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Cinema Scope with Andy Nelson takes you on a captivating journey through the ever-evolving landscape of film. Moreover, it offers a unique and engaging perspective on the art of cinema.
Welcome to CinemaScope, where we venture into the heart pounding, nerve shredding depths of cinema's horror landscapes. I'm Andy Nelson, your guide as we navigate the shaky, grainy world of found footage horror. Today, we'll be exploring the origins, evolution, and enduring impact of this bone chilling subgenre that blurs the line between fiction and reality, creating an immersive and unsettling experience that lingers long after the final frame. Join us as we uncover the secrets behind found footage horror's ability to transform everyday technology into a source of terror, making us question the very nature of what we see on screen. So grab your camera and brace yourself because we're about to embark on a journey into the unknown where every shaky step and panicked breath is captured in terrifying detail.
Andy Nelson:Joining me today is disconnected that's hard to say. Is disconnect is disconnect is Ryan Varel, podcaster producer and publisher of the physical media advocate. Ryan, welcome to the show. I'm thrilled to have you.
Ryan Verrill:An honor to be here. Genuinely appreciate the invite, and I'm stoked to have this conversation.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. There's definitely a lot to talk about with this, and, it's it's gonna be fun. And I know your background, like, you you're a fan of horror to begin with. And so Yes. In in the scope of horror, I I wanna just before we get into found footage, since we're specifically focusing on kind of found footage horror in that style of film, what drew you to horror?
Andy Nelson:And then, like, on top of that, what draws you into kind of like that found footage style?
Ryan Verrill:There is so much to answer with that. I mean, when I was younger, I was raised in a quite conservative religious household, and they still, did what felt dangerous for things like this. So like, I saw Child's Play way younger than I should have. My parents showed me Halloween when I was eight years old, and I still remember finishing the movie and my entire body being stiff sitting on the couch because I was literally afraid to move. About a year before that, somebody in my family, an extended family member, had showed me Carrie.
Ryan Verrill:And I was like six and a half, seven years old, not knowing why people were throwing tampons at this girl in the the shower, let alone what a tampon was.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Sure.
Ryan Verrill:So all all these things building up into this very questioning time of I am truly enjoying movies and and breaking these down and, like, spending time in these worlds. But then as I grew older, one of the reasons that drew me to horror is, and this is gonna sound very, very depressing, so I apologize in advance. But going through a lot in a household that was kind of broken and not being able to be emotionally invested in a lot of things, I actually got a lot of feeling out of horror. So I started turning to some of these literally as like a solace to feel emotions in a way of like catharsis to challenge myself to empathize with others, especially growing up in a house where there was very little empathy. And it's it's been a really nice sort of sanctuary, I guess, in that way, because you can discover so much, about yourself and about others and about other cultures.
Ryan Verrill:And, you know, that's that's the whole broad discussion on film in general. But even just for horror, there's this weird, I don't know, warm hug of we're all human, and all of these feelings are valid. Sure.
Andy Nelson:That's I mean, the sign of somebody who's done some work on themselves trying to figure all this out. That's
Ryan Verrill:great. Yes. Yes. What a
Andy Nelson:what a way to kind of like wrap all of that up in such a a kind of a personal way. I think that's really cool. Now how about found footage? I mean, do you remember the first one that you saw?
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. I mean, it's one of the big ones that we're gonna be talking about quite a bit tonight, I'm sure. I I think like many other people, The Blair Witch Project is probably the one that really got me there. And it was one of those things where it felt more dangerous because of how it was filmed and not not even just the found footage aspect, but it was it was grungy. It felt like somebody's like, hey.
Ryan Verrill:We're just gonna pull this out of the closet because we filmed it three weekends ago, and let's watch this thing where my aunt was attacked or whatever. And something about this being, you know, not even necessarily a genre because found footage in itself isn't a genre, but as a format. As I've gone through my film journey and learning what I like to learn about these things as much as I can, I really like the the I I guess it's kind of a dumb decision of being a filmmaker and putting yourself in a corner and saying, well, you're stuck here? Find a way out of it with your limited budget. And you're setting up these these very tight walls for yourself.
Ryan Verrill:And with that aspect, if you're smart enough to be able to find a way that's coherent out of that corner, it it can win. The hard part is with found footage, there's really high highs, but the vast majority of them are really low lows.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. That is the trick. But and, you know, and I I mean, I suppose we can talk about that as far as the horror genre anyway because there are plenty of low lows in horror Yes. Period. So that's just part of the nature.
Andy Nelson:Before we kind of really get into the whole thing, I just wanna just kind of get your impression. Just, you know, we're gonna start talking broadly, and then we'll get narrow. But I just wanna get your impression on how you feel like this style has kind of impacted the horror landscape over I I mean, especially since Blair Witch, since that really kind of, you know, pushed it so much into the spotlight.
Ryan Verrill:Well, and even then, I I think Blair Witch definitely made it something that was legitimate, which I think was sort of a question before that because, you know, we're gonna talk about another one of these tonight that is found footage, but also kinda not. It's also like a mockumentary that really kinda set all of this in motion from decades prior. But the reality is I think the idea behind found footage just freed up filmmakers to be able to make these with no budget. And that's the that's the biggest thing is if you can set out to make a make a film literally in your backyard with a handful of friends on a cell phone in 2009 and release that as a feature, which many filmmakers have, that's sort of this thing where it's removing the barriers of entry for all these people that, if they were born fifteen years earlier, maybe couldn't ever be filmmakers. Because most people have one of these cell phones in their pocket that can shoot HD.
Ryan Verrill:But this format alone gives them sort of an excuse to not need great lighting. It gives them an excuse to not have an elaborate set. You can literally be filming in a dry riverbed in your in your neighborhood and call it a film and it works, and it could catch fire with the right age and fan base. And suddenly, you're a horror legend that it can get any budget that they never would have been able to get without
Andy Nelson:Right. Right. And, know, it's interesting, on top of that, like you had, mentioned to me as we were kind of planning this, that there's a a a documentary about found footage out there called the found footage phenomenon, which is really interesting because one of the things that I found gratifying to hear, I think, is one of the directors talking about how all of what you just said is true, but it's a format that really requires you to work hard to make sure that it actually can can play. Like, you actually have to really think about every single thing about, like, why is someone holding a camera here? I mean, that's the thing that I think that you hear most often about this is like, why are people still holding cameras at this point?
Andy Nelson:It makes no sense to me. Like, that's a thing. And then just figuring out, like, working on, like, the performances and just making sure that as they're filming it, that the structure actually makes sense for something that feels like it just was naturally happening, and they happen to be capturing. And hearing that, I mean, it was gratifying because it made me think, okay. Yeah.
Andy Nelson:You can make it for a low budget, but it still requires you to work hard and still have to put in the effort to actually deliver like one of the good ones. Right? And I think that's important.
Ryan Verrill:When you when you boil this down, it really is just that dichotomy. Right? It's this it removes the barrier of entry to people that couldn't do this. But then on the other side of it, no, this this really removes the barrier of entry to people that couldn't ever do this. And for some people, that's a great victory.
Ryan Verrill:For others, it's like, oh, maybe there's a reason you couldn't do this. Right. Right. Right. Right.
Andy Nelson:Another note that I think I I think it's an important one is because I do I think you're right that this is definitely a style. It's it's a format that people can choose to, like, film it just like animation or something like that. But what I think what I have found is I've been kind of exploring this is that I really feel like because it is so useful to tell horror films this way that I I think that for the horror genre, I really think that kind of like the found footage style has become its own subgenre. I think you can fairly call it. There are so many of them out there.
Andy Nelson:I think you can say in horror, it is kind of a found footage subgenre that people use under that umbrella.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. Absolutely. And then now we're also seeing, especially with expanding technology and the everyday person being more used to technology, I guess, is the best way to say that, that we're seeing, like, the screen life films. We're seeing, more mockumentaries. We're seeing, you and I talked about, streaming movies where, you know, like, Gonjiam Haunted Asylum or Deadstream where somebody is live streaming, and that turns into a horror movie, which is it by definition found footage?
Ryan Verrill:Not really because nobody's finding it, but it's in a way, it's the same format, just given another device to be able to logically tell that story, which works. And it and it gives filmmakers another way to creatively use that, which is more and more common. I mean, we're streaming right now. Look at exactly how that works.
Andy Nelson:I know. Watch out behind you, by the way.
Ryan Verrill:There's a lot of fear in this room,
Andy Nelson:I bet. Well, I mean, I think what you're talking about, and I think this is such an important part of this, is low budget yes, very independent yes. A lot of that also comes with the changing in technologies. And I mean, the examples that we'll have, like, in the eighties and even the one, Blair Witch, like, you're kind of democratizing it because you're all of a sudden, camera technology, editing technology, all of this has gotten so much more affordable. And suddenly, instead of having to buy film and be super concerned about, you know, how fast we're shooting through the footage because we don't have that much money to buy another roll of film, or, you know, we have to go rent a flatbed to edit this thing.
Andy Nelson:Suddenly, we're in a in a position where, like, the the technology and the tools have become so accessible, where you can just teach this stuff in college classes. I mean, younger than college students, like, kids are using a lot of this technology. And it's and that's what I think is interesting that we've seen over the last several decades of just the advancement of technology and how it is allowed for those changes. And I think that's what's interesting about this format is you see those screen life styles or or like the livestream sorts of styles, and it's almost is like a technological evolution of of the found footage.
Ryan Verrill:You know, and one thing that's kinda cool about that exact same conversation is we saw this happen right before found footage exploded with SOV films as well. And a lot of people, they tend to look at shot on video films as a genre because just like found footage, they it opened up the world to cult film essentially, and that skewed really horror generally. However, like, shot on video is just a format. It's not a genre. They're shot on video romantic comedies.
Ryan Verrill:They're shot on video alien invasion movies. There's everything that you can think of. They're shot on video fetish films for god's sake, that, like, got wide releases that people actually saw. And so when you see, you know, filmmakers that are making widely known pretty decent horror movies at the age of, like, 13 that were shot on video, we we did start to see a lot of the same thing with found footage. So especially around, like, 2006 to 02/2012, a lot of those movies that were not necessarily getting wide theatrical releases, but maybe getting, you know, well known in the convention circuits or underground scenes.
Ryan Verrill:A lot of those movies were just sort of a hope and a prayer of somebody that suddenly had an HD capable cell phone and a semi good idea and found footage gave them the barrier that they needed to say, well, I'm stuck here and I think I can make a good movie with this specific idea as my basis. And for many, that's all they needed.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Right. They're they're with just that, they're able to kind of get something out there. And I think there's there is value to that. But again, it's when they're able to really smartly put it together, you end up starting like, even in the shot on video, you're still that still applies.
Andy Nelson:You know, there are still crappy ones and good ones. Right? Tons. Another element that I think is important with this found footage style is, you know and and this also ties to, like, pseudo documentaries, mockumentaries, of this, but there's this blurring of lines between fiction and reality. And under the umbrella of horror, I think that does an exceptional job of creating an unsettling viewing experience because suddenly, you're like, is this real?
Andy Nelson:Like, especially when you tie in some of the examples of things like Blair Witch's marketing campaign and things like that. That's like, wait a minute. Was this actually footage that hap like, it it makes you question, you know, where is that line?
Ryan Verrill:Not only that, especially because a lot of this truly started before the Internet was so pervasive. You get a lot of films that are literally just reputations and a wish basically. So, I mean, one of the biggest ones for a lot of people is like Faces of Death, which for for lots of people in the nineties, it was my brother's friend gave me this videotape, like, under the bleachers after school one day, and I watched it. And I think they're all real. You should watch it because this is crazy.
Ryan Verrill:People are actually dying. And, of course, like, the vast majority of stuff in faces of death is not real. There there are a couple things that are unsavory that we do know are at least exploitive, but it's it's come to the point where now you should be able to research a lot of that. But something like Blair Witch Project, likely not even truly possible in the 2025 realm of marketing and word traveling quickly in the way that it did back then. You know, even some of the things that got reputations for being so real that, like, people had to go to court.
Ryan Verrill:One of the ones that we're gonna talk about tonight, it it was so so believable that they had to go prove that actors were still alive. Lucio Fulci had to do that for at least one of his movies as well. That's that wasn't found footage. It was just one of those things that people seeing some of these, over the top effects or and one of the things that's a little more important for found footage is that it just feels that much more realistic because it's shot in a point of view way. People are just watching essentially somebody that they think is sadistic doing something terrible.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Yeah. That's a fascinating element because it that further blurs that line. Right? Suddenly, it's like now we're in the real world where we're having to defend ourselves in court about this this fictional movie and and what we've created.
Andy Nelson:And I think that also my last point before we kind of get into a little more is the this nature of truth in the digital age, like today, especially, like everything is you're questioning absolutely everything. There's an interesting element with the rise of found footage and the way that we were given the opportunity to think about this stuff, like, this real or is this fake? How much has that kind of led to this place where we are now, where everything you're questioning everything. You can't trust anything you watch anymore.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. Not only that. I mean, just the aspect of you're watching this essentially from your own two eyes. And I know you always are with the film, but because it's a point of view, you don't know where the screen stops and you start if you get truly immersed in some of these. And in all reality, some found footage that really nails that tone, it can be kind of difficult.
Ryan Verrill:And if you watch it in the right situation, and a lot of these not not necessarily even on a theater screen is the right situation. In a dark room on a Tuesday night when it's kinda cold outside, it might be the perfect time for you to watch this on, you know, a pretty decent sized TV and just go like, shit, am I actually lost in the forest as I'm watching this? It's it's pretty remarkable what they're able to accomplish with these.
Andy Nelson:No. It's it's crazy. It's just it's wild. Alright. Well, let's, I'm gonna introduce the 10 films that we're gonna be talking about, on the show tonight.
Andy Nelson:We've got, Cannibal Holocaust, The Blair Witch Project, Wreck, Paranormal Activity, Cloverfield, Lake Mungo, The Visit, Hell House LLC, Gunjom Haunted Asylum, and Host. The first five of those, we are gonna discuss on the main show, and our conversation about the other five will make up the member bonus segment for the episode. If if you're interested in learning about memberships, you can access the full conversation, visit truestory.fm/join, and look for the next real family of film podcasts. That's trust0ry.fm/join. 1 thing I wanna talk about before we get into, like, the films and everything is a little bit about the origins.
Andy Nelson:There was an episode on one of our other shows that that we have called Sitting in the Dark. That's part of our family film podcast where they each episode, they kind of explore a different type of horror. And one of them was, Tommy Metz the third ran that episode, and it was called the epistolary tradition. And it was about exactly this. And and looking at the epistolary tradition in literature, you know, looking at novels like Dracula, Frankenstein, Call of Thulu, even up to things like Carrie, and, one of my recent favorite examples is World War z, an oral history of the zombie war, which is a fantastic fantastic book, very different from the movie.
Andy Nelson:These are books that are written as if you're just reading journal entries, or in the case of Carrie, maybe like news articles, things like that. And and they're telling a story in this way where we're kind of outside the story afterward reading other people's thoughts about the goings on. And I think that's such an interesting way. They they talk about that also in the world of found footage is that this is something that you can in the scope of art, you can kind of follow the thread of these types of things up to eventually we're getting some of these found footage experimentation. You know, people filmmakers were experimenting with this back in, the sixties and seventies.
Andy Nelson:And, then really kind of gets to cannibal holocaust, which is largely credited as kind of being the pioneering, found footage horror film, which sparks a lot of controversy, but definitely laid the groundwork for this subgenre. And, you know, other early examples, the MacPherson tape, the last broadcast, I didn't even realize it until I was, like, looking into all of this, but I realized because I kind of always assumed that The Blair Witch Project was the first found footage film I also saw. And then as I was kind of doing my research, I was like, alien autopsy. Mhmm. Holy shit.
Andy Nelson:Yep. I watched that when it was live, and Jonathan Frakes was like, analyzing this footage with us. I was like, this is insane. And I'm like, it's totally fake. It's totally fake.
Andy Nelson:But it's so fascinating. And I'm like, no, yeah, but it's not real. But it just like the way that they do the whole thing is I mean, the whole idea for them is like, is this real, or did somebody fake it? What do you think? Right.
Andy Nelson:And it's like, it's fascinating. Like, you see all of these early versions that were around, but it's just like, I don't know. It just hadn't caught on, but it's it it had been in the in the
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. One more that I really wanna shout out in that time frame that if people listening have never seen it, highest highest of props to Man Bites Dog two. For those that haven't seen it, it's a French movie about a serial killer that is walking around, essentially done as a mockumentary and eventually, like, sorta goads the the crew that is filming this mockumentary to get involved and sort of start to side with him. And it's it's just it's super heinous. And it really kicks off that kinda, like, gross period of, like, 1995 to 2005 where there was a lot of these August underground type of films where they're essentially just, going around from a POV shot and torturing people in a way that's you know, they they had an idea to do some really great in camera effects that are incredible for the time for what they did.
Ryan Verrill:But now looking back, there a lot of them are kinda cheesy, but it was just this weird, I don't know, era of let's just make these super sadistic films that are shot from a point of view to make people feel super uncomfortable.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Even, like, there's a Japanese series that's called, like, the guinea pig series in the eighties where the I mean, short films, but still that same sort of thing. Like, let's let's make it look like we're really, you know, torturing this woman, you know, for forty five minutes. It's as she's the guinea pig, and it's it's kind of horrific that people would, like, even say, yeah, that's a great idea. Let's make it.
Andy Nelson:I don't know. It's it's a fascinating way to kind of just explore humanity and the way that people think and and what people do, I suppose, and making it look as real as possible in that way really kind of you know, it blurs some lines that makes you feel very uncomfortable.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. You you feel sort of sleazy. And even a couple of ones on our list tonight, you definitely don't feel great when you walk away from them. And, to be fair though, that that is the point. And like I mentioned when I was talking about why I love horror, a lot of these, that that truly is sort of the defining feature.
Ryan Verrill:You walk away and you have this sinking feeling, or you feel that film on your skin for the next three days and you can't get it out of your head. It's one of those things that just lives with you for a little bit. And to be fair, I mentioned reputations earlier, That in yourself will give a reputation. If something sits with you for a good three to five days after you watch a movie and suddenly it's a film that you'll dread watching again. And if you watch it again and you get that feeling again, a lot of people chase that feeling because it's something that still gets to them.
Ryan Verrill:And truly love it when I find a movie like that.
Andy Nelson:No. Yeah. It's powerful. I remember, you know, this is, just kind of an aside, but I remember Terry Gilliam talking about one of his films where he mentioned that he didn't care if you loved it. He didn't care if you hated it.
Andy Nelson:But if you were bored by it, then he felt that he failed. But he was totally fine if you walked out of it hating it because you felt he felt like he still accomplished something because he made you feel something, you know? That was his movie, Tideland, he was specifically, talking about, but which which I hated. And I love, Brazil is like my favorite film, but but that was a it's a very hard film to watch. I'm like, I cannot with this movie.
Andy Nelson:But, you know, it still worked, you know, and I think that's where these can still fit into that under that under that umbrella.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. And the I don't know. For some of these that start to get especially once we get into, like, the CGI phase of these, it really loses some of that power because they start to get overly cheesy with it. And I think the ones that have been successful since that turning point, right around probably about 2012 to 2014 is really like this confluence of just a glut of really bad films, but a couple that are just truly amazing. The ones that are successful after that are kind of miraculous.
Ryan Verrill:And I've really found a lot of enjoyment in and and found, I don't know, a a way just to extra appreciate the work that goes into doing something when there's so many easy ways to just cut corners now and and find a way to do, like, CGI blood splatter that if you're going through all the trouble to make it feel like you're shooting from a point of view and be hyper realistic, why are we wasting money to not have a couple blood bags? Come on.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Give us that sense of that that visceral feeling where we're actually there. That's part of what makes these work so well. A few other elements that I think are just important to talk about that I think you can see the trail of the origins as we get to especially when we get to kind of like that late aughts. First of all, in the nineties, we had this rise of reality television where people wanted to watch people doing whatever.
Andy Nelson:Right? That kind of became a thing that was huge, you know, with real MTV's real world. I mean, suddenly, we're like, yeah, let's just sit around and watch people. You know? I mean and then, and this is something that they bring up in found footage phenomenon, that documentary, is that rise of YouTube and suddenly how that explosion of what people could do on YouTube and taking the reality TV world and bringing that to what people want to watch.
Andy Nelson:And everybody is suddenly totally fine with watching shaky cam and, you know, all this, you know, low fi type of filmmaking, and that's kind of become all of our norm.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely one of those things that, can be done well. But again, like I mentioned earlier, so often with found footage, the norm is just sort of not not even up to snuff. A little bit of pun on snuff films there, but not up to a quality that in many eras of filmmaking would have even been released as a film because they're just not able to be successful in the storytelling or in probably the mission that they set out to tell through making that film to begin with.
Ryan Verrill:It's I don't know. It's an odd fan footage phenomenon, I'll say.
Andy Nelson:Very true. Very true. I see what you did there. Well, I, you know, I I, like to talk about, like, where things fit in the cinematic family tree that all of these movies, you know, fit in. And I already mentioned how that it kind of has become its own subgenre, but something that I think is interesting is how it also plays with other horror subgenres, and we're gonna talk about some of those.
Andy Nelson:But like monster movies, definitely a lot of supernatural slasher films, zombie films. I think it's interesting how you can, and and this, I suppose, really kind of plays with any subgenres, but the idea of combining different subgenres really allows you to kind of expand the possibilities. So suddenly, you can have a number of different unique hybrid experiences, I guess, we'll say.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. There's a lot that, you know, we we mentioned screen screen life films, mockumentaries in themselves, the streaming films. There there are all these interesting ways to, you know, I I tend to call them microgenres. There's literally these these groups of, like, I can probably only think of maybe 10 or 12 movies that fit in this microgenre, but they're so unique and singular. It it almost works and is necessary to discuss them as their own thing.
Ryan Verrill:And as this this, you know, if we're moving forward and something isn't gonna be in this micro genre, we should be able to call out those tropes the same way that we call it out in anything else and talk about how these are successful and maybe another micro genre is less successful. And the the the hybrid aspects of these is truly what can push a lot of these forward. And, you know, some of the ones that we're gonna talk about tonight that you already mentioned, adding a giant monster to a found footage movie sort of changed the game for a lot of people. That was probably the the second of like, oh, this can be this can be legit for way different things than I imagined with the Blair Witch Project.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a very different type of feel. And that kind of continues that evolution and really pushing the boundaries. And then comes the struggle of figuring out how do we keep it fresh.
Andy Nelson:Can we just keep doing that? Can budgets get bigger and bigger? Can Hollywood take over the found footage style and and just be churning out bigger budget things? Obviously not. It really didn't work out for Hollywood to kind of keep doing that.
Andy Nelson:But I I just think that as technology and and all of our media consumption habits, continue evolving, it's interesting to see how found footage has found ways to kind of adapt and stay relevant. And, I mean, the documentary points out, it it may not be as easy to make one anymore. And I think that's kind of a key part because in the age of social media streaming, what we believe anymore these days, is it still possible, you know, to even really make an effective found footage, or is it it gotten to a point where it's almost too hard now?
Ryan Verrill:Right. One thing that I think might be important to provide some context behind this documentary that we keep referring to, and I don't know if you know this aspect. So, this documentary was directed by Phil Escott and a collaborative partner with Phil. Phil is a producer at Second Sight Films over in The UK, a boutique physical media company. He also owns a company called Fractured Visions, another boutique physical media company over in The UK.
Ryan Verrill:And if you follow Second Sight Films closely over the last four years or so, one thing that you can tell from this documentary is that they were releasing about five or six of these movies. And Phil just went, you know, I have an idea. I'm already gonna have all these filmmakers. Let's just get them together for, like, a broader story. And so we're getting already this curatorial aspect of a company that's getting rights to these specific films they wanna release.
Ryan Verrill:And then he's coming into the scope a little bit closer to say, well, five of these are found footage. Let's see if we can make something fun out of it. And so you get this potentially slightly biased look at found footage through very specific filmmakers. However, the documentary does have a lot of valuable things to say, especially for people that are very new to this. And, you know, just, I'm sorry.
Ryan Verrill:I am the physical media horror, I guess. I do wanna shout out if anybody is at all interested in physical media. Second Sight Films is probably my favorite physical media company in the entire world. They put a lot of love into these things, specifically their release of the Blair Witch Project is one of the best physical media releases potentially ever. Wow.
Ryan Verrill:Literally. Like, there's so much that went into that. The book is giant. The special features, the the amount of work that they did to respect the producers of the film, which Lionsgate in The US never did, never was able to legitimize the film in a way that was really felt back in 1999 when it was, you know, this underground college campus phenomenon that it was taking the world by storm. And Second Sight, almost twenty five years later, literally swooped in and said, listen.
Ryan Verrill:We'll we'll we'll make you feel great. We're gonna give this the respect it deserves, and I don't know that any release of that film could ever dream of doing something as good as that.
Andy Nelson:Wow. That's great to hear. I'm gonna have to pick that up now because I'm so curious about that. I I am always curious though about, like, restorations of these types of films that are so low budget. It's like, I mean, I don't know how they release that one if it's 4 k or if it's just, you know, just a a Blu ray, but it does make me wonder.
Andy Nelson:It's like, how far can you go in a four k restoration of some of these lo fi sorts of movies? But, hey, you know what? At least they're putting love into it and and kind of trying to take care of it and and give it give it the love that it deserves. So that's great.
Ryan Verrill:The the it is not a four k disc, just so you know. They they did not add anything to it. It it is restored in a way that went back to the original tapes and cleaned it up as best as they could. So Nice. Yes.
Andy Nelson:Nice. That's very nice to hear. Alright. Well, we will be right back, and then we'll continue talking about, some more components and start getting into the films. Alright.
Andy Nelson:Let's, start jumping into the components. One thing I found interesting is over on the Wikipedia page for this, it listed six main techniques used in found footage films, and it said they often use one or more of these techniques. The first is the first person perspective, which seems pretty obvious in the case of these. The next is pseudo documentary and then mockumentary. Now, I was like, what's the difference?
Andy Nelson:Pseudo documentary, I guess, is is more serious, whereas the mockumentary is a little bit more satirical kind of playing with it. Usually, that's what you get with, like, Christopher Guest's type of mockumentaries, things like that. So I don't know. I would think maybe we're not seeing quite as much mockumentary in these as much as pseudo documentary, but I guess that there's still room for mockumentary in them, especially when you look at something like The Visit, which I think I think might might have some of that in there.
Ryan Verrill:I I I think a good example of that one would probably be The Last Exorcism for those that have never seen it. It's about a priest that is trying to prove that what he does is a sham, and while trying to prove that, discovers that it's less of a sham than he thought.
Andy Nelson:That's a fun one. We actually had, the actor Patrick Fabian on our show Movies We Like, which was a fun conversation talking about his experience on that and and one of his favorite movies, which was it was The Man Who Would Be King.
Ryan Verrill:Ah, nice.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Other elements, of these techniques, news footage, surveillance footage, and screen life. And so I think in the scope of this, let's just kind of, like, talk about how these techniques really kind of lend to that signature style. I mean, I feel like it's kind of obvious, but it's worth a little bit of a conversation, as far as, like, you know, the first person surveillance news footage aesthetics and everything.
Ryan Verrill:I think one of the big ones with the the news aesthetics that a lot of people still haven't seen is the last broadcast that this is arguably the predecessor of the Blair Witch Project and truly allowed the Blair Witch Project to exist in the way that it does. It's it's the first thing that sort of feels like the infamous War of the Worlds radio broadcast where people thought it was real. It was played very realistic with actual individuals from the BBC being used as, these these people essentially reporting on something that is totally fake, but not told to everybody and delivered in such a uniquely horrifying way, honestly. If you took it at face value, it is something that is hyper realistic, like we were talking about earlier, which can make you get lost in some of these. And so, yeah, totally lends itself to the found footage aspect.
Andy Nelson:Well, and and we see that. We see a number of these different things throughout. I think that there's there's such interesting things to include like that the news footage style that will certainly come up when we talk about wreck. Surveillance footage style, we'll talk about with paranormal activity. And they're all kind of really kind of used to enhance that sense of authenticity.
Andy Nelson:You can get to a point where, you know, perhaps it's harder to buy into as far as like the the reality of, you know, the the, you know, breaking the fourth wall, looking at our reality of somebody figuring out how to gather all this footage to actually create something that we're watching. The example I always think of with this is something like Chronicle, which, you know, I really enjoy Chronicle as like a found footage sci fi film. But it's like, who's out there collecting phone footage from all these people? Like, they really they really take it to extremes on that one.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. I I like that one too, specifically for the timeline of when that came out because the the superhero aspect had not been driven into the ground every three months with another movie, and it's still an exciting watch, specifically if you saw it in theaters then. It was like, oh, this, again, feels kinda dangerous in a way.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. No. Absolutely. And done in a way where, you know, the I mean, obviously, there's a lot of flying around and like that, but the CG otherwise was kind of minimal. I mean, you get some like crushing of cars and stuff like that, but it's not played like as big as we get into something like Cloverfield, you know, which is a lot of CG running around in that one.
Ryan Verrill:Right.
Andy Nelson:Well, let's start digging into the movies. The first one we're gonna talk about is, Ruggero de Oddado's nineteen eighty film, Cannibal Holocaust. This film is a controversial Italian film that follows a rescue team searching for a missing documentary crew in the Amazon Rainforest. The film is known for its graphic violence and its use of found footage, which was a novel technique at the time. As the team uncovers the crew's footage, they just discover the horrifying truth behind their disappearance and the atrocities they committed.
Andy Nelson:What's interesting about this, and I had forgotten, is that the entire thing isn't found footage. It really is kind of this news style story that we're following of this other group that wants to figure out what happened with this this group that went down to the to the rainforest and gives us kind of that that wraparound story as we're kind of before they get down there and actually get all this footage, which is the actual found footage. Ostensibly more set up than we get in a lot of found footage films where it's just like, here's footage that you're watching, and and this is that story on the outside of that. And I find that actually a fascinating element to this.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. In a way, this is that we we had just mentioned the different methods. This is like a pseudo documentary about a pseudo documentary in a way. It's sort of built in and a hard watch. For for many people that didn't grow up in the time of Blair Witch, they grew up slightly before that.
Ryan Verrill:Many of them will tell you this was their first fan footage film that they've seen because for most people, and at that time, it was. It was the first one that was done like this. And, I mean, we could we could belabor the point for a long time. But the fact that there's real animal violence steers a lot of people away from this movie. And again, I'm gonna mention this probably 38 more times, so I'm sorry in advance, but physical media horror, big fan of how some of these companies lately are releasing comprehensive versions of these.
Ryan Verrill:So for example, Campbell Holocaust has been released on Blu ray in a way where you can watch the film intact uncut the way it was seen in the theater and all that, or they have a cruelty free version. And it takes the stuff that was real animal cruelty, and it's just simply omitted. You can watch that without worry that you're gonna be subjected to something that's crazy. Mean, the the turtle scene in this specifically is horrifying. And some of this, you know, we we mentioned at the beginning that there were some that they had to go to court.
Ryan Verrill:Ruggiero Diodado was called in front of high court and literally had to bring the actors and say, no. Look. They're alive. I didn't kill them on camera. And this movie has some things that it still to this day do not look like they should be possible on film to pull off.
Ryan Verrill:And because of the found footage aspect, it delivered it in such a realistic way that people like, their lives were changed. They were scandalized. They'd never seen anything like this on top of the really gross animal cruelty in between that made you feel already off guard and just completely put off by that. And then when you think you're actually watching somebody be killed, it's it's gonna it's gonna mess up your night.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. It's a very I forgot how difficult to watch it is. I mean, I I hate anything with animal cruelty. It's so hard for me to get through, but I and I just have to keep telling myself, this was a long time ago. Right.
Andy Nelson:It's it's long since like, they've long since suffered, and it's just here now, and I just have to get through this. Same thing with Awaken Fright. I have the same problem watching that movie. You know? It's just like any of these.
Andy Nelson:But it's it's so hard to get through those scenes. But as you kind of brought up earlier on, one of the fascinating elements about this is it somehow makes all of the other stuff that much more it feel that much more real because we're seeing this real horrific, killing of these animals. And then suddenly, it's like now we're watching a guy brutalizing a woman who supposedly had been with another man and and killing her. And, like, we're seeing some stuff that it's like, okay. How much of that was true?
Andy Nelson:And that and that makes all of those scenes that much more uncomfortable.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. And and, you know, some of the infamous scenes from this, like the the impaling scene specifically, is is a shot that people have built as, you know, figurines that are just incredibly well made. Literally, there's like hand painted figurines of that shot out there that people are supposed to
Andy Nelson:have on your mantelpiece.
Ryan Verrill:Right? Right? I it's it's just one of those iconic shots that it because it shaped somebody's view of film, it will live with them forever. And what better way to memorialize that?
Andy Nelson:And one of the, downsides, particularly with this film, is how it shaped people's impressions of indigenous populations in in Latin America. Because, like, people are making these vast assumptions about these people that really was unfair, and I think that's a frustrating element. The the upside, I guess, we'll say if we can find one is that, again, we have that outside story of these people and the the filmmakers themselves are so sickened by the way that these people are behaving and how they're abusing these these indigenous tribes and everything that they refuse to show the footage and say, burn it. Nobody should see this. So at least on the outside, and maybe that's, Deodato's voice coming in as a filmmaker saying, let's at least let people know we don't think this is actually okay.
Ryan Verrill:I, can't wait to hear the CinemaScope episode on the Italian and Spanish cannibal films. When's that
Andy Nelson:coming in? Yeah. Right. But dive into the cannibal exploitation. Oh my goodness.
Andy Nelson:Yeah.
Ryan Verrill:It's it's a rough genre. I mean, the the reality though, at the heart of it, they're sort of exploiting the preconceived notions of people that were going to the film in a way that just damaged everything so much more. And some of it was meant to be titillating. Some of it was meant to to legitimately feel dangerous. Some of it was meant to just shock people in a way that was gonna leave a lasting impression and make their name as a filmmaker even bigger.
Ryan Verrill:I don't I don't like any of those movies anymore. I I don't really other than Cannibal Holocaust, there's not one of them that I've sat down with in the last ten years and went, you know, I'm glad I watched this again.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Even this one's a little tough, but still, I am I am glad that, I I I am glad I watched it again, because I do find it so interesting in how it fits into all of this, and really is a great way to set up this conversation about found footage horror because that is exactly what this is. Like, we are it's horrific what we're seeing here. And I think it's fair to say that there is a legacy that this film has left and and impacted a lot of filmmakers who have come since leading to kind of just, I mean, horror films themselves, but also the found footage.
Ryan Verrill:Well, I mean, this is gonna sound silly to describe it like this, but what happened to DiAdato in response to this with going to the court, There are filmmakers that would dream of that kind of publicity if they if they were forced to prove that their stuff was faked. Or, you know, it's it's like one of those classic things. They would dream that their film would be banned in 17 countries, and they could put that on the poster. It's it's such a silly era, but it's it's one of those things where Diadato is like the grandfather of this genre, and now people strive to do as realistic as they can sometimes.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Right. Right. Let's shift gears and start talking about the big one that we've mentioned a number of times, The Blair Witch Project, from 1999, directed by Daniel Myrick and Eduardo Sanchez. This film follows three student filmmakers who venture into the Maryland woods to investigate the local legend of the Blair Witch.
Andy Nelson:The film is presented as the recovered footage of their ill fated expedition, which ends with their mysterious disappearance. The movie's viral marketing campaign and realistic style made it a cultural phenomenon, which is I mean, I remember when this came out. I remember the movie poster in the theater, and just standing in front of the poster and reading the text on it and going, wait a minute. This is this a documentary? Like, I just the poster, like, made me question if it was a real film or not.
Andy Nelson:I that's so fascinating.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. And, again, this was on the brink of the Internet age taking over. And so with with word-of-mouth just traveling in a way that felt sort of, hey, like hushed whispers behind closed doors of, hey, did you hear this? There's this movie coming out where people actually died. And it became a real thing for a lot of people.
Ryan Verrill:But further than that, watching this movie, this is one of those movies that really epitomizes the idea in horror of those like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. So many people that look back at that think in their mind that it's much, much gorier than it is, that it's a much bloodier film. Blair Witch Project, because of this reputation that it had, people that watched it and couldn't see it on the TV or or on a VHS, you know, three months later, looked back on it and went, god, this movie was horrifying. There's so much that happens to this movie. And a lot of people, when they watched it again for the first time a couple years later, they went like, oh, wait.
Ryan Verrill:I I remember a lot more. There's there's, like, very little gore. There's there's not much else that happened. There's a couple memorable scenes, but, yeah, this is mostly just bunch of people lost in the woods.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Right. Right. And depending on how how, well you can tolerate the three characters may work better for you or may not work at all for you because, yeah, you're just hanging out with these three people lost in the woods for the bulk of the film. But for me, what I find fascinating, and and I think this speaks to why this film can still work.
Andy Nelson:And, you know, I do think this is a film that benefits from big screen treatment or, like, isolated treatment watching it, like, on a on a, you know, a screen in your house all in one fell swoop. It isn't a film that works if you're allowing yourself all sorts of distractions because you have to get into the the tone of what the story is doing, and you have to feel it because if you do, if you start kind of going along for the ride with these three characters as they're just panicking because they're getting lost, and then they start seeing these weird little piles of rocks and these weird stick figures hanging in the trees. Like, it it's just unsettling. And I think that's why I find it effective is because that feeling of unease just kind of just keeps creeping up. And then by the time the tent is shaking and everything like that, it's I mean, it is quite haunting the way that they build the tension in this, if you can go if you get yourself into that situation where you can go along for the ride.
Ryan Verrill:And that's that's truly the thing here. This is sort of a masterclass in, like, minimalist writing because you're you're seeing these characters developed and and frustrating you as they go along with things like, are we traveling in a circle? Where's the map? All all these other things that happen. And yet because of the time that they spent, you know, talking to those couple of townspeople in the beginning and really setting the welcome mat for what you're about to accomplish, looking back in the fact that a a world was terrorized by somebody standing in a corner, that's it.
Ryan Verrill:That's all the the scariest part of this movie is. That is incredible filmmaking. If you can make that a haunting scene, man, the audience is in the palm of your hand for anything.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. And again, going back to my point, like, if you're really in it, like because it was the very beginning of the film where you get that little conversation with these random people about the the the, legend of the Blair Witch, and that's where you hear about, like, they would stand the kids in the corner. Like, you've gotta be paying attention to hear that. Otherwise, that last bit doesn't doesn't make any sense to you. And so this film benefits from just being focused and just really getting into it.
Andy Nelson:And these filmmakers, I think, just tapped into something that just I don't know. This might feel the most realistic of, like, any of the films that we're talking about tonight.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. I I mean, especially as far as stories go because there's nothing visibly supernatural. There's no as far as I'm aware, there's no even special effects in this. This is literally just a bunch of people making making a very atmospheric creepy story told perfectly. And like the next one we're gonna talk about, some of these have built in fright, but this one, it does so much with so little, and that in itself kinda proves the idea of found footage.
Andy Nelson:This is an interesting one also. And, know, I'm I'm gonna say this. I actually haven't done any research on this, but this one is the last one that I can think of where we're actually seeing a blending of film and video, where the film is intended like, they are going out there to make a film on 60 millimeter filming it, capturing it all. So we have that footage, and then we have all their video footage, which is just what they're just filming all their conversations, just everything about documenting what they're doing. That might be the last time or it's the last time I can remember where we're actually kind of getting a blending of those two formats, especially because at this point, film, again, becomes more of a luxury item that people aren't necessarily gonna pay for.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. Of those two specifically, I think you're right. By that point, especially these people that are working on no budgets, being able to pay for film is a pipe dream for most of them.
Andy Nelson:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about Wreck. This is a Spanish film, directed by Jaime Balaguero and Paco Plaza.
Andy Nelson:In this Spanish horror film, a TV news crew follows firefighters on a routine call to an apartment building only to find themselves trapped inside with a terrifying virus that turns people into essentially aggressive zombies. This film is shot entirely from the perspective of the news crew camera. This also may be the only one I can think of that has been remade. Quarantine is the remake. That was what I saw first.
Andy Nelson:Love that movie. And then I saw this, and I I I don't know. I love both of them. I think that it's just a solid story delivered exceptionally well. Wreck is a little more taut.
Andy Nelson:And so I think, on this most recent watch, it kind of bumped its way up to kind of my favorite between the two. But it's just it's, I don't know, a really solid story. And what I I like about this is we're tapping into the zombies subgenre, which I always enjoy enjoy zombie movies. And it's a news story, so we're kind of following a news crew as they go around filming their TV show while you're sleeping. And the claustrophobia of this one just keeps getting tighter and tighter and tighter as the story progresses.
Andy Nelson:I this is probably my favorite of the whole bunch of films we're talking about.
Ryan Verrill:Wow. Honestly, it would probably be somewhere top three for me as well. This it I don't know. There's something extra visceral about this one. And I think one of the aspects that truly gets it, and you mentioned the claustrophobia, I think we really can put that into perspective because it's essentially a single location film just given the fact that we're in an apartment building, so there's many locations in the single location.
Ryan Verrill:But it again, in in many of these found footage films, because you're already restricting yourself to a format or a conceit, you're you're making yourself come up with creative ideas to deliver that successfully. And now if you're doing that in a single location, you have yet another conceit that you're building into that. And so they have to do certain things like there's there's not necessarily long takes like the way that we view them nowadays as, you know, some Mike Flanagan twenty minute thing that he's doing for Netflix. But, you know, there's some of these scenes that they they allow the tension to exist and not just not just in the paranormal activity way of we're gonna play a loud noise and think that we're building tension. This is done in a way where you are living with this person that is used to being on screen professional.
Ryan Verrill:They are wanting to be somebody that is you know, very very tight, very put together, delivering something to their job. They're doing it for a living, and now they're in this terrible situation. But because we are living in that moment with them, they show five different angles from around this individual before they sit for a moment, and then the actual moment of terror exist. And because you've lived through those first buildup moments, this movie can really get to a lot of people. This is another one that's best seen in a dark room.
Ryan Verrill:This is best seen with, like, you and maybe one other person on a couch kinda close together where you can feel each other jump, and it is it delivers on on so many levels. And I I think one of the main aspects, like I mentioned, is the main character is used to being professional. And so you are sort of unraveling with her as the film goes on here. And as as she comes into the scene at the very beginning, she is very much on the job. And by, I don't know, forty minutes in, she is pure panic.
Ryan Verrill:And you are right there with her just like Blair Witch if you have given yourself to this movie. And yet this one is a little less believable because it's essentially a zombie story. But, man, if you if you lose yourself in this movie, it is a ride.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. And one thing that I find so interesting about the film is that because she works for this news show that they're out filming, she and her camera operator, I find myself buying into their use of the camera so much more easily. Right? Right. Cloverfield, we'll we'll talk about that here in a little bit, is one where I really struggle with that often.
Andy Nelson:But here, it's just like, this is their job. They are wanting they know they have something. They wanna make sure they're capturing all this footage because, you know, you start getting these thoughts in your head. I don't she never voices it or anything like that, but Pulitzer, like that sort of stuff. Like, let's capture it because, you know, I'm here documenting this story, and how crazy will it be when we can finally tell the story?
Andy Nelson:And that's something that I I never find myself questioning anytime the camera's on in this. It always it always works for me.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. You know, thinking back, I I can't even remember the first time I watched this, but something about this movie every single time works. And for found footage, that's that's kind of an accomplishment. Some of these after that first viewing, they really lose their luster. This movie is insanity every single time.
Ryan Verrill:I I love this thing. And honestly, I know we're not going into detail in all of them, but this is this is a franchise on top of the fact that there's a remake, which also got a sequel. So there's, like, six movies associated with this, I believe. And they're not even all found footage. And one of them, I think, is half found footage, half not, but they're all worth watching.
Ryan Verrill:They it is a fascinating ride to go on and just bravo. This movie, it it everybody should see this at least once.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I the box set, I'm excited to kind of plow through because, those those other films aren't as easily as easy to find. So I'm I'm very much looking forward to kind of digging into them.
Andy Nelson:Let's talk about Paranormal Activity. This is Orin Pelli's film from 02/2007. Very busy period of time. 02/2007, '2 thousand '8, like Yes. A lot of the films we're talking about came out in that small small window here.
Andy Nelson:In this low budget horror film, made by a studio, a couple set up cameras to document the strange occurrences in their home, believing they are being haunted by a malevolent entity. As the nights progress, the supernatural activity becomes increasingly terrifying. Shoestring budget, Paramount Pictures released it, huge box office success with this thing, but it's so minimal and so relatable. And if it weren't for the final moment, I would I would love this so much more. What do you think of this one?
Ryan Verrill:This one, I I've got a long personal history with. And funny enough, there's another one that's gotten many sequels. I actually Yeah.
Andy Nelson:It's crazy how many.
Ryan Verrill:I think I like a couple of the sequels more than this first film. Quite a bit more, probably. I don't know. This movie is interesting because it brought a lot of people to it because it had that groundswell of support that, like, Blair Witch did. I I for a long time, and it may even still hold the record.
Ryan Verrill:I did not research that part. I'm sorry. It it was for a long time, like, the the biggest money making independent the way it was shot, and then it was acquired by a studio after, I believe. But, like, Orin Pelley made this without people even knowing that he was making a movie. He just, like, secretly made this in this house.
Ryan Verrill:And to to be able to pull that off with, a $15,000 budget is marvelous. And, you know, there there's some shots in this that, you know, I mentioned earlier the cheap kinda scares that we get here, which this one really relies on the jump scare aspect and you having a pretty decent sound system and this built in tension that sort of feels like the precursor to Christopher Nolan's annoying sound. But Paranormal Activity, it it sets the stage where you know a scare is coming just based on the sound. And so you're sitting here, and because of what they've done to you in the rest of the movie, your eyes are darting throughout all of the security footage that you're looking at. Where is it gonna happen?
Ryan Verrill:What what is gonna be the the problem this time? And because they've done it in five different ways before you get to this scene, it's still pretty effective in quite of those, which is interesting because you know a scare is coming. There shouldn't be much tension. But I again, it's kinda cheap. It's kind of minimalist to a fault in a couple of scenes on this, I would say.
Ryan Verrill:And then there's a couple things like the the baby powder scene that we get a little small aspect of CGI that I just don't really love on this thing. I I like the story. I like that it's something that pretty much all of us can relate to you or your spouse going, did you hear that? And there's something creepy and something weird's going on, and then suddenly you're unsettled for the next three or four nights. And that aspect alone makes this super approachable.
Ryan Verrill:It's just not a win in my book. This is this is one that is good, not great, but still, like, a foundation of this format for sure.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. And I think with this one, we really start getting or the filmmakers start getting the idea of, like, security cam footage. It's not exactly security cam footage that we have here. He's basically setting his camera up. He's using it during the day, and then at night, he sets it up on a tripod to film themselves while they're sleeping to see what it is that's actually happening.
Andy Nelson:And then suddenly, we start seeing just like security cam footage. It becomes very prevalent in in found footage movies moving forward because the people like, yeah, why didn't we have that idea? It's it's genius because it allows us to watch these people while they're sleeping. And I think that's why a lot of those horror moments work so well because, as you said, we know the scare is coming. But these people are so completely sleeping and completely unaware to the realities that something's going on.
Andy Nelson:So we're just sitting here watching while the sheet starts moving and puffing up, and then suddenly her leg is free and and and she is pulled out of bed and down the hallway. It's like, you know, I wasn't expecting that. And it's it's downright terrifying when you see things like that because, again, this goes to this style of it just working so well because it just feels so raw and and real. And I think that's why, for me, I I still count this as a win. I've only seen a few of the, of the sequels, but I just I find the style to be fascinating.
Andy Nelson:And, again, working hard to make it as real as possible, like much as close to what they're doing in Blair Witch as they can if it weren't again for that stupid CG face at the end of the movie. But otherwise, it's like, you can buy all of the stuff that's happening. And I mean, you know, the footsteps, I I get you on the footsteps as far as what they're doing there. But it just feels like, yeah, I I can see what's happening here and it just feels like it feels real, you know?
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. Obviously, you know, talking about the sleeping aspect, I think this is the first movie to truly capture a vulnerability in found footage that, you know, with something like Blair Witch, somebody could literally look at this movie and go, oh, these stupid teenagers. Why are they walking into the forest? Like, that that isn't here. This is somebody asleep and has no control, and they're just going to to succumb to whatever happens.
Ryan Verrill:The other aspect of this that, you know, you mentioned how it's why didn't we think of that when we were filmmaking with the security camera footage? One thing that gets overlooked in this so often is this is such a brilliant way to beautifully shoot a film because you could you could find a really great shot in this house that you're shooting in and say, well, this is where we're putting a security camera, and now the camera never has to move. I can set up the Nissan Sent to be exactly how I want it. I I know that I can pull a couple things from behind this doorway. I can get the this shot of the bed.
Ryan Verrill:And suddenly, this filmmaker is just brilliant because you don't have to touch a damn thing. You set this here, and it's literally on, like, a steel tripod that never has to move again. And that's that's a huge win for a good filmmaker.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. And it plays really well because you really get the sense that this did run all night because you're seeing, like, it gets sped up and, you know, it which I find very unnerving when she stands up, and then she goes and stands. And then the everything just speeds up. You see the clock ticking. You see her body kind of moving a little better.
Andy Nelson:It's like three hours of her standing there. I'm like, did they really make that actress, like, get out of bed and stand there for three hours while they just filled it? Like, exhausting. Like, I find that fascinating. I like, it makes me think, this is the downside is, like, my brain goes into, like, the production mode of, like, making this is, like, is that what they really did?
Andy Nelson:You know, as opposed to just getting in the story. That's maybe I'm too close to the filmmaking side of things. But
Ryan Verrill:I I had the same thought, like, the second time I watched this, I think, and I always wanted to rip the film and put it into some sort of editing software and change the speed myself and see if I could be like, oh, this is this is pretty natural movements now. And then you look at the time and go, oh, she only had to do this for, you know, seven minutes.
Andy Nelson:So Right. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Yeah.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. They can very easily fake that as far as what we're but, again, that goes into us sensing something that feels like the real world that they can totally manipulate. And it's just like, you know, we're buying it because we see that clock ticking away, and it's like, three hours later. Wow. That was crazy.
Ryan Verrill:Exactly.
Andy Nelson:Smart filmmaking. Alright. Let's, talk about the last film on our list here, and it's a big one. It's Cloverfield directed by Matt Reeves in 02/2008. This film follows a group of friends as they navigate the chaos and destruction in New York City during a massive monster attack.
Andy Nelson:The events are captured on a handheld camera, giving the film a first person perspective and a sense of realism. This is an interesting example. Initially, I was like, it's it's kind of more kind of a sci fi film, but I was like, you know what? And you were like, you really wanted to talk about it. I'm like, you know, I think you're right.
Andy Nelson:There's this whole monster subgenre, especially the giant monster subgenre that we have in horror films, And especially because suddenly we're jumping to such a big budget, you know, an opportunity to do something that JJ Abrams is involved with. And here we are with this new perspective on what you can do with found footage. How does this one play for you?
Ryan Verrill:I was not somebody that was raised on monster movies that or this type of monster movie necessarily, the like the Godzilla or, Tokusatsu or anything like that. It it wasn't something that was big in my house. But, man, Cloverfield really got to me around this time because I again, I'd fallen for the Blair Witch Project. I'd went back and watched the last broadcast and a couple others went, man, this is this is a really cool conceit to be able to do this with the film. And then Cloverfield came and I just mind blown.
Ryan Verrill:You know, I I think I saw this before I watched Chronicle, and it was really just an expansion of, they can really do this with the movie. And I appreciated so much the the fact that I I think it's like the first twelve minutes of this is just somebody documenting their last day in New York, and and they're hanging out with friends, nothing crazy. And then there's no cut or anything like that. It's just suddenly chaos. And the way that you you live in this world with stuff happening, it's it's one of those things where on one side, it the found footage aspect really makes this an interesting way to capture a completely nonbelievable story, obviously.
Ryan Verrill:But then the other side, I think this is the first movie that is found footage that made me go, okay, listen, why are we really filming still? All of this is happening. TJ Miller would not be holding this camera still. And I looking back on this, I I truly appreciate this movie for so many different reasons. One of them being, I showed my kids this movie.
Ryan Verrill:This works really well as, like, a a first horror movie watch and loved it. Both of them were really stoked on it, but it works in so many different ways because it is so frenetic. This is a movie where you are just scattershot across a city in danger in every single situation. You are worried about not only, you know, all these monsters, but the people near you and the situations that you're in and what you're breathing in even. And so the fan footage aspect does make you feel grimy in all of these situations in this movie.
Ryan Verrill:And you do, as a viewer, feel a lot more vulnerable, I think. But, yeah, I I think the the unbelievable aspects do hurt it a little bit. I'm just glad that it worked and that it it seemed to be sort of like that last major pillar in this format for many people. And I I think truly holds up. I I think this one stands kinda the test of time that this could have been seen as very cheesy.
Ryan Verrill:Still works for me.
Andy Nelson:Of all of them, this is the one that fluctuates as far as like and I don't know if it's a mood thing or whatever, but like, when I watch it, it can either work for me or it can really annoy me. You know? And I I think that it's interesting, and I think some of that is the the Hollywood gloss to it. Like, it feels like we're still supposed to buy that it's like a real story. Like, I don't know.
Andy Nelson:Something that works so well in so many of these found footage films for me is that I have this, like, this I mean, often it's because the actors I've never seen before, and it just feels like this is something that is real. And I just happened to be somebody captured it, and now I'm watching this, and it feels like that, you know, again, that kind of whole pseudo documentary feel. This is like such a big Hollywood scope that it's there are elements that work. Like, I I love everything that you're saying about how the film is set up. We kind of are, like, watching one tape of a relationship before suddenly somebody's accidentally taping over that footage, and we're getting this other story about, like, a goodbye party a month later and all of this sort of stuff.
Andy Nelson:The way that all of that plays and then suddenly is interrupted in the most bombastic of ways as as explosions are ripping through Downtown Manhattan, a few miles away from their way where they are, and then suddenly, like, the Statue Of Liberty's head comes crashing through, you know, through the air and crashing down the street, right next
Ryan Verrill:to their by the way. They they pull that off so well.
Andy Nelson:It it is except and this is, I think, my the other complaint that I have with it is, like, because we're in this world of found footage, when it's when it goes to CG, and I find myself not buying the CG, it pulls me out because it's found footage, and I'm supposed to be feeling like it's real world. And I love the effect with this the Statue Of Liberty. It's when they have the still shot of her head on the street. I'm just like, it doesn't really quite look right. I don't think they quite got that.
Ryan Verrill:Right.
Andy Nelson:And then I really have that problem when we are dealing with Clover, the monster later in the film, not to mention all the little babies that are running around and stuff like Oh, yeah. The CG and I don't know. I I find it interesting. You mentioned this with like when somebody's using CG blood in in one of these, and how it's just like, come on. And, you know, this obviously, they have to use CG in something like this.
Andy Nelson:But I mean and I can I can totally let go of it and go along for the ride? I I really do enjoy this film. I'm just like I'm just like as a you know, finding a criticism just because of the conversation, it's just like, when I really look, that's what bugs me the most, is kind of that is dealing with that CG aspect because it can I find that it can pull me out of what I'm watching?
Ryan Verrill:It's a bit distracting, especially in about four or five scenes specifically. I mean, you mentioned the babies, the tunnel scene. There's a couple shots that are super sketchy that just don't quite work necessarily, but at least the fear aspect is still there in those. And so you're already unsettled because something is a little uncanny valley like in those shots. This one too, I I think we probably should mention that this is easily the closest that we've gotten to the Blair Witch level of marketing.
Ryan Verrill:This was a phenomenon. I mean, people had no idea what was coming. The whole team behind this had literally built a grassroots campaign of everybody has heard of this and everybody's gonna want to see this. So much so that, I mean, they they filmed a whole other movie and debuted after the Super Bowl, not even originally meaning for it to be a Cloverfield movie. And that's the third one after they did another one where they tacked on a Cloverfield ending to it, which also worked.
Ryan Verrill:And, I mean, you even mentioned in, I think it was the comedy episode about John Goodman. Like, the performances that we get and stuff like that delivers the the realistic and believable aspect of that a little bit more because he's so damn good in that second movie, which isn't found footage. But, you know, this one specifically, TJ Miller is not the greatest, but a couple of the other people that are truly, like, almost believably responding to these unbelievable situations just dials up that notch of, realism slightly at least in a sea of, yeah, mediocre CGI.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. And that's and that does make it frustrating for me. And and and it's frustrating because, like, in a big budget story like this, you can have a bridge sequence, which they have here, which I am totally on board with. Like, the terror of, like, mass exodus across a major bridge, and then suddenly a disaster happening on it, and the bridge is, like, falling apart and stuff, and you're trying to get off before it collapses. Like, that really plays.
Andy Nelson:Like, that played exceptionally for me, especially this time. Like, I just I felt the emotion with that. So it's it's that balance, and it's it's interesting because this didn't really push Hollywood to crank out a whole bunch of other found footage movies. And I find that to be interesting because, I don't know, maybe they just I I guess I'm not really sure. Like, why wouldn't this be something that they would wanna try more of on a big scale?
Andy Nelson:Is it just something they're like, oh, it's JJ Abrams just playing with his mystery box and just doing something that, you know, only he can do. I don't know. I I find it odd.
Ryan Verrill:It's a good question. And what what's crazy is the independent filmmakers really grabbed onto it and responded with a flood of those films. And some of those are, you know, truly great, have been, you know, building their own reputations that will never be as big as Cloverfield, obviously, because it's Cloverfield. But, some of those that, you know, in response to paranormal activity in Cloverfield where they're they're telling these stories and not just like the actual filmmaking stories, but the behind the scenes of, again, not to mention the same thing about paranormal activity, but a guy in his house with $15,000 can make a movie that 30,000,000 people go see. That is pretty much every independent filmmaker's dream right there.
Ryan Verrill:$15,000 is nothing.
Andy Nelson:That's absolutely what people want is to be able to, like, have that hit. But how do you do that? And, you know, I suppose in the scope of it, it's like, yeah, especially these days, like, how do you achieve that? It it's become more and more difficult to get to a place where you can actually make that magic happen.
Ryan Verrill:I mean, shoot, it's more and more difficult just to get an actual distributed release nowadays, let alone let alone a hit. I mean, streaming, you know, a lot of people talk about it being ease and accessibility for a lot of people. I feel like it's kind of been the opposite. We we've we've ruined the cinematic idea, which where they're limiting that to major blockbusters. Pretty much everything that's in a theater was made for a hundred and $50,000,000 or $12.
Ryan Verrill:There there's no in between anymore. And then to get on a streamer, you have to use all of their cameras and have three major stars attached just to even get on the door. It sucks.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. It's there's a whole conversation there about about the way our industry has certainly shifted, which is very true. But I mean and to your point, it it does make it that much more difficult for somebody to, like, make one of these and actually make a mark with it. It's a very difficult industry right now to kind of crack into. I mean, it's always been hard, but now there's such a glut of stuff that you're competing with.
Andy Nelson:It's very, very tricky.
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. And I I mean, even the the things that used to be, we'll say, few and far between, like film festivals. Now there's so many film festivals and a a lot of sham film festivals that, it's it's hard for independent filmmakers to even wade those waters to try.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. There are so many out there. It's it's a it's kind of gotten to a point where it's ridiculous. You know? Agreed.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Alright. Well, we will be right back. We're gonna talk a little bit more about its influences and, go from there. So talking about, like, the influence that found footage has had, you know, I mean, it did gain mainstream acceptance, which is great.
Andy Nelson:I think it's fascinating format. I think that there's a lot of complaints to be had with it. You know, people still like, we've talked about the struggle of, like, why are they filming still? Right? You have these sorts of things.
Andy Nelson:But, we've talked about it, like, how it's harder to succeed with this technology as audiences' expectations continue to evolve. I mean, how do you think filmmakers can actually use this to kind of innovate and keep this subgenre fresh?
Ryan Verrill:It's a great question. I I think that we're seeing a lot of success in some of those microgenres that we referred to earlier. So probably a good time to discuss things like the screen life films. I know in COVID, you know, when obviously production was already really difficult to get people in the same rooms and all the testing that had to be done and everybody that was on set for all that, something like Host was able to be successful in a way that, sure, it's a fifty eight minute film, but for a lot of people, it is still by far the most effective sort of screen life, not not necessarily screaming because they're just sort of on video calls to each other. Really great version of the story that they can still do some really great effects with and pull off of a very compelling story that was centered around COVID at the time.
Ryan Verrill:Another one is is not necessarily horror, to be able to make a movie like, searching with, John Cho and and be able to use all these aspects of, recorded phone calls and, news footage that you're pulling off the Internet to see a video and watching clues where they left them in their photo gallery because they took a video on their phone, sort of building that case to lead to a story. In a way for a lot of people, this is sort of like a a true crime mystery horror movie. Searching is quite effective. And that was the first time that for a film like that, I think they actually pulled it off for the most part. There's a lot of aspects of that that could have been lost in the weeds.
Ryan Verrill:And I I think that the the filmmaker made some wise decisions and didn't oversaturate it with voices that didn't need to be heard. But, yeah, I I I think blending some of these super tiny microgenres or taking a risk on a new technology like we discussed, like the the the Twitch streaming aspect. Something like Deadstream is such a unique look at literally just a regular old haunted house movie. But because there's a camera around this guy's neck, it changes the way that you even approach how the story is not just going to be told, but how the viewer is going to be looking at it. Are they going to be shoot.
Ryan Verrill:Are are they even going to be siding with our narrator, or or is he, like, a terrible host that they kinda hope bites it? It's one of those things that it's it's gotta be a question. You know, what is the motivation behind every scene that you're setting up for a film like this? And, yeah, it is technically found footage in multiple ways, but it's a very different style than Campbell Holocaust or Blurry Witch Project.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. The those styles are so fascinating because it really taps into, like, again, screen life. We're staring at a computer. Like, that's the whole idea. I think, it was, Timur Beck Mamatoff, who, like, when he did unfriend or was producing, I think, unfriended, had the idea of, like, it has to feel like you never leave your computer screen.
Andy Nelson:And so that idea of, like, you're watching, like, you've got the the count of views on one side. You've got comments, you know, running through, like, on on on Deadstream. You got just all those comments, which are so fun to read. We definitely get a hint of that when we'll talk about Ghonjam haunted asylum when we talk about that in our, member content. But I think that is really the evolution, and and we're seeing where things are going because there has been such a rise of screen life.
Andy Nelson:I mean, that's how all of us live essentially now. But it's even blurring that line between real and fake footage even more, and I think that's what's, I don't know, dangerous. I'm not really sure, but, like, it's it's hard to maintain a sense of authenticity and and immersion, really, because it's like, I don't know. People are so cynical, you know, I guess, as they watch things, it's like, are they going to get themselves into the story?
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. And and that's where a lot of these are because it's about, like, a streamer, I guess, like with Deadstream, it all sort of falls on that main character. Are they a reliable narrator? Are they somebody that we are empathetic to? And for some movies, that that doesn't matter.
Ryan Verrill:Like Deadstream, you kinda hate the guy for, like, half the movie. And then eventually, you're like, oh, now I kinda feel bad a little bit.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Right.
Ryan Verrill:There there are some other movies that have been making the rounds like on Shudder that they're setting this person up to be hated the entire time. And for some people, it kinda colors the way they've they've seen these movies, I've found. A lot of people like commenting on them on on my show. They are they will say, because I didn't like the main character, I was never gonna like the movie, which I kinda find fascinating because it it truly is like the the center of this framing that we're doing. However, you're not meant to be empathetic to every main character.
Ryan Verrill:Like, we have anti heroes. I mean, we all watch taxi driver and go, dang, he's a great actor. It's not, dang, I wanna be Travis Bickel. There's there's a lot going on that in in a film, you should be able to separate those two. But with with streaming, it's like real life.
Ryan Verrill:There's so many of us that know really shitty social media personalities that stream every single day of their life. And so that, like you said, is starting to blur the line. And so many of us can relate because, man, I used to watch that person for six months until they were terrible. Are are you watching somebody get terrible right before your eyes and you hope that this this ghost in the upstairs bedroom just eats them? Yeah.
Ryan Verrill:Right. Exactly.
Andy Nelson:Well yeah. And that that speaks kind of to some ethics, in this as far as, like, we're painting these stories. I mean, again, we're watching all of this stuff in real life now and, you know, often questioning what people are saying, what people are doing. And now here we're in this situation, and it's interesting as a way to kind of, like, come around full circle because we talked about that earlier with Cat Catabol Holocaust and how the filmmakers who are who found the footage, they are expressing their own ethical concerns about what those people did. And here we are now in a situation where it's like the audience and us.
Andy Nelson:It's like and just I mean, people who are holding their phones up every time they see any sort of confrontation, phones are up. They're filming it just in case they get something juicy that they can post. We're in this world now where, like, everything seems real. And, I mean, what I don't know. This might be too big of a conversation to delve into, but just like the ethical concerns when it comes to, like, marketing tactics or even just the production style when you're making something that's real.
Ryan Verrill:It's a great question. I mean, on that front, we've sort of jumped the shark a long time ago with how many things are, you know, they've got that black card before we even go into the film that says these are based on a true story or inspired by a true story. Most of the time, those are a lie. It's not something it's just there for you to set your mindset up to go, oh, this is this is a little more real than Forrest Gump when I watched it. These are the the type of films that will mess with people and gain a reputation of somebody that didn't do any research and go, well, goddamn, that that movie was real.
Ryan Verrill:It's a story that I heard once or whatever. I mean, you could talk about the marketing for Blair Witch. People all over just leaned into the fact that, Oh yeah, these college kids are dead. Cannibal holocaust. The marketing behind this movie banned in so many countries, and we had to go to court to prove that these people are real.
Ryan Verrill:Where where do we draw that line? Where is it okay to to lean heavily into that, and when are we literally lying to an audience?
Andy Nelson:It's a fascinating line, and I think I don't know. I I I look at the possible, like, how can this subgenre evolve in this world where everything is questioned, everything is so easy to, like, research and find information now. But I can't help but feel like that's the way in moving forward is to find a way to tap into exactly that. People buy into everything at a whim. So make something that about people buying into something.
Andy Nelson:You know? Like, that's how you tap into it. And I think that's I don't know. I guess I haven't seen that next step of found footage where people are I mean, it's it's such a dangerous potential market for doing that now. It might not be the smartest type of storytelling to do
Ryan Verrill:Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Nelson:With people buying into the things that, did so easily. But that's, I think, an interesting potential, future for for this. If if it is going to find a way to continue, I think that's gonna be one of the things that they're gonna have to tap into and figure out.
Ryan Verrill:At the risk of derailing this slightly, because it's not found footage whatsoever, I would really think that one of the the great examples to point to this in recent time is the film Red Rooms. Did you get a chance to see that one?
Andy Nelson:No, I didn't.
Ryan Verrill:I believe it's a French Canadian film, and it's essentially it's a woman that is attending a court hearing. This is an ongoing trial. She is here to see somebody that is up for murder. This is somebody that is suspected of killing multiple people. And we see some home interactions with this woman where she is living a very minimal life.
Ryan Verrill:And online, she is somebody that's just super deep into the true crime aspect. And she's found places online where you can, like, use Bitcoin to buy videos of people being murdered. And it tells a story in a truly brilliant way and goes into it it doesn't, like, speak on it in the film, but because of the way the film progresses, naturally, anybody with a quarter of a brain walking out of red rooms can start to think, like, wait a minute. About a third of the way into this movie, I was sort of enjoying it. Am I just as bad as the other people that are in this?
Ryan Verrill:Am I somebody that just paid $15 for a movie ticket that wanted to just get you excited about watching somebody die. And the story goes in ways that are deeply innovative, I I think. It's done in a way that feels very fresh. Some of the best acting in the last three or four years I've seen highly, highly underseen film. It's it's got a really great, really great reputation from those that have seen it.
Ryan Verrill:Most people tend to love it. I I think in The US, most places didn't get it till, 2024, but I think it came out in 2023 elsewhere. So, definitely need to look into that. It's an it's an incredible movie. And I I think people that are even fairly interested in, the screen life type of movies or the true crime aspect, It's a movie that, could help push some some of your comfort zone boundaries.
Andy Nelson:Interesting. Interesting. I will have to check that one out because, again, you're right. I mean, it sounds like it's not gonna be a found footage, but in the scope of finding ways to tap into where we are now, that sounds like exactly what I'm talking about. Like, how can you tap into that to advance this this particular story?
Andy Nelson:It's really interesting, and I, am very much looking forward to seeing how, filmmakers kind of continue navigating it. You know? Last question, and I suppose this is just kind of like a plug because, you know, we have been talking again, as I said, I I really do feel like this has become kind of a horror, like its own subgenre of just like a type of horror, but there are a lot of different found footage films that aren't horror. And I wanted to see if you had any other favorites, favorite examples that were worth calling out just so people who may wanna look at something that's not necessarily horror that they could also check out?
Ryan Verrill:A a big one for me, who was raised in Southern California, who loved, the show Cops. My uncle was, an LAPD detective when he was on an episode of Cops. I anyways, all the way a weird lead in to say, I truly do not like David Ayer, but the film End of Watch is a magnificent, magnificent feat of filmmaking that should not work in the way that it does. A lot of it is unbelievable, but truly the chemistry between the two leads, primarily Jake Gyllenhaal, is astonishing in pretty much everything that he touches. This movie is so damn good.
Ryan Verrill:It is such an interesting blend of clearly, like, realistic things that you probably saw on these cop shows growing up to something that just would never happen the way that they're showing in the movie. And it's it's a really interesting story. Just I I kinda wish it was somebody that wasn't David Ayer. But honestly, Chronicle is still one of my favorites. It's ones that I go it's one that I go back to at least every couple of years because it felt so I've used this a couple of times tonight, but, like, genuinely dangerous.
Ryan Verrill:It felt like it's some teenagers that got a little too much power. And to show how that could, you know, sort of corrupt you quickly, the the way that we've, you know, all heard throughout these novels of, like, Animal Farm and these crazy things of kids going crazy on islands and and books we're required to read in eleventh grade. But this thing is just it's an astonishing way to deal with the conceit of found footage. And it was just barely in that time frame of this might be sort of a believable story to see because now, like, the the iPhone gets announced right around when this comes out and people go, oh, like, cameras in everybody's pocket is likely about to happen. This is about to be a real big thing.
Ryan Verrill:And so this isn't the sort of Blair Witch Project. We're going into the woods with a video camera intent on filming something. This is more like, we're just a bunch of friends in a shopping center parking lot gonna try to do something cool. And this is what it turns us into. And that in itself is vulnerable and terrifying and really, really easy to corrupt somebody.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. It's a fascinating film, and it it it plays so well still. Like, it taps into kind of that high school mentality of of people who are end up with something, that gives them too much power. And as we know, with great power comes great responsibility, which they don't have.
Ryan Verrill:I've heard that before. Yeah.
Andy Nelson:Yeah. Right. Right. I just wanna throw out a really interesting one that, is very indie low budget, but it's called Lunopolis. I don't know if that's one that you've heard of, before, but it is a a sci fi film about two filmmakers who they find this mysterious device, and they start kind of digging into this conspiracy about people living on the moon, and who who are from the future, and they time traveled back, and they're living there and and changed our history and all sorts of stuff.
Andy Nelson:And and on top of that, there's this very powerful organization that starts chasing them as they start digging into the secret. It's definitely indie, but it's a really creative non horror take on on the found footage, style of filmmaking. And so I I don't know. I like plugging it. It's definitely worth checking out.
Ryan Verrill:Definitely one I gotta see. And I one that I'll I'll just really quickly mention because I know it has a lot of bad reputations from people that I don't even think ever really saw the movie. But, just a real quick thing. Project x is a much better movie than people give it credit for. It came out at a weird time.
Ryan Verrill:It was probably just slightly ahead of its time. If it came out five years later, it probably would have been much more appreciated. That movie is genuinely brilliant filmmaking.
Andy Nelson:I need to add that one to my list. That's one that I I saw the trailer. I was like, meh, I'll skip that one.
Ryan Verrill:But It is so much better. Your recommendation, I'll check it out. Yeah. Interesting. Good stuff.
Andy Nelson:Well, Ryan, this has been a fantastic conversation about, the world of found footage horror films. Thank you so much for joining me for all of this.
Ryan Verrill:Thank you. It's been an honor. I I love listening to the show, and it's, surreal to be here with you.
Andy Nelson:Well, tell people about, what you're up to, where they can find you. Give some plugs so people can track you down and subscribe to what you're publishing, all that good stuff.
Ryan Verrill:I thought we were pulling this to a close, but this is gonna be another half hour. Sorry. No. You are
Andy Nelson:a busy person. That's that's fair.
Ryan Verrill:I am, everywhere on social media under the name, The Disk Connected. And as the name implies, and I've said too many times during the show already, I am all about physical media. So films on discs still, Blu rays, four k's, that sort of thing. I work with companies all over the world to produce special features, to hire people to write on some of these films. I help do a lot of editing behind the scenes for, what is going to be on the discs.
Ryan Verrill:And as a part of that, it has exploded my life. I mean, I've got a very active YouTube channel where I try, historically, I used to post interviews once a week with somebody in the industry, but I've gotten so busy now it's once every couple months, it feels like. But the big thing is the most consistent aspect of my life is every single Thursday night at 09:30PM Eastern, I am live going over all of the English language physical media announcements that have happened in the last week. And some weeks that's 25, 30 titles, and other weeks it's literally a 15. We are gonna go through all of the details on all of them, and it's me and a guest that is from this industry or a podcaster or somebody from one of these labels to put these films out or a filmmaker themselves.
Ryan Verrill:And after we go through all the announcements and talk about the fun aspects of the physical media, we always wanna bring a background to film some way. So after that, we have a conversation on a director or an actor or a genre or a trope or our favorite physical media releases of the year to highlight some aspects of those that are great, something interesting so that people that are there for the physical media can love it, but also remember, we're really only focused on these because film is the heartbeat of what is going through all these. So Absolutely. I I truly appreciate doing that every single week, and it's a great time. Like I mentioned earlier, it's can be a long show.
Ryan Verrill:It's, at least two hours every week, but I've gone over six hours a couple times. Oh, look out. I put that out as a podcast, the next morning every single week. I also work with, some of these labels to put out podcasts to tell the stories behind the films they're releasing, how they found the films, how they restored them, the special features that are on there, lots of other stuff. You can check out all those shows at someone'sfavoriteproductions.com.
Ryan Verrill:And the last thing I'll bring up, I, in 2023 realized that it was the best time to get into print media and started a physical magazine about physical media and film. And so I have, something that I put out about ten, twelve times a year called the physical media advocate. I get writers from all over the world and me and my editor put together usually somewhere between 40 to 65 pages of a list of release dates for that month that we're working on for physical media, highlighting some of the best things that you may not have heard of this coming out, but also bringing out some classic Hollywood people to to talk about their their best releases on physical media or giving a 5,000 word deep dive into, like, the the film industry in Hong Kong in the nineties and how they exploded. We we've we've gone down some really incredible paths, and I I don't know how we've been able to put it together, but it's turned into this thing that is some idiot kid in Kansas City, Missouri is has this magazine on stands across The US in 10 or 12 different retail stores.
Ryan Verrill:There's a store in Canada that carries it. It's on Amazon all over the world. The Physical Media Advocate, check it out if you're into holding a hard copy release about film film or physical media.
Andy Nelson:That's awesome. I love that you're working so hard to promote all of that. It's exciting to see how that boutique industry is, is shaped or, you know, it continues to evolve right now. It's very cool. So and nice to
Ryan Verrill:see It's a weird world that a lot of people know nothing about. So I'm trying to share the information behind it.
Andy Nelson:Right. Exactly. Exactly. I love it. It's awesome.
Andy Nelson:Well, again, Ryan, thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here. It's been a lot of fun.
Ryan Verrill:Thank you.
Andy Nelson:And before we close, don't forget about our special bonus segment. For those of you who are members, we're gonna be taking a look at five more found footage horror films to further deepen our understanding of this groundbreaking movement. Lake Mungo, The Visit, Hell House LLC, Gonjum Haunted Asylum, and Host. If you're not yet a member but you wanna join us on this extended exploration, visit truestory.fm/join and find the next real family of film podcasts to access the exclusive content. Next month, we're actually kicking off a summer hiatus, but we're gonna be back with more conversations about genres, some subgenres, and film movements in the fall.
Andy Nelson:Until then. Thanks for joining us on CinemaScope, part of the True Story FM Entertainment Podcast Network, music by Orcus and the magnetic buzz. Find us and the entire Next Wheel family of film at truestory.fm/join. Follow us on social media at The Next Wheel, and please rate and review us if your podcast app allows. As we part ways, remember, your cinematic journey never ends.
Andy Nelson:Stay curious.