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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the Silvercore podcast.
Silvercore has been providing its
members with the skills and knowledge
necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years.
And we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.
If you enjoy the positive
and educational content.
Please let others know by sharing,
commenting, and following so that
you can join in on everything
that Silvercore stands for.
If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the
Silvercore club and community,
visit our website at silvercore.
ca.
He was an extremely talented footballer
in his youth, representing England for
the English school's football association.
Association of the age of 16 and is
now the co founder of the multi million
pound technical clothing company through
dark In between those times, he served
an impressive 13 years of distinguished
and decorated military service, 10
with the UK special forces, SPS.
And his last three years as a
highly decorated chief sniper
instructor and demolitions expert.
He's written the book.
The hard road will take you
home and stars in the hit show.
Who dares wins.
I can assure you today's guest comes
with some phenomenal stories to tell.
Welcome to the Silvercore podcast.
Anthony Stas, Stasiker.
Staz: Travis.
Wow.
What an introduction that is.
Um, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
It's an absolute pleasure.
And I'm, uh, I'm looking
forward to this conversation.
Travis Bader: So am I, so am I, you know,
at least I wasn't up at, uh, well, zero
to 30, like it was a couple of days ago.
And I was a, a day early for our podcast,
getting everything prepped and ready.
And anyway, a day earlier
Staz: is better than an hour late
as I was, uh, in our original dates.
Yeah.
HR had slipped, but I didn't tell anybody.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
It all works out, you know, so through
darks, a UK based company, I'm over
here on the West coast of Canada.
And I first learned about
through dark right here in
the Silvercore podcast studio.
I was sitting down and chatting
with a friend of mine, Seb Lavoie,
he's ex head BC RCMP ERT, and he's
wearing a through dark shirt, and I
guess the ADHD kicks in and I'm like.
What's this through dark thing
about never heard of it before.
He goes off.
He's like a couple of tier
one special forces guys.
They got together, the technical clothing
company, they apply the same mentality
and that they learn through special
forces, the fit, the finish, the customer
service, every step along the way, you
know, you're dealing with professionals.
And I thought, all right, I'll bite.
I go on and pick up a couple of shirts.
Cause I'm six, six, 250 pounds
and big and tall usually means.
Big and wide, and it
doesn't really work for me.
And so I picked out these
shirts, they fit awesome.
And if you've looked over the, I don't
know, the last 30 or so episodes, you'll
see me sporting a through dark shirt.
And in this one, I've got one
of the through dark hoodies on.
So thank you for making
some phenomenal kit.
Love it.
It's, it's amazing.
Staz: Thank you, Travis.
No, thank you and appreciate
you flying the flag.
Also, it was, uh, it's good to see it
and kind of crazy as well, considering,
you know, we are a UK based company.
You're correct.
It's it's all what the majority 90
percent of our business or 95 percent
of our business is direct consumer.
Everything's online.
You know, if you've ever, uh, Looked
at through darker on any kind of social
media platform or, or browse the website.
You will probably know that our
geeks will attack you from all
angles, from email and once you,
once you've got on there, that's it.
We've got, we've got, we've
got, we've got you in.
So, um, no, I appreciate that.
And it's, um, it's been an
incredible journey, I guess.
And we can cover off on this, I think
from, you know, um, let's start at
the start, you know, in terms of
myself and a small bio, and then
we can talk all the way through.
In terms of how I've ended up, you
know, with myself and Louis, uh, Louis
Tinsley, the co founder of Threwdown.
So yeah, I had, um, you know, I kind
of, from England, I grew up, um, in the
north of England, Lancashire, Wigan.
Um, it's a town that's renowned for
playing rugby league, uh, and eating pies.
That's pretty much the only two good
things that come out of, out of Wigan.
I had a fairly normal upbringing, an
older sibling, uh, my brother Andrew's a
couple of, couple of years older than me.
Um, it was kind of blue collar upbringing,
you know, I just remember being outdoors
lots, getting up to mischief, you know,
bikes and just causing chaos like any,
any kid does, I guess, and skateboarding
and biking and, but just being outdoors.
That's the main thing I remember is
just always being outside and having
fun, you know, and enjoying life.
Um, having a few scuffles along the way
and playing sport and rugby in particular.
Um, and then I guess around the age
of six, that's the kind of, when
I first had my, my first sort of
taste of, of, of adversity, I guess.
Um, my parents split up, they,
they, uh, became divorced.
So, what that meant for me and my
older brother, we, we relocated
to Nottingham, or Nottinghamshire.
Mansfield is a pit village, pit town, uh,
in the kind of East Midlands of the UK.
And, you know, life changes, doesn't it?
You know, you're sort of
dislocated, removed from that,
that position there in Wigan.
And, and, you know, you're thrust
into a new environment, new,
new kids, new school, new teams.
And I remember one of the first things
actually turning up to, to my, you
know, the school and immediately I've,
I don't know if you've been to England,
but there's about 40, 40 different.
Um, kind of dialects and languages
and accents knowing from Manchester
to Liverpool, to Scottish, to Welsh,
to East Midlands, to the South, to
London, to Cockneys, to everything.
So I had quite a Northern twang
turned up at, you know, in Mansfield.
I sounded different, looked different,
you know, everything that I was good at in
terms of sport and rugby, you know, there
wasn't a rugby post or goal in sight.
It had all changed to football
or soccer as you guys probably.
I had to learn quite quickly out
of a few, you know, you have a few
fights, you sort of find your position
and your rank of order within that.
Within the school.
Um, and that, that was me then sort
of continuing then on to play sport.
You know, I'd always been quite
a sporty person, not necessarily
academic, but that's not to say that,
you know, I didn't enjoy school.
I probably just enjoyed
school for the same reasons.
Most people do, you know, it was the
social aspect, you know, and sport in
particular, so I started to play soccer.
Um, got quite good at soccer
around about the age of 10, 11.
Um, I started getting involved with a
professional, uh, football team, a local
football team called Mansfield Town.
And then that's when I guess I
had my, my main sort of, uh, my
main kick in the balls, I guess.
And my main, um, face of adversity
was when my mum passed away suddenly.
You know, it was a, it
was a brain hemorrhage.
I was 11 years old, you
know, and it was overnight.
You know, fortunately I was
staying with my, my father at the
time up north and yeah, my world
sort of changed, uh, inextricably
overnight and my brothers as well.
So we were then in a house with a
stepfather that we, you know, and
with hindsight now I can look back
and say, you know, that must have
been a very difficult period of.
for him as well to deal with, you
know, losing his wife, but now he's
got two kids that aren't his kids,
you know, and, and we were, we
weren't especially easy kids, I guess.
Um, so I can look back now and with
hindsight, uh, and, and feel, uh, um, feel
quite differently about that, but, you
know, but ultimately we were two kids and
we were left with a, with a stepfather.
And thankfully, um, my
grandparents, my mother's.
Parents relocated from Wigan.
They moved down to Nottingham.
You know, we, they bought a small
little bungalow in the, in the
village, a little three bed bungalow.
Me and my brother moved in with them.
So you have that readjustment then again.
Well, next thing I'm living with the
two old people, you know, in my opinion,
they're too old people and, you know,
and, and, and I just transitioned
into secondary school as well.
And again, looking back now, what.
What an, what a, an ultimate
sacrifice, you know, from, from, from
my grandparents to move down huge.
To sell their house, to move away
from their, their friends, their loved
ones, you know, to ultimately bring up
and support me and my older brother.
And they did a, a, a fucking
fantastic job of that.
And I'll be forever in debt
to, to, to those, you know, to,
to amazing people to this day.
And, you know, so that's
where I was at 11.
I started playing football more, I guess.
What did it do to me?
It shook me to my core, but what it did
do, I guess, looking back now, is it, it
really lit a fire in my belly, you know,
it made me quite angry at the world,
you know, why, why has this happened?
But thankfully, I kind of, uh, harnessed
and honed in on that, on that, on
that anger, you know, and that fire.
Yeah, and really put it into, into sport
and in particular football, soccer.
So I then started playing for a
professional team and I go all the way
through sort of secondary school, quite
turbulent time, you know, again, not
very academic getting into chaos and
mischief, but football was my one kind of.
My one star, the North sort of star that
I, that I was kind of really focused on.
And I put all my eggs and
energy into that basket.
You know, I was playing at high level.
I was representing England school boys.
It's the highest sort of
level that you can get to.
I was affiliated with premier league
football clubs, et cetera, et cetera.
Uh, but I also used to like
racing motocross as well.
Travis probably most.
But young boys do.
And I remember leaving, I was at Fulham
at the time, again, Premier League
football team training really well.
I was again, England, you know,
everything was going great.
And we were, we, we'd sort
of finished the season.
We're back home for a
few weeks rest and break.
I think it was a Christmas break
and sort of them sort of having the
guys talk to me and say, look, go
back, just maintain your fitness.
Look after yourselves.
Don't play football.
Don't do any sort of sport.
Kind of keep yourself ticking over
and main thing, don't get injured.
You know, I think we all
know what this story is.
I went back, ripped it up with my
mates on the local motocross track
and dislocated my knee pretty badly.
And to remember at the time thinking,
shit, you know, this isn't good.
And then trying to push the bike back in
the garage while my granddad's looking
at me, who's my biggest supporter.
You know, he'd never missed a football
match in his life, took me to all the
games all over the country, all over, you
know, and, and him just sort of looking
at me thinking, what have you done?
And it was trying to hide that.
Anyway, I sort of rehabbed for
a bit, went back to Fulham, um,
told my dad an accident, sort of
jogging or something like that.
Um, they, Cess the knee had a scan.
I needed surgery.
They put me through surgery.
I had rehab my first game
back My knee went again.
I just sort of remember thinking oh
shit I've kind of shot this now and this
and that's a pivotal age for Becoming
while getting a YTS a youth sort of
scholarship at that at that time.
I was released from there at that
point It was a quick reassessment.
What can I do?
I then went to college who joined
West Nottinghamshire College on a BTEC
National Diploma in Sports Science.
That was a two year course.
I start rehabbing playing football again.
I'm getting paid to play football, all
this kind of stuff, semi professionally,
but also whilst being at college, just
kind of fun, the college side of things.
I then start representing the
British Colleges team, so the whole
of the British Colleges, you know.
Um, I start playing for those guys.
We actually came across to America.
Uh, there's a big tournament at
the University of South Carolina.
We played the American All Stars.
I think we beat them 9 0
or something ridiculous.
Uh, and while we were there, um, there
was, there was loads of scouts there from
different universities around the country,
and I got offered a full scholarship,
um, you know, one of the universities
there, and that was all going ahead,
filled out all the forms, uh, incorrectly
filled, two weeks before I'm flying,
you know, I, I, Uh, the coach gets in
touch with me, like, what have you done?
Like, what?
I filled out an amateur
eligibility form incorrectly.
You know, it was basic questions.
Have you been paid to play?
Yes.
Have you, have you had a contract?
Yes.
Have you ever received royalties?
Yes.
You know, that's, those things are
quite normal and part and parcel of
the UK sort of, um, football system.
Anyway, the college, the league
deemed me to be a professional.
I couldn't play in, in what is
then amateur, uh, league over
there in terms of the university.
So that kind of put a stop to that.
I then left college kind of at a bit of
a miss and, and just went on a bit of a
rampage for a couple of years, just going
out, you know, still playing football,
semi professionally being paid, but,
you know, drinking and, and that ages
well, you know, you're, you're finding
women and everything else and you're
just, you're just being a young boy,
aren't you really, you know, not really
just trying to understand who you are.
Um, I work, I then go and work
in a local council run gym.
I become a gym instructor,
you know, a personal trainer.
Fitness has been a big part of my life.
And around this time, sort
of, uh, Iraq was kicking off.
Uh, you know, you had the twin
towers and all this stuff.
And I started thinking, I
started reading books as well.
Books that are, that interested me.
Travis, things that I was
like, you know, I wasn't.
Being voluntold to read at school.
It was like, well, what interests me?
Like the military and
history and everything else.
And what
Travis Bader: are the
zero immediate action?
Staz: Exactly.
You know, and those were big books for me
and really planted a seed in my head in
terms of, and look, I thought I kind of
felt like I still had some more to give.
I was like, is this it is.
You know, and, and I felt like I'd almost
made it as a professional footballer.
And is this going to
be me working in a gym?
And that's not to slight on
people that work in gyms.
I just, for me, I thought, fuck,
I thought I had more to give.
And so I started looking at the
military and oddly, nobody from my
family had been in the military before.
So it's not like it was a path that
was, that was, was, was well trodden.
Um, so I started looking at what is
the best, the hardest sort of basic
infantry course that you can do.
And for us in the UK, it was, it was a
toss up between the Royal Marine Commandos
or the Parachute Regiment, you know.
Um, I went into the local Armed
Forces Careers Office in Nottingham
and it was, uh, a big Royal Marine
stood in front of me and, you know,
he sort of led me down that path.
So anyway, I start going through all
the tests and all the bits and pieces
to join the Royal Marines commandos.
I then, I then became obsessed with the
Royal Marines, you know, and passing,
you know, I joined day one, week one
at the commando training center, Royal
Marines in Limston and, um, you know,
bright eyed, bushy tailed and oversized
suit and a suitcase in my hand.
And that was me for 32 weeks, uh,
you know, and fortunately passed.
The whole course as a, as an original.
So I didn't get back to you.
I didn't become injured.
I also received, I also received the, um,
King's badge award for the top recruit.
And I had the PT medal for being
the fittest guy on the troop.
So I was kind of like, look,
this is, this is my calling.
This is me.
More importantly, I just, I fucking
love the soldier inside of that.
I love just kind of crawling
around and just the dirt, you know,
just being a soldier, I guess.
And, but also the camaraderie as well
that was associated in that brotherhood
that was attached to the military really
kind of resonated with me and spoke to me.
So at the end of that 32 weeks,
you know, I passed out, uh, fucking
snakes and ladders, isn't it?
You know, life's a game
of snakes and ladders.
You know, it's one minute you're
at the top, you've just been, You
know, you've had your coveted green
beret and your stripes put on your
commando and I'm like, yes, that's me.
And you, you join a commando unit and it's
all the way back down again, you know,
and you're the new, you're the new kid.
Um, so I joined, uh, 40
Commando Royal Marines.
I deployed, uh, in January.
I went out.
To my, on my first operational deployment
to Kabul, Afghanistan, the capital and
yeah, sort of a boy in a man's world,
you know, learn a lot on that, on that
first tour, you know, um, and yeah,
very eye opening, uh, things that we
can go into in more detail if we want,
but yeah, that was a real eye opening
tour for me, but also on that first
tour import, more importantly, that was
my first exposure to special forces.
I stood on the gates.
Uh, part of my remit when I
wasn't out doing patrols would
be to man gate and, and the, and
the, the security of the camp.
And in roles, a couple of kind
of civilian, uh, SUVs, out steps.
A load of guys, big hair,
big beers, just looking cool.
Flannel shirts, jeans, different
weapons systems, optics radios,
you know, but they had British,
uh, identification at that point.
It was like, fuck are these
guys, you know, sign me up.
Somebody told.
Yeah, somebody told me who they were.
I then started looking more into
that and into that sort of stuff
and, you know, and I think that
really planted the seed for me.
So after that tour, I went back
into the Royal Marines, um,
I had selection on my mind.
I started looking into it.
I then put myself forward for the Royal
Marine Sniper Course, again, probably
arguably the hardest infantry course
that you can do within the Royal Marines.
It's very highly regarded
as a high attrition rate.
Uh, again, straight onto that course,
um, passed with a distinction.
And I remember, uh, funny story.
The, the guy, the chief instructor for
the course, um, we'll leave it, we'll
leave his name out of this, but, um, we
didn't get on too well, he was a bit of
a bully, you know, um, he, I later found
out he'd failed selection numerous times,
um, but anyway, at the end of the course,
he's sitting in his office and he's like,
okay, what, what congratulations, you've
got a distinction pass, um, what sniper
billet do you want in the whole Marines?
I, which unit, which sniper
troop do you want to go into?
And I said, look, I, uh, Um, I don't, I'm
going on selection, you know, probably
quite, um, you know, arrogantly at a
time, you know, 21, 22 years old, you
know, um, and he sort of just sat back,
nearly spat his tea out and sort of
laughed, literally laughed in my face.
Like, you know, good luck with that.
You know, good luck with that.
That's a different cat, you
know, a whole new ball game.
So I left that kind of thinking.
You know, he's just absolutely
thrown doubt at me and put it again.
It just lit a little fire for me.
Another little fire to burn away and
another reason to really dig into that.
So I left, I went back to the unit
for a bit and then I, that was me.
I was everything.
My soul focus, uh, and, and, and
my whole being was consumed by
passing special forces selection.
I, uh, went on a briefing
course down here in pool.
Um, that's a prerequisite for
being loaded onto the joint
UK special forces selection.
Uh, it's a week long, it's probably, as
you can imagine, just a week's beasting,
you know, and it's an opportunity
for you to have a slight look at the
unit and them to have a look at you.
Uh, and there's certain tests within
that week that you have to pass
physically and mentally and aptitude,
all that kind of stuff, which I passed.
I was then loaded on to the, um,
selection, uh, zero two zero eight.
So summer zero.
What kind of tests were those?
Are you allowed to say physical test?
Yeah, it was a physical test.
Everything from the, the, uh, combat
fitness test, where it's a certain
weight, certain time things that, you
know, if you don't even pass them,
just don't even bother, you know,
sort of carrying on, um, everything.
And then to probably still to this
day, one of the hardest yumps or
tabs, tabs that I'd ever done.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Staz: All those, all those fun things.
Um, and it was over the, the Jurassic
coast down here in pool and, um, it
was, it's called the roller coaster.
Uh, you know, so, and it's a timed March
of 26 K with 70, 80 pounds on your back.
And I was an absolute snotty
mess by the end of that.
Well, it was an eye opener really just to
show you the kind of level that they were
looking at and the barrier to entry And
then there's the shooting stuff as well
You have to be a basic, not basic, a very
high standard of shooting and map reading
and you know Observation and military
knowledge and understanding etc So then
I'm loaded on to the joint selection
process And there's different phases.
Phase one is in Wales and that is the
hills phase Uh, and again, that's, for
me, that's just really focusing on your
mental and physical robustness, uh,
over that four week period and your
navigational skills, uh, and abilities.
It's all individual.
Everything is individual.
It's timed marches.
Can you make the grade?
Here's the bar.
Here's the bar.
You know, and anybody that falls below
that bar is just chopped and for context,
there was probably 240 people turned up
day one on my course and six of us that
passed at the end for, for the SBS SAS.
So again, a high attrition rate.
Um, so at the end of that, that
phase on the hills, uh, you then, uh,
back, you then go into the jungle,
sort of five weeks, acclimatization
for the first week, beastings up and
down the beaches, then you're flown
under the canopy for four weeks.
Four weeks.
Uh, and that's more focused around
team, you know, again, very physically
demanding, but it's all around, um,
how you communicate, uh, effectively
and efficiently within the team.
A lot of selection, there's
a steep learning curve.
It's, can you, uh, put into
practice what you're being told?
You know, they say the basics were very
high standard, you know, consistently is
probably the message there throughout.
Um, it's like groundhog day, but it's
just keep turning up, keep, keep churning.
Um, and it's, again, a war of attrition,
really people that are there at the end.
What's the mental game on that?
Like, Oh, I'd say it's horrendous, you
know, because most of the, most of the,
most of the pressure is applied to and
from yourself, you know, because you're
constantly evaluating your own performance
rather than just saying, look, I'm here.
As long as I'm here, you know, don't
sort of talk yourself out of anything.
And, and that happens a lot.
A lot of people, they'll make a mistake
and it might not be a critical mistake,
you know, because most of the times,
you know, you do make a, there's
safety errors and violations that you
can do some more serious than others,
you know, and some are straight.
off, get on the chopper, you're out
of there, you know, uh, and some are,
well, okay, that's, that's a kind of
a two strike rule, you know, it's,
it's unsafe, but not, not terribly
unsafe that someone might die.
It's just a mistake, you know, but
there's certain things that are put in
place and you're in a four man team,
you know, so how you, you work together
as a team is very, very important, you
know, and, and, but also I think what
selection does very well over that.
Period of six, six to nine months.
Is it, it really reveals your true
character, you know, who are you,
you know, and we all talk about these
masks that people wear day to day.
And there's a Japanese
problem, isn't there?
There's three masks, one mask that
you want to show everybody and
everybody gets to see that mask.
We wear it daily, you know, and how I
want to be presented and perceived by
the world, you know, and my colleagues
and my peers and my loved ones.
And then there's a mask that,
you know, that's, that's the mask
you want to show to everybody.
And then when you go home.
You can remove that mask and you can
kind of be yourself, you know, around the
people that know you the most and your
friends, your loved ones and your family.
And, you know, that's probably a true
reflection really of who you are, uh, but
then the actual mask of who you are is
the last mask and, and it isn't a mask.
It's you, it's the person
looking back in the mirror.
It's the person, it's the person that
you are when nobody's around, you
know, when you're on your own, how you
talk to yourself and daily, you know,
and, and how you treat yourself and
other people and what you think about
yourself and what you do when nobody's
watching, you know, that's a real.
Test of, of, of kind of who you are.
Um, but, you know, sometimes it's,
it's, it's ugly and sometimes it,
it's, it's beautiful, you know?
And, and that's the, the, the,
uh, I guess the juxtaposition of,
of, of life, isn't it, I guess.
But would you train that mask?
Would you train?
No, I think I can.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think you can, but selection
is designed in such a way that it
will remove your masks, you know?
And there's only so much training.
You can do until ultimately that
selection process will break you
down physically and mentally.
You are at your lowest.
You know, it's the hardest I've ever
pushed myself physically and mentally,
and you can't be anyone but yourself and
who you are, you know, and there's certain
characteristics that they're looking for.
How do you act like when you're
under pressure, you know, and what
type of person are you when the
chips are really down, you know,
and you're, you're at your lowest.
Would you give your last mouthful of food?
to your friend who needs it more
than you, you know, and how do you
communicate to people when you're so
tired, you know, and frustrated, you
know, because it makes a difference
because selection is just selection,
you know, and what I didn't realize
until I did pass selection up until that
point, it was the hardest thing I did.
And then I went on tour with the
squadrons and was like, Oh, wow.
Now I understand.
I get it.
I understand why it's made in such a
way and why they're looking for such.
Um, unique characteristics within people,
you know, and the jungle really does that.
It really does for me, um, amplify how
you feel, but in such a small environment
and you have one directing staff with
you 24 seven, you know, there's no hiding
and, and also the people that do wear
the masks, even in the trees that slip
through, they get found out by other
people around them as well, you know, and.
Uh, and that gets exposed as well, and
rightfully so, you know, you don't want
anybody slipping the net, you know, and
that's not to say people don't slip the
net, some people do, you know, and not
necessarily through any fault of their
own, but because, you know, sometimes
the system, they'll get through, but then
that'll get exposed immediately within the
squadrons, you know, and then you'll get
RTU'd, you know, back to your unit, etc.
So yeah, after the jungle phase, you
know, if you're successful, you know,
so you've got the hills, the physical,
the mental, the navigation, the jungle
is team, it's soldiering, you know, it's
finest, you know, you can soldier in the
jungle, you can fucking soldier anywhere.
Um, and it's all, uh, around the
TTPs and all that kind of stuff.
Um, you know, again, very high pressure.
Um, high risk sort of environment
you leave that and then you're on
escaping evasion, which probably for
me was the biggest kick in the balls.
Travis, I've heard that I
wasn't prepared for that.
It's the best kept secret.
Um, and because your body as well
by this stage of kind of 10 weeks
in is just, you know, I lost 10, 15
kilograms of which I don't have to lose.
You know, I'm already sort
of 12 stone went through.
So, um, you know, your body is just,
it's just grinding down, uh, mentally
and physically, it's very difficult
to still maintain that high level.
Of output.
And then you go on the run for sort
of five days low, either, you know,
in the uk, um, and it's stinking.
You know, you're, be you, you, you're
moving through a corridor, um, and
you are being chased by people that
want nothing more than to catch you.
It's Marines and Paris, you
know, and little to no food.
Um, four, five days straight,
no little to no sleep.
And eventually you get caught at the
end, you know, and then you're into the
resistance to interrogation phase, which
is, you know, 36 hours of professional
interrogation, you know, with all
the things that you have laid into
that as well, which I won't go into
too much detail about, but yeah, that
was a, that was a fucking crazy time,
you know, but for me, that was the.
The, the, the, the hardest thing about
that was physically, it was hard, but
mentally, that was probably one of the
most difficult things I did because
you're, you are left to your own
devices, your own thoughts, you know,
in stress positions and everything else.
And you're being interrogated, et cetera.
And you're, you're so fucking tired.
You know, I can't explain it.
Did
Travis Bader: you think about.
Just throwing it in saying,
ah, that's it for me.
Or was that ever an option?
Staz: No, no, I didn't.
Um, and I think, I think you can't, if
you hold on to any form of quit or reason,
uh, and, and people pull themselves
off for, that sounds weird, doesn't it?
People pull themselves off.
People remove themselves from
the course for all sorts of.
Weird and wonderful reasons
and excuses, I call them.
Uh, I didn't go on
selection with an excuse.
I didn't have anything waiting for me.
For me, it was, well, if I
don't do this, I'm gonna leave.
You know, and for me, it
was, it was all or nothing.
There was no plan B.
You know, I think if you have a plan B,
you, you don't fucking, you don't, you
won't, um, you won't execute on plan A.
Uh, and a lot of people do well, I've got
this, if I, you know, I could have done
it, but I didn't want to, and this, and
I've got this way in a home and my missus
is this, and I've got an opportunity to
go and do this and like, what the fuck
for me, that's the wrong type of attitude
to bring to a course like, um, so at the
end of the escape and evasion, again,
I'm now looking like an else, which
victim I can, I've lost even more weight.
Uh, less food, tired,
uh, could sleep for days.
You then go into the skills sort
of phase in terms of the TDI, the
weapons and respect SWAT basically,
uh, element of selection, you know,
Resi masks, explosions, abseiling,
all that kind of good stuff.
All the fun stuff.
Yeah.
But again, you know, the, the, the
course and the standards are set, you
know, and you've got to fucking shoot
straight and move quick and take on
information while when you're not down
range, you're, you're being showed new
kit and equipment and radios and com and
you have to assimilate that information
and put that into practice as well.
And at the end of that, you're pretty much
on the way there to being successfully,
uh, badged, which I was, I went down
the pool, uh, received my, uh, quite an
unassuming, um, ceremony, you receive your
belt and your beret, um, and then that's
it, you're into, into the squadrons, I
guess, and then I did my boat handling
course, my, uh, swimmer canoeist course,
uh, and all that kind of stuff, and
then I was in, that was me then for 10
years, you know, in the special boat
service, and I had, uh, you know, as
you said earlier, uh, decorated and,
and, Fabulous fucking career of which
I'm extremely, extremely grateful for.
I met some incredible people, you know,
um, probably arguably one of the, uh,
what it was at the time, the busiest
operational time for the service,
you know, it was overseas, it was.
back to back deployments and, you
know, and all of my deployments were
different, you know, and I was very,
very fortunate, you know, that said,
and I use the word fortunate hopefully
in the right context, you know, we lost
guys and had some shitty times as well,
but you know, what a, what a amazing,
amazing career and life I've had up
until that point and all the courses and
it wasn't just war fighting, you know,
we went away and did some fantastic
core free fall courses in America.
I was in mobility troops.
I did lots of things with, you
know, motocross and all the
kind of cool stuff that you do.
Uh, but it was, it was fucking rock star,
you know, for me, for me, it was the best
job in the world, you know, um, but it
was the most selfish job in the world.
You know, it took its
toll on my first marriage.
Um, you know, so at the end of
kind of 2000 and sort of 16, 17,
you know, as a sergeant, I was
kind of moving through the ranks.
I'd done all this cool stuff,
all the operations, and then
I moved into a training role.
I was the chief sniper instructor for
the unit that included everything from
sort of pistol to CQC and everything
long range as well, as you'd expect.
Um, and then I moved back into
one of the squadrons as one
of the operations seniors.
Um, but I'd kind of
looking back now, I guess.
I went on all the command courses and
bits and pieces and the wind was just
kind of not being favorable anymore.
It was out of my sails and I just
thought, fuck it, I need to change it.
I've, I want to end on a
high, you know, I want.
Change course and direction.
I've spent the best part of 13 years
in the military, you know, the most
defining sort of years of my life.
I feel like and felt like I'd given
enough, you know, I'd sacrificed enough.
Um, but, you know, selfishly, I've
learned so much as well, which I
thought I could apply externally.
To the military, so
around about this time.
Um, the other, the co the
co-founder of Thda, Louis Tinsley,
a very, very good friend of mine.
We'd been friends since we were
in the Marines back in 2006.
He was leaving the, the service.
He was also in the SBS.
Um, we served together, but albeit
we were in different squadrons, but
always remained very tight, very close,
uh, he was being medically discharged
from the service, from injury.
Like most, most of the guys
are, we're all carrying, uh.
Uh, bad injuries, um, and we sort
of started talking about what,
what it could look like on the
outside and what the options were.
And look, you know, most people with
our skill sets, you know, you're,
you're, you're looking at security,
very well paid, very well paid, uh,
yeah, uh, close protection jobs, et
cetera, which a lot of my friends
did out in Dubai and other places.
And we did a bit of that as we were
leaving the service and transitioning
into ThruDark and ThruDark was born.
The idea was born whilst
we were still serving.
Um, you know, we, we, we, we
just cherry pick some great jobs.
We were working the Superbowls and
working for the NBA and UK and America.
And with a couple of cool dudes,
Street and Sonny that we knew from
America, you know, they, they, you
know, looked after us with those jobs.
But, you know, we also, we were all chips
in physically, mentally, everything.
We put our own savings.
And we, um, aligned with a very
good personal friend of ours,
Steve Clark, who's the founding
investor of through dark.
Um, he's been here from the start
with us and he sort of backed us
from the very beginning and believed
in our idea and our passion.
Um, so yeah, I mean, like most fucking
good plans are formulated, it all
starts over 10 beers in the local pub.
Ian, Louis and Steve and he knew we were
leaving and sort of started picking our
brains a little bit like what are you guys
doing when you're leaving I just assumed
you're going into security and I know
you've been doing a little bit of that
but what is your actual, what's the plan?
So we spoke to him about ThruDark you
know and um, and what that could look
like and I guess Fucking hell, looking
back, you need a lot of naivety, don't
you, for like your whole life, I guess.
For sure.
And, you know, we, we sort of, we'd
used some of the world's best kit
and equipment, you know, in special
forces from weapons and optics and
clothing, you know, some of the big
brands, which I know we all know about.
And, but we'd still thought
that, You know, naively, well,
why haven't they done this?
And why does it look like that?
It's not fit for purpose for this.
And I think we can tweak
that and make it better.
And you know, how hard can it be almost?
Um, so off we went and we left and we
set up, you know, we had a small sort of
founding investment between myself, Louie
and Steve, and off we, off we popped,
you know, we were in a small office,
a corner office that Steve gave to us.
Uh, and.
We were off to the races, you know, and
we had a few products to start with.
And over the six, seven years now that
through dark has been going to where we
are now looking back and it, look, it's
not too dissimilar to any startup story.
Is it?
You know, it all starts in
a pretty incredible room.
Yeah, but it's, you know, it's, we had
an idea, we had a vision, we had a goal.
And some of, well, a lot of the, um,
things that we learned within the
military are transferable, you know,
everything, basic things like the
whiteboard, you know, long term borrowed
from work in my front room through dark.
And we still got, I've got an
image of that on my phone and
it's not too dissimilar to what
we've actually executed on.
Um, but look, me, it's, it's about.
Fucking hell, looking back now, is
business harder than special forces?
Fucking absolutely is, you
know, uh, for different reasons,
you know, and it's difficult.
There's a lot of pressure, you know,
and for me, my situation is slightly
different to Louis, but you know, I've
got three boys, three amazing kids, you
know, I've got a wife and everything
else to support and it's difficult.
You know, I left 33 years old.
And I think for me, I just
reframed it differently in my mind.
I thought, look, through that, let's,
let's, this is now the new North star.
And this is what we're going to move
towards, you know, with the passion
and the purpose and the energy, the
enthusiasm, everything that we've
done throughout our times in our
lives up to this point, you know,
we will make it a success, you
know, and we'll just keep pushing.
But that said, I guess my worst
case was always that I could
fall back into the service.
You know, I could always go back with
my tail between my legs over to the.
the SPS and say, look, it's not worked.
Can I go back?
And, and we're quite guilty of that.
Sometimes as people, we forget to sort
of stop sometimes and say like, actually
where I am right now and what I have is
what I wanted and nothing more than five
years, you know, and that's important.
Um, so I thought I could always
go back and do that, or I
could go and work security.
That's fine.
fine.
Um, but ultimately me and Louis were
just so focused on, on, on the brand and
through dark and what we wanted it to be
and how we wanted to, to, um, one first
and foremost revolve around products,
you know, the product being perfect,
um, or as close to perfect as possible.
You know, it was high performance,
technical outdoor clothing.
We design, develop and
test everything ourselves.
So it's, it's authentic.
It's credible.
We have a cool story.
Uh, and it's us too.
It's founder led.
You know, and, um, for the
most part, people can see
that and don't get me wrong.
We've been very fortunate with our
network and people that we know, you
know, we have a lot of friends and
ambassadors, you know, and people
that have helped us out along the
way and really given us a leg up.
You know, if we look back at our inception
video and the people that we lent into
for that, it's been incredible, you know,
and other people across social media and
the platforms that they've, you know,
that they've grown and had themselves.
So, but it's all new.
Everything's a learning
sort of phase, isn't it?
For us.
And it's been incredible, but right
now, as I'm sort of sitting here now,
it's kind of six years in and the
company's going from strength to strength
year on year, it's been doubling,
you know, we are sort of 35 to 39.
Soon to be 39 full time staff,
you know, that doesn't include
the agency support and bits and
pieces and you know, and it's, it's
still feels incredibly close knit.
You know, there's a lot of values
and ethos that we brought across
that hopefully has been applied and
runs through the core of the company.
You know, um, we've just moved
premises again into a new space and.
As you can imagine, it's
all being painted black.
The paint is dry.
Yeah.
And look, we've got ideas for all
sorts of weird and wonderful and cool
things in terms of product really,
but we're fortunate that we've kind
of built the teams around like we
did in the military and, and, um,
the success of the businesses.
It's absolutely, fundamentally associated
to those people that we currently
have right now in the business.
You know, it's, there's only so
far you want to go fast, go alone.
You want to go far, you know, go together.
And I know that's cliched, but you
know, you've got to be very careful
and very, um, uh, cognizant of who you
allow into your circle and your business
and your table, because that's super,
Travis Bader: super important.
Who do you allow into your
circle business and table?
Staz: Well, it's different.
So if it's, if it's personal
circles, then that, that's
sort of, that's very different.
And that's, that's built up through
trust, you know, uh, and years, I guess,
and, and, and it has to be earned.
Um, if it's, you know, cause
I'm quite a loyal person, if I'm
friends with somebody, that's it,
we're, you know, we're locked in.
But I think the business perspective
is different, you know, you still have
to lean into that, that, that respect
and, and, and earning the respect.
But as the business grows now, you
know, I think special forces for me is.
It's a different environment in so much
that everybody is there not for self,
they're there for a unified mission and
a unified goal, you know, so you never
have to question that, you never have
to question why I'm about to run off the
back of a helicopter into a hail of, you
know, you know, Um, bullets because I know
the person to my left and my right has
got my back, you know, I can trust them.
They've been through that process.
They've been through a selection
process, but more importantly, we're
all there for the same reason, you know,
that same mission and goal, difficult,
different in business to do that.
You know, you have to get people
to get bought into what you're
doing and why you're doing it.
You have to have different
levels and layers.
Associated to what and why they're
doing it, you know, and, uh, and that's
difficult sometimes to get buy in and for
the most part, we've kept the majority
of the team, but some people have to fall
off, you know, and for different reasons.
And I think when you start the business,
it's like a, you know, uh, uh, year
one, it's a very small sort of wave.
You stood on the beach for probably
a shit analogy, but there's a little
wave and you're, everybody's just
on their little boogie boards and
we're all having a bit of fun.
And then year two, the waves
getting a bit bigger and you're
still boogie boarding year three.
It's now a fucking wave and you're
on a surfboard and, you know, and
you're looking at left and right,
who's still here and who can actually
surf, you know, who can swim.
Some people can't, some people
fall off the wave, you know, uh,
it's the same in, in on selection.
It's the same in business as well.
And sometimes ultimately it's not
a fault of anyone's, you know, it's
just the size of the fucking wave, you
know, and what you're asking people to
do and you need different people with
different skill sets at different.
various points throughout
the business life.
Um, so now, you know, it's year six,
year seven, the waves are getting
fucking bigger and we can see the
other sets coming down as well.
And they're going to be even bigger.
So, you know, strap in and
enjoy the fucking ride.
But in terms of characteristics
for people, it's really different.
Now there's people right now in the
business that we brought in that
are specialists and that on paper,
I thought, God, this guy's just.
It's just so different to me, you know,
it's such a, you know, a geek or just,
God, I just could never see myself
going for a beer with this person.
I judge most things like, can I
go for a beer with this person?
No.
And, but actually I've been
wrong as well in this world.
Travis Bader: You don't want
everyone to be like you.
Staz: Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
You want that diversity of opinion.
You want people to challenge you,
you know, and you need dreamers.
You need doers.
You need a mixture of
all sorts, don't you?
And I think that's what makes, makes
it beautiful, you know, because
you're in an echo chamber, aren't you?
In the military and special forces,
you know, we're all the very, my
missus used to laugh, my wife.
She's like, she can spot us a
mile off, you know, local town.
And she's like, he's from the.
Well, that guy's for, you know, cause
you just carry yourself a certain way.
You communicate a certain
way and for probably quite
some of the old guys as well.
And I think business is different,
you know, and it depends.
You've got e com teams, you've got product
teams, you know, you've got customer
support teams, you've got directors,
you've got leadership team members, you've
got people that specialize in copy and
social media that are very different to.
But, you know, I think
that's what makes it great.
Um, and interesting as well.
And that's mine and Louis job really,
as co founders, to make sure that we
are bringing the right people in and
that they're, they're managed correctly.
But also they give them the
opportunity to, to shine,
uh, and also to fail as well.
So that's a big part of it.
You need that.
Don't micromanage people.
I'm, I'm, I'm not a micromanager.
I'm all for people coming in
and dropping the ball and then
saying, Hey, what happened?
That's fine.
I fucking hell, I dropped the, I
dropped the ball daily, Travis.
You know what I mean?
We all do.
That
Travis Bader: means you're trying,
it means you're pushing, right?
You're, you're going
beyond your boundaries.
If it's the same mistake over and over, I
tell my people, we'll have a conversation.
We'll see what it is and why
it is, but by all means, fail.
Right.
Staz: It's the only difference I've seen
though, that I have recognized from the
military and the civilian world is that
fuck those debriefs that we used to
have in the special forces are brutal.
You know, it's a, after a very quick
hot debriefs, it's like, no stone is
left unturned for obvious reasons.
But you know, the communication is
sometimes it's transactional, but for
the most part it's big board rules.
It's transformational conversation.
But, and that happens in business, but
you just have to manage that differently.
You can't speak to people.
Like you used to speak to people in the
Travis Bader: military.
Staz: I'll be getting, I'll be getting
pulled into HR, but, um, no, for the most
part, people understand and they get it.
Um, and so there's, there's been
a lot of learnings for me as well,
personally and professionally, and
I've really, really enjoyed it.
You know,
Travis Bader: people say it's
not personal, it's just business.
I don't know.
I've always been of the mindset
that business is personal business.
Is built on relationships.
These relationships take time to
establish, which require trust.
It's all personal.
And anyone who would say,
oh, this is just business.
I don't know.
I have a hard time seeing that.
I
Staz: agree with that.
And I call it, it's slightly, the
term I use is science and art.
You know, and you can put as much
science as you want into a business
and that, that, that could be a
communication platforms or your
slacks and processes and systems and
meetings and all this kind of stuff.
And, and there are absolute fundamental,
uh, positive net positives to be
had by implementing, um, uh, systems
and you have to, and they have to be
managed correctly by the, by the geeks.
Um, and that's the science element, but if
you, if you lose the art and the people.
Then very quickly, you'll lose the soul,
the substance of the company and why you
started, you know, it's founder led first
and foremost, and it's inspirational,
you know, inspire, ignite and inform
the three things I try and do every
day in the business when I'm with my
people is inspire, you know, ignite
and inform people that's communication,
but it's also leading from the front
and you can't do that on a spreadsheet.
You know, you can't do that on a
Slack communication channel, you
know, there's only so far that that
science can take you, you know, and,
and, and it's a fine balancing act,
isn't it to be had, but that's where,
where in lies the beauty, I guess.
I used
Travis Bader: to spend a lot of time,
like, how do I hire the perfect person?
How do I go through and just
find all these perfect attributes
only to find that I was wasting
so much time on the front end.
When I should get really
good at firing, right?
Like, and when I say good at firing,
I mean, in a way that's going to be
helpful for the person who's working
with us, if, if they're not the
right fit, I can find them work at a
friend's company or some other place.
And you know, no hard feelings
just didn't work out here.
Um, get good at firing,
not good at hiring.
I got to imagine coming from a,
uh, SF background, that's probably
something that gets ingrained in you.
I mean, you can probably spot people
a mile away going through selection.
Now he just say, yeah,
they're not going to make it.
I can see right now they
don't have those attributes.
Can you do the same in
Staz: business?
Yeah.
Um, but I could sort of touch on it
slightly a little bit before where there
is instances where I've been wrong, that's
when you lean into team, you know, because
sometimes you think, am I not seeing
something and that's why you have the.
The directing staff on Selection, you get
changed around between which DS you have.
So you get another opinion,
another set of eyeballs on you.
And then you have prayers at the end of
the process and say, Okay, Travis is up.
Okay, Travis, yeah, tell
me your thoughts on Travis.
And it goes round the room.
And the idea is that you shouldn't
be, um, your decision shouldn't
be swayed by other people.
It's not confirmation bias.
It should be, no, no, no,
this is my honest appraisal
of Travis and what I've seen.
You know, I've seen him do this
good, seen him do that bad.
He communicates like this, he
acts like that, you know, and
he does this and that, you know.
And that's, that's all I've seen.
Like, I, I, I don't know what you've
seen or what you've heard, but
that's my account of what I've seen.
And that should then Inform, uh, the,
the larger, more true narrative, I
guess, but there are instances of
where that your face just doesn't
fit, but that that's easier.
That's not just a, we don't like you.
And, but ultimately you have to be liked,
you know, you're going to be asked to work
in small teams, you know, and you could
be the best fucking soldier in the world.
You could be the best accountant in the
world, you know, in a business setting.
You don't work well with others.
That's it.
You're fucking out.
And I think that's what
experience gets you.
Look, I'm not saying experience.
I've just turned 40.
I'm still wet behind the ears, Travis.
I've got a lot to learn.
But in my short time on this planet,
you know, that's, that's what experience
and exposure to different scenarios
and people and environments gets you.
You know, and that's what I'm
grateful for, for Selection.
It, you know, it does allow myself
and Louis to Um, have very direct
conversations, but you know, we're,
we're honest and open as well.
You know, we try not to let that steer
our decision making process in terms of
how we feel towards somebody because,
but it's difficult, you know, like I
said earlier, you, you can be the best
accountant in the world, but if everybody
fucking hates you, then I'm sorry.
You know, you hire slow, fire fast.
It's that, it's that moment of
that hiring process has to be.
Delivered in such a way that it's slow,
it's slow and they get introduced to
different touch points of the business,
you know, so I'll have the first
interview, it might be just myself and
Louis and maybe one of the directors.
We'll get a feel for the
person, their skills.
And after that one,
very quickly we'll say.
This person's not gonna fit or
okay, there's something there.
Let's give them another shot An interview
and now we'll bring the specialist in
so the person's coming in for an ecom
role What the fuck do I know about
sure back end ecom, you know Specific
technological kind of questions, so I'll
get a specialist in and I'll get them
to grill him But I'm watching how he
just reacts to the questions, you know,
uh, not so much about the information
because the information, it is what it
is, it's science, it's black and white.
If the guy doesn't know what he's
talking about, the girl doesn't know
what they're talking about, that'll
get sniffed out straight away by
our, our digital director, you know.
Um, but for us, it's more about
the person, the fit, the culture,
are you going to fit in here?
And we've got all shapes and sizes
and manner of people here at ThruDoc,
and, but they each bring Really unique
skills, which, you know, are fantastic.
And sometimes it's hard because you just
need to hire somebody and you're like,
fuck, we've got a big, there's a big hole.
There's a ship, there's a hole in the
ship that needs fucking plug in quickly.
And it doesn't necessarily
have to be the perfect fit.
It just has to be plugged until
you can find the perfect fit.
And that happens, you know, and, uh, that
has happened and does happen sometimes.
Well, as long as everybody's aware of
that and what we're doing, and it's,
and it's communicated, um, honestly,
uh, with integrity, then that's fine.
So you
Travis Bader: talk about this fire in your
belly and you attribute at least some of
it to certain events in your upbringing.
Now you've got a brother,
Andrew, a couple of years older.
Did those, those events that happened to
you, some of them happened to him too.
Did they manifest in a similar way?
This is just out of straight curiosity of,
you know, nurture nature sort of thing.
Staz: Yeah, I'm not sure with
the, I think there's, there's
a bit of both, isn't there?
Nature, nurture, and you are
a product of your environment.
Absolutely.
I believe that, you know, and as kids
as well, I think, uh, you know, I've
got boys now and I'm quite cognizant of
this and I'm always, you know, trying to
develop myself and be the best version
of myself for my kids, but always within
the, I read the, uh, is it Ryan holiday?
The daily dad, have you got that?
It's yeah, I see that.
I've got the daily dad, which is
every day is just a small one.
I love that, but it just keeps you,
it keeps you aware of what you should
be doing and where you should be
striving for in terms of your kids.
They're great observers, I think,
you know, and I think great learners
and look, I'm going through it
with my eldest boy at the minute.
He's struggling a bit with
school and everything else.
And, and, but we're all different.
We're all unique.
And all three of my boys
are all very different.
You know, similar upbringings,
et cetera, et cetera.
And that's the beauty of life, isn't it?
You know, and I think for
me, my kind of path was set.
I had, you know, looking back, some pretty
traumatic experience as a kid and a lot
of setbacks, a lot of knockbacks in terms
of, you know, moving and divorce and then
losing my mom at a young age and then.
Football and failing football, and
then, you know, feeling lost and
then trying to find identity and
then joining the military and then
going all the way through that.
And then, you know, special forces
and then always trying to search for
something and, and, and then leaving
and then, you know, forming, you
know, founding ThruDark with Louis.
Um, I think for me, I've always
just wanted to push myself.
You know, physically and mentally, I'm
always doing, and who knows, I might
get to 70 years old and then actually
have to face my demons, Travis, and
understand more deeply about why I
do things, you know, and it's like
London, running the London marathon at
the end of April and all this stuff.
It's always pushing.
And, and since I left Jiu Jitsu has been
a big part of that as well, you know,
Travis Bader: training the
ears is going to pick that
Staz: up, but I think, you
know, for me, it's like.
It's difficult when you
leave the military, isn't it?
Because it's an echo
chamber that we spoke about.
You're surrounded by like
minded people and individuals.
But you have a purpose.
You have something to train
towards and something to force.
And then it's bigger than yourself.
And, and you leave.
And because you attack so much of your
identity to who you used to be, it leaves
a massive fucking hole when you leave.
And that's why a lot of people
struggle when they leave.
the military or when they leave,
you know, um, professional sport,
you know, and the statistics for
themselves, you know, a lot of people
struggle and, and it's difficult.
It's hard.
So I think for me, one of the
main focus was always been around
keeping myself physically fit.
I think that's a massive
part of, of, uh, who I am.
Uh, it keeps me sane, you know,
it's the whole oxygen mask thing
as well as a look after yourself
before other people and, um, and I
don't think that's selfish at all.
I think that for me, the morning is
always some form of physical activity
and it's been Jiu Jitsu has been a big
part of that and Sam over at Reorg, who
used to be a Royal Marine, he was a.
PTI for 20 odd years and founded
RE ORG, which is set up to help
ex veterans and people who have
left the emergency services.
Um, yeah, he's a fantastic individual.
Uh, he was the first black
belt in the Royal Marines.
Um, and he introduced me to Jiu Jitsu,
uh, you know, a few years ago when I left.
And, um, that's been a quite staples for
me, sort of training four times a week.
Um, I don't meditate, you know, I've tried
the apps and bits and pieces probably.
And in fairness, I probably
just didn't give it enough.
Time, energy or effort or commitment.
I just sort of did the usual 10
minutes for a few days and went, I
said, shit, you know, but I think
for me, like jujitsu was great.
It's perpetual, perpetual
learning, which I love.
There's no end goal.
There's no end site.
Yes.
You get the better of the
belts to train towards.
You need short term and you have the now
the near the next goals attached to that.
But ultimately it's about development.
It's about yourself.
It's about every day, not
fighting anybody else.
You're fighting yourself
almost every day, you know, and
learning more about yourself.
Travis Bader: So at a young
age, I was diagnosed with ADHD.
I'm curious.
Has anyone ever accused
you of having ADHD?
Staz: Um, I don't know.
I've looked online.
Um, I probably, I certainly
tick some of the boxes.
Um, but no, I've never had any sort
of assessment or anything like that.
I think, I think most guys
in our like minor work are.
You know, they're all strange
in some way or another, but we
don't mean strange bad either.
I think you need elements of ADHD
and, uh, and, and, uh, straight
lines and everything else.
There's a peculiar sort of
makeup of people within the
military and business as well.
I think a lot of co founders and business
owners probably share a lot of the very
similar, uh, personal characteristics.
Travis Bader: You know, there's.
Uh, a common trend that I see over
and over again, when you read through
some of the popular books out there,
special forces individuals, but they
come from backgrounds of adversity.
Do you find people in ESF community
that come from posh backgrounds
that had everything, or is that a
pretty, is that a bit of a rarity?
I
Staz: think, um, it is an
eclectic mix in Special Forces.
I remember looking left and right, and
you're always judging people, aren't you?
We do it naturally, like.
Sure.
And you look at these, okay, he's a man
mountain, what am I doing here, and shit.
And, you know, and they end up
falling off, off a cliff, you know.
And, um, you, you get all manner of
means, but the, I'd say 90 percent of
SF is made up of, What's the quote?
The bastard sons of illegitimate parents.
It's people that have had adversity,
you know, people that have had had a
real rough fucking upbringing, rough
time, you know, and people that, um,
I've got a chip on the shoulder, but
hopefully I've harnessed it in the right,
right direction for the right reasons.
Um, you know, we have ex professional
footballers, ex professional rugby
players, ex people that used to be
helicopter pilots, people that are.
And then, and then, uh, people like,
uh, what do you call, uh, travelers,
like gypsies, people from Roman
gypsy backgrounds, people that are,
um, that, that have been locked up,
people that were just, just tearaways,
cavaliers, mavericks, rogues.
You know, but ultimately we form
this band of brothers that get on
real well, you know, and, uh, and
because I think you respect, you know,
everyone's got that glint in their
eye, you know, that little bit of,
you know, special sauce or something
that's just a little bit different.
So I think, yeah, from having that fire in
my belly, that really, cause you, you need
that, you need something to hold onto when
you are at your lowest and you just have
to fucking deep and it goes beyond kind
of the physical and you really sort of.
Uh, dialing into the
mental aspect, for sure.
Travis Bader: So you were awarded
the conspicuous gallantry cross.
Did I say that one
Staz: right?
Yeah, yes.
Correct.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: Um, can you
tell me a bit about that?
Can you tell me, probably not the exact
incident, but, um, uh, what that entails?
Staz: I have, I've done it before
on a podcast and got told off.
Um, so the.
The CGC, Conspicuous Gallantry
Cross, um, I know it's different to
your guys kind of medal structure,
but, um, it's awarded for, uh,
for valor, um, on the battlefield.
So for combat, for combat action,
um, the, the structure or the only
one above that is a Victoria Cross.
That's our medal of honor.
That's our highest honor that you can
award and within special forces, if you,
if you're being awarded a VC, it's, it's
posthumously, you know, it's, you're not.
You don't live to tell that tale.
So it's the next sort of a medal down
from that, the CGC, uh, I think there
was only three that have ever been
awarded within our kind of world.
Um, and then the one below that is,
um, the military cross and then it
kind of moves down and down and down.
Um, medals are a fucking
weird one, aren't they?
You know, and I.
Chapter in my book called medal, uh,
you know, medals are for mothers.
Yeah.
Um, we certainly don't join or do
the job that we do for recognition.
We don't do it for medals, you
know, or anything like that.
Um, that's not to say that it's not nice
to be recognized for the work that you
do, but I always felt like anytime anybody
was receiving of a medal, it was always.
Um, you know, you will be receiving
that on behalf or behest of everybody
else, you know, for the whole unit
and for the squadron and for the team.
Um, the, the, the, the reason I received
my medal was I was wrote up for two
separate jobs, uh, that was kind of
combined together on one operational tour,
but this tour was slightly different.
You know, all the tours previously
I'd been with the squadrons,
but this one, it was different.
I was in Kabul, Afghanistan,
2013, and I was.
Um, I was in charge of a local partner
force, um, uh, within, within the city.
And it was a strike, uh,
element of a find and fix.
And yeah, there was a couple of jobs
there that just were huge jobs that
were multi nation I jobs that had
huge strategic and, uh, implications.
Um, yeah, I was also working above
and beyond what, uh, where I should
have been in terms of rank and.
And everything else and somebody pulled
out the job that they couldn't do it.
So I stepped up and was, you
know, an acting sort of rank
and had a lot of responsibility.
Um, and you know, I had a couple of
very successful missions off the back of
it and a few close shaves as well that
were associated to that sort of stuff.
And, um, yeah, so it's,
it's, it's a strange one.
And I write about it in my book.
It's, um, you know, I talk about medals
being for mothers and that's great.
It's nice for legacy and for other people.
You always feel slightly.
Strange receiving medals and
recognition in our world.
It's kind of, you know, and everybody
was really supportive and like most
guys are, but you know, it's, you still
sort of feel a bit, Ooh, it's strange.
And like, I'm just doing my fucking
job, like, you know, but you know, it
is what it is, but yeah, it's, it's a
different, I also mentioned actually in
the book about having to sell my medals
as well when I left the military, um,
which You know, at the time I'd left
the military, um, I was fucking, I was
super stressed, spinning multiple plates.
I was leaving the service, forming
ThruDark, and I was going through
a very difficult divorce, uh,
financial separation, etc, etc.
You know, I'm sleeping out of my friend's
cars, like just sofa surfing, uh,
my friends just in a real bad place.
Um, but, but also trying to make
things work with the business, et
cetera, et cetera, taking a lot of
risk, uh, and, and super stressed, you
know, and the, uh, actually the, the
medals got brought up as part of the
financial settlement for my divorce.
Um, my, uh, ex wife had them
valued, um, all her solicitors
did, and they, you know, no.
You know, they sort of saw it as a piece
of art, you know, it's like a the wall.
It's worth what it's worth and that
got brought into the finals, you know,
immediately I was, my initial reaction was
emotional and was fucking not a chance.
What the fuck, you know,
all this kind of stuff.
And, um, and then actually when I sort
of looked at things objectively and
removed emotion from the decision making
process, what, you know, I had the pride
element, but then I had the thought of
saying, well, actually, what will it
allow me to do if I sold these medals,
it would give me a clean financial break.
You know, I would, it would remove
all the debt across both parties.
It would put a roof over my son's
head, you know, it would give
assurances to those guys as well.
She deserved it as well, we've been
together 13 years, you know, so
absolutely, I didn't feel bad in that way.
Um, but also it would allow me to
be financially secure and set, you
know, and to move into ThruDark.
So, there's a saying, isn't
there, fucking drowning sailors
don't hold on to gold bars.
Right.
You know, and at that time,
I was fucking drowning.
Um, so will I regret the decision?
I don't know, Travis, you
know, I do have an option.
I know the person that bought them to buy
them back, you know, so if through dark
is a huge success in a few years and, you
know, I take some money off the table,
then that's an option to buy them back.
But the trinkets for me, I, the main
thing that's attached to that is.
What I did to, to, to deserve that and to
earn that, you know, you can't sell that.
So if I want the trinkets though,
and I want to put them on a wall,
then I can, I can buy that back.
You know, but when I, when I
weighed it up, like a decision,
like a business decision, it made
absolute sense to me at the time.
Travis Bader: So removing that
emotion from the decision,
is that something that, uh.
Do you have a process for doing that?
Is that something you find quite easy?
It's going to segue into
my next question, but,
Staz: um, I think, um, I
think it's a great question.
I think, and this is what I'm going to
fucking divide opinions here, but I dare
say your audience is mainly male, but I
think that's the difference, isn't it?
You know, men are from
Mars and women have.
Venus, generally speaking, and
it has its benefits and negatives
obviously attached to it.
We are quite logical creatures, you know,
and I can remove emotion for the most
part from decision making processes and
never make a decision off of emotion.
I think it's one of those
things I try and do day to day.
So anything when it when it comes to
business or life, but that can sometimes
seem like you're not an emotional person.
It's not that for me.
I think it's more about making
the right decision with all the
information that you have at the time.
And I've always tried to lead like
that, you know, and I've always
tried to live my life like that.
I'm not, don't get me wrong.
I, there's times when I've not got
it right, you know, and I am an
emotional person in so much that.
You know, I'm quick to anger sometimes,
or, you know, but I recognize that
more now in myself as I become older.
And, you know, I read things
like the chimp paradox by
professor, professor Steve Peters.
And it was really kind of turnkey lock
open my, my own thought process about
how I think about things, you know,
and that chimp brain and having the
computer and autonomous brain as well.
And, you know, it's really
helped me understand my, how
I deal with things as well.
So interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I think, you know, we are different.
And when, when you, when
you're making bigger decisions.
I think that it's, you're
wise to seek counsel.
You know, Louis is great for me.
He's somebody that I can really dial into.
And he's, you know, we're very
similar, but very different as well.
So, you know, if I'm thinking
something, I'm like, Hey Louis,
let me fucking soundboard you here.
And he'll give me an honest answer.
Honest appraisal of whatever it,
that could be anything that could
be, you know, Hey Louie, I'm
thinking about buying a new house.
What do you think?
Or Louie, what do you think about this?
You know, something a bit more
serious about medals and he'll go,
well, let's, let's look at this.
What does it look like?
You know, what are the pros?
What are the cons?
How do you feel about it?
What do you want to do?
Make a decision.
You know, no decision is a decision.
So make a fucking decision
and see it through.
You know, and, and you, and you live by
that decision and look, sometimes we get
it wrong and sometimes we get it right.
And that's the beauty of life.
Travis Bader: So Andy McNabb,
Stephen Mitchell wrote the book, uh,
tons of books, but he's written a
couple of books about the, the good
so called paths guide to success.
Have you seen those ones?
The what?
Sorry.
The good psychopaths guide to success.
Oh, the psychopaths.
Yes.
Have you seen those?
Yeah.
Staz: Yeah.
I
Travis Bader: have.
About, you know, people look
at psychopathy and they say,
oh, this is a terrible thing.
And they associate it with criminal
psychopathy or ill intent, but, but
there's also the judges and the.
And the surgeons and the, the people
who got the special forces soldiers,
they have a job to do, they've got
to go in and they've got the ability
to compartmentalize these things in a
different way than, than other people.
Um, wouldn't I'm curious about, and of
course, you know, snakes and suits, and
they talk about psychopathy within, uh,
workplaces and high level executives
and how that can be a good thing.
How can it be a bad if, if it's a,
uh, it's a negative environment.
I'm curious about your takes on that.
I remember reading the, um,
uh, uh, what did you say?
Someone asked you about PTSD.
And I, I, I got a chuckle, but he
said the PTSD, I mean, like, you
know, I'll look back at things,
but more, more in a nostalgic way.
And I don't know, you know, that could
be taken out of context, obviously,
and you don't go through a difficult
times without that imprinting in certain
ways on the brain and the body and,
and having certain reactions to it.
But the ability to work through these
difficulties and other, how otherwise
people might look at as negative
experiences, but work through it in
a way where you can find a positive
outcome is, uh, is very interesting.
And I just love to hear your thoughts.
Staz: Yeah.
Um, there's a few things to unpick there.
Um, I'll start with, I've never, I've
never actually done, there's a guy,
um, a, uh, questionnaire, isn't it?
That you can do online.
It's the psychopath sort of question.
I've never done it.
I might do it after this.
I'll report back my findings, but
I'm pretty sure I know what they are.
Um, but I think if we unpick that
sort of stuff, for me, I've always
been a very, very positive person.
I've always looked forward.
You know, the only reason, you know,
I hate, I don't live in the past.
I don't worry about things I can't
control, you know, so for me, a lot of
that worries the misuse of imagination,
you know, and day to day, that's
where most people, if you look at the
things that consume a lot of people in
terms of worry and stress, you know,
90 percent of the worry and stress
doesn't actually come to fruition.
You know, I know that's easy to say,
don't worry about what you can't control.
It's like fucking cheers, you know,
all this fucking stress I'm trying
to manage, but actually there's
a lot of truth in that, you know.
Control what you can control, write
down things, you know, make a journal
and then actually turn it into a
process driven Thought process rather
than an emotion driven process,
you know, and writing things down.
There's power in that.
Once you put pen to paper,
you see it, you can action it.
And then if you can't control
it, fucking delete it and erase
it, physically erase it off the
paper and erase it from your mind.
You know, and if it happens, it happens
you deal with it when it doesn't, you
cross the bridge when it comes to it.
But.
PTSD is such a complex situ, um, complex,
uh, and real, um, um, scenario, and, and
of which I'm not an expert, you know, uh,
clearly I'm not a, a psychologist, and
it's a very nuanced and, and difficult
conversation and topic to get into.
I've seen people that personally and
professionally that have been affected
by this, and I don't know if it's short
term or long term or what, I just don't
know if the systems are set up right
now to deal with, with, um, people in
particularly, uh, particularly well,
I don't think we fully understand.
Uh, how it affects people differently.
I think there are current, um, uh,
preventative measures and, uh, everything
else, and a lot of great work that's
being done by MAP and everybody else
that are just taking far too long to
come in, you know, and be signed off when
we can see that it's fucking working.
You know, given the context of how
serious the situation is and how many
men, you know, the biggest killer of
men right now under 40 is suicide,
you know, more people have killed
themselves than been killed in the wars.
You know, it's just.
Fucking atrocious, you know,
and I think it's not one thing.
It's, it's many things layered, um,
which makes it far more difficult to,
to kind of pin down, I guess, you know,
I'm fortunate I've never had issues.
I say I've not had issues.
I mean, a lot of my.
Um, my issues probably, uh, manifested
in different ways, like drinking too
much, you know, around that, that
kind of echo chamber of people is
a big drinking culture within the
military, within professional sport.
And it's almost encouraged, well, it
is definitely encouraged and it's a way
to open up and men talk and, you know,
but probably don't talk as we should
do, you know, we just talk 10 pints
deep and, and, and you only talk to
the people that understand, you know,
I can't speak to anybody else because.
They don't know, they don't understand
when actually we should be opening up
and having conversations and deeper and
wider, far wider conversations with other
people as well and our family and our
friends and our peers and our loved ones,
you know, and, but it's, it's a difficult
one because part of me takes quite a hard
line on it and I'm just kind of like, you
You know, that's, that's a burden where
men, you know, that's a burden that we
carry, you know, and we carry the stress,
you know, we carry that fucking can,
you know, and, and that's part of being,
being a man and being a guy and, and, and
dealing with those responsibilities, you
know, and, and that's something that we
should, we should, you know, pressure is
a privilege and we should take that on.
You know, fuck me.
It is difficult.
There's been times where, you
know, I've been super stressed and
I felt that when I was leaving.
I touched on it earlier when I was
leaving the service and, you know,
having the financial stress and worry
and not having a bed to, to lay your
head down at night and fuck out.
That's a, that's a real stress.
You know, that's not a write it down on
a piece of paper and fucking delete it.
That's a shit, where
am I sleeping tonight?
And shit, I've got no money in the
bank and oh, how am I going to do this?
And how am I going to feed my
fucking kids and my family?
You know, they're real stressors and,
um, and everybody's got different
break constraints, you know, and
everybody breaks at different, different
times and for different reasons.
And that's why it's so complex of an issue
because we're all different, you know,
and it affects people differently as well.
Travis Bader: What are the, what are
the things that keep you up at night?
Staz: Um, I think I'm quite good.
I, I'm not a massive stressor.
I, I put into practice what I've
just been preaching, you know,
and nothing keeps me up at night.
Only things that, you know, sometimes
I, right now at the moment, you know,
my granddad's not very well, you know,
he's the father figure for me, somebody
that I've looked up to and is his,
you know, his guidance and, uh, and
his values have been imprinted on me.
Um, and, you know, I think, you know,
he's not well at, you know, stage two
cancer and he's, he's not well, you know,
and that sort of stuff can, can lead to
worry and, and, and distress, but I can't
control it, you know, and, and so there's
parts and elements of me that worry about
that, but then I think it's only small
compartments of worry and that kind of.
Try and park that.
And then there's the obvious stuff
like family, isn't it in, but it's
difficult because I always look and
I'm, I'm, I fucking hate this shit
practice gratitude and all that, but
actually I think at the very start, you
know, what I have right now is what I
wanted five years ago, you know, and.
You know, a nice house.
I've got food on the table.
I've got a loving wife and brilliant
kids and great relationships and
friends and, and, and a network of
people that I can lean into, you know,
and, um, I'm so fucking fortunate.
Most of my problems, Travis, are first
world problems, you know, problem.
I think a lot of people have is that we
forget that sometimes and it just takes
a little slap across the face to go,
listen, man, just Fucking take a step
back, zoom out, you know, and look at,
do the commander's kind of appreciation
and, uh, and look, and most, most of the
times the things that are going wrong
in your life, you can fucking change.
And if you're, if you're honest
with yourself, you can change it.
If you're not happy with how
you look, fucking change it.
If you're not happy with your job, fucking
change it, you know, and I think there's.
A lot of people, uh, they, they project
outwardly to the world and become victims.
And, and I fucking, I hate that,
you know, I fucking hate that.
Um, um, so for me, I'm, I've always
been somebody that's kind of always
glass half full, but positive.
But if I want change that I fuck
it starts with me and I make the
change, you know, and it's hard.
It's fucking hard.
People turn around and it's all right.
It's okay for you.
You've got this and that and fuck you.
Listen, you've not seen what I've
done and, and, and what the things
like the sacrifices I've had to
make to get to where you are.
If you asked any.
What they've sacrificed
to get to where they were.
Everybody wants to be
the professional athlete.
Nobody wants to do what the
professional athlete has done.
Everybody wants to be in the military.
Everybody wants to be special forces.
There's no, very small percentage
of people that actually want to do
and put in the, you know, that time.
Those hard yards to become special
forces and then to actually do the job.
Because it's fucking hard.
You know, so it's, it's hard, you
know, and a lot of people talk about
the thing, you know, talking about
the thing, isn't doing the thing,
telling people you're going to do the
thing, isn't doing the fucking thing,
you know, and right now isn't doing
the thing, it's fucking do the thing.
And unfortunately, people don't
like the hard truth of just saying.
Fucking have a plan and fucking execute
on it, you know, and you train for a match
like training for a marathon I'm training
for my fucking hate running Travis, you
know, but my fucking knees and my back
and my hips are fucking script But you
know, I'm I'm doing it for a good reason
I'm doing it to give myself something
to train for and to keep myself engaged
It's for a good cause for a good charity
and I think well, let's let's work back
from what does end state look like 26?
My okay.
Well, let's get a program in place.
Let's work back and You still have
to fucking do the training and
you've still got to run the race.
I've still got to turn up at the end of
April and run the fucking race, you know.
And unfortunately a lot of people
talk themselves out of that.
Travis Bader: You talk about victim
mentality and I see that time and time
again, in our popular culture, throughout
our media, my kids, they're both in
high school right now, got a daughter
who's going to be turning 17 and a
son who's going to be turning 15 here.
Um, and I see it within the school
systems and how it's, how it's,
uh, just sort of indoctrinated.
It's always somebody
else's problem, right?
Don't get me started
on the school systems.
Oh my God.
If it's like it is over here.
Like I will specifically look for
adversity and ways to build resilience
within my children, because I can
see that as a massively lacking
thing within our school systems.
I was going to ask, what's it like
over there in the UK and what are you,
what are you doing with your kids?
Staz: Well, okay.
Now, yeah.
Um, probably very similar to be honest.
I mean.
And this isn't, this isn't sticking
the, you know, swinging the lantern
as well and saying, well, back in
my day, it was fucking different
and we used to do this and that.
Cause we've all had that.
We've all had elements of that.
And listen, the world is moving
and progressing in such a complex,
you know, fast evolving way
across how we communicate, access
to information, social media.
The pressures are different on kids than
what they were when we were younger.
They are.
And, and, um, and they have to be,
they almost have to put their own suit
of armor on to deal with that shit.
So that's its own separate topic
and subject, you know, social media
and influences and people and what
they, who they look to as their
talisman, which is fucking horrendous,
can be horrendous nowadays and
what they think is good and what.
I think is good.
It probably very different.
Um, I think it comes down
to, you mentioned it.
There was resilience, you know, um, if
you're not pushing yourself physically
and mentally, you know, you're not
fucking, you're not setting yourself
up for success moving through life.
You know, and it's I have this like
kind of I spoke before to people
about about your kids and it's a great
example of when do you tell your kids
not to do something or when is it date?
When does it become dangerous?
And like, I'll do it now.
And you know, my, my, my eldest is 12.
Lucas, I'll be seven and he was a Soon to
be three, so quite differing ages there.
But for me, it's always been like when
they climbing a tree and this is where
you're very different to the wife
because I'm like, no, no, I've got this.
I got this Watson climbed the tree.
Now you're going to let the I'm
going to let Lucas, I'm going
to let my eldest climb higher.
You know, he's pretty much free reign now.
If he falls, he falls and
that's it, you know, and, you
know, to a point, obviously.
And then you let the seven year old,
yeah, he can go to a certain height that
I'm, that I deem to be okay and safe.
And then the three year old, same again.
But you have to let them
climb the fucking tree.
Like this helicopter parenting just
does not fucking work and it's bullshit.
So I think you've got to let
them climb, be there, be around.
And so you're in a safe position
that you can stop them if they fall.
And it gets to a certain
height though, doesn't it?
Where you go.
They're climbing up and you go,
what if he falls from there?
You're doing the assessment in
your head, if he falls from there,
he'll bounce and he'll, might cry.
It won't be bad.
Then they go to the next stage of
height and you go, if he falls from
there, it's definitely gonna hurt.
It'll probably break, it
might break something.
And then there's the next height
where, fucking hell, that's
really gonna fucking hurt.
And it could be catastrophic.
And that's when you, you know,
you give them the whistle
and tell them to come down.
But you have to, they have to be allowed.
To be given that, that room to maneuver,
you know, they have to run, you know,
these parents don't stop running.
Don't run, you might fall.
They've got to fall.
You've got to get, you have to
get, you have to get gravel rash.
You know, and even when you're
older, you have to have gravel rash.
You have to understand what it's like
to touch the fucking fire, to fall off
your bike, to fall from a tree, to go
and do jiu jitsu, to fail, you know, all
these things now in school like that.
There's no winners.
There's no losers.
What the fuck is that teaching people?
You know, I just don't understand it.
It just doesn't work for me.
And the more and more we move kids
away from, you know, competition,
and sport, and physical exertion,
and that resistance, and that
resilience, I think is, that's,
that's a bad move, in my opinion.
It should, everything around school,
uh, syllabus and system should be
revolving around physical fitness.
Because if you're not fit in your mind
and your, and your body, You know,
that's just not going to transfer
well across all aspects of academia.
You know, for me personally,
I don't agree with it.
And, and they're trying to fucking
shoehorn everybody in and the
system hasn't changed for years.
I think somebody said how it was, it was,
was it the CIA who made, who developed
the school system in the U S for, for
getting little robots to sit behind desks
Travis Bader: and a couple
of different, uh, yeah,
Staz: I can fucking.
Yeah, I can believe that,
you know, and, and thought is
not like kids are brilliant.
You've ever had a conversation with kids.
It's fucking brilliant.
I love it.
I sit in the car with the kids and
I'm like, I just let them go on
this mad world that they live in.
And I think that's a beautiful thing.
It's amazing.
The creativity and the, and the
schools are just fucking none of that.
Stop that.
Stop that.
Stand in line.
Don't say anything.
Sitting a kid who wants to
sit in class for an hour.
Nobody does just be.
It's just not natural at all, you know,
and, and then they worry with them when
kids are just fidgeting around and can't
fucking sit still and they're going out
of their fucking minds and, and I think
it was the, the, the comedian Jimmy Carr.
Exactly, exactly, and then, and
then they're not exercising,
brilliant, it just adds to it.
of the fucking peril.
Um, and that kind of looking
forward thinking, what is this?
It is this fucking life.
This is fucking shit.
You know, then you, the Jimmy
Carr said it, didn't he?
The, um, um, the British comedian, if
you know Jimmy Carr, but he was saying
about like the world doesn't need
any more shit scientists, you know?
So very quickly, very quickly, we
should be looking at kids from a
young age and just be set sort of
always saying, okay, he's creative.
Okay, he's science.
He's art.
Okay, he's physical.
Okay, now let's start nurturing those
kids towards what they're very good at.
Right.
You know?
Yes, based knowledge and understanding
of maths, English, I get that.
But they don't need to be fucking
rocket scientists, you know.
I remember being sat in, and I'm
still shit at maths now, Travis.
But I run like, you know,
you would an amazing,
Travis Bader: but I got a calculator.
Staz: Exactly.
But you have, you use
that in the real world.
Mm-Hmm.
, you have systems and things and
automation and calculators to make things
I don't need to know about fucking,
you know, trigonometry and pi theorem.
It just, I've never used
that in my fucking life.
I've not looked, I'm not a,
you know, um, a biologist or
I'm not a, I just don't get it.
I don't get
Travis Bader: it.
Yeah, people double down on
an individual's deficiencies.
Oh, you're really bad at math.
We better get you, we'll get you a tutor.
Why not say, wow, you're
really good at music.
Let's get you a music tutor.
Let's double down on what you're good at.
Staz: If you, was it Einstein?
If you judge a fish by its ability to
climb a tree, it'll spend all its life
thinking it's fucking inept and stupid.
I think there's too much of that in
schools right now, you know, um, so
it just needs reforming, it needs
changing, it needs, you know, making,
something needs to be fucking changed
and unfortunately that's a big cog that
turns far too slowly, uh, you know,
it's, it's difficult at the minute, you
know, and, but this sensory overload
that, that, that kids are currently,
you know, these dopamine hits that
they're exposed to right now, it's
on a whole new fucking level, which I
don't think we're fully aware of the
implications and the effect of that.
All the long
Travis Bader: term effects of that.
Yeah.
It's going to be interesting to see.
If your son turned around and said,
dad, I want to follow in your footsteps.
I want to be a Royal Marine.
I want to try the SF route.
What would you say to him?
Let's say your eldest.
Staz: Um, I would support any
decision that he made to do anything.
If he turned around to me, Travis
said, I want to be a fucking ballerina.
I would support that.
My job as a parent is to support.
Uh, and, and, and influence to a, to,
to a degree, if it's a bad, if I think
it's a dangerous or a bad decision, I
can influence, but I've got to support.
That's my whole job.
Look, there's that analogy, isn't
there, that I'm the fucking bow, you
know, and, and I, all I need to make
sure is that the kid, the arrow, once
they're in that fucking bow, and I
fucking pull back, that's, that's
my job, to make sure that, that they
are, have the best possible chance.
of hitting the target, you know, and
I'm the bow, they're the arrow, once the
fucking arrow leaves the bow, you know,
it's over to those guys, you know, and
things happen, changes, wins, targets
move, all this stuff, but ultimately, you
know, I just, it's cliched, you want, you
know, what do you want your kids to be?
You want them to be healthy and
happy, you know, and not enough of
that at the minute, you know, what
do you want to be when you're old?
I want to be, I want to
be happy and healthy.
And, and, and.
There's not enough of that going on
at the moment, you know, it's, it's,
you've got to do this and you've got
to pass this test and if you don't
do this, it's fucking, you know, it's
so, it's suffocating for kids right
now and it's difficult because they
see on social media, this very small
window of somebody's life and think
that's it, like looking through a
fucking letterbox and going, wow,
look at that guy, they've nailed it.
Well, ultimately, I know people on
social media that are very unhappy.
Very unhappy people, but if you looked
at that fucking social media platform,
you'd think that the happiest people
on this planet, you know, and all the
shit white on there and post on there.
And I look at it and go, wow.
And I know them and I think, well,
how many other people are doing that?
Travis Bader: A lot, an awful lot.
I mean, I guess I get stuck in this whole
paradox of, well, I want to be positive.
So I'm going to portray positivity.
And so I'm always going
to put positivity out.
Why would I get on social
media to portray negativity?
But the difficult thing is you lose
Staz: authenticity, you lose
Travis Bader: authenticity.
Is what's really going to win the day.
Like I had, um, Mark Kenyon, he's with
meat eater and they've got a Netflix
show, the hunting and all the rest.
And he says, you know, I, I, I
see the path to social media fame.
You can be the hero and you can have
all the great hunts and all this stuff.
And I try yourself to sleep.
Well, that's what he said.
He says, you know, I tried going down
that route and it just didn't work.
The second I started showing my
failures, the second I started,
uh, sharing my struggles, all
of a sudden, bang, I took off.
And I think that authenticity is
what's missing a lot of times,
or people of a young age have
a hard time discerning that.
Staz: Yeah, it's hard.
You know, it is hard and
we're all guilty of it.
You know, nobody wants to show that.
The shit side of things that are
going on, but, but it's quite
refreshing sometimes, isn't it?
Just to see, you know,
the satire and the comedy.
That's why people love comedy, isn't it?
Because it's fucking, it's honest.
It's honest, and it's, and it's raw.
Travis Bader: So you're talking
about, you know, looking up
to people, guiding lights.
People need someone to look.
Who do you look up to?
Staz: Um, I look left and right.
I've got people that immediately in the
business that I, uh, that I respect,
you know, like Louie, you know, the co
founder, somebody that I can look to
professionally within the business and
in life as a, as a, as a, as a person
of value, somebody that I can trust, you
know, there's not many people that, you
know, how many people have you got on your
phone that three o'clock in the fucking
morning, I could ring him I wouldn't
have to tell him anything, other than, I
need you, can you come to me right now?
He'd fucking jump out of bed, jump in his
car, and he'd be with me, you know, um,
ASAP, you know, and how many people have
people like that in their lives, actually?
Not many.
Very few.
You know, so you gotta fucking hold
on to those people, and there's people
professionally that I have like that as
well, you know, that I, that I'm, I'm,
um, I have very much professional respect
and, and, and admiration for, uh, and
then, you know, it's, I look at people
like my wife, you know, Fucking have you
ever, you know, the job that they say
job, you know, being a parent and being
a mother is fucking hard, difficult ones
to balance and to shake out as well.
And, you know, then there's, you
know, there's other people like my
granddad, you know, that have been.
I didn't realize it till I got older,
you know, just how good of a man he
is and the values that at the time I
didn't appreciate, you know, because
when I was younger and I moved, you
know, we moved in with them and he
had old school moral values and, and
there was a lot of beauty in that.
You know, and it really
did set me up for success.
So there's people like that.
And then there's other mentors
that you meet along the way.
People that I met in the service,
in the SBS, in Special Forces.
You know, people that I looked up
to professionally, that I, you know,
I had a huge amount of respect for.
Uh, and I've been lucky in that regard,
in terms of being surrounded by, you
know, incredible leaders, um, you
know, all the way through my career.
So, you know, I have been fortunate
in that respect, that I've had
a lot of people around me to
guide and to, uh, and to help.
And support me, I guess.
Travis Bader: So what's coming
up next for through dark.
Staz: Fuck geez.
Um, loads of stuff, man.
Like I said, we're year six.
Um, it's, it's product that we're excited.
I'm excited, you know, for the
future, this next two years.
I keep saying this next two years
is going to be really vital.
And it is the main thing for me
is not so much what's coming up.
It's trying to enjoy
where we are right now.
And everybody I speak to that's
been successful are always like, Oh
my God, I wish I was a you again.
And.
Where you are right now in this amazing
growth stage of being an entrepreneur
and growing your business, growing
your brand is doubling and the
revenues are made in the valuation.
Wow.
And it's like, but actually stepping
back and I still pinch myself.
I walk into the office.
I'm like, fuck, you
know, all these people.
And, you know, it's incredible.
We're all going on this journey
together, you know, dark and
it's, and it's inspiring.
And, yeah.
Um, you know, but there's obvious things
that I have and goals that I have,
you know, that I want to hit along
the way, you know, you know, in terms
of launching product and, uh, working
with specific brands and partners
and people and, and everything else.
It's about, um, aligning to things that
we feel that do correctly align with
our values, uh, through dark as well.
And, but it's hard, it's, um.
You can only fit so many bits of fruit in
your basket, you know, and I've learned
that along the way I'm terrible for it,
always trying to shove fucker fruit in
the basket and ultimately things fall off.
But for me, it's about staying true to who
we are and what our vision is and our, and
our, and our brand ethos and our goals.
You know, we want to be a world
leading outdoor technical clothing
brand that just looks cool as fuck
that people see it and they go.
That's through that.
Yeah.
They're not fucking sold out.
They are who they are.
Their brand is their brand.
And, you know, and that starts with
the founders mentality with me and
Louie, you know, leading the charge
from the front, but also empowering
the people that work with us as well.
And I think that's great.
Great.
It's been amazing journey
so far to be a part of,
Travis Bader: is there anything
that we haven't talked about
that we should be talking about?
Staz: Um, politics now,
Travis Bader: religion and politics.
I'm
Staz: joking.
Well, you dragged me
down that fucking road.
Travis Bader: That'll be
over a couple of points.
Staz: Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I just think it's, um, I
think, you know, we've covered most
stuff there and, and thank you.
It's been a really, really
cool, um, conversation.
Hopefully some people have, have
gained some something from it.
I dunno.
And for people that didn't know
about Through Dot, you know, checkers
out and everything else were, uh,
active across all the social media
platforms and, and the website as well.
My book, I guess the why I'd like
to cover the, why I wrote the book,
because people from the background
certainly don't write books.
It's frowned upon within
the totally, within the, uh.
Yeah, you know, within our sort of
cohort, um, by some people, but,
but not, not, not the majority.
Um, I think we've covered it earlier.
One of the main reasons I joined
special forces was, was the end of it.
Now that books, uh, you know, and Duncan
Faulkner and all these kinds of books.
So.
I thought it was a great way
to inspire the next generation
of people coming through.
You know, I tried to do
something slightly different.
It's not just an autobiography,
although each chapter it's kind of
weave in three stories, personal,
professional, uh, and business.
Um, so you have a, you know, a
kind of special forces story, a
personal story and a business through
dark story and what I've learned.
Um, across, across the whole period
and, uh, and that's what I kind of
wanted to do with the book is to kind
of inform and hopefully inspire, uh,
ignite for some people, um, a reason
to maybe start their own business,
uh, or to join the military or just
to be the best versions of themselves.
And books massively helped me with that.
Podcasts are another medium that
I use that, that really help.
And that's why I do.
You know, these things as well and
podcasts, you know, it's, it's,
um, it's always hard, isn't it?
If you really look at yourself and
you critically ask yourself why you're
doing things that, you know, and
hopefully it just leave a bit of a
legacy for other people and, you know,
my kids and inspire other generations,
you know, for the most part, social
media for all it's, it's woes.
It does have a lot of positives, you
know, and the messages that I receive
on the platforms are incredible.
Um, so I think, no, we should
always, you know, it's all, it's.
It's, it's, it's unfortunate that for
the most part negativity is, is almost
gaslighted constantly across social media
platforms, but we should always look
for the positives in things and in life
and in situations and in opportunity.
So that's what I'd like to gain from,
from this conversation and from the
book and from through dark as well.
Well,
Travis Bader: I'm going to have
links in the description for the
book for through dark and anything
else where people can follow the
Instagram social feed, all the rest.
So Stas, thank you so much for
being on the Slipknot podcast.
I really enjoyed the chat.
Staz: Mate, Travis.
Thank you.
We'll run it back again in a couple
of years and see where we're at.
I've enjoyed it, mate.