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Killer Quote: "Compliance isn't just about ticking a box anymore; it's about integrating with the business, using data to predict and prevent issues before they arise, and ensuring ethical conduct is woven into the fabric of your organization. In a world where AI tools can provide both incredible insights and glaring inaccuracies, it's our responsibility to verify, validate, and lead with integrity.” -- Tom Fox
Welcome to The Chemical Show™, where chemicals mean business. If you're looking for insights from business leaders of mid-market to Fortune 50 companies, this is the place to be.
Featuring interviews with industry executives, you’ll hear about the key trends impacting chemicals and plastics today: growth, sustainability, innovation, business transformation, digitalization, supply chain, talent, strategic marketing, customer experience and much more.
Episodes are published every Tuesday.
Host Victoria Meyer gained her industry experience at leading companies, including Shell, LyondellBasell and Clariant. Before taking those insights and experiences to launch a strategy & marketing consultancy, Progressio Global, and The Chemical Show podcast. Victoria brings a informed and engaging perspective, making this podcast not just about the chemical business, but about people, leadership, business challenges and opportunities, and so much more.
The Chemical Show brings you the latest insights into trillion-dollar chemical industry. You will hear from leading industry executives as they discuss their companies, business, markets, and leadership. You’ll learn how chemical, specialty chemical, petrochemical, material science and plastics companies are making an impact, responding to the changing business environment, and discussing best practices and approaches you can apply in your business.
This podcast is a must-listen for executives and business leader everywhere, leading B2B process businesses and industries, driving strategy, harnessing customers and suppliers, and driving business innovation.
A key component of the modern
world economy, the chemical
industry delivers products and
innovations to enhance everyday life.
It is also an industry in transformation
where chemical executives and
workers are delivering growth and
industry changing advancements while
responding to pressures from investors,
regulators, and public opinion.
Discover how leading companies
are approaching these challenges
here on the chemical show.
Join Victoria Meyer, president
of Progressio Global and
host of the chemical show.
As she speaks with executives across the
industry and learns how they are leading
their companies to grow, transform, and
push industry boundaries on all frontiers.
Here's your host, Victoria Meyer.
VictoriaM: Hi, this is Victoria Meyer.
Welcome back to The Chemical Show,
Where Chemicals Means Business.
Today, I am speaking with Tom
Fox, who is the president of
the Compliance Podcast Network.
So Tom is the Number One Voice of
Compliance and founder of the award
winning Compliance Podcast Network.
He's a lawyer, and an
international bestselling author
with 33 books on compliance,
business ethics and leadership.
So Tom and I are going to be talking
today about the role of compliance
and the power of podcasting.
Tom, welcome to The Chemical Show.
Tom Fox: Thank you.
I'm really thrilled to be here with you.
VictoriaM: Tom, what's your origin story?
How did you get started even
being interested in pursuing
a career in compliance?
Tom Fox: So I was a
recovering trial lawyer.
I defended petrochemical companies
along the Texas Gulf Coast largely.
So I had a lot of experience with
health and safety in the 80s and 90s.
In the first decade of this
century, I went in house and I
did contracts at Halliburton.
I leveraged that position as a general
counsel's position at another oilfield
service company who in 2007 had the
largest bribery and corruption fine
in the history of the world over, uh,
there's a US law called the Foreign
Corrupt Practices Act, which prevents US
companies from engaging in bribery and
corruption outside the United States.
I was part of the new management
team brought in to, uh, clean it up
and put in a new compliance program.
So that was really my first
experience with compliance.
I did that for a couple of years, the
company got sold, my job went away.
I decided, what I really wanted to
do with my life was race bicycles.
So I went off on this great adventure
to race bicycles and I was over 50.
I could ride in the senior division.
I had great fun, got in great
condition until, uh, one training
ride, I got taken out by a Hummer.
VictoriaM: Ooh.
Tom Fox: that ended my cycling career.
Fortunately, um, I wasn't
banged up too badly.
I was really bruised internally
and just took forever to heal.
So I was on a walker and
then crutches and a cane.
So after a couple of months of,
uh, convalescence in the hospital
and at home, I realized I was
going to have to go back to work.
And, um, so I got on my walker
and huddled into my office and,
decided what I really enjoyed.
was building a compliance
program inside of a corporation.
And it really tied into my prior life as
a trial lawyer in the following manner.
What I saw in compliance was
what I saw in safety in the 90s.
That journey of safety being something
everybody kind of knew about to
number one priority of every company,
everywhere, um, that became, uh,
the same story for compliance.
This was 2010.
The only time I left the house
was good physical therapy.
So I couldn't meet people.
I couldn't have a drink, couldn't
have lunch, couldn't go to a
conference, couldn't go to a meeting.
Um, and so I started exploring
social media, which at that point
in my life, I knew nothing about.
VictoriaM: Well, it was also the
very early days of social media.
Tom Fox: So Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook,
and in six months, I built a worldwide
consulting practice literally out of
my house and way before work from home.
So I've been working from home since
2010, and that's how it started.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
That's very cool.
And then how did you get into podcasting?
Tom Fox: So as a lawyer, I'd
always written a lot of articles.
So blogging was sort of natural
extension as, and part of my
social media marketing outreach.
And then podcasting was a
natural extension of blogging.
And then in 2017, I got this bright idea.
Well, let's form a network
of compliance podcasters.
So there's three trade
organizations in my world.
And so I went to each one of them and
said, Hey, let's form this consortium
and we will be the one stop shop for all
information in the compliance format.
And we won't take away from
what you're already doing.
Um, and I could get no interest.
VictoriaM: Yeah, I was going to say,
would they buy in at that point?
Tom Fox: so I just said, bleep it.
I'll do it myself.
So I did.
And so in 2019, I decided I either
had to fully commit or move it
back to hobby status and start
practicing law full time again.
For me, that meant compliance.
And so I quit practicing law, bought
all the cool toys, which you see.
I built a huge network,
and I mean huge network.
And at the end of the year,
I'd made about 10, 000.
And I thought, well, that was
an interesting experiment.
I have to go back to playing lawyer.
So I did in 2020 till they shut
the country down on March 15th.
And, uh, what happened was starting
May 15th, I literally got a call
from every product provider in the
compliance space with, which had the
same question, which was how long to
get access to your network, because
even by then I had the largest social
media presence in compliance and prior
to COVID almost all marketing was done
at trade shows, conferences, breakfast
roundtables, Or that sort of event.
And of course that wasn't available
and all that money was just
sitting there waiting to be spent.
So they spent it on my little network.
And because of the work I'd done
in 2019, the answer to everyone's
question was the same 24 hours.
Cause it literally was
just a plug and play.
Because of everything I'd done.
So my little world blew up and I have
since that time tried to consolidate
the explosive growth I had in 2020.
And like I went to 200, 000
downloads a month in one month.
And then, um, so I've just tried
to grow that network now and make
it more professional and see if it
can be an ongoing viable business.
VictoriaM: I love it.
I love it.
And, uh, I am nowhere near as, uh,
as close or as big as you are at this
point in time, but absolutely see
the, the role that podcasting plays
in building connections in enabling
leaders and companies to tell their
stories and reaching people in a
much more personal way, um, in a
more impactful way than a lot of the
traditional trade media conferences,
et cetera, even though post COVID, a
lot of those things have come back.
All right, so let's talk a
little bit about compliance.
Um, And it sounds like you've
done some pretty impressive things
through your career, but what's
critical about compliance today?
Tom Fox: So.
As I mentioned, I'm a recovering trial
lawyer, and in the late 80s and early
90s, there were three massive, and I
mean massive, chemical plant explosions.
In Houston, Harris County and the Gulf
Coast for the Texas Gulf Coast, huge loss
of life, millions of dollars in damage
all leading up to the Exxon Valdez and
the Exxon really became the leader in
safety because Exxon said, we will make
this will never happen to us again.
We are very embarrassed.
And we are not gonna let this happen.
And we're going to make safety the
number one priority of our company.
And guess what?
If you want to do business with us.
You have to make safety
the number one priority.
So all of these companies that
did business with Exxon, uh, had
to, uh, put safety as number one.
Now, most of those, many of those,
I should say, had gone through
these chemical plant explosions.
Chevron, um, used to be Amico, but
it's now BP, uh, and one other one.
But, they had, you know, huge losses.
And so they changed their safety culture.
So what I saw from that was
when leadership makes a decision
to change something, they can.
And I, uh, when I went in the corporate
world, I went with Halliburton,
obviously an oilfield service company
and Halliburton had that same ethos.
Safety is number one in our company.
Now it doesn't matter to me
whether it was altruistic.
It doesn't matter to me if
it was a business decision.
The result was safety was number one.
And, you know, even lawyers opened
every meeting with a safety moment
and that really drives home safety.
Now you're still going to have incidents.
You're still going to have accidents
because people are involved.
There was a huge shift in the nineties.
That shift didn't start with leadership
just saying we're going to change.
They put in safety programs, they
put in training programs, they
gave up employees, the ability
to raise their hand and speak up.
Um, they did a monitoring of safety.
Data to make sure that an ongoing basis
safety was being still taken care of.
So a lot of, almost all of the
things you have to do in compliance.
Things we had to do in the
nineties and first five years
of this decade around safety.
And so I really looked to safety and
frankly, compliance is still not as
sophisticated as safety is in training.
Um, and I don't know why we can't
get there, but we can, for me, I
had that model in mind and I saw it
play out in front of me in the first
decade of this year, this decade,
uh, this century compliance was
written by lawyers and for lawyers.
You were these massive codes of conduct
and massive policies and procedures,
VictoriaM: Really kind of boring.
Tom Fox: Well, not for a
lawyer, but you couldn't read
them if you weren't a lawyer.
And so the person who's trying to
read it, trying to do the right thing.
It was.
Virtually encipherable.
So that was sort of the first
evolution of compliance was to move
away from strictly a legal, um, basis.
And then it moved to more business basis,
meaning that it had to integrate into
the company and not simply be no, Dr.
No, from the land of no, you had
to actually help the business.
Well, now the evolution is
data and data analytics.
And what can you move?
There are three parts to every compliance
program, prevent, detect, and remediate.
We've gotten pretty good at detection, but
we are still moving towards prevention.
And that's what data analytics
promises, which is to prevent
something from happening, whether it's
a safety incident or whether it's a
compliance violation before it happens.
So
VictoriaM: So what are the trends
that you see in compliance today?
And in particular, when we think
about, um, chemicals and energy
and this heavy duty infrastructure
that we're working with.
Tom Fox: I typically focus on safety
because in the chemical industry,
compliance to me is largely around safety
or HSE, safety, health, and environment.
A huge part of ESG and something that
every corporation involved in this
industry, um, literally has to have
as part of their corporate governance.
I still do contract work or small
contractors along the Texas Gulf
Coast in the petrochemical space.
And so these are 30, 50, 150 million
companies that are too small to
have their own general counsel.
And I, uh, see in these contracts
and increased awareness of compliance
because the plant owners are
requiring contractors to sign on
to very robust compliance programs.
Part of it is around.
You know, gifts, travel, and
entertainment for plant employees.
Part of it is around
conflicts of interest.
Part of it is around paying
bribes to third parties.
Part of it is around making sure
everyone has their documents that
is hired and works for a company.
Part of it is around, of
course, drugs and alcohol use.
Um, And that's, you know, for safety
reasons, obviously, but, um, so
I see all of these requirements
that the top chemical plants have
for themselves being pushed down
in these contractual provisions.
So, literally, a 50M dollar company
that does 1 thing very well, they
have to sign on to and have compliance
programs in place for the Chevrons of the
world, or you name the chemical plant.
VictoriaM: Do you think
they understand it?
I think to some of the, contracts that,
you know, even when I was at Shell and
Clariant, there were occasionally there
would be a provision thrown in and then
somebody be like, Oh yeah, that's great.
Um, we can sign that.
And yet, and then somebody else
takes a look at it and be like, Oh,
do you know what you just agreed to?
So do you think there's a, a
clarity of understanding and how.
How do companies ensure that they
understand in order to be able to comply?
Tom Fox: Well, if they have me
as a lawyer, they do because
I know what to look for.
Uh, so I don't focus really
on the commercial terms.
Um, I know what the legal terms are.
I know what they should say
in the petrochemical industry.
One, in contractual negotiations,
we're all moving towards the same goal.
Doesn't mean we don't represent
our client, but everybody
wants a contract sign.
The plant owner wants a contract sign,
and the contractor wants a contract sign.
And they're fairly, uh, established
parameters around compliance, around
risk management, and the legal terms.
Now there's some room for
negotiation, certainly.
Um, and I guess the easiest would be are
you going to cap your overall liability?
If so, what's that cap going to be?
Is it going to be the amount
of insurance required?
Is it going to be something above that?
Is it going to be 15 million?
Is it going to be 20 million?
Uh, because that's a big deal.
Because you have unlimited liability,
potentially you could lose your company.
But, um, so everybody kind of
understands what the parameters are.
And, um, you can have a tough
negotiation and still be fair.
And my job is to, I don't
tell clients what to do.
I say, here's your risk.
You have unlimited liability.
If you want to swallow very hard
and accept that that's your call
cause you're the business owner.
VictoriaM: One of the challenges I
hear from companies sometimes, is
different standards and understanding
when they're working globally.
Right, because depending on
who you're dealing with, they
don't always understand that.
Right?
So a counterpart in India may not
recognize that what they're doing, which
may be a standard business practice to
them may actually be in conflict with.
A U.
S.
perspective, a European
perspective, et cetera.
So do you see that often?
Tom Fox: Uh, it used to be
more, um, common, but now
if you do business with a U.
S.
company and you're in India, or you
name the country, you're going to be
generally aware that you're going to have
to do business ethically and compliance.
And if you don't, um, it's up
to the company that hires you
to give you that training.
But most.
Businesses outside the U.
S., they understand that it is a
true business differentiator and
a business plus for them to do
business in compliance with U.
S.
law, to have had training, and to be able
to demonstrate that they can meet The U.
S.
company's requirements under U.
S.
law and, uh, just makes them more
marketable as a subcontractor
or a business partner,
VictoriaM: Make sense.
What about digital?
Right?
So we're living in the world of, uh, of
digital, the digital age, um, digital
transformation, AI and data analytics,
and you referenced data earlier, um.
How are they, uh, impacting compliance
practices would be one thing.
And then the second piece is, are
there new things to be looking for
and what do companies to be, need to
be aware of as they go more digital?
Tom Fox: The evolution has been
fascinating because it started with
data and, uh, sort of in the last second
decade of this century and the DOJ started
talking about data and data analytics.
And then they got more serious around
the time of the pandemic, and then
they hired a guy who was a chief
compliance officer at a company
called AB InBev, which in the U.
S.
is Budweiser.
And he, his company had gone through
an enforcement action, and as a result
of that, as part of his remediation, He
put together the most sophisticated data
analytics program for compliance in the U.
S.
And the DOJ hired him, and he
brought that institutional knowledge
to the Department of Justice.
So number one, the DOJ could tell you
had a really adequate data analytics
program, but equally importantly,
they could tell when you didn't.
And so last week, we had a huge release
of information from the DOJ on their
expectations around compliance and data
was once again, a very big part of it.
But here was the twist.
We've always known you had to
have a data analytics program, but
the DOJ focused on data access.
Which is different.
And they said the compliance
function has to have access across
all data silos within your company.
And that means all.
And if you don't, you're going
to get negatively graded.
And if you say, well, I
didn't have the resources.
Well, shame on you.
You're going to get negatively
graded and that they have elevated.
the compliance function to having access
to the data and then using the data.
It's no, it used to be sort of a gold
standard, then it moved to best practices.
Now it's just table stakes.
So that has been one evolution.
Literally, we saw that capstone last week.
When it comes to AI, obviously we're still
sort of in the infancy of that, but in
the compliance realm, what the DOJ has
said is it's about your data quality.
Uh, what's going in to your AI or
using chat GPT, which is everyone's
data, or do you have a dedicated.
Uh, AI or generative AI rather for
your company with your company's data.
How do you determine data
quality and data security?
The issue I have with chat GPT and
not really, I don't know if issue
is the right word, but I ask a
compliance question, I get an answer.
I know if it's right or wrong
because I know the answer.
The problem is if you don't
know the answer and you ask a
question, you don't know if you've
been given the right answer.
And so the, the best example, uh,
is I think everyone's heard of the
lawyers who filed some briefs done
by CHAT GPT and it turned out it
cited cases which didn't exist.
And everyone went, ah, stupid lawyers.
And yes, they were.
But the greater point is, You have to
double check the information you're given
and it was that lawyer's responsibility
to go site check those cases to see if
one they existed to they said what chat
GPT said they did for precedent purposes.
So, I have asked chat GPT some pretty,
uh, detailed questions about, uh,
risk and risk management and I've got
some pretty good answers back, but I.
I'm confident I know the answers.
If you're a newbie and you put
it in, you don't know the answer.
So that's the biggest problem right now.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
It's a risk.
Well, and even, Google is offering up
a lot of AI based answers right now.
I've seen this myself personally,
I forget what I was looking up and
I'm like, That cannot be right.
Like I was looking for resources.
Um, I think I was helping
with one of my kids with a
problem, a school related thing.
And I was like, I don't
think I believe this.
Right.
And so, um, it's presenting information
that may or may not be factual.
In fact, one example as well that
came up recently, business colleague
was telling me that, um, she had gone
on in it searched on The Chemical
Summit, which is the conference that
that I host that I started last year.
This is year 2 and she's
like, well, it's interesting.
It came up with AI answer.
It attributed the conference to a
completely different company as the
founder of the company, I don't know
what's working behind the scenes, to
your point, if you don't have at least
a glimmer of what the right answer
is, you could be really led astray.
Tom Fox: So the, yeah, the
exact, this happened to me.
I was researching a bank
fraud case from the nineties.
And the, there were two defendants, two
men, one of the men was married to Linda
Carter, who was the original Wonder
Woman, and I vividly remembered that,
um, you know, for all the boy reasons.
Uh, so I, I was Googling, or our chat GPT
asked to tell me about the two defendants,
and they said the defendant who was
married to Linda Carter, And I said, who
is the son in law of the other defendant?
I knew that wasn't right.
So I said, who is he married to?
And it gave me the daughter
of the co defendant.
And I knew that wasn't right, because
it wasn't listed as Linda Carter.
So the third query I said, please describe
the relationship between Linda Carter
and this other woman, whoever it was.
And it came back, we are
sorry, we made a mistake.
Robert Altman was married to
Linda Carter, not so and so.
So one, number one, chat GPT apologized
at two, it recognized it made a mistake.
But if I had known that, and it
was absolutely positive about
that, when I typed it in, I would
have put the wrong information in
whatever resource I was creating
VictoriaM: Well, and so this, I
think is 1 of those things that
keeps people a little bit fearful.
If I come back to compliance,
you know, you reference the D.
O.
J.
and I think, people's greatest fear
around compliance around anti bribery
around all kinds of things, because you
did not want to get called into a DOJ
query investigation, et cetera, et cetera.
So my guess is people are a bit concerned
rightfully so that one of the risks
around AI, the risks around some of
our digital solutions is there's a lot
of imperfect information out there.
And so sorting through that imperfect
information, um, is pretty challenging.
Tom Fox: right now.
I have found it very useful
in terms of, uh, new ideas.
Or give me different ways to think
about things or put a transcript in
and get a 1st draft of a something.
So, it can be useful if you have a general
understanding of the subject matter.
So, and I'm sure it's only going to
get better, but right now, what the
DOJ said for compliance is you have to
have clear visibility into the data.
The data has to be secure.
And you have to know where
the answer is coming from.
And as a lawyer, if, uh, there's another
example, I think it was Air Canada.
They had a, a bot that, um, customers
could use on customer service questions.
And the bot told some
customer, do something this
way and you'll get a refund.
And it turned out it wasn't true.
And so he sued Air Canada and Air Canada
said, well, it wasn't us, it was the bot.
No, one thing I learned a long time
ago, if you, if it went out under
your name, you're responsible.
Now you may have an indemnity right
from somebody, but you know, if you're
in a chemical plant and there's an
accident, they're going to come to you.
So the same basic legal
principles apply around AI.
Once it goes out under
your name, it's yours.
VictoriaM: So what role does
lead do leaders play in this?
When I think about just, you know,
we've touched on a variety of things
related to compliance and ethics, I
guess, ties into this in some ways.
Um, whether it be HSE, data analytics,
the use of AI, what role do company
leaders play in fostering that culture of
compliance and, and really instilling it?
Tom Fox: Leaders are absolutely necessary.
It is absolutely necessary
that they lead not simply in
thought or in word, but indeed.
And they have to talk the
talk and walk the walk.
It does not work if your leaders do not.
I'm doing business ethically and
compliance and demanding their company
do business ethically and in compliance.
So it's just like safety back in the 90s.
And when Exxon said, we're going
to change and they did that came
straight from the top and that That
principle still holds true today.
VictoriaM: All right, Tom.
So let's turn our talk to podcasting.
So you have been, uh, on the air,
I guess we could say, uh, although
it's, you've been digital and on
video and publishing podcasts for a
decade, primarily about compliance.
How is this influencing
business and compliance?
What do you see changing from the time
that you started, um, doing what you
do to where we are today in terms of
the role of podcasting in business,
in compliance, in other areas?
Tom Fox: Sure.
So there for the business, there
are five reasons to have a podcast.
Number one, thought leadership.
Number two, audience engagement.
Number three, relationship building.
Number four, content creation
and number five conversion.
So each one of those is a
little bit different and has
a little bit different focus.
You can have multiple reasons
within there, but, um, you need
to have a reason for doing that.
Having said that every business
should have a podcast period.
You are missing the boat if
you don't have a podcast.
Over
85 million people listen to
multiple podcasts per week.
And over 160 million people
have listened to a podcast.
Those numbers are just incredible.
If you're not using a podcast format
to publicize yourself and your company,
you're missing a incredible resource.
Number one.
Number two is from a podcast.
You can generate social media marketing
content and create video grams,
audio grams, tweets, LinkedIn posts,
Facebook posts, Instagram posts.
If you want to go all the way,
you can do a Tik TOK post.
Um, but, uh, it's, it's.
As powerful a marketing tool as
you can have, it's not going to
replace what you're doing, but
it's going to supplement it.
People trust.
because of the audio format
more than they trust the printed
word or even visual or video.
Uh, but if I go back to those five
reasons to start a podcast, number
one, thought leadership, you want
to show you're a thought leader.
Well, um, here's the great thing
about a thought leadership podcast.
You get to learn from
every person you talk to.
And I see around corners further
and faster than anyone compliance.
It's not because I'm the smartest person
is because I'm talking to the smartest
people and I'm putting all those dots
together because I'm talking to everyone.
And so it gives me the ability to improve
my Speaking skills, my book, writing
skills, my thought leadership skills.
Cause I'm interviewing people
to, um, relationship building.
If you want to do business with a
company and I'll just use myself.
I mean, Melomans and my name is Tom Fox.
I'm a solo lawyer.
I've experienced in contracts.
I'd like to talk to you about
doing contract work for you.
They may or may not respond by email
them and say, My name is Tom Fox.
I have this podcast network.
I want to interview you for a podcast
and I want you to talk about you.
You will get 100 percent response
100 percent of the time and
it will be 100 percent yes.
Everybody wants to talk about themselves.
Uh, three relationship building,
excuse me, um, content creation.
When we were getting ready for
the pod, you asked me how I
managed to write all these books.
Well, it's because the podcast is a
part of my content creation, a process.
It can be, um, a podcast leads
to a blog post, leads to a white
paper, leads to a chapter of a book.
can be, uh, I wrote, uh, modestly, I would
say the definitive compliance handbook.
And I wrote it.
And to edit and proofread,
I can't just read.
I have to read out loud.
And it dawned on me that if I'm
reading this out loud, that's
a podcast if I record it.
So for a year, every day, I did a
podcast based upon a couple of pages
I wrote for a book and I literally
had a red pen with me and every
time I saw a mistake, I circled it.
I didn't edit while I was recording.
I just circled it for later reference.
And so that worked for me.
Uh, you can kind of use
the flip side of that.
Say you want to, uh, my latest
book I published this summer.
Uh, I, um, did a 10 part podcast series.
On 10 separate things you have
to do if you find yourself
in an enforcement action.
And I use those 10 podcasts to form the
basis of 10 separate chapters for my book.
So, uh, it's a wide
variety of, of ways there.
Conversion is how do you convert somebody
from a top of the funnel, listener,
engager, going behind your gated website,
whatever it may be to a customer.
So that's a different track as well.
I got one in there somewhere.
Um, but I'll think
VictoriaM: Well, Tom, I'm gonna, I've
got a little bit to learn from you
because I do have some books on my
horizon, um, leaning in, obviously, to
what I've done with the podcast, so,
uh, you know, but you are way far ahead
of me on that, so I'm going to have
to, um, learn some of your wisdom and
methodologies, but I agree with you.
I mean, I think, uh, Podcasting has a huge
influence on business, and I certainly
see it with the folks I interview,
with the conversations I have, with the
relationships I've built, um, across
the industry and, you know, one of the
things that always amazes me when I, um,
when I talk to people, number one, just
how personal it is, not just about me,
but about the leader and the number of
times I've had, um, People tell me, oh,
yeah, I listened to one of your podcast
episodes when I was going to interview
with that company or with that leader,
and I understand a lot more, um, because
you understand a lot more now, I would
tell you in the world of compliance, uh,
if this falls into a compliance category.
Um, there's a lot of leaders that
are still concerned about being on
a podcast, certainly in the chemical
industry, because, um, corporate
communications doesn't want to
invest relations is afraid of it.
But, you know, as as you and I
talked about before we got started,
this is a friendly conversation.
You know, there are no state secrets.
It is not investigative journalism.
Uh, if you're looking
for that look elsewhere.
Tom Fox: So let me give you
the best answer to that.
VictoriaM: Yeah.
Tom Fox: Uh, I read about a company
that started an internal podcast for
company employees only, and it was senior
executives on whatever the topics were.
And it turned out that the podcast
was hugely successful and not
for the reason they started it.
It was successful because it humanized
the ELT, who most people had never met.
I mean, when I was in Halliburton, I think
I knew one of 10 people on the ELT and
that's because he was the general counsel
and I was in the legal department, but it
actually drove positive corporate culture.
Because they felt like they had a
relationship with those people and
that they could sit down literally.
And if not talk to them, they could
listen to them talk on a podcast.
So, uh, it can be a great boon
for your corporate culture.
If your leaders talk about themselves,
VictoriaM: Love it.
Love it.
Tom, this has been fun.
Um, where can people find you and your
podcasts and your podcast network?
Tom Fox: They can find the
Podcast Network at www.
compliancepodcastnetwork.
net.
Uh, you can find me on
LinkedIn at Thomas R.
Fox.
You can email me at tfoxx at tfoxxlaw.
com or you can call me at 832 744 0264.
If you've thought about having a
podcast, um, I'd love to talk to you.
Or if you just want to chit
chat, I'd love to talk to you.
VictoriaM: Awesome.
Love it.
Tom, thank you so much.
And thank you everyone
today for joining us.
Keep listening, keep following,
keep sharing, and we'll
talk with you again soon.