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As a small business owner, you need to be a lot of things to make your business go—but you don't have to be a marketer alone. Join host Dave Charest, Director of Small Business Success at Constant Contact, and Kelsi Carter, Brand Production Coordinator, as they explore what it really takes to market your business. Even if marketing's not your thing! You'll hear from small business leaders just like you along with industry experts as they share their stories, challenges, and best advice to get real results. This is the 2x Webby Award Honoree Be A Marketer podcast! New episodes coming in July!
On today's episode, you'll hear from a broker that practices short term memory loss. This is the Be a Marketer podcast, real estate edition.
Dave Charest:My name is Dave Charest, director of small business success at Constant Contact, and I help small business owners like you make sense of online marketing. And on this podcast, we'll explore what it really takes to market your business even if marketing's not your thing. No jargon, no hype, just real stories to inspire you and practical advice you can act on. So remember, friend, you can be a marketer. And at Constant Contact, we're here to help.
Dave Charest:Well, hello, friend, and thanks for joining us for another episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. This is the fourth in our series of episodes dedicated to the real estate industry, and that means, yes, two things are about to happen. One, we're gonna say hello to Kelsi Carter. Hello, Kelsi.
Stephanie Alfonso:Hello, Dave.
Dave Charest:And we're also gonna say hello to Stephanie Alfonso. Hi, Steph.
Stephanie Alfonso:Hello. Hey, guys. I'm back. I'm back.
Dave Charest:So great to see both of you this morning. We've got a real estate edition. Kelsey, what can you tell us about our guest today?
Kelsi Carter:I thought you'd never ask. So today's guest is Ian s Hoover, the founder and broker of record for Deacon Hoover Real Estate Advisors. Now, Steph, is there anything that you kinda wanna get into with Ian? I know that you actually know him prior.
Stephanie Alfonso:Yeah. Yeah. So I've known Ian for many years, an awesome independent broker over in the Pittsburgh area. So Ian is just funny. He's great.
Stephanie Alfonso:He's got a lot to say. He's got a podcast of his own, and I think we're going to learn a lot from him today.
Dave Charest:I'm excited to get to the conversation. But before we do, I think for the Luddites like Kelsey and myself here in the real estate industry, I think you need to do a little cleaning up or clearing up here for us, Steph. So I've got a couple of questions for you. Help me understand. So, you know, real estate, I know I work with an agent, and I go buy a house or sell a house, whatever the case may be.
Dave Charest:But what does it mean to have a brokerage? Like, what is a brokerage?
Stephanie Alfonso:Yeah. So a brokerage really is a real estate company, right, where agents work under a licensed broker. The broker oversees transactions, ensures legal compliance, provides support for the agents. Right? The agents handle the clients, but the brokerage provides the structure, the tools, and the credibility to make it all work.
Dave Charest:Excellent. So as an agent, why do I need a brokerage?
Stephanie Alfonso:Yeah. So the way the kind of hierarchy, I guess, you would say in real estate works is in order for an agent to practice, they need to hang their license underneath a brokerage or underneath a broker. Right? So an agent is definitely focused on building relationships with buyers and sellers, whereas a broker is also doing that, but their primary focus is building relationships and growing agents.
Dave Charest:Got it. Got it. Got it. So if we think about just marketing then in general for a broker owner like Ian, how is that different when we start thinking about what we're doing there?
Stephanie Alfonso:So when you think about agents actually focusing on buyers and sellers and brokers really focusing on agents. When it comes to marketing, right, recruiting and retention is also a big focus for brokerages as well. So brokers are focusing on building the brand of the office, building the brand of the brokerage, Whereas agents are more focused on, yes, the brand of the brokerage as well, but more so branding themselves as individuals. So when we think about it, brokers have to focus on so many things in order to recruit and retain good talent. So they're focusing on what kind of tools are they gonna provide, what kind of training, what kind of coaching.
Stephanie Alfonso:So there's just a lot of things that go into it. And then, of course, you've got when I say that Ian is an independent broker, he's not part of a big box franchise, like a REMAX or a Coldwell Banker. You know, he is Deacon and Hoover. He's got a business partner. They started their own brokerage.
Stephanie Alfonso:They've got 60 agents, and that's it. There's only one Deacon and Hoover real estate advisors. Mhmm. For now. For now.
Dave Charest:Yeah. For now. Right? Exactly. Right?
Dave Charest:So one of the things I found interesting about our conversation is really, you know, how locked in Ian is on the type of agent that he's looking attract to the brokerage. Namely, he wants to create high producers, not necessarily attract those people as they're already at the kind of top of their game. And this was a really interesting conversation. I thought that was actually a pretty cool dissection of, like, how he's thinking about how he's building his brokerage as well.
Stephanie Alfonso:It's also different. Right? As you'll find, it's also different from a lot of what we hear in the type of agent that he's trying to attract.
Dave Charest:Yeah. In addition to some of that that we'll learn obviously through this conversation, you know, Ian talked about the awkward moment that really led to him opening his own brokerage, which was a really fun conversation. He talks about what his mom taught him about positivity to overcome obstacles to burn his way and what he learned about determination really early in life. And so like many entrepreneurs, Ian got started with his own thing after being let go from his previous role.
Stephanie Alfonso:Very interesting.
Dave Charest:Let's go to Ian.
Ian Hoover:I was fired from my, career in retail, and I had already had my real estate license and was already focusing on it anyways. I was on my partner now's team at the time. So I was just the team member for him and, quickly became, you know, obviously the top producer on the team and did really well there started getting my broker's license and then him and I always had a plan to open our own brokerage. And then once I got my broker's license, like let's do this. He kind of was like, you know what?
Ian Hoover:I'm getting a little old and maybe we'll just do a joint team together. And that didn't line up with what I wanted to do. So I made the tough decision to, accept a position with a different company and start building and developing their commercial department. And then fast forward, like six months later, I was, I was still on the, invite list to Alex's daughter's wedding, my partner's daughter's wedding. And I really did not want to go.
Ian Hoover:It was out of town. I'm like, it's going to be awkward. I don't work with them anymore. So unfortunately for me, I was talked into going still. Cause we had a weekend without the kids and, I was just, yeah, we're going.
Ian Hoover:And I was like, okay. And I did what I did in a lot of awkward situations where I maybe, had a few too many drinks that night. And a couple of days later I get a call from Alex and he's like, hey, did you mean what you said at the wedding? And I was like, what the hell did I say at the wedding? Yeah.
Ian Hoover:He was like, oh, that we still might open the brokerage together someday. And I was like, yeah, maybe someday. I was actually really happy with what I was doing. And he's like, what better day than now? Right?
Ian Hoover:So we met out of respect. I was like, you know, I wouldn't be where I'm at without him. I sat down. I went over my list of demands. He agreed to everything.
Ian Hoover:And I was like, oh, I guess we're opening a real estate brokerage. In 2017, we opened it up and then it's been a wild ride.
Stephanie Alfonso:That's cool. I never knew that story. That's awesome. I did not know that that's how you guys really kinda sealed the deal.
Ian Hoover:It's always alcohol, Steph. It's always alcohol with me.
Stephanie Alfonso:Man. Man. That that truth serum. Right? Getting deals
Dave Charest:How you make dreams come true. Back.
Stephanie Alfonso:Getting deals done. That's pretty hysterical. You know? Well, hey. Sometimes that truth serum gets you to, open up a little bit, and I certainly am glad you did.
Stephanie Alfonso:That's for sure. So I wanna find out a little bit more about you and just, of course, like I said, I just finished reading your book. So it makes me think of a lot of questions and I was like, man, you know, I feel like I know Ian so much more, but, you know, you were raised by a single mom
Ian Hoover:Yep.
Stephanie Alfonso:Who is disabled. And I really think that a lot of times, especially now with doing the podcast and everything and just getting to hear where people came from, oftentimes it is out of challenging situations. A lot of times the entrepreneurial spirit really comes from grit and things that should hold us back, but business owners tend to have that strength. So I'd love to hear just what that was like. Like, how did that instill in you as a business owner, and how did that drive you to get to where you are now?
Ian Hoover:Well, I mean, my mom has had a huge influence on my life. You know, she did try really hard to work and everything as much as she really could, but she definitely worked when it came to, you know, just keeping us fed and growing. I mean, two just really hungry teenage boys. We ate her out of the house. I mean, I always say that she knows how to cook potatoes 150 different ways.
Ian Hoover:Cause we were poor and that was the only thing that was cheap. But she was, she's really a great mother and now she's fantastic grandmother. And she taught me a lot. One of the things she always taught me is anytime anything bad happened, you know, think of the positive out of it. Right.
Ian Hoover:There's always some positive or always some bright side to take out of it. Even if it's like, oh my God, that was horrible. But I learned from it. Right. Like if you stay positive, it's going to get you through the bad stuff so much better.
Ian Hoover:And that's really what she taught me at an early age. The other big thing she was is you want to go into a field where you're always going to have opportunities, right? So she's like, go into medical or sales. Those are the two fields you should go. And I don't know why she chose medical.
Ian Hoover:That would not be for me at all. I'm not big with blood and yeah, no, just not for me. So I decided to go into sales and I got my first job at best buy when I was 16 years old, but I wasn't getting called back from best buy and I applied and didn't get a call back and I wanted it so bad. I just started filling out the application every single day. And it was one of those applications where you have to answer the, twenty minutes long of, I forget what they even are like disc assessment questions.
Ian Hoover:Like what would you do in this situation and that situation? So each time I applied was twenty, thirty minutes and I did it about 17 times in a week. And then I got a call on that following Monday, bringing me in for an interview. And then the lady who called me was like, Hey, could you do me a favor though? Like, can you stop applying now that we're giving you an interview?
Ian Hoover:And, that was a really good moment in my life. Cause I kind of realized that if I just have this determination and this passion and energy that, you know, I might get told no the first sixteen times, but that seventeenth time I'm going to get, get a yes or at least a maybe, right. At least a conversation. And that's really how my life's gone. I just, every time I try something new, I make sure that I try as hard as I can and work as hard as I can.
Ian Hoover:And I got so many stories of just random times where I probably should have maybe even been fired and it just worked out to where, it got me even further along down the road. Right. Because my, determination and passion for what I do is really what drives me. And when you talk about the book, that's really one of my takeaways from the book for people is, like, if you get anything from my book, I hope it's that you can legit use your sales ability. And we all have a sales ability, whether you know it or not to get further down the road.
Ian Hoover:Right. If you want that promotion, if you want that job, be the squeaky wheel, you know, make sure you're there and you're showing whoever you gotta show how important you are. And eventually, it'll work out for you. Even if it's not that opportunity, it might open a door for another one.
Stephanie Alfonso:Yeah. I definitely got that from the book and, you know, just having having a relentless pursuit for yourself. Right? And it's funny because people say to me all the time, because I have a history a background in sales. Oh, are you in sales this or, you know, are you still in sales?
Stephanie Alfonso:And, you know, I really look at it as like we're all in sales. No matter what if you're in business, you're in sales. And whether you're selling yourself, whether you're selling a product, whether you are selling internally. I mean, you're always in sales and I feel like your book definitely gave us an insight as to you truly having a sell of yourself and really believing in yourself. And that's awesome that you give so much of that credit to your mom.
Stephanie Alfonso:Obviously, her believing in you and driving that. And the other common theme that I see with other successful people in business is oftentimes we don't fit into the mold of other companies. Right? Like, I hear hear it all the time, like, well, I got fired from this company, and I really didn't like doing this. And it's almost kind of like there's something in you that's like, I need to do this for myself.
Stephanie Alfonso:So fast forward, you've grinded. You've worked at other companies. You're learning that you've got a niche for sales. You go to your buddy's wedding and in a drunken moment decide to go into business together. Now you're sober.
Stephanie Alfonso:You're like, oh, gosh, I'm doing this. Tell us your thought process. Did you have doubts? Were you like, oh my goodness. Like, what were your reservations?
Stephanie Alfonso:Kinda walk us through going into that.
Ian Hoover:Actually, I don't know if you met Matthew that works for our real estate brokerage, but a good friend of mine, Matthew, he came down from Erie to work for us and learn real estate. But he actually thinks that, when I was a child, I was scratched by a cat that had a disease and ended up dying like three days later. And I got cat scratch fever. Yes. It's a real thing.
Ian Hoover:I've like swollen lymph nodes in my neck over it and everything. But the disease that is cat scratch fever, if you research it and there's like a Forbes article, I can send it to you. I guess there's a certain percentage of like entrepreneurs and CEOs that have it. And then I guess it's really known in the animal world for like smaller animals that are no, once they get it, they're no longer afraid of tigers and lions and they get eaten and stuff like that. So I really think it's that I'm not afraid to fail and I'm not afraid to make mistakes.
Ian Hoover:And I really had no worries. I knew what I was doing. I knew I was going to be successful and, don't get wrong. Have we had moments where it's like, holy crap, you know, is this really gonna happen? We had a lawsuit that we ended up not having the right amount of insurance or whatever for a lady she slipped and fell out an open house.
Ian Hoover:And I mean, she was asking for like $1,200,000 over like our insurance coverage is that, I mean, Hey, there was multiple times where I've been like, oh crap, maybe I didn't know what I was doing. Or, and so I definitely got into something. I didn't know what I was getting into. However, I never, for a moment, doubted that myself, especially with Alex there too. I mean, he's got over thirty years in the business.
Ian Hoover:I was like, we're gonna crush this and we're gonna be fine. You know, maybe it's stupidity, but it worked out. Sometimes it's
Stephanie Alfonso:ignorance is bliss.
Ian Hoover:Sometimes. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes it's good just to not know what you're getting into. Cause otherwise, you know, if I had the DeLorean and it was parked out front and I went 88 miles an hour, I don't know if I'd do it over again because number one, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of energy you put into this.
Ian Hoover:And real estate, unlike other companies, the goal is to either a someday have maybe my kids take it over be, you know, someday sell it or something, but it's not as valuable as like a traditional company because you know, your agents aren't under any contract. Right. So when you sell, they could just jump ship and go to another company. So I think if I knew everything I know now going back into it, I probably wouldn't do it again. Or if I did, maybe I'd take the easy way out and open up a franchise or something, which probably will make Stefo out of her chair because she knows how much I'm a fan of the indie space.
Ian Hoover:But going into it blind was probably a good thing because I wouldn't be here if I knew what I was getting into.
Dave Charest:Well, Ian, through this process though, what have you found that you love most about running a business, particularly in the real estate space?
Ian Hoover:I think the coolest thing is just, I get to work with this is the most fun group of people, even though I don't get to see them every day. Cause agents nowadays, they work a lot from home and everything. I get calls from them. I get texts from them. We mess with each other all the time.
Ian Hoover:I mean, it's just a really fun group of people. And it, I need that because honestly, like the real estate space, I think once you're in it for over a decade, it gets a little old, you know, it's like the same stuff over and over again, but being around just the coolest group of people, it's just so much fun. I mean, our pirates games, our happy hours that we do, our holiday parties, we just have a blast together. And I feel like I just get to work with my friends all day long. And and it's not really work when you're having fun.
Ian Hoover:Right? So that's the big thing for me. You know, there's so many challenges and, you know, every day I'm putting out fires, but it's not as grueling as you would think it is because I'm surrounded by people I love and care about.
Stephanie Alfonso:Yeah. I love that you're bringing that up because that's one of the topics that I'm passionate about when I speak to brokers is obviously recruitment and retention. You know, those are your two big r's. So kind of two part question, To find that good talent, to find people that are gonna fit in that culture of Deacon and Hoover, which I've experienced and you guys do. You guys have done an incredible job of fostering culture.
Stephanie Alfonso:I felt like I was part of the family walking into your office within five minutes. Hats off to you guys and what you've established there. How do you do that? What are you doing to you know, we can kinda go into a little deeper about how you truly market the business in your community. But how do you market your business to other agents?
Stephanie Alfonso:How are you attracting the right clients? What does that look like?
Ian Hoover:Yeah. It's kind of a a multi phase thing. Obviously, we have teams now. So now it's getting a little easier to attract more agents because our team leaders are attracting agents. So it's like we're just kinda signing up people on teams.
Ian Hoover:Now we do obviously have, you know, other solo agents that are coming on board. Right now we've actually dialed back the recruiting and it's not really because we don't wanna grow. But again, we wanna grow with the right people and the people that we reached out to to recruit kind of cold calling wise, we've only had really one of them ever work out to where we were really happy that they're here and everything. Now we have a couple of new ones that just came on last year and are working out pretty well. But the big thing for us is we wanna, when we're looking at existing agents, we wanna find those agents that produce.
Ian Hoover:So they're doing maybe like one to which our market, by the way, we're a $200,000 market. Right? That's our average sales price. We're not like a New York City where it's a million dollars a sale. We want somebody that's gonna be doing that like 1 to $2,000,000 in production range.
Ian Hoover:So we know they know how to sell houses, but they just don't know how to run a business and how to grow a business. And then we can teach them those other things that go along with it. So that's the ideal person for us is kind of a lower producing agent that maybe doesn't know how to grow their business, but wants to grow their business. They're hungry and eager. Anything over $5,000,000 producer.
Ian Hoover:I mean, they want that sign on check. They want, ownership in the company. They want all this, like an actor who has like a list of things that are requirements for them to, to join your company. Right. And that's just not what we're going to go get, you know, now if one of them wanted to join us and they were realistic and they just wanted the support and training, then we absolutely come on board.
Ian Hoover:But so we really found out that we don't want the agents that don't do any business because there's a reason why they're not doing any business at all. Right. But we don't want the really heavy hitters either. We want to play in our range and we want to build those 1 to $2,000,000 producers into $10,000,000 producers. And then continue to redo that over and over again.
Ian Hoover:So that's kind of our niche. Now, as we expand in different markets, we're probably gonna try and get some hitters, at least one hitter in each market so that we have something to off of. And maybe that might even end up being like maybe their market or their office. We haven't really figured that out yet as we expand, but because there's one thing we did have early expansion, like in 2018 or 2019, we bought another small brokerage in the East Of Pittsburgh. And the old owners were supposed to stay on and help us build up that office.
Ian Hoover:And then they quickly dipped out. We probably should have used a non compete agreement then. And, but what I found out during that learning process, again, it's a learning process, not a mistake. And what I found out there is that there's only one me. Right.
Ian Hoover:And I can't be in two places at one time. So it's going to be kind of hard for me to build and develop another office without somebody who is like me and who's financially invested into that location. So I think that's the a big part of our growth as we continue to expand.
Dave Charest:Ian, one of the things I like about what you're saying here, right, is, like, really knowing who it is that you're going after. Right? Like, who you're looking for. And I think that's one of the biggest realizations, I think, that anybody can have marketing any type of business. Right?
Dave Charest:Because if you know who you're going after, it makes it easier actually to do those things and easier to make decisions. Right? So I'm wondering, could you walk us through, like, what it is that you are doing from a marketing perspective to reach that niche that you're trying to get to?
Ian Hoover:When it comes to the agent specifically, when we are in full recruiting mode, we actually have in our software that we got from Stephanie back in the day, we actually have a CRM portion of that CRM that's just to recruit agents. And so I typically sort by what areas they're selling the houses in. And then I focus in on how much they're selling. So those are kind of the two things. And then I literally just pick up the phone and call them.
Ian Hoover:You know, that's the number one best way to build a relationship. Hey. My name's Ian. I'm with Deacon Hoover. You know, if they don't know who I am, I'll start it like that.
Ian Hoover:I'd love to buy you a cup of coffee and talk business, you know, and just kinda leave it at that. And, you know, it's probably a 10% yes. Rate, but, that's the best way to get in front of them. Ask them why that they're only, a $1,000,000 producer and then kind of show them that like, Hey, if you come over here, we're gonna show you how to build your $1,000,000 business into a $5.10, dollars 15 million business. And, oh, Hey, we've done it 10 times now, you know, 15 times now over and over again.
Ian Hoover:Right. We know how to do this. We know how to do the business. And that's really the focus there. Now, when it comes to the branding and marketing, that's probably the toughest part of being a brokerage.
Ian Hoover:Cause when you start up an independent real estate brokers, like nobody knows who the hell you are, you know? So taking cold calls back in the day with our agents and, you know, we'd be like, Hey, it's Ian with deacon Hoover. They'd be like, who, what? Like, what do you do? Like, who are you now?
Ian Hoover:It's to the point where at least if you're, I would say within a 20 mile radius of our office, you've probably at least heard of our company which is, it's getting a lot easier in that way, but I did a lot of affordable branding is what I like to call it, where like we bought, I think Steph has some, I'm wearing one right now. We have hoodies with our logo. I do.
Kelsi Carter:I sure do.
Ian Hoover:A big logo and we give those to our agents to wear. And obviously we're big on social media. I would say out of all the brokerages in Pittsburgh, we have to post more than any other brokerage in Pittsburgh, at least consistently, you know? And part of that is our software that we got is automated and it does our, a lot of our social media posting for us, but we also sprinkle in our creativity and our fun and our personalities into that as well. And then of course urge our agents to do it too, but that's a whole nother realm of issues.
Ian Hoover:But I think today, nowadays, if you're not online, if you're not marketing online, you're not marketing at all. Billboards, I don't know how I see people do billboards, but I'm just like, how do you even rectify that and say that's a good investment? You know, you're spending $3,000 a month for a billboard. I mean, unless if you have a specific number that's devoted to like, when calls come in on that number, you know, it came from that billboard. I don't know how you can even come up with like an ROI and whether that makes sense or not.
Ian Hoover:And I'm just not a big fan of spending money for no reason. So that's kind of our, our attack is we attack online. Cause it's so cheap. Like back in the day when I first signed up in real estate, they said here's a hundred postcards, mail them out to everybody, you know, like, and that cost me like, I don't know, a hundred bucks or something like that when I mailed them out. And nowadays you can reach 10,000 people for a hundred, you can reach a hundred thousand people for a hundred dollars Right.
Ian Hoover:If you do it right. And you're strategic about how you're investing into your business. So that's my real big takeaway with marketing is get online, build a presence, build a sphere. And I know some other agents in town that I watch and they're doing some really cool things too. Steph and I talked about on my podcast where, you know, just one guy in town, he doesn't even show his face on camera, but he just video tapes neighborhoods and coffee shops and, you know, and that just draws people's interest.
Ian Hoover:And then he gets referrals from people moving to town. So it's there's all kinds of ways to do this business. You just gotta find what works best for you.
Stephanie Alfonso:Yeah. Yeah. And be consistent with it.
Ian Hoover:Well, I
Dave Charest:mean, yeah, consistency is always, like, the huge thing no matter what you're doing. Right? Like, I'm curious then how do you I guess, kind of like a two part question. Right? Like, one, what are you looking for?
Dave Charest:Like, how are you measuring success in the efforts that you're doing from a marketing perspective? And then from there, I know you're big on kind of like automation and adopting, like things that are happening with AI and those types of things. So like, how does that kind of change what you're doing just from a process standpoint as well? So two part, how do you measure your success and then how are you adopting
Ian Hoover:these new trends? Yeah. Yeah. I think that we really gauge our success on just the fact that we're constantly growing and we're our numbers are always increasing. And if you look at the market, that's not always the case.
Ian Hoover:2023 was probably the worst year in real estate that I've been in since like when I first got my license in 2021. And we went down about 6% a year over year from '22 to '23. And most of the other brokerages out there went 30% down. Right. So we look at that as a huge win.
Ian Hoover:And then moving forward in '24, we rebounded very quickly and we actually increased sales from '22. So we were pretty ecstatic about that and we hit our goals. And so so that's a big thing for me, as long as we keep hitting our goals and keep progressing in the right direction, I think we're doing the right thing. AI on the other hand is, I mean, it's so amazing. If you're not using AI, you are missing the boat, but at the same time I get it.
Ian Hoover:It's probably gonna ruin our whole entire world at some point. So, you know, I I'm looking at it as like, I'm going to use it while it's here and available, because if I'm not, I'm at a competitive disadvantage. Right. And that's kinda how I look at it, but AI is so great. Like you can actually have every part of your business automated to some extent.
Ian Hoover:And the best, honestly, my favorite thing about AI, if you're like me and you need to send some nasty emails from time to time, just to kind of get people in line or whatever, You type it all up and you look at it. You're like, oh man, this is brutal. You can copy and paste that in and you say, clean this up, but make it still very direct and, you know, give it direction. And then it creates this wonderful, beautiful, polished email that, you know, when you tell somebody that they're messing up, it's done in a way that they respect you for it instead of get pissed off because you just called them bad names and everything else I had in my initial email that I was about to send.
Stephanie Alfonso:Hysterical. And in my AI classes, I'm gonna start using that. Use this as a PR tool to help you
Ian Hoover:I am not
Stephanie Alfonso:to be Yeah.
Ian Hoover:I'm not highly educated. I'm here because I know how to talk and I'm good at what I do there, but, like, using the power of AI to make myself a more polished businessman is awesome. And I love it. I mean, I tell my agents all the time, there's a million ways to use this. Okay.
Ian Hoover:You wanna add a new revenue stream to your business, go into chat GPT and say, Hey, give me 10 new ways to get customers in real estate. Right? And it's gonna give you 10 new ways to get customers in real estate. Maybe one of those is a way that you could easily implement into your business. I mean, it can be an idea machine.
Ian Hoover:It can give you ideas on how to organize and train and develop yourself. And it's almost like taking all the resources of the Internet and putting it into one engine. You know, it's pretty cool.
Stephanie Alfonso:Yeah. I love that you're utilizing AI. I also love the fact that you're saying, like, I'm also helping my agents to start utilizing AI. When it comes to your marketing, How are you staying competitive with the big dogs out there? Right?
Stephanie Alfonso:I have a heartbeat for the indie brokers. You know that. We're 90 plus percent of all real estate is considered small business. But when you think about an independent broker with 60 agents like yourself, how are you staying competitive with, you know, the big box brands when it comes to your marketing, your tools, your training, all that?
Ian Hoover:That's one of my favorite questions, Steph, and how I can answer that question, especially like an agent that's really who wants to know is like, when I'm meeting with a new agent is thinking about joining our company is like, why should I join you? Because, you know, you would just think that I'm automatically going to get the best tools if I join a Coldwell banker or a Remax or whatever name and insert any big brand name. And that's not always the case what's happening is similar to back in my corporate world that I got fired from back in the day. You have somebody at the top who's making decisions on what's the best software for you to use, and you have to use that software, or you have to go pay your own money to get the software that fits your business the best. When as an indie broker, we get to choose who our software providers are.
Ian Hoover:And honestly, I think that. And it's probably going to be in every two to three years. We might need to make a change type of situation just to stay on top of everything, but that's allowed us to really create a huge setup of tools for our agents and for our incoming agents. I can literally sit down and tell an agent you're gonna get a thousand dollars plus a month in tools for joining our brokerage. And your business online is gonna be 95% automated for you, which you would have to pay a lot of money for if you went anywhere else.
Ian Hoover:And then the crazy part is, is that I also know what systems most of my competition are using. And it's a a lot of times systems that are older and outdated. And therefore, like, anybody I meet that's thinking about joining a REMAX or us, I mean, I get to tell them, like, hey. Look. You're gonna have to go and pay for your own software or use a software you're probably gonna hate.
Ian Hoover:And that's sort of really the big thing about being indie is we can make that decision.
Stephanie Alfonso:I wanted to pivot a little bit because our time is running out, and I've wanted to address a few things in your book that I took notes on that mattered to me and a few quotes that I wanted to go over. And one of them that stood out is and it's because I got to experience it one like firsthand with you is the art of negotiation. And I feel, Ian, I have watched you in action. You are a great negotiator. And especially now in the real estate industry, everything that happened with the NAR lawsuit and buyer's agent compensation changing, we are in a negotiator's paradise.
Stephanie Alfonso:So as I'm reading this, I was like, man, I really hope Ian is, like, having a masterclass for his agents because he is a very great negotiator and got to read all about how you developed that muscle. I will say I relate to you. I as well, I love buying cars. Love it. I'm such a weirdo.
Stephanie Alfonso:Like, when I have to buy a car, it's so exciting for me. And I'm reading you and I'm like, woah. We, you know
Ian Hoover:Most people hate car action.
Dave Charest:Like, oh, I hate it. That's the worst process ever.
Stephanie Alfonso:Totally. And to me, it's like a game. I'm like, oh. Yeah. So crazy.
Stephanie Alfonso:I know. My husband, like, rolls his eyes like, oh, gosh. We need a new car. Oh, it's a great time for stuff. But, you know, again, we live in a negotiator's playground.
Stephanie Alfonso:What are you doing to impart these skills? I mean, negotiating is wild right now, and how we're negotiating every aspect of our business as well as our worth. Just negotiating, like, hey. What am I worth to you? Is a thing that's holding a lot of agents back.
Stephanie Alfonso:That's why we see so many agents leaving the industry is because they're really having to make that one of their strongest muscles. So share your thoughts on
Ian Hoover:it. They're leaving the business because they're lazy and they don't wanna work hard for their money. Right. That's why they're leaving. They got in during 2020 when it was so easy.
Ian Hoover:You just video show a house and sell it. Right. And everybody's making crazy money and all that. And now that the industry is getting hard again, which it does, it goes through its ebb and flows like any industry does the ones that are lazy and don't wanna work hard are gonna be exiting the business or putting their license into referral or whatever the situation is. And the other ones are gonna put their head down and grind or even better.
Ian Hoover:They're gonna find. Anytime that you're in sales, you have a comp plan, right? With commission. Your main job is to analyze that comp plan and figure out how I can take advantage of that comp plan. Right.
Ian Hoover:Just like our taxes, we gotta take advantage of the tax code too. Right. And so like when this comes out and they're like, Hey, you now have to negotiate your commissions. That's like a light bulb going off in your head is like, now I get to go make more money. Right?
Ian Hoover:Like this lawsuit that's actually supposed to hurt our industry actually wound up helping our industry. And like, you gotta think that most of the newer agents in this business, they're buyer's agents. They're not going out and getting a bunch of listings. Right. Especially because nobody likes to cold call anymore.
Ian Hoover:So they're not getting expired listings like they used to back when I got in the business. But what they're really going to be able to do is as the market cools off, which it is going to cool off, we're heading
Stephanie Alfonso:towards, what's going to eventually be a slow period
Ian Hoover:in the next, probably three to five years. If they, eventually be a slow period in the next, probably three to five years. If they sharpen their skills on negotiation, then when a house sits on the market for a couple months, they're gonna be able to go to that seller and be like, Hey, look, I got an offer for you. Guess what? I want 5% commission.
Ian Hoover:Right. Like you want to sell this house. I want 5% commission to sell this house. I'm going to do a lot of work and I want paid for it. Right.
Ian Hoover:So that's going to open up just a huge opportunity for buyer's agents moving forward to make money. Not to mention they can leverage how much their client's willing to pay versus how much the seller's willing to pay. So there's a whole bunch of different ways to take advantage of them. And really it's just about communicating properly to your clients. Right?
Ian Hoover:Like you just explain like, this is what I'm gonna get paid And you know what? It's even better. Be transparent with your client. Like, if people think that, like, oh, the agent made $12,000 for selling my house. That's crazy.
Ian Hoover:Right? Like, that's a lot of money. Well, you know what? They're splitting with their brokers, so maybe they made $7 after splitting with their broker, and then they're paying taxes on that. So there's another 40% gone to taxes.
Ian Hoover:Right? So now we're dealing with $3,500. So they did $3,500 to work nonstop around the clock for how many pointless hours. People don't realize the behind the scenes stuff too. So all this is doing is creating an industry to where we have to sell ourselves now.
Ian Hoover:And we have to tell people, this is why we make the money we make because we do this, this, this, and this behind the scenes that you're never even gonna see. And that's really the big thing. And honestly, anytime you talk to a for sale by owner who has struggled to sell their house, a lot of times they respect that agent a lot more than the traditional client that gonna hire an agent. Why? Because they went through it and realized this ain't easy.
Ian Hoover:You know, this isn't fun. This is an E and I need a professional. And you can also use NAR statistics. I mean, the national association of realtor is great with their stats. And I don't remember the exact stats off the top of my head, because I'm not actively out there selling like crazy anymore.
Ian Hoover:But like back when I was selling like crazy, I was able to tell for sale by owner, a you're putting it on the market and using a licensed real estate agent, a realtor is going to get you like 13% more for your house than not using a realtor is. So even if you pay, let's just call it 6% commission, which we're not supposed to use rounded numbers anymore. But even if you use 5%, whatever the commission is, I'm still gonna make you double what you're paying me. And really, you're not even paying me all of that money because I'm gonna share my commission. That's how it used to work anyway.
Ian Hoover:So, and that's really the, as a selling professional, you need to have all those numbers memorized in your head. So you can just snap off and tell them exactly what to do is. Hey. I'm gonna make you on average 15% more. If you know your own personal numbers, even better.
Ian Hoover:Right? Hey. The average is 13%, but I actually made my clients 18% more. And you can use things like through the negotiation period too, like through your inspection period, through your appraisal period, negotiation period too, like, through your inspection period, through your appraisal period, how much money you save people, and start keeping track of those numbers and and use that to your advantage.
Stephanie Alfonso:Absolutely. It is so important now that agents really focus on, again, selling themselves. Right? We talk about good salespeople need to know the product. Right?
Stephanie Alfonso:Agents need to understand. They need to know themselves, what they're worth, what they do. With you talking about just for FSBOs, for sale by owners, Miami Association just put out a stat not too long ago. And don't quote me on this. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe it was the average seller using an agent was getting between, I think it was 70 or $90,000 more for the transaction.
Ian Hoover:Think about it.
Stephanie Alfonso:And so it just kinda lends to, you know, I wouldn't go to into a courtroom without being represented by an attorney. Right? Why would we ever wanna go into the largest transaction of our lives without having somebody that has a fiduciary responsibility to represent me in that? And I'm with you. And I love that.
Stephanie Alfonso:I know you're coaching your agents on that of these are all the things you need to be showing to show your worth, to show your value so that it's not we need to change that stereotype that agents make too much money for doing nothing. They picture a 56 year old woman with rhinestone shoes and a name tag getting in a car and shaking you around on a Saturday and showing you a beautiful kitchen with the pie in the oven. And they're not showing all the nitty gritty of what this industry is made of. And so I think it is absolutely crucial that agents become stellar, top notch negotiators and are communicating their value prop to the community.
Ian Hoover:You don't see when that agent, that same agent that looks so great at the open house or whatever, you don't see when they call their broker later that night crying because of three things that happened that day. You know, it's not, an easy business. It's not fun. It can be sexy at times, but you gotta grind. The ones that it's just like just about any sales industry, eighty twenty rule.
Ian Hoover:Right? 80% of the money is made by the top 20%. If you're not in that top 20%, you gotta grind.
Dave Charest:I'm just curious as we start to wind down here. Like, what would be the big thing that you've learned that you'd want to impart to others as you've been doing your own thing here? And, like, what's the most important thing for people to kinda get as they embark in doing this on their own as well?
Ian Hoover:Well, it's tough because everybody does our business a little differently. You know? I think that the most important part is kind of going with a game plan, you know, going to the game plan, have your goals set up, be focused and ready to go. And you have to give that game plan and those goals time to work. Right.
Ian Hoover:So, I mean, if you're like, Hey, I'm going to make 25 cold calls a day, and then you stop making cold calls three days later. Well, that's not gonna work. Right. Or you stop making cold calls thirty days later. Cause you're just not seeing the, you know, the results that you want.
Ian Hoover:I mean, honestly, I didn't become an cold caller until probably six to eight months down the road of making a hundred calls a day. Right. It's I put in the book too, a lot of little, tricks that you can use. For instance, Dave, if I were to call you and you were an expired listing and I say, how do you pronounce your last name, Dave? I've Sure.
Ian Hoover:Sure. Sure. Okay. I don't wanna mess it up. But if I call you, and that's the first thing is a lot of last names are harder to pronounce.
Ian Hoover:But if I call you and say, hey, mister Surest,
Dave Charest:what are
Ian Hoover:you thinking right off the bat? If I say, hi, mister Surest.
Dave Charest:You got my name right.
Stephanie Alfonso:But you're like, you're gonna try to sell me something.
Dave Charest:But I'm like, you're somebody that doesn't really know
Ian Hoover:me. Yeah. Like, I don't know you this is a sales call or spam or whatever else. Right. That's what people are thinking when they hear that.
Ian Hoover:But if I call you and say, Hey, Dave, you're thinking that we know each other, maybe I got a new number or something. Right. So it takes you off edge a little bit, and then you can transition into that call a lot easier. The other thing is, is I'm big on like, you have to have a power statement is what I call it. Right.
Ian Hoover:Is you have to have something that's going to blow their mind when you say it. And it sounds hard, but like, I would just say, like, I sell houses that other agents have had trouble selling. Right. That's what I would say to expired listings. My name is Ian.
Ian Hoover:I sell houses that other agents have had trouble selling. And that's why I'm calling you because your house was on the market for over a year and didn't sell. I have availability, you know, Friday at two or Saturday at 10AM. When would you like to meet for my no cost consultation? And they just like, oh, well, you know what, let me talk to my wife.
Ian Hoover:You know what? My schedule fills up really quick. You could still talk to your wife and call me back to change times. Well, let's get that. You just gotta, you gotta be persistent with it.
Ian Hoover:And the only way to get to be a true expert at whatever your niche is. Mine was cold calling back in the day, but whatever your expert at whatever your niche is. Mine was cold calling back in the day, but whatever your niche is, is to constantly do it and fine tune your skills. And people just give up too easily.
Stephanie Alfonso:I know we need to wrap up, but there's one more thing I wanted to get to again. It's because I think I've seen it. I read about it, and I'm like, yep. That is Ian. That is the culture he has.
Stephanie Alfonso:And that's relationship building. You have done a great job just internally, again, with having great culture, building a relationship with the agents that you mentor and that you train up. And, you know, you talk a lot in the book about Gary Keller's thirty three touch system. That's, you know, less than one touch a day. Right?
Stephanie Alfonso:With keeping in keeping in consistent communication with your sphere. And so one thing that I wanted to just have you end on is what is your tips or tricks or advice to just maintaining good relationships, keeping relationships with past customers, not being a statistic, and only having 13% of your past business actually call you again. I would love to hear how you do that. How do you maintain these great relationships?
Ian Hoover:Well, you missed your opportunity to plug right there because you should've said, like, how do you stay in constant contact with your with your consumer?
Stephanie Alfonso:Listen. This isn't my first podcast. I've said I've gotten a lot of my cheesy stuff out of the way. You know? I've done all the things.
Stephanie Alfonso:I'm trying to play it a little cool.
Ian Hoover:Well, it's a really great question. And honestly, one of my favorite things about sales is the building relationships with people. And I always say that I'll remember your face, but not your name for some weird reason. You know, if I haven't seen you in a while, I'm going to remember the face and then it might take me a little while. Or I might even remember your house before I remember your name, which that happens too from time to time.
Ian Hoover:But the big thing for me is that you want to build the network and you want to be more than just their real estate professional or their sales professional, whatever industry you're in. And you wanna be their friend. I mean, honestly, I mean, a lot of times after I'm done with the sale, I'm, you know, if I haven't already, I'm adding them on Facebook. I'm plugging their birthday into my calendar so I can call them on their birthday. I keep notes to what their favorite beverages are, what their favorite, you know, things to do are, you know, what sports teams they like.
Ian Hoover:Right. And I actually got a lot of this from an old lender of mine back in the day. His name's Todd, and he may or may not listen to this. He's no longer in the business. I'm trying to get him back into the business actually, but I called it the Todd Novak effect.
Ian Hoover:I'm a Dallas cowboys fan in Pittsburgh. Okay. It's not a great thing. Okay. It really is not a great thing.
Ian Hoover:But so Todd used to order calendars for all of his agents. Right. He, you know, Pittsburgh calendars or whatever that they could stick on their fridge and know the schedule. Right. And that was something he did for all the agents that gave him business throughout the years.
Ian Hoover:Right. And for me, he would order Dallas Cowboy calendars. Right. But because the minimum quantity was two fifty. So every year I would get Dallas Cowboy calendars.
Ian Hoover:Right? Because he didn't wanna leave me out. But honestly, like, something like that, if you can find a little thing like that, that's something you'll never forget. Right. And that's what we're doing right now is we wanna create a situation where that person's never gonna forget about you.
Ian Hoover:And they're always gonna think about that one thing you did that just blew them away. Right. Whether it's, you got there early and shoveled the sidewalk for them and salted so that they don't slip and fall or anything that you can do to kind of set yourself apart and show them that I'm here to be your friend, as well as your agent and everything else involved in a lot of my clients have become friends of mine. And a lot of my agents are friends of mine. And I want to have as many friends in the world as possible.
Ian Hoover:And that's really the attitude I take to it. And even my competition usually ends up being my friend after everything. You know, we're goofing off and laughing and talking like Obama and Trump the other day. It's, you just gotta
Stephanie Alfonso:That's right. That's right. And when it all comes down to it, right, we might be on different teams, but we're playing the same game. So
Ian Hoover:Two quick things, though, before I let you go. Number one, you said pivot earlier. Okay? And I watched the interview with Ross from Friends. I don't know what his actual name is.
Ian Hoover:I always just call him Ross from Friends. And they asked him what people yell out to him the most. And he said, I'll just be walking down the street and just hear pivot, pivot everywhere I go. Right? That's all he ever hears.
Ian Hoover:And then the other thing is you missed the most important quote, which is the name of the book is short term memory loss. And that's because when I was in retail, back in the days, I worked in wireless retail and I used to have people come in because we had to sell and service. Right. So I used to have people come in and their phones be broken or they drop calls and they're pissed off and they're mad. Right.
Ian Hoover:And I had to turn those mad people into happy people by the time they left the store. That was my goal anyways. But every once in a while you just had that guy that clearly guy or gal that would clearly, it was just their bad day and they just took it out on you. And they left the store angry. Doesn't matter.
Ian Hoover:And you had to have short term memory loss. You had to forget about that. Cause that was gonna affect the rest of your day. If you let that person who came in and blew up on you affect the rest of your day, your sales are not going to be what you think they're going to be. Right.
Ian Hoover:So if you're making cold calls and you have somebody tell you to F off or anything negative that could possibly come out of that, you have to forget about it and pick the phone call up and pretend like it never happened. So that's why the book's called short term memory loss. It does not make any sense at all until you read it, but that's my big thing. Have short term memory loss. If you have a negative thing happen to you, forget about it, move on, and go make something positive happen.
Dave Charest:Alright, friend. Let's recap some items from that discussion. Steph, great conversation as always. What do you got for us today? What are some things we should be thinking about?
Stephanie Alfonso:Alright. So takeaway number one, focus on culture in your brokerage. Really to retain great talent, fostering an atmosphere where agents actually feel supported and success is cultivated is how you're going to retain great talent.
Dave Charest:Yeah. You know, Steph, you mentioned, obviously, you've experienced that culture that Ian has built with his brokerage firsthand. And, you know, what I love is that as an owner, right, you really get to decide not only, like, the clients that you're trying to attract, but also the talent that you're trying to bring into your business. And to your point, when you create that supportive atmosphere, it really goes a long way to your overall success as a business. Right?
Stephanie Alfonso:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, it's also great to have a little bit of fun. I definitely felt that when I was at their office.
Dave Charest:What's your second item for us here today?
Stephanie Alfonso:Alright. So number two, listen to the voice of your agents, brokers. Listen. Listen. Listen.
Stephanie Alfonso:When it comes to adopting new tech or anything really that's going to impact the day to day, seek their input. This is gonna increase adoption for whatever you're looking at.
Dave Charest:I think we talk about this a lot. Right? We hear this a lot from people. I know we as, you know, marketing, I'm using air quotes here, experts. Right?
Dave Charest:We tell people, insert whoever the audience is here. Right? But by listening to them and how you you start to really find out how to improve your offerings and how your marketing can improve as well to get people to take those actions that you want them to take and do those things. So I just think, yeah, great one there because it's an important reminder. Number three, what do you got for us?
Stephanie Alfonso:So number three for me is really to be relentless in your pursuit of success. So whatever success looks like for you, don't let setbacks hold you back. Right? Sometimes, as Ian says, short term memory loss is needed to shake off those hard moments and just keep going. You know, that is the heart of an entrepreneur.
Stephanie Alfonso:So even if there's two steps back, take three steps forward, keep going, never give up.
Dave Charest:Yes. Keep going. There is no failure, only things to learn from. So that leads me to an action item for today. How about we say something along the lines of make an adjustment.
Dave Charest:Right? So what's something you've learned? Start thinking about what's going on in your life, in your business. What's something you've learned over the last month? Maybe it's something about your operations or maybe it's something relating to your marketing.
Dave Charest:Put some time in your calendar. Right? Review what you need to review and then find that small adjustment. Maybe it's a big adjustment, whatever it is, but find that adjustment that you need to make and then make it happen because it's through those adjustments that you and your business actually start to grow. Right?
Dave Charest:Steph, once again, thank you for joining us for our real estate edition of Be A Marketer today.
Stephanie Alfonso:My pleasure always.
Dave Charest:We'll see you next time.
Ian Hoover:See y'all.
Dave Charest:I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. Please take a moment to leave us a review. Just go to ratethispodcast.com/bam. Your honest feedback will help other small business marketers like yourself find the show. That's ratethispodcast.com/bam.
Dave Charest:Well, friend, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and continued success to you and your business.