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The hardest part of achieving a goal is starting. Being sendy means making courageous decisions to try something before you have all of the answers. This podcast will remind you of the remarkable life you are living and will give you new ideas to make your life more meaningful and exciting and give you courage to accomplish your goals by stopping the negative voices in your head and just sending it!
Becky Brouwer (00:00)
taking a risk to if you do something that's not right, because
we all have had that like as parents as spouses and being able to especially as a parent be able to look at that and be like
Mmm, I wish I would have done this different and not only do I wish I would have done this different But I actually owe this person an apology and being able to apologize to your kids I think is huge. I think it's yeah, totally because I think that they can see like hey number one My mom and dad are trying okay, so they're at least making an effort, right? And they realize they're gonna make mistakes too, but I think it's really important to model
Apology to our children
Becky Brouwer (00:47)
I'm Becky Brouwer and I'm a Sendy Mom. You're listening to the Sendy Mom Podcast.
Becky Brouwer (01:13)
Today I get to talk to my very good friend Amy Lucas. Amy is a mediator at Utah Dispute Resolutions. She finds a lot of satisfaction in helping people resolve conflict. I love talking to her about how she is able to get people to understand each other. She's great at listening and understanding people, including her own children. Amy loves Lake Powell and is an avid surfer girl. She organizes a book group and keeps up an incredible library of recommendations on Goodreads.
Check her out at Amy Lucas. She's rated 675 books. Her Instagram handle is Booknook75. She says she is risk averse, but I think she's
cautious physically. Although skiing behind a boat and riding a bike down any mountain trail and skiing down any mountain trail would seem risky to most women.
When it comes to friendships and relationships, she is one of the most sendy women I know. She continues to nurture relationships and has no fear of saying what is in her heart and mind, even if she doesn't agree with somebody. That makes Amy Lucas a sendy mom. Enjoy my chat with her today.
Becky Brouwer (02:21)
Well, welcome to the Sendy Mom podcast. I am really excited to have Amy Lucas with me today. She's one of my very good friends. We've known each other for a while. She actually bought my house nine years ago.
or something and moved into our neighborhood because I had moved down the street and I am so glad that we sold our house to her so that we could become really good friends. We've done some really fun, sendy things together and we're going to kind of talk about a few of those things and maybe get a little bit into our Lake Powell trips and things like that. We could kind of talk about that a little bit.
Well, and I told you before, listen to Miriam and to Marty's and like even though I love and know both of those women so well, like I really enjoyed like listening to your conversation. Yeah, it's good to like pop into somebody's life. Yeah, right. Understand them. So what is it? What do you think it means to be a Sendy mom? Just being brave and maybe
being willing to step outside of your comfort zone and do things that are fun and exciting and could be interesting to your kids and stuff too and just teaching them how to
be brave in the world that we live in, guess. Yeah. Yeah. We've got to take risks and then we have to be resilient when things don't go exactly how we plan. And so we have to teach our children to be able to handle those kinds of things as well. So thank you. Yeah, that's great. So tell me a little bit about yourself. You're growing up family and the family that you live in now. Okay. So I, my family of origin, I'm the oldest of six kids and I have
three sisters and two brothers. I grew up in Colorado. always had, I mean my parents always made sure that we had all the things that we needed. I didn't feel like we grew up in lack at all, but we didn't have lots of extra things either, you know?
Some of the things that I feel like you know that my husband I can provide for our kids now are things and opportunities that I wouldn't have had as a child just because my parents were not in the same like kind of socioeconomic Yeah, yeah, but I don't know that never like Affected me as a child like my parents were both you know super involved and very loving and I felt like I always had all the things that I needed even when
there were some things that I would feel like, you know, might be hard to ask for this because I'm not sure if we have enough money for it. Like if I asked for it then and it was something that was possible, then I always got the things that you never felt like you lacked, right? You always had everything that you needed. I had things, plenty of things, not just things that I needed, but I also like things I wanted to, you know, so I didn't feel like, you know, like I was missing. Do you feel like you were encouraged to
take risks or to experiment with things or do you feel like it was more of guarded that you felt like you had more boundaries? I feel like I had more boundaries but I'm not sure if that is something that came from my parents or just because of who I was and how I am.
You know because like I had other siblings who tried like different sports or were interested in different things like that and I am Not very great. I'm a risk -averse person. Yeah, so I'm not very like I'm very cautious in my personality And so I feel like if I had said I want to try something my parents would have encouraged me But also my parents weren't saying like hey, would you like to try this and how would you think you would be?
interested in that. don't remember like
that being something that happened. And it could have been, but I just don't remember it. Because I was risk averse and I just probably was like, yeah, probably just more car or something.
You know if I'm being honest, I those kind of things scared me because I didn't think I was very good at it You know and so but also I never tried it either so I wouldn't have known but I just yeah There wasn't really any I don't do any sports I mean except for like, know our church had like church basketball and right volleyball Okay, and I would do those kind of things but And my mom was a real good example of being physically active like she swam laps for my entire life like yeah
mean, she would go like three times a week and swim laps, but I just never like. Well, and you're certainly active. Yeah, now I am for sure. But that didn't happen until later in life then. Yeah, not until much later actually. I didn't get into a good exercise program until after I had kids. Okay, and why was that? Like what spurred that on? Well, because I didn't like the way my body looked after I had children and I didn't like what the scale said. But like in the beginning, I mean, I was in my mid -twenties when I started having kids.
And so like for me it was like a means to an end like I did it until I like got back to the weight that I was before I had a baby and then I was like I'm done and then like being blessed with good metabolism I guess was a blessing but also a curse because I wasn't really motivated to do a whole bunch to take care of my body in that way and so it wasn't until after I had my third child that I was like, you know, hey actually working out
makes me feel good. It's not just to lose weight or to be at a weight that I want, but I actually feel healthy. I feel like I sleep better and all of these things that I probably knew intellectually, but just never had experience with putting into practice. It's really true. Once you practice it, once you do it, you have that experience and you feel the difference, that's when you are converted. Yeah, totally. You have to do it for a little while.
And then you're like, actually this does make a difference in my life. Yeah I'm just gonna continue to do this well and also we weren't in a place where I could like I'm gonna have young children to write you have a baby and then you have young children and so it's not like I could be like Going out to do all of this stuff adventuring when I had a child, right? and so by the time I had my third child I was 30 and we lived in a place and had a situation where I could we had a membership to a gym that had childcare and so then it was like
I actually really like this because it's a breakaway for my kids but also I'm working out and I feel good and I feel like I'm a better mom.
too. Sure. And so then I was able to explore lots of different classes and find things that like, hey, I like this. And it was my first time like doing a spin class and realizing I like that or, you know, I enjoy step and those kind of things, too. Yeah, well, then there's also the social aspect of that too, right? That you can go and be with people because that like, I think I read this book about depression, like overcoming depression, and some of some of the biggest things are exercise and community.
Being with people right and so that kind of helps toward that, you know, just help you to be more happy. Yeah, so that's great
when you're
to help your children to find a group of friends. Do you look at the kinds of activities that you put them into to help them to find some people that will be inspiring to them? I mean I think that that's a good consideration. I wouldn't say that I necessarily have gone looking for specific environments. It's more like the things that have been there have and that I feel like they would maybe be interested in are things that I feel like do have good kids in them.
like mountain biking. my middle child Marnie is a mountain biker and she got the family kind of into mountain biking. But I have my second daughter Brooke is very, I would say even more risk averse than I feel like I was in high school. And so like she will get on a bike, but she, that was not her thing. And it's like makes her nervous and stuff. I mean, she's better now that like when we first started trying to do those kinds of things as a family, it was definitely not in her comfort zone.
Marnie really liked it and they had, you know, had friends, you had a son who was mountain biking and we had other friends who had kids who were mountain biking and I knew they were good kids and she just really liked it and then...
My twins are four years younger than her and I just love the social aspect but also like I was motivated because of my lack of physical like experience of finding something I loved in high school to help my kids find something a little bit more. You know, I think sometimes you can have an experience growing up where you're like, really like the way my parents did this but I would like to do things different in this way that I feel like maybe could have been like would have maybe helped me or that I could help my kids. exactly.
So do you feel like you're growing up was in a safe environment that you felt like you had room to explore and to try new things? Yeah, I mean I had room but again I wouldn't say that I felt like I was super encouraged to do stuff but again I was risk -averse and I was scared of things a lot more than I am now. I mean like it would be interesting to go back and meet your younger self but like I was afraid of like what people would say about me or what people thought of me or
or losing friends or those kind of things. I was just kind of like, I'm good, I'm good where I'm at too. And so it's totally possible that my parents saw that and knew that about me and so didn't feel like pushing or making me try new things was gonna be maybe something that would be good for me.
I don't feel like I took risks very good until I was late, until later in my life, like even past college. Well, let's go there then. Let's talk about like things that you, you know, at times we talked about you, you know, starting to exercise, which is a big thing for a lot of young moms, you know, who are, you know, feeling the way, you know, that weight that comes on, you know, the physical weight, but also
you the mental weight that comes on with having a child and then having to figure out how to navigate life with a child and also you know being able to work out. But you know yeah maybe there's some other times in your life where you felt like you know you've you've been able to step out of your comfort zone maybe and and do something that was hard.
Well, mean mountain biking for myself was outside of my comfort zone for sure. Also, I mean because it's a little scary physically also, but also just because you're just kind of like, ooh, am I going to be bad at this?
Kind of a thing just if mine I mean I heard you say in one of the podcasts you already did about the fear of like Failure like the fear of failure and not being good at something. I feel like I got over that I felt like in high school and college a lot. I was afraid to fail I had a friend who was a really good example to me and she would take like one class like every Term that was something that she was just interested in you know like I she she knew how to play the piano, but she didn't know how to
take the organ or play the organ so she took an organ class and she bought the shoes and learned how to play the organ and she was interested in doing learning how to make stained glass and so she like took a stained glass art class and made some really beautiful things but see in my mind I was too afraid of taking those kind of classes to fail because I had a scholarship and I didn't want to fail a class you know and so
that made me really risk averse and it's sad actually. I mean I really wish that I would have like had taken more things that I was just interested in but I I learned from that life experience even though I didn't do that I encouraged my kids to do that. Well you know and on top of that it's not too late. for sure. know we're into our mid adult years I guess I'll say and there's still plenty of things to do so. Yeah totally.
Mean so mountain biking is one thing that you've kind of picked up Yeah later and you and are there other things
Yeah mediation though. mean, yes, that's what I was going to ask you about. yeah, how did you get into that and what how how are you enjoying it now? Yeah, so I was always interested
I was interested in it in college like when I was to the point where I was like, okay What am I gonna do with my degree? I looked into like some graduate programs in mediation, but I mean what was your degree in? Family science, okay, and I had a minor in business So, you know, but the way life happened like I married and you know I worked in HR for a while which I really loved that was a lot of people interfacing with and then when I got to the point where my children
and we're all gonna be in school, we had moved here. And I started looking to it again and realized at the state of Utah, had to have, in order to like do it through the courts, I had to have approved.
curriculum to be able to do the education piece and have that satisfied. And so I looked into a course at the U and they had a graduate certificate in conflict resolution. And so that was going to qualify for it. They had a lot of other things that I could have done that were shorter hours, but this felt more like, you know, a little more challenging, like would give them me a lot more information. And so that was kind of the route that I chose to go. And
And yeah, I mean so I'm a mediator for mostly family issues so like divorce child custody modifications those kind of things but actually like the skills that I learned in the conflict resolution program and practicing those communication skills and being able to like Learn how to sit with people who are in conflict was a skill set that I didn't have and I'm actually really
that I did because I've been in situations with family members and just like in the community and other things where you can see things are spinning and like being able to have somebody with the skill set to like, hey, let's like, and I feel like you on this. I feel like you have a really good ability to zoom out and zoom in and to be able to look at the big picture and say, okay, this is what we're really trying to accomplish with
with whatever this conflict is. And then also to be able to zoom in on the details and say, hey, we need to look at this person's emotions and this person's feelings. But we also need to be able to solve the problem for the whole group. And this is how we're gonna do it.
I think a lot of times to like people just appreciate like having being able to Feel heard right? Yes, and that's a lot of what I think I mean that happens in a mediation but also just like you know in a family conflict or and something else where you I mean it is a skill set to be able to say like hey I can hear what you're saying or I understand your perspective and being able to say things like
tell me about this or tell me about you know how giving people the opportunity to hear
how they came to think the way they think or what happened to them and be able to express that. And so you can have understanding right? Yeah, there's that I have this like poster in my bathroom that says listen to understand and it is listening takes practice right because a lot of people will hear what somebody else is saying and in their mind are not really listening because they're figuring out what their response to that is going to be. And so
If you listen to like really understand what the person is saying, then you have a different curiosity of the kind of questions and where you're going to go next instead of feeling like I have to defend my position or you know what I'm saying? It's totally different conversation. Yeah, because it becomes all about you. And so if you can look at it as an intercourse between the two people and how you're able to learn from each other. Yeah. And I love the word curiosity.
and you've done that with me before. You've actually brought out things from when we've talked before where I'm able to understand myself better, you know, by saying you sound very stressed. Am I stressed? I don't know. Maybe I am stressed. Or, you know, this sounds like this is a big problem for you. I love how you do that so that it really helps to the person, whoever you're talking to, to really
considered, like, maybe I am, this is how I'm coming off as this, you know, in this way. And the other thing that you've done really well too is, is to have some self reflection. And I think that that's very important, you know, when, when I, I, you know, we've had our little thing where I've been frustrated, and you can sense that and then then we talk about it and you say, Okay, I'm going to, I
that's really good information and I want to try to be a little bit better at that. And that's been a really good lesson to me that I'm trying to do that a lot more in my life as well when somebody tells me something about myself, you know, that I think...
I didn't realize I was coming off that way. think to myself, OK, that's how that person is perceiving me. I'm going to try to improve that. I'm going to try to change that. And honestly, that's a sendy thing to do. It's risky. It is very risky. And so like, I mean, that was something that didn't come naturally to me because it's risky to like venture out and say something like, hey, it seems like you're feeling like this because you can either get the yes, I'm feeling like that or no, you've
named my emotion completely wrong and you've missed the mark, right? But both of those are good data points to have, right? You were either like, yeah, you are understanding or actually you've totally misunderstood where I'm coming from. And both of those are helpful feedback in a relationship. But it is risky and it's also risky to be willing to have the conversation can be risky too, right?
Exactly and because you don't know you don't always know how people are gonna respond and and we as women We often put thoughts into other people's minds or we we interpret things incorrectly of what people think so we assume that Well, you know, must think that I am just the biggest idiot, you know And well, that's okay because I don't care any anyway or whatever it is rather than having the conversation and saying I said this thing that was really dumb to you and
having the other person say, don't even remember you saying that. Like, like that, it's a risk to bring something up that has been bothering us for so long to bring that up. And then to have the other person acknowledge it. because I've actually had that experience too, where I have come in the room with somebody and I've said, I'm really sorry I did this wrong and had that person just attack me. Yeah.
And so that is scary. It is. And that is scary because not everybody is going to be operating from the same interest of, well, like sometimes people don't care about maintaining the relationship, you know? And so that, you know, could be a not concern for them. And so, yeah, I mean, it is risky because if feeling like you could have a disagreement or
you know about it or if not, I don't want to say fight, but like you just have different perspectives about it. Sometimes people can't if you become rigid and you're not able to see the other person's point of view and change yourself. Yeah, like it comes down to pride, right? Very humility like being able to be humble enough to recognize where you've made a mistake and or even just humble enough to recognize that the other person is has a valid or not even a valid concern, but they are
a valid person. Yeah. And they should be listened to whether they're right or wrong doesn't it's not the point it's the relationship whether you want to keep that or not. Yeah totally. Is it okay to sever a relationship? I think so yeah I think there's I mean like I'm thinking in some of the mediations that I sit in like they need to be not around each other anymore like it's toxic for one or both of them and so I feel like making a
decision to not be in that relationship anymore is the right choice for a person to make you know, and you also have to be able to Have self -care for your own Mental health too. And so like if you have a person in your life who is you know, just it's a very toxic and you just can't like it, know get to a place I think it's very healthy to have a boundary there. I think boundaries are super important and the boundaries that we yeah, tell me a little bit
more about boundaries. Like for instance, if you have a parent or a child, somebody in your family that is a little toxic, but you have to be around them sometimes. How do you form those boundaries? What does that look like?
Well, I mean, I think it's going to be different for each situation. But I think if you've had the self -reflection to say this person is toxic, you know, whenever I'm around them, they're, you know, we can't get in a place where we can have a conversation, like a deep conversation. I think that it's told it's appropriate to say, I just have to have a superficial relationship with this person. Like, and that can be sad because it's a, it's kind of
the death of us of something right and that you especially if you have a relationship with somebody that you felt you were close to and that you could share things with and they were in your life but then just like recognizing the things that they do and the way that they create chaos in your life and they bring it into your life and you don't like that then you know it's appropriate to say you know I actually choose to not be in that drama and it's okay to say I maybe I mean sometimes you have to cut the person completely out but also some
Sometimes you can just say, this is just gonna be a superficial relationship. I can be around them. I can ask how they're doing, you know, but I'm not going to let myself get sucked into, you know, to the drama or the things that are, you know, that cause the conflict between the two of you. Does that make sense? Yeah, and I think we put so much value on certain relationships. Yeah. And that's where the problem comes because when we do have to maybe
downgrade the relationship to a more of a superficial relationship, then it becomes very difficult because we value that relationship so much. And so we have to change the way that we look at that relationship as well. So there's an old Jewish proverb that says if there's 10 people in a room, you're going to have one of them that is going to be, or two, one or two of them, maybe two or three, that'll be your very best friends and that you will get along with.
and you will understand each other and you'll be able to talk without any problems. There'll be seven or eight of them that you feel nothing towards, you know, you're just very neutral and you can get along with them, but it's not like you're gonna have a really deep relationship. And then there's one that is gonna be critical about everything you do and is going to try to look for all the bad things in you. And for some reason, we just focus in on that one person and we forget about the nine other people there that
love us and think that we're wonderful. Yeah, because it's hard to deal with rejection and it's hard when you feel like somebody doesn't like you and so sometimes people are wanting to you know stay in that relationship because they feel like something maybe something will change eventually but I think it's also just really healthy to say like you know
I we're never going to agree and coming to the place where you're like, you're never going to agree. You're being negative as a place that you like to be in. And I don't want to be in that negative place and being able to say like, I just don't want to be in the negativity and, and being able to remove yourself somewhat from that I think can be helpful, you know, at for at least for a time. And that's, that's very sandy. You know, you need to, you need to, it's very difficult to cut off some of those relationships and
so I think that you have to be very deliberate about it. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's forever either. There are other ways that, and honestly, it's in your own mind too, a lot of times. So if you can look at that person from a different perspective, that can help you to understand them better and then also to forgive them for whatever.
happens to be the issue. I mean like in any relationship you're going to have two people who are coming from two totally different life experiences, right? And the reason the way they view the world and is going to be informed on the things that they have experienced. And so it takes two people like in a relationship, right? You have to have both like want the relationship and be willing to, you know, effort into it.
effort into it and I think we've all had situations in relationships for whatever reason where it's maybe not even that you weren't willing to put the time in but like you just get distracted into other things and you only have so much time and you can only like nurture so many close good but I want to nurture everyone I mean Facebook when Facebook came into existence it was like all these people that like I used to really love that I'm around was around but I'm not
It's not just like it's proximity sometimes. And that's okay because it's not like you forget about all those people. You take them with you everywhere you go. you know, we've lived in a lot of different places in the world and I look at the friends that I've made and each of these is different places and I love them all and they come in and out of my life, you know, sometimes and I'm able to catch up with them and things like that. And things that they've said to me have made an impact on me. Like I will remember something that they have said.
so I get to keep them with me where I go. But you're right, we don't have enough time to put that effort into all of the relationships that we have. And so when we're with a person, that's when we need to put the energy in. And I think that goes back to
just being in the moment and understanding, know, like just having some meditative understanding of I am here now and I am I am working on this relationship that I have with this person right now. Yeah, totally. And yeah, that's good.
Becky Brouwer (30:11)
All right, it's time for our Sendy Spotlight. My husband told me that I probably needed to explain why I'm doing this. I thought it would be nice to have a little bit of a break during the interview so that you'd know we're about halfway through and we can kind of focus in on a Sendy woman from history. And so the Sendy woman that Sendy mom I'm gonna talk about today is Louisa May Alcott. I chose her because...
My friend Amy is a book lover and reminds me a little bit of Jo in Little Women. So I wanna talk first about Louisa May Alcott's mother, Abigail May Alcott. She was an early feminist and she was an abolitionist as well. She raised her daughters to be independent thinkers and activists also. She often worked outside the home as a social worker to support the family when her husband's business ventures did not go very well.
She was also the model for Marmee in Louisa's famous novel, Little Women. Her resilience and forward-thinking views greatly influenced Louisa's strong-willed, ambitious characters in her book. So Louisa May Alcott had a sister, May, who was the inspiration for Amy March in Little Women, but she tragically died just weeks after giving birth to her only child, who she named Lulu after Louisa. And Louisa, who is 47 years old,
took over full responsibility for that child. Can you imagine having an infant at 47? I know some of you probably do. I just don't think I'd have the energy. So the story she told her adopted daughter, she filled a book that she called Lulu's Library. Louisa May Alcott knew what it was like to handle home and family while pursuing her goals and a career because in addition to caring for her niece,
She was also responsible for her ailing parents until they passed away and they were not well. She didn't ignore the emotion she felt, but she just rolled up her sleeves and got to work. I think we can all relate to that struggle. She said, this double life is trying and my head will work as well as my hands. How many of us have also felt that trying of our lives, but really we have.
two choices. can worry about our lot in life or we can make our head and our hands work for us and improve our lives through tiny, deliberate choices to accept what has been given to us and make it more. Louisa May Alcott said, work of head and hand is my salvation when disappointment or weariness burden and darken my soul. When things are disappointing, or you feel tired, sometimes it's okay to take a nap.
but sometimes after a little bit you just have to put your head and your hands to work and just get going and that's what Sendy moms do. So when my sister was pregnant, this is Emily, when she was pregnant and was feeling really sick she called me one night at like 10 o'clock and she complained to me about her house being a mess and dishes being in the sink and she was just lying on the couch feeling pretty miserable. So
I basically told her to get off her butt and go and wash the dishes. And I told her she needed to call me when she was done with the dishes. She was a little surprised when I told her to do, but we still laugh about that. And every time she does the dishes, she thinks of me. Louise and May Alcott continues to be an inspiration to millions of sendy moms all over the world.
So when you're feeling down or a little bit disappointed, maybe think about something that you can do with your hands or with your head that will get you out of that funk and just go out and send it.
Becky Brouwer (34:03)
I was just going to say back to what you were saying though about the the having two people from different life experiences. Everybody has the agency of making the choice of what they want that relationship to, you know, how much they're willing to invest in.
be in that relationship, right? And so it's risky sometimes because we all make choices where it's like, you know, you might, maybe I'm not getting what I need out of this relationship and I kind of need to let it go, but it's not a failure. It's just like, you're just a different, yeah, you're in just a different spot. And if you don't both have a willingness to keep the relationship going, or maybe you have a willingness, but the other person is, you know, toxic and it's on, it's hard. And you just feel like you need to step back, you know, and that's, that's hard when you've invested.
a lot into the relationship. It's super Like have you ever noticed your kids getting, know, finding a friend, especially when you move to a new place and you don't know anything about the kids in the neighborhood, which is a blessing sometimes, but also it can be detrimental because they get hooked into maybe the toxic friend. then having them try to get away from that toxicity, you know, how do you help a child to find a new friend group or new Yeah, that's really hard because like, I mean,
when you're a parent of a toddler, it's super easy, right? Or even a young elementary school person because you're the one in control of helping them get to and from socializing. But it is a lot more challenging when you have a teenager who is in, you know, those kinds of situations. And I think that we can do this kind of reflective talking with them. just like I had some experiences where I, you know, could say to
a child. Okay, it seems like you know, I'm just going to check in with you but it seems like this is happening and like, you know, does it make you I mean, how do you feel about that when that's going on with this friend in this situation and like even just be me being willing to like name what's happening and saying like, hey, this is this seems kind of off to me or this is a little odd that this happened and it gave that child an opportunity to say, yeah.
Actually, I did notice that and like this is kind of different and like I think it's way better to help them process and get there themselves then it is to say something like This friend's manipulative. This friend is doing this because that's never gonna be received. Well, I've that before and it totally totally did not work But like I think when you come about it in a different direction and you're able to say hey, I noticed this
Or did it seem odd to you about that or how did this make you feel then? They're the ones who are processing and coming to it themselves and even though like with this child in a situation that I'm thinking of the child kind of got there eventually like there were still lots of times where you know things were happening and you're like, I don't love this but it is a learning experience and if it's a learning experience that they're choosing like you kind of just have to be on the side
and help navigate help them navigate that right? I so and and I think that the key word is conversations. Yeah having conversations with your kids is key. Yeah and you have to come at it as a conversation and curiosity. Curiosity for sure. And not not I am the parent this and lecturing you know if you come at it like I'm the parent and I see this happening and I see this happening and it's not gonna happen and this is not right and this person is not treating you right.
Which I've done before and it doesn't work. It's much better to to have them like just say and it's not manipulative to ask them to say hey, I noticed this it's more of a curiosity of like I noticed this how does this make you feel and if they say Actually, I really like it great. Yeah, okay But then even if it's a bad thing and they just say that they think they like it it gets them thinking about it. Yeah, totally right because they're you're asking questions and so then
even if it's not something they were thinking about before then they might be able to recognize it and maybe if it happens again they'll be like this is kind of like when my mom was having this conversation with me and that's interesting that it's happening again or something yeah and so it just puts them in a different
Yeah, different my mindset so that they can they can start processing it themselves because honestly what we're trying to do as parents is help them to become adults Yeah, and to become a good functioning adult you need to be able to critically think through what is happening the experiences you're having and to make choices to to Do something different or to continue to do the same thing that you're you are doing to make your life better. Yeah, right and Yeah, helping them to be able to see that themselves
and to make those decisions themselves is really what we're trying to do as parents.
teaching your children to become adults is a deliberate thing that you do as a parent. Yeah, and what I was going to say was taking a risk to if you do something that's not right, like because we all
have had that's not really taking risk. That's more like you've made a choice to act in a way that you're like you're not maybe wasn't your best self. Right? I mean we all have had that like as parents as spouses and being able to especially as a parent be able to look at that and be like
Mmm, I wish I would have done this different and not only do I wish I would have done this different But I actually owe this person an apology and being able to apologize to your kids I think is huge. I think it's yeah, totally because I think that they can see like hey number one My mom and dad are trying okay, so they're at least making an effort, right? And they realize they're gonna make mistakes too, but I think it's really important to model
Apology to our children because I think that in fact there's a really good book that I read not that long ago called on apology that was so well done and it just like you know the different kinds of apologies that can be offered they talk about but I mean just being able to have a sincere saying like hey, I Did this I feel really bad about it. I wish that I would have acted different Gives them the model of what that looks like because I have at least one person
in my life who I feel like I have never heard them say I'm sorry for anything. You know, like they just can't own that they made a mistake or that they may, you know, and so like how do you think that if they never model that to their children, how are the children ever be able to say, hey, I made a mistake and and that's relationship healing. Right. You know, I mean some people feel real averse to to conflict like there's
different levels of the way people want to deal with conflict and one is a person who's very risk -averse and so they'll just to maintain what they see as stability. They will just like shovel everything under the carpet and they will never like they'd rather maintain what they see as you know, not conflict by just agreeing or not discussing hard things right? And so I think that's really damaging to relationships. Yeah, you have to have the hard conversation.
and have a hard conversation and you have to be able to know how to do that and how to manage that and also if you make a mistake then you can go back and you can model that kind of behavior too. Model the behavior of having the hard conversation but then going back and modeling the behavior of what you do if you've said something. Yeah, because we're all going to do that and I had plenty of opportunities to say to a child I wish I would have handled that different.
I'm so sorry if it made you feel like this, you know, I wasn't my best self and I hope you can forgive me and I hope you know and and having the practice of being in that kind of a moment again and and remembering I didn't like the way I handled this because that's really hard when you're amped up in your emotions and like your go -to is
whatever it is like yelling or you know, out of the room, stomp out of the room, stomp out of the room or saying all the words that come into your mouth without a filter that you're going to regret later. Like it takes a certain level of practice to have a pause and a pause can be so powerful, so powerful in a relationship and actually even being able to have a longer than a few second pause and be able to say to a child,
to a spouse I need time to be able to regroup and come back to this conversation and being able to say this is an important enough conversation that I can't do it right now but I'm going to come back to it and I need to have a pause to be in a better place about it then I think that's also a really helpful thing to model to a child. Or to a spouse. Well honestly that's a really good tool for what we're talking about being Sendy too because
oftentimes we, I mean when we think about being Sendy we're like okay just go just go do it, but what I'm learning is that people who send it have done incremental steps to be able to get to where they are and oftentimes you stop and you look at what's going to happen and you are you you you take a calculated risk by calculating what where you're gonna go what you're gonna do and how you're going to make it a successful attempt whatever you're
trying to attend and so I think that that's that's really important.
so I had a situation and I had a child who was gonna have a surgery and She like I made a choice that morning She had like her surgery check -in time was like 10 or 11 in the morning So she stayed home and I made a calculated decision to go get in some exercise for myself because I was gonna have time to go to this class and come home so she couldn't eat anything before the surgery and
You know, she knew that the people who are at the house with her knew that and I went to my class and I walked in and She had just realized that she was eating Cereal and we weren't gonna be able to go to the surgery and there was a lot of other things happening like it needed to be that day because like if it was the next week then I was I had a conflict and I mean like I had people coming in from out of town and so
I just was like...
my gosh like I Flipped out like I just was like I can't believe you did this I like, know be rated her I was totally not my best self and I just like, know felt so terrible afterwards But like I purged all my feelings onto this poor child and she felt bad. Of course. She felt bad Nobody does it on purpose. She didn't intend to do it and I made her cry and it was just horrible and I had to like take a step back and just be like
Thanks
This is not the most important thing. Yeah. The root, my relationship with this child is way more important than the surgery happens or having to call the surgery center or the doctor and feel stupid and say, you know, I have this 13 year old, she ate, I feel really dumb. Like can it still happen? And no, it couldn't still happen. She had food in her stomach and we had to reschedule and they were super understanding and it wasn't the end of their world.
wasn't the end of my world but in the moment like I could not get out of my head about like what a mess up this was and how upset I was about it and so like
And this is really great too because it caught caught on my ring camera and so you could see my freak out. So I was like, my gosh, like, okay, so that was awesome. And not let's not do that again. Right? Yeah. But the important point is, that you went back and you talked to her. Yeah. And I felt so bad about it. I was like, listen, let's have some perspective. Like I'm upset. You're upset. Like you have whatever. Now I'm going to take you to school because you're not having your surgery today and you're to have to tell all your friends.
what happened and why it's cool and we're gonna have to rework everything out but guess what it was a mistake and all of us are gonna be able to get past it. That's absolutely true. And that's what you want to model too right? True. want to say like...
don't get in a space where you can look at something and say, even though I might be amped up in my head that this is so horrible, having that pause and stepping back and being like, this isn't the big thing that I'm making it into, I think is very helpful in life for them to also be able to say like, Hey, when this thing that I think is the is like world ending is happening to me, hopefully they'll remember like, okay, let's take a step back. And maybe this isn't the worst thing ever. It doesn't mean that it's
It's not.
Terrible and the moment and you can have those emotions and whatever but what you choose to do with it and how you interact with the people is kind of where your choice is right absolutely
when you recognize in yourself that, boy, I really made a mistake there and I need to make it right. Then you need to have the hard conversation, which is hard for you to apologize because you have to get to that place of human.
Yeah, that you recognize that you've done something wrong and then go and tell somebody that you have and you don't know how they're gonna react No, and that's scary. That's risky, right? Having that kind of conversation is risky Yeah, and cuz they could either be like, thank you for the apology or you know, whatever But they could also be like, you know, I'm just not willing I don't want to hear your apology and I don't want anything to do with you. Yeah I mean you have you have to be willing to accept both exactly outcomes and and and
part of how I think how you can deal with that like if it's not received very well is to remember that that's their issue. It's not yours. Yeah, that's true. And I really like that too, because I think that your end is realizing that there is a mistake and being able to offer the apology and you've done all in your power in that relationship to try to mend.
that fence, right? That's right. And it you have to realize that there is another person with agency on the other side and they get to choose about accepting your apology or not accepting their apology. But that shouldn't be that really shouldn't have any bearing on your decision to offer the apology, right? Because that's your job. That's your job. That's your task. Yeah. And actually in this book on apology, they talk about that too. And that like whether
you know, it's a kind of apology where somebody could, you know, perhaps not accept your apology and that's okay, but just being willing to offer it is that's your job is your job. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Let's see. I wanted to ask, okay, is there anything that you are really wanting to do? Okay, we went we went for a nice mountain bike ride the other day and you went on a trail that was hard for you. was. I I crashed on it the first time and so
It was...
Scary, you know, it's a trail that has a lot of berms, which I don't love Yeah, you know and it doesn't it didn't feel safe, you know sure. Yeah. Yeah imminent death I think you yeah something like that Possible death right I'm not even gonna say the trail because people from around here who might see that might feel like I'm being super dramatic So I had you know, we have a mutual friend to
that I felt like that about this trail and I was kind of like, okay, I don't want to do that trail again because I don't want to break my arm because I have a really fun things that I want to do that if I like broke my arm or broke my leg, I'd be super sad if I couldn't go to Powell and and surf or do the things that I really wanted to do. I like mountain biking, but I don't like love mountain biking, right? I love being on the boat and doing surfing and so in my mind was just like I'm not doing that because I do not want to put a trip at risk.
for not being able to do the thing that I really love, Sure.
Our friend knew that I felt like that about this trail and she had bugged me a little bit and said okay That's reasonable but at the end of the season when you're done with that We're gonna come back and do this trail and I was kind of hoping she forget about it Honestly, right and we had another friend who felt like this about a different trail but in the same trail system and so she sent us texts and to all of us and was like, okay, you know, it's time for you and
to like face your fears and do these two trails. And a little bit I was like, I kind of was hoping she forget about it. Right. But also I was like, No, this is good for me to like, face a fear and get back on the bike and go do something that seemed hard just because
I think that it's good for us to do hard things. For sure. I think it's healthy and good to try again or to be like, okay, I can do this. And I did it. And like, I didn't crash. I like had one part where like, I came around a berm and there was loose gravel and I had to put my hand out. And so I came off my bike. But like, I did the whole trail without crashing. And now in my mind, I can say, I can do that trail. I'm not gonna be afraid of it. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. And, and that's the
is like...
we try things and maybe I hate to say bail, but it's not even a fail. like we don't, it didn't turn out exactly the way that we wanted it to turn out, right? And we have a choice at that point and either choice is valid. You could say, you know what, I really don't need that in my life and I'm just going to go and do something else. I'm going to try something else. But you also have the choice where you can say, that didn't work out the way that I wanted it to. And I really want to try it again because I think I can do a little bit better.
the fact that you did this thing that was hard for you and that you got off the bike and you said well now I know I can do it. Yeah. That produces some good feelings. Yeah for sure. And we have to have a few of those things in our lives to feel like we have meaning. Yeah and I mean you and I have talked about this before there's a Freakonomics podcast that one of my very favorite episodes that I've listened to multiple times is about quitting things you know and feeling like because I think sometimes people feel like I'm a failure if I quit something.
You know and I I mean I really like kind of like what they talk about in this podcast that like it's actually just kind of a Data point about saying like hey, I tried this for a really for sometimes a really long time But like this isn't fulfilling me anymore and it's okay to quit or say you I mean I would say to move on failure Yeah, yeah to just move on to something else and say like, know actually I can I think that there's something that might be better out there and that is very different than
and having like the mentality of feeling like I did this one thing for a super long time. I feel like I'm totally invested in it and I can't quit and try something different. I think it's healthy to like think about that and feel like that's not failing. That's just saying, you know, I think there might be something better. And it's okay to stop doing something.
Find something that you're better at or something that you enjoy more because I mean I think you're really good at that about like trying new things and you know Trying to do different things and figuring out like where your love is and what kind of things that you that you like doing I think you've tried a lot of things and and so you have a lot of data points of knowing like I don't like this but I like this and it's not quitting something to say that it's just saying I have a limited amount
of time and this is what I want to spend my time on. Absolutely, I love that.
Okay I thought we'd these rapid -fire questions for you.
What has brought you joy in the last 24 hours?
Let's see. I had a situation with the child where I, we had to like come back to an understanding of things and being able to come back and be like, I love you. Like we can work through things and whatever. think that was, you know, it's always joyful when you're like, okay, you still love me. You don't love all the things that I do, but you know, comes back to those conversations again that you've been able to have the hard conversations.
and then you're able to apologize or whatever or recognize that we still love each other even though we have these hard conversations. That's what builds those relationships. Those are gonna become so strong when you can do that. So yeah, that does bring me a lot of joy. reconciliation brings joy anyways, right? Absolutely. And don't you feel like that? I feel like anytime I've had an opportunity to reconcile, you're like, the weight's off. We're back to like, we're good with each other. That always feels good.
that. Yeah. What was the last TV show or documentary that you watched?
I don't watch a lot of TV, but I watched the, I think it was like eight parts of, we were the lucky ones. was a book that they turned into a mini series. I think I've heard of it before or something, but it was a world war two one about a Polish, Jewish Polish family. And, I think they had five children and they ended up in all these different circumstances like
One ended up in a work camp in Russia and one started the war in in France and you know, they just like were in all these different places where all of them could have totally Not made it through the war and they were Jews they were you know, all of these things and every single child that Including the parents so it was pretty good. It was a good I mean, yeah, it was good and it's me. I mean, it's based on a true story. It was real they end up in
Brazil. In South America. Yeah, in South America. Yeah, but that was interesting because I'd read the book and I wanted to see what the adaptation was. Yeah. All right. I don't have a whole lot of time to watch TV either, but I love getting recommendations because I do not want to waste my time. Yeah, that's true. something, you know, because I don't have very much time to If I don't know something that I'm going turn the TV on to, I just don't turn it on. And so that's like, I just hardly ever, there's no reason to turn on.
I just can't even think of anything I want to watch. What was the last really good book that you read?
I mean, I, the book club book for this month is Hester and I just finished that one. I actually liked that one. thought it was good. Yeah. thought it was well written. was, it was well written. It was, you know, an interesting historical fiction about Nathaniel Hawthorne who wrote Scarlet Letter. And so I always like a historical fiction. mean, obviously it's fiction, so it didn't, you know, probably not real, not real characters, but it just like put you in the timeframe and
I always love a good one that has a woman like heroin, heroine where you can experience what that time would have been like for her because we just live in such a vastly different time. Yeah, yes, absolutely. I love that one too. I thought it was good. was looking forward to that one. Favorite vacation spot? Powell.
hands down. love it. Like it's like my favorite place on the planet. You know, so beautiful. It's the weather is so warm, like all the good memories and I love that it's not crowded. You know, I mean there's so many vacation spots or I bet my kids would probably say Disneyland is one of their favorite places to go or whatever. And that's its own kind of fun vacation, I guess. But I just love being in nature.
And like the way we do it where we're out far on the houseboat is just like peaceful and there's some people around but it's not a lot, you know?
that it's just so it's nice and and you can generally get away from the technology a little bit and actually relax yeah just sit down sit on the boat or wherever and just enjoy it get in the water when you get hot and yeah no it's great and just then even the nature aspect of it is just like I just love being in a place that's just so beautiful and just like a part of our earth that you just think like my gosh like yeah this is actually amazing like
Yeah, it is so beautiful. What was created for our enjoyment, you know? I mean, it's amazing. What's a place that you would like to go visit next? there a place? so many, So many. Like, that's not the problem, but that's what happens when you start, like...
going to places is you're like, I'd love to go here. I'd love to go there or
everywhere you live, there is some beauty in it,
name one thing that you try to do every day. maybe this is cheesy, but I try to like...
you know, have a connection with deity every day. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. Good. I think that helps you be centered and just. And for, you know, and people who don't believe in God, it's a time to come to a center. Yeah. To meditate. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
Well, thank you for talking to me about being Sendy. You are very Sendy Mom. Thanks. I love it. think you are too. Yeah. It's good to learn from each other. It is. And really it comes down to having this community with each other, people who are strengthening each other. And that's what this is all about.
Yes. you for listening to this Sendy Mom podcast and be sure and subscribe and follow us on Instagram and we'll see you next time.