Ep. 79: In Depth Discussion on Canada’s Handgun Ban

Travis Bader and Dan Fritter, owner of Calibre Magazine, go deep into the current Canadian handgun ban and what you can do about it.  This is a must listen for any firearms owner in Canada and contains equally important information for all firearms owners worldwide.

 

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If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to Calibre Magazine for amazing Canadian Firearms Content, link below.

 

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The link mentioned in this podcast where you will be able to review and comment on the bill may not be published due to Mendicino's request that the regs not be pre-published in the Gazette. If they do get published, you can find them here: https://gazette.gc.ca/consult/consult-eng.html 

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

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Silvercore Club and community,
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Dan, thank you for coming back
on the Silvercore Podcast.

I know we've been talking
about this for a while.

It's unfortunate.

We're going to be talking about a bit
of a bleak matter, but you always tend

to be able to shed a little bit of Ray
of logic and reason on these things.

So I'm really, really excited to hear your
opinion and hear your take on what's been

going on in Canada's firearms industry.

Always have your Travis.

So a lot's happened a lot's
happened recently with the, the

handguns with the, um, the freeze.

I like how they call it a freeze.

It's a, it's very Canadian,
very, uh, very Canadian.

Yeah.

We'll just get all chili up here.

We'll just put a bit of
a freeze on the handguns.

A freeze implies.

It could thought at some
point, but somehow I don't

think that's the intention.

Uh, and then, you know, Silvercore
Club, we've been inundated with

calls from people and emails,
people saying they're getting.

Information from some very reliable
sources about a, uh, a possible

stopping of transferring of firearms
prior to the freeze coming into effect.

And you've got some
thoughts on that as well.

I'm hoping these are just rumors
and I'd love to hear your two

bits on, on everything here.

Well, I guess to dive right into
the thing, think isn't it got swept.

People are probably the most, um,
interested or curious about, uh,

go back to the original groundwork.

Uh, we have bill C 21 and some
conjoined regulations that have

been tabled in proposal format.

Um, what that means is there's the
actual bill, which stipulates in very

clear language that when that bill
passes, which means three readings

in the house, three readings in
the Senate, Royal assent that no

individual will be issued a registration
certificate for a restricted firearm

effectively, meaning you cannot get.

Another handgun.

Um, the regulations attached to it
are a much shorter document and to

be very clear, cause a lot of calm
confusion about regulations and OICs

and people discussing this stuff.

Regulations are passed by OIC.

Um, they are not law, they are
laws, but again, a bill and a

regulation are two different things.

That's why we have the firearms act.

And then we have the
firearms act regulations.

Um, regulations are just passed
by OAC, which means there

are privy council document.

So it's, it's literally the, the little
council around the prime minister's

office that author these, uh, we've seen
a leaked copy of it from the parliamentary

library signed off by mark Amanda Tino.

That was tabled, um, on the
Monday, I believe it was, uh,

interestingly that that document
was actually authored on May 13th.

So you get an idea of the timeline here.

It's probably not as extended
as people thought, the

regulations, the bills stipulate.

So you can't be issued a certificate.

The regulations stipulate that they will.

Approved transfers.

Now there's been a lot of confusion about
the coming into force, these regulations.

Um, I've heard the rumors, a lot of
them are pertaining to the notion that

the government will try and pass an
emergency order of some sort I've heard it

referred to as an emergency order of her
referred to as an emergency injunction.

Um, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't really
understand either of those terms, but

I do understand regulations and bills.

I'm not really sure.

Um, what they're exactly planning.

They could obviously within government,
per year, they can do whatever

they want with this sort of stuff.

They could OIC immediately a
transfer and they could just call

CFOs and say, just stop doing it.

You know, um, they are either a
federal employee or they work under

a federal mandate in every case.

So they do have the tools to do this.

Um, as a news guy, I got to refer
back to just the plain old public

safety documents as fall of 2022.

And to explain why that was happening.

Um, parliamentary tabling requirements is
what the public safety document refers to.

Preventing these regulations from
coming into place immediately.

That's a reference to the standard
process for regulations to pass, which

means a 30 day consultation period.

They tabled them.

There's actually a website where you
can actually go and comment on them.

Um, It's it's great.

Probably travels to put
a link to that there.

And when the regulations are posted you at
30 days to comment on them, usually, and

then after the 30 days they pass into law,
but it just kind of automatically, there's

no sitting in the house, there's no
readings or committees, nothing like that.

Um, why it was going to be falls
cause there's only 20 days left

in the parliamentary calendar.

So we have 20 days, parliament
would pro road for the summer

break and then 10 days in the fall.

And then those regulations be expected
to pass into law sometime in October.

Um, unfortunately most of these are rumors
are hinges around the notion that the

government is pretty displeased with the.

Um, pretty large increase in
firearm sales to civilians

throughout these last few days.

Um, and maybe looking to quash that
pretty much immediately, I will admit as

someone who works in the industry, I don't
frankly understand why so many people

that work alongside me in this industry
had the need to kind of poke their finger

right in the government's eye and say
how we're selling a ton of handguns,

all of a sudden, uh, didn't seem wise.

Um, it's one of those situations where,
you know, if the government shows

you their hand and they say, this is
what we're doing, No work around it.

Don't this adversarial
attitude is not always great.

And as far as the industry goes, I think
it's also a little bit unprofessional.

Um, you know, if you were to consult,
uh, any kind of professional public

relations firm or a consultant like
that, they would tell, you know, don't,

don't go making a fight out of something
that they're not trying to fight you on.

Just do what you can in the
meantime, strategize, et cetera.

I mean, sun zoo would not say, yeah,
just go stick your finger right in

the eye right away when you don't
know what the hell is going on.

So I think for some people,
it feels like a win.

Hey, look at we're winning screw.

You poke you in the eye, look at what
we're doing, but maybe that's not the war.

It's the dumbest thing like that attitude.

It's just, it's so cost for industry.

And moreover it completely skips a very
valid point, which is there, there has

been no increase in handguns in Canada,
this, this massive surge in sales there

for two, all I hate to tell you this
businesses, you bought these guns already.

Like these guns already.

When I do an interview with other
media outlets and they say, has

there been a massive surge in gun
sales, this stuff to the end users?

Yes.

And last week, but those
guns already exist in Canada

and will be sold eventually.

Anyways, this is not, this
is just stacking the sales

at a more rapid fashion.

It isn't, it doesn't represent an
increase in firearms in Canada.

That should have been the messaging
from day one that, you know, these are

not guns are being imported, et cetera.

And I think that would have probably
been a smarter tactic to take,

uh, to really highlight, you know,
kind of the play of the business.

And I mean, moreover, we have so little
time with media to make our points.

Why waste a single minute saying things
like Justin, Trudeau's the gun salesman of

the year that doesn't do anything for us.

It doesn't advance our argument.

It doesn't, it doesn't
change a mind anywhere.

Um, maybe it makes people think poorly
of Justin Trudeau if they really hate

guns, but it doesn't, it doesn't do
us any favors to that kind of stuff.

It's again, just needlessly
adversarial in an issue that's over

80 hyper-partisan, uh, we're much
better off speaking to things like,

you know, this is a waste of resources.

Every customer is buying a gun has
literally been checked that they are not

going to be a violent criminal every day.

Highlight those things.

Don't highlight.

Yeah.

I'm making a ton of money right now.

That just it's it seemed like it was
in pretty poor taste in a lot of cases.

Yeah.

Pretty counterproductive.

Uh, so, uh, the rumor was 1400
Eastern time today, but from what I

understand, uh, I'm looking at the watch.

Now that's going to be in about 40 minutes
and, but most likely not going to happen.

Uh, but the fact that that
rumor is on the table.

I'm wondering where he gets his legs from.

And if there is some chatter in the back
end, because I do know that the civil

servants will talk in the back end about
things that they would like to see happen.

And they took call it a normative process.

I had to think like you and I talked about
that one in the pack, smooth fires off.

So he says, politicians,
they don't make the laws.

We make the laws and we do it
through normative process and we'll

enact our policy in a certain way.

So that, uh, regulation follows.

Um, I guess if there is chatter going
around, I wonder if people are feeling,

if it's just straight up rumors or
people are feeling somewhat comfortable

in saying these things, because that's
sort of on possibly on the docket.

No, I think this is.

So for me personally, just so people
know from a news perspective, like my

typical process, either I need to speak
to a source directly, so I can validate

that sources, uh, efficacy myself.

Um, and you know, that's, that's
done me well in the last 10 years.

Uh, the other alternative is
to try and find three sources.

Like if I can't get someone,
that'll go on record.

Like if there's an RCP offices, I,
you know, I've got this information,

that'll tell you, but I can't,
I can't give you my name for

publication, then I'll say, great.

I need to hear from a couple of
other people that you can direct

me to potentially, or I'll try
and find them independently.

That's the best thing you can do is
find the independent sources to confirm

that and say, look, this isn't for,
I'm not going to publish your name.

You can be anonymous, but I need to
know personally before I publish it.

So that's why we haven't reported
on any of the rumors, because

I can't, no one's willing to
substantiate this in any way to me.

But, um, on the other hand, when
kind of judging the veracity

of these things, I do look for
specifically, that's a really good.

Indicator I've found historically.

Uh, so a lot of times when, when, when an
industry is trying to, like, for example,

let's just cut straight to the chase.

If this is the industry trying to push
a room to sell a bunch of guns, they

would generally be pretty vague about it.

You'd hear all the others,
probably something coming soon.

And you saw that initially there were
people that were saying that like,

all this could happen immediate.

It could happen any day.

Well, governments don't
do things on any day.

It is very planned out.

It is scheduled.

You name it.

Um, so those sorts of rumors are
usually an indicator of someone's

opinion being expressed as fact.

But when you start to hear very specific
rumors like today at 11:00 AM Eastern

time, that makes me very nervous
because people tend not to when people

fabricate things, they automatically
default to a very vague thing because

it makes it harder to get caught.

No one wants to say 11:00 AM.

They're going to ban these
things because at 1105, you know,

they're full of crap, right?

I mean, we'll know now 35 minutes, but,
um, it's, it's impossible to really

say for now I'm stuck in that situation
where like, I hear the rumors, I can't

confirm them, but they do scare me.

And I don't think this
is just the industry.

And moreover, I would point out to
any consumer that, like, it's almost a

moot point because if it happens today
at 11:00 AM Eastern, or it happens

in October, it's happening, this is,
we are in the fight for basically

the future of handguns in Canada.

You can't pass it down to your kids.

You can't compete.

And if sick, you can't compete in
cowboy shooting anymore from now on

that's that's the world we live in
and we need to confront that reality

and start wrapping our heads around.

Well, how do we, how are
we going to combat this?

If we want to get the ability to
transfer handguns back, we already need

to be thinking that this is the law.

Uh, you know, don't think, oh, in the
fall, we'll start addressing this problem.

And again, this is more relating back
to that professionalism within the

industry and even within our advocacy of.

See the bigger picture, stop seeing trees
start seeing forests and start acting

like we're in that forest, trying to find
a path through it because we just keep

walking into tree after tree, after tree.

Well, you know, there there's always
been, well, it doesn't affect me.

I just, I'm a shotgun shooter.

I'm a rifle shooter.

This is just handguns.

And the big buzz around all of
this is handguns, but we're also

talking about five round magazine
restrictions to all five things.

Right.

So that's, uh, you know, th th
there's your lever action, your

30, 30, your cowboy action, uh,
person, there's your hunters.

Um, this affects everybody in the
sporting and firearms industry.

Absolutely.

Um, and I think that's, it's interesting.

I mean, again, thinking about the
forest for the trees argument,

like that argument, that it
doesn't affect me as a gain.

One of those myopic, you know, I just
see a tree in front of me that says

they're painting handguns, and I'm not
seeing what they're doing, which is.

You know, uh, basically I would say
probably what five years ago, a liberal

party firearm policy became divorced from
crime prevention and became more issue of,

um, political gain to be well, not more
of, it became an issue of political gain.

This law, every one of the gun license
very has very salient ideas on the

fact of whether or not this law
impacts any kind of criminal activity.

And it obviously doesn't
cause I mean, it's worded.

So as to be limited to those of us
that have licenses, um, So you have

to just go like again, see the forest
for the trees and go in reality.

I know they're not going after criminals.

So what is their objective here?

Well, they're clearly going after
gun ownership, so they obviously have

the opinion that gun ownership is
something that they need to combat.

Why do they need to combat on our ship?

Well, Hmm.

Probably not because they hate us.

This attitude, that gun
owners are the victims.

It's not because they hate us.

I don't think Justin Shirley
even knows who the heck I am.

They certainly doesn't know.

They don't care.

We're a means to go one way or the other.

Exactly.

And we are just a means to an end
for these politicians for political

gain and to be very clear, it's the
same thing for the conservatives.

We are the means to an end for them.

They see the counter-argument
is potentially helping.

We need to kind of accept that
own it and make it work for us.

We can't just keep, there's no
point in having debates about the

validity or veracity of a law and its
ability to impact criminal behavior

when it was never created for that.

Um, and it's really important to
drive that home because until people

kind of understand that it, it feels
like a fundamental thing that people

can't get your head around that man.

You're, you're not really going
to get a lot of traction or, or

get to any kind of goals that you
want to get to in this debate.

Hm.

So accept it and make it work.

Yeah.

Some people would say, so what
you eat, you just roll over

and you just let it happen.

And know, for example, I think
that's what you're saying.

No, to be very blunt.

No.

Um, but I also think it's one
of those, you know, you can't

solve a problem without first,
uh, recognizing you've got one.

And I think gun owners have
for a long time now thought

that we have the wrong problem.

They think, we think that in many cases,
we're up against the government that

is trying to stop crime that is trying
to, you know, save lives, et cetera.

Just stop.

Just stop thinking that is, has anything
to do with anything with their gunfire.

It's about winning urban
ridings and creating a massive

ledge for the conservatives.

Because to be very blunt, this
entire law, it won't affect

any kind of criminals life.

But what it will do is the next federal
election, hopefully in 2023, because it's

government doesn't seem super stable.

Um, uh, a journalist will eventually
stand up and he will ask the conservative

candidate of record, probably peer
polio based on membership sales.

Are you going to give
people back their hands?

Are you going to give people
back their AR fifteens?

Are you going to put assault weapons
in handguns, back in Canadian?

And he's going to have to answer
that question because of this law.

That's what it's for.

This is, this is a setup is effectively
what it is, and it wouldn't be surprised

to be honest, to see 21 is a law just
completely fades away on the writ, um,

and is replaced by either a two-year
or a less severe version thereof

based on what their internal polling
shows them so that they can carry this

wage forward into the next election,
just like they did with Erin O'Toole.

I mean, we all remember Aaronow tools,
stammering from the . I don't know.

We, we won't let people have those,
you know, they're, they're setting

that up again because it's a great
wedge for the conservative party

to, uh, to have to deal with.

So if we don't accept that, if people
don't see that as the problem, and

we continue to address it from this
kind of moral, ethical perspectives,

and I like gun owners for you guys,
I love you guys for that perspective.

Cause it's, it's what I'm like.

I, you know, justice, honesty,
morals, integrity save lives, right?

Um, But unless you recognize that's
not, we're up against, uh, it's a

bit like stepping into the ring and
not knowing the rules of the game.

Um, you know, like if you walk into an
MMA fight thinking that you're boxing

it, ain't going to go the way you plan.

Right?

So we need to have that attitude of,
okay, we see what we're dealing with.

Let's deal with it.

And I think to be quite blunt, a lot
of people dealing with this, they

think that there are solutions to
be found in these judicial system.

This is not a judicial problem.

It's a political problem.

Um, there's been a ton of money poured
into that, that an organization effort

that could have been put into the previous
election, and maybe we wouldn't be faced

with this problem then, but recognize
this is just a political problem.

Get politically active start engaging.

You don't even have to be a conservative.

I mean, this is the kind of thing
where, what like 20 to 30% of the

NDP caucus resides in rural ridings.

They don't have a huge caucus right now.

So their rural caucus members have
a pretty disproportionate level of

power over that particular party.

Now's the time to say,
look, you, you support this.

You're out, we'll make it our mission, you
know, turf Mark Hall and worked, take that

attitude basically to the streets and go,
yeah, we're, we're going to make this a

political fight and we're going to win it.

Um, and I think that's
what will actually happen.

I mean, until we do, the liberals
will just keep doing this

because there's no punishment.

When you go risk versus reward,
they pass a new gun law.

The reward is that they get a ton
of headlines because as far as I'm

concerned, the media does seem to
be sort of bought and paid for.

And this particular file,
which we can talk about after.

Cause there's some interesting notes
about that, but, um, they get the

rewards and there is no risk because
we're not politically organized.

There's no, there's no like, Hey, gun
owners are gonna take 23 seats from us.

If we pass this law, they don't worry.

Cause there there's been none of that.

So we're trying, like, I've been
trying with gunboat for a few years.

We finally have some data
that will be important.

I think in the next election, I'm
trying to get it all sorted, but you

know, that takes money and time that
as a small business, you know, I try

and get the strivers advertisers and
I try and put that money out there,

but I've also got a mortgage to pay.

So, you know, we do what we can, but
it's going to take something like that.

I think before, before we can
get there, Canadians always

say, we want some kind of NRA.

I mean, very con controversial
statement, but we definitely need to

have some kind of political action
that we just aren't getting right now.

I agree.

And you know, just my personal opinion,
watching what you're doing with

calorie, Meg, I know you have people
helping, but I know you do the bulk.

You do a hell of a lot of lifting
and a hell of a lot of work there.

The amount of change that you're
able to affect individually, just

yourself, by being involved in
the firearms industry and, uh,

setting up your own media platform.

Is amazing.

And I think if other people can kind of
take a look at what one person can do, not

everyone has to be publishing a magazine.

They can get up on YouTube pretty
quick and easy, or set up a podcast

or, you know, talk to their friends.

The, uh, I've got a podcast
lined up with another individual.

I think you and I both know him.

Um, uh, Mr.

in, uh, Ontario one, man, and what
he was able to do for that province.

I think if some of that messaging can
come through, cause everyone looks and

says, well, where's our NRA, right?

What's the NFA CSSC uh, CCFR
what are they doing for us?

I'll give them some money and we're done.

That's not how these
things are one clearly.

No.

And I think, uh, I don't really
understand that attitude of the, you

know, I'll give someone else about
any and that'll solve my problems.

Um, cause it doesn't work yet.

Um, But I do think people do
need to understand, like you have

a tremendous amount of power.

Like, for example, like if, if one person,
if, if you just walked your MP's office,

make an appointment, say like, I'm going
to sit down across the table from my

MP, when they've got their days back
in that their constituency office make

an appointment, make them accountable.

They'll go back to their caucus
meetings and they'll go, yeah, shit.

I've got angry people at my office.

And I don't like that, you know, um, they
just don't deal with any of that though,

because the co-opting of our advocacy
has gotten pretty severe at this point.

Um, and unfortunately it's also
stuff like we used to have.

I mean, we still do, but it's not used
to the same degree of the letter writing

machine that was used for a long time.

Um, unfortunately Dennis Young's
passing and his ability to get a tips.

Uh, God, I wish I'd learned more about
that, but like, you know, we've lost

some tools along the way that have not
been replaced, uh, in terms of that

individual ability to empower people.

So, um, I think gun owners do
need to recognize they have

individual power and use that.

Did Dennis really have any extra powers
that any ordinary citizen doesn't already

have available to them other than.

Well, you got to pay five bucks and
they've actually made it a lot easier.

Cause public safety aid tips used to
be the sort of a tip that you had to

go through a whole separate process.

Now it's an online thing.

You just go online, select the department.

You want RCMP or public safety.

Those are the two that you'll
always have for firearm stuff.

You pay your five bucks,
you follow your thing.

Um, and lots of people should have dealt.

The problem is it does tie up
the ATP process, what Dennis had.

And before anyone goes off to the
ATO website and you just like,

give me all of the gun records.

Um, why did Justin Trudeau ban guns?

Um, they don't really answer
responses like that positively.

No, they don't.

Um, they barely answer any responses
positively, but Dennis, Dennis, his

expertise was knowing who to address them.

He had a very good idea of
the organizational chart

for the relevant parties.

So one, one of the difficulties with
getting any tips, it's just figuring

out how you're supposed to get
the information from, for example,

I had a, I got an, a tip back.

This is a very long time ago where
regarding the 10 22 magazine debacle,

uh, to go back that far, um, there was a
PDF attached to an email that I received.

The file name was something about dual
use magazine used, blah, blah, blah.

I tried to get that.

I sent that back to the RCMP and said,
I'm looking for a copy of this PDF.

And I had that exact file name right there
because the actual PDF was that included

in the ATO a tip they're responsible.

We don't own that document because that
document was authored by the Ontario CFO.

So I had to then put an tips through the
Ontario provincial group to get that who

then just didn't respond to me whatsoever.

But that's what Dennis was good at.

Is he understood.

He could see that and go right away.

Okay.

That's an Ontario CFO doc.

I need to ATIP them on the, to pursue
it because the other thing is you also

have to be tenacious because I mean,
I've been doing this 10 years now.

I have some credibility
as a print media guy.

That's been doing this for a long time.

I've been in journalism since 2003.

Um, I still have to send, like, I
can show you email chains where I

have demanded documents from the RCMP
five times where I say, I know this

exists and they go, no, it doesn't.

I say, I know it does because I've
seen the other versions of it.

Give it to me.

No, we don't have that.

And it literally five times going
through five different ranks

of RCMP communications officer
before I get a tersely word email.

Oh, here's that file you're looking for.

And it's attached and
it's usually formatting.

It's usually either heavily redacted
or it's given to me in the most

useless format possible where it's
like, oh, here's a pilot data.

Enjoy the next three weeks
of your life sorting it.

You're kind of like, cool.

Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Yeah.

We talk about an adversarial city.

And as firearms owners,
we definitely feel that.

I mean, it's, I, it is
an adversarial system.

There are civil servants who I
speak with in the firearms program.

There's some great people who work there.

There's also some who like world people.

If you get people complaining to
you every single day, you're going

to start getting your backup.

They start getting their backup.

They start, uh, Forming opinions and
those opinions will affect the disclosure

of work or how fast they'll do the
work or how it's it's human nature.

Right.

He could an ice cream shop and treat
them like garbage, and you're probably

not going to get a big scoop ice cream.

Right.

And I think so much of
this is so politicized too.

There's there's serious concerns
amongst the civil civil service

that, um, accidentally releasing
information on as opposed to, um,

basically releasing anything around
something that is so partisan.

Um, and again has been dealt
with to be quite Frank.

So unprofessionally in many cases, uh,
we'll come back to bite them in the ass.

Um, and that's not an unfair
assumption for many of them to

make, to be very clear because you
know, the gatekeepers at the top.

R R quasi political.

They're not political appointments,
but they're they're right next to

politicians that if something, if a,
if an information officer releases

a file to me and I publicize it as a
normal news, article that somewhere

up there, someone's going to go, what
the frig, you know, who sent this out?

How did that get out there?

That was never supposed to be released.

So they have serious concerns about that,
um, on they're founded, but, um, it's

just, you know, we were supposed to have
a government that's opened by default.

That's the famous phrase that
Trudeau said in 2015, and yet,

as far as we're concerned, and
this is, this is media wide.

This isn't just gun owners.

This is all media.

It is, it has never been less transparent.

I mean, holy crap guys, like the ATP
backlogs are two years now, in some

cases like I've gotten documents released
to me pertaining to Beowulf magazines.

And where like, Bob.

Still worked for the cops.

Like this is, this is going
back to a guy who has retired.

Like it's, it's comical,
how slow it's all gotten.

Um, and they blame it on, you know,
too many people asking for a, and they

take forever to process because they
are processing them so diligently to

make sure that everything that could
be problematic has been redacted.

Uh, instead of just putting it out there,
which in this case, you know, like this is

a great example of like an entire industry
of 45,000 people is stressing like crazy.

Cause no one knows if they can move
inventory, you know, individuals that

have tons of money wrapped up in hand
guns, and maybe you want it to sell them

to someone are now going, like, I don't
know, I can't get anyone on the phone.

The firearm center doesn't even
answer the phone right now.

We feel very, there's a term for it.

Feel very othered where you've
got society and culture and,

and there's us and we're others.

Uh, we aren't given the same respect.

And I think there's, again, there's
reasons that we feel like that, but

I mean to go to the media stuff,
cause I want to get that into.

Yeah, I attend a lot of
these media briefings now.

Like I did spend a lot of time
away from work cause I was dealing

with basically the cancer scare.

Um, but now I'm back at it and I go to
these media briefings, especially now.

Cause they're so relevant and.

When I'm in them, the outlets
that attend are not, they're not

sycophantic towards the government.

Like the questions they ask are not
things that, to be quite blunt on

C 21, most of the questions were,
how does this affect criminals?

Um, the answers did not convince
anyone in the room that it did.

And what concerns me a lot is
that I'm seeing coverage come out.

That doesn't reflect what we were
discussing in those briefings.

You know, we have journalists
from big outlets going like trust.

Yeah.

And I don't that one concerns
me more, more than most things.

Cause I mean, I think gun owners
are a Canary in a coal mine.

I've referred to us like
that numerous times.

I think media is a bigger Canary cause
when your media starts to collapse,

you got big problems with transparency.

You know, media would normally, their
self-interests would be best served by

being as critical of government as they
can, because that's what gets eyeballs.

Like when Justin Trudeau stands
in front of the media scrum and

says, it's misinformation, we have
to watch out for misinformation.

When someone asks whether or not this
gun bill actually impacts criminals,

it would be better for journalists
and outlets in Canada to say the prime

minister is lying because that headline,
everyone remembers the globe headlines.

The story in the globe is false.

Well, you can't buy advertising like that.

The global mail is probably made
more money off of that headline.

Then Lord knows what in a long time.

And it, it bothers me greatly
because I don't understand it.

When I hear journalists from outlets, say
like, Hey, this doesn't seem like it's

going to impact criminals whatsoever.

And then the article that comes out
from that outlet is basically a press

release for batim from the government.

I'm not, I don't know what's
going on between those two things.

And I get concerned when I start to see.

Corporations or people act in
a manner that I can't attribute

to their own best interests.

And it's, it's concerning.

It's really concerning for me.

And why do you think that is money lazy?

They're furthering their
own political interests?

I don't know.

And I mean, it's, I've been thinking a
lot about over the past few days to be

really honest because it's, like I said,
I work in media, um, to be honest, I

always think of myself as working more
immediate than in the gun industry.

Cause I have a media company first
and foremost, we just happen to

report on guns pretty much all
the time, but I have noticed.

In thinking about it a lot.

I'm not sure why.

I know that a lot of people say
it's the media bail out and I'll

say this, like, we get a grant
from the government federal guard.

We've been getting it since Harper days.

Like it's designed to help Canadian
outlets compete against us outlets

cause newsflash guns and ammo makes
a little bit more money than we do.

Um, and they're not exactly
relevant to Canadians.

So back in the, I think it was
1974, the government said, Hey, you

know, let's try and help Canadian.

So, um, it's been great to us.

Unfortunately, it's diminishing
significantly in the next

few years, but that's life.

Um, I don't think it's that though,
because those grants, I can tell

you, they are completely, I mean,
look at us rugged magazine and they

give us a grant it's there are no
strings attached to those, the $600

million tax one, there are strings
attached to, because you have to be.

An accredited news outlet.

We didn't just in case we didn't do that
because that seems like an, almost like

a continuous eligibility screening that
gun owners get, it's sort of similar

for media outlets, where you kinda
have to like prove to the government

that you're a legit media outlet.

And I worry about the impact of that,
because that works from a publisher

level down through the editorial board.

Um, so basically management on downwards
and I worry about the ability of

management to steer, stuff like that.

But I don't, I'm very reticent
to blame that because I

don't work at those outlets.

And I'm fairly certain that when
someone sits down and writes a story

and files it with their editor, I'm
fairly certain that the journalists, the

editor that reads it and the person that
posted on the website are not being.

They're not being given
marching orders from management.

Like that would be media
is not that well-funded.

And that would be an incredible amount
of micromanagement that would cost way

more than the government is even paying.

So I, I don't really know my concern.

I guess the reasons that the two things
that I can come around with is that

like it's easy, it's less risky, which
these days journalists don't really

want to take a big risk because if
you're wrong, it'll absolutely destroy

your career in your future prospects.

The second thing is we've really seen,
even though there's a lot of money

rolling into it, we've really seen a
gutting of journalism in this country.

And what I mean by that is you don't see
a lot of middle-aged journalists anymore.

Um, you know, Broke off.

Rather those guys that we all look
up to is like, you know, proper

newsmen, that gritty guys, they
don't really exist in a big way.

A lot of the journalists now are either
in their late twenties, early thirties,

and then the second they get to a
certain sort of level within media.

They usually will take a job
as a marketing consultant.

Um, uh, you know, like if things are
really sideways with the gun industry

and there's no way that caliber
can make money, I'll just go back

into working in marketing and cars.

Probably that'll just be
the easiest transition.

Cause that's, those are the kind of
resumes that they're looking for.

And we see that a lot and I worry
about it because when I'm in

these media conferences, I can be.

Adversarial more than most.

Um, I know Brian Lilly can too.

God bless him.

Um, but we're a bit of the minority.

And I wonder if it's just because you
know, I'm coming in on 40, I kind of have

realized like, they're just people too,
but when you're a 28 year old journalist

with maybe four years experience under
your belt, you're getting close to the

circles of power for the first time.

You're finally getting access,
the power dynamic isn't the same.

Um, and if they peace out at 32 to
go work for Lou Lemon's marketing

department, um, we don't get the 35
year old journalist that comes out

and goes, nah, you guys are wrong.

Hang on.

That's not the answer to the question,
answer the question, please, if

you don't, you lose those people.

Right.

So I worry, I sort of see that as
more of the, the problem with it,

um, than any kind of government
funding stuff that said, I do think

that that tax credit thing and the,
the eligibility and the government

determining who is a media outlet.

That is hugely problematic and I'm a
little bit ashamed to be even tangentially

attached to any kind of industry that
you know is supposed to report on.

I I'm of the opinion that no journalist
should be friends with politicians.

You can't be friends with
the people that you cover.

You should always be free
to have that ability to be

critical as needed all the time.

Um, uh, and I'm not seeing that now.

I mean, especially with so
many journalists go into

working for the government.

That's another problem.

Yeah.

I agree.

You know, you used the term othered
and I I've heard that before.

Yes.

There, there is that, that other feeling
people say, you know, if somebody likes

you, they're going to like you, if
they don't like you, there's nothing

you're going to say or do that's
really going to change your mind.

And the more that you try and protest,
the more just ingrained in them gives

them reasons to further dislike you.

Um, I'm wondering.

I sometimes I look at the industry
and I look at the, uh, firearms owners

and the sporting, uh, industry after
a certain point of being othered and

protesting and saying, but we're fine.

And we're again, we're your neighbors.

And it doesn't seem to
be the solution here.

And one observation I made, uh,
recently was, uh, Ian Runkle.

Ian's got a, uh, he's a lawyer.

He's got a YouTube channel, very popular.

I think he had about a month or so ago.

Um, 50, 60,000 subscribers
on his YouTube channel.

And he reports on things that he
finds interesting, which would

be, uh, weapons related laws and
firearms knives, and, and, and

things that, that peak his curiosity.

But fast forward to that, After he started
talking about Johnny Depp and Amber heard

and giving a legal perspective on this
and his views on videos went from anywhere

from 20, 30,000, 30,000, 30,000 views on a
video to like one point something million.

And he's got over 200,000 subscribers now.

And I'm wondering if the industry as a
whole would be well-served to diversify

themselves just a little bit and get
themselves out of that other category,

because now he's got a broader platform
of, uh, viewers and subscribers who

just might also hear some of his
eye content on firearms and knives.

And wondering if we would
be better served doing that.

It's hard to say, cause there's
a couple of factors at play.

Um, one of them that has to be addressed
is quite literally, and this is, I,

I hate to sound like a conspiracy
theorist because there are a few

around in this particular industry.

There is the issue of social
media algorithm and the deck

being stacked against you.

So I also, yeah, shadow penny.

I also do some motorcycle safety
advocacy here in BC because

I'm a pretty avid motorcyclist.

And I was shocked.

I mean, the first few times that I
started putting stuff out on Facebook,

um, they were, let's just put it in
perspective, like nowhere near the

effort that I put into caliber stuff.

Cause it's my kind of volunteer
stuff on the side to help bring my

soul back to somewhere that I enjoy.

Um, but my God, the reach by comparison,
uh, wasn't saying it's so much

easier to reach people on social.

When you're not talking about
something that social media algorithms

are actively trying to repress.

Um, I see it on caliber all the time.

We've actually seen huge reductions.

So many companies in the firearm space
have seen huge reductions on Facebook.

It is, it is nightmarish trying
to get gun centric content

out on Facebook at this point.

Um, that's why we always tell
people, hit the share button.

Cause if you don't hit share, and even
if you do like I've done the math on

some of my biggest posts that have 80
120,000 people reached, um, even there,

the shares are like, Facebook is assuming
a bunch of you have like 20 friends

and it's like, Hmm, have you ever met
someone on Facebook that has 20 friends

on Facebook that isn't a scammer trying
to sell you something on marketplace?

No, like that's not how it works.

Right.

So Ian definitely tapped into, uh,
realizing like that's the way to go.

I think a lot of gun
media could do that too.

I think that the biggest thing that gun
owners could probably do to stop being.

On a broad sense.

Um, cause obviously with social media
algorithms that gets into specific

strategy delivery of communications and
the methods by which you do it from a,

from a larger purchase, rather tactical
on a strategic level of how, what do

we talk about to stop being othered?

Um, first and foremost, stop saying,
we're the victims of these laws?

Like that's the, it just, it's just
not like, yes, you feel like a victim.

Yes.

We are technically victims because
you can't buy and sell a handgun.

And that sucks.

But like, it's talk about missing
the point, you know, like it's like

talking about the Titanic sinking
and being like man icebergs, right?

Like they're so big.

And you know, like you kinda like,
people will be like, what, like that

at iceberg was a real victim, you know,
it was just sitting there and then this

boat came along and you know, like,
you know, we're kind of doing that now.

It's.

Bring it, uh, the other big thing is
anyone that's been around and there's

fewer and fewer of us that have been
around since the long gun registry

debate, bring it around to a topic.

People can freak and relate upon
because it's like I've done the videos.

And I see the metrics at the same time.

If you talk about, you know, how I
can't sell any more handguns and that

sucks, blah, blah, blah, very few
people care because it's really just

2.3 million of us that are gun owners.

If you want to get down to the
brass tax of it over 75% of us

with pals are over the age of 45.

They represent a total of
18% of social media traffic.

You know, when you actually break
down the numbers, 2.3 million people,

75% of them are that age, only
18% of those are on social media.

You don't get a big number of people.

Um, so first off recognize that like
gun owners are what they are and

they're going to be met in person.

They're going to be a gun shops
are going to be in gun shows

are going to be a gun clubs.

You're not going to be able
to access those people.

Even if we just say, Hey.

Our core group of Powell holders
to be more politically active.

Uh, you're not going to get
there by going on social media.

You got to take that realistic view.

If you're trying to reach out beyond
gun owners and make the argument to

say, Hey, look, I'm a gun owner, and
I want you to care about my plight.

Uh, start by making it our plate.

Say things, instead of saying stuff like,
Hey, like I can't shoot my hands anymore.

Talk about how many resources.

I mean, I'll be honest.

I got a 19 month old son who have now
just figured out children are just

massive vectors of disease, like lovable,
but very great at getting you sick.

Um, Days after and been doing interviews
like this all week, talking about the

resources that are going into this,
watching politicians burn hundreds

of thousands of dollars an hour,
talking about this stupid handgun ban.

And then I go down, I gotta spend
four hours in emergency because it

takes that long to get a doctor in an
emergency situation, you know, bring

these issues home, start saying like,
yeah, you know, like they're talking

about handgun bans while gas prices are
going through the roof, you can't afford

groceries and no one can find a freaking.

Like a good old medical doctor to
say nothing of the vast quantity

of people that are gonna need a
psychologist after all this COVID stuff.

Um, make those the issues.

Cause those that is the issue.

It's not disingenuous.

It's not passing the buck.

It's not trying to
circumvent the gun issue.

It's the same issue.

I keep telling people, government has
one tool in its toolbox and that's money.

That's all it has.

If a government goes bankrupt,
it ceases to function.

There's no law.

There's no government.

There's no order because it all works
off money because they pass a law.

They got to pay a bunch of
parliamentarians to meet,

discuss the law, pass it.

Then they got to pay a
bunch of cops to enforce it.

And I got to pay a bunch of judges
to pass that law in courtrooms at a

bunch of jailers to put people in jail.

If they break it, it's all money.

It's the same money that they
could be using to reopen.

Reopen.

I mean, God knows they couldn't,
but tranquil medical hospital over

in Kamloops been closed for 50
years, reopen something like that.

Build God, God blow minds, build
a new mental health facility.

It's all the same money.

And I mean, I get really pissed off
because I live in downtown Colona to

put in perspective for those that don't
know, it's a great little Summertown.

I highly recommend visiting.

Um, but we do have a little bit
of a crime problem growing here.

Um, there are homeless
people and addicted people.

I can't walk more than
two blocks from my house.

So they'll come in and across an
encampment and I'm starting to confront

the issues of, well, when my son learns
to speak and he starts asking, well,

what does that guy putting in his arm?

How do you answer that question?

I'd rather solve that problem.

Like when Trudeau stands it from
a microphone and says, oh, can you

just worried about getting shot?

No, they're not.

They're worried about, they're
not worried about getting shot in

a grocery store, the rural paying
the price on the grocery store.

That's the reality.

And as gun owners, we need to
stop talking about the freaking

guns because no one cares.

We care.

Sure.

But no one else does.

And it's, I'll be Frank it's asinine to
expect Canadians to care because they've

gone through the same two years of COVID
stuff we have, they're worried about

their mortgage going up too, because
the interest rates they're worried about

putting gas in their truck, they're
worried about the grocery prices.

They're worried about trying to
find a doctor for their family.

You come in and you say,
Hey, worry about me too.

They don't have the mental space for it.

And we shouldn't expect them to, because
it's unrealistic to, if you asked

Canadians to care about it, because at
the same time, it'd be like going to gun

owners and going, like you should also
care about the, and to be very clear, gun

owners should care about these things.

You should care about
the addiction crisis.

You should care about the
pending homelessness crisis.

You should care about the lack of
clean water on first nations reserves.

You should care about all these things,
but if you care about these things

all the time, you will crater your
mental health, like never before.

So we can't ask that of people.

We gotta just say like, Hey look, you
know, like the problems you're facing

are because of the fact that keep
coming after people like us, instead of

addressing the greater issues, because
those issues are hard trying to get

their poll numbers up by banning guns.

And I think that's the
way to get through this.

Other thing to get back to your
big questions is we keep othering

ourselves because they keep basically
setting us up to be othered.

And we just don't, we just take the
bait every time it's like Charlie brown

and the football man, like they queue
up the gun ban and we just go running

straight towards it, like, you know, yeah.

Gun salesman of the year.

And then when the football leaves wait,
what, like how, like that's a surprise.

It's not a surprise guys.

Like, come on and see
the forest for the trees.

Pull back, take yourselves out of this,
put yourself in your neighbor's shoes.

Think about what they'd say, you know?

Yeah.

Excellent, excellent message.

Uh, you mentioned earlier that
you don't think the judicial

route is a route to fix this.

Uh, maybe it helps.

And I agree with you.

I mean, I'm, I, I deal with, uh, law firms
all the time and I, you and I are both

dealing on a couple of matters as well.

Just, um, uh, for the benefit of the
gun owners, should they be successful?

Perhaps they're useful
as a delaying tactic.

Would that be about it even then?

I don't even see that as, I mean, I don't,

it, this is all my opinion as someone
who is not a lawyer and who tries to

avoid lawyers at all costs, uh, quite
literally, um, the problem with did

judicial perspective is it could be
a delay, but that would only assume

that did judicial branch would deliver
a verdict to us at the same time as

delivered to the government, what was
more realistically going to happen?

It would be that, you know, the government
got word from the crown because the crown

is who they're fighting in this case that
the crown would go, Hey, like it's not

looking like it's going to go your way.

And the government goes, okay,
well, we'll just legislate.

I mean, that whole key component in
the law that says you can't pass this

OIC because, uh, they're sporting guns.

You know, that's what, so
much of this hinges around.

They'll just legislate that away.

Amended out of firearms, act the governor
and council can determine whatever gun to

be, whatever they want the end, you know,
pass that with six readings you're done.

And like it's, that's
where it's, it feels good.

It absolutely does.

And part of me does want to say, we
need to oppose this stuff in every way.

We can't, including by using the
judicial tools, section 74, hearings

would have been a great way because
it would have again, making our

problem, other peoples problems.

It would have made the courts tie up
like crazy, and the government would

have been forced to confront that issue.

Just like to be honest, right now we hear
from some gun clubs saying, look, we're

going to bar federal, uh, range rentals.

So that RCMP CVSA, corrections, that sort
of people can't qualify on private ranges.

Um, it's making our
problem, their problem.

And I do support that in a lot of ways.

And I do think that the judicial method.

It's an option to make our problem
a bigger problem for the government.

But I think that the big issue with
it is it's, it's, it's sucked all

the air out of the room completely.

It's seen as the, the only way forward.

And unfortunately it
was never a way forward.

It, it was at best a delay tactic.

It might've gotten our guns
back for a little while.

Um, but as we're all learning
now, like courts move molasses,

slow, and governments are capable
of moving substantially faster.

Um, so when they've got the inside track
on knowledge from the crown and the

ability to respond faster than we can.

You know, you're, you're in an
asymmetrical situation there that, you

know, in any kind of conventional logic,
you'd go, like don't get in that fight.

Um, so I don't, it's not
the way I would've gone.

Um, it's why to be totally blunt.

So why we haven't reported on it a
ton, because I do feel like it's just

kind of, whatever happens with it.

The legislation will
probably take precedence.

Um, and I do hope that as we lead up
to, uh, this next election, hopefully

20, 23, because minority government.

On average, last 450 days were 180
days or so into this one already.

Um, and for everyone to take again,
context, we're 180 days into a government

that on average, last 450 and neither
leader of the largest parties can attend

events like Jagmeet Singh gets shouted out
of and attend an event attended entirely

by seek people and claims as racism and
Trudeau can't attend an event in Burnaby.

I believe it was without getting
showed it down to the point where

they say it's a security risk.

And recognizing that doesn't seem
like the most stable situation for

governments to be going into, especially
when we're going to be facing at the

end of the summer per roadman likely
higher than expected interest rates

higher than expected inflation rates.

Lord knows what coming
out of Ukraine and Russia.

They're our neighbor too guys, like
let's be real clear, like, uh, there

are Chinese jets that we're now
learning about that are interdicting

our Aurora aircraft in the Arctic
air space to distances of 20 feet.

Like we have big problems here.

Um, when they come back in the fall,
the problems that government faces

will probably be much bigger than any
of the problems are currently facing.

Um, so whether or not this government
holds a whole lot longer than

fall or spring is anyone's guess I
personally don't think it'll last

much longer than spring of 20, 23.

So people already gotta be thinking
in that, like we have this problem,

like I keep saying, we know
these guns are gonna get banned.

The th the transfer is gonna freeze.

Magnatune has even said that the ban
isn't off the table, so maybe we'll

add them to the buyback and then do the
buyback thing at the end of the year.

Again, two year amnesty means that even
if they start the buyback at the end of

the year, which they've talked about.

Unless they rescind that to your amnesty,
uh, which I don't think they will.

Cause there'll have to
be a compliance period.

They can't just say like, okay, October
1st, the gun buyback starts October 1st.

The amnesty ends because like what
they want a few hundred thousand

people are now with the handguns,
hundreds of thousands of people

giving their guns in, in one day.

So there will be a, an
amnesty period there.

Um, start thinking about that
election, start getting involved there.

Like if, if you just can't bring yourself
to volunteer with the conservative

party, find the writing, like in your
writing, go talk to the other people

and be like, look, I'm here, I'll help.

But you got to change your stance
on this issue because like it is

screwed up and it's not even about me.

It's about the, the amount of
resources that you are letting this

issue consume at a time when we
desperately need them in other avenues.

Like more people died today of
overdoses in this country that

have been shot in a mass shooting
in the states pretty much ever.

So like, let's just get over this
whole guns of the issue thing.

Like people that die from
overdoses are people too.

They don't want to die.

It's not intentional.

They're called drug
poisonings for a reason.

It's not an overdose, not intentional.

They get the wrong thing.

They stick it in their
body and then they die.

And no one that's someone's kid
that's someone's brother, they don't

deserve to die any more than to be
quite honest, that we always refer to

these older gang bangers to get shot.

It's still a tragedy.

We should not want these kids
shooting at each other with guns.

Like we have to take that holistic
perspective to our national health

and our national safety, um, start
getting involved in that stuff.

Now, if you, if you do see the
conservative the way forward and like by

God do it, I mean, the fact that IPSec
Canada and IPSec BC and all these groups,

like they should be like the guys that
do them, like, how are they not the

chief door knockers, every election?

Like that was it that like every election
rolls around and the cowboy action

shooters, the lipstick shooters, the
local gun clubs are like, how are they?

Not even like, they, they should
be hosting the conservative party

candidate and the writing and being
like, yeah, we've got the 4,000 members

we'll go out and knock doors for you.

We'll go put literature up, like.

You're starting to see in this
now gun owners, I'm speaking

to you guys, you're starting to
see what happens when you don't.

I have said a few times a little bit,
probably not publicly, but like gun

owners are getting what they deserve.

We, as a country are
getting what we deserve.

We too many Canadians were
complacent in the last few elections.

Too many Canadians did not
take a hard look, even in 2015.

I mean, I was one of those guys
that was trying to buy a house.

Me and my friends in 2015, when prices
started to do this in Vancouver.

And I mean, even then I had friends
of mine saying, oh, Trudeau's

going to drive housing prices down.

And I'd say, have you read the policy?

It's all about rental income.

He just wants cheap rents.

And if rents go down, the value of
owning a rental property goes up.

Like, it's just, if they're going
to subsidize rent for people that

can't afford it and you are a lamp.

Well, that's the best tenant you've got.

Cause they've got a government
check coming, but you can't,

they can't skip that check.

The government sent it to you.

So I kept saying to guys like, look,
no, it's going to drive prices up.

And no one known to be able
to, to honest, no one listens.

This is, this is what happens when
you don't stop being complacent.

Start taking some personal agency, read
the policies on your own goddamn self.

Stop, listening to what other people tell
you about them and take action, go to your

gun club and say, Hey, we really should be
volunteering with these candidates because

we need to affect change this time.

Cause if we don't win
this election, it's over.

Like that's it.

If the liberals win again in
a month, even a minority, as

we've now seen it, won't matter.

Just this will be, if you own
a handgun right now, you'll

be the last person to own it.

The end, when you die, it'll
go into a smelter period.

There's no.

Other answer here because one more liberal
majority is that that's, it it's over.

Like they'll pass the laws and
furthermore, it'll move us so far

away from this being a normal Canadian
pursuit that no conservative party

candidate will come back to it.

There's already questions about
whether or not a conservative party.

We see it already.

John Sharay feels totally comfortable
running as the leader of the conservative

party will saying he will support
Trudeau's ban on assault, style weapons.

That's where the conservative
party finds itself already.

It's been like seven years.

Imagine what a few more we'll do, right.

It'll be over.

So I'm a little bit heated now
because admittedly like, yeah.

Where are you guys all the time
is one of those people that has

door-knocked and volunteered.

I can tell you, I don't see anyone
showing up in an episodic sweater.

Every time I go door knock
there's like me and 40 old people.

Literally that's what it is, is me.

And like geriatric people who frankly like
as a young guy, I look around and be like,

where are all the other young people here?

Like if this lady is in a
wheelchair and she's rolling door

to door, where am my gun owner?

But.

They're all able-bodied, you
know, like it's it's insanity.

So I think gun owners
got to start doing that.

You know, if you want to say you are
the gun lobby, be the freaking gun

lobby, you know, step up very well said.

So with the, the current tabling
of, of C 21 here, it's going

to have to reach Royal assent.

You've talked about the process
that has to go through there.

Um, there's a likelihood that will never
go through, but the likelihood that

it will be dropped altogether, in my
opinion, is slim to none with the degree.

I think everything that anyone needs
to know about that is simply the fact

that we've already seen a bill of
and holy crap, there's another one.

And like, what do you think we'll call
it the third one, like, you know, um,

and the last one wasn't this bad, right?

The last one was, it didn't
include a handgun freeze.

It was, uh, potentially a.

Provincial or municipal handgun ban.

And now it's a national handgun freeze.

Well, you know, let's to
connect the dots to your people.

If you project like those old, you
know, like what's the next thing in the

sequence, duh, a national handgun ban.

So I expect what we'll see is this
is what I think just offhanded.

This is just an opinion.

There is no, I have no sources
on this is just kind of the I've

spent 10 years watching this.

I'm not that great at prognosticating
what this particular government can do.

I'll I'll admit that because I did
not see this freeze coming that again.

I don't think anyone did.

Um, also too, this government
does some weird stuff.

A lot of times that are just
make it really hard to predict.

Um, what I actually think they're going
to do is to see 21 we've already seen,

like the Friday, the stats Canada report
came out saying handgun crime is the

biggest issue and all that kind of stuff.

And then the weekend was dominated by
the Canadian press article that went

through global CTV, CBC, you name it.

They all had the exact same
verbatim article about how

handguns are the problem.

And then lo and behold,
Monday, we get this national.

I expect they'll keep banging on
that gun drum, um, throughout the

election because they see this
as key to their electoral math.

That's how they get to a majority by
going through Toronto and Vancouver

or him and I were a minority
government in this case, probably.

Um, I think the problem
is that they're going to.

When the rate drops and this all dies,
uh, on the RIT cause any, for anyone

that doesn't know any legislation
that has not passed when an election

drops just dies, it doesn't pause.

It just dies has to be reintroduced
at the next sitting of parliament

because the government turns over.

Obviously I expect that they're going to
use and the vilification of handguns and

the continued sort of, um, misinformation
of, and displacement of legal gun owners

for criminals and saying, hang on to
the problem, hanging out with the hub.

The problem for the government
with handguns is a buyback of

handguns would be quite expensive.

There's like 1.2 million
of them out there.

Um, and they probably average about
800 to a thousand dollars a piece.

You do the math on that.

It's a really big bill and that'd
be really hard to justify even

for the liberal government that
throws money around like it's.

So I think what they're probably going
to try and do is use this built to

vilify us and handguns, um, effectively
enough so that when they run the

next campaign, they are able to say,
um, we're going to ban handguns, but

we're not going to buy them back.

That's my concern.

Uh, they have to get some social license.

They probably have to do a little
bit of marketing work between here

and there to get to the point where
Canadians will be okay with that.

But I think, uh, it's probably
not entirely beyond the pail to,

to say that that's their goal.

I mean, again, the goal
here is not stopping crime.

We all know that.

So what is the goal political gain.

Okay.

How did what's and you code on that
road and you start to go, okay.

Well, political gain will eventually
mean they're probably going to be.

Demanding a handgun ban the
advocates that they listened to so

closely are demanding it already.

So they're trying to get to that
goal and they're gonna go, okay,

well, we need to get to the point
where we can ban handguns, but

we can't afford to ban handguns.

How do we ban handguns without
having to buy the back?

Well, we make them all look really bad.

First kind of like if someone was to say
like, oh, we're going to ban cigarettes.

The government would never
say we're buying them back.

People go, they're unhealthy for you.

And they'll give you cancer.

We're not buying them back.

You should've bought
them in the first place.

That will be the exact
same sort of statements.

They'll make one handguns.

They kill people.

There's no reason to own them.

You've never should have
bought them in the first place.

And I think when you hear those
phrases, it's not that far

from what we'd expect to hear.

Right.

So that's where I sort of
expect them to take C 21.

This is the test balloon
to see where that goes.

Um, they're anchoring.

Exactly exactly.

Um, I wished that I could have some faith
in the notion that if there was enough

pushback, the government would go, okay,
well, hang on, whoa, this is too much.

And it's not obtaining our goals
anymore of either political

gain or preventing crime.

So they just back off, but that's
for real, say, I'm not great at

predicting these liberals because
that's what a rational person would do.

They don't seem entirely
rational all the time.

I mean, Marco Mendocino himself.

Let's also just point this out.

He's likely going to have less than
4,000 votes separating him from

his next rival in his own writing.

There were like 80,000
electors in that writing.

When you do the math on that,
it's not a huge chunk of people.

And here he is gladly, happily
being the face of this ban.

Seemingly not recognizing the flank on
the political front and opens up to him.

Like, I don't know what kind of gun
clubs are in his writing, but like,

or gun clubs here in Vancouver, he
got two gun clubs and you're riding

that's over 4,000 people right there.

If those gun clubs all go vote on mass.

Well, and that's what we'll be
trying to do with gunboat is, is

trying to get that strategic voting
and understand it a bit better.

But, um, that's where, you know, if
we can start to change the risk and

reward, you know, just like you would
with any kind of training, anything,

children, dogs, you name it, risk
reward, you know, and you just gotta make

sure that the politicians understand.

I think that's how we get
out of this partisan loop.

As gun owners too, is, is to take our own
political power and keep it ourselves.

Don't don't allow it to be
co-opted for the last few years.

I've definitely noticed a lot of the
gun organizations do not represent

gun owners to the politicians.

They represent politicians to gun owners.

They, they we've seen it.

I mean, the worst example of it was,
um, oh, Maxine burdensome hate for this.

I don't care.

I mean, people can hate who cares.

Um, Maxine, Bernie is the
best example of it, right?

He, he was represented to gun
owners as the savior and when that

failed, we now have to deal with the
fallout of that in the form of the.

You know, because he got, he was given
a massive platform for his gun policy.

Um, and instead of going to going
like, you know what, start delivering

and we'll start talking, you know, um,
politics is always a little bit of a

give and take, but for a long time,
I think gun owners have been giving

a lot more than they've been taking,
especially from the conservative party.

I mean, an arrow tool is a great example.

I mean, that guy, his campaign manager
was a former lobbyist for the NFA.

Like, and he's the guy that turns
around and says, no, I'm not going

to reverse the AR 15 ban that's
that kind of blew my mind, you know?

So.

It's great to be nice to people.

And we definitely should be nice to
politicians that want to be nice to us.

But if, you know, as everyone always
talks about it, it's so common now in

the quote unquote masculine blog world
to talk about, you know, if you are

not a dangerous man, you're not really,
if you don't have teeth, you can't

really do much, you know, you can be
kind, but unless you have a little bit

of power and you're willing to exert
it yourself, what's the point, right?

Um, I think gun owners kind
of need to recognize that too.

We got to stop being, you know, please
are going to have another, instead of

saying, no, we've got 2.3 million people
that have pals, we can access them.

They've got significant others,
kids, friends, uncles who are

sympathetic to their plight.

So we've got control over 7
million volts in this country.

You know, don't screw with us.

We just want to be left alone.

And, and that might be enough to start
saying to the liberals, if Marco Mendicino

had a very strong sense that running
this law was going to make him lose

the next election, I'm fairly certain.

It wouldn't look the same
way it does today, you know?

And that's the point that I'm
hoping we can get to good point.

Yeah, the whole co-opting of, of all
you're ever getting all the responsibility

on a third party, like your, your
gun org do just go ahead, support the

gun org, but stand up for yourself.

Do some work yourself.

And can you tell me a
little bit about a gun vote?

So the gun vote is.

Started out as a branding thing that
we did for the last election, we

all those podcasts and a gun vote.

Cause this has been a very
long project in the making.

Um, it's effectively going to be at its
most basic level, um, uh, strategic voting

engine, because we've got the ability
now to, uh, figure out we're gun owners.

We know where we know what
riding you all live in.

We've got that data now officially.

Um, we're working with a polling
company to have that sorted into

electoral riding association.

So we'll have an
interactive map available.

It'll tell us, you know, let's say,
uh, the nine or south Oakenoggen

is a great example because I'm not
in it, but it's very close to me.

Um, Richard Cannings is
the NDP candidate on there.

And to be very honest, he's a nice guy.

He's a, he's a very nice
guy and he's not a bad MP.

And what I mean by that is he's
responsive to his community and he

raises community's interest in the
house of parliament, which is what

your elected representatives should do.

Um, when they just pair it a party line.

That's when you've got a bad
MB, um, searchers, a nice guy.

He's just good.

But he only wins by like a few
hundred votes, usually over

the conservative candidate.

And they've the same
conservative candidate they've

had that pitched battle twice.

Now it's been quite entertaining to watch.

Um, if we have an interactive map
that tells us look, there's 600 votes

that separate Richard from the next
conservative candidate, and we've

recognized there's 3,500 gun owners there.

Well, that's, that's what we would call
a target riding where the vote gap is

exceeded by the number of power holders.

So we'll start pulling the power holders.

How'd you vote last time.

If we find that enough of them didn't
vote well, now we know it's an actionable

target writing where we can put
effort into mailing those individuals,

relevant stuff, reach out to those
people, go to the Penticton gun show,

have a booth, et cetera, reaching
out to gun owners in the area to not

only tell them like you can make a
change, but like you can make a change.

Like you need to go vote because if all
of you vote, this riding flips, right?

So that's at its core.

What it started out to be now.

Since we're starting to work with the
polling company, we're recognizing there's

a lot more validity and merit to it
because the combination of knowing where

pals exist is a great political tool.

Obviously combined with the data that we
have from our subscribers already, and

our ability to pull our own subscribers.

Because the other thing is
people assume that pal holders

will all vote conservative.

They will not.

Absolutely.

A lot of us are not single issue voters.

For some people, it might be, you
know, my dad's got Alzheimer's, so I

really need to get a better hospital
in this area and blah, blah, blah.

So there's understanding
the complexity of all.

This is something that no one
I don't think has really done.

So we're going to try and combine the
data that we've got with our subscribers,

polling, our subscribers, to find
out, to get a better idea of what gun

owners in Canada think, what they want
to see, what policies are important to

them, even on gun policy, seeing what
do they think, what do they stand for?

You know, like are hand
guns important to them?

And if not, like, why not?

Like what's the understanding them better.

So that in the next slide,
We can speak to them better.

Uh, cause I don't think anyone that we've
been we've often, I think we've been

thought of as a, as a monolithic entity a
lot and we're not like an owners, all of

us, we're all complicated people, right?

Like you're a business owner.

I want, we have lots of other concerns
beyond gun stuff, taxes, you name it.

Um, so we really want to get a firm
grasp on that so that we can develop a

better profile of what gun owners want
to see and how politicians can deliver

that so that we can have more political.

Um, and when it is done, which will
hopefully be over the summer, um, it'll

just be delivered to you guys as a tool.

It will be something like gun owners
can sign up for it to receive.

It'll don't do newsletters as anyone
that's subscribed to caliber knows

you never get an email from me, even
if you want to sometimes, uh, cause

one guy it's a lot of work fan.

Um, we'll have some staff for it though,
especially in the election silly gun vote.

We'll be pushing content out so that
if you live in a riding, it's the sort

of thing where, uh, you'll know, like
if you just want to like, Hey, I'm

a gun owner and lives in sod, blah,
blah city in Saskatchewan, you know?

Well, you're probably going to
vote CPC cause they always win.

But let's say you're in Southern Ontario.

We'll give you a better idea of your
writing, your ability to influence it.

There'll be some writings, for example,
where you might go like, Hey, the

conservatives can't win on the NDP can
and we can tell gun owners like, look, it

sounds antithetical, but vote NDP because
it's one less thing for the liberals.

Makes it one less that the
conservatives need to take

from them to get to a majority.

So, um, it was used to great effect.

The same system was effectively
used, uh, by companies called

press progress and lead.

Now, both of which were funded by
the tides foundation, which I had

some of those tides dollars baby.

We had to be looking at a
different reality, but, uh, I

don't think that's going to happen.

Um, and they figure they flipped
about something would be 20 and 27.

Uh, the responsibility that, and we have
that like gun owners have that ability.

Cause like, when you think about
what had to happen for lead

down, cause like I love politics.

Like this is the kind of politics I love.

Like I'm one of those dark cider
type guys and politics that doesn't

happen legitimately anymore.

They had to get volunteers.

So you got to go out there, you got to
put a message out there that inspired

a bunch of young people to put on
shirts that said, press progress and

they'd knock on a door and go, you
shouldn't vote for Stephen Harper.

And here's why, you know, I lived in
a riding where that happened and it

happened like six times these groups.

So like two or three young
people would come up and be

like anyone but conservative.

Here's why like we don't even
have to go looking that hard.

I can just call it gun club.

Like, Hey man, I'm a fish and game club.

Uh, do you mind if I come out
there for a weekend and chat with

you guys and maybe we can get
some emails out to your members.

It's really, really, really simple.

Like this'll change the future
of handgun ownership in Canada.

Let's get you guys out there and I bet
you, I can get enough guys knocking

on doors and areas like that by going
through gun pubs, because where our

hand gun owners, we know where they are.

Um, we have a repository of
those people available to us.

And as a community, it shouldn't
be hard to get to them and it

shouldn't be hard to engage them
and get them enthused about this.

So that's what gunboat is gonna be
doing entirely, just literally that.

So I'm building it up.

How can people support that?

Uh, right now just subscribed to
caliber because we don't take donations.

Um, I've got a few meetings with
people to try and get kind of a

funding seed started for it, just to
get it off the ground in a big way.

And once the website's up and
running, we are hoping to take

like a Patrion type model.

Cause I'm, I'm pretty
reticent to take donations.

It's just kind of.

Uh, we probably will have to at
some point, but I'll hate it.

Cause I'm just not, it
feels a little bit too much.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't have to
really talk about it too much.

There's nothing wrong with donations.

It's just not like me.

Like it's not, I gotta, you know,
at some level you just got to kind

of recognize your own role in this
and it's not, I'm not that guy.

So we'll probably do some patriotic
stuff and use it as content linked.

So like you can use Patriot on to support
the content being created really directly.

Um, and, and that'll be how
gunboat is probably fun.

We're also doing the
same thing for caliber.

We're trying to get caliber over to
a Patrion type model because a lot

of guys like that month by month sort
of thing, and a lot of people do want

to support the stuff we're doing.

Cause while gunboat is kind of the,
the political entity looking to create

change, you know, we've really made
a real concerted effort to shift

caliber towards kind of like the.

No scribe of the community.

Like we're trying to take down
histories now, like we've got

this great writer named Richard.

He just came out of the
woodwork, like talk about a

God said, no, he's in Ontario.

And he's got all the right contacts
to take down the history of like that

big article we did on long branch.

He's moving on to smaller
is limited to the next one.

And like I'm working, we're
working towards this big article

on D'Amico because of course
they macro doesn't exist.

Now.

Now it's ancient history.

He was D'Amico, which
has been gone for years.

And then it was called Canada,
which has been gone for years.

So taking down these histories of like,
like there's a guy that sold a bunch of

guns to the SAS and started DeMarco on
that special operations kind of angle

that we all know and love them for.

I think he got fired because he
wasn't supposed to sell any more guns.

Like this is the kind of history that,
you know, like there's some history,

like one thing in the long branch factory
that no one writes this stuff down.

And if we don't, who will, there
was a massive problem with.

Because it was a factory full of women
and people got needs, man, like wars going

on, like stuff goes around, you know?

And then when the factory actually
got going, our next article, we're

talking about how it actually got the
nickname, the butcher shop, because

they were producing so many guns.

They were putting so many
people through pretty rapid

training to get these guns out.

And I mean, guns are even today,
they're a big ass machine shop that

makes these things, usually in machine
shops are not inherently safe places.

So you can imagine like with rudimentary
training coming off the street with almost

no experience with machines like that,
there was a metric ton of injuries and it

got the nickname, the butcher shop because
it was so brutal and they had to, they had

to address these things like these were,
these are real issues that like, I'll be

blunt, better politicians than we've seen
in a long freaking time had to address

on the, well, they were hitting the road
running, they had to fix these problems.

Um, and I'm very cognizant of the
fact that like, We are now the longest

running gun magazine in Canadian history.

And I view it, like, I take it in, it
sounds super cliche, but it's just a game.

Like the way I might love history.

If I don't write this stuff down,
no one will like the history of

para, like everyone, everyone
that works in the industry has a

pretty well-known understanding.

Like para got into some problems because a
lot of guns went missing pretty regularly,

like right off the factory floor, they'd
go into a lunch box and poof, they start

turning up in organized crime circles.

And there was a lot of like
problems with pair that way.

But like I've also met the guy.

He was not associate with any of this who
he literally invented the double stack,

1911, Meg for para that's his patent, you
know, like he's a guy he lives in Ontario.

He's super, super nice.

That's a story right there.

And that's the kind of thing where
like, if you want to support what

we're doing, just go get a subscription
because it's the only way that we

can take your money effectively.

Um, so just go to the website by
subscription and we'll send you the

magazines, um, because that's what
we're doing and whatever we make extra

that we can spare goes over towards
gunboat to help pay for, for hopefully

creating the change in the future.

So I'm going to have links to
that up in the, uh, in the podcast

notes and the YouTube notes.

Uh, definitely support the magazine.

Definitely a gun vote.

I think you should be putting
it on to a Patrion sooner.

As opposed to later, I get the
concept, they get the, they

will do like a Kickstarter.

So I'm, I gotta, I gotta
look into the crowd.

I've never been into the crowdfunding
stuff, so I'm a bit of a fish out of water

on that front, but we'll probably look at
getting that up and running really soon.

Cause it's because I'm working with
an existing polling company that

everyone knows very, very well.

When it finally comes
out, it's not difficult.

It's just the bill to pay, you know,
and it's, it's not like it's not

like they need more and more money.

It's just, okay, it's going to be about
80 to $150,000, depending on what level

we want to go to the website integration
and largely the integrated mapping stuff.

So, you know, it's just
kind of a finite amount.

And if we can reach that threshold,
then it will be a very good

tool, hopefully in perpetuity.

Because now, like I said, this is, that
was that that's literally the report that

I had to go back and forth the RCMP five
times and be like, I know you make this

report and they kept saying, no, we don't.

And I was like, I know you
freaking do like send it to me.

So now that we've got it, it's,
it's really easy to keep this

as a living document, moving.

And also too, the more that we pull
with the combination of our subscriber

data and, and gun owners at large, we
will always be working towards a more

refined image of who gun owners are.

That perspective will get better
and better and clearer and clearer

until eventually we have a very good
grasp of who gun owners are and what

they want to see, but also to what,
what do other people want to see?

Because I mean, part of this
whole thing that I've been trying

to work on is like, I have a gun
license, my wife has a gun license.

We have lots of friends that don't,
and they're becoming more and

more sympathetic for our plates.

So like how many, how many people
do you think in your social circle

are now sympathetic to gun owners?

That'll always be a changing metric,
but we should always have a firm

grasp on it because that's where
we can embrace a little bit of this

power and stop having to rely on.

You know, co-opting power from a
political party or working with

politicians on deals that unfortunately
are not always guaranteed.

Right?

Right.

Especially if you don't have
the, if you have no power in the

political sphere, you have nothing.

I agree.

Is there anything else you should be
chatting about before we wrap things up?

No, I'm still hearing that.

Apparently there's no motion.

The federal government did not
present their motion today.

The next meeting is June 7th.

Uh, the Canadian sporting arms
and ammunition association is

saying that they believe the next
opportunity the government has

introduced the transfer freeze.

Um, I don't, I'm not really sure what
they're basing that on, but if you can

still get a transfer done, uh, Do it now.

Cause that way you can still
at least shoot the damn things

between now and the next election.

And like I said, just reiterating
that like take some agency of your

own damn self, get your gun clubs,
your friends do what makes sense.

Don't just say like, Hey look
guys, look, this is how we're going

to solve this political problem.

We've got, we need to
help a local candidate.

We need to unseat the liberal.

We need to go and put ourselves
in front of a liberal.

If you got a liberal MP,
don't be afraid of them.

They can't do anything to you.

They're your MP.

They work for you.

They are your elected representative
and they should be reminded of that.

They do not represent
the government to you.

They represent you to the government.

So put yourself in front of them.

There'll be in your riding all summer.

There'll be hobnobbing, Canada day.

I can guarantee you.

Most of them are going to have a
table at the local candidate, a

parade, get out there and be like,
Hey, look, don't be an asshole.

Don't be like, Hey, what's
your fucking problem with me?

Because that will go exactly nowhere.

Oh, I got that far without
swearing, almost all.

Ah, I'm going to really
work it on that too.

My wife told me to swear less.

I've been trying, but it's,
it's tough, colorful language.

As I keep saying, I
like colorful language.

I don't know why people want to talk
in black and white, but I agree.

Go put yourself in front of the MP.

Uh, if it's an NDP or liberal, put
yourself in front and say, look like I'm,

I'll have, you know, that I understand.

You're just wasting a colossal form
of resources and I'm going to make

it my mission to ensure that everyone
here knows that unless you change

your too, and I'm happy to work with
you to change you in and educate you.

I could take you to a gun club.

I can show you the rules.

Like did you know that everyone
that has a gun license has a

daily criminal record check?

And if we commit a violent crime,
we lose our guns the next day.

So when, when people ask, is
this affecting violent crime?

You can tell them it absolutely is not.

It can't by law.

That's the way it's worded, you know,
and, and get out there because it's, if

we don't do that, then what's the point.

Like if you can't even stand in
front of a liberal MP, that's

representing you to the government
and say, Hey, what the heck, dude?

You know, We should probably
all just fold up and go home.

Cause I mean, this is
just basic civilian duty.

This is you doing your civic duty
as a voter to, you know, it's not,

it's not just dropping a ballot
on a box every four years, guys.

This is, this is being a
citizen truly, you know?

Um, and thank you.

Don't it's not Starship troopers.

You don't have to go to orange that's
so you can just walk right up to them.

It's not that hard.

So I would, I would definitely say
that that's try and get a subscription.

Sure.

That's great.

But, uh, yeah, no, that's actually really
important too, but also important is

the definitely go and put yourself in
front of your elected representative

and make sure that your opinion and
the opinion of all of us gun owners is

being adequately communicated to them.

I like it.

Get, get your subscription,
support your gun stories.

You're going to organizations,
your ranges, your clubs.

I mean Silvercore Club we've we
haven't gotten so many emails and phone

calls and uh, in the last couple of
days, messages through social media,

Yeah, because clubs will die too.

But just in case everyone
doesn't understand.

Like if, if this passes, like I've
been a club president for two years

past the allowable term limit at my
local club, I'm not eight anymore.

So you can't get me societies
that can have, um, but clubs are

run on restricted ownership, man.

Like you gotta have a club
membership to get a handgun.

Not legally.

I get it.

Your technical people.

Technically actually I
don't want to hear it.

Most of us just get a gun club
cause these way to go about it.

Those clubs all die.

Like if you like shooting at a gun
club, you better enjoy it while it

lasts, unless you start stepping
up because there ain't no way these

clubs exist 10 years down the road.

If there isn't any more handgun
ownership, they it's what people belong

to clubs for primarily, you know?

And, and that includes clubs that
have very vibrant other sections like

here in Colona, we have a club of 350.

20 of them are historical
reenactors that shoot black powder.

That's their thing.

Well, guess what if our club closes
down cause hand guns go while

the black powder is gone too.

So we lose that whole group of guys
that can tell you how Hudson bay, fur

traders, stitch together, their tents.

And they do this every year for
high school students and boy Scouts.

We lose that as a very real
part of our actual community.

Like, you know, the boy Scouts should care
that this handgun ban is going to affect

them because it means they lose that.

They won't get their leather
working badge next year.

Like it's, it's important to show
people that this isn't just the

fact that handguns are being frozen
and oh, you can't buy that 1911.

You want, in fact it is
not about that at all.

It is about the fact that your neighbor
can't get a doctor, you know, it's,

it's everything and it's right.

Get into that sort of mindset guys.

It's not, it is not just handguns.

If you like to zero your rifle once a
year at your local range, because it's

got a fixed distance probably should care.

Because you won't be able to do that now.

Like it's, it's that important.

And that stretches as far as
all of the businesses too.

I mean, caliber is magazine.

We have the ability to sell ads,
to realtors and car companies

and diversify our income.

And we're trying to do
that now to be very clear.

The reason I keep asking for
subscription so much lately is quite

literally because I'm trying to reduce
the amount of financial strain we

put on the industry because we've
been advertiser funded for years.

And with what's going on, I don't want to
go to the industry guys and say like, look

guys, we've got to increase our rates.

Paper rates have gone up a ton.

We've been eating those
costs because I really.

I'm aware of the fact that like I'm a
cost center for a lot of these companies.

I do not want to burden them.

It's much easier to say, Hey guys, 30
bucks for subscription, like it's 30 bucks

gets you like an eighth of a tank of gas.

Nowadays.

You don't even bat an eye
spending at the grocery store.

You send it to me.

It makes a big deal in my life.

And it reduces the strain on the industry.

These are the sorts of
things that we'll all die.

Our entire culture will just
cease to exist as gun owners.

And as a student of history,
that'd be tragic to me.

Cause I already look at old gun magazines
from the turn of the century even, um,

which I'm hoping to republish soon.

So the guys can see them.

Cause they're pretty crazy.

Um, yeah, like 1920s magazines
from like the Aiden days.

They're awesome.

Um, I've got the full, I wish I'd there on
my shelf over there, but the stack is like

this big, um, We've already lost that.

Like I can flip through that and everyone
will see all these articles go like,

wow, I wish we still had these fine gun
makers needs, historians that we've lost.

Well, whatever we got now is
what's going to be lost next.

So get off your ass,
basically start working.

Okay.

Daniel, thank you so much.

I really, I always really enjoy our chats.

It's uh, it's enlightening.

You're a, you're a Ray of light in
an otherwise bleak world here of you

provide a perspective that I find
is a really helpful thank you for

being on the Silvercore Podcast.

Thank you for having me always a pleasure.