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Real people share real stories of their dialogue with Nature. Hear how it feels to talk with animals, birds and landscape. Share the magic of cross species communication.
Created by award winning Nature writer and poet Estelle Phillips.
Instagram @estelle_writer44
TikTok @EstellePhillips
Dominic Cousins needs no introduction because he's one of The UK's leading nature writers. In this podcast, Dominic's hilarious description of scuba diving in the Galapagos leads to his most spiritual connection with nature.
Dominic Couzens:My name is Dominic Cousins, and I am a professional writer. I also lead tours and point people to wildlife. Actually the writing does that. I've been doing this for thirty years and I've got a column in Birdwatching magazine which comes out every month for example and that's been going for more than thirty years now. And I have a column in the RSPB magazine, people might have seen me there.
Dominic Couzens:That's been going on for a long time. And so longevity has been a feature of my career. I'm still here, and no one yet has been able to get rid of me. Started in the late eighties, and I'm still going now. So yes, and I've written quite a few books, which some of your listeners might have, if not, I've got a book out this week, last week called A Little Bird Told Me, which is a Christmas fact book with lots of utterly useless facts about birds and Christmas y themed, so, you know, things like We've got speculation as to which birds would be Santa's reindeer, for example, that sort of thing.
Dominic Couzens:So a prancer, for example, would be a bird with a prancing display, that kind of nonsense. There's lots of that. It's good fun.
Estelle Phillips:Can you say what was the most surprising thing that you found out while you were writing that book?
Dominic Couzens:Oh my goodness, there's about a thousand facts in there. A lot of them just came from my brain because I write about a bird every month, so over the course of years I've researched an awful lot of species. So a lot of really nonsensical things stick in the brain when you do that. But my favorite actually is not a British bird at all, it's a bird called the Eastern Screech Owl. And whilst I was, I think it was researching for another book, but what apparently they do is that the adults, when they're feeding young, catch burrowing snakes, and they take them, they put them in their nest, and they don't build a nest, it's the nest cavity.
Dominic Couzens:And the burrowing snakes eat the parasites that could be afflicting the young owls. They don't know whether they do it on purples or whether they just take snakes as potential prey, but it is, if they do it, in order to use some kind of sanitation, that would be, that's quite a story. That's probably one of my favorites. But my actual favorite fact from another different book altogether, not in this book, is that there is a gnat out there which actually beats its wings a thousand times a second, which is a wonderful fact. I mean, I just love these random facts.
Dominic Couzens:I could literally speak all day about different ones, Incredible. And I love finding It's good ones, isn't it? Yeah.
Estelle Phillips:Yeah. Absolutely incredible.
Dominic Couzens:It's called Forkipo Maja, the Midge. Everyone really wanted to know, didn't they? But they do now.
Estelle Phillips:Which country is it in?
Dominic Couzens:Oh, that's I think Fort Kippo Maya's fairly widespread genus of midges. I think they might be tropical, but I'm not actually quite sure. There's lots of them. There's a lot of midges in the world.
Estelle Phillips:So you've been all over the world.
Dominic Couzens:I have.
Estelle Phillips:Haven't you? Yes. Which of all the places that you've been, including The UK, where would you say you had the most spiritual or connecting moment with nature, and was it birds?
Dominic Couzens:Yeah, it's really interesting you should ask this question because I have a ready answer to this very question, which is very interesting. We've been already chatting for a while and I haven't told you this story. And it actually was in The Galapagos. I was in The Galapagos in August. And obviously The Galapagos is an amazing place, and it's full of incredible stuff, all of which is very famous, of course, because of Darwin, evolution and so on.
Dominic Couzens:Anyway, so one of the things was on a dive boat. I get seasick and I went on a dive boat for a week. You know, if you get an opportunity, you have to do daft stuff. Right? You have to get out of your comfort zone.
Dominic Couzens:If, you know, read the right sort of YouTube channels or see the watch the right YouTube channels, they all say the same thing. Get out of your comfort zone, and you'll grow as a person, all that sort of thing. So I thought, alright, I'll go on this dive this dive boat for a week. Anyway, so I did so, and we went to see this thing called a vampire gramfinch. That's another story.
Dominic Couzens:Anyway, so we went to this island called Floriana, and there's a mockingbird that's endemic to a small island off this island, that's why we went. And during the time in the Galapagos, we did some snorkeling. Now my snorkeling ability, I'm a terrible swimmer, and as I discovered, I'm an even worse snorkeler. I was so bad that our guide was beginning to get impossibly slightly frustrated with me. And he said, Well, what we'll do when we do the next snorkeling is we'll get you a flotation device, one of those rings.
Dominic Couzens:So I was so terrible at swimming. Anyway, so we went around this island called Champine Island and the guy said, we call him Champi, he's actually called Louis and this guide. And he said, this is where we're gonna snorkel later. And I looked at this place, I could see there were lots of fish. It's a terribly old story, sorry.
Dominic Couzens:You can see there's lots of fish, but it was cold, it was quite rough, and the nearest land was a long way away, it's quite deep and I'm a terrible swimmer. I thought there's lots and lots of opportunities to drown here. Anyway, we went round the island and had lunch I think, and then we said, right, Telipi said, okay, time to go snork. And then I remembered all these sort of self help books saying, you've got to go out, you can't that you'll be a better person. So I thought, alright, I'll be a better person.
Dominic Couzens:So off we went, and I was so cold. I got a borrowed snorkel and I went into the water, it was really cold, and I thought, oh well, I could be five minutes. So, Champy said, okay, what I'll do, with the parenthesis not included because you're so rubbish, end of parenthesis. He didn't say that, but he meant it, I know. Is that what you do, hold on to this, you know, one of those orient and white flotation devices, and what you do is you hold one end and then I'll put my feet at the other end and I'll swim you around.
Dominic Couzens:I was that bad at snorkeling. And I had this mast that didn't fit properly. Anyway, so eventually we went into the water, was very cold. And we could see there were a lot of fish, they were amazing. And they're very colorful and there were there were a few other nice things with sharks, black tip sharks around.
Dominic Couzens:And then, sort of every five minutes it didn't fit, so the water started to go out my nose. After about ten minutes my eyes were all puffy and I couldn't see properly. I thought, is this this is my comfort zone, but I don't feel like a better person. We went back to the boat and Champy said, do wanna go in one more time or shall we stop now? And I said, oh, I don't know, it's quite nice.
Dominic Couzens:I'll do it once in a while. I quite liked watching it. So anyway, we went into the water and I looked down and suddenly there was a call and a very exaggerated pointing. And in the water out of my comfort zone, three orcas swam past within about 20 meters, less than that, probably 10 meters away. And I had never seen an orca anywhere in the wild, I'd always wanted to.
Dominic Couzens:And a few days previously, I had put a little prayer in saying, Oh my gosh, Lord, I would love to see an orca and believe I'm a Christian. And then I forgot the prayer. And then in that situation where I was as useless as they come, I had no right to see something so utterly wonderful. The orca by the way is killer whale, is the other name, it's like apex predator of the sea. I mean all around the world missing them.
Dominic Couzens:And finally there it was and it just felt like a gift from that higher being if you like, God. And it was so extraordinary that, I mean, there were actually five of us in the water and we all exploded in a joy that you can't, it was extraordinary. Champy told us that he'd only had that experience six times in thirty years. And he was me, the most useless snorkeler in existence. Nonetheless, given the biggest gift any snorkeler could be given, true encounter with the apex predator of the sea.
Dominic Couzens:And so that changed me because the timing, we were only in there for half an hour. I didn't feel like it and there I was. And so sometimes in our moments when we're really not at the best for experiencing stuff, that's what nature can do. It can suddenly change you in an instant because you have an encounter with some kind. I mean, I understand this is a fairly extreme one I'm giving you, but this was where and I was actually crying after this because I just always wanted to see one.
Dominic Couzens:People that I knew well used to joke at me about it, you know, You know, I've never seen an orchard and they all go off in the corner and giggle. I'm exaggerating. Well, these are friends of mine, a lot of them. What do mean you've never seen an orc? You've been here, you've been there.
Dominic Couzens:Anyway, so that was an encounter which brought me really to, that was one of my deepest encounters with wildlife. Among literally thousands. I mean, you're right, I've been all over the world and I've seen some of the most wonderful things on the planet. And I will tell you one thing about that, and I'm going on, No, one one thing is, there isn't a single plant or animal of any kind that I haven't appreciated. You know, the very joy in being able to see anything.
Dominic Couzens:I've also got a lot of excitement from the partridges, red leg partridges which are seen in your garden. I'm not trying to put down those everyday experiences, but I have appreciated every single thing I've seen around the world.
Estelle Phillips:Can I ask you about the orcas? It's very apparent that you were deeply moved.
Dominic Couzens:Yes.
Estelle Phillips:And I was wondering if you were able to explain how and why.
Dominic Couzens:It's because, yes, okay, that's a good thank you for asking that. I'll tell you exactly why and it's to do with, as a Christian I believe that God loves you And I believe anyone that you love, you want to give them things. And I believe completely that God gave me that sighting in order to give me joy. And it's never been quite so obvious in my life as that encounter was, partly because of the sheer unlikely hood of that happening. There'll be people who've, dived for years and not seen anything like that.
Dominic Couzens:And it was a gift outside of normality, if you like.
Estelle Phillips:I'm very aware that something happened.
Dominic Couzens:Yes, something happened alright, yes. I mean, I'm sort of giving you a lot of reflection after the time, but I was on that flotation device looking through this ring and when they first swam by, I think we all actually swore, taking it right down, what the, you know, what on earth is that? That surely can't be happening. And so that was it. And then the second thought is, Am I in danger?
Dominic Couzens:Because obviously they are apex predators. But I've since learned they've never been known to attack a human being in the water, in the wild. So I then thought, that was my second thought. And then I suddenly thought, oh my gosh, I've seen one finally, I cannot believe it. And that's it really.
Estelle Phillips:What was it like to see?
Dominic Couzens:It was like you were in a You know they used to keep them in aquariums. When I was younger I'd seen them in aquariums, they were just like they were swimming past, they were that close. It was just like, also I suppose you could We've all seen the wonderful films on TV, it was like that, they just swimming past. I mean, as far as they were concerned, they were just these annoying humans they swam past, you know, and went off to do something more important. But actually afterwards we went back to our rib and we actually saw them again and actually had an encounter watching them on the water.
Dominic Couzens:So that was pretty cool. And that was on the same day as seeing a Floriana Mockingbird and a few other nice things too.
Estelle Phillips:Wow. You say that it changed you.
Dominic Couzens:Yes, it did.
Estelle Phillips:How did it change you?
Dominic Couzens:I think it changed me because I think when you have an encounter with God, it changes you. And I really think it was, honestly I can't say more clearly than that, I just think it was God's gift to me and the other guys, but particularly I knew it was to me simply to bless me. And when you think, hang on a second, I believe that God made those wonderful animals swim past me in order to just be kind to me. When somebody there's those occasions when somebody's been so kind to you, you actually it transcends a sort of normal experience. Sometimes people do that.
Dominic Couzens:You think, Wow, they thought about me. And then you suddenly think, Hang on a second, this is me. Somebody cares about me. And God does that through nature for me and he's done it countless times, so just because he actually loves me.
Estelle Phillips:You're also doing a lot for nature.
Dominic Couzens:Yes, well, I think
Estelle Phillips:Aren't you?
Dominic Couzens:Yes, of course.
Estelle Phillips:It's your currency, your world,
Dominic Couzens:is that It's my world, absolutely. I think we were talking earlier, Estelle, and what I'd like to do, if I can, in all the work that I do, is basically help people to fall in love with the natural world because it's given me so much in my life that's been good.
Estelle Phillips:What has it given you that has been good?
Dominic Couzens:Well, where do you even start? I think every day with nature is an enhanced day. So for example, we would just I mean, I'm looking out of your window now, Estelle, and I can see incredible things. So there's a beech hedge, and beech is a is a fantastic tree. Now you could walk past without seeing the beech hedge.
Dominic Couzens:Mhmm. And there's beauty because it's turning. It's the autumn now. The color is turning. The color is turning in the leaves.
Dominic Couzens:Nature teaches you to stop, look and appreciate. And that gratitude is a real currency of a good life. And I think it's very difficult not to be grateful if you love nature because it is so lavish and extravagant. It doesn't have to be as amazing as that encounter, I told you, but it's still extravagant. I mean, Britain has 24,000 species of insects.
Dominic Couzens:24,000, that's a lifetime. How many days would it do if you saw one every day? How many days would that take? And that means you've got something different every single day. The sheer diversity means that every day you might see something different, or even if you see the same thing, it might be doing something different.
Dominic Couzens:And then even if that's not enough for you, you can then look behind why things do what they do. Another part of my, particularly my writing career has been a lot of about bird behavior and other animals' behavior. And if you actually look at the systems of things and how they work and what they do, there are so many incredible, just intrigues hidden in nature. So nature is just like, it's a kind of different type of nourishment. And so, other people get nourishment in other ways to understand that, but nature has this extraordinary nourishment to us because it never quite runs out.
Dominic Couzens:And of course this then goes back to us helping nature. I think you need, there is so much negativity around about nature and helping nature and I think we need to be super careful that we don't let us get too despondent about it. Because actually, I think most of the great changes of the world come about either through need or from, you know, a bright spark in the positivity. Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, my part is to try and help people love nature as well as noticing it.
Estelle Phillips:Can you say about any other really meaningful encounters with nature? I have to ask you this while you're here, of that people would be interested to know about.
Dominic Couzens:I do, I do. There's been a few. I remember there was there was one this is quite funny, really. I was really at a low ebb, a terribly low ebb years and years ago, and I was in Richmond Park, which was I lived in that area. That's in London.
Dominic Couzens:And I remember thinking, as a lorry going pass, in case you're wondering. I remember thinking, and my life was just getting absolutely nowhere, was a product of quite a difficult first few years of life. And I just thought, what is the point of life? And at the very moment, a bird that I'd always wanted to see in Richmond Park flew over. Again, was like, yes, life is worth living.
Dominic Couzens:I have another quite quite good one. This is, again, actually this is from August, was the same trip I went after Galapagos. I went to Ecuador, and I had a wonderful guide there. And there was a really good life lesson came from a bird that we were looking for called an oscillated tapaculo. Now, this is rather difficult to explain.
Dominic Couzens:Tapaculos are only found in The Americas, Central And South America, and they're famously skulking. They're really really difficult to see. Many people have ended up in, you know, wards for the insane trying to see tapaculos. So anyway, the most beautiful tapacula in the world is called the oscillated tapioca, and it's sort of I could show you a picture. It doesn't help as a podcast, but it's a quite a big one, and it's, sort of chestnut with white spots on it.
Dominic Couzens:And, you know, the trouble is I'd I'd always coveted a view of an oscillated tapacule. You know, most when my when my contemporaries at school would be looking at sexy magazines, I would be looking at pictures of oscillated tapacules. And so anyway, so I'd known about this bird for years and years, and Juan Carlos said, this morning again try and see an oscillated tapacula, and he had paid a guide to show us this thing that they had on their homestead in the mountains of Ecuador. Anyway, so we went to the appointed place and we stood there for four hours. Nothing happened except we drank coffee.
Dominic Couzens:I like coffee. That helped. So nothing happened. Not a call from this horrible oscillated tava kilo. And I thought, now that's really annoying.
Dominic Couzens:But you know, over the years you learn, it doesn't matter. You think, okay, I missed it. That's fine. There'll be another bird along in a minute. So that's fine.
Dominic Couzens:I enjoyed standing there. I was in a forest in Ecuador. There are worse places to be. So anyway, the afternoon we went to a different location and we were looking for other stuff, we were actually looking for a thing called a crested quetzal. And so we didn't really we weren't looking for oscillator tapicules, all of a sudden one called from miles away.
Dominic Couzens:And so what happens in tropical forests is they tend to get their recordings out and they call these birds up. And so said, Juan Carlos said, we might as well try to do this. So he pressed the button, called the thing up, within five minutes we were looking at it. And I think the thing is that we tried, we failed and then we kind of let it go. We let the oscillated tapakula rest.
Dominic Couzens:And I wasn't thinking about tapakulas in the afternoon. And then the tapakula came and showed itself. And again, I don't want to do life lessons for every aspect of wildlife, but again, we just let it be free to do its thing. We made an attempt, and sometimes in life you do that, so, you know, you're desperate for something to happen, but we had to kind of let it go first, and then it came back to us. And I think that, although it might sound a bit twee, but again it felt like, okay, yeah, I'd actually, I didn't mind.
Dominic Couzens:Maybe that slightly opened the door for the tabicular to come and show itself.
Estelle Phillips:Yeah. Because I hear quite a lot doing the podcasts that people talk a lot about openness.
Dominic Couzens:Yes. Indeed. Yeah.
Estelle Phillips:Yeah. And that's a little bit what you're
Dominic Couzens:I think so, yeah. I mean you asked me to tell a story and that one came to mind, and it was a fun one. I mean I should, other trips and to wonderful places as well. One really nice experience I had concerned someone else actually, who also does a podcast, her name is L. K, l e l l e.
Dominic Couzens:And she and I and my very good friend Stephen Moss, who's another writer, we went to Costa Rica last year, and L had never seen a hummingbird. And we went to this wonderful place, it's called Hotel Kelitales, it's in Costa Rica, not far from the capital, San Jose. And I knew and Stephen knew that this place had 20 species of hummingbirds. And so every time we saw a different hummingbird, Elle exploded with joy in a different way. And it was just so fun to see that.
Dominic Couzens:And another part of my job is to show people wildlife, and so I wasn't actually leading that tour. But I do quite a lot of tour leading, including here in The UK and locally in Dorset. And what I love doing is if somebody may not have seen a kingfisher, for example, and so you take them to a river and you wait and suddenly this kingfisher flies past and they, again, they kind of explode. And I take immense joy in that as well, I like doing that. So that is another thing I like doing.
Estelle Phillips:Well, think the Kingfish is a fantastic place to end on.
Dominic Couzens:Okay.
Estelle Phillips:Yeah.
Dominic Couzens:Okay. It's been
Estelle Phillips:really wonderful. It's amazing being taken into all these distant lands.
Dominic Couzens:Yeah, it's a privilege to be there actually, isn't it? I've been very blessed to go to those places.
Estelle Phillips:Thank you.
Dominic Couzens:My pleasure.
Estelle Phillips:Thank you so much.
Dominic Couzens:Okay.
Estelle Phillips:Yeah, it's been amazing.
Dominic Couzens:Okay. Thank you.
Estelle Phillips:Thank you. Subscribe to Nature Talks With Humans for more true stories of people communicating with animals, birds, and landscape. Follow me on Instagram at Estelle underscore writer forty four and TikTok at Estelle Phillips. Bye.