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Ask A Kansan is a podcast where we're amplifying, connecting and uncovering stories across Kansas.
Every week, Gus and Sydney sit down with the people who actually make this state run — museum directors and ranchers, founders and historians, zookeepers and woodcarvers. From Kansas City to Kinsley, WaKeeney to Wichita, we go where the story is.
You'll leave each episode knowing something you didn't about the state we call home. It's not a history lecture and it's not a business show. It's a real conversation with a Kansan worth knowing.
New episodes weekly. askakansan.com
Ep70
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1982 Wichita Time Capsule
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[00:00:00]
Sydney Collins: All right. So as one does, as usual, I found this scrolling through the TikToks, and it's just super funny news then. This is 18- 1982 verse news now.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: And so this is a newscast that went out in Wichita-
Gus Applequist: All right ...
Sydney Collins: in 1982. So here you go
Gus Applequist: So they're just driving down the street?
Sydney Collins: It's dra- you know how you drag Fay in Salina? They drag Douglas
Gus Applequist: Ah. [00:01:00] It's fascinating
Sydney Collins: Isn't it?
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: There's- Hold on. There's, there's a phrase here real quick that I want you to listen to
Gus Applequist: So, okay Hold on
Sydney Collins: [00:02:00] Okay, we can stop it. Sorry, that was just my favorite part of, like, "I drive a Ford Pinto with the AM station stuck on."
Gus Applequist: It does look like a really cool car.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, but that... Yeah, so he had to borrow his friend's car. But I just thought it was super funny.
If you go on, you get the full '80s vibe of, like- the graphics and the, the big thing. It goes on for, like, five minutes.
Gus Applequist: This is like a, a very highly produced piece. Uh, and, and beautifully shot, too. Like, wow.
Sydney Collins: But-
Gus Applequist: Um,
Sydney Collins: yeah ... um, parts that I just think are so funny is people are like, "Oh, there's nothing to do in Wichita," which is so funny 'cause everyone in surrounding areas is like- "Let's go to Wichita. There's so much to do."
Gus Applequist: Yeah, it's, um, it's... These sorts of things are such wonderful time capsules-
Sydney Collins: I love it
Gus Applequist: ... of community. so yeah, that's, that's wonderful. Thanks for bringing
that.
Sydney Collins: And the hair was fabulous.
Yeah.
So anyway, just a little blast from the past.
Gus Applequist: [00:03:00] Welcome to Ask a Kansan ...
Sydney Collins: a podcast where we're amplifying, connecting, and uncovering stories across Kansas. And today, we're also educating it.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, we, this is, uh, this is one of our episodes, I think our second episode, in our education series- Education series, yeah ... uh, leading into the fall of, uh, 2026.
Today we have Cathy Hopkins on from the Kansas Board of Education. She is the chair of the board currently. And she represents District 5, which is sort of like western- Western Kansas, yeah
and northern, Kansas. So it was, it was a joy having her on the podcast. She talked about, uh, her passion for education- ... and, uh, where she'd like to see it go in the next few years.
Sydney Collins: And Gus, I think we need to address the elephant in the room.
Gus Applequist: Uh, yeah, I, if I sound different- ... if you're listening, uh, I'm wearing a mask. [00:04:00] We, we premiered our film, uh, what was it, 10 days ago or so?
Sydney Collins: Something like that.
Gus Applequist: And, like, that went great.
Sydney Collins: Gus shook a lot of hands.
Gus Applequist: But, like, the day after, I just, um, instant- instantly came down with a cold, and so I don't want everyone else to get it, including our lovely guest and, and lovely Sydney here.
So I'm trying to keep my illness to myself. So that's why I'm wearing a mask.
So anyway, without any further ado, here is our conversation with Cathy.
Meet Cathy Hopkins
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Sydney Collins: Hello, hello
Gus Applequist: Welcome.
Sydney Collins: Welcome, welcome
Gus Applequist: Doing well, and you? Doing
great.
Good. Oh, you have visual aids prepared.
Sydney Collins: I love it. Lovely.
Cathy Hopkins: They're, they're kind of more for me than you guys.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Well, that works. That works.
Cathy Hopkins: Me trying to remember things to say all this stuff.
Sydney Collins: You're ... All right. I understand. All right. Once ... We'll let you get situated here. Okay brilliant.
Cathy Hopkins: Okay. Eat the mic, right?
Gus Applequist: Yep. Yep.
Eat the mic.
Sydney Collins: About the, about a fistful away- Yeah ... is kinda what we say.
Gus Applequist: So we always start our interviews about the same way, and that's- Um, could you please [00:05:00] introduce yourself for our audience?
Cathy Hopkins: Absolutely. I am Cathy Hopkins. I'm District 5 of the State Board of Education member, and right now also chair of the board.
Gus Applequist: Lovely.
District 5 Explained
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Sydney Collins: Can you, um... Who's included in District 5?
Cathy Hopkins: It's-
Sydney Collins: I know it's a bit, I know it's a big list ...
Cathy Hopkins: 44 counties. So, Hays is kind of on the eastern edge. Okay. But it does have a tail that, it goes up toward, to, uh, Marysville.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Cathy Hopkins: So it kinda stairsteps its way up that far.
And so then it's the borders pretty much-
Sydney Collins: Okay ...
Cathy Hopkins: all across. , It does pull out Rush County and Ness County.
Sydney Collins: Okay.
Cathy Hopkins: So it's got a little bit of a jag right there, but otherwise, yeah, and then it's to the-
Sydney Collins: Insert graphic.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: I know. That's where I will put- Yeah.
Should have done that.
Gus Applequist: Is it safe to say-
Cathy Hopkins: And it is on the KSDE website, so. Okay.
Gus Applequist: Is it safe to say you have the largest region?
It's a population issue. Okay. So every district out of the 10 is approximately 50,000 students.
Sydney Collins: Oh.
Oh, wow.
Cathy Hopkins: Public school. Okay. Okay. [00:06:00] So that's how that shift goes. So, like, you think about the big first when you think of-
congressional things- Yeah which is 62, 63 counties. Like, it's all that population part.
Sydney Collins: Oh, wow.
Cathy Hopkins: So District 8 is almost primarily Wichita.
Sydney Collins: Right.
Cathy Hopkins: Because they have 45,000 students in that district. So it's, it's... And, and there's a lot of sharing of boundary lines for the districts. You know, it kind of- Yeah
does that. But it- it's, it's an interesting map when you pull it up, for sure. Wow.
Kansas School Sizes
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Gus Applequist: How many... So this is, this is 1st through 12th grade? Or kindergarten,
Cathy Hopkins: or- Uh, well, it's actually pre-K anymore- through 12. And that pre-K, it, it's kind of a shared thing-
Gus Applequist: Okay ...
Cathy Hopkins: In reality we have pieces and parts, but not the fullness. 'Cause you have-
Gus Applequist: And, and how many students are there across the state?
Cathy Hopkins: Just under 500,000. So I think we're in that 480, 480,000 area. Wow. I wanna say somewhere close in that range.
Gus Applequist: That's huge.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, it's a lot more than kind of you think about it as a whole.
Cause I, I live in McPherson. Okay. So our school, um, our school [00:07:00] system's rather small, but it's actually- It's actually-
rather large ...
Cathy Hopkins: it, it is actually for Kansas, yes.
Sydney Collins: Um, for Kansas, 'cause for a population of... Well, I think we're at 14,000 now in McPherson.
Sydney Collins: We are 3A, 4A? Wow.
I'm gonna lick to Tanner on that one. He knows those off the top of his head. 4A.
Cathy Hopkins: Well, and 4A with sports can always... It depends.
Sydney Collins: That, yeah, that fluctuates
quite a bit.
Cathy Hopkins: I
mean, I talk to districts that, that can move back and forth- ... by just a few numbers of students that come and go. So that gets interesting. And different sports can be different. Right. 2A, 3A, and I'm just like, every time I'm here, I'm like, "Gosh, you people." So when I ask somebody the size of their district, they give me the whole athletics part, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm sorry, but that really doesn't help me." That doesn't help. I'm actually looking for numbers on that one. Yeah. So I'm not real sure what McPherson's full numbers are. Yeah, I don't know. But it is a decent-sized district for Kansas. Yeah. Because the median is 500, I wanna say.
And most of our districts [00:08:00] are in that- 400 students? ... uh, that lower...
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, like, you think of Syracuse, it's the whole county. It's our largest geographic-
district. So it's over 900 square miles.
Sydney Collins: Oh, wow.
Cathy Hopkins: And they're... Ooh, if I get that wrong. I wanna say they're just under, right around that 500 mark. Okay. But-
Sydney Collins: Yeah, but a lot of space ...
Cathy Hopkins: a lot of space to do that.
It's rural,
Sydney Collins: yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah. And they're a four-day school. have quite a few of those too. Yeah. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: That's a lot of traveling for those kids, if you think about it.
Gus Applequist: Yep.
Cathy Hopkins: It is.
Sydney Collins: In those rural counties.
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah, there is, there can be- Yeah ... more, yeah. Yeah.
Cathy Kansas Roots
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Sydney Collins: So give us kind of your background. So this is Ask a Kansan.
Were you born here? You raised here?
Cathy Hopkins: I was born and raised in Kansas, Eastern Kansas, a little town of Garnett, but mostly rural and then into town in my teen years, uh, which is about 3,000 people. South of Ottawa. Okay. You know where Ottawa is? Yep. Straight south on 59. That's where Garnett is, so small town.
And dairy farm. My dad was a dairy [00:09:00] farmer. My grandpa was a dairy farmer, so we were at the final years, um, in farming was- ... the grandpa's dairy farm. Some of my best memories, actually.
Gus Applequist: I bet.
Cathy Hopkins: So, and then ended up in Russell. Okay. And then into Hays. I wouldn't move into Hays. It was a huge city to me.
Sydney Collins: Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. That's fair.
Cathy Hopkins: It's huge. When you've come from 3,000- Exactly ... I mean, it took about... I mean, I was in Walker, I was in Russell. I was just like- ... I didn't wanna touch Hays. They all had one-way streets, and it had all this-
just a lot. That's 20,000 people. That's a really big number to me at that time.
So about 20, I finally, I did make it into, into Hays. So mostly raised my kids there.
Sydney Collins: Oh, brilliant.
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Um, how many kids do you have?
Cathy Hopkins: I have six.
Sydney Collins: So you really have gotten to know the education system.
Cathy Hopkins: And I, and I was quite involved Yeah. And it's a lot easier at that elementary age. I mean, it really does get more difficult in that middle school, high school arena because they have so many teachers.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: Sure. And it's, life gets busy, and it, it's definitely more h- [00:10:00] difficult to really be fully engaged, but so important still.
Sydney Collins: What have you learned through- ... even those early years of all your kids, of, of working through the school system and, and just being a parent, have you brought to what you're doing now?
Cathy Hopkins: Oh, just how completely important it is to be aware. and, and I was a lot, then. It, like I said, it really gets harder as your kids grow and life gets busier. It gets harder to be that focused as they get older. But I was really just a part of it.
And I loved, 'cause we were actually in the smallest elementary school that Hays had at the time, which was Washington- which has closed since then.
But we were a family. I mean, all of the teachers knew my kids. They knew their names. They, you know, they operated in a really, just a really g- Just a great capacity. And you still have the struggles in the smaller, right? Yeah. Because if you have an odds with a teacher, you don't have as many choices to move your kids around.
So those things come up.
Sydney Collins: That's the truth.
Cathy Hopkins: You know, that's real. But, [00:11:00] um, you just have that, culture's just different.
And I really like that. So I'm always more about our rural and small districts- because they just carry a different culture, and I think it's a strong one when, when you're talking education.
But the parental engagement is huge.
And, you know, we have board members that are, that is definitely their, their thing, and I love it because they always bring that to the table. No matter what the discussion is, we have to always remember we need our parents engaged, and we need to make sure that the- as much as we can at the state level that we're talking about districts, you have to be open arms. Like, we have to work this together. It has to be a partnership. That's how it works best. It, it really has to be that partnership.
Leaving and Returning Home
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Gus Applequist: I'm excited to dig into the, the board, but before we do, I just, I wanna ask, so you spent a couple years living in Eastern Washington.
Cathy Hopkins: I did.
Gus Applequist: And my question for you about that is, would you please tell us what you learned about Kansas by leaving it?
And what it was like moving back home after being [00:12:00] gone for a few years.
Cathy Hopkins: Okay. It was really hard to leave.
Partially, this was always home. I, I literally have never looked at another state and thought I would wanna move there.
I, I've just always been- ... Kansas-focused. And, I did live in Olathe for nine years. And so I worked for a law firm. So in that, I was an administrative assistant, but I was also a trainer for new administrative assistants 'cause the, the law firm was growing across the country and opening offices. So I did a lot of travel in that time.
And I was in and out of different states and cities, and nothing was ever like, "Oh, I'd wanna be here." I'm like, it just never was. My husband was supposed to temporarily go to Spokane, Washington. they had asked him to kinda go fix some management issues they had. It was supposed to be a temporary, he was coming back- ... all the things. And I was like, "That's fine." But I tell you what, the first time I flew into Spokane, I thought- I knew I was in trouble, for one, 'cause the husband wanted me to move out, and two, there was [00:13:00] something about that. And we actually just came back from visiting friends- and we still just, we love- that area. It's beautiful. But it's not home.
So to me, Kansas is home. My husband was born and raised in California.
Sydney Collins: Oh.
Cathy Hopkins: And was a city boy. So not so much for him, but he's been in Kansas for a very long time, so- he's kinda stuck, and he knows it.
Joining the State Board
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Gus Applequist: So you've spent the last three and a half years on the Kansas Board of Education, and the last stretch as chair, I understand. When you first took the seat, what did you think the job would be like, and how has it- Oh, man ... been like what you thought it would be, and, and how has it been different?
Cathy Hopkins: That's a difficult question. You really do go in with other people having told you things.
And that's real. I was recruited.
I did have people ask me to run. And so we do... I mean, we all know education's had a tough road, right? So there's a lot of things that need to change. [00:14:00] That's just real. But I definitely didn't understand the role at the state level. I'd been sitting in our local meetings, paying attention, really trying to learn. But it is a different view from the state because you're not... This is where I tend to correct people when they say the state school board.
Cause it's not. it's the Board of Education. You're truly, it's a policy-driven arena.
Because your, your oversight is the whole state, not your local district.
So it does have a very different feel in that arena. So honestly, I really don't think I had a clue what I was walking into. But I did wanna be civically engaged, and, and I will say from COVID, that's where that hit me hard. And I didn't even realize how much I loved my country until then.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Cathy Hopkins: And the voices I was listening to kept talking about civic engagement at the local level is where we have to get back involved.
We've lost that- it's to such a great extent. [00:15:00] So that's definitely where my mindset was coming back to Hays. I was just like, "You know, I, I really wanna get involved. I wanna understand more." And, you know, kids are grown, I definitely have more time, and so I was all about getting involved and finding out what was going on, and in the process, ended up on the-
State Board of Education. But part of that process was I did run for the local board.
And I did miss it by five seat- by votes.
Gus Applequist: Oh, wow.
Cathy Hopkins: Oh, wow. So when people try to tell me your vote doesn't count, I'm like, "Oh, but it does."
Sydney Collins: Uh, yeah, it does.
Cathy Hopkins: But it does. Very. I actually had a coworker say, he's like, "So if I'd have told five of my friends..."
I said, "You mean you didn't tell- ... five of your friends?" He said, "No, I really didn't." I was like- Yeah ... I mean, the, especially the local races- it's hard to get people out to vote. So that's huge. So yeah, so then- through all of that, just connections and people I'd met and all the things, somebody asked me if I would... It was that season, so asked me if I'd run, and of course, the answer was absolutely not. I have no idea what that would look like. [00:16:00] But the one word was said to me, "Just pray about it." I'm like, "I don't want to." In my world, the Lord has a way of going, "Yes, let's do that. Let's go." So that's what we did. And- Right
and I did get in the seat. So- You know, as I walked into that, I knew there were a couple of things that I kept hearing. One of them was the accreditation system. The rural districts were really suffering over that. And so I knew I wanted to go in and find out what was going on and how could we could make some changes.
So that really was a focus as, as I was walking in.
So thankfully, that was already a- in play. So I was able to walk through the process of how we rebuilt that. So that was- ... that was fun.
Science of Reading Shift
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Gus Applequist: I wanna come back to that thought in a moment, but first, I understand literacy is a topic you're passionate about.
Cathy Hopkins: It is.
Gus Applequist: Um, and in your pre-interview, you mentioned balanced literacy and structured literacy. I guess as much for me as for our audience, what is literacy, and then what is balanced versus [00:17:00] structured literacy?
Cathy Hopkins: Well, literacy, learning to read, right? Being literate We went through a very long phase of what was actually started as whole language and then moved into balanced literacy. So with the science of reading, that actually Dr. Reid Lyon was a huge part of the move scientifically on how our brains are structured and how we actually learn to read.
But the teaching part of that science took a while.
And so while the science was there, educators really didn't underst- they don't know science, so understanding the implementation of how that's supposed to shift. So you can ta- say it's phonics, but it's more than phonics, but it is getting back to that structure of taking apart a word letter by letter and then the whole... I mean, it's, it... I cannot actually speak to the fullness of structured literacy. I haven't been through the training the teachers are doing. But balanced literacy was really taking the whole language aspect [00:18:00] and infiltrating it with some phonics-
in an attempt to say, "It's really okay. We'll just do this." But it's really not. And our legislature and many legislatures have said, "No more." They've actually passed laws. It will not be taught here. So the structured literacy is taking the science that Dr. Reid Lyon came up with through a lot of years in study and put it into that implementation role of teaching it. So it's structured, as it says, and there's a... I mean, we have heard so much, and, and I've investigated it myself. So with the passion is that Dr.
Watson, the commissioner at the time, would always talk about how our hair needs to be on fire for teaching kids to read. And I can tell you the day when I was like, "Okay, I'm there. The hair is on fire. What do we... Let's get this done." So that's a, a little joke him and I have a lot with, uh, you know, like, are we passionate to know that...
Because without literacy, we have nothing.
Sydney Collins: Right.
Cathy Hopkins: Right? And [00:19:00] we have ignorance, and that's what gets us into slavery-
in reality. An, an illiterate people.
And I loved a history teacher who said to me, and it was his juniors in high school he was teaching, and he had them reading a book, and I do not remember the name, but it was literally a biography of a, a slave who- ... coming through that. And he asked the kids, "Do you know why slave owners did not want their slaves to learn how to read?" 'Cause a literate people become a free people.
They want freedom.
And so they were kept from that ability. So trying to instill in them how important, like as a free nation, we need literate people.
So take it serious. This is, this is about you being able to be all you can be and have freedom in your own life to go whatever direction you wanna go. Because we can have some skills, but we're still here.
But if we keep that, it moves. And [00:20:00] that just- ... I mean, that just struck me hard. Yeah. I'm just like-
Gus Applequist: Definitely
Cathy Hopkins: that is so real. And he said, "I could tell," his really were like, "
Sydney Collins: Ah." Oh, that makes more sense.
Cathy Hopkins: It makes sense. You know, when you can make it real. Like, there's reasons some wouldn't want you to, so do it for you.
This is real. This is your life, but it's also our country. So we'd have that broader sense.
Gus Applequist: My goodness. So within structured literacy, uh, is, is everybody sort of on board with that or is there some resistance to that?
Cathy Hopkins: I think we're really there in a lot of ways. one of the things we did since I've been on the board is we implemented a training requirement. So teachers by July of 2028, in certain capacities, so your elementary teachers, your reading specialist, and there's a couple more, I never have that full list, um, must be trained in structured literacy, and we've got several approved programs to, they can do that through, to ensure [00:21:00] that what's coming into the classroom is fully what the kids need to learn.
And we've had teachers before us that have talked about, "After I got the training, what I can now do," and they're fl- I mean, they're just like, "We didn't know." So we're getting all of that to turn through, yes- you know, so- So we did set up the requirement. So when you say resistance, that's what I think of.
Like, it- it wasn't the sweet spot in my opinion of how to get that to happen. But it's like something has to be put in place. We, we needed a mechanism. And so while I, I didn't believe it was necessarily the right s- way, I w- but I wasn't sure what the right way was. So the vote went that way, and so we fully, we're, we're on board and we've tried to put in as much training as possible. the regents got involved. I don't know if you've heard of the Blueprint for Literacy, so that was part of higher ed.
And so they created courses- in order to help veteran teachers-
who've not been trained in structured literacy. So this is all about getting [00:22:00] the field that's already in play, because that's not what had come through higher ed, because th- we've had that shift. So we have to make sure all of our teachers understand exactly how that works and how to teach the kids properly. A lot of kids will get it. I mean, we've got a percentage of kids that they're just gonna learn to read. Like, it's just inbuilt. And then you've got those with the right instruction, they'll get there. But then you have a good 20%, I think the number is, where they're not necessarily even being dyslexic, but they- Oh ... really need that just more. Yeah. They just need more, but they can learn, and we want them to learn. So by making sure we're getting them all the training they need, e- and then getting that implemented.
So stage two is making sure it's being implemented in, which then aligns with curriculum. So yeah, a lot of pieces that have to come into play to get it all, but we, we bring teachers before us, and we're, we're hearing the stories, and they're powerful, of how they now know what to do, because they were frustrated too.
They weren't sure what to do. So now we're [00:23:00] in, we're seeing it, the light is shining- ... we feel like, and we're seeing more and more, uh, and getting the stories. And like, I love the stories. So I love your guys' mission thing. Like, I love the stories because those are, those are the people- not just the data.
You don't want more than numbers. You wanna see the kids, you wanna hear the stories of like, "These kids, I mean, they're getting it, and they're loving reading, and they're doing these things." So it's powerful. So yes, and I'm a reader. I've, I've always been a reader, so I, I am very passionate about doing all we can to implement the processes so that every child does have that chance.
Board Role and KESA
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Gus Applequist: I wanna zoom out a little bit. Um, we, we sort of glossed by, like, the, the Board of Education itself and- Yeah ... and, and what it is. Yeah. So could you just describe the role of the State Board of Education and how its decisions impact students?
Cathy Hopkins: Okay. I hope so. I hope so. Well, as we said, there's a 10-member board, so we have the state carved up in 10 districts. part of that, it takes four Senate seats, like there's [00:24:00] requirements for each of those. There's has to be four Senate seats within each board seat, and then the 50,000 students, so there's kind of a lot of things at play. So it just, the redistricting for the first time in, I think, a very long time happened- And was in place right as I was coming on the board.
So, what, election of '21, went in in '22.
so all of that just was new in that piece. So, but the state board's role is really, we have... This is where I'm like, like, if I can get all the words right. The high level view of, and it's constitutional, the board is created constitutionally.
And then statutorily, more definition in areas of what is our key roles. Not all of it, but our key roles. So you have the accreditation of schools.
Um, we have high school graduation requirements Teacher licensure.
curriculum standards.
So standards, not what curriculum, but the [00:25:00] standards that we want met within that- Right ... so that we're hopefully teaching across the board on the Kansas level.
Sydney Collins: Are
Cathy Hopkins: those- And so how do we impli- so you asked too, but how do we impact? Well, the standards impact the curriculum, or at least that's the hope, right? 'Cause you have local control, which we always want local control and local boards, but trying to set a standard that they're s- choosing from. And then, of course, your teacher licensure, how that's playing out, high school graduation requirements. They... We just had a shift. I came in on the tail end of that. So they didn't change the numbers, but kind of tweaked what credits within the numbers. And then pretty much every local district has, they add to that.
Sydney Collins: Right.
Cathy Hopkins: So that's your, that's like your code. That's your bare minimum. So all of those play in, and then you're setting a standard across the state is the hope. Right? along... I think the biggest part of that to me or really important, I say biggest, it's all big, but the KESA, which is our [00:26:00] Kansas Education System of Accreditation. So KESA because we have lots of acronyms in education.
Yeah.
so it's how we're saying schools are meeting a standard. So we included with the new part of that, the school improvement model. So we're looking- for improvement, but also the big shift came with it, supporting schools. What can we do as a, the department and as a board to make sure we're helping? Where do you need help? How can we help you? So we're a support system, not a compliance system, not just you're doing it wrong and you're gonna get in trouble. But how can we support you to support students? So supporting teachers, supporting students, getting the outcomes we want to see. So we've seen a big shift in that arena, which I think is gonna be immense.
Gus Applequist: I'm gonna ask a little bit more about school improvement here in a second.
Cell Phone Ban Debate
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Gus Applequist: But before we go there, um, back in March, the governor signed a bill into law that banned cell phones- quote, unquote, "bell to bell." So I have two [00:27:00] questions about this. Number one, what was or what was and is the role of the Board of Education in enforcing that law or helping schools to deal with that issue? Um, and then what are your own sort of beliefs and findings after traveling your district and speaking with teachers, families, and school administrators about cell phones in schools?
Cathy Hopkins: About cell phones. So there's four, what I would say, large districts in my district.
So Hays would be one of them with three- around 3,000 students. Um, Dodge City, Garden City, and Liberal, and Hays is the smallest of the four. So those are the big districts in my district. And the smaller ones, you know, from less than 100 to, you know, 500 and plus. But what I've seen, and I had the conversations with as many as I can get to, is, you know, "What are you doing?
Pre-bill, what are you doing?" 'Cause I am a firm believer they need to be put away.
Hardcore. These are not helpful instruments in a classroom. Now, there can be, I believe, exceptions in a high [00:28:00] school arena- in certain classes, journalism, different things. I mean, we have to admit, the cameras and video capability of a good cellphone, it is what it is, right?
And when you're looking at funds in schools, like-
Sydney Collins: Obviously, yeah ...
Cathy Hopkins: You know, you're gonna use the tools you have.
But other than that, why, right? We all know they're a distraction.
As adults, we struggle. I mean, as adults, we struggle. So that whole piece of put it away.
And what I was seeing for the most part in these last couple of years was backpacks off and put away. And I will never forget one district I went into, and the kids... We actually did a little bit of forum, so the kids were asking- questions like, "Well, so what do you think?" I said, "You're not gonna like me." But they would just put them away in their backpacks. And so if they weren't seen, they weren't heard, all is well. Um, and every place I went, when they did that as a district, as a school [00:29:00] The behaviors-
immediately dropped almost in half just just like that. We, we know they're not a good thing.
And then one of the kind of weird data points that somebody stumbled across was library books started getting checked out on a-
Gus Applequist: Interesting
Cathy Hopkins: larger ba-
Sydney Collins: Yep ...
Cathy Hopkins: right?
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Cathy Hopkins: So the behaviors were huge, but then there was other small things. The kids were talking over lunch again. I mean, I was hearing, like, "They're really loud," but we refused to say anything because the silence was horrible. Right? Because they would sit at lunch and they were just in their phones.
Gus Applequist: I can't even imagine that. I don't think it was like that.
Sydney Collins: I have a sophomore in high school- ... so this is like- Yep. Preach. Yes. Preach.
Cathy Hopkins: Yes. Okay, so have you seen Toy Story 5? Because-
Sydney Collins: I have not yet ...
Cathy Hopkins: you have to go
see
it.
Gus Applequist: Oh,
is that a big plot point?
Sydney Collins: It's, well, that's the whole thing is technology versus-
the old school toys.
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Oh, that's so sad. There's the whole, that's the whole plot-
Gus Applequist: I'm already crying. ...
Sydney Collins: of, like, the, the [00:30:00] LeapFrog, like, tablet versus the old toys.
Gus Applequist: Oh, wow.
Sydney Collins: So I haven't seen it yet.
Cathy Hopkins: Oh, you have to.
Sydney Collins: We need to take the kids. Yep. We just haven't had time, but, um-
Gus Applequist: You have to go see that.
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah I w- I was definitely there. I had no children with me. I was definitely there. Yeah. And this, and the, the theater was full, so I was glad to see the families. Wow. And I'm like, "Please pay attention." Yeah. Because it's real.
It is very real, and we do know it makes a difference. And the science is real, and the studies are real. We have to pull that back. So- So
does the board... I'm sorry, Sam, go ahead. That's okay.
Sydney Collins: Well, this is more of a tangent than a question. Because that gets me to tablets- and Chromebooks.
Cathy Hopkins: Yes, ma'am.
Sydney Collins: Because, Camilla, my oldest, she's had a, either a tablet or a Chromebook- since middle school.
And as much as I understand there are tools and there are technology that our kids need, I am a firm believer to not use them until high school.
Gus Applequist: Hmm.
Sydney Collins: Because [00:31:00] her, handwriting is rough. Yes. Her writing skills are rough, and that's just all throughout schools. Yes. And so schools are understanding, like, " Oh, we need to bring paper and books back."
They are
Cathy Hopkins: understanding, and it is coming.
Sydney Collins: And they're, and it is changing. Yeah ... and so it's just one of those things that's like- there's a whole generation of kids that are struggling-
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah ...
Sydney Collins: because they were put in front of a tablet in, you know, fifth, sixth grade. And that's all they know.
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: So,
Cathy Hopkins: sorry. And, and honestly, most of them are one-to-one- Yeah ... from kindergarten.
Sydney Collins: Yep.
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah. So we are seeing a huge shift in that. And we are, as a board, that's exactly what we're focused on right now.
Screens Task Force and Local Control
---
Cathy Hopkins: So with the cell phones, we did, and again, this was I th- I'm gonna say toward the end of my first year on the board, a bl- what they called the Blue Ribbon Task Force over screens.
Primarily the phones, but it also leaked into rest of it. So there were, I mean, there were a lot of people on it. They had over 30 people on it. They were meeting, I'm gonna say if not weekly, every two weeks over Zoom.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Cathy Hopkins: And it [00:32:00] was ... We had legislators, we had teachers, we had parents, we had students.
We had just a lot in, in that. A couple of board members then were part of that to hear it, but it was also, you can actually still go back on YouTube and find it and, and watch it. So the whole gamut of the conversation, and we... And they came up with recommendations through a report that we received. the state board really is very much about local control, so what we did was we put out the report. Was it enough? Maybe not. In hindsight, probably not. The hope was they would take the information, and they would really start looking at what do we need to do, and a lot did But a lot didn't. And, you know, when you took the districts, and again, I was finding district after district that they were, they were really trying, and it's hard.
But it's hard for a short time.
Because one of the things overwhelmingly that I heard, same story every place I went was, "First couple weeks [00:33:00] with the kids is rough."
But they get past it pretty quick."
But the parents, 'cause we're in a second generation.
Sydney Collins: Yep.
Cathy Hopkins: Some of the parents are like, "But I need to get my kid that, you know, every minute of every day," and like-
but you don't, you know? And it's just too much of a distraction in the midst of their learning.
So, but they would get through that, and everybody would be like, "Oh." And they would say, you know, "Kids are leaving it in their car. They're doing this." Like, like, you know?
So a lot of that was happening. But again, I think that was more of our smaller districts, really a little easier maybe to implement- when you're smaller. Larger districts definitely struggling. and I think just have a little different mindset. I don't have those in my arena, so I've been- ... one-on-one with them.
But, I was not a fan of the law.
As a board, we weren't a fan of the law. Um, as the chair, and I can say this in hindsight and people can decide whether they believe me or not, but I was waiting for the legislature 'cause I knew they were coming out with [00:34:00] this. So we weren't doing anything, waiting to see if that was gonna go somewhere, but I was very ready to.
Because it had helped, but I didn't think it had gone, none of us did, far enough.
But we weren't gonna compete with the legislature. Like, if that's what you're doing, we're gonna have to step back and see what happens, and that is what they passed. And I'm- I don't love it.
When we talk legislation, one of the big things, too, to remember, if you don't know, is every state is structured differently. We are one of maybe 11 states that have an elected board of education.
Most are appointed. And some of them that are elected, then their commissioner's appointed. So you've got a lot of different structures out there. And if I remember correctly, 'cause I was in Texas for a national, uh, state boards of education meeting, Tex- in Texas, so their Texas board, while it's elected, their, I don't know if they call 'em a superintendent or commissioner, everybody uses a little different terminology, is appointed, and their board role is very [00:35:00] different than ours.
So it's a very... I mean, it's just all very different. So us, in the structure we're in, we're elected, plus we a- we hire our commissioner, so that's fully under our purview. That's... There's very few states that are exactly like that. So legislation is more needed, really, in other states because they don't have an elected level in between. We would've liked to have been able to. And were we too slow? I mean, we all have said it. We wish we'd have done something a little pushier.
But we do believe in local control, so there's that constant push. 'Cause we want- all levels of government, that closest to the people representation is important.
That's who our country is. So, but-
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: here it is.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Well, it's
Cathy Hopkins: gonna be- Our role- ...
Gus Applequist: an interesting fall, isn't it?
Cathy Hopkins: It is going to be, ' cause that just came into play. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So this school year.
Law Enforcement and Certification
---
Cathy Hopkins: So part of that bill says that every district has to certify to the state board that they have a policy that meets the law.
Gus Applequist: [00:36:00] Okay.
Cathy Hopkins: Now, certifying, we're not reading every-
Sydney Collins: Handbook.
Cathy Hopkins: We're not reading 'em all. That's not our role. It is them saying to us, "We have done the work." The Kansas Association of School Boards is primarily what local boards use- ... to help them with the policies that come through legislation. That's really not our role, but they fill that role with them and try to help them.
They have attorneys that help them. Some of them have their own attorneys as well. They'll try to craft a policy that meets the law and gets everything done that needs to be done. So I'm pretty sure this is one of those that we're gonna probably see some tweaking happen in future.
Because kind of learning all the things of how this- Yeah
really impacts. And there's a social media piece in there and some different things. So we'll see how it all plays out, but there might be some tweaking that they'll do this sess- coming session.
[00:37:00]
Four Improvement Fundamentals
---
Gus Applequist: So you spoke earlier about school improvement. I read that there, there's kind of four fundamentals of academic- school improvement. Um, how do, what are those, and how do they, how do they work?
Cathy Hopkins: Hence my cheat sheet.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Yes. I love it. Very good.
Sydney Collins: So-
Cathy Hopkins: But, well that just seems- This is literally very pretty on top of it I love it. Love the color But it's the framework is what it's called. So it's the framework of our school improvement piece of accreditation. So the four fundamentals, because I can, I always lose one.
Sydney Collins: It's a lot of information to remember.
Cathy Hopkins: It's just, it's a lot. So structured literacy right at the top.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Cathy Hopkins: Um, standards alignment. So are we getting our curriculum and are we [00:38:00] using our curriculum and making sure we're meeting standards? Balanced assessments. So not just your end of the year assessment that we're all kind of used to hearing about, but are we assessing all the way through? So hopefully helping districts again, like what are the key ways that you can ensure you know what your students are doing- as you're teaching. So that's one of the key things we're really looking at, and it's been one of the big struggles with the year-end thing because- you're done with the year. That information really doesn't do you any good for what you just did. So we're looking at different things in that realm as well.
Quality Instruction vs Tech
---
Cathy Hopkins: And the other one's quality instruction, which is one that we are really capitalizing on, like we are making a big deal out of it. That's also where I go after the technology. And I think w- this is my hope, me, Cathy, okay? With our talks on technology and the use of technology in the classroom, if we put that under the umbrella of quality instruction and quality materials, does it meet the standard?
I think a lot of [00:39:00] times it doesn't. So, and I've heard literally educators say, "We're really pulling back.
We're going, 'Okay, but why are we using it?'"
What are we using it for? How are we using it?
Handwriting and Cursive Return
---
Cathy Hopkins: Is this the right thing?" And handwriting is coming back r- big time into play.
And, you know, we can ask all the whys we are here, but we're here and let's move forward and change things. Kindergarten teachers before us that were like, "We started realizing we were seeing gains, but then we got stagnant," and we were like, "What's going on?" And they ditched the iPads 1,000 per- like, they don't touch them.
Sydney Collins: Yep.
Cathy Hopkins: The handwriting, very much back in play. So we're definitely seeing it, and it's a huge part of reading. That's very real. Learning to read and write goes together.
Sydney Collins: It's comprehension. It's proving it, yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: And it's a, it's literally a brain structure.
Oh, yeah. It's a path in the brain. So when you get into the whole science of it and we start getting that, not that I can regurgitate it well. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: I don't think anybody can.
Cathy Hopkins: But it's real.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: And the cursive handwriting- because it's very [00:40:00] artistic in reality. And so you think of the arts, and we know that the fine arts are good for our brains, and we know that kids do better. It, it just all comes into play, so.
Sydney Collins: So are we saying cursive is coming back?
Cathy Hopkins: Yes.
Sydney Collins: Yes.
Cathy Hopkins: Yes. It is in... No, it's in the standards, and it's in the higher ed standards. And- Sweet ... because that was one of the things I actually went looking for as something was being presented to us. I did that word search, and I'm like, "Oh." So I brought it out in the meeting. I'm like, "I saw that that was in there." And they're like, and so we had a greater discussion about the cursive handwriting, and it, yeah, it's real 'cause it has to happen. I'll just,
Sydney Collins: I'll never forget, like when we were in elementary school, Gus and I are the same age, and I don't know if it was the same for your school, but I will never forget learning it.
They're like, "Yep, when you get to middle school, that's all you're gonna write in is cursive." Got to middle school, d- never used it. But they... And then, and then we started doing more computer lab stuff. "Yep, when you get to high school, this is all you're gonna do." And then we got to high school, never used it. And then we would learn something else in high school, like, "Yep, all your college professors are gonna want this." Never used it. I was like, [00:41:00] "We're changing so much."
Cathy Hopkins: Yes.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Sydney Collins: But I am glad cursive is coming back.
Gus Applequist: There, there is a lot of change between our kindergarten year and our-
Sydney Collins: It was so much ...
Gus Applequist: college experience.
Cathy Hopkins: Yes. So.
Collaboration and Action Plans
---
Cathy Hopkins: And, and, and I really love hearing you say that, in that what we're hearing more and more and what this model is bringing out is collaboration-
Sydney Collins: Yeah
Cathy Hopkins: across grade bands, within a s- building, I mean, and the district. And so we've even had a lot of that come to us in presentations to the board. Santa Fe Trail, and I'll just call them out because they were amazing, came before us and they gave us their whole picture district-wide in their literacy and the things they were doing, the interventions, like all the stuff. And it was huge. But it's all about people talking to each other, giving those teachers the time to work together and the up, the grade below, the grade above, like, what are we doing? So that it makes- more sense all the way through, so it's building truly from one to the next. Because there's been too much of just the silos.
[00:42:00] We see that all across our society. Like, it's not just education. Yeah. I like to try to remind people, like, let's remember.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. This is not just a one-
Cathy Hopkins: Yes, we're talking education-
Sydney Collins: ... one time thing, yeah
Cathy Hopkins: ... but this is across the board.
And, and nationally, this is what we've seen. So this is the piece that we're really trying to make that impact and see the greater possibilities.
And like I said, the stories have been immense. So in the school improvement model, we're also bringing, and when we talk collaboration, once a year, three to five districts of like size have to come together. They have to talk about their plan because all of this includes an action plan for their school year.
And what are they doing to make that happen? They choose one of the fundamentals-
and they have a focus. But it's amazing what that focus and how it ripples.
So I was at a school improvement day, and a district got up, and they were talking about their action plan was based around one standard. And I'm just sitting there going, "Are [00:43:00] you kidding
me?"
Like, I was like, I- I was in the back, and I'm just, like, internally going, "Oh my goodness." I was blown away because it was all about cognitive engagement of students, and they got every one of their teachers trained, and then they created an observation tool so they could walk into the classroom and see if the teachers were utilizing the training they had received. Were they getting in kids It's a whole different way of teaching that truly engages every kid in the classroom.
So every teacher was impacted, every classroom was impacted, and they were seeing amazing things. And I'm like, "Okay, I've been schooled here," right? You can focus on one standard, and it literally touched everything in the district. So that's what we're looking for. What can we focus on and do really, really well? And then you see all the ripple effects. That's kind of been where I've come to on the time on the board, like, what are the big things? And they talk about it in this. I [00:44:00] love our deputy commissioners and our directors. They have just poured themselves into this at KSDE, and it's been a beautiful thing. Plus, it's very pretty.
Sydney Collins: It is very pretty.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, that's a-
Cathy Hopkins: I actually told a district at that same day, I was like, " I don't know. Those look like they could be framed and put on a wall and- just send me a picture." They laminated it and...
Community Involvement Examples
---
Gus Applequist: you have said, and I'm paraphrasing, uh, during our pre-interview process, you said that, public education can only truly thrive when families, teachers, students- whole communities get in- get more involved. Practically, what does that involvement look like? And what's one thing a listener can do to get involved?
Cathy Hopkins: Okay, I'm gonna... Because as you were repeating my words to me- I was thinking about the Farm to Plate initiative.
Sydney Collins: Oh, yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: And when the stories that I hear... And I loved it when I... 'Cause I got the later story, too. We had a couple of districts come in, and we were highlighting the Farm to [00:45:00] Plate, which is, we have a whole, you know, nutrition, child wellness part. Um, it's federal because that's where the money comes from, so it's paid federally. But we have a whole, staff position and, uh, group and team. Thank you. We have the team i- within KSDE. So, the whole push to... So a lot of schools have been able to get... I mean, we have a lot of rural schools-
right? But the farmers and ranchers around them, whether they're selling them beef or donating the beef, either way-
I mean, one district, the superintendent told me, she goes, "I mean, we had to go buy, like, four or five freezers, but it was so worth it." Yeah. So the kids are getting the fresh beef straight from Kansas.
And those people, I guarantee you, care a lot more about what's going on in that school when they know they've had a part to play. So one of the districts that talked about the different things, I mean, including the kids doing gardening, literally within the school, growing some of their own lettuce that then comes to them on their lunch plates.
You know, so, [00:46:00] and they had a whole... And I missed it. They had a big deal, and the kids were showing, showcasing. And one kid was like, "You see this? This is good." And I think it was kale, if I remember right, and he said, "Because I grew it."
Sydney Collins: Oh. Good for him.
Cathy Hopkins: It matters. Right? It matters. Yeah. Otherwise, it's this weird green thing, and I want no part of it. But he grew it, so mine's the best.
But then we hear of all way... You know, even up to, I believe, chicken eggs, like, just that whole piece- Yeah ... of community. And so... And I think it was Morris County when they were sharing about that, and I talked to the superintendent later, and he goes, "Oh, we took that from the board meeting 'cause we're live-streamed and recorded."
And they clipped their piece, and then they put it out on social media. And he said, "I'm getting phone calls left and right. 'I didn't know you were doing that. I'm in. Look, what do you need?'" Like-
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: That's community.
Sydney Collins: Wow.
Cathy Hopkins: And that's a huge part of what diff- like, when you care about... And then I've had the superintendents who tell me they have people in their community that'll make a phone call, and they'll say, "What's the balance of your lunches?"
Oh,
Sydney Collins: yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: Not [00:47:00] any- You see that happen all the time ... not any kid, the school. The school.
And they will pay that off- to help what's going on. Helps the school, helps the families- the whole piece, because they can and because they care. Those are the kind of things that when we have people who are investing themselves- Even if they don't have kids that go there, 'cause I kind of got the feel some of them were just like-
they were just people who could, and they knew that was a thing, so they helped.
Or when a district won state basketball, and I think it was a 1A, and as soon as they won the game, the superintendent's telling me, like you said, I had phone call after phone call, "What do you need?" 'Cause they knew this was outside the budget.
But they wanted the band to be able to go. They wanted the, you know. Yeah. So they were like, "What do you think you need?" And, and he said, "I didn't even have to ask." The communities cared. So in all the pieces, but when parents get involved educationally, and that's also a part of so much of this and with assessments, trying to find those ways, like having real conversations that help parents truly [00:48:00] understand, where's my kid at in that subject and what can I do to help? And I know they do a lot more, and they've done it for years, student-led conferences- trying to pull the parents in. And I'm gonna point to one of the pieces that I brought with me, uh, Board Member Dennis Hershberger, because it's our 250th. He... And we have a president from this day, right, our 34th president, um, Dwight D.
Eisenhower. So he was talking to some people in Abilene, and he got ahold of a couple of letters that President Eisenhower wrote when he was president of Columbia University-
Sydney Collins: Oh ...
Cathy Hopkins: in 1948, somewhere in that, which one of them is dated 'cause it was put in Reader's Digest. And they're open letters to parents and to students, so two separate letters.
Sydney Collins: Huh.
Cathy Hopkins: But he, he just talked about, parents, you have to be involved. It's about your kids. It's about your... And I love this, and I was telling my friend on the way here is, like, you're the plant in the soil, and the soil is your country. Like, you gotta know what you're planted in and what- good you can do to make things [00:49:00] better. And I think I got myself completely off topic.
Sydney Collins: No, you're fine.
Cathy Hopkins: So I, okay. Am I good?
Sydney Collins: No, I'm glued.
Cathy Hopkins: 'Cause I'm like, I'm pointing to that letter, and I'm thinking, what was it? W- I'm not sure if I keyed in perfectly, but just the power of that- It's so important that we have our history.
And it's so important that we're willing to learn. Um, and I just ... You read those letters and you're like, "Is he talking about today- or 80 years ago?" Like, it's, it's astounding.
Parents as First Teachers
---
Sydney Collins: That's a tangent that I get on quite a bit, um, with some of my teacher friends, is how I might ruffle some feathers here. Parents are the first teachers, and I feel like a lot of people forget that.
Cathy Hopkins: Yeah.
And-
Including parents ...
Sydney Collins: including parents. Yeah. especially parents, because parents, I feel like, have such a high expectation of teachers, of like, "You have to teach my kid everything they need to know."
Cathy Hopkins: That's in those letters.
Sydney Collins: And it just-
Cathy Hopkins: And he points to
that to the parents Yeah ... he's like- ...
Sydney Collins: Floors me.
Gus Applequist: Huh.
Cathy Hopkins: Which tells me it's an ongoing- It's an ongoing thing ... like, it's a societal ongoing issue [00:50:00] that we- Yeah ... he said, "You Uh, uh, and I can leave these with you, 'cause I can print off another copy," but it's powerful. He's like, "Parents, your child is the center of your universe, and then you send them to school, and then all of a sudden it doesn't matter- Yeah
what's happening over here." Like, that matters, and you're needed 'cause you're part of it.
And the studies are out there. Parents engaged, the students always do better.
It's just a general reality of life. Kids know you care. You're fully engaged, and no, you don't understand it all. Some of it's being taught very differently than you were taught, but you can still be a part. That's also where the one-to-one devices are a negative. I think it's made it more difficult, and so we've checked out in some ways because of it. But hopefully No, I believe we're on the right stretch- and we have the traction. Is there much work to do? Always. Always. But I'm seeing a lot of good, and we're trying to focus in on those things that can change and move those needles, and [00:51:00] see kids do better, see teachers happier, get an overall better sense of, let's tell good stories- and let's build up and not tear down.
Gus Applequist: Well, thank you so much- ... for taking time to, to come here- Thank you ... and, and be on Ask a Kansan today. This was a joy.
Cathy Hopkins: It was a-
Sydney Collins: Appreciate it
Cathy Hopkins: ... true privilege. And I tell you, when yous guys sent the email, I was like, "Okay." But you make it
so easy.
So
thank you.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, we try.
Gus Applequist: Yes. Yeah.
Cathy Hopkins: Thank you. It was wonderful.
Gus Applequist: Thanks for being here.
Sydney Collins: Thank you so much.
Host Reflection on Education
---
Gus Applequist: Well, we hope you enjoyed [00:52:00] that conversation with Cathy
Sydney Collins: I tend to get super passionate about education just 'cause I have kids. Yeah. And so I see kind of all the sides from it.
Gus Applequist: Uh-huh.
Sydney Collins: So I feel like Cathy gave me a v- a better overview of kind of what really the educational system is. 'Cause, like, I know from a district standpoint, I understand how that works.
I understand, you know, from classrooms to teachers. But as, like, my youngest starts kindergarten this year... Granted, I do have two older kids, um, but they go to Smoky Valley. I'm not super involved in their education. I'm roughly involved. But, it's just a different perspective I have now. Yeah. I'm learning a lot through this education series.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Well, and it's, it's easy to forget just how massive our school system- ... is in this state. Yeah. And what did she say, 450,000 students? It's a lot. And that's not even counting college students. Yeah. That's just the, the under 12, or whatever, under, under 18.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, K through 12.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, so it's like, um, it's wild.
And, and when you think- Yeah ... about the difficulty [00:53:00] in managing, you know, something that, that some of these, these schools have less than 100 students, and then you have, like, Wichita and Kansas City areas where- Yeah ... there's thousands of students in these- districts. So, yeah, it's, it's... I can only imagine the, the inherent challenges in trying to do a good job of balancing everything that they have to balance.
Sydney Collins: Very much so.
Gus Applequist: So, yeah.
Kansas History School Gossip
---
Sydney Collins: So we're doing a Kansas history. We haven't done one of these in a while. Um, and America t- it's kind of America 250 part two, since we kinda-
Gus Applequist: Okay. Great ... '
Sydney Collins: cause I wanted to see kind of what education was, through history-
of Kansas, but with a Sydney spin on it. So my search results through newspapers.com were school gossip.
Gus Applequist: High school gossip got published in the newspaper?
Sydney Collins: It did.
Gus Applequist: This is like a terrible idea.
Sydney Collins: And it's more popular than you think it is.
Gus Applequist: Oh, no.
Sydney Collins: So this is from the Altman Gazette, uh, February 15th, 1895. Phew. High school gossip. And then some of this stuff [00:54:00] makes zero sense. And I kinda cut out the best parts, 'cause it's actually a quite lengthy column-
Gus Applequist: Wow ...
Sydney Collins: if you think. So Jacob Drenner was in Osage on Tuesday last. Period. That's it.
Gus Applequist: Wait, is that Osage or Oswego?
Sydney Collins: Oh, Os- oh, it might be Oswego.
Gus Applequist: I- is that how you say that?
I d- I'm so sorry, people of Oswego.
Sydney Collins: I, I
think it's an S. A-S-W-
E-G-O, right?
E-G-O.
Oswego?
Oswego?
Gus Applequist: Oh, no. We've discovered- Okay ... another
one of these things.
Sydney Collins: Oh, no.
Gus Applequist: Oswego. Oswego. Okay. Hello, people of Oswego. We love you.
Sydney Collins: If it's still a town. all right. Uh, Mr. S.F. McClellan has taken the contract of carrying the psychology charts from one building to the other for Miss Moon, the teacher of that branch.
Gus Applequist: How is this newsworthy?
Sydney Collins: I don't know, and that's the only context. Zero other context.
Okay.
[00:55:00] So here's another one. Last Friday morn', Professor, uh, Henny Haney, uh, gave h- I wish we could read newspapers- Yeah ... the way we could. gave his-
Gus Applequist: Consent ...
Sydney Collins: consent for the pupil to go to- Pupils
Gus Applequist: to go to the Zion Hill that night
Sydney Collins: that night. There were only 45 lads and lassies- ... who took advantage of the opportunity. Ye Rider being one of the happiest of the crowd until the l- ladies, uh, were obliged to file out and march through the snowdrifts
Gus Applequist: Okay, so the author of this column
Sydney Collins: Went with them ...
Gus Applequist: went with them, and went out and was happy in the crowd until the l- the women followed them out into the snow drifts.
Sydney Collins: I think.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, this is wild. I-
Sydney Collins: It is wild. It gets better.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Wow.
1939 Classes and Film Reels
---
Sydney Collins: All right, so this is from the Hutchinson News, September 7th, 1939. We get a little bit more [00:56:00] context with this one.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: Ruth, uh, McCurry, who will teach wives and mothers as well as youthful college students in two subjects of highly practical home value, home living and applied nutrition at the junior college, um, has been a member of the Sherman Junior High faculty for s- for several seasons. she will continue to teach home economics at Sherman during the afternoon. Her morning classes at the college are at 8:00 and 10:00. Um, home living is a course which, analyzes, is that what that is? Yep. Um, care of the house, social needs, judging of furniture and clothing. Applied nutrition is a study of food needs, food values, and meal planning. Dean CM Lockman urges women of the community to investigate these... I'm gonna assume that's classes. It's kinda cut off there. Yeah. But anyway, so I thought this ar- it's very of the times, 1939.
Gus Applequist: Oh, yeah.
Sydney Collins: But the thing that stood [00:57:00] out to me the most was the judging of furniture and clothing.
Gus Applequist: Oh, I didn't even think of th- yeah, that is-
Sydney Collins: I don't...
Like, is that just, like, what's good furniture- I th- ... versus what's bad furniture?
Gus Applequist: Yeah, I g- and, and clothing, too.
Sydney Collins: Like-
Gus Applequist: Fascinating.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Next one, completely different context. Same, uh, same time, same newspaper. A series of health and sports films ha- have been arranged, for boys and girls of the health and education departments at Sherman Junior High. The first film showing will be September 25th. They are Fire Safety and Modern Football Fundamentals." "On October 30th," "The Flicker program will include Nervous System and Sports Parade of 1937."
Gus Applequist: I mean this in all sincerity, if anyone out there has access to these films- Oh I must see them.
Sydney Collins: So what I think- [00:58:00] So what I think the Sports Parade of 1937 is, is the ol- the parade after the Olympics.
Gus Applequist: Oh, it was, 'cause-
Sydney Collins: Because the Olympics, I think, I could be very wrong, but I'm pretty sure 1936 was the Olympics in Germany. The only reason I remember this is because McPherson had the very first Olympic basketball team, and they won gold in 1936. So I think-
Gus Applequist: So they were probably in that parade.
Sydney Collins: They were in the, I think. It's pretty- I was... I, I could be wrong. But, yeah, the parade- Yeah ... of 1937.
Gus Applequist: Can you imagine what modern football looked like in 1939? Uh, yeah.
Sydney Collins: It's good, good stuff.
Gus Applequist: Like, "Look at this new leather helmet we've got."
Sydney Collins: Modern Football Fundamentals.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Sydney Collins: All right, this one's from-
Gus Applequist: Oh, more gossip.
Sydney Collins: I know, more gossip. This is... I was so s- like, it populated like crazy. I just put school and gossip. What?
1900 Gossip Column Highlights
---
Sydney Collins: Um, the Yates Center News, December 14th, 1900. And this is literally [00:59:00] columned High School Gossip. The Christmas program is well underway."
Gus Applequist: Wait, this, this was written in the midst of the Christmas program?
Sydney Collins: Apparently. December 14th, like, we're, we're, we're underway. "The Christmas program is well underway. The professor said we should tell all our friends to visit us when we have it, so take due notice and consider yourself invited."
Gus Applequist: Ah, okay. I'm getting it.
Sydney Collins: Yep. Blanche
Gus Applequist: C- Camack ...
Sydney Collins: Camack, C-A-M-A-C, um, has a new waist. We wonder if she expects us to think that the buttons are solid gold.
Gus Applequist: Uh, does this mean, like, a new dress, or-
Sydney Collins: I'm assuming.
Gus Applequist: Okay. All right.
Sydney Collins: Okay. Ask the A- Rhetoric class. Oh, ask the A Rhetoric class if the dash is used as much as formerly. None of these make any sense-
Gus Applequist: No ...
Sydney Collins: other than the [01:00:00] Christmas program.
Gus Applequist: They don't.
Sydney Collins: All right. Professor Patterson doesn't think that the geometry class studies. If we were the te- if we were the teacher, we would give him a sample of the kind of lessons that he assigns us, and he would think study then for a fact I don't know what-
Gus Applequist: Yeah. M- I'm not sure Professor Patterson must have been given some hard homework.
Sydney Collins: Maybe.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Wow.
Sydney Collins: Yep. The program Friday lasted, half past 4:00. We sincerely hope the next one will be shorter.
Oh.
I don't know what the last-
Gus Applequist: Shots
fired ...
Sydney Collins: last program was last Friday. Ask Maggie Sharpe about, quote, "Dear Mr. Jones," unquote. This is all one article. That's what I, I- Yeah ... want people to understand.
This is just back to back to back different, like, little things under high school gossip. This isn't just [01:01:00] randomly us putting stuff together. This is literally how it is written.
Gus Applequist: Like, your options back then were passing notes or publishing- ... them in the paper.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
And I think we even get that at, uh, at some point.
Frances Winter and Marsha Kelly have been arranging, arranging the volumes-
In the bookcase ...
in the bookcases. Okay. We are requested not to disturb the nice order. It is for our pleasure and profit as usual. So we have to just look at the books. We can't take the books out while they're organizing.
Gus Applequist: Like, like bravo Frances and Marsha for doing your job.
Sydney Collins: Good job, Frances and Marsha. All right. and this is continued, by the way. Okay. Oh, all right. Professor Pattis- Patterson is trying to discover the way by which some of the pupils that are ignant, ignorant of arithmetic ever were promoted from the fourth grade. He wants to take out a patent on it and quit school teaching. So you housewives who are tired of agents had [01:02:00] better be on the watch for another.
Gus Applequist: Oh, wow.
Sydney Collins: I have no idea what any of this means.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: Other than I think Mr. Patterson wants to quit.
Gus Applequist: I think, I think what he's saying, yeah, he's, he's threatening to quit, and he's, I'm assuming by agents he's talking, like, door-to-door salesmen-
Sydney Collins: Oh, that makes sense
Gus Applequist: that are coming to these homes and trying to sell housewives on things. Okay. Yeah. The, the level of, yeah, like, traditional gender stereotypes and things in these are- Yep ... staggering.
Sydney Collins: Yep. Um- The next- But everybody look at Fred Wal- Walter's new shoes, period. That's the whole sentence. That's, uh- Everybody look at Fred Walter's new shoes.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Can you imagine if you opened up, you know, the Salina Journal tomorrow morning and, and saw that- ... that your new shoes made it on the front page of the paper? Like, just wild.
Sydney Collins: All right, uh, we're getting close. Uh, if you want to be, quote, little angels without wings, unquote, just take a few lessons in deportment from, from the eighth grade
Gus Applequist: As ye [01:03:00] would that others do unto you s- do you even so unto them. I know, I know what that means. I'm familiar with the scripture.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: But I'm not, I, that phrasing of it-
Sydney Collins: Yeah
Gus Applequist: is totally new.
Sydney Collins: Anyway.
Gus Applequist: That like, in all, in all honesty, like y- y- if you have never either visited the archives of your local library-
Sydney Collins: Oh my gosh. Do it ...
Gus Applequist: or if, if you have, uh, the ability to, to borrow or get a subscription to newspapers.com- it will, it will be a never-ending source of incredible things for you.
Sydney Collins: Oh, yeah.
Gus Applequist: We've, we've very much enjoyed diving back into this period. Very much. I've been, I've been work- oh, there's more.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, there's one more.
Gus Applequist: Okay, okay. Sorry.
Sydney Collins: Sorry.
Gus Applequist: I'll get out of the way. My
Sydney Collins: bad. No, you're good.
1920 Basketball and Saturday School
---
Sydney Collins: Oh, this is sports-related. Okay. Um, "The Misses Sarah, uh, Kaser and Evelyn Timkin, uh, visited school Saturday afternoon." Sweet. "School was held on Saturday the 10th to make up, time lost during the Thanksgiving [01:04:00] vacation." Can you imagine school today being like, "Hey, guys, we lost too much time over Thanksgiving. We're gonna have to school on Fri- we're gonna have to school on Saturday." On Saturday.
Gus Applequist: Wow.
Sydney Collins: Can you imagine doing that today?
This is 1920.
Gus Applequist: The people would revolt.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, January 15th, 1920. Also notice that basketball's two words here. "The basket ball game on Saturday night resulted in two victories for La Cross. The girls' score being La Cross 0, Bison 4." That doesn't make any sense.
Oh, no.
I think those are resulted in two victories for La Cross, La Cross score being z-
Gus Applequist: Wow
Sydney Collins: I think that was probably mixed up.
Gus Applequist: A basketball score of
0 to 4?
Sydney Collins: The, yeah, the girls' score being- Oh ... 0 Bison. But you have to remember, these are not traditional courts. In 1920- It
would've been a- ...
they were like outdoor clay kind of, like it was a passing game. It wasn't a bouncing game in 1920. Like basketball was so different.
Gus Applequist: I know [01:05:00] nothing about basketball.
Sydney Collins: The only, again-
Gus Applequist: So I'm operating completely on trust here.
Sydney Collins: Again, the only reason I know this is because McPherson- Oh, right ... 1936, like I know all the- Yeah ... the, I know the lore of, of that game. And so since this was 1920-
Gus Applequist: Well, but the boys scored 37 to 21, so-
Sydney Collins: The boys, the boys scored, uh, La Cross 37, Bison 21.
So, oh, I bet La Cross is supposed to be 10. So I bet there's supposed to be a one in front of that zero.
Gus Applequist: Oh, 'cause there was two victories. Yep.
Sydney Collins: Yeah, there's two victories.
Gus Applequist: Here we are over 100, 106 years later- finding, you know, editorial comment.
Sydney Collins: So I bet La Cross was 10 and Bison was 4. That makes more sense.
And then the boys won 37 to 21, which still is a low-scoring game.
Gus Applequist: But like it,
Sydney Collins: but basketball was very different then. Anyway, sorry. Uh, the boys basketball team, uh, expects to go to R- Rozal, uh, for a tryout next Friday
Gus Applequist: I've heard of Rozal.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Hope it goes [01:06:00] well for them.
Sydney Collins: Hope, hope they do. The High School Athletic Association, seem to have their schedule of games well filled.
Okay, that's great. A meeting of teachers of the county will be held at the high school building January 17th.
Gus Applequist: Miss Elma
Grass.
Sydney Collins: Elma Grass taught last week while Mrs. Warnock was visiting her mother. Um-
Gus Applequist: Who was very ill ...
Sydney Collins: Who was very ill. Yep.
Best Bits and Wrap-Up
---
Sydney Collins: All right, last one.
Gus Applequist: Oh, this, oh, this. You've saved-
Sydney Collins: These are good.
Yeah. I saved the best for last. At least I tried to. If anyone knows of a remedy for sprained toes, please notify Viola Yost, the physics-
Gus Applequist: Again, just-
Sydney Collins: And that's it. That's it ...
Gus Applequist: just take some mint and rub it on your toe, and your toe-
Sydney Collins: The
remedy for sprained toes. You, they need to notify Viola. Period.
That's it. Yeah. Then we go into, the physics class is vainly searching for a way to the acceleration of motion. [01:07:00]
Gus Applequist: Breaking some new ground there, Copernicus.
Sydney Collins: We're breaking new ground.
Gus Applequist: Sorry, that's a
Brian Regan reference.
It's a Brian Regan reference.
Oh. Good comedian.
Sydney Collins: The yellow one is the sun.
Gus Applequist: That,
that's right.
Sydney Collins: All right. The seniors were given a shot gun quiz by the history teacher, Miss Van Osdol. Okay. Uh, when looking over the papers, it was discovered that two of the girls have changed their names to Ray and Bill
Again- This is the high school gossip ...
Gus Applequist: La Crosse Republican, I wanna, I need to speak with your reporter. And, and learn why this, this was so important to you. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Well, anyway, there's your look back into- Yeah ... school gossip.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, I, I'd love to know what sort of, you know, accident befell Viola Yost. And and what made Professor [01:08:00] Patterson, was it?
Sydney Collins: Patterson.
Gus Applequist: Such a-
Sydney Collins: Wanna quit his job.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Man. Yeah, there's all these characters in history. Yeah. It's, it's, it's quite fun.
Sydney Collins: It feels like a really bad, like, comedy.
Gus Applequist: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Sydney Collins: Where it is.
Gus Applequist: It's, yeah-
Sydney Collins: All these different characters ...
Gus Applequist: I mean, this does kind of read like Parks and Recreation- It does ... the TV show. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Very much so.
Gus Applequist: Well, you've done it. You've made it to the end of another episode of Ask a Kansan.
Make sure to check us out online at AskaKansan.com. Sign up for the Curious Kansas newsletter. Check out the merch page. Uh, we will also be traveling quite a bit. So make sure to check out our socials to see where we will be at.
The single best way you can support the podcast is by telling somebody about it. If there's an episode that you know somebody that might be... For instance, maybe you know a teacher in your life. Uh, this, this may be the episode for them. Uh, we'd, we'd love to connect with a new audience, uh, every week. So, so thank you.
Sydney Collins: Yep, and we'll see you next time.
Gus Applequist: Have a great day.
[01:09:00]