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Welcome to OxTalks, powered by OxLEP. OxTalks is your partner in tackling business challenges and achieving your goals, giving an insight into the great work that OxLEP does to support local organisations and communities. OxTalks host Howard Bentham talks to successful leaders from Oxfordshire and beyond to hear their advice to help your business flourish.
[00:00:00] Howard Bentham: Hello there, and welcome to another edition of OxTalks. Powered by OxLEP, the local enterprise partnership for Oxfordshire, and sponsored by leading national law firm Mills & Reeve, OxTalks explores many of the issues currently affecting business, as well as highlighting the great work that OxLEP does and how they could potentially help your company thrive.
I'm Howard Bentham, and throughout these podcasts, I'll be talking to successful leaders from Oxfordshire and beyond to hear their practical advice and steps to help you achieve your goals. All of my guests are keen to stress the critical support that is available from OxLEP and how it could be fundamental in helping your company or organisation prosper.
Geographically, our focus is on Oxfordshire's businesses and issues in these episodes, but naturally you may well be listening to us elsewhere. Many of the issues we experience here will be very similar to the ones that you're potentially facing where you are. Please do share any thoughts and observations and join in the conversation. Head to our social media. We are @OxfordshireLEP on X and Oxfordshire Local Enterprise Partnership on LinkedIn, and to raise questions with us for future discussions, please use the email address in the podcast description, it'll be good to hear from you.
In this edition, our focus is how to create a happy and motivated workforce with a particular emphasis on staff recruitment and retention. Our guest, whom I shall introduce shortly, is a leader from the hospitality industry, but a lot of the struggles around finding and then keeping the best people will be common across most sectors. We live in different times, where today many vacancies remain unfilled and employers are battling to get the right people to join their organisations. This is true of huge employers like the NHS and across most business sectors where skills are in short supply. Unlike a decade ago and more, it's very much now a buyer's market for job hunters. So what can employers and companies do to make sure they're getting the pick of the bunch? That youngsters entering the job market are enticed into a particular industry where they can clearly see a future career. Is it all about the money? Salaries are important obviously, but prospective employees want so much more, a positive working culture, respect, career progression, that concerns on the environment and around diversity and inclusion to be properly addressed, to mention just a few, it is now quite a checklist that employers have to meet, the balance has certainly shifted. Our OxTalks guest has lots of skills and definitely brings a lot to the party. She works at one of the most stunning locations in Oxfordshire and rubs shoulders with some of the world's best chefs on a daily basis.
I'm delighted to welcome to OxTalks, from Belmont le Manoir aux Quatre Saisons, HR Director, Sarah Powell.
Sarah, welcome. Before we talk Raymond Blanc, beautiful gardens, hotels, oh, I'm really intrigued about your backstory. You were a modern languages graduate teaching English as a foreign language in Réunion, a dot in the Indian Ocean somewhere. It sounds like the dream life. Then reading your backstory, you are a hospitality trainee with Hilton and Gateshead in the northeast of the UK. That's quite a transition. How on earth did you get from there to there?
[00:03:28] Sarah Powell: Lots happened there. So, I did go to university and study languages, because that was the only thing that I enjoyed, in all honesty. So I went to university, and as part of your language degree, you have to do a year abroad and I'd been to France quite a lot, I was looking to go when I was younger, and that's why I spoke the language. So I decided on the form, did I want to go to a French university, did I want to go back to France? No, I'm going to pick a overseas territory, and not many people get it, so I thought I'll just try my luck and then I managed to secure a place in Réunion Island, which is just south of Mauritius, so I lived there for a whole year. I was teaching English as a foreign language, but I was probably the only English person they'd met at that particular time, because this was, you know, there was no phones as such. The internet wasn't great on the island, so it was a very remote place. When I came back, I finished my degree, and I was told to go to the careers advisor and he could find me my dream job and he got his little book, you know, not the internet, his little book, to see what was under L for languages, and he said Oh, you should be a teacher, and I'd done that and those who know me, I don't have the patience to teach children. So I decided not to be a teacher. And the only thing under L for languages was the Hilton Graduate Scheme, because you had to speak two or more languages to be part of the scheme. So I was lucky enough to, after a six month assessment process, two and a half thousand people applied, and I was lucky to be one of the twelve that were selected to join Hilton at the time.
So my first placement was in Hilton Newcastle Gateshead. It just opened, it was a brand new hotel, and there I did my operations placement. So that was the bar, nights, restaurant, housekeeping, all of the operational departments, and then after a year, my second placement was in Paris. So I moved to Paris and I was based at the Eiffel Tower, Paris. At that time, there was five hotels, but I was reporting to the vice president of Eastern Europe and France. So I had lots of different hotels. I had Rhodes, I had Strasbourg, I had the five in Paris, and I was the environmental coordinator at a time when sustainability didn't mean anything at all in hotels. So, we brought in the likes of not washing the towels every day, sustainable products, partnering with charities and the CSR. So, it was a whole new concept to try and bring in and I'd never heard of sustainability and then all of a sudden, I was the sustainability coordinator for Paris. So, it was an interesting opportunity. And then from there, I've just started in lots of different hotel careers. So I moved back to the UK and I moved to the hotel monster, if you like, of Hilton Birmingham Metropole. So it's an 800 bedroom hotel. I was housekeeping manager there. I'd never really worked in housekeeping. So...
[00:05:59] Howard Bentham: Its a really sort of weavy path, isnt it?
[00:06:00] Sarah Powell: It is, and I think that's the beauty of hospitality, you can go down any route and it was only after three years at Birmingham that my, I was speaking to my dad and it was very much, what are you gonna do? Literally jumping all the time, but I enjoyed every part of it and it was then that I took a real kind of look at all the opportunities that I'd had, all the jobs, and it was the people that made the most difference and so that's when I decided to take my career path down the HR route and so that was my kind of turning point and I left Hilton, I joined Luxury Family Hotels, they were just starting, it was a brand new company then, and we were setting up all of the HR for their eight properties that they had at the time. Then I moved on to, I worked for the, for Crowne Plaza as well and then my biggest role before this role was with Soho House. So I looked after everything outside of London. So I opened Soho Farmhouse. I was employee number two and when I left there was 602. So it was a huge four year project to open Soho Farmhouse. So Soho Farmhouse, Babington House down in Somerset. So I headed up all of their people functions. So it's a really interesting part of the industry to be within private members.
[00:07:06] Howard Bentham: There'll be lots of people watching or listening to this, either that have had a similar experience in that you don't know where to go, or maybe they've got children, grandchildren that are thinking exactly that. I'm interested in hospitality or whatever it might be, but what's your advice here? Should you focus in or is it keep it broad until the light bulb moment happens?
[00:07:27] Sarah Powell: Yeah, I think, especially in hospitality, and it probably works across a lot of industries, you've got to experience everything, because I don't think I've ever met a general manager, for example, that didn't start as a waiter, or a KP, or a receptionist.
[00:07:38] Howard Bentham: A KP?
[00:07:38] Sarah Powell: Kitchen porter, sorry, my bad. So they start at the bottom, because when you have worked your way up, you know what everybody feels, how they think, the challenges that they have, so very rarely do you come in at a top level without ever experiencing the bottom level, and for me it's always been, if you have a CV, and I receive hundreds of CVs every year, and a CV is always your past. It's a piece of text that tells me your past. It doesn't tell me you now, and it doesn't tell me your future. So, I look at the person that's in front of me, but I always saw my CV as a set of collectibles, if you like, especially in hospitality. So, I started at the Crowne Plaza, and that was my first HR job, and then I looked, and I thought, Okay, I don't have multi-site. I don't have more than one hotel. So, I joined Luxury Family and had eight properties. Then I didn't have an opening and in hotels, an opening is a very big experience to have on your CV because to open a hotel is no mean feed, and so that's when I moved to Soho house, an open farmhouse, and then I looked again at my CV and thought, okay, I don't have five star. So then I, started with the, then I moved over to...
[00:08:38] Howard Bentham: Filling in the blanks.
[00:08:40] Sarah Powell: ...To Le Manoir so for me, I kind of look at what don't I have, because that helps me with my next step that was the right thing for me. I know some people who, they stay in one job because they absolutely love it and so it just depends on what works for you.
[00:08:53] Howard Bentham: Let's talk about the Le Manoir role that you're doing right now. Give us a brief overview of what it is.
[00:09:00] Sarah Powell: It might be easier to say what isnt it! I have been at Le Manoir for four years now, but I also have a dual role in the company. So whilst half my time is based as the HR director of Le Manoir, I'm also the divisional director of HR for Northern Europe and Africa and the reason I took on this extended role was because on my CV, I didn't have global. So that was my next collectible was global. So I look after the hotels in the UK and also the hotels in South Africa and the safaris in Botswana. So, it's a very interesting mix of hospitality that I now look after, but in terms of my day to day at Le Manoir, it's very operational. There's kind of different styles of HR that people don't always realise, so I'm very much operational, hands on. Every day is different, whether it's payroll, training, meeting the team, organising the staff party, there's just lots of different things, so it's a real mix, because it's, quite a large team, and I think that's why I enjoy more the operational side of HR, that it's very hands on.
[00:09:59] Howard Bentham: Let's focus then on how you look after your team and what specific career development or training programmes that you offer at Le Manoir.
[00:10:07] Sarah Powell: We offer a lot, because we're lucky enough to have access to lots of different training, whether that's, as Belmond we're part of the larger Louis Vuitton group, so we're owned by Louis Vuitton, so they can provide a lot of training, Belmond itself provide a lot of training, but we're also lucky enough to be able to develop our own, so we work closely, me and my team work very closely with the managers, what is the business needs, where are we falling short slightly? What are the needs of the business in the future? What are the skill sets coming in? Because that's been a huge challenge over the past 12 months with the actual skill set coming in. So designing your own training really does help in that respect and I think, yes, you've got to have your suite of training, your packages of different modules that you can offer, but you've also got to be flexible in terms of what is needed at the time and to be, to me, development is individual, because some people come in and they're really experienced and may need a little less of the development side, but they want something to take them to the next level. Whereas somebody just coming in with a limited skill set needs the job skills first as a focus and so you've got to have a real breadth and depth of training at all levels.
[00:11:10] Howard Bentham: Do you find people are joining you because they see what you offer them in terms of training roles and development?
[00:11:17] Sarah Powell: I think there's that, but I think also we have to move away from training as being in the classroom, and that's what we struggle sometimes. You know, we have people who, they, we talk to them and we say, oh, how are your training? Oh, I haven't done any training since I started and you look at it and you think, well, how can you now do that? Somebody's shown you how to do that. So a lot of the training, especially at Le Manoir, with the service and the style, is hands on, on the job, being trained by the experts that, that we employ and we have amazing training in our managers, just naturally how they organise service, how they operate their shifts, how they deal with guests, that the team just watch them, the team learn from just watching and rather than sitting in a classroom and being told how to do it, it's more natural to watch somebody do it than to be told how to do it and be given a script. So...
[00:12:01] Howard Bentham: Yeah, and I guess within that comes managing personalities as well. If you're learning from somebody who's teaching you, you've got the idea of what this man or this woman's like, but creatives can be quite challenging as well and obviously you've got some big names. I'm not hanging this on the likes of Luke Selby or Raymond Blanc, but what's it like managing creatives who can be challenging?
[00:12:25] Sarah Powell: I think the most challenging that you find with creatives is everything is in their head, and they sometimes struggle to get it out in words. So if it's Raymond for example, he has a dish, he knows what he wants, he knows the taste that he wants, but then to try and explain that in a way that is then put on the plate.
[00:12:44] Howard Bentham: Without throwing pots and pans around!
[00:12:45] Sarah Powell: Oh no, it's not like that at all. It's definitely not like that. But it is this whole, because the creatives for me live in their head. They don't, you know, Raymond is very articulate and he can explain anything and he's very passionate and he's very inspiring when he talks to the team but the dish has to look how it is pictured in his head but he's got to then try and communicate that out to the team and so that for me that's the main challenge and so it's just opening those levels of communication with them all.
[00:13:10] Howard Bentham: Well, it's good to hear that it's a happy workforce and there's no pots and pans flying around!
[00:13:14] Sarah Powell: Not at it wouldn't happen.
[00:13:17] Howard Bentham: So what was it like before you joined then? You mentioned Soho Farmhouse where you were employee number two, but what have been the key changes that you've implemented that make the place that it is now?
[00:13:28] Sarah Powell: I think, we don't want to say, but I think COVID changed the entire industry and the entire world. The way that we operate is completely different. We, a lot of our team, reassessed what they wanted to do, as a lot of people, and so, you know, they came back and they didn't want to do the full time hours, they wanted part time hours, they wanted to compress their hours, they didn't want to come back at all, they wanted to try a different industry, and so we had to completely change. When COVID hit, we changed overnight and moved everything virtual, and me, my team and a lot of us, we worked all the way through the whole period, but it was really the relationships that you created during that period. So we, you know, I personally called all of the team every month just to check in on them and that was. a lot of people to check in on. If people were really struggling, we brought them in for a day, for a week off furlough and we brought them into the gardens because the gardens didn't stop growing. Just to give them something, just to give them, to get them out of the house, to get them back some purpose, some fresh air, some, a bit of normality in their lives and I think moving forward, the whole market has shifted. It's now an employee market. It's not about what can you do for me? It's about in terms of from an employer's point of view, it's what I need from you and the generation coming in now, it's very fast paced, they want this now, they want the next promotion now. It's, and so the industry have to shift a little bit more, so with what they're looking for, it's a different time to manage. We've got more people than ever because of this whole part time working, reducing their hours. So...
[00:14:55] Howard Bentham: Is it expensive?
[00:14:56] Sarah Powell: It's very expensive. More car parking, more uniforms, more staff food, more lockers, all these things that people think it soon adds up because we're not talking an extra 10 people, we're talking another 100 people that have come on board since we reopened in 2020. So yeah, I think it's, as an employee you have to be now flexible. You have to listen to what the team wants and you have to, it's not a one size fits all for welfare, for benefits, for engagement. Everybody's completely different and it's just being able to recognise that, but do it in a way that you're not ticking boxes and you're not pushing things in place because you think they should have it. It's listening to what do they want to have because you'll have more success that way.
[00:15:35] Howard Bentham: You've used that word a couple of times there, listening to what the employees and the team want. But equally, you've got to have rules and HR has rules.
[00:15:44] Sarah Powell: Yeah.
[00:15:45] Howard Bentham: Building trust is a crucial thing, really good to hear that you're ringing people personally. But how can you, as an employer, an HR professional, build that trust with the people that are under you?
[00:15:57] Sarah Powell: I think there's quite a, there's quite a few things you can do. I think one is, I've always said it's all about your credibility in what you do because I, coming from an operational background, I understand the challenges of the team and when I speak to them about it, when they need something from me, or when there's a, if they wanted to increase their headcount, it's not just a case of saying yes or saying no. It's really understanding what that looks like and why and bringing your own suggestions to the table. If the hotel is stuck, you know, the hotel have seen me many a time, changing beds, washing dishes, especially when we reopened after COVID. It was all hands on deck, and so it was flat shoes on in the bedrooms, I used to be a housekeeping manager, so I can make beds. It's not a problem. So I think it's when the going gets tough, you're actually there with them. You're not... No. Not at home, you don't do this like a chef doesn't cook at home. It's the same thing. So I think if you are there with them through the challenging times, but you're also at the same time celebrating the good times.
So everybody comes to the Christmas lunch, we have no guests in house, and so they come and they, we give them a gift, but it's just there, you're cleaning tables and you're serving them and it's just, and celebrating what they do. Simple things in HR, it's knowing people's names. The amounts of people that I know who work in HR that they don't know even the names of the people around. It's a challenge, you know, all 250, and obviously it keeps changing, but I think it's, you know, to refer to people by name, to check in on them and listening doesn't have to be a committed thing. Listening can just be spending 20 minutes and going out in the operation and talking to them and really asking the right questions and then the last thing for trust, I think, is always just do what you promise. Because there's so many things that they, and the team know that what we do comes from a good place. It's not because somebody told us to, or we saw somebody else do it, or it ticks a box because we have to, or we know it's the right thing to do. We'll only do something if it is the right thing to do and I've always said to my team, you know, we have people, rightly or wrongly, I don't write strategies, and probably my company's sitting cringing at this, but I don't, because I think if you're the person who spends five weeks of your life writing a 2020 strategy, it didn't really work out for you. So I think for me, I'd rather have something that is very simple. So I always have a tagline that I give to my team. So for Le Manoir, my team is, to be the most desirable workplace in the UK. To be the best workplace in the UK. So when they come to me and they want to do something, if it doesn't tick that box, then we don't do it and if they bring me an idea, and they want to do it because they've seen another company do it, then it's not the best, it's the same. So we need to then take that idea and elevate it to the next level as to how we can be the best and I think just having that, and everybody focusing on that mantra in HR really helps. You know, they don't have to read through the pages and pages of a strategy, it's a very simple, does that make us the best in the UK? And if it does, then go ahead, if it doesn't elevate it, change it, don't get rid of it because it was a good idea but we're not copy pasting what everyone else does.
[00:18:45] Howard Bentham: That passion that you have is clear for everybody to see and hear. That obviously comes from within, but it's ever so tiring to do. It's much easier to have a strategy.
[00:18:54] Sarah Powell: Indeed. Easy to say it. It can be but I think it's just being surrounded by the right people with the right mindset in the first place and you know and it's not that we're doing something every day that's different but just every day we're doing something that slightly moves that needle towards it because it is, it's exhausting to do everything all in one go and you just rush through it and it's not properly thought through. So it might take us a while to do things that some other people are doing in the industry, but I know that when we've done it, it's going to stick and it will be much easier in the future.
[00:19:24] Howard Bentham: Let's talk about recruitment, because you're obviously big supporters of the local community, from the garden, importing of local produce, the seasonal events programme that you have. How does that apply to recruitment strategy then? Where do you look for potential employees?
[00:19:40] Sarah Powell: Everywhere. I think everyone's got to be a bit more open now. I think before it was very much the CV dictated or the experience dictated, but I think coming back, we're seeing a lot, a different market coming back into it. We're seeing...
[00:19:53] Howard Bentham: Do you target local?
[00:19:54] Sarah Powell: We do. I mean, we work with colleges, we work with the schools to really generate interest in hospitality as a career in general, because it's not always done at school level. It's not that you, go and all of a sudden there's a hospitality GCSE. It's not a career that's necessarily known about and with the bus route that we introduced, whilst it took me many months to get that bus route in place, it just opens up to the area, it opens up for our team, it opens up for the local villages, and so the local market is always good. I think, you know, the dreaded Brexit has completely changed how we work in terms of hospitality and the reason we had a lot of European workers in hospitality is because in Europe they have some great hotel schools and it is seen as a real career to have, whereas in the UK we're not quite there yet.
So I think experience does count, but I think now I've had to work with my managers since, especially since we reopened and looked at the quantity of CVs is there, but the quality of the experience, especially when you're talking five star to Michelin star. So we've had to really take it back to basics and bring people in with no experience, which is something that we've not been used to and so that's where the development has really changed in terms of on the job training and the skills that we need to provide and that's a different mindset to train somebody from zero compared to training somebody at 50 is very different and so it's been a real challenge, but I think we've done well.
I think when we came out of COVID, I was really conscious, a lot of people in a lot of industries that I spoke to were so focused on recruitment and it was absolutely crucial for businesses. But I, you know, I was very honest with my team and I said, we can't be that short sighted that recruitment is the key to everything. The key to everything is the team and so I was very honest with the team. I took it on a lot myself, but I said to the managers, you focus on the team we have, you look after that team we have, you give them everything that they need and I'll focus on the team we don't, and I'll bring in the new people, but you need to focus on the team we've got and it's really working because now, two years down the line, we've retained the team, we've developed the team, we've promoted the team, so we're not recruiting management level positions anymore because we've managed to spend the last two years looking after what we have and not everybody focusing on the team that you don't, because when you do that you lose the team that you've got.
[00:22:09] Howard Bentham: Just help us understand the balance between trying to keep it local, which I know is a really strong driver for you, but obviously you've got your Northern Europe and Africa hat to wear as well, and a stellar reputation that will attract people from all over, globally. How does that balance work?
[00:22:26] Sarah Powell: Everybody does want, I mean, we're lucky in that respect, everybody does want to work at Le Manoir. We have, we're probably the only place in the UK, and everyone hates me for saying it, but we have a waitlist of chefs. I haven't recruited a chef in over a year and Luke coming into the kitchen, we haven't lost a chef in a year, I've not recruited a chef in a year. So I have a waitlist of chefs coming in. So it is a very desirable place to work. But for me, hospitality is... it's about, and the beauty of it is, it's not about who you are, or your experience, or what you look like, or what you sound like, it's about what you do, it's about how you make people feel, and how you create those memories. Hospitality is creating memories for people when you work in it, and so if you can do that, it doesn't matter who you are. You could have worked in, I don't know, John Lewis all your life, and okay, there's transferable skills, or you could have worked in a dentist assistant all your life, but if you can come in and really put a smile on someone's face, and give them a memory to take away, that's what hospitality is and so, yes, people want to work with us, but we're also, we're in an opportunity where we can be a little bit more choosy in terms of the characters that we bring in. As I say, not necessarily the experience, but the characters and we've got some real characters that work at Le Manoir and then globally it's the same. I mean, globally it's slightly more challenging because of visas and border regulations, they're a lot stricter than, than we have in the UK, but it is just looking at and honing those local relationships, I think, because what is also quite nice is once you've honed those relationships, you can bring a real sense of pride to the area as well, and you start to grow the name more locally, but then also if you bring people from, let's say, the north of England and they come here, there's many people at Le Manoir that have been there for 15 years, they've settled here, they've got their family, so they would consider themselves local, but if you did a little poll, they weren't born locally, so it just depends what local means to you and what that looks like.
[00:24:14] Howard Bentham: Let's bring into the conversation OxLEP Skills Hub Manager, Sally Andreou. Sally, welcome to OxTalks. One line of OxLEP's work is to support the provision of apprenticeships in Oxfordshire. Your social contract programme has secured significant pledges, I think it's somewhere around one and a half million pounds from the county's larger businesses who are subject to the apprenticeship levy, which then supports apprenticeship creation in small businesses. Tell us a little bit more about that.
[00:24:42] Sally Andreou: We're really excited. We've actually unlocked 1.6 million pounds worth of apprenticeship levy. Our amazing apprentice advisors Leah and Nikki are working with our large businesses and actually businesses outside of Oxfordshire to help them pledge. unused apprenticeship levy. Otherwise, the levy would be returned to the Treasury and by doing so, we're helping encouraging them to actually invest in the skills infrastructure and create new apprenticeships and by unlocking the apprenticeship levy, we've actually managed to create about a hundred new apprenticeships across the county in various sectors, various levels and it's just a great way to how we're encouraging to really that growth of apprenticeships and giving people in Oxfordshire good sustainable jobs.
[00:25:26] Howard Bentham: That's fantastic. Tell us about the apprenticeships that you offer at Le Manoir.
[00:25:31] Sarah Powell: So we care for lots of different apprenticeships, but we have found that due to the expertise that we already have in the business, that a lot of the team that you would have put on apprenticeships probably in the past, especially in the likes of the chefs, maths and English is not sometimes a strong point, and so that is a real sticking point because it's something that is part of the apprenticeship that has to be done and so actually, we give them the opportunity, we give them the option, sorry, so do they want to do the apprenticeship? Do they want to start as a commie and then move on to the apprenticeship? Or do they want to just stay as a commie and be trained and move up the ranks that way and we found in the last two years that most people have decided to go down the commie route, but we make sure that they are trained to a very high level. We do have people on level five, level seven, so we tend to use our, funds more so for the higher level management, because I think then it really does cement their careers for moving forward, because the management skills are not something that you're born with and a lot of people think you've done it for a long time, so okay, we're going to, you'd be a great manager and then when they get there, we're not setting them up to succeed. So we're using it for more of the management levels.
[00:26:37] Howard Bentham: Do you need to, I mean outside of apprenticeships perhaps, but for employee engagement in training, do you need to incentivise it in any way?
[00:26:44] Sarah Powell: It's difficult because are you doing the training to get the incentive or are you doing the training to be developed? And so they're still training but it's what they then do with it. I think it's tricky. If we were to incentivise, okay, you can do this as you know, you can become your departmental trainer and for every training course you do, you'll get X and is that then. Are they training the right way? Are they doing it for the payment or are they really ensuring that the training lands and that there's changes of behavior from that? So, so some, you can. I'm always hesitant to incentivise things because I don't like it to become that ticking box and I've got the money, but I think certain things is an option.
[00:27:20] Howard Bentham: Sally, career development is key for those within the workplace, but what about career inspiration prior to entering the world of work? Tell us about OxLEP's work with the Careers Enterprise Company and the Teacher Encounters Programme. I think this is fascinating and how this is supporting positive career choices for young people.
[00:27:39] Sally Andreou: It's been an amazing project and actually we kind of spearheaded the project a year before and ran the pilot and then it got expanded through the Careers and Enterprise Company nationally. So it's really to, our teachers have got an amazing role, not only to teach our young people, but they have got the opportunity to help young people understand what careers their subject might lead to.
So it's actually helping businesses by bringing them into schools and actually getting teachers going into business to understand what are the career opportunities, what's the opportunities that their young people might be able to have in a career that they're teaching. So we've had companies like Tokamak, we've had Oxford Biomedica, the JR Hospital is working with our teachers and really bringing them into the workplace, giving them the opportunities to really understand the progression and then actually creating resources that teachers can use in the classroom. I think it's been inspirational, it's actually having a massive impact because I think teachers are therefore really able to understand, practically and tell their young people when they come to them and talk about what their next best next step might be, they're talking with knowledge and they're talking with the opportunity actually seeing that workplace and I think that's what's really important and I think that's what we've been really excited about with this project.
[00:28:58] Howard Bentham: Finding new employees is one thing and inspiring the next generation, if you like, but retaining them is another. Sarah, how has your approach impacted employee retention at Le Manoir?
[00:29:09] Sarah Powell: I think it's definitely helped. Again, it's not a one size fits all for retention across the teams because, for example, in our operational teams, we started last year and we're finishing this year, we're starting to move people to a four day working week. That doesn't work for everybody. But as an example, we sat down with all of the room attendants in housekeeping and we said, would you like to go to a four day week? This is what it would look like, this is the benefits, this would be the differences. All of them said no. All of them said they didn't want to do that because they didn't want the 10 hour days, they just wanted the 8 hour days because housekeeping is a very physical job and so they haven't moved and they don't need to move, whereas other departments have and for the non-operational teams, so the HR, finance, sales, it's not possible for us to move to a four day week at this point in time because if you think about it in the kitchen, if a commis chef is off for three days, there's another commis chef to do that job, there's nobody else to do my job, there's nobody else to do the sales job, but we offer other things. So the hybrid work in the compressed hours. So I think it's having a range of options, it's having a range of things that would keep people engaged and retain them. It's looking at if people do leave, why are they leaving? I mean, we're quite lucky, we have a few people leave, but then some of those come back because the grass isn't always greener. So I think it's just really showcasing what we do. It's not just what we offer, but who we are as well. I think a lot of people are proud to work where they are. I think Raymond is still very heavily involved. We get them involved in a lot of things. We showcase what we do, we showcase who we are and we also keep talking about how good it is to work there. You know, it's a real, everyone who comes to Le Manoir talks about the family feel, the community, everybody helps each other, and you don't always get that elsewhere and so I think it is having a broad range of options that everybody can tap into, but not being afraid to shout about those successes because sometimes we do things, but we don't always tell everybody about it and everybody wants a different thing. When I go to the careers fairs now, the students are asking, what do we do with sustainability? All of these wouldn't have been asked in the past and so it's everybody's looking for a different thing and the values have to match for a lot of the time, that when I was younger I didn't know what values were so I didn't know if it matched me or not but now it's a real thing that we have to work on in terms of what are my personal values? What are the team's values? What are the company's values? And that's where we can see how they match.
[00:31:30] Howard Bentham: Sally, perhaps you can share some examples about encouraging employee engagement in training, also picking up on the retention points that Sarah's making?
[00:31:38] Sally Andreou: Yeah, I think it's so important. I mean, Oxford's just a really tight labour market. I think what La Manoir has really taken on board is actually how to be a flexible workplace in the fact that it's a tight labour market, low unemployment, and actually businesses when they come into Oxford don't necessarily understand that actually it's a very competitive market.
They have to be looking at how do they recruit, what's the way that they're recruiting, and actually how to retain talent. One of the ways that we really support, and obviously Le Manoir has tried that, is looking around apprenticeships because actually it does help businesses to grow their own talent and I think that's what Le Manoir is showing and actually retaining that talent because we know a lot of graduates, they're fantastic, but they do leave after quite a short time. But having an apprentice actually can help that, not only with you for the duration of the training, so it could be up to two years, if not longer, depending on the course, but it's actually what they can be doing and actually retaining that talent post apprenticeship and how they're supported by the business and they stay longer within that business to actually keep working and then there's progressions as different levels, level three, going up to level four and upwards to degree level, depending on what the business can offer and I think it's, what's really important is that retention and also what we can do to help. So, for example, we're looking at depending on funding, we're hoping that we can offer some skills boot camps for those people at 19 plus they're free, flexible courses, and some of them might be in hospitality and really help people to reskill in new areas that we know that there are skill shortages, within Oxfordshire. They're all based on the local skills improvement plan that's been released this month and it's actually just being helping people to have the opportunity to do free flexible courses to upskill and reskill.
[00:33:31] Howard Bentham: That's fantastic, that that level of support is there. Just intrigued, Sarah, what's in your view an acceptable level of turnover of staff in a place of work and what percentage would lead you to go, maybe we've got a problem here?
[00:33:45] Sarah Powell: I know in general, I would say on average, it's kind of 15, 20%, I think. Hospitality is renowned, I've worked in businesses where it's been 70, 80%, so it's high. I think at Le Manoir, I'm touching, when I first started, it was around 40, it's now we've reduced it down to around 30. It's, you're going to have natural turnover because I think as I said, a lot of the time it's not seen as a career and so we employ a lot of students who will go once their degree is finished, who will go into the career path that they're wanting and as I said, it's interesting to see those that go and then, come back. So it depends, it really depends on the industry. I think if you're a family company that employed five people, you know, 20 percent is quite high for you because you've lost a fifth of your workforce, but it's definitely a figure worth monitoring, but it's more so rather than just a figure, it's the feedback as to why they're going in the first place because some people are so focused on that figure rather than the feedback that you're given surrounding it.
[00:34:43] Howard Bentham: Is it all about the money though? You do appear to pay high wages at Le Manoir. I saw on your website jobs advertised for a bartender on 30k plus tips. Nice work if you can get it. A waiter on the same money and a kitchen porter on 27, 000 a year. I mean, you have a happy workforce but maybe they're earning a lot more, than other businesses, certainly in hospitality, who can't pay anything matching those wages.
[00:35:07] Sarah Powell: No, I mean, we are lucky because the tips do play a huge part at Le Manoir, a two Michelin star dinner with service charges that does provide some great benefits. But I don't think, personally, I don't think it's all about money. I've personally taken jobs that were a pay cut to go to because I believed in what the company was doing.
I think the additional benefits that you get around how you're treated as a person. So I think sometimes the money is the pull to make you apply, definitely. But it's once you get them through the door, what are you selling them? And there's, quite a lot of people that are sold a dream that just doesn't materialise and that's why they soon come back because we're very honest in terms of the expectations and what we offer them and what we do. But I don't think If you ask anybody, of course, you could walk around every single employee at Le Manoir and say, Would you like to be paid more? Of course they would say yes. But that isn't indicative that they're not paid for what they do, and also that's the only thing that keeps them there. So I don't think money is the be all and end all for anybody.
[00:36:07] Howard Bentham: Sarah and Sally, thank you both for the moment. We'll chat again shortly. It's good to have you along for OxTalks, the podcast powered by the Oxfordshire Local Enterprise Partnership and sponsored by leading national law firm Mills & Reeve. If you want to get in touch with the team at OxLEP to comment on what you've been hearing, You can find us on social media. We're on X @OxfordshireLEP or via LinkedIn, search for Oxfordshire Local Enterprise Partnership. Perhaps you run a company or organisation that's looking for some specific help or simply need a steer to the most appropriate business advice available. Why not try the OxLEP Business Support Tool.
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[00:37:55] Howard Bentham: Let's chat more to Sarah Powell from Belmont Le Manoir, based near Great Milton in Oxfordshire. Sarah, young people very much a focus of attention. Obviously, you want to try and get the young people in, and get them on their career path. We talked about apprenticeships, but let's talk about foundation qualifications, internships, work experience. What are you offering where you are there?
[00:38:20] Sarah Powell: We like to offer a lot, if we can. So, maybe two years ago we invited all of the careers leads of the schools to come and spend the morning at Le Manoir, just to understand what it is we do, who we are, we got them to talk to a range of people, some people that have been there for 20 years, some that started as an apprentice, and just their journey so they could really understand what we do do. I think last year we had over 500 days of work experience that we offered.
[00:38:46] Howard Bentham: 500 days of work experience?
[00:38:48] Sarah Powell: 500 days of work experience. So we always, there's always somebody, there's always somebody at Le Manoir coming in. We also spoke to the schools and we're very honest that the schools at that time seem to pick the same week for work experience and we couldn't take them all. So I said, you know, maybe a conversation and who takes what week and how we then brought them into the kitchen. We had, you know, just as an example, we currently have a senior Chef de Partie in the kitchen. He came when he was about 12 years old as a visit and he just fell in love with what we did and he became an apprentice and then now he's our senior chef to party five years later. So he's had an amazing journey with us and work experience really does give the extra experience that they're missing at school because I could easily go and talk to the school and say what it was like to work in our kitchens. What does that mean? But until you come in and you feel it and you get drawn in to the energy of the restaurant or the energy of the kitchens or the energy of the gardens even, they really start to think this could be a place for me.
We work with all of the Special educational needs scores as well, because we can offer certain placements for them to come in at different times of the year. We worked with one school who the student was not, he came to us one day a week instead of going to school because actually he got more to come and work with our team than it was academically and we had kind of special dispensation from the school to do that for him one day a week. So it's definitely an option. I think currently today we're again close to 500 days again this year, and it's, we always have three people in the kitchen, they go around, they do different things. The chefs are so used to it now, they take anybody under their wings and show them what to do, the gardens know what they do. So it's something that we're really passionate to do because I think, as I say, until you come in and you feel it and you experience it and you understand what we do, it's very hard for you to then picture that as your career if you've never been exposed to it. So whether it's work experience, whether it's placements, whether it's colleges or schools coming to visit us for the day and having a tour and meeting Raymond, there's lots that we do and that's what we're wanting to continue into next year as well.
[00:40:46] Howard Bentham: There is a magic, isn't there, that happens, that inspiration that comes. You recently won Inspiring the Future Employer of the Year. That was an award at the Oxfordshire Apprenticeship Awards this year, run by OxLEP. That must have been a very proud moment for you.
[00:41:01] Sarah Powell: Definitely, I think it means more when it's a local award to be recognised for what we do locally and we always do try and focus on local and how we can make a difference. I think it's, a lot of companies come in, it's just the place, but for us I think Raymond chose Great Milton nearly 40 years ago and he's very proud to be in the village and we do support that and so anything that we can do locally is something that we always champion and to be able to be recognised for that and it also helps us to showcase what we do do and to spread the message, not just about Le Manoir, but hospitality in general as a great career, so yes, it was a great award to be given.
[00:41:36] Howard Bentham: And Sally, I know you're particularly proud of the OxLEP Apprenticeship Awards. It's obviously crucial that OxLEP keeps this going, the difference it's making.
[00:41:44] Sally Andreou: Absolutely, and it's just inspirational. I mean, it's just brilliant listening to Sarah because as a business, as an org, you know, company, but the work that they're doing, we just really want more businesses to be able to showcase, showcase what you're doing via the awards we can help you,
the awards is something we run on a non for profit basis and actually we have all of the businesses sponsoring it. So each business sponsors a category, they judge the category and they award the category. We just manage the awards, which we're delighted to do and this is, I think our eighth year now, and it's just an opportunity for businesses to spotlight their activity, but also to spotlight the young people and not necessarily just young people that are now apprentices. They're actually of lots of different ages and the success that these apprentices can have and some of the challenges, how they work through some of the challenges. But what's really exciting, I think Le Manoir have taken on, something that we're really passionate about in OxLEP right now, is actually how we can support our special educational needs schools. How we can actually encourage those young people who have got special needs to actually feel as though they can, there's a job for them there.
Like I said, Oxfordshire is a really tight labour market. We need to be ensuring that everybody's got the opportunity to be economically active and that includes those people that are long term unemployed, those people that are challenged. So we're doing a great project right now in food larders, trying to get people, giving them free digital devices, giving them travel bursaries to get to their first job, giving them support in food larders, employability and skills support, where actually when they come along gets their food, but actually we can have a chat with them through our triage workers about what's the opportunity, how do we can get them into work? And we've engaged through that program over 450 people across 19 locations. It's helping all of those, not only just our young people, it's our over 50s through our boot camps. What can we do to support? And I think Le Manoir have taken this and really embraced it and it's just a wonderful example and I think it's just fantastic they're here in Oxford to talk about it.
[00:43:48] Howard Bentham: The thing that's really struck me from what Sarah's been saying, Sally, is that, is the conversations are internally, they're talking to the workforce, but to get nearly five hundred work experience people, that's of conversations with a lot of schools and then obviously then with the families involved, that's again, something OxLEP can help with that brokering of a conversation for companies listening that think, well, actually, yeah, we could do with that sort of level, but how do we make that happen?
[00:44:15] Sally Andreou: We've got a whole team. I mean, we've got a whole team who are crying out for businesses to come and get involved. Whatever that means, whether it's just an hour and you want to come along and help with a CV writing or an interview skills, or whether it's a bit more long term and actually you'd like to have a work experience or actually to be able to support strategically a school with their careers advice and guidance, there's a breadth of opportunities.
I think also it's, we're fully funded. We're not asking any money. It's all the opportunities are there for a business to get involved and come and have a chat and there is no, you know, businesses can take it up or whether they could just, but we've got that flexibility and I think what we want to do is to ensure that, A, businesses get the recruitment, get the staffing, get what they need, but also the local communities, those people who are looking for work, looking for training, also get those. In jobs that we know that are in sectors that have got skill shortages, and that's quite significant, those in Oxfordshire right now, and we really want to be trying to close that gap and to be that bridge between all those different organisations, the employers, the community groups, the schools, and actually bring all of that together and that's what OxLEP skills and role is moving forward, is how we can bring all of them together to have these amazing outcomes that we're seeing.
Work experience, we're doing a project right now, so we're actually trying to get work experience offered for those young people that don't have the possible connections . So those young people that are on pupil premium or on free school meals, for example, is how can we can support them so they might have an opportunity to get a workplace experience, really vital.
[00:45:57] Howard Bentham: Just on a personal note, Sarah, I see that you do a fair bit of volunteering and you act as a mentor to support young people. Why do you do that? Why are you so passionate about it?
[00:46:08] Sarah Powell: I think it's because when I first started out, I wish I had one. I think it took me a long time to made all the mistakes without having anybody there to talk to about it because it's not, you know, yes you can talk to your boss, but it's not the same because you want to openly be able to admit, oh, I made a mistake or I didn't quite know what I was doing or is this the right thing for me? And so it's been something that I've done, whether it's been through hospitality, whether it's been young people going into careers, whether it's been HR related with Birmingham City University. So it just depends, but it all stemmed from if I'd have had one, I would have used them, and I would have asked a lot more questions, and I would have not potentially got where I was quicker, but I think I would have had less bumps along the way, which every time you have one of those, it just knocks your confidence slightly, and it takes a little bit longer to build it back up.
So it's interesting to do, I think some people would benefit from it that don't know about it, I think those that do know about it or are given the option to, even if it's just an hour to speak to me, or if it's just looking at their CV, or anything like that, it's you know, an hour of your time, whilst it's precious, it's not impossible to give.
[00:47:17] Sally Andreou: I think that's something that's really important. We've got our new virtual mentoring platform, which is helping people that again, I think you probably might find is that you're very strategic about how you did your, kind of your career and just went, okay, this is what I could see, there's gaps. But we have a lot of people that don't even know how to really write a good CV and actually that will bar them from even getting a job.
So we've got the virtual mentoring platform that we've got, actually we've got kind of about 12 to 16 experts that are really passionate about trying to help people navigate all of that. So like HR experts on this platform that people can actually sort of say, I need some help with my CV or I need some help with interview skills and they can really do that bit of support and also on there is actually, modules where people can understand about Oxfordshire.
They can also look at resilience. Resilience is really difficult for people if you're looking for a job because you have to put in so many applications to get even one response to say thank you, but no thank you. So it's, really looking at that and people, it's free, again people can use it as long as they like. I think it's just really, we're trying to give that opportunity for people to get, to gain that local knowledge, that local understanding of the Oxfordshire labour market, which is different to other areas, because actually it's so, it has to, you know, Oxfordshire has such low unemployment.
[00:48:40] Howard Bentham: Let's pick up on a couple of points raised on our social channels. Sally Andreou from OxLEP Skills Hub. Your thoughts on how important is it for businesses to create opportunities for local people? I know that OxLEP worked closely with a number of employers and it's something called a Community Employment Plan that you run. Give us the details on that.
[00:49:01] Sally Andreou: Yeah, I mean, I think everybody's seen across Oxfordshire, it's like a huge building site right now, and probably we all got stuck in traffic jams, but actually with large infrastructure projects, and we've got about 19 running across the county, and that's probably why our roads are kind of so busy. But actually what we're doing is working with those large infrastructure projects too and our local authorities, planning departments, is to try and ensure that those local people have the opportunities for jobs.
They're massive, whether they're building houses or building business acreage. There's jobs and there's jobs being created. How do we get local people into those jobs? So we sit and work with our large infrastructure projects, those builders to sit down and create a kind of what we call a community employment plan, or a CEP as we call it, to then really look at what could be delivered, what apprenticeships could be created.
So if we think about the Westgate, that was one of our CEPs. How many people, young people could be. brought through to have a kind of workplace visit. We know there's a massive construction shortage. How do we try and get more people to understand the different roles in construction so we could do site visits, we can get some of the business to come talk to local schools to actually really understand that and actually how do we give people local jobs? So that's something that we sit down and we work with, because these infrastructure projects are, can be years in the process and the actual delivery. But how do we work with them and try and keep them on meeting those promises to achieve those. So it's really helping them actually visualise and sometimes bring the connections between the schools and colleges, but also with all the different other departments in trying to ensure those infrastructure projects benefit everybody.
[00:50:49] Howard Bentham: And from your point of view, Sarah, how do external organisations like OxLEP support your local recruitment strategy?
[00:50:57] Sarah Powell: I think very simply, when we did the Careers Day, for example, rather than going to all of the schools individually, we approached OxLEP and we said, you know, you've got all the contacts, could we work with you to create something and, to bring something and we did two different days, we did general careers and then we did the SEN schools, and they also came as well.
So I think just having OxLEP or anybody like that as a one point of call that can then actually have more of an impact than me trying to contact every single school and find out who I'm supposed to speak to at what time and it just brings. it together, but it also helps to move things through faster and also they're experts in what they do. We're experts in what we do. So actually coming together and sharing ideas and looking at what we do and not just for that, they, you know, they might know a business that are also doing the same things. I think when we look at the awards, it was great to see what everybody else was doing because then it also helps to showcase best practice and to share ideas and to see that didn't work and why and from the awards I had some conversations with some other people in different categories just to see what they were doing. So I think it's a really useful, almost a platform that we can use and a voice that we can start to share.
[00:52:08] Howard Bentham: We've talked a lot about young people, Sally, but what about, let's flip the timeline here, for the opportunities and the help available for those in the twilight of their working life? I know OxLEP is keen to progress that too.
[00:52:21] Sally Andreou: Absolutely, and we have got an aging workforce here in Oxfordshire and going back to, you know, looking at the opportunity of skills bootcamps, we're hoping, depending on funding by government, but we're hoping to deliver up to 10 skills bootcamps next year from spring, which are for 19 plus. There's going to be offering flexible courses up to 16 weeks in sectors like green skills, green e-bikes, green e-construction, digital marketing, hospitality, a whole variety and people can just literally self refer themselves on these courses and then at the end of it they will be given an interview by an employer. So it's actually hopefully then giving them the opportunity to, if they want to re-skill from an old job, they want to do something and give them the opportunity to learn that and then progress. So that's what we're looking to do. It's really important we keep more people in their fifties economically active because actually then they're feeling as though they're taking part in community, they're using the health service less. It's really, we're very focused on that, so we're excited by it and we're looking, like I say, to deliver that from, hopefully, spring next year to March '25.
[00:53:38] Howard Bentham: And Sarah, what about Le Manoir in that particular area? People in their 50s, even older, coming to you and saying, I'm looking to pivot and change my career, I'm really interested in being your bartender on 30k a year, plus the tips.
[00:53:51] Sarah Powell: We do have a lot of people, coming in to change careers. I think there's a lot of transferable skills that will come into hospitality. I think the reality of working weekends and evenings sometimes hasn't sunk in at that initial point. So I think we have to do a lot of work on what that looks like.
But I, to me, as I said, It's not about the age or anything in hospitality. It's what you can bring and the smiles that you can make and so actually we have, we're looking at Le Manoir. I think if we added up all of the long service, I'd dread to think how many years is there. We've got people who've been there all 40 years and we've got people who started last month and so it's, a real mix of service. It's a real mix of ages, but I think it really adds to the culture of Le Manoir and I think a lot of people learn off each other and so definitely I would, encourage people that if, you know, it's never too late to make a career move. It's just, I'd maybe accompany it with a cover letter as to why, because if I suddenly had, I've worked in Barclays Bank for 40 years and now I want to be your gardener, you could be the best gardener ever, but unless you tell me why, it's a little bit difficult to get your foot through the door. So I always encourage people that if your CV is not quite enough to get you through the door, then just to make that little bit of extra time and add that cover letter to let me know why and we've had a lot of people change careers and they're some of the best that we've got because they actually came into it because they loved it and they wanted to see what they could do with it and now they're shining, so...
[00:55:10] Howard Bentham: Let's bring our conversation to a close, a couple of final questions. How do you envisage the labour market changing in the near future?
[00:55:17] Sarah Powell: I think, and this is my, in my personal opinion, I've no actual experience to base it on, but with the minimum wage jumping so high next year, it's going to have a huge impact and whilst I understand it's been done for the economy, many businesses unfortunately potentially won't survive that because, you know, to increase it more than a pound It is huge for businesses and I think whenever that's happened and when we've had a huge shift in minimum wage, the market has changed. We've had, we've seen it now, great people are not leaving jobs at the minute because the security they get, you know, they don't want to go back on probation, they want that security. But as soon as the market shifts and it becomes quite challenging for companies to continue to employ people, that's when again the market shifts back to the employer lead recruitment market. So we potentially might see that next year. We'll see a lot of companies batten down the hatches almost because of the minimum wage change and the cost of living. So it's another shift next year and it's always interesting that there's always that fine line and obviously I'm not a politician. I don't know the ins and outs, but on the one hand is that you can understand the shift, you can understand the jump, but the implications can never be forecasted and so I think it's, it'll be interesting to see next year the challenge that brings.
[00:56:33] Howard Bentham: We've covered a lot of ground today, we've talked about tailored training, career development, apprenticeships, all the various things you offer at Le Manoir, the support to employees, the aim for obviously employee retention, try and sum up what people should take away from our conversation, the lessons that could be learned maybe then that they could put into practice in their own workplaces.
[00:56:54] Sarah Powell: Well, I think you should just all work in hospitality is the kind of key that the first thing, you'll have a great time when you get to travel a lot. So no, just, come and join us, everyone's happy then and everybody, everyone always wants to go for dinner or to have some drinks, so we're always going to be needed, we'll never be short.
But I think just really look at your career and where do you want it to go and put those steps in place. A lot of people that I meet, they're a little bit disillusioned in their career because they expect things to just come their way and nothing's ever landed on your doorstep. So it's taking a bit of responsibility for your career, taking a bit of accountability, but then speaking to the right people who can help you with that and if you do want to make that transition, then come into Le Manoir and ask for a week of work experience, because actually to just come in, even if you're in your 40s, 50s, 60s, to come in and experience it, you then get to know, because it's a big commitment to leave your job to then come into another one and think, Oh, it's, I've made a wrong move here.
So go and get some experience and, look at the different places around, you know, especially in hospitality, it's such a big business and you can have the likes of Le Manoir all the way down to school catering, contract catering, care home catering. They're so different and so just because you're in the industry and potentially it's not the right sector for you, don't give up the job, find a different place to go to. And then use the mentoring programs, use the likes of OxLEP for the boot camps and all the things that are there, as you say it's free, so just go and try it and it's just, even if it's not for hospitality, it'll give you some great skills that you don't realize you need until you're actually doing the job itself.
[00:58:28] Howard Bentham: Sarah and Sally, thank you both. Huge thanks to Sarah Powell from Belmond Le Mamoir, and a big thank you also to Sally Andreau from OxLEP too, and thank you for listening to OxTalks, sponsored by leading national law firm Mills & Reeve. There are now a number of editions of OxTalks available from where you normally get your podcasts. Check out some of my previous conversations, including with the CEO at Bicester Motion and Bicester Heritage, Dan Geoghegan on what makes a great leader, Fiona Reid, Associate Professor for Bioscience Entrepreneurship at UCL on how to start a business and Paul Wilkinson, award winning Oxfordshire based photographer. All well worth a listen.
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Remember, business support in Oxfordshire is just an email or a phone call away. The OxLEP Business Support Tool can signpost you to expert help in a matter of minutes. It's definitely worth taking a look. Find it on our website OxfordshireLEP.com. But for now, from the whole OxLEP team and from me, howard Bentham, it's goodbye.