself, right?

I had to think about people beyond
just myself and thinking about

my wife, Katie and my two boys.

And that, I think naturally that
paternal instinct takes over and you

want to start providing for them.

In case something else happens to you,
or you just want to be the best guardian

that you possibly can be for your family.

And that's for the fire family too.

That's not just for our
own personal family.

And we want to make sure that we
carry on that message, that things

are going to happen in life that we
just can't account for, but we can

definitely give you some tools and
some strategies to help weather those

storms because they're going to come.

Yep.

Yep.

I think when we ask this to the
recruits, we, you know, when we do our

financial presentation, the recruits, I.

We, I asked them what, why should
we care about financial dependence

and caring for loved ones is
always at the top of the list.

I mean, that's like one of the
top two or three all the time.

Like people are like, I got children,
I got a wife, I, or a husband, or

I got someone who depends on me.

And I think that being able to care
and provide for your loved ones,

whether you live a long time or you
die unexpectedly early, like you want

to make sure that you leave them not
hanging on the rope, so to speak.

That's a huge reason for it.

Another reason that we hear
a lot is people want freedom.

People want, you mentioned flexibility.

People also want just freedom that
could be freedom to retire early.

It could be freedom to continue to
work because they like this job.

It could be freedom to pursue.

Passions and hobbies and
things outside of work.

People want that, that freedom
to do what they want to do.

And in my opinion, the best
way to have that freedom is to

have financial independence.

I think a lot of people actually call
it financial freedom for that reason,

because you're not beholden to the
banks or to creditors or to whatever.

You can pursue those
things that you want to.

And then just, we've talked
about this a lot too, in general,

but with recruits as well.

Being broke sucks, right?

Like I think we've all been there.

We've all, whether, whether it was in
college or whether it was early on in

our careers, we've all been broke and it.

Damn, does it suck?

No one wants that, right?

Like it sucks to stress out about bills
and about creditors and about your

credit score I mean, no one wants that.

That's awful.

No one wants that.

I mean, I remember being younger This is
college level and I was with the devil

with Wells Fargo And I remember the worst
And I just remember some of the overdraft

fees and just being in the hole and
just being like how did I get myself in?

this position and just not A taking
personal accountability, but just going

through the motions and not having a plan.

And I think so much about what Louie and
I really focused on moving forward is

just how important it is to have a plan.

So we're not just shooting from the hip
and we'll talk about just how important

having some financial goals and.

Financial plans in the future.

But yeah, being, being in debt sucks being
beholden to creditors or all these other

things, feeling you have to be obligated
to work, not just cause you want to, but

you have to not being a burden is also a
lot of things that we hear about people.

And I think this is more for folks that
are older when they've got adult kids

and adult children, they typically don't
want to be a burden to them and they

want to have everything in line for them.

So.

There's so many things that go into
this concept of financial independence

or freedom and people's intrinsic
motivations to try to achieve that.

But I think it's just super important
that the discussion is being had.

And I think the longer you do this career,
you just realize like it's a great career

and it's a great organization to work
for and work with and all the members.

But at some point you do reach
your threshold where you're

ready, where you're just ready.

And we want our members when
they get to that point, right?

To be ready and financially ready and
not work here because they have to right?

We want them to work here because
they want to I mean, let's be real

We've both seen guys that are here
way past their expiration date.

They don't they Physically, they're
past their expiration date or mentally.

They've just had it but they have to
work because they have Debt to pay off.

They have a mortgage payment.

They have all these things They
just can't financially retire

and now that sucks like that.

It's terrible to see that like we
don't want those guys working here

We don't want them to be here longer
than they want to be here And if

they had financial independence,
they'd be able to say I'm gone.

I'm done.

I've put in my time.

I'm ready to go do whatever my
next adventures are in retirement,

but That's what we shoot for.

That's what we should all shoot for is
being able to get out of here when we

want to get out of here That's the name
of the game with financial independence.

That's the name of the game.

And so many of those things are
things that they feel might've been

out of their control to some level.

And we'll talk about some pitfalls
here coming up, but getting

divorced, all these other things,
especially later on in your career.

It's just, it's once again, it's these,
it's these, Weathering these storms

and how we try to absorb that and how
do we try to pivot and move forward

and come up with a good cohesive plan.

But, you know, we talked about what
it is to be financially independent,

at least a working definition.

We talked about a why's, uh, uh,
beyond why people want to become,

uh, financially independent or
both personally, our reasonings.

Now it's the meat and potatoes.

Once again, this is the pillars of how.

To become financially independent.

And I'm going to preface it once again,
the pillars that we're going to talk

about, everyone is going to be like.

This is so obvious.

This couldn't be more simple, just not
easy, but we're going to nonetheless,

we're going to walk through them.

We're going to discuss them just so
once again, when we move forward in

future episodes, and we always are
going to come back to some of these

first principles, we want to make
sure that everyone's on the same level

about what financial independence is.

So talking about that, Louie, there's
obviously different, different

pillars, but live below your means.

All right, this is concept number one,
kind of first level principles number one.

What's that mean to you?

Yeah, I think living below your means,
like you said, John, is the key.

Basically the first step, if you want
to become financially independent, the

first thing you have to do is create
a surplus in terms of what you bring

in versus what you have going out.

So we call that living below your
means spending less than you earn.

And to me, what that
means is having a budget.

I think those that know me know that
I'm a huge budget nerd and that I

have huge spreadsheet, spreadsheets.

and all these budget programs
and things like that.

Uh, and it doesn't have to be that way.

I think at the highest level,
what a budget is a plan.

It's a plan for how you are
going to spend your money.

It's a plan for how you're going to
pay yourself and pay your retirement.

You got to have that.

If you do not live below your
means, with the help of some kind of

structure, some kind of budget, then
you're setting yourself up to Get into

debt to fail to save for retirement.

So for me, John, I would say living below
your means is having a budget, sticking

to it and making sure that you have a
surplus of income at the end of the month.

Once again, and you said it from
the get go, that's not, it's simple.

It's very simple.

It's a, it's just, it's
a numbers game, right?

It's a simple math problem, but it's not.

Easy to live below your means and you
know for firefighters, especially we

like toys We like to spend we like trucks
and that kind of leads us into Number

two the second pillar that we're going
to talk about in terms of achieving

financial independence and that is
getting out And staying out of debt.

Can you talk to us a
little bit more about that?

Yeah, I would love to I just want
to go back really quick on the live

below your means and in air quotes
It's budgeting to a certain degree.

You have to realize what's coming
in versus what's going out and it's

always a it's always A word that
is thought of with some disdain

and, oh man, that sounds hard.

I don't want to do that.

That sounds like that's too restrictive.

Like I want to have more
freedom in how I spend money.

And we'll talk once again, I
think we're going to have a huge

episode, probably just on budgeting.

But I think it is good for those that
are trying to hit the ground running

right now and start to come up with
some strategies as far as budgeting.

You mentioned one thing specifically
that you used YNAB, which

stands for you need a budget.

And you're really passionate about this.

When we were sitting on the plane coming
back from Boston, Louie, Reed, and I

were all sitting in the same row and
he was showing Reed and I like all the

things he could do with this software
and how he could see the accounts that

he could set up and how he was delegating
from one account to the other account.

And it's all real time.

It tracks where the money's
going, where it comes from.

I mean, extremely detailed, right?

Very detailed to, I feel confident that,
you know, where all your money is going

to the scent exactly on what it is.

Some people might think that's OCD, right?

And some people will think, man, that
is way too detail oriented for me.

And it's not.

It's all about what works for you.

Absolutely.

And I think that's one of the things that
we want to discuss There's no perfect

solution you have to You know The best
plan is the plan that you're going to

stick with and what's going to work for
you and yeah Not what's going to work

for louis what's not going to work for
me, but what's going to work for you?

and you mentioned that you don't really
have a A detailed budget like that,

but you do have a plan for your money
You do have an amount that you save you

have targets that you hit you need to
save for Long term goals or short term

goals and then you live off the rest.

That's a budget It's maybe not as
structured as mine, but that's still

a budget that you And Katie worked
through and set up so that you guys

can have a plan for your money.

Yep, exactly.

We know what we need
to say for retirement.

And we always hit that goal.

We know what we need to say for our
kids education and we hit that goal

and then any other additional kind
of big purchase things we set aside

and we know, and we want to hit that
goal and pretty much whatever is

remaining is what is free to spend.

It is funny though.

Once we got back from Boston, we had some
credit cards come up and we're just like,

man, did we really spend that much money?

Yeah.

And to Louie's credit, I actually
signed up for YNAB and we just

started importing some of the
credit cards and everything else.

And I honestly, I don't think it's going
to change a lot of our spending, but

I think it was what it's going to do.

And if you talk to any financial expert,
really were a lot of the happiness with

spending money is in the intentionality of
it and being intentional with your money.

And man, if you take 20, 000
vacations and that brings you

a tremendous amount of joy.

Then More power to you, but then
maybe you take less money on, maybe

cars aren't important to you, so you
don't spend as much money on that.

So it's basically just prioritizing
your life's goals and what truly

derives passion and happiness and
allocating that money for that.

And I think that's what Katie and I
talked about when we, when we, Look

at some of these credit card bills.

Like we've got the money to pay for
it, but it's man, did we really spend

that much money on whatever it was?

And this just really, this software
specifically can tell you to

a T where your money's going.

It does.

And I would say the average
person has zero idea.

I mean, to a degree they do,
but if you asked them, how much

do you spend on eating out?

They'd be like, no idea.

Yeah.

And all that other stuff or Amazon, right?

That's everyone's bane.

It seems like these days is like
Amazon or streaming services.

Yeah.

And so Caitlin and I, my wife, Caitlin
and I have been budgeting for, I mean,

ever since we were married, I think
maybe even more engaged, we created

a, like a wedding budget together.

We've used YNAB during that time.

And just to clarify, we
are not sponsored by YNAB.

We do not even endorse it.

This is just a tool that we've
used that I use particularly.

Not saying that if YNAB doesn't want to
reach out to us and sponsor us, we're

always, we're willing to listen to offers.

But so I've been, I've had a YNAB
budget for probably 11 years and

it's contrary to popular belief.

I think a lot of people think of
budget and they think of restrictions.

They think of constraints, they think of.

Oppression.

This is telling me no, what I can't do.

I actually find it very freeing
hitting on what you said.

We want to save for a
vacation or whatever.

Caitlin and I've had to do that too.

We've, over the years, we've been
able to set money aside and give it

a job of buying a new house or buying
furniture or saving for that vacation.

And our budget makes sure that we don't
spend those dollars are our vacation

dollars or furniture dollars on.

Chipotle or on something
silly that on Amazon.

So it really makes us be intentional about
our money and Contrary to what people

think I don't think it's restrictive.

I actually think it's very freeing.

I can't imagine actually not living
Without a budget and I don't think anyone

should doesn't have to be a YNAB budget
doesn't have to be very detailed But

you gotta have a plan for your dollars
If you want to live below your means

you have to be intentional And you
have to have a plan and that plan is

generally formally called the budget.

Yep.

Perfect.

I think that was well said.

And yeah, I'm really curious.

I'll report back.

We get a free, I think it's like
a 31 day or 34 day trial period.

We're going to go through a month
and just see what it looks like.

And it's just nice because it really
does tabulate all your spending.

Oh, and in this, I should preface this.

We spent.

Put most, almost all of our expenses on
credit cards that we pay off every month.

But this is going to be a way to track
that spending and where the money's going.

Thanks Louie for just pointing that out.

Um, there's several other, like this is
not the only software that does this.

There's other stuff that,
that, that looks at it.

So once again, I would just, you know,
encourage our folks to at least if you

don't have a budget, think about it.

Think about where your money's going.

Think about the intentionality behind it.

And I think you're just going to be better
served if you know where your money's

going and really putting your dollars.

What drives the most happiness from you.

But that gets back to point
number two, as far as how do you

become financially independent?

And that is this concept of getting
out and staying out of debt.

Oh, huge one, right?

Huge one.

Biggest pitfall for Americans generally
and firefighters specifically is getting

out of debt, staying out of debt.

It is hard.

And we're not, you know, we're, we're
not trying to beat up on anyone.

We don't want, we know there's a lot of
shame and a lot of Really strong emotions

tied to to debt and we understand that
but at the end of the day I think John

and I are both willing to draw a hard
line and say it's important we as People

that care about your finances as people
that want to see our co workers do well

We want you guys to get out and stay out
of debt Yeah, no, and that's one of those

things and we'll once again, we'll have
further episodes on this specific topic

But it's one that's definitely front
and center and it's not lost on louis

or myself on The challenges, especially
our new firefighters are facing.

Our incomes have never been higher.

Big shout out to the negotiation team
and us getting best in class salaries.

But you know, the cost of living in this
area specifically between housing for one.

Insane.

And then a lot of our, uh, Folks are
realizing this too, and they didn't

really account for it or think about it
is the cost to have a child and childcare

costs and those two by themselves,
I'm going to go on record and say,

that is probably where the majority
of our members salaries are going.

I mean, almost exclusively just for that
bit, by the time they pay the mortgage.

And or rent and if they have a child
and they're paying for child care

Those two I would go on record as
saying those have to be the two most

Expensive line items every month.

Yeah, I would say truck payments are
probably way up high there, too It's

probably a they're very close third there,
but I agree with you Those are probably

the two biggest things and to clarify when
we talk about debt, getting out of debt.

We're not saying, Hey, you
need to pay off that mortgage.

Cause that's terrible.

Or have all cash to go
in on a 1, 000 house.

Like we know there's going to be a
certain level of debt that, uh, our

members and Louie and I specifically
are going to have to take on, right.

That's just part of life.

That's just part of life.

And that's okay.

Yeah.

So we're not saying avoid any of
those things because that's a need.

That you have to do, I mean, that's
the only way to facilitate that,

but we definitely do recognize that
we just don't want to be on the

surface being like, Oh yeah, just
get out of debt and stay out of debt.

Like it, we understand like there
is some significant headwinds that

our members are facing right now.

And we're acknowledging that.

And on future episodes, we're going to
try to try to give the best guidance,

if you will, on ways to help manage
it and mitigate some of those things.

But the things that really, I think
our members starting today, one, no

can avoid, or, you know, Credit card
debt for the most part, stuff that

you're putting on your credit card.

Once again, I think a lot of our
members do this as well as they put a

lot of their spending on credit card,
but like those are easy to do, right?

Like the one flick method and all these
other things they have for spending money.

Like we are constantly.

Americans having to fight off consumerism
because there's so much money that's

spent on advertising and marketing.

And it's just so easy now.

Just have it.

It's just a buy now culture, right?

Like we all know that's just what we are.

We want it now.

We want to deliver it.

Amazon will give it to you the same day.

I mean, come on, let's just put it on the
card, figure out how to pay it off later.

And that's just, I mean, that's
just so financially unhealthy.

Like that leads to some very.

Very bad long term repercussions
when you live above your means,

when you're basically spending
more than you're earning.

It's a vicious cycle.

You're constantly feeling like
you're pushing that rock up the

Hill and you get a little bit there.

Maybe you pay off a little bit more
than the minimum on the credit cards.

You're like, okay, cool.

I'll make a little headway.

And then something else in life happens.

And then all of a sudden you, that that
rock comes rolling right back over you.

And all of a sudden you're back
at square one, pushing that rock

back up the Hills, trying to avoid.

Those levels of debt that
are manageable, right?

Are those levels of spending that are
manageable, not getting into credit card

debt, not paying 28 percent interest,
which is like loan shark, like shouldn't

even be allowed, should be completely
illegal type of, but that's it.

But that's not rare for a credit card.

That's probably very
common or very accepted.

And that's, people are paying that
every time that credit card bill comes

in and you don't pay it off in full.

That is what you're paying.

Like you cannot, it, it is very
hard to get outta that cycle,

but that's, you're throwing a lot
of money away when you do that.

Yeah.

It was a little bit of a tangent,
but that made me think of something

that we've seen a lot in the
recruit classes when we give this

presentation, when they talk about debt.

Good Tet versus bad debt.

Oh, sure.

Yeah.

And this is something that always
gets brought up and an understanding

and something that Louis and I in the
last couple classes incorporated was

this concept of your credit score and
what makes up a good credit score.

Mm-Hmm.

. I'll be honest with you.

I was Mortified about what some of the
responses from our folks were because they

just don't understand How credit scores
are calculated and then also what makes

up a good credit score like all these
other things So, you know in the future

we're going to talk more about this like
once again I think this is a segment all

to itself is talking about credit scores
and how to improve your credit scores But

we just know that we've got some work to
do to do, um, on some education on some

of that stuff, but it all really goes
back to, yep, living below your means.

Number one, trying to manage the
debt that you have the best, your

ability and not take on excessive
debt when it's not needed.

And I think that also, so, you know,
this is probably going to cause us to

lose some subscribers already, even
though we don't have a lot, but I'm going

to say it too, is that also includes.

Car loans vehicle loans.

I mean that is for firefighters.

We all like to drive nice cars, right?

And you go into any fire station
parking lot and you see some oh, man,

this ain't very expensive vehicles
This ain't the chief Armstrong.

This is the Geo Metro.

Yeah, I've been rocking around
30 years Shout out to your chief.

You could have a nice Range Rover if
you wanted to I know the salary you're

committed But you choose not to yeah,
it's obviously not a priority for him

and look and we're not saying that
You You shouldn't have a nice truck.

Like we're not even, we're not
even trying to tell you like

that's a silly thing to do.

But what we're saying is the car loans
that come with it, especially with today's

interest rates, I mean, it is brutal.

And we get into this cycle as
Americans generally, firefighters

specifically, of having a car carrying
around this massive loan payment

on the car of 700, 800, 9, 000.

Like that, that there are guys out here.

I promise you there are guys in
this department that have a 900 or

a thousand dollar truck payment.

So they'll do that for six or seven years.

That's the term of loan.

The average length of a, of a
loan today is over six years.

Like that is nuts.

So they'll do that for six or seven years.

They get tired of the truck at that point.

It's not new.

It doesn't have all
the bells and whistles.

They go to the dealership and
the dealer says, Hey, guess what?

I can keep your 900 truck payment the
same and take this truck off your hands

and give you a brand new one with all
the bells and whistles and You got it

for another seven years and then they
do that again and again And if you were

to you know add up what that would cost
over the course of a career it is I mean

hundreds of thousands of dollars hundreds
of thousands of dollars and that is

something that We do as firefighters a
lot we do as Americans a lot and that is

really robbing from your future if you're
doing that I just want to be clear if

that's your priority and you think that
it's so important to you that you need

that Understand that in the long run, it's
gonna cost you hundreds of thousands of

dollars and it might be worth it for you
But I would challenge podcast to really

think about if they think it's worth it
in the long run Any kind of debt that you

get into but especially credit card debt
Car loans it robs from your future by

crippling your number one wealth building
tool, and that's your income You're

crippling your income because you're
diverting a large amount of your income

to debt repayment and you can't put it to
work for the future, which is what we're

going to talk about in just a second,
that third pillar of financial dependence.

But, uh, And I think the, just a last
part of that is, is I think so many

things like the car loan specifically
or the new vehicles, I think there's

so many soft costs that go into
that, that people don't even realize.

Think about like the cost of register,
this thing, how much more your insurance

now, like auto insurance is up in
a lot of places, like 20, 30, 40%.

So it's not only this 700,
800, 900 more payment.

It's now it's an extra 250 per month.

To ensure this it's an extra.

Oh, man, that registration cost me
eighteen hundred dollars And it's all

of these like things that we think
of not as the monthly payment But all

the associated payments for that that
just continue to make that snowball.

I mean just bigger and bigger.

Yep Yep, very well said I
completely agree with you.

That's there's hidden cost
not just Your loan payment.

All right our three simple steps that
we said we were going to talk about

to become financially independent We
talked about living below your means

with the budget We talked about getting
out and staying out of debt And then

the reason why we do those two things
why we live below our means and create

the surplus The reason why we're out of
debt is that so we can start investing

so that we can invest early and often
Really at the end of the day if you

Want to be financially independent.

You got to have some money.

You got to have a pool of money.

That's not being eaten up by
credit cards and by student loans.

That's not being spent as you make it.

Uh, you got to have a
surplus that you invest.

What do you think about that?

Yeah.

I mean, that's the,
that's the key to success.

It's like a three pillars,
if you will, a bar stool kind

of concept of tripod, right?

You got the two legs and now
we're talking about the third leg.

If any one of those legs goes,
we're not, that thing is not

going to be upright and standing.

So yeah, investing for the longterm,
that's the key for everything.

And Louie and I will talk more in
the future about what we think.

Beal is like appropriate amounts to
be saving and all these other things,

just generally speaking, not giving
specific financial advice, but generally

speaking, some good rules of thumb.

And the old saying is it's always
better to have time in the market

and not try to time the market and
the market being the stock market.

So the sooner you can get
that in, the better it is.

And there's a little
magical thing we call.

Time, value of money, the old time
value of money and compounding interest.

And that's really what it's all about.

And that's the irony of the whole
situation is when you're just getting

started out, you just got hired, you're
making this money, you're trying to

make ends meet by either paying for
your apartment or your house, or

you got a car payment, you got kids.

It's honestly the best time that we
need to have some of that extra money

to be saving because the longer we
let that ride, we know those last

few years of compounding is really.

Where you start to see the difference.

If you talk to anyone here that's
pre 2007 that is still in our

money purchase plan So our general
retirement our 401k plan type thing.

They'll let you know like
for the first 20 years.

It sucks You're like dude, I'm throwing
money in here all day long I keep putting

on all this money the apartments matching
this and putting in all this money But

it ain't going anywhere and it's not
always the investments that you're in.

It's just like It takes so long
for that money to start compounding

that you feel like, once again,
like this is a fruitless in Denver.

I just keep doing this thing and
I'm not seeing a lot of movement.

All of a sudden though, things start
to change and they change rapidly.

And you talk to people and
all of a sudden their one year

difference can be three, 400, 000.

And it took them 20 years to
get any type of that movement.

And now they're seeing it.

In one year, and that's really
where the magic happens.

We can show you all sorts of charts
and graphs and exactly how compounding

works, but feel free to research
any of this stuff on your own.

And there's plenty of financial
calculators that will tell you exactly

based on your savings, what this
looks like, but the major point is.

Saving early and saving
often is the key to success.

It makes everything so much easier
and we don't want to discourage you.

If you're a little bit late to the
game or you've had some pitfalls in

your financial journey, that's okay.

You can still make up for it, but
we do really want to let our members

know, or maybe earlier in their careers
that this will be exponentially,

literally exponentially, Easier for you.

If you invest early, the sooner you can
start getting that money in the market.

And John said, earning compound interest,
compound gains, the better it will be.

And there's, there's this rule.

It's called the rule of 72.

We encourage you guys to look that up too.

It's basically, once again, it's a rule
of thumb, not like a principle, but

the rule of thumb or the rule of 72
is that if you take an interest rate,

if you divide 72 by an interest rate,
that will tell you how long it's It

would take for your money to double.

So let's say you take
out some type of a bond.

So it's fixed income.

It's not going to change.

It's going to be 10%.

You know, that based on the rule of
72, basically every seven years, a

little over every seven years, that
thing is going to double in value.

So if you had a hundred thousand
dollars in there in seven years,

it would be 200, 000, but in
another seven years, it won't be.

300, 000, it'll be 400, 000.

And then the next doubling
goes from 400 to 800, 000.

I mean, that is, and that's not counting
anything else that you're putting

in there, your other investments.

So now you're talking about after
three doubling periods, you might

be close to a million dollars.

That's the power of compound interest
and of the time value of money.

So we really encourage people that if
you really want to achieve financial

independence, at the end of the day,
you have to invest in In the market.

And we will talk it.

We'll talk in future episodes,
like John said about our preferred

investment methods and our opinions,
not our advice, but our opinions.

But at the end of the day,
those three things are what we

believe leads you to financial
independence, living below your means.

Getting out and staying
out of debt and investing.

And what those three things mean
to me, Louis, just like anything

else in life, those are habits.

All of those are habits.

Everything that we just discussed are
habits that you can form or not form

or take on later in life or take on
now and building those good habits.

So even for those folks, you guys that
are just starting out and you can put

in 50 into your four 57, a hundred
dollars, 25, whatever, get it started now.

And then when you do have some more
runway, when you do have some more

flexibility, when your income starts
coming in, maybe you get married and

you have another income or you got
another income from a different source.

Like then you can start.

Um, building those habits, but it really
does start with like contribute now.

And I'm really proud of this, uh,
organization and the membership.

And we have a really strong, uh,
position when it comes to people

contributing to their four 57 plans.

We have a really high
take up rate of that.

And I think those are creating those
really good, solid, um, foundational

values that will help you achieve
financial independence in the future.

Yep.

Yep.

So that's the roadmap.

That's how you achieve
financial independence.

And that is.

That's the forest.

If you will, the trees will be that
we discuss in our next and future

episodes will be the tools that we
use to achieve those three steps.

So we'll talk about budgeting.

We'll talk about the pension.

We'll talk about Roth basis
versus traditional basis.

And we'll start really
laying the groundwork.

I'm sorry, not laying the groundwork,
but actually building out.

We're going to build the house.

Yeah, we've got the foundation after
today's episode, the foundation is in,

it's cured and I will start forming it up.

And we'll start designing an exquisite
house for all of our members out there.

One of the things that we typically
came up and we've already touched

on some of them, but some of the
pitfalls that will prevent us from

getting to some of these successes,
we've already hit on a couple of them.

The debt and the credit card's a big one.

I briefly mentioned it.

And if you talk to Captain McCullen,
this is the one that he highlights.

Yeah.

Always tells him recruits this every time.

Actually, I want to say day one stuff.

He's always comes in and.

In typical McCullin fashion, his glasses
down around his, around his nose.

And he's looking down and
then he's looking back up.

He's looking down and he, he jokingly
always asks all the recruits, what's

the most important financial decision
you'll ever make in your life?

And he says it just like that.

And I've been in there for several
times when there's been some responses

and he kind of shakes his head and
everything else like this and what's

his, what's his response to that?

His response to that is the most important
financial decision you will ever make is.

The person you marry and I would
like to take credit for that actually

though because I put that in a
slide and then he liked it so Much

because he has some stories man.

That guy has some scars and some
stories He liked it so much that

he decided to start talking to the
recruits about that At the beginning

of academy like way before I got there
with the financial presentation, but

that is true I would say, you know Not
only is the person you marry the most

important financial decision you'll
ever make, it's the, it's the most

important decision you'll ever make.

Life decision, 100%.

But when it comes to financial
independence, who you marry will

make it Much easier or much harder
depending on that person and you

know, we're definitely not advocating.

Okay, let's Start over end your
relationships like this person's not

making it easy for me to achieve financial
independence But you got to be mindful

about it You got to think about it
because you will have an easier time or

a much much harder time Achieving your
financial goals And, and part of why

I brought that up specifically is, you
know, that has derailed a lot of our

members here and they're achieving their
financial independence first and foremost.

But the other part I wanted
to highlight is we want this.

Podcast to be available to all, not
only just our local members, but

any spouses, significant others, and
share that information because we

want you guys to be on the same team.

Like it's much easier to move down
the stream when you guys are rowing

in sync versus going the other way.

And so many of these conversations,
they can be difficult conversations

to have, um, but they're
important conversations to have.

And if you're, if your teammates, uh,
in line with, A lot of your values

and visions around money and how
you guys are going to save or spend.

Oh my gosh.

It just makes things so much easier.

So much easier.

And that's what we want for you guys.

We're doing this and we've said
it before, but we'll say it again.

We're doing this because we care
about your financial future.

We want you guys to not be
stressed out about money.

We don't want you guys to be broke.

And John said earlier, we want
you guys to get out of here when

you want to get out of here.

The only way we can get you
there though, is if you start

following those three principles,
you got to do those three things.

Otherwise, you're going to be
one of those guys that are here

way longer than you should be.

Yeah.

Unless you're, yeah.

Unless your retirement strategy is
a plain power ball or mega millions

and just hoping for the big win.

It's going to be, it's
going to be a challenge.

The last little plug we'll make is if
you guys are interested in financial

independence, financial freedom,
a really good resource to use.

And it's a generic resource,
but it's this concept.

Called the FIRE movement, uh, Louie
mentioned it kind of in the beginning.

And it stands for financial
independence, retire early.

Do you know where that
term came from, Louie?

Do you know who's the first one
that kind of got credit for that?

I don't, I'm not sure, but I
know the term has been around.

It was really popular
about six, seven years ago.

There was just this massive movement.

There was all kinds of podcasts and all
kinds of personalities that came out

saying, Hey, we're going to retire at 35.

80 percent of our income
and we're going to retire.

Work hard for 10 years and
then we're going to retire it

by 40 or by 35 or something.

But, you know, even though that might be
extreme and we're not saying you should

achieve that and you should do that,
the principles are really good because

they're all about living below your means
and about investing for the longterm.

So.

Yeah, it's a great resource to look at.

There's a lot of fire personalities,
financial independence, retired

early personalities that can give
you some resources on how to do all

the things that we just discussed.

Yeah.

And I love it for, so I actually had to
look it up and it actually first got.

Accredited for a book
that was written in 1992.

It was called your money or your life.

It was by Vicki Robbins and
this guy named Joe Dominguez.

And she was the one, they
collectively created this nine

step framework for how to.

Achieve financial independence.

She's the first one.

They're both kind of the first ones
of being the the Generators of that

the genesis of the fire movement.

Did they coin the fire term or did
that I didn't think that came later I

think they were the ones that basically
put in the steps that we Louie and I

talked about and just really it was
more of a philosophical question is

What is money supposed to be used for?

Why do you make money?

What is money do for you?

And it was more of this
reprioritization of your life's goals.

And once again, prioritizing your life
goals in money and making those align

and making things be intentional.

And we all know that we all have
a limited time on this planet, on

this earth, and the number one,
most valuable resource we have.

It's time.

And we want you guys to be able to
enjoy your time, um, not only your

time working here at the FD, but
also your time long after the FD.

So I would once again, just encourage if
you guys are interested in this concept,

and there's a lot of different bloggers,
podcasts, books, all sorts of things.

There's a lot of different forms
that fire has taken people that

save beyond aggressive, like 80
percent versus some people that

save less because they spend less.

It's just a good reference.

If you guys are interested at all in
this concept of financial independence.

And it's, man, there's years worth
of material to research on this.

Louie and I, in the future, we'll delve
on some of the topics that they hit

on, but I just wanted to plug that in.

If this is at least piqued an interest
in the concept and you guys want to get

a little bit more context with it, we
just wanted to get a shout out to the

fire movement and just the concepts
behind that, because really, whether

you like it or not, everyone pretty much
that works here, minus a couple of us,

we're going Are going to be subjected
to the fire movement because we're going

to retire early based on what society
thinks what we should retire A lot

of our members will retire before 60.

I had to do some research and figure
out what the average retirement age is

Do you know louie for a firefighter?

No, just in general society Oh boy
today I want to say it's probably

something something like 65 if I
had a guess 65 So it's actually 61.

Okay, but the caveat to that is the
average person feels like they're going to

work till 67 So once again thinking about
financial independence being adaptable

coming up with wrinkles all these other
things having Maybe more than you think

you need or being able to have a plan
b People think that they're going to

work longer than they actually do And
I would say that we are every bit as

subjected to that working here with the
stressors of the job and the things that

we're encountering and everything else.

There's a lot of things that are very
applicable to the fire movement and the

concept of the challenges of having to
retire early than a lot of our other,

the general population doesn't face.

So just wanted to make that plug,
but hopefully this was beneficial.

Once again, this was very Baseline,
like very basic stuff to hopefully

comprehend and grasp, but really
we're going to take those, that three

pronged approach moving forward.

When we get a little bit more in depth
into some of the benefits that the

organization that we have as a members
here at local 1309, we're going to.

Get more in the weeds and
talk about some of that stuff.

Thanks already for those of you that
we've got some, several responses back

to ask the fiscal firehouse at gmail.

com for questions or concerns or
topics that you guys want to hear.

I'm receiving those.

So we'll definitely going to think
about that for future episodes.

And thanks for everyone.

That's been so gracious on
kind of the rollout of this.

We've gotten Louie and I both have
gotten a lot of positive feedback that

definitely gives us energy moving forward.

We want to make sure that this is landing
well and that this is it's needed.

And Louie and I just aren't up here
talking just because we feel like

we need to talk about something.

We're hoping that this
is being well received.

So huge shout out to the
membership for all of that.

Yep.

Thanks for bearing with us guys.

And we know it was a long episode.

We know we covered a lot of stuff, very
heady information that we discussed.

We think it was all good though.

The union stuff with Reed, the
financial independence topic.

Really, like we said, sets the groundwork.

So thanks for bearing with us.

Once again, John just briefly mentioned
it, but if you have any questions,

if you have any concerns, of course
you can reach out to us directly.

You guys have our phone numbers.

You guys have our personal emails,
but we encourage you to also use that,

that email to send your questions in
that email is ask fiscal firehouse.

At gmail.

com send your questions your way.

We'll address them in a later episode.

If we can, if we think it's
relevant, if we think it's good.

And yeah, we're here for you guys.

We really want to see you guys do well
financially, but thanks for joining us.

Yep.

Sounds good.

Signing off and you guys be safe
out there and we'll catch you next

time here in the local 1309 studio.

Take care.

The Fiscal Firehouse Podcast is
a podcast curated specifically

for local 1309 members.

This podcast is for informational
and educational purposes only,

and should not be construed as
professional financial advice.

Should you need professional
advice, consult a licensed

financial advisor or tax advisor.

The opinions of John Beatty, Louie
Barela, and their castmates are

solely their own, and don't reflect
that of West Metro Fire Rescue.