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“Know Your Children with Rav Shlomo Katz” is a series about the everyday holy work of raising children with heart, patience, and honesty. Join Rav Shlomo in learning from the sefer Da Et Yeladecha by Rav Itamar Shwartz, author of Bilvavi Mishkan Evneh, and explore how Torah and Chazal guide us in building a healthy, loving connection between parent and child.
This isn’t about perfect techniques or quick fixes. It’s about creating a foundation of truth, learning to really listen, and finding the right “funnel” so that what we want to give actually reaches our children. Each shiur is meant to be practical, gentle, and encouraging, and something you can take home and live with.
We're learning in the month of Cheshvan for, sponsored by the Silvers, לעילוי נשמת בתיה פייגא בת ישראל, by the Aaron family, לעילוי נשמת לוי בן יוסף, anonymously for the refuah shleimah of Eliza Chana bas Naomi, Shoshana Yona bas Aidel, and for Gilat bas Ilana. Wow, this is, listen to this. This week must be a very, it is a very, it's definitely a very, very strong week. The weekly sponsors by, wow, I can't believe, Mora Dvora, by Dvora O'Brien in honor of her first aliyah anniversary.
I can't believe it already, wow. That's amazing. That's beautiful. To many, many more years, bezrat Hashem.
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Here, we can give these pages out.We have a, we have an important shiur today, a very important shiur. Hopefully every shiur is important, there's going to be something, something that we began speaking about last time we had the shiur two weeks ago, and that was the need to have a relationship of friendship with our children. That's part of the whole thing. Are there enough pages? Did everyone get? Whoever needs, there's more up here.
Whoever needs. Everyone have? Okay. So this nekudah, this thing we began speaking about last time, that there is a need within the, within the healthy framework of a relationship between parents and children, your child needs to be also your friend and you're, for the child, they have to look at their parent as a friend as well. This is what we spoke about two weeks ago.
As you see in the middle of daf yud gimmel, the Chofetz Chaim's son, remember that ישנם זכרונות שכתב רב חיים ליב, the Chofetz Chaim's son spoke about this, that that he had, there was a yachas shel chaverut in the house. He, he, he, he said, like, I could tell you a million things about what it was like to be my father's son, Chofetz Chaim, but there was also, there was an overlying friendship that was in the house. However, we all know, and I'm sure this came up maybe when you were beginning to think about this as well, is that that's also, there's something a little bit dangerous about that as well. And we're trying here to understand the healthy boundaries.
And this is true about every age, well, not every age, because when you're, when they're toddlers, it's not such an inyan, but I think every age from the moment that there's more like this ahavah that we said is more based on when the children's characteristics come out into play and you start to get to see their personality, from that moment on till the rest of their life, till the rest of their life, even when, even when they're out of the house, what's the healthy balance of friendship and that place that it's not shayach a friendship, that you're a parent. And it's not you're here, you're here, but a shtickel, kat, kind of, kind of. So, this is, this is going to be today's topic, and it's going to also continue into next week. And Rav Schwartz has something charif.
Well, we're, I don't know how charif you'll feel it is, but the mechaber, the author's words here, there's something very important to take notice of in terms of what's considered a Yiddishe home, a Jewish home.So you see on yud gimmel, me'idach. You see where that is? The third on the half, half the bottom half of the page. Something very important. Me'idach.
Yesh gisha hato'enet. There's an approach that says, שאם היחס עם הילדים יהיה של יחסי חברות, if it's just friendship, ישנו חשש שההורים עלולים לאבד את השליטה בבית. maybe some of you feel that already, you've completely lost control of the home. But he's saying that if it's embedded, if the relationship between parents and and children, there's something like this this nekudah of it's like it's just it's friendship, and all you do is like, you know, giggles and and shop online together with your...
your kids and and talk about the latest movie together or even, or even talk about the latest shiurim together and get excited about the latest shiurim. Lo meshane ma, it doesn't matter what it is. But if, here, there's, there are more pages up here for whoever needs. But if it's mainly that, then shlita, shlita, I want to just focus on this word here.
Control over here doesn't just mean that you lose control of everything. It means the vision of of what you want the home to to look like in the bigger picture could get lost. It could get lost because now it's just like if it's just friendship, mashu chaser, there's something missing over there.
והילדים יעשו מה שהם רוצים על פי גישה זו.
And then the kids would do whatever they want because with friendships, friends, a healthy friendship is I'm me, you're you, we like each other, it meshes, it shtemt. Kids would do whatever they want.
על פי גישה זו, ההורים חייבים להיות בבית בעמדת של מחנכים.
אבל בעמדת על של מחנכים.
What needs to happen is that in the home, parents must have to always maintain a status and we're going to, and this shiur is trying to beautify, to beautify this status of always being the mechanach, the educator. Always, even within the framework of, wow, my kids and I were best friends. And yet in the same, in the same token, but there's always something underlying and clear that my children know, yeah, best friends, but Mommy, Daddy, Abba, Ima, they're still, they're still this, you know, they're still here, they're still the mechanach. They still set the tone, they're still the ones that are, you know, I I see some of your faces.
I just have a bakasha, please don't start feeling bad and guilty on this shiur. Don't start going back and be like, oy vey, you know. That's not, you know, can imagine if we learned Torah and every time we learned about a new mitzva, our initial approach was, oy vey is mir, I'm such a, you know, that maybe that's how a non-chasidisha Yid lives. A chasid learns Torah, he's like, I am so excited that this is in front of my eyes right now because all I have is right now.
And when it comes to parenting, I've noticed this, these shiurim can unfortunately sometimes be destructive. That's not the point. The point is to look at the opportunity of hayom. Right now, what's in front of me is what's available in front of me too.
All right? So we got a little bit of a the shiva faces to okay? Simcha. You think I'm not looking at this also, and thinking, oy va'avoy shli. Everyone has a shtickel. If you don't have a shtickel of like, then then then then you're not real with yourselves because each person has to deal with this, right? Each person has to deal with this.
The no, the home is being built from today on. Because yesterday was built from yesterday on. And that's how we have to keep on looking at the development of of the homes that we hope that that that we're doing the best that we can with.So, the ha'ora'ah amura l'eil, based on what we just said right now about this combination between chaverut, between friendship between parents and children, and also maintaining the status of, listen, this is what goes.
כיצד עלינו להתייחס לגישה זו.
So how do we approach such a thing?אכן בוודאי, second to bottom paragraph, obviously, שאין לשלול לחלוטין את הצורך בעליונות הברורה של ההורים בבית. Of course, nothing should, the the the need, the essential need that parents are the ones that of course are in a world of elyonut, the upper hand, meaning the kove'a, that shouldn't be revoked, that shouldn't be removed, that shouldn't be taken away from the home while you're trying to establish friendship, obviously. Ulam, tzarich tamid lizkor, you have to always remember, שעמדת העל בבית היא צד אחד בלבד של המטבע, that authoritative position is needs to be there, but it's only one side of the coin.
ובד בבד יש לזכור, in the same token, you have to remember, שחלק בלתי נפרד מהחינוך הוא קשר של ידידות בין הילד להוריו.
And the other side of the coin, and it seems to me, so far, that it's mamash 50-50. It's half and half. It's not 51-49. It's 50-50 that the other side of the coin is that coin of chaverus, of friendship.
That's what it seems to me so far. I know. or some of you or some of me wants it to be, no, no, I want it to be 51% authority and 49 friendship. He's not saying that.
He's saying it's mammash, it's together one side of the coin and one side of the coin like this, and our tafkid in this shiur is to develop the how. How does that manifest? How does that develop? Because this is a big avodah. And this is something I'm sure that you all wish you had growing up if you didn't, and it's definitely something that you pray that when your children tell their children about what it was like to grow up at home, that they would be able to give this over. And that they would daven to be parents like that as well.
So when something is so clearly our ratzon and worthwhile and what we want, it's kedai to mammash open our hearts and and try to see how we can get guided in this in this in this direction.Veloh zo bilvad. Now here he says something, wow. Now you can understand, you can understand a lot over here. Veloh zo bilvad, not just this, אלא בית שבו היחס בין ההורים לילדים הוא על בסיס של חברות וידידות בלבד, but a home where the relationship between parents and children is just based on friendship, לא שייך להגדירו כבית יהודי.
You cannot call that a Jewish home. That's pretty chazak. You can't call that a Yiddishe home. That's not a Jewish home.
I don't know what kind of home that is, but doesn't, you can't call it a Jewish home, he says.Barur upashut lekulanu, it's clear to everyone, שהחינוך בבית חייב להתבסס על משמעות ברורה. Of course, to all of us it's clear. Chinuch in the home must be based on total discipline, ובית שאין בו משמעת and in a home where there is no discipline, והילדים עושים מה שהם רוצים. And you're so proud to say, look at this, my house, we have such trust that I don't even, there's no discipline.
I have this inyan, I we spoke about it in shiur a few weeks ago, gentle parenting or something, I don't know what it was called. Was that what it was? So I don't know if this is the Torah of that world, but he's saying over here that a home where it's just like we've reached such a place of total trust that my kids know that they do whatever they want and it generally turns out to be good, but I've taken upon myself to not comment. Why? Because when I was younger, and someone commented to me, it turned me off. Yeah, because when you were younger and you were bad or you weren't working right, and the way they they told you you're wrong was basically the equivalent of a whip and whipping your neshama and whipping you and hurting you.
The way that maybe the previous generation understood what discipline meant. Discipline. Discipline, you know how many of my friends have told me, it wasn't my experience, Baruch Hashem. But so many of my friends, you know how parents used to discipline when you were off? A father would point to the belt.
That's it. It's just a point to the belt. My house was the wooden spoon. Everyone, I don't want to go into I really don't want to go into personal examples right now.
I want to talk about this as a mahalach of a shift of energy in the world of parenting and of education.Right, so so it's true when you were younger and you were off, discipline meant, okay, I'm going to do what my Abba did, what my Zeide did. I'll take you to the side and... That's the way we do it, right? So therefore, there's a shift in the parenting in our generation. It's like, I'm going to go to the complete opposite because that, look how great that worked for me.
So I'm going to go to the other place and be like, Chaverus now. Everything's just friend. But the child inside, the rebellious child, deep down in their hearts, they're like saying, I don't even have anything to rebel against anymore. Everything's muttar for me.
So then they rebel and they become really straight or or or rosh sagur and... why can't there be harmony? Why can't there be harmony in the home? Why can't there be harmony in the discipline? We're trying to find harmony in the discipline.That's why he says in the bottom of here, it's clear, if there's no discipline, it's not a Jewish home. Again, third third to bottom line, ברור ופשוט לכולנו שהחינוך בבית חייב להתבסס על משמעות ברורה. There's got to be a like clear, like certain things, they just don't go.
As much as we're best friends, as much as it's all like, wow, we go to the movies together, we... have the our favorite, we look at magazines together, we joke about the same things or how that woman wears her tichel and everyone laughs at the Shabbos table, we joke about these things. There's also a very clear underlying like kav of like, but there's also discipline and certain things got to be clear like, certain things just don't go in the house. But not in this like, and certain things don't go in the house and point to your belt, but with that smile of like, look how beautiful it is.
We have this friendship while we know that certain things are clearly to never be crossed over. That harmony is something we all want. We desire very badly. We daven for this very much.
This is a dream home.ובית שאין בו משמעת והילדים עושים מה שהם רוצים, אין שום סיכוי שההורים יצליחו בחינוכם כראוי. If you've given the free reins to the Kinderlach to do whatever they feel they need to do in the name of learning from previous generations mistakes, it's even rooted in some, in a warped, in a warped concept of holiness even, because I want to fix the unholy way that I experienced life. So he says here it's great, you'll be left with friends, but don't, you don't pretend for a second that chinuch is what's been giving over. And a parent's obligation is to be mechanchim.
It's you have to be educators. You have to have that element that's emanating from within you and what the children see, see at home. Ulam, next page.
אולם עם זאת יש לזכור, but you have to remember something, כי זהו צד אחד של המטבע.
Again, this is just one side of the coin.
ובד בבד חייב להתקיים אף הצד השני. And at the same time, the other side has to be existing as well, שהילדים יחושו את רגשי הידידות והחברות מצד ההורים, that the child feels the love, the connection from the from the side of the parents. You know, with, thinking about this also is like with with mechanchim that are not your parents but in school, in yeshiva, in shuls, and any place of which should be authority, it's also very, very true, you know, but the but a person that's not mechuyav, that's not obligated mi'tzad ha'din as parents to educate someone, they don't have to work as hard to make sure they get this harmony right than parents do.
Parents is like this, what he's saying over here is like the tefillah if we were like, oh, we're all רב נחמן ברסלבר חסידים right now and we would make a tefillah out of the Torah that we just learned, maybe it would sound something like this. It would sound like Ribbono Shel Olam, I'm in awe of the fact that you trust me with these neshamos.I'm in awe. Like, I'm definitely in awe when they're born, and every few years I have that moment of I can't believe this is my kid. I can't believe, not not, I can't believe this is my kid.
I'm saying, I cannot believe this thing came out of us. Like, I just can't believe it. But and I know Ribbono Shel Olam you trust me to give over to them clearly the difference between being a mensch and not being a mensch. And in this crazy world, that could be very difficult sometimes.
But I'm begging you Ribbono Shel Olam, please let my children know that anytime that there's discipline, it's, it's it's given over in a very clear way, and in the same token, in the same breath they feel that the their best friend in the world is telling them these words as well. The same in the same token. Very, very difficult. Very hard, but it's so worth, you know, it's so worth investing in trying to express such a tefillah to Hashem.
What could what could be more worthwhile davening over? You know? What could be more worthwhile? I don't know. Lo yodea.Yes. Is he going to talk about the good cop, bad cop phenomenon or no? Because that ends up being 50/50, but it's not a good. The good cop, bad cop between husband and like husband and wife, good cop, bad cop? Like, this is the disciplinarian and this is the one who loves and has fun.
Well, I mean, I hope not, you know. I hope not because, is he gonna mention it at all? Later in the sefer there's a little bit of a difference between Abba and Ima, 100%. Uh but right now where he's speaking about is just a klal of like, what should be clear in the home? In the home, generally, like just what's what should be crystal clear in the home? That's really what it is.Okay. speak about it, we'll see next week.
He's going to speak about it that the way to really tap into these things is to remember you're also dealing with neshamos and not just bodies. And when you remember you're dealing with neshamos, that's when things get even more exhilarating. And when you realize your child that's in front of you is a neshama and not just this body, that's when it's really, it's things start to really click differently on chinuch. And you say, what do you mean? I always remember I have a neshama in front of me.
No, you don't. No one does. I shouldn't say no one. I shouldn't say no one.
Generally you don't. Because we're absorbed, we're so absorbed with tzarchei haguf. You know, especially when they're little. Remember, Abe Rotenberg has that song, what's it called? A little neshamaleh, right? But imagine looking at your seven-year-old or twelve-year-old and singing that song to them.
How does it start? Come, come to me little neshamaleh? Come with me little neshamaleh, right?It's going to be exciting. This is good. Now, to empower us further with this other inyan of chaverus, of that there needs to be, you know, there's I know that maybe for some of you from the, without again, no raising hands and dating yourselves, but from a different generation of chinuch, I'm sure for some of you are saying, what is he talking about? What? Chaverus? Friendship? Parents and children? They have friends in school. They have friends on the street.
Don't give me this whole thing of what the modern world is even pulling out of a chareidi rav to start talking about. Well, look how he fell too. He also drank the Kool-Aid of what this dor needs. So now he's saying all these words that for thousands of years we did pretty good.
We managed to survive in exile for 2,000 years without parents thinking they should be their friends to their kids. Don't, why are you starting to stir it up? So everything that we're learning in this sefer, and hopefully everything we learn in every shiur, are not just thoughts and theories and philosophies that sound like it's really nice and good and healthy. Everything is through Chazal. Everything we're doing.
Same thing with the women's shiur on Thursday with the concept of the woman's role and everything that we've been learning about with women in shul, which is, I just want to encourage you for this last, I have to say it like this, this last Thursday morning's shiur about the Rebbes and their relationship with ezras nashim was revolutionary. I've never, I couldn't believe what we were learning from that sefer. Now, but those weren't thoughts, oh, this sounds like a nice vort. It's embedded through Chazal what what this tzurah of a shul should look like in regards to women.
And it was an amazing, amazing experience. I want to encourage you to if you can't make it to those to that shiur, please make sure you listen to it online because it's literally an ikkar of this shul. So, when we speak on Thursdays about ikkar of the shul, and here we're speaking about the ikkar of the home, where else do we hang out? Shul at home. There's no, there's nothing else.
Someone recently called me, he said, I would love to, I would love to meet up with you and speak with you. Where could we catch a coffee? So I I don't, I don't know. Are there cafes in Efrat? I said, I don't, I started to think, are there cafes in Efrat? Not, I mean, there's nice, there's a few attempts, right? Not really, not really. What do we have? We have the shul and home.
What else is life, you know? What else is a, what else are we putting our kishkes into? This is home. So now he's going to say something. Listen to this. Just just davening while you're learning these words.כאשר הרמב"ם בהלכות דעות מגדיר את החיוב של ואהבת לרעך כמוך, ואהבת לרעך כמוך, according to the Rambam, mitzvas asei.
And the Rambam's defining, bless you, in Hilchos Deos, in Mishneh Torah, what that mitzvah is. He writes b'zeh halashon. This is the Rambam's words.
חייב כל אחד מישראל לאהוב כל אחד מישראל.
That's pretty straightforward. What did he say? Every yid is obligated to love every yid. An obligation. For some people, when they read that, what's the subtitles for their own language?
חייב כל אחד מישראל לאהוב כל אחד מישראל חוץ מהילדים שלו.
That does, that's not part of ואהבת לרעך כמוך. That's a different thing. That's a different thing. Really? Why? They don't fall into that category? Ahavas Ahavas Yisrael? Your children don't fall under that category? Harei she'milvad kach, שההורה המתנהג כלפי ילדיו כמחנך בלבד.
Aside from the fact that a parent that acts towards their children just as an educator, he says here, this connects us to the first few shiurim, מאבד את המשפך שיכול להקל עליו ולהעביר את החינוך. You lose the funnel through which what you want to give over to your children comes through, transports through. Zot v'od, כאשר היחס הוא של עליונות בלבד, when the relationship is just authority, the problem is הרי שאינו מקיים כלפי ילדיו את מצוות ואהבת לרעך כמוך. He's saying here two things take place.
Two things take place when you say my children don't fall into the category of v'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha. They're not my friends, they're my children. V'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha is a different mitzva. He says two things happen.
One, when you want to give over to your children what you want to give over to your children, there's no funnel at that moment when you remove them from the from the jurisdiction of of of v'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha. And what also ends up happening is that you're not mekayem the mitzva klapei your children.This is an amazing thing. This is an amazing chiddush. He's saying, when you look at your children, the shayla is, do they fall under the mitzva of v'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha? I never thought of it like this, ever.
I never didn't think that they don't fall into the category of need to be loved. But it always seemed to me that that mitzva was a mitzva that has to do with just other people. And here he's he's illuminating our eyes and he's saying, can you do the following thing? Can you walk into your home? And before you walk into your home, or before your kids come home from school, or before anything that entails engagement with your children, can you say the words הריני מקבל עלי מצות עשה של ואהבת לרעך כמוך?When do we usually say that?
הריני מקבל עלי מצוות עשה של ואהבת לרעך כמוך. Shul.
Now we're saying home. When someone comes for tzedaka to your house. What's that? What did you say? Can you imagine if every time a meshulach came to the house and you said הריני מקבל עלי מצוות עשה של ואהבת לרעך כמוך, even if you have nothing to give them? See what happens where often when you don't have what to give them, or you don't want to give them, or you don't. So to justify it, we we we don't say, we subconsciously, v'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha can't be over here right now because then how do I deal with.
Yeah. So imagine like your kid comes home, half hour the neighbor told you through a text message what they just heard your kid saying to another kid. Right? And then at that moment you say, okay, as a parent all I want now is authority. But as a Yid to a Yid, v'ahavta, הריני מקבל עלי מצות עשה של ואהבת לרעך כמוך.
Revolutionary. Do you understand how revolutionary this idea is? It's so threatening to the way that we were given over Yiddishkeit and chinuch.
מה אתה מביא לי? What are you bringing me, v'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha with my children? They also fall under that. Because then when you have that incorporated, it it really it puts you in a it puts us in our place.
Mamash. This is like a very sensitive area. This distinguishes between a lot of different, definitely chalukim of what we want to give over, what we don't want to give over. It's very, very difficult.
Yeah.I'm wondering is the 50% like, you choose when you choosing to have an authoritative moment and 50% you're choosing when you're supposed to be loving? I'm sorry, can you repeat it again? Yeah, the question is are you always both? Are you always 50% authoritative and always 50% loving? Or there's some moments where this is the moment where I'm using that 50% to show I don't know, authority over, or is that I'm always like b'yachas, like it's it's like I'm going to parent you but only through the love. Good question. What do you think? I think it's always all together based on what you just. Ideally.
Yes, essentially. Yes. I think this phrase opens up that channel. It definitely does.
It definitely does. Yes. of the friendship channel, then it's for sure 50/50. Yes.
Yes. Now, Alex, it's a it's an ideal. Like I don't want people to hear your question, hear your answer and be like, again, shivah face comes on again. Like I don't, because it's easy to fall into that.
It's easy to fall into that. These are ideals. This is the ultimate. What we're speaking, there's nothing more important than what we're learning.
There's I can't think of anything more important. And therefore if something is that important, the ideal state of this importance is a very high level. Very high level. And that's why it has to be meluvah b'tfilah, it has to be escorted with davening, a shiur like this.
There's no other way. You can't, it won't come down, the way to for it to manifest this level of a, this tzurah of a parent. There's no way for it to manifest by thinking about it till I chap how to do it. Right? There's no other way.
You can, how many of, don't raise your hands, but how many of you have gone to parenting classes, have read parenting books, have had moments of exhilarated of of feeling so empowered by how you've implemented one out of the 35 shitas you've you've you've learned, right? At the end of the day, it can only really come down when it's escorted with with prayer, with with praying over such a thing. So it's true that the ideal place is that it's while you're being authoritative, there's friendship that also comes out through the words, but it's clear that right now, this is setting clear boundaries and the other way as well. But these are real mailos of shleimus hamidos. When the midos, when the midot are, you know, fully, I would say they're they're they're they're fully meshed together, you know, which is interesting that that's really the midah of Yaakov Avinu where chesed and gevurah are happening simultaneously.
Actually it's not Yaakov, slicha. No, it's Yosef. I'll explain. Yosef Hatzadik's midah, Yaakov's midah was that he also had chesed and he also had gevurah.
Yosef Hatzadik was that the way he, the way he conducted himself is that they were both happening simultaneously all the time.That's that's one of the ways that that we learned how the midos come out. Yaakov had both. Parents could have both, right? They could have both. They could know, I have this and I have that.
Yosef Hatzadik's way of giving over, and we see this by Ephraim and Menashe. Maybe that's also why they, we we bench our children, the sons, ישמחך אלהים כאפרים וכמנשה. That they grew up in a home that what you just described was happening simultaneously through every moment of chinuch that took place in the house, and of chaverus at the same time.So these are extremely high ideals. This is like very, very high stuff, and so worthwhile to rip our kishkas over and learn and discuss and daven over such things to take place.Okay, so now the next paragraph.
It's going to go a little bit more.Can I ask a practical? Only if it's really shayach to what we're, only if it's really shayach to what we're, what we're learning in here right now. No, it is, and just I would love a practical example of something in the day-to-day where this is implemented, because I can't imagine, I guess for me and how I parent, how I grew up, how you could be have 50% friendship and then have the 50% where the kids actually listen to you and you're the teacher. I can't, I love a real-life example of how that plays out. You you choose any example you want right now of what happens in your home.
Choose any example of what you, it has to be something personal, so, because you want to be, you want to relate to it. Choose anything right now. But I I just want to stick with Rochel's just cause she brought it up. Choose any example if you'd like.
Or if you'd rather someone else give an example? I just, I don't, I feel like I'm either, I guess I'm way more inclined to be the the teacher disciplinarian and not, this is my best friend. I feel like a lot in our house, we'll even say to our kids and I guess we're not your friend. You know, meaning there has to be a differentiation between the parent figures and the kid figures. So I'm trying to see how that is.
It's like you have that like, I don't know. I guess I, meaning I have a very positive relationship with my kids. I guess I wouldn't call it a friendship. So maybe it's the word that's throwing me off.
Could be. It could be it's the word. Yeah, yeah. Don't let it get, don't, don't let that block you.
Meaning so instead of friendship, I could plug in positive relationship with child? How does that work? I don't know. a connection? I don't know. I don't know. You know, in one second, in in in in Hebrew there's a few different names for.
words for friendship and he goes back and forth between them. Did you notice what he was saying a few times? What's that? Chaverut and yedidut. Yeah. Maybe yedidut is a better word here.
Cause yedidut doesn't necessarily mean friendship. Yedid. Yedid nefesh. Can I say Hashem's my friend? Yedid, yedidut is more like...
Well if you look at the word yad and yad, kind of like to coming together. Respect? Partnership? Yeah, it's more that than, yeah, I think it's more that. I'm reluctant to say a few, you know, because I don't want to sway it completely to something that could be different, but I think it's interesting that he uses that word. He substitute, not substitute, but he adds that on when he says about what needs to happen over here.
But I don't want the word friend to, you know, to to block what the point of what he's saying is.Listen, I love my kids with all my heart, but and I do feel they're... I feel like they're my, like they're not my best friends because what I have with friends is so special, but it has nothing to do with what I have with my children. And yet there's still something that's like non-threatening about the relationship. Because, you know what I mean, there's like...
we'll figure it out. Jenny's burning to share something. Go for it, Jenny.And one time, whatever, I'm not going to say where I got this from, but a friend is like you want to know why they do things. They're a separate person than you.
And again, it's always meeting them where they're at. So in a situation saying, instead of just saying, you're not allowed to do that, no you can't do that, you say something like, instead we do this, or why maybe did you do that? As opposed to like be curious. Like you're a person, I'm a person. I'm still going to be authoritative, but what brought you to make this choice? You know, something like that.
I don't know if he's going to get to that in in this, but that's how I think you would address a friend as opposed to just an authoritative relationship with a child.Lori? Yeah, going along with what Jenny was saying, when I saw the v'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha, the thing that came to mind was dan l'kaf zechut. And I think that if that's something that we implement with our children, more, more like in, in the line that we do with our friends and hopefully with ourselves, I think that that really will, will help with the v'ahavta l'reiacha kamocha, right? Uh, Lori, you just, you just took the shiur three months like forward. No, no, no, no, no. This is so...
we're there already, there's no going back. So what you just said over here right now is the pnimius of everything he's, he will say to us and he said to us, why? Why is it so hard? Why is it so much harder to do dan l'kaf zechut where on our children than it is by other people? Because another person, dan l'kaf zechut, it's not so threatening to me, like, I'll do it. Why is it so hard to do it on my own children? Because... Huh? We're nogea.
Why am I nogea? Because who am I basically judging, like why is it harder for me to judge them? Because you're judging yourself. Right. Because I, 'cause it's me. And I know me.
I am a... You know, in theory you control you, but you can't control them. But but we're under the assumption that they're me. Like what do you mean? That that's what I, I would never say it to my kid, but I mean I would say, I would, like, my kid does something wrong, like I have to be like authoritative and in my mind I'm thinking if you only knew how much worse I was than what you're doing right now, but I would never say that to my child, right? And therefore it makes it hard to have that lovey-love because why? I'm freaked out of my minds that they'll eventually be like me.
Not always, okay? I'm saying, not by every person, but it does come up quite, quite often. So the ability to not azanra them, or to azanra them, to raish them, to דן אותם לכף זכות, it becomes this milchemet pnimis of like really accepting myself and looking at myself favorably, and the mechaber is saying get out of your head. Go figure this out. Why should it be on their cheshbon? Your kids are not your therapy.
Sounds funny, it's, it's... I can't... how many people come to the office. This is the bottom, after talk schmoozing three hours, God knows, five months over inyanim in the house.
The bottom line is your kids are not your therapy. They're their whole world. Yes, they look like you. They act like you a little bit.
Don't you think that Hashem was more creative than than than than creating a k'filim? How do you say a kafil? Clones? That's what Hashem is busy with? Cloning?But when I just see me or who I who who they may become which is like me, then ve'ahavta l'reacha kamocha, forget it. I haven't, I'm I'm 30, I'm 50, I'm 70. I still don't know how to love myself. You want me to love them? This is me.
I'm sorry, they don't fall into that world.So Rachel, to get back to you now, it's very clear, I think.To be able to to you want an example, and forget about the word chaverut right now. But I think that it's it's very important to understand that our children are not our, A, they're not our property, but they're our achrayus. It's like a weird, they're not our property, they're pikdonos, like Reb Meyer and Bruria. Remember the famous story with the, it's a whole other thing.
They're our, they're our pikadon. A pikadon is a deposit. It's like Hashem is saying, saying, here, while you go through this program, I'm trusting you with a shtickel of me while while you're here right now. And therefore, the live examples that we want of how this works will not really help us unless we first remember what's in our midst.
And when I remember what's in my, in our midst, then I approach it again, and it looks a little bit differently.I'm just going to end with this. It's a story I've said a few times. The first day that the Rebbe, and to say these words now with these all these tzadikim in the lines over here is so special. If you look, this is just easy, don't worry, even if your eyesight's shvach.
You see the middle, the top middle is the Baal Shem Tov, right? Underneath him is the Maggid of Mezritch, directly underneath him. Underneath him is directly underneath him is, Aryella, can you see the third one? The third big circle. Yaakov Yitzchak, the Chozeh. No, above, no no, above that.
Elimelech of Lizhensk?
הרבי ר' מיילך מליז'נסק. The Noam Elimelech.The Noam Elimelech, the first night that his child was born and they're in and and they were in the house, Reb Melech was learning with some of his Chasidim in the other room, and they were waiting for him to come out of the room where the where the baby was in the crib or whatever they used to, you know, wherever they used to put kids to shluff back then. The baby, his son, was Reb Lazer. Reb Lazer of of the there's a sefer I think, Imrei Eliezer, I don't remember exactly.
Reb Lazer, the son of the Noam Elimelech. And the Chasidim could hear that the Rebbe Reb Melech was crying, crying, crying. But they noticed that it wasn't just crying of hisragshus, of of of of emotions. There was something else in his tears.
They could hear it. So the Rebbe Reb Melech comes and sits and learns with them and the Chasidim said, Rebbe, what? We heard there was something different in those tears. The crying was a shtickel different. What was, what was going on there? So the Rebbe Reb Melech said, this is the first night that I really feel that the Ribono Shel Olam trusts me and my wife with a piece of him.
And I know that no matter how hard I'll try, I'll never ever do, give it the ideal of the ideal that we spoke about Alex. So I'm already asking mechila this first night of it being in my midst for not doing as good as I know that this shtickel elokus deserves. But I'm also blown away that the Ribono Shel Olam trusts me to give it my best shot. And the whole experience is just so awesome.So when the baby is born into this fresh package of godliness wrapped up in a in a little blanket that and and remember, when the babies are first born, they sleep for hours, and you're like, oh, it's not so hard.
Like marriage, shana rishona, the beginning of shana rishona. Everyone said it's so hard. You're on vacation. It's not vacation.
And then things start to, then life, then the next shlav of life. So I think that for all of these things to be le'maiseh, it's not on the child to be in awe that they are children of these parents. It's on the parent to be in awe that Hashem trusts them with the piece of him. But the awe cannot be an awe that freezes us and puts us into frenzy and that you can't you can't you say I can't I can I can never do it what it deserves.
I have to, I shouldn't even try. It's got to be this positioning of saying, okay, this is really, really beyond me. This is amazing. Hashem trusts me with this.
This is incredible, beyond this world, and I want to give it my best shot. My best shot is the way that I learn is that it has to be both the level of love and friendship, while at the same time it has to be also authoritative. So, I would say that instead of saying friendship, I would say love. Just for now.
Love. That there's ve'ahavta lereiacha kamocha there. And when that's there, then even when they hear the authority and the chinuch, the underlying theme of the chinuch is also love. Yes, that's what they hear.
They hear it because you know you've you've blessed, you've davened over this. You've cried over this so much that when you come out with authority, they hear, I'm saying this because I mamash love you so much. Right? But like Lauri brought up, I don't know if you had the kavanah to go there, is that don't think for a second you could do this stuff if what's going on in here is inner disgust and self-persecution. There's no chance.
It doesn't work. You could fake that with friends and as a rav or a rebbetzin or a mechanech outside the home. You cannot fake this stuff if inside that's what's still happening between you and your own neshamah. There's no way.
Ein sikui. So this is why the avodah here is so big, so awesome, and so worthwhile. So worthwhile. Yes, Sarah.I I was debating saying this, but I want to say it.
I think this amazing shiur goes really hand in hand with Alana's parenting course and I just think of so many examples that she gave in class that are mamash what what we're saying here, so I just wanted to.And I want to replug it because I'm a beneficiary of that shiur for a number of years already. Okay. She's when she shows up in this shiur, it's like close to like when Rav Weinberger came and sat in shul and I think I could say divrei Elokim chaim in front of him. And when she, it's the same thing.
You don't have to tell her that I said this, but I I I highly recommend it.Her class mamash goes step by step how to how to do this.Yeah. So, and you know what? Maybe it won't work for every person, but these are the things we we should invest in trying to taste as much as we can by making efforts to see because there's because there's no one that I know that says, if I get to this one day it'll be nice, but I have other things to attend to first. Who could chas ve'shalom, I don't want to I don't want to ever be associated with anyone like that, right? This is the basar. This is the flesh.
Whether whether you don't have kids yet or your kids are out of the, it doesn't matter. It's just like a whole world of of chinuch, of, I mean, what what's the title of this shiur? Da es yeladecha, is getting getting to know them and getting to know yourself and getting to know what Hashem had in mind by blessing us with such matanot. Be'ezrat Hashem we'll continue this next week. It should be a week full of besoros tovos for everybody.