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Creativity isn’t tidy—it’s risky, chaotic, and full of surprises. It’s full of breakthroughs and breakdowns, moments of flow and moments of doubt. Join Mishu Hilmy for unfiltered conversations with artists, filmmakers, musicians, and fearless makers who thrive in the unknown, embrace imperfection, and create at the edge of possibility.
This is your front row seat to the self-doubt, unexpected wins, and messy emotional work of making something real. But craft isn’t just about feeling—it’s about problem-solving, process, and the devotion behind mastery.
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Mishu Hilmy (00:03.244)
Welcome to Mischief in Mastery, where we embrace the ups, downs, and all around uncertainty of a creative life, and that steady, and sometimes not so steady journey toward expertise. Each episode we talk candidly with people I know, people I don't know, folks who produce, direct, write, act, do comedy, make art, make messes, and make meaning out of their lives. You will hear guests lay out how they work, what they're thinking about, where they get stuck, and why they snap out of their comfort zones and into big, bold, risky mo-
So, if you're hungry for honest insights, deep dives into process philosophies and practical tips, plus maybe a little mischief along the way, you're in the right place. For more, visit mischiefpod.com. Hey, it's me, Shu and welcome to Mischief and Mastery. Today we are talking with Dashauna Wright. Dashauna Wright is an award-winning filmmaker and founder of Chobby Productions. She is known for her fearless, innovative approach to independent filmmaking, brings
bold, dynamic stories and diverse voices to the screen. With years of experience producing acclaimed indie features and shorts, Dashauna thrives on turning ambitious visions into cinematic reality, which is currently developing with Space Cape Productions, the feature film Art of Alchemy by Colin Parker, which was featured as part of Chicago International Film Festival's Film Lab and Exchange Program. So it was a lovely conversation. We talked about what happens when the work stops.
feeling enjoyable and begins to be a drain. We talked about why she moved to LA, even though a lot of folks were moving back to Chicago amidst all the strikes and whatnot, and how she's trying to rebuild the life that isn't just film, film, film, film. So if that's something you're into, stick around. You can learn more about Dashauna by visiting her website, choppyproductions.com, as well as follow her on Instagram at producedbychoppy. I'll have all that info in the show notes. So without any more delay, here it is.
Me and Dishana, hope you enjoy.
Mishu Hilmy (02:47.662)
you
Dashawna Wright (02:54.996)
am feeling a little better. I was feeling bummed out, which is why I made such a tragic change and I moved to LA. Especially like now, is it the best time to move to LA? When I was moving everybody and I was like telling everybody like I moved into LA, everyone's like, I'm moving back to Chicago. And I'm like, did I make the right choice? But I think I just needed a change.
in my life because I felt that my creative spark was slowly dying here, which it sucks to say.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a kind of courageous move, right? Cause it's like you're, following. I imagine the impulse, the little voice within that's like, you know, you've been wanting to do this. like, yeah, just like jump, but it's still scary. Cause you know, a lot of your community is out here. So, then to reinforce like you're moving out there and your friends are like, we're timing. We're, we're done. We're coming back to Chicago.
So it feels like I have to start all the way over, honestly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How's that been going? Cause you said was it last year the move to LA?
Dashawna Wright (04:01.891)
No, on two months ago.
two months ago. cool. What like, what have you been doing to maybe like tap into either a community or getting sort of the filmmaking kind of connecting with the filmmaking scene? Cause it is such an industry town and there's so many gatekeepers and it's probably like maybe a little bit more overwhelming than here.
have been going to so many networking events and honestly, I was blanked out. I had one weekend where I didn't have anything to do and I was just so happy. was like, don't have anything. I don't have to meet anyone. And it just, it felt good. I think for me, I'm always trying to find the balance of not making a film my everything because when it was my everything, that's when I will always feel like.
Do I still, I will always question myself like, is this really the path that I want to walk down? know, because there was everything. So whenever I get a chance where I'm not doing things film related and I can just like hang out with a friend and we're not talking film, it feels good. And I had one weekend down there and it felt great.
Yeah, yeah. There's a, I was joking with my partner, like maybe a year ago, I'm like, oh man, I don't think I have any hobbies. Because it's just like, become sort of obsessed and you know, I think it does become problematic when it's like all consuming and you sort of lose yourself to whatever kind of this industry or creativity in the filmmaking is trying to like fill up.
Dashawna Wright (05:36.482)
Yeah. And I used to say my hobby was writing and I'm like that's still film, you know? So I'm just in a phase now where I'm trying to figure out what my hobbies are outside of a film lifestyle.
Yeah, yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (05:51.662)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they got a lot of sound baths in LA. Sound baths. This is kind of a passive hobby. So like you were feeling bummed in Chicago. Was that just sort of like X number of years doing this, this hustle and like, don't know, I'm not seeing the progress I want to see, or was it a different thing to kind of feel either bummed or burnt out that prompted the move?
Baby?
Dashawna Wright (06:14.478)
It's a combination of multiple things. know, the strike, things were slowing down. I had used to work on the TV shows like as an assistant. And then when I transitioned to just working full time as a filmmaker in 2022, that's when everything like blew up. Everything was happening and it was just a change. I was working on a lot of projects, low budget projects. you know, with low budget, it comes with a lot of stress and a lot of...
issues and problems. And I think because I wasn't able to be in control of some of these issues, it made me question myself a lot. If I was good enough, like if I was a good producer, if this is what I'm meant to do. And it just, it was like bad juju on me. And I just didn't even know if I want to do this anymore, you know, plus all the rejections because I do, I do develop like projects.
Reaching out to people, not getting a response or getting no, like that hurts. So it's like, you know.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard and it's disappointing. It's just like the sound of showbiz is no or being ghosted. then maybe like once or twice a year at best, you might get a couple of yeses. And it's just like a yes to like, hey, let's, let's, let's learn a little more on this. And then the hopes kind of build up. it's, yeah, it's tough. So yeah, you're clocking that and now you made a move. It sounds like a reset, but also are some of the kind of old patterns of like, I just gotta, it got to get back on the grind. Cause
hitting up a lot of networking events seems like if you're burning out, something seems a little bit, a little bit imbalanced there.
Dashawna Wright (07:54.408)
I'm definitely going back to my old ways of like getting the ground running and trying to like network and be at every event. I'm trying to figure out what are the events that that's more, I'm trying to be more strategic about events that I go to. is showing up at every event.
Yeah. Look, do you have like, I know when I go to sort of networking events, I like to have a goal or intention for the evening. Like tonight, you know, maybe I'll just get meet one person and that's enough. So like, do you find that you set goals or intentions when you go to different types of events?
No, I think it's because when I, used to struggle with speaking to people. So now like when we move into LA right now, it's just research. I'm like, I'm like, I'm just doing research. like, have no issue talking to people. So I don't really set a goal. Like when I leave here, this needs to happen. need to this person. I just talk to people for me. I think the major difference is being in LA.
Yeah, yeah.
Dashawna Wright (08:58.456)
I'm always trying to make genuine connections. Like I don't like the fluff, you know? And I think being in LA, it's like, no one's really interested in the genuine, like connections right away, you know? And I think that's the difference from being in Chicago to being in LA. So I don't really go with goals. I'm just going to research, just trying to get the lay of the land, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's more like I, my default is sometimes exhausted. So it's like, I don't want to talk to anyone. So I'll just like go in a corner or I'll just like meet. I'll see like the five faces. I know I just like hang out with them for the rest of the night. So like, I'm like, all right, I got to stretch, stretch out of my either comfort zone or my lazy zone. So like I, know for me, like setting the intentions helps, but yeah, if you're more like open and expansive and just like, you know, being mindful of like, yeah, I'm just like learning about the scene. I think it's interesting in LA having been there a bunch of times, like there's so many people that are in all these various.
positions within the industry that I think the distrust seems to run a little bit higher than say certain scenes in Chicago because it's like, yeah, there's theoretically more access to opportunities. So people are more leery of like, is D'Shawn just like rolling up and talking to me because yeah, they want to like get a lunch that will eventually lead to a meeting. it's unfortunate, but you know, everyone's going to do their own forms of like self preservation and filtering out. And it seems like you're just kind of like clocking that and going, all right, how do I just like be authentic and
curious and have zero asks and zero expectations.
And I think too, I as a producer, that is a struggle for me having to always ask people for things, especially when I have nothing to give. You know?
Mishu Hilmy (10:37.858)
Yeah, yeah.
That's such a struggle for you.
Right. Right. Well, I mean, it's an interesting position. So you have nothing to give. Um, I, more like maybe I imagine you really value like giving opportunities, because you don't necessarily have an infrastructure or X number of projects like rolling that you can give opportunities. So maybe that's what you mean by having nothing to give. Cause I think you're a pretty smart and you know, a talented person. So I'm sure you got a lot of feedback and opinions to give.
Yeah, but yeah, mean that like sometimes like I'll even meet other filmmakers and they're like, hey, can you help develop my project? Yeah. And I'm like, I can't I can't give you anything right now. Like there's nothing I can do to help you. Right. You know, so but yeah, I do think that I have a lot to give. You're right.
Yeah. also I think it's interesting because producing is such a large umbrella and it depends on any given sort of project where what kind of producing work needs to be done, whether it's like more logistical UPM stuff as you're rolling into production or more early work where you're developing, you're knocking on doors and you're setting up meetings with either other partnerships or financing. So like for you, which kind of area of producing do you find that you prefer, you enjoy, or you're just kind of mixing around with it all?
Dashawna Wright (11:54.222)
around with it all, but I really do enjoy the production. think because it comes easy to me. Like I, get that. you know, I can handle a production in my sleep. The hard part is the creative part, especially if you don't have a ton of contacts, like the people with the money who can green light projects. It makes it a little difficult. So then I do like, you know, of course I have some contacts. I reach out to people, but then I do a lot of code calling.
And that's when the rejection start rolling in, you know? So I think that's the tough part because people don't know me. So you don't know anyone, know someone, it's hard to trust their work ethic or what they can bring, you know?
It makes sense, right? Like it's a, it's an expensive industry. It's in high risk industry. So it's like, how do you establish credibility? And I think that's where it's like, there's ambition versus patience. And maybe that's also like, can bum someone out. like, I feel like I have a lot of skills to offer, but people don't know me or don't trust me. And when it comes to cold calls, do you have like a, an outline or a script that you consistently use or you know, what's your sort of approach when it comes to either cold email and your cold calling, like, you know, establishing connections or relationships.
So I do a ton of research on whoever the person is that I'm reaching out to. Like I'll look up their Instagram, see what they're into, read any articles or if they were part of podcast. And I try to use something that relates to the project and based on whatever they mentioned in those articles or podcasts. And I'll say like, there's this one guy I reached out to and he said that he loved working with up and coming directors.
and I am developing a project with a first-time director. So I'll reach out and I'll mention that. Like, I read this article and I know you mentioned like you love working with first-time directors. I'm actually working with a first-time director on this project, he's very talented. And so I just like let it go off like this. So it doesn't feel just like a straight up cold call email. It try to be relatable to them.
Mishu Hilmy (14:00.622)
Yeah, that makes sense. then like, cause I remember once someone gave like really good advice of like the ask should be proportionate to the relationship. So it's like, if you don't really know someone, then the ask is ideally like, do you have five minutes to, you know, chat on a zoom or something that's like proportionate to the relationship versus I still just cause I have a production company, I still get like maybe once a month an email from a stranger being like, do you have a million dollars? like, what is this email?
And I always I always respond and I'm like, how did you get my email and they always say I am DB. Yeah, I removed it from there. So I don't know.
Yeah, yeah. I was also like impressed with those like what you're speaking to. I think what most people don't realize is like the amount of homework producing takes, you know, is like doing the research, doing the homework and like, I think that's a sign of like respect and consideration for your colleagues in the industry versus like, I'm not going to Google them. I'm not going to look at their credits. I'm not going to read their most recent Hollywood Reporter article. I'm just going to send them like a DM or a message.
You know, imagine it's a fair amount of spreadsheets, but do you have something that works for you or that's like nurturing or, you know, present when it comes to doing the homework, doing the research? Like how do you enjoy what could be considered sort of a academic or administrative task?
I think some of the research come from, of course, watching movies. if I watch a movie, if I'm working on a film and I'm watching a cool horror film, I look at the credits and I see who's attached to the project. And then, you know, I have my own way of like my filing system, the way I keep things in order. But I think it's mostly just like watching movies and the research and who's behind those projects and production companies that's behind it.
Mishu Hilmy (15:45.612)
Yeah, yeah. It makes sense because you're trying to find something that's like a similar genre, aesthetic, budget or collaborator is and you're like, what's this production company? Who's this producing team? What can I learn more about them? Are they developing anything? Are they interested in it? Did you write in direct store run? like you do producing and also in your own filmmaking writing. like how, how do you blend or sort of stretch outside of producing and makes, you know, your own.
Bye.
Dashawna Wright (16:12.032)
Well, I bring on another producer to help. I take us as far as I can. And then I bring in another producer once we get into production. Sometimes it's not hard for me to hand it over because it's very hard to produce and direct at the same time. But leading the project is hard to like trust that someone else is going to do it. You know, so sometimes I have to be the one to push it. And so.
You know, haven't really, well, I haven't really, I haven't really found a producer that's like me. That's like my producer partner. So sometimes it's just friends that I'm like, Hey, can you, can you come on and just, everything is already set up. This is what it is. I just need you to like a measure it's something. But I guess I am looking for more producing partners or people that, that want to come on in an early development stages of projects.
You know.
Yeah, it's like the trust issue and the delegation issue. think it's really hard for something that's high risk, high cost, high energy. Like at the end of the day, no one is going to be as passionate about a project that's originating from you other than yourself. So it's like usually money is the big thing that can help someone have that passion. But yeah, I relate to that because it's like at the kickoff, you're probably the best person driving and getting your team. But then maybe as you're rolling into production,
can have some sort of administrative unit production managers getting there is tough. Yeah, it's, haven't figured out the answer to sometimes I just feel impatient of like, when will I find a X number of producing partners that can be maybe a stable relationship over the years? think maybe just maybe doing a lot of short films over a short period of time is probably the easiest way to like test and tease out like, we did a dozen short films over two years.
Mishu Hilmy (18:06.52)
This producer didn't gel with this producer. were like 50 50 and this one 80%. So maybe I'll, you know, maintain that relationship.
Yeah, that's what I typically do. Like, I think it's important to know, like we all know our friends and what stress and weaknesses they have. So if you are tapping into your own community, I think it's important to know those things and know what they're capable of doing. And so for me, I try to like, just, I don't want to ask someone to do too much because like on store run, I didn't pay anyone. So I'm like,
I don't want to have you do a bunch and it burn you out. And now you're like, I'm not even interested in producing anymore. So I'm like, I'll handle most of it and then you just take it away. And I mean, it worked for me, know? So that wasn't the hard part. I think the hardest part was the writing of the story because I'm not a writer. Well, I guess I can say I'm a writer. But like.
Traditionally, I didn't go to school, I didn't study writing, I studied producing in school. And so I started directing and writing on my own. And so the transition is a little different from producing, from what I'm used to doing and what I know. Just being a little bit more creative. I had to learn to tap into my creative side and not just be so logistical.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's like a, cause I do think producing is creative, but it's like problem solving, I think like logistical, you said, but the canvas is there and there's items on it. So as a producer, you're like, all right, I know what I'm looking at versus when you're not producing, when you're creating, you're generating from nothing. that there's problems to be solved, but you don't even know what the problems are yet, which I think adds like a bit of a different challenge. I don't want to say it's better, worse or harder.
Mishu Hilmy (20:01.698)
than say producing, there's a different expanse of creativity that makes the problems to be solved a little bit trickier, I'd say.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you you direct you're right,
Yeah, yeah, I write and direct and produce begrudgingly. I love editing, but mostly writing and directing for sure. Yeah, similar, similar problem of like, it's the choice. It's like a bunch of choices out of an infinite number of choices, which can become overwhelming because it's like the identity or even the head game of like, why am I choosing to say this at this moment? Do I have anything to say? Like what, why do I want to say this? I don't need to say this. Maybe I won't say this. And you're confronted with all these decisions of like,
to you even start with a blank canvas. I think that's where some of struggle can be of commitment to just commit to either the idea without judging the idea or your position or relation to the idea and just writing it. But I love writing. I've gosh, know, hundreds and thousands of pieces at this point, but it doesn't make the next one any easier though.
When you write, you ever think about, because I struggled with this when I first started writing, thinking I always think about like the budget, the schedule. I used to think about that in my, for the story. And I think it was primarily because I knew that I was spending it myself. Is there something that you as a writer, like, did you think about those things?
Mishu Hilmy (21:22.926)
Yeah, it's hard not to like a lot of producing experience. It's a hard habit to break because it's like, sometimes I'll write, you know, I'll be about to write a party scene and then I'm like, oh gosh, then I'm gonna have to cast actors or it's like an outdoor night scene. I'm be cold at night. I don't want to shoot outdoors. So I'll just make it an interior. So I'm aware of like the impulse to change what I'm writing to make it easier for production. But I think a better impulse is to just like get all that shit on the first draft and then
as you're revising or as you're budgeting out, trying to become creative and go, hey, how can I turn this from a party scene to maybe like a cafe scene or something that's like a little bit smaller? But yeah, it comes and goes. When I'm in the throes of it, like if I'm really present, I won't worry about it. But if I'm not connected to the material, I'll just be like, no, I'm not going to write this scene because I don't want to produce this scene.
Yeah. That's crazy.
But like what inspired sort of the impulse to go, okay, I've done a bit of producing these number of years. I'm going to write and direct this shorter, these shorts.
think I always wanted to direct. Even when I went to grad school for producing, I wanted to originally go for directing, but I wanted to learn the business side of the industry first. And so that's why I went the producing route. But I think there was always this need to express myself creatively.
Dashawna Wright (22:52.366)
I thought that I could do it with producing. I mean, I still can if I get projects that I'm a creative producer on. But a lot of the projects I get, people are just bringing me on for the production side of things. And so I just wanted to express myself creatively, you know.
You've had the impulse consistently, like, want to express myself, I want to direct, and then there's a part of you, maybe it's like the reasonable part that's like, oh, well, everyone always needs a producer. There's more opportunities to, you know, more cash, more money, more opportunities. So you sort of maybe quieted that impulse to do something practical, but it seems like the impulse is coming back of like, nah, I still got to express myself. So are you hoping to like shift the percentage, you know, over time to be like, I would love it if in 10 years, 95 % of what I do is.
directing or writing oriented and you five percent is on the development production side.
I think I'm still figuring that out because I have a production company and I still want to produce projects. I still, like one of the goals is to still help like emerging artists create projects. so, and that's primarily because there's so many talented people I come across and they just need that one opportunity.
They have great ideas, but they just need someone that's going to campaign their project. And so I want to be that for people, but I still like, if I can do half and half, that will be solid. I really do. Right now I enjoy doing music videos and I know people say a lot of crazy things about that whole music video world, but to be honest, I probably listen to music more than I watch movies. And so.
Dashawna Wright (24:37.086)
I want to blend the two. So I love doing music videos. If I can do that for right now and produce it, that will be solid and then jump over to like more of the narrative, I think.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's impressive. Like also music videos, they're MOS without sound, typically, unless they have like a scene or a sketch embedded in it. But yeah, maybe two or three days, you can have a lot of fun with production design. think there's a lot of creativity with like very conceptual set pieces that aren't necessarily narratively driven. So I think they're a great like place to express whether through directing or producing, you know, and they're short, they're usually just a few days.
But the budgets at the indie level can be negligible or very low. But I do think there's something nice about like, you're just, maybe the song is playing in the background on repeat while you're shooting, or maybe it's not even, but you're getting the footage versus like, all right, we need a boom op. We need a boom mic. We need the script supervisor.
And I think, like you said, that allows me to be as creative, like flex those creative muscles without having to follow a narrative.
What's your approach when it comes to say finding artists to pitch or produce their music videos? Especially now that you're like out in LA you're a fresh face like is that a similar homework thing of like all right? Let me see like the Los Angeles artists that I listen to and what's their following size and are they down to just get like a cold email like what's that been like for you?
Dashawna Wright (26:03.682)
done it, but it is her my six month plan, my six month goal plan. And I am going to show next week at one of my friends. She's an artist that I met in Chicago that just moved to LA. So I did text her and I was like, Hey, can you let me know more about like open mics or things in LA? Because I'll just go and meet them. I like to meet face to face. I have a gene connection because for me, I need to also be okay with working with you.
You know, lot of artists are difficult to work with. So I need to be okay, like you're a decent person to work with and that we can have like some sort of relationship. So I don't do the cold calling now. I did do that in the beginning and it was, I didn't have like really good interactions with folks. So I just try to like build a relationship with the artist, which I think is like, it's like.
filmmakers like what we do we build relationship with you work, you know, so yeah, but I do plan to go to some more shows like indie shows the artists, you know
Nice. Yeah. It's like, you know, musicians are artists and artists are idiosyncratic and they're vulnerable and some of them are, overthink. And I remember I was trying to do an initiative a couple of years ago of like, Hey, I'll give me a song that's two under three minutes and I'll, I'll produce or direct a music video for you. And it got a lot of reach out from different artists. lot of flaking out like
Because the relationship wasn't there and it was almost seemed like sort of transactional. And it's like, oh yeah, you're sort of an idiosyncratic artist who's like, either not good at texting or not good at emailing or following up, which is totally fine, or you're kind of dithering on a concept. the initiative didn't quite work out, but it was like a reminder of like, musicians are also mercurial artists and
Mishu Hilmy (28:02.318)
it maybe it's best to show a body of work and if they're into your body of work and they trust your sort of approach or vision, you're more likely to succeed than like, oh, you're going to do something for me? Sure. Yeah. And then they just like flake or they like do a 180 in the middle of your development.
Yeah, I'm very passionate about the music. Sometimes a lot of artists that I'll meet, they'll be indie and so because I like the song and I'm like, I have a great idea. I'll even like help put some money in just so I can like see it through, you know? And when I think back on it, a lot of the things I do, I'm always trying to feed that like little voice inside my head like when I was younger. And I remember
When I was like 14, 15, I used to rush home to watch like 106 and part to the top two music videos. Like I used to rush home from high school so I can watch the top two music videos. And it wasn't until much years later where I was like, oh, I think I was, I always had an interest in like music videos. And so I think I'm trying to be whatever that is for that little girl, you know?
That's great. That's great. I hope you definitely like get to direct some music videos soon. That's that'll be fun. And then for for sort of a store run, like what what was the concept and like what made you go, I'm going to commit to this idea. I'm going to write it was writing process. So if you just want to walk me through that experience, especially if you're a bit rusty, given like doing X number of years of producing.
Yeah, so that was an idea that came to me in like 2020. Obviously, it's still about like a teenage boy who goes on, he has to complete his chores and goes on the store run during the pandemic and like all the stores are closed. The idea came, I took a break, I took some time away from it and then I finished it. I want to say like 2023 is when I finished, finally finished the script.
Dashawna Wright (30:09.74)
I think when I had submitted it to some screenwriting competition, I was like a quarter, a semi-finalist or quarter-finalist. And I was like, maybe there is something here. So I kept writing at it. A lot of my writing friends, I would send them the script for feedback. They really were instrumental in helping me with the story and the formatting of the script.
And, and we, we shot in 2024, but then it took a very long time. We actually, we shot in 2023 and then it took like two years of the post-production process because it's a lot of VFX in the film and it was my first time doing a film with VFX and directing the project with VFX. Also there was no money in post-production. So it took a while.
But you know what I realized by the end of this? Timing is very important. I do think that this film is five years later after the pandemic and it's just now coming out. I do think, I think the project is good, but I do think it would have been able to get more opportunities or more festivals had the timing been right. It feels a little late, like the nostalgic piece now.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's tough when like, you know, especially the lower budget side where you're trying to be respectful of your collaborators. can't, you don't necessarily want to push your post-production team too hard, especially if they're doing other prioritized higher paying gigs. But yeah, it's like the nature, it's so difficult. Like the timing, like the zeitgeist, something that might've been really stick or poignant in site 2022, 2023 doesn't just register with the new cultural zeitgeist, new political zeitgeist and that stuff's.
Mishu Hilmy (32:08.494)
always perpetually forever out of your control. It seems like there might be a little voice in the back of your head being like, maybe if this was just a little bit earlier, we got a little bit more heat. And now it reads more of a nostalgia piece rather than something immediate of the time.
Yeah. Yeah. I think about that all the time. Like I'm grateful that the festivals that it has gotten into and the screening, but I often think about that. And a lot of it was, you know, the timing, the money, doing other projects, needing to take a break from this project while I worked on other ones, like, mentoring, you know. And so like, it just taught me a lesson. There is an idea that I really like and I want to push it.
I should just like work thoroughly until it gets done.
And for sort of like VFX pieces, you know, how did you collaborate with your cinematographer to like properly capture whether it's clean plates or prep, you know, for production versus how it's going to be edited? How is that experience of like shooting, producing VFX, you know, production wise for post-production?
A lot of meetings where I were able to like express what I needed and mostly for us, was a little difficult because we did have two different cinematographers. We shot for four days to like a split weekend and most of the VFX was in the decade weekend and that cinematographer.
Dashawna Wright (33:38.978)
did not have a lot of VFX experience. So we did have the editor come on board on those days. We did meet with the editor and the VFX artists because they were already on board at that time. And I did have some experience from like working on some of the TV shows and being a part of those VFX productions and meetings. So I kind of knew what to look out for. I had reached out to a VFX.
supervisor and I asked them questions. And so I relate that information. So I knew, I knew we had to get plates. That's one thing I knew. So I was prepared for that. but I think just having, having those conversations early and having a team early was helpful.
And then say from like being on sets or working on shows like either the Batman or Candyman, like what were some takeaways from those experiences that you have been able to translate either in, you know, your producing or even your sort of writing and directing.
So on Batman and Candyman, I was more in the office. I would say just like all the like logistical things, the football, the planning, the production, like handling that and knowing how to run an office. But there was a show I did for, so I was a directing, EP assistant, and that was heavy with VFA. And so that's where I got a lot of my experience with the VFA, learning how to pitch and how to pitch your ideas.
to a creative team. And even learning like directors, like how they work with cinematographers, how they work with the post team, like that was like very helpful for me. Just being on ground and seeing how like, I guess the professionals do.
Mishu Hilmy (35:25.494)
Was it more of a collaborative style thing or were there specific, specific things that you were seeing that you're like, I never saw this before. And that's how it's done. like, I'm curious what either a specific takeaway that you were able to like, either latch onto or, know, have as your tool.
Well, yeah, it was very collaborative. Like I remember one scene, I'm not, I'm not spoiling anything. This already aired, but there was like a shootout in one of the episodes and, and shootout that led to an explosion and the bullets, of course they, it wasn't a real bullets that was hidden. So they had to make like the metal kits on the cars like that. It was really hidden and there were so many people on the call for like that thing, the post team, the post production.
the director, the show runner, and they will all get their notes on how they feel it looked, how they feel like even the VFX can help the story. So like some people would give feedback like, we should make the explosion, the fire bigger or should come in sooner for the story purposes. And I thought that was helpful to know because I thought all those things were decided for filming.
And it made me realize like some of those creative decisions happen after too. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that's pretty cool. And then I think you mentioned the football. Is that sort of a jargon piece? What do mean by the football?
Dashawna Wright (36:52.466)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So it's basically like the daily production reports, I guess, like the call sheet, the camera reports, the sound reports, trying to think, I think the catering and like their reports, everything from that day goes into the football and then the football comes back to the production office at nighttime. And then we have to
Foul everything, take a picture, send it to the studios digitally and physically foul everything and then do it all over again the next day. And for the air, the football with the team is like the different shifts, right? So like the morning shift is the person that will come in in the morning and prepare. They'll like take everything from the previous day out. They'll do all the fouling. The night shift is the person that prepared the football for the next day.
which will have all the call sheets, all the maps, all any like specific department information that they need, like department heads, all of that will be in the football. And whoever like is the key PA will get that football in the morning and distribute those papers out and work out to everyone.
I know there's a attendance element, especially with unions and making sure everyone sign off, who needs to be on set, is there on set. if you're going over and over time or you're skipping a meal moment, those documents need to be there on set. do they also include a general, either per diem or daily receipts? Or is that a different process to be included of all the receipts that end up at the line producer level?
That's different process. So those don't go into football. That's, well, when you're on the, the studio level, we, they have like the accountants that there. like they go so totally different department. Yeah. But, but if something was to happen on jet and so they spent some money and they want to reimburse, they can put it in the football and it will file and we're.
Mishu Hilmy (38:50.774)
Right. And then directing wise, like were there things that you took to go when you're on a set, either directing or when you're in post-production that you've integrated as a director versus say as a producer?
Yeah, as a director, what are you saying from like when I worked on the shows? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think one of the feedbacks that I got from a director was he was like, you don't need to know everything about the camera. And I think that was something I struggled with. I was like, I don't feel like I'm a strong director if I don't know everything about the camera. And he was like, you don't need to. He was like, you literally can pull your phone out if you can't like.
verbally express what you're looking for in the shot, you can pull your phone out and just shoot it with your own phone and show it to the DP. And I was like, that makes sense. He was like, you don't need to know all the shots then. You don't, you know, you just need to know how to express what it is that you're trying to say. And I think that was something that I learned and I watched him do it and I was like, okay. I think it also looks like it gives the DP, let the DP like.
flex their creativity as well. Yeah. You know, so it feels collaborative.
Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a collaborative art form. could obscenely stupefyingly collaborative, is like, tour theory is kind of bonk and maybe arguably just like a marketing tactic. Like, yeah, you're working with a DP and if you get their opinion and work with them, yeah, you don't need to know everything about camera. It's like, it's like the weird, I don't want to call it imposter syndrome, but it's like the weird thing is maybe perfectionism that like, I'm not.
Mishu Hilmy (40:29.642)
It's because I don't know everything, which is like such a crazy barrier of entry.
Yeah, and that's not true. And sometimes I think not knowing, not being aware or informed can be beneficial. Yeah, yeah. You know, because you come with different perspectives.
Right. Cause it'd be like, you know, saying a painter isn't a painter cause I don't know the science behind why their pigments are, you know, up that color. Like that's not a painter's to know like why ochre is looking like that.
No, it's his job to express whatever it is he's trying to say in his speech. But I'm so glad you brought up the all-tier thing because I did, when I was in college, I did a research and we were learning about that. And I was like, I just don't believe in this. literally I was going back and forth with one of their stories and I was like, I just don't believe that this is the thing. You know, because I do think it is like collaborative and all the time it, that idea may have not even come from the director.
Yeah.
Mishu Hilmy (41:29.006)
Like I get it in that, the, the, a centered form of filmmaking process, the director can be the typical, the one of the last people to make the decision. So it's like, yeah, sure. We'll include, you know, we'll choose this dress over that dress or we'll keep that shot over that shot. But, you know, the wardrobe team is the one who pitched the dresses or whatever. So, also like, you know, sometimes the studio is the final cut, like they're making the final decision. So even then, like who, who's the decider? So yeah, it's, I think it's best to.
I do.
Mishu Hilmy (41:58.51)
let go of some of the hardcore patriarchal Aristotelian, like one man decided the story.
Everything. Yeah. Cause that's not true. Yeah. I've seen it happen with casting. director would have a choice. Like I really like this person. The studio's like, no, we want this person. You know, and then the director has to eat it. They have to go with the person that's the studio on. If it's not, because you do see the performance, there's a difference. Like then it would have just got some better acting.
Right. Yeah. Everything has its price and it's like expression. Cause like, think the, one of the jobs for directing is you're the ambassador for the audience. You're the ambassador for the story. it's like trusting the director to know like this and the casting team as well. It's like, this person will really contribute to the story. But then when you have a different decision maker who's not focused per se on the story or the expression, but like the risk reward of, well, if we have this person, they really demo well.
for this audience and might get us our money back. And that's kind of sort of like a, I don't call it a fear, fear-based decision, but it's like a speculative decision. You're speculating on what will make money versus what will really impact the story. But such, such as life, as soon as you get more collaborators and that includes financiers, everything, everything has its price.
Everything has its price and everybody has an opinion.
Mishu Hilmy (43:21.422)
Door Run is doing its festival run and are you developing other scripts, other nuggets? Do you have ideas floating around? Like I'm just curious like how you're juggling, know, moving to a new city, trying to make connections, trying to produce as well as trying to scratch that directing itch. So how's that been like, how have you been approaching that?
Yeah. So, we're taking it one day at a time. I follow like a schedule and so everything has its moment when it's time. nothing I, for me, I don't, I'm not going to rush and kill myself, you know, like when it's right, it's right. I, when I have meetings, I talk to people, I bring up the projects I'm working on and there's like some motion going from there. Great. But on my
I'm going to direct inside or write inside. just try to literally, I just try to spend like an hour a day writing. Nice. Which is very hard for me to like get into, but I try to spend like an hour a day writing and on a directing side. I don't put pressure on myself for that. It's like when I come up with something, I'll come up something. If I meet the right artists and I want to work with them, then it'll happen. But yeah, I just, don't put pressure on myself anymore with that. Yeah.
You know, but I do have a few projects that I'm like working on. One is a indie feature based in Chicago. And then another is a pilot that's also based in Chicago.
Nice. So I will kind of like challenges are coming up now that you're like, all right, I'm out in LA, but my partnerships, my collaborators, a lot of them are in Chicago. They're like, Hey yo, I got this idea. You want to, you want to jump on it? And you're like producing from afar, which is the beauty of technology and email and zoom and all that. like what, what's, uh, what's sort of like the pros and cons or the challenges of this distance.
Dashawna Wright (45:13.634)
I don't think the, I don't, I think there's a pro to me being in LA and speaking on a Chicago made production because I have the experience from Chicago. So I didn't speak about that. I think one of the times are that people don't know the Chicago creators. whenever you speak to someone and you're like, they're LA director. People automatically think like, they have all this experience. They're great.
But if I'm, if I just say like a Chicago, like they're based in Chicago, they don't think that they have like the resume nor the experience to really get the work done. I think that does a disservice to Chicago and it's. Which is why I want to champion like talent for Chicago. but yeah, that I think that that's like the most difficult thing.
I mean, it's geographic and it makes sense that there's sort of geographic biases as well, which is unfortunate of like, well, this is an industry town and people are getting their chops. But at the end of the day, production, production's production. it's like, if you got the resume, but still, like the resume doesn't matter. Heck, even your like sizzler reel or your body of work doesn't matter. I do think like the biggest thing is like, have you made people money?
That's the biggest thing. Yeah. And it was hard for me, someone that's trying to champion first time directors, right? Because they haven't put in, I guess, quote unquote, the work they can, they could be phenomenal directors and have done well in the festival world, but because they hadn't really, I guess, like put skin in the game and put money in the game. Yeah.
People aren't really willing to roll the dice. it's a lot of a lot. Honestly, a lot of me pitching on lot of projects I work on the directors. They're also the writers. So pitching the projects and they want to be involved or the writers are the actors and they want to be like the main actor. So it's a lot of pitching people that I guess the studio or people aren't aware
Mishu Hilmy (47:23.022)
It just gets harder and harder, you know, signal to noise ratio or even supply demand. like everyone, people are making incredible 22nd bits on TikTok and Instagram. I think they're generally more stylized and vibey and not necessarily narrative, but there's such an influx of image making across the world with all the new technology. So it's like just overwhelming the amount of stuff that's out there. And it's like, how do you, I think it goes back to relationship. how do you.
express that like this person has a vision or like their idea is worthy of attention and like for you to like advocate on that behalf. So I'm curious for like, because your production company is Chop Productions. Choppy. Choppy, Choppy Productions. So like for Choppy, like how, as the owner of that, like how do you go about determining which script or which project in its nation form you want to advocate for or sign on to?
Really it's just the script first. If I read the script and as I'm reading, I'm like imagining the story unfold and I'm like, you treat thorough and thorough. I like the characters, the setup, and I feel like there is an underlying message and it's entertaining because at the end of the day, it is a business. So I'm like, okay, I think I like this. And then I meet with the team or the writer, director, who's ever behind it.
We have a few chats and I'm like, okay, I think I can work with this person because it won't be easy. one project I did and I think I optioned that script in 2019 or 2020 and we didn't make that film until 2024. So like it takes time. Oh no, sorry. We made it in 2022. It didn't come out to 2024, but still it takes time, you know?
And I actually did in 2019, but I had the scripts in 2017. Oh, so it's just like, it's very important for me to like, I have to enjoy this story. And then I also have to have some type of relationship with the artists and really understand their vision. Because honestly, I can pitch some blue in the face, but if they can't convey to me what the vision is.
Dashawna Wright (49:40.174)
I can't convey to other people what the vision is. So if I can have a conversation and they really convey their idea and by the end I'm like, man, I didn't even think of that. Like, that's great. I'm like, oh my gosh, other people need to this person. They need to know how great this project is.
Yeah. then like proportion wise, is it the majority of you reaching out to artists that you know? I'm curious, like, what's the percentage of like a cold connection of like, I got this script or I'm a director in Chicago. I heard about your production company versus like you just chatting with a bud and they're like, yeah, I'm working on this thing. And you're like, can you send it over? Like, I'm curious what the kind of breakdown is of people you already have creative relationships with versus like people you don't know, but somehow you got their source material.
Yeah, so right now I am developing for two features, a series, a TV show and an animation show. And the two I met, one is a friend that was like, I have a script. I think you'll like it. Another one I met at a film festival and her and I chatted and we wasn't even supposed to.
We were chatting about a whole nother project and in that chat, I was telling her how I got my nickname Choffee, which is the brand that kick up me. And she was telling me like how she got hers and my nickname came from a puppet show. And she was telling me about hers. And this idea just like sprouted up like, my God, an animation show for kids. And so that's how that came about. And the other two, one I just randomly emailed me and just was like, Hey, I have this.
sending his pitch, his script. It took me about like a week and a half to like really read it because I do, even though I'm like, how did these people get my email? I do read everything that comes through. Even if I don't respond, I'll still read it. But I do try to respond for the most part because I know how it feels to be like left-handed and I'll respond and just say like, right now. I'm not the person for it but.
Dashawna Wright (51:48.096)
I read, I read the script and I liked the story. I liked his pitch deck, the way he presented everything. And he pretty much already had things going and I was like, okay, he already got the ball rolling. So like he's showing me that he's going to like go out and do it himself too. And so that made another one. Again, I met at a, at a film festival, the other project I met at a film festival and he was like, I would love for you to read my script.
the rating, licensing, and we've been working for a couple years trying to get it off the ground.
Yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah. I think, you know, fast snow is better than a ghost. So like, can empathize with folks. It depends on the tenor of the email and the ass. Sometimes I'll be like, nah, like you're getting a ghost, but it's nice to just be like, yeah, no thanks. Best wishes. Like, no thank you. Best wishes. Maybe I'll like skim through random scripts I get, but if it's good, maybe I'll read through it. Like, what's for you, at least recently, your favorite part of?
the sort of the filmmaking experience, whether you're approaching it from the producing side or the directing side, is there a point where you're like, I just love it when we're in pre-production or when we're in development or we're in post.
I would say in production, of course, because it's like it feels rewarding that all the work, all the nose, everything, like it's finally, you finally see all the whole work being put together. it's production because you build a family during that time too. And then the second reward is I guess when the film comes out and you can watch it.
Dashawna Wright (53:25.58)
You can watch it with a large audience and then they could appreciate the work that you and your team put together, you know, but yeah, production for sure. Because that's the most stressful part. It's not the development part. Even though the rejection sucks, the most stressful part is production. Yeah. Yeah.
I think, I think it's like filmmakers have a kinship to the restaurant industry. Cause I think it's sort of similar in that it's high pressure and it's like an assembly line. Like you got to get your dishes out to the floor and people got to eat. it's like, it's like also maybe akin to a team spur where when it's going well, it's like everyone on the team is, you know, playing, playing their role and it becomes like just really sync, synchronic and it's a beautiful thing. Yeah. It's, it's definitely like sometimes like a hot kitchen. Got to get all your shots, you know,
Yes. Yes. And I don't know. It's something about like producers and maybe myself and love the chaos of it. know? Right. So yeah. And like putting out little fire.
Yeah, and like given how uncertain the industry is and the world is, like how do you, how have you been staying motivated with your creative work?
trying to find a hobby outside of the creative work. I need something to make me miss it, you know? And make me appreciate it. But if I'm in it and I'm struggling the entire time, it doesn't make me appreciate or like love it. So I need something that distracts me from it where I'm like, I can't wait to go home and write this or, you know? So, you know. Totally. Finding a hobby is important.
Mishu Hilmy (55:06.816)
Yeah. I mean, it's about balance and getting space. think space is important. You know, we need, we need space from things we need to digest. need to like become intentional or remember why we love a thing. So it's like, yeah, get that, get that space. Cause yeah, I'm very against discipline versus like curiosity and like what can help, you know, foster curiosity. It's like, all right, yeah, working on a hobby unrelated and it's got me, it's got me missing. It's got me missing this. All right. Shana was an absolute delight getting to chat.
Thank you, thank you for having me on.
Mishu Hilmy (55:44.526)
Before sending you off with a little creative prompt, I just wanted to say thank you for listening to Mischief and Mastery. If you enjoyed this show, please rate it and leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Your support does mean a lot. Until next time, keep taking care of yourself, your lightness, curiosity, and sense of play. And now for a little Mischief motivation. Fun prompt time. Let's do just like a physical reset. Pick one small tiny.
non-career action that makes your town, your city, whether it's Chicago or Los Angeles or wherever you live, feel like it's your home, your city, your town. Go visit a cafe, go for a walk, get your damn library card, check out some gardens. I don't know, wander around, make some connections, some relationships to the place you live in and do it today. It's not about developing any sort of career inspiration, mostly just about
Belonging, feeling one with your community or your space. So get present with where you live, explore it, do all that and treat yourself. All right. Thank you for listening.