In-Orbit

In today's episode we're diving into the UK Space Agency's Unlocking Space for Business Programme, focusing on its impact on Financial Services and Transport & Logistics.

By tapping into satellite-derived data, the Financial Services and Transport & Logistics sectors are experiencing a revolution. From optimising supply chains to enhancing investment strategies, the Unlocking Space for Business programme aims to support companies to deliver this growth through the integration of innovative satellite data and services.

Our host Dallas Campbell is joined in the studio by Sean McCarthy from the Satellite Applications Catapult, and remotely by Laura Bealin-Kelly from the UK Space Agency, and Jocelyn Barker from PwC UK.

Find out more about Unlocking Space for Business.

Satellite Applications Catapult: LinkedIn, Twitter/X, Facebook, Website
UK Space Agency: LinkedIn, Twitter/X, Website
PWC UK: LinkedIn, Twitter/X, Website

Produced by Story Ninety-Four in Oxford.

What is In-Orbit?

Welcome to In-Orbit, the fortnightly podcast exploring how technology from space is empowering a better world.

Hello and welcome to another episode
of In-Orbit, the podcast exploring how

technology from space is empowering
a better world, brought to you by

the Satellite Applications Catapult.

I'm your host, Dallas Campbell, and
in today's episode we are diving

into the UK Space Agency Unlocking
Space for Business Programme,

focusing on its impact on financial
services and transport and logistics.

I'm joined in the studio by Sean
McCarthy, Head of Market Intelligence at

the Satellite Applications Catapult and
remotely, we have Laura Bealin Kelly,

Unlocking Space for Business Project
Lead at the UK Space Agency and Jocelyn

Barker, a consultant in PWC's Space
Practice with a focus on sustainability.

By tapping into satellite derived data,
the financial services and transport

and logistics sector are experiencing a
revolution, from optimising supply chains

to enhancing investment strategies, the
Unlocking Space for Business Programme

aims to support companies to deliver
this growth through the integration of

innovative satellite data and services.

I have in front of me a 28 page
document from the UK Space Agency

called Introduction to the Unlocking
Space for Business programme.

So where do we start with this?

The Unlocking Space for Business Programme
is a new pilot programme run by the UK

Space Agency with delivery partners PWC
and the Satellite Applications Catapult

and it's trying to do a couple of
things within an 18 month time frame.

It's really trying to get businesses
in two particular sectors, so financial

services and transport logistics
to understand the value of using

satellite data and services for them.

So trying to kind of support the space
sector through supporting businesses.

So we're still working towards
catalysing investment into the space

sector, but we're helping businesses
to really understand the value of

satellite data and how they can
actually use it within their businesses.

Okay, well it sounds reasonable,
what kind of businesses?

I mean, when you say
businesses, all businesses?

Like if I ran a sandwich
shop, is that going to be..?

This particular programme is
aimed at the finance sector and

the transport and logistics.

So you've got finance, we look
at the banking, insurance, asset

management, that kind of thing
and the transport sector is, we're

considering maritime, surface transport,
road and rail, that sort of thing.

So we call that...

Not space.

PNT.

Sean's shaking...

Isn't that?

Well, PNT is just Position, Navigation
and Timing, so that's like GPS.

But the programme's actually looking
at all of the space services.

So it would be Earth Observation, it would
be PNT, Position, Navigation and Timing

and SATCOMs and within Earth Observation,
you'd have weather data coming from radar

or optical satellites, so it's the whole
gambit of satellite technology, really.

And so what is the aim?

Is it to get more companies
thinking about using space data?

Like, are not enough
companies doing it now?

Well, one of the challenges that is
being addressed by the programme is the

fact that quite a lot of space companies
have come from technologists who may

not have worked in the banking sector.

So there's a bit of a translation that
needs to be made between the technology

and the needs of the banking world or the
needs of the finance sector and that's

always proved to be difficult in the past.

So the space agencies come up with this
great scheme to help bridge that gap.

Okay, the key word is unlocking,
how is it going to be unlocking?

Like, what's the key and
how does the mechanism work?

I think there's a couple of things
really, I wouldn't say there's one

specific key, there's a couple of keys.

So I think it's as Sean said, some of the
kind of the suppliers who are out there

at the moment, they can present solutions
in really technical language and that

can be a bit of a barrier sometimes for
businesses and actually understanding

how they can use satellite data.

So there's a bit of an education and
an awareness raising piece around

what's actually out there, what's
available and how it can solve the real

world problems that businesses have.

I think to add to Laura's point, we've
kind of, prior to this programme, did

some work to understand the key, I guess
the key barriers for organisations to

realise the potential benefits that
they can derive from satellite data

and this, from the demand side and from
end users, there's definitely this lack

of awareness and misconception as to
what satellite opportunities may even

be relevant to their business and I
think we'll definitely dive into it

more, but there's almost an infinite
number of use cases as more services

become available and a lot of end users
who could absolutely benefit from this

still often see space and satellites
as too expensive for a start and costs

are hugely reducing and continuing
to do so, but also too futuristic.

So when you've got to think, especially
from a commercial perspective, in

terms of ROI and how companies can
commercially benefit from it, I don't

think that information is necessarily
presented to decision makers in a way

that's evidence based, easy to digest,
so maybe not as technical as they don't

need to know the real technicalities
of it and we love to talk about it

because we all find it very interesting.

It's brilliant and actually on page
one of that PDF that is open on

my computer, 17 percent of UK GDP
comes from what we do in space.

That's a heck of a chunk and it's
a heck of a chunk for people not to

kind of know that's there and is...

If you think of the space services
like a utility, like electricity or

gas or water, it's providing data
of all different sorts and so many

different organisations are using this.

Well, organisations and individuals,
so GPS, communications, Google

Earth is being used by everyone.

Yes, you're right.

Actually, well, this, maybe this
is a good point before we sort

of leap into what this particular
programme is going to be doing.

Let's think about understanding
the satellite ecosystem.

If you are like, we've got satellites
up there, what are they doing?

What are the kind of the main big
headlines of what satellites do for us?

As we've said, you've got the sort
of observing satellites, the remote

sensing satellites, they were...

So cameras in the sky.

Cameras in the sky, but if you think
of it more as sensors in the sky

because it's not just optical, it's
radar, it's infrared, it's literally a

spectrum of sensors that are up there.

Traditionally, those satellites would
have been the big, bus sized satellites

that were sent up by the military or
the government or for scientists' use.

But more recently, there's been the
new space movement if you like, whereby

things have become commercialised, so
companies are sending up satellites and...

So things like Google Earth, those
sorts of images of the Earth...

Yes, well actually the Google Earth
imagery, a lot of that's coming from some

of the traditional players like Airbus.

But I think the main distinction on the
earth observation bit, we're not talking

about the communications piece, so on
Earth observation, you've got over a

thousand satellites up there and there,
there are a couple of hundred companies

that own the satellites and then there's
another ecosystem of the people that

take that data and add value to it and
then serve that back to the end users.

So just very briefly while we're on
satellite imagery and earth observation,

very briefly, a couple of good examples,
just so listeners can visualise what

we're talking about, the types of things
that we do with satellite imagery.

There's, I mean, there really is hundreds
of use cases when it comes to just Earth

Observation Data because you can see so
much and on such huge timescales, I think

that what's so fantastic about using Earth
Observation Data is you can date it back,

you have historical data sets so you can
compare and contrast changes over time.

I think some key use cases that we've
found from, I mean, across transport

logistics and financial services is
the use of tracking weather risks and

natural hazard risks, so flood risk,
wildfire risk, droughts, you can track

changes in time, you can predict, you
can build models and predict how, which

areas might be at risk, what assets
might be at risk, and then mitigate that.

For people to visualise this, it
would be the imagery you're getting

of forests being burnt down.

You know, and you're seeing
these huge scars, and that,

that can be seen from space.

Ice flows, that's seen from space and of
course, all the weather satellites with

typhoons and tsunamis and, that, those
are all satellites providing information.

But what has changed recently and because
some forms of satellites have been around

but for 40 years you can look at change
over a longer period so you can see where

forests has been cut down or more you
know in a shorter type of span you can

look at seasonality so you can actually
look at harvests and agriculture and see

how wheat is growing or you can actually
see how busy or how cities are growing,

shanty towns things like that all of those
things can be picked up quite easily.

It's unbelievable.

So satellite imagery, Earth Observation,
yes, you mentioned it, Sean, before,

things like connectivity, communications,
that's the other big sort of area.

Where are we now with that?

I mean, from kind of Telstar

Oh right.

Back in the dark ages.

yeah, yeah.

Some of the earliest uses for satellite
communications were maritime uses.

So how do you communicate with a
vessel once it's gone over the horizon?

Satellites are really the
only way of doing that.

So traditionally, there's been a lot
of communications for shipping, as

an example, but those at the time
required very large antennas or dishes

to be stuck on top of a large boat,
so as if you can reduce the size

of the antenna, then you can get it
onto a truck or a smaller vehicle.

We're still talking about sort
of mobile things there, but...

so you've got new companies
entering into the market with...

so it creates competition, so the
cost of satellite communications

goes down and so it's not just for
emergency services anymore, it can be

used for businesses around the world.

Okay.

So Imagery, Connectivity, and
Communications and the other one we

briefly mentioned I wanted to talk about
is PNT, Position, Navigation and Timing,

which is not, my mum hasn't heard of that.

So what does...

That is GPS, so that's the, yeah, and
the spacey world calls it GNSS, which

is Global Navigation Satellite System.

The timing bit I'm interested in
this idea of sort of timing...

Well this takes you back to
your physics and your maths.

It's all about the time a signal takes
to get from the satellite to the ground.

So there's a clock on all the positioning
satellites and you're just working

out how much time passes between you
moving from one place to the next

and you triangulate that, so it's...

And this is particularly important
for financial services, which we'll

sort of come to in a moment but I
just wanted to get a bit of an idea

of like satellites, they're useful.

Yes.

All civilization is now
utterly dependent on...

And new ones are being added
all the time, that's the point.

It's not static, it's an evolving
infrastructure and new scientists will

look at the, you know, light spectrum
and say, actually, we haven't got

much on ultraviolet, let's see what
happens if we put a sensor up there.

That wouldn't work, by
the way, but you know.

Okay, I'm a company, where do you buy
data and services from if you're a

company and it's like, okay, I want to
tap into this great mine of information

and knowledge and how do I do that?

There's kind of a couple
of different routes.

So some of the things that we've,
been talking about in this programme

is, you know, what route is kind of
best for different types of use cases.

So you've got companies, space
suppliers who provide unrefined data.

So it's pretty raw data.

It's like the raw data or the raw images
and then that's for, you know, for sale

for a business to do what they want with
that and put their own analysis on top of

that, you might also have a space supplier
who kind of takes it a step further and

is able to provide more refined data.

So data that's perhaps been archived,
it's been processed, it's ready to be

analysed, or it might be overlaid with
a different type of data set and then

kind of on the far end, you've got
companies who provide more insights.

So, you know, they've already done
the analysis, they've already done the

kind of quantitative analysis, they've
analysed the data and they can provide,

you know, dashboards, narrative around
what the data is saying to help make

those business decisions so that the
company can really just take that

on and doesn't have to do any of the
analysis specifically themselves.

Okay, so yeah you can sort of,
yeah, a suite of different options

depending on what it is that you want
to do and presumably if you've got

your own analysts in your company,
they can do that or you can buy

that as a separate thing or use it.

That's a very important consideration
for companies that want to use remote

sensing or Earth Observation Data.

Do you have the geospatial analysts or
the mathematicians that can use that

data, or do you want to buy data that's
already been processed and already

has some analytics around it and then
just add your value to that data?

What we're finding is that, the large
satellite operators that produce data, are

tending to want to work through a market.

So they're companies, off the top
of my head, there happens to be

one in Harwell called Giacento.

They can serve up data from a
number of different satellite

operators, so that makes it much
easier to use, you don't have to

understand how to process the data.

Okay, so satellites are useful, you
can buy data in various different

forms depending on your needs.

Perhaps somebody could tell us a little
bit about why or how satellite imagery

is contributing to the UK sustainable
finance agenda because sustainability

is the other, the big thing that
I want to talk a little bit about.

I don't know, sustainability and
finance, those two things aren't

often perceived to go together.

We've been speaking to a lot of finance
companies, so you know, the banks, the

insurance companies, asset managers and
what surprised me was how interested

they are in understanding and supporting
the whole Environmental, Social and

Governance, the ESG agenda and sustainable
finance, they all see it as, you know,

an important driver for their development
in the future and what they need,

what the banks need and the insurance
companies is reliable evidence about

what's happening in the environment.

We mentioned earlier about sort of
forestry and changes, but they need

to know whether the organisations
they're giving loans to are

operating sustainably, you know,
are they going to be flooded out?

Or are they going to do
something that's going to impact

the environment around them?

This is the double materiality, I think
it's that, Joss was telling me about this!

Joss, tell us about, what's it called?

Double...?

Double materiality.

So it's essentially, it's often shown
with a very easy diagram of, if you have

kind of two sides to it, one of them is
your bank or your private institution

that they're funding or they're investing
in and then the environment being on

the other side and you've got an arrow
from the bank to the environment and

so that's the kind of outside impact
that the bank or what it's financing

is having on the environment and then
it's that outside in which is what the

climate is having an effect on the bank
or the assets that it's invested in.

So it's the direct release of emissions
or then the climatic effects i.

flooding, fires and then the damage
that will do and then kind of, you could

take those steps to mitigate, so you can
reduce your emissions or your climate

impacts, your environmental damage,
your biodiversity damage from one end

and then it's that protecting yourself.

I guess, yeah, mitigating any of those
risks, preparing yourself for the effects

that the climate will have on you.

And it is, you know, sustainable finance.

Is that something that's
driven by the consumer?

Is it a consumer saying, we want our
financial institutions to be much more

sustainable and ecologically aware?

Or are there financial incentives?

I always look at it from
actually three different lenses.

One of those is the last one
you mentioned, which is your

financial considerations.

So there's that obvious financial
risk and losing money over time,

especially with, you know, increase of
climate effects, you have supply chain

disruptions, so if you're reliant on
selling a certain thing or building a

certain thing and you can't gain as, I
mean there's a huge issue with the copper

supply chain at the minute, so if you're
building anything involving copper,

you're not going to be able to do that.

Well, there you go.

Well you're not going to be able to
build at the scale you maybe want to

because there's disruptions to that
supply chain, but there's also that

increasing of your long term value from
incorporation of sustainable practices.

It's often seen that those that have
more sustainable activities have that

protection of their long term value.

But you can, if you're more
sustainable, you can often get

increased access to capital.

So if you're demonstrating commitments
to sustainability, you've often

got lower financing costs, or you
have more access to funds, and then

you can tap into new markets, so
that's the financial considerations.

You've definitely got the reputational
drivers, which is those driven by

customers, clients, so a lot of financial
institutions have signed up to pledges,

whether that be, you know, the Paris
Agreement, one is to keep climate down

and then keep climate warming below two
degrees and a lot of customers are now

really interested in that, so if they
have a pension fund or they're investing

in something, or they're using a bank
for whatever needs they have, then they

want to say that institution is being
sustainably conscious, sustainably minded.

Then you have then the kind of
third one, which is regulation.

So I think from the discussions that
we're having as part of the Unlocking

Space for Business Programme, a lot
that's coming from the financial side,

probably, I mean, much more so than
the transport and logistics side, is

that need to not only meet regulation
themselves and there's a lot of regulatory

bodies and policymakers that are really
promoting sustainable finance through

kind of a huge range of initiatives.

Some of the popular ones is CSRD, which is
Corporate Sustaining Reporting Directive,

the TCFD, which is the Task Force on
Climate Related Financial Disclosures.

When you say regulation, are
you sort of saying that because

you have to do it because

its...

Because you have to do it, yeah and
some of them, I mean, some of them

initially started off as kind of voluntary
reporting and they're becoming more

mandatory for bigger organisations.

It might be those that employ over X
number of employees, but then also they

have to, for a financial institution,
you've got to protect yourself if

somebody that you're investing in
is disclosing on anything really,

a lot of that can be climate based.

You need to make sure that they're
being honest and that they're, what

they're reporting on is accurate
and you can use satellite data

to prove and track a lot of that.

That's a really good point.

I'd like to just build
on that point if I can.

Laura, perhaps you could give us some
examples of how satellite solutions

can help financial institutions and
Joss was sort of alluding to some

there, but maybe you could take
us through a few more examples.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, there's kind of the
obvious ones in terms of weather.

So, things around being able to understand
the risks from climate changes, the

risk from extreme weather, from natural
catastrophes and that sort of plays

into the risk decisions that financial
institutions make, particularly for

insurers, for example, as to whether they
want to insure certain assets based on the

position and potential impacts of weather,
it also kind of covers things like the

resilience monitoring of those assets.

So using satellite imagery to understand
what's happened in the past in particular

areas, how potentially assets could
be affected by changes in weather,

changes in kind of the environment
and the situation around them.

There's all of the emissions monitoring
and the kind of the regulatory framework

that lots of institutions have to
report into, as Joss mentioned and

then there's also a lot around nature
monitoring and biodiversity as well.

So can financial institutions actually
use earth observation data to identify

particular changes in the environment.

Again, it comes back to a lot of sort
of asset monitoring and insurance, but

you know, there's also the other angle
of being able to validate the public

commitments that they've made in terms of
their investments and I think it really

just plays back into the disclosures
that they have to make and the regulatory

framework that they're operating within.

That's amazing.

So basically if you have access to all
that information, you're just kind of

streets ahead of an organisation that
doesn't have access to that, I mean,

you know, having this crystal clear
window of the world almost in real time.

That's what they would like
to get to, as you can tell.

It's a very complex system with a lot of
moving parts that all affect each other.

You know, there's carbon
offsets, there's supply chain

vulnerability, they're all related.

For example, if, you think that most
of the material that gets shifted

around the world, the goods still come
in ships and you see what happened

in Suez, with the blocking of Suez
and that held up all the microchips.

Somebody needed to know that was
going to happen, you couldn't forecast

it, but you know, what has happened?

Where are my goods?

So the bank needs to know that their
loans are safe, the insurance company

needs to know where the goods are.

But there's also a climate
change aspect to that.

So the Panama, larger vessels aren't
able to go through that because the

lakes that feed the Panama Canal
are drying up to a certain extent.

It's amazing to be able to see that.

I mean, that's something you probably,
this is not common knowledge.

Climate change directly impacting
the supply chain and there are many

examples of that all over the place.

But there is a whole thing
about scarcity of raw materials

and finding out where those...

Well where stuff is and you know,
if you're mining copper for example,

you're digging up huge areas of land...

And not in your own country.

So you've got to know what's happening
in China or Africa or South America and

satellite's really the only way that you
can actually observe what's happening

in places you can't get to very easily.

I think especially for the raw materials
and mining industry that a lot of

these are in, as Sean mentioned,
very remote areas and they've

always had historical issues with...

Well it's, and it's getting, it seems
to be getting increasingly more and more

political as well as we're searching
for rare earth metals in different

places that traditionally we don't
mine and that's presumably going to

rely on a lot of satellite information.

Exactly.

If you found that, shall we say there's
a rare earth that's needed for batteries

or whatever it is and so your whole
economy is going to be reliant on that

and then you notice that a lot of these
rare earth deposits are being acquired by

one country, you can then work out that
there's probably a policy that they've

got to corner the market in something.

Now, satellites will enable you
to see what's going on there,

which you would find it very
difficult to do on the ground.

Yeah.

One thing about satellite data in general
is it often seems to be a lot more

trustworthy because you can get it in
near real time, depending on the source

that you're purchasing this data from.

Global, so you can see a lot of it,
it's a lot more over, but it's coming

directly from the source, which is the
satellite and the images that you're

given and you know, you could talk
about looking forward and deep fakes of

satellite imagery and the use of AI as...

you know, anticipated to become
more of a problem, but...

That's another...

That is a whole separate
kind of kettle of fish.

But you do, you are just getting
these raw unbiased images from remote

areas where traditionally you might
have to send somebody out there.

They don't have a whole view or the
site may be able to prepare if they know

these people are coming and you know,
I don't want to allude that things are

happening, but there's always options
that things can get hidden or, you

know, pushed to a side because they
know somebody's coming out and you're

then also getting what a viewpoint
at that moment in time that somebody

is on site taking that measurement.

So satellites just give you that kind
of wider spread, that trustworthy

source, which is so important.

The real power is when you put
satellite imagery and data, not just

the imagery, but data coming from the
satellites, with other data sources.

So digital terrain models or you know,
who owns what building or all the

financial or social aspects of an area.

If you're concerned about ESG
and you're concerned about forced

labour, working in minds or something
like that, Environmental, Social

and Governance that companies
are having to report on nowadays.

But it's layering different types of
data from different sources makes the

insights that much greater and makes
you help make better decisions, really.

Just going back to the Space for Business
initiative, you've given us a really

wonderful kind of overview of just the
power and the influence of satellite data.

Laura, what are the barriers to realizing
the potential benefits from satellite

derived data, if you're a company,
like what's stopping people from...

There's a couple of different
barriers and Jocelyn mentioned some

work that we did before we actually
set this programme up and that was

to look at what those barriers are.

I think there's barriers both on the
end user side, so for businesses, but

also on like the supply side as well.

I think for businesses,
there's the awareness piece.

It's understanding exactly what's
out there and maybe not knowing that

satellite data could be a potential
solution or could be combined

with existing terrestrial data.

I think there's also a big challenge
around the persuasiveness of the ROI.

So, you know, there's this idea that
perhaps is starting to be challenged

a bit more, which is satellite data is
really expensive, really difficult to

understand how you can potentially use it
because it's just, it's so inaccessible,

it's so expensive and that kind of plays
into the idea that it must be really

inaccessible and really difficult to use
or difficult to interpret and I think

that's kind of combined with Challenges
on the supply side as well and when we did

this piece of work to understand what the
problems were, we recognised that there

were issues around suppliers not quite
understanding what the specific issues

were for customers or for end users.

So people who actually want to use
satellite data and maybe also there's a

degree of kind of siloing as well, where
perhaps products were being sold or in

particular silos, but there could be a
wider market for selling satellite data.

So it's kind of a variety of different
issues I'd say, all kind of coupled

together and really what we're trying to
do is tackle a lot of those issues, so for

both the end users and the supply side.

Okay, we've looked a little bit
about sort of financial services and

about how they might, use satellite
data and we sort of touched a little

bit on transport and logistics.

I'm just interested thinking about
the future and in your opinion,

what's the biggest change that
you've seen in satellite data and

services over the past few years?

Like what's been the real
kind of game changer?

Well, I'll take that one and it really
is this concept of new space, but

space is being commercialised, in that
services reflect the needs of the end

users or the companies and the services
are being broadened out to be available

to not just the huge companies, but
to lots of smaller companies and more

companies along a supply chain, whereas
traditionally it was the government or

the military or the science bit that...

Do small companies still think, I
mean we talked about this earlier,

do they still think, oh space,
I'm too small to bother with this.

They already use space, not
necessarily knowing they're using it.

We've already mentioned about GPS.

So GPS or Google Maps or, you know,
there are other maps available or

you know, even with their mobile
phone, the backhaul, so the bit

that's carrying data might be
coming through, satellites as well.

The point being is so they're
using it, but they don't

necessarily know they're using it.

What we're trying to say is there
is more to it than just what you're

using at the moment and that would
be, you know, information about one

of the biggest things for transport
and logistics would be, horrible

term, but situational awareness.

So it's knowing where things are,
where your assets are, where the

container is, where the ship is.

So it's actually tracking
stuff in real time.

Tracking and understanding the condition
of those things that, you know, you're

bringing in bananas from around the
world and you want to know are they

going to arrive in good condition or
not and also, actually related back

to the ESG aspects, how much fuel is
being used to bring your bananas in?

Because the company you're
supplying is going to be saying,

how much fuel did you use?

You know and you've got to reduce that
over the next five years and they've

got to all bring all this information
together, it's very difficult.

But it's also going to make businesses
much more competitive as well,

the fact that they'll have all
this information about things like

fuel and where things are going.

It's like, oh, we could have a much better
route perhaps rather than going this way,

we could go that way, which is shorter.

And I think you're going to find new
companies springing up that are providing

these additional services, as long as
they can do it cost effectively and

particularly if they're using AI, because
what we're talking about, satellite data

is huge volumes of it and there aren't
enough people to resolve the data issues,

so AI might be able to help there.

The fab thing about AI is obviously
the natural, if we've got millions of

images, if you use a naked eye, you're
not going to be able to process that

at pace and to the level that you need.

But you also can see things in the data
that are impossible to be seen with...

That's really good point!

...the naked eye.

So you're gaining a whole, we're
gaining new insights through new types

of sensors and we've got you know,
hyperspectral sensors now that show you

a huge range of bands, spectral bands.

But using AI, you're then just
increasing the level of insights

you can get into the data.

So the things you can learn and
the options that become open to

you as an organisation are huge and
forever growing and I think we don't

really know the capabilities yet.

It's really mind blowing just how
deep we can look now into data

is, you know, AI is going to...

We've already mentioned about the
archive data, you know, these satellites

have been around for decades, some
of them, that data is still there.

Most of it has not been
looked at by a human being.

So, if you could then go through the
archives of all of these thousand

satellites, and then start, you know
pulling out information from that using,

let's not call it AI, let's call it an
automated non manual process somehow.

Catchy!

But if you can somehow, make use
of that archive data that's going

back decades and look at maybe
environmental change over every year.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's amazing.

Going back to your original question of
what's the kind of greatest changes over

the last few years, I know Sean kind of
mentioned this commercial aspect of it

and there's a building on the AI point,
it is just that general technological

development and the speed that we've seen
over the last few years and if you're

looking at a lot of the satellites that
are being launched now, I kind of, I

mean, you can't, see it, but almost 30
centimeters by 30 centimeters in size

and these kind of CubeSats or NanoSats
as they call them are so much cheaper to

build, you can build them in a matter of
months, whereas a traditional satellite

might take in 10 years and cost you half
a billion dollars, you can now do it

for less than a million dollars and...

That is amazing.

...get it up at much less of cost.

So that accessibility is, it's
huge and you know, you add on 3D

printing and recreating these tiny
satellites, one falls out, one

breaks, just send another one.

Just send up another one or make
one in space, make one up there.

Yeah, no, potentially, yeah.

Almost flat pack satellites.

Just finally we should move on and
just talk a little bit about what

the UK Space Agency support is.

So we've got all this wonderful
stuff that we've been talking about.

So Laura, maybe you could just talk
us through a little bit of the, what

kind of support the UK Space Agency
offers businesses so they can make use

of some of this amazing technology.

So it's a real variety
of different things.

We've been running networking events,
first of all, to try and bring together

end user businesses, the supply
side and really try and understand

what the potential problems are the
businesses are grappling with and

what the potential use cases could be
and how they can use satellite data.

We've also been running exploration
workshops, so these are trying to

sort of deep dive into the particular
challenges that a business is facing,

looking at what those issues might
be, how they could use satellite data.

So basically, a business would come
to you and say, this is kind of

what we do, how can you help us?

And then somebody from the UK Space
Agency could come and say yes, we can

do that, we can do that, we can do that.

Yeah, it's like an exploration
of the potential opportunities.

So the different options
that are out there.

So we've been working with PWC, working
with the Satellite Applications Catapult

and using their expertise to really try
and unpick what that particular business

is, struggling with, or, you know, the
opportunities that they think they might

want to explore and looking at what
those options are for using satellite

data, you know, combined with existing
terrestrial data and supporting them

really just to understand the kind of the
supplier ecosystem a bit better as well.

And give us, give me an idea
of just how well it's doing.

Lots of companies getting involved
and coming and has take up been good?

Are you sort of happy with
where it's going or do you need

to get the message out more?

I'd like to say we're really happy with
what we've found so far and the number

of people we've got involved, we've had
some really successful networking events

over the last couple of weeks, but you
know, we're always interested in hearing

from new organisations, new businesses
who think they might want to understand

a bit more about those opportunities,
you know, suppliers who are interested in

understanding how to reach businesses,
how to really understand what the kind

of the problems are that they're facing.

So definitely, you know, the programme's
got another while to run, up until

next year so really interested
in finding out more and hearing

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