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I'm Brian Bashore, Professional walleye angler and owner of The Walleye Guys Guide service. I am here to reel you in with captivating stories, expert tips, and interviews with some of the biggest names in the fishing community. So, sit back, relax, and let the drag scream!
Brian Bashore (00:01.282)
Hey folks, welcome back to another episode of real talk fishing with no limits brought to by Seaguar high performance braids, seven reels created by St. Croix rods and Rufflin kennels clean cut station. The cleanest cutting board you will ever need. Hey today we're getting a little off schedule again, because we've got some breaking big news in the wildlife world. So if you haven't seen it out there, we're bringing it to you here.
Right now, ahead of typical scheduling for these podcasts, I got Kyle Carpenter from Ahead to Head Fishing. The Pro Walleye Circuit just announced their schedule, the rules, the whole format they plan on launching here for 2026 tournament series. And we're to sit down with Kyle and kind of break that down get the inside scoop. I got a lot of questions as I'm sure you do, and he will answer most of these. And like any new tournament, there's a lot of things that are kind of in progress or in processing.
In a sense to see how things unfold and where they'll be in the evolution of kind of creating one of these deals. So that's kind of where they're at. but it's going, looks like it's happening long as the numbers are good, but a lot of questions. Everybody wants to know big news. got, you know, it's, the year we have the NWT's got a good schedule out. We're now we got the, head to head pro walleye circuit out, which this is an open circuit. This isn't how head to head has done things in the past. This is just straight up. Just like basically any tournament, but he can get into.
Big payouts, big entries just kind of come together. And we got the aim next, which is, know, we're still waiting on some of that info to come out on where they're at. I'm sure this is going to make some things adjust as well, just because when you, when you get a lot of tournaments like this going and we're all kind of reaching for that pro level exposure, there's only so much time, you you can only fish so many places and you can't, certain things can overlap. And with the rules that the pro walleye circuit has in place, you got to have off limits and no information rules. So it's going to kind of.
limit you and restrict you sooner or later, guys are going to have to pick one or the other. Ultimately, we hope they all succeed and everybody's fishing all of these and that is good for the industry. But let's hear from the man, the tournament director himself of this right now, Kyle Carpenter with Head to Head Pro Walleye Circuit.
Brian Bashore (00:02.158)
Welcome back folks to another episode of real talk fishing with no limits. Today we are diving in deep with the hottest news in the walleye world. now we got Mr. Kyle Carpenter on here, tournament director with head to head fishing head to head is bringing back their pro walleye circuit. believe we're calling it this time around instead of the series. And we're just going to dive in with Kyle here and ask him a bunch of questions because I got a lot of them. I'm sure everybody out there listen to does and he's got the answers and if he doesn't.
This is the time to figure those out before the season kicks off. So, Kyle, how's it going over there today? We're getting some fall weather finally kicking in in your neighborhood.
Kyle (00:40.337)
Yeah, it's good, Brian. Thanks for having us on. It's been a little hectic couple, like 48 hours here, but that's good. Comes with the territory. Weather's great. Fishing has been awesome over here in Green Bay area. So I'm a smallmouth guy. So I've been chasing the Door County smallmouth for the last few weeks.
Brian Bashore (00:59.04)
Those are some fun ones to chase it. mean, it's finally kind of settled in. I think we got some cold temps and this fall fishing is really finally transpiring. Yeah, finally. Come November.
Kyle (01:07.241)
Finally, it went from. Yeah, it did the same thing last year to us too. You know, it's it went from summer to to winter. So yeah, we're excited. We're excited. Obviously, the reason we're here is to talk about head to head pro walleye circuit, not series this year. There's a just a funny story behind the name is I'm kind of a smartass at times and like to keep things light and PWS is in the past and.
Brian Bashore (01:13.122)
It did.
Brian Bashore (01:16.952)
Yep, that's a...
Kyle (01:37.001)
let's name it PwC ProWall-A circuit and have a fresh look going forward. So that was the simplicity of the change in the SQSC.
Brian Bashore (01:48.014)
And it is a circuit in a sense. I mean, you're going four different places or five, guess, right? It was a championship. it's, uh, and exactly when you're, when you're re reinventing or recreating or starting over new, that's exactly rebrand it with a new name. So I believe somewhere in the rules, there's a PWS in there. So you do right. Look, look for that.
Kyle (02:05.853)
Definitely.
Kyle (02:11.421)
Probably, Control-F did not find that one.
Brian Bashore (02:16.472)
That's what I asked. I'm like, I'm pretty sure we're going this way, but I'm sure that's just a, a real slight overlook. But one of the many things that us guys will deem you on and as we get picky and, but that's good. That means there people are reading the rules and they understand it. hopefully minimize, minimize the questions.
Kyle (02:30.845)
Yeah, that's that's what I want like come with the questions if you don't know ask if you can stump me awesome if not great that means I do my job so We I stare Man it's been a process right? Obviously PWS came and went in 2021 2022 Not what all of us necessarily wanted, but that's what happened. That's the decision we made with and we made and we went with it
Brian Bashore (02:42.35)
So how did we get to here?
Kyle (03:00.873)
We took a complete year off, no head to head at all. And then we brought back the leagues, the Bass League and the Walleye League, which I really enjoy. I really enjoyed that format. It's a local thing. That's the only negative to it. It was awesome to platform the anglers locally. you know, year one, we stuck to just like Winnebago. And then we branched out this last year to other lakes for both series and.
I really enjoyed that. It was a lot of fun. It got our feet back wet in running tournaments again, reestablishing just the live process of what we did. We've learned so much since the PWS on live in 2021. thought we knew it all and man, it's evolved and changed since then. So we talked about always wanting to come back with something in the Wallach side and something
Brian Bashore (03:34.27)
in reestablishing just the live process of what we did. We've so much since the PWM.
Kyle (03:58.249)
pro level, right? And I wasn't content with the way the PWS kind of went, went away. multiple reasons, you know, the anglers for one, the industry as a whole really didn't want it at the time. I mean, honest.
Brian Bashore (04:05.326)
The industry is a roller coaster, man. It's, know, it and Brian Keller, who is the man behind the scenes here definitely knows it. So.
Kyle (04:15.485)
Yeah. Yup.
Kyle (04:20.585)
Yeah, definitely. you know, the industry in 2021, 2022 to us really didn't feel like it was wanted. Like, you know, we struggled with certain things with sponsorships and yeah, we made some mistakes for sure with the way we went about it. And I think our focus was just wrong. Looking back on it now, it's easy to see some things and, you know, the focus changed from live, live, live, live, live. Everything needs to be live where
Bass Wally is completely different. So while I, it doesn't matter near as much to the anglers as it does on the bass world. So, as an industry separating them best while I, really doesn't seem to be that big of a, of a draw to have, to have that. Right. So we've cut that back, you know, changing our focus and we're going to have live. It's just going to be in a different way and campaign ship will be fully live stream. So that's basically how we.
Brian Bashore (05:07.758)
All right.
Brian Bashore (05:16.846)
Let's just hit on that live stuff for a second. Everybody, all the keyboard wizards want live. I mean, that's what you see it. They all want live, but like you said, the numbers, right? But the numbers don't necessarily say they all want live.
Kyle (05:24.669)
Sure, because they don't want to pay for it.
Kyle (05:32.219)
Viewership wise, yes. Viewership wise, if we go off of viewership only, live needs to be there. But viewership doesn't pay the bills, doesn't pay for that extra cost. It doesn't pay to have that cam op and everything that goes with it. Dollars and cents from support from the industry is what pays for that.
Brian Bashore (05:54.382)
Yeah. And that's what I, I kind of keep jumping on that soapbox is that I get it. Y'all went live. It's great, but it costs a lot of money to do and to do it right. To even, mean, everybody's obviously going to compare it to bass level, but that's, that's a multimillion dollar production type thing. like, what you guys aren't going to get that in the wallet world. Cause there just isn't the money, the backing there. Right.
Kyle (06:06.963)
Yeah.
Kyle (06:14.087)
The money's just not there. And I'll say yet, because it's got to get there. If Walleye ever wants to be on the same playing field as Bass as a whole, it has to get there. At some point, there has to be a company that steps up and says, I'm willing to take this chance. Let's do it. But there hasn't been that for us yet.
Brian Bashore (06:34.958)
Yeah, I expect someday to see John Bala, Johnny Candle, Gary Parsons, or somebody else sitting in the studio, commentating John Hoyer and Dewey and the Springle and whoever else out there on the field, you know, and, and, we are, we're a long ways from it. That's like, I hope in my lifetime.
Kyle (06:40.937)
Correct. Yes.
Kyle (06:47.657)
Correct.
Kyle (06:53.777)
Unfortunately, you're right. know, Brian, it you're right, Brian. It's just it was a constant struggle to one, find commentators to find commentators that people like, you know, Darrell Christian did a great job. Matt Trotz did a great job. Being seeing everything behind the scenes, is way harder than people think it is to talk for five hours, you know, to keep to keep that momentum and keep the positivity and keep everything going for five hours is.
Not easy and it costs a lot of money. Everything falls back to money with live streaming, with tournament fishing, with all of it. It's, it always ties back for money and until that money's there, you know, the Keller family is just not willing to keep pumping that money into it. Like they were in the past. Yeah. I can't blame.
Brian Bashore (07:41.742)
And I know not one bit, so sorry I side railed you there. Anyway, so we're live stream. So we're going live. Then how we got to where we're going. You guys went to live, we adjust those hurdles and then we're into the creating this circuit.
Kyle (07:45.609)
Yeah, no problem.
Kyle (07:58.643)
Yep, so the PWC, you know, we talked about a bunch of different formats. I knew I did not want to use scales in this circuit just because the we don't want to have to have marshals. We don't want to have to have partners for sure. No teams. A true pro circuit doesn't have teams doesn't have a coangler. That's just my opinion and that's the way we're going to run it. A true pro series. You should not have to rely on your calling there to catch you a fish. You should never have to.
And I'm not bashing anything. I'm not bashing into BT. I'm not bashing any other tournament circuits. That's just how I feel because I come from the best world. So.
Brian Bashore (08:36.088)
then he shouldn't be liable for another person in your boat.
Kyle (08:38.825)
You should not be responsible, right? I agree with that as well. So I knew I didn't want to do scales. AIM has it figured out. You know, the bump board to conversion, is it 100 % accurate? No, but everybody's on the same playing field. So.
Brian Bashore (08:55.458)
Yeah, it's the same for anybody. A 20-inch Sauger and a 20-inch Walleye weigh the same for all of us.
Kyle (09:00.233)
Correct, correct. And that's just part of that beast in this format. I knew I'd wanted to get away from the scales. The measurement thing is the easiest way. know, some guys are bringing up question, well, how am I going to measure a fish and take a picture at the same time? I'm short and fat, got squatty arms, and I had no problem getting a 32 inch board in a picture, even in a boat. I've been messing with this all summer. So that part of it really isn't an issue to me.
the pictures are gonna be the least of the problems catching a fish to continually have a fish on the board is, know, the anglers will see that that's what the focus is, right? So yeah, that's how we got to that format of no scales, singles, lack better words, aim type registration.
Brian Bashore (09:46.319)
Thank you.
Brian Bashore (09:56.514)
So that's a fish donkey app. We're going all app, catch the most, not the five biggest 15 inch minimum. I've used a fish donkey. use it on our league and I will fish by myself and I have no problem neither. use a quick grip, so I can put my phone in to set the timer and do the trophy shot. Easy. then yeah, it can be a
Kyle (10:03.539)
correct the most.
Brian Bashore (10:22.07)
a challenge once in a while to get that fish to lay flat, but it may take you a few seconds. mean, ideally you want to get that fish in there. Can you put your hand on it to hold it down long as you're bumping the head and. Okay.
Kyle (10:31.741)
Yes, yes, you can have your hand. It's going to be one hand system just like aim adopted. Can't cover the gill plate. Yeah, gill plates got to be exposed. I'm going to put together a video here this fall with you know the correct way to do it. I mean we could just use the video that aim did because they did a phenomenal job and that's there's only so many ways to skin a cat right?
Brian Bashore (10:35.694)
Yep. You have to be. You should keep it. All right.
Brian Bashore (10:50.318)
Fishnocky provides you with the instructions and everything to do it. So, and you're supplying everybody with the same ruler.
Kyle (10:53.993)
They do, yep.
Kyle (10:58.569)
Yes, we are gonna work with catch, catch bump boards. We are gonna have extra boards. Everybody will get one. If you lose it and misplace it or flies out of the boat, you'll be able to come get a new one for 50 bucks. It's pretty easy.
Brian Bashore (11:13.4)
Fair enough. will say the only problem with fish donkey is it works pretty slick is signal.
Kyle (11:21.085)
Yep, they do have an offline mode.
Brian Bashore (11:23.51)
Yep. So it'll load it in there. Just all of sudden you'll, I mean, you may be, obviously you guys will be alive and be like, yeah, this guy's got so many pounds. And all of a end of the day, somebody can jump way up because the stuff just wasn't. Registry. Sometimes the official register, but the photo won't register because I've had to get their phone. So when you do take a photo, it does save it into your phone's photos. and it, and it takes a little bit of while to go through all those, but you can obviously grab that individual's phone, go through, verify that photo.
Kyle (11:35.197)
Right. Right.
Brian Bashore (11:52.236)
And it'll still timestamp it like every photo in your phone. If you know how to look at that. so that could be, I mean, it's just going to happen. It's inevitable due to somebody's has some cellular one service or something still, and it doesn't work.
Kyle (11:54.983)
Right. Right.
Kyle (12:02.515)
Service.
Yeah, when we're in Green Bay, on Green Bay, it's definitely gonna be an issue. would imagine Devils is gonna be the same way. I remember Mille Lac's cell service being pretty good. Mississippi River, 100%. You're gonna have areas that are just dead spots with the bluffs. So yeah, I like that with fish donkey. They got it figured out, they've been doing it. Most guys in the walleye world have already used it. So it's not gonna be a surprise to them.
Brian Bashore (12:33.506)
Yeah, it works. It works pretty slick. And our league was like, I don't like this. after the first day of using it there, and we have the limit and then we don't have any slots on Lewis and Clark down here, but it's always, I keep this fish? Do I not, you know, what, what size am I keeping? Well, now it says 15 inches, shoot it, throw it back. And they're like, yeah, this is great. It takes, it's so much less stressful. And then it really kind of really truly shows. Cause it's then there's not that whole gamble and risk factor in it. Like.
Kyle (12:55.195)
Yeah, definitely.
Brian Bashore (13:01.806)
This guy really did have it, but he had to throw back a 25 incher and hopes, you know, where the reality is no, he, had it. Hell, he might've won by two or three pounds, but he had to throw back some fish.
Kyle (13:09.513)
How many tournaments have you been in where that's the case, Where the guy that catches the biggest bag doesn't always win.
Brian Bashore (13:13.496)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. that's always been a thing in the walleye world and sly limbs can make that kind of challenging sometimes. And it comes down to who's got the ice in her veins or the biggest balls, I guess, once in a while too. So.
Kyle (13:30.589)
Yeah, not to mention it opens us up to be able to go places that you typically can't too, know, like Mille Lacs with all the regulations there, you know, catch, catch, where it releases the way to is the way to go, you know, some sort of CPR, right?
Brian Bashore (13:35.886)
My legs. Yep.
Brian Bashore (13:44.748)
Yeah, it's a, mean, there's a reason that aim created their circuit and it's, know, doing as well as it is, because you don't have to worry about that. And you get to continue to go to different places, new fisheries. so you got, we'll get back into the rules, breaking it down here. So we're going five fish, catch photo release. Nope. All right. Excuse me. All fish. Yep. 15 inch minimum. Obviously if you break down the rules, there's if.
Kyle (14:04.079)
All fish, not five, all fish count. 15 inches, yep.
Brian Bashore (14:11.362)
You got the ding thing and all that if for nobody's catching stuff does that that only comes into play in the bracket play. I would assume which cause you're gonna if you have a hundred boats, your people are going to catch fish.
Kyle (14:16.489)
Correct. Correct.
Kyle (14:21.353)
Yeah, there's gonna be ties. We're gonna be using tiebreakers and that's probably the place that I'm gonna learn the most at the first event is tiebreakers. There's gonna be something I didn't think about.
Brian Bashore (14:35.074)
And then fishnocky rounds everything up a quarter inch.
Kyle (14:38.461)
They do, yep, they go to the next quarter inch, yep.
Brian Bashore (14:41.654)
Right, it's too hard to verify a 16th on the ruler with a photo.
Kyle (14:45.577)
Yeah, you're better off just going to the next quarter. As long as it covers, it goes to the next. It's pretty simple. It's the same for everybody.
Brian Bashore (14:51.982)
We'll make it clear to people that it's 15 inch minimum. That doesn't mean you get to get a 14 and three quarter inch fish and make it a 15 incher. That does not work that way. I've seen that happen. We have to start. Right. We started 15 and then we could round up. So it's, it's a little, if it's 15 and a 32nd, you can put 15 and a quarter down, but there's no such thing as just a 15 inch fish hardly.
Kyle (14:58.121)
Correct. It has to touch that. It has to touch the 15. Yeah.
Kyle (15:06.781)
Yeah, that's...
Brian Bashore (15:16.302)
all right. So we got that. got the schedule. got Detroit river. have Mille Lacs, Devils Lake, Mississippi, seven, eight, nine pools, championship Sturgeon, Sturgeon Bay.
Kyle (15:21.907)
Yup.
Kyle (15:31.105)
So Mississippi, I'm not 1000 % dead on seven, eight, nine yet. I put that in because that's gonna be the default, right? Like if we may end up going to a different pool, it's gonna be the Mississippi somewhere. I just didn't wanna put Mississippi question mark in the rules. So the default's gonna be seven, eight, nine. I'm waiting to hear back a couple things and then that will get set in stone. But the seven, eight, nine is the default if the other one doesn't work.
Brian Bashore (15:59.083)
That would be my choice, seven, eight or nine, or just nine personally.
Kyle (16:02.395)
And I know La Crosse really well from running bass events there, fish and bass events there, good relationship with Jeremiah Burish. it's easy. It's easy. They got an awesome, some awesome locations to run out of. So pretty easy there.
Brian Bashore (16:06.231)
Yep, bass.
Brian Bashore (16:18.542)
Yeah, Jeremiah's all in on supporting you guys there, I'm sure. uh, so we go back into the format. You get the four tournaments that are open. why do we get into, so instead of having, what do we do before the pro-wildlife series? think you had like 16 anglers or something or 32.
Kyle (16:22.301)
Yeah, definitely.
Kyle (16:36.489)
32 was we had the same 32 for the whole season.
Brian Bashore (16:40.846)
Right. That's right. And they were head to head. So hence the name head to head fishing. now you opened it up to their opens, their everybody. How do we get there? And what do we think that's looking like moving forward and numbers?
Kyle (16:43.475)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle (16:54.889)
So we always heard during the PWS that, oh, I wish I could get in this, you know, local guys, right? When we're in Detroit River or whatever, man, I wish I could get in this. I'd love to fish. How do I get in? And, you know, having to tell somebody, this is a closed field. This is, we got 32 was, it was always kind of awkward and weird. So we wanted to make them opens and let anybody come and challenge your skills against the best of the best, the best of the best coming fish, you know?
The biggest thing with that was I wanted to make sure that there's commitment and it's not just a jackpotters tournament in Detroit River, right? We don't want to show up Detroit River and only have people from their fishing, right? So having to fish all forward of quality for that championship is where that came from.
Brian Bashore (17:30.638)
and it's octoseject.
We don't like shots you say,
Fair enough. That's probably that's how that should be. So, but the opens do allow you to test the waters if you're considering it. mean, obviously first years are always kind of, you don't know what you're getting. A lot of people are going to sit back and see how things unfold and then it'll be like, I love it. Awesome. I missed out. I'm all in, type type of deal. So, I mean, that's
Kyle (17:52.339)
Yeah. Yep.
Kyle (18:02.281)
Correct.
Brian Bashore (18:05.592)
Fortunately, head to head has been around, so they got a fairly good idea, but it's really how many people are going to sign up, are the numbers where they need to be to make the entry versus payout all worthwhile for anglers.
Kyle (18:05.747)
Yeah.
Kyle (18:17.097)
Right. Yep. And that's, that's the unknown, right? When we're kind of, you kind of at some point got to throw it at the wall and you know, make sure it sticks there and without the anglers, it don't stick there. So, and like I, like I said, in the beginning, our focus has changed, right? Like when I say our, mean, my, like I put a lot of weight on, on live in the past and seeing that in the wall, I started things being different. It's, it's just not as big of a deal. So,
Brian Bashore (18:20.928)
Right.
Brian Bashore (18:28.397)
No
Kyle (18:45.353)
Going to an open where we don't have to worry about having you know 40 cameras or whatever on the water You know There is still some talk of having some sort of live but not in camera not cameras in boats
Brian Bashore (19:00.364)
Yeah, I was going to say, it, are you still going to have maybe three or four of them kind of just random, you know, obviously after day one, then you can put them in the leader type boats, but, maybe just hold all that for championship or I guess see how things unfold.
Kyle (19:12.681)
The one thing that we are doing and I didn't put it in the rules because I wanted to speak to it first is we are not putting cameras in the boats at the open. The anglers can live stream all they want. So the anglers can go ahead and if they want media, they can have a media person running a camera with them. Or like some of the bass guys are doing, put star links in their boats and they live stream directly from their boats. That is 100 % okay. We have no problem with that.
Brian Bashore (19:24.108)
Yep, I saw that.
Kyle (19:42.729)
Correct. And if we end up with 10 guys that want to do it, you know, maybe we set up a panel at each event. We talk about that their day. You know, we have some sort of commentary, you know, built into it as well. You know, just all, all things that would have to come up as they, as they happen, right.
Brian Bashore (19:43.725)
You only benefit from it, so.
Brian Bashore (20:01.902)
Right. Yeah. You got a lot of, I know, know Tom Winnert and I've talked about it he's been trying, you know, doing it on, on his. And my plan is to do that with the star Lincoln and do that this year, um, whichever, wherever I'm fishing, uh, to do the same.
Kyle (20:06.142)
Yeah.
Kyle (20:12.797)
The technology makes it so much easier.
Brian Bashore (20:16.814)
Yeah. And I mean, it's just, yes, that's not the greatest camera angles when you got your GoPro just running, but it's better than nothing. And like I said, if you could do a little commentary, mean, got wireless mics to part of it is the angular to do the commentary too, but obviously it's taken away from your focus a little bit. Um, and it's definitely a challenge, but then again, if you're a professional here in the business of, of, of fishing and winning's great.
Kyle (20:24.563)
Yep.
Kyle (20:34.397)
Definitely.
Kyle (20:41.715)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Bashore (20:43.842)
But you're there, you're there because your sponsor supported you to be there for some of us, not all of us, obviously, but obviously it's your job is to promote them and there's no better way to do it than that live stream.
Kyle (20:55.433)
Correct. Yep.
Brian Bashore (20:57.902)
All right. So we got that we have, you got, well, anger has been asking for a lot of these things and it looks like you basically implemented all of that in her off limits, no information where we get on, on 13, 14 day off limit period, something like that.
Kyle (21:14.749)
Yeah, I originally wanted to do 30, but we just can't, you know, there's too many circuits. There's too many, you know, going to the body bodies of water. are obviously Detroit river. There's going to be a conflict right away. so that, that one's 13 days because of the final day of the NWT. If I did 14, anybody that wanted to fish both would be in violation of the rule. So
Brian Bashore (21:35.758)
So you have April 10th is the day the tournament is April 9th and 10th.
Kyle (21:42.793)
So the last day, so registration deadlines attempt and then again like I
Brian Bashore (21:48.394)
off limits it says the 10th. So to me that means you can't be there on the 10th.
Kyle (21:52.359)
Let me find it here. I might have that.
Brian Bashore (21:56.302)
I think that need to be the 11th.
Kyle (21:58.537)
Yeah, you're right. I'm going to change that in the rules right now.
Brian Bashore (22:01.79)
the other one you have a sturgeon bay where the NMT is a green bay 30th 31st assuming there's no blow days and if there is they may not have built in anyway august 1st is your cutoff so that yep you i could tell you set it up just to fit around those things
Kyle (22:05.225)
Yep.
Kyle (22:11.081)
Correct, yep.
Kyle (22:15.729)
Yeah, so that one is fixed. We'll update the rules that one another good catch a stare at long enough, right? So yeah, that was the reason behind that. Like I said, I wanted to do 30 days. We just be just couldn't two weeks off limits is enough and you get people that guide and whatever else that will still be able to make a living prior to that. The three days of practice was a the guys from the PWS loved it. All the angers loved the three days of practice, so.
Brian Bashore (22:20.332)
Yeah. Yep.
Brian Bashore (22:28.91)
care.
Brian Bashore (22:43.821)
Yeah.
The reality is two weeks out or even five days out, whatever you find is, it's going to change come tournament time anyway. And I love the three days of us, anglers on the of a teacher. I've asked for that too, just to have it at a, like a three and a half, four day or whatever. Boom, you know, two weeks off limits, bam. Here's your practice window. It's even for everybody. Uh, and I mean, how many.
Kyle (22:47.324)
It's.
Kyle (22:52.105)
Correct. Yep.
Kyle (23:05.545)
Yep. And if somebody wants to go pre-practice, they can, you know, it's a safety thing. Everybody should probably go check out a body of water if they've never been there before. Cause three days just isn't going to be enough. Um, if you've never been there, right. Um, so yeah, that, that's how we got there. Uh, again, with the pro level in mind, right. Um, I do a lot of comparing to bass because it's already proven and it drives a lot of guys into all I said crazy, but that's just my mind thinks that I try to figure out a way to get it.
Brian Bashore (23:17.731)
Yeah.
Kyle (23:36.413)
to blend in on the walleye side of things, because they are different, 100%.
Brian Bashore (23:41.378)
Yeah, but I mean, we got live scope nowadays. I mean, it's you can find some fish in three days. I don't think you're going to have a lot of zeros. Right.
Kyle (23:46.535)
Yeah, definitely. Especially for this format, don't have to find the 10 pounders. You can nickel and dime them.
Brian Bashore (23:53.268)
Right. Yeah. It's not hard to go to lacrosse and, you know, or pull whatever and hit a wing dam and start pitching something and be like, all right, there's a fish. So I don't think you're going to get a lot of zeros in your schedule this year. You don't have to worry about the Dink video or doing any of that kind of stuff.
Kyle (24:09.789)
Yep, yeah. And that's always an exciting part of it, but having somebody win without catching a fish on the final day was a tough one too, so.
Brian Bashore (24:21.55)
Yeah. Yeah. That was a challenge. I mean, you're kind of covered everything with how the format is set up. The opens are the opens. mean, they're basically just a best case scenario. got 125 plus boats. You got a full field. You're going to go fish. You're going to catch as many fish as you can. You're going to put them in the app. You're going to come in. Probably still take you a little while to filter through all the photos. I mean, you're going to be doing it as real time as you possibly can, I imagine.
Kyle (24:51.657)
Yeah, we're going to have myself and two others for sure. Uh, verifying, you know, you get 125 books. could be thousands of fish, right? I mean, potentially it could be a lot of fish that they have to verify. um, event one's definitely going to be a learning event too, will definitely better be better than event one and we'll get it. We'll get a good process down. So.
Brian Bashore (24:51.778)
And then.
Brian Bashore (25:00.58)
wait.
Brian Bashore (25:16.12)
You got, we got no co-anglers. don't have any, no marshals. So we have the off limits, no information rule, which is clearly a little hard to enforce. look at there's no information rule is more of a deterrent, right? You know, if you win, there's a lie detector test maybe or whatever, and that's where it comes out. So it's like, it's a completely up to you. If you think you're, you want to be that kind of person that wants to get all the info you can and keep it to yourself, it may come back and bite you.
Kyle (25:30.269)
Yeah. Yeah, it's.
Kyle (25:44.455)
You you go ahead and win and. Like I, I think we've proven that we don't have a problem disqualifying people for things that break a rule. So polygraph is a really easy one. You know we're not going to live in the in the Gray area. I'm not a gray area person and. Polygraphs are going to be are going to be part of it. Just the nature of the beast, especially for that kind of money. You know it's not fair to the guy that finishes second if we don't polygraph. The winner, you know.
Brian Bashore (26:00.59)
Good.
Brian Bashore (26:08.107)
Yeah, and-
Brian Bashore (26:14.35)
Yep. Fair enough. that's, yep, that's, that's how it should be. And, I don't think anybody likes the gray area in fishing tournaments period. So you already have enough with the fish, knocky app thing and people, you know, but it's, it's really pretty simple. And in any, no matter what you do, there's a way to cheat or a way around it. You know,
Kyle (26:15.197)
No matter who he is. Yep.
Kyle (26:22.611)
No, no, think you're right.
Kyle (26:33.776)
Yeah, the Photoshop thing. I saw a couple of them just the last few months going down this rabbit hole of guys Photoshopping bass and like it's just unbelievable. If you want to cheat, you're going to cheat and you're going to get caught and at some point your luck's going to run out and we're going to catch you.
Brian Bashore (26:51.47)
You got tournament directors, but you also have all the other anglers. And if you're live or what, mean, you have the whole walleye world is watching you. Weights and fish have proven that I think time over again, right? It's pretty obvious what after, you know, one after another, after another, it's, it's on there. I know people have gone to like break in the backs and the fish for they measure them and popping their jaws, trying to get another quarter inch. mean, it's just like, that's, that's the whole purpose is conservation in this format.
Kyle (27:02.429)
Yep.
Kyle (27:19.783)
Yeah, right.
Brian Bashore (27:20.192)
And eliminating slots. And if you're the type of person doing that, mean, Carmen's going to get you. It's just that simple.
Kyle (27:28.201)
That's right.
Brian Bashore (27:30.254)
is, does the head to head team stuff, are those still going into 2026, the bass and Wally or just this, this is it. We're all in. Okay.
Kyle (27:38.439)
This is it for 26. We want to 100 % on this and build this and build the customer base, the anglers, build a platform that the guys want to be at. there's anybody that's ever ran a tournament, there's a lot that goes into it. And when you're dealing with potential of 100 plus anglers, it's an everyday, everyday, all day scenario.
running the leagues, would really love to do it if we had a sponsor come up and say, we love this, we want to keep this going. I'll figure it out. But as of right now, it's just this.
Brian Bashore (28:16.462)
So anybody listening out there that wants to be a sponsor, what do they need to do? What are they getting? How do they need to get a hold of you, Brian?
Kyle (28:23.485)
Yeah, they'll get a hold of me. They can head to the website my within the rules my emails on there I'm easy to find on social media. Otherwise as well you feel free to post my my phone number on here to Brian If you do want to get a hold of me, it's pretty simple. It's kcarpenter at phyxproductions.com or at nine two zero eight one nine five seven three one questions comments sponsorships everything
Sponsorship side, I'll be honest, when I say a focus change, that was part of it. Like we went into it like needing that sponsor dollar, right? Like that sponsor dollar had to come in for the PWS to work. And that was one of our big mistakes was relying on that and putting so much weight on it. So for this, mean, at a fairly low number of votes were self-sufficient.
Brian Bashore (29:10.336)
Right.
Brian Bashore (29:18.68)
So is there a minimum number you need to hit to make this thing go?
Kyle (29:23.913)
Um, there always is right. Um, I, after the last two days here, I really don't think that's going to be a problem. Um, it's going to take some time to build. We're not going to get 125 at the first event. If we do awesome, I will completely eat crow on that. But, um, we are paying back 80%. So we, for the first time in head to head history, we're, keeping 20 % of the entries first time ever. Right. So.
that is going to help us be self-sufficient and really I don't want to say not need sponsors because that's not that's not what I'm trying to say but we're not going to be reliant on them if that makes sense.
Brian Bashore (30:01.698)
Right. You have a entry fee. Payouts are going to be based on the amount of anglers. Obviously your payout schedule, like every term it does is based off of a hundred years is 125 boats. Just like the NWT, you know, here's, here's where we're at. You don't have the co-anglers to fund the championship. So you have to take 20, 25 % of whatever that is and you're moving into the championship, which I'm going to have a whole bunch of questions about that. That was, that's where it gets a little confusing for a lot of us. but that's how you fund it. And then the sponsorships come in.
Kyle (30:07.401)
Correct. Yep.
Kyle (30:26.675)
does. It does.
Brian Bashore (30:31.18)
That's great. Not just that helps operate operating costs on the back end. And then maybe you can bring a few of those cameras back online, you know.
Kyle (30:39.623)
Yeah, and any sponsor dollars that come in, you we're going to keep a small percentage of it and put the rest back into it, be it through live payouts, whatever it may be. When that comes up, then we'll worry about that at the time. I have had some reach out in the last two days, which is awesome. Majority of them were partners in the past, so that's even better. You know, they've seen the value in what we do, so that's great. Not turning anybody away, obviously.
But we don't have to be reliant on it either. We don't have to have X amount of dollars to make this work.
Brian Bashore (31:15.714)
Yeah, it's all bonus. And then obviously what I hate to see is pressure leases come out with, we got his new sponsor on board. the anglers are like, cool. And nothing changes on the angler side. There's no more media coverage. There's no more payouts. It's like, why did you, you don't need to tout your sponsorship. That's great. I'm happy they're supporting it. They're not handing out free baits at the rules meeting. We're like, that did absolutely nothing for any of the anglers. So thanks for rubbing it in our face. You just got more money that you put in your pocket.
Kyle (31:24.489)
Correct. Yep.
Kyle (31:41.664)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (31:43.158)
Which it's a business and good on you. That's how it's supposed to work. But just go ahead and keep that to yourself. Then you don't rub it.
Kyle (31:51.145)
Without the customers, the business doesn't work. Just like any other business in this industry, the new anglers are our customers and happy customers are returning customers. So again, I'll go back to changing the focus. We are open, 100 % open to the majority of the money from sponsorships covering either live that benefits the anglers or anger benefits somewhere. Be it directly payouts, whatever it may be.
Brian Bashore (31:54.591)
Yeah.
Kyle (32:21.305)
it's gonna happen. So, and we've always been, we've always been very transparent. You know, anybody that fished the PWS with us, all them 32 anglers know that here's, here's what came in, here's what went out. You know, we, we were very transparent with it. So.
Brian Bashore (32:23.64)
So we got.
Brian Bashore (32:37.634)
Yeah, I mean you did. So you're to do a lot of those same kind of things leading up to it. Once you got guys committing, we're going to have, mean, you got media stuff figured out. Are you going to do pre, I mean, you have a rules meeting. I think you have like a registration, break that down. You have a couple of meetings I noticed before the term.
Kyle (32:54.823)
Yeah, so we'll have a registration meeting for sure. You know, where everybody's going to meet up. That's what communities want. So one part of it is if you're going to communities, they want heads and beds. want big group anglers getting together and spending money in their community. So for us to be valuable to the community, that's part of it. It's not going to be anything extravagant. We had dinner and a big deal before. For year one, it's going to be us meeting, talking about rules.
you know, pretty simple, quick and easy meeting. If that changes where we do get some dollars to pay for a dinner at each event, great. That's what we'll do. But yeah, the event one, we're going to have a lot of questions. We're going to probably all the events to be honest. So I have a lot of questions from people that are fishing for the first time. And that's basically the, what that meeting is going to be. And then day one we'll have a meeting location and then guys will be free to go fish. So.
Brian Bashore (33:53.446)
And it'll be we're all launching out of the same place type deal, right? And here's our flight times just like any regular tournament I think people are just are still gonna try that that's what the questions are gonna be of separating the old head-to-head or PWS from an open circuit where it's really just
Kyle (34:00.797)
Standard tournament, yep.
Brian Bashore (34:09.74)
This is just a fishing tournament. We're just using fish donkey and it's an individual which will kind of prove last year can completely be done and competed against.
Kyle (34:17.609)
Correct, yep.
Brian Bashore (34:20.27)
Media coverage, say, and so we're going to, or it is going to be some interviews that people follow along on your Facebook or YouTube or head to head and get some angular insight or live updates as, mean, what, where are we, what are we doing on that front?
Kyle (34:30.205)
Yeah. So weird. We had a conversation yesterday about possibly and nothing set in stone yet of doing a live like commentary at the event. be it two or three anglers, myself, whoever, while we're verifying fish real, real simple and entertaining, you know, off the cuff type stuff of, we just got this came in and we'll control the leaderboard on that live. So we won't take that leaderboard and put it on the website per se for everybody to see.
they'll be able to come and watch the live, see it there for X amount of time, and then it would go to the website. So that's what I was talking about where we potentially may have some live as we go.
And then media coverage, we're working with a couple different people to supply media coverage or, you know, do blogs and interviews and potentially have a post-edited show, you know, kind of along the lines of tour level gold, right? Everybody loves that. think that gets probably one of the best shows ever in walleye fishing, in my opinion. And bass fishing, to be honest, just covering a tournament that's not the tournament organization doing it. It's amazing. They do a great job with it.
Brian Bashore (35:25.538)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (35:33.09)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (35:39.808)
Right. Yeah, they do.
Kyle (35:42.599)
So that's kind of the goal for each event is to have some sort of coverage that way plus live at the event so everybody knows what's going on and then have some post edited stuff later on.
Brian Bashore (35:55.407)
Of course, like we said, money talks, right? So if some sponsorship money dollars come in, no matter how much they are, that's going to open those avenues up, which increases the angler exposure, which is therefore invites more anglers in.
Kyle (35:57.821)
That's right. That's right.
Kyle (36:03.518)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle (36:09.939)
For us to go live at the event on shore, mic up a couple guys, couple cameras is really easy. If we have wifi, it's free. We have time to set it up, right? If you're doing it from shore, there's nothing to it really. We've learned so much about it that it's no different than the platform around right now. It's really easy to do, so.
Brian Bashore (36:31.98)
Yep, as as audio works, right? long as we get audio to work.
Kyle (36:33.705)
Thanks, Andy.
Brian Bashore (36:37.986)
Yeah, the, leaderboard. So fish donkey, are you going to have the app open for all the anglers to see? Okay. I love that. We switched that in our, on our league night that way too. We did it the first year where it was open. didn't take long to when you were catching fish to where you had four boats right around you. And we're like, that's an MLS style when you can see where you're at. And you know, some guys liked it, but majority were like, shut it off. don't.
Kyle (36:44.463)
Anglers will not be able to see it. Nope.
Brian Bashore (37:04.642)
You and I like it that way just because there's the element of surprise, you know, you think you had a good day and you come in and you're like, wow. I didn't have that good a day. Or you're like, I rocked everybody by seven, eight pounds. So.
Kyle (37:05.021)
Yeah, I don't-
Kyle (37:16.605)
See, I turn them in fish as well and I don't like knowing what people have because I don't want it to affect my decision making or like, man, I know Brian's over there cracking them, doing whatever. I should probably do that. Now it's going to steer me off my path and I'd rather just lose myself than to go off of somebody else's deal. I don't want that controversy either. I don't want the issue of, this guy saw it on the app so he came over by me.
Brian Bashore (37:43.439)
Nope. Cause it will happen. That would guarantee that will happen. And you'll have all these fishing five feet from me he wasn't there until, you know, nine 30. Yeah. It's that it's definitely that's a great way to do it. And it just, and it keeps the spectators like the live aspect of it or whatever there is. But I mean, you guys have your live coverage. The anglers obviously aren't going to be watching it because they're going to be on the water. So that'll keep them engaged. And then the anglers will all be out, you know,
Kyle (37:44.573)
Yeah, we'll just eliminate that from the beginning. Yeah.
Kyle (37:51.582)
Yep.
Kyle (38:04.978)
Right. Right.
Brian Bashore (38:10.222)
surprised basically like, like they should be when they come in, build up that anticipation. So, uh, yeah, good, good, good way to do that for sure. Why? So we're looking to get to the payouts listed on there based off 125 boats. Why, how do we come up with 125? Why not just do like 50, 60 anglers that you picked or, whatever.
Kyle (38:31.731)
Yep, it's. It's it's I mean, it's the wall factor, right? Like you look at NWT, they based off 125. I don't know what their average has been over last five years, but it's not been 125. Had we come out with a payout schedule of, you know, 50, right? Then first place is, you know, 30. I'm just using numbers. I would have to go through and figure it out, but first place at 35,000. It's not near as appealing. It's not near of the. wow. Look at this potential.
Brian Bashore (38:42.559)
It's not 125.
Brian Bashore (38:52.311)
Right.
Kyle (39:01.447)
What people, what we can make, you know, a hundred thousand dollars for first place is like, wow. Now we're the same as NWT. we don't have the luxury of, of owning white river Marine and having, you know, a boat to give away. So that's, have to gap that with cash and that obviously comes out of the payout. And that's why that's, that's how I got to what we're at. I wanted to extend a little past more than 20%.
one for every five. So that's where we got to 27 rather than 24. Um, it was honestly tough, right? And to break that entry fee down to go to the, what goes to the championship plus to round wins, stuff like that is, I mean, it's, it's a, it's kind of a struggle to get to that point with, with whatever number you're using. Um, it's just balancing it out. So it makes sense, right?
Brian Bashore (39:37.998)
Right? To break that century down to go to the, what goes to the championship, stuff like that.
Brian Bashore (39:55.818)
Right. the NWT, yeah, average 125 has gone down considerably and I believe there's only 55 anglers that fished all four events last year.
Kyle (40:05.159)
Really? Okay. Yep. Yeah. I didn't even dig into it that far. And you brought it up before too, the co anglers kind of feed some of the payout, right? The championship or, you know, however it goes, but the co angler money, there is some there that gets paid out as well. don't have that luxury either. So.
Brian Bashore (40:20.972)
Yeah. Yeah. That's why a lot of Co's say, Hey, we need a higher payout. Well, the reality is you're not, if you're signing up as a Co, you shouldn't be fishing for the money anyway. You're fishing for the experience. That money goes most, most of that goes into the championship and then they pay for their entry into the championship versus the pros. And there you go.
Kyle (40:30.825)
the experience.
Kyle (40:38.417)
Right. Unless they're fishing for their own pot, fishing for their own fish, you know, kind of like the old Bassmaster days of coanglers, right? Which never works. I mean, it's just, yeah, at the elite level and the opens, like the BFLs, they still do coangler and that's all you, you just hear horror stories after horror story of coanglers, right? And I get it. It's a good opportunity for them, but go buy a boat and go fish, right?
Brian Bashore (40:48.618)
No, and they got rid of that I believe, didn't they? A lot of them.
Brian Bashore (40:55.681)
Go English.
Brian Bashore (41:06.498)
Yup. Yup. Yup. I mean, it's, it's a stepping stone and it's worked for the NWT because those guys half a dozen a year move up to the pro level or they get some boat sales out of it or whatever the case is. But I mean, I love, I love the format without having to be responsible and on the, on the hook for the coangler. but. All right.
Kyle (41:07.849)
You
Kyle (41:13.607)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Kyle (41:19.251)
Yeah, absolutely.
Kyle (41:25.885)
And it has its place too, you know, it definitely has its place.
Brian Bashore (41:30.402)
There's, there's a lot of team circuits out there. I mean, you got, know, we, so the question is on the boat numbers, obviously we perfect world. want all these, all these circuits to be full. Everybody picked their poison, whichever way they like to go. But are we becoming fragmented a little bit here? got aim next, which is kind of trying to get its stuff out there. Team circuit different, but same format in a sense. don't know. Right. Yeah, there's.
Kyle (41:40.137)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle (41:51.485)
Yep. And you're taking from the same pie of anglers for the most part.
Brian Bashore (41:57.807)
not as many wall anglers as there are bass anglers in the world, there's still a hell of a lot of them.
Kyle (42:01.193)
Correct. Yes, there is. And the walleye anglers are honestly, and this is where I keep Brian and I keep talking about is the walleye side is the place for the most advancement opportunity, right? You know, because there are so many, everybody in the world wants to catch a walleye and eat one because they're delicious, right? So everybody is a walleye fisherman in their mind, but there's so many walleye anglers that don't tournament fish.
Brian Bashore (42:21.058)
Yep, right.
Kyle (42:31.273)
It's amazing. Like it's, it's absolutely amazing. There's some of the guides, some of the guys and guides that don't tournament fish started to, you would see an influx 10, 15 % like overnight because there's so many. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (42:44.62)
Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of room for growth. Yeah. There's definitely, I mean, there's a lot of wall anglers, lot of tournaments and there's just a lot of tournaments in general for walleye in a sense in the upper, you know, around the Midwest. I mean, bass is the same. got friends in Florida and they fish four or five nights a week when in some kind of league or the Tuesday night or the Sunday all day or the, mean, they
Kyle (43:04.797)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (43:06.272)
I don't think some us in the Midwest realize how many bass tournaments are always going on. And you'll see some of those pros, the Wilkins or the, or the G men get in the local Derby just cause they want to go fish that Tuesday, you know, and, it's open and right. sometimes they practice.
Kyle (43:17.203)
Yeah, cause you want to have fun. It's grassroots for them guys. It's, it's grassroots and keeping their name relevant too. And you know, like G man fishing, like you said, I'm Thursday nighters. He's, he's continuing his fan base that way. Cause everybody wants to beat them. Everybody that lives in Guntersville wants to beat wants to beat Gerald Swindle and they do it.
Brian Bashore (43:31.458)
Yep. Yeah. And they do, right? Yeah. And he wins some and they lose some. And he's just like, right on, man. I'll, I'll take my licking. She's to keep on bringing them boys. And yeah, it's good for everybody down there. It's good for the industry. I, I, like, I like the, the capitalism, the competition just breeds better competition in a sense. And then that's all by having you guys step up and bring this to the plate is going to make the other circuits either not exist.
Kyle (43:40.104)
Yep.
Kyle (43:46.28)
It is.
Brian Bashore (44:00.568)
or up their game.
Kyle (44:02.057)
Yeah. mean, you saw the effect from the PWS in the NWT. was glaring obvious there. Some of their coverage stepped up a little bit compared to what they did in the past. And we came around, you you saw it. it Robert? Um, Cardena started doing interviews and, stuff like that. None of that happened that year prior, you know, so competition's good, push each other. We're not trying, like I said before, we're not trying to put anybody out of business. Every tournament series has their place. We just want to be the place that the anglers want to be at.
Brian Bashore (44:14.776)
Yeah, Cardenas.
Kyle (44:31.545)
and for whatever reason, right?
Brian Bashore (44:33.294)
Yeah. And, like you said, there's, there's plenty of growth opportunities in the wallet world to really feed all these levels. I don't know if it's at a hundred, it may not be the first year or even the second year, but it, it, it's going to get there when the things that the anglers want show up. And then that's when the industry follows suit and goes, all right, we see it. The demand is clicking. You guys are doing this viewership's huge. Those sponsor dollars grow. And then that's how we get to that bass level, but it doesn't happen overnight.
Kyle (44:41.533)
Definitely.
Kyle (44:59.315)
Yep. Yep. You know, there was an interesting, I think it was Corey Heiser was on a podcast with Brandon the other day and I caught bits and pieces of it. Him talking about how he thinks, live bait should not be allowed in, in tournaments. And I agree with him on some parts of it, but I disagree in other parts. Obviously we had the real shot connected to us with the PWS in the past. That is a big reason why we wanted to do artificial only is try to sell baits, right? And.
It really didn't work. it, didn't transfer to more sales. We got more sales to TRS from the sponsorship, but we didn't get the anglers coming in and buying thousands of baits because they could only use them. They already have them and you really don't lose them. Corey said something that's really interesting that to me is into the industry that Berkeley is a big sponsor of all the anglers, which is all they do. The anglers need that. Right.
Brian Bashore (45:42.51)
All right.
Brian Bashore (45:48.782)
is in the industry. Firstly, it's a big sponsor of all the Ambulance which is involved.
Yep.
Kyle (45:58.249)
but they're not doing anything for the tournament series to be artificial only. Right? Nobody's making money on live bait. Understand that make 12 cents on a dozen crawlers. You're not making any money on it. You don't make any money on a jig. But as a tournament organization, we want fish catches. We want the leaderboard changing. Until Berkeley or X company comes up and says, Hey, we want you to be artificial only. Here's a check for X amount of dollars. Why would the tournament organization care?
Brian Bashore (46:00.149)
for the permanent series two VR.
Nobody's making money out of life. understand that. It makes no sense on the government dollars. You're not making any money out of You don't make any money out of it. But as a permanent organization, want fish catches. We want the leader for it. All right.
you
Yeah, it's chicken and egg thing, right? Which is coming first. You want me to eliminate all this in hopes that you jump on board or how about you just jump on board and we'll eliminate all this.
Kyle (46:28.297)
And again, yeah, yep.
Kyle (46:38.097)
And it is great that them companies support the anglers because without the anglers getting it, none of it exists, right? We don't even have the opportunity to have the platform. So you're right, chicken and the egg. You can't have one without the other.
Brian Bashore (46:52.834)
Yep. So we're going artificial and live bait in the pro-wal-eye circuit with head to head, which was what we talked about prior. So for anybody wondering, cause I think you got to add that up into the rules for clarification is live and artificial bait is allowed.
Kyle (47:03.017)
Yeah, I have it added into number 17, I believe, which it should have been updated already today because before we started, I had that updated.
should be live on the website. And I'll have to go look for the, where it says PWS as well.
Brian Bashore (47:24.462)
PWS yeah, I can't remember where they were assaults over on there. Um, championships. So explain that that's the, the opens are the opens the first four $3,000 entry fee, 125. There's no limit on boats. I assume you probably put in for like a 200 for your permits or whatever, which whatever you're, you're plenty safe with that.
Kyle (47:38.153)
No limit on the opens.
Yeah, I'll probably put 125 on the permit for this year. Most DNRs are really, really good with if you get more or less, whatever, just letting them know. The championship, we wanted to continue that traditional head-to-head bracket, right? And we didn't want it to last. In Wisconsin, we found out the hard way. All of a sudden, you just can't have a five-day event.
Brian Bashore (47:51.508)
Right. Yep.
Brian Bashore (48:01.593)
Okay.
Kyle (48:11.945)
So the PWS was Monday, Tuesday, play in Wednesday, Thursday, Friday bracket. So a three day bracket. We wanted to do a three day bracket and not stretch it out four or five days. So that's where we went with 16. I do understand some guys talking that it does feel like based on 125, only 16 guys would make the championship. It does seem like it's low. That can grow. We could go to a 32.
Brian Bashore (48:37.198)
Okay.
Kyle (48:41.065)
If we end up with 100 boat average, could go to a 32 championship bracket. You know, more guys could qualify and we could extend at that point, we could extend the round wins, you know, cause that's a big thing, right? We found out with our leagues that the championship, you, everybody should be fishing for something every time they go out in a championship. So that's where the round wins came in. That number is.
Brian Bashore (48:49.23)
at that point we could extend the round wins. You cause that's the big thing, right? We found out with our leagues that the championship, you, everybody should be fishing for something every time they go out in the championship. So that's where the round comes in. That number is where it gets real tricky. Is it 500 or is it 200, is it 2000? It's gonna change based on the number of holes you have.
Kyle (49:10.555)
is where it gets real tricky. it 500 or is it 200? Is it 2000? And it's going to change based on the number of boats you have.
Brian Bashore (49:18.542)
So yeah, 16 boats. let's get into the championship. So if you win an open event, you're in the championship as long as you fish all the open events. if you win the fourth one, you've had to fish the previous three. So that then leaves 12 open, 12 spots going down the angular to the year points.
Kyle (49:26.641)
All four. Yep, Zongy fish all four.
Kyle (49:32.211)
Correct.
Kyle (49:35.881)
12, yep.
Kyle (49:40.285)
So ultimately, your seeding is going to be set on AOI points. If all 16, sorry, four winners, the four winners fall within that 16 already, then there's nothing to do. That's where they're seeding, that's where they go. So let's say X Angler wins round one, and they're 22nd in AOI. And the other three are in the top 16.
Brian Bashore (49:57.439)
okay.
Kyle (50:07.675)
that winner would supersede number 16. So 16th would get bumped, the winner would go into 16th seed. So I would assume that each winner is going to be in the top 16 as long as they fish all four. But like you just said, somebody could fish the last one and then that winner doesn't apply. So.
Brian Bashore (50:15.17)
Got it.
Brian Bashore (50:30.35)
Yep. And then you got, so you're, you'll, so you have what, first day or two, all 16 fish individually? Yeah, of course. As, or against each other as against the, of an open, right?
Kyle (50:40.059)
Yeah, yeah, so day one.
Kyle (50:45.993)
I'm gonna pull up my chart here just so don't speak wrong to it. We have it all built out and we'll get this off.
Brian Bashore (50:51.34)
It just refers to bracket, you know, when the rules were brackets, brackets, brackets. I'm like, all right. And if you've watched ahead to head, you kind of understand it, but
Kyle (51:01.129)
So we'll get this all on the website too. So day one, everybody will fish and day one we will have marshals is if we don't have live every day we don't have live. will have marshals in the boats for the championship, weighing the fish or, you know, just being there to keep everybody, you know, you know, legit in the championship. Not that it won't be in the opens, but in the championship, we want to just make sure we have somebody there. So round one is going to be day one is going to be.
Brian Bashore (51:18.296)
Right.
Kyle (51:30.025)
So, one will be four matches in the AM and then four matches in the PM.
Brian Bashore (51:36.622)
Four matches in the AM and then four matches in the PM. Four hour matches. Four hour matches. Okay.
Kyle (51:42.611)
Four hour matches, yep. And then the winners will qualify to day two, it will be AM only, and that will be potentially filmed. And then round three is PM of day two, sorry, so day two does have AM and PM. So round two is AM of the winners from day one.
Brian Bashore (51:55.47)
Sorry, so day two does have.
Round two is AM of the winners from day one.
Kyle (52:05.833)
PM is the winners from AM of day two. Okay, so day one is gonna be AM PM, winners move on. Day two will be AM of all the winners from day one. They qualify on round three, which is gonna be in the PM of day two. And then day three is the championship in just a morning.
Brian Bashore (52:14.83)
Day two will be AM of all the winners from day one. They qualify on three, which is gonna be at the PM of day...
Brian Bashore (52:30.118)
And then how many are in the championship? Just two? Just two, right?
Kyle (52:34.003)
Yeah, just two. So there'll be two fishing for the Champage Yep. And then two fishing for third and fourth. Four spots. Yep.
Brian Bashore (52:40.654)
turning fourth and they were paying out four spots, which is like 70, 50, 40, 30, 20, something like that.
Kyle (52:47.687)
Yeah, I did it real quick and simple, right? 70, 40, 30, 20, and then the round wins on top of them.
Brian Bashore (52:51.266)
But then there's.
So the round, so you can win 2000 per round starting from, mean, you can not make the championship but come out with $4,000 in round wins.
Kyle (53:04.253)
Yeah, yeah, if you win round one and round two, that's four grand and lose round three, you're going home at four grand. Obviously if you lose day one, round one, you're out. But if you win, you're home at two grand. Again, based off the 1.5, yep.
Brian Bashore (53:17.802)
And if you obviously make it all the way, so if you win the championship, you're up to 76,000. Right. Based off these, so anybody listen, this is based off 125 boats. This is full filled. So payouts obviously be adjusted with the number of boats, just like any tournament. And it's cash. which anglers are going to love. So they're going to prefer the cash over winning a boat as great as that all is. There's still very, very few anglers keep those boats. So.
Kyle (53:24.009)
76,000 yes. Yep.
Kyle (53:29.885)
Yes. Yep.
Kyle (53:44.435)
Yeah.
Everybody wants to win a boat until they win it. Then they're upset that they won a boat.
Brian Bashore (53:49.738)
Yep. And they're like, yeah, now I'm sitting on this thing and I got taxes coveted, blah, blah, blah. And storage and hauling it home.
Kyle (53:56.743)
Would it be awesome to have a boat to give away to the champion at the championship? Absolutely, because then there's more dollars somewhere else, right? Because then obviously you get to use that dollar, the dollar value of that boat. So if it happens, it happens. I would always like to keep first place in a qualifier or the opens as cash, just for that point of difference than the other leagues is of getting cash.
Again, money talks.
Brian Bashore (54:27.73)
AOI, so you got angular year points to get you in the championship. Is that anything else with it or is that basically the only benefit of it?
Kyle (54:35.261)
That's the benefit of it. Yep. There's, there's no Angular of the Year payout. We'll probably do some recognition and trophy type thing for Angular of the Year because they should, there should be something for that. In the, in the future, I could see that being entry fees paid for the following year type thing. Year one, we didn't write anything in just because of the unknown. And likely year two, there, there won't be either, but maybe there will, maybe there will be, maybe somebody will come step up and be like, Hey, we need to.
We want to be the AOI. Correct, correct. Yep. And you know, like I said, we're open to all of it.
Brian Bashore (55:06.508)
Maybe that boat sponsor steps up and says, Hey, here's a boat.
Brian Bashore (55:14.136)
That's what a lot of people have to understand that, you know, and I had Brett King on here. talked about him next is that there's so many, there's so many unknowns when you start something. Here's everything is based off hypotheticals and where we want to be because it's your business plan and Keller's been in business and his dad, James, they know what they're doing and you guys know what you're doing, but there's just so many things you don't know when you're dealing with people and signing up and economy and all the, all the variables.
Kyle (55:22.877)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle (55:36.295)
Yeah. And that's, that's the hard part too, is like, there's people that just don't understand that. Like, yeah, we, we would love to have this money to give away at every event and guarantee it. We would love to, if the money was there, we would, but it is unfortunately unlike PWS in the past or head to head in the past in general. Only difference to this one is head to head finally taking some money to help with our expenses. That's, that's the only difference.
Brian Bashore (55:42.638)
All right.
Kyle (56:05.609)
really financial wise and we're not PWS. added a hundred and what was it? A hundred and forty thousand or a hundred twenty thousand dollars into the payout. The championship was fully funded by Brian Keller. Um, it wasn't, wasn't paid for by, by the anglers at all. They earned their way there and that, that money was funded by the killers. So now it's angler funded.
Brian Bashore (56:18.478)
Right. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (56:30.71)
Yeah, I don't, people, there's a lot of term is to come and go. And that's really why is because you're, you're hoping on this and then that, doesn't happen. And to make money, you got to spend money type, you know, theory and all that, all that jazz, but it's also a huge risk. So, I mean, you guys jumping into doing it as the anglers need to appreciate all these circuits come into the table and you don't have wire room ring group. don't own, you know, this massive clump tree of box doors to.
Kyle (56:37.257)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle (56:42.505)
Just.
Kyle (56:53.576)
Right?
Brian Bashore (56:59.65)
to help fund this stuff, but it all has to make sense on the back end and on paper. Everybody wants this. And the only way to get that guaranteed a hundred thousand is if you have a $400,000 sponsor show up that says, boom, here you go. We got it. You know, and you're going to give us all this. Obviously it's, it's got to work out for them, but people don't understand that's easier said than done. Come by that kind of money, getting people to cut loose with it is not easy.
Kyle (57:00.105)
Correct. Yep.
Kyle (57:10.045)
Right. Yep.
Kyle (57:19.793)
Right. Well, it's not going to chances are it's not going to be an endemic. It's not going to be somebody from the industry. It's going to be a non endemic somewhere, insurance company, or I mean, it should be an insurance company for as much as all them insurance companies make on all of us. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's going to come from a non endemic that type of money. It's not going to, know, I think it's kind of proven.
Brian Bashore (57:26.254)
All right.
Brian Bashore (57:33.11)
Alright.
Brian Bashore (57:42.979)
Yeah, it's not Berkeley. It's not Rapala. I mean, it's Marathon tires on Bass. It's progressive angler of the year. There's a reason it's those kinds of companies and not the Berkeleys, the whoever, know, the Rapala type brands. Not that they don't have the money, but they, they have a different place to take it. And, we need them to give their money to their anglers so their anglers can fish it.
Kyle (57:47.656)
Yeah.
Kyle (57:53.502)
Yep.
Kyle (57:59.965)
Right.
Kyle (58:06.439)
Yeah, you know, it's funny with the PWS, you know, I'll talk a little bit about the why that went away is, and I don't know that we ever came out and talked about this publicly, but, it was dollars and cents, right? We were fully funding it 100 % out of our pocket. the sponsorships we did have for that first year were awesome. we were very appreciative to have every one of them. we feel like they got it. Everything they were given, they were told they were going to get plus some.
Brian Bashore (58:06.748)
Yeah.
Kyle (58:36.421)
Advertising wise on, you know, when we were talking for year two, it was not just one of them, but two of them, the two biggest sponsors were you need to double our sales and X market for us to give you any more than we gave you this year. Well, that's impossible. Like it's just not, it's not a possible feat. Like I can't, I can't double sales of a bait in the country and guarantee that that's just not a thing.
Brian Bashore (58:41.386)
It was not just one of them, but two of them, the two biggest sponsors were, you need to double our sales in X market for us to give you any more than we gave you the issue.
Yeah, you can't guarantee that. I can give you double the exposure, but it doesn't mean it's going to equate to sales.
Kyle (59:09.499)
Right. Like I can, I can bring the horse down to the water and give it the option, but it's got to drink, right? It's on its own. It's got to do it. And, know, the unrealistic expectation of some of them sponsors is why I kind of say so many times that we're self-sufficient. Like we're not going to be reliant on them sponsors. And it's actually pretty comfortable for me to have to be like, okay, if they come, they come. If they don't cool, we need X amount of anglers and it's self-sufficient and
We move on and keep growing with the anglers, you know, and the sponsors are going to come. It's going to happen. it's just a matter of if, if one sponsor would come and have all these demands and have this big long list of things, like we want you to change X, change this, change that. We'll have the ability to be like, yeah, that just doesn't work for us in our, in our anglers. So we're just going to pass.
Brian Bashore (01:00:01.419)
If you build it, they will come, but the anglers have to come, come first. That's how many tournament organization has to be. Cause if you don't have the anglers, you don't have a tournament. So.
Kyle (01:00:03.369)
That's right. That's right. That's right.
And that's where our focus is, is, you know, on the anglers building that customer base, giving them, giving the anglers a place they want to be. And without them, it ain't going to happen. So.
Brian Bashore (01:00:22.88)
I love it. and you do have a noticed in your rules. You'll fish two days. No matter you're going to have the days you got the blow days you got, basically it's a three day practice Friday, Saturday, Sunday, tournaments for Monday, Tuesday.
Kyle (01:00:31.261)
Yeah.
Yep, We're going to fish no matter what. We're going to build them days in right. Obviously if there's a three day storm or four day storm or something's happening or you know some natural disaster in that area, obviously will we will look at postponing, canceling, postponing and moving it somewhere else in the fact we have to cancel. Obviously we will do our best to have. Another event to fill that one in. I just.
And this, think my reasoning for that, it's a lot of, a lot of BS on our side to have to do that. But the anglers deserve it, right? Like you guys are coming to practice them for three days, driving from all over the country, fishing for X amount of days. You're planning to do that. You took your vacation, you spent the money, you committed the money. We need to commit to give you guys that platform for that amount of days. So that's what we're doing.
Brian Bashore (01:01:09.358)
The angler deserves it. You guys are coming to practice for three days.
Brian Bashore (01:01:29.533)
Nope, that's good. mean in some of those bodies water Green Bay It's usually a really good opportunity missy periwary pretty safe. It can blow pretty good and you can still fish there Devils can get pretty gnarly. I mean anyplace can I'm relaxed I haven't been here but that's just a big bowl or big round lake so I'm
Kyle (01:01:46.025)
It can get ugly too.
Brian Bashore (01:01:46.817)
I'm sure it gets ripping and get ripping across there at Detroit River. wouldn't think so, but the only time I've been there, we had a blow day. So when it blew up, right? Yeah. If it blew upstream and it injected all of them and makes it muddy. So gotta love the wind.
Kyle (01:01:53.801)
Yep, they stack up if the wind's right.
Kyle (01:02:01.639)
Yep. Yeah. And safety is always, I mean, for any tournament organization, it's there. It's 100 % in their mind. it's angler safety has got to be the focus. And if that means a day gets shortened because of safety, then that's, that's what it is. The anglers will, I would rather fish a shortened day than not fish at all.
Brian Bashore (01:02:23.886)
Sure. You have the points question on there. So they started at 300, but they kind of spread out as it goes down. How'd you come up with that point system?
Kyle (01:02:34.217)
You're going to love it. It's back. It's the Bassmaster Elite Series point system. 100%. It works. Um, and I beat my head against the wall at points, right? Like I, I had to talk to a couple of guys are like, well, just do a 301 point system. done with it? Well, I started looking at all these different tournament organizations have been around for years and years and years. And there has not been a runaway angler of the year in the Bassmaster Elite Series for a long time. Um, you have to earn it.
Brian Bashore (01:02:35.79)
Okay.
Is it? Alright, so it works!
Kyle (01:03:03.657)
It's typically within two events is where it's wrapped up. In the last few years, it was the last event. This year was the last day of the last event before they knew. So it works. They only go down to 100. So I extended it down to 125 on their same plan.
Brian Bashore (01:03:12.76)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:03:18.232)
They only go down.
Brian Bashore (01:03:26.062)
And if you don't have, let's say you only get hundred boats, so you have the last spots of a hundred points, but basically it's U0, you get 10 points lower than that, less than that angler.
Kyle (01:03:35.283)
You get 10. Yeah. Yep. That's kind of the standard there.
Brian Bashore (01:03:40.426)
where lot of them are zero is a zero or some will give you a
Kyle (01:03:42.759)
you just get a zero. Yeah. I think you should get something for showing up at least right. If you launch your boat and go go play if you pay and don't launch your boat, you're getting zero points. And it does not and I should probably just put that in the rules that you can't just pay for the event. To qualify for the championship, you would actually have to come launch your boat if you want to pay.
Brian Bashore (01:03:45.91)
for showing up. Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:04:00.281)
Like a person out. Right.
Yep. Whether you go out driving circles and load it back up, that's up to you, but you got to, you got to go through takeoff. Right.
Kyle (01:04:07.421)
Don't care. Yep. Yep. You go through takeoff at least one of the days. cause if say Guy wins, wins round one, he doesn't want to go to the next ones. Well, that's not really fair for him to just pay his entry fees and then not be there. it's just, that's just letting the jack potters, run away, right? Like at least you got to come launch your boat to get points.
Brian Bashore (01:04:25.538)
Yep. And it makes no sense financially why you would do that or why would you, anybody who's competing in a tournament because they want to fish tournaments, you know, right.
Kyle (01:04:36.841)
Well, it's because they want to beat you. I want to beat everybody there. It's not about the money. None of us do it for the money. The money is just just the bonus part of it.
Brian Bashore (01:04:41.262)
Right, right. So it'd be hard pressed to see a guy just launching and come back, but the weather may be horrible. And then it may be like, I'm not, I'm good. mean, I'm not going to go, but myself and my equipment through that. I'm out of here. know, that could, all right. I can understand that, but some of these people must be pretty well off though, to do that kind of stuff. And the rest of us.
Kyle (01:04:53.543)
Yeah, definitely that could happen for sure.
Kyle (01:05:03.291)
or they're just fully mad at their money, one or the other.
Brian Bashore (01:05:06.614)
Yeah, yeah, they got some of that, a few money coming at their, in their disposal. So what else did anything else we didn't cover? think I got my long list of questions for you answered here.
Kyle (01:05:20.349)
think we got the majority of it. I just want people to realize that we are committed to this. Like I understand that we ran the PWS for one year and it went away and just people need to understand that we learned from that. Our focus was wrong then. Our focus was on different things. It wasn't on the anglers. At the time I felt like I was personally, but as a whole we weren't.
Anybody that fishes tournaments that I run, they understand that I gave a crap about the anglers and I will always listen and take everybody's opinion and, you know, and take it back. doesn't mean I'm going to listen to it. doesn't mean it's going to be because you say so I'm going to do that. But we learned so much from the PWS that we are committed to this. Like we want this to work. Brian and Jim and all of us, everybody behind the scenes, we are
Brian Bashore (01:05:59.087)
I'm going to listen to it. doesn't mean it's going to be because you say so I'm going to do that. But we learned so much from the PWS that we are committed to this. We want this to work. Brian and Jim and everybody behind the scenes, we are in this for the long haul. We want this to be a long-term thing. not doing like in the past, we had all these contracts, blah, blah, blah. not doing any of that anymore.
Kyle (01:06:15.625)
in this for the long haul. want this to be a long-term thing. We're not doing like in the past, we had all these contracts and blah, blah, blah. We're not doing any of that anymore. It's here's the platform coming fish with us. We want you to be here. Here's the reasons why we want you to be with us. A hundred thousand of them, right? Coming, coming win a hundred grand and you know, spend your time with us. And I guarantee you, I'm going to be fair. There's not going to be any gray area. If somebody needs to be DQ or, you know, penalized in some way it's going to happen.
Brian Bashore (01:06:24.174)
Here's the platform for coming fish with us. We want you to be here. Here's the reason why we want you to be with us. A hundred thousand of them, right? Come and win a hundred grand and spend your time with us. I guarantee I'm going to be fair. I'm going be in a gray area. If somebody needs to be cute or penalized in some way, it's going to happen. It's not a matter of who you are or what you bring.
Kyle (01:06:44.457)
It's not a matter of who you are or what you bring. If you pay us a million dollars a year and you're fishing and you do something wrong, I'm going to depue you.
Brian Bashore (01:06:53.678)
Which is huge for the anglers. I think that's a, you can contribute a lot of Lake Erie walleye trail success to the tournament director. You can contribute it to yours. The anglers want the minimal. There's always going to be gray, but the least amount of gray is, and I know Kelman's been doing the best he can with that. But when you have a hierarchy and so many people that actually make the rules versus the person that gets to endorse it, where in your case, it's it. You got to answer to Brian probably, but I'm sure he said.
Kyle (01:07:00.455)
Yeah, absolutely.
Kyle (01:07:12.873)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:07:24.098)
Kyle, it's, there you go. It's your call. You make all the calls. So there's no.
Kyle (01:07:25.011)
Yeah, here you go. Yeah, yeah, he's never gonna step over me unless it's a business safety thing or something that I'm not thinking about. and it's, I'm excited for it, to be honest. Like I've been kind of waiting since 21 to get back into this and see where this can go because I feel like we got unfinished business within the industry of we can do this, we can do it better than we did in the PWS.
Brian Bashore (01:07:32.75)
All right.
Kyle (01:07:55.225)
I feel like we can bring just as much value, if not more, for the anglers as other circuits. And it's different, right? It's not the same old cookie cutter deal.
Brian Bashore (01:08:09.07)
And we'll see how much crossover there is. can think of a few anglers. know we'll finish all of them or as many of them as they can. I'm sure what you keep emphasizing people have to understand. It's your first year, there's going to be growing pains, lessons learned. A lot of people are going to sit back, watch after one tournament. They'll be like, damn it. I wish I would have got in it because it all is what it was supposed to be or what I hoped it would be. You know, and then maybe they'll jump in the other ones obviously and do that. That just means you're not going to make the championship, but that's okay. You know, it's get your feet wet.
Kyle (01:08:37.021)
Right, you still have a chance to win $300,000 potentially, right?
Brian Bashore (01:08:41.334)
Right. Yeah. Jump in when you can. So, you guys have the addition of the physics.com or what's the TV channel or how's that tie in or partnered?
Kyle (01:08:52.649)
So it's fixed TV, P-H-Y-X. All of our live streams are still gonna go to fix. For the leagues this year, we did send them to YouTube as well. We're gonna continue to do that as well. That is our platform. We own it. It's easy for us to send everything to it. We control it. The reason fix came about was, I don't know if you remember the final day of the PWS championship, we got booted off of Facebook because...
Brian Bashore (01:08:54.84)
Fix.
Kyle (01:09:21.085)
Billiard company in Canada said that we're stealing their likeness or whatever So that's where fix came from. I know there's a lot people that's so hard to do it's it's I Don't know It's it's pretty easy and if you're not if you don't want to log in the fix We will be on YouTube again like we were this year. We didn't have any problem with it there are some restrictions from YouTube and you know that
Brian Bashore (01:09:33.098)
It's not hard to do. I've watched your head to head on it. It's not hard to do. You just go to the page and there it is and click the button.
Brian Bashore (01:09:49.144)
Hmm.
Kyle (01:09:50.729)
The thing we like about Fix is we fully control it. If somebody says, there are we can control that. Like we're not, we're not gonna, you know, get kicked off and unmonetized because somebody had a two minute stretch and sore three times, you know, or had music in the background.
Brian Bashore (01:10:05.122)
Yeah. Yeah, that the Facebook stuff's pretty tricky. And once again, I think a lot of people don't understand how all that works. And if you're not paying, yes, it's a free live stream to a point, but if you're getting a lot of views, a lot of this and Facebook's not seeing money coming their way from it, even though, you know, alive, they can't really interrupt with ads, but you know, they're going to run them on the side. They're going to boot you off until you and make you pay.
Kyle (01:10:28.615)
You Brian Brian told told us this that year. He was at some point Everybody's gonna be behind the paywall the NFL the NBA Everything well, you saw it the playoffs this year for the baseball if you didn't have TBS or FS one you weren't watching the playoffs and Then we're all through a paywall. You have to buy a subscription to get that NFL's on Prime I mean you have to watch that game. You have to have crime
And that's way it's Bassmaster is missing the boat big time. Well, now they're on Roku. You know, they did the ESPN thing. They did all these free streams at some point. It's going to be pay to watch. It's just what it's going to be. And that would help immensely with some expenses for things too. know, like we tried having fixed behind a paywall and people lost their minds. What do you mean I got to pay to watch fishing? Well,
Brian Bashore (01:10:59.47)
Prime, Peacock, NFL plus. mean, yeah, you can't.
Brian Bashore (01:11:07.79)
They're on Roku,
Brian Bashore (01:11:23.783)
What do mean I gotta pay to watch fishing?
Kyle (01:11:28.199)
You're paying to learn right? So if you go to YouTube and you want to do somebody's patreon you got to pay to learn that information right? It's so at some point everything's gonna be that way and for now you can watch it free on fix or on YouTube and At some point it's not gonna be that not saying this year next year But just in general anything you want to watch is gonna be you have to pay for it
Brian Bashore (01:11:31.724)
Right.
Brian Bashore (01:11:46.622)
this year or next year but
Yeah. You know, if it's, it's minimal, but that adds up and you start talking, you know, hundreds of thousands of, of users, even tens of thousands of users. But the fixes, I mean, it's, it's the right thing to do. gives you more control, gives you platforms for your advertising where you can do production type stuff and banner ads and, put all that out there, which you can't, you can't do as easily, I should say on a YouTube live anyway. Well, yeah, control is key and these are your app.
Kyle (01:12:16.211)
Right.
Kyle (01:12:19.837)
It is.
Brian Bashore (01:12:20.77)
These are your assets that you are creating.
Kyle (01:12:23.325)
Definitely, yep.
Brian Bashore (01:12:25.134)
Get that a lot of time. People ask about things. Well, you know, I'm like, cause Hey, just cause it's on the internet. Doesn't mean it's free. I mean, I get it. You steal people's photos and do whatever. I'm like, eh, okay. There's still laws behind that. you go to the website and you cut and paste some of his recipe. I'm like the bottom of that website says copyright. So that isn't really how that works. That person's letting you go ahead and use it. But if you put it in your magazine or whatever, and you're trying to monetize it, I'm like,
Kyle (01:12:33.213)
Yep, it should be.
Brian Bashore (01:12:54.04)
That's copyright violation people. So.
Kyle (01:12:55.635)
Yep. Yeah. And that's our thing. We went to PWS and we had all the, had a photographer at each event and somebody answers were like, well, you're taking pictures. I'm paying to be here. Like, well, you're not paying a photographer. You can buy the pictures for him. We're good with that. Why should we just give you a lot of people forget about the business side of things. Right. And, yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:13:09.953)
Right.
This is, yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:13:18.126)
And there's a hell of a lot to it, especially when you start mixing in media. And I mean, the problem in the walleye world is it's theoretically kind of far behind all that. Um, but people don't, there's a, mean, Cardenas can tell you how much, how much work and effort there is involved with that. Cardenas is great to say, no, Hey, I got a couple of photos. Hey, you know, text him over to me or whatever. He's like, yeah, I have them. You can do whatever. Um, but not everybody's like that. And I get it. I always, there was a good quote. heard it once somewhere. It was like,
Kyle (01:13:37.171)
Sure.
Kyle (01:13:41.961)
Alright.
Brian Bashore (01:13:46.735)
Da Vinci or, you know, some famous artists is sitting at the bar and, you know, doodling something on a napkin and draws this really cool picture on a napkin. And some lady walks up like, Oh, that's, you know, that's, that's super cool. Can I have that? It's like, yeah, for $5,000. You know, and then he's like, it took you five minutes. He's like, no, it took me a lifetime to get that skill to, to, create that. And that's a lot of hours, you know, and it's like,
Exactly. There's a skillset behind all of those things, whether it's photography, whether it's just doing a live stream or whatever the case is that there's value with that. think a lot of the anglers need to put a little bit more value on their own self and their stuff instead of doing so much for free, which dilutes the market. Yeah.
Kyle (01:14:28.285)
Yep. Patch pirates. I got a funny story about that quick, Brian. When we first started the PWS, we had in the rules that you anglers had to prove just a letter or a text email, whatever, that every sponsor was a valid sponsor because we're paying for the live stream for you to be on. We want to make sure that you're not just wearing that St. Croix hat because you have St. Croix rods and they're actually paying you.
Right. Or we didn't care if you got a 10 % discount. We didn't care what the monetized side of it was. We just wanted people to be legit. you would swear that we burnt down their mother's house. It was.
Brian Bashore (01:15:01.367)
Alright.
Brian Bashore (01:15:10.314)
Yep. Yep. I know. Cause I think Jim and I used to be pretty good about that when you got jerseys through them was all right, we'll send us verify all these, you know, and cause you could, they would have them all on file or you people will it's on the internet. They can grab a logo, cut, chase it, put it in the vector PNG it, change it, send it in. But, I don't know, I think I don't, I think I get mine at Jim and I still, but they haven't asked for that in years, but they were like, all right, these are cool. But
Kyle (01:15:20.382)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:15:37.825)
And it was that show forward, cut and paste an email or it's still, it's not like it's hard to make up all those documents nowadays if you're good, but at least they asked and you had to, they had to validate it. But yeah, you're right. I think if you ask a lot of these people, and I think we've seen some of that with some of these people that have been exposed for not doing good in tournaments on legal things where, you're representing that company. That company comes out and says the hell if they are, they are not on our pro staff or an ambassador or whatever. I don't know where they got approval to put that on their Jersey, but.
Kyle (01:15:54.921)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle (01:16:00.521)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:16:07.202)
That they are not affiliated with us. Well, that's the right, the right thing to do. Obviously you can't police that on the open circuit with a hundred and some, some people, but, you, but you can come championship time if you're live streaming stuff.
Kyle (01:16:15.153)
Right. Right.
Kyle (01:16:19.753)
People they lost some of the guys I shouldn't say all of them somewhere like yeah, whatever here it is Some guys just lost their minds like I'm not showing you that then you're gonna see how much I'm getting from them. We don't care We don't care about that
Brian Bashore (01:16:30.658)
Just give me the, you can blank out, redact all the rest in the middle. Just give me the letterhead and the signatures or give me something of it.
Kyle (01:16:36.03)
No.
Well, you know better than me probably if you have a sponsor, you have no problem saying, hey, Bob, need proof of this. Can you send me over an email? Pretty simple. Most sponsors deals, it's a personal relationship of some sort.
Brian Bashore (01:16:46.914)
Yup. Yup.
Brian Bashore (01:16:53.07)
Yeah, if you asked me that, would probably put all of them on an email and CC you to it and say, reply to this saying, yep, good to go. We're all done. Nobody needs a scan contracts or whatever. And cause cause even the company's like, no, that contracts, we don't want nobody else to see it. Right. We don't, nobody else know that we're giving you a discount or 10 bucks or 10,000 bucks.
Kyle (01:16:59.774)
Yep.
Kyle (01:17:05.127)
Yeah, you're it.
Kyle (01:17:11.625)
Yep. And like you said, you can redact it. So yeah, I'm excited for the year, man. I'm excited to see this, this, this week, you know, the week we announced here is, you know, the good, the bad, the ugly. I've been watching all the Facebook comments and there's really only been one that kind of stuck in my craw a little bit. And as a guy thought that somebody from the PDPWS think it paid and that was
Brian Bashore (01:17:17.006)
Yeah. Man.
Brian Bashore (01:17:35.886)
Yeah, I saw that dude.
Kyle (01:17:36.743)
that was wrong. Like I actually reached out to that guy and said, Hey man, did you, not trying to start arguing with you, but did you hear this from somebody or where did this come from? Because that's not us. Like for one, the Keller family has a reputation. They're not going to not pay somebody that something that was old, right? And never have never will. And two, I know I approved the checks. Like everybody got the money's gone. Like all the checks were, were spoken for, but the guy replied and it was a good conversation. He's like, no, I just,
Brian Bashore (01:17:52.491)
in.
Brian Bashore (01:17:57.943)
Right.
Kyle (01:18:06.107)
I thought there was something else there and it was, there's about the only one that's been stuck in my craw, but some of it's pretty entertaining. Like you sit down and, and yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:18:09.326)
keyboard.
Brian Bashore (01:18:14.254)
That they're haters no matter what. And everybody hates it. I always tell them, get them on my stuff and have for years. And it's I'm like, and I just kind of have a zero policy BS thing. If you hate negative, whatever you're just delete block out of there. There's no reply there. You know why I forever be like, Oh no, get into it with them. I'm like, Nope. They're just zero. I'm just done. You're just banned. Don't ever want you out here. I get it. You can monetize it and keep the algorithm working, but I'm just, Nope. It's zero because you're going to, there's just no.
Kyle (01:18:33.811)
Yeah.
Kyle (01:18:43.049)
Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of times I'll just type it all out and then delete it all. Like get it off my chest. If I hit enter, you're gonna get it. Nope, I deleted it.
Brian Bashore (01:18:43.426)
We have enough crap in this world of negativity, you know, and hate.
Yeah. yeah. Yup. Same thing. I'm on a ton of platform. I read stuff and same thing. I'll start to respond and I'm like, Nope. Internet saves things forever. I'm not planning on having a political run ever, but I'm like, that would come up.
Kyle (01:19:01.875)
Yeah. It's Ben.
Yeah, it's been, it's been good. Like there's, there's been questions and people bringing things up and I want to hear it all. So if somebody has something that they have a question on it you haven't seen or heard the answer on yet, feel free to reach out. And, um, there's a guy that called me last night. I'm going to call him back as soon as we're done here today. And he has some questions and talk about it see where it goes. So.
Brian Bashore (01:19:28.542)
All right. Well, this is great. Like I said, competition breeds competition. It's it where there's more clarity out there and there's going to be more common and you're going to make adjustments as you go. But it wins the registrations. When can people start signing up January, February, something like that.
Kyle (01:19:42.665)
We're going to do it soon. I'm waiting to hear back from fish donkey. We've been in contact about having them available for people if they want to pay with a credit card. We used to have the ability with the real shot. Obviously we don't have that anymore, so we're going to do checks to us directly. Or if you do want to pay with a credit card, we want to give you that option. So I'm working that out right now with with fish donkey and it should be soon. I would think by no later than December. You know, I might even wait till after the.
Brian Bashore (01:19:55.886)
Alright.
Kyle (01:20:12.285)
The holidays are over. Just so people don't feel pressured to get into it. yeah, with Bonnie, yep.
Brian Bashore (01:20:17.964)
You working with Bonnie over there at fish donkey? Yeah. She's super quick and easy to, mean, I've been in a tournament and been like, Hey, something's not working at all. So I'm like, all right, we're good. Thanks. You know, and it's, and it, and she is on it. So yeah.
Kyle (01:20:23.773)
Yeah, yeah, she's been great.
Kyle (01:20:29.937)
Yep. The issue is just double checking the fees for us just because obviously there's going to be a fee if somebody wants to use your credit card and get that how the process is going to work for us to get people a code to go to the because they're anglers are going to have to go to fishnock you to register, but I'll give them a code if they paid us to to get on there so.
Brian Bashore (01:20:47.384)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:20:53.048)
So with that, so it's usually like 10 bucks per angler. So they got to obviously have to download the fish donkey app and then pay whatever fee it is. I assume. Okay.
Kyle (01:20:58.781)
Yep. Yep. That $10, I believe it's $10. Yeah, the anglers will pay that as well. We would love to cover it. just, again, it's a real thin line when...
Brian Bashore (01:21:04.61)
Yeah, we paid 10.
Brian Bashore (01:21:14.146)
Yep. We had a small league, like 20 teams. had a $200 sponsor and I just that went to fish donkey. So I'm like, all right, first 20 guys to sign up people join the league later. They got to pay the 10 bucks. You know? So they were all like, yep. And I'm like, do it now. So they all logged in and they renewed their account real quick. I'm like, you know, because then there was guys from the league that didn't fish the second year, but I'm like, they're still in there or they went in because they wanted to watch, but I had to kick them out. Cause I'm like, you're taking up somebody's free spot. You know, once I.
Kyle (01:21:17.362)
Yeah.
Awesome.
Kyle (01:21:25.641)
They gotta pay, yeah, that's a good idea.
Brian Bashore (01:21:43.265)
I noticed it, there was names, the guys that never showed up. I'm like, Nope, delete, delete, delete, you know, those profiles out of there. that's, that's not fair to the guys that are paying to fish every night in league. So, so if sponsors are listening, that's a great place to go. Cause it, the fish, knock the apps gives, gives you a platform to where you can list those sponsors and all that in there. So every time they're in the app, they can see all that information as well. So it's not just head to head.
Kyle (01:21:54.515)
Yeah,
Yeah.
Kyle (01:22:04.559)
see it. Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:22:08.92)
There's a little fish donkey promotional aspect to it there. Then fish donkey does a bunch of emails and all sorts of stuff with your league. And on this one being probably the one of the biggest leagues they'll have in it. I'm sure they're, they're going to up their game pretty good. So.
Kyle (01:22:22.141)
Yeah, they're excited. They're excited to have us. I actually got reached out to by another company that does an app. I haven't even looked into it yet. I'm definitely going to, but Fish Donkey has a... Yeah, yep. So if, you know, right now is Fish Donkey is where we're rolling. If that changes, it changes. But as of 9-26 on the 29th of October, that's where we're at.
Brian Bashore (01:22:32.814)
Colorado All Eye Series 1, I'm sure.
Brian Bashore (01:22:45.814)
Yep. They've proven it works. The other one I've talked to those guys as well. And I think it works fine for what they're doing and stuff, but it's, I don't think it's quite to the technical level, that the fish knock is up, but that's like anything. You got a bigger company with bigger cap, more money behind something they can do. They're going to be ahead of the game all the time. And maybe this other one's a great little platform for, for the league nights or the local tournament and stuff like that. And it works, works good. But I think those guys are,
Kyle (01:23:05.363)
Yeah. Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:23:14.85)
They're onto something, they're building something and it's going to continue to grow as well. And you'll probably see it pop up more. AIM goes away from that and creates their own thing so that they're, they try to eliminate a lot of gray and have it vary and it works for them. They don't have to worry about the cell service loads and all that kind of stuff. But you know, we're getting pretty good and I would imagine we're to see a lot of Starlink around for all of our cell phones here real soon. And none of this is ever going to be a problem for anybody.
Kyle (01:23:37.843)
Yeah.
Once Elon gets his cell phone down, we're all going to be styling.
Brian Bashore (01:23:45.294)
Yep, and we'll be paying 10 bucks a month, you know, instead of 200 for all these cell phones and he's going to he might just give it to everybody and be like, this is dumb.
Kyle (01:23:47.902)
Yeah.
Kyle (01:23:52.093)
Hey, I'll have to go how much more money I'll have to spend on fish and tackle then.
Brian Bashore (01:23:55.871)
Exactly. mean, we all, everybody just started getting Starlink. mean, Starlink has come down considerably in price. So, and I, and I know that he's working on the cell phone, cell service type stuff too. So time will tell, we'll see. So nonetheless, awesome. Looking forward to this. This is another positive move in the walleye world. Great things happening all around for all the circuits. want everybody to succeed. Big market out there. Everybody sign up whichever one you want to go to.
Kyle (01:24:01.693)
Yeah, yep.
Kyle (01:24:10.473)
That's right.
Brian Bashore (01:24:25.626)
I I'm behind you on this. love what you're doing. this is, this is going to be cool. gotta, I gotta figure out which circuit I fish for travel and travel and money. I wish, you know, I didn't fish many this year cause I they've done so crappy in the past. I'm like, I don't get paid vacation as a fishing guide. So those week or now two weeks or whatever off bucks like that's. That's a, you better come home with a check. So, you know, and, and, I like checks, not having to, I mean, I'd be happy to come home with a boat. got to sell too, but.
Kyle (01:24:33.235)
Well, you can fish them both.
Kyle (01:24:48.073)
That's right.
Brian Bashore (01:24:55.864)
Boy, the cash is a little easier to deal with. So it's, it's a lot of the bank likes that as well. I don't have to ensure the cash. So while it, while it sits there, there's advantages, advantages both ways, you know, every which way. So, there's no doubt about it. So, all right. Well, thank you for coming on Kyle and breaking this down. usually I do a couple of these a month. This one we're going to get out, I think right away, cause help the questions on your behalf and just.
Kyle (01:24:58.151)
Yes it is, yes it is.
Kyle (01:25:10.387)
Yes, sir.
Brian Bashore (01:25:24.642)
The sooner you get the news out on all the stuff, the better. everybody wants to know. now you know, folks. So thanks for tuning in. So there's another episode of real talk fishing with no limits. Talking to Kyle Carpenter with head to head pro walleye circuit. Go check it out at head to head. Is it head to head.com H two H H two H fishing.com. I'll put Kyle's information down below on the videos. you can find this over on YouTube, the walleye guys, Facebook page and.
Kyle (01:25:24.841)
Yeah, we appreciate that.
Kyle (01:25:43.408)
H2Hfishing.com
Brian Bashore (01:25:53.517)
a whole bunch of those Amazon, Spotify, Google, all those Apple podcast platforms, and you can listen in there. So thank you for tuning in and stay safe. We'll see you on the water.