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I'm Brian Bashore, Professional walleye angler and owner of The Walleye Guys Guide service. I am here to reel you in with captivating stories, expert tips, and interviews with some of the biggest names in the fishing community. So, sit back, relax, and let the drag scream!
Brian Bashore (00:01.41)
Welcome back, folks. Today we are talking to my good old friend, Lance Valentine, Captain Lance. He is a fishing educator, a guide with over 30 years of experience. I don't I don't know anybody who knows this Detroit River system better than Lance. So we're gonna pick Lance's brain and get some insight and talk a little bit about fall fishing. So what's up, my friend? And I'm sure it's sunny and warm up there just like it is here.
Lance Valentine (00:24.149)
Yeah. It is eighty two degrees and it is miserable. You know, I'm I'm re I'm ready for Afghibs and a Reaper sweatshirt and you know get out there and get some fishing done. But it's it's been tough. You know, water temperatures like like you've said are are staying up and we're just not getting that that first little surge of a fish to get this fall bite started, right? It's it's got it's gonna happen sooner or later, I hope, but we are we are way behind our fall fishing and you know unfortunately that extends it further into
December and that and then like we talked about earlier, next thing you know, you get a cold snap, it's fifteen degrees and you can't go fishing anymore. So, you know, hoping we get some good fall fishing in here pretty quick.
Brian Bashore (01:00.142)
Yeah, it's
So I was telling my clients the other day, I'm like, this would be about the third October in a row. You'd say October, November are some of the best months. And now it's like it's more like November and December if you can get out, because the October is just it's just been warm. but you start to get these a little less daylight. I mean, there's the the factors that trigger the fall bite still happen in this like the fish are there, but the bait fish aren't dying. So they got plenty to eat. So you really got a small bite window.
Lance Valentine (01:30.73)
But you we've got a lot of fish stacked up at the you know the south end of the Detroit River out in Lake Erie, and you know, the shad bite is still good. We haven't started to have that that that shad kill yet, which kind of is one of the triggers for our our big fall migration into the river. That hasn't happened yet. So there's a bunch of fish there. we've got a big cold front coming Saturday. Hopefully that is kind of the trigger because it's it's I'm itching to go, right? I I'm done with the Saginaw Bay summertime, you know, 14 rod trolling thing. I'm ready to go fishing and
And get some jigging in, get some casting in and get back on that river and get some fish going.
Brian Bashore (02:03.192)
Yeah, that's the one of my favorite things about the fall of fishing is just kind of the vertical jigging and I mean it can be simple and it's also, I mean, a great time to get some big fish bites.
Lance Valentine (02:12.845)
Yeah, you know, and and what we're finding out, this this is pretty interesting. We found out they've been doing a ton of telemetry on Lake Erie. So they they've got a lot of of fish with with transmitters in them. And what they found out, which kind of neat for me to to hear, a lot of the big fish, you know, we we think these fish spawn early in Detroit. I think our our biggest fish, we assume spawn under the ice a lot, right? In March, early April when there's still some ice on the Detroit River coming down the Detroit River.
what we're finding out though is those early spawners actually come into the river in the fall. So it's a lot easier for them to come in in the fall, find a place to hang out close to where they're gonna spawn, eat there, get fat there, develop their eggs there, as opposed to doing that in the lake and then having that big long trek with that extra body weight, your belly's full of eggs, all of that stress. we're finding out with telemetry that a lot of these big fish are coming into the river October, November, early December, and they're staying.
over the winter. So we're just waiting for that trigger to happen because man, I'll tell you what, I'd like to put a twelve pounder in somebody's on somebody's rod here in November, December on the Detroit River. That'd that'd be something really cool. And we know they're there. We know they're there.
Brian Bashore (03:18.926)
So Yeah, I've been we've been out quite a bit or I've been out getting a fair amount last week. Or the last couple of weeks and we've kept a handful. And limits have been a little tougher. We're getting half a dozen, you know, maybe five to ten walleye's a day. Catching like thirty, but there's just a ton of little ones in the system. But those fifteen to twenties, eggs. They got eggs. They're developing eggs. It's not a lot, but they already got eggs. We've the perch are starting to pick up. They got eggs. I try to tell the people that this is part of the fall feeding frenzy is we're developing eggs and all that, right? We gotta get fat and
Lance Valentine (03:32.898)
Right.
Brian Bashore (03:48.608)
And and happy. So, just like we all do when it gets cold out.
Lance Valentine (03:54.564)
Yeah, so it was it was neat to see you know that that's lemon tree that that was neat to hear. You know, traditionally, you know, you every once in a while you you you kind of stumble across a big one in the fall, but to know that they are purposefully there's some fish that are coming into the river, and we're finding out that those are our early, early spawners, and those are traditionally the bigger fish, right? You know, the fish in the in the Saginaw Saginaw River, Detroit River specifically, you know, those early spawners are those big ones. Those are those eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen pound fish. And now we're finding out
They're coming in the fall. So that kind of changes that kind of changes the fishing a little bit, right? From hey, let's go get you know, let's go get twenty four, you know, two to four pounders and let's go get ten of those and let's go see if we can hammer a big one, then we'll go back and finish up. So a little little change in our plans for for our fall fishing trips on the Detroit River this year with that telemetry study.
Brian Bashore (04:28.803)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (04:44.738)
Yeah, that stuff's pretty cool. We had some tag down here on the Missouri on Lewis and Clark over three years of study. And I mean, it kind of showed what we I've talked about on here a bunch. Kind of what we figured it would show. But the same is true. A lot of those move east. We have a weird deal where a lot of them come deep in winter in the lake, and then they run up further up in the river spawn because that river isn't very deep. And there's a few holes and I've been fishing water and it's got, you know, a pile of fish in it, but it's they're not very big. They're like the size of your boat, right? You can't put
A thousand fish in these holes. So I'll move the lake and they have to run up. But I know that they're spotted on the lake. but I actually don't fish it a whole lot in the early spring, but I try a little bit and and we're starting to catch The the water's cleaning up. They're adding some more rock and stuff. We just don't have a lot of of structure for them to spawn on. And then there's not much current down on the lake lake, but there is I mean, you know, in Nebraska they would spawn on the dams and the rocks, you get the wind, the rip rap, whatever. We still have those same systems here,
Lance Valentine (05:12.675)
Right.
Brian Bashore (05:41.197)
I don't know, it's just it's just kind of tricky, but that they didn't s they still would go upriver in the spring to net those fish to put the transmitters in We caught some on the lake. We took or one of my guides took them out and caught some and and stuck one of those transmitters in it. Super cool. There's the studies we can do. We had Alley on here, you know, Dr. Walleye explaining a lot of that kind of movement stuff too. But you have I mean everybody's kind of seen the the videos of the Lake Erie migration stuff, east to west type thing.
Lance Valentine (06:06.861)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brian Bashore (06:09.708)
The river, I mean, it's always holding fish, but obviously it's holding some monster fish, which now you know are on their way there now. And they're gonna be there on their way there now, and they're gonna be there for the next four or five months, pretty much.
Lance Valentine (06:16.845)
Yeah, on their way there now. Well, it definitely changes your attitude towards fishing in the fall, right? if you know those big fish are coming and you know, we've got the migration routes figured out pretty good. You know, over 30 years we kind of can connect the dots from from where they spawn to where they come. So we've got those dots kind of connected. So knowing that those fish are coming, they're gonna come in the same migration routes they use in the spring.
And kind of knowing where they can sit in the deep water that, you know, the the water that's that's a little more consistent as far as temperature goes. You know, they want that that that stability of that deep water, they want that comfort, but those really steep dropping areas so they can get to a flat real quick close to where they spawn. We kind of got those areas kind of figured out. So really looking forward to to some cold weather here and getting those fish to to come in from the lake and and hopefully hopefully send you a picture of a big giant one someday soon.
Brian Bashore (07:14.35)
The the funny thing out there is I I have clients that are, Hey, we're gonna go to blah blah blah. I'm like, Yeah, go to the South Codans load up Lake Erie in the spring and they're taking their deep freezers in their truck and they're bringing fish back for these giant, you know, wild game feeds and Wally's unlimited banquets and whatever and and and it's great because you apparently have a few hundred million of out there. But I tell them like you can go anywhere on Lake Erie any time of the year and there's gonna be a ton of fish. But they all wanna come early to chase those big
Lance Valentine (07:24.792)
Yep, yep.
Brian Bashore (07:41.027)
those giant ones, but I I mean, it seems like the year class up there after being there last year for the N W T there's a lot of four to six pounders, but I I mean it's not like it was ten years ago when you were getting all twenty eight and thirty inch fish, but it's close to being back there. Yeah.
Lance Valentine (07:53.816)
Y yeah. You know, the the the population's kind it's kind of skewed, right? You know, we we had those years, you know, one, four, six, a couple of years ago where we were really at the high end, right? We had a lot of big fish. we have more fish in the system and we've had close to record year recruitment for the last eight of the last ten years. So there's a lot of fish in the system. When there's a lot of fish a different size, you just don't grow a lot of big trophies, right?
Trophies usually happen on a good year class followed by two or three really poor year classes. So now those big fish can go where they want to go, eat what they want to eat, and they're not pressured. We don't have that situation right now. You know, at the Michigan walleye tour event down Lorang, guys were talking, they were coming there like it was nothing to catch 150, 200 walleyes in a day that were, you know, two to six pounds. these guys were going through, you know, 500 crawlers in a day, every single day. So the population is amazing.
that just doesn't always lead to a high number of of big fish. So sorting out where those big fish are, figuring out where those big fish are, and they're having a tendency, you know, one of the things, they're staying east a lot longer than they used to. you know, by now we were fishing here on Ohio traditionally and there were big fish in here on those fish haven't even got to Lorraine yet. they're still Cleveland and and East. So you know, with the weather change, right, you know, things things have changed and
Brian Bashore (09:04.471)
Uh-huh.
Lance Valentine (09:19.097)
Those big fish spend more time east eating smelt deep water bait fish. They don't come back quite as fast. And that has changed the migration of the Detroit River, right? That's one of the things you know we we talk about a lot is how Lake Erie has changed, which changes the timing and the migration in Detroit. So it all, you know, it's it's really funny when you look at the telemetry, you have to look at Lake Erie, Detroit River, Lake St. Clair, St. Clair River, Southern Lake Huron, and Saginaw Bay. That's one system.
You cannot say these are Saginaw Bay walleyes or these are Lake Erie walleyes or these are Detroit River. That's not the case. You have to look at that as one system. So if you took Lake Erie and made it, you know, 1,200 acres and you took Detroit River and made it three miles long, and you took Lake St. Clair and made it 300 acres, and you took St. Clair River and made it a mile and a half long, and you took you know Saginaw Bay and made it, you know, 15,000 acres, that's what you're dealing with. You're dealing with an inland lake system just on steroids.
So these fish are constantly moving. And the things we used to think, right? Go east, come back west, hang out at the Western Basin, go up to Detroit, spawn and come back. That's not even close to what's happening. you have to treat those fish, that whole corridor, as we call it, you know, that whole system. these fish are constantly, constantly moving. and you and you gotta stay on them.
Brian Bashore (10:37.58)
Yeah, I think some of the tournament weights probably skew what people think is happening just 'cause but that's we're we're live scope of them, right? So they're they're going out there and they're picking those bigger ones out of those massive schools and they're able to get you only you're only talking needing five fish, you know, five of those big ones and there's you know, when you're dealing with hundreds of millions, you can go find it it's not easy by all means, but it it's easier than it was versus, you know, pulling boards and just going through mass numbers a day hoping you get a couple of those big bites in there.
Lance Valentine (10:57.347)
Yeah, yeah.
Brian Bashore (11:06.828)
Like you did back in four or whatever when it was like, yeah, if you know, you came in, you're like, Yeah, I had ten over, you know, twenty, thirty inches today and we were just doing the same thing. Now those fish patterns are changing, weather's d changing, it always has, and it'll change back to the way it was ten years ago. But if you've been to Erie, folks, it's there's a hell of a lot of people fishing. You think some of that's boat pressure driving some of these movements and
Lance Valentine (11:09.037)
Yeah. Yeah.
Lance Valentine (11:32.644)
I don't I I'm not a I'm not a big boat pressure guy. I really not. I I think if you find walleyes that are on the go and they're biting, I don't think they care. you know, we catch a ton of fish Saginaw Bay in the summertime, right? You know, these are these are two to five pound fish, they're not giants, but we catch a ton of fish with jet divers and spoons literally, you know, ten or twelve foot leads off the back of the boat. and that, you know, that that lure isn't ten feet from the prop.
Brian Bashore (11:32.998)
we should.
Lance Valentine (12:01.421)
You know, and we're moving in six, seven, eight, nine feet of water on the edge of the weeds, and we're moving three miles an hour, and these walleyes just come up and they just absolutely crush it. I I don't think walleyes that are feeding active and aggressively, I don't think they care. Yeah. I, you know, I was telling a guy the other day the three biggest wallies I've ever I've ever caught on the Detroit River had in my boat in the Detroit River, they were all caught in water shallower than eight feet, all vertical jigging, and I could reach out any side of the boat and touch somebody's rod tip with my rod tip.
Just don't care. When w w when they get active and aggressive, they just don't care.
Brian Bashore (12:31.66)
I
I don't disagree. I think if you would see how we fish the river down here, which is the Lewis Clark's different than the most Missouri River. like I said, I'm just out there today fishing and I drive fifteen miles, go to the west end of what we call the chutes, and they're like, And as we're getting there, I'm like, Okay, we're out of the lake, we're kind of in where the lake kind of turns into more river. And like, how deep? And they're like, they look at the graph for like it says five feet, you know, and I'm going sixty to get through 'cause you want to get up 'cause we're gonna go through foot and a half here too in a minute. So we gotta go fast. We gotta come off plane, we're gonna hit bottom, we gotta cruise.
Lance Valentine (12:38.873)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (13:04.43)
I'm like, yeah, we'll be in three to six foot all day. Maybe there's a couple eight foot spots, and whether it's in July or October. And I'm like, and then it's you drift through it and get back up, and you might get three or four boats in there. A lot of times the guys will just kind of obviously want to go slow when they're going by and not to wake you. Where I'm like, go, go, go, go. Get up on plane, haul ass. I don't care if you're 50 feet from my boat going 60. I'd rather you do that than going. I mean, I get it. You're trying to be nice. You're slowing down, but then you're just plowing, you know, and these they're you're in these little
Lance Valentine (13:22.201)
Go. Yeah. Go. Go.
Brian Bashore (13:34.073)
kind of cuts. I'm like, well, there's nowhere for the fish to go. Grant, a foot of water, they can go wherever. I'm like, but it sometimes I'm it triggers the bite. It just keeps them like, we've done this all day long and we caught fish all day long. So don't tell me that this is spooking these fish. Now you get half a dozen boats in there and you'll get four or five of those that are plowing like that, it it'll shut off and you'll move or I'll jump over to a different little shoot type area and then all of a sudden they're biting over there. It's like, yeah, they got, you know, they got
pushed out, but it's not, I don't think it's from the sonars or from catching them. It's from the guys plowing through it. And there's there's some little John boats and stuff in there, so I'll slow down for some of them. But I'm like, that boat makes a hell of a lot smaller wake if I'm hauling, you know, versus slowing down for it. Cause I I can knock you right out of that John boat quick if I slow down at the wrong time.
Lance Valentine (14:04.089)
No.
Lance Valentine (14:18.489)
I yeah, I I I tell guys on the river, you know, go buy me flat. I don't care if that's really slow and your bow is down or it's wide open and you're trimmed up and you're you're running flat. Run by me flat. If you run by me flat, we're not gonna have a problem. When you put that nose up in the air, that's when you create the issues. And it's hard to get guys to think that. I'm like, I'd rather have you like you, go buy me wide open. Your wake is this big, it lasts for two seconds and you're gone. You go plowing through there.
So yeah, I I think people have a misconception about and again I I go back to I I j I just don't think aggressive fish they I don't think they care. I think they just when they're when they're hungry and they're feeding, especially pre spawn and early post spawn fish and fish this time of year, they go dumb. When it's time to eat, they just go dumb. And they they don't they don't care about nothing else, right?
Brian Bashore (14:53.55)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (15:02.912)
It's like a buck in the rut, right? They're just nothing else. That's I mean, if we'll we'll even we haven't been able to troll a whole lot in the the river park 'cause there've been so much weeds washing down all year. But we do, we'll pull lead because there's quite a bit of current. And it's twenty to forty foot of lead out the back of the boat. I'm like, when it gets bit, I'm like, grab the net, because it's a couple cranks that thing's to the surface and we're ready to go. They're like, How far back? I'm like, twenty five, twenty-seven feet or like forty is the max. Even if you're running a mono or braid, you're still only looking at like forty feet back. I'm like,
Lance Valentine (15:20.483)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (15:31.33)
They don't they don't care. A kicker stern stuff up, I think. It's just it just like they're not they're itty bitty brains, man. They're not super brilliant.
Lance Valentine (15:38.724)
There's a difference between active aggressive feeding walleyes and walleyes. And when they get active and aggressive, I I really don't think I think that's their only focus. And and you know, they will stop, right? Those bite windows close and then you're like there isn't a fish within a hundred miles of here. That happens, but I don't think it's because of boat pressure. I think it's just those bite windows just just close and those fish decide not to bite. So I'm not I'm not a big believer in boat pressure.
Brian Bashore (16:01.9)
No, we we don't have the cleanest water, so that's we don't have to worry about that. Detroit River, on the other hand, it's pretty clean for the most part, you know, a little different and you definitely got but it's it's bigger, it's deeper. I mean, it's very sustainable system for hundreds and I mean you have thousands of boats out there. Plus you're split by the the mounties, the Canadian side and the US side. So you got people that that won't go to one side or the other.
Lance Valentine (16:08.227)
Candy?
Lance Valentine (16:25.635)
Yeah, it's it's it's a big river, but I'll tell you what, it's getting more and more traffic every year. and the traffic's coming earlier. So, you know, I I'd like to think I'm a part of that reason. I think I like to think that we've taught some people how to catch some fish down there, you know, and that that is part of the negative of doing that, right? But it's such a great fishery. you know, thirty-two miles of river, there there's fish biting somewhere every day, all the time. You know, watercolor is a big thing, you know, we're we're
Brian Bashore (16:38.739)
I'm sure.
Lance Valentine (16:54.401)
Always looking for green water. That's that's one of the keys. I don't care. I don't care what else I see. If I don't see green water, I'm probably not gonna fish. I definitely don't fish blue water at all in the in the Detroit River. that's that's a no-no. you know, the dirt, you got to pay attention to the dirt because sometimes sometimes there's a there's a big difference between dirty water and dirt in the water, right? Sometimes that dirt is just surface, and when you get below that, it's actually created a good bite because it's cut down light penetration and down below these fish can still see.
Brian Bashore (17:09.707)
Uh-huh.
Lance Valentine (17:23.137)
After two or three days with Lake St. Clair getting whipped up, you get sediment in the water and and now you have dirt in the water and the bite is a little bit tougher. But water clarity is that water clarity is one of one of my biggest things. honestly for me, more important than water temperature, more important than anything else. I'm looking for that good stained green water where I can barely see my prop or not see my prop at all. I like that stained green water, especially if I'm chasing pre-spawn fish up in you know five, six, seven, eight feet of water.
I like that stained green water. actually no matter where I fish, but definitely that that's a big deal on the Detroit River.
Brian Bashore (17:59.631)
Yeah, I don't Lake Erie's always kind of been like that too, was drive around until you find the right color of water. Now, obviously last year with the lives coping and stuff, it's like drive around until you mark fish. Cause if I'm gonna put the bait two inches in front of his nose in dirty water, he's gonna bite it. And yeah, they did. But that was if you hit it, it's like, well, I'm not gonna pull cranks in that stuff, which I thought, well, cranks would make more sense because they're gonna feel it vibrate and they're gonna come up and and I think for the most part it it it does work, just not as good, obviously, but nobody does it.
Lance Valentine (18:03.203)
Yep. Yep.
Brian Bashore (18:29.282)
Just because right, we tell for years not to don't do that. You need to find this color of water. And the right color water is hands down better in every every aspect, especially if you're scoping, but you know, or trolling for sure, you can scope anywhere. But if you're gonna scope in the right color of water, you're gonna catch way more fish.
Lance Valentine (18:45.977)
And then, you know, there's no place I fish that green water isn't isn't good, right? I don't care if it's been, you know, the whole country I've traveled, been lucky enough to travel while I fishing. it it doesn't matter the times, you know, we go down every February and go saltwater fishing. it seems like that water color is always no matter who you talk to, it's always find the green water, find the green water, find the green water. So whatever it is, I don't know if it's nutrients, I don't know if it's
cuts the sun a little bit better. I I really don't care what it is. I just know that it it is.
Brian Bashore (19:15.564)
I would it's a combination of all, I believe. I I mean I've only got to fish the Detroit River once and it was cold as hell and didn't go great, but it was still I was like, All right, we're going to always want to do it. I love river fishing, love to go back and it was it was we had you know, it was early and we had horrible weather, but I was like, That's right. There was days where I cracked still got good. I'm like, they're here. You just gotta make the adjustments due to the conditions. And a lot of that was the weather. So the w that water clarity was moving and I went and fished the clean stuff just to try something different.
Right out in front of the city there, you know, not up by the bridges where that was the right color and you caught them, but they weren't the right size. Slid down a little bit where it was really clear, and I caught a couple, you know, way deeper. But I'm like, but this isn't I gotta get one of these a day isn't gonna work out. Which at that tournament one a day was pretty good, but you know, it was I think the why not areas where I fished a lot of that was a a pretty solid bite there and fairly shallow and pitch and jigs and vertical jigging and and three waying. But yeah, super cool place, fun
Lance Valentine (19:49.925)
Yeah, those yeah, those are.
Lance Valentine (20:01.077)
Okay.
Brian Bashore (20:13.59)
It's really diverse. There's a lot of different things you can do on the Troy River. Everybody thinks vertical jigging, one ounce jigs, but no. I mean, there's you can do whatever you want, really.
Lance Valentine (20:21.749)
Ye yeah, you know, it's it's vertical jigging. You know, obviously when you got myself and four people in the boat, vertical jigging is is really the easiest way to do it. but you know, we get some casting trips. we have some crankbait casting trips. There's some places that you can actually cast crankbaits even during the day. It's a really good late afternoon, early evening bite. I'll tell you what's really catching on is crankbait trolling. Guys are trolling crankbaits upstream. that's really becoming a big thing.
Brian Bashore (20:26.702)
No.
Lance Valentine (20:50.189)
We're, you know, for years we saw fish, you know, eight, ten, twelve feet down over thirty, thirty five, forty feet of water in the river. You're like, man, if I was on Erie, I'd stop and fish for those, but they can't be walleyes in the river. They gotta be on the bottom. Well, they're not. they're walleyes. you know, so so that's becoming a bigger deal. we did a lot of snap jigging last year. just letting the boat, you know, turning the boat downstream, pulling the boat downstream and snap jigging on flats, throwing jigs out behind the boat 30, 40 feet and just snap jigging them.
Brian Bashore (21:02.082)
They're not.
Lance Valentine (21:17.253)
and there's days that that is a better presentation than vertical. sometimes vertical just isn't right. So, you know, so that's an option. you know, casting shallow water, there is a ton of shallow water rock, shallow water weeds, shallow water stuff that looks more like bass fishing stuff. yeah, exactly. That has a ton of walleyes in it, right? So there's lots of things you can do, you but obviously pulling bottom bouncers down current is
Brian Bashore (21:33.098)
It's shallow water foundations and busted concrete's been dumped in the river. Mm-hmm.
Lance Valentine (21:43.232)
Is is a a a pretty common method that that a lot of anglers do. So you know, you got handlining, right? A lot of guys handline still on Detroit River, especially when water is dirty. So it's not just a common vertical jig. If you like to fish rivers, you have everything you need. You have deep channels, you have points, you have inside corners, you have little side channels with little slack water current, you have shell spots you can cast to. you have you know slack water areas that hold big fish, you have access to the big water.
you have channels that have steep drops, you have channels that have gradual drops, you have big flats, you you everything you want in a river is in there. So no matter how you want to fish a river, you can probably find a spot on the Trade River to do it. It's it's a it's a pretty awesome fishery.
Brian Bashore (22:22.85)
Yeah. I, you know, going into that when I was there for years back for NWT, it was thought the thought was vertical, but it didn't tell I'm a big side image guy, and obviously our electronics are gonna help us considerably. But I'm like, if I can find a shallow flat, because this is early, right? They're gonna be they should be shallower, warmer water. Then you have all these old, you know, industrial stuff that got dumped in and debris and rebar, it's snaggy, but you go by it on side scan, you'd see the ledge, there's a flat.
You'd see the fish. Okay, there's an old culvert sticking out of the bank. It's got some warm water dumping out of it from God knows where or what color it is. But I was looking for those spots all over because they all had little slack eddies and yeah, I pitched jigs and caught fish on them. Not a ton, but I'm like, they're they're gonna be here. They're you know, they're setting up, but it's electronics. You can scan, you know, your side scan is crucial anywhere. That's the number one thing I probably use more than anything. But obviously, we need to fly it out deeper, because that I think it's pretty deep. I mean
But your two D is huge, but the size scan's gonna help you find those suspended ones that are only four or five feet down.
Lance Valentine (23:26.211)
Yeah, we we you know we catch most of our big fish. You know, we catch twelve to fifteen fish over thirty inches every year. That's kind of where we are. Last year we were a little short. I think we got eight last year, but you know, most of those fish come shallower than 10 feet. So you don't want to go busting into those shallow flats right away, right? You want to, like you said, it's a it's a side scan thing, right? You're out you're out on the shelf, you're kind of looking, and you know, I'll I'll set my side scan at a hundred, hundred and fifteen feet so I can stay out there and look and get a better picture and
You if we see those fish in there shallow, we'll go in there and catch them. And they don't they don't shy away from the boat. You know, we catch a lot of them vertical jigging. you know, I I had a fish two years ago that a little over twelve and a half pounds that I swear the prop of the trolling motor hit in the head before I caught it. I mean, it was it was it was that shallow. and he still bit of you know, a jig right, you know, this far from the trolling motor. so again, they they don't care, right? I don't think they care when they're in there, but you can't just go blasting in there because if you just go blasting in there and you you get
Those shallow fish, they they'll stay for a minute or two, but you especially late pre-spawn when they're kind of skittish, they they kind of want to go, but they don't really want to go, you get one crack at them. So if you go in and you've got a 55 or 50 foot wide spot to fish and you miss the drift the first time, you probably cut your chance of catching a fish in half. So using side scan to figure out exactly where that drift is, right? And dropping a couple waypoints before you go in there. So now you've got this little path figured out, you just connect the dots.
it really increases your chance of being on the right drift the first time. And I think anybody, you know, anybody that fishes shell R will tell you your first pass is probably going to be your best pass, right? So do everything you can to get that first pass right. And side scan's a huge part of that.
Brian Bashore (25:08.238)
So a little insider, I guess. I just did some stuff for In Fishermen for the Walleye Insider next spring, and that's exactly what I talked about was your first pass of going up past where it is, side scan it. You know, I said, but really, sometimes you just gotta make a drift to see and just let the current kind of just take you. Whether you're fishing or not, just drift through the area quiet, peacefully, scan it, check it all out, and then maybe you come back up. Or I mean you're you're probably gonna drop a line. I don't think I can make a drift without dropping a line, but
It's that first drift is pretty important. But pay attention to those little details of where you missed one or where you got bit or where you caught it. And then you know, most it's the biggest question to most people that are new to fishing us that have done it, us old timers, right? Us us old timer guides are always the why, why, why. Why did that fish bite there? Well, what was it? You know, when it's the guy that sat his rod in the rod holder and grabbed his soda, then he bit. Right? Or it's the
speed or all of a sudden the boat you're drifting and I wasn't moving nowhere wham, wham, wham, three guys got bit. You're like, waypoint. That's that's the spot. And now maybe I can set up and cast to or whatever. But I think a lot of people that are just getting into it or haven't fished a ton or still learning aren't, you know, they don't ask themselves why enough. You know, why did I catch that?
Lance Valentine (26:23.245)
Yeah. Yeah, I I think I think that's the big thing, right? And you know, we've been teaching for thirty years with you know, we what we call our eight steps, right? So be in the right location, be in the right depth of water, know how deep the fish are, get your lure speed, size, shape, action, color, right? You know, every time you catch a fish, you do those eight things right. May not be the best answer, but you got a good answer, right? So we try to get guys to look at all eight of those pieces, you know, and then you add in water color, water clarity, current speed, you add in all these other little nuggets, and then you catch a second fish, and now you've got
20 pieces of information, which you know, you got 20 pieces for the first fish and 20 pieces for the second. What's the same? What's different? You know, you so you you kind of in every fish you catch, you just it just starts telling you a fishing story. So now you start to find out what's important and what isn't important, right? Okay, we went through this place, we caught five fish and we caught them on three different colors. Okay, color doesn't matter. But every guy that caught them was jigging really slow, or you know, we caught them behind this this little this little hump. We got in here to the slack water and they're all behind.
You know, there's there's every time you catch a fish, the fish tell fish tell you every day what they want. My question to my my guys is you know, are you listening? Right. They tell it's funny on a charter, we'll catch three or four fish and I'll turn around as running back up and I'll ask, you know, hey, does did everybody see what just happened? Right? You're like, come on, man, pay attention a little bit. So I think you're right. I think anglers who are consistently good, especially anglers who have to be good every day, right? Tournament guys, guides.
We see these little things that most anglers don't even pay, you know, don't even pay attention to, right? And I think I I don't think fishing ever comes down to big things. I think it always comes down to little things. And the more you pay attention to those little things, I think the better you're going to do. And I I think once you figure out those little things, you compress where you fish, right? So instead of making these lawn drifts, now you're only you you're fishing this little chunk and then
Brian Bashore (28:11.073)
yeah.
Brian Bashore (28:14.71)
You are. Yep.
Lance Valentine (28:15.533)
You know, people are going by and you're going back up and they're on I just keep on trucking, just keep on going. You know, run well the whole drift goes, yeah. I the whole drift goes, but they're right here right now. you know, and
Brian Bashore (28:24.058)
Yep. I you're just you're re reiterating everything I've been saying to everybody for the last couple of months because we're drifted and we're dri we're throwing the jigs back and drifting them in September when the even in August I started. I usually don't even switch to minnows till like September. This year I'm like, I'm gonna try there. So there's mornings I've throwing out worm, a a leech, and a minnow. They're like, Really, what's working best? I'm like, I don't know. We're gonna let the fish tell us here in one drift. You know, and by the second, third drift, I'm like, we're going all leeches.
Lance Valentine (28:28.198)
Ha ha ha.
Yeah, yeah.
Lance Valentine (28:45.921)
No
Brian Bashore (28:51.032)
You know, or we're gonna or we're gonna just we're gonna have it narrowed down to two. It's I haven't had a crawler in the boat for since early September. It's all minnows now. But it's also that I'm like, typically we're gonna drift from here to here, but after about two drifts, I'm like, it's gonna get real s it's getting small. So exactly other guys will keep going, or we're gonna go through and once the sides can I stop seeing or they stop by I'm like, pick up. We're going back up. I'm like, sorry, this is every ten minutes, but we gotta get on them while they're biting while they're there. You know, it will change throughout the day.
Lance Valentine (29:18.189)
You can't catch if they ain't there, right? Yeah. I'll tell I'll tell you a little story. my wife hates to troll, right? My wife is a bass fisherman, she likes to cast, but about once a year she will say, Hey, her mom's out of fish and her mom loves walleye. So that means I'm taking her fishing. The fishing better be good because we ain't gonna have a lot of time to go, right? So we we went a couple of years ago and I had a hot bite going on. This is be a perfect day. We can get out here, we can fish for two hours, we can catch a bunch of fish, we'll be done and
Brian Bashore (29:36.106)
Right.
Lance Valentine (29:47.012)
She'll be happy. I'll be happy she went with me. So we go out and we, it's eight fish, eight fish is the limit on Saginaw Bay. We make one pass through our fish and we got 14. I'm like, I don't want the day to end this fast. I mean, it's as fast as I can get lines in the water, right? You know, I want to enjoy some time on the water with my wife. I got her out here. So I go a little bit further. And this is honest got the truth. It's not five minutes. She goes, hey, she goes, There hasn't been a fish on that screen in five minutes. She goes, turn this boat around and get my ass back on the fish.
Brian Bashore (29:58.489)
Right. Right.
Brian Bashore (30:17.407)
Yep. Smart woman.
Lance Valentine (30:17.505)
I'm like, she's hey, I've been I've been listening to you talk for 30 years. She goes, I know you can't catch up where they're not. Yeah, exactly. Well, unfortunately, she she's not, but she listens to it enough. So she she knows. But but I'm like, you know, that that just makes so much sense. Why can't we get regular anger? One of the questions I'm sure you get all the time, I get all the time, especially when I'm trolling, is how far do you go? I'm like, Well, if I if I've had a good bite and I've gone three minutes with no fish on my screen.
Brian Bashore (30:23.342)
She's a subscriber of the walleye zone.
Brian Bashore (30:31.264)
Right. She she's she's there. She she's
Lance Valentine (30:47.241)
no bites and nothing has changed, I'm I'm spinning around. Right. I I don't have time. I don't have time to to fish water that isn't isn't productive, right? It just it just doesn't do any good. And I think that happens, you said it great, it happens a lot on the river. We just need to condense. You know the other thing I I I I I I try to watch have anglers watching the boat is a lot of times these fish in the river, especially if they're on the channel ledges, they're either moving up or down river. So we'll catch a couple fish
Brian Bashore (30:49.825)
I'm I'm done. Yep.
Lance Valentine (31:13.763)
You know, and I save a waypoint for every fish I catch. So it's waypoint, waypoint, waypoint, waypoint. We'll go back up. We'll set up and go waypoint, waypoint, waypoint. And then we won't catch any more fish as we go through the first group of waypoints. I'm like, well, instantly we know the fish are going that way. So our next pass is way further upstream, right? And a lot of anglers are like, well, we didn't go back to the spot we caught the first one's like, didn't you notice that the fish stopped before we got there?
Brian Bashore (31:36.216)
They they weren't there, yep.
Lance Valentine (31:38.018)
Right, they're they're they're not they're not there. So I I think I I think anchors pay way too much attention to big stuff, right? Lure color, lure size, for forget all that, right? Put something to the bottom of the river or the bottom or above the fish if you're trolling or casting, put something above them. find fish that are actively biting, pay attention to your presentation. I know for me, 90% of the things that make a difference when we're on the Detroit River vertical jigging, it's cadence. How fast and how high you're lifting.
how s fast or how slow you're dropping, what are you letting that jig do when it hits the bottom? that is more important than color any day, right? If you're if you're in the right spot and you get the cadence right, you're gonna catch a lot of fish. So pay attention to the important stuff, not the stuff that we think is a big deal, but really doesn't matter.
Brian Bashore (32:24.91)
Yeah, I'm not a huge color guy. We'll throw there's days where I'm like, man, they are that pole's getting bit more than anybody. By far, it's got a yellow jig head. Apparently they want, you know, I'll have two, and then all of a sudden those are the two that are that are five to one. I'm like, I I that's what they want today. We'll throw some more yellow on, so be it. But I'm like, typically it's it's just gonna be an even Steven or the Lindy rig with just a plain hook and the leeches out fishing everything. I'm like, that's that's we just gotta pay attention. Color doesn't matter. I'm just gonna put lead color on because that's just fine.
Lance Valentine (32:52.377)
Ha ha ha.
Brian Bashore (32:54.562)
You know, and we're getting it's kind of snaggy, but all that is irrelevant in the eight processes if you don't use your electronics, right? Right. But if you don't if they're not there, you're not gonna catch period. It doesn't matter what color.
Lance Valentine (33:03.927)
care what you got on if they ain't there you got no chance right and I I tell people all the time I says I'm not a good fisherman I said I'm a really bad fisherman in the right place. I said one of the things I think I do very well is I find fish, right? I'm I'm able to locate fish and I'm able to pay attention to those little details. I'm not a great fisherman. I just am a really shitty fisherman in the right place a lot. So that that that turns into a that turns into a lot more fish than being a really good fisherman in the wrong spot. So I I work I work it that way. I'm just a bad fisherman in the right place. So
You can take away all my colors, all my stuff, just don't take away my electronics and I'll catch them on whatever you give me. So I think that's a big piece of it is worry about the worry about the where, don't worry so much about the why.
Brian Bashore (33:44.845)
Yeah. Yep. And telling people that for your and our electronics have evolved so much, not just you know, the live scope but at all, but the the you know, Mincota just came out, the new hummingbird, right? The Mincota where you can just take your finger and make a trail on your graph and say, Drive me there. There's no reason you can't manage a couple rods and have your hands free now, but just watch those things. I'll tell people and they're What is I get a lot I run side scan locks for fishing shallow and a lot of guys have the you know, the bird of the garb and whatever it is, and I'm like
So I'll show them because they're usually like I have that. I just can't, what am I looking at? I don't know what the hell I'm looking for. When it first came out, I remember I was always saying, Well, that's only good for finding structure. I'm like, I I find fish. They're the little things that look like they always say, He looks like rice. I'm like, Yep, pretty much, little white streaks. And I'm like, But that little white blob, that's a sheephead or a drum. We'll call them over here more or less. I'm like, I was like, that's probably a wallet. I'm like, so sometimes I'll look over and they're You keep saying there's a bunch of fish here when they're not by. I'm like, Yeah. And I'm like, look, you know, my screen's tilted, so I'll turn it because I can't see it right when you you know unless you're squared up.
I'm like, all of those. They're like, holy crap. There's a ton of them. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, and most all of those are walleye. So what they're just not biting right now. I'm like, just we'll we'll hang out. We'll give it a little more time. Come and then when they fire, they fire, then all of a it's bam, bam, you know, double, triple. I'm like, or we'll left, you know, leave it and come back to the area. I'm like, if there's nothing on the screen, I tell them we're we're out of here. But usually we're not going to drop a line. And they're just, but it's it's showing them what it looks like. People have a hard time trying to.
understand what that is on side image you're looking at. And a lot of times they're they're going too fast. I'm like, we got you got to slow down on that. The shadow of those fish is going to show those fish are going to show themselves really good. And people are like, well they just don't graph very good here. I'm like, everything graphs pretty much good on side image. It can be tougher on 2D on a on a deeper, you know, on the river when they're really, really tight to the bottom. But the DI will give you that separation. And then there's times where I'm like, we'll just put the live scope down and see what's going on. Cause you know, 'cause maybe they're trying to pull one on you. But
Lance Valentine (35:27.961)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (35:39.374)
Yeah, those things have come a long way and I always tell there's this I'm like, they can't hide anymore.
Lance Valentine (35:44.474)
Yeah. I you know, I would tell you I I don't use forward facing sonar a lot. I had it on the boat a little bit last year. what I found out was I was watching it so much I couldn't control the boat, right? So I'm like, okay, I can't I can't have this because I I'm paying way too much attention to this. So you know, I I would tell you on my boat, you you cannot have my GPS and you cannot have my side scan. give me my GPS, give me my side scan. I'll catch as many fish as I do with all the other stuff. I think those two those two tools, especially, you know, I'm a Lowrance guy, so
Brian Bashore (35:55.778)
Yeah, yeah.
Lance Valentine (36:14.593)
You know, we have that C Map Genesis where I'm able to download bottom hardness. So now you start to see the the hardness of the bottom. You start to save save a couple of waypoints that day. And all of a sudden you start to see that these fish are on these hard bottom spots, or today they're on these soft bottom spots, or they're they're they're right on these transitions. So now you have that piece of information too that you don't have to go find with your jig. You can find right on your on your chart, on your on your GPS.
So now you start to put all that together too, right? So you start to put together the depth, you start to put together the cadence, you start to put together the bottom hardness. you know, obviously you can see the contours. Are we on a steep drop? Are we on a on a gradual drop? What are we doing? You put all that stuff together, you can catch them. I so I I those two pieces of equipment, you you can't I'd tell you even the same thing on the lake, right? Other than the high speed searching with with 2D, I still, if you if you wanted to limit me to to a couple pieces of electronics.
I would take my side scan and my and my chart over anything else that's out there, including forward facing sonar.
Brian Bashore (37:13.208)
Yep. Nope. Me too. If I didn't have my chart, I'd be stuck on sandbars the whole time. But it's super crucial. Yeah. Yeah, no, but those but I use it and people look at mine and then it because they I I run birds and I got garment for live scopes, but I'm like, I'm pretty sure you can do this on all these. You can do shallow water highlights, you can do depth highlights, whatever. And you look and then I have auto chart live because we're fish so shallow between these sandbars that change that every every year I go up there I just turn on and let it remap itself and it's brown for when it's
Lance Valentine (37:17.369)
We don't we don't have we don't have as big a worry about that as you guys do.
Brian Bashore (37:42.968)
Mutt it's pretty much all brown, but it gives me a nice big trail, which I can zoom out a little bit on it and see. But they're like, mine doesn't look like that. I'm like, you know, and I have these green spots all over. I'm like, those are all the humps that are eight to ten feet. This red stuff is all one to three feet. All this brown and some other this weird orange colors. I'm like, those are all the trails I made that are four to six feet, and those black spots are don't go there. That's zero feet deep. So I'm like, you don't you don't have this? I'm like, but if you have one of these, I'll show them real quick. I mean, it's literally just a
10 seconds and you just boom boom hit a few buttons. If you know once you figure it out where where those buttons are, right? What those settings are.
Lance Valentine (38:16.505)
you're doing yeah yeah a lot a lot a lot of a lot of times I'll run two panels on my GPS and I'll run one with the contours the bottom bottom composition layer and then I'll run another one that is shaded. So if I figure out these fish are on you know they're they're 15 feet where it drops off steep. Well you shade zero to fifteen and now you can see 15 and now you can start to see where it drops off really quick right so now you've got all these visual clues that just make the again being a bad fisherman the right place right
All these visual clues that put you in the right place, a lot more often than the guy that just randomly drifts down the river and goes Yeah, this is the same line I was on last time. Yeah, no, it's not. you know, it's it's it's not the same line. So yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (38:57.577)
It makes it easier to control the boat when you can when you're standing back and if you got your your tritune or whatever, I think, right? You're you still fishing out of the angler?
Lance Valentine (39:04.921)
I have triedune on the on the lake. I I fish a polar craft on the river. Fish a tr just a traditional boat.
Brian Bashore (39:08.601)
So you're standing back running the remote a lot, you're not two feet, you know, or twenty inches from your screen, you're like, yeah, I just need to zoom in and just stay on that highlighted line right there.
Lance Valentine (39:18.115)
Yeah. And it's it makes it so, you know. And the other thing I do, if you want to go a little one step further, I have two units on my bow and I have a obviously GPS antenna and one of them is you know right in the unit. I have a second GPS antenna on the back of my boat. So my polar craft's 20, 20 little well, just under twenty feet, twenty-one feet long. So we're basically nineteen feet apart. So I have them set up that if I save a waypoint on one machine, it uses the antenna that's in the unit at the bow of the boat. If I save a waypoint on the other machine,
It uses the antenna in the back. Because there's some days you're crabbing down the the river sideways. And if I catch a fish, if guy in the back of the boat catches a fish and I put that waypoint in at the front of the boat and I come back tomorrow and the winds turn 180 degrees, I'm not anywhere close to where that fish was. Right? So I even do those little tricks right there of okay, the guy in the back of the boat catches a fish, it gets saved on my left unit. I view it all on my right unit, but it gets saved.
Brian Bashore (40:03.502)
Yep, yep.
Lance Valentine (40:14.839)
On the left uses that antenna. If I catch a fish in the front half of the boat, I save a waypoint on my right unit, which uses the antenna on the bow. So now I can kind of the wind shifts tomorrow, I kinda know where that fish was actually caught as opposed to having a waypoint twenty feet from where that fish was actually hooked up. So that's a big deal.
Brian Bashore (40:29.967)
I don't think people realize ten foot can be a big difference from catching to not catching. Especially if they're not feeding like heavily where they're not chasing or coming to get it. You gotta be right on it. You gotta with that bait within a foot or two of that fish, or they're just not gonna come get it. I mean, we'll be just exactly what you're saying. You're drifting sideways, the front and back are different. I'm trolling on a break with lead and it's like, all right, put a hundred feet out.
Lance Valentine (40:33.791)
huge. Huge. Yeah, absolutely.
Brian Bashore (40:56.621)
And the guy on this side will put it in that side. I'm like, put 140 out over there and like put 90 on this one. They're like, huh? I'm like, it's fifteen feet here. I'm like, it's twenty five, twenty-six feet over here. So we're right on the brake, if not 30. And I'm gonna bounce on and off it. And you just gotta stay on it. And they're like, whoa, that much? I'm like, the river channel brakes here are like wham. And that's it. I'm like, that's the structure is they're trying to chase they're pitting that bait against those brakes. It's not a very slow, you know, roll, whatever that case is at all.
Lance Valentine (40:59.757)
That side. Yeah.
Lance Valentine (41:05.635)
Yep. Yep.
Lance Valentine (41:25.501)
And that's that's all those little pieces, you know, that's those little things, right? That that I think, you know, as you as you spend more time on the water, and I'm gonna say as you spend more time on the water, you're gonna become a better angler, you start to pay attention to those things more than you worry about the other stuff, right? And you know, you you know as well as I do if they're you look, if they're in twenty feet, they're not in twenty two or eighteen, they're in twenty. You've got to be in twenty. you know, and we see we see a lot of guys on the river. Obviously we get a lot of wind in the springtime on the river. You've been there, you've you've seen it.
So you can't stay on the line you want to stay on. So I teach guys, I get about half my charter guys want to learn. So I'll teach them what I call chunking. So let's say I've got a three-quarter mile stretch I want to fish. I can't stay on the right depth for three-quarters of a mile. I just can't do it with the wind. I'm constantly on it or off it. So what I'll do is I'll go look, I'm gonna chunk it. I'm gonna fish 50 feet perfect, get blown off, get back up, fish another 50 feet perfect.
Get blown off, pull my instead of trying to constantly pull myself to 20. And I'm now I'm in 17 or I'm in 23. I'm never in 20, right? So sometimes you have to have to take a long piece of structure and chunk it and just fish it really good for 50 feet. Go, okay, reel them up, go back up, set up again, another 50 foot chunk, and you catch a lot more fish that way, even though it's it seems like you're out of water more, but every time you're in the water, you're more efficient. So, you know, those little things of compressing where you're fishing and really concentrating on.
Those little small little keys is a big deal.
Brian Bashore (42:53.581)
No, that's a good point because we'll we'll fight it. I mean, if you're the captain, you're driving that boat, you're just fighting like hell to stay at that depth, and you're like, you know, right when you hit it, and then maybe somebody gets bit and then you're helping them and all of a you're five feet and you're like, God damn it, I gotta start all over, you know, and I mean autopilot's great, but you're like, ugh. Then you get all set back up and you're like, Well, now we need to go, you know, way back up there 'cause we're all jacked up. Let's you know, I'm I'm and I'm the guy, I'm like, time reset. I'm like, just bring them in. We're gonna start over what it should just.
Lance Valentine (43:05.53)
Yep.
Lance Valentine (43:12.917)
Way back up here. Yep. Yep.
Lance Valentine (43:19.427)
Start over. Start over.
Brian Bashore (43:21.271)
All right, just break this down. Here's the deal. I lately I'm it's like just you're gonna run two rods apiece out here. I'm like, just run one and hold it, because they're biting so light, you just kinda gotta even with a jig and a minnow, you gotta drop it. If they're picking it up, just drop it just a little bit. Or if it's in a rod holder, flip the bell open and have it. And then once it's you know, like linear rigging basically, and we are doing that as well. I'm like, just run one. I'm like, you're gonna be so more effective or efficient in a sense, if you just catch the one instead of missing all of them, and we're making this
two hundred foot drift that takes not very long at all at a mile and a half an hour. Just just toss it out there. Let's go. Be ready. Get We'll go back up. Do it again. You know. Chunking. I like it.
Lance Valentine (43:59.078)
Yeah, I call it chunking. You just you fish a chunk, you fish a chunk, you fish a chunk, you fish a chunk. There you go, gonna be chunking. Break it down to chunks.
Brian Bashore (44:03.887)
That makes sense. I'm gonna use it. We're gonna be chunking. Other guys what the hell is this chunking? You're talking about. Is that some new bait? Am I we catfishing? What? No, we're just breaking it down into chunks. That's what Captain Lance says. It it makes sense. So makes sense. And then the wind obviously causes, and I think people get and you see it up there because I mean the heavy jigs are obviously the big thing on the Detroit River, because you them that current's ripping through, but when we get a lot of that fast current, yep, in a lot of places.
Lance Valentine (44:31.203)
That's our that's our new one. That's an ounce and a half. We started fishing that last year. And we've caught more fish. I've caught more big fish on this than anything else.
Brian Bashore (44:39.085)
I started using heavier, even dispitching this year. I've core three sixteenths quarter is about as big as I usually I love to fish shallow. It's always lighter is better. I'm like light's great at when you can get away with it. But I've also said this year on like scoping for deeper walleyes and stuff, it's do not be afraid at all to go to three quarter ounce, one ounce. That is nothing for a eight I mean, I'm talking big, big walleyes to inhale, but even for like a four pounder can pick that thing up like it's nothing.
Lance Valentine (45:03.395)
We caught some nice fish on this, even in seven, eight, nine feet of water. you know, my my theory is this the heavier the jig is, the more I can control what it does. Right? I can lift it whatever I want to, and I can drop it any way I want to, right? As the jigs get lighter, I have less control because as I even as I hold it, the current wants to wash it. As this jig gets heavier, it's gonna go up and down. And I completely control how it moves. I have a lot more control over it. And now I I don't have to worry about my guys feeling the bottom at all.
I don't even have to question. So usually what I do is, you know, there's always one corner when you're vertical jigging that's always tough because the boat's just kind of spinning. So they get an ounce and a half. everybody else gets a one. I fish with a three quarter in the front because that way if I'm vertical, everybody else should be vertical. but there are days that we make two or three drifts and the guy with the ounce and a half has got more fish than everybody else. So you switch everybody over to the ounce and a half and you and you just go. So you know, I was always lighter the better. You know, we started fishing the Detroit River with
Three eighths ounce jigs, three eighths ounce fireballs, a live minnow and a wire stinger hook. You know, I think we all know what that w used to be. And and now, I haven't put a piece of live bait in my boat in 25 years. I very I I'm the only guy that fishes less. Yeah, exactly. You know, we fish one ounce, an ounce and a half exclusively on the boat with customers. and we just fish plastics. So, you know, we've kind of evolved and we catch more and bigger fish now than we ever did doing it right.
Brian Bashore (46:17.175)
Lucky you.
Lance Valentine (46:31.123)
I wish I would have known how to do it wrong a long time ago. I would have made a lot more money tournament fishing, but I I think I think people they have it, it's an ego thing, right? I think a light jig is an ego thing. Look, are there times light jigs catch fish? Absolutely there are. There, that's but I would tell you in a vertical jigging situation, especially in the current we have, Detroit, St. Clair, even in the saga a little bit, don't be afraid to fish something you think is too heavy.
fish don't care. And I I'll tell you what, I I believe there's a lot to be said about a big jig banging the bottom, banging it more often, banging it harder, a big poof. You got that low frequency vibration. I think there's something to be said about that, about about triggering fish when they're when they're up there in their feed.
Brian Bashore (47:04.045)
Well water displacement is yeah.
Brian Bashore (47:14.083)
Yeah, we started up years ago vertical a lot more in the river with bigger jigs. In that case was like three eighths to a half. now I've gone smaller, but we don't vertical as much. Now we just drag because these things are so because they're super shallow and they're so belly to the bottom. But it I mean it worked great then and then I'll do vertical. But like you, I'll run a little less, like a an eighth or three sixteenth, but the clients always give heavier jigs till they get the feel for it, you know, and if I'm just cracking them, they're Well, I'm like, you gotta you're
Lance Valentine (47:24.151)
Right. Yep.
Brian Bashore (47:43.098)
You're not there yet. We're gonna get you there by end of the day. But I had something rigged up there today because we would drift through a spot. And I'm like, okay, they can cast. We're gonna pitch. But we're feathering them. We they need a light one because this jig, I was like, just throw it. And this guy was just reeling. And I was like, stop reeling. I'm like, we want it. The current, just let it go. Just keep the rod tip up and just kind of lift it. When you get a 45, reel it back up. And you can give it a little twist here and there, but I'm like, just let it go. Cause I was popping them every cast. They were just little wallets. We ended up getting a couple.
Lance Valentine (47:59.812)
Current push it.
Brian Bashore (48:11.545)
Fifteen, seventeen's out of there. This kid wants to listen and said, just let it go. We d we're using a light jig, a three sixteen for a reason. This current's coming through pretty quick. Just let it go. Just keep the rod tip up. So now we went back to some other stuff and I cut those off. Tied some other ones on, or I think went two night. Different day I had to cut off. The other day they were fine. I had other ones rigged up. I'm like, all right, nope, use these now. Sixteenth ounce heavier was all.
I'm like, nope, you want a little bigger now because it's displacing and looks like a craw dead darting off out of the silt or whatever the case is. It's making more of a a mess and they they seem to bite it just as good. So
Lance Valentine (48:45.367)
Yeah, I I I I think jig weight's a thing that a lot of anglers don't play enough with, right? And I'm a big believer in fall rate on the Detroit River, how fast your jig falls back to the bottom. you know, and and you can take the same size jig and even a big giant jig like that, right? it's funny you say I just I just did I was just doing a seminar this morning. But you know, you you put a worm on it or you take the same exact jig and you put a small swim bait on it, and they fall completely different.
Right. The the the the the time it takes to go back to the bottom is different and the angle it falls back is different. So I'm a big believer in you know, pick a jig that you can feel the bottom and work the manipulation of the fall rate and the fall angle. Work that with the with the body shape and the body size. Don't worry about just just keep your cadence going and let the plastic change how that jig actually falls. And and those are the again, those are those little things. You know, we'll start every day with two or three different body shapes on and
Usually after, you know, four, five, six fish, it becomes pretty obvious what these fish want. as far as shape and, you know, I think I again I don't think it's the shape. I think it's more the drop rate and the drop angle that makes a difference. So we start every day with a couple, let the fish tell us what they want, and then we just kind of adjust from there.
Brian Bashore (49:55.352)
There go. Moral of story. Pay attention. Let let the fish tell you what they want. Do not be afraid to upsize those jig weights, man. It's just do not do not be afraid. Do not be afraid to just try weird shit off the wall. I mean, it's it's
Lance Valentine (50:02.371)
Do not be afraid. Do not be afraid.
Lance Valentine (50:09.555)
he'd be surprised.
Brian Bashore (50:11.649)
You would be surprised. I've I mean I've caught where you're like, you know, I'll even tell a client, I'm like, don't do that, that won't work. And all of sudden they're Wham, I got one. I'm like, what the hell? All right. I'm like, all right, don't listen to me. Just keep doing that. It's working fine today. I would've like, I that that never that never works. The never never works. Never works. 'Cause it always works, right? I've like, all right, whatever. You got the one, you know, and then they'll do it again. I'm like, All right, they want it just erratic and just reel the hell out of it today, like your white bats fishing 'cause they're hitting it. So
Lance Valentine (50:28.375)
Always works, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Brian Bashore (50:41.229)
I'm gonna pay attention catch that right away and be like, okay, maybe, maybe do this. Mix it up. Today they're a little more active. Yep, pay attention. We're guides, we see it every day. We spend a couple two or three hundred days on the of the year on the water watching people, trying to educate Nobody does it better, folks, than than Lance and the at the walleye zone. It's where you go to learn about everything.
Lance Valentine (50:46.361)
Let the fish tell you what they want, yeah. So looking. Yeah.
Lance Valentine (51:02.871)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. If everybody can just slide over to the walleye zone. we've got some free f public facing stuff that we didn't have before. we were on, I think, a year and a half ago and we didn't have some free public stuff for people to watch. we got some free f public facing stuff now. we do something every day. We do a post every day in a little section called Today in the Zone. So it's the walleye zone dot com. hop in there and then as you're as you're working your way through some of the free stuff, there's a couple links there to to get a free account, open up some more stuff for you.
And then we also have different levels of membership. The biggest thing, if you got anybody that's a Detroit River angler, kicking off November 1st, we're doing what's called the Detroit River Blueprint. So we're gonna spend all winter breaking down the Detroit River. we're gonna talk about migration routes, spawning locations, key spots to find fish. We've got a whole section on presentations, we've got a whole section on traditional electronics. I think we got eight eight guys coming to talk about forward-facing sonar.
on the river, how to use it specifically with applications. we're gonna break down four of the key areas of the Detroit River in detail, do some map study. and then when we get to March, we do our nightly live fishing reports every night from March until the middle of June. I'm on every night telling you what we did, what worked, what didn't work. That's the Detroit River blueprint. That's brand new kicking off in November. But got a lot of really cool things at the at the walleye zone. We're starting to kind of get some traction. It's hard to start something new like that.
and get people there, but we've got some free public facing stuff. So the walleye zone dot com gets you there. there's stuff you can see every day and then a chance to check out some the other stuff that we're doing. We'd love to have people slide on over and see what's going on.
Brian Bashore (52:42.233)
Busy man, Captain Lance. He's over there putting out the dropping the stuff. Anything you wanna leave our listeners? We we'll we'll leave a little bit out there so I gotta go to the walleye zone to to get more, you know, but any tips, trips, nuggets?
Lance Valentine (52:43.508)
Ha ha ha.
Lance Valentine (52:51.865)
Yeah, you know, I I I I I I I think I think I think the big thing is what we talked about today. Stop worrying about the big stuff and worry about the little stuff, right? listen to what the fish are telling you. Not like it. I'm a big believer in writing stuff down, especially when you start this process. Make yourself a little spreadsheet, you know, the eight or ten, twelve things that you think are important. And every time you take you catch a fish, take 30 seconds and fill in each one of those blocks. Then you catch a second fish, fill in all those blocks. And by the time you get three or four fish.
you can start to see what's important and what's not. And then you can start really dialing in your pattern. I think, I think the thinking part of fishing is what a lot of anglers are missing. Go look at go fishing, turn off all the crap in your life, turn it off. But turn on the fishing part of your brain. Don't turn your brain, don't turn your brain completely off. Listen to what the fish are telling you. Don't be afraid to try something different. and just pay attention to the little things. You'll catch a lot more fish.
Brian Bashore (53:36.515)
Get that critical thinking skills fired back up. Yep.
Brian Bashore (53:47.994)
I think it it can sound overwhelming. They're Man, I gotta do a lot of work, but it those pieces of that puzzle it can all come together real fast. Like in in an hour, you could have all of this dialed and you're like, boom, then you got an awesome, you know, rest of the day or whatever the case is. But then there's days you'll pick up one or two of those things in a whole day. The next day you pick up a couple more. Right. It fishing it's gotta change every day.
Lance Valentine (53:57.485)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Lance Valentine (54:07.127)
It is what it is, right? Yeah. I I tell I tell pe I tell people every trip is like taking a thousand piece puzzle and dumping it the table. And then you turn it upside down and it's just nothing but gray. So how would you put a puzzle together that way? Well, the first thing you do, you find the corners. So now you gotta figure out where the fish are, how deep of water they're in, and and where you know how deep the fish are located. That's that's step one. Once you do that, you got the four corners, then we can start putting in the borders. And at some point we get to the point we can flip that puzzle over and start putting it together and
And that's kind of how fishing works. We have to find those corners first. Then we can start working on the edges. And once we get some of those edges built, now we've got the start of a pattern. We can flip it over and really start putting together the little details. So you're starting fresh every single day. I know you I know you as a guide know that, right? it's it's is afternoon or morning better. They're all different. I I I can catch fifty in the morning and catch two in the afternoon because the weather changed. I i every trip is different and approach it that way.
Brian Bashore (54:49.007)
I was like, and then every day you get to shake it up in the box and dump it back out.
Brian Bashore (54:56.664)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (55:02.797)
Yes it is.
Lance Valentine (55:04.001)
approach it that way. I think I think that is if I give you a piece of advice, pay attention to little details, write stuff down until that process becomes automatic. Because I think for you and I it's it's just automatic. But it doesn't start automatic, right? You have to write it down. Yeah, it's a long time. Yeah. And then you know the other thing is at the end of the day, take a half an hour, put the boat on the trailer, go somewhere quiet, think about your day. What did I miss? What did I see?
Brian Bashore (55:18.583)
No, we've been doing this a long time. Captain Lance's been doing this for thirty plus years, people.
Lance Valentine (55:34.189)
Did I talk to anybody else that caught fish doing something different than I did? What happened today that I missed, put all that together. and I come back into this day, I still in my journal write a fishing report for the day. What I did, what worked, what didn't work, what I saw other people do, things I think I missed, things I got right, things I didn't check. I still do that because that that debrief, if you will, at the end of the day, sometimes like, that's what I missed. and that's a huge part of it. I you as a tournament fisherman, that's you know, every night we're doing that with our with our with our team.
Right, we're going back in debriefing and it's amazing what you pick up when you go, crap, that's what I missed. so exactly the next day. Now I got it. Right. And then you go out and it's it's not right tomorrow, but it is what it is. No, I know. There you go.
Brian Bashore (56:08.941)
That what gets you hungry to go back out the next day 'cause now you're like, damn it, you know. Yep. Yep.
But but now I know and I and it's that one thing I'm gonna do every time, you know, or try or whatever. So but that's that's it. We're always learning and learning something new. And you like say you could talk to a hundred of us and you get ninety nine different answers every day because it's it changes every day. There's no right, wrong way. There's the way you do it is the way you're gonna do it, but just keep keep an open mind. Keep learning, pay attention to the details. That's it. That's and sign up for the walleye zone, educate yourself.
Lance Valentine (56:32.217)
Yeah, yeah.
Sure does.
Lance Valentine (56:43.513)
There you
Wallwise own dot com. There you go.
Brian Bashore (56:48.239)
All right, thank thank you a ton. Captain Lance, thank you all for tuning in. An absolute plethora of information for just not just Detroit River, but anywhere really. But focusing hard on that Detroit River because apparently the big fish are on their way, he says. They're coming. So go chase those tanks. That's a fun, fun place to fish, and it is full of them for sure. So thank you and thank all you for tuning in. Keep those lines tight and bundle up. Time to get the layers out, cause the fall fishing bite is about to begin. We'll see you on the water.
Lance Valentine (56:51.245)
My pleasure.