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Ministry Wives & Women is a podcast for ministry wives and women seeking encouragement, spiritual depth, and honest conversation for the journey of faith. everyday life, and the challenges of church leadership. Hosted by Andrea Griffith, each episode offers thoughtful wisdom, real stories, and gospel-centered hope to help women live with greater resilience, authenticity, and grace in every season.
[00:00] [Ann Wilson] I find when I go to Jesus first, I'm way better. Lord, here's what I'm feeling, here's what I'm struggling with, where are you in it? And then when I can talk to him about it and also talk to a friend, that's helpful. We as women can make our husbands better and shine if we're secure in our own gifts and our strengths.
[00:20] [Andrea Griffith] I think what you've just pointed back to is that the foundation of resilience is rooted in the gospel of grace. Welcome to the Ministry Wives and Women Podcast. This is a place where we openly address the challenging realities of ministry and point one another to Jesus and the gospel. Whether you're thriving, barely holding on, or somewhere in between, you are not alone. I'm Andrea Griffith, and each episode brings honest conversations, biblical encouragement, and stories from women who understand this calling. This podcast is part of the Church Hub, where we're committed to strengthening ministry leaders and the families who walk with them. We're so glad you're here. Welcome to the first ever podcast of The Church Hub for ministry wives. I'm Andrea Griffith, and I've been a ministry wife for 30 years, and I will be your host. And for this very first season of The Church Hub, we're going to be talking about resilience, because I don't know about you, but I need it. I need resilience in ministry. I need resilience in life. And so because life and ministry are hard, I'm leaning into resilience, trying to learn how to do it. And today I have my good friend, Ann Wilson, with me. And Ann has been Dave's wife and partner in ministry for 45 years.
[01:49] [Ann Wilson] That means we're as old as dirt.
[01:52] [Andrea Griffith] And she does not look it at all. They planted Kensington Church together and were there for 30 years. And Dave and Ann are the co-hosts of FamilyLife Today. They have 3 married sons, 7 grandchildren, and Ann is the author of 3 books. Can you tell us about your latest book that you've just written?
[02:13] [Ann Wilson] Our latest book is called, it's mostly mine, but Dave has like, he writes at the end of every chapter, which I feel like is the best part, but it's called "How to Speak Life to Your Husband When All You Want to Do is Yell at Him." Because it's really my story and, kind of a memoir of the journey that we went through of, as women, we are really, we have so much power in our relationship and we can use our words. Scripture says that death and life is in the power of the words. And so we can use our words for good or regretfully, I used mine to critique a lot or criticize, and I thought it was gonna motivate Dave and it didn't. It just discouraged him. So hopefully women will like it.
[02:58] [Andrea Griffith] I'm sure with that title and knowing you, Those books will be flying off the shelf.
[03:03] [Ann Wilson] I hope so.
[03:04] [Andrea Griffith] I have known Ann from a distance, but we've also been speakers together on the Weekend to Remember team. But honestly, the thing I love the most about Ann is that she is a friend. She's been a bright welcoming spot in my life these 3 years. It's been a rough patch, but anytime I've been around Ann, she's always seen me, and she's full of Jesus and joy. And I'm just so happy that you're here with us today. So thank you for being on the first ever for a podcast.
[03:34] [Ann Wilson] You're welcome. And, and I'm gonna tell you this, Andrea, like, you're incredible. I've met a lot of women in my lives, but in terms of a leader, a friend, an encourager, a teacher, I don't think there's anybody better that could be doing this podcast because you're remarkable. And I think so many of us as women are going to grow and glean from your experience and just from your walk with Jesus, which is really the bright spot.
[04:02] [Andrea Griffith] It's very kind. Yeah, my walk with Jesus is like the only thing that gets us through, right?
[04:08] [Ann Wilson] Exactly.
[04:09] [Andrea Griffith] Yes, we need him like so badly. Yeah, so you and Dave are always going everywhere. We are. Where is the most recent place you've been and what ministry have you just been doing recently?
[04:21] [Ann Wilson] Well, we're the host for FamilyLife Today. And so that is this incredible joy that we have in our lives because we get to sit at this table and interview people that are passionate about God, but God's put something on their heart that they wanna talk about. So that's probably our most recent kind of work-wise. But we also do a lot of FamilyLife Weekend to Remember conferences, as you and Trent do. And we do vertical marriage conferences. We just did one a few weeks ago in Ohio. And man, just to sit with people, to hear their journey, to hear their struggle, but to hear— I just heard from this girl yesterday and she emailed me, to say, "Ann, I just want you to know that as you guys talked about Jesus, when I was at work, I was just struggling, like thinking about my husband, how he's not on the same page." And she said, "I went into the bathroom at work and I got on my knees." I'm like, "What? You got on your knees in the bathroom?" And she said, "I just surrendered everything, you know." And so that's one of the most fun little stories that I've had recently in ministry that's really like, that's the kind of thing that gives you that little boost, that little uplift, like, Lord, you are working. Working.
[05:35] [Andrea Griffith] And whether it's surrendering at work, on the bathroom floor, or wherever. Yes. That surrender is such the key. Yes. I feel like it has been for me.
[05:44] [Ann Wilson] Me too.
[05:44] [Andrea Griffith] Just surrendering and letting Jesus take control because I'm really not in control anyway.
[05:50] [Ann Wilson] We think we are, but we never are.
[05:52] [Andrea Griffith] No, no, no. So this first season of the Church Hub podcast, I really want to talk about resilience. And honestly, the reason I wanted to talk about resilience is because I need it. I need to grow. I need to learn. I need to walk more in resilience. My first tendency is just to withdraw or pull away. And yet, if God's given me ministry or people, my family, I need to hang in there.
[06:24] [Ann Wilson] To step into it.
[06:25] [Andrea Griffith] Yes.
[06:26] [Ann Wilson] When we don't want to.
[06:27] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, instead of pull out. And I listen to FamilyLife Today every day. And if you're watching this, you can see we're in the beautiful studios of FamilyLife. FamilyLife. And so, listening to you every day on FamilyLife, I know you are a woman of resilience. And when I looked up that word in the dictionary, it literally just said, "To bounce back." Oh, that's good, isn't it? I need it, yes. And I— to bounce back, and I needed a little more of that. So, I kind of put together a working definition just as resilience is the strength to endure hardship, suffering, suffering and challenges without losing faith, hope, or love. It's the grace-driven capacity to persevere through difficulties. And I've seen you do that.
[07:23] [Ann Wilson] Oh.
[07:24] [Andrea Griffith] And so I'm wondering this morning, can you think of a time when you most needed to be resilient, and how did the Lord sustain you through that?
[07:36] [Ann Wilson] It's so funny, the thing that just popped into my head was a time I was— we had started our church, it was probably 5 years old, but it had grown pretty quickly. So I was speaking to a group of women, maybe 1,000 women at our church, and it was scary, but this was before anybody was being really honest and authentic about their past, their pain, their trauma. And God had really been healing a lot of things in my life, and he had really been taking me on this journey about my sexual abuse. And I just felt like back then nobody was talking about it. And so at this event, I decided, and I had prayed like, "Lord, this feels scary to me, but I feel like you've been healing me so much, and I feel like you've been setting me free. So Father God, will you use my story to maybe help somebody else be set free?" So I shared that, was, um, I went through my whole journey of the past, shared my sexual abuse. And you don't always know what women are thinking or feeling in the moment. And so that, you know, as you're speaking, I'm thinking, I hope this is resonating. Maybe it's not, you know, do they think, what is she doing? 'Cause it was such a different day. But at the end of it, I went backstage and this woman that I have respected, admire, She gave me a card, and she just handed it to me and walked away. And that's always like, "Oh, no. Did she think it was bad?" And so, I looked at the card on the way home, and it said, "You glorified Satan today." And Andrea, there's not anything that could have crushed me more. If she would have said, "You stunk today," or, "You shouldn't have done it," but, "You glorified Satan?" Yeah. I went home, and this is what, this is what especially I did back then. I went into hiding because I felt like I failed God. I felt embarrassed. I felt shame. I felt like nobody, like, I guess nobody related, but I did have people come up and say, I mean, this line of women that were like, that has happened to me. I've never told anybody, but man, I do the same thing. I wanna hide and not see anybody. Yeah. And so I had had a friend I had recently told, hey, we had asked each other, when you're triggered or when you're feeling overwhelmed, what do you do? And I said, I pull back. I'm not resilient. I pull back and I hide. And she said, what do you mean? What? How do you hide? I said, I don't wanna talk to anybody. I wanna stay in my house or I wanna do my own thing. I don't even wanna see people. Because I'm just trying to figure it out in my head. And she said, "I will never let you do that again." And so I had told her and asked her to pray for me before that talk. And so I get home and the phone, she was there and the phone is already ringing and I don't answer. Ringing, no answer. I went a day. And so she had called me probably 20 times. And then she comes to my door. Oh, wow. And she's pounding on the door and she goes to a window. I'm in the house. She goes— and I had little kids, you know, we're all running around. I go, I hear her yelling, pounding on the window, say, "I know you're in there and I know you're hiding and I'm praying for you. And I want you to open this door so I can pray for you." Wow. And it was the greatest step of letting somebody know, this is what I do when I'm feeling overwhelmed or feel of shame that I hide. And her stepping into that with me, I didn't have the resilience to be able to go forward. And I didn't even at that time, I was in my early 30s. I wasn't sure how to do it. And man, there's something about having people that know what you do and your tendencies. There's so many different things that we can— that God helps us to be resilient. But my sister in Christ, man, she's been— she's really been helpful to me, because I couldn't pull myself out of it at that time. I needed somebody besides Jesus to pull me out.
[11:57] [Andrea Griffith] She sounds like an incredible friend.
[11:59] [Ann Wilson] She is a great friend.
[12:01] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah. And also, that would never have happened if you hadn't first been willing to be vulnerable enough to share, "This is what I do." Isn't that a good question?
[12:13] [Ann Wilson] Yeah. Like, what do you do? What did you do? Like, when you are at a point where you said you wanna pull back at times, what's your tendency? Is that it?
[12:22] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, that's exactly mine. I hide.
[12:25] [Ann Wilson] Oh, gosh.
[12:26] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, I hide, I withdraw. I just think about Adam and Eve.
[12:30] [Ann Wilson] Yes.
[12:31] [Andrea Griffith] And that helps me feel like, oh, That's what we do in our fallenness. Yes. In our brokenness.
[12:37] [Ann Wilson] We hide. Yeah. And we all have different ways we hide.
[12:40] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah. And when we feel shame, we just run to whatever we do. And that could— I think for some people that's trying to fix it. Yeah. I also go to despair a lot. Like, I can despair and withdraw.
[12:54] [Ann Wilson] I eat.
[12:55] [Andrea Griffith] You eat?
[12:55] [Ann Wilson] Yes.
[12:56] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah. And I think some people, their tendency is to fight.
[12:59] [Ann Wilson] Yes. You know?
[13:01] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah. So, I think we have these different tendencies.
[13:04] [Ann Wilson] Me too.
[13:05] [Andrea Griffith] But I'm so grateful, one, for your vulnerability to your friend, or she wouldn't have known to—
[13:12] [Ann Wilson] To come and get me.
[13:13] [Andrea Griffith] Yes. I've gotta go and get this girl.
[13:15] [Ann Wilson] Yes.
[13:15] [Andrea Griffith] And I'm so glad that she did.
[13:17] [Ann Wilson] I know. And I think that we have to have some girlfriends that we can trust, that walk with Jesus, that when we share our junk, They're not gonna judge us, but they're also not going to always get in the muck with us and just whine about it. They will listen, they'll empathize, but then they'll say, "Let's go to the throne," you know, "of Jesus together and talk about it." I think that's the greatest gift in ministry that we can have is a really good, trusted friend, because women in ministry can sometimes feel lonely. Especially pastors' wives.
[13:55] [Andrea Griffith] Yes. Ooh.
[13:55] [Ann Wilson] Very, yeah. Because you don't even know, can I share something?
[13:59] [Andrea Griffith] Right.
[13:59] [Ann Wilson] You know?
[14:00] [Andrea Griffith] Is this safe?
[14:01] [Ann Wilson] Exactly. Yeah. Is it safe? Am I betraying my husband if I share something hard? And so, those are some really good discussions to have in ministry.
[14:10] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah. I remember a time in a small group that I shared, we'd broken up, the men were in a different room, and the women were together. And I don't remember the exact issues, but I just remember I was really struggling. I think I was just wondering, am I up for this challenge? Am I up for this task? And so, we were planting a church, it was new. And I said that to the women in the room, and it just got silent. There were just—
[14:39] [Ann Wilson] Well, what did you say?
[14:40] [Andrea Griffith] I just said, "I'm really struggling. I don't feel like I have what I need to be the person that I need to be. I'm being pulled in a million directions." Good for you for saying that.
[14:52] [Ann Wilson] But then it was silent.
[14:53] [Andrea Griffith] There was just crickets. You know, no one is talking. And I just remember that silence feeling so awkward and just like, "Um, what do I do now?" And finally, one older lady in the group just said, "Our pastor's wife has just let us know that she's struggling. Let's pray." And I was so grateful, you know, for someone stepping in and just praying for me. But I remember leaving that time and just thinking, "Oh, wow." Do I just need to stay zipped up all the time? Is there a safe place for pastors' wives to share, you know?
[15:33] [Ann Wilson] Do you think there is a safe place?
[15:36] [Andrea Griffith] I have found some.
[15:38] [Ann Wilson] Mm-hmm.
[15:39] [Andrea Griffith] I have found some. First of all, just with Jesus, just bringing my heart to Jesus.
[15:43] [Ann Wilson] And I think it's important to go there first, don't you?
[15:46] [Andrea Griffith] Oh, for sure.
[15:47] [Ann Wilson] 'Cause I have a tendency, I could go to my friends, like I have a couple that are really close, and it's my natural tendency to just wanna call 'em. Them. Yes. Like, "What do you think of this?" Or, "He did this." And I can whine a little bit about it. But I find when I go to Jesus first, I'm way better. Yes. Sometimes it doesn't feel as satisfying at first, you know. But when I go to him and I tell him everything that I'm feeling, it's kind of that lament. "Lord, here's what I'm feeling. Here's what I'm struggling with. Where are you in it?" And then when I can talk to him about it and also talk to a friend, that's helpful.
[16:26] [Andrea Griffith] Because, gee, for me, Jesus is the only one who can change my heart. Exactly. My friend can listen and empathize and all of those things, but I need a heart change. Yes. Either healing, or maybe there's an area I need to repent, or something I need to believe, I need to have some faith. And Jesus is the one who gives me that.
[16:47] [Ann Wilson] The encourager, but also the convictor. Yes. Yeah.
[16:51] [Andrea Griffith] For sure. And then that friend then can come along and be a help.
[16:56] [Ann Wilson] And an accountability partner in it.
[16:58] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah, and for you, somebody to chase you down.
[17:01] [Ann Wilson] Exactly.
[17:02] [Andrea Griffith] So, I feel like I've had to pray for those friends. Me too.
[17:07] [Ann Wilson] It has to be the right friend, especially if you're in ministry and you're a leader or pastor's wife, because you have to have somebody really safe that you know will not gossip, will not share, will not judge. And I have to have somebody I need somebody that will tell me the truth. I— it's nice to have friends that are like, "You're amazing," but I have to have someone, and that's my friend Michelle, that she'll tell me the hard things too. Like, "Ann, I think you're being too hard on Dave," or, "I think you're looking at this in the wrong way." I really appreciate that.
[17:40] [Andrea Griffith] Yeah.
[17:41] [Ann Wilson] It's not always easy to hear, and I can get a little defensive at first, but then I circle back and I'm like, "Thank you for sharing that. Like, I needed to hear that and be reminded of it." Those wise counselors. And Dave gave me the permission, because when we first went into ministry, I said, first of all, I said I never wanted to be a pastor's wife, because I thought there was a stigma. I had to be a certain person, a certain way. And Dave, I remember him saying, "I want you to be who God made you to be." Yes. And he also said, "And if you need to tell people I'm an idiot," If you need to tell a friend that, go ahead, because you need to share sometimes that I'm frustrating to you. And I know I'm frustrating to Dave, probably more so than he is to me. And it's somebody that believes in us, that we can trust, that has our back. And so, if you don't have that as a woman, find and pray for that person. Sometimes that older woman can be really helpful too.
[18:41] [Andrea Griffith] Yes, yes, that's been so true for me.
[18:43] [Ann Wilson] Me too.
[18:44] [Andrea Griffith] So, me hearing you say that you never wanted to be a pastor's wife, 'cause when I look at you, I just think you are the epitome of a pastor's wife.
[18:55] [Ann Wilson] No, I look at you and think that. I'm like, "That's what she should be.
[18:57] [Andrea Griffith] I do not have any of that." Just your strength, and your insight, and your kindness. You have all of that. And I know you mentor, and have mentored, so many women, even athletes' wives, and different things. So, as you came to know the Lord, and you just grew in some of that understanding, understanding before you were a pastor's wife. What did you know were your spiritual gifts as you were like walking into this?
[19:23] [Ann Wilson] Yeah, I didn't grow up in a Christian home. So spiritual gifts, the first time I heard that, like, what? And I think it was in college. I, you know, I've probably taken so many spiritual gifts tests because you go into different things and they have 'em. So mine, my first one is leadership. My second one is teaching. And I would say, like, and these are kind of, you know, those first two are my definite first two. And then I also have evangelism, which is interesting. Those are my, probably my top three.
[19:59] [Andrea Griffith] And we've talked a little bit before about your leadership gift. And I've always wondered this, I trip over this a lot of times. How do you navigate the tension between supporting your husband's leadership and maintaining your own leadership identity? How do you navigate those two things? 'Cause I feel like both you and Dave are strong leaders. And we just said your gift, it's a spiritual gift. God wants you to use it. But how do you navigate the tension between those?
[20:33] [Ann Wilson] I think Dave has navigated it really well because when we do leadership stuff, my leadership is probably a little higher than his. That can be incredibly intimidating for a man. And as a strong woman, especially back in, like, we went into ministry in the '80s, there weren't a lot of women in leadership. And so I didn't know what to do with it. And I also saw Dave's, and I wanted to fan the flame with that too. 'Cause he is a leader. He's been an athlete forever. He's always a captain. And so I think as women, we can get lost in what is my role? Should I usurp him? Should I outshine him? Do I need to pull back? Do I need to let him go first? One time we were in a meeting together at church and we came out of the meeting and this is so, he goes, and he doesn't even recall this, but for me, this was a big one. And he goes, I'm so sorry that I even said it. But he goes, can you not just pray first every time. And I'm like, "Oh, boy." And you know, like, if there's quiet, I always have a prayer in my head and I like to pray. And so, I've never thought about holding that back. But man, that kind of crushed me for a minute. And so, then I get a— I'm a little feisty, Andrea. I can either pull back or get that feistiness and be like, "Oh, am I just—" And I didn't say this today, but I'm like, "Oh, I just had to be this quiet little woman in the background? Is that what I'm supposed to be?" And I wasn't sure how to navigate that. And it's funny, I didn't even bring that up till just recently. And we've been in ministry together for 45 years. And he goes, "I said that?" And, you know, to me it was this monumental, like, yes. And he said, "Man, that was like, I love that you pray or you pray first or you lead. But I think Dave's had to find his security in his own leadership gifts. Because as he's done that, he's now pushing me out in front." But I've been a little like, it's been tricky because I can be strong as a leader. And with men, I'm always calculating how to use that in a way that will be helpful, encouraging. But I think for me, it's been really helpful to fan the flame of Dave's leadership gift. But I also think it's— it's as wise women, we're always praying in the midst of, "Lord, what do you want me to say?" I think out of my insecurity, I used to say a lot more than I should have. I grew up in a family that was pushing me to lead. And like, I think my dad was always fanning that flame. But to ask the question, "Lord, what do you want me to say right now? Should I step into this? Should I step back?" And that has been so helpful because there's times that Dave is way better at stepping into something. And there's other times he'll look at me, 'cause I can kind of read the room of what's going on. And he'll look at me like, "What's happening?" And I can feel it. And so, he gives me that look of, "Go for it." And I've probably stepped way into it more than I should in my leadership. I feel like I've failed a lot in that. But I do know this, we were at a meeting, maybe you guys were there. Did you hear Jeannie and Howard Hendricks? I did not. Oh, okay. They came to a meeting with all the speakers for FamilyLife before you guys were on the team. And Jeannie Hendricks Howard is one of our mentors in terms of, he was a teacher at Dallas Seminary. He's an author, he's a communicator unlike any other. And then his wife, Jeannie, she seemed more quiet, really all put together, like loves Jesus. This. But we were just with the women, and the women said to Jeannie, we're like, "What is it like to be married to this huge personality, this leader? Like, do you get lost in the midst of his presence?" And she's like pretty calm and cool. And she says, "Oh, girls." She said, "I know something about Howie that nobody else knows." And we're all like, "Oh, we're getting the dirt on this dude," you know? So we're all leaning forward in our chairs. And we're— and she goes, She goes, "Howard would be nothing without me." And we're, you know, we're all rolling, laughing, because she's not arrogant or prideful. And she said it with a little smirk. But I think there's some truth in that, in terms of we, as women, can make our husbands better and shine if we're secure in our own gifts and our strengths. And if we're— I could find myself wallowing at times and feeling sorry for my myself, instead of just being content with Jesus of— and asking him, "Where do you have me in my life at this time?" Because that builds resilience in us as we're talking to him about our role, what he wants from us, how do we use this gift, when does he want it to kind of like be subtle, and when does he want it to like move out into the light really big? But it's tricky, isn't it?
[25:49] [Andrea Griffith] It is tricky, but I loved what you said. A lot of what I heard is there's growth. Like, you have grown in that. Dave has grown in that. And so, that's really hopeful, you know, that where we are right now, maybe we're misstepping a little bit. Yeah. 'Cause it's tricky to know, when do I move forward? When do I hold back? But even if there's some missteps along the way, I'm still growing and my husband's still growing and God is God.
[26:19] [Ann Wilson] And we still are, and we never have it figured out.
[26:21] [Andrea Griffith] No, no. In fact, literally this week, Trent had to pull me aside and say, "Andrea, you have superpowers in this area of relationship." Yeah. "But when we're in these high-powered meetings, I need you to hold back a little and let me lead." And it was just, you know, crushing because I was asking, I was like, "Lord, what do you want me to say here? What do you not want me to say?" But it was really helpful when he just said to me, "I need you in this area." And it was a little bit the same thing, reading the room, knowing what was going on. And he said, "You have a superpower there, but when it comes to," numbers or doing something first. I need you to hold back a little. I've got this. And just him telling me that was helpful in my growth. You weren't offended at all? I was— it stung a little. You know, it stung. But at the same time, I know I'm not there yet. Me neither. There is a tension here for me between letting him lead or me leading. Me too.
[27:38] [Ann Wilson] I think you're a good leader. Do you have a leadership gift too?
[27:42] [Andrea Griffith] It's in there in my spiritual gifts. It's not one of the top ones, but it is in there.
[27:46] [Ann Wilson] I see it in you. I think you're a really good leader. Is teaching your first gift?
[27:51] [Andrea Griffith] It's the second. My first is hospitality. Oh, I was gonna say, it has to be hospitality. I did not know that. So that was a surprise to me.
[27:58] [Ann Wilson] Every time I'm around you, like, I wish I had that hospitality gift.
[28:01] [Andrea Griffith] That's funny. I like the gift of hospitality. Yeah, because I feel like you can use it anywhere. You can use it with kids who need to be seen. You can use it greeting people that are just walking in. It's not only in your home. Yes. Like, I feel like you can use it anywhere. Just valuing people and seeing them.
[28:22] [Ann Wilson] You're masterful at it. Like, when a person— doesn't matter where you are— when a person walks into your presence, they feel at home. Oh, that is my prayer. They feel encouraged. They feel seen. They feel like you're a safe place. And that's like a home, you know?
[28:37] [Andrea Griffith] That is my prayer. So thank you for that.
[28:40] [Ann Wilson] It's being answered.
[28:41] [Andrea Griffith] Thank you for that. You talked about this a little bit with your story about getting that note from the lady saying, "You have glorified Satan." I can't even imagine because I know your heart and your heart is just to glorify Jesus.
[28:57] [Ann Wilson] Yes. Yeah.
[28:57] [Andrea Griffith] So I heard you when you said, That was like the worst thing anybody could have said. So besides Michelle showing up and banging on your door and not letting you hide, what else did you do to come out of that? What did Jesus say to you? Or what did you do to find that gospel footing again, so that you could move out of that criticism?
[29:22] [Ann Wilson] I think the greatest thing that I've learned in ministry over the years, is that I have to be in the Word of God. Like, it is my anchor. Jesus is my anchor. But I'm constantly in a battle in my head. Culturally, the culture is constantly trying to disciple us. The gospel is like, this is— it's over here. But the culture is always trying to pull us. And so, So as I'm in the Word, and I'm reminded of the sweetness of the Gospel, and God's grace and mercy to us, I see who he is in the Scripture, and I also see who I am in his eyes, who he says that I am. And Andrea, I don't know, I can go 3 days without being in the Word, and feel like I'm being pulled this way. But the Word continues to anchor me. Jesus is my anchor. The Word keeps my eyes on him. And I know that when my kids were little and somebody would say that, I'm like, "Well, if I had time, I could read the Word every day." But I've been going through the One Year Bible for years. But there's something about reading it or listening. If you have kids and you can't like sit down and get chunks of time, put it on when you're in the car. That has been the very, very best thing that has changed me more than like my walk with God. There's certain things, my walk with God, being with him, Being in the Word, a friend, like, because like, let's say I'm in that spot where I just can't get out of the muck. I'm just stuck. I'm not resilient. When I read the Word, and I go through the One Year Bible because I just tried to start the Chronological Bible, and I can't do it. I got to March, I'm like, "I can't do this one." Okay, had to go back. Because the One Year Bible has the Old Testament, New Testament, a Psalm, and a Proverb. And sometimes, if I'm in the Old Testament, I'm in Leviticus, I'm like, "Ugh." And there's always good stuff in it. But man, if— and God always teaches. There's something about being in the Psalms too, or the New Testament, or the Old Testament. Each one brings something. But man, it just lights my heart on fire of being with God in his presence, reminds me of the gospel. It is the place that I go. And there's a, and we all know all those steps that we should take. But for me, that's been my biggest way of getting out of being stuck.
[31:57] [Andrea Griffith] Yes, he speaks to us.
[31:59] [Ann Wilson] He sees us. Yes, it's alive and active. Yes. Sharper than a two-edged sword. It just, oh, yes.
[32:04] [Andrea Griffith] He knows exactly what's going on in our relationships, in the situation. And he just speaks when we open his word. And it's such a gift.
[32:13] [Ann Wilson] And sometimes I'll read, I'm like, Yes! Like, "Lord, yes, you just spoke to me." And other times it's like, "Oh," you know? Yes. It's every day. 'Cause I used to say, you know, when people said, "What's more important, the Holy Spirit or, you know, would you rather have a convert or Spirit-filled Christian?" And I'm like, "All I wanna know is I wish I would be walking with Jesus as one of his disciples." And the Holy Spirit can feel distant for me sometimes. But he's not. It is walking with him every day, right beside us, as we're in the Word too.
[32:46] [Andrea Griffith] He never leaves us or forsakes us, ever. So good. Yeah. And so I think what you've just pointed back to is that the foundation of resilience is rooted in the gospel of grace. Yes. It's his grace. It's his grace. So thank you so much for being with me for this very first podcast.
[33:06] [Ann Wilson] I'm so happy to be with you. And what a great podcast to encourage women in ministry, leaders, church wives, all of that. This is gonna be really good, Andrea. I'm excited for you and for your listeners.
[33:19] [Andrea Griffith] Thank you, Ann. I'm excited too. So thank you so much for joining us today in our first episode of The Church Hub for Ministry Wives. I don't know about you, but I'm fighting hard to be resilient, and as Ann just reminded that resilience is just baked and rooted in a gospel of grace, being in the Word. So even as we go forward, we're gonna continue to talk about resilience, and I'll have Ann with me again just to talk about how do we be resilient when we're trying to be authentic, and maybe it's not being received as well as we've hoped. So hope to see you see you next time on The Church Hub. Thanks for joining us today. If you'd like to learn more about The Church Hub and how we're strengthening ministry leaders and the families who walk with them, you can visit thechurchhub.org. Until we meet again, I'll be praying that you experience the nearness of Jesus.