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In this episode, we discuss the transition process from the military to employment as a professional LGV Driver, what attracts service leavers to the transport industry, what employers can do to attract more to follow this career path and what more can be done to help individuals through the process.
Welcome to Driven By Excellence, your trusted place for all things logistics and road safety from PDT Fleet Training. Each month, join host Hattie Hlad as she interviews experts on a wide range of topics within the logistics field.
Hattie Hlad 0:03
Driven by Excellence, your trusted place for all things logistics and road safety. In this episode, we are going to be talking about the employment of military personnel within the commercial logistics sector. I'm very fortunate to be joined in the studio today by three very special guests Pertemps driver division director John Poliquin, Pertemps military liaison officer, major Darren Knight, and army reservists Sergeant Lee Northam. We'll be discussing their experiences and provide you with an insight into what the transition from military looks like and how employers can benefit from working with the armed forces. So buckle up and enjoy the episode. Thank you, everyone, for being here today. Let's start off by just introducing ourselves. John, if you want to give a bit of your background, and we're here today,
John Poliquin 1:05
Yeah, John Poliquin, Director for Pertemps and PDT. Today, just to tell people how wonderful people are within logistics, but also people who leave the armed forces, and what a fantastic bunch of people they can be in such an asset to businesses. So that's really what I'm here to talk about.
Hattie Hlad 1:30
Right. And Darren?
Darren Knight 1:32
Yep, my name is Darren Knight, I work as the Armed Forces manager for Pertemps. I'm also a Major in the reserves, an ex-regular soldier of 22 years as well, and I was predominately brought into the business to assist and help individuals leave the forces and join logistics, particularly as drivers.
Lee Northam 1:52
I'm Lee Northam, currently a driver for Pertemps LGV. Left the Army in 2014, doing a fabulous service and now currently in the reserves for the last seven years.
Hattie Hlad 2:04
And now we're here...
Lee Northam 2:06
Now here.
Hattie Hlad 2:06
...and now we're here to do the podcast. Okay, so, basically to you two, Darren and JP, what do you think, is the benefits of having ex-military employees?
John Poliquin 2:18
For me, it's their attitude, and their willingness to learn, we have to understand that their previous lives have been difficult to mainstream and completely different. They are given orders and instructed, that aside, they are just a great bunch of people to be around. They have great thought process, teamwork, especially. So for me, they're an invaluable source of labour. And I think a source that many people overlook, which we need to address.
Hattie Hlad 3:00
And what about you, Darren, what do you think the benefits are?
Darren Knight 3:03
Yeah, just to add to John's point there picked up on leadership, because in civilian street, companies don't invest in leadership. So what you get from a military person is that leadership, and it goes a bit further than that because you've got the coaching and mentoring skills that come on. But as a driver and logistics, I think the most important thing is those transitional skills where, you know, the will-do attitude, and the reliability, working well to change and the resilience part of things is where they value enormously from recruiting people from the military,
Hattie Hlad 3:36
Do you think the core values for ex-military is a real reason why you'd want to employ?
Darren Knight 3:41
I mean, the military values and standards are second to none. And so so what you do get from that person is those values and standards for straight costs for the military, because the military person doesn't know anything else. It's been embedded into them and then that comes with loyalty, and you'll find anyone leaving the military to join any company, they'll be loyal to, you know, to the end to everyone in that in that company. And, they're so much been used to work as a team. So that's what they're looking for when they leave the military.
Hattie Hlad 4:10
Yeah. In terms of core values for yourself, Lee, what do you think you bring to the driver sector now?
Lee Northam 4:18
I would say I give integrity and loyalty and self-discipline, I think as well, because working for companies in and around Lincolnshire, what I do now currently, it's a big thing to have that, being honest with the employer, if things go wrong with the vehicle you tell the employer straight away...
Hattie Hlad 4:40
Yeah.
Lee Northam 4:41
...don't try to hide it.
Hattie Hlad 4:41
What do you think appeals to people leaving the forces to become a professional driver?
Darren Knight 4:46
Well, if I go first, I think in the military, we're doing things differently every day. So you know, I'm not going to pick out one particular industry, but I think driving you are doing something different everyday, you're going to different place every day, you're working on your own, you're working as a team. So that's very much, you know, what they're looking for when they're leaving the military, to have that ability to work on their own as much as working as a team as well.
Hattie Hlad 5:13
What do you think, John?
John Poliquin 5:14
I think we need to give more thought, employers, that I think need to give more thought and Darren touched on leadership earlier. We take for granted that in civilian life, we just do what we do because we know what we're doing. But I think more time needs to be given, I don't use the word handhold, but support, and encourage that those people that have been very insular for perhaps a long period of time, especially in these case, and Darren's case. So to guide them and help them through that transition, I think would give them more pride and encouragement to do their job. But also, that then gives the employer more loyalty and trust, if you give, they'll give back, it just that we need to give the time. And that's the thing in a pressured industry, just a bit of time to talk to and engage with, and that's the important thing for me is how we engage with them.
Hattie Hlad 6:16
And what do you think Lee? So what appeals... well, what appealed to yourself from leaving the forces to them become a professional driver?
Lee Northam 6:25
I think it's, it's being a team, being also by yourself, so you're in charge of yourself a in a fashion. Have that responsibility of working for companies, and just put them back to the civilian world, what we've already learned in the army in military.
Hattie Hlad 6:49
Nice. What is the demographic of people who are choosing to leave the forces and then become an LGV driver?
Darren Knight 6:57
It's so wide and diverse. You could be dealing with somebody, you know, that's only done days in the military, but a military charity, they will still class that person as a veteran. So you've got from that extreme to somebody who's done over 30 years in the military and some people like myself, who join the army at 16 have got no experience of civilian street whatsoever. So when they do leave in their 40s, it is a completely alien world. So you get the full breadth of people from different locations throughout the UK and so there's not one, you know, so it's not one, particularly that you can put your finger on really?
Hattie Hlad 7:42
Yeah, following on from that, because you've said it's an alien world, going into normal civilian life. What, as an employer now, John, do you think you can do to better equip yourself when working with military-trained individuals?
John Poliquin 7:56
I think it goes back to time...
Hattie Hlad 7:58
Right.
John Poliquin 7:59
It's just being able to give the time to engage and explain fully, some things that we might take for granted. Just the little things, just to give those boys and girls that come out, the confidence to do the job, well, it doesn't cost us anything. It's just being human and spending a bit of time and every industry is busy. But logistics is equally so much more pressure, because it's just in time, it's now, now, now. But if we can just take a step back, give a little, we will get so much more back from these boys and girls.
Hattie Hlad 8:38
Yeah, and what do you think Lee?
Lee Northam 8:39
I would say that the companies I work for currently are asking me questions about the Army and my experiences of being in the Army. That's massive to me to try and put across my perception of what we do in the military. So there's some companies who don't understand a veteran of what you're studying is on the surface, all they see is on the TV or the radio. So to get feedback from a driver currently, is fantastic.
Hattie Hlad 9:05
Do you think you've had enough support with your transition?
Lee Northam 9:10
Definitely, yes. I think the way I've come into this industry, I've been approached by companies and especially Pertemps to be really onside, really helpful and beneficial for me.
Hattie Hlad 9:23
What's the sort of difference from training someone who's had a non-military background?
Darren Knight 9:28
So somebody that's been in the military, one of the major difference between a military driver and a civilian driver is the legislation type of the pace, you know, so somebody in civilian street they'll understand about the Working Time Directive drivers hours everything else like that, even though the military abide by the spirit of legislation or do adopt those rules, using Digi cards. You know, understanding the Working Time Directive in detail is not known for about the military. So that gives you a perfect example. have a big difference.
Hattie Hlad 10:01
Do you think if any, there are any negative public perceptions of leaving the service to then become a commercial driver?
Darren Knight 10:10
I think on the whole, as John's alluded to already, the public have got a positive relationship with military in the know what they're getting. I do say that, you know, with previous conflicts in the past, PTSD does come into it, though people suffer from PTSD is such a low percentage than what is talked about, and people and what Lee spoke about earlier as well, people don't understand what people do in the military. So, you know, when someone's leaving the army, they think everyone's an infantry soldier, there's been frontline in Afghanistan, and everyone's experienced the same thing and that can't be further from the truth, because we've got so many different roles, and so many different experiences. So it's understanding that background, and don't you know, don't tie everyone with the same set, same brush.
Hattie Hlad 10:59
Don't jump to conclusions on that. I mean, I don't know everything in the military personally. So that is my initial perception and thought is, everyone's in the frontline like you've said, So John, what are your thoughts on that? What do you think the public perception is?
John Poliquin 11:15
I suppose it's very difficult. Some people don't like to talk about what's happened in their past, because I would imagine some very unpleasant things. But as long as we don't lose sight of what these people do and did for us, and what they're there to do, just to get engaged with them, talk to them.
Hattie Hlad 11:36
Yeah.
John Poliquin 11:37
And I think that... and I'll keep talking about is the most important thing is to engage. Show them you human, although you're civilian, and actually life's alright, just go and talk to them.
Hattie Hlad 11:49
With you, Lee, what do you think was your biggest challenge within your transition?
Lee Northam 11:54
Leaving that secure job industry, the money was always beneficial for being in the military, to then joining a company where it's hard, by itself to be in a lorry for 12 hours a day. So you're probably lonely because there has been a military, a lot of teamwork and lots of bonding with men in a vehicle, you're always by yourself and that was quite hard to adapt on the first initial part.
Hattie Hlad 12:25
How long did it take you to adapt do you think?
Lee Northam 12:27
Probably two months, three months, to get used to the routine. I think, in the military, it's all about routine and that was a difference of being a new career, a new life in civilian street.
Hattie Hlad 12:41
So how did you adapt to essentially working on your own?
Lee Northam 12:45
By speaking to employers, experienced drivers who's been in that job for many years, asking them questions, and how to get the best out of me, and also for the company and that's my main goal really.
Hattie Hlad 13:00
So John, what kind of support are you offering the employees as part of your partnership with the military?
John Poliquin 13:06
Well, we set up the Pertemps Academy purely on the back of giving service leavers that support they need. So any service leaver can come to us who has a will to be in logistics, and we will coach them through the change from military to civilian driving. We have our own fleet of vehicles, our own coaches that will work with those individuals, to get them across the line so that they've got the confidence they need, whether that be an hour or a week, it matters not. Those people have to leave us knowing in their stomach, they've got the confidence and will to do the job safely. That's what we do for them.
Hattie Hlad 13:50
What would you say about that Darren?
Darren Knight 13:51
Yes, so to add a bit of detail to that, one is that in the military, you ask any service person to drive and operate a vehicle, they have to do a course in it, or they have to go through what's called familiarisation training. So what we've done at Pertemps, is to set up a particular course, to suit that license category. And we've called it commercial vehicle familiarisation training for those individuals that haven't touched an LGV vehicle since passing their test, they're going to leave the service with a license, but not have the confidence to jump in and drive that vehicle. So what we do at Pertemps is provide that necessary experience. We call it familiarisation training, which is language they understand from the military, it's provided free, and we will coach and mentor them through until they are happy and confident and so the most important thing is they've got the confidence in themselves to drive those vehicles. Or more importantly, our clients have then got confidence in those individuals that are getting because not only are they getting all the transitional skills from the military, as we discussed earlier, they're now getting a safe and competent driver.
Also working for Pertemps, there's always reassurance, there's always a phone number you can ring to get advice from a manager, or employee for from Pertemps to give this bit of advice and help.
Hattie Hlad 15:12
What do you think we can do to make it a bit more attractive, potentially for highly skilled and qualified people to become an LGV driver?
John Poliquin 15:20
In respect of their skills that they've utilized, or going from the forces to transition those, or to change careers completely?
Hattie Hlad 15:29
Well, let's say skills, their skill set to transition those to become an LGV driver?
John Poliquin 15:34
We need to again talk to the individuals and actually find out what they want to do. I don't want to push anybody into something or a role that they don't want to be. A lot of the people that I've met, service leavers at different events, I just spend time talking to just to calm them down a bit and realise that the world really is their oyster. There are so many opportunities out there, if we can open the lid on the box for them, even if it doesn't benefit us, I would rather give that individual that opportunity. So they can be in the right place, rather than trying to push people down an avenue that perhaps isn't really suited to them. So we need to ensure that what we do at the front end is right and again, that comes down to communicating understanding what the individual wants to do.
Hattie Hlad 16:28
Would you say the same, Darren?
Darren Knight 16:29
Yeah, definitely just to give you a perfect example, when I joined the army, I joined the Royal Corps Transport, which is now a Royal Logistic Corps, and I was lucky enough to get my LGV license at the age of 17. But those people that was getting those licenses then were the ones that was in particular driver traits. 20-30 years later, most people in the military have got licenses because of, even the Landrover platforms, because of the weight of these vehicles, we're having to give infantry soldiers those truck licenses. So as John's alluded to, there is what you're getting from somebody leaving the military is that don't just take their license for granted, you need to find out exactly what they did in the military, because most of the people that we deal with the last time they drove an LGV license was on the day of their test and they've been driving Landrovers in the desert, for instance, since. So to, you know, to carry on what John was saying, we need to understand that then coach and mentor them through that. Because if we can give those people that time and invest in those people, what we get in return will be absolutely fantastic.
Hattie Hlad 17:33
Yeah. What do you think initially attracted you to become an LGV driver?
Lee Northam 17:39
I think it's the opportunity to travel, valuable country and meet new people, getting more skills in that industry, and also just driving around and getting to enjoy myself really in that role and get paid for it. It's fantastic to do it.
Hattie Hlad 17:57
Darren, what would you tell our listeners that employers are potentially thinking about this route with working with the military?
Darren Knight 18:04
So as you've heard, as we've discussed the benefits of employing a service lever, there's some additional benefits as well. So as soon as you employ a veteran, a service lever, or somebody who's serving in the reserves, you can get kudos by signing the Armed Forces covenant, cementing that relationship between your company and the MOD and getting the kudos from that. And on the back of that, that the MOD have got an award scheme, called the employee recognition scheme for those companies that go above and beyond just to pledge to support the military. And by taking on a service lever veteran and reservists, you will get kudos from that. And it certainly adds its social value, and you're helping the community. And this kudos is free and good news spreads fast. So if you employ a veteran with any sort of military background, they'll tell their group and all of a sudden, you'll be a company that's known throughout the forces of community that the support the wider military community.
Hattie Hlad 19:15
And John, you've already done this. So what has been your experiences with Pertemps?
John Poliquin 19:19
Honestly? Fantastic. We were lucky enough to form the PEM project. We were invited to Buckingham Palace, park the vehicles up there on the courtyard, which was fantastic. And that has really humbled me to be able to do something and give something back. I'm reminded by the powers that be how much we invest. But for me, it's an investment we can't afford to give. So it has made me feel very proud and very humbled to be part of this experience. And also, not to forget that although we focused and honed in on logistics, there are many, many people that leave the forces with such transferable skills on all levels. So if we can just work with those people and spread the word, employers could benefit greatly from using people with transferable skills, they might need help and support, but they've got the right skills and attributes to be a great employees.
Hattie Hlad 20:18
Thanks so much, John, great input. My final question is we've obviously discussed what you and employers are doing. But how could the MOD or the government give greater support you think?
Darren Knight 20:30
So, there's a thing called the Armed Forces Covenant, which is brilliant, and 1000s of companies are signed into that, and the MOD have got an employer recognition scheme, to award those companies that go above and beyond and Pertemps are one of those gold award-winning companies. So we lead the way and speak to other companies. So I think it's just the MOD, do more on that front to assist in this, to spread the good word. And then, you know, something that comes to mind with myself, is that drivers in the military and I'm talking about the professional drivers in the military, I've done all the things that would map across to the Driver CPC. But those individuals haven't got that Driver's CPC qualification on leaving the service, they have to do it. So if we could map across some of the qualifications better, which will help their transition, I think that's maybe an area that they can improve. But generally, you know, just encouraging companies like ourselves to advocate the Armed Forces covenant, and the MOD to help where they can and they are doing that, but we can do more.
Hattie Hlad 21:34
What do you think, John? Is there anything that government maybe could be doing?
John Poliquin 21:39
To be fair, I agree with Darren, I think they've got the core skills, if they want to be in logistics, giving them the CPC, is again that confidence, a lot of service leavers I've spoken to come out and didn't even know there is such a thing as a CPC. And so there's a lot to learn in a short space of time before you hop over their heads and jump into civilian vehicle, and of course, they're then legally bound now legislation. You know, they could be at risk of losing the license or worse, just through lack of education, it doesn't take a lot. So I think CPC would be a great thing to give them added confidence. If there were a way to add to that, I think what we do in the academy, to give service leavers a real taste of on-road civilian driving in a civilian vehicle would be utopia. Because the vehicles that they operate are completely different. And it again goes back to confidence. They're not toys, they're large vehicles, heavy, cumbersome. So just to give them that added flavour, that for me would be great. But I understand the commercials behind that. The government, the MOD, probably can't afford to deal with that. So I think we as employers, need to recognise that and keep working with those service leavers to give them that confidence.
Hattie Hlad 23:05
Do you have any...
Lee Northam 23:06
I would say prior to leaving the army, I think it'd be good to have some soldiers who are driving currently in civilian street to come and speak to the young soldiers who are leaving the Army and tell them the stories and what's good and what's bad about in the industry. I think that's what it is, the experience of soldiers leaving already, and trying to go back and tell the guys about it, because that's what they always hear about, "oh, it's, it's not good to be in", but actually, it's a good lifestyle. It's really good to do it. I really enjoy it.
Hattie Hlad 23:41
I feel that was so interesting and really informative and I'm sure our listeners will too. One huge takeaway from me in this discussion was what you said, Darren, about the public perception of what a military person actually does. You said the assumption is to be on the front line and artillery when in actual fact, there are lots of roles and transferable skills that employers could potentially benefit from. So thank you so much. Thank you John, thank you Darren, and thank you Lee, for coming in today. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Driven By Excellence. We hope you enjoyed listening and if you did, please don't forget to click that follow button, leave us a review, or share this episode with a colleague. For more information and to keep up to date with industry news, head to our website, pdtfleettraining.co.uk