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The Moment explores the pivotal moments that changed the lives and careers of the world’s leading CEOs and defined their leadership journeys.
Claire Blake (00:04):
From World 50, this is The Moment where we explore the pivotal moments that changed the lives and careers of the world's leading CEOs and defined their leadership journeys. I'm your host, Claire Blake, and today we are talking to Wanda Austin, lead director at Chevron on the board of Amgen and former CEO of The Aerospace Corporation.
Wanda Austin (00:26):
And he says, "No, no, no, no. You don't understand. This is really important what just happened here. It's really significant."
Claire Blake (00:34):
Currently the lead director at a Fortune 10 company, Wanda Austin spent 37 years at The Aerospace Corporation, a federally funded R&D center that serves as a trusted advisor on complex space problems. Wanda reveals how a simple phrase in a quick hallway conversation catapulted her into the corner office.
(00:53):
We're going to ask you just some silly questions just to break the ice, okay?
Wanda Austin (00:59):
Okay.
Claire Blake (01:00):
Which one do I want to start with? Okay. If you were an astronaut, what would be your go- to space snack?
Wanda Austin (01:07):
Twizzlers.
Claire Blake (01:08):
What's your favorite space themed movie or TV show?
Wanda Austin (01:11):
Probably I have to say Star Wars for movie. And you probably don't think of it as space, but I love Big Bang.
Claire Blake (01:19):
You love Big Bang. Oh, that's good. That's good. What's your go- to Girl Scout cookie?
Wanda Austin (01:25):
Thin Mints. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You can put them in the freezer, you can have them all year long.
Claire Blake (01:30):
Tell us a little bit about Wanda growing up.
Wanda Austin (01:34):
So the first thing I would say is I was a Girl Scout. And so I sold enough cookies to win a trip to Florida and to have a speaking part in a major citywide activity. And so it was my first stage from a leadership perspective of having to organize and get things done and present the results and stand up in front of throngs of people and not be spazzed out about it. So it was a great learning platform for me and confidence builder. The other thing is I just went to my high school's 85th anniversary in New York City.
Claire Blake (02:11):
Oh my goodness.
Wanda Austin (02:13):
So it's all the old pictures. And they gave me the Atom Award, which is an inaugural award for having an impact in my professional life. But when I talked to them, I talked about the fact that I had to take three public buses to get to school every day. And so that teaches you a lot about self-reliance and independence and learning how to navigate what could be difficult situations in the city. But it also enabled me to wear my first lab coat and to get drafting classes and to have people talk to you about science and math like they actually expect that you're going to be very successful. So I think those kinds of experiences were really foundational for me.
Claire Blake (03:02):
Did you always want to be a scientist or an engineer when you grew up?
Wanda Austin (03:06):
I can't say that I always wanted to be a scientist, but the fact that you have an experience that tells you it's normal for you to wear a lab coat as opposed to, oh my god, it's a girl in a lab coat. So I think it's being surrounded by people that send you subliminal messages like you're okay being a scientist if that's what you choose to be, and you've got all the skills and requisite experience to go off and pursue that.
Claire Blake (03:35):
I do want to give you an opportunity to share with me a little bit more about your parents in this scenario. I'm assuming that there was some kind of influence there.
Wanda Austin (03:44):
So Claire, you got to think about, do the math. This is in the '60s and think about what's going on in the world. And for African-American kids, certainly you have the speeches by Martin Luther King. I want my kids to be judged on the content of their character, but that was not what people were experiencing. My father never went to high school. And so he was adamant that you can screw up on most anything and get forgiven, but you could not screw up on school. My mother was right there with him and she was the one that was getting us down to Rockefeller Plaza and taking us to Broadway and doing all these things so that you saw something other than what was in your neighborhood. But it was a very clear message about education is something that someone cannot take from you.
Claire Blake (04:30):
And something I'm sure has stuck with you when I think about where you progressed from there, college, master's, PhD. It was something that you clearly took to heart in a variety of ways.
Wanda Austin (04:40):
Sometimes someone would say, "Gee, this is really hard, but you don't seem to be upset about it or worried about." I said, "Hey, look, I grew up in New York. This is a piece of cake. It's going to have to get a lot uglier than this before you see me sweat."
Claire Blake (04:54):
You made a comment about subliminal messages. This podcast is all about pinpointing a moment that defined you both as a leader and a person. And I think when we spoke a little bit, this for you was a subliminal moment and a subliminal message that came your way. And we're talking a little bit about a role that you took. I do want for you to level set for a little bit your background prior to this moment at Aerospace Corporation. I mean, how many years? Tell us a little bit. I mean, you spent 37 years at one company, which almost seems unheard of.
Wanda Austin (05:26):
So I go to The Aerospace Corporation. I see that there are other women in technical roles. I hear messages from the president that says, "We want you to be successful. We've got open policy about moving people around." And so as I look back at my career, I changed jobs. I stayed with the same company for 37 years, but I changed jobs almost every three years. But my approach was head down, do a good job where you are. And those other opportunities will present themselves. But the thing that you've got to do is prepare, prepare, prepare. My dad used to say that all the time, "Prepare so when the door opens, you've got everything you need to walk through." And each assignment taught me different things, taught me a different part of the business, helped me develop a different set of skills, helped me to work with different people in the company, gave me the opportunity to have some visibility with our customers.
(06:22):
And so it was an accumulation of experiences that enabled me to compete successfully for a general manager position. This was a position where, no kidding, you're responsible for delivering a chunk of the business for a particular customer. I was all prepared to roll up my sleeves, lock arms with my customer, make sure we delivered our piece successfully, and was thrilled to have the opportunity. And after the announcement came out, one of my colleagues passing me in the hallway, just a coincidental meeting, stopped me and said, "Hey, I just wanted to congratulate you." And so I was trying to be gracious and talk about how I'm looking forward to the job and this and this great. And he says, "No, no, no, no, you don't understand. This is really important what just happened here. It's really significant." And so I asked him, "I don't understand. What do you mean?"
(07:13):
And he says, "Every person that's ever been in that job has gone on to become a corporate officer." This was a novel thought for me because it had not even dawned on me. I mean, I wasn't in the new job yet, so I certainly wasn't thinking about what would come next, but he turned the light on and it was like, oh my gosh, he's right. I went back to my office, pulled up the old org charts and looked at the people who'd been in the job before me and looked to see where they all had ended up. And he was absolutely correct that this is what then was referred to as a kingmaker job.
Claire Blake (07:51):
Wow.
Wanda Austin (07:52):
There's some jobs that you take and they lead into a dead end and there are some jobs that you take and if you're successful, they catapult you into a whole different class of opportunities. So it was one of those aha moments where at first you don't even understand the significance of what he was saying, but then you go back and reflect on it and you do a little homework and you see, oh my gosh, somebody somewhere is thinking maybe this is someone who can take on a bigger role at the company.
Claire Blake (08:32):
When I think about your background, I had assumed that you could have naturally as an engineer and mathematician, you think about the calculus of your career, but this caught you by surprise in terms of the calculus that this could lead to something much bigger. Why do you think that was?
Wanda Austin (08:48):
I think it was because in each of the successive roles that I had, someone would say, "Hey, we've got another opportunity, another assignment for you. Would you be interested in doing X? Would you be willing to join this group?" And you met great people, you had a good experience, you learned about the business, a different side of the business, and that was all plus, plus, plus for me. That was all absolutely a bonus. And I wasn't thinking about the job after next. And now when I talk to people, I tell them, "You need to think about what do you think? Don't worry about the job that you're considering today. What's the job after that that you think you'd like to aim for? Because you might make a different decision on where to go right now if you know what your ultimate goal was." I didn't have that perspective, Claire.
Claire Blake (09:42):
You made the comment that it indicated to you someone somewhere saw something. You did find that out. Yes?
Wanda Austin (09:50):
Yeah. Yeah. So earlier in my career, probably in the early 80s, I went to a cocktail party and had a chance to have a chance meeting with the then president of The Aerospace Corporation who said to me, "You need to go back to school and get your PhD." And I literally laughed out loud. "Are you kidding? I have two kids, a husband. I mean, I barely want to go to a PTA meeting, let alone to go back and-"
(10:17):
So he saw it. And I recognize now in hindsight that there were senior leaders who were always looking to say, "Who is someone that we think has a shot at being able to take on a bigger role and making the decisions to say, maybe we need to go in a different direction." I remember one case where a boss that I had, this is after I'd gotten my PhD, I came back and I was working for Al having a great time on an exciting program. And he came to my office one day and he says, "Oh, there's a job opening over in what was then called Millstar. You should go apply for that job." And I was like, "Oh, well, thanks, Al. That's really interesting, but no, I'm happy. I'm good. I'm good. I got everything I need right here. I'm good." And two weeks went by and he came back by my office says, "Did you apply for that job?"
(11:08):
And I said, "Oh no, no, no, really, I'm okay." And he says, "No, no, you need to go and apply for that job." So I went on the interview. I literally told the interviewing manager, "I came because Al asked me to, but I'm not thinking that this is the right assignment for me and I'm happy where I'm at." In the interview, doing all the things that you would tell someone, "No, no, no, you don't do that in an interview. You go in and put your best foot forward, tell them it's really what you want." Because I knew that how hard the program was and I knew that they were in a difficult position. They were getting canceled every other year. And I'm thinking, "I got a great spot." So I left that interview and he selected me for the job.
Claire Blake (11:47):
Wow.
Wanda Austin (11:49):
But as it turned out, that job was in the organization that I ultimately became the general manager for. So it was really critical that I had actually been in that organization, understood the customer, I didn't see the importance of being able to say, "I've worked in that organization and I know."
Claire Blake (12:09):
I do want to ask you, the fact that you thought and the words are kingmaker, I think are going through my mind. I mean, did you go home and tell your husband that night?
Wanda Austin (12:19):
I did go back and talk to him about I did not realize that being selected for this job had broader implications, implications that were obvious to other people in the company, but it just was not apparent to me. And what it caused me to do was to really think about what are you going to do with this opportunity?
Claire Blake (12:41):
I love that intentionality. I mean, so walk us through very practically, what did you start doing differently the next day? Really, you wake up the next morning, what's the mentality? What becomes different for you?
Wanda Austin (12:53):
So the big change is it was like someone gave me a new pair of glasses and suddenly I could see beyond my own organizational responsibilities and I could see the connective tissue to the rest of the organization, to the rest of the customer organization and to national security space at large because again, this was all of the military satellite communications programs. It impacted everyone everywhere all the time. It was the systems that the White House uses for critical messages. It's our weapons systems use these communications channels. Our military are all dependent on it. If someone's out in the middle of nowhere trying to get a message out, our systems have to work. And so suddenly I'm paying more attention to what's happening in the engineering organization. Do we have the right people thinking about what's the next best technology that we need to have? So suddenly it's not just about deliver the program that's in front of you and make sure you hit your milestones.
(14:01):
It's look up across the entire organization, say, "Who else do we need to partner with? How do we partner outside of our own company? Are there other FFRDCs?" So it just really changed my perspective for the whole business.
Claire Blake (14:17):
Are there any other moments that this moment kind of truly defined for you when you think back sitting in your seat now versus the, I mean, how many years ago was this 20 years ago kind of moment? I mean, are there other markers to who you are as a person or things that have happened that this moment is tied to?
Wanda Austin (14:36):
So that's a great question. And if I was sitting with my psychiatrist, I could lay on the couch and probably go backwards and understand, aha, that's what that was all about. But I would say in many subsequent instances, you start to understand that there are people around the table with you who could be selected for a given opportunity. And for whatever reason, the powers that be say, "We want you to take the baton and run with it because we have confidence that you'll take us to a good place." Sometimes it's difficult to see yourself in that role. Sometimes you can easily see a colleague and say, "Oh, I can understand why Steve would get selected. Oh, I can understand why Bob would get selected." I think one of the conversations I had to have with myself was, "Oh, I can see why Wanda would get selected.
(15:34):
I can see how Wanda would do it differently, not necessarily perfectly, but would do it differently and would take a different approach to get to the right outcome." And I think for many of us, there's always the little whisperer on your shoulder that says, "Oh, I can see how everybody else could do that job." And we tend to not hear the little voice on the other shoulder that says, "Yeah, but you could do it also. You'd do it differently, but you would also do it well."
Claire Blake (16:06):
I'm thinking about your moment here where somebody tapped on the glass and said, "Look up, look around." When you think about the opportunity, and it may be a succession level candidate, it may be your children, your grandchildren, when you're sending those messages to people now, telling them to look up and look around, are you doing that directly? Are you doing that subliminally?
Wanda Austin (16:27):
So the answer is all of the above because at different stages you need different answers. I'll start with my granddaughter as the simplest example. Last summer, we took the grandkids to a concert at the Disney Hall and the eight-year-old comes home and tells her mom, "I think I want to play the violin." And her mom laughs and says, "Oh, that's really cute, honey. That's great." And I said, "No, no, no, no. You don't understand. You need to go get a violin. You need to go get violin lessons. Grandma and grandpa pay for it, but if she is interested, we are all in." So a year later, she's playing the violin. And no one could have predicted that, but she's playing the violin. So it's really important when someone says, "I think I have an interest. I think I might have a talent. I think I might want to explore that" to make sure that you remove those barriers.
(17:13):
With people, sometimes it's, "I think you need to get some help on public speaking. Here's some suggestions on what you might do. I think we need to work on your interpersonal skills, your EQ, the way that you connect with people, you're willing to show compassion, you're willing to show empathy," having those conversations. And sometimes it really is, "We need you to step into a new role and here's how we're going to help you to be successful." I'll tell you another quick story, which was one of those moments where, again, what you say matters. We were working on a project, we're up against the stops on a deadline and we had a key member of the team whose father was dying and he was debating about whether to go be with his father or to stay on the job. And someone in his chain told me, "Joe's dealing with this, but we need him on the team." And I called him and I said, "You only have one father.
(18:09):
You're his son. You've got to be there. We will figure out how to get through the project, but you will never forgive yourself if something happens and you don't go home." And he went home. I bumped into him at an airport two years later. I was standing in line and he came up to me and he says, "I'm so grateful that you called me." He says, "Because I would never have made the decision to go if you hadn't given me permission." And so as a leader, you have to think about what you're telling people about what their values are. It's one thing to say, "Oh, we support you. We want to help you with your family unless we need you at work, unless we have a big important project, then we don't care about your family." And so leaders have to be thoughtful about are you walking the talk?
Claire Blake (18:54):
We just talked about your role as GM, but obviously it ultimately culminated at Aerospace as CEO. We talked about all the board seats that you sit on now, currently the lead director of a Fortune 10 company. Why do you think this moment stands out more than any others? Why was this so impactful for you when you think about the grand scheme of all the things that you did?
Wanda Austin (19:15):
It was very impactful for me because it was a direct message to me that says, "You have an opportunity to make a difference." You can just sort of sail through life and just do an okay job and not get into trouble, or you can grab the reins here and really steer the ship. It is about how you show up. It is about what your line of sight is. Is it just to the borders of what I think I've carved out that I'm actually responsible for? Or do I think I have a voice in a bigger room that can say, "I think we need to make a strategic turn. I think we need to think about the future. I think that we're missing an opportunity to anticipate what we're going to need." And that's harder because again, you don't know how it's going to turn out and you don't know what stumbling blocks are going to be along that path that you've chosen.
(20:11):
But ultimately it turns out you're accountable either way. So why not figure out what is the vision that you want to achieve and then go after it as hard and as fast as you can.
Claire Blake (20:24):
I love that.
Wanda Austin (20:25):
In that there's some risk for sure. But it turns out there's risk in doing nothing.
Claire Blake (20:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Wanda Austin (20:32):
So why not push for the outcome that you want? And so that moment for me was the no kidding, someone tapping on my shoulder and me looking up and saying, "Oh my God, I didn't see that." I didn't realize that there was a whole sky up there and that I really could change the nature of what are the things that we're putting up in the sky. And it's not just about making sure that this widget today works. It's really about having an influence about what's going to be out there 10 years from now, 15 years from now.
Claire Blake (21:02):
Is it safe to say that you wouldn't be where you are today without that seemingly offhand comment from a colleague that day?
Wanda Austin (21:09):
I think that my journey would've been different. I would have been someone who was viewed as doing the job that's put in front of them, executor, functional, no problem, but not visionary, not strategic leader.
Claire Blake (21:30):
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