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In this episode we discuss the complex world of wellness influencers and why so many of us are drawn to their messages. From the allure of quick fixes to the promises of a healthier, more fulfilled life, we explore why people are so easily influenced by wellness trends. We also discuss how gaps in the medical care system can leave us vulnerable to misinformation, and the role these influencers play in filling that void. Join us as we unpack how to critically evaluate wellness advice, how to safeguard ourselves from falling into mindless consumerism, and the importance of questioning what truly works for our well-being.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Shrink Down?
Four lifelong friends, all clinical psychologists, unpack the latest in current events, pop culture and celebrity news through the lens of psychology.
Wilhelmina (00:00.992)
you
Vanessa (00:01.582)
Hello, welcome to The Shrinkdown. Today we're gonna be talking about the wellness influencer industry. And what brought this topic to the forefront today was the new Netflix series called Apple Cider Vinegar, which is about Australian influencer, Belle Gibson, who basically made up the fact that she, or made up this concept of her having brain cancer and how she treated it kind of through natural remedies.
And so she made this app that made tons of money. She wrote a book. And so this kind of brought this idea of how much are people influenced by wellness influencers. So we'll be getting into that. Before we do that, we are going to do our four minute fades. Who wants to start today?
Wilhelmina (00:43.438)
I'll jump in. So this weekend, my husband and I watched the fourth Bridget Jones movie, which just came out. Bridget Jones, Mad About the Boy. I had seen that they were coming out with another one and I was intrigued. One, I just have always loved that series. I think the four of us went and saw either the first or the second one in the theater together, like years ago in graduate school.
Vanessa (00:53.386)
I heard about that.
that they were coming out with another one and I was intrigued.
I think that's
Lauren (01:05.191)
gonna say.
Vanessa (01:05.337)
Either the first or the second one in the theater together. years ago. Probably. But I was intrigued because Leo Woodall, the cutie.
Lauren (01:08.155)
Sounds right. Yeah.
Teri (01:09.395)
Maybe. Sure.
Wilhelmina (01:11.906)
But I was intrigued because Leo Woodall, the cutie from, yes, White Lotus, one day, I mean, he is just a sweetheart, he was going to be in it playing one of her love interests. So I was like, my radar went up. And then I was shocked because it was coming out on Peacock just directly. And I was like, no, this is gonna have like horrific reviews. It's actually the highest rated, like,
Lauren (01:16.145)
love him. White Lotus.
Vanessa (01:18.778)
I mean, is just sweetheart. He was going to be in it playing one of her love interests. So I was like, my radar went up. And then I was shocked because it was coming out on Peacock just directly. And I was like.
Vanessa (01:35.492)
views it's actually the highest rated like Bridget Jones so far. wow. It's still not.
Wilhelmina (01:39.99)
Bridget Jones so far. Now, it's still not as good as the first, but it is quite good. It felt a little bit like a, hmm, fourth one, yeah. So there's the first one, there's the second one, which was the stupidest one. And then the third one, she's like having a baby and that one has Patrick Dempsey in it. And then, yeah, and then this one. So this one,
Vanessa (01:44.844)
It is quite good. It felt a little bit like a fourth one. So there's a first one. There's a second, which is the stupidest one. And then the third one, she's like having a baby. And that one has Patrick Dempsey in it. And then this one. this one, basically, Darcy has died.
Lauren (01:47.933)
You said the fourth? You said the fourth? I must have missed one.
Lauren (02:00.502)
see, I must have missed that one.
Wilhelmina (02:10.443)
basically Darcy has died. Like that's the start of it. So she is alone raising two kids and kind of going through that grief process. So there's some very poignant scenes about grief. And then it's sort of her kind of dealing with that grief and sort of navigating motherhood. There's a lot of funny motherhood stuff with like the mom, her showing up of course disheveled and like the mom, the perfect mom. It's like, she's always like.
Vanessa (02:13.644)
start of it. So she is alone raising two kids and kind of going through that grief process. So there's some very poignant scenes about grief. And then it's sort of her kind of dealing with that grief and sort of navigating motherhood. There's a lot of funny motherhood stuff with like the her showing up of course disheveled and like the mom, the perfect mom. like she's always like, Hey,
Wilhelmina (02:38.667)
Hey, still in her PJs. And then she ends up having this little relationship with a younger man. And it's very cute. Tons of nods to the first one, little jokes. So if you were a big fan of the first one, you should definitely see this one. You don't have to have seen, you could have missed two and three. You could just have seen the first one and jump right into this one. It's fine. And then Chiwetel Ejiofor is also in it playing a teacher.
Vanessa (02:42.682)
She ends up having this little relationship with a younger man. It's very cute. Tons of nods to the first one. Little joke. So if you were a big fan of the first one, you should definitely see this one. You don't have to have seen it. You could have missed two and three. You could just have seen the first one and jump right into this one. It's fine. And then Chiwetel Ejiofor is also in it playing a teacher.
Wilhelmina (03:07.733)
and he's great. So it was just, it was very funny. You both, cry and you laugh. And it just felt like it had a little bit of, a little bit of everything. And I will say, I said to my husband while we were watching it, Leo Woodall, if he plays his cards right and doesn't like fuck things up for himself, he is gonna go far because he, he almost has like the charm of like,
Vanessa (03:07.906)
and he's great. So it was just very funny. You both cry and you laugh. And it just felt like it had a little bit of a little bit of everything. And I will say, I said to my husband while we were watching it, Leo would all.
If he plays his cards right and doesn't like fuck things up for himself, he is going to go far because he almost has like the charm of like Harrison Ford. I've seen him now in multiple things and he has chemistry with every one of them. That smile and those eyes. If you just look at a picture, I brought a picture.
Wilhelmina (03:36.898)
like Harrison Ford, I've seen him now in multiple things and he has chemistry with everyone. That smile and those eyes. If you just look at a picture, I brought a picture, someone brought a picture up and I was like, okay, you need to see him in person. Cause like when he's engaged in the scene, he's so good, so charming. And after seeing him in one day, which if you guys have not watched one day on Netflix.
Teri (03:40.311)
Hmm.
Vanessa (03:47.29)
I was like, okay, you need to see him in person because like when he's engaged in in the scene, he's so good, so charming and after seeing him in one day, which you guys have not watched one day on Netflix. No, no, no that yes, that's a movie. That's the movie version of the book one day and it's trash. This is the limited series that came out within the last year, year and a half.
Lauren (03:50.194)
Yeah.
Lauren (04:01.085)
Is that the Anne Hathaway one? Okay, you told me,
Wilhelmina (04:02.699)
Yes. No, no, no. Yes, that's a movie. That's the movie version of the book one day and it's trash. This is the limited series that came out within the last year, year and a half. It is amazing. That was one of my favorite books. I mean, I think it was like one of my top 10 books for a while and that movie was trash. And when I saw this show, it did the book justice.
Vanessa (04:18.176)
It is amazing. That was one of my favorite books. mean, I think it was like one of my top 10 books for a while. And that movie was trash. And when I saw this show, it did the book justice. And you will not love Leo Woodall after seeing this and his range of acting. mean, he just blew me out of the water and everyone who saw it.
Lauren (04:19.024)
Okay, nope, okay.
Wilhelmina (04:28.981)
And you will not love Leo Woodall after seeing this and his range of acting. mean, he he would just blew me out of the water and everyone who saw it. You will cry like you've never cried before, though. Just anyone that I told to see it and then didn't know that it was going to go that direction was like, what what happened? I cried so much. One day. One day. Sorry.
Vanessa (04:38.38)
you will cry like you've never cried before. Just anyone that I told to see it and then didn't know that it was going to go that direction was like, what happened? I cried so much. One day.
Lauren (04:49.243)
Wait, Bridget Jones or One Day? okay.
Teri (04:53.42)
I know. I was like, are we talking about Bridget Jones?
Wilhelmina (04:56.255)
One day, you'll cry with both, but you'll really cry with one day. So yes, multiple yes. I am reckoned, that is my fave for today. Can we put that down? Leo Woodall is my fave. Like that is my fave for today. Terry, you saw him in White Lotus too.
Lauren (04:57.341)
You're giving us multiple recommendations. So essentially you're recommending Leo Woodall.
Vanessa (04:59.226)
So, hopefully we'll record it. Hopefully, yeah. So essentially you're recommending Leo Woodhouse. I don't know. a picture of Can we put that down for you? Sure. Whatever you like. Terry, you saw him in White Lotus 2. Oh, yep. He's really good. Really good. Really, really good. Like I first was like, who's that guy? And then he has a sort of sleepy, yes, rung-ish. Yep.
Teri (05:00.523)
Yes.
Teri (05:04.791)
Okay. Yeah.
Lauren (05:07.005)
I think we can, yes.
Teri (05:14.879)
yep, he's really good. He's really, really good. then he has a sort of sleepy, drunkish look to him, which, yeah, which took me a minute. But he's got yeah, he's got a lot of charm.
Lauren (05:15.037)
I did too, yeah, he's great, he's excellent, yeah, he's excellent. Yeah, he's really good.
Wilhelmina (05:16.469)
Really good. Like I first was like, who's that guy? And then.
Wilhelmina (05:25.121)
Yes. Yes. He does.
Lauren (05:26.621)
His eyes are never fully open.
Vanessa (05:29.914)
Yeah, which took me a minute, but he's got a lot of charm. Yeah, I was intrigued by him in White Lotus, and then when I saw one day, that was it. And then this one was also quite good. And then he's in an Apple TV show called Prime Target or something. I've not watched that one. That's one of the new shows. So yes, there we go. Terry, what about you?
Wilhelmina (05:31.725)
Good luck!
Yeah, I was intrigued by him in White Lotus. And then when I saw one day, that was it. And then this one was also quite good. And then he's in an Apple TV show called Prime Target or something. I've not watched that one. That's one of their new shows. So yes, there we go. OK, Terry, what about you?
Lauren (05:50.404)
Okay.
Very cool.
Teri (05:56.503)
So mine is something I touched on in a previous one, the sheet pancakes, pancake sheets that you can cut into squares. So a friend of mine a year or two ago gave me the recipe and then I found one online and I've sort of modified it and I've tried a couple different versions. So I use the Kodiak pancake mix that you can get almost anywhere and there's a couple different flavors but I usually use the regular one. And I started off making a sheet of it so I mix it with
Vanessa (05:56.922)
So mine is something I touched on in a previous one, the sheet pancakes, pancake sheets. Oh yes. a friend of mine a year or two ago gave me the recipe and then I found one online and I sort of modified it and I tried a couple different versions. So I used the Kodiak pancake mix that you can get almost anywhere and there's a couple different flavors, but I usually use the regular one. And I started off making a sheet of it. So I mix it with almond milk, vanilla,
Wilhelmina (06:02.283)
Mmm, yes!
Lauren (06:02.577)
Yes!
Teri (06:25.407)
almond milk, vanilla, eggs to add in more protein and bake it in the oven at 350 for while I can upload the recipe. And they were thicker, but it's really hard to make sure the middle is cooked all the way through. So then I've also done versions where I've used a donut pan and made them donut shaped or muffins. And then just this morning I made a sheet for the week and I made it thinner and bigger. So it cooked really evenly. And now I am at 425, like a different temperature. So I'm sort of messing around with it.
Vanessa (06:26.876)
Mm.
Lauren (06:38.858)
yeah.
Lauren (06:42.61)
dunno.
Wilhelmina (06:43.053)
Hmm.
Teri (06:56.239)
Super easy go-to breakfast the kids can feed themselves because once it's cooled, I cut them into squares, put them in Tupperware, and then the kids can just heat them up like 30 seconds in the microwave. Protein, they just throw some fruit on the side. I actually had a friend who broke her ankle yesterday, slipped on ice, and she's got three kids and works full-time. And I dropped out, I took half of the batch today, cut it up and dropped it on her front porch. Because I'm like, here's some easy breakfast for the week.
Vanessa (06:56.34)
super easy go-to breakfast the kids can feed themselves because once it's cooled I cut them into squares put them in Tupperware and then the kids can just heat them up like 30 seconds in the microwave protein they just throw some fruit on the side actually had a friend who broke her ankle yesterday slipped on ice my gosh three kids and works full time and I dropped the I took half of the batch today
Lauren (07:07.773)
Great idea.
Lauren (07:14.055)
I know.
Wilhelmina (07:19.638)
Nice.
Lauren (07:20.509)
That's really sweet. Yeah.
Vanessa (07:20.69)
Teri (07:23.871)
really like I don't do it every single week because the kids start to get sick of it. But maybe every two weeks or so I'll do it. it's well, I know when I also sprinkle in sprinkles and chocolate chips. My friend does blueberries who gave me the recipe, but I the chocolate chips and sprinkles make it more appealing for the chill for the kitty. Yes.
Lauren (07:27.484)
Yeah.
Lauren (07:33.415)
I love that.
Wilhelmina (07:38.754)
Yeah, kid approved. And I can actually say it is, Terry, you've shared this recipe with me and I've used it multiple times. I think I always did use a bigger pan. So it was always thinner, that it is the kids love it. I will say the chocolate chip Kodiak mix, which I think I tried one time, cause I also tried different brands. That one has too many chocolate chips in it. Yeah, that's a better call. Yep.
Lauren (07:39.088)
more fun.
Vanessa (07:50.991)
It is, kids love it. I will say the chocolate chip Kodiak mix, which I think I tried one time because I also tried different brands. That one has too many chocolate chips in it. I do my own. that's a better call. Because the kids are even like, this is like a little too much. It's like, god, the kids are saying too much. my gosh. Lauren, what are you sharing today?
Teri (08:01.323)
Yeah, do my own. just, I do. Yeah, I sprinkle in my own. Yeah.
Lauren (08:01.784)
yeah.
Wilhelmina (08:05.261)
Because the kids are even like, this is like a little too much. And I was like, God, when the kids are saying it's too much chocolate chips, then it's really too many chocolate chips.
Lauren (08:08.157)
Right, Hard to imagine.
Teri (08:10.902)
then it's too much. Yeah.
Lauren (08:16.573)
So I was just thinking I wish I would have brought it but that's okay I'll send the link. Do you guys know the BrainQuest cards? So the reason I've had these forever but what's really funny is they're now just appropriate for my kiddos. So BrainQuest cards are trivia cards that are set up it's like a deck it's just like a deck of cards but they're on a little fastener so they're really easy to throw in your purse.
Vanessa (08:21.922)
No.
Teri (08:24.843)
Yes!
Wilhelmina (08:24.865)
Yes, yes.
Lauren (08:44.283)
I got them years ago when I had first started private practice and I felt like I needed a way to talk to kids at the beginning of a relationship. I don't feel that way anymore. But you know, like when we were all starting out, you felt like you needed to have a little bit more structure to kind of like meeting the kids. Anyway, so I had gotten them at different levels with the lowest level being ages nine to 11 or something like that, which is exactly where my kids are at right now.
Vanessa (08:57.027)
You're
Teri (09:02.359)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (09:08.877)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (09:12.141)
And then I have some older age ones and I grabbed them the other night when we went out to dinner and we sat for the entire dinner. Nobody looked at asked, well, they don't have phones. Nobody asked for a phone. Right? Exactly. Nobody asked for a phone. My husband and I weren't on our phones. We sat and did these trivia questions and there's math, geography, US history. So
Teri (09:24.119)
Can I play a game on your phone?
Vanessa (09:24.453)
Can I play a game on your phone?
Wilhelmina (09:26.081)
Yeah. Can I have the iPad? I'm bored.
Lauren (09:36.347)
depending on the kid's interests, like my son Sam can do math in his head. So he was asking for all the math questions, whereas Jack like loves geography and US history. And so he was asking for those and they're right at their level. They're literally some of the things we've just recently studied for tests with them. So they were having so much fun. They asked to play it again yesterday when we were just like sitting at home. So it reminded me of what a good idea it is to throw for parents or grandparents to throw in a purse or a car. And they have
Wilhelmina (09:41.129)
that's amazing.
Vanessa (09:41.978)
Whereas Jack loves geography and US history.
Vanessa (09:52.41)
So were having so much fun, asked to play the gun yesterday when we were just like sitting at home. So it reminded me of what a good idea it is to...
Vanessa (10:05.274)
it has all ages, all the different levels, and it's all different subjects within the little packet, which is really great, because have multiple kids. And it can hit all areas. then for any that cells particularly ran up the top, I'd say it's dead. I think it's dead. And it's not as special as that.
Lauren (10:05.561)
all ages, all different grade levels, and it's all different subjects within the little packet, which makes it just really nice if you have multiple kids, it can kind of hit all areas. And then for any that felt particularly random or tough, I just gave them to dad. Like my husband would get a question, I'd be like, this question is for dad. So we had a lot of fun. And it just reminded me that they existed. So I wanted to share that because it was a really nice tech free dinner that we shared.
Wilhelmina (10:06.743)
They do, yeah.
Teri (10:35.073)
We have something called Quick Chat Cards. They're like this big. They came in one of the boys stockings and we were at a restaurant just last night for dinner and that's what we did. And it's asked little questions like what's your favorite position to sleep in? What's your ideal temperature if it was sunny outside? And everybody goes around it. So similar to that, it's a good way to spend dinner.
Wilhelmina (10:35.223)
That's so nice.
Vanessa (10:35.404)
Nice.
Lauren (10:39.334)
Yeah!
Lauren (10:44.294)
Yeah.
Lauren (10:48.123)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So we have the deck from John Deloney, questions for humans, I think is what his ones are called. And that's great, but it's just like a deck of cards so you can go through them pretty quickly. So we took them on vacation last year with us and so we've already cycled through them, but they are, they're things like, if you could be an animal, what would you be? So they're just like fun little topic ones. But these were really nice because they really hit, it was like a little trivial pursuit or jeopardy for kids.
Wilhelmina (11:01.24)
I like that.
Vanessa (11:02.124)
Yeah.
That's cute.
Lauren (11:23.671)
and they're right at that right age. So Vanessa, what about you?
Vanessa (11:27.898)
I'm gonna share an eye cream that I've been using for a while now because I always like to use something for a bit before sharing. I know that's kind of how we all kind of do that. So this is the brand IT. I don't know if you guys use anything by them, but yeah. So I use a couple things from them. I really love their foundation because it's got like SPF 40 or 50. And I use their under eye concealer. So this is like a newer one that I hadn't tried before, but it's their Bye Bye Under Eye Eye Cream.
Teri (11:40.897)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Lauren (11:46.695)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (11:55.938)
And so it helps to like smooth and brighten Andy puff. But why one of the reasons why I really like this is because it has this blue tint. And so when you put it on, it automatically makes the dark circles like go away. Yes. So like, yeah. So like I love anything that has like an immediate like, you know, difference. And so you put it on and it's it already makes the dark circles look lighter without even doing anything else. But it's also like really moisturizing. So
Wilhelmina (12:03.565)
Mmm.
Lauren (12:03.794)
Teri (12:04.823)
Hmm.
Wilhelmina (12:07.969)
Ooh.
Lauren (12:09.277)
takes out the redness, yeah, or the coloring.
Wilhelmina (12:10.454)
Nice.
Lauren (12:15.1)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (12:22.621)
Nice.
Vanessa (12:25.218)
I really liked it. I had been using one of their other eye creams, which I really liked, but this one is even better because it has that blue tint to it, which they market it. They say the blue tint helps take away. So this is really good too if you're doing a no makeup day or you just want to do something that's going to cover it up and moisturize. So I highly recommend. Bye bye, under eye, eye cream. All right. All right, so let's get into today's topic. So we all have watched the first
Lauren (12:45.767)
Awesome.
Wilhelmina (12:46.797)
I love that.
Teri (12:48.033)
Cool.
Vanessa (12:54.714)
episode at least of this new Netflix series, Apple Cider Vinegar. And then Lauren shared a really nice review of this series. was called Apple Cider Vinegar is the Wellness Wake Up Call We All Need and it was written by Lauren Blue. And she really brought up some really nice, you know, ideas, topics from this series. So obviously one of the things from the series is this person made up this illness and basically to
Lauren (12:56.113)
Yes.
Vanessa (13:24.342)
make money. I think there's also a part of it too, which we'll get into is the mental health aspect of it where, you know, she clearly also liked the attention and the sympathy she was receiving as well of being someone who had, you know, a serious illness and then was able to, you know, get better. And then we'll also just talk about the wellness industry in general and how we're all very either we've all personally experienced being influenced at some point, or we know people who have been influenced.
Lauren (13:35.773)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (13:54.035)
And so we'll talk, we'll get into that as well. So any thoughts, first thoughts about the first episode in this series?
Teri (14:01.825)
So I know we texted about this, but Scamanda is the podcast series that was wildly popular. And in fact, that is one that seems to have caught people who aren't podcast listeners that really caught their attention and sucked them in. And very similar story, pretending to have cancer, all the secondary gains associated with it, the primary gains, which is the financial ones, but then the secondary gains related to attention and sympathy and being treated.
Lauren (14:06.045)
Yep.
Wilhelmina (14:06.227)
Mm hmm. Yep.
Vanessa (14:07.29)
Yes.
Vanessa (14:15.482)
that really caught their attention and sucked them in. And very similar story, pretending to have cancer, all the secondary gains associated with it, the primary gain, which is the financial ones, but then the secondary gains related to attention and sympathy and being treated like your cancer patient. So it reminded me of that and it made me actually wonder a few things. It made me wonder one, how prevalent that might be. I don't think this is an N of two.
Lauren (14:29.852)
Yeah.
Teri (14:31.285)
like you're a cancer patient. So it reminded me of that and it made me actually wonder a few things. It made me wonder one, how prevalent that might be. I don't think this is an N of two. I don't think this is Bell, Gibson and Scamanda. I think it's probably much more prevalent than we would even realize. Just like I think serial killers are much more prevalent than we even think of. Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Wilhelmina (14:42.445)
Mm-hmm.
No, it is absolutely not.
Lauren (14:45.414)
No.
Vanessa (14:45.442)
I don't think this is Mel Gibson and Scamanda. think it's probably much more prevalent than we would even realize. Just like I think serial killers are much more prevalent than we think of. So do I, Carrie and I. More serial killer theories. And I think at same age, the secondary game, like I can think of Munchausen's Munchausen's by proxy. I had one patient on internship on my residency.
Lauren (14:52.763)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (14:56.183)
So do I, Terry and I have a theory. We love our serial killer theories.
Teri (15:00.311)
And I think in this day and age, the secondary gain, like I can think of Munchausen's and Munchausen's by proxy. I had one patient on internship on my residency, this is 17 years ago, where my supervisor was the primary person working with the family. So I just sort of observed when we did CL and did consults on the hemonk unit. And there is some significant gains even pre-social media.
Lauren (15:04.615)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (15:14.848)
years ago where my supervisor was the primary person working with the family so I just sort of observed and you know when we did CL did consults on the EMOC unit and there is some significant gains even pre-social media right which is when a lot of Munchausens and Munchausens by proxy cases come out but I think you combine that presentation along with the wellness industry and that is like a hybrid
Lauren (15:29.628)
Right?
Teri (15:29.983)
which is when a lot of Munchausens and Munchausens by proxy cases come out. But I think you combine that presentation along with the wellness industry, and that is like a hybrid in this perfect storm for certain individuals to capitalize on these particular situations.
Lauren (15:41.073)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (15:43.854)
storm for certain individuals to capitalize on these particular situations. Absolutely. who are really looking for hope and then I mean that's what makes it so like
Wilhelmina (15:50.733)
Yeah, people who are really looking for hope. And then, I mean, that's what makes it so like.
Lauren (15:56.1)
I know.
Wilhelmina (15:59.97)
I just get like so angry, but like these people who are just looking for an answer, looking for a solution, looking for hope, and they're like praying on these people. I mean, not necessarily, that's not their number one thing that they're going for. They're of course going for the money and for the attention, but like that ends up being what they're doing. just, ugh.
Vanessa (16:00.09)
I just get like so angry, like these people who are just looking for an answer, looking for a solution, looking for hope, and they're like praying on these people. mean, not necessarily, that's not their number one thing that they're going for. They're of course going for the money and for the attention, but like that ends up being what they're doing. It reminded me of just this idea of that old state of commercial press. Oh yeah. Yeah.
Lauren (16:20.271)
It reminded me of just this idea, gosh, remember that old Staples commercial pressing the easy button? Was it Staples? And it's like, I know it's much more complex when you think of a medical diagnosis like cancer. But to your point, Wilhelmina, this idea of hope, it just gave me a pit because I think we are so quick to want to press the easy button on so many things. And as devastating of a diagnosis as that is, there is not, there's no easy button.
Wilhelmina (16:26.699)
Yes, yes!
Wilhelmina (16:42.359)
Yes.
Lauren (16:49.479)
There's no, and I think these influencers offering this false hope when that's where people are so particularly vulnerable. And then if you add in the particular personality or psychology of some people that might be even more vulnerable to those kinds of easy buttons, it just gave me a pit watching it, thinking that to Terry's point, there are so many more.
Wilhelmina (16:49.559)
There's no easy button.
Wilhelmina (16:57.037)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (17:09.974)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (17:18.789)
of these people out there than we are even aware of. And the woman that Lauren that wrote the article was talking just on even a lower level of how she had been on the social media and all the mouth taping recommendations that are out there right now by wellness influencers. And it is like, I see them all the time and I don't know why I particularly, I don't follow any, but it is out there. And she went to her ENT for like a regular appointment and the ENT was like,
Vanessa (17:20.474)
and the woman that wrote the article was talking just on even a lower level of how she had been on social media and all the mouth taping recommendations that are out there right now by wellness influencers and it is, like I see them all the time and I don't know why, I think I have a problem but.
It is out there. And she went to her auntie for a regular appointment. The auntie was like, absolutely not. We'll stop doing this. This is so bad for you. We don't know what vulnerabilities you as an individual specifically have. she was sort of grown off by this because I think we need to stop.
Lauren (17:48.473)
Absolutely not. Like, please stop doing this. This is so bad for you. You don't know what vulnerabilities you, you as an individual specifically have. And, and she was sort of thrown off by this because, you know, I think I'm not going to speak for her, but I would feel the same way of like, I'm like intelligent and I follow, I only follow people that I really think I trust. And, and, and still you can be vulnerable to this kind of misinformation.
Wilhelmina (18:14.145)
Well, it's like that one scene of the other character. And I very much related to the doctors in this one where they were basically like, you have to amputate your arm. And she was like, no, no, no, I've done all of this research and all of the study. And there was one person who had a successful thing with mistletoe. And he's like, that's wrong. He was like, that is not a thing. And she's like, but I think it is. He's like, but it's not. And she's like, give me another option. And he was like, death.
Vanessa (18:14.318)
Well, it's like that one scene of the other character and I very much related to the doctors in this one where they were basically like, you have to amputate your arm. And she was like, no, no, no, I've done all of this research and all of the study. And there was one person who had a successful thing with mistletoe and he's like, that's wrong. He was like, that is not a thing. And she's like, but I think it is. He's like, but it's not. And she's like, give me another option. He was like, death.
Lauren (18:24.348)
Yeah.
Teri (18:30.305)
case study.
Lauren (18:42.972)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (18:43.051)
And she still was like, maybe I'll try something else. And I can't imagine how the doctors like that ENT like this, where they're like, please, we're not saying this is the only answer, but like, go with science, like go with like all the research out there. It must be so hard for them to see someone choose something that isn't based on any like research, science, anything.
Vanessa (18:43.212)
And she still was like, maybe I'll try something else. And I can't imagine how the doctors like that ENT like this, where they're like, please, we're not saying this is the only answer, but like, go with science. Go with like all the research out there. It must be so hard for them to see someone choose something that isn't based on any like.
Lauren (18:59.195)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (19:07.928)
research, science, anything. But I can see, like, you know, so just in case anyone hasn't watched the series. So in this documentary, they're talking about Belle Gibson, but they also introduce several other characters. And so the character that Wilhelmina is talking about is actually does have cancer. So she's been diagnosed with a form of cancer in one of her limbs. And so the treatment is to amputate. That's the best treatment, the best cure rate. And this young woman doesn't
Teri (19:14.039)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (19:25.18)
Yes.
Teri (19:25.687)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (19:36.098)
want to do that. She doesn't want to and we don't they haven't dived yet into it right but
Wilhelmina (19:38.977)
Yeah, she's a 22 year old. She's young, attractive, and she sort of is like, well, this would just be the end of.
Vanessa (19:45.144)
Right, right. And from personal experience, I've shared this on a previous episode, but my stepmom was diagnosed with a glioblastoma, which is really hard for me to, know, pill to swallow when I'm hearing that this woman pretended to have this very devastating cancer. But from my experience, I remember when they told her this was her diagnosis, there's no cure for glioblastoma.
Lauren (19:45.885)
Yeah.
Lauren (20:00.784)
I know.
Wilhelmina (20:01.492)
Absolutely.
Wilhelmina (20:13.965)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (20:14.338)
Yes, there are a couple people that have survived this well beyond the years expected, but that's not the norm. And I remember being in the doctor's office. And I remember my stepmom asking, well, have you ever had anyone who has survived? And I remember the doctor saying, well, I had this one patient who lived like 10 years or something like that. And I remember at
myself hearing that, to me that was no. The answer was no. But she did not interpret it that way. Hope. So for her, what she heard was, there's a chance that I'm going to survive. And that's not what the doctor said. So I can clearly understand somebody who has actually been diagnosed with cancer, who is just seeking a different answer than what the medical providers are offering.
Wilhelmina (20:44.769)
Yeah, enter your hope.
Lauren (20:45.18)
Yes.
Lauren (20:50.452)
That was what she heard.
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (21:01.526)
Absolutely.
Lauren (21:06.939)
Yeah.
Vanessa (21:10.618)
So, which is, you know, again, very different than this other person who made up this that they have this diagnosis, but I can see where that that, you know, desire comes from at such a higher level when somebody actually does have cancer and that's what they're faced with.
Lauren (21:16.519)
Yeah.
Lauren (21:27.495)
Well, and so you can understand then why even if a medical, let's say a symptom, because we all have symptoms, right? So it's not a devastating diagnosis like cancer, but a medical symptom and you have a really shiny, attractive, personable influencer speaking to you about that symptom that she or he also had and how easy, I mean, they make it sound, they put it in a really pretty package, how easy it is to treat this thing.
Wilhelmina (21:48.396)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (21:49.761)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (21:57.583)
You can see, of course, we expanded in this series to something as serious as cancer, but you can see just on the small level how quick we would be to want to say like, I'm listening to this person, despite the fact that they're not a medical expert, because it's attractive. It allows us to look for hope, the easy button, whatever it is to say, good, I can get rid of this symptom. I don't have to think about it anymore because
Vanessa (22:10.936)
Yeah, absolutely. Right.
Lauren (22:24.859)
she or he just did this one thing and now it's all gone. So I think it's just human nature that we would find that attractive, that language, that one person, right? That, and not pay attention to all the things that aren't being said.
Vanessa (22:41.178)
Right. And, you know, going on that, you're saying attractive. The other thing I noticed about Belle Gibson and Scamander, I think her name is Amanda Riley. They were both very attractive, very attractive young women, which I think 100 % played a role because if you.
Lauren (22:47.229)
Mm.
Yes.
Teri (22:49.739)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (22:51.681)
Very attractive.
Lauren (22:52.925)
Yep. Yep.
Teri (22:54.071)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (22:55.468)
engaging.
Lauren (22:57.457)
Yep, and put really pretty attractive pictures and backgrounds behind them and...
Teri (22:57.973)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (23:02.542)
Yes, yes, because if they hadn't been attractive younger women, I don't think that they would have had as many people influenced to be completely honest. I think that played a big role in it. What they were saying was attractive and these weren't attractive individuals and people are, you know, inclined to believe people who are look a certain way. mean,
Wilhelmina (23:23.639)
Yeah. And people who would come into contact with her were pulled in with her because she was able one-on-one and online to sort of pull someone in. But then there was nothing past that. Like she was able to sort of like spin something in the moment, but then wasn't able to like after that, it was like all empty. And it's just sort of like there are people out there that can talk it, can look at, can make you think that everything they're saying in that moment is real because they're
Vanessa (23:28.472)
able one-on-one and online to sort of pull someone in.
Vanessa (23:38.458)
been something in the moment but then wasn't able to like after that it was like all empty and it's sort of like there are people out there that can talk it can look at can can make you think that everything they're saying in that moment is real because they're you know they sound it sounds real they sound confident they're attractive like all of these things and we go oh yeah they know what they're talking about yeah and then you combine the hope
Wilhelmina (23:53.538)
You know, they sound, it sounds real. They sound confident. They're attractive, like all of these things. And we go, yeah. Yeah, they, they know what they're talking about. And then you combine the hope.
Lauren (24:03.335)
They add in a personal anecdote, right? They make it personal.
Vanessa (24:06.938)
they make it first at all. Well, I think we, maybe collectively, but most people, like the easy button Lauren, are looking if I could just find the right combination of interventions for myself and I will do my own research.
Wilhelmina (24:07.918)
Yes.
Teri (24:09.239)
Well, and I think we, we maybe collectively, but most people like the easy button, Lauren, are looking if I could just find the right combination of interventions for myself and I will do my own research. And it's never been easier than in this day and age to arm yourself with quote unquote research and people's ability to dissect and understand empirical research.
Wilhelmina (24:20.119)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (24:25.249)
Yes.
Vanessa (24:25.644)
And it's never been easier than in this day and age to arm yourself with quote unquote research. Because people's ability to dissect and understand empirical research, peer-reviewed studies, is not what it should be in general in our society. And now we have the internet. Like I can think of when I was in college, I did eight-day therapy with little kids of autism, little little kids, like two to four-year-olds.
Lauren (24:30.417)
The access.
Wilhelmina (24:32.449)
Yes.
Teri (24:39.255)
peer-reviewed studies is not what it should be in general in our society. And now we have the internet. Like I can think of when I was in college, I did ABA therapy with little kids with autism, little, little kids, like two to four year olds. And I remember one of the moms going to the library and coming back with her stack of books to do her own research. And that is what it used to entail is, and even then you still don't have access to everything. And now it is,
Lauren (24:44.669)
you
Lauren (24:50.941)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (24:55.548)
I remember one of the moms going to the library and coming back with her stacks of books to do her own research. And that is what it used to entail. And even then, you still don't have access to everything. And now it is, I can lay in my bed and Google. It's the combination of doing your own research with all of the influence and posts. how do you, we're so inundated with information. We're constantly having to.
Teri (25:09.149)
I can lay in my bed and use my phone. And it's a combination of doing your own research with all of the influence and posts. how do you, we're so inundated with information. We're constantly having to filter through what seems legit, what seems real. does that apply to me? I've been waking up at four o'clock every morning. Should I take more magnesium? Should I not? Should I restrict screens? And maybe what the wellness industry did, like going back to the 1980s,
Lauren (25:11.697)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (25:22.407)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (25:24.644)
seems real. Does that apply to me? I've been waking up at 4 o'clock every morning. Should I take more magnesium? Should I not? Should I restrict screens? And maybe what the wellness industry did, going back to the 1980s, was they sold everybody a bag of goods that you could achieve a perpetual state of health.
Wilhelmina (25:30.231)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Teri (25:36.981)
was they sold everybody a bag of goods that you could achieve a perpetual state of health, wellbeing, and contentment if you do the right things. And now where I think that has shifted to, you guys tell me if you agree or disagree, is everyone might have a very unique complex equation or set in order to achieve that perpetual state of contentment and wellbeing. So,
Wilhelmina (25:40.183)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (25:43.809)
Yep. If you did the right things.
Vanessa (25:43.812)
well-being and contentment if you do the right thing. And now where I think that has shifted to, you guys tell me if you agree or disagree, is everyone might have a very unique complex.
in order to achieve that perpetual state of contentment and well-being. So mine might resemble yours, but mine might be a different version. So mine might be this version of exercise, nutrition, supplements, routines, mouth taping, whatever. There might be lot of overlap if you're para-menopausal.
Teri (26:04.087)
Mine might resemble yours, but mine might be a different version. So mine might be this version of exercise, nutrition, supplements, routines, mouth taping, whatever, et cetera. But there might be lot of overlap if you're para-menopausal, et cetera. But. Mm hmm.
Lauren (26:11.184)
All
Wilhelmina (26:16.534)
You
Wilhelmina (26:20.557)
Yes, I was going to say, I'm like, how many of us here have done research on perimenopause? Like, let me just search it out. Let me do all the research online.
Vanessa (26:20.986)
Right. I was going say, I'm like, how many of us here have done research on the perimenopause? Like, let me just search it out. We do all the research online. And if we do this particular hybrid of things, then we will be a particular way. And I think it's probably, I think we've probably reached a pinnacle of it in a way, because it's information we're inundated with. Well, the article brought up, so I was going say, the article brought up a good
Lauren (26:21.158)
Right.
Lauren (26:24.625)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (26:25.973)
Right. Right. And if we do this particular hybrid of things, then we will be a particular way. And I think it's probably at a, I think we've probably reached a pinnacle of it in a way because of the information we're inundated with.
Vanessa (26:47.034)
a concept of, you know, why another reason why people do this. And it's because of the access to actual medical care. Like it's challenging. So I was saying earlier, you know, in July, I wanted to go to the doctor for some health stuff. And when I called to make an appointment, they're like, the doctor's next available is January. And I was like, okay, so I have to wait this long.
Lauren (26:56.562)
Yeah.
Teri (26:57.727)
it's true.
Lauren (27:08.807)
That's crazy.
Vanessa (27:12.95)
And sure, know from my insurance, I could do a telehealth appointment and I could get it same day, but there are certain things you can't do via telehealth. Telehealth, think is amazing. It has its place, but there's certain things you just can't do. And so, yeah, so for someone who is like, I'm trying to get in to see my doctor, I have to wait months. I'm going to resort to what I have access to and what you have access to is exactly what you said, Terry.
Lauren (27:21.521)
Right.
Right.
Vanessa (27:37.838)
what's on social media, what's Google, right? And so I think that plays a big role. remember, and I think this is, I don't know if you guys have had this experience, I feel like it got worse after COVID because I remember I didn't have a primary care provider after we moved back to Maryland. And so it was right before.
Teri (27:47.958)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (27:48.333)
Yeah. Yeah.
Vanessa (27:55.342)
COVID. And so after COVID happens, I am trying to call and find a doctor. And I'm literally they're like, we're not taking anyone try this office. And I had to call like five offices to find a primary care provider. And then I have to wait months, you know, between appointments. And so it's crazy. So I think that there's multiple reasons why we are, you know, leaning towards these influencers who are readily available with information, right? Because we have to wait so long to actually get in to see
Lauren (28:06.3)
and
Wilhelmina (28:09.655)
months.
Vanessa (28:24.974)
the real medical providers.
Teri (28:26.231)
And it might be worth a try while you're waiting for that appointment. It's so weird you say that. I had a friend just this morning at 11 a.m. text me and said, why are appointments at Rush, which is where I work part time, becoming so difficult to schedule? Like not seven to nine months out for a returning patient. Slightly annoying. Just this morning. But my husband works in health care management and there's a hybrid of reasons. Some of it is we are in the gray tsunami of boomers retiring.
Vanessa (28:29.623)
Exactly.
Vanessa (28:41.247)
I wonder why.
Wilhelmina (28:43.349)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.
Teri (28:53.555)
And there is not a flow of practitioners to replace them. And a lot of people, just like education, have left the healthcare field and left during COVID. I, why would you not? I I know. So I think part of it is there just isn't enough practitioners. There just isn't enough, which stinks because
Wilhelmina (28:53.708)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (29:01.921)
Yep.
Lauren (29:02.065)
Right.
Lauren (29:05.853)
back. Right.
Wilhelmina (29:06.189)
Mystery to me.
Vanessa (29:06.86)
I don't understand why would you not want to be in the medical field?
Wilhelmina (29:10.931)
or a teacher these days, my God.
Vanessa (29:17.186)
Enough. Yeah, no, that's exactly what I think. Yeah, there's just not enough. Yeah.
Teri (29:21.653)
the population continues to age and require there. mean, our health care system is on the brink of being completely overloaded with the age brackets versus how much staffing is available.
Wilhelmina (29:28.589)
I agree.
Vanessa (29:30.68)
the age brackets versus how much staffing is available. and Terry, going back to what you said about the reaching this perfection of health, it reminds me of therapy when you meet with someone for the first time and you discuss what brought them in and their goals. And how many times do you hear people say some version of, I just want to be happy.
Wilhelmina (29:36.024)
Well, and Terry, going back to what you said about the like reaching this like perfection of health, it reminds me of therapy when you meet with someone for the first time and you kind of discuss what brought them in and their goals. And how many times do you hear people say some version of, I just want to be happy. Like that's the goal. And that is when I have to sort of remind them that sort of
Lauren (29:58.045)
Mm, yeah.
Vanessa (29:58.52)
the goal. that is when I
Teri (29:59.518)
Mmm.
Vanessa (30:03.45)
that sort of happiness is not permanent. There's no like all feelings. I'm hearing them. That's it. And yet people think if I get enough sleep and if I meditate and if I process through all of my issues and my traumas and I take the right medication, I do the right things, that I will just be happy all of the time. And that's not right, of course. And I loved, I think it's actually
Wilhelmina (30:05.239)
happiness is not permanent. There's no like all feelings. Yeah, and and yet people think if I get enough sleep and if I meditate and if I process through all of my issues and my traumas and I take the right medication I do the right things that I will just be happy all of the time and that's not Right, of course and I loved I think this actually Terry I think this was on the
Lauren (30:08.103)
fleeting.
Teri (30:10.997)
Mm-hmm.
Lauren (30:24.859)
Right. and, and promote that.
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (30:33.378)
Yeah.
Wilhelmina (30:34.455)
podcast you recommended, the one with Lisa DeMore and Adam Grant, where she actually said, you know, mental health means having the right, the correct emotion, not correct, but like to the situation. So if you are diagnosed with cancer and you're sad, that is the appropriate emotion to the situation. If you're home with your kids all day and you're a little stressed because you're trying to
Teri (30:37.675)
Mm.
Teri (30:48.983)
Yeah.
Lauren (30:54.109)
create.
Teri (30:54.859)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (31:01.983)
work and navigate the kids and clean the house because the housekeepers come and you're stressed, guess what? That's sort of the appropriate feeling to the situation. And so when people are searching for perfect health, happiness all the time, they're never going to achieve it. But if they think they can, they're going to keep searching for ways to achieve it.
Vanessa (31:02.168)
work and navigate the kids and clean the house because the housekeeper's coming and you're stressed, guess what? That's sort of the appropriate feeling to the situation. And so when people are searching for perfect health, all the time, they're never gonna achieve it. But if they think they can, they're gonna keep searching for ways to achieve it. And when you see somebody, like you said, the influencers, a lot of these influencers are showing this glamorous
Lauren (31:25.341)
I think you're right on.
Vanessa (31:31.674)
kind of lifestyle, they're not showing you, I'm not saying everyone, because we all follow someone, some people who do show you the good, the bad, and the ugly, but there are plenty who don't. And so people are watching them and thinking, oh, that's how I should be, that's how I should feel. That's...
Teri (31:49.207)
That's a visual goal that is laid out right in front of us. That could be you. You could look like this. Your house could look like this. It's so curated. Do you guys think the pace that we're at with so many people posting and the influencing and the wellness suggestions and there's just so many suggestions, do you think this is the new norm? Do you think this pace? Yeah.
Vanessa (31:52.89)
get. Right.
Vanessa (31:59.48)
Yeah.
Vanessa (32:06.488)
in the wellness suggestions and there's just so many suggestions. Do you think this is the new norm?
Lauren (32:11.951)
No. I personally think the bubble is going to burst. It burst on me too. I mean, think we kind of talked about it a couple months ago in like a previous... Yeah, I don't even know what our discussion was about, but I was starting to buy the supplements that they're telling you to buy and whatever. And I was like...
Wilhelmina (32:12.404)
I hope not.
Vanessa (32:15.928)
Yeah, and I, it burst on me. I'm like, fuck it off. I was like, fuck it off. I'm done.
Wilhelmina (32:16.237)
I kinda hope so.
Teri (32:19.627)
same. Yes.
I'm done.
Wilhelmina (32:35.042)
Yes.
Lauren (32:37.061)
I went to my doctor for like my normal, you know, yearly checkup and she's like, why? She's like, you look good. Your blood work looks great. And I was like, I have no idea. I would say I and you guys probably feel the same way. I pride myself on having a certain level of media literacy, like being able to kind of get through the bullshit. And yet,
Vanessa (32:49.684)
Yeah. Yeah.
Teri (32:56.193)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (32:56.759)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (33:00.161)
I fell right into it because everybody else was doing it and we were all talking about it and it was on everybody's page, which of course they curate because they know your friends are looking at the same things. And so then it pops up on your page. And when you're, you know, in the same room with somebody and they're searching something or like we're on a text thread, you know, they know exactly what they're doing. But yes, I, the bubble burst for me a couple of months ago. And I actually just on a personal note have never felt better.
Because I just stopped listening to all this stuff and was like, what works for me? Like what actually works for me? And that's harder and slower. So I know, I get it. I get it, I get it, I get it. There are plenty of times in the morning where I just feel like pressing the easy button. But it's more purposeful, more fruitful to take that step back. But I think, listen, we're all super vulnerable and there's different factors that would put
Teri (33:27.147)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (33:27.405)
Hmm.
Teri (33:31.957)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (33:32.098)
Right.
Wilhelmina (33:37.143)
Yes. Yes.
Teri (33:37.377)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lauren (33:57.516)
an influencer and an influencee in those vulnerable positions, which we can kind of talk about, you know, I think not having any kind of support like these, like these two girls kind of came from nowhere and didn't have anybody to sort of like fact check, right? Like no family that was going to be like, that's not true. I know, I know.
Vanessa (34:03.25)
Yeah,
Teri (34:09.889)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (34:13.848)
Yeah, well, the one reached to her mom and her mom was like, yeah, why don't you, why don't we just, and I'm like, mom, step in.
Lauren (34:21.595)
So that piece is really interesting. I mean, think so I think there's so many factors that make us vulnerable to sharing information, like almost.
Vanessa (34:28.858)
sharing information, like almost that performative kind of vulnerability.
Teri (34:33.463)
Mmm.
Vanessa (34:36.462)
saying like, yeah, that's me, that fits me. I want that information. Well, and even like credible sources online, you know, I think of like Andrew Huberman, think of
Teri (34:39.915)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (34:40.461)
Well, and even like credible sources online, you know, I think of like Andrew Huberman, I think of why am I blanking the perimenopause doctor that we all, yeah. And these are, think, credible resources, right? If I look and follow what they say to do on a daily basis to be at optimal health, I could literally never do it. Like they're like,
Vanessa (34:50.264)
of like the perimenopause doctor that we call. Mary, Mary Clare. And these are, I think, credible resources, right? If I look and follow what they say to do on a daily basis to be at optimal health, I could literally never do it. It would be a full-time job. It'd be a full-time job. this much sleep, wake up, have this amount of protein, then go work out for an hour and a half to do this workout. Go Go outside for hour, yeah.
Teri (34:52.048)
Mary Claire. Yep.
Wilhelmina (35:10.669)
It'd a full-time job. Get this much sleep, wake up, have this amount of protein, then go work out for an hour and a half, do this workout. Go outside for an hour. Yeah, wait, first get your daylight. Don't drink coffee yet. No, then come back, then have your probiotic and then go to the gym, but don't do too much cardio. Just do this and then come back, then have this much protein. Then make sure you, I'm like, so where does jobs and kids factor into this?
Teri (35:11.691)
Yes.
It is.
No, go outside first.
Vanessa (35:19.834)
Wait, first get your daily life. Don't throw coffee yet. Then come back, then have your probiotic, and then go to the gym. Don't do too much cardio, just do this. And then come back and have this much protein. Then make sure you, I'm like, so where does job and kids do this? What do you do? Do you have some type of Yeah, that's why they can do that.
Teri (35:36.694)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (35:39.778)
Yes.
Vanessa (35:48.14)
Yes, Yeah.
Wilhelmina (35:49.675)
Yes. Yes, that's true.
Teri (35:52.225)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (36:05.237)
It is,
Vanessa (36:05.624)
Yeah. It's negative two here.
Wilhelmina (36:18.637)
It's five degrees here. Okay, let me just pop outside for a quick bit.
Teri (36:19.123)
I know. I know.
Teri (36:28.233)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (36:28.329)
yeah.
Wilhelmina (36:35.543)
Well, and I actually was also thinking about the algorithm. So my hair definitely in the last year has been thinning and I've been like, so I'm doing, you know, my own little searches, right? And then you would think I'm bald based on my Instagram feed. I have everything. Every ad is a different serum, a different pill I can take, a shampoo I can take, a hair product that will help. Like every single thing. It's like,
Vanessa (36:43.332)
So I'm doing, you
then you would think I'm bald. Every ad is a different serum, a different pill I can take, a shampoo I can take, a hair product that will help. Like every single thing. It's like inundated. And I actually just went to my dermatologist and he said, ignore everything that is online. He's like 99 % of it is crap. And he's like, I can.
Wilhelmina (37:04.489)
inundated and I actually just went to my dermatologist and he said, ignore everything that is online. He's like 99 % of it is crap. And he's like, I can, we can direct your issue to you and I can tell you what actually works. And I was felt so free, Lauren, to your point where I'm like, I can just let that go. I don't need to keep searching for the perfect serum shampoo product combo. I'll just go to my derm and he'll tell me.
Vanessa (37:16.602)
we can direct your issue to you and I can tell you what actually works. And I was felt so free, Lauren, to your point, where I'm like, oh, I can just let that go. I don't need to keep searching for the perfect serum shampoo product combo. I'll just go to my derm and they'll tell me what actually works. Well, think there's two different ways that you're influenced. One is like, you're like, I was fine. There was no issues. And I'm like, should I be doing this because these people are doing it?
Wilhelmina (37:34.145)
what actually works. Yeah.
Teri (37:35.583)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (37:38.262)
I
Vanessa (37:46.02)
But then there's, right, but then there's also when you have a symptom, right, you're like, you know, like this actually hurts or my hair is thinning, like it actually is. And then you're looking for, you're actually searching for a way to fix something. So I think you can kind of fall into these two different camps of am I missing out on something that I should be doing? Cause I feel fine. And versus I have this thing that I am experiencing and I want an answer to it. And how do I resolve that? You know, like I was saying earlier, I was trying to, you know,
Wilhelmina (37:49.399)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Teri (38:04.695)
.
Vanessa (38:15.374)
do some, you know, I was trying to get into the doctor and I had seven months where I was like, okay, well, what am I going to do? you know, Terry, you said like, you're to try these things while you're waiting. And that's exactly what I did. I'm like, well, let me try some supplements and see if that helps, you know.
Teri (38:23.945)
Right.
Well, and here's the other thing I think we all need to do because I can think about a very personal example where I did my own research and it was helpful and that then reinforced my future behavior. So very quickly, my oldest when he was about two and we right before we started potty training started holding his poop. This was a huge thing. And my pediatrician at the time was like, Miralax, just do cat full of Miralax every morning. I was like,
Vanessa (38:37.075)
and that then reinforced my future behavior. Yeah.
Wilhelmina (38:39.255)
Yes.
Teri (38:55.785)
Okay, sure. I'm a first time parent. It's my oldest whatever. And we did that for about a month or two. It wasn't really helping. And then I happened to go to a grand rounds where they talked, one of the psychiatrists touched on psychosis related in children, how they were related to Miralax. And I remember sitting terrified in this grand rounds going, my gosh, I'm giving my, because a lot of kids who are neurodivergent or have other difficulties also hold, right? And so,
Vanessa (39:06.488)
psychiatrist touched on psychosis related to children, how they were related to Miralax. And I remember sitting terrified as this ran around going, my gosh, it's a night.
Wilhelmina (39:23.117)
Mm-hmm.
Teri (39:24.019)
when they're older, like older elementary school age. And so there's a lot of kids on inpatient psych units that part of their protocol in their chart when they are inpatient and psych is Muralax. And so some people started to look at that saying like, that necessary? Blah, blah, blah. So like how much is behavioral? How much is physiological? So then I ended up down this wacky rabbit hole. I remember I approached this topic like it was my PhD dissertation. And I came up with this whole
Wilhelmina (39:50.221)
holding mirror legs, children.
Vanessa (39:50.906)
I
Teri (39:53.367)
Part of it was a behavioral protocol using a suppository. It was doing this poop smoothie. He got a chance to release on his own and when he didn't, we would do this. But part of that too was making sure his diet was really conducive to making sure it couldn't come out, et cetera. And the amount of time and effort that my husband and I and the home daycare lady that he would go to, the three of us really came together.
Vanessa (40:10.07)
And I, the amount of time and effort that my husband and I and the home daycare lady, that he would go to, the three of us, really came together. And it was an incredibly effective plan to the point where my pediatrician asked me to type it out and give it to her so she could use it as a protocol for her patient.
Teri (40:18.039)
And it was a incredibly effective plan to the point where my pediatrician asked me to type it out and give it to her so she could use it as a protocol for her patients. And I sent it to her and I sent it to friends and she said to me, this is great because I feel bad just telling parents, Miralax all the time. She was, thank you so much. But she never, I mean, it took me hours of sitting down to do this and then implementing it. And it was very stressful. was tears and crying and freaking out from my two-year-old at the time, holding him down. And it was this whole thing.
Vanessa (40:26.97)
And I sent it to her and I sent it to friends and she said, this is great because I feel bad just telling parents to all the time. She was, thank you so much. But she never, I mean, it took me hours of sitting down to do this and it implemented it. And it was very stressful. was tears and crying and freaking out for my two year old at the time, holding him down. And it was this whole thing.
Teri (40:47.627)
But that is an instance where I did my own research and it worked. And I think we all need to balance, how many times do I do my own research and try things and it doesn't work to make sure it's balanced?
Vanessa (40:48.122)
But that is an instance where I did my own research and it didn't work. And I think we all need to balance. But how many times do I do my own research and I think that it doesn't work? Well, and here's what you just talked about though. Yes, the research part you did. Now you also know, you know how to do research because you have your doctor. You look up the right studies. You're not going off of. Sally Mae on TikTok.
Wilhelmina (40:59.149)
Well, and Terry, what you just talked about, though, yes, the research part you did. Now, you also know, you know how to do research because you have your doctorate. You look up the right studies. You're not going off of whatever. Yes, yes. So there's that. But two, you also
Teri (41:19.947)
Right. But I might've at the time if it was there, if it was available.
Wilhelmina (41:24.749)
You also did what Lauren just said. didn't act, the Miralex would have been the easy button, right? And you actually were like, actually, I think this is lifestyle, food, this, a little bit of like kind of how we approach this. was family. You actually took the, what I would say kind of harder route, but that's the route that worked because it wasn't just Miralex, Miralex.
Vanessa (41:28.302)
you didn't act that Miralax would have been the easy button, right? And you actually were like, actually, I think this is lifestyle, food, this little bit of like kind of how we approach this. was family. You actually took the, what I would say kind of harder route. That's the route that worked because it wasn't just Miralax, Miralax. And I would say about once a year, and my son is gonna be 10 next month.
Teri (41:32.129)
Yeah.
Teri (41:50.847)
And I would say about once a year, and my son is going to be 10 next month and has had zero issues since then, zero. And I've said to myself, wow, am I so glad we did all of that? Because I have worked with kids, you guys probably all have where you've taken their developmental histories. And the parents are like, well, we did this two year thing and then the Mero needs been taken. And you're like, my goodness, this kid's been holding for, and they've been on Miralux on its own.
Vanessa (41:55.738)
and has had zero issues since then, zero. And I said to myself, wow, am I so glad he did all of that because I have worked with kids, you guys probably all have where you've taken their developmental histories and the parents are like, well, we did this two year thing and then the marines have been taken and you're like, oh my goodness. For years, yeah. His body doesn't even know how to do this anymore naturally. That's natural, exactly.
Wilhelmina (42:04.598)
Yay!
Wilhelmina (42:19.019)
Yes, yes.
Teri (42:20.319)
Yes, naturally, exactly. And I had those those instances in the bed, which also was motivating and propelled me to try to figure this out. But I've always been very thankful because not gunwood. He's gone to sleepaway camp. He's done lots of things and has been totally fine.
Teri (42:43.159)
Mm.
Wilhelmina (42:43.33)
Yes.
Vanessa (42:43.502)
Yes.
Teri (42:50.965)
Yeah. Yep.
Vanessa (43:04.1)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (43:14.744)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (43:32.602)
All
Wilhelmina (43:40.139)
No, it's not.
Vanessa (43:40.184)
Yeah. do appreciate when influencers, and I feel like this is more with influencers who are not specifically wellness influencers. I actually don't know that I follow too many who are like truly a wellness influencer, is that when they are like, this is an ad, know, they're, you know, it's very clear that this is an ad. I really appreciate that. But I just wonder how many people just kind of roll over that and don't even notice that it is an ad. They don't pay attention to that piece.
Teri (43:40.468)
If only.
Wilhelmina (43:55.937)
Yes.
Wilhelmina (44:05.589)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (44:10.222)
And I almost got sucked in the other day. was watching this, I don't know, some reel of some woman who was clearly like, you know, goes to the gym a lot. And, you know, she's got one of those, here's the five things that I do. And then, you you click on it you're like, what does she do? You know? And, you know, one of them was this supplement. And I was like, what's that? And I go to Amazon, see how we all can get sucked into this. And it's there, you can buy it. But then I was like, what is this?
Wilhelmina (44:33.239)
Yep. Yep.
Vanessa (44:38.51)
So I start like actual doing research and I was like, I don't think I want like, this is crazy what this supplement is, but I could see how you could easily go click, click, click here it is in my cart. She said it worked, you know, and I had the wherewithal to say, cause I was trying to see like, what is, what is this actually, you know, on, you know, when it's available on Amazon doesn't actually tell you what it is. It's just like, we sell this and it was kind of wild because the side effects to it were pretty crazy and the uses for it are
Wilhelmina (44:48.045)
click click.
Teri (44:49.601)
Mm-hmm.
Vanessa (45:08.154)
There's a lot of things it's used for that are not specifically to what she was claiming it to be. And so I can see how people could just so easily get, you know, fall into the trap.
Wilhelmina (45:16.247)
Yep, I follow these five steps, get this supplement and I'm gonna look like her, I'm gonna be fit like her and this is gonna be great, this is gonna be life changing, yeah.
Vanessa (45:20.238)
Huh!
Yeah, all the protein. I was actually reading this article about protein and you know, this goes back to your your terry you were talking about the like bubble and so it's talking about how All of these companies have hopped onto the protein bandwagon and now you can get cheerios protein cheerios There's protein in everything well, you know, it's funny They had to create flavors because they couldn't get the original Cheerios with the added protein to taste like the original Cheerios You can only get it in flavors
Teri (45:39.35)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (45:39.58)
yeah, those sound tasty.
Teri (45:42.037)
Yeah.
Vanessa (45:53.156)
But they're adding? Right. Well, so I mean, they did, Right. But then it's like, then the quality of the protein is obviously not the same as a protein you're going to get from Whole Foods. But here we are trying to get people to buy these things because there's more protein in it. you know, I think, I think we're about, we're getting to the point where this is going to have to, you know, come back around.
Teri (45:54.751)
Yes, let's add more stuff.
Wilhelmina (46:25.697)
Yes.
Vanessa (46:27.192)
Absolutely.
Vanessa (46:36.152)
Yeah, this is like the extreme of what it could be like, you know, somebody watches this, they have cancer and they decide they're not going to go through, you know, with the advice of their medical experts and they're going to follow this person and, you know, put their lives in danger, which is, you know, the extreme, right, of where this can go. But you can, you know, there's lots of things that can happen in between too.
Teri (46:38.871)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (46:50.071)
Mm-hmm.
Wilhelmina (46:57.963)
Absolutely. Scary.
Vanessa (46:59.074)
Any more thoughts on today's topic?
Teri (47:03.339)
I was just gonna say it's worth a watch. I'm gonna keep watching too. I'm gonna keep watching too.
Vanessa (47:03.97)
Yes, it was so good. We're gonna keep, I'm definitely gonna keep watching. Yeah, that's a really good, it's really good. Yes, absolutely. All right, well, thank you for joining us today and please join us next time on The Shrinked Down.
Wilhelmina (47:04.523)
Yeah, absolutely.