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And we are back and this time with “Brand” in our sights!! Building relationships with customers and audiences has never been so important as it is today, so strap in and join James, Paul and Jamie for another episode of Behind the Madness!!
A podcast helping companies grow with marketing strategies, automation and time-saving tips and creative solutions.
James: Hello, and welcome to another
episode of behind the madness.
I'm your host, James Roberts,
founder, and owner of Method.
We are a growth agency who are hell bent
on unlocking company's potential through
creative and marketing techniques.
Today I am joined again by Paul
and Jamie, mainly because we had
so much fun in the previous two
episodes that I've invited them back.
So they are here joining me in this
episode, but before we jump on in, I just
want us to mention a couple of things,
which is if you are new, then welcome
make sure you give us a like, give us
a bit of love around social media and
also make sure you follow the podcast.
So any new episodes drop
straight in on your phone?
Also, it's nice to have you on board.
So it's not just our parents that are
liking and sharing all of our content.
We actually have some actual
followers, which would be amazing.
So today's episode, we are
talking all about brand.
So let's jump in with today's topic
about branding, Jamie and Paul.
Hello.
Jamie: Hi James.
James: So brand, let's start
this off with, let's talk about
some of our favorite brands.
I think there's a nice way to do it.
And then what we can do is also
do, you know, maybe talk about
what they're doing, right.
And opportunities that we've kind
of got to then apply that ethos
maybe into some listeners companies.
So who wants to start us off.
Jamie: I'll jump in.
So I'm going to talk
about one of the big boys.
Obviously we'll all know apple maybe a
bit of an obvious choice, but I'm going
to kind of jump back in time because
everyone knows what Steve jobs and his
team did, but from a branding point of
view, they kind of lit a generation.
Because if you recast your mind back
to, if you're old enough to when iPods
and marketing campaigns used to have
think different underneath, apple
logo, it's a really interesting thing
because everyone thought, oh, who's
this they're thinking differently.
Like, what's that all about?
And they had various adverts, but
then one of the things they did over
time is they phased that wording out
because their influence of the brand
already made people think differently.
When you into one of their or you
unpackage, one of their products, when
you used it for the first time, you
thought differently, you were different.
So they didn't need their wording anymore.
And to me like that is the power of
brand it's connecting with people on
such a level that you're influencing
and connecting your beliefs as
a business with your audience.
James: Yeah.
I think what Apple did really, really
well was they were a tech business
that could have gone down the tech
route of advertising that they did
tech and they made amazing tech but
what they did was really sell you the
dream, which is why now you get people
camping outside the apple store just
before they released a new product.
It's not about necessarily the tech
because they're actually, sometimes
behind a lot of other companies in terms
of their that technology labor release.
But what they've done through their
brand is, you know, if you go back
to, as you mentioned, the, the iPod,
it wasn't around what, you know,
how good the music quality was.
It was around having I think they said
a thousand, probably more than that,
but you know, 10,000 songs in your back
pocket, that's what boards are saying.
That's what, what made us go?
Wow.
Not the fact that they were talking
about the tech, but in a way that
we could relate to and we wanted,
that made them uber cool, you know,
it's a very hard thing to pull off.
VW very, very similar thing where
you, you know, you'll pay over
the odds for something which isn't
as good as some other brands.
I love apple don't get me wrong.
And I think that what they do is, is
they do create these simpler processes.
But yeah, that's what created was this
way of us buying into the product.
Without being bamboozeled by tech
or any of that kind of detail
that we didn't need to know.
Jamie: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
They realize what their product was.
They realized how smart it was, but
they realized that their audience
probably just wouldn't get that.
They wouldn't be that impressed
with kind of, oh, it's running
chip is having this iOS.
Like you said a thousand songs in
your pocket now that's relatable.
That's story their
could get on board with.
I always remember one of Steve
Jobs' great performances and he was
introducing the iPod mini and he said,
have you ever wondered what that little
pocket is on the front of some jeans
and everyone can straight away go?
Yeah.
What is that little
pocket for on those jeans?
And then he pulled out the iPod Mini
and straight away you go genius,
Just that's that's the brand.
That's the, innovative thinking that
then you transmit to your customer.
As soon as they pick up one,
they go, I am different.
I am a rebel.
James: Yeah.
Yeah.
Love it.
Paul: Yeah, so rather than going
for a particular brand, I've gone
for the automotive industry cars
Now they've different eras of car,
obviously technology moves forward.
so more recently seen, well in this
or the nineties and the two we saw
embossed shiny logos that sort of caught
your eye were shiney and new but more
recently they've made them a lot simpler.
They've got rid of some of the wording.
They got rid of the brand name,
they've just got the logos now.
They've also just using a flat color.
So I mean, some of it just
recently changed Toyota,
they've just got the circular T.
Volkswagen, it's very simple circle with
the VW and it's always been like that,
but they've just made it a flat one color.
Volvo., They got rid of that circle.
Last year and the year before I think
it was but they brought it back.
It was just as a really, simple circle
and arrow Nissan, SEAT, BMW have all
done the same, it's all nice flat colors.
Pretty simple, really easy to read.
But I think the first company to
do that really was Tesla in 2003.
Now they've not changed their logo.
In 2003, they just had the T the
arch over the top of it with Tesla
written underneath it is a flat red
and they've kept with it and obviously
that's stood the test of time.
14 years later everyone else is doing the
same now, so very much, same as James was
saying that with apple and Jamie were
that sort of trailblazers, I suppose, with
their cars, but also with their design the
others have picked it up 15 years later.
James: This happens a lot
in industries and I hadn't
appreciated it within the cars.
Now you've said it, I've got them all up
on my screen and having a look through
and it would be you're absolutely right.
It's it's something which happened with,
with Hi-Fis was, it was a brilliant
one where a Hi-Fi color used to change.
Obviously now it's completely changed.
They, they live in our pockets , or
they're now pods on our, on our desktop
on our worktops and things like that.
But we used to have a black, then all of
a sudden you had to have a silver Hi-Fi.
reason being, and you could go into the
shops and they were all silver or they
were all black before then the reason
they changed the color was because
it made you a black one look old.
So you have to then go, oh, I can't,
you know, how old is your Hi-Fi?
Especially if you look at the demographics
who were buying Hi-Fis, you know your
parents, with their full stack that
they might've had in their living
room, weren't not bothered, but you
know, the kids were like, hang on a
minute, kind of a black one anymore.
The Silver's cool.
So there was nothing actually wrong.
And this is half of the problem list
of things wrong with all black Hi-Fi.
A lot the technology that was inside
still was very, very similar, but you
just felt it was old because of the black.
So now you have the silver
one that you had to have.
I think the same thing probably applies
here where Tesla have come out with,
you know, all of their tech and all
of their amazing new advances that
they've kind of put into cars, and all
of a sudden it's making these older
brands that they've been around, for a
long, long time makes them look older.
So you have to evaluate your brand to
stay up with the competition, which
is why they've all had to do it.
They've all had to look at
themselves and go, do you know
what we need to go with the trends?
And within design, we will have
trends, there are trends that go
through, they suddenly appear from an
industry and they're cottoned onto by
other industries and that then drives
this movement through, we all used
to have buttons with drop shadows.
We used to always have the embossing,
you know, talking about websites.
Now, all of that's disappeared
and websites are flat.
So having badges that were embossed
that were shiny, that had all of
this Chrome effect probably came
from relating it to the actual badge.
But now we live in such a digital
world that just looks old fashioned
and they can't have that, especially
with a new kid on the block.
so yeah, really really interesting.
Paul: Like you say, the logos now you get
into a car and you see the logo on your
steering wheel, But now you get into a
car and you see the logo on the massive
screen that's next to the dashboard.
And that's what pops up.
So you want it to be modern.
I think you're right with the
technology more noticeably
than the Hi-Fis was the TVs.
You've got this massive black TV in the
corner, and then it changed to silver TV
and there was a hideous moment in history
where white was the color and it was white
TVs and white high-fives and everything.
It just it didn't look good.
It's been like fashion, it
comes around and around.
And now obviously we're modern, you've
got things like sky glass, where you
can choose one of six different colors.
You've got Samsung frame you
stick the TV on the wall and
it just doesn't look like a TV.
So yeah, it's fashion and
it moves with the times.
Whereas your brand has to do that as well.
You can't be a modern design marketing
agency with a 20, 25 year old logo
because it just doesn't look good If you
were designing other companies brands.
Jamie: That's super interesting.
I'm going to, I'm going to jump in
with one of my bombshell questions
for the two of you guys were talking
a lot, obviously about the colors,
the logos, how they all feel.
So obviously with these changing all
the time, what's the core to brands
because the vision doesn't change.
The mission doesn't change.
And the values aren't really changing all
the nice bits that are customer facing.
What about the internal
audioJamesRoberts62926013399: stuff
James: I think that the logo is
just that it's a part of your brand.
And it isn't your brand.
Exactly.
As you said, you have your messages,
you have your ethos, you have your
mission statement, what you want
to achieve as an organization.
Those, as we've mentioned on previous
podcasts, they shouldn't change.
You might tweak them, but
you're, you know, the end goals
of what you want to achieve.
Probably still stay the same.
The way that you need to
get there is focusing again.
And we say this a lot as a common
theme that you need to concentrate
on your consumers, on your
customers and what their needs are.
And if they're all of a sudden buying
the white TVs, if they're all of a sudden
buying your Chrome Hi-Fis then they need
to either buy into the brand, which is
why apple, going back to apple, haven't
changed their logo so much, you know,
it's tweaked over the time because we've
bought into them, not necessarily bought
into a logo or bought into a design style.
We have definitely bought
into apple, the brand.
We understand what they want to do, and
we just, you know, almost love them.
Jamie: It it's like a friend, isn't
it, rather than a company, like
when you get on with someone, just
one of your friends, it's probably
because you share similar values or
you like the same kind of things.
It's like you said, it's building out
that knowledge of your we've said this
before as well, that buyer persona, that
knowledge of your audience and why they
love you, why they connect with you.
That's the core really?
And that's why they'll stay longer.
Paul: Yeah, I think using the car
industry, as an example with that, is that
Jamie: I think he wants
a new company car James.
Paul: I do, and if one of the next
few that I mention, be more than happy.
James: Going back to that.
We're going back to
mentioning a load of brands.
Like we haven't done a whole
subject around branding.
We had to mention a few more.
Yeah.
Paul: If it works for
socks, works with Ferraris.
So companies like Ferrari
Lamborghini and Porsche, haven't
gone down the lines of flat logo.
They've kept with maybe a slightly
embossed logo or a shiny logo, or more of
a 3d effect on them because I think that.
James just mentioned this,
you buy into their brand,
like apple is a premium brand.
They don't need to wow you
with their logo, you know
what they stand for already.
You know what quality you're going to get.
It's expensive.
It's expensive for a reason.
Jamie: Well one of those funny things,
isn't it does that does that joke of
why Lamborghini don't advertise on TV?
And the answer is because that demographic
aren't sitting around watching TV.
Paul: Yeah.
that will be in a glossy
magazine somewhere.
James: they might be
listening to our podcasts.
This leads me quite nicely
onto who I've picked now.
I've picked a company called tribe.
You may or may not have heard of them.
They essentially make protein
bars or kind of plant protein,
vegan, gluten free type bars.
Now they are aimed very much at runners
or the runner kind of community where
you were getting, say they do some
active oats and things like that.
So you're kind of getting
this protein in a day.
I found them because I wanted
something that I could have as a snack
throughout the day to kind of top you
like, we always get that little lull
in the afternoon and I didn't want
to be reaching for, you know, some
chocolate bars or something else.
I wanted something which
was a lot healthier.
So I actually found them through their
product, but then learning more about
them they actually have the Tribe
foundation now the Tribe foundation,
and I am reading this off their
website, just so I can get it right.
They essentially started off in 2013.
Tom guy and Bob who completed what the
first run for love, where they did a
thousand miles across Europe, and it
was all to fight child trafficking.
So they were joined by
a load of other runners.
I think on that point it was 250
runners that joined them to raise some
money to help, build up awareness
around child trafficking, which
you know, is an amazing foundation.
Now, I didn't know anything about that I
bought the Tribe bars, I think I'm right
in saying when they were doing their
runs, they were creating these kinds of
bars for themselves to keep them going.
You know, it's a huge, huge distances
that they were kind of covering and
they needed this protein and all of the
goodness to kind of keep them going.
And then they suddenly realize, well,
hang on a minute, if we make a product
that we can push out to a market or
a sector and then get their buy in,
which is exactly what happened to me.
So I was in that demographic.
I, you know, I, I try and run.
I wouldn't say I'm a runner.
But I found these bars because
it was something that I needed.
I didn't find them because
of their foundation.
that was a consequence.
Them selling their bars.
They give some money from
every bar into the foundation.
So they are as a byproduct.
Their goal is what we've
been talking about here.
Their, their kind of whole movement is
to raise awareness for child trafficking.
Now they've obviously got
their foundation set up.
They've got their charity setup, which
they are trying to get people involved in.
So well-worth and look while I'm
talking about it, their foundation
is tribe freedom foundation.com.
So go and have a look at that.
But they are obviously trying to
raise awareness about this issue.
And as a byproduct, they realized
that selling their bars was a good
way to get to a sector to bring them
in through something they wanted
through something they needed, but
then educate them later, which I think
is a super, super interesting idea
that they've moved on from what their
goal was, or their mission is still
there, but they've moved on and how
they're getting that message out there.
And they've actually created a
product to drive that, to use the
kind of enforcer you guys heard
of Tribe, or do you think of
audioJamesRoberts62926013399: tribe
Jamie: Yeah, I I think I tried
one actually on one of our
last content creation days.
And I didn't know the story either.
And I think it's, again, it's going
back to that connecting point.
Like now you can connect with them on
a different level, not just what the
problem solves and it's making you almost
feel like you are part of the tribe..
You are their community, like we've heard
community, whether it's in social media
world, whether it's in the branding world,
whether it's in every world and business
now it's, it's what everyone wants.
I think those connect points are so
pivotal because like we mentioned before,
it's that friend to friend, rather
than that big corporate to a buying
customer, just make sure that emotion
gets involved and then you are connected.
You're more likely to stay longer.
You're looking at these brands who are
trying to build like a hundred year
brands and you're seeing more of them,
obviously, a lot of them aren't there yet,
but you look at some like Virgin or Apple
or even your Microsoft's, which aren't
as riveting, but they have that loyalty.
They have that emotional connection.
Yeah.
Oh, and by the way, the
Tribe bars were delicious.
James: They are amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
interesting.
I think as well, two points
to come back to is one.
They have got that product now
in Ocado, Boots, Sainsbury's,
Wholefoods, loads of different places.
So, you've probably seen their bar,
which interesting cause I don't think.
It's as easy to get a foundation
or to get a message out there.
And certainly you wouldn't go into
Sainsbury's or Boots or any of those,
if you were just the foundation
yet now you've got that bar in
front of so many different eyes.
And then if you like the bar,
like exactly like I did I actually
bought a few more off the website,
I subscribed off the website.
And then as part of that, they
have two separate websites.
One's for the bars and one
is for their foundation.
But they are interconnected.
So when I was on the bars at the bottom,
it was got, well, why are we doing this?
This is why we're doing it.
And what was really nice was I
bought the bar because I liked it.
And it was something.
Why else would you, would you buy them?
But one of a sudden I've got this fuzzy
feeling because it was like, oh, I've
kind of helped something, which it's this
amazing combination of, I bought a good
product and it is a good, good product.
I've enjoyed it.
But I've almost got this reward as well,
which was this kind of a little tap
on the back to say, well, well done,
you've done your you've done your bit.
And that felt good.
And as a consequence, I've learned
more about them as a consequence from
that I've brought it up on a podcast.
So it's, it's clearly
doing the right message.
Jamie: A hundred percent and I think
before kind of any, like, we look to
wrap things up on this one, there's
a quote by Maya Angelou, which says,
people won't remember what you say.
People won't remember what you do, but
they will remember how you made them feel.
And I think when it comes
to branding that's so apt.,
Paul: I think with tribe were being quite
clever with their brand and marketing, is
that if you go into a shop buy a Tribe
bar, you're more likely to pop onto the
website and buy a box of Tribe bars.
whereas you go into a shop a Mars
bar I don't think ever been on the
Mars website I've been eating Mars
products for, I don't know, 25 years.
That's the story behind it.
And you go and find the story
because you liked the brand.
James says you've got this, you've got
their story into every major retailer
in the country with ok that they might
have fought to get their product in
there, but they fought product in on
their story and onto their website and
buying a pack of 25 and then finding
about the foundation that's rewarding
James: I think what's nice about
everything we've picked is obviously
and just kind of wrap it all up is
Apple knew it was going to be tech-based
when they kind of started off.
I think it was in the
garage with Steve jobs and
Jamie: Steve Wozniac.
James: they kind of knew that it
was going to be a computer that
they were going to kind of create.
It was very much in that,
in that marketplace and they
haven't moved away from that.
They've definitely, they're
creating some amazing products.
Why would they they've obviously
looked at other tech base.
Cars were always kind of going to be cars.
They're looking at different ways that
they can, that they can transport people.
But a lot of those that car
industry have always been a, a
car, not necessarily transport.
I think a lot did come around.
I think they were all apart from
Lamborghini that were obviously
tractors first and Jeremy correct me
if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain
it was it was Lamborghini's attracts
was first before they started building
cars, but essentially the cars of.
What's interesting about tribe
is that wasn't their goal.
Their goal was to raise
awareness for a problem.
And then they went
into, into the products.
It's very similar to one of our
clients in Remarkable, where they are
very much eco thinking and reducing
waste, reducing plastic waste.
As a consequence of that they sell
stationery and then known oddly for
the stationery more than the background
story around that, because it's a way
of getting to that to the marketplace.
Another one to check out
actually is Remarkable.
They make some amazing products.
And I think that's, what's really
interesting around brand is how you
can focus about getting your message
out there in so many different ways?
So, thanks again, Jamie.
Thanks again, Paul.
Really enjoyed that.
Make sure that we get our
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We're getting some great
feedback from you guys already.
And we want to obviously build on
that and create content that you
guys are enjoying listening to.
So until the next time,
thank you very much.