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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast found on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Senator Pagoda and BamBam, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some scotch, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.
So take this as your 120th official invitation to join us. And become a card-Carrying Lounge Lizard Plan, I meet us here once a week. We are gonna smoke a new world cigar tonight. Share our thoughts on it and give you our formal lizard rating. We discuss the brand and history of this popular cigar. We read some listener email and Rooster reveals his true identity as an A-list movie star, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours.
So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair eighteen-year-age Dewar's blended Scotch whiskey with the LaFleur Dominicana Andalusian Bowl.
A very unique cigar from the Dominican [00:01:00] Republic. Tonight on the pod is the La Flor Dominicana Andalusian Bowl. It's a sixty-four ring-age cigar by six and a half inches long. And boys, this is probably one of the most requested cigars. For our listeners. Yeah. From an email standpoint and the messages on Instagram, this is one of the highest, you know, most requested cigars that we get to review.
**Bam Bam:** Also, one of the
**Gizmo:** toughest to find right now. Yeah. This was a real challenge for us to get. Yeah. Thank, thankfully we had a friend at, uh, one of the local shops who hooked us up. Right. Uh, over in Lodi. Fanatics, yeah. Yeah. It's
**Bam Bam:** Kenny over at Fanatics. And Lodi. Yeah. Kenny hooked us up. Yep. Thank you so much.
**Gizmo:** Thanks Kenny for making it a little easier. Oh yeah, but these were, uh, these were very hard to find. I was looking for quite some time on this. Oh, me too.
**Rooster:** Well, there's only two rollers that roll the cigar, apparently.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Tough two roll. Yeah. This is a very, very unique size. We could talk about that in a little bit.
It's a cool-looking cigar. It is. And it's like, it, it feels like it's dense. It's heavy. Heavy. Yeah. I hope the draws clear. There's a lot of tobacco in this. Yeah. [00:02:00] Alright boys, let's cut this thing. See we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper.
Mine is really nice on the cold draw and
**Bam Bam:** very nice. Mm-Hmm. I'm getting dried fruit all day on this
**Gizmo:** thing. Honestly, the amount of, uh, air that's moving through the cigar right now is kind of shocking to me. I know, I know. With how it looks and feels.
**Bam Bam:** It, I was a little suspect. I didn't think it would draw this openly.
Me neither. It's very nice.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Hmm. You could tell that the construction is clearly very, very good. Yeah. Like you
**Bam Bam:** said, not easy to make, but the color of the wrapper is beautiful. This pale brown.
**Gizmo:** Very interesting. The
**Senator:** cold draws just a lot of sweet dessert notes. Yeah. I
**Gizmo:** really like it. Mm-Hmm. And on the foot of the cigar, it almost smells like, like it was like a tobacco leaf dipped in honey.
Yeah. Or
**Bam Bam:** I'm getting like a Yeah, like a graham crackery honey type thing.
**Gizmo:** Both for sure. It just smells like, like it was just dipped in a vat of honey. I might take a bite. Hmm. All right boys, let's like this thing, the Laflore Dominicana Andalusian Bowl. [00:03:00] Again, it's a 64 ring gauge cigar. One of the biggest we've ever done in the pod by six and a half inches long.
Who is hat this Bam, bam. Has, I've, I've had
**Bam Bam:** it twice. The first time was maybe six years ago, longer when we first joined our previous lounge, and then I had one, maybe a year and a half ago. And I'll tell you something, I hated it the first time I had it, but just recently, the most recent one I had was actually very, very good.
**Gizmo:** I'm, I've always been intrigued by the cigar. Yeah. The thing that keeps me intrigued is that even at, even though it's a sixty-four ring gauge, it still comes down to probably what is closer to like a fifty-Two mm-Hmm. 50. Yeah. You know, so it, the mouth feel toward the head, the mouth field is, is totally reasonable despite the size of it.
**Senator:** Yeah. We're gonna be lighting this for a full hour. Do you hear all the lighters going? This is insane. Should I put
**Gizmo:** some like pause music? Yeah. And it's not fully lit yet. I'm gonna be out of [00:04:00] butane by the time I get this thing
**Bam Bam:** lit. What a unique shape. You're taking a draw.
**Gizmo:** I need to light it again.
Alright. I didn't do enough. We're working hard over here for you listeners. Correct. Lighten this thing. I think I'm done.
**Senator:** How do I unlight this and get back to the cold draw that, that's what I feel right now. I don't know. I
**Bam Bam:** like it right off the bat here. Still getting those dessert notes. Fruit.
**Gizmo:** It's certainly not putting out, and, and I know we just lit it.
It's not putting out as much, I don't know. Smoke as I would hope from a cigar of this size. You mean the pr, the, the combustion. I would, I would you look like a chimney from here, but it's the draw in my mouth. I think the, the foot is burning better than whatever I'm getting through the cigar. Really? I'm not getting a lot of smoke in my mouth.
I'm having the same exact experience. Yeah. It feels thin to me. Hmm. For what it is. I think
**Pagoda:** it, it improves probably, you know, after a couple of puffs,
**Bam Bam:** I would absolutely go slow with this thing. Oh, [00:05:00] definitely. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** Oh, damn. You're gonna be here for
**Bam Bam:** four hours? No, this, this will, this'll back right up into you,
**Gizmo:** man.
I think we have to make this a two part episode.
**Pagoda:** It's a beautiful shape though. I like it. I don't know. Mm-Hmm. It is. Have you had this, I've had this once before. I, do you remember the issue come with these? Was it ca hip packs where they would sell variety packs? Variety packs for like 200 bucks. It would give you 10 cigars or something, or, yeah.
And I think I had bought one of those at some point. Mm-Hmm. And, uh, um, Kenny does those and this
**Bam Bam:** quite successfully, I will say as well. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Fanatics is a nice pack. Yeah. And
**Pagoda:** this, and this was included in them? Yeah.
**Gizmo:** This could have been included. Which, where did you get these? Which manufacturer? I think
**Pagoda:** the TAA.
Oh, TAA? Yes. They did the variety packs or something. Yeah. Uh, this, yeah, I, I'd bought it in one of the packs and it was included in there and I tried it. I wasn't very excited about it because I know, um, uh, another one of our listeners, um, a buddy of mine, he really wanted to [00:06:00] try this. And he is, you know, he, everyone's heard about the cigar, like, if you want cigars, sure.
Of course. Can't get the cigar. And he asked me for my opinion and I said I wouldn't bother. But, um, how are you feeling about it now? I dunno. It's too early to tell. No.
**Gizmo:** Uh, the ar the aroma is really nice. On the foot. I don't love the aroma on the foot. No, I agree with Rooster. I don't like it. I don't, don't, mine
**Bam Bam:** doesn't smell great.
We are not on the same page. We're not,
**Gizmo:** but we're honest though. Ba and that's what counts.
**Bam Bam:** That's that's correct. But uh, I do like it so far. Rooster.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I'm gonna hold my judgment. I like it so
**Rooster:** far. Yeah. Getting a bit of
**Gizmo:** leather. The smoke's picking up a little bit for me too. Smoke's actually very nice.
The aroma's great. That's
**Pagoda:** good. I think it's become like illegal smoke out
**Gizmo:** here. You know, I gotta tell you, I love the band on it. This very ornate, obviously large band. 'cause the cigar is so massive, very simply has LFD on it for [00:07:00] Flora Dominicana. Under that Andalusian Bull. It's, I guess it's raised, or would you say the word embossed?
It is embossed. It's embossed. It's embossed, yeah. Um, and what's cool is you could see the matador holding the flag. Mm-Hmm. Uh, and that's what this cigar is named after. It's actually based on the size of an old cigar mold that Lido Gomez who founded La Flora Dominicana in 19 ninety-four. It's found it, this was an old cigar mold he found in Belgium.
Wow. That's, and that's where this size came from. Pretty cool. Uh, obviously naming it after Andalusia was a, was a tip of the hat to his, uh, country. He was born in Spain and uh, it was named after Matadors in the bullfighting industry in, uh. In Spain?
**Rooster:** Yeah. When, when you think of La, Flora, Dominicana, you know, a picture comes vividly to your mind.
There's only one. There's only one. I mean, you would see like these, uh, you know, two-page ads in the Cigar Aficionado magazine. That's true about Lido Gomez and his wife [00:08:00] Ines
**Gizmo:** Gomez on a horse. It's just a picture of the two of On horses. Yeah. Yeah. In through the tobacco
**Rooster:** fields. Beautiful picture mean that's what you think of.
But he's, he's known for very interesting
**Gizmo:** shapes of cigars. Yeah. Like the double chisel legato. That's a, that's a special cigar. It's different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the chisel is actually, they, they claim is the only cigar that's ever been patented. That specific cut-off top chisel. Yeah. That comes to quite a, quite honestly a chiselhead.
They patented that. I've
**Bam Bam:** a, I had a bunch of those way back in the day. I liked them, but I moved away from them when I discovered Pedrone. Honestly. Yeah, for me personally,
**Gizmo:** the double ligero chisel
**Rooster:** was a powerful smoke. Big time.
**Pagoda:** I think we should definitely try that. I, I remember smoking that
**Gizmo:** very
**Rooster:** strong. I remember smoking that in the afternoon.
Did on an empty, empty
**Gizmo:** stomach. And you took a nap. Yeah, I was queasy. Wow. It was a bit queasy. Rooster Met is match. It's true. Was it that nicotine heavy? [00:09:00] It was, yeah. That's a powerful smoke. Oh yeah, it is. Yeah.
**Senator:** So that's what I, I mean, I know nothing about this brand other than just what I've heard this, the first LFD actually I've ever smoked.
Yeah, everybody talks about their full flavored robust cigars. This is not that at all. Not this. Yeah. This is, uh, so is this like the mildest of things that they make? 'cause this is
**Gizmo:** totally different. It's a great question actually, because the, the brand started in 19 ninety-four, and they were actually famous for rolling Dominican cigars with Connecticut Shade wrappers.
And that was pretty much the first, I guess four or five, six years of their business was really Connecticut Shade wrapped cigars. Now obviously we're talking about cigars that are known for Oh sure. Knocking Rooster on his ass, like Double Ligero, which was in the, uh, cigar fishing out of top deep, deep wrappers.
Yeah. Yeah. Deep, dark wrappers, Maduro. And, you know, they were in, uh, cigar fishing on the top-twenty-five this year with the double DeJarro cigar. Yeah. Um, so it, it might be something that we have to try. Well, this
**Rooster:** was the number one cigar in twenty-sixteen,
**Gizmo:** I believe. Yeah, that's correct. So they moved from the [00:10:00] Connecticut Shade-focused business in the early two-thousands.
They transitioned to more Maduro on this cigar. The wrapper is Ecuadorian Corojo, so this is not a fully Dominican cigar. The binder and filler are, the wrapper is not. So they move from Connecticut Shade to trying other, other leaves on, on the wrapper and change their blends. I guess probably to, to drive more toward the more common smoker these days, which is, I think a smoker in the U.S is someone that wants something to kick him around.
Have you retro-held yet? I have. It's actually quite nice. It's very nice. It is actually, I think at some points I'm liking it better than the, the regular draw.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. You find that on some cigars, but this is really quite good. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** On the retro hill. This is an, it's, it's very interesting. I mean, I'm, I'm keeping an open mind.
I certainly, if it wasn't for this podcast, probably would never reach for Mm-Hmm. This cigar or Mm-Hmm. Or any of their cigars. Well, this cigar right
**Bam Bam:** now is so over-hyped and hard to get, and hard to get, but kind of, you know, you're not gonna pay what you should be, what you're paying for
**Gizmo:** this. So the [00:11:00] MSRP on this is some, somewhere around 20 bucks.
How much did you pay for it? So
**Bam Bam:** I, Kenny, yeah. At Fanatics really took care of us. I paid $20 for these. Oh wow. That's awesome. Yeah. You could see these well over 35, $40 on the open market right now or more. So he really took care of us. Yeah. Thank you. Kenny,
**Gizmo:** there's, they're very scarce. Mm-Hmm. I
**Rooster:** must say it's unlike any other
**Gizmo:** cigar I've had.
**Senator:** Yeah, I'm, I'm kind of feeling the same way. I mean, I was very confused when I lit this. That's why, you know, I was jokingly saying I kind of wanted to get the cold draw back, but I think for whatever reason, with this shape, this is just a cigar that takes more time to open up, to really get the flavor. And as now I'm further into it, I'm getting some of those notes I got on the cold draw some of those dessert-like notes, which I like.
But the only thing for me is that the finish is a little short on each of those notes. And I just, I'm, I'm wanting more is my only complaint.
**Rooster:** Yeah. I would, I would imagine the cigar is gonna transition to a few different, different notes.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Both Senator and [00:12:00] Pagoda said the same thing, and it makes sense.
It does. It's gonna take time to get this thing settled in, but honestly, I am. It is. So the finish is pretty abrupt. But man, the front and the retro hell for me is really
**Gizmo:** quite nice. There's something buttery about the finish for me there. It, it like, it is short, like you said, but the mouth feel when it's done, it's almost like it's pretty clean.
It's almost as if I had like, um, a like that kind of buttery feel that Caviar leaves you with without the fishy component of it. Like it kind of has that, um, it's not dry.
**Rooster:** It's, you know, it's
**Senator:** not a dry finish. That's true. Right. I agree. I the buttery, it's funny 'cause you know, I'm talking about how as you're smoking it, it's opening up more Mm-Hmm.
And even now as you're saying that, I think the finish is actually lengthening. Like I, that lingers kind of coats your mouth in a nice way. True. So, um, yeah, I just think this is one of these cigars that I'm having to really tell myself I can't judge this too early because I didn't love it on the light.
And there are elements [00:13:00] of it that seem to be improving and getting better. Mm-Hmm. And I think I need to kind of hold my judgment. Yeah. And take your
**Bam Bam:** time with the cigar.
**Gizmo:** For sure. So let's describe for the listener out there who may not have one of these in their hand, the shape of the cigar. So it, it starts at the foot at a sixty-four ring gauge, which it flares to the foot.
That's kind of the thickest point of the cigar. And as it gets closer to the head of the cigar where you cut it, it probably comes down to somewhere in the fifties, I guess, for a mouthfeel, maybe high forties ring gauge, high forties, maybe forty-eight. You know, it's like a Churchill type ring gauge there.
Is this, uh, considered a figurado? I, shape wise, I don't think so. No. No. Hmm. What would you call this shape? I, I think it's highly unique. I don't, I don't even know. Yeah. 'cause I don't
**Senator:** think the foot comes to any point. I think it
**Gizmo:** actually flares out, right? Yeah. It's almost like a Bella coso. Like a bellicoso fino.
That at, at the foot of the cigar is actually, its widest and thickest point. Yeah. So it's almost kind of got a bellicoso idea to the [00:14:00] shape of the cigar, but it's not that, and it's almost got a kind of a, a, a little bit of a box press on both sides of it. If you feel it. It's flattened out. Kind of don't know if that's from the actual stuffing in the box.
Yeah, I
**Senator:** think it's unintentionally box.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. So I didn't buy these, these were not boxed and they were, they've been loose
**Gizmo:** for months. I don't know. As we're going along, the cigar is becoming more interesting to me. I agree. And the flavor is picking up in a, in a very nice way. Correct. So as we discussed, Lito Gomez is the founder of the floor.
Dominicana a Spaniard who's had no. Cuban connection. No Dominican connection, no Nicaraguan connection. He's a Spaniard who fell in love with cigars and founded this company in the height of the cigar boom, in the mid-nineties in 19 ninety-four after his jewelry business went south. And like I said, his initial cigars were considered mild.
Uh, he wrapped everything in Connecticut Shade for the first few years of the business and then soon after started getting the attention of premium smokers [00:15:00] when he began producing stronger blends. Rolled in, like Rooster said, unique shapes, which is kind of what this brand is known for. Uh, obviously the, well, uh, the wedge shaped chisel, which we talked about, they have another one that's pretty famous.
I guess going back in the early two thousands, the El Jaco Perfecto, number one, as cigar aficionados said, these shapes have become mainstays in the cigar world and are only produced by Lafour Dominicana, and of course, the most famous cigar that they're producing these days. Is the one we have in our hand.
The Andalusian Bowl.
**Rooster:** Uh, did, did anybody try? They used to make one in a gold tube. A couple of guys used
**Gizmo:** to smoke that. So
**Bam Bam:** they have one that came out last year with gold wrapper.
**Gizmo:** Now this one actually came in like a gold metal tube.
**Bam Bam:** No, no. But the one that I'm aware of with gold is the gold foil. It was over a hundred dollars a stick.
Wow. Really? I've never had it Really? The lounge down the street here had a box. I wasn't gonna go near it, but [00:16:00] they raved about it. I don't know much about it, but yeah.
**Gizmo:** You would rather have the Opus Dubai, I
**Pagoda:** dunno, with a thin gold foil. I mean saying it might be from Dubai itself. Correct.
**Bam Bam:** 14 carat a
**Rooster:** hundred dollars a stick.
Huh? For a Laflora.
**Gizmo:** Dominicana for that
**Bam Bam:** thing. Yeah. Wow.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So now at this time, they have. 18 lines of cigars. At the time I believe that the bull was out, they were making about four, four and a half million cigars a year. Now they're closer to 6 million cigars a year. So this is a pretty significant operation.
And to your point, rooster, the fact that we're holding the 2016 cigar the year from cigar aficionado in auto in our hand, and it's so hard to get, 'cause they only have a few folks rolling it. I mean that's, it's unfortunate, but I guess it's just the nature of the, well, it was already hard to get, I know, before
**Rooster:** 2016.
So when it became the number one cigar of the year, it, it became
**Gizmo:** even harder.
**Senator:** Mm-Hmm. I just have to say for me, I really don't understand why this cigar is named the Andalusian Bowl. I [00:17:00] mean, there's not like what I'll give this credit as this has opened up. I actually think this is a pretty refined smoke.
It's
**Rooster:** delicious. The name, the name is Deceiving. It is.
**Senator:** Yeah. I mean, you think of a bowl, right? That's like a rough and tumble animal. You're expecting a punch. Exactly. And to me this is like just silky and elegant and refined and um, this is ta complete opposite of that. Yeah,
**Pagoda:** no, that's, I think it's connection to
**Gizmo:** Spain, right?
That's exactly what it is. But like you just said, Bam, you used the word punch. You, you expecting a punch, you're expecting a punch. Yeah. We said that very early on. I don't know what episode it was. It might've been when we did the punch punch from Cuba. Mm-Hmm. When I first heard the, the cigar brand name punch, I thought that was gonna be a full cigar.
Like a cigar that was gonna punch you in the face. Yeah. A full a full experience. Yeah. You know, it's your, your, your eyes, your brain is deceiving you when it Mm-Hmm. When it attaches a name to something. And I thought the same with the Sandalusion. Bull and everything I've seen on the internet is calling the cigar medium to full.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. But we also, there's, there's preconceived notion about this LFD brand. All their cigars are so strong. So you [00:18:00] would just expect this to follow, follow suit, but it doesn't. Yeah. And,
and
**Senator:** clearly people posting about this online have not smoked this cigar medium to full. Oh, medium. Full absolutely wrong.
Nothing full
**Bam Bam:** about this. That's, I think it's firmly
**Gizmo:** medium. I would say at this point it's hovering just above mild fat. Yeah. Okay. I think it's mild, medium at this point. Medium, yeah. You know, we're only, what, an eighth of an inch in You
**Bam Bam:** gotta love the, the flavor profile here. You just
**Gizmo:** gotta love this.
It's very unique. I don't know if I love it yet, but it's unique. Really. I will give it credit for being different. I
**Senator:** honestly, I, I wish this were in a smaller format. I just think of Rooster will know what's the girl I'm talking about? Do you remember that? Monte, Cristo, 80th. 80th or eighty-Fifth anniversary.
You had gotten the black lacquer box. Oh yeah, we all had that. Yeah. That, or you, you, I think had one too. Yeah. That was so creamy. And I would describe this as actually very creamy. Very creamy and, um, light in body like this cigars. And that was like a short little, maybe petite Corona. Roughly. Yeah, A little longer.
A bit [00:19:00] longer, yeah. Yeah. And I just feel like that short format, the, the smoke output was still great, but I, I don't know, it just worked really well, and I'm just imagining this in that type of format, and I, I think I'd probably
**Gizmo:** prefer it.
**Rooster:** Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Like in a, in a Corona size, this would be delicious.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** It still is. Yeah. I, I have, honestly, I'm with Pagoda. I have no complaints about this. It's, it's really quite nice.
**Senator:** I don't know. It's just for me, when I have like a big cigar in my hand, I just don't look at it while you're smoking it. I don't, I mean, you feel it. Even just the mouth and just the ring gauge on this thing.
It's like, um, I have a bigger cigar. I don't know. I just feel like
**Rooster:** I want more. It, it also, it also becomes boring when it's a cigar like that size. And if it doesn't, I mean, I don't know. I mean, this might change, right? This might transition. So if a cigar doesn't change, doesn't transition, then it gets boring when it's a big cigar like that.
That's, that's
**Gizmo:** my only,
**Bam Bam:** uh, yeah. I, I feel a little differently if the cigar is performing well and the flavor profile is [00:20:00] something that I really like and it's consistent. It's a one act plate. I'm good with it as long as it continues to perform.
**Pagoda:** You know what I like about this is the combustion is great.
It's pretty easy to smoke as well. The draw is fantastic. Yeah. The draw right meaning is fantastic. Yeah, it's uh,
**Senator:** it's definitely improved. Oh, sure. Because I had Gizmo's experience early on where I wasn't getting that much smoke. Mm-Hmm. But now
**Gizmo:** I'm getting a lot. Oh yeah. I will say, I'm going to double down on this.
Contrary to what Rooster said, I think whatever's going on at my burn line is not nice at all. It's uneven. It does. No, just, it does not smell great like it. My burn line is not pleasant to my nose at all. I think you have, so I don't know if that's unique to this, but what did you have for dinner?
**Bam Bam:** Double garlic pasta.
What did you,
**Senator:** what did you eat in the car on the drive? Did you have your
**Bam Bam:** Caesar salad with extra Caesar?
**Gizmo:** No, I had chicken noodle soup tonight and chovies. Exactly. Your buds are tasty with a side of pot pie.
So more to the band on this that I was reading about. So [00:21:00] the silhouette, like I said, is a matador from, from Spain celebrating the history of the bullfighting sport in Andalusia. The shade of green is similar to what is found on the Andalusian flag and the font on the band. This is pretty cool, is based on Pablo Picasso's handwriting, who of course was the probably the most famous Spaniard painter of all time.
Uh, and he loved to paint bulls. So this is a lift of his handwriting. The, the text for Andalusian Bull here on the band.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, I like it. Well, you also have Salvatore Dali. You can't factor him out.
**Gizmo:** Oh, yeah.
**Pagoda:** Salvatore Dali. Isn't he Italian? No. Alright. I don't, I don't know. That tells you.
**Gizmo:** Bam's an art historian.
I didn't know this all. Girk
**Senator:** of my claim that they used this handwriting
**Gizmo:** before. That's true. There, there could be another lawsuit coming. I mean, Jesus, please.
**Senator:** Unbelievable. This is pretty good. I have to say, I, I'm, I'm, it's not what I normally [00:22:00] would pursue, but I, I'm just really shocked how elegant this is.
**Bam Bam:** He's like, this is pretty good.
**Senator:** I mean, I'm sorry. I just have low expectations because there's so much hype around this cigar. That's true. And for all the hype, I have never once encountered a cigar smoker in any lounge that has said to me, naming their favorite cigars. I've never heard someone put an LFT bull.
In their like top 10 cigars. Yeah. So no
**Bam Bam:** one talks about it. You don't see many people smoke.
**Gizmo:** It's true. And I think that goes for the entire brand. I mean, I just don't I agree. See folks smoking these. No. Um, like we do. They're hard to find. Well, I'm saying all of LaFleur-Gamin economy knows all their
**Bam Bam:** standard, even the other Exactly.
You don't ever, ever lounge I walk into, I don't think I've ever seen anyone smoke an LFD,
**Pagoda:** but, but I do think that a lot of people know the cigar.
**Gizmo:** Of course, it's a famous cigar.
**Senator:** Sure. It's a famous, famous cigar. I knew the cigar and I've never smoked an LFD in my life. Yeah, me too. But that's the problem.
Nobody's, I don't know who's smoking all their cigars. True.
**Gizmo:** So this cigar was, uh, one of the early collaborations [00:23:00] between Lido Gomez and his son Tony Gomez. Who I believe is in his late-twenties, early-thirties. Now he's kind of the, uh, he's the heir apparent, uh, to the business when Lido Gomez retires.
They spent a fair amount of time fine-tuning this blend. Of course, the shape is very unique, so I imagine they struggled quite a bit trying to nail the blend down to something that they really, really like. So it has a combination of Corojo seed, Ecuadorian Habano wrapper. And the blend, uh, inside consists primarily of Dominican, Creo Rooster, how do you say that?
Criollo Criollo ninety-eight tobacco, uh, hybrid and a bet a bit of Pelo de Oro II. I guess it's a special type of tobacco that they use. It's plo
**Rooster:** dro, which means blonde hair,
**Gizmo:** gold hair. See, this is why, or always gold my favorite pelo is my favorite. You know, hair gold, gold hair. This is why I bring this guy.
Correct. He's my translator. And that tobacco is very rare, apparently.
**Rooster:** Is that right? And, and it's very, um, it's like a, it's got a finesse to, to really grow that tobacco. It's not, [00:24:00] it's not that abundant, but it's, uh, it's very, um, it
**Gizmo:** can get mold easily. Mm-Hmm. So it's sensitive. It's very sensitive.
Interesting. Yeah. Kinda like you.
Wow. Shake. That was Artfully done.
**Bam Bam:** You know? I think he's just insulted with the Borat image.
**Gizmo:** You know what I think it is? I think he's kind of playing you with the, with the flag. You're the bull and he's the, uh, the matador over here. He's my ben. That's
**Bam Bam:** what, that's me. You don't call me Ben. You call me Ben.
Ben.
**Gizmo:** Uh, Cigar Fish and Otis said, this is a bold cigar, a full cigar. Mm-Hmm. And I am just not experiencing that yet. So, not so far no, but it's
**Bam Bam:** not, it's not a negative that it's, that it's, you know, mild to medium. It's not a negative at all. I agree. No, it's not. No. 'cause it's so smooth and elegant,
**Gizmo:** but just the
**Rooster:** name being called the Andalusian Bull, it's this, it's nothing.
Yeah. Bold like a bull,
**Gizmo:** you know, so far. Yeah. So I, I, I would assume, you know, obviously this [00:25:00] year marks the 30th anniversary of LFD, I would assume at PCA we're probably gonna see a 30th anniversary cigar launched, celebrating their 30th anniversary. The business is owned by Lido Gomez and his wife Ines Lorenzo Gomez and Lido Gomez was actually in 2016, the same year this was named.
Cigar the year for the first time. That was their first cigar that, and I think only that was named Cigar the year he was also inducted into the Cigar Aficionado Hall of Fame. So this guy's a big deal in the business, and I'm sure that it doesn't hurt that he's been purchasing Double-page ads with that same image you mentioned sitting on horses for, although having the last three, I haven't seen it lately.
Correct. You haven't seen those ads lately. Lately though, right? Is that true? Yeah, I, I, I haven't been looking through the magazine. I haven't noticed them,
**Bam Bam:** which is why this hasn't been ranked recently. Come on.
**Gizmo:** What I found interesting is the number one seller in their entire catalogue, and like I said, they have 18 different [00:26:00] lines of cigars, all comprising five to 10 each.
I, I think somewhere around there their number one selling cigar is the double Lee Harrow DL 700, which is a 60 ring gauge cigar. By six and a half inches long. Holy. That's their number one selling cigar. Wow. So, you know, their profile is, I would assume the type of smoker who's picking up LFD a lot is someone who wants a, a full experience, but a Dominican, a full Dominican experience.
Not like a Padrone or a, you know, a strong Nicaraguan. Mm. I think that is probably that doubly hair, if they were to do that with Nicaraguan tobacco, I think it would probably.
**Senator:** Knock you on your ass. Someone be in a hospital. Yeah. Even the names of these cigars that doubly harrow, it's crazy. DL seven.
Seven-hundred hundred. This sounds like they have a truck with like crazy knowing capacity or something. I,
**Gizmo:** that's true. Do you wanna hear this? One of the other cigars in that line that's also very popular. Turbo Diesel is, it's called the Digger. It's 60 ring gauge. Oh [00:27:00] cow. 60 ring gauge by eight and a half.
Oh, forget it. Make heavy machinery too. This is Unbeliev
**Rooster:** name about farming equipment.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, I could use that to dig out my gardens, man.
**Gizmo:** Unbelievable. Wow. So they have, yeah, they have a lot of cigars. They have three chisels in the uh, do e harrow line. The chisel is fifty-four by six. The chisel Gorda forty-eight by five and a half in the chiselito is a forty-four ring gauge cigar.
For Miguelito. For Miguelito.
**Pagoda:** Correct. For
**Gizmo:** Miguelito. They have some really interesting cigars. Like look at this boys. This is called the Mysterio. Uh, it's a natural, it's available in Escuro fifty-five ring gauge cigar by seven. Look at that. Both ends come to almost a near point. Interesting. Wow. Very unique.
You could, you could hurt someone with that. Yeah. Interesting.
**Bam Bam:** Could play darts with that thing,
**Pagoda:** but they're doing something right. Right. If they're producing 6 million
**Gizmo:** cigars a year, that's true. And, you know, to counter the double Lee Harrow, they also have a Double Clero line, which is one of those cigars.
You might have seen it. It's a gr it has a green [00:28:00] wrapper.
**Bam Bam:** I've seen that long ago. Remember in Rooster at the old club. Oh, Jesus. They had that from time to time.
**Gizmo:** That looks so bad. Yeah, that's good. For St. Patrick's Day. And The Garden. And the Garden.
**Senator:** Honestly, can we review one of these cigars like that? I, I just, for me, you know, we all have strong opinions when it comes to things like, you look at that cigar, it's a gimmick.
You're immediately turned off. It looks like a gimmick, but the fact that they produce it at some point, I just have to say, I've tried it. I'd be very curious. Yeah, we should, we should try it. I be, it's awesome. We should do it for St. Patrick's Day. That's
**Pagoda:** not a bad idea. That's a great idea. That's like a big beady.
All right.
**Gizmo:** Getting notes of pistachio and grass. Hey, so, uh, their farm is located on a plot of land in La Canela. Dominican Republic, and I think that they've been there since the early, uh, the mid nineties. They have farmed all their own tobacco. They've accomplished very similar to Padrone, full vertical integration.
They own everything top to bottom in their production of their cigars. So that's, that's something to [00:29:00] admire because I, I would argue that most of the cigars that they're competing against every year, and not only for business but to be named Top 25, a lot of those manufacturers are not making their own cigars.
If we were to go through that list again, like we did a few weeks ago, most of those Manufacturers in the top 25 are not rolling their own cigars. Mean tatuah. He, he doesn't even roll rolls on cigars. And not that that's a knock, but I think it is a merit, yeah. For companies like this that have achieved full integration, and I don't think there's that many of 'em.
Maybe Rocky Patel, Padrone, Carlito, Fuente. And Davidoff probably, you know, Garcia
**Bam Bam:** family and say what you will about some of those Marcas. They're all very well made cigars. Mm-Hmm. So when you have complete control, it's something
**Gizmo:** to be said. So boys, we are about a half hour into the cigar and I would say I am not even an inch in yet.
It's crazy. It's
**Bam Bam:** actually, it's not. We
**Pagoda:** might have to, there's gonna be a four eye episode. Even me, [00:30:00] it's like barely inch right there.
**Gizmo:** What do you guys think? So far it's, for me, every draw is, is getting a little bit better. I
**Bam Bam:** like it a little bit better. I like it when I can retro every draw and I'm like enveloping myself in smoke and it's smooth.
It's not harsh at all. Great flavor. It's a winner at the moment. It's
**Pagoda:** interesting, a lot of, uh, the flavor for me is just sticking around in the front of my mouth. So it's
**Gizmo:** uh, you know, I agree with you on that
**Pagoda:** and I'm surprised like it's, you know, but yet the finish is not dry. Right? Because typically if you'll have something which in the front of your mouth, what ends up happening in the back of your mouth is.
End up being a bit dry, but this is not, this is great.
**Rooster:** It's not a very linear cigar.
**Gizmo:** It's as I would say, wow. Fancy. Wow. Look at Rooster. He's so refined.
**Bam Bam:** This guy. Look at this guy. Very
**Gizmo:** refined.
**Senator:** Just put your pinky out when you say that. Correct. He's
**Gizmo:** not
**Rooster:** a very
**Gizmo:** linear cigar.
**Rooster:** Learned that from the Davidoff Presentations.
**Bam Bam:** Wow. Yeah. The yamas presentation. Remember that? That was good. Yeah. [00:31:00]
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So boys, let's try our pairing tonight. We have 18 year age doers, which I think is probably one of the most accessible 18 year age scotches out there. Yeah. We're on the Amtrak right now. We are. And I gotta say it's pretty damn good.
It's good. I don't think that's bad at all. My, I'm drinking mine meat. I have no, I have no ice in mind. None. I don't think anyone here does. It's
**Senator:** not bad. The first sip I, I didn't hate, but I didn't love, I, I'm on, I don't know, probably my third sip at this point. It, it's getting, it's getting better. It's growing on me a little bit.
Just like the cigar.
**Bam Bam:** It's opening up. It's true. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Pagoda, what do you think of it? Yeah,
**Pagoda:** the same. Um. It's not bad actually. You know, it's, uh, it's very
**Bam Bam:** drinkable.
**Rooster:** Doesn't sound convincing.
**Pagoda:** But the only thing is I'm debating whether I should put a cube of ice because I think it feels a bit warm. Like typically I, when I get a lot of flavor from a single malt, I'm fine with it without a cube of ice.
But I don't know if [00:32:00] I don't know what's up, think I don't, when
**Rooster:** the, when the sentence begins with the word not bad.
**Pagoda:** It's not bad. Maybe, maybe you just need a sploosh. You know what, it's really interesting. I do need a sploosh of soda with a cube of eyes. Oh boy. Hey, by the way, I, I, I'm kidding. But I would just, uh, you know, I just picked up, uh, to read a little bit in Doers, you know, when we were trying to, uh, read a little bit about the history, and it says, I think in 1892 or something, uh, one of the, uh, Doers guys goes, goes to a bar and he gets, um, do is with, uh.
Soda and ice, and it's called Highball. Highball.
**Bam Bam:** I, that's
**Senator:** a high ball. They claim this guy invented the highball.
**Gizmo:** I've never had a highball not right. It's actually he's
**Senator:** the founder of Dewar's
**Gizmo:** son. Ah. So what do we know about doers? That's the big question. We, so this is the second Dewar's we've done, we, we did Dewar's 15, I think it was on episode in the forties or something.
Yep. I'll recall it before, uh, you know, after we [00:33:00] do our ratings tonight. So this is the second one we've done. Mm-Hmm. And what I like about it is that it's a $70 spirit. Yeah. For eighteen-year-age, spirit. I mean, how much is, are some of the other, uh, single malts? I mean, they get pretty
**Senator:** damn price. 18 year for single malt.
That's a 200 and something dollars, $300 bottle
**Gizmo:** even So for 70
**Bam Bam:** bucks it's drinking really well, you know, and the name Dewar's kind of in your mind, places it in a certain class. But I think for what it is, it's a, it's a good drink.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, very accessible. Yeah. So what do we know about the history of Dewar Senator?
So, like,
**Senator:** Pagoda was starting with, I mean, it's kind of a, it starts with a whole family story. It was founded by a guy named John Dewar in 18 forty-six in the 1880s. Uh, John Dewar passed the business along to his two sons, John Alexander and Tommy. Um, what's interesting actually, is. They, the two sons, when they started marketing doers much more broadly around the world, uh, they built the brand's Aberfelty Distillery in 18 ninety-eight.
So they [00:34:00] also own
**Gizmo:** Aberfelty, which we've done on the podcast. Oh, we did that on the podcast. Yeah. I had never known
**Bam Bam:** that. And we love that spirit. It
**Senator:** was good. Yeah. Something interesting about their, their kind of distilling process. They claim that, uh, they aged their scotch twice, once before blending and once after blending.
Hmm. Which typically it's aged just after blending. So, uh, they claim their double aging process allows for a more balanced whiskey. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but, so they must be
**Bam Bam:** transferring it from one barrel to another after they make the blend. Yeah.
**Senator:** Yeah. Tommy Dewar, one of the sons, like Pagoda was saying, they say, you know, he claims to have invented the original highball made with whiskey, soda and ice while he was visiting New York actually.
Um, Doers proclaims itself as the world's most awarded blended Scotch whiskey. By who? That that's exactly the question. Um, they've meddled three times in the Twenty-Nineteen, international Whiskey competition, whatever [00:35:00] that's supposed to mean. Um, doers. Um. It's funny, the, I will say the Suns are clearly very good marketers because I mean, number one, the fact that today this brand is literally everywhere, they deserve credit for it.
But this guy was very clever. Tommy Dewar in particular, uh, in getting this into like big, um, kind of stately functions, the White House. In with the Queen, really? In England. So apparently in 1891, um, Tommy Dewar sent an 18 gallon cask of Dewar's as a gift to the White House for then President Benjamin Harrison.
And, uh, apparently this sparked a huge amount of, uh, anger and frustration among the American whiskey market because they're like, this is America. Why are you sending us a blended scotch to the White House? We should be supplying whiskey. Uh, we should be supplying bourbon, um, from Kentucky. So, well, you didn't think of it.
**Bam Bam:** You sno you lose Exactly. You didn't think
**Pagoda:** of it. You snoo you lose. No, but then there would ask a president to pay. Right. It wouldn't be a gift.
**Senator:** Um, and [00:36:00] then Tommy Dewar stopped in the UK in 1893 and convinced Queen Victoria to grant a royal warrant to the Dewar's brand there. So this guy's just like a brilliant marketer.
Oh yeah. I mean, I have to give him credit.
**Gizmo:** Um, what is a, a Royal warrant? I. What does that do? Oh, don't you know what
**Pagoda:** a Royal Warrant is? No, I didn't
**Gizmo:** study up on that. I, I have no idea. Arch didn't you spend a lot of time living in England? He lived
**Pagoda:** in England. I did,
**Bam Bam:** but I still have no idea.
**Senator:** I mean, I think it's really just a bunch of BS to basically say that this is like a preferred brand of the Crown, basically.
I see. Um, and it says that Dewars was the first blended Scotch to receive that endorsement from Nice. The, the Crown. Hmm.
**Gizmo:** Wow. Not
**Pagoda:** my Johnny Black. Mm-Hmm.
**Rooster:** You know, I'm, I'm looking at the bottle. The bottle
**Gizmo:** looks like a bottle of wine. It does, yeah. Good point. It's dark. Yes. And it comes in a, its opaque. It comes in like a tin, a square tin box that's maroon.
It looks nothing like the bottle. And like you said, when you pull it out, it kind of does look like a bottle of wine. Very, [00:37:00] very simple, very classic kinda looking label. Looks like something from the 18 hundreds. They certainly haven't updated it in quite some time. So this is 40% alcohol, so it's 80 proof drinks like that.
They say it's blended from old and rare Highland, Speyside and lowland, single malts and green whiskies, each of which at is at least 18 years old. So that's cool that it's not a blend to create D-Eighteen. It's like everything is at least 18 years old that's entering. Yeah, this drink once combined, they're allowed to marry together in oak casks for many months.
So that's how they describe the, any, any flavor notes. The, unfortunately there's no flavor notes on this. I'm kind of bummed about that. Maybe
**Bam Bam:** on the box. Lemme check Wally's looking for that. I have to say if this, I mean, I don't ever ask for a doers, but I will drink this moving forward. It's actually quite nice.
Little caramel, little vanilla. Yeah, but
**Pagoda:** wouldn't you have like a Chivas 18?
**Bam Bam:** Oh no, not
**Gizmo:** me. No. I would drink [00:38:00] this over Chivas anytime.
**Bam Bam:** Oh, hell yeah. Oh really? Well, you especially,
**Gizmo:** that wasn't a good night boys. For any listener who's not, uh, initiated, go back to the episode where we review Chivas. And the boys tell a nice story of, uh, it's episode five.
That's a long time ago. Yeah. All right. I found the flavor notes on the box. Bam. Good call. Uh, like I said, this is like a tin container. This comes in tin box. So the flavor notes are as follows, rich fruit, marzipan and dark chocolate. The unique double aging and blending process of Dewar's 18 creates an unusual smoothness and delicate flavor.
We call these quote unquote flavor notes. So I guess they invented flavor notes as well. I'm sorry. Dark
**Senator:** chocolate is outrageous. Yeah, not accurate. There's no dark chocolate,
**Bam Bam:** deep fruit. I can see that. And for me, a little caramel and
**Gizmo:** vanilla. I don't even know what marzipan is. So. Um, roo Rooster can tell you what is Marzipan?
No [00:39:00] idea. He was so sophisticated today. I thought this, I put this on a platter for him. The, the pinkies
**Bam Bam:** up and all.
**Senator:** I was trying to figure out, I assume that Diageo owned them, but it says, uh, Diageo used to own Dewers and in 19 ninety-eight, they sold it to Bacardi, who actually now owns and manufactures Dewers and Troutland.
Interesting.
**Gizmo:** It's amazing how these old brands just get passed around these Yeah. Massive conglomerates like this, you know. Yeah. I, I guess probably once you get to the third or fourth generation, it kind of, everything runs out on passion for the family business. Time to cash out, time to cash out. Pretty common thing, you know?
Yeah. You say a lot of businesses start to fail out in the third, third and fourth generation. Yeah, definitely The third, I, uh, I am finding this to be an incredibly slow smoke. A very slow smoke. Like almost intimidating, slow, like I, you know, we're, we're 40 minutes in here and. Like this is way more of a commitment than I expected tonight.
Yeah. But I
**Bam Bam:** kind of like it. I kind of like it. You [00:40:00] like it? I, I do. Um, if you're gonna do one in the evening, maybe two. 'cause you want a richer experience than this, maybe following this. It's a great, it's, I think it's a great start.
**Gizmo:** I'll tell you there is no way that anyone from Cigar, Aficionado smoked the whole thing is sitting down.
Oh no. And smoking this whole thing. There's no, there's no chance in hell that that's happening. They take a puff or two and they're done. You really think they're sitting around for two and a half hours smoking this thing? No way. I'm sure they are.
**Pagoda:** Fuck. I don't
**Gizmo:** know.
**Senator:** Marvin's
**Gizmo:** got a lot of time. A lot of time.
Free time. So boys, we have another update on the FDA issue with the premium cigars. They have filed an appeal with Judge Mehta. There are two key arguments, uh, made in the brief in support of reversing Mehta's decision number one. The FDA reasonably concluded that there's no public health justification for leaving premium cigars entirely [00:41:00] unregulated.
And also if the court were to find the deeming decision in insufficiently reasoned, I'm not an attorney with respect to premium cigars. The proper remedy would be remand without. Vacator. What does that mean?
**Bam Bam:** Are you pronouncing that correctly? He's no idea. Vacator.
**Gizmo:** I have no idea. Vacator, vacator. Vacator. I have no idea. You gotta call the resident
**Bam Bam:** attorney. Get him
**Gizmo:** in here.
**Senator:** Oh man. We're gonna need a legal analyst every
**Gizmo:** five episodes for this. So it was originally, they had presented that 3.8% percent of the 6,700 youth surveyed, uh, representing the original push to regulate premium cigars.
3.8% of those youth said that they smoked a premium cigar brand in the last 30 days. And as noted by the plaintiffs and MATA who won the case, originally it was actually [00:42:00] 4% of youth who had smoked any cigar, not just premium. So we're talking about anything you could find in a gas station being included in the last 30 days.
So that's my favorite. We're talking about less
**Rooster:** than 4%. Yeah. I mean, come on.
**Senator:** That's ridiculous. And not smoking. What? We're smoking. Smoking a premium cigar. Just smoking anything. A, you know, gas station, a Philly, Blonde at a gas station would be included in that blueberry.
**Gizmo:** So that's really the issue here is that they're distorting the truth about what youth are actually smoking.
You know, it, it's like they're arguing that the study fully supports the FDA's determination that quote, youth and young adults are actively using premium cigars and it's just terribly unfortunate. Sure. It's, that's just a patent lie. Like where are they getting premium hand-rolled cigars. It's just not happening.
I mean, at a liquor store, you think they're not carting kids. At a gas station, they're buying garbage. [00:43:00] There's no, forget carding kids, kids don't wanna smoke this stuff. No, no, they don't. They don't wanna pay $25 for this. I don't
**Senator:** care if it was $2. There's no child that is gonna enjoy the taste of a cigar that it does not, you know, have a palate that can appreciate Tobacco heavily.
And then, you know, some of those other notes that come with it, these are kids that buy flavored crap, uh, crap. Like bands talking about, yeah. Blueberry this and That's right. It's a totally different experience. And where
**Pagoda:** do they have the time to sit for two and a half hours? They don't. They don't.
**Bam Bam:** Exactly.
Right.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's just a massive overreach. And I don't understand the FDA's logic. Well, if they has an agenda
**Bam Bam:** to continue pushing this and they'll continue because they have the agenda. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I think they're just trying to empty the coffers of these premium cigar manufacturers who fund the premium cigar association, who, uh, you know, who funds CAA, who fund other, you know, lobbyist groups to try to.
Do the right thing in Washington. But I mean, yeah, I mean the, the biggest
**Senator:** thing, honestly, I mean this is every policy battle, but it's especially true here. It's a [00:44:00] lack of just understanding and education. I mean, if you don't smoke cigars, you wouldn't know, right? Like what you would assume that a cigar is this Tasty wonderful thing that a kid would love to get their hands on.
If you've actually smoked a cigar, you would quickly know that there's no child that is pursuing the flavor. That you get out of a natural tobacco product, right. That is not altered with a bunch of, you know, artificial flavoring and stuff like that. Right. That's in non-premium cigars. So I think, you know, that's why the work that these trade associations do is so important because it's just getting folks who don't actually know this product have never smoked this product to understand what it really is and how it's completely different from the crap that they're lumping it in with.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. And it's like you said, there's a commitment of time, but this requires the, the cigar habit and hobby requires an, it takes time to acquire the taste of a cigar. It does. And you have to learn how to smoke that cigar. Kids aren't putting that time in. Correct. It's just,
**Senator:** it's not in their realm. Like for the same reason that no child is pursuing single malt whiskey.
Right. Right. Like there's no way that they can [00:45:00] appreciate that. Right. They're just pursuing some cheap, uh, cheap crap that they can mix with soda so that it tastes palatable for them. They're not drinking straight, you know, almost anything that they're gonna enjoy. Where
**Pagoda:** would that leave hookahs? It's a great question.
That's a good question. Right? Because a lot of the kids, uh, tend to smoke it. You inhale it and it's a tobacco, uh, product. Although, you know, you mentioned blueberry earlier, blueberry mint in a hookah is, it's excellent,
**Bam Bam:** fantastic watermelon's, great watermelon, min watermelon. Yeah, it's fantastic. But you are truly inhaling a hookah.
Yeah, we don't,
**Gizmo:** you know, and that's the thing too that I think is really important to note, and we all know this, but you don't even inhale cigars.
**Bam Bam:** And I think it goes back to what Senator said, it's a lack of education and understanding of the product. And
**Gizmo:** really, and what bothers me about it is now is this the, the first appeal.
They've been fighting this for years. Like, how have they not taken the time to be educated on it and say, you know what? Let's carve this out and let's focus on the real problems, which clearly number one is the vape product, which is actively being marketed to kids, to the point that they got Juul shut down.
Yeah. Juul can't [00:46:00] even make products anymore and sell them in the United States.
**Senator:** I, I will say this, I'm sorry I, it's not actively marketed to kids anymore. I. It's really not the reason I say that the entire industry voluntarily came out and said that they support raising the smoking age to do everything possible to keep it outta its hands.
And I think that that's a genuine move in the sense that like they know without that they're gonna cease to exist. Sure. So like, I do believe that they want that in the hand. At this point, I'm not saying how it started. I was the wild west when it started, but at this point, that's their only lifeline is if they can keep it outta kids' hands and just aggressively mark it to adults.
But it's a, it's a challenging situation, but kids are using Juul. They are. Sure they are. And that's the thing, just the same way as kids get their hand on alcohol, even though the drinking age is twenty-one. Right. Like they're gonna find ways to get their hands on these things. And so it's just how do you create sufficient barriers that.
It's a very small percentage of kids. Mm-Hmm. That somehow are able to procure this through people who obviously
**Gizmo:** are of age. Right. Yeah. Also, the fact that it's, it's, you [00:47:00] know, it's like a USB
**Rooster:** size cartridge. Yeah. And it's very undetectable.
**Gizmo:** It's very easy to smoke it
**Rooster:** anywhere. Yeah. And there's, there's, there's really no smoke, right.
I mean, it's
**Gizmo:** just vapor. There is, there are small, some of them you get, it really puts out water, but you don't smell it. You don't?
**Senator:** Oh, well, most of it's flavored. You do smell it. I mean, have you ever been in a room where like someone randomly just pulls out a vape and just like, indoors just starts like, you know, just they need a, but they take like one puff or two puffs, but you smell the flavor.
I mean, I immediately, I'll be like, oh wow. Well that's cherry. Or whatever the case is. You just get like a quick whiff and then it just, like this,
**Bam Bam:** I yell at people when they pull a vape out. You do.
**Gizmo:** In my presence, I Are they scared? Well, for me it's
**Senator:** like, if you're gonna pull a vape out, then let me pull my cigar out and let's see how, you know, let's see how goes, let see if you're okay
**Gizmo:** with that.
It's awful. It's awful. The one thing I will say is my daughter showed me, you know, when we're talking about actively marketing the kids, she was showing me on Tik-Tok the other day. That there was an ad that popped up for a vape product. It was by a bad actor. It's not by one of these primary brands that you're discussing, but there are a lot of [00:48:00] bad actors in the space.
And they were manufacturing a vape for kids that looked exactly like an Expo marker that you would write on like a whiteboard with in school. So these kids could have it in their pocket. Wow. And it looks like a marker. Wow. For the whiteboard. And then D diabolical, it's you pop the top off. Yeah. And lemme tell you, it has the full Expo branding on it.
Like it's legit. And they're actively saying to kids, you can cash app us, Venmo us, whatever. We'll send it to your house. Discrete packaging. Tell us what day you want it to arrive so you know that you can intercept it from your parents. Unbelievable. This is, these are the things that the FDA should be policing.
**Senator:** Yeah. These people should be in jail. I'm sorry. I agree. Absolutely.
**Gizmo:** And even TikTok should be policing. I agree. It's a social media problem too. And we don't need to, you know, that's a whole other argument. Right. But you're right. I mean, it's like. It's why are they going after Carlito Fuente or Lito Gomez or the Cigar We're smoking Tiner or Hey, Padron or Rocky.
Any, any of these guys misdirected. It [00:49:00] makes no sense. No. So we'll see what happens. Now, Senator, here's a good question for you. Uh, for someone who's, uh, in this space a little, little bit, and we've talked about this before, how long does an appeal like this last? Is this another two, three years? It could
**Senator:** easily be easily.
I mean, this entire case with the FDA has been going on for God knows how many years. And it's like appeal after appeal and you know, a favorable ruling and then an unfavorable ruling from an appellate court. I mean, it's insane. It's good. Its literally go on forever. Seven,
**Bam Bam:** eight years. It's
**Pagoda:** been Well, it keeps a lot of people employing.
**Senator:** That's true now. Yeah. The lawyers are loving
**Gizmo:** it. Sure. How much did, did we hear, how much are they spending a year on this? Uh, I think
**Senator:** when I met with, um, the president of CAA, it was something like, it was a few million a year.
**Gizmo:** Mm-Hmm. And that's just CAA That's not premium cigar as well. Correct. Yeah. Who's also another group doing this.
Yeah.
**Senator:** Wow. CAA is the primary funder in case That's the big one. Yeah. The case. They're the, they're the lead plaintiff.
**Gizmo:** So boys, I gotta say this pairing, uh, is picking up quite a bit. So as we were talking, I was just kind of pinching my cigar a little bit [00:50:00] and I think I released some sort of tight area in it.
And now my draw is like, Obscenely good. You, like I am getting so much smoke out. He pulled a
**Bam Bam:** gizmo on a cigar and it worked. You are,
**Gizmo:** have you noticed how smooth the wrapper is? Yeah. Yeah. It's really well constructed, right. Burn's been great. It's burning very slowly. I mean, obviously it's a, a merit to the construction of the cigar and there's clearly a lot of tobacco in this.
But I mean this, there's a lot of value
**Bam Bam:** here. You're a cigar whisperer. Ooh. Can massage that cigar right the way you want it.
**Gizmo:** Come over here. Bam. I'll show you what I got. I can't wait.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. You're the one.
**Bam Bam:** Do you have direct experience?
**Gizmo:** Especially what I remember of the Doers 15, which is like you said, Bam, it's long time ago, I think 80 episodes ago or so.
I'm finding this to be much different than my memory of the 15. Me too. I, I, I, I don't remember being able to drink that without a chip of ice. Mm-Hmm. I'm really much, I'm really enjoying this without, [00:51:00] without anything very, you know, very nice. I like the pairing. I think it's,
**Bam Bam:** it's a pretty
**Gizmo:** rich, flavorful pairing.
Can you taste the marzipan? I do taste the marzipan. Yes. Thank you for asking.
**Bam Bam:** Is it marzipan a jam of some kind?
**Gizmo:** It's actually, I think confectionary sugar.
**Rooster:** Sugar marzipan. Okay. Kind of a confectionary sugar with the hints of honey and, uh, like
**Senator:** caramel. I, I do agree on the pairing. I, I think the big thing, this being a blended, um, Scotch, which is more balanced and not aggressive in any way with this cigar that is, you know, still mild, medium, neither is fighting with the other, which is why it works.
I think with the more aggressive spirit, this, you'd totally lose the cigar. It would unmuscle
**Bam Bam:** the cigar.
**Gizmo:** Sure. You know, I kept saying single malt scotch. This is very much not a single malt scotch. No, no. You should have corrected me. You guys should have yelled at me. That was dumb. This is a blended scotch.
Eighteen-year-old. Wait till the end of the episode to yell at you. We, we
**Senator:** wait for an accountability hour to correct. [00:52:00]
**Bam Bam:** I, I wouldn't mind a refill, honestly. And go for another, pass it. I'll pass it, right? Yeah. So the profile hasn't changed at all. Right? It's still very consistent from when it began. It's, it's,
**Gizmo:** it's a bit boring.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. You've said that, don't you think? I don't know. I, I, I, I like what I'm getting. I just want, want to keep getting it.
**Senator:** It's a bit, but it's, I wouldn't, it's not boring.
**Gizmo:** It hasn't
**Rooster:** changed much. Uh, like I was expecting a change. Mm-Hmm. To me it's, it's like closer to mild than even
**Gizmo:** medium. I just think the flavor profile for me is simple.
I, I don't think it's as intriguing as it was when we first started smoking the cigar. When we're talking about that butteriness like that, the, the merits of that have kind of worn off for me. And I don't get the hype about the cigar at this point. I don't either. It's not a bad cigar by any means, but No, it's not.
**Rooster:** But. The way that it's hyped. Like it's [00:53:00] something like amazing and it's,
**Gizmo:** well,
**Bam Bam:** I think the more people that can smoke a cigar and finish a cigar completely and enjoy it from beginning to end is something that people want to continue to experience.
**Pagoda:** You know, it's really
**Bam Bam:** interesting. That's the majority of cigar smokers.
I think we pursue other things, sorry, that are more complex, you know, to each
**Pagoda:** his own. Now I keep asking a lot of the guys, what is it that you're seeking in a cigar? And it really comes down to, you know, um, I. Essentially the smoke ability of it, the combustion, you know, if they're able to go and have a really good draw, have a really good combustion and good flavor, and it's, and it's reasonably pleasant in their mouth, they're fine with it.
They don't even over-evaluate. So, you know, from that perspective, I could see why people could be reaching for a cigar like this because it's reasonably pleasant. It's uh, great combustion, great construction, but
**Rooster:** there's a lot of cigars that are reasonably pleasant. That's true. But for a cigar that's like this hyped.
Yeah. You know, I kind expect a little bit more out of [00:54:00] it.
**Pagoda:** I think it could be a demand-supply situation for this.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. The other thing I wondered too is, you know, you're talking about them making 6 million, 6 million cigars a year. Right? They're obviously making very few of these. So let's say you're a regular LaFleur Dominicanos smoker.
You love the Marca, you smoke the double Liharros, you smoke the Liharros, you smoke the Chisels, and then you want to go for their premium top-of-the-line cigar. This and illusion bowl so hard to get, you get your hands on 'em. If you're smoking double the harrows every day from the four Dominican and you pull this out, this won't move the needle for you.
This is like, no, this is like tissue-painting cardboard. Exactly.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. For that, for
**Gizmo:** that person, for that person that loves the brand's, it's, so, what's interesting to me is that they didn't put a cigar together that kind of elevates that person. Like for, like, for us, I'm gonna make the comparison, we always use patrol, right?
We smoke an exclusivo every day. We throw, uh, one of the 1920 sixes in an 80th maybe, or one of the family reserves every once [00:55:00] in a while, or a hammer for, and then, and then you throw in the hammer. That kind of top-of-the-line, special occasion cigar. It's kind of like, it's not good, better, best. They're all great, but it's like levels of complexity and refinement and, and, and, and they're taking you on a journey as, as a, as a, a smoker who's kind of dedicated yourself to the market, right?
With this. This is a step down from any cigar that ha is heavy on Lijero or double Lijero. It's a different
**Bam Bam:** marker. Right? Padrone has that cadence in their Vitolas. I don't think this marker has that, right? They're very, very high. No, but
**Pagoda:** it's like comparing a Maduro with a natural. I like, I, I don't buy into that argument from that perspective.
I, I just think that, you know, you have the natural line and you have a Maduro line, and if you are going progressively or further into the Maduro line, then you can't just go pick up a natural and say, Hey, this is great. Um, I, I think this is, yeah, more like [00:56:00] very, yeah. Uh, the double Lijeros, you know, they obviously pack a punch.
I've, I've had one of them for sure. Uh, at Carnegie, by the way. Um. Yeah. This is, this is really on the really mild to medium, I think more on the milder side as well.
**Senator:** Agreed. Yeah. I have to say, uh, as I'm smoking this more, I, I now think I've come around to agree with Rooster. It, it is, it is a bit boring at this point.
I think halfway through is when you get bored with the cigar because the thing is like, you know, this goes to my point early on, none of the flavor notes just really linger enough to make me excited and, you know, want to keep drawing on the cigar and, and pursue something that I'm getting that is unique or, or memorable.
I think it's just everything is there in a very light, faint way. And, um, it never, at least not yet, it, it still hasn't picked up. No. And so I'm just waiting for something more. Yeah. And it may
**Bam Bam:** pick
**Gizmo:** up toward the end. Yeah. I mean, if
**Rooster:** I ask you like, what kind of notes have you
**Gizmo:** been getting? [00:57:00] What would you say?
The thing that's primary for me right now is I'm getting like a tanginess to like, it's almost like, um. Sour milk. Yeah. Like not sour milk, but there is a sour component of like a tang that I'm getting.
**Senator:** That's honestly, it's in a lot of Davidoff cigars. The note that you're describing. Yeah.
**Pagoda:** But this is more like, you know, I
**Gizmo:** was thinking about it, it's like sour cream or something.
Yes. It's like something
**Pagoda:** like that. I don't know. For me it's like, it's not, you know how I use the word marmalade-ish. Which is, you know, like um, orange rind or something. Right. This is giving me a little bit of citrus with bitterness. A slight bitterness. I don't know. It's a flat. Bitterness very mild, but there is that citrusy bitterness.
I don't know. I think that could
**Bam Bam:** correlate to the
**Gizmo:** tanginess that you're saying. We might be saying the same thing, just differently, but that's the primary thing I'm getting now. That's exactly what I'm getting. And it's kind of come in around this halfway point. It's just started maybe five minutes ago.
Yeah. Yeah. That I'm really getting it and it's overpowered all that [00:58:00] butteriness that I was enjoying about the first part of the cigar. Like it's just, I don't know. It's, it's taken a turn for me. But it's not gotten more complex or interesting. It's just kind of, it's consistent. Yeah. Yeah.
It's
**Bam Bam:** kind of, it's a single note, right?
It's one note.
**Senator:** Yeah. What I'm, I'm kind of missing. There was a point in the cigar maybe when, I guess I first hit the second third where I was getting like a sweet and salty note that I liked that I feel like you get in some Cuban cigars, but it was very short-lived, where now I'm getting exactly what, you know, Giz and Pagoda are describing, and I've
**Gizmo:** lost that.
I think that's what
**Rooster:** Pagoda was mentioning, like you get the flavor notes on the. The end of your tongue, and that's the salty right in the front, right in receptors of your tongue are right in the front. And that's what you're getting.
**Pagoda:** And, and then yeah, there's no, there's no finish. Like it doesn't Right.
It's really weird. It's a
**Bam Bam:** short, yeah. The finish is, is short,
**Pagoda:** very short.
**Bam Bam:** Mm-Hmm. But honestly, it's still for me, creamy and fairly elegant,
**Pagoda:** but it's, yeah. But it's short but not dry. Still [00:59:00] smoking elegant.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Senator:** It's, it's, this just goes to my point that I, I really wish that this existed in a smaller format because I agree, you know, halfway through.
I would've been done with this already as a Corona, and I know it would've, I would've rated it higher than what I probably will if this stays as it is right now. Mm-Hmm. Like the, the, the longevity for a cigar like this to really keep your interest. I mean, it's gotta to rooster's point, like it's gotta do something different and unique and interesting and.
Given how straightforward I think the flavor notes are in a short format, straight forward is fine. Right? You're only gonna invest 45 minutes in that cigar, but for two hours you really need
**Bam Bam:** more. How, how, how far
**Senator:** are we in on this? Hold on. What is going on with Gizmo
**Gizmo:** Cigar? So, boy, I am experiencing a complete unraveling of the wrapper.
**Bam Bam:** You're gizmo in your cigar. Doing it has completely come apart. You're, you're massaging it too much. Uh, whatcha doing?
**Gizmo:** It might have been an over massage.
**Pagoda:** That that might have been deep tissue right there. This was a deep tissue. You
**Bam Bam:** know, by the way, the [01:00:00] cigar is not a gadget. Okay.
**Gizmo:** No. I mean, it's definitely like, look at it.
It's unraveled. Yeah. It's completely unraveled. I almost wanna take the wrapper off at this point. Um, wow. I
**Pagoda:** know what you're thinking. You're, you're gonna go and all the way inside to look for the li-hero leaf. Why don't you just
**Gizmo:** light another one the
**Bam Bam:** entire No. So for the listener, gizmos entire wrapper came off perfectly clean.
In one piece. In one piece. That is This very
**Gizmo:** odd. Yeah. So now I'm smoking the binder. I'll let you know how it is.
**Bam Bam:** Oh boy.
**Gizmo:** That should not happen. That is the first time I've ever had that happen on the podcast. Yeah, that's true. Twenty-sixteen Cigar of the Year boys. It's a
**Rooster:** result of over-massaging a cigar.
**Gizmo:** That's right. Should do an accountability hour on that. How's the binder binder's really delicious. I'm actually really enjoying.
No, uh, it's a weird texture. I don't like the texture on my mouth. [01:01:00] Um, yeah, I'm not thrilled right now. Be honest. You don't like that? No, I don't Like don't take it too deep. No, no more massaging for me. All right, so boys, we have another interesting launch of a cigar, and I bring this up because a couple of the guys in the room I think are fans of Peter James.
Uh, they're the case. Yes. It's been announced that Luciano Cigars and Peter James are. Teaming up for a new line of cigars. Who is Luciano? I don't know,
**Bam Bam:** but I will never, I've never heard of them. I will never smoke that cigar and I won't ever smoke a Peter James cigar. Sorry.
**Senator:** Aren't they, aren't
**Gizmo:** they in the top 10 this year?
No, they were number 19 this year. Luciano. Okay. Top 20. Uh, yeah, they were in the top 20. They, they're cigar that made the number 19. It's called the foreign Affair by Luciano Cigars. It's a Corona forty-two ring gauge by a little under six inches long. It's Nicaraguan made. Uh, and the binder is Ecuadorian and Nicaraguan wrapper.
Ecuadorian. [01:02:00] And the filler is Costa, Rica, Dominican, Republic, and Nicaragua. So, Pagode, you've been to almost all of those countries except Nicaragua in the last six weeks, correct?
**Bam Bam:** Hey, I, I think this,
**Gizmo:** I think this cigar, this cigar's gonna be very
**Pagoda:** leathery. Not
**Gizmo:** so it looks like Peter James is gonna be making a cigar line with them.
And the reason why I bring it up is that because we've had some interesting experiences with Peter James,
**Bam Bam:** uh, cases. Yeah. On the newer cases. Uh, I guess overall you've all
**Gizmo:** been disappointed. Yeah. Uh, so Senator and I ordered, that's quite, quite a while ago, right? Yeah. Was it around Black Friday or something like that?
Yeah, they had a sale. It was like a Black Friday sale or like pre-Christmas sale. And, uh, Senator and I ordered some cases and they showed up and they were definitely not to the quality that we were expecting. Mm. The honestly the worst
**Senator:** quality leather I have felt on a cigar case, period. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** You said that.
And that's including like we have Amazon cases that we've purchased that are leather, that are pretty good, right? I mean, what, what do you, which one do you have? [01:03:00] I'll take that back. I have, um, a
**Senator:** cigar dagger case. Um, it's this company that they only make accessories. It's like a really nice, soft, supple, uh, like pebble leather.
And um, the case was like half the price of what that Peter James retails for. Obviously we got it at a deal then Way better. Yeah. Really not even no comparison. Interesting.
**Gizmo:** So how much
**Pagoda:** and half of that price is what I bought on Amazon.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And Pagoda bought one on Amazon that he is now lost. This was like
**Senator:** maybe one 60 or 180.
**Gizmo:** Okay. So the Peter James I think retailed for like 400. Right? Exactly. Or three 50, the one that we got. Yeah. And both Senator and I got them in and they were not great. Yeah, I think the quality certainly versus the one that you have Bam is changed quite a bit.
**Bam Bam:** I have an original series from years and years ago and
**Senator:** that's when they made really great leather.
It's really
**Gizmo:** quite nice. They were also made in Italy?
**Bam Bam:** Yes. Right. At that time. I'm not sure
**Senator:** where they manufactured made in China. Now they're made in Secaucus. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So, and [01:04:00] then, you know, the other experience I think we should talk about, just as a forewarning to any listener out there is Senator and I both had a really rough experience returning those cases. We did it almost immediately. He and I both got them the same day. 'cause we ordered them the same day. We got them in, we had the conversation on the group chat saying, Hey, we're gonna return these things.
And then Senator goes to discover that what it was 3, 4, 5 weeks after they were delivered, neither of us
**Senator:** had gotten, oh, at least four or five weeks. And I just randomly, I was sitting, sitting down and I was like, oh, you know, I don't recall seeing a refund. Let me just make sure that Peter James, you know, gave me my a refund.
'cause I know they got the case, you know, within days. And, uh, I, there was no refund. I sent them an email, you know, it's been over a month, you have the case, can you, you know, process the refund? Got no response. They like ghosted me for, I don't know, a week or two. So I, at that point, disputed the charge, how else am I gonna get the refund?
And then finally, these idiots sent me a note maybe. A week after I had already disputed it and we're like, oh, we don't keep any [01:05:00] credit card information from transactions, so you need to give us your credit card number. And I'm sitting there like, I'm gonna email these people my credit card number. They can't process a refund.
When they charged me in the first place, I'm, I mean, the whole thing was just so silly. And Giz had the exact same experience where he didn't get a refund either. He had to dispute it just like I did. And I never heard
**Gizmo:** from them by the way you heard from them. Oh, wow. And he didn't even get a response from, I never even got a response from my email.
Email. And I called them too. Wow.
**Senator:** And then the wild thing is just the other night when we were sitting in our lounge, I was talking to another guy, um, actually, um, lizard Bruce, and he ordered a case from them. Had a problem with it. He looked up, there's like a lifetime warranty that guarantees the craftsmanship of these cases.
He emailed them and they were like, no, we're not gonna replace. And he didn't even want a refund. He said, I just want you to replace this with a new case. And he had just bought it because there was some manufacturing defect. And they were like, no, we're not gonna replace it. I mean, how shady is that? He's not even asking for his money back.
He just wants a proper case.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Did we just lose a sponsor?[01:06:00]
So, yeah, we, uh, we hadn't shared that yet because both of us, I think were hoping for a better relu, a resolution than what happened. But Did you return your cases? We, oh yeah. I sent them back. They had it back in two days from what I received them. Okay. Returned them right away. Right back. Yep. And, uh, yeah.
I, I still have never even heard from them. I just, I disputed. So you have not
**Rooster:** gotten a refund or
**Gizmo:** did you dispute the charges? Charges? I disputed with AMEX. I after, by the way, I gave them two or three weeks after calling and emailing. He, uh, Senator got a response. I never got a response at all. That's awful.
From my call or my email, I had to dispute it. Oh, totally unacceptable. That's not cool, man. You know, and, and that by the way is with, what was it, 40% off? Mm-Hmm. Right. If I paid three or $400 for that same case, I'd be pissed. I would've been furious. Sure. Yep. Because it's like we're trying to do the right thing and, and like support a company as opposed to going on Amazon.
Right, right. So my number one is still Sotolo. I I love Manny Sotolo. Listen to the [01:07:00] podcast. He makes great cases. Yeah. We all have Sotolos. We all use them. We love him. So that's main, you know, we maintain that is probably the highest recommendation. I know Senator also loves his Cigar Dagger. So how much was that again?
I think one
**Senator:** 60 or 180.
**Gizmo:** And where do you get that Cigardagger.com? There you go. That is a nice case.
**Bam Bam:** It is beautiful. Yeah. Just feel the letter. It's very reminiscent to the case. I have the old Peter
**Gizmo:** Jones. Yeah, it really is. And how many cigars do you guys hold in yours? Like five or six? Six. Six. I hold five.
All the, uh, accessories and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah.
**Senator:** So even the accessory slots, so like these little things, they sound so trivial, but they really are important. Mm-Hmm. Where some cases that I've looked at, um, certain lighters or certain cutters won't like perfectly fit in the little slots that they have for them.
Right. So it's really important that you, honestly, when you get a case, you try all these things out. 'cause even cases that I do regard as. Very well made and well constructed. I've had an issue fitting like a Dupont lighter, like the maxi jet, the big one, [01:08:00] um, in the, the slot that they have for it. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Rooster:** I didn't have an issue with the Peter James Case, like what
**Gizmo:** you guys are talking about. You know, you kept yours. Yeah, I did.
**Rooster:** Yeah. Um, only issue that I have, there's no like a slot for the cigars. So they're kind of like hitting against
**Gizmo:** each other. You mean there's,
**Bam Bam:** there is not an individual slug.
Right. Oh,
**Gizmo:** wow. You know, there, it's just, it's a different, it's a different type of pouch. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But it would
**Rooster:** be, it would be helpful if they were kind of like individual slots.
**Gizmo:** So the cigars are not rubbing against each other. Mm.
**Pagoda:** They do rub against each other in the boxes.
**Gizmo:** I'm just Yeah. You're, you're very, yeah.
But there's no movement. Well,
**Bam Bam:** there's no movement. Correct. That is
**Gizmo:** correct. In the soda load there, it's like he has this like, individual
**Bam Bam:** system. I have, I have my soda load tonight and I happen to love the way the cases are snugly held. I'm sorry, the cigars are snugly held. It really protects the eat cigar beautifully.
It's very different.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I need a sort of Yeah. Soda love. Just don't lose it. That's
**Gizmo:** my problem. [01:09:00] You need to, you need to invest in air tacks, Yeah. Exactly. Right. Because you've lost how many cases now? A couple.
**Pagoda:** It's not too bad.
**Senator:** Did you lose that like giant case that you
**Pagoda:** had ordered? No.
No, no. It's, it's,
**Bam Bam:** it's at home. I just Oh, yeah. Have it. Okay, good. It's like a mini bag. I
**Pagoda:** need a strap, shoulder strap on that.
**Bam Bam:** It's a man purse.
**Gizmo:** All right, so I guess back to the original intent of bringing this story up. So Luciano and Peter James are gonna make some cigars. They're gonna roll them in Esteli, Nicaragua Luciano is going to distribute the cigars, and I guess that they're going to, you know, Co-brand and probably release cases alongside cigars and Well, when did that, when did that news come out?
Recently? This news came out at the end of January. So a few weeks ago. Yeah. So if
**Bam Bam:** you, if I was on the site. A year ago. And, and Peter James does sell cigars. They have, I guess, their own line, no idea who makes it. So this, I guess, is a step
**Gizmo:** up from what they have in past. I would think so, yeah. Yeah. They probably just have like a house blend type thing.
Mm-Hmm. Probably. [01:10:00] Hmm. So boys, what are you thinking about the, uh, the Florida Minicana and illusion bull right now?
**Bam Bam:** Very, very consistent
**Pagoda:** and it has become very
**Bam Bam:** interesting. I'm just kidding. Well, no, it's the same. Like, I, I kind of, I agree with what you're saying. It's the same, it hasn't changed,
**Rooster:** but not very bullish on the cigar.
**Gizmo:** Well, uh,
**Bam Bam:** me neither. I'm still kind of liking it. I have no issues with this thing.
**Senator:** It's just Are you on the payroll BAM? Uh, no. I'm just shocked. Honestly, for me, there's just not enough flavor here. Yeah. It's,
**Bam Bam:** I like the creaminess. It's just smoking nicely. The retro Hale is great for me.
**Gizmo:** You guys should try smoking.
Just the binder in the filler. Take the wrapper off. Can I get your Exacto
**Bam Bam:** knife please?
**Gizmo:** It has a
**Senator:** Will that shave a half hour off the smoking time? Hold on. So I'm hold,
**Bam Bam:** no, hold on. You gotta massage the cigar for me to get it off. All right, give it over here. Alright,
**Gizmo:** here we go. It is. I, you know, I don't know if you guys have ever done this before.
I have not, uh, on purpose, but for the, uh, for the podcast, I will continue on, but I do not love the mouthfeel of this cigar right now. [01:11:00] We need to
**Bam Bam:** photograph that for the Gram account and get that posted. It's pretty bad. We don't give
**Pagoda:** up on cigars.
**Gizmo:** No. I'm gonna keep rolling baby. We're gonna do a legitimate rating on this podcast tonight for this cigar.
Oh boy.
**Bam Bam:** Not sounding good.
**Pagoda:** No wrapper binder. I'm into the fillers now.
**Gizmo:** It's very odd. But listen, I don't think the wrapper is doing that much of a, uh, it's not changing that much of the flavor and I'm still finding the same thing. It's, it's overwhelmingly tangy for me. Um, it's not complex at all. I'm, I'm, I'm definitely in board territory.
Is anyone else getting that
**Bam Bam:** Tang? 'cause I'm
**Senator:** not getting that a little bit. Not as much as Giz, but a little bit.
**Gizmo:** Okay. I'm
**Rooster:** kind of feeling like when I, when we had that octagon shaped cigar, what was that? Oh,
**Gizmo:** Placencia Alma Forte Never ending, you know, same
**Bam Bam:** note on your deck. On my deck. So it was like a two and a half hour cigar.
I got attacked by a raccoon.[01:12:00]
**Gizmo:** You panicked that day. Oh, I did. Bam. Does not like
**Bam Bam:** records. Dude, I, I leaped outta my chair. Bam.
**Senator:** Does not like animals. Oh, no. In the wild at all. Dude.
**Bam Bam:** I literally leaped out of the chair when
**Senator:** I saw this thing. When he's in Rooster's yard after dark, he, it's like, he's like there. His shoulder. Every five minutes he thinks there.
What was that sound? Is that a bear? And then we just mess him. We're like, yeah, I think there's a bear back there.
**Gizmo:** Remember we talked about a plan, like we're gonna Oh, a bear, a bear costume.
**Bam Bam:** How can I forget about this? Yeah. You know what? Oh my God, I
**Senator:** forgot. Oh, I mean, we were so deep down the rabbit hole. I was on Amazon looking at bear costumes to buy, just to wear it and hide in the woods in roosters, uh, backyard.
I don't know if
**Bam Bam:** I should take this as love or absolute ridicule.
**Gizmo:** It would be good content for the pile. That would've been
**Bam Bam:** scary for me. I'll never come to your house again.
**Senator:** I, I have never seen you jump out of a chair, dude. Like when that [01:13:00] raccoon was down the stairs was creeping up behind me. Yeah. And I was trying to hit the thing with a rock to just take it out.
**Pagoda:** And then Rooster went straight up to new chapter with a bare hands. No, I'm just kidding.
**Gizmo:** It was also like four in the morning. Oh really? It was, yeah, it was late. All right, boys, let's go to some listener email. We've had, uh, some really amazing, uh, emails come in from our listeners. Uh, this one is from Listener Alistair.
He says, hi. I've been listening to the podcast for the last few months, and I've gone back to catch up on most of them. I really enjoyed the Cuba episodes and love the general banter as opposed to the usual. Sit down, ask questions, review. Yawn yawn. In the UK we pay a premium, so he is from the uk. We pay a premium on cigars compared to you guys.
And it's harder now to get imports due to customs catching on and taxing the hell out of a box of cigars, making them dearer than you'd pay legitimately in the uk. And that is really unfortunate. Oh, oh sure. You know, obviously here, if you get caught by customs pagoda, [01:14:00] uh, they just take them, uh, and certainly if they ship them to your house and, and they get picked off, they just take them and hopefully the retailer has guaranteed your money.
But in places like the uk, places like Canada, most European nations, there's that VAT tax. And if they catch those cigars and they're not properly marked for vat, I mean they are going to. Bend you over on tax and it's significant. Like in Canada, I think it's dude,
**Senator:** sorry, but just all over Europe. It's insane what they do with the, the VAT tax.
Did you see this article recently? What Arnold Schwarzenegger dealt with? No. So Arnold Schwarzenegger, who's Austrian right, was flying through Austria with, um, an AP watch that he was gifted by AP that like specially made it for him and he was uh, gonna give it for auction. For some like charity thing, all he is doing is carrying a watch that he was gifted by AP.
That he's gonna put up for auction, not for his own, you know, gain for charity [01:15:00] charitable purposes. He got detained at the airport in Austria for hours.
**Bam Bam:** His home country,
**Senator:** mind you, his home country, about this watch, they made him pay some crazy amount of tax on the watch for him to leave the airport with it.
What's crazy? Crazy. It's absurd. This was like national news. It was all over the place. I
**Gizmo:** didn't hear anything about that. Can I ask
**Bam Bam:** you to explain what the VAT tax is? What is tax?
**Gizmo:** Is that what value added tax? It's, it's what? It's a, it's effectively a, uh, luxury tax. It's like a luxury or consumption tax.
Oh my God. It's on all different kinds of things. Anything really that you're importing Wow. That you consume or use. Right? I mean, is that accurate? That's accurate.
**Pagoda:** And in fact, if you keep the receipt and you typically give it back, you it back, you'll get the money back if you're leaving the country.
Really?
**Gizmo:** Oh, I see.
**Pagoda:** But it, it's, but, but for the, for the residents inside, they still owe the tax. So it's, um, you know, it, it's. I don't know, even India has recently adapted the vat. Uh, if you're in
**Rooster:** Canada and you buy something and when you're [01:16:00] coming back, you can stop at the border and you can claim the VAT
**Gizmo:** tax back.
You
can
**Gizmo:** get it back now. But not if you're Canadian, not if you're Canadian, if Canadian, if you're Canadian and you bring a, if you come in the United States to buy a box of cigars and they find it as you're crossing back over the border into Canada, I think they're gonna charge you 150 or 200% of wholesale lunacy.
It's the part of price you pay for being Canadian, I guess. Lunacy. I guess so. Anyways, he says that, uh, that's why purchases have to be considered more carefully, cost and quality wise. And with that in mind, have you heard of Mirafel Cigars? Jarrett Mirafel project using Cameroon wrapper? The cost is through the roof.
He's saying it's 60 to 90 pounds per stick. They're made by Arturo Fuente considering their close relationships. So the Mirafel's have been in business for hundreds of years. It's a family business, and I think they supply all the Cameroon wrappers. For Arturo Fuente. So obviously a lot of the Hemingway series uses camera and wrappers.
There's a lot of cigars that use that, so I think they're a, a [01:17:00] serious partner of that. But this cigar was actually named number one by a few publications. The, uh, the, the Jeremiah Mirab fell, it's their first cigar from that line, I think in over 80 years. Wow. From like the grandfather. Great-grandfather was putting cigars out.
So this is the first one they've done. Fuente obviously rolled it. There's very little info out there review wise, and I was wondering if it's more style over substance. I'd love to have you guys review it. Anyway, it's a great podcast. Like I said, the only thing I do to improve the podcast is to make it video two.
I wish we could regards lizard Alistair so he doesn't wanna
**Senator:** see us all sitting in our underwear while
**Bam Bam:** we do this. Especially me.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. The video podcast. YouTube wouldn't like that so much.
**Bam Bam:** Neither would pagoda Go
**Gizmo:** to choking on his, uh, a Florida Minicana smoke. You pictured me in a Speedo, didn't
**Bam Bam:** you [01:18:00]
**Pagoda:** all That's I was
**Bam Bam:** Borat.
**Gizmo:** Here's another one from Lizard. Luigi. He said, Hey lizards, hope you guys are well. I think it would be great if you guys did something P uh, from the Piro Desnudo line. So that's Rob Ayala and Hamlet Parities from, uh, friends of El Habano. They have the MOFO program and the Piro Desnudo, which has been out for a few years now.
I think it's Ecuadorian Tobacco. There's some blending in there as well. I was lucky I was on the Tasty Panel. Mm-Hmm. I talked a little bit about this. I was on the Tasty Panel last year. We're gonna do a, this is
**Senator:** why we need to review it. We do. Because Gizmo is partially responsible. Correct. So this is gonna be so fun.
Oh,
**Bam Bam:** this is gonna be one long atonement episode. The,
**Gizmo:** uh, you are not getting off the hook. Lemme tell you, the, the bond, Robert Cigar, they have coming out, the 1 0 9 coming out, I think it's in May or June of this year, few months. I've e I've been waiting for that cigar for six or eight months. It's so good.
I can't wait for you guys to try it. I think it'd be an [01:19:00] awesome episode. And do what goes in exactly to the blending process, Robin Hamlet go through to hammer down those blends. Would love for you guys to review it. Thanks very much Lizard and Luigi. So cool. Cool. That's a cool one because we haven't done.
Really any cigars that don't have bands on 'em. And that is one of the key parts of what Rob Ayala and Hamlet are doing, is it's no bands, no boxes, and no bullshit is kind of their tagline. So we're going to, uh, we're gonna end up doing one of those cigars. We're waiting on you in a couple months, so Yeah, we're gonna do that.
Have you, you've tried the 1 0 9? I have. I've tried all, I've tried a lot of them. Um, I've probably tried 15 different Vitolas over the last year. We get on Zoom, we smoke together, we give notes and a lot of feedback. It's a, it's a really, really interesting, uh, process that Rob and Hamlet are going through over there.
And the one thing I love about it is most of the cigars are under 15 bucks. 12 bucks, 10 bucks. They're affordable. I mean, very, very affordable. And what's cool too is they're shipping outta Miami. Wow. And you can get them at any time. You [01:20:00] don't need to go on twenty-four twenty-four to get 'em. You can just go on the website, put it in the cart, order it, you'll have it in a few days.
Cool. Highly recommend that stuff and like I said, we're gonna do great. A couple of those coming. Looking forward to that later in the year. Well, I mean, some cigars are already available. Oh yeah. There's a lot of cigars already available, right? Yeah. Yep. So boys, I guess we're coming into the last third here of the before Dominicana, you can't wait for it today.
And Elizabeth, I am very much over this right now. I see that. I'm very much over it. I'm not a happy camper at the moment. I think you need a
**Pagoda:** little extra pour over there. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** he does. Yeah. His glasses dry.
**Gizmo:** I will say that the ash, uh, has held on it. The construction. There's a lot of tobacco there. Yeah. But it has held on like, it's been actually hard for me to knock it off.
Very well made cigar. Yeah, the construction's been very good except for mine. The, uh, the wrapper falling apart as a product of the massaging that we all talked about. Yeah,
**Senator:** I think that's the biggest merit for the cigar at this point. The construction, the smoke output has actually been great. Agreed. And um, I mean, like you said, razor-sharp burn, nice white ash, [01:21:00] that's the one thing that's working.
But the flavor, I'm still disappointed.
**Bam Bam:** It's very consistent. Hasn't changed much for me.
**Senator:** Big consistency guy Bam.
**Bam Bam:** I, I am at the moment.
**Gizmo:** So let's continue on with some listener emails. So we've talked about this a few times and the response has been amazing. Uh, lizard Bill sent us an email saying, Hey guys, it's funny that you mentioned a bumper sticker being found in the wild.
I made this one a few months ago after I got introduced to your pod and get this. That's, this is crazy. I binge listened to like 80 episodes in a matter of weeks. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. That's amazing. That is. And you know, we've, we've heard so many stories of guys doing that. Once they find the podcast, they.
They go back and they listen to pretty much everything, which is crazy because I think now our listeners have like a better recollection of what we say and do on this podcast than I think even we do. Certainly my brain just is kind of like potato salad when it comes to what we've done in the pod.
We're gonna have listener
**Senator:** [01:22:00] accountability hours.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. They're gonna be fact checking us. Oh yeah. And he says, if any of you want the design, I still have it saved on my computer. Be happy to send some to you. Keep up the awesome work. Have a great one. And as Puba says at the end of his episode, uh, the episodes he's on keep smoking and there's the picture of the bumper sticker.
Boys lounge, lizards keep smoking. Wow. That's so what's interesting is that is not the one, he said he made this a while ago and put it on his car. Cool. That's not the picture that we got. From that listener who saw in Texas. So this is another one. Yeah. Um, you know, he said he did it a few months ago and we've obviously had a lot of listeners since that episode.
I think now we've probably gotten 40 or 50 emails of folks who've incredible, who've put bumper stickers on their car after that episode. So as Senator promised, when he sees him in the wild, I think you're gonna get a Padrone 50 year. Was it, oh, is that right? I
**Bam Bam:** never promised that. I think it was. Oh, I think it's an aged
**Gizmo:** 80th.
Oh, that's right. Yes. Anybody who has a bumper sticker on their car, email senator. And you're gonna get a free aged padrone. Correct. All right. Well, I guess this is [01:23:00] my last episode here.
**Bam Bam:** Cut his mic. Will you? It's nice though, when you guys,
**Gizmo:** and this is one of my favorite episodes we've probably ever gotten ever from Lizard Dustin who threw three question marks in the subject line.
So I was confused by that. I'm like, what's going on here? And the opening sentence is, is Rooster Liam Neeson.
**Bam Bam:** Hey, taken.
**Gizmo:** I love this podcast because you guys do amazing Cuban reviews and Rooster sounds just like my favorite actor. Is he the great Liam Neeson? So Rooster, do you want to come clean? Is is that our Dustin?
No, it's not. No, it's not our lizard. Dustin at the lounge here. No, this is Lizard Dustin something.
**Bam Bam:** One of our listeners, something. Say something in a surly deep voice. Go ahead. You
**Gizmo:** ever see the Taken movies? I like Liam Neeson.
**Bam Bam:** I like Liam Neeson. [01:24:00] He's a big fan.
**Gizmo:** Big fan. I like Liam. Neeson. I guess he thinks I like Liam. Neeson. He thinks you're the great Liam. Neeson. Do you want to come clean and tell everybody all Yeah, you're correct. Absolutely right.
**Bam Bam:** The deli version.
**Gizmo:** So write in and Rooster will give you a, uh, signed eight by 10 of himself as Liam Neeson, uh, with a cigar in his mouth. You got it? How about that, man? You've got the listeners just mystified. What can I say? You're just great emails, honestly. Yeah, great emails. Awesome. So we love when, uh, we love hearing from listeners.
We get a lot of recommendations on what to smoke, what to drink. Um, so please send them in. We'll read them on the air. We will, uh, what, what else
**Rooster:** are they recommending
**Gizmo:** for us to smoke? We've, we get everything. I mean, across the board actually, we've actually gotten several requests over the last two or three weeks probably.
I think we, 'cause we [01:25:00] discussed Romeo Julieta on a Cuban episode, uh, folks asking us to smoke some of the smaller format, uh, Cuban Romeos. That's been one that folks are saying, Hey, we know you don't like the large format. The wide Churchill did. Okay. On the podcast, if I remember. I think it was in the sevens, if I remember.
Yes, probably. Which one in particular? Exhibition number four. Exhibition number four. And the Millie. Floors, I think it's called Millie Floor. Yeah, Millie Floor. That was another one. So we've gotten, and the short Churchill as well, uh, was another one that, that people have been saying. They said, don't give up on Romeo yet.
We've had a lot of folks asking for those. Um, and we always have folks asking for Opus and various Padrones that we haven't done and Davidoffs we haven't done. So I try to slot them in on a, you know, kind of like a regular case. Any other new Worlds? I mean, we get everything. Yeah, yeah. We get everything.
Yeah. So I try to slot them in, you know, very regularly. And we have a lot of folks that have sent some stuff, so, you know, I slot those in as well. Any listeners who send us cigars, you know, those will be coming up as well. We have a lot of stuff coming up, so I think [01:26:00] do for another d. Yeah. We have one coming up.
We're doing the late-hour robusto coming up. Oh, okay. We did the late-hour church on a very, very early episode. We need to do the white label. Yeah. The white label church. Oh, yeah. Any, any white label.
**Senator:** I mean, if we're gonna do that, we need that little
**Gizmo:** bellicoso. Oh, that's a delicious cigar. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** The Churchill Beso.
That may require a, a
**Gizmo:** two cigar episode. No. Well, well we could that we'll just do it as a short smoke special at some point. Okay. That's cool. We'll include that with it. We'll do a Cuban and we'll do that one. So good. That's, that's become a nice dessert stick for us. Oh, that's become a state comes in.
Those nice little tins. Beautiful tins. Need to carrys. We need to
**Senator:** buy every tin before that episode comes out. Every last
**Gizmo:** one. And the price is unbelievably incredible reasonable. Right. It's so
**Bam Bam:** expensive. It's hard to get
**Senator:** Yeah, that's right. You tell him ba Correct.
**Pagoda:** It gets shipped from Switzerland.
**Bam Bam:** Right.
**Gizmo:** I gotta say this cigar just kind of had a little bit of a turn.
I don't know if it's a flash in the pan, but the last couple draws have actually been pretty enjoyable. Nice. Are you guys experiencing the same stuff as before?
**Bam Bam:** [01:27:00] I, I, I'm still enjoying it. You know, the, the comments about the boring nature of it, because it doesn't change and it's a larger ola. I agree with it, but it's, it's an enjoyable smoke.
I think the is a bad cigar. I think
**Pagoda:** the drink is helping at this point.
**Bam Bam:** Oh, that's not a good comment.
**Pagoda:** It is. He's, he
**Senator:** had quite a
**Bam Bam:** poor Oh, I see that.
**Gizmo:** What do you think of it now? Hasn't changed much.
**Rooster:** Mm-Hmm. It's about the same. Yeah. True. I mean, I thought it would, uh, build up on the notes. The notes would get a little bit more clear, but they really haven't.
I mean, it's about the same. It's not, it's not offensive, it's not bad. Right. I mean, there's some, uh, there's some good, you know, good things happening with the cigar. The combustion is good. Like the construction is good. I like the wrapper is really nice and smooth. Yeah. But, uh, I would like a little
**Gizmo:** bit more out of the cigar.
You want more oomph out of this? Yeah. I will say the aroma at the burn line on mine is really amazing. [01:28:00] Now it's, it's taken this long in the cigar to get there, but it's very, very good in the last, you should have just removed the wrapper from the cigar. I should, I think
**Bam Bam:** Rooster and Senator should have taken off the wrappers an hour ago.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, this, this turned around a little bit. Unfortunately, it looks like a cigar that came out of the bottom of the ocean, but it is what it is. So I got a question for you guys. This is kind of an open-ended question, something I've been thinking about, given what's going on with pricing. Obviously cigar imports have been a.
Through the roof since Covid. I know they've dipped a little bit, but I think it's just a correction. You know, after the covid boom. Do you guys think that we are in another cigar boom Now? I know it's not like it was in the nineties when cigar smoking really, really took hold. It was in sporting events.
We've talked about that in the past. I mean, they were sponsoring all-star games for the NBA and MLB official cigars. So not to that level. It's not as widely accepted now as it is, as it was then. But do you guys feel that we're in [01:29:00] a little bit of a cigar boom right now? Well, Habanos really think so. I mean, the way
**Rooster:** they keep raising their prices
**Gizmo:** every year, I mean, it's insane.
They
**Bam Bam:** have no fear.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I think it's, it's become a global audience. I think a lot of the cigars are, you know, finding itself, uh, you know, way further east. Um, it's becoming very popular even in countries like India. They've always been some, but I, it seems like there's conversation in cigars, which is going on.
We see it in movies all the time now. Really. Mm-Hmm. And then in movies as well. Oh, wow. So, yeah, so it's, uh, it's definitely picking up, I don't know whether it's a boom, but. Definitely, uh, there seems to be something that,
**Rooster:** but at what po what point does the consumer kind of turn off to these Habanos pricing?
That's a great question. I mean, at what point do you say Well, enough is enough. I'm not, I'm not gonna pay that much
**Gizmo:** for a Cuban cigar. Yeah. But I think that what's, what's happened with Habanos is that Habanos decision making and lack of supply [01:30:00] worldwide has also opened the door for manufacturers like Fuente, Padrone Davidoff to come into these markets, which were primarily held almost only by Cuban cigars.
So, you know, these markets that now have to face what we just heard from, from Lizard Alice there about the VAT tax. We know from our friends in Canada all over the world, paying these crazy prices for Habanos. If you're able to get a high quality cigar from one of these other manufacturers that's recently been introduced to your market.
At a third of the price, a quarter of the price, a fifth of the price, maybe a 10th of the price if you're comparing it to Cohiba and Trinidad. I, I think that it might be something that Habanos has kind of shot itself in the foot a little bit and is opening the door for these other manufacturers like Padrone.
We just talked about that on the, uh, episode two weeks ago. The Metallica episode. Yeah, the blackened Padrone just bought. He doubled his Finca, the size of his Finca, it's a hundred twenty-six acres, a hundred fifty-three [01:31:00] acres or something. Yeah. Something that, yeah. Like it's more than he's already had.
Mm-Hmm. He's doubling his capacity of what he can grow. Now, Fuente we talked about is opening a new facility in Nicaragua. He's gonna be making cigars in Nicaragua as well. All these manufacturers are growing and increasing their capacity. It's gotta be a reaction to some kind of serious demand worldwide.
Even outside the U.S, well, didn't in our
**Bam Bam:** last sales publication, wasn't there a dip in overall sales here in the States? Just a little bit. I think
**Gizmo:** it was a very little bit. Very little, yeah. Very little bit. But I'm thinking more outside the U.S as far as opportunity for these other manufacturers to,
**Bam Bam:** it's hard to comment on that, but locally, every club that I walk into is Jam-packed with smokers and a lot of young smokers, guys and girls.
So it's, it's, it's a trend and I feel like people want to get into it. It, it seems that way wherever I go.
**Senator:** Yeah, I, I agree. I mean, I think the, the data obviously shows, you know, COVID was a big driver of a boom. I mean, and, and, and it has staying power, which is pretty [01:32:00] remarkable, right? We're well outside of the craziness of any pandemic and, um, the numbers still continue to be strong.
I think to Bam's point, I mean, just anecdotally, qualitatively what you see in cigar lounges now versus, I mean, certainly what I remember 10 years ago, I, I, I meet more young smokers. I have seen more women smokers than I've ever seen. Mm-Hmm. I really do. I, I think even just when you tell people that you're a cigar smoker, I, I just feel like it's less surprising now.
Like I, I feel like, you know, years ago it was like, oh wow, you're a cigar smoker now. It's like, oh yeah, you and many other people. It just, yeah, it feels different and I think it's really exciting for the industry now in the new world space. There's an opportunity for this to be lasting in that, you know, you can be a young smoker getting into this and find reasonably priced cigars that you can stick with and continue your journey and really try a lot.
I think what's difficult is, you know, if you're outside the US and you're [01:33:00] just getting into Cuban cigars, I mean that's a, that's a very expensive time Oh yeah. To start in this hobby. Oh yeah. And that's the, you know, piece that I, who knows what the
**Bam Bam:** future of that looks like. And it goes to what Rooster said earlier, when do people stop buying or slow down their buying
**Gizmo:** of Cuban cigars.
**Rooster:** Right. I mean, even us, you know, we all, I think
**Gizmo:** smoke more new World's and smoke much less Cubes. 'cause it's, it's hard to replace those. It is, yeah.
**Pagoda:** CU Cubans are becoming very exclusive for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and the issue with exclusivity at some point in time it'll be capped, you know, from a demand perspective.
But, uh, having said that, gonna Carnegie world twice a week at an averages.
**Gizmo:** So you're talking Carnegie Club in the city, in New York City, Carnegie
**Pagoda:** Club in New York City. It's back.
**Bam Bam:** It's wall to wall. It's back. Yeah. It's
**Gizmo:** hard to get, it's hard to get a reservation there on a Thursday night. It's really tough.
Yeah. It's hard.
**Pagoda:** I'm surprised and I sometimes go a bit early. I hope nobody I know is listening. But, uh,
**Bam Bam:** well, the good thing is we have [01:34:00] no video,
**Gizmo:** so we also have Liam Neeson here. He gets right in.
**Pagoda:** But, you know, it gets, it starts getting packed around four P.M. It's ridiculous. Yeah.
**Rooster:** You know, I'm, I'm kind of, I'm, I'm a little afraid, like I have a lot of stuff that's
**Gizmo:** like, has a lot of age on them.
You, you're afraid.
**Bam Bam:** Afraid the plateau. And they may actually go
**Gizmo:** down, dip in their profile. So, should I really start like smoking stuff? I,
**Bam Bam:** I think you should. So you bring up an interesting point. I brought a Leyenda with me, I'm on a crystal, and it, because someone here, I think it was 1935. Yeah. Yeah. And those are 20 eighteens that we have.
We bought those collectively. I'm gonna have one tonight to see if it's dipping or if it's still containing maintaining its, its, uh, profile.
**Gizmo:** I've heard, I've heard rough things about those as they're eight. I know you have.
**Bam Bam:** I try. I
**Pagoda:** All right. Yeah. You're bringing five.
**Gizmo:** No, uh, when's the Opus Dubai
**Rooster:** episode
**Gizmo:** coming up?
That'll probably be sometime in April. Yeah, those are gonna plateau very soon. We need to, we need to do them as soon as possible. [01:35:00]
**Bam Bam:** Not a problem.
**Gizmo:** So, you know, the other thing too that's interesting about the Habanos thing is, I mean, look at that email the listener just sent us about the Puro Des Nudos that FOH is doing, Rob.
Right. So he's been directly dealing with the shortage of Cuban cigars since the Covid Pandemic and now has pivoted his business to, it's very smart. Making his own cigars, even like a primary retailer, one of the strongest retailers in the world for Habanos has said, I can't deal with this in, you know, instability anymore.
Yeah. I'm gonna do my own thing. And he is making great stuff at a price that he feels comfortable and confident putting to his, his customer base. It's a great idea. Yeah. I think
**Rooster:** you're gonna see a lot of custom rolled cigars
**Gizmo:** available to the mass market. Yeah. And we're loving
**Bam Bam:** them.
**Gizmo:** Right. Loving 'em. Yeah.
Yeah. And you know, the other thing we're seeing too, and when we did the James Hetfield episode two weeks ago, the blackened cigar from Drew State, guy Fiat II, the famous food network guy. He has a couple cigars that Mm-Hmm. I'm they, one of them was in the cigar fishing out top Twenty-five this year.
[01:36:00] Billy Gibbons, the guy from ZZ Top, just released a cigar. You know, it's like, I think people are kind of seeing this opportunity for this growing market. Clearly there's more cigar smokers now than there were four years ago before Kovat started. It's like, I don't know. I feel like we might be in a little bit of a cigar boom again, but I think a healthier one.
I. Then what happened 30 years ago? Alright, time to go to Nicaragua.
**Senator:** And we need a farm. We need to do it. The lizard
**Bam Bam:** farm. That's right.
**Pagoda:** I think, I think a great way to go to Nicaragua is you go to Costa Rica and just walk into,
**Gizmo:** that's the only country you haven't been to, right? Yeah. Oh, we take a boat. Yeah, there you go.
**Bam Bam:** I mean, face a couple of machine guns doing that.
**Gizmo:** All right boys, so we're coming to the end of our evening here. Any thoughts on the cigar and the pairing, the, uh, doers before we move into our ratings tonight?
**Bam Bam:** Pretty tasty pairing for me. Nothing over the top, but I.
**Gizmo:** All right, BamBam, let's do the, uh, rating on the Dewar's eighteen-year-age [01:37:00] blended scotch.
So
**Bam Bam:** I'm at an eight on this. I think it's, there's a lot of utility. It's easy to drink. Um, Senator mentioned it earlier. It's tough on the first few sips, but as you get into it, it's, it becomes pretty enjoyable. I'm at an eight.
**Gizmo:** Okay. Pagoda. Uh,
**Pagoda:** I'm at an eight as well. You know, I did mention earlier that I'd want a cube of ice, maybe a sploosh of club soda, but, um, you know, uh, I've been surprised I've been drinking it, uh, without those, you know, added, uh, supportive elements, elements.
Uh, and it's been a relatively good, so I'll leave it at an eight. Okay.
**Gizmo:** Senator?
**Senator:** I'm at a seven. I think it's, it's a credit to this, that. We're all able to drink a Dewar's product. Neat. That's, that's a victory right there. And the price, the price is good. I just think that the, um, the flavor profile is, is extremely straightforward.
That that's really my only knock on it. And so, [01:38:00] you know, a seven for me is a soft recommend, but will I pursue it? There's nothing memorable about the flavor profile. Like the only memorable thing about this is that it's drinkable. Mm-Hmm. And that is not enough exactly for me to pursue it. So I'm at a seven.
If I didn't have access to something else, that delivers a more interesting flavor profile. If I had this on a plane, a train somewhere, you know, it would just enough get the, it would be just enough to get the job done, but I wouldn't necessarily go outta my way to pursue it.
**Gizmo:** So I'm an eight. I, I think that for what it is, I think it's, I'm happy that we did this tonight because now, like you just said, if I'm in an airport, if I'm traveling somewhere and I see this, it's gonna be reasonably priced.
Such, certainly much more reasonable than a pour of some of the other scotches that it, it compares to age-wise. Sure. Not flavor-wise. Sure. Um, so I'm happy with an eight there. But for me, comparing it to even the twelve-year-aged scotches that we drink, even some of the blended scotches, um, price aside, I know that this is more of a value brand [01:39:00] than most of the others that we do, aside from maybe Kirkland, which I, I actually really like that twelve-year-aged blend.
But, you know, I, I think that it's, um. I think it's good. And I think that I, I think the formal liquor rating at a 7.8 tonight, boys That's very fair. Is a perfect, perfect score for this. Agreed, agreed. Perfect score. By the way, there's the Kirkland 18. That's out. I know. We should try that. Isn't that I have seen it.
I haven't had
**Bam Bam:** it. Mr. Costco has
**Gizmo:** spoken. I
**Senator:** thought we tried that. No, we did the 12. No, no, no. But there's a higher age statement that we did try twenty-three
**Gizmo:** twenty-three. This is an 18 Rounded. Yeah, we should try the 18. Alright boys, it's time to move into the formal lizard rating now on the Laflora, Dominicana and illusion bowl.
Rooster, you're up. Yeah. So, uh,
**Rooster:** I mean this cigar, I assume it's, it's hard to roll.
**Gizmo:** You know, like this size
**Rooster:** and, uh, this fatala, apparently there's only like two rollers that roll the cigar. There's a lot of hype about the cigar. I don't quite get the hype, but if this cigar [01:40:00] is selling for like 38 to $40 for a stick,
**Gizmo:** I think I'm out price.
Yeah. It's outrageous. Outrageous. At 18 to
**Rooster:** $20, I think
**Gizmo:** it's a fair price for this. Yeah. That's large format. That's what we got this for. Yeah. Right. So I don't know how common
**Rooster:** that is,
**Gizmo:** but it is definitely overhyped
**Rooster:** for what it is. I mean, it's, it didn't quite change the way I expected it to change. It stayed kind of more on the milder side than even medium.
I would say. Nothing really offensive about the cigar. It's a good cigar. Uh, just not in my flavor profile. So I'm at a seven
**Gizmo:** Senator. I'm
**Senator:** also at a seven. And for me, the best part of it, it, it's really well-constructed, like Rooster said, I did not have to touch it up a lot. The, um, you know, even the wrapper is just, I mean, with the exception of obviously Gizmo's Cigar, the wrapper, it's, it's nice to look at, I'm [01:41:00] gonna take
**Gizmo:** this wrapper home with me.
Please, please don't massage the cigar. Look at this. It's in for the listener out there, I'm literally holding the entire wrapper in my hands. A, its' like you're smoking a Leaf by Oscar.
**Senator:** Correct. Is, um, and the combustion was really, really good all the way through which, you know, I think we've talked about a number of larger ring-age cigars that we've had Mm-Hmm.
That shockingly have not put out much smoke output that you would expect. This definitely delivers on that front, which is great. But I think like Rooster, the, the flavor profile is really what fell short. There's just not enough, I think the last quarter of this. Picked up a little bit in strength, trying to fight to get closer to medium, but it just wasn't enough really all the way through.
And I think the, the finish that a number of us have talked about is just too short for a cigar that is regarded as like a flagship cigar from them that is like, you know, meant to be this really special experience. [01:42:00] I, I'm not gonna remember any particular flavor note really, that I got out of this cigar.
And that's a shame at, at something that is as hyped up, uh, yeah. And, and supposed to deliver such a spectacular experience. Mm-Hmm. I will say the price point at $20 I do think is fair. Just that this is a long cigar. Yeah. You're getting bang for your buck. I mean. I, this is one of the longest smokes I've had in a while.
So for $20, I mean, there are countless Robustos, we spend 20 bucks on. This is like, you know, double the cigar it feels like. So I, it is a good value and that's where, for me, soft recommended a seven man.
**Gizmo:** It's easily a two hour smoke. Oh yeah. I think a lot of listeners out there could get two and a half, three hours outta this if you're really milking it nice and slow, you know, and,
**Bam Bam:** and the pr And when you walk into a club, most of the people that you see are going for milder cigars.
So there's definitely a slot for this, for many, many people.
**Gizmo:** You know, so for me boys, it's a six. Obviously. I think you knew that was coming with the experience I had on the wrapper coming apart, a little bit of construction issues with the draw that I was massaging [01:43:00] out. You know, I, I'll add on what, uh, what Rooster and Senator have already said.
I agree with everything they've both said. I think number one, the way the cigar lit, I thought the first quarter of the, the first eighth of the cigar, really more, even more than the first quarter was really interesting. It was different. I think Rooster said something like it was unlike anything that he had tasted.
Yeah. It had a very unique profile to it. I thought the smell of the foot, even before we lit it to Senator's Point, he said a few times how great that smelled. I thought it smelled amazing. It looked amazing. It didn't perform how I thought it should, you know, and, and what's unfortunate about it is that.
This cigar being named Cigar the year seven years ago. Being as scarce as it as it is, this should be delivering a nine or a 9.5 experience to every single person who smokes this. Obviously we didn't have that in the room tonight and even with the great flavor at the first eighth of the cigar, first quarter of the cigar, even if that continued all the way through, I don't even think it would've hit a nine for me 'cause it just wasn't that [01:44:00] interesting.
At times it was boring. Certainly throughout, I was getting mainly that kind of sour tang. I had a moment there at the end where it was kind of picking up. I put a lot of my cigar down. I probably put a quarter of it down 'cause I just was struggling with it, without the wrapper. But you know, unfortunately it, it could have been better.
It should have been better, and that's why it's a six for me. I have no interest in ever smoking this cigar again. Okay.
**Pagoda:** Uh, I'm at a seven and you know, I was really looking for some pointers to push it to a eight because it does have a great combustion. Um, and, uh, you know, the draw was fantastic. Uh, there was a couple of of flavor notes, which I really liked.
It was creamy in the beginning. Um, but you know, I shouldn't say this. You know, I never think anything's boring or not, but, you know, there are cigars that you are really like, you don't want them to finish, you know, and this is one I've been really struggling at the end just to continue smoking. So I, I guess now I understand what really [01:45:00] boring means from that perspective.
Uh, having said that, I think, uh, it's still a smokable cigar and I would, uh, probably give it to people who are. Wanting to, you know, have a really pleasurable evening. It's also not in my, uh, flavor profile. No, it's not. So, uh, you know, uh, I think a seven is the highest. I could go on this today. Cheers. Bam,
**Gizmo:** bam.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, I think a mild recommend is a very fair score. I'm at a seven with this. I'm about an inch down from the bottom. It hasn't changed at all. I didn't, it didn't ratchet up in, in profile at all. It just stayed very consistent. You know, I'm gonna echo what p what Pagoda said it. The creaminess continued and velvety smoke.
The combustion was fantastic. Mild recommend seven I.
**Gizmo:** Boys that puts the formal Lizard rating on the, the floor Dominicana, Andalusian, Bull at a 6.8. That's a little low. I think it's accurate. I agree. And you know what I wanted to say too, and I didn't want to influence the rating with this, but we have, I think two or three [01:46:00] other members of our lounge here at TenEightySix who recently have purchased this cigar as we were anticipating doing it here.
Mm-Hmm. We've been talking about a lot. Trying to find them. Ultimately Bam found 'em from Kenny at Fanatics. Thank you again, Kenny. Yep. They all had the same experience. I. Every single one of them had the same experience. They said, you guys aren't gonna rate this higher than an eight For sure. And I was surprised because, so I've heard great
**Bam Bam:** things.
We know Lizard J bought these. Yeah. Did he say the same thing? He hates 'em. Really hates 'em. Wow. Yeah. He
**Gizmo:** was handing 'em out. Wow. Wow. He actively hates them. Interesting. Yeah. And I, you know, I, I was thinking maybe he was being a little harsh or Mm-Hmm. You know, but he's accurate. Yeah. You know, unfortunately it's, and that's for every kind of pallet of smoker.
I mean, we cover a lot of pallet in the room, different preferences. I think we lean a little more, more medium full. But we do in the lounge here, a lot of these guys, there's, like you said, smoking mild cigars. They are, this should be delivering. Yeah. The other thing I'll say too is if this cigar was better, this would've been a three hour episode tonight, [01:47:00] because it would've been a cigar that we were nursing and enjoying and taking it all the way down to the end.
And all of us have cigar left that we're just not interested in smoking. That's a 6.8 to me. Yeah. Well Jay, Jay is also a big padron smoker.
**Rooster:** Yeah. I mean, he smokes
**Gizmo:** the 80th, like they're going out of style.
**Bam Bam:** He's grown into that higher
**Gizmo:** profile. So this cigar is not gonna be in its flavor profile. Oh, no. No, not at all.
I don't think that's fair though, because he smokes a lot of Cuban cigars and loves them. True. You know, and that Cuban cigars don't even touch Dominican as far as, uh, strength and and fullness. Correct. So, I I, I don't know if I agree with that, but, but there's complexity there though. There is complexity and I think that that's something that's lacking here too.
Yeah, that's right. You know. Alright. Oh, so let's, sorry. Oh my gosh. Cleaned up on aisle four. Pagoda has Ash somebody get the bucket quite literally all over his crotch in a way that is
**Bam Bam:** just, that's a photo op there that's gonna be posted on the gram. Oh yeah, we'll put that on
**Gizmo:** the Instagram. So let's go through a couple of ratings here quick on, uh, two other [01:48:00] spirits that we compared to the Dewars 18 tonight, which, like I said, got a 7.8.
On episode 45, we did Dewar's 15, which got a 7.6 and the other one, uh, they also share a distillery with Aberfeldy. They own that. We did the Aberfeldy 12 on episode 18. That's a long time ago, over a hundred episodes ago that got a flat 7.0. So this edged out both of those, certainly as an 18 year age, uh, with a 7.8 edge those out.
So that's that boys. Our first LeFleur Dominicana on the pod. I guess next we're gonna have to go something a little stronger and see how those perform. Especially since how many of those they're selling those double blue HEROs. We're not gonna do that big one though. We're gonna do something a little bit more, a little bit more reasonable.
Alright boys. So on the Dewar's eighteen-year-aged blended scotch, we had a 7.8 tonight, and on the LeFleur, Dominicana and Delusion Bowl, we had a 6.8. Great conversation, great being with you all, and we'll see everybody next week.[01:49:00]
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