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Join Dr. Kim Kutsch, the brilliant mind behind CariFree, as he explores the extraordinary lives of thought leaders in the dental industry, and beyond. Contrary to Ordinary explores further than dentistry - here we unravel the minds of change-makers, paradigm shifters, and world shakers.
Every two weeks, we dive into the stories of our remarkable guests—ordinary people who continually defy limits. Discover their tales of success, resilience, and self-awareness, and explore how they leverage these experiences not only to elevate dental practice and patient care but also to champion personal growth and entrepreneurship. Listen for captivating conversations with innovators who seamlessly blend art and technology, pursue curiosity, and create the truly extraordinary.
Contrary to Ordinary isn't your typical dentistry podcast—it's a vibrant community that's hit #1 in ‘Entrepreneurship,’ #3 in ‘Business,’ and #21 in ‘All Podcasts’ for a reason. We've had the pleasure of hosting inspiring guests like innovators, dental leaders, pioneering inventors, and artists, including Angus Walls, Machell Hudson, Dr. Simon McDonald, Dr. Bobby Birdi, Rella Christensen, Professor Phillip D. Marsh, Carmen Ohling, John Kois, Dr. Susan Maples, Doug Young, Colt Idol, Stephanie Staples, and many more who've graced our mic.
Each episode isn't just a listen; it's a lesson in living an extraordinary life authentically, embracing rebellion, and nurturing leadership. We dive into diverse topics, from mentoring, coaching, personal development, and work-life balance to self-awareness, emotional intelligence, leadership, storytelling, altruism, and motivation. And yes, we also cover dentistry—exploring natural dentists, dental health, dental laboratories, oral care, oral surgery, dental hygiene, caries disease, brushing teeth, and overall tooth care.
Tune in to Contrary to Ordinary for a unique blend of wisdom that goes beyond the ordinary and resonates with all aspects of life! This podcast aims to empower you to be extraordinary in your dental practice and improve not just your dental care but your overall life!
Do you have an extraordinary story you’d like to share with us? Or perhaps a question for Dr. Kutsch. Contact us on our Instagram, Facebook or Twitter today.
About Our Host:
Meet Dr. Kim Kutsch: a retired dentist with 40 years of experience, prolific writer, thought leader, inventor, and researcher in dental caries and minimally invasive dentistry, brings his insatiable curiosity to the forefront. Eager to learn from those breaking boundaries in dentistry, particularly in preventative and non-invasive dentistry approaches, Dr. Kutsch launched the Contrary to Ordinary podcast. As a keen creative and curious mind, Dr. Kutsch extends his podcast guest list to artists, entrepreneurs, and fascinating minds who have piqued his interest. He wants to learn from them and see how he can be inspired by their extraordinary ways of living and adapt his learnings into his own life and his business, CariFree.
About CariFree:
CariFree is the new model for oral health and cavity prevention. Dr. Kutsch is the CEO and founder of this business. They create cutting-edge technology and science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family, making it easy to banish cavities for good with preventive strategies over restorative procedures. Find out how dentists are using CariFree products to revolutionize their dental practices here: https://carifree.com/success-stories/.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I think I have an answer, what I would tell a 25-year-old. The shots that you don't take, you never make a goal, if you don't take the shot. In other words, you got to try things. Have fun, love. Find somebody, love somebody, love yourself, accept yourself, travel, smell the roses. Don't take it too seriously. Don't just get hung up on putting your margins under a microscope and love your patients.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
This week, I'm speaking with the phenomenal Dr. Steve Lamberg, one of the world's leading experts in dental sleep medicine. This field explores the critical roles that sleep and breathing play in maintaining our health, well-being, and even our survival. Steve has been practicing dentistry on Long Island for over 45 years, where he runs the Snoring and Sleep Apnea Dental Treatment Center alongside his general practice. Steve is also an author and you can find a link to his book, Treat the Cause... Treat the Airway: The Role of Snoring & Sleep Apnea in Contemporary Preventive Medicine, in this episode's show notes. Dental sleep medicine is a relatively new field. To be at the forefront of such an evolving subject area, extraordinary people like Steve must possess unique qualities that enable them to stay ahead of the curve.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Leonardo da Vinci talks about those seven characteristics and curiosity is one of the big ones.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
If your curious, I'm just curious. I want to know how does it relate to all the organs? What is oxidative stress really?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
What is the mitochondria's role? And then so I started studying it and writing an article for Carstensen, for DSP, and I find it to be just fun to do that stuff. So when I teach, I'm just sharing some of my findings from my journey. Pretty much. I'm not going and taking this seminar and that seminar and that seminar and then mimicking that. I go off on my own and fulfill my curiosity.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You have a tremendous amount of drive, Steve, and I think that's obvious to anybody that knows you. Have you always had that drive? Has that been with you throughout life or is this something that you've cultivated or...?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yes.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Tell me about that.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah. I always had it when I... I used to race sailboats. That was a passion of mine when I was in my early 30s. It's been in different areas in my life. And it's only in the last 25 years, when I discovered the airway thing. I just thought this was the coolest thing in the world because it was in my own backyard. It's what I've been working with all these elements my whole life, and it was like there was a blind spot there. And once I started studying it, I realized everybody has to know this stuff. We could have spread it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay. So you really got focused on airway and looking back at your career, do you kind of have a feeling or a sense that you were preparing or being prepared for that moment of when you finally saw the airway issue, that it was clear to you?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
No, not at all. I like the question and it blindsided me, totally. I was open when it came in front of me to see it. I was, for many years, involved with cosmetic dentistry, the New York Chapter of the AACD. I chaired that for a year. I was super involved in cosmetic dentistry and I thought that was the coolest thing, making beautiful teeth.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right. Beautiful smiles.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah. Anyway, to make a long story short, I had a neighbor, patient, physician, and he had a snoring problem and he just came in one day and wanted me to help him, and I didn't know anything about it. And that was right after the 2002, three, something like that.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Uh-huh.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Anything I did, I got all in. And it just seemed like I was going on this path from first Dawson and then Kois, but then I got interrupted. I didn't take the whole continuum with John because I had that patient and I discovered that I needed to learn about airway. And that's when I went out to Salt Lake City and went to an Academy of Dental Sleep Medicine meeting and it blew me away. It was June in Park City, and believe it or not, there were 750 dentists in a room studying dental sleep medicine. I never even really heard of it before, to be honest with you.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I didn't know an apnea from a hypopnea, from the snoring, from airway resistance.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It's like a whole new world opened up to you.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah, it's like, what happened? It's like you lift up a rock and there's all sorts of things crawling. I found some mentors there, and the mentors were fun.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
It's funny you said, you mentioned the word, all in, and I was actually going to make that observation that whether you were talking about racing sailboats or whatever it was that you were doing in your life, I see you as a person who is always, whatever it is that you're doing, you're all in, right? You're passionate about it and you give everything your best effort. So excellence is really a strong value to you too. Would you say that's fair?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah. Yeah. Not perfection.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
No, no. And there's a difference. So how would you define the difference? Let's talk about that then for a second, because I think a lot of us get hung up on perfection that we think that excellence or exceptionalism or extraordinary is about being perfect.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Right. That's an interesting conversation there because I think it's a personality disorder.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Perfectionism?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah. Perfectionism.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I think that identifies a disorder because it just depends what magnification you're using. You'll find something wrong.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah, that's really a humbling experience.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
A photograph of what you think is the most beautiful dentistry you've done and then when you teach and you blow that up to eight feet large on a screen in front of an audience of 400, you suddenly see things that you couldn't see when you were looking through your loops in the mouth, right?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Right.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Or even when you were looking at a life-sized photograph. I mean, when you blow it up 300 times and look at it, it's like, "Oh." It's kind of, it can be quite humbling, right?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you shoot for excellent, not perfection.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah, you shoot for the moon.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Uh-huh.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
As long as it's excellent, you have to judge that. Every man judges that for himself, I think.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
You have to.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So what does success look like to you? How would you define success?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
A little bit better than the last time I did something.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Uh-huh.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
If it just keeps getting a little bit better.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So you're always looking for incremental improvement?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
A little bit better every time, yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. Has your idea or your kind of definition for success for yourself, has that changed over the years and if so, how?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I think so. I think I've come to realize that there's a person on the other side of the teeth, and I didn't use to do that. I was hooked on the porcelain or the conclusion, and I didn't realize how important it was to have that connection to the person and that's really made a big difference. They don't teach you that in dental school. I think you just have to get older to learn that, unless some people might be prodigies.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think in our profession there's a real tendency to focus on the mechanical aspect of the teeth and forget that we're treating a human being that's connected to those teeth. The mouth is part of the body and actually, what we do influences the entire body, right? What are some of the key insights about treating that whole person that you wish that you knew earlier?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I wish that I had the concept that, what is the point of what we're doing? What's our focus? Really, what is our goal? Okay, so science informs dentistry, I get it. And then we do better dentistry. Why? Who are we doing it for? Or to make ourselves feel good, to make the other person feel good, to make them function better, to make them feel better, to make their total body healthier.
So I'm starting to understand that there's a little bit of coaching that's involved here, coaching the patient too. Because if they don't appreciate their health, if they're smoking a half a pack of cigarettes a day and they're eating shit, and they don't exercise and they have a BMI of 35 and they're 55 years old and they look like crap, you go in there to teach them about airway and broaden their arch and straighten their teeth...
What's the point if you can't help them understand or appreciate the health? So a part of what... I think we have to be a little bit of a therapist sometimes. Put it out there. And if they don't like to do that, then it might not be a good fit.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
That's all.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Are we treating the patient above the ears or below the ears? Steve might be talking here about guiding a patient toward better health outcomes, but it's also worth noting how this approach can help anyone assess every area of their life and make holistic improvements. People have been mentoring and coaching each other forever, but it was in the 20th century that coaching became more professional, thanks to a number of new programs and courses that began to gain popularity.
One coaching model that has truly stood the test of time is the G-R-O-W, the Grow Method developed by author and British racing drivers, Sir John Whitmore and his colleagues. The Grow Method helps clients concentrate on their goals and identify the steps needed to achieve them. It also prompts them to consider the realities and factors they must address along the way.
For more information on the Grow Method, check out the link in the show notes. Steve might have not set out with the goal of creating a new product, but he created the revolutionary Lamberg SleepWell Appliance in 2014. How did he do it? Good old-fashioned trial and error.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
The doc I told you about who had a snoring problem, he wanted an appliance to treat the snoring, and I had done two appliances for snoring patients before that, and the patients didn't like them. It happened to be the Klearway appliance by Great Lakes, just a big high rack screw. It was like wearing ski boots in your mouth.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Uh-huh.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
And both patients brought it back to me and said they can't wear it after one week. And I said, "Okay. That's all I got."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
So now what? Now what?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I called Great Lakes. I said, "Give me the best thing you got." So now what? So I didn't have a solution for them. I didn't realize there's all these different things and they might've had other problems. I didn't collect any data. I was making them a snoring appliance. I didn't know how to submit it to insurance. I was charging them, giving them their money back when they were unhappy because that's...
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Sure.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
You know? And then paying the lab because the lab made it and I'm losing money every... This was the third patient, doctor friend, and he came in and I said, "I don't treat snoring. Go somewhere else."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I can't afford to treat it.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah. I explained the story.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I work in a town that's a small harbor town on the north shore of Long Island and he knew the other two guys. Actually, we were in a book club together.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
All of us. So it was kind of fun. And so this guy, I sat down with him and I said, "This is why I'm not going to do it for you because of that experience I had." He said, "How about this? I'll pay all the lab bills." And I'm thinking, "Oh. At least I'll break even here. I won't make any money."
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
He didn't offer to pay me anything, but he's going to pay the lab bills. I'm thinking, I'm going in the right direction. So I made him about six different appliances. I found some other labs and made some different appliances. He hated them all. He just hated them all. So then I was frustrated. I didn't know what to do with him, but I started to understand that they just advanced the mandible, pulled the tongue forward. I started to feel what was going on here. And so I just went to my closet and I got an NTI device, that type of-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
You don't remember the NTI things?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
So I made one and I formed a little stalactite coming down to push the lower jaw out, and he said, "That's pretty nice. I think I can wear that." And then he came back the next day. He said, "My two front teeth are sore." Because there's pressure there. So I went to the canine to canine. And then he said his lower front teeth were sore. So I made him a suck down on the bottom. He said, "I like it." And I looked at it and I thought, "That's ugly." It's really horrible looking. I can't be making this for other people. And he said, "Well, I'm going to wear this. My wife's happy and it's comfortable for me." So I really had no idea what I was doing.
So then one thing led to another. I have a lawyer friend who said maybe we should put in a provisional patent. I said, "What should I do?" He said, "Just draw a bunch of pictures." So in order to be undisturbed, I went to the library. I actually I sat down one night and I started drawing pictures. I had templates of teeth and I was drawing the NTI, different versions, and they started flicking the lights on and off on me. I had to close it up and they wanted to kick us out. And then I thought, what about if I use a different deprogrammer? What if I tried adopting the Kois Deprogrammer? Because then, it wouldn't put any pressure so much on the teeth. It would put more on the hard palate.
And then it was like, holy shit, that was an amazing idea, that it just happened. It just happened. So I started drawing it and I realized when I was drawing it, that was where I was going. And the next day, I called up John and I said, "I just want to let you know I'm developing an oral appliance and I'd like to build it on the platform of the Kois Deprogrammer, the concept of the Kois Deprogrammer." Obviously, the lower jaw has to come forward and there has to be a protrusive element, which I'm working on it.
He said, "Have it. You can use whatever you want. There's no intellectual property." They've been using these anterior point stops in Europe for 50 years before that. So there's nothing patentable about a deprogrammer. So I said, "Thank you very much." And I hung up, and that was 2003, I think. And one thing led to another. I got hooked up with Space Maintainers Lab and they liked it. And the owners of the lab started wearing it and they liked it was simple, didn't have much breakage, so they started making it for me, and the rest of it developed. It's still developing. We're still making little tweaks to it.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And so that's been going on for 21 years.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah, yeah. Something like that. The patents, I think I got the patent around 2010, is when I finally got the patent. It takes about three years to get a patent, and then you have to get the FDA, which is another thing.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. You know, it's interesting hearing you go through that process.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Because I think it's important for people to understand. A lot of people will have an idea, "Oh, I got this great idea for a product or whatever." And then they never really act on it. And the people that do act on it, it's a tremendous amount of work.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right? It doesn't happen overnight. I think people have... We have a tendency to look at somebody like you and go, "Oh, gosh. That Steve's so lucky. He invented that appliance. He's got it made. Oh, I'd sure trade places with him." And we don't appreciate the 80-hour weeks that it took and the years that it took to go through the prototyping, the expense of following through on a passion and a belief and an idea that you had, to actually take it from an idea to a finished product that can... Really, that's in the marketplace and can help people.
For every finished product, there's years of work and development typically behind that and a lot of human energy that went in to make that happen. And I think it's really important for people to understand, but it can be done. Not to discourage anybody, right? If you have an idea and you're passionate about it, my advice is go for it, follow it, do it, pursue it. And you have to be all in to make it happen. But recognizing, there's a tremendous amount that goes on behind the scene and the development of ideas and products. It doesn't just happen overnight. It's not easy.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
It's still happening. It's still changing. It never ends.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
And at this point, I would love to have you be able to make the appliance in your office. In other words-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
With a 3D printer or something and...
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Why send it to a lab and wait two or three weeks for it to come back.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
If you have a printer in your office and you can send me the scans, I'll have some designers that you don't want to do that. That's work. Let these designers get paid X amount of dollars to do the designs and then they send you back the file. You just plug into your printer and you do it yourself the same day.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. That's amazing.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
So that's where it's going. I think that's the future of all these appliances.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
It doesn't make sense to mail it back and forth.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. We can electronically send files back and forth and then print them in real time in your office. It's interesting where that's headed. It's happening in fact, quickly. The development of all that has really happened a lot in the last five years.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Totally. New, better materials are being developed. Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Hey, contrary to ordinary listeners, I want to tell you about my company CariFree. We offer affordable science-based solutions to common dental health concerns for the whole family. Banish cavities for good and welcome in a Healthy smile and a great first impression. Visit carifree.com for more details. Now, back to the show. What advice would you give your 25-year-old self, Steve?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Wow. How much time do I have for that one?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You got all day.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Boy, that would be be great. That's a great question. That's a very thoughtful question.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think... Yeah, and that's why I asked it.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I'm impressed with that question.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
You've got 45 years of experience in dentistry and life, and living.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And the point of the question was to draw out a couple of things. Number one, what kind of stuff would you tell yourself. If you could look back and go, I wish I knew that earlier in my life, or, here's a piece of advice that I'd love to give myself when I was 25. But also, the second part of that question for me really, Steve is, okay, you take a young dentist that's listening to this podcast or a young entrepreneur business person who's listening to this podcast, you're somebody that has a tremendous amount of experience in business. You're an inventor, you're an author, you've done all that... You're an educator. You're a recognized, internationally recognized expert in dental sleep medicine. What kind of advice do you give to a young person right now?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Well, that's a different question than what would I give myself?
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I know, but it's-
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
But it's easier.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
But it's two sides of the same coin.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Okay.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
I think I have an answer, what I would tell a 25-year-old.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Okay.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
The shots that you don't take, you never make a goal, if you don't take the shot. In other words, you got to try things. And if you have something in your head that you think needs to be done, if you have something that turns you on, that you find... Some people might be excited about looking for mesiobuccal canals and upper molars. That never excited me. I did it because I thought we had to do that. You're a dentist, you have to do root canal. It just didn't turn me on. But I guess if I was an endodontist, that could be fun.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
You know what? I'll tell you what, about me. I'll turn it to me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Because if I had things to do over again right now with what I know, if I could go back in time, I would've told, I think I would've steered myself into orthodontics because I think ortho is so critical.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Uh-huh. It certainly is. We're starting to appreciate growth and development and airway.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah, but I couldn't have known that then because I didn't-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
No.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
... know about relationship between airway and orthodontics.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Until 10 years ago.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. I don't think many of us appreciated that when you and I were 25. But any other just general advice about career, life, et cetera?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Have fun.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Have fun.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Love. Find somebody, love somebody, love yourself, accept yourself.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Uh-huh.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
And travel. Smell the roses. Don't take it too seriously.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah. Your margins. Don't just get hung up on putting your margins under a microscope.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
And love your patients. Get to know your patients, care about your patients. They're real people. They're just like us.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Don't sweat the small stuff has been a familiar phrase in American culture for a while, but it's author and psychotherapist, Richard Carlson, who really brought it to the forefront with his book, Don't Sweat the Small Stuff and It's All Small Stuff. Carlson suggests that the path to a more peaceful and fulfilling life involves focusing on the bigger picture, letting go of perfectionism and appreciating what you have. While this advice is straightforward, it's easy to overlook, especially when we get wrapped up in our careers. Steve particularly feels that dentists often don't take enough time to enjoy the rewards of their hard work.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Dentists have to have pleasure, a lot more pleasure in life. I know a lot of guys work really hard in their office, but they have to go out and do other things. It makes life experience more rich.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I think we have a tendency to get focused on work and not just in dentistry, but in all careers.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
We tend to get focused on work and then we tend to put off doing things, pleasure, travel, and someday I'll go there. Someday I'll... This might ring a bell with you. I had patients, I'll never forget, I had patients that I treated them for years and then I got them ready, "Oh, Doc, I'm going to retire next year." And so I would make sure that we got all their dentistry, they were totally caught up and they were ready for retirement, and they'd put off doing all these things in their life until they retired. And I can't tell you how many times within the first month that I saw them retired, I read their obituary in the newspaper, and I was devastated and crushed that they didn't get to do all those things that they had put off and planned for so long.
And so I think it really drives home the point of, it's great to have a career, it's great to be dedicated, it's great to do all that. And we talk about the work-life balance. I've talked about that a lot on my podcast and the fallacy of the work-life balance and the seasonality of life. But I think at all times, it's really important to appreciate every day and take the time to make sure that you're having fun. You mentioned having fun. Make sure that you're having fun along the way, right? That it isn't just all work or career, but to make sure that you're having a good time because we all have a death date and none of us know what that day is, right?
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
No.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Every day is such a gift that I think it's really important for us to enjoy just every day. I think you bring up a really solid point there, Steve.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
And a piece of advice for the 25-year-old dentist that's listening-
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
... share that with your employees.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Oh, right.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Because I think we don't appreciate our employees as much as we should. And once you do, and you love them because they're there for you. They're not working under you in a restaurant somewhere. They love to come to work for you. You have to love them and make it an environment. And I think once you have employees that trust you and love you back, then you have an environment where the patients will pick that energy up. And energy that you share with your staff and your patients, that becomes your North Star and that just will make you so much more happy in life, I think. That's a lesson that I had to learn. I didn't know that when I was 25.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Yeah. That's a great piece of advice. Well, Steve, thank you so much for being with us here today.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Thank you. Thanks, Kim.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
I absolutely enjoyed talking to you about all these... Of course, I can get real geeky on all this science and stuff.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Yeah.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
And I enjoy that, but I really appreciate all the work that you've put into this, to really advance our knowledge, because at the end of the day, it helps thousands, if not millions of people, have a healthier life.
Dr. Steve Lamberg:
Oh, thank you for having me.
Dr. Kim Kutsch:
Thank you so much, Dr. Steve Lamberg for joining me today. And thank you for going on an inspiring journey with me. Around here, we aim to inspire and create connection. We can't do it without you. If this conversation moved you, made you smile or scratched that little itch of curiosity today, please share it with the extraordinary people in your life. And if you do one thing today, let it be extraordinary.